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Author Topic: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Mafia Wins  (Read 188033 times)

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ashersky

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #675 on: July 19, 2013, 10:22:25 am »

Volt is in the would lynch category for me.
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #676 on: July 19, 2013, 10:29:09 am »

Well this game took a weird turn! Mcmc looks scummy as all get-out for jumping off and on me, ash has started playing weird again, Eevee is back (yay! Eevee is fun to play with!), and everything is nuts now.

It means something that a decent amount of town appears willing to lynch the same players I am. I am going to try to spend today figuring out what excatly that means.

Eevee, why do you say mcmc would be "too easy" when he only has two votes?
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shraeye

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #677 on: July 19, 2013, 10:38:43 am »

I don't know what this means, and I don't like what I think it means.  I like where my attention is focused.
You're not used to town sarcastically admitting to being scum when a horrible case is made on them?

Well first, you haven't even debated my case, you just fiated it as 'horrible'.  Second, sarcastic is shraeye.  I do not remember sarcastic Voltaire ever.  I remember calm, cool, very analyzing, debate logically with yuma even though yuma is a scumread (in B2B mafia) Voltaire...and he was town.

Seriously, Vote: Voltaire
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shraeye

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #678 on: July 19, 2013, 10:40:10 am »

To be clear in that last post, the person who is town (unclear pronoun at the end) was the calm cool Voltaire that I described.  The person who this game's Voltaire isn't.
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Eevee

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #679 on: July 19, 2013, 10:41:31 am »

Oh, I wasn't referring to the wagon, I was referring to the "case". The scummy "mistakes" we've "caught" him making are sort of obvious - I would sort of expect scum mcmc to realize playing like that makes getting lynched day 1 a real threat. Now, maybe he just is so busy he can't help it (I think being busy points more towards scum mcmc than the other way around), but still, generally it's quite easy to avoid day 1 suspicion as mafia here - just need to put in the effort.

I hadn't realized I was such a scum read for ash, so I was about to call chairs out on (possibly) lining up his mislynches. Alas, it seems in this game people call me scummy for not realizing they are town (this is essentially extortion - "find me towny or I'll try to get you lynched"), which is an argument I really don't like - especially because I AM town and am genuinely pointing out my thoughts, so both mcmc or ash are either dead wrong or manipulating scum.
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #680 on: July 19, 2013, 10:42:01 am »

I don't know what this means, and I don't like what I think it means.  I like where my attention is focused.
You're not used to town sarcastically admitting to being scum when a horrible case is made on them?

Well first, you haven't even debated my case, you just fiated it as 'horrible'.  Second, sarcastic is shraeye.  I do not remember sarcastic Voltaire ever.  I remember calm, cool, very analyzing, debate logically with yuma even though yuma is a scumread (in B2B mafia) Voltaire...and he was town.

Seriously, Vote: Voltaire
I've played in, like, one game this year. I got frustrated this game. I am not perfect. The TownVoltaire you know is the guy who took a deep breath and said "I should take my own advice and play like I want others to play..." after getting worked up etc.

Nobody lynch me until I can do re-reads on my wagon. I'm assuming there has to be scum there. I don't think I've played so horribly I have a town-only wagon D1.
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ashersky

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #681 on: July 19, 2013, 10:43:32 am »

Oh, I wasn't referring to the wagon, I was referring to the "case". The scummy "mistakes" we've "caught" him making are sort of obvious - I would sort of expect scum mcmc to realize playing like that makes getting lynched day 1 a real threat. Now, maybe he just is so busy he can't help it (I think being busy points more towards scum mcmc than the other way around), but still, generally it's quite easy to avoid day 1 suspicion as mafia here - just need to put in the effort.

I hadn't realized I was such a scum read for ash, so I was about to call chairs out on (possibly) lining up his mislynches. Alas, it seems in this game people call me scummy for not realizing they are town (this is essentially extortion - "find me towny or I'll try to get you lynched"), which is an argument I really don't like - especially because I AM town and am genuinely pointing out my thoughts, so both mcmc or ash are either dead wrong or manipulating scum.

My list was in backwards order, so you are third, if that helps.
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Eevee

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #682 on: July 19, 2013, 10:45:01 am »

Is my vision clouded because Voltaire is going out of his way to be especially nice to me? I still still just don't see the case on him, he seems as logical and pleasant as ever to me. Shraeye, being the main wagon two days before actual hard deadline is stressful for anyone, regardless of alignment, Could that explain the difference in tone you are sensing? Could you summarize the points against Voltaire?
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #683 on: July 19, 2013, 11:02:49 am »

Eevee, TA, and mcmc are my top scum reads.

What changed? This wasn't very long ago:

Want to lynch: mcmc, Robz, TA, Volt
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #684 on: July 19, 2013, 11:10:50 am »

Snow: Sorry, I got home and Civ5 happened.  I've been mildly active elsewhere, but deep rereads just don't look like they're going to happen for me unless I happen to have nothing going on tomorrow (and I'm pretty sure my family has something planned).

So this means that you will never even attempt to explain your unexplained vote on Voltaire?  I may believe the real life excuse, but using it to avoid talking about your suspicious vote at all (which you STILL haven't even discussed) is pretty suspicious in itself.

You could try to explain things without doing a complete reread you know.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #685 on: July 19, 2013, 11:12:00 am »

New thought I will not lynch ash today.

Ash being scum would most likely mean volt or eevee are scum because his gambit would benefit them the most. Volt it would spare for the lynching block and eevee would get towncred.

So if I find ash scummy I still want my vote in volt, if I did ash towny I don't want to vote him. So no reason to lynch ash.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #686 on: July 19, 2013, 11:13:16 am »

Is revoting in bold for a wagon you're already on something that is done to drive a wagon?

Because Volt's wagon is at the same place it was last night, but skimming the page, I got it into my head that he must be at L-1 or something.

The revoting seems suspicious to me. (Shraeye and mcmcsalot.)
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Eevee

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #687 on: July 19, 2013, 11:15:19 am »

New thought I will not lynch ash today.

Ash being scum would most likely mean volt or eevee are scum because his gambit would benefit them the most. Volt it would spare for the lynching block and eevee would get towncred.

So if I find ash scummy I still want my vote in volt, if I did ash towny I don't want to vote him. So no reason to lynch ash.
Thats a pretty gigantic leap. Ash started the crazy business long before Voltaire had any suspicion on him, and both Snow and TA have been at least as vocal as I've been about ash.
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raerae

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #688 on: July 19, 2013, 11:16:32 am »

Ok, I'm fabulously frustrated, my rereads are getting me a solid nowhere, I don't have strong reads anywhere other than Ash which is probably wrong because, well, why wouldn't it be?  I suppose I'd vote for chairs at this point since he is the only other one I have any sort of feelings on but I'd prefer to keep people in the game who are contributing a smidge more than others.

Vote: Eevee


I get the lurker lynch thing, but this is a vote based solely on that.  You don't have a stronger scum read?

As I said, chairs is the other one I would vote for, after reading the exchanges that happened after going to bed last night, I would add mcmc to that list for not producing details for his reads list.  I've totally used the "Oh no!  I lost this big giant post I was going to post listing everything ever!" excuse as scum (on another site, don't go trying to dig it up in Bankers, you won't find it). 
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raerae

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #689 on: July 19, 2013, 11:17:06 am »

Woah woah woah, I just posted and I have now lost it...quite sad I actually explained my reads...hmm

Hour and a half an nothing more than this?  Are you going to just never explain them now because your computer glitched or whatever you're saying here?
I'm surely not giving his reads any weight at this point.

Um...what?  Why?  Just because he suspects you?
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raerae

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #690 on: July 19, 2013, 11:19:16 am »

Is revoting in bold for a wagon you're already on something that is done to drive a wagon?

Because Volt's wagon is at the same place it was last night, but skimming the page, I got it into my head that he must be at L-1 or something.

The revoting seems suspicious to me. (Shraeye and mcmcsalot.)

I've most awesome seen revoting done (and done it myself) as emphasis when it feels people are moving away from your preferred lynch and you're confident you've hit scum.  I personally don't think it says anything re: alignment.
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raerae

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #691 on: July 19, 2013, 11:19:56 am »

Is revoting in bold for a wagon you're already on something that is done to drive a wagon?

Because Volt's wagon is at the same place it was last night, but skimming the page, I got it into my head that he must be at L-1 or something.

The revoting seems suspicious to me. (Shraeye and mcmcsalot.)

I've most awesome often seen revoting done (and done it myself) as emphasis when it feels people are moving away from your preferred lynch and you're confident you've hit scum.  I personally don't think it says anything re: alignment.

Fixed that bit of mistyping.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #692 on: July 19, 2013, 11:22:16 am »

So yes, but no more often for scum or town.  Fair enough.

I guess I was mostly weirded out by the feeling that the Volt wagon was gaining momentum, when the fact was that it wasn't.

I seem to have strong reactions to feeling like I'm being manipulated, or to bad logic.  But you're correct, they don't necessarily make something scummy.  Thanks!

(See, this is why, of the people who I disagreed with a lot, Raerae seemed like the most towny to me, for actually being helpful to town and other people's scumhunting while disagreeing.)
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #693 on: July 19, 2013, 11:29:20 am »

This post is written with the intent of maximizing the information I can wring out of the fact that multiple players have voted for a townie (me). If you question that fact (reasonable!), this may not carry much weight.

As of when I started this post/re-read/research, the wagon on me was as follows:
(4): Robz, shraeye, chairs, mcmcsalot

The following player(s) have voted for me but are not currently on me:
(1): TwistedArcher

The following player(s) have expressed willingness to vote/lynch me:
(2): ashersky (many times), raerae (thinks I made a post that is the definition of scummy and will vote for either lio or me, but has since backed off)

(that's more than enough to put me at L-1, something I predict will probably happen)

The following player(s) have indicated they find me scummy:
(1): liopoil (maybe scumread)

The following player(s) have not expressed any opinion about me:
(2): Jimmmm, nkirbit

The following player(s) have stated that they do not like the case on me. I assume this means it is unlikely they vote me:
(2): UmbrageOfSnow, Eevee

So who do I find scummy here? I do not find shraeye scummy. I got a town v town vibe from our argument earlier, and I have found shraeye's other actions, and dedication to pushing my case as their top read, what I would expect from town.

Robz I do not find that additionally scummy for his vote on me. It's his other actions that give me a scum vibe. When Robz voted, TA was on me, so Robz's vote should be treated as second on my wagon (in my opinion). But Robz is no longer that strong a read for me. It's frustrating, because if Robz is scum, it means he's learned the lesson "never be townie" and he can play lite anti-town and survive as scum.

Chairs I find the most scummy. Others have covered this before, but he hopped on my wagon due to a "gut feel" that he has never explained, and it was the second time he'd done so. He's seen that TA has voted for me in the past, so he's the 3(4) vote on my wagon, tipping it over the edge to viability.

mcmc I also find scummy, but not as strongly. I don't know what to make of his ash vote, return to me, and now statement he doesn't want to lynch ash. His other contributions have been less than stellar, but mcmc did this in B2B too. If he hadn't claimed VT at the start, I would have been much more willing to vote him in that game, and he was town.

TA I have gotten town vibes from in other places, and his original vote on me is not bad. He called me out for something that scum occasionally do. Taken with his other behavior, I maintain a town read on TA.

Ash seems to be setting himself up very nicely to put me at L-1 or hammer me without seeming suspicious. It reeks of laying groundwork to me.

raerae apparently doesn't see the case on me after an (aborted?) re-read and has voted for Eevee for lurking. No info to gain there.

lio is also possibly setting himself up nicely to cast a late vote on me, but lio has faded into the background quite a bit and I'm not sure what to make of him at this point.

That's what I get from my wagon. There are some very interesting interactions going on among my scum reads that indicate either they are bussing or several of my reads are wrong, so I'm going to do more re-reading and try to puzzle that bit out.

Based on the above, I'll happily vote: chairs once again. Still open to Robz or ash.
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Eevee

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #694 on: July 19, 2013, 11:33:56 am »

Okay, Voltaires latest moves me to "firmly against lynching Volt" camp (it's pretty lonely in here).

Vote: chairs is probably in order, I doubt we can get ash today and stuff is starting to add up for him.
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shraeye

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #695 on: July 19, 2013, 11:34:40 am »

Woah woah woah, I just posted and I have now lost it...quite sad I actually explained my reads...hmm

Hour and a half an nothing more than this?  Are you going to just never explain them now because your computer glitched or whatever you're saying here?
I'm surely not giving his reads any weight at this point.

Um...what?  Why?  Just because he suspects you?
No, because Volt's scum, and wants to discredit people for little to no reason.
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raerae

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #696 on: July 19, 2013, 11:35:54 am »

This post is written with the intent of maximizing the information I can wring out of the fact that multiple players have voted for a townie (me). If you question that fact (reasonable!), this may not carry much weight.

As of when I started this post/re-read/research, the wagon on me was as follows:
(4): Robz, shraeye, chairs, mcmcsalot

The following player(s) have voted for me but are not currently on me:
(1): TwistedArcher

The following player(s) have expressed willingness to vote/lynch me:
(2): ashersky (many times), raerae (thinks I made a post that is the definition of scummy and will vote for either lio or me, but has since backed off)

Dude, you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding that and either way I don't like it.  I felt that you described Jimmmmm's action as being the definition of scummy, not that you were scummy.  Summary:  You said Jimmmmm was scummy, I didn't say you were scummy.
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #697 on: July 19, 2013, 11:38:58 am »

Dude, you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding that and either way I don't like it.  I felt that you described Jimmmmm's action as being the definition of scummy, not that you were scummy.  Summary:  You said Jimmmmm was scummy, I didn't say you were scummy.
Am I? Walk me through this. What I don't understand is why you would point it out. You're simply saying that I pointed out a scummy behavior by Jimmm, you posted to say you think the behavior is the definition of scummy, and that's that? So, in essence, you were agreeing with me that Jimmm's action was scummy?

This would explain why you have backed off me of late.
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Eevee

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #698 on: July 19, 2013, 11:42:17 am »

liopoil has been totally forgotten lately.
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« Reply #699 on: July 19, 2013, 11:47:13 am »

liopoil has been totally forgotten lately.
Not by me, but I agree with your larger point.

lio is also possibly setting himself up nicely to cast a late vote on me, but lio has faded into the background quite a bit and I'm not sure what to make of him at this point.

And nkirbit too, he's disappeared so much I didn't even list him in my wagonreads post.
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