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[Voltaire]

Woah woah woah, I just posted and I have now lost it...quite sad I actually explained my reads...hmm

Hour and a half an nothing more than this?  Are you going to just never explain them now because your computer glitched or whatever you're saying here?

I'm surely not giving his reads any weight at this point.

Um...what?  Why?  Just because he suspects you?

Reads with no explanation = virtually useless. I do not see what is so crazy about that statement!

[UmbrageOfSnow]

This post is written with the intent of maximizing the information I can wring out of the fact that multiple players have voted for a townie (me). If you question that fact (reasonable!), this may not carry much weight.

As of when I started this post/re-read/research, the wagon on me was as follows:
(4): Robz, shraeye, chairs, mcmcsalot

The following player(s) have voted for me but are not currently on me:
(1): TwistedArcher

The following player(s) have expressed willingness to vote/lynch me:
(2): ashersky (many times), raerae (thinks I made a post that is the definition of scummy and will vote for either lio or me, but has since backed off)

Dude, you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding that and either way I don't like it.  I felt that you described Jimmmmm's action as being the definition of scummy, not that you were scummy.  Summary:  You said Jimmmmm was scummy, I didn't say you were scummy.

Remember how I jumped in there and annoyed you a bit (sorry again).  It's because I also read that as you saying Volt was the definition of scummy for that post.

I don't think it's Volt misrepresenting you, I think it's the post not as clearly saying what you meant as you might think it does.  I've got a slight town read on both of you.

[raerae]

Dude, you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding that and either way I don't like it.  I felt that you described Jimmmmm's action as being the definition of scummy, not that you were scummy.  Summary:  You said Jimmmmm was scummy, I didn't say you were scummy.

Am I? Walk me through this. What I don't understand is why you would point it out. You're simply saying that I pointed out a scummy behavior by Jimmm, you posted to say you think the behavior is the definition of scummy, and that's that? So, in essence, you were agreeing with me that Jimmm's action was scummy?

This would explain why you have backed off me of late.

It does look like a great day for a stroll *offers arm*, shall we?  I was rereading and didn't understand what I thought to be hedgey view on Jimmmmm so I questioned you on it.  You answered my question, UoS was very kind to parrot that answer, both of you said you (Volt) had already answered that question and all but told me to let it die, I got frustrated, and killed that reread.  I was never "on" you either so that makes it really hard to back off.  I had a gut read on you, I get them from time to time, but that's the extent of any persecution you've received from me.  The more you post, the more I feel like you're slinging mud, misrepresenting posts, and trying to get somebody, anybody but yourself lynched.  Maybe I will resume that reread.

[chairs]

Snow: Sorry, I got home and Civ5 happened.  I've been mildly active elsewhere, but deep rereads just don't look like they're going to happen for me unless I happen to have nothing going on tomorrow (and I'm pretty sure my family has something planned).

So this means that you will never even attempt to explain your unexplained vote on Voltaire?  I may believe the real life excuse, but using it to avoid talking about your suspicious vote at all (which you STILL haven't even discussed) is pretty suspicious in itself.

You could try to explain things without doing a complete reread you know.

Without a reread I can only tell you that he's given me that feeling.  It's kind of like when I voted Robz in B2B - I couldn't really explain it.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

liopoil has been totally forgotten lately.

Note also that I underlined the fact that Liopoil has never voted for anyone in this game.  I'm not forgetting him either.  And I'm finding it a bit scummy but I don't think it's enough to lynch him on right now, (and the wagon that started on him the first time felt scummy to me, so that gives me a slight town read on him, which leaves me with too much uncertainty to feel comfortable voting him absent other evidence.)

[Eevee]

liopoil has been totally forgotten lately.

Note also that I underlined the fact that Liopoil has never voted for anyone in this game.  I'm not forgetting him either.  And I'm finding it a bit scummy but I don't think it's enough to lynch him on right now, (and the wagon that started on him the first time felt scummy to me, so that gives me a slight town read on him, which leaves me with too much uncertainty to feel comfortable voting him absent other evidence.)

And this is exactly how I feel about lio too, to complete my read list from earlier.

[raerae]

Woah woah woah, I just posted and I have now lost it...quite sad I actually explained my reads...hmm

Hour and a half an nothing more than this?  Are you going to just never explain them now because your computer glitched or whatever you're saying here?

I'm surely not giving his reads any weight at this point.

Um...what?  Why?  Just because he suspects you?

Reads with no explanation = virtually useless. I do not see what is so crazy about that statement!

Maybe we're on slightly different pages.  You see, mcmc had said he was posting explanations for his reads but they disappeared into Never Never Land.  I assumed he was coming back with them and you were saying you wouldn't give those any weight.  I see that is probably not the case but as the original quote above referenced the explanations instead of the reads, I assumed that was what you were talking about.

[Voltaire]

I was never "on" you either so that makes it really hard to back off.  I had a gut read on you, I get them from time to time, but that's the extent of any persecution you've received from me.  The more you post, the more I feel like you're slinging mud, misrepresenting posts, and trying to get somebody, anybody but yourself lynched.  Maybe I will resume that reread.

As I stated in my wagonreads post, you did have a post stating you would likely vote for either myself or lio. Obviously, you're no longer operating under that and that's cool.

I will say this, I absolutely would prefer to get somebody other than myself lynched (because I am town). I would expect/hope that for any town member who has a wagon D1. If it gets inevitable that I'm going down I'll give my final reads and make a graceful exit, but it's better for town if we lynch scum D1 and so I will try to do that until the bitter end.

[Voltaire]

liopoil has been totally forgotten lately.

Note also that I underlined the fact that Liopoil has never voted for anyone in this game.  I'm not forgetting him either.  And I'm finding it a bit scummy but I don't think it's enough to lynch him on right now, (and the wagon that started on him the first time felt scummy to me, so that gives me a slight town read on him, which leaves me with too much uncertainty to feel comfortable voting him absent other evidence.)

He didn't vote on D1 B2B as scum (nor D2 but the only wagon was himself). Does anyone with experience about townLio know if he does that too?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Okay, Voltaires latest moves me to "firmly against lynching Volt" camp (it's pretty lonely in here).

Vote: chairs is probably in order, I doubt we can get ash today and stuff is starting to add up for him.

I'm in your camp, Eevee.  Let's make s'mores!

I've been looking at these interactions again today, and there is no way I'm going to vote Voltaire today without some serious new evidence.

Vote: chairs
I'm still willing to vote Robz or Mcmcsalot (and really these are the only 3 I think I'd be comfortable voting absent deadline concerns), but chairs declaration that it won't be possible for him to ever explain his vote feels cheap, on top of the vote itself seeming scummy, moreso in that it is the vote that really helped the wagon seem viable.

(Also, I'm trying my votes out on all three of my candidates to see if that gets anyone thinking about these three.)

The Voltaire case seems extremely flimsy for being the wagon with the most votes.

[raerae]

OK, I'm blowing off the Volt reread, I was annoyed 32 seconds ago when I said was going to do that.  I feel more strongly about chairs, less strongly about mcmc, still think Eevee needs to get in here and help, and have lingering bad feelings about volt and lio but nothing I can really grasp right now.

Here is my original reread of chairs, I was drunk and a bit tired when I posted but I think the logic is more or less sound (nobody responded to it but chairs originally so I assume the rest of you feel roughly the same way).  In addition to the below, chairs has been great about popping in when his name is mentioned but hasn't really been around for much more than that.  If the Eevee lynch is off the table, I will vote chairs.  I'm going to hunt down a vote count before I do something stupid and hammer or put him at L-1 or something absurd like that though.

[Voltaire]

OK, I'm blowing off the Volt reread, I was annoyed 32 seconds ago when I said was going to do that.  I feel more strongly about chairs, less strongly about mcmc, still think Eevee needs to get in here and help, and have lingering bad feelings about volt and lio but nothing I can really grasp right now.

Here is my original reread of chairs, I was drunk and a bit tired when I posted but I think the logic is more or less sound (nobody responded to it but chairs originally so I assume the rest of you feel roughly the same way).  In addition to the below, chairs has been great about popping in when his name is mentioned but hasn't really been around for much more than that.  If the Eevee lynch is off the table, I will vote chairs.  I'm going to hunt down a vote count before I do something stupid and hammer or put him at L-1 or something absurd like that though.

You would be the 5th vote on chairs I believe.

[shraeye]

The Voltaire case seems extremely flimsy for being the wagon with the most votes.

It's a great day1 case.  People need to stop getting so uptight about day1 cases not being full of 10+ solid, irrefutable points.  IT'S DAY1!!

Please explain to me how the chairs case is much less flimsy than Volt's.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Yeah, chairs has 4 on him right now.

Raerae, I read your post back when you posted it, and disagreed with much of you reasoning, but came to similar conclusions anyway, although I didn't find him as scummy earlier, more suspiciously neutral, but I've been finding him scummier from his posts in these past few days and how he's been casting his votes in ways that strike me as designed to manipulate town with no reasoning that can possibly be picked apart or discussed.

Much of this is probably because I have a bit of trouble seeing voting Ash and talking theory as scummy for some reason 

But seriously, he was basically sheeping through a lot of the earlier stuff, and then kept pushing it in a way that, I think you're right, could very well be scum attempting a mislynch.

I think there were plenty of good reasons to suspect and vote Ash, but at that time chairs wasn't pushing any of these reasons, just sort of voting and agreeing.

[Eevee]

uhm, because volt is actually one of the townier players around?

[raerae]

Yeah, chairs has 4 on him right now.

Raerae, I read your post back when you posted it, and disagreed with much of you reasoning, but came to similar conclusions anyway, although I didn't find him as scummy earlier, more suspiciously neutral, but I've been finding him scummier from his posts in these past few days and how he's been casting his votes in ways that strike me as designed to manipulate town with no reasoning that can possibly be picked apart or discussed.

Much of this is probably because I have a bit of trouble seeing voting Ash and talking theory as scummy for some reason 

But seriously, he was basically sheeping through a lot of the earlier stuff, and then kept pushing it in a way that, I think you're right, could very well be scum attempting a mislynch.

I think there were plenty of good reasons to suspect and vote Ash, but at that time chairs wasn't pushing any of these reasons, just sort of voting and agreeing.

Did you respond and I missed it or did you just silently disagree in your head and expect my ESP to reach that far?

[shraeye]

uhm, because volt is actually one of the townier players around?

I believe strongly that you are incorrect.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

The Voltaire case seems extremely flimsy for being the wagon with the most votes.

It's a great day1 case.  People need to stop getting so uptight about day1 cases not being full of 10+ solid, irrefutable points.  IT'S DAY1!!

Please explain to me how the chairs case is much less flimsy than Volt's.

I'll try to work up a big  detailed post on both of these later (unless that will just annoy everyone) but basically that the Volt case is that he premptively defended himself, TA (reasonably) called him out on this, and then a bunch of people piled on without giving any more thought or reasons.  The fact that I've at various times asked questions and posted that I found Robz scummy for his Volt vote, found Mcmcsalot scummy for his Volt vote, and found chairs scummy for his Volt vote should pretty much explain it I think.  Most of the votes on him seem so poorly reasoned as to be scummy. (Aside from TA, who did a brief vote for pressure and is not part of the current wagon.)

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Did you respond and I missed it or did you just silently disagree in your head and expect my ESP to reach that far?

No, I silently disagreed, because, as I said, I came to a similar conclusion and it seems silly to argue with you for coming to the same conclusion via different logic when there are so many people I actually disagree with.

[raerae]

Vote: chairs

[shraeye]

Please do complete this writeup of both cases.  Also, please include my  points on Voltaire, you seem to be missing those parts of his scumminess.  I am NOT voting for him over the pre-emptive defense, and I want to see how people deal with my reasons.

Also, this post of yours only serves to discredit the Volt wagon.  Please explain as well how the chairs case is stronger than the volt case.  The scumminess of the votes is one angle, but I would really like you to look at the 'strength of the evidence' angle (divorced from the people who agreed with it).  That is the angle that your first post took, saying that the case on Volt was flimsy...not that the votes on Volt were suspicious.

[shraeye]

(so far, nobody has bothered to quote any of my reasons on Volt it seems; they just ignore me entirely, dismiss me as 'feeling off', or dismiss me as 'being unclear')

[Eevee]

Shraeye, to be fair, you didn't answer me when I asked a recap of the Voltaire case either.

It's funny, I feel pretty much all my townreads are on chairs now and all the scummy people are voting for Voltaire. Rarely have I felt this strongly about one candidate over another at the end of day 1.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 1.14

As Miss Scarlett went down the stairs the three other guests again began searching the bedrooms of the mansion.

As Professor Plum went into the darkest bedroom he searched for a light switch. He couldn't find one. "I can't find a light switch!" he shouted.

"Neither can I!" came a response. He thought it was from The Cop, but this old mansion muffled voices.

Resigned to the darkness, Professor Plum began to stumble through the bedroom. Suddenly something was at his feet causing him to stumble to the floor. His pipe and matches fell out of his pocket. "Ah! I forgot I had matches," he said.

Professor Plum struck a match lighting up the room. At his feet was a candlestick. On the candlestick there was blood. Next to the bloody candlestick there was a pool of blood. Next to the pool of blood was a body. The name of the body was.... yuma.

ashersky (1): TA
Voltaire (4): Robz, shraeye, chairs, mcmcsalot
chairs (5): nkirbit, Voltaire, Eevee, Snow, raerae
mcmcsalot: (1) ashersky

Not voting: (2) liopoil, Jimmmm

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 ends July 22nd at 10:30 a.m. forum time.

[mail-mi]

Sorry, that should be 1.14