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[Voltgloss]

Unofficial vote count:

nkirbit (2): shraeye, Voltgloss
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (1): Jorbles
Robz888 (2): ashersky, Eevee
ashersky (4): Robz888, yuma, nkirbit, mail-mi  [L-3]
Jorbles (1): UmbrageOfSnow

Not Voting (1): liopoil

[Voltgloss]

Robz, yuma, nkirbit, mail-mi:  Assuming ash is scum like you suspect, what do you think he is trying to achieve by deliberately avoiding the thread?

[yuma]

Robz, yuma, nkirbit, mail-mi:  Assuming ash is scum like you suspect, what do you think he is trying to achieve by deliberately avoiding the thread?

making us think that "no way would scum ash be that crazy" and establishing that as his eccentric meta.

I assume he knows that it won't work on me, so I dont' think he is trying to convince me, but from all appearances it is working on a lot of other players. I think if this was anyone but ash, there would be 1-2 more votes on him at this point.

[nkirbit]

Yes, I expect him to come back at some point with the, "Cmon guys!  I wouldn't be that obvious as scum!" argument.  And you know, he could be correct, but I think there's a larger chance that he's scum than anyone else in the game, so I'm happy to vote there.

I still have the same bad feeling I had about his plan initially, and no one else has jumped out at me as a good lynch.

[liopoil]

ash is playing towards his wincon. why he thinks not posting helps town, I have no idea, but he probably has a reason. I could see not posting playing towards scum!ash's wincon though. So yes, it is scummy.

[Voltgloss]

I agree, liopoil.  I can see crazy!town!ash avoiding the thread with the same likelihood of crazy!scum!ash avoiding the thread.  I can think of at least one goal ash may be trying to achieve with this gambit, assuming it is a gambit and assuming he is town.  So at this point, that behavior of ash's is a nulltell for me. 

What concerns me more about ash is the VT claim.  I think Robz made a good point that scum have a strong incentive to claim VT in this setup, to avoid being shot by opposing scum.  So I can see why scum!ash would do that.  What I'm not seeing is why town!ash would do that.

ash:  You always play to win, regardless of your team and regardless of the orthodoxy of your chosen methods.  With that in mind, here is my question:  How does your early VT claim help town win?

nkirbit:  By when do you expect to have your reads posted on non-ash players?

shraeye:  By when do you expect to have your reads posted?

UoS:  By when do you expect to have your reads posted?

[nkirbit]

Whenever I get around to them.  I have a fairly lengthy assignment due tomorrow afternoon, so all re-reads are postponed until then. 

[yuma]

I agree, liopoil.  I can see crazy!town!ash avoiding the thread with the same likelihood of crazy!scum!ash avoiding the thread.  I can think of at least one goal ash may be trying to achieve with this gambit, assuming it is a gambit and assuming he is town.  So at this point, that behavior of ash's is a nulltell for me. 

Keep in mind--and this is something that I haven't pushed enough, but should have--that I, at least, am not voting ash because he hasn't posted. It has encouraged me to continue to vote for him. But it isn't the reason. I was voting for him before because I believed many of his posts were written with the intent to mimic his persona. I can reference the post for you if you would like that I compiled them, but really just reread him for yourself. He has many suggestions, ideas and reactions that from my perspective--and this is coming from someone who has been scum partners with him--that I believe are forced and unauthentic. That is why I am voting for him. I think the not posting is just taking that concept to another level so I continue my vote.

[Voltaire]

Vote: ash

Also, I would like to request a prod on ash.

Nobody else wants to lynch mail-mi with me?

[yuma]

Vote: ash

Also, I would like to request a prod on ash.

Nobody else wants to lynch mail-mi with me?

what has he done that separates him from scummy town mail-mi. I haven't seen anything.

[mail-mi]

Vote: ash

Also, I would like to request a prod on ash.

Nobody else wants to lynch mail-mi with me?

what has he done that separates him from scummy town mail-mi. I haven't seen anything.

And what does that quote of me have anything to do with it?

[nkirbit]

Because it looks like your reason for voting Ash is that he's been lurking, not because you've stated any issues with his play.  It's an easy way to sheep onto a wagon should you be scum.

That being said, I still don't think mail-mi's scum here.

[Voltaire]

what has he done that separates him from scummy town mail-mi. I haven't seen anything.

The over-the-top nature of it. It's scummy town mail-mi x 1000. That's why I think it's a gambit by scum!mail-mi. Take mail-mi in B2B. He was scummy there, but in an afterthought way to me - like, a bunch of people did scummy stuff, and then if you thought about it, mail-mi had been scummy in the background. He's been scummy in the foreground here, and he just (self-censoring obvious reference to ongoing game, I think everyone gets what I'm saying), so I think he changes it up.

It's not a slam dunk but I feel good about it.

[Voltaire]

And what does that quote of me have anything to do with it?

Nothing, it was your most recent post. Thinking you voting for ash fits my reads nicely, deciding if I'm worried about that.

[yuma]

what has he done that separates him from scummy town mail-mi. I haven't seen anything.

The over-the-top nature of it. It's scummy town mail-mi x 1000. That's why I think it's a gambit by scum!mail-mi. Take mail-mi in B2B. He was scummy there, but in an afterthought way to me - like, a bunch of people did scummy stuff, and then if you thought about it, mail-mi had been scummy in the background. He's been scummy in the foreground here, and he just (self-censoring obvious reference to ongoing game, I think everyone gets what I'm saying), so I think he changes it up.

It's not a slam dunk but I feel good about it.

Ok. Well I guess to further answer your question I am not willing to vote him because it does feel like he has been in the background, à la B2B. I don't think he has been in the forefront. Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

[Voltaire]

Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

He also sheeped your case on me hardcore, fwiw. If you're town and mail-mi's scum, it fits a "play obvious" strategy nicely.

But I'm getting the feeling you and I are at another agree-to-disagree juncture.

[Voltgloss]

Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

He also sheeped your case on me hardcore, fwiw. If you're town and mail-mi's scum, it fits a "play obvious" strategy nicely.

mail-mi also moved Jorbles from "won't lynch" to "could lynch" immediately after yuma - whom he'd sheeped before - posted a case on Jorbles.  mail-mi claims now that he simply put Jorbles in the wrong category in his initial post.

[mail-mi]

Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

He also sheeped your case on me hardcore, fwiw. If you're town and mail-mi's scum, it fits a "play obvious" strategy nicely.

mail-mi also moved Jorbles from "won't lynch" to "could lynch" immediately after yuma - whom he'd sheeped before - posted a case on Jorbles.  mail-mi claims now that he simply put Jorbles in the wrong category in his initial post.

Which I did.

[yuma]

Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

He also sheeped your case on me hardcore, fwiw. If you're town and mail-mi's scum, it fits a "play obvious" strategy nicely.

But I'm getting the feeling you and I are at another agree-to-disagree juncture.

Really the only times I have thought about him were when you and voltgloss have specifically asked about him... and a bit when Robz reacted to his meme.

He also sheeped your case on me hardcore, fwiw. If you're town and mail-mi's scum, it fits a "play obvious" strategy nicely.

mail-mi also moved Jorbles from "won't lynch" to "could lynch" immediately after yuma - whom he'd sheeped before - posted a case on Jorbles.  mail-mi claims now that he simply put Jorbles in the wrong category in his initial post.

But how are these things any different than what we expect to see from scummy town mail-mi: hard core sheeping, changing reads... that is mail-mi. I don't see any difference.

[Voltaire]

But how are these things any different than what we expect to see from scummy town mail-mi: hard core sheeping, changing reads... that is mail-mi. I don't see any difference.

But I'm getting the feeling you and I are at another agree-to-disagree juncture.

[Robz888]

I've mulled things over, and I still advocate an ash lynch. He claimed VT, which was bad, and he has decided to avoid the thread, which is bad. These are anti-town things. At some point, you just have to say, anti-town = scum. I know that ash is serious about this game and likes to win--I therefore have to think he is doing this, banking on someone bringing out the "scum!ash would never do this, it would clearly get him killed, and he wouldn't let down his team" argument. In fact, I almost started making that argument. But no, have to say focused and not overlook the anti-town behavior.

I also very much think UoS should full claim.

[Voltaire]

At some point, you just have to say, anti-town = scum. I know that ash is serious about this game and likes to win--I therefore have to think he is doing this, banking on someone bringing out the "scum!ash would never do this, it would clearly get him killed, and he wouldn't let down his team" argument. In fact, I almost started making that argument. But no, have to say focused and not overlook the anti-town behavior.

The one thing I will say is that since ash's absence overlapped with my own V/LA, I didn't realize until others pointed it out that it was so long.

[liopoil]

in regard to mail-mi:

I feel like we lynch him every single game. actually, I do think he gets lynched much more often than not. because of that, I feel like when we lynch him correctly, it's not so much that we read him correctly, it's more that we got lucky that he rolled scum . And so I have a really hard time reading mail-mi at all.

ash not posting is bad for town if he is town, and also bad for town if he's scum and we don't lynch him. I think perhaps we should all agree to lynch ashersky if he does not post. regardless of his alignment, getting lynched hurts his wincon, so I think that will get him to post. Unless he isn't even reading the thread, which I doubt. if he isn't reading the thread, prod him!

[liopoil]

Query:  should UoS reveal his role? 

if he's the vigilante, yes. so I think he should claim vig/not vig.

liopoil:  say UoS is the Roleblocker.  Why do you think it would be better for the Town if he claims "not vig" instead of claiming "roleblocker?" 

hmmm. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of "claiming is a bad idea unless he's the vig", but he already claimed... so meh. okay, fullclaiming makes sense to me. I doubt he is scum, but if he is, making him fullclaim will catch him, while hardly helping scum at all if he's town. also, it prevents fakeclaims if he is NKed.

one thing I wasn't totally aware of: if we lynch scum, we find out the alignments of the players they have killed. so that makes scum fakeclaim slightly less viable, because they could get caught when we lynch their buddy.

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.4

nkirbit (2): shraeye, Voltgloss
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (1): Jorbles
Robz888 (2): ashersky, Eevee
ashersky (4): Robz888, yuma, nkirbit, mail-mi 
Jorbles (1): UmbrageOfSnow

Not Voting (1): liopoil

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The day will end on August 17th at 9:00 PM Forum Time.

Prod Sent.