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Author Topic: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Town Wins Flawlessly!  (Read 139079 times)

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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #300 on: December 05, 2012, 01:29:49 am »

All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #301 on: December 05, 2012, 01:34:36 am »

All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

Yeah, I've already got the link saved for easy access, and my trusty notepad of notes to track what I know. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something like "if there are 2 D, there cannot be 3 C" or something else random like that. Limitations, basically, is what I was wondering about - if there were ways to find out more about the setup based on less concrete information.

It appears not though. :( Just me 'n my notepad.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

cayvie

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #302 on: December 05, 2012, 01:46:17 am »

i think this is an open setup designed to be both interesting and mass-claim resistant

which is exciting
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Lekkit

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #303 on: December 05, 2012, 02:28:16 am »

Again, I don't have much input to add to the Vig theor(el?)y discussion, since this is pretty much my second normal mafia game. I do like to read the theory, though. And to be honest, what I enjoy the most in mafia is not really lynching scum, but rather trying to figure out who is scum. And my favorite way to do that is by lurking. I know it's not good for town when I do so, and I'll really be trying to make the game go forward.

I'm like most people (?) here and don't particularly like RVS, so that's why I've been quiet for most of the day this far. I do find it quite funny that both Jim and Eevee voted for me to bring me out of lurkiness as I think they've both been rather quiet themselves.

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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #304 on: December 05, 2012, 02:38:05 am »

i think this is an open setup designed to be both interesting and mass-claim resistant

which is exciting
i think this and great idea are my favorite goto setups.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #305 on: December 05, 2012, 07:36:29 am »

Again, I don't have much input to add to the Vig theor(el?)y discussion, since this is pretty much my second normal mafia game. I do like to read the theory, though. And to be honest, what I enjoy the most in mafia is not really lynching scum, but rather trying to figure out who is scum. And my favorite way to do that is by lurking. I know it's not good for town when I do so, and I'll really be trying to make the game go forward.

I'm like most people (?) here and don't particularly like RVS, so that's why I've been quiet for most of the day this far. I do find it quite funny that both Jim and Eevee voted for me to bring me out of lurkiness as I think they've both been rather quiet themselves.

Hi Lekkit!

I'll admit that I haven't been THAT active, but of course similar to you this is only my third "normal" Mafia game, the other two being blitz games that didn't get all that deep. So I'm no more sure how to contribute than you are. I have, however, actually been posting fairly regularly, mostly about the vigging issue, and also a theory about which I've received positive feedback from three people.

Eevee has been posting probably a little more regularly than me, although possibly less regularly than you might expect from Eevee.

On the other hand, before we voted for you, you had posted a total of 5-6 lines, with the only real substance being that you think vigging is more random than lynching.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, and I hope this doesn't come across as more defensive than it's meant to be, and I certainly understand not knowing what to post about on day 1, but at this stage you're either a scummy lurker or a Townie who hasn't really contributed much, and I think at this stage that's a good enough reason for a day 1 lynch as any.

Now I'm not sure where I stand on "post or be lynched", but since you've been reading, I'm interested to know who your biggest scum or Town reads are.
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theorel

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #306 on: December 05, 2012, 08:08:26 am »

All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

Yeah, I've already got the link saved for easy access, and my trusty notepad of notes to track what I know. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something like "if there are 2 D, there cannot be 3 C" or something else random like that. Limitations, basically, is what I was wondering about - if there were ways to find out more about the setup based on less concrete information.

It appears not though. :( Just me 'n my notepad.

Right no limitations like that.  If we assume that there was still near a 50% chance of each roll producing a non-T result though we get some probabilistic information.  There were 6 rolls, and if at least 2 produced non-T results then there are 3 mafia.  So, the probability of having 2 mafia is thus: (1/2)^6 + 6*(1/2)^6 ~ 11% (that's the probability of getting 5 or 6 T results)  So, with almost a 90% chance of having a mafia roleblocker (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls).  So, for my purposes I won't include the possibility of 2 mafia in any discussions.  Similarly, I think it's safe to assume we have a mafia roleblocker. 

Godfather is trickier, in the most likely case (3 T's) we have no Godfather.  Then there are the two sides of that (2 T's and 4 T's) one with godfather one without.  The remaining 4 options have Godfathers.  I think there are 20 ways to have the most common case, and 14 ways to have the remaining 4.  So, given no non-public information we are slightly more likely to have no godfather.  If you know there were 2 more non-T rolls for instance though, it would be 11 to 5 for the godfather existing.

Once again this is all assuming 50% likelihood of town roles which is not guaranteed.  But it's probably ball-park accurate.

I think the setup information is more useful outside of setup speculation and looking at whether fake-claims are true.  In particular, a claim which requires 2 rolls is stronger than a claim which only requires 1.  So, someone claiming Cop is making a stronger claim than someone claiming Doctor.  A claim which requires another role in order to exist is also stronger than one that doesn't, so 1-shot Doctor is stronger than Roleblocker.  Finally, the 1-shot roles never duplicate, therefore they're stronger claims than full-time roles.  This is because each of those situations are easier to be contradicted.  Now people claim contradictory roles anyways, the only one I think you're really unlikely to see is a 1-shot roleblocker claim, because it can be counter-claimed by another 1-shot roleblocker OR by the absence of a full-time roleblocker.

(Note: I'm using stronger in the sense of has more requirements and suggesting it is more likely to be true.  If scum make a stronger fake-claim, then they're more likely to be believed out of the gate, BUT they're also more likely to be proven false by the existence (or lack) of another town role, which is in fact why they're more likely to be believed.)
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theorel

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #307 on: December 05, 2012, 08:11:03 am »

Quote
So, with almost a 90% chance of having a mafia roleblocker (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls)
This sentence got mangled in editing.  It should say something along the lines of:
So, we have almost a 90% chance of having 3 mafia (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls).  All instances of 3 mafia also have a roleblocker, so this is the same as the probability of having a roleblocker.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #308 on: December 05, 2012, 09:44:25 am »

Had a bit of a re-read and found a couple of things I'm not entirely comfortable.

First cayvie.

1) He seems to have been posting a fair bit without actually contributing that much.

2) He seems to be somewhat buddying up to Robz. Not sure exactly what that means.

3) Obviously his main contribution has been the whole Eevee doctor thing.

ugh i've already screwed this up

see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.

I don't know, I'm not entirely comfortable with how certain cayvie seems to be of Eevee, based on a single, short post. I can't really see a Townie having that strong a scum-read on someone as to effectively say "I think Eevee is scum".

4) This is probably fairly minor, but:

you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.

haha

i read the mafia chat from RMM3

don't even pretend :)

Is it possible cayvie has the Mafia QT on his mind because he's just been posting there?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #309 on: December 05, 2012, 09:51:55 am »

A couple of things on Eevee:

raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.

At first I thought this was entirely innocent and cayvie picking up on it was a little scummy. However I think the scummy part of this is "the only reason". Eevee has either missed or excluded a blindingly obvious reason not to kill the IC: the fact that if there's a Doctor, he will probably protect the IC night 1. So I guess I can see where cayvie is coming from on this - the obvious response is "But Eevee, what about because an IC might be doctored?" And apparently doctor talk is bad for Town. I don't know.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with how quickly Eevee sheeped my vote on Lekkit.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #310 on: December 05, 2012, 09:53:28 am »

I think the scummy part of this

And by that I mean, "I think what was perceived to be scummy".
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cayvie

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #311 on: December 05, 2012, 03:03:48 pm »

Had a bit of a re-read and found a couple of things I'm not entirely comfortable.

First cayvie.

1) He seems to have been posting a fair bit without actually contributing that much.

2) He seems to be somewhat buddying up to Robz. Not sure exactly what that means.

3) Obviously his main contribution has been the whole Eevee doctor thing.

ugh i've already screwed this up

see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.

I don't know, I'm not entirely comfortable with how certain cayvie seems to be of Eevee, based on a single, short post. I can't really see a Townie having that strong a scum-read on someone as to effectively say "I think Eevee is scum".

4) This is probably fairly minor, but:

you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.

haha

i read the mafia chat from RMM3

don't even pretend :)

Is it possible cayvie has the Mafia QT on his mind because he's just been posting there?

where do you get that i'm buddying up to Robz?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #312 on: December 05, 2012, 03:28:20 pm »

i have a pretty strong town read on robz. nothing on anyone else atm.

idk, i didn't see any unstated intentions behind robz's posts.

i don't unvote, usually; i frequently forget who i'm voting for if i didn't place it recently.

(after Robz had been called out for "forgetting" who he had voted for)

Also, this might be a bit of a stretch, and I appreciated it, but I thought this might be an attempt at validating Robz' buddying:

Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.

He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.

Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.

oh i'm going to like playing with you

this is exactly the type of theory i like :)
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Cuzz

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #313 on: December 05, 2012, 03:45:31 pm »

Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.

/shrug

I'm going off to read.

To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.

Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.

Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.

If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #314 on: December 05, 2012, 03:57:35 pm »

Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.

/shrug

I'm going off to read.

To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.

Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.

Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.

If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.

I said it because it was what was on my mind, plain and simple.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #315 on: December 05, 2012, 04:00:08 pm »

Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.

/shrug

I'm going off to read.

To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.

Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.

Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.

If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.

I said it because it was what was on my mind, plain and simple.

To be more clear: I don't self edit as town. I don't sit there and go "I hope what I'm saying comes of townie enough". Quite simply, I don't give a damn. That was what was on my mind when I posted the first. Upon rereading it, I thought Axxle might feel I was attacking him with it directly, so I clarified.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #316 on: December 05, 2012, 04:04:10 pm »

Vote Count 1.7

Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz

Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.
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raerae

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #317 on: December 05, 2012, 04:47:04 pm »

Vote Count 1.7

Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz

Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.


Everybody cool with a soft deadline of Friday at 8pm forum time? Lynch the person with the most votes at that point if we haven't come to a decision yet?
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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #318 on: December 05, 2012, 04:56:43 pm »

Vote Count 1.7

Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz

Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.


Everybody cool with a soft deadline of Friday at 8pm forum time? Lynch the person with the most votes at that point if we haven't come to a decision yet?

That seems a little soon based on the level of activity in this game so far, though weekends are really bad for deadlines and we probably don't want to wait till Monday. So I guess I'm ok with this but would like it if people could try to ramp up the level of conversation before then. D1 is mostly just scrambling around in the dark anyway.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #319 on: December 05, 2012, 06:54:05 pm »

I think we can do it, but wouldn't be surprised if we 1. don't 2. get resistance for having such an early deadline.
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Lekkit

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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #320 on: December 05, 2012, 07:30:07 pm »

Been a bit busy at work and playing the DS champs.

I've only got one slight town read beside raerae, and that's theorel. He came out during RVS and pretty much ended it. However most of his posts seems to be theory oriented and not much analysis, although there isn't that much to analyze yet. Robz is hard to read as always and I could see his behaviour be either town or scum.

I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.
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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #321 on: December 05, 2012, 07:32:58 pm »

Been a bit busy at work and playing the DS champs.

I've only got one slight town read beside raerae, and that's theorel. He came out during RVS and pretty much ended it. However most of his posts seems to be theory oriented and not much analysis, although there isn't that much to analyze yet. Robz is hard to read as always and I could see his behaviour be either town or scum.

I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.

what do you think of the mini-wagon that formed on you? and of the people on it?
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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #322 on: December 05, 2012, 07:33:24 pm »

or did you already answer a question similar to that... I seem to remember that.
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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #323 on: December 05, 2012, 09:44:25 pm »

He commented on feeling it was unusual for Eevee and Jimmmmmm to be voting him given their relative lack of content.  And now he's commented on me, so he's hit everyone in some fashion.

Lekkit's posts have started to have content, so I'm happy to unvote.

I'm good with a Friday deadline.  Maybe a pending deadline will generate the communication that we're concerned isn't there.  I'm conflicted about it personally (which should have been evident by my previous comment), but if raerae is happy with it, I'm happy.

Hmmm...I think it's time for a reread and everybody-analysis.
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Re: Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse) - Day 1 Started!
« Reply #324 on: December 05, 2012, 09:45:32 pm »

Actually Vote: Abra since I want to hear from him, and he didn't post at all last night.
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