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[SirPeebles]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

[werothegreat]

Or maybe this is actually also the Seaside second expansion in disguise, and the coin token cards are also Durations, and you put the coin tokens on them while they stay out.  Like Haven!

[Awaclus]

The problem with playing an action in the buy phase is:

What do you do with an action played in the buy phase? Draw more dead actions, and what's more, dead coins too! Alternatively, you might get +Actions that you can't use, or virtual coins that you can't use unless there is a buy left, or trashing that doesn't trash your coppers because they are in play. Attack cards and gainers are only slightly weaker than normally and Tactician is OP.

[SirPeebles]

The problem with playing an action in the buy phase is:

What do you do with an action played in the buy phase? Draw more dead actions, and what's more, dead coins too! Alternatively, you might get +Actions that you can't use, or virtual coins that you can't use unless there is a buy left, or trashing that doesn't trash your coppers because they are in play. Attack cards and gainers are only slightly weaker than normally and Tactician is OP.

If Smithy is the only action card in your hand, then don't spend the extra money to play an action.  Not really seeing a huge issue with that.  Tactician is rather strong though, even moreso than with Black Market.  However if one player goes Double Tac, you can really pull the rug out from under him or her by emptying this hypothetical kingdom pile.

[LastFootnote]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

It's plausible that coin tokens are just accumulated without a mat. Certainly, if I have a bunch of coin tokens just sitting in front of me on the table, I would guess that they'd be used as coins to buy cards. Pirate Ship is really the odd one out; it uses coin tokens for a specific purpose. The Pirate Ship mat is necessary to differentiate those tokens from the ones you can spend.

[Beyond Awesome]

Or, maybe they learned from market research players weren't using mats all that much. They are nice and all, but with VP tokens for instance, you don't really need a mat to keep track of them.

[LastFootnote]

Or, maybe they learned from market research players weren't using mats all that much. They are nice and all, but with VP tokens for instance, you don't really need a mat to keep track of them.

I find those quite useful, actually. Prosperity comes with exactly 16 1VP tokens. Assuming you have no more than 4 players, that's enough for each player to have 4 of them. That's exactly how many you need; if you have 4 on your mat and you get more, you just use a 5VP token. So when we play with Monument, Bishop, or Goons, I put the 5VP tokens in a communal pile, but I give 4 1VP tokens to each player up-front. They put them on the mat as they accumulate VP and take them off when they get to a multiple of 5.

[ftl]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

[liopoil]

So when we play with Monument, Bishop, or Goons, I put the 5VP tokens in a communal pile, but I give 4 1VP tokens to each player up-front. They put them on the mat as they accumulate VP and take them off when they get to a multiple of 5.

That's a great idea. I realized that they put the bare minimum, 16, but hadn't thought of doing that...

[ftl]

  Does there need to be any such price adjustment for an overpaying bonus?  My guess is no.

Cheese Destroyers Guild
$3 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $2 extra you may trash a card from your hand.

My guess would be yes, there needs to be a price adjustment. Not because of power level, but just to avoid the situation where people are buying Cheese Destroyers Guild for $3 when village is available for no reason besides because why not. Like, if both Village and CDG are on the board, you don't want a situation where somebody has $3, wants village, and just spends the buy on CDG instead because there's no reason not to. I think instead there'll be a situation where if you DON'T use the extra effect, the card will be a little overpriced for what it does -


Cheese Destroyers Guild
$4 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $1 extra you may trash a card from your hand.


Still buyable because sometimes you just want a village and you're willing to pay $4, but when both CDG AND Village are on the board, there'll be an interesting decision as to what to buy when you have $4 - do you want to deplete the pile which has an extra ability or the cheaper pile?

[heron]

Cheese Destroyers' Guild
$5 Action
+2 Cards, +1 Buy, +$1
When you buy this, you may destroy any amount of cheese (like, real cheese).
+1 vp per pound of cheese destroyed.

[werothegreat]

Cheese Destroyers' Guild
$5 Action
+2 Cards, +1 Buy, +$1
When you buy this, you may destroy any amount of cheese (like, real cheese).
+1 vp per pound of cheese destroyed.

But not Kraft.

[ftl]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

Oh man, I just changed my mind.

This is the same problem as with "gain a card from the trash". Before Dark Ages, "gain a card from the trash" would have been a terrible ability, useful only for niche combos, because most of the time, there's nothing in the trash worth gaining. Graverobber and Rogue both fixed this by themselves creating ways for useful stuff to be trashed, thus guaranteeing that in a game with one of them, there's useful stuff in the trash to be gained.

So this hypothetical play-an-action-card-from-your-hand would just have to do the same thing - it would have to be a card which is useful when played from hand after you've already bought something. And then that would solve the niche-ness problem.

[Ozle]

I seriously hope they are not slapstick names like Cheese Destroyers...

Also, I wonder if they were reading our thread about the cheese and were worried we knew something....

[ktartandude]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

[GendoIkari]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

I'm pretty sure that this tells us that you will put the coins on a set-aside Kingdom card.

[WinterSpartan]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

Farther north, in Alberta.

I was going to say the exact same thing as Kirian though. Those are definitely the Michigan seasons. (Well, between Winter and Road Construction, there's That One Really Warm Week in March and then Winter again, but eh.)

[liopoil]

...I'm still waiting for that one really warm week in march...

[eHalcyon]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

Farther north, in Alberta.

I was going to say the exact same thing as Kirian though. Those are definitely the Michigan seasons. (Well, between Winter and Road Construction, there's That One Really Warm Week in March and then Winter again, but eh.)

In Ontario:



And in Alberta:





 

[Beyond Awesome]

Where I live, it is summer 80% of the year, it seems. I love California.

[clb]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

It isn't quite that simple - clean-up is where you draw your 5 cards, so you would have to deliberately leave stuff unplayed. Or, perhaps it is the zombie village which lets you play actions that were drawn dead. Or the necromancer village? But since it is job-themed, the coroner's village? It would have to combo well with Necropolis, though...

[SirPeebles]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

It isn't quite that simple - clean-up is where you draw your 5 cards, so you would have to deliberately leave stuff unplayed. Or, perhaps it is the zombie village which lets you play actions that were drawn dead. Or the necromancer village? But since it is job-themed, the coroner's village? It would have to combo well with Necropolis, though...

I think that's entirely the point.  The whole idea is to play Action cards that are leftover in your hand, after all.   There seems to be no intention of discarding and drawing new cards.

[enfynet]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect. 

[SirPeebles]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect.

What does that mean?

[werothegreat]

I love how these threads always get hijacked by something.