Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: ashersky on November 12, 2012, 06:15:50 pm
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Welcome to Mafia XVII: Tabula Rasa (Buffyverse)!
Spectator thread QT available on request - please PM me and I will send you the link. Thanks!
Please note: this game is immersed in the Buffyverse, and all flavor will reflect that. However, knowledge of Buffy is not required to play this game. All roles are standard mafia roles, with few, minor tweaks for flavor.
This game is NEWBIE-friendly. Newbies will be given priority sign-ups if needed, and appropriate considerations taken to ensure new players get the most out of their mafia experience.
A player will be considered a newbie if this game would be their first, second, or third game ever played.
Players Signed Up (newbies marked with *):
0 - ashersky
1 – Robz888 - Rupert Giles, the Scooby Gang Doctor - Killed Night 1
2 – Jimmmmm* - Angel, the Vanilla Scooby Gang
3 - cayvie - Mayor Wilkins, the Big Bad Godfather - Lynched D3
4 - Eevee - Anya, the Vanilla Scooby Gang
5 - Captain_Frisk>>> Robz888 - Glorificus, the Big Bad Roleblocker - Killed N2
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye - Spike, the Vanilla Scooby Gang
7 - Lekkit - The Master, the Big Bad Goon - Lynched D1
8 - Cuzz - Faith Lehane, the Serial Killer - Lynched D2
9 - theorel - Tara Maclay, the Scooby Gang Mason
10 - Watno >>> Galzria
11 - yuma - Willow Rosenberg, the Scooby Gang Mason
12 - Axxle - Buffy Summers, the Scooby Gang 1-shot Vigilante
13 – raerae* - Dawn Summers, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child - Killed N2
Co-Mod: Jorbles
Day Starts: D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg144217#msg144217) D2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg154396#msg154396)
Day Ends: D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg151908#msg151908)
Selected Vote Counts:
1.3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146008#msg146008) 1.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146834#msg146834) 1.10 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg149140#msg149140) 1.12 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg150454#msg150454)
2.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg155335#msg155335) 2.4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg157668#msg157668) 2.5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg157769#msg157769)
Mafia Ruleset (REVISIONS IN RED)
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to both mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines). If we do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have "bankable deadlines." See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline. The rules for calculating deadlines are as follows:
- All Days are guaranteed to be at least three days and at most eighteen days long.
- Day 1 is set to last for eighteen days.
- Day 2 and each subsequent day will last for:
--- three days, PLUS
--- all unused days left over at the end of the previous Day;
--- up to a maximum of eighteen days.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
GAME SET-UP, ROLES, AND NEWBIE SPECIFIC INFORMATION LISTED IN NEXT POST
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Game Setup
This game will be semi-open, using the C9++ setup (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B).
There will be a total of thirteen players, consisting of:
- between nine and eleven Town players (including between zero and seven power roles);
- two or three Mafia players; and
- zero or one Serial Killer players (There is exactly a 50% chance of a Serial Killer being included in this set-up).
Other notes:
- This setup uses a Daystart
- Serial Killer chooses Investigation Immunity or 1-shot BP pregame.
- Cops are guaranteed to be sane
- Cops get results in the form of Town/Antitown or Innocent/Guilty - SK's show up as Antitown/Guilty unless they have Inv-Immunity.
- Innocent Child is revealed at the start of Day 1 by the mod
- Doctors prevent one night kill.
- Mafia Roleblocker cannot kill AND block in the same night
The exact distribution of roles is randomly distributed. To keep the game balanced, the more power roles there are among the Town players, the more players and/or power roles there are among the anti-Town players.
This game is immersed in the Buffyverse, and all flavor will reflect that. However, knowledge of Buffy is not required to play this game. All roles are standard mafia roles, with few, minor tweaks for flavor. Buffy flavor has not substantively changed any of the roles from their normal Mafia versions. A list of all roles potentially in the game follows:
- Town Cop
- Town 1-Shot Cop
- Town Doctor
- Town 1-Shot Doctor
- Town Vigilante
- Town 1-Shot Vigilante
- Town Innocent Child*
- Town Mason
- Town Roleblocker
- Town 1-Shot Roleblocker
- Vanilla Townie
- Mafia Goon
- Mafia Godfather*
- Mafia Roleblocker*
- Serial Killer*
Any of the above-listed roles may be present in the game. If a role is marked with an asterisk (*) above, there will be NO MORE THAN ONE of these roles in the game. If a role is NOT marked with an asterisk, then multiple players may have this role. If a role is not listed above, it will not appear in this game.
The following mechanics rules apply:
- Kill flavor may be (but is not necessarily) a clue to the identity of the killer.
- Roles that target another player at night may NOT self-target, unless specified.
- If an X-Shot ability is roleblocked, one Shot is used up.
- Night actions will be processed in order of "natural action resolution" (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_action_resolution). This means that:
1. All actions that cannot possibly be modified by any other actions are resolved FIRST.
2. After those actions are resolved, step 1 is repeated for any remaining actions, until all actions are resolved.
3. If there is a loop - e.g., Player X's action affects Player Y's action, which affects Player Z's action, which affects Player X's action - then actions will be resolved in the following order of priority:
- Roleblocking
- Protecting
- Killing
- Investigating
Note: Town and Mafia are known as Scooby Gang and Big Bads in this game.
Newbie Information
This game is specifically planned to be Newbie friendly. There are no tricky mechanics, Mod lies, or expert tactics required for this game. While the Buffyverse is in play for flavor, it does not change the nature of the game.
All newbies (and other players) should feel free to PM the Mods with any and all questions at any time during sign-up, confirmation, (game) day or (game) night. We will endeavor to explain any and all aspects of the mafia game to you. You will have all the support you need to ensure you have a great mafia experience.
Also, we highly recommend you read the mafiascum wiki pages on the set-up and all possible roles. This will help you have a better understanding of the game.
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can't miss a buffy game!
/in
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know nothing of buffy, in
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know nothing of buffy, in
well, if the game has anything to do with the episode it's titled after, that shouldn't matter
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know nothing of buffy, in
well, if the game has anything to do with the episode it's titled after, that shouldn't matter
Don't ruin it for everyone. It'll be a great surprise.
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Never seen an episode, but in and looking forward to it.
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Erm....how many newbies are you expecting in a 13 player game?
I thought the idea of newbie games were that they were simple with only a couple of roles...
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yeah, this isn't quite the newbie setup I was expecting, so I'll /out... I personally want to play a stereotypical 9 player game, perhaps some other time.
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Erm....how many newbies are you expecting in a 13 player game?
I thought the idea of newbie games were that they were simple with only a couple of roles...
As many as want to sign up. The last newbie specific game was 9 players (MX) -- that was my first game and I was the doctor. I think as long as the set-up is clear and static, it'll be okay. If there's disagreement, I'll pull the game and wait for later.
This should be fine for newbies--Jorbles is co-mod and reviewed it, so he can chime in and agree or disagree as warranted.
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yeah, this isn't quite the newbie setup I was expecting, so I'll /out... I personally want to play a stereotypical 9 player game, perhaps some other time.
I don't know that anyone's queued up to host one--possibly someone will soon? I think Insom's ZM3 was the closest we've had--that set-up would work without the blitz portion.
Again, I'll delete the thread if the community wants.
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yeah, this isn't quite the newbie setup I was expecting, so I'll /out... I personally want to play a stereotypical 9 player game, perhaps some other time.
I don't know that anyone's queued up to host one--possibly someone will soon? I think Insom's ZM3 was the closest we've had--that set-up would work without the blitz portion.
Again, I'll delete the thread if the community wants.
No don't delete it, I think this will work for a newbie game... I may sign up if I am out in other games, but the only way I was going to sign up for a third game was if it was the more generic setup.
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How are you going get newbies to join this? We already have 3, but some people aren't constantly looking for Mafia games.
I can change my signature to link to this thread if you'd like. It might attract more people.
I'll /in though, but if a newbie wants to take my place, let them go ahead.
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How are you going get newbies to join this? We already have 3, but some people aren't constantly looking for Mafia games.
I can change my signature to link to this thread if you'd like. It might attract more people.
I'll /in though, but if a newbie wants to take my place, let them go ahead.
I think word of mouth will be the best way to get people to sign up. I just don't know how many actual newbies we have interested in games. I PMed one, have Jimmmmm signed up already, and hope Qvist will as well.
Are there other newbies around? Theory, might be time you finally come to the dark side.
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Huh, yeah, ok. Hopefully you can pull some people in!
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How are you going get newbies to join this? We already have 3, but some people aren't constantly looking for Mafia games.
I can change my signature to link to this thread if you'd like. It might attract more people.
I'll /in though, but if a newbie wants to take my place, let them go ahead.
I just added a line to my signature. If you want to, that helps as well.
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Im in!
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Confirming that I am in.
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Since RMM3 is over, I'll /in this one for a more normal game. And also Buffy.
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How are you going get newbies to join this? We already have 3, but some people aren't constantly looking for Mafia games.
I can change my signature to link to this thread if you'd like. It might attract more people.
I'll /in though, but if a newbie wants to take my place, let them go ahead.
I just added a line to my signature. If you want to, that helps as well.
Good idea. Done.
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Ok, I'll /in for this. I was a bit turned off by theme (I just mean I know nothing about Buffy, not that I have anything against it), but it seems like it will play normally. Will you be making public what the themed names of all the roles are?
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Ok, I'll /in for this. I was a bit turned off by theme (I just mean I know nothing about Buffy, not that I have anything against it), but it seems like it will play normally. Will you be making public what the themed names of all the roles are?
The role names won't change (for example, Cop is still Cop). Flavor names are handled in a manner where zero knowledge of the show is needed to play this game. It's really just a normal mafia game reskinned with Buffy. Almost 100% mostly, anyway. I promise it's fun, and you'll like it.
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also watch some damn buffy
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We need 5 more for a full game here. I think we've captured all the newbies, unless shraeye gets his girlfriend to join.
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I might join this game, but I'd probably want to /out somewhere else if I do.
Abra655 is a friend of mine IRL, so there's a twinclaim to watch out for. Mostly I'd join so it can get started sooner for his sake.
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Still in sry been gone awhile
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Still in sry been gone awhile
Thanks Abra. No worries, this game is still on track. A few games have ended so this is moving up.
Also, bump for a few folks still looking for games.
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Alright dead in 11, baby born, 13-player game. Everything sounds good, I'm in.
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apparently I am too big a Buffy fan to miss this game. /in
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tentative /in
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most of the other games are winding down I think I can
/in
for this.
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All but one spot is filled up. This game is set to start a bit after yuma's.
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sorry Asher, but I'm going to have to /out.
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/in for raerae. She'll be ready by the time this kicks off.
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Excuse me - why am I not in?
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Got another newbie, plus Frisk, so we are full!
Will start this when XVI goes into N1 I think, unless there are other suggestions.
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I will give up.my spot to any new or newish players who want it.
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I should probably change my sig now, huh?
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I should probably change my sig now, huh?
Probably.
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/in for raerae. She'll be ready by the time this kicks off.
I appreciate the confidence but make no promises. Guess I'm in...
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/in for raerae. She'll be ready by the time this kicks off.
I appreciate the confidence but make no promises. Guess I'm in...
does this mean shraeye gets +1000?
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The random gnomes did their work and roles are now assigned. PMs are basically written, but won't go out quite yet, since that's the best part anyway.
Now's the time to start tagging this thread to follow. There will be a Spectator QT, of course.
When Casino Helsinki goes into night, or if XI ends someday, this one will start up.
Also, +1000 to shraeye.
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FYI, PMs are fully written for each of you. You may begin salivating.
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Putting out the call for thread taggers and speccy QT requests now.
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Definitely want the QT.
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Do folks want PMs today? I'm comfortable with 24-48 hours of Night 0. Trying to guesstimate when XI will finally die it's tragic death and XVI will go into night is like...something appropriate for this analogy.
Thread unlocked for a bit.
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Do folks want PMs today? I'm comfortable with 24-48 hours of Night 0. Trying to guesstimate when XI will finally die it's tragic death and XVI will go into night is like...something appropriate for this analogy.
Thread unlocked for a bit.
Just gimme my pm
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^
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^
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^
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Do folks want PMs today? I'm comfortable with 24-48 hours of Night 0. Trying to guesstimate when XI will finally die it's tragic death and XVI will go into night is like...something appropriate for this analogy.
Thread unlocked for a bit.
PMs will go out if/when I get seven votes for it.
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Septavote: yes
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PM (5): Insomniac, Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk
It takes 7 to lynch PM
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PM (5): Insomniac, Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk
Not In This Game (1): Insomniac
It takes 7 to lynch PM
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PMs will go out if/when I get seven votes for it.
^ did not specify whether the votes have to come from players in this game.
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Vote
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vote
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what happens when some one votes against?
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Vote
PM (7): Insomniac, Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk, Jimmmmm, Axxle2
No PM (1): yuma
It takes 7 to lynch PM
PMs are sent!
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Vote
PM (7): Insomniac, Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk, Jimmmmm, Axxle2
No PM (1): yuma
It takes 7 to lynch PM
PMs are sent!
I don't like mine. /out
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what happens when some one votes against?
I'd take it into consideration. PMs haven't actually gone out yet. Were you joking or raising a true concern?
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what happens when some one votes against?
I'd take it into consideration. PMs haven't actually gone out yet. Were you joking or raising a true concern?
joke
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PM Vote Count
PM (5): Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk, Jimmmmm
Not voting (8): Robz888, cayvie, Abra655, Lekkit, theorel, jotheonah, yuma, raerae
With 13 playing it takes 7 to lynch PM.
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PM Vote Count
PM (5): Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk, Jimmmmm
Not voting (8): Robz888, cayvie, Abra655, Lekkit, theorel, jotheonah, yuma, raerae
With 13 playing it takes 7 to lynch PM.
vote: send PMs is what i meant by my joke...
This one isn't a joke, seriously.
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PM Vote Count
PM (6 Send-1): Axxle, Eevee, Cuzz, Captain Frisk, Jimmmmm, yuma
Not voting (7): Robz888, cayvie, Abra655, Lekkit, theorel, jotheonah, raerae
With 13 playing it takes 7 to lynch PM.
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Quick, someone hammer!
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vote
I did... cayvie voted, but isn't listed.
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Quick, someone hammer!
Sorry, neither TheMunch nor O are in this game.
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vote
I did... cayvie voted, but isn't listed.
Good catch.
Thread locked.
Do NOT confirm in thread. Confirm ONLY in PM to me.
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You can actually lock the thread, bottom left corner.
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All, this game will launch sometime Sunday evening. MXI and MXV are nearing completion and MXVI may be in night by then. Everyone be ready, this game will be epic.
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For everyone's information, a few clarifications:
1. Dead mafia will not be able to post in their QT.
2. You really, really don't need any Buffy knowledge to play and succeed in this game.
3. You do need to read the flavor, though. Do not ignore it.
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24 hour (or so) notice to all.
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I need one sub, pronto.
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Watno has replaced jotheonah. Game to start in a bit.
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It’s eerily silent in the Magic Box. It’s open for business, but no one seems interested in buying magical artifacts or ingredients today. The door’s closed, and some sunlight trickles in through the front window.
Oh, and there are fourteen bodies lying around the shop.
Some of them are splayed out on the floor, a few are leaning against the counter, one is even face down on a large, wooden table covered in books and orbs.
And then…
Abra655, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888, theorel, Watno, and Yuma wake up slowly, in fits and starts.
They all look around at each other. Bewildered looks grow on their faces as they try to sort out what’s happened, where this is, who they are. They squint, jerk away quickly when they realize there’s a complete stranger right next to them, sit huddled in corners eyeing each other warily.
Wait. Fourteen bodies?
One of the group screams in surprise—her hand had landed on something cold, and mushy. And then they saw him.
ashersky lay still, cold, and unnaturally white on the ground. They looked closer; there were two holes in his neck. His head and strikingly handsome face were bruised. His neck was broken. A chill went down their collective spines.
Now the wariness turned to outright fear and confusion. “Who am I?” is no longer the question on their lips, but “who are they, and who did that?” Muscles tense, fists clench, and the tension rises until…
“Guys? What’s happening? Don’t you remember me?” raerae said. “It’s me, Dawn? Dawn Summers, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child? Some of you are in the Scooby Gang too, but…I don’t know, I don’t think we were this big of a group.”
raerae shrugged. “We need to figure this out guys, and then we’ll be okay. I just know it, for some reason… If only we knew who you all were, even your names...guys, come on guys...oh, I wish someone was here to protect me. But I just don't recognize any of you. Don't you even know your own names?”
Not one of them spoke up. It was clear that whatever had put them here, whatever had rendered them unconscious, had also taken their memories. So fear and suspicion melded into grim determination. They would just have to “figure it out,” as Dawn had said, even though no one could remember anything about themselves, or anyone around them. But could they do it in time?
Day 1 has begun.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Sup!
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I'm up.
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Oh god, I'm a self-harming kleptomaniac? Awesome.
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Anyone else for a Dawn policy lynch? :P
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vote:yuma
So autocorrect has spoken, so it shall be.
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I posted this in Vla - but I am traveling this week. Nearly off the grid until next Sunday. With a 12/20 deadline this seems ok - but f mod wants to replace me - so be it.
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I posted this in Vla - but I am traveling this week. Nearly off the grid until next Sunday. With a 12/20 deadline this seems ok - but f mod wants to replace me - so be it.
I'm sure you'll phone post. No need to sub at this point.
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Wow a RVS that I am actually around for... I guess I should vote someone... naw, I don't think I will
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Vote Count 1.1
Yuma (1): Axxle
Not Voting (12): Abra655, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888, theorel, Watno, Yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Wow a RVS that I am actually around for... I guess I should vote someone... naw, I don't think I will
wat. Vote for this scum!
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hmm...no Insomniac.
I guess I'll vote: Robz888, since he made us lose in MVIII.
Anyways, C9++ has pretty straight-forward roles. I think the random-town stuff from the pirate game applies and some one-shots are best used early (day1 for cop, day2 for vig assuming some informative roles are around, because it gives them a chance to reveal). I have no idea about 1-shot roleblocker or doctor, those are probably best saved till at least mid-game?
We're slightly less likely than even to have a SK, since we have at least 1 PR rolled. Although other PRs will have different probabilities for that.
With a town of 13 and (likely) 3 mafia, we have 9/10 town and 0/1 SK.
With no SK: we can have 7 deaths before we lose, which means 4 mislynches to lose if we don't no-lynch, and don't block a kill. (i.e. 3 allowed and we can still win)
With a SK: we only get like 5 deaths before we lose (because 4 town v. 3 mafia + SK is essentially a loss), but SK could hit scum at night. IF SK always hits town different from mafia (which is just a worst-case scenario), we get 2 mislynches to lose. Obviously there's a lot of variability here though depending on how the SK does, and when/if he dies. Anyways, SK makes it a much more dangerous game for the town, since there's less room for error.
And, that's about all I've got theory-wise at the moment. Hopefully something will happen soon-ish to take us out of RVS.
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Whoooosh!
Something just flew right over my head.
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
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Also, everyone has to remember that we are constantly working at trying to "solve" the setup: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B
Since we know there is an IC, there are either no Masons, or exactly 2 Masons, in this game.
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
Shraeye has very patiently answered all my questions about the different possible roles in this game but I'm interested in your take on why it would be better for a vet to be the IC instead? Other than the fact that I don't know nothin' bout nothin'.
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I think we shouldn't be discussing the power role distribution now, since the probablities of stuff being in are different for those who have a power role.
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
Shraeye has very patiently answered all my questions about the different possible roles in this game but I'm interested in your take on why it would be better for a vet to be the IC instead? Other than the fact that I don't know nothin' bout nothin'.
Well, you may note that this is the 17th "regular" game of mafia on these forums. I am the only person who as played all 17, but quite a few other players have participated in a LOT of games. Basically, I have ideas about how certain people play as town, and how they play as mafia.
So let's say uh, Cuzz!, is acting a certain way. I might say to myself, "Hmm, Cuzz acted a similar way in M-XII, when he was town. Perhaps this means he is again town." And then I turn to Frisk, who was also in that game, and say "Frisk, do you agree?"
The problem is that I have no idea if Frisk is aligned with the town. So perhaps he will try to mislead me, to protect his scumbuddy Cuzz. Now, if Frisk were Innocent Child, I could no for sure to trust his reads, and his feedback on my reads.
Since you are the Innocent Child I can't really bounce my thoughts on whether people are playing to their town or scum "meta" off on you, because you don't know--you've never played with these people. (Which should not be construed as a criticism; everyone has to start somewhere, and we are happy to have new people; everybody was a newbie at some point; etc.)
I also think newbies are less likely to be mislynched, so it's a bit of a waste for YOU to be our IC. But that's not your fault! Sorry, I feel like this is a really hostile introduction.
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I think we shouldn't be discussing the power role distribution now, since the probablities of stuff being in are different for those who have a power role.
Well... we shouldn't discuss it so specifically that one would confess to having a PR, no. But we should establish that which is certain, regardless of what role you or I might have; for instance, there must be either no masons, or exactly 2 of them, based on publicly available knowledge.
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Robz, Cuzz and Frisk:
This game is awfully similar to MXII which didn't go very well for town. I viewed it from a mod's point of view. But what do you think went so wrong in that game. My two take aways from it were, lynch scummy lurkers and scum bussing can be very beneficial. But what do you think down did or didn't do that was detrimental to town--and that we shouldn't do in this game?
At least no one claimed VT in the pre-game.
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Robz, Cuzz and Frisk:
This game is awfully similar to MXII which didn't go very well for town. I viewed it from a mod's point of view. But what do you think went so wrong in that game. My two take aways from it were, lynch scummy lurkers and scum bussing can be very beneficial. But what do you think down did or didn't do that was detrimental to town--and that we shouldn't do in this game?
At least no one claimed VT in the pre-game.
Well, it's simple. We lost that game because of Frisk.
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*And ashersky! Who is here. Don't go shooting people Night 1. Just... don't... do it!
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
Shraeye has very patiently answered all my questions about the different possible roles in this game but I'm interested in your take on why it would be better for a vet to be the IC instead? Other than the fact that I don't know nothin' bout nothin'.
Well, you may note that this is the 17th "regular" game of mafia on these forums. I am the only person who as played all 17, but quite a few other players have participated in a LOT of games. Basically, I have ideas about how certain people play as town, and how they play as mafia.
So let's say uh, Cuzz!, is acting a certain way. I might say to myself, "Hmm, Cuzz acted a similar way in M-XII, when he was town. Perhaps this means he is again town." And then I turn to Frisk, who was also in that game, and say "Frisk, do you agree?"
The problem is that I have no idea if Frisk is aligned with the town. So perhaps he will try to mislead me, to protect his scumbuddy Cuzz. Now, if Frisk were Innocent Child, I could no for sure to trust his reads, and his feedback on my reads.
Since you are the Innocent Child I can't really bounce my thoughts on whether people are playing to their town or scum "meta" off on you, because you don't know--you've never played with these people. (Which should not be construed as a criticism; everyone has to start somewhere, and we are happy to have new people; everybody was a newbie at some point; etc.)
I also think newbies are less likely to be mislynched, so it's a bit of a waste for YOU to be our IC. But that's not your fault! Sorry, I feel like this is a really hostile introduction.
I just spit water everywhere at that. But no worries, it take way more than truth to hurt my feelings. I appreciate the explanation and that does make sense. Thank you!
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Okay, mostly kidding blaming aside, yeah, Lynch All Lurkers, like for sure for sure. Insomniac played a really strong game. Grujah was too scummy to be believed, so we ended up not believing it, so we lost.
People will say all the claiming really ruined things, but I'm not so sure it did. If I knew how to read Joth better, it mightn't have all been for nought.
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Okay, mostly kidding blaming aside, yeah, Lynch All Lurkers, like for sure for sure. Insomniac played a really strong game. Grujah was too scummy to be believed, so we ended up not believing it, so we lost.
People will say all the claiming really ruined things, but I'm not so sure it did. If I knew how to read Joth better, it mightn't have all been for nought.
This will be a bit of a strange game w/o Galz, Insomniac, jot and voltgloss
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
Shraeye has very patiently answered all my questions about the different possible roles in this game but I'm interested in your take on why it would be better for a vet to be the IC instead? Other than the fact that I don't know nothin' bout nothin'.
Well, you may note that this is the 17th "regular" game of mafia on these forums. I am the only person who as played all 17, but quite a few other players have participated in a LOT of games. Basically, I have ideas about how certain people play as town, and how they play as mafia.
So let's say uh, Cuzz!, is acting a certain way. I might say to myself, "Hmm, Cuzz acted a similar way in M-XII, when he was town. Perhaps this means he is again town." And then I turn to Frisk, who was also in that game, and say "Frisk, do you agree?"
The problem is that I have no idea if Frisk is aligned with the town. So perhaps he will try to mislead me, to protect his scumbuddy Cuzz. Now, if Frisk were Innocent Child, I could no for sure to trust his reads, and his feedback on my reads.
Since you are the Innocent Child I can't really bounce my thoughts on whether people are playing to their town or scum "meta" off on you, because you don't know--you've never played with these people. (Which should not be construed as a criticism; everyone has to start somewhere, and we are happy to have new people; everybody was a newbie at some point; etc.)
I also think newbies are less likely to be mislynched, so it's a bit of a waste for YOU to be our IC. But that's not your fault! Sorry, I feel like this is a really hostile introduction.
I just spit water everywhere at that. But no worries, it take way more than truth to hurt my feelings. I appreciate the explanation and that does make sense. Thank you!
Yeah, again, you couldn't control it. And there's no use me complaining over it, cause it can't be changed...
..But imagine how much better it would be if your were a Cop or a Doctor or something. I just don't think the mafia would be likely to kill you Night 1, so those are better PRs for you. Okay, I'm done complaining.
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Okay, mostly kidding blaming aside, yeah, Lynch All Lurkers, like for sure for sure. Insomniac played a really strong game. Grujah was too scummy to be believed, so we ended up not believing it, so we lost.
People will say all the claiming really ruined things, but I'm not so sure it did. If I knew how to read Joth better, it mightn't have all been for nought.
This will be a bit of a strange game w/o Galz, Insomniac, jot and voltgloss
Eevee and Frisk are actually the people I am most accustomed to seeing now, so I'm glad they are here.
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
I would have liked to be an IC.
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I agree with Robz, IC falling to raerae is slightly unlucky for town. We'll obviously play what we have though. Nice to meet you anyways!
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*And ashersky! Who is here. Don't go shooting people Night 1. Just... don't... do it!
I don't think this is right...vig shooting people should be left entirely up to his reads. That said, let's work out some optimalities for a full-time vig regardless of reads, since I don't think we've done that before. I'll assume 3 scum since 2 scum mostly just makes it easier for town. I'll suppose no SK for the moment.
First analysis: suppose vig survives till end of game.
13 players. Each lynch results in 2 deaths at night.
If all lynches and vig-shots go astray we get: 3 kills per day so after 2 days we've had 6 kills, leaving 7 players and 3 scum. So, if the third lynch is town we lose. This is one less mislynch than normal...but we got 2 extra town-directed (well vig-directed anyways) kills which essentially have a higher probability of hitting scum (since vig will guaranteed not kill himself).
Since his third shot here is essentially wasted (if we lynch town it doesn't matter, if we lynch scum and he shoots he may lose us the game anyways...) Let's suppose he saves his first shot.
Then we get 5 kills over the first 2 nights. And have 8 players to 3 scum. Now if we mislynch we go to 7-3, 6-3 after the NK, and so vig can try to kill to bring it back. So compared to shooting first and second night, vig is taking things in his own hands a little more here. It could be better if mafia is lynched or SK exists, it could be worse if the vig dies night2.
Now, if there's a SK that'd be potentially 3 kills night1. That'd be crazy, since if no one hit scum we'd be in terrible shape.
Anyways, I would lean slightly towards a full-time vig killing starting night1. It could end badly for town, but hey it gives 4 town-directed mis-kills before losing. That's much better than the 3 that we get without the vig shooting. A lot depends on the vig's reads and confidence though.
Personally I think a 1-shot vig should shoot after claiming (then he acts as a pseudo-IC, since counter-claims can be NKed). And then his shot should be accompanied by a no-lynch to preserve parity...unless a NK is blocked or a SK is killing (which both change parity on their own).
I disagree that it's unlucky for raerae to be IC. First, mafia might be less wanting to shoot her because of her "inexperience". If scum has to choose between killing a confirmed town and killing, say, town-Robz night1 that's an advantage for town. Second, it means that as town we don't need to worry about being unable to "read" raerae. Now, there's a certain level of uncertainty that lays simultaneously in raerae's quality of reads (unknown), analytical skills, and talkativeness, which are all unknowns. For sure, if she just sits back and lurks that will be bad for town to have her as the IC. But if she is good for bouncing ideas off of, regardless of whether those ideas are based in player's metas I think it could be actually beneficial that she's the IC.
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I disagree with everything theorel just said.
He may be right on the statistics of vig shots, but we have real history to go off, too. And in real history, vig's have been disastrous for town. Yuma shot the town's IC before the IC came forward in M-VIII, changing a likely town win into a scum win. Morgrim's shot sabotaged a likely town victory in M-IX, delivering the game to the Serial Killer. In M-XII, ashersky's shot did the maximum amount of damage, by shooting the person that the town Hider was hiding behind, killing them both.
So, no, I will stand firm here, and insist that town Vigs absolutely do NOT fire on Night 1. I don't want them firing at all without town input. Vigs are for the endgame, when we are more informed and possibly need to take lucky shots to win. Do not fire now. Can people back me up here?
He is also wrong about the mafia deciding whether or not to kill raerae. Either the scum will decide they would rather take a shot at possibly more dangerous PRs, and not shoot her, or they will want to take out the IC, and they will shoot her. I think it will have very little to do with who she is. Also, I'm much more confident in my ability to read newbies--who haven't learned how to fool me yet--than my ability to read the experts.
Vote:theorel for uncharacteristically bad analysis.
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No space, oops, Vote: Theorel
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If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
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If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
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If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
Excuse me, but you're shot in M-VIII is the perfect example of why you shouldn't shoot just because you had a scumread and you thought you were going to die. You were wrong on both counts. Most vigs usually are. So please do us all a favor and don't go around pretending that this time it will be different. It won't.
Your Frisk example is an invalid one. He had no idea he was a Vigilante, no more than the rest of us.
Galzria shot successfully on Night 2 in M-VI, I believe. After vigorous public discourse.
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If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
vote: robz the only person a vig can trust is confirmed town and themselves. Leaving when to use a vig up to town allows them to be potentially manipulated by scum. If I were vig I would ignore all of the posts regarding vigging and just do whatever I felt was best. From my own personal experience that would be to not shoot earlier. But that is me and a vig can't know that I am town, so can't trust my opinion on the matter.
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If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
Excuse me, but you're shot in M-VIII is the perfect example of why you shouldn't shoot just because you had a scumread and you thought you were going to die. You were wrong on both counts. Most vigs usually are. So please do us all a favor and don't go around pretending that this time it will be different. It won't.
Your Frisk example is an invalid one. He had no idea he was a Vigilante, no more than the rest of us.
Galzria shot successfully on Night 2 in M-VI, I believe. After vigorous public discourse.
I am not telling the vig to shoot... I am not telling the vig to do anything, except to not listen to theory talk about the vig because it can be manipulated. As I said above, if it were me I wouldn't shoot. But that is just me.
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unvote
that didn't deserve a vote
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Also ashersky what is the rationale for only 18 bankable days instead of 21?
If you would rather not tell me that is fine, but both Volt's game and my game use 21 and I am curious about the change.
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Also ashersky what is the rationale for only 18 bankable days instead of 21?
If you would rather not tell me that is fine, but both Volt's game and my game use 21 and I am curious about the change.
It was a conscious decision to limit the maximum day length to three human weeks. That's all.
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Vote Count 1.2
Yuma (1): Axxle
theorel (1): Robz888
Not Voting (11): Abra655, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, theorel, Watno, Yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Robz has a vote on theorel I believe
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A few questions,
As there is an active member of our group that is mod declared and ?controlled? character (DAWN, raerae), how do her interactions affect us, am i missing this in the explanations.
As a Buffy fan I recall a lot of this episode and will probably re-watch it if i can get my netflix to work tonight, should we try and emmulate the episode like should we figure out who we are/can we ask for specific flavor information from the mod it seams that flavor will be especially essential to this game
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Season 6 episode 8 for the curious
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Season 6 episode 8 for the curious
Wow im half asleep just spent a few minutes I tried to find a like button
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Telling the Vig not to shoot isn't something the mafia can manipulate; it's just the right thing to do. It's like if you and me are playing Dominion, and I tell you that Sea Hag is a good opening here--it's a 2-person Colony game with no trashing--and you say, "Well why should I believe you? You are trying to beat me."
Which, sure, fine... but you should open Sea Hag. You can trust what you're opponent told you here, because it's just the right thing from an evidence standpoint.
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There are stats on mafiascum saying that the vig targets with less acurracy than random. That said it depends on the player and his/her reads. And why are you guys assuming a vig anyway?
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The episode isn't very helpful
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Hi all. I guess this game is well and truly underway.
I think given how much discussion there has been on it, Robz should give more of an all-round Vigilante strategy than just to say "Don't shoot night 1 or unless we tell you to." When would you shoot if you were Vig?
After a little more thought, the "unless we tell you to" part seems like it wouldn't work. If a majority is telling you to shoot, then couldn't that majority simply vote for the person they are telling you to shoot? So unless people think they know who more than one Mafia is, which would probably result in a Town win anyway if true, anyone telling the Vig to shoot someone in particular is going to be a non-majority, so the Vig is going to have to make the decision based on his own reads and/or other people's arguments anyway.
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Hi all. I guess this game is well and truly underway.
I think given how much discussion there has been on it, Robz should give more of an all-round Vigilante strategy than just to say "Don't shoot night 1 or unless we tell you to." When would you shoot if you were Vig?
After a little more thought, the "unless we tell you to" part seems like it wouldn't work. If a majority is telling you to shoot, then couldn't that majority simply vote for the person they are telling you to shoot? So unless people think they know who more than one Mafia is, which would probably result in a Town win anyway if true, anyone telling the Vig to shoot someone in particular is going to be a non-majority, so the Vig is going to have to make the decision based on his own reads and/or other people's arguments anyway.
If I were a Vig I want not shoot. If I were forced to claim, and it was later in the game, I would field opinions on whom I should shoot, and then maybe do it. I want not shoot Night 1 under any circumstance.
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If I were a Vig I want not shoot.
Are you talking ever, or just night 1? I know you wouldn't shoot night 1. Other than to save yourself, under what conditions would you shoot?
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As a Buffy fan I recall a lot of this episode and will probably re-watch it if i can get my netflix to work tonight, should we try and emmulate the episode like should we figure out who we are/can we ask for specific flavor information from the mod it seams that flavor will be especially essential to this game
I want to clarify that the flavor of this game is based on the particular episode, but nothing else. Watching the episode (while a great way to spend an hour), will not give you any advantage or information for use in this game, other than a point of reference for the flavor I make up in my posts.
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If I were a Vig I want not shoot.
Are you talking ever, or just night 1? I know you wouldn't shoot night 1. Other than to save yourself, under what conditions would you shoot?
Well, there are situations where a Vig might have to shoot in some hope of saving the game from a loss. I would also shoot, you know, if we had like a comfortable lead and I was extremely confident and we were heading in to the end stretch. But I would rather do it with town input. The town's collective reads are typically better than my own.
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Okay, here's I think a related question (mostly) for Robz. What do you think of No-lynching?
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Okay, here's I think a related question (mostly) for Robz. What do you think of No-lynching?
For Day 1, most likely against, given this setup. I would listen to a counter-argument, but it seems to be that No Lynch deprives us of necessary information. Also, having an even number of players is undesirable.
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Hmm, stupid and stubborn town mistakes have historically been a great way to become obvtown.. I wonder if Robz is scum and banking on that.
Note, I'm not saying I know if a vig should shoot early or not. I'm saying two obviously savvy players are arguing opposite viewpoints, so it seems to me it cant really be as clear cut as Robz is making it seem. He isnt even offering any good arguments at all ("vigs have always shot town this far!" is not a good argument), he is just insisting he is right and that town should listen to him. I know robz says he isnt good in theory or theory talk, but I don't like his approach here.
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Okay, here's I think a related question (mostly) for Robz. What do you think of No-lynching?
For Day 1, most likely against, given this setup. I would listen to a counter-argument, but it seems to be that No Lynch deprives us of necessary information. Also, having an even number of players is undesirable.
What I mean is, are you against Vigging because more semi-random killing is bad for Town, or do you think that Vigging is more likely to hit Town than voting is?
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It should be more random. A lynch is the decision of the majority of the players. A vig shot is the decision of one player.
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I disagree with everything theorel just said.
He may be right on the statistics of vig shots, but we have real history to go off, too. And in real history, vig's have been disastrous for town. Yuma shot the town's IC before the IC came forward in M-VIII, changing a likely town win into a scum win. Morgrim's shot sabotaged a likely town victory in M-IX, delivering the game to the Serial Killer. In M-XII, ashersky's shot did the maximum amount of damage, by shooting the person that the town Hider was hiding behind, killing them both.
So, no, I will stand firm here, and insist that town Vigs absolutely do NOT fire on Night 1. I don't want them firing at all without town input. Vigs are for the endgame, when we are more informed and possibly need to take lucky shots to win. Do not fire now. Can people back me up here?
He is also wrong about the mafia deciding whether or not to kill raerae. Either the scum will decide they would rather take a shot at possibly more dangerous PRs, and not shoot her, or they will want to take out the IC, and they will shoot her. I think it will have very little to do with who she is. Also, I'm much more confident in my ability to read newbies--who haven't learned how to fool me yet--than my ability to read the experts.
Vote:theorel for uncharacteristically bad analysis.
Couple errors: in XII, ashersky shot cayvie. Eevee hid behind ashersky. So, scum got the hider kill there, ash just shot a VT. If ash had not shot, we would have had an even number of players, had the same number of days to lose. We would have had cayvie's analysis, which probably would have helped, but we would have needed an extra vote to lynch. Of all the things that could be cited for losing us that game, ashersky's shot is not one of them.
yuma's NK in VIII was a mistake, but I hashed out reasons for it there. Actually, I think he should have shot after the no-lynch day1, probably to kill Lekkit or Insomniac for useful information moving into day2. (i.e. shooting earlier would have been better here)
I didn't follow IX, but Morgrim should never be in charge of a kill based on his reads :P
Also, in IX and VIII vig shot LATE. So arguing that early vig is bad because it really hurt the games where he shot late is faulty. And in XII, the vig managed to maintain parity, which I maintain actually could have helped us.
Here's the thing though, and it really is all that matters (IMO): (Note: this only applies to fulltime vig, one-shot vig is a totally different case)
If a vig shoots night 1 and 2, and town lynches both days, we get 4 kills out of 6 that might hit scum. If vig refrains from shooting then by day4 we've had 3 of 6 kills that might hit scum.
So, by shooting the vig trades 1 lynch for 2 vig-kills. This means that unless the vig is less than half as likely to hit scum as the lynch, he should shoot. I know day1 lynch (like the vig shot according to Axxle) is less likely than random to hit scum. But I'm not sure how day2/3 lynches are. Since shooting trades the day3 lynch for 2 NKs, those are the percentages to compare. If vig is in fact less than half as likely to hit scum, then I'd agree that he shouldn't shoot. Were I the vig, I would definitely shoot.
Sorry Robz, you've admitted to being worse at theory than me before. Saying my analysis is bad just because you disagree with it doesn't really hold water.
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Back from V/LA, and need to catch up on this game, but a few things I can respond to now:
Robz, Cuzz and Frisk:
This game is awfully similar to MXII which didn't go very well for town. I viewed it from a mod's point of view. But what do you think went so wrong in that game. My two take aways from it were, lynch scummy lurkers and scum bussing can be very beneficial. But what do you think down did or didn't do that was detrimental to town--and that we shouldn't do in this game?
At least no one claimed VT in the pre-game.
Several things went wrong in that game. We had 4 dead townies by the beginning of D2, which was fabulously unlucky. I doctored two people at night who died anyway. The massclaim helped scum far more than town by directing all night actions. I was certain joth was scum. Frisk was certain Grujah was town. Robz was certain I was scum and Insomniac was town. We failed to lynch lurkers. I would have been more useful to town dead than alive so I maybe should have self-voted even though I hate that. And, of course, when scum wins, all anyone can talk about is who screwed up and how town lost the game, but scum (especially Insomniac) played very well.
Anyway, main takeaway for me is the massclaim. This setup is so similar to MXII and the massclaim was objectively awful for town there. Theory talk is ok here, especially in terms of figuring out whether or not there's a serial killer, but we have to be very careful of "oh if only so and so would claim, then we'd know this part of the setup!" type talk. That way lies madness.
On another topic, I don't like Robz's comment about raerae being IC. I kinda see his point, but saying so out loud accomplishes nothing pro-town and only serves to make a new player feel bad. Though fortunately it looks like she understands it's not personal.
Wrt Vig shooting, I'd say shoot on a strong scum read, and hold off otherwise. Be very wary of taking direction from someone you don't have a town read on.
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@Theorel
On XII: Okay, you're right about who killed who. I still say it was majorly bad for town. Having fewer town-aligned players alive is never good for town.
On VIII and IX: Sure, shooting earlier would have been better than shooting the IC late in the game in VIII. But this exactly underscores my point: The Vigilantes have historically been terrible at making judgment calls; so bad, I would rather just neutralize them by having them do nothing--unless specifically instructed otherwise by the town.
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Hmm, stupid and stubborn town mistakes have historically been a great way to become obvtown.. I wonder if Robz is scum and banking on that.
Note, I'm not saying I know if a vig should shoot early or not. I'm saying two obviously savvy players are arguing opposite viewpoints, so it seems to me it cant really be as clear cut as Robz is making it seem. He isnt even offering any good arguments at all ("vigs have always shot town this far!" is not a good argument), he is just insisting he is right and that town should listen to him. I know robz says he isnt good in theory or theory talk, but I don't like his approach here.
Because the antics of a vigilante have damaged the town a few too many times by now for me to sit back and say, "Whatever, use your best judgment!" Your best judgment probably sucks, and we know this by now.
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Robz, I'd like to hear your response to the argument that Vigging increases the density of kills that "could" be scum.
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Robz, I'd like to hear your response to the argument that Vigging increases the density of kills that "could" be scum.
It does do that. But moreso, it increases the number of kills that will land on town... and possibly on important power roles like the Cop or Doctor.
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I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
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I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
It's not a controversial opinion. I didn't think it was, at least. My understanding was that everyone who had actually played with a vigilante pretty much agreed that they should just stop shooting. But maybe it was just me and Frisk (who unfortunately isn't here).
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There are stats on mafiascum saying that the vig targets with less acurracy than random. That said it depends on the player and his/her reads. And why are you guys assuming a vig anyway?
Has anybody addressed this yet/can somebody? It seems like we just have a lot of talky talk back and forth about vigs with no compromise in sight and no real reason why we haven't moved on to something more substantial.
Also, I have thoughts and words on me being the IC and the views on that but I'm on my phone and this screen and keyboard are too small for me to function so I'll write those up later.
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I agree that there's probably zero reason to keep discussing this. Except that IF there is a Vig, I don't want him to shoot tonight. But, fine.
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What do you suggest we discuss? It's not really my speciality to keep a conversation going. Especially not when there's hardly anything to look at.
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Vote:theorel for uncharacteristically bad analysis.
Vote: Robz for uncharacteristically bad voting.
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It has come to my attention that there was a small error in the implementation of the C9++ setup. I am discussing with ashersky what, if anything, should be done to rectify the error, and ashersky will make an announcement when we've resolved it. I don't think it's gamebreaking, but it might confuse late-game role analysis if players are left unaware of it.
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It has come to my attention that there was a small error in the implementation of the C9++ setup. I am discussing with ashersky what, if anything, should be done to rectify the error, and ashersky will make an announcement when we've resolved it. I don't think it's gamebreaking, but it might confuse late-game role analysis if players are left unaware of it.
Oh.
Are you sure it's not game-breaking? I'm not saying we should restart the game, but please consider telling us the exact mistake.
Please also talk to Voltgloss about this, who has experience running this setup.
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It has come to my attention that there was a small error in the implementation of the C9++ setup. I am discussing with ashersky what, if anything, should be done to rectify the error, and ashersky will make an announcement when we've resolved it. I don't think it's gamebreaking, but it might confuse late-game role analysis if players are left unaware of it.
Oh.
Are you sure it's not game-breaking? I'm not saying we should restart the game, but please consider telling us the exact mistake.
Please also talk to Voltgloss about this, who has experience running this setup.
agreed, i would not be opposed to a complete restart, if the setup turns out to be unsolveable (as in, not a valid c9++ setup)
hi dawn :)
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It has come to my attention that there was a small error in the implementation of the C9++ setup. I am discussing with ashersky what, if anything, should be done to rectify the error, and ashersky will make an announcement when we've resolved it. I don't think it's gamebreaking, but it might confuse late-game role analysis if players are left unaware of it.
Oh.
Are you sure it's not game-breaking? I'm not saying we should restart the game, but please consider telling us the exact mistake.
Please also talk to Voltgloss about this, who has experience running this setup.
I do not believe it's gamebreaking, but ashersky will have to make the final decision. I'm bringing Volt in on the conversation to advise also.
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The game has not been going on for very long, I wouldn't be opposed to a game restart if a C9++ setup isn't viable and you can't tell us what the mistake was.
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
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I can help with neutral opinion as well if needed
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It was a conscious decision to limit the maximum day length to three human weeks. That's all.
"three HU-MAN weeks"
vote: ashersky, obv-alien
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
I would 2nd that if our opinions are taken into account with this decision.
Also, hi cayvie!
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It was a conscious decision to limit the maximum day length to three human weeks. That's all.
"three HU-MAN weeks"
vote: ashersky, obv-alien
Ashersky is obviously a demon, aliens aren't real.
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Restarting would be kind of annoying, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. We've been going for like what, 1 day?
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I think we did a restart for MI which went ok.
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I've reviewed the issue, and in my opinion it is rectifiable without any need for restart.
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I've reviewed the issue, and in my opinion it is rectifiable without any need for restart.
cool
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I've reviewed the issue, and in my opinion it is rectifiable without any need for restart.
warm
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There was an error in the original implementation, but it is now resolved. The full resolution of the problem will be made clear at the end of the game, but for now, all we can say is that we are playing a valid implementation of C9++. No players' alignments were changed.
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Glad that's cleared up.
Now for some actual playing of the game, I'd like to draw attention to this:
If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
vote: robz the only person a vig can trust is confirmed town and themselves. Leaving when to use a vig up to town allows them to be potentially manipulated by scum. If I were vig I would ignore all of the posts regarding vigging and just do whatever I felt was best. From my own personal experience that would be to not shoot earlier. But that is me and a vig can't know that I am town, so can't trust my opinion on the matter.
unvote
that didn't deserve a vote
Yuma votes and almost immediately unvotes Robz very early in the game, when it's practically RVS. Town is usually pretty vote-happy this at this stage, but it seems like yuma is really concerned about drawing too much attention to himself here. As if he doesn't want to really be the one to pull us all the way out of RVS and have his actions scrutinized too closely.
This is worth a Vote: yuma for me.
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Glad that's cleared up.
Now for some actual playing of the game, I'd like to draw attention to this:
If you remember back to MVIII I only shot because I thought for sure that I was going to be the night kill. I also felt that I had a pretty solid scum read on Eevee. Obviously that was wrong. I don't know if there is a best way to use vigs. The only time it was successful that I remember was in MV when Frisk used it N2--but that was the last night it could be used--on me to win the game. (Although he didn't know if he had the vig power for sure or not if I remember right).
Mostly I don't think any direction of the vig is appropriate. I suggest to the vig, if there is one, to do some independent research, look at their own reads, see how strong you think they actually are, compare them to the reads of other players--especially confirmed scum and confirmed town--and then make a decision accordingly on your own.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No.
vote: robz the only person a vig can trust is confirmed town and themselves. Leaving when to use a vig up to town allows them to be potentially manipulated by scum. If I were vig I would ignore all of the posts regarding vigging and just do whatever I felt was best. From my own personal experience that would be to not shoot earlier. But that is me and a vig can't know that I am town, so can't trust my opinion on the matter.
unvote
that didn't deserve a vote
Yuma votes and almost immediately unvotes Robz very early in the game, when it's practically RVS. Town is usually pretty vote-happy this at this stage, but it seems like yuma is really concerned about drawing too much attention to himself here. As if he doesn't want to really be the one to pull us all the way out of RVS and have his actions scrutinized too closely.
This is worth a Vote: yuma for me.
not wanting to draw attention by writing another post? That logic doesn't work.
this looks like scum trying to build a case out of something very very minor vote: cuzz
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Yuma votes and almost immediately unvotes Robz very early in the game, when it's practically RVS. Town is usually pretty vote-happy this at this stage, but it seems like yuma is really concerned about drawing too much attention to himself here. As if he doesn't want to really be the one to pull us all the way out of RVS and have his actions scrutinized too closely.
This is worth a Vote: yuma for me.
not wanting to draw attention by writing another post? That logic doesn't work.
this looks like scum trying to build a case out of something very very minor vote: cuzz
[/quote]
I don't think it's "very very" minor, though of course I don't have major scumreads or really detailed cases at the moment.
The point is you seemed to be acting much more cautious than I would expect town to during such an early part of the game.
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i have a pretty strong town read on robz. nothing on anyone else atm.
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Messed up quote and self-voted haha.
Vote: yuma
Yuma votes and almost immediately unvotes Robz very early in the game, when it's practically RVS. Town is usually pretty vote-happy this at this stage, but it seems like yuma is really concerned about drawing too much attention to himself here. As if he doesn't want to really be the one to pull us all the way out of RVS and have his actions scrutinized too closely.
This is worth a Vote: yuma for me.
not wanting to draw attention by writing another post? That logic doesn't work.
this looks like scum trying to build a case out of something very very minor vote: cuzz
I don't think it's "very very" minor, though of course I don't have major scumreads or really detailed cases at the moment.
The point is you seemed to be acting much more cautious than I would expect town to during such an early part of the game.
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very cautious yuma wouldn't have put a vote on Robz in the first place (self-meta argument, I know)
slightly cautious yuma would have put down the vote and left it and then unvoted a little while later
not that I am not cautious right now. I am always cautious. It is who I am town or scum.
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There was an error in the original implementation, but it is now resolved. The full resolution of the problem will be made clear at the end of the game, but for now, all we can say is that we are playing a valid implementation of C9++. No players' alignments were changed.
thank you to Jorbles and Voltgloss for the quick fix and catch. I concur fully and nothing affects the game as it is being played.
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Robz, Cuzz and Frisk:
This game is awfully similar to MXII which didn't go very well for town. I viewed it from a mod's point of view. But what do you think went so wrong in that game. My two take aways from it were, lynch scummy lurkers and scum bussing can be very beneficial. But what do you think down did or didn't do that was detrimental to town--and that we shouldn't do in this game?
At least no one claimed VT in the pre-game.
Well, it's simple. We lost that game because of Frisk.
I think that's true of every game that I've lost.
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i was thinking about it, and i can't think of a way that it is worthwhile to anyone at all to try to figure out what the setup mistake was.
so i guess i'll stop thinking about it.
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Important: Vigilantes should NOT shoot. Just don't do it.
Interesting that the IC is a totally new player. This is probably unfortunate; I would much rather have IC status land on Frisk or Eevee or something. Oh well.
I would have liked to be an IC.
Can't talk about ongoing games, but it's overrated!
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Ok, so we're on again? Good stuff. In an attempt to not be lurky and terrible, I have composed my thoughts below. They may be terrible thoughts but hey, trial and error, right?
From what I understand, basically two schools of thought have been introduced regarding a super newbie being the IC. Correct me if I'm making stuff up.
1. It's awful because you vets don't know me and I don't know you so any reads I get on people are going to be solely based on play during this game only which would make me a bad sounding-board if you wanted to talk about play in previous games.
2. It's not the worst thing in the world because scum would possibly consider killing somebody more dangerous than the chick who doesn't know anything about anybody.
Of course I'm going to side with 2 because, well, I don't want to die. I'm interested though, for you folk who have played 1.2 million games, is an IC always your first kill as mafia or would there be a reason to keep one around?
And enough of that for now. I’m thinking we might still be in RVS (at least a little) so maybe I can’t read too much into this but Cuzz’s vote for Yuma doesn’t sit warm and fuzzy with me. I read yuma’s vote and quick unvote fro robz as a bad attempt at a joke. Maybe those of you who know yuma better could shed some light on this?
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No space, oops, Vote: Theorel
I can't remember which game it was, but I thought that someone showed that via simulation, vig killing was generally pro town? (Despite its terrible history here... so far only Galz has hit scum?)
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No space, oops, Vote: Theorel
I can't remember which game it was, but I thought that someone showed that via simulation, vig killing was generally pro town? (Despite its terrible history here... so far only Galz has hit scum?)
morgrim and grujah also hit scum in IX
but there were a lot of vigs in that game
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
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I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
It's not a controversial opinion. I didn't think it was, at least. My understanding was that everyone who had actually played with a vigilante pretty much agreed that they should just stop shooting. But maybe it was just me and Frisk (who unfortunately isn't here).
I don't think anyone on pro / anti vig needs to be voted at this point. Vigs are scary for scum because they are kills that can't be controlled / influenced, and they are scary for town because they are more likely to hit town than scum.
However, the same is true of voting, and at least the vig won't shoot himself. (Is morgrim in this game?)
If I was the vig, I'd be tempted to shoot based on the analysis from whatever that game was, and I'd probably want to simulate it out. However, I'd be afraid, because I have been totally convinced that people are scum and been wrong. E.g. Joth in MXII.
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
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i have a pretty strong town read on robz. nothing on anyone else atm.
I'm responding to posts one at a time. What do you think of my last post?
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
vote: eevee
trying to out the doc
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
vote: eevee
trying to out the doc
This post makes no sense.
Vote: cayvie
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
vote: eevee
trying to out the doc
hmm, how do you figure?
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because one reason, maybe the biggest reason, scum would avoid killing raerae n1 is that raerae is an obvious target for any doc protections.
and i suspect you were hoping someone would bring that up.
and when there's conversation about doc protection, it can become possible to determine who the doc is.
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
Well, damn. I'll do what I can to make my time count then. Cayvie, trying to out the doctor only exposes that person to scum, right? Doesn't town benefit from keeping that particular role all locked up and secret like?
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
Well, damn. I'll do what I can to make my time count then. Cayvie, trying to out the doctor only exposes that person to scum, right? Doesn't town benefit from keeping that particular role all locked up and secret like?
this is why i am voting eevee
sorry,
when i said "trying to out the doctor", what i was saying was
"i think eevee is trying to out the doctor with this post"
not
"i am trying to out the doctor by voting eevee"
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I wasn't, but that explanation does make sense.
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raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
Well, damn. I'll do what I can to make my time count then. Cayvie, trying to out the doctor only exposes that person to scum, right? Doesn't town benefit from keeping that particular role all locked up and secret like?
this is why i am voting eevee
sorry,
when i said "trying to out the doctor", what i was saying was
"i think eevee is trying to out the doctor with this post"
not
"i am trying to out the doctor by voting eevee"
How so? All I see was maybe him directing the potential doctor to protect raerae, as they should.
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ugh i've already screwed this up
see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.
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you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
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you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
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Robz explicitly mentions "cop or doctor" twice, once in the context of them being powerful roles that newbies should have, and again in the context that the vig might hit them. Why didn't you vote him for that? Those and your post make it much more likely to generate doc discussion than Eevee's post.
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Robz explicitly mentions "cop or doctor" twice, once in the context of them being powerful roles that newbies should have, and again in the context that the vig might hit them. Why didn't you vote him for that? Those and your post make it much more likely to generate doc discussion than Eevee's post.
idk, i didn't see any unstated intentions behind robz's posts.
and i know, i messed up in that respect. i considered just voting eevee with no explanation, but i thought that would be even worse.
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I don't agree with your reasons, but I don't think it was from scum.
Unvote
Vote: Robz
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
This is actually a pretty good reason to vote for me. I salute Frisk for catching it.
It's also something I would have obviously self-filtered if I were scum.
I do not think Eevee was trying to out the Doctor, because Eevee isn't like that.
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
This is actually a pretty good reason to vote for me. I salute Frisk for catching it.
It's also something I would have obviously self-filtered if I were scum.
I do not think Eevee was trying to out the Doctor, because Eevee isn't like that.
When I read that, I thought "man, if I was scum, I would NEVER say something like that, so Robz is probably town..", but I didn't post it because I'm starting to realize I have a bias in WISHING certain people are town and letting that affect my reads.
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I absolutely have said I prefer playing as scum. I do prefer playing as scum. Again, this was a good catch. I would lynch someone else for less.
Truly though, I just didn't feel like restarting. Getting over the early game hump is like no fun for me, I hate RVS. And I've said that before, too!
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Closed setups in a newbie game isn't fun either.
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Closed setups in a newbie game isn't fun either.
It is technically semi-open. It is also completely fun.
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Closed setups in a newbie game isn't fun either.
yeah, that's true, it is a newbie game
i think i'm going to make a conscious effort to keep the unexplained references to other games on here to a minimum, and provide links at a minimum.
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FYI, I plan to prod at the 48 hour mark, if needed.
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Closed setups in a newbie game isn't fun either.
It is technically semi-open. It is also completely fun.
it would have been closed if you didn't reset amd kept the mistake in is what i was getting at. I agree semi open is fun!
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super-early postcounts!
Robz888: 26
Axxle: 18
cayvie: 13
yuma: 12
Eevee: 8
Captain_Frisk: 7
raerae: 7
Jimmmmm: 5
Cuzz: 4
theorel: 3
Lekkit: 3
Watno: 2
Abra655: 2
theorel has the least lurky 3 posts ever
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Robz is taking heat early, which is pretty normal for Robz. I intended to unvote him earlier, but apparently forgot, anyways I'll unvote now since I'm not really comfortable with my vote there.
As far as the set-up error goes, my guess is that they made a mistake in some step of the randomization (like leaving scum players in the pool when determining power roles for instance, swapping roles around the number ranges, or messing up the ranges). We don't know what the error was, but based on the conversation it COULD have resulted in an invalid C9++ set-up, but didn't. This suggests to me that the power role randomization was a bit off. What we know is that the end result is a valid C9++ set-up. So, I personally am going to assume that probability-based analysis on role existence has the potential to be flawed due to the error, unless I am told otherwise. So I will not argue: "he claimed doctor, but there's only a 5% chance of doctor given other information so I'm doubting the claim". Only binary, i.e. "there cannot be 2 1-shot vigs, so the person claiming 1-shot vig after a 1-shot vig has already died is obviously lying and needs to be lynched".
Now other stuff:
@Frisk: I think the only simulations we've run were by me in VIII about the 2-shot vig. And so in a uniform-random decision-making town the 2-shot vig improved win-% by about 10% (if I remember). 1-shot vig reduced win-% by about 10% I think also (this was the result of changing the parity). SO, a 1-shot vig should only shoot if we have other parity changes (from i.e. a doctor or SK or nolynch). I think this is one of those situations where Robz disagrees in the same fashion as Galzria did. 1 more town player helps town if it changes the parity to odd, but doesn't if it changes the parity to even. Therefore I would rather have 1 extra town-directed kill than have 1 extra town player hanging around day2. This is a difference of opinion, and I recognize that though, ultimately the vig needs to decide where they stand on it.
I'm going to Vote: Axxle because I find his behavior thus far somewhat suspicious. He seems to be trying to generate suspicions and inflame arguments.
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Also, since there are votes flying everywhere:
Unofficial Vote Count
Robz (3): watno, Axxle, Frisk
Theorel (1): Robz
Yuma (1): Cuzz
Cuzz (1): Yuma
Eevee (1): Cayvie
Axxle (1): Theorel
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I like a voter for robz, but thats just because no one will vote for him in another game, Right now I'm getting absolute null reads from everyone, I've got a crazy day but I'll try to do an in depth reread and post some actual opinions tomorrow.
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I actually agree with Frisk's reasoning on Robz below:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
I sort of noticed this and thought maybe that bringing it up was outside the spirit of the game but it's stupid not to use the information we have.
Robz's congratulatory response seems a bit like the scummy kind of buddying too, and mostly unlike his town response to votes.
Vote: Robz
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Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
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I'm going to Vote: Axxle because I find his behavior thus far somewhat suspicious. He seems to be trying to generate suspicions and inflame arguments.
What are you talking about in particular?
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Rereading I'm less sure, but it felt like he was trying to provoke fights with his votes here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg144970#msg144970) and here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg145421#msg145421).
Then combined with this post,
Robz explicitly mentions "cop or doctor" twice, once in the context of them being powerful roles that newbies should have, and again in the context that the vig might hit them. Why didn't you vote him for that? Those and your post make it much more likely to generate doc discussion than Eevee's post.
On reread, it seems like he may have just been terse, and then I read that post being already mildly suspicious which warped my reading of it.
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Rereading my own post, I was unclear: to clarify it felt like he was trying to provoke other players into fighting amongst themselves, not provoking them to fight with him.
His votes were in response to votes on other players (on the voter), which makes it seem like he's trying to encourage the votee to OMGUS. Reading the post I quoted from that perspective, it felt like he was trying to get cayvie to fight with Robz also...but as I said rereading with a different mindset (i.e. looking for proof) significantly weakens that feeling...making me believe it had more to do with bias than anything else.
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I think trying to provoke fights is a good thing. People fighting are way more likely to say something they shouldn't have said as scum.
@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?
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My strong recommendations, as an outsider with knowledge of the setup (and as a mod who ran C9++ before), are:
1. for all players to proceed based on the gamestate being a valid C9++ setup - which it is;
2. for players to NOT try to take the "issue" into account when conducting analysis;
3. for players to NOT try to get more information from the mods about the "issue"; and
4. for the mods to NOT divulge any further information about the "issue" until after the game is complete.
The game should not be about the "issue." The game should be about the game itself. The mods have confirmed that (1) the gamestate is a valid C9++ setup; and (2) no players' alignments have changed since gamestart. In my view, nothing further needs to be said, nor should be said, on the matter.
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Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
Well, here goes some more buddying, but that's a genius suggestion. Seriously impressive. Not the case though, sadly.
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@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?
The mods have confirmed that (1) the gamestate is a valid C9++ setup; and (2) no players' alignments have changed since gamestart. In my view, nothing further needs to be said, nor should be said, on the matter.
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@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?
The mods have confirmed that (1) the gamestate is a valid C9++ setup; and (2) no players' alignments have changed since gamestart. In my view, nothing further needs to be said, nor should be said, on the matter.
Official, final word on the matter, is the quote from Voltgloss. Emphasis on the word "valid" in that quote. This game, regardless of the error, is a valid, normal C9++ game. Just play it and have fun!
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Galzria has subbed in for Watno.
Thank you.
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Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
Well, here goes some more buddying, but that's a genius suggestion. Seriously impressive. Not the case though, sadly.
I feel very buddied.
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I wanna apologize for leaving you again so soon, but I didn't properly think before replacing in and missed the fact that my availability would be severly limited during the later game days due to Christmas and stuff.
(I hope you are okay with me posting this, ashersky)
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Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
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Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
Burninating the countryside: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23110
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Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
Burninating the countryside: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23110
^ proof vigs can do well.
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Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
Burninating the countryside: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23110
^ proof vigs can do well.
Also, gloating.
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Galzria has subbed in for Watno.
Thank you.
Wat? No!
See what I did there?
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Galzria has subbed in for Watno.
Thank you.
Wat? No!
See what I did there?
Ji? Mmmmm!
... Doesn't work as well...
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Vote Count 1.3
theorel (1): Robz888
Robz888 (4): Watno, Captain_Frisk, Axxle, Cuzz {L-3}
Cuzz (1): yuma
Eevee (1): cayvie
Axxle (1): theorel
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Eevee, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Woah there.
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Unvote
Vig's should not shoot under any circumstances, until there's absolute necessity for them to do so. They are nothing but a plague on the town.
That said, I don't give Robz much credit for standing firm on the issue. It's something that he and I both feel strongly about. How many games has town won when a Vig shot? The only one that comes to mind is my shot in M-VI - which happened to coincide with the SK shot anyway so was moot (although my other two choices, Theorel and Robz, were both scum that game as well).
Robz, being the most vocal, stands out the most in my reread.
First, his very quick, early vote is extremely uncharacteristic of him. Especially because he didn't cast it over what he would classify as a scummy read, but instead over someone disagreeing with him. Robz - do you really think that Theorel is scum?
Second, the "he likes playing scum" argument. I don't think that's all that solid of a case. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I too enjoy playing scum more. I still would have advocated not restarting if possible. RVS sucks, and getting past it can often times be a real challenge. To do it twice in one game? No thank you. Besides, in order to get the roles you like playing, you have to play the roles you don't like.
Third, Robz "buddying" - I believe it was Cuzz who said that it seemed more a scum Robz thing to say "Wow, great point, just not true this time" - and you're right that it used to be that way. Buddying Robz used to equal scummy Robz every time. Now it's a bit more null. Take RMM3 for example, where as the town thief, his response to those saying he had stolen the Ice Cream was "I didn't, but I absolutely see why you think that I did it, and in your shoes I would be voting me as well". I know Robz went through a long streak of being lynched or NK'd on the first day, and he had a long talk with Volt about what he was doing wrong. Since then I've noticed a few small changes. First, he's appearing more care-free - by pushing less solid cases or weaker ideas - and second by being a lot less confrontational. The "yeah, you're probably right" response is becoming much more commonplace.
In regards to this game, and his overall persona, there are enough things that stick out that leave me questioning his townitude. However, those aren't my biggest concerns at this point. While Robz is actively "slightly-scummy", there are others who are far, far less active to date, and the lack of participation stands out much more severely to me than Robz participation does at this time.
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Oh, and Hi.
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The vote on Theorel: I wanted to dramatize my opposition to his pro-Vig policies, so I added a vote.
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And your vote is still there.
I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?
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And your vote is still there.
I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?
I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.
And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.
Unvote
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It's become that there are 2 RVS stages at the beginning of every game: the Random Voting Stage, and then the Robz Voting Stage, where everybody votes for Robz.
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Rereading my own post, I was unclear: to clarify it felt like he was trying to provoke other players into fighting amongst themselves, not provoking them to fight with him.
His votes were in response to votes on other players (on the voter), which makes it seem like he's trying to encourage the votee to OMGUS. Reading the post I quoted from that perspective, it felt like he was trying to get cayvie to fight with Robz also...but as I said rereading with a different mindset (i.e. looking for proof) significantly weakens that feeling...making me believe it had more to do with bias than anything else.
I was being terse because I usually am. I was a bit harsher than usual since fights and seeing others prodding for information from me and others helps me develop reads.
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And your vote is still there.
I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?
I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.
And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.
Unvote
Have you developed any scummy reads?
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You seem more provoking than usual.
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Is that scummy?
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And are you dodging the question? It's a legitimate one.
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Is that scummy?
I think so.
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And are you dodging the question? It's a legitimate one.
Dodging questions? I've done nothing but answer questions since this thread started up.
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Have you developed any scummy reads?
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Have you developed any scummy reads?
Well before my line of questioning, obv.
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Watno.
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Watno.
Galz?
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Watno.
Galz?
Hmm, interesting.
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Watno.
Galz?
Hmm, interesting.
What do you mean?
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Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Watno.
Has your read changed since then?
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Vote Count 1.4
Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (1): yuma
Eevee (1): cayvie
Axxle (1): theorel
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Eevee, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
oh i'm going to like playing with you
this is exactly the type of theory i like :)
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Here are the four posts that I made before becoming "me". Robz named Watno (after much teeth pulling by Axxle to put forth a name), but didn't offer up any reason for his suspicion.
Directly to Axxle's question and point, Robz said he didn't want to restart the game because he was already building reads. That particular quote was made prior to the last Watno quote, so in truth if Watno was his biggest scum read, it was based on only the first three quotes only.
Additionally, I find it interesting that Robz would be willing to place his vote on Theorel over a disagreement, admitting that he didn't, and doesn't, find Theorel himself scummy - yet it took so long to unvote, and further, took quite a time to hey him to say who his actual scum reads are on - although he's not voting those reads.
It just doesn't feel all that genuine. Feels like he grabbed a name and threw it out there.
I'm up.
I think we shouldn't be discussing the power role distribution now, since the probablities of stuff being in are different for those who have a power role.
I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
I think trying to provoke fights is a good thing. People fighting are way more likely to say something they shouldn't have said as scum.
@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?
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Here are the four posts that I made before becoming "me". Robz named Watno (after much teeth pulling by Axxle to put forth a name), but didn't offer up any reason for his suspicion.
Directly to Axxle's question and point, Robz said he didn't want to restart the game because he was already building reads. That particular quote was made prior to the last Watno quote, so in truth if Watno was his biggest scum read, it was based on only the first three quotes only.
Additionally, I find it interesting that Robz would be willing to place his vote on Theorel over a disagreement, admitting that he didn't, and doesn't, find Theorel himself scummy - yet it took so long to unvote, and further, took quite a time to hey him to say who his actual scum reads are on - although he's not voting those reads.
It just doesn't feel all that genuine. Feels like he grabbed a name and threw it out there.
I agree with most of this. I also take issue with the quote below. Do people really forget who their vote is on? It's just more confusing than anything.
And your vote is still there.
I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?
I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.
And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.
Unvote
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i don't unvote, usually; i frequently forget who i'm voting for if i didn't place it recently.
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Robz's post that Axxle quotes is the 150th post of the game. Actually it is more like the ~75 of the game because the first post of game start was post 75.
So I don't really think it is that far fetched for someone with only 4 posts to be a scum read. However, I do think it is far fetched to believe that someone could have a strong scum read on any one individual. But perhaps Robz wasn't implying a strong read... but instead was just providing an answer to axxle's consistent questioning.
I don't know. I am not Robz. But I haven't found him to be scummy this game.
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First, sorry, I accidentally wrote a book.
Second, here it is:
Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
oh i'm going to like playing with you
this is exactly the type of theory i like :)
I totally agree with cayvie, this is super interesting. Also interesting is robz' offhanded response to the accusation. All game robz has been telling us he's town, telling us "the best" way to play, and, dare I say, being real warm and fuzzy. In his first response to me (post #92) he first tells me he’s super experienced (damn, boy) and then answers my question all the while insinuating he’s town. The part that felt most awkward to me was this:
Since you are the Innocent Child I can't really bounce my thoughts on whether people are playing to their town or scum "meta" off on you, because you don't know--you've never played with these people.
In post #98 he advocates lynching all lurkers and goes on to have the highest post count thereby keeping himself safe from lynch, at least for lurking. (I understand this is a popular idea but I don’t know that it really holds water anymore. More on that later if necessary/requested.)
The fish for a cop or doctor in #100 has been discussed by…dang, a bunch of you? But Robz response to being called out for it is borderline cocky and he again all but says “I’m town! I’m town!” by this (#192):
This is actually a pretty good reason to vote for me. I salute Frisk for catching it.
It's also something I would have obviously self-filtered if I were scum.
And again! Warm, fuzzy, semi-condescending, look-how-town-I-am Robz.
Well, here goes some more buddying, but that's a genius suggestion. Seriously impressive. Not the case though, sadly.
All that horrible quoting aside, I have to put what faith I can into Galzria’s post (#225) about how that was old scum Robz, not new-scum Robz. I am not ready to vote but I am looking longingly at that Robz wagon.
I think it would be AMAZING to hear words from people like Lekkit and Abra…speak up, boys.
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has eevee been vla?
eevee is normally toward the top of the post count list and sure wasn't in cayvie's list in post 200 and hasn't posted since then.
vote: eevee
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nah, just day 1 silliness. i'll participate by vote: Galzria. someone got to end the RVS.
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Vote: Eevee We're clearly out of RVS
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Vote Count 1.5
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, Cuzz
Eevee (3): cayvie, yuma, Axxle
Axxle (1): theorel
Galzria (1): Eevee
Not Voting (6): Abra655, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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@raerae: In every case I can think of when someone has been accused of over-emphasizing their town-itude (i.e. when they've been accuse of saying "I'm town!"), they've been town. The case that immediately comes to mind is jo in MIV (long time ago). Or if you consider the VT claim to be the most egregious form of this, then it's happened in several games. In all cases they've been town. It just feels to me like this is an accusation often leveled, and often misplaced. I would like to offer useful positive advice at this point, i.e. "things to look out for", but I'm not sure I know what those things are.
While votes have been building pretty fast, I think we should do a soft deadline for this game. Maybe next Wednesday?
Also, Vote: Lekkit. Say something. People of particular interest are Robz and Eevee. A general early-reads of everyone list would be great. How do you think we can catch scum? I know you feel like you've got nothing to say, but just try to say something. Pick a player you think needs more attention and write a book on them.
Also would be nice to hear from Abra, looks like he usually posts later in the evening though.
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While votes have been building pretty fast, I think we should do a soft deadline for this game. Maybe next Wednesday?
if we are going to do a soft deadline then it needs to be one with serious repercussions, similar to the one that I pushed in MXI. That is that if I feel people are not participating or are only trying to derail wagons then we turn on them with vengeance. A deadline w/o a penalty means nothing. I personally would prefer a deadline before the weekend as I will be VLA starting Monday, but we obviously can't dictate a game around my schedule.
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I find discussion of soft deadlines tend to take up more time than the soft deadlines save.
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And that's all I have to say about that.
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I'm amenable to the usage of a soft-deadline. It's worked quite well at least once, and it keeps everybody honest by forcing out opinions, stances and votes.
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sorry axxle I am going to discuss this... but I think this is a role that our friendly Innocent Child could fulfill. Leave it up to raerae to determine when the soft deadline is, how to implement it, and what the penalty will be for non-participation?
And now I am done discussing it... I will leave it to raerae to decide, if rarerae chooses to take on this responsibility.
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Sure. That works. As long as we have an arbitrator that has the final word so we aren't just endlessly discussing it.
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awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
Eevee why did you vote Galz? What are your thoughts thus far in this game? What is your read on me?
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Oh, I should probably comment on the Eevee thing that's started up. Hmmm...I actually like the case on Eevee right now. Not only has he posted little, but his posts sound off. I'm having difficulty expressing why, and when I started to type something up, I was just paraphrasing all his posts.
I'll hit one example:
When I read that, I thought "man, if I was scum, I would NEVER say something like that, so Robz is probably town..", but I didn't post it because I'm starting to realize I have a bias in WISHING certain people are town and letting that affect my reads.
This just reads to me like: I was going to post that, but didn't want to reinforce a town image of Robz. I mean it's the sort of thing I think when I'm scum. I wouldn't say that I thought it later, because I'd feel like it would sound scummy, so when Eevee says it, it *surprise* sounds scummy...
Let's see scumScore for this game should start at a base of around 3/13 ~ 25%. So I'd say Eevee's score is around a 30 to me at this point. I'd like to hear more and re-evaluate the read later.
Pre-edit: I'm good with yuma's suggestion for raerae to decide. To offer a counter to his desire for end-of-the-week: I feel like end of the week would make for a short day1. And I feel like rushing day1 is a mistake, because it provides the groundwork for all future days analysis. Sat-Mon is bad because weekend participation always bottoms out. Finally as a point of note: 3 days is tomorrow night, so we'll be using bankable days after that. IMO bankable days are most needed in the first three "days", so if we divided them equally we'd get 9 days for each "day" putting the deadline on Wednesday. If we want more time for later, that pretty much argues for end-of-the-week though. Poorly placed weekend here.
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I'm fine with raerae deciding.
awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
Eevee why did you vote Galz? What are your thoughts thus far in this game? What is your read on me?
First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
I voted for Galzria because someone just posted all of Watno's contributions and they didn't look particularly towny. Neither did Galzria's appearance, and I have a hard time not having a town read on him. Got to start somewhere. I'll reread you and comment on the next post.
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Here are the four posts that I made before becoming "me". Robz named Watno (after much teeth pulling by Axxle to put forth a name), but didn't offer up any reason for his suspicion.
Directly to Axxle's question and point, Robz said he didn't want to restart the game because he was already building reads. That particular quote was made prior to the last Watno quote, so in truth if Watno was his biggest scum read, it was based on only the first three quotes only.
Additionally, I find it interesting that Robz would be willing to place his vote on Theorel over a disagreement, admitting that he didn't, and doesn't, find Theorel himself scummy - yet it took so long to unvote, and further, took quite a time to hey him to say who his actual scum reads are on - although he's not voting those reads.
It just doesn't feel all that genuine. Feels like he grabbed a name and threw it out there.
I'm up.
I think we shouldn't be discussing the power role distribution now, since the probablities of stuff being in are different for those who have a power role.
I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
I think trying to provoke fights is a good thing. People fighting are way more likely to say something they shouldn't have said as scum.
@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?
The RVS joke flew over my head...
Interestingly, it is Galz, the person you are voting for, who pulled up these quotes on Watno... now he doesn't find them scummy, but he has a bias. But I kinda agree with him, as I said before in response to Robz voting Watno that it is hard to see someone getting a scum read based off only 4 posts, especially when that player opted out to replace due to being busy.
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9 posts before the game starts, 16 after. First 7 are introductions, discussing vig strategy or correcting vote couns, I don't think any of these is particularly relevant to yuma's alignment. Cuzz votes for yuma for a case that's flimsy at best, yuma points this out and votes for Cuzz. I agree with yuma on Cuzz's case, and people like to omgus back when accused with false reasons, so I don't glean anything from this either. Next yuma says he hasnt found Robz scummy in this game, and mildly defends him against Axxle's accusations. I agree with him again, Robz-wagon seems to be there mainly because it's Robz. Next yuma notes I've been awfully silent. Nope, not VLA per ce, just.. not yet that into this game, have little reads and not much to say. I feel I'm like this day 1 a lot, and then pick up my activity later. I think it's mostly a stylistic thing, if I joined fewer games, I might commence rereads already on day 1 and be a better player. Maybe I should try this. (Note, being alive in several games doesn't really affect my activity due to not having time to post. I'm around plenty, it just muddies up my reads a bit, especially in early game.) Then a couple of posts discussing a soft deadline, again something I don't think will be any different regardless of his alignment, and finally the post of asking me questions I just quoted above. That's yuma this far in this game. Analysis of this information: dunno. Hasn't done much anything make me think he is town or scum. That's possibly a mild scum tell for me personally because I take town reads much better than scum reads, so using theorel's scum-o-meter I'll give yuma a 27 (25 was the base). Watnolzria is at 32. Robz at 20.
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First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
*whoosh*
Vote: Galzria
I think robz's responses was acceptable, not great, but ok.
I think watno's vote on robz was a bit scummy, I think Galz unvoted since he knew it was scummy, I think Galz's interaction with Robz isn't much better.
I already think there is good chance of there being one scum/one town between robz and galz, more so than any other pair of people.
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Theorel&Robz&axxle?
sorry axxle I am going to discuss this... but I think this is a role that our friendly Innocent Child could fulfill. Leave it up to raerae to determine when the soft deadline is, how to implement it, and what the penalty will be for non-participation?
And now I am done discussing it... I will leave it to raerae to decide, if rarerae chooses to take on this responsibility.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Under Pressure suddenly began playing in my head. Not cool, dude folk. Plus, I’ll kill whoever is spreading the filthy lie that I’m friendly.
Argument: I don’t feel comfortable making this decision without additional input but I do like Axxle’s statement that talking about it takes up more time than setting one actually saves. I feel like this is a bit like calling a pre-meeting in corporate life. 1 out of every 20 pre-meetings will be productive but most of the time it’s just a straight waste. Also, I will be v/la through Friday evening so setting a deadline when I won’t be around (and then probably being killed immediately N1) sounds like a crappy way to finish out this game.
Concession: Nobody will ever accurately accuse me of not being a team player, so if the majority of you wonderful people want a soft-deadline of the end of this week with a lynch on whoever has the most votes at that time (is that how this would happen?), I will make it so.
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First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
*whoosh*
Vote: Galzria
I think robz's responses was acceptable, not great, but ok.
I think watno's vote on robz was a bit scummy, I think Galz unvoted since he knew it was scummy, I think Galz's interaction with Robz isn't much better.
I already think there is good chance of there being one scum/one town between robz and galz, more so than any other pair of people.
Try again, Axxle. I unvoted because it's the proper action to do when one takes over for another player. If my reads are the same, I'll place the vote back. If they're different, I'll move it. At all times I'll discuss my reasoning for doing so.
Now, you claim that MY interaction with Robz seems scummy, but you give no details. Was it the post in which I outlined the things that have been said about Robz this game and gave my thoughts on them? If so, please explain.
Was it the post where I questioned Robz scum read (that you pushed him into declaring, and he gave no follow-up to) on Wayno by providing Watno's 4 posts? If so, please explain how my asking him to explain is scummy.
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First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
*whoosh*
Vote: Galzria
I think robz's responses was acceptable, not great, but ok.
I think watno's vote on robz was a bit scummy, I think Galz unvoted since he knew it was scummy, I think Galz's interaction with Robz isn't much better.
I already think there is good chance of there being one scum/one town between robz and galz, more so than any other pair of people.
Further, you claim that you read Robz responses as "acceptable", and yet he has offered no reasons or explanations of his Watno response since making it. So I'm curious what justification in his responses read as "acceptable"to you?
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If you unvoted because it's "The proper action" why did you wait to read everything?
This seems like you're trying to justify your predecessor's scummy vote:
Unvote
Vig's should not shoot under any circumstances, until there's absolute necessity for them to do so. They are nothing but a plague on the town.
That said, I don't give Robz much credit for standing firm on the issue. It's something that he and I both feel strongly about. How many games has town won when a Vig shot? The only one that comes to mind is my shot in M-VI - which happened to coincide with the SK shot anyway so was moot (although my other two choices, Theorel and Robz, were both scum that game as well).
Robz, being the most vocal, stands out the most in my reread.
First, his very quick, early vote is extremely uncharacteristic of him. Especially because he didn't cast it over what he would classify as a scummy read, but instead over someone disagreeing with him. Robz - do you really think that Theorel is scum?
Second, the "he likes playing scum" argument. I don't think that's all that solid of a case. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I too enjoy playing scum more. I still would have advocated not restarting if possible. RVS sucks, and getting past it can often times be a real challenge. To do it twice in one game? No thank you. Besides, in order to get the roles you like playing, you have to play the roles you don't like.
Third, Robz "buddying" - I believe it was Cuzz who said that it seemed more a scum Robz thing to say "Wow, great point, just not true this time" - and you're right that it used to be that way. Buddying Robz used to equal scummy Robz every time. Now it's a bit more null. Take RMM3 for example, where as the town thief, his response to those saying he had stolen the Ice Cream was "I didn't, but I absolutely see why you think that I did it, and in your shoes I would be voting me as well". I know Robz went through a long streak of being lynched or NK'd on the first day, and he had a long talk with Volt about what he was doing wrong. Since then I've noticed a few small changes. First, he's appearing more care-free - by pushing less solid cases or weaker ideas - and second by being a lot less confrontational. The "yeah, you're probably right" response is becoming much more commonplace.
In regards to this game, and his overall persona, there are enough things that stick out that leave me questioning his townitude. However, those aren't my biggest concerns at this point. While Robz is actively "slightly-scummy", there are others who are far, far less active to date, and the lack of participation stands out much more severely to me than Robz participation does at this time.
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First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
*whoosh*
Vote: Galzria
I think robz's responses was acceptable, not great, but ok.
I think watno's vote on robz was a bit scummy, I think Galz unvoted since he knew it was scummy, I think Galz's interaction with Robz isn't much better.
I already think there is good chance of there being one scum/one town between robz and galz, more so than any other pair of people.
Further, you claim that you read Robz responses as "acceptable", and yet he has offered no reasons or explanations of his Watno response since making it. So I'm curious what justification in his responses read as "acceptable"to you?
Mostly if I was to pick a name at random (like you suggest he did) to have a scumread on, it wouldn't be on you.
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If you unvoted because it's "The proper action" why did you wait to read everything?
This seems like you're trying to justify your predecessor's scummy vote:
Unvote
Vig's should not shoot under any circumstances, until there's absolute necessity for them to do so. They are nothing but a plague on the town.
That said, I don't give Robz much credit for standing firm on the issue. It's something that he and I both feel strongly about. How many games has town won when a Vig shot? The only one that comes to mind is my shot in M-VI - which happened to coincide with the SK shot anyway so was moot (although my other two choices, Theorel and Robz, were both scum that game as well).
Robz, being the most vocal, stands out the most in my reread.
First, his very quick, early vote is extremely uncharacteristic of him. Especially because he didn't cast it over what he would classify as a scummy read, but instead over someone disagreeing with him. Robz - do you really think that Theorel is scum?
Second, the "he likes playing scum" argument. I don't think that's all that solid of a case. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I too enjoy playing scum more. I still would have advocated not restarting if possible. RVS sucks, and getting past it can often times be a real challenge. To do it twice in one game? No thank you. Besides, in order to get the roles you like playing, you have to play the roles you don't like.
Third, Robz "buddying" - I believe it was Cuzz who said that it seemed more a scum Robz thing to say "Wow, great point, just not true this time" - and you're right that it used to be that way. Buddying Robz used to equal scummy Robz every time. Now it's a bit more null. Take RMM3 for example, where as the town thief, his response to those saying he had stolen the Ice Cream was "I didn't, but I absolutely see why you think that I did it, and in your shoes I would be voting me as well". I know Robz went through a long streak of being lynched or NK'd on the first day, and he had a long talk with Volt about what he was doing wrong. Since then I've noticed a few small changes. First, he's appearing more care-free - by pushing less solid cases or weaker ideas - and second by being a lot less confrontational. The "yeah, you're probably right" response is becoming much more commonplace.
In regards to this game, and his overall persona, there are enough things that stick out that leave me questioning his townitude. However, those aren't my biggest concerns at this point. While Robz is actively "slightly-scummy", there are others who are far, far less active to date, and the lack of participation stands out much more severely to me than Robz participation does at this time.
It was the first thing in my first post - I was advised by the mod when I substituted in that I reread everything, flavor, posts, and mod-errors before posting - so that's exactly what I did.
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Theorel&Robz&axxle?
sorry axxle I am going to discuss this... but I think this is a role that our friendly Innocent Child could fulfill. Leave it up to raerae to determine when the soft deadline is, how to implement it, and what the penalty will be for non-participation?
And now I am done discussing it... I will leave it to raerae to decide, if rarerae chooses to take on this responsibility.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Under Pressure suddenly began playing in my head. Not cool, dude folk. Plus, I’ll kill whoever is spreading the filthy lie that I’m friendly.
Argument: I don’t feel comfortable making this decision without additional input but I do like Axxle’s statement that talking about it takes up more time than setting one actually saves. I feel like this is a bit like calling a pre-meeting in corporate life. 1 out of every 20 pre-meetings will be productive but most of the time it’s just a straight waste. Also, I will be v/la through Friday evening so setting a deadline when I won’t be around (and then probably being killed immediately N1) sounds like a crappy way to finish out this game.
Concession: Nobody will ever accurately accuse me of not being a team player, so if the majority of you wonderful people want a soft-deadline of the end of this week with a lynch on whoever has the most votes at that time (is that how this would happen?), I will make it so.
i like soft deadlines. and having an IC to moderate is actually ideal. i'm for it.
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Mostly if I was to pick a name at random (like you suggest he did) to have a scumread on, it wouldn't be on you.
(axxle is bad at randomness)
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Mostly if I was to pick a name at random (like you suggest he did) to have a scumread on, it wouldn't be on you.
(axxle is bad at randomness)
I can pick one of you or Eevee and still be random. I don't have to include Galz in that choice :)
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It was the first thing in my first post - I was advised by the mod when I substituted in that I reread everything, flavor, posts, and mod-errors before posting - so that's exactly what I did.
I'll take that into consideration.
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It was the first thing in my first post - I was advised by the mod when I substituted in that I reread everything, flavor, posts, and mod-errors before posting - so that's exactly what I did.
I'll take that into consideration.
Are you calling me a liar?
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It was the first thing in my first post - I was advised by the mod when I substituted in that I reread everything, flavor, posts, and mod-errors before posting - so that's exactly what I did.
I'll take that into consideration.
Are you calling me a liar?
Not necessarily, but the fact that you focused entirely on Robz in that post is still scummy to me.
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It was the first thing in my first post - I was advised by the mod when I substituted in that I reread everything, flavor, posts, and mod-errors before posting - so that's exactly what I did.
I'll take that into consideration.
Are you calling me a liar?
Not necessarily, but the fact that you focused entirely on Robz in that post is still scummy to me.
Why so worried about Robz? Protecting your partner?
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Yes.
No wait, the other thing.
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man, troll axxle is funny
are you always this troll-ish?
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I feel trollish today, I'll probably get back to normal tomorrow.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
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I'm actually really getting an odd vibe that yuma is scum. But it's not one of those things i can really justify with "facts" or "evidence" at this juncture. He just seems like scum yuma to me a bit. It might have something to do with this quote:
awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
which seems really fake to me. It reminds me of a remark I remember him making in MXIV that also seemed a bit over the top.
I'll Vote: yuma again then.
Scummier read on him than on my previous vote of Robz at the moment.
Also Lekkit and Abra being super lurky so far.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
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Vote Count 1.6
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (2): Eevee, Axxle
Lekkit (1): theorel
yuma (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (6): Abra655, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Yeah, I can see how that might affect how much fun you have.
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So it seems our main suspects are Robz, Eevee, Galz and Axxle.
I don't know... day 1 is hard.
I think Robz acting obvscum and claiming that makes him obvtown could very possible be a scum play. You know, WIFOM and all of that.
That's all I really have for now, I'll do a re-read tonight if I have time.
For now, Vote: Lekkit to try to force him out of hiding.
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Vote: Lekkit, now that's something I have done before with great success too. He is not even in any other games (afaik), he should be able to contribute if he wanted to!
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Is the best way to "solve" this setup to count the number of BCDMV roles that you know of, subtract that from 7, and analyze what T possibilities are left? I missed playing this setup the first time around, so I'm not sure.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Sad. :(
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On the other hand, I enjoy being called a liar. Feed me your hatred! It only makes me stronger!
Sorry, Azula was interjecting.
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Is the best way to "solve" this setup to count the number of BCDMV roles that you know of, subtract that from 7, and analyze what T possibilities are left? I missed playing this setup the first time around, so I'm not sure.
The best way to solve the setup is to go the mafiascum page and try to figure out how much of everything else there could be, based on what you know. Like, since we have exactly 1 IC, every combination of Masons other than 0 and 2 is ruled out.
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Is the best way to "solve" this setup to count the number of BCDMV roles that you know of, subtract that from 7, and analyze what T possibilities are left? I missed playing this setup the first time around, so I'm not sure.
The best way to solve the setup is to go the mafiascum page and try to figure out how much of everything else there could be, based on what you know. Like, since we have exactly 1 IC, every combination of Masons other than 0 and 2 is ruled out.
Ehh, but what does that really tell me? There could still be any combination of other rolls to have been rolled, right? Ultimately, it's a total of 7 roles, and from a town perspective, it's BCDMV vs T, where I don't care what BCDMV exist exactly, rather I care about three possibilities of T that exist.
To illustrate, assume I'm VT and have no further knowledge other than we have 1 IC - then looking through the setup all I can conclude is that the only possible scum setup not possible is 7 T's, or "Goon, Godfather, Serial Killer". Every other combination of T (0 to 6) could still exist correct?
Likewise, if I were, say, a 1-shot Roleblocker, I would then know that we had at least 1 M and 2 B, thus the number of T (which again, I posit it what town really cares about) cannot be 7, 6 or 5 - leaving only 0 to 4 as options.
Is this not the best way to determine the setup from any individual town players perspective, or is there more that I can conclude for certain about what scum we may or may not be dealing with? It seems to me that I could care less if we have 1 M or 3, except as it pertains to how many T's we can possible have. Am I wrong?
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Galzria, you're not wrong. It's very hard to guess the setup--anywhere near close to it--Day 1.
In M-XII, we still struggle to figure out if there were enough T's for a Serial Killer, and that was after massclaim.
So while we will spend a lot of time discussing it, don't expect to guess the setup easily, if at all.
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Galzria, you're not wrong. It's very hard to guess the setup--anywhere near close to it--Day 1.
In M-XII, we still struggle to figure out if there were enough T's for a Serial Killer, and that was after massclaim.
So while we will spend a lot of time discussing it, don't expect to guess the setup easily, if at all.
Well, massclaiming is a ***** in a semi-open setup where scum fakeclaiming skews everything and you have no clue who is scum so you're no closer to solving anything of value.
Hence my question wasn't geared to a "how can town solve this", and instead was a "what's the best way to maximize the information I can have"? - I don't want to miss possibilities when putting my notes together; it won't do me any good while scum hunting, nor will it do town any good if I paste said notes before being lynched. I just want to be as thorough as I can be within my knowledge level (as little as that may seem to be).
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All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B
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All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B
Yeah, I've already got the link saved for easy access, and my trusty notepad of notes to track what I know. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something like "if there are 2 D, there cannot be 3 C" or something else random like that. Limitations, basically, is what I was wondering about - if there were ways to find out more about the setup based on less concrete information.
It appears not though. :( Just me 'n my notepad.
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i think this is an open setup designed to be both interesting and mass-claim resistant
which is exciting
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Again, I don't have much input to add to the Vig theor(el?)y discussion, since this is pretty much my second normal mafia game. I do like to read the theory, though. And to be honest, what I enjoy the most in mafia is not really lynching scum, but rather trying to figure out who is scum. And my favorite way to do that is by lurking. I know it's not good for town when I do so, and I'll really be trying to make the game go forward.
I'm like most people (?) here and don't particularly like RVS, so that's why I've been quiet for most of the day this far. I do find it quite funny that both Jim and Eevee voted for me to bring me out of lurkiness as I think they've both been rather quiet themselves.
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i think this is an open setup designed to be both interesting and mass-claim resistant
which is exciting
i think this and great idea are my favorite goto setups.
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Again, I don't have much input to add to the Vig theor(el?)y discussion, since this is pretty much my second normal mafia game. I do like to read the theory, though. And to be honest, what I enjoy the most in mafia is not really lynching scum, but rather trying to figure out who is scum. And my favorite way to do that is by lurking. I know it's not good for town when I do so, and I'll really be trying to make the game go forward.
I'm like most people (?) here and don't particularly like RVS, so that's why I've been quiet for most of the day this far. I do find it quite funny that both Jim and Eevee voted for me to bring me out of lurkiness as I think they've both been rather quiet themselves.
Hi Lekkit!
I'll admit that I haven't been THAT active, but of course similar to you this is only my third "normal" Mafia game, the other two being blitz games that didn't get all that deep. So I'm no more sure how to contribute than you are. I have, however, actually been posting fairly regularly, mostly about the vigging issue, and also a theory about which I've received positive feedback from three people.
Eevee has been posting probably a little more regularly than me, although possibly less regularly than you might expect from Eevee.
On the other hand, before we voted for you, you had posted a total of 5-6 lines, with the only real substance being that you think vigging is more random than lynching.
I'm not trying to have a go at you, and I hope this doesn't come across as more defensive than it's meant to be, and I certainly understand not knowing what to post about on day 1, but at this stage you're either a scummy lurker or a Townie who hasn't really contributed much, and I think at this stage that's a good enough reason for a day 1 lynch as any.
Now I'm not sure where I stand on "post or be lynched", but since you've been reading, I'm interested to know who your biggest scum or Town reads are.
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All you can do is count up what you know--or think you know--and compare: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B
Yeah, I've already got the link saved for easy access, and my trusty notepad of notes to track what I know. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something like "if there are 2 D, there cannot be 3 C" or something else random like that. Limitations, basically, is what I was wondering about - if there were ways to find out more about the setup based on less concrete information.
It appears not though. :( Just me 'n my notepad.
Right no limitations like that. If we assume that there was still near a 50% chance of each roll producing a non-T result though we get some probabilistic information. There were 6 rolls, and if at least 2 produced non-T results then there are 3 mafia. So, the probability of having 2 mafia is thus: (1/2)^6 + 6*(1/2)^6 ~ 11% (that's the probability of getting 5 or 6 T results) So, with almost a 90% chance of having a mafia roleblocker (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls). So, for my purposes I won't include the possibility of 2 mafia in any discussions. Similarly, I think it's safe to assume we have a mafia roleblocker.
Godfather is trickier, in the most likely case (3 T's) we have no Godfather. Then there are the two sides of that (2 T's and 4 T's) one with godfather one without. The remaining 4 options have Godfathers. I think there are 20 ways to have the most common case, and 14 ways to have the remaining 4. So, given no non-public information we are slightly more likely to have no godfather. If you know there were 2 more non-T rolls for instance though, it would be 11 to 5 for the godfather existing.
Once again this is all assuming 50% likelihood of town roles which is not guaranteed. But it's probably ball-park accurate.
I think the setup information is more useful outside of setup speculation and looking at whether fake-claims are true. In particular, a claim which requires 2 rolls is stronger than a claim which only requires 1. So, someone claiming Cop is making a stronger claim than someone claiming Doctor. A claim which requires another role in order to exist is also stronger than one that doesn't, so 1-shot Doctor is stronger than Roleblocker. Finally, the 1-shot roles never duplicate, therefore they're stronger claims than full-time roles. This is because each of those situations are easier to be contradicted. Now people claim contradictory roles anyways, the only one I think you're really unlikely to see is a 1-shot roleblocker claim, because it can be counter-claimed by another 1-shot roleblocker OR by the absence of a full-time roleblocker.
(Note: I'm using stronger in the sense of has more requirements and suggesting it is more likely to be true. If scum make a stronger fake-claim, then they're more likely to be believed out of the gate, BUT they're also more likely to be proven false by the existence (or lack) of another town role, which is in fact why they're more likely to be believed.)
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So, with almost a 90% chance of having a mafia roleblocker (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls)
This sentence got mangled in editing. It should say something along the lines of:
So, we have almost a 90% chance of having 3 mafia (even bigger if you have a role, to 100% if you have a role requiring 2 non-T rolls). All instances of 3 mafia also have a roleblocker, so this is the same as the probability of having a roleblocker.
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Had a bit of a re-read and found a couple of things I'm not entirely comfortable.
First cayvie.
1) He seems to have been posting a fair bit without actually contributing that much.
2) He seems to be somewhat buddying up to Robz. Not sure exactly what that means.
3) Obviously his main contribution has been the whole Eevee doctor thing.
ugh i've already screwed this up
see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.
I don't know, I'm not entirely comfortable with how certain cayvie seems to be of Eevee, based on a single, short post. I can't really see a Townie having that strong a scum-read on someone as to effectively say "I think Eevee is scum".
4) This is probably fairly minor, but:
you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
Is it possible cayvie has the Mafia QT on his mind because he's just been posting there?
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A couple of things on Eevee:
raerae, I think the only reason for scum to kill anyone but the IC is if they think they can nail a stronger power role. Sorry, doesn't look good for you.
At first I thought this was entirely innocent and cayvie picking up on it was a little scummy. However I think the scummy part of this is "the only reason". Eevee has either missed or excluded a blindingly obvious reason not to kill the IC: the fact that if there's a Doctor, he will probably protect the IC night 1. So I guess I can see where cayvie is coming from on this - the obvious response is "But Eevee, what about because an IC might be doctored?" And apparently doctor talk is bad for Town. I don't know.
I'm also a little uncomfortable with how quickly Eevee sheeped my vote on Lekkit.
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I think the scummy part of this
And by that I mean, "I think what was perceived to be scummy".
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Had a bit of a re-read and found a couple of things I'm not entirely comfortable.
First cayvie.
1) He seems to have been posting a fair bit without actually contributing that much.
2) He seems to be somewhat buddying up to Robz. Not sure exactly what that means.
3) Obviously his main contribution has been the whole Eevee doctor thing.
ugh i've already screwed this up
see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.
I don't know, I'm not entirely comfortable with how certain cayvie seems to be of Eevee, based on a single, short post. I can't really see a Townie having that strong a scum-read on someone as to effectively say "I think Eevee is scum".
4) This is probably fairly minor, but:
you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
Is it possible cayvie has the Mafia QT on his mind because he's just been posting there?
where do you get that i'm buddying up to Robz?
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i have a pretty strong town read on robz. nothing on anyone else atm.
idk, i didn't see any unstated intentions behind robz's posts.
i don't unvote, usually; i frequently forget who i'm voting for if i didn't place it recently.
(after Robz had been called out for "forgetting" who he had voted for)
Also, this might be a bit of a stretch, and I appreciated it, but I thought this might be an attempt at validating Robz' buddying:
Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.
He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
oh i'm going to like playing with you
this is exactly the type of theory i like :)
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.
Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.
If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.
Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.
If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.
I said it because it was what was on my mind, plain and simple.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Galz, I realize this may be entirely a "meta" comment with no real bearing on this game, but I want to ask about it anyway.
Specifically, why did you post it in-game? If you're town I don't see why it's beneficial or pro-town to say anything like this, even if it's true.
If you're scum, though, it could be intentional emotional manipulation to try to guilt people out of arguing with you or doubting anything you say.
I said it because it was what was on my mind, plain and simple.
To be more clear: I don't self edit as town. I don't sit there and go "I hope what I'm saying comes of townie enough". Quite simply, I don't give a damn. That was what was on my mind when I posted the first. Upon rereading it, I thought Axxle might feel I was attacking him with it directly, so I clarified.
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Vote Count 1.7
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.
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Vote Count 1.7
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.
Everybody cool with a soft deadline of Friday at 8pm forum time? Lynch the person with the most votes at that point if we haven't come to a decision yet?
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Vote Count 1.7
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (2): cayvie, yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (3): theorel, Jimmmmm, Eevee
yuma (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Please note, in approximately 30 minutes, the stock three real days for D1 will be over and your bankable time begins.
Everybody cool with a soft deadline of Friday at 8pm forum time? Lynch the person with the most votes at that point if we haven't come to a decision yet?
That seems a little soon based on the level of activity in this game so far, though weekends are really bad for deadlines and we probably don't want to wait till Monday. So I guess I'm ok with this but would like it if people could try to ramp up the level of conversation before then. D1 is mostly just scrambling around in the dark anyway.
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I think we can do it, but wouldn't be surprised if we 1. don't 2. get resistance for having such an early deadline.
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Been a bit busy at work and playing the DS champs.
I've only got one slight town read beside raerae, and that's theorel. He came out during RVS and pretty much ended it. However most of his posts seems to be theory oriented and not much analysis, although there isn't that much to analyze yet. Robz is hard to read as always and I could see his behaviour be either town or scum.
I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.
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Been a bit busy at work and playing the DS champs.
I've only got one slight town read beside raerae, and that's theorel. He came out during RVS and pretty much ended it. However most of his posts seems to be theory oriented and not much analysis, although there isn't that much to analyze yet. Robz is hard to read as always and I could see his behaviour be either town or scum.
I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.
what do you think of the mini-wagon that formed on you? and of the people on it?
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or did you already answer a question similar to that... I seem to remember that.
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He commented on feeling it was unusual for Eevee and Jimmmmmm to be voting him given their relative lack of content. And now he's commented on me, so he's hit everyone in some fashion.
Lekkit's posts have started to have content, so I'm happy to unvote.
I'm good with a Friday deadline. Maybe a pending deadline will generate the communication that we're concerned isn't there. I'm conflicted about it personally (which should have been evident by my previous comment), but if raerae is happy with it, I'm happy.
Hmmm...I think it's time for a reread and everybody-analysis.
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Actually Vote: Abra since I want to hear from him, and he didn't post at all last night.
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I'll join you in an analysis... promise not to cheat of your post if you finish first!
Abra /outed of the game I am running, Casino Royale, his he still in this game?
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1 – Robz888 - I argued with him about the vig stuff, but I think basically we were saying the same thing, but I was suggesting that a vig shouldn't just listen to him--or anyone else for that matter--his "buddying" as someone called is exactly the advice he gave to someone, somewhere (cryptic I know) who was asking for help on how to not be so constantly lynched as a townie. Basically he said that you should agree with the case and admit that it has relevance... So either he is scum following his own advice or town following his own advice. Null read for now
2 – Jimmmmm - new player, not a lot to go off but liking the out of the box thinking he has shown. But could be scum putting out ideas to distract town. Appears to be more active and thoughtful than the game I saw him in blitz, slightly scummy read thus far
3 - cayvie - probably the most difficult person in all of FDS mafia for me to read. Her vote on eevee for "doc reasons" resonated as town to me regardless of eevee's intentions.
4 - Eevee - scummy read so far, which is kinda rare for me as I tend to not view Eevee very scummy. Wish I would have paid more attention to RMM3 to see eevee as scum recently.
5 - Captain_Frisk - VLA so null
6 - Abra655 - if still in the game probably a null read as not much to go off
7 - Lekkit - is posting, that is good. null read still though
8 - Cuzz - I think he had tried to push a weak case on me and then continued to try to push a weak case. slight scummy read coming from here
9 - theorel - town read, very much the same theorel I remember from MVIII
10 - Galzria - was quickly put on the defensive once he was in the game, said he was going to do a reread. Did that happen galz. town readish
11 - yuma - town
12 - Axxle - not sure about his case on Galz. Axxle could go either way on this; Axxle likes putting pressure on people to get a reaction and then gauge their reactions according and I don't fault him for that. But I didn't really like his "one of Robz or Galz is likely scum approach." So slight scum read here.
13 – raerae* - innocent child,
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I'm through 3 rereads, and am off to bed. I wanted to ask Robz about this though:
No space, oops, Vote: Theorel
I can't remember which game it was, but I thought that someone showed that via simulation, vig killing
was generally pro town? (Despite its terrible history here... so far only Galz has hit scum?)
I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I
remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense
to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment.
I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off
the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown
because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
It's not a controversial opinion. I didn't think it was, at least. My understanding was that everyone
who had actually played with a vigilante pretty much agreed that they should just stop shooting. But
maybe it was just me and Frisk (who unfortunately isn't here).
Did you mean Galzria? Because Frisk really doesn't seem to share your opinion there.
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@Lekkit, you’ve said you don’t have a lot to say because it’s day one and RVS is boring. Exactly how do you propose we move out of it if you sit back and watch us spin our wheels? You then complain about the soft-deadline I set without objecting to me being in charge of that after I clearly indicated I was uncomfortable with that decision. You also criticize theorel for 1) not having much substance to his posts and 2) only coming out in RVS when you yourself only showed up once you called out for lurking and didn’t say much then.
I just don’t think you’ve had a lot to say and I don’t see how town is benefiting from keeping you around.
Vote: Lekkit
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13 – raerae* - innocent child,
did you have more to say here? just noticed you ended with a comma. wasn't sure if typo or incomplete.
i can get on board with a vote: lurkit i mean vote: lekkit
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oh that original quote was from yuma
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Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
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Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
although you think he would have learned from that experience though and would post more as town to prevent getting lynched?
and cayvie I don't think I had more to say... i didn't fill out that list sequentially, but rather as I read, so I imagine I put the comma there thinking I might have more to say through my reread but didn't? I don't know.
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Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
Consistently unhelpful, consistent or not, is still unhelpful. Robz, why should town keep him around other than the fact that he played this way once before?
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Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
Consistently unhelpful, consistent or not, is still unhelpful. Robz, why should town keep him around other than the fact that he played this way once before?
Because our goal isn't to kill unhelpful players; it's to kill the mafia-aligned players. The fact that he has played exactly like this once before (and was town), gives me pause.
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Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
Consistently unhelpful, consistent or not, is still unhelpful. Robz, why should town keep him around other than the fact that he played this way once before?
Because our goal isn't to kill unhelpful players; it's to kill the mafia-aligned players. The fact that he has played exactly like this once before (and was town), gives me pause.
Do you have a better read?
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You mean, someone I think is scummier? Lots of people are scummier, by virtue of not duplicating their exact town play, as Lekkit is doing.
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You mean, someone I think is scummier? Lots of people are scummier, by virtue of not duplicating their exact town play, as Lekkit is doing.
So planning on voting soon then? Or at least talking stuff up? You've had a lot to say about how to play the game in general but very little about this game in particular. Also, you've admitted to becoming "overly fond" of the This-Is-How-They-Play-Last-Time argument so maybe time to switch it up?
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Robz, i think a mafioso is more likely to try to exactly emuöate their known town meta. townies are more devilmaycare, especially so if they have no powerful role.
to get us moving before the deadline, i encourage everyone to either provide a list like yuma, or better yet, if you are like me and unsure about a bunch of people, do what i did earlier with yuma; reread someone (other than raerae) and give your opinion on that person. seriously, rereads are helpful, but a lot of work. rereading one playerin takes like 10 minutes with the all button and ctrl f on their iso username, and presenting your results will make it easier for others to determine what they think of hat player (so pick someone that hasnt been done already). i'll try to get on this too today!
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Vote Count 1.8
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1): yuma
Galzria (1): Axxle
Lekkit (4): Jimmmmm, Eevee, raerae, cayvie {L-3}
yuma (1): Cuzz
Abra655 (1): theorel
Not Voting (4): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Robz888
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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I was thinking about the "Lurkit" lynch today and wondering, both for this game in particular and also in general...
If we lynch Lekkit for lurking and he's scum, that's great. If he's town, well at least he hasn't been contributing much. But maybe that's a double-edged sword, because whatever his flip we're not likely to get any useful clues from it, since he hasn't said a lot and thus others haven't said much about him. If, however we lynch someone on the other end of the spectrum, say a Robz, well then worst case he flips Town and we can go back and reread everything he's posted as if he were an IC, and have a look at everything that's been said about him.
I'm not really sure which way is better with this. I know "lynch all lurkers" has been a common Townish strategy, but maybe lynching posters gives us more useful information?
Any thoughts? raerae?
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I think a lekkit lurk lynch is terrible. He always lurks.
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I was thinking about the "Lurkit" lynch today and wondering, both for this game in particular and also in general...
If we lynch Lekkit for lurking and he's scum, that's great. If he's town, well at least he hasn't been contributing much. But maybe that's a double-edged sword, because whatever his flip we're not likely to get any useful clues from it, since he hasn't said a lot and thus others haven't said much about him. If, however we lynch someone on the other end of the spectrum, say a Robz, well then worst case he flips Town and we can go back and reread everything he's posted as if he were an IC, and have a look at everything that's been said about him.
I'm not really sure which way is better with this. I know "lynch all lurkers" has been a common Townish strategy, but maybe lynching posters gives us more useful information?
Any thoughts? raerae?
Jimm, I was mildly impressed with you, and then you go and blow it! ;) >:(
We get clues from Lekkit's flip regardless. Like, if he flipped town, then we look at which fools lynched him despite his near-duplicate town play. Pay attention to the wagon joiners. That sort of thing.
Indiscriminately killing me just for the sake of killing a "poster" is bad for the game, because it eliminates one of the more analytical players. Sure, kill us if you think we're scum, but don't be too excited to lose us when we're not. Towns go downhill rapidly when they lose their best members. You'd be surprised.
Lynch all lurkers has not become a townish strategy. It's a gossip strategy; it rarely is actually used. Lynching posters is bad incentivizing, bad policy... and won't help us find scum, I'd bet.
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Robz, do you assume Lekkit would play different as scum?
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Robz, do you assume Lekkit would play different as scum?
Not intentionally. He would unconsciously acted differently. Over time, this would become more apparent.
This pertains to scum in general, not just Lekkit.
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Robz, do you assume Lekkit would play different as scum?
Not intentionally. He would unconsciously acted differently. Over time, this would become more apparent.
This pertains to scum in general, not just Lekkit.
in general, i buy this argument
but when someone's town meta is "lurks"
it doesn't seem that it would be difficult to replicate that as scum
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@Lekkit, you’ve said you don’t have a lot to say because it’s day one and RVS is boring. Exactly how do you propose we move out of it if you sit back and watch us spin our wheels? You then complain about the soft-deadline I set without objecting to me being in charge of that after I clearly indicated I was uncomfortable with that decision. You also criticize theorel for 1) not having much substance to his posts and 2) only coming out in RVS when you yourself only showed up once you called out for lurking and didn’t say much then.
I just don’t think you’ve had a lot to say and I don’t see how town is benefiting from keeping you around.
Vote: Lekkit
If you were't the IC I would have a scum read on you right now. Asking for thoughts on the deadline and not wanting to hear them is coming off as really arrogant to me.
I have yet to find the key to move out of RVS, bu it seems like both Galz and theorel manages that pretty well on a regular basis. Do you really think me participating in RVS would've made it end earlier? If it wouldve been super quiet I woulsve said something, but as long as the game moves forward, I dont really see the point in oosting random votes.
Also FOS cayvie for jumping on the lurker wagon when Abra is a lot more absent.
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Alright, here's where I stand on everyone based on some rereads. I also want to look at who voted for Robz to take him to L-3 and who's voting for Lekkit.
Robz-short version: An unusual amount of theory talk from Robz. He is "loud" (as in active and firm in his opinions) usually, and this causes him to often pull heat. He hasn't really done much in the way of analysis this game, which is usually his strong suit. I'm never confident in my Robz-reads, but...I'm gonna give him a little bit scummy. (Also he's been quiet today, which is contributing to the nothing but theory and defense which seems not-Robz-like) Recently he's been defending Lekkit some, but I still want more reads and less theory from him. scumScore: 30
Jimmmmm: Early part of the game he seemed to primarily try to engage Robz in vig-discussion. But lately he's been giving good analysis (not necessarily good in the sense of correct, but he seems genuinely engaged in trying to solve the game (by picking out who's scum). scumScore: 20
cayvie: seems mostly like herself. scumScore: 20
Eevee: has seemed more town lately, his early game still feels off though. scumScore: 27
Frisk: He's VLA, and his couple early posts are pretty neutral. scumScore: 25
Abra: He replaced out of other game. He certainly has the newb-didn't fully realize what he was getting into vibe going. scumScore: 25
Lekkit: Although lurking early, he's been coming out posting now. He's not posting A LOT, but he is posting now. I'd like to see where he goes. scumScore: 25
Cuzz: He feels like he's trying to figure things out, but I think he's overly zeroing in on yuma who I think is town. scumScore: 25
Galzria: The time as watno was short and had little content. So, I'm treating this like just Galzria. Galzria seems usual, he's posting large posts, I'd like to hear his opinions on someone other than Robz. scumScore: 25
Yuma: He definitely reads townie to me. scumScore: 15
Axxle: He's been pretty provocative. I think harshness may have been what I was trying to describe earlier, which he claims to have done to help generate informative fights. I don't disagree with this, but I think scum can try to promote "informative" fights that are designed to get town lynched. scumScore: 27
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I was thinking about the "Lurkit" lynch today and wondering, both for this game in particular and also in general...
If we lynch Lekkit for lurking and he's scum, that's great. If he's town, well at least he hasn't been contributing much. But maybe that's a double-edged sword, because whatever his flip we're not likely to get any useful clues from it, since he hasn't said a lot and thus others haven't said much about him. If, however we lynch someone on the other end of the spectrum, say a Robz, well then worst case he flips Town and we can go back and reread everything he's posted as if he were an IC, and have a look at everything that's been said about him.
I'm not really sure which way is better with this. I know "lynch all lurkers" has been a common Townish strategy, but maybe lynching posters gives us more useful information?
Any thoughts? raerae?
Jimm, I was mildly impressed with you, and then you go and blow it! ;) >:(
Well that didn't take much. What's unimpressive about thinking about the ramifications of lynching and asking for people's opinions about my thoughts?
We get clues from Lekkit's flip regardless. Like, if he flipped town, then we look at which fools lynched him despite his near-duplicate town play. Pay attention to the wagon joiners. That sort of thing.
I find that particularly unhelpful. It sounds like you're suggesting we sit back and watch who people vote for without actively taking part. Obviously you're not. But it doesn't address the main point of my post, which is simply thinking about what and how much useful information/clues we can gather from a particular lynch, from the point of view of deciding who to lynch.
Indiscriminately killing me just for the sake of killing a "poster" is bad for the game, because it eliminates one of the more analytical players. Sure, kill us if you think we're scum, but don't be too excited to lose us when we're not. Towns go downhill rapidly when they lose their best members. You'd be surprised.
Please. You know I didn't mean picking randomly picking someone with a high post. I was comparing lynching one person people have a scum-read on to lynching another person people have a scum read on. Also, I think you're flattering yourself just a little here. I feel like you've said a lot without actually helping much. Sure, plenty of questionable theory, but as theorel pointed out, the only things you've said about this particular game are a couple of one-liners and a one-worder giving token reads because you were specifically asked for them. And of course, that Lekkit is obvTown because he hasn't posted much.
Lynch all lurkers has not become a townish strategy. It's a gossip strategy; it rarely is actually used. Lynching posters is bad incentivizing, bad policy... and won't help us find scum, I'd bet.
Okay, I'll accept that. I remember in one of the Blitz games you saying "I'll vote for whoever has the lowest post count", and getting at least some agreement. If you say it's generally used as a threat rather than an actual lynch decision, I believe you.
So Robz, I'd like to ask you to contribute something specific to this game. Who is your biggest scum read? Why? Do you have a particular quote to back that up? Is there someone who is acting distinctly differently than when they were Town?
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Lekkit, I'm looking for a reason to unvote you. Besides our scummy UIC and people who have voted for you, what are some of your reads?
However, you do have a point in that I'd like to hear something from Abra as well.
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I don’t want to address a million people/things in one post but I have a limited time right now so sorry, guys.
@Lekkit, you didn’t object the first time I asked for input on the date. The general consensus then was the end of the week. Friday is as end of the week as you can get without being a weekend so I went there. You outright objecting to it just makes me look at you more. If I were scum, I would want town to use up as much of that bankable time as possible because it leaves less time for you at then when time is really more valuable. As for your question about you participating in RVS, I certainly don’t think it could have hurt. You’ve brought this suspicion on yourself by not contributing to the town effort. Prove me wrong.
@Jim4, I outline my thoughts and feelings on Robz in post #252. He’s only solidified that for me by saying he’s the best darn player since sliced bread. But then again, I’ve always been suspicious of people who tell me they’re awesome instead of showing me. Also, if I’m mafia and playing this game with somebody who’s yelling as loudly as he is about acting the same game to game what the heck do you think I’m going to do to avoid being called out on it? Also, saying lynch all lurkers is bad news bears is directly conflicting with what he said in posts #94 #98.
@theorel, I like everything you said.
Cayvie voting for Lekkit shortly after I did seemed a smidge odd but not too much as I don’t think we were the first ones on that boat.
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I have yet to find the key to move out of RVS, bu it seems like both Galz and theorel manages that pretty well on a regular basis. Do you really think me participating in RVS would've made it end earlier? If it wouldve been super quiet I woulsve said something, but as long as the game moves forward, I dont really see the point in oosting random votes.
My impression is that the best way to move out of RVS is for as many people to participate in it as possible. RVS doesn't seem to end suddenly. Someone makes a joke, and someone jokingly calls them out on it, then someone else semi-jokingly calls them out on that, then you start to question who's been joking and who's actually been playing the game. And then those who haven't participated in RVS end up struggling to get into the game because everything's started without them.
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Yeah, RVS would NEVER end unless people participated in it. It's not like it's really truly random anyways, for me it's a phase where I'll call anything I can think of out / even vote for people for miniscule reasons. It's never random, just way less confident because the information is still so scarce. Got to start somewhere.
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I don't feel awesome about the Lekkit lynch (when I voted, it definitely wasn't meant to be a vote that would contribute to the day ending without additional information). I have nothing against the Lekkit lynch, I just don't have a read strong enough to want to be a part of it. Unvote Friday is awfully soon. Idk, I'd like to do some rereading and analysis tonight and park my vote somewhere based on the results, but just in case I don't get to it, I'll Vote: cayvie. It's likely there are scum on the wagon if Lekkit is town, and Jimmm seems townier than cayvie.
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Hey raerae, given that it's now ticked over to Friday where I am, what's the final word on the deadline? I think you just need to make a decision and I guess enough people will probably go with it. I've actually found myself a little eager to move ahead in the game, and see what night brings (knowing of course that I may not survive the night :-\).
I need to figure out forum time... as I post my local time is a bit before 2am, and on the posts it says it's a bit before midnight, which I know isn't "forum time". Let me think... is it just before 10am forum time, or is that way off?
Back to the game, I think I'm going to Unvote for now. Still certainly not convinced that Lekkit is obvTown, but my main goal with the vote was to bring him out of hiding, which has happened to some extent. My number one suspect at this stage would probably have to be Robz. (Although I can't help feeling a little bad for the guy - by all accounts he dies day 1 quite regularly, and has votes in another game at the moment. Having said that he's played all the Mafia games here from day dot so I think he can handle it.) He just kind of seems all over the place and overly focused on a) theory and b) himself.
My second at this stage (withholding judgment on Lekkit for now) would be cayvie I think.
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Prove me wrong.
Allright.
@Lekkit, you didn’t object the first time I asked for input on the date. The general consensus then was the end of the week.
No. It most definately was not. theorel suggested wednesday and yuma the weekend. And... Nope, that was pretty much all. You outright objecting to it just makes me look at you more. If I were scum, I would want town to use up as much of that bankable time as possible because it leaves less time for you at then when time is really more valuable.
With the ammount of tunneling I get from you I'm pretty sure I would've attracted just as much attention if I had agreed with you. Sure, bankable days are valuable, but from my experience, later days will be a lot quicker. Day 2 and 3 would be the ones taking the most time. I may be wrong here, and I'm pretty sure theorel will correct me if I am.
As for your question about you participating in RVS, I certainly don’t think it could have hurt. You’ve brought this suspicion on yourself by not contributing to the town effort.
Sure I could've contributed more, but I don't really see how it would've helped us more if I had posted more randomness.
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One thing we do need to consider that I had forgotten about is that Frisk is very V/LA until the deadline proposed. That might not be ideal to not allow a player to participate at all Day 1. I don't know.
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Vote: Eevee
His voting feels really tactical this game, and that's just not town Eevee.
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Sorry, I'll get re-caught back up tonight before bed, and post more thoughts on more players. It's been a busy day, and I've felt rather apathetic towards doing much of anything productive (which is quite bad when one has busy days).
Plus, I'm torn between reading a good book, playing a good video game (I know, right?), keeping up on the forums,reading the rules to Through The Ages, and, you know, actually getting real, productive work done. I don't know what to doooo!
No, but really - I'll post more tonight, and I'll be active tomorrow through our soft-deadline.
/end fluff post
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Sorry, I'll get re-caught back up tonight before bed, and post more thoughts on more players. It's been a busy day, and I've felt rather apathetic towards doing much of anything productive (which is quite bad when one has busy days).
Plus, I'm torn between reading a good book, playing a good video game (I know, right?), keeping up on the forums,reading the rules to Through The Ages, and, you know, actually getting real, productive work done. I don't know what to doooo!
No, but really - I'll post more tonight, and I'll be active tomorrow through our soft-deadline.
/end fluff post
what book?
I just finished the first in Game of Thrones and am now reading My Antonia by Willa Cather.
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Sorry, I'll get re-caught back up tonight before bed, and post more thoughts on more players. It's been a busy day, and I've felt rather apathetic towards doing much of anything productive (which is quite bad when one has busy days).
Plus, I'm torn between reading a good book, playing a good video game (I know, right?), keeping up on the forums,reading the rules to Through The Ages, and, you know, actually getting real, productive work done. I don't know what to doooo!
No, but really - I'll post more tonight, and I'll be active tomorrow through our soft-deadline.
/end fluff post
what book?
I just finished the first in Game of Thrones and am now reading My Antonia by Willa Cather.
Les Misérables (although not in French).
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Sorry, I'll get re-caught back up tonight before bed, and post more thoughts on more players. It's been a busy day, and I've felt rather apathetic towards doing much of anything productive (which is quite bad when one has busy days).
Plus, I'm torn between reading a good book, playing a good video game (I know, right?), keeping up on the forums,reading the rules to Through The Ages, and, you know, actually getting real, productive work done. I don't know what to doooo!
No, but really - I'll post more tonight, and I'll be active tomorrow through our soft-deadline.
/end fluff post
what book?
I just finished the first in Game of Thrones and am now reading My Antonia by Willa Cather.
Les Misérables (although not in French).
It's one of my favorite stories.
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I don't feel awesome about the Lekkit lynch (when I voted, it definitely wasn't meant to be a vote that would contribute to the day ending without additional information). I have nothing against the Lekkit lynch, I just don't have a read strong enough to want to be a part of it. Unvote Friday is awfully soon. Idk, I'd like to do some rereading and analysis tonight and park my vote somewhere based on the results, but just in case I don't get to it, I'll Vote: cayvie. It's likely there are scum on the wagon if Lekkit is town, and Jimmm seems townier than cayvie.
I would suggest that if there were scum on the Lekkit wagon it would be you. I agree with Axxle that your voting is more tactical as are your posts... I will keep my vote on you and urge people to reread you specifically.
and Galz, definitely a good read, just in time for the movie! my wife just read
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One thing we do need to consider that I had forgotten about is that Frisk is very V/LA until the deadline proposed. That might not be ideal to not allow a player to participate at all Day 1. I don't know.
This and Abra bother me about the Friday deadline.
@Mods: Has Abra been prodded/have you heard anything from him? It feels like it's been forever, but it's only been 2 and a half days since his last post.
I don't like the idea of getting an Abra replacement and Frisk day2 with null reads due to well-explained inactivity. Also, I feel like the day is starting to be more productive informationally, and it seems a shame to cut it short.
On the other hand Frisk and Abra's replacement will need to catch up, so even if the deadline were, say Tuesday, they probably wouldn't have much to say. Maybe a Friday deadline is actually better for those players, so that they can come in ready with information day2. Also, we're headed for a weekend activity-drop.
When I weigh those things against each other, I lean towards feeling that the deadline moving into early next week...
We've also heard from several people since the deadline was set (enough to be sure that they aren't all scum at least?) who suggest they'd like the later deadline. I know raerae at least initially wasn't comfortable with the position of making this decision, but I think you've gotten better (or at least more) input into it now. I'll stick by whatever you decide.
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Abra655 has been prodded. Seperate from that, it's my understanding that he has regular Tuesday/Thursday committments which limit his availability on those days.
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Cayvie voting for Lekkit shortly after I did seemed a smidge odd but not too much as I don’t think we were the first ones on that boat.
you're an IC, get used to being sheeped :)
this isn't to imply that your reads are more accurate than anyone's in particular, but at least i know that you're not trying to mislead or distract me with your posts.
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Cayvie voting for Lekkit shortly after I did seemed a smidge odd but not too much as I don’t think we were the first ones on that boat.
you're an IC, get used to being sheeped :)
this isn't to imply that your reads are more accurate than anyone's in particular, but at least i know that you're not trying to mislead or distract me with your posts.
Thanks, cayvie. That makes sense.
Also, to all you other goobers: I am 1) drunk, 2) in a whirlpool/hot tub thing 3) talking to this guy you might know and 4) technically still v/la so peace out.
SOFT-DEADLINE MOVED TO TUESDAY AT 8PM. (jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, today, right now this very moment, is 9:34pm on Thursday, December 6th.)
PS: Lekkit, quite attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now. Deal with the fact that you don't like me calling you out for lurking.
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SOFT-DEADLINE MOVED TO TUESDAY AT 8PM. (jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, today, right now this very moment, is 9:34pm on Thursday, December 6th.)
I'll note that the time raerae notes above is 10:39 p.m. on Thursday, December 6th, forum time.
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PS: Lekkit, quite attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now. Deal with the fact that you don't like me calling you out for lurking.
Being IC makes you town, but it doesn't give you the perfect scum radar. "The IC says I'm scum without a real case. Guess it muat be true..." Doesn't work that way. And I feel a lot more attacked than attacking. There is just no way of pleasing you. If I son't post, you ask me to. If I respond to you, you tell me not to. I'm fine with you calling me out for lurking, but do you seriously mean I'm the scummiest around?
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Haven't had time to write up detailed thoughts with quotes, but just want to get quick notes out there to get this game moving again.
I'm getting bad vibes so far from Lekkit, Jimmmmmm, yuma, and Robz.
Lekkit lurked very hard at the beginning of the game, and then when called out on it he snapped back at the IC with a "I'd vote for you if you weren't IC." There is absolutely no need to be antagonistic against the IC. None. It's almost like he has been trying to build up fake cases against scummy town-behavior and forgot that you can't do that to an IC.
Robz appeared to be somewhat less than fully supportive of a Lynch all Lurkers policy, which is not the Robz I know. Is this because one of his scumbuddies is lurking? I think the "excited to be scum" thing still stands to some extent as well.
Jimmmm suspected Robz might be SK, and while it's a clever idea, there's less than a 50% chance that there even is a SK, so the odds that any one particular person is SK is like less than 4%, whereas the chance that someone is mafia is more like 20%. I know SK hunting is considered kind of a "classic" scumtell but maybe someone with more mafia experience than me can weigh in on whether that's actually valid.
yuma just gave me a scum yuma vibe. I admit it's barely a case, let alone even a weak one. But think about this: yuma was not "scummy" in MXIV. He was scum though. If you thought he was scum D1 in that game, you probably wouldn't have a "case" because there wasn't much evidence. But you'd be right. I'm not gonna look for scummy behavior when trying to decide if yuma is scum. I'm gonna look for scum yuma behavior. This might just be in the front of my mind because I was recently yuma's scumbuddy and saw how he managed to completely avoid suspicion, but I do want to see some more attention paid to him.
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Got some other commitments at the moment, will be back here with something useful over the weekend.
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Alright, gonna go through person by person as best I'm able:
Eevee - 16 game posts:
--- Fewer posts than I remembered on my first readthrough. First two posts (#76/#103) are pretty contentless. I probably disagree with Eevee and Robz assertion that having Raerae as our IC is unlucky. I think for town, our main focus is finding scum; for scum, their main focus is appearing town. Having an unknown for an IC makes it harder to pander to her for scum, since they don't have a meta on her or what she finds scummy.
Still, this is no reflection on Eevee's alignment, so moving on. #130 is Eevee's first "real" post, wherein he addresses the Vig debate by not taking sides. He does however, come out against Robz for the way Robz is making his case. This comes off a little scummy to me. I can understand not having an opinion on the issue (although with Eevee being in more games than anybody but Robz, I don't understand how he[/] doesn't), but the final sentence of the post basically reads "Robz says he isn't good at expressing himself on theory, but I'm going to ignore that and say that I don't like the way he's expressing himself". It just doesn't sit right.
In #174, Eevee says that Raerae is doomed, unless scum can find a more powerful PR. But I'm not sure I agree. Scum can kill off an IC anytime before lylo - sure, often the earlier the better - but given that scum know who the town players are (discounting a possible IC), I find it more likely that scum will kill off the vocal, active, and productive townies first. An IC, if her reads are off-base, is very valuable to scum. It's not a black-and-white issue. That said, Raerae DOES start with the largest target on her back.
Posts #180 and #184 are both generic responses to being voted on by Cayvie ("For doctor hunting"). #187 really stands out as a bit scummy though. His (to paraphrase) "Who? Little 'ol me? /innocentface" post is a poor attempt at self-meta. Up to this point nothing has been super super scummy, but this post is a scum-score jumper.
His next post, #193, is a bit tough to read. He's essentially putting himself in Robz place, and saying "man, if I was scum, I wouldn't have said something so scummy, so Robz must be town" - Well, you didn't say it Eevee. Robz did. So what should I read from you here? Your acknowledging it, while saying you wouldn't have said it as scum, feels like a forced attempt at saying "look how town I'm being!". Dunno. Weird vibes on this post.
His next post is a ways down, #254, where he drops back in and attempts to restart RVS? But then claims it was a joke in #266, yet also says in that same post that it wasn't? Yeah, this sequence confused me. His vote on me was... Meh? I wish he'd given more of an explanation other than "someone [me, hi] just posted all of Watno's contributions and they didn't look particularly townie..." (Did they look particularly scummy? You voted me, so I assume so, but you offer no explanation) "... Neither did Galzria's appearance and I have a hard time not having a town read on him...". Again... Ok, but could you explain?
The lack of an explanation wouldn't bother me AS much if he proceeded to do so in a follow up post... But... His next post (#268) was a rather scattered look at Yuma, sandwiched around a "I'm not good at D1 but will be better later" argument that I really despise (not town/scum related, it's just a terrible argument. EVERYBODY is better as the game hours on). At the end of this post he lists some scum scores, again placing me highest, although still without explanation.
In #292, he changes his vote to the quickly growing (he's vote #3) Lekkit wagon for "not participating". Ehh, the vote itself isn't terrible. Most of you know how I feel about lurking... It's just that again, Eevee feels a bit scattered here, and he's not giving any substantial reads or solid explanations for his actions. More content would be nice.
#338 is a not of a fluff post. "Town would act this way... Scum this way". His suggestion that we all do rereads on individual people isn't bad - but it's not something I sit here going "Wow, scum would NEVER say that" either.
#343 and #352 are mostly fluff - a couple of questions at Robz of what he thinks about Lekkit.
In #353, he unvotes Lekkit saying his read was never strong there (funny, I had gathered that), but then votes Cayvie over "If Lekkit is town, there is probably scum on the wagon, and Cayvie is more suspicious than Jimmm".
First off, I really dislike analysis without flip. Unless you've a strong town read on Lekkit (which I gather is not the case), then analyzing his wagon as a scum-on-town wagon is a pretty random way to go. You've no basis for the accusation. It would be like me voting for Eevee right now because "If Lekkit is scum, his partners might have gotten off before the train really got moving, and Eevee fits that perfectly". It's silly. Even if I did think that to be true, a Lekkit lynch would be FAR more informative to my beliefs than an Eevee lynch.
Secondly, the vote on Cayvie again comes with no real analysis. WHY is Cayvie more scummy than Jimm? Don't just state it, explain it!
---
Summary: Not many posts, but a lot of little things that get under my skin. I'm not sure if it's a scum read, or a frustration read with his play. I won't put a scum score down until I can read more people (I want an actual PC, and not my mobile) to get an idea of where he fits in. My expectation is I'll end up with more scum reads than scum out there, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
I'll do another person this afternoon, but generic FoS in the meantime.
(Sorry this was longer than I thought it would be when I set out).
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Bah Humbug for not closing my boxes and ending up with an italicized post that I can't edit.
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Hurray, someone does something! I appreciate the analysis Galz, and can't really disagree with the conclusion of my play not being very good today. When this game started, I was alive in several other games and sadly I still haven't really developed a good feel for this one yet. Not a very good defense though, it would only take a reread to get a better hang of things (like I did with yuma, and that's the one part in your post I disagree with, I examined yuma and tried to draw conclusions which is definitely good town play. Picking yuma for that was maybe stupid because I can't read him to save a life, but he asked for it.).
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Galzria made some good points, and pointed out some things I hadn't noticed. I look forward to his other reads.
@Eevee: that's 3 of your last 5 posts with a comment along the lines of "I just need to reread some people". I don't doubt that it's true that you're just not getting around to it. I'd like to hear more analysis from you. Here's some incentive: vote: Eevee
Also, here's an unofficial vote count:
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, Theorel
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
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to be fair, a bunch of people have been just as lazy as i have. voting for me for lack of contributions is not fair in my opinion. but i guess you think my contributions have been scummy, which is understandable.
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Cuzz: What are you thoughts on Eevee? Scumread, townread? Why?
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Jimmmm suspected Robz might be SK, and while it's a clever idea, there's less than a 50% chance that there even is a SK, so the odds that any one particular person is SK is like less than 4%, whereas the chance that someone is mafia is more like 20%. I know SK hunting is considered kind of a "classic" scumtell but maybe someone with more mafia experience than me can weigh in on whether that's actually valid.
I feel like this either misunderstands or misrepresents my post a little. I wasn't SK-hunting at all, I was putting across a theory which I thought was interesting, but probably not the case. I actually ended the post with "I actually think Robz is probably Town". Of course, having said that he's now my top scum-read.
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Vote Count 1.9
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, theorel
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
Not Voting (5): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Robz888, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Cuzz: What are you thoughts on Eevee? Scumread, townread? Why?
I think Galz made some good points in his long post. But I don't have a particular town read on Galz so I'd wanna reread Eevee before sheeping him.
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to be fair, a bunch of people have been just as lazy as i have. voting for me for lack of contributions is not fair in my opinion. but i guess you think my contributions have been scummy, which is understandable.
Yes, to be clear I'm not voting you for your lack of contributions...I'm voting you because you seem somewhat scummy, you've said 3 times that you wanted to reread and give better analysis, and you've offered only the slightest of reads. However, I think several people have actually started contributing analysis, without rereading here's where I think things stand:
People who have contributed almost no analysis of note (from my perspective). (This means that they've given minmal reads and/or minimal explanations for those reads)
Eevee
Robz
cayvie
Frisk
Abra
Frisk is VLA
Abra is MIA
Robz has claimed outside responsibilities and said he would post soon
cayvie I would like to hear something from, I think I know about 2 of her reads.
Eevee I would like to hear something from, I know a few reads, but little reasoning...And I think he's kind of scummy.
Now, I'd like to hear more from other players, but:
Cuzz recently gave thoughts on 4 players
Jimmmmm's been trickling out analysis as it comes
Axxle has been pretty clear with his thoughts on things as they've happened
yuma's given a scattershot analysis (i.e. a brief snippet on everyone)
Lekkit's commented on at least a few people, although he's been mired in an argument with the IC, he seems to have come out of lurking for the moment.
Galzria has started writing tomes, I expect more are to come, but hey those take time
(Note to Galzria: I don't expect more tomes in the sense that you'd better write up a page on everyone or else, but in the sense that I expect you to end up writing a tome on each player you analyze)
So ultimately, I feel like you and cayvie are the most deserving of votes for lacking analysis. You've accompanied your lack of analysis with suggestions that others do it, and promises that you're going to try as well. Near as I can tell, others are doing it, you're still the one sitting on your hands.
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I'm gonna try and get another done tonight. I've started, but I'll have to finish once the girlfriend is in bed (how's that for dedication for you? - And I'll let you all decide exactly what I'm talking about).
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I'm gonna try and get another done tonight. I've started, but I'll have to finish once the girlfriend is in bed (how's that for dedication for you? - And I'll let you all decide exactly what I'm talking about).
Wink wink nudge nudge?
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Cuzz: What are you thoughts on Eevee? Scumread, townread? Why?
I think Galz made some good points in his long post. But I don't have a particular town read on Galz so I'd wanna reread Eevee before sheeping him.
anything in particular? Good points such as.... but yes I would recommend a reread
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Going to be VLA today and possibly tommorrow.
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Picked Cuzz for a reread, pleased to see he only has 12 posts so this should be easy. If you feel uneasy about me picking my reread targets myself, just tell me who to read like yuma did earlier.
1st post he talks a bit about XII, and concludes he doesn't like a massclaim in this setup. Thinks vig should shoot if he thinks he has a good reason.
2nd post he thinks yuma voting and insta-unvoting Robz when it's still practically RVS is scummy. I don't necessarily agree with his take on the events, but definitely trying to do analysis and I disagree with a lot of people on what's scummy and what's not.
3rd post he defends himself for yuma's accusations of "trying to make a case about something very very minor". I side with Cuzz here, if you don't call out the little scummy things you notice in the early game, we never get out of RVS.
4th post is fixing quoting issues.
5th post agrees with Frisk that Robz not wanting to restart the game is scummy. Again, I don't necessarily agree, and this could be read as trying to force cases on townies (in case Robz and yuma are both town), but it's still taking a position and having your vote where your read. Good play.
6th clarifying question.
7th another
8th Continues his suspicion on Robz for different reasons.
9th Has a gut read that yuma is scum, can't explain it. Says he still finds Robz scummy too, but yuma more so. Calls out abra and lekkit for lurking.
10th Meta question to Galz.
11th Soft deadline discussion.
12th Longer post. Gets bad vibes from Lekkit, Jimmmmmm, yuma, and Robz. Gives reasons for all of these. Consistent with his what he has said earlier.
13th When asked, says Galzria's case against me made sense, but wants to reread me first before making a decision because he isnt convinced Galzria is town. This is actually a pretty major town point for me, because it could be argued he was trying to "rush" some lynches earlier in that he didn't defend anyone, but found several people scummy. Well, he doesn't defend me (who I know to be town), but certainly doesn't try to rush my lynch either.
Overall, I think he has been on the quiet side but has contributed nicely and is on the record for his read. Definitely don't think we should lynch him today, I'd put him on the light town read category.
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Interesting; this town seems to be pushing day 1 analysis more than most i've been in. Galzria called Eevee out for not providing analysis on his vote for me, and theorel criticized Eevee and me for "lacking analysis".
In general, I'm not a particularly analytical player. I'll provide some reads though:
Town
cayvie - obv
raerae - obv
Likely Town
jimmmmm - posts are full of content, and new information. i like how he brings up new avenues of conversation.
theorel - another player with tons of content. possibly the highest content/post ratio i've seen in a game. and it sounds genuine.
Robz - all over the place. trying to pick little fights with people (theorel re: vig analysis), complaining mildly about the Robz Voting Stage, etc. Reads like normal Robz to me, so probably a power role.
Got Nothing
Captain_Frisk - nothing there
Abra655 - here either
yuma - I can't read you. i think it's hilarious that you find me to be the hardest player to read. you're up there for me too. not sure i've ever gotten a valid read on you.
Galzria - I feel like his moves have been somewhat forced so far; he replaced a lurker who was attracting suspicion, so I feel he had to push his day 1 analysis a little harder than usual--so I don't really read anything into the fact that he did/is doing so. The case on Eevee is interesting to me. I too find Eevee scummy, and yet I feel like Galz makes too much of some of the evidence. For example, I didn't find Eevee saying I was scummier than Jimmmmm without analysis particularly out-of-place; the exhortation of "Don't just state it, explain it!" seems a bit much to me.
cuzz - i mostly agree with eevee here about getting a light town read. i do think that accusing Jimmmmm of "SK-hunting" is a little inaccurate--he ended the post with an admission that he thinks robz is "probably town".
Kinda Scummy
Axxle - A lot of posts are trolly one-liners. That seems out-of-character for him.
Eevee - I can't shake the feeling that there's something off about his play. On reread, I'm not as sure as I was at the time that he was trying to scare out the doc. Still keeping him in this category based on, y'know, vibes and stuff.
Lekkit - Lurks, gets called out for it, responds with snark and aggression toward the IC. Yeah, not winning any townpoints here.
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Galzria - I feel like his moves have been somewhat forced so far; he replaced a lurker who was attracting suspicion, so I feel he had to push his day 1 analysis a little harder than usual--so I don't really read anything into the fact that he did/is doing so. The case on Eevee is interesting to me. I too find Eevee scummy, and yet I feel like Galz makes too much of some of the evidence. For example, I didn't find Eevee saying I was scummier than Jimmmmm without analysis particularly out-of-place; the exhortation of "Don't just state it, explain it!" seems a bit much to me.
This is very misleading, as at the time of my replacing in and making my first post on Robz, not a single mention of "the scumminess of my predecessor" had been made. So to claim that I've "replaced a lurker who was attracting suspicion, so I feel he had to push his day 1 analysis a little harder than usual" isn't exactly accurate.
The amount of analysis D1 isn't unusual. It has more to do with the players than anything else. Theorel and Yuma are both analytical players. They don't just push reads because they feel like it. I'll do the legwork myself if I feel up to it - see M-XI. When I joined this game, stuff happened for all of 3 hours. Then it sat here dead. The only way to get anything to happen in a dead thread is to do rereads - and the best way to represent those rereads is through bodies of analysis. So that's what you get. If the game had actually been moving, I probably wouldn't have bothered.
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Vote: Eevee
I like Galzria's case against Eevee, although I realize I just frankly have no idea what scum Eevee looks like. But there are some quirks in his behavior, the ones that Galzria pointed out. I do have quite a townread on Galzria now--the tone of that post struck me as very town!Galz--so I will add my vote to Eevee.
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The difference in my playstyle you are all noticing from the beginning of the game was just being in too many games and not being particularly into this one yet.
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Who's up next? Cayvie!
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Cayvie: Posts 25 game posts
--- I get the reverse of Eevee here. Cayvie actually has more posts than I recall on my first read through of the thread.
Her first post, #147, is quite a ways in! The game had been launched for more than 24 hours, and the "To restart or not" debate was currently happening - well past the point of theory/vig/etc talk. Her point in this post about not caring about restarting then shouldn't come as a surprise - She hadn't actually done anything to date! This is very much a non-issue, as to claim that it is either scummy OR townie is to make a claim against RL, and has no merit on her alignment this game. This is doubly true because the 2nd (the day the game began) was a Sunday, and she's usually V/LA on weekends.
#152/#158 are fluff posts. (She votes for the mod, and acknowledges Volt's statement that the game isn't broken). #164 is her first "real" post, even if it's only 1 sentence long. Here, she claims her read on Robz is town, but has no reads on anybody else. --Cayvie, explain in more detail? Was it because of the Vig debate, or was it something else? You had no interactions with him or anybody else up to that point.--
#169 is pretty much a fluff post - just a short comment on the uselessness of trying to figure out the setup mistake. #173 also falls under fluff, although it was a ever-so-slight rebuttal to Frisk's claim that I had been the only player to hit scum with a Vig shot.
#178 - Ahh, finally we get something worth looking at from Cayvie. She votes here for Eevee for trying to expose the Doctor. This is interesting to me, because I'll fully admit that I do SEE where she's coming from... but when I first replaced in and was reading the thread sequentially, I read Eevee's post and thought nothing of it. To point, I really have a hard time seeing Scum!Eevee fishing in such a... hidden manner. That is, I don't think that many other players besides Cayvie read Eevee's post to be what Cayvie claimed it was. Now, like I said, I do understand what Cayvie is saying here, and if Eevee is scum, I think that a more direct purpose to his post was not to publicly out the Doctor, but to try and get said Doctor to do the obvious choice tonight, and Doctor Raerae, thus allowing scum to kill elsewhere.
However, this is not a post on Eevee, but a post on Cayvie - so my thoughts as they relate to Cayvie in #178 are a bit mixed. If Cayvie is scum, he brought a conversation (Doctor) to the attention of the thread, increasing the likelihood that if the Doctor is out there, they'll let something slip. Had she said nothing, that comment by Eevee looked like it was going to slide by unnoticed - a perfect opportunity for scum to pin the PR hunting on somebody else. Thus on the flip side, if Cayvie is town, she brought a conversation (Doctor) to the attention of the thread, increasing the likelihood that if the Doctor is out there, they'll let something slip. (see what I did there?) In this case, while I understand the intent of Town!Cayvie to protect a possible Doctor, I don't think it was good play on her part to say something. Overall then, this gives me a very slight scum read on Cayvie. It's not at all outside the realm of possibility that either Scum!Cayvie or Town!Cayvie would make that post, but I just think it slightly, slightly more likely for Scum!Cayvie would do so.
#181, #183 & #186 are all posts expounding upon the issue I discussed above. They explain why Cayvie thought what she did about Eevee's post, and lament the fact that her saying anything at all caused the exact issue she was trying to avoid. Like I said, I can see this *nearly* equally from both Town!Cayvie, and Scum!Cayvie, but lean just slightly to scum.
I DO like Cayvie's post #188, but only because it calls out Eevee on his "Who, little 'ol me? /innocentface" post, which I find to be one of Eevee's more scummy posts. This gives a LITTLE bit of a town read to Cayvie, although if Eevee is town, it is a VERY easy post for scum to comment on for easy town points. Still, Cayvie didn't attack the post, but just gave a "Oh don't you even try that" response - which is more in line with Town!Cayvie than Scum!Cayvie, I think.
#190 is an answer to an interesting question by Axxle - "If you noticed this Doctor-Hunting by Eevee - and felt it needed to be called out - why didn't you notice Robz mentioning Doctor AND Cop twice in a previous post?". I didn't feel Cayvie gave a particularly great response here. "I just didn't notice it" really doesn't fly with me - however, it's the sort of oversight PROBABLY made more often by town than by scum, UNLESS scum intentionally ignored a post by their teammate. Here, I'll briefly refer back to Cayvie's post #164, where she calls Robz a town read. It's not exactly a STRONG connection between the two, but it is in my opinion, worth noting. If Robz or Cayvie dies at some point in the future, and either flip scum, I would refer back to this. That's a long way off however, and for now I'm content giving Cayvie a little bit of a town read for this oversight.
#197 is a bit of a fluff post. It reads a *little* bit like "Look how helpful I'll try to be! Isn't that townie of me?" - but really, that's a stretch of an interpretation, and I fully admit it. When I do rereads, I tend to do so with a "Is this something Scum!X would do", so I'm more likely to see simple things as scum conspiracies. That's not to completely disregard my reads on things like this, but I do take them (even from myself) with a grain of salt. This post could very easily just be fluff.
#200 offers post-counts, always fun. Not townie or scummy in the least. Moving on.
#247 speaks to something I thought when I read the post Jimmmmm made about Robz=SK - Oooh, I'm gonna like playing with him. That's a good theory. Other than striking a nice chord with me, pretty fluffy post.
#250 bothers me a little bit, but more from a player perspective - I never forget who I'm voting for when I'm town, or scum. If I'm scum, I'm constantly aware of my image - and that shines no brighter than where I place my vote. As town, I don't vote unless I see a reason to, and if I see a reason to, I'm not going to casually forget. My vote is my voice, and I treat it as the final word. All these posts mean nothing if I don't take my vote seriously. Some players use their vote more of a scum hunting tool - because scum hate having votes cast on them - but even for those people I fully expect them to remember what they're doing and where their vote is. "Not recalling" is a simple way of abdicating responsibility, and I don't like it. Still, this is as I said a playstyle issue, not a scummy vs townie issue. So meh.
In #276 Cayvie puts down her thoughts on a soft-deadline - agreeing that it's a good thing. I personally agree, and would expect most town to agree and most scum to disagree - and with that said, people's feeling on the issue are no longer relevant to alignment in my mind, because it's a pretty obvious thing to say, and it's something VERY easy for scum to score "easy townpoints" on - and honestly, even a single town member thinking it's a bad idea can wrench up the whole thing. So scum say it's good, town says it's bad, town says it's good, scum say it's bad - not relevant to any arguments.
#277 and #284 are fluff posts. #302 is fluff.
#311 asks Jimmmmm where he gets that Cayvie is "buddying up" to Robz - Well, it's not strong, but as I've noted above, this "buddying up" does in fact exist. It's not something I would build a case around, but it IS something that I'm aware of.
#329 - This is a big post for me in my reread of Cayvie. It's the 4th vote cast on Lekkit (would've been 5th, but Theorel had recently unvoted). It's really not offered with much of an explanation other than the joke about "Vote: Lurkit" - Yes, we get it, Lekkit was lurking. And I'm not at all opposed to pressure, even for no other reason than to put on pressure and get a response. I'm also not going to analyze a Lekkit's wagon without a flip - but the lack of reasoning on this vote bothers me in much the same way that Eevee's vote #3 on Lekkit did - It's a growing wagon, with (in Cayvie's case) the IC voting for it 15 minutes prior to when Cayvie did. It looked good, and was excusable because hey, the IC thought so! ..... Scum points for Cayvie here. Not a ton because this seems to be a problem that's common lately. "Let's just vote and not explain why! Yaaaay!" .... But it's play that I really don't like. If you're town, in WHAT way is your "ambiguity" in your votes pro-town? What does it give your fellow town players to analyze about YOU? How is blindly voting at ALL beneficial?
Bah.
#330 was a fluff post.
#345 and #365 at least go on a LITTLE bit to give an explanation to Cayvie's vote (something I didn't feel Eevee ever did, which is why I think Eevee gets a slightly higher scumscore from me on this issue). In #345 Cayvie simply points out that if a player's entire meta is "lurk" as town, that it shouldn't be that hard to match that meta as scum. -- While I agree 100% with this, the question I have is.... Do you then see his "lurking" as more or less likely to result in him being town if that's how he always plays town? Your vote on him suggests that you think his lurking -THIS GAME- is more egregious and more likely to be scum-driven than his lurking in previous games where he was town. As for #365, Cayvie says the IC should expect to be sheeped... ehh... I don't know. It reads as *slightly* scummy to me, but at the same time I don't entirely disagree. I doubt that I would ever cast my vote on somebody with the sole reason that "Well, my IC did", but Cayvie does make a correct point in that at least we know Raerae won't be trying to mislead us. Eh, probably neutral overall on that statement. It rubs me wrong, but I couldn't exactly put my finger on it, so won't make what could be a false accusation over it.
#386 --- Holy crap! A post from Cayvie that is MORE than 3 lines long! There's only been ONE of these so far, and it was 5 lines! .... Ok, maybe the sarcasm isn't called for. I know Cayvie's style isn't mega posting, and she often jots down quick ideas and posts them. Still, this post gave me an "OMG wow" reaction. +town points for Cayvie. If she's scum, she could've stuck to her normal style of posting, but she put in a little more effort.
As to the post itself:
"Robz - all over the place. trying to pick little fights with people (theorel re: vig analysis), complaining mildly about the Robz Voting Stage, etc. Reads like normal Robz to me, so probably a power role." This really, really, REALLY bothers me. Look, if you want to call him town, go right ahead, but dear lord... what the heck are you doing calling him out as a "likely PR?" - I know you were probably just making a joke that "Robz is *always* a PR, so "Robz as usual" must mean he's a PR", but c'mon - if you're town you don't go around saying things like that! Sheesh! ((Note, this could be an elaborate ploy by Scum!Cayvie, she's certainly cunning enough, but if she honestly felt the above statement to be true, she could've just not said anything and brought it up in the scum QT at night))
I've already pointed out the fallacy with her comment on me regarding the "suspicion on Watno" when I replaced in.
However, across the board I'm at least happy to see reads on each of the players, and something to refer back to when she or anybody else in the future flips their alignment. Her list was a little bit more than a simple scum-ordering, which is easy for scum to manipulate. She gave actual reads, and that is at the very least pro-town.
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And that's it!
Summary:
-- Very, very tough to read. She has a LOT less things that strike me as scummy than Eevee does, so her overall scum score is probably lower. She has a solid mix of "slightly townie" posts, and "slightly scummy" posts. Her interactions with others, while often brief, interest me more than the interactions Eevee had though. If at some point in the future we learn her alignment, I think we'll learn more about other people than we would by seeing Eevee's alignment. The biggest knock that I have against Cayvie is the vote on Lekkit, but I think that's going to apply to multiple people (I already know that it does with Eevee). Cayvie is in a position that I very easily could see scum wanting to be: Not too townie that she should expect to be NK'd if town, but not too scummy to be suspected as a prime lynch candidate. That said, I don't think she's a prime lynch candidate, so eh. What did we say a neutral scum score was? 25? I'd probably place Cayvie at 27, maybe 28.
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Next read to come when I can.
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Vote Count 1.10
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (4): yuma, Axxle, theorel, Robz888 {L-3}
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
Not Voting (4): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Can we lynch eevee and end the day per our ic's orders?
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Cayvie voting for Lekkit shortly after I did seemed a smidge odd but not too much as I don’t think we were the first ones on that boat.
you're an IC, get used to being sheeped :)
this isn't to imply that your reads are more accurate than anyone's in particular, but at least i know that you're not trying to mislead or distract me with your posts.
Thanks, cayvie. That makes sense.
Also, to all you other goobers: I am 1) drunk, 2) in a whirlpool/hot tub thing 3) talking to this guy you might know and 4) technically still v/la so peace out.
SOFT-DEADLINE MOVED TO TUESDAY AT 8PM. (jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, today, right now this very moment, is 9:34pm on Thursday, December 6th.)
PS: Lekkit, quite attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now. Deal with the fact that you don't like me calling you out for lurking.
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@Eevee: I appreciate the effort there. I liked your analysis of yuma better (in that it was less padded with information).
This post looks really big, but ultimately says very little...this bothers me a bit, but I understand that it could just be a style-issue rather than an alignment issue. Anyways, I've edited it down to what you actually *said* to make the point.
Picked Cuzz for a reread, pleased to see he only has 12 posts so this should be easy. If you feel uneasy about me picking my reread targets myself, just tell me who to read like yuma did earlier.
2nd post he thinks yuma voting and insta-unvoting Robz when it's still practically RVS is scummy. I don't necessarily agree with his take on the events, but definitely trying to do analysis and I disagree with a lot of people on what's scummy and what's not.
3rd post he defends himself for yuma's accusations of "trying to make a case about something very very minor". I side with Cuzz here, if you don't call out the little scummy things you notice in the early game, we never get out of RVS.
5th post agrees with Frisk that Robz not wanting to restart the game is scummy. Again, I don't necessarily agree, and this could be read as trying to force cases on townies (in case Robz and yuma are both town), but it's still taking a position and having your vote where your read. Good play.
12th Longer post. Gets bad vibes from Lekkit, Jimmmmmm, yuma, and Robz. Gives reasons for all of these. Consistent with his what he has said earlier.
13th When asked, says Galzria's case against me made sense, but wants to reread me first before making a decision because he isnt convinced Galzria is town. This is actually a pretty major town point for me, because it could be argued he was trying to "rush" some lynches earlier in that he didn't defend anyone, but found several people scummy. Well, he doesn't defend me (who I know to be town), but certainly doesn't try to rush my lynch either.
Overall, I think he has been on the quiet side but has contributed nicely and is on the record for his read. Definitely don't think we should lynch him today, I'd put him on the light town read category.
Anyways, cayvie's post brought it out to me but: I said that I'd like to see analysis from people, but really what I'm looking for is information I can judge. For example: Axxle hasn't given any analysis posts, but I know where he stands on things, because he has clearly stated so. Each vote has been accompanied by a reason, not a long drawn out case, but a simple straight-forward reason. Anyways, mostly I want conversation...stuff said you can be held to later. If that's analysis in the sense of a reread with points made, great. If it's just stances and reads, that's fine too.
Ultimately, I'm bad at conversation, and I find it easier to reread and analyze than engage in conversation...I naturally suggest this to others. If you find it easier to spark up a conversation and get involved, do that. What I'm trying to point out with my request for analysis is players I feel are (or were) disengaged from the game, lurking, acti-lurking, whatever you want to call it.
@Robz: your given reason for your vote is a town-read on Galzria. But the person you have a town-read on didn't feel that his argument merited a vote. Could you give a fuller explanation of why you felt his case needed your vote?
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To be fair Theorel, I felt it didn't need my vote yet. I don't want to burn unnecessary time, but if we're working to a soft deadline I want to do reads on as many people as I can before that point - and voting/lynching prematurely or before I get the chance to do that would not be in the interest of the town in my opinion. Others are perfectly free to do as they please until then.
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To go along with some posts... not everyone has to do the Galz/Voltgloss style of large reread posts. It is something I tend to do, but certainly not always, and certainly shouldn't be a requirement for the game. I like to do those because I can just type out a stream of conscious and develop my reads that way. But sometimes the game just doesn't flow like that. I do think one problem with them is that it makes conversation difficult, but this game hasn't been high in conversation in the way that others sometimes are.
Mostly I would just like people to express opinions, express why they have those opinions (espec
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@Theorel, well, perhaps I found his case more compelling than he did, I suppose? I don't know why he didn't vote, there's no reason not to. But it looks like perhaps he wanted to read everybody first.
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Abra has not responded to his prod. Someone knows him IRL, right? No need to reply here, but you might implore him to post, or I may need to seek a replacement.
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Abra has not responded to his prod. Someone knows him IRL, right? No need to reply here, but you might implore him to post, or I may need to seek a replacement.
Dsell does. You might PM him as I am not sure if he is following this game or not...
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Seeking an immediate sub for Buffyverse Mafia. PM me.
I'm a little confused as to why you would say that...
Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm / Abra scumteam? Thoughts?
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Hmm... I read nothing into it. ScumJimmm would be more likely to send ash a private pm I think. But perhaps scumJimmm posted instead of pmed to throw us off...
No.... I can't read anything into it.
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This is why I hate active players referencing active games out of thread.
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Cuzz: What are you thoughts on Eevee? Scumread, townread? Why?
I think Galz made some good points in his long post. But I don't have a particular town read on Galz so I'd wanna reread Eevee before sheeping him.
anything in particular? Good points such as.... but yes I would recommend a reread
Still haven't had time for a full reread on Eevee (>100 exams to grade this weekend) but the points from Galz about Eevee's #187 and #353 seem worth considering, especially the latter. Looking at a wagon on someone who very well may be scum, and assuming there's scum on it, and then voting someone on that wagon maaaaaybe makes sense if the wagon was super quick and large and without great reasons, but I don't think that applies to the Lekkit wagon.
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All right folks, this is the next thread I'm catching up on. I'm going to start back at my last post and reread. Some of my responses may not make sense based on what's happened after, but you'll get my honest reaction to it as if I had been following live. I haven't read anything since my last post as of this writing.
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Regarding eevee / cayvie and doctor outing
I wasn't, but that explanation does make sense.
I want to vote eevee for buddying as per usual... but this is so firmly entrenched as eevee meta, (and then my meta for being anti-eevee over buddying) that I'm going to leave it alone.
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ugh i've already screwed this up
see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.
Honestly cayvie - it seems like you're the one talking about the doctor - rather than eevee.
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you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
Do you have a specific quote here? I was scum with Eevee in that game and never felt like any of us were calculating masterminds!
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I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
This is actually a pretty good reason to vote for me. I salute Frisk for catching it.
It's also something I would have obviously self-filtered if I were scum.
I do not think Eevee was trying to out the Doctor, because Eevee isn't like that.
I agree that you may have self filtered as scum, but you're also bold enough to do it anyway. Either way, it was good enough for a day 1 vote.
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super-early postcounts!
Robz888: 26
Axxle: 18
cayvie: 13
yuma: 12
Eevee: 8
Captain_Frisk: 7
raerae: 7
Jimmmmm: 5
Cuzz: 4
theorel: 3
Lekkit: 3
Watno: 2
Abra655: 2
theorel has the least lurky 3 posts ever
Robz is taking heat early, which is pretty normal for Robz. I intended to unvote him earlier, but apparently forgot, anyways I'll unvote now since I'm not really comfortable with my vote there.
As far as the set-up error goes, my guess is that they made a mistake in some step of the randomization (like leaving scum players in the pool when determining power roles for instance, swapping roles around the number ranges, or messing up the ranges). We don't know what the error was, but based on the conversation it COULD have resulted in an invalid C9++ set-up, but didn't. This suggests to me that the power role randomization was a bit off. What we know is that the end result is a valid C9++ set-up. So, I personally am going to assume that probability-based analysis on role existence has the potential to be flawed due to the error, unless I am told otherwise. So I will not argue: "he claimed doctor, but there's only a 5% chance of doctor given other information so I'm doubting the claim". Only binary, i.e. "there cannot be 2 1-shot vigs, so the person claiming 1-shot vig after a 1-shot vig has already died is obviously lying and needs to be lynched".
Now other stuff:
@Frisk: I think the only simulations we've run were by me in VIII about the 2-shot vig. And so in a uniform-random decision-making town the 2-shot vig improved win-% by about 10% (if I remember). 1-shot vig reduced win-% by about 10% I think also (this was the result of changing the parity). SO, a 1-shot vig should only shoot if we have other parity changes (from i.e. a doctor or SK or nolynch). I think this is one of those situations where Robz disagrees in the same fashion as Galzria did. 1 more town player helps town if it changes the parity to odd, but doesn't if it changes the parity to even. Therefore I would rather have 1 extra town-directed kill than have 1 extra town player hanging around day2. This is a difference of opinion, and I recognize that though, ultimately the vig needs to decide where they stand on it.
I'm going to Vote: Axxle because I find his behavior thus far somewhat suspicious. He seems to be trying to generate suspicions and inflame arguments.
As if on queue after a vote count exposes lurky behavior, theorel brings out the trademark mega post?
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Galzria has subbed in for Watno.
Thank you.
And now its a real game! Welcome Galz!
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It's become that there are 2 RVS stages at the beginning of every game: the Random Voting Stage, and then the Robz Voting Stage, where everybody votes for Robz.
Can you remind me which RobZ is town and which one is scum? You seem pretty reasonable this time around.
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Laptop dying - will resume later.
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Shraeye has subbed in for Abra655. Mod considered the known twinclaim, had no issue with it.
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It's become that there are 2 RVS stages at the beginning of every game: the Random Voting Stage, and then the Robz Voting Stage, where everybody votes for Robz.
Can you remind me which RobZ is town and which one is scum? You seem pretty reasonable this time around.
Meta says: The reasonable one is the scum one.
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Shraeye has subbed in for Abra655. Mod considered the known twinclaim, had no issue with it.
Oh my gawd, I just can't go anywhere without him, can I?!
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Shraeye has subbed in for Abra655. Mod considered the known twinclaim, had no issue with it.
Oh my gawd, I just can't go anywhere without him, can I?!
(http://i.qkme.me/3s47s8.jpg)
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Got some other commitments at the moment, will be back here with something useful over the weekend.
@Robz: where's the more useful contribution? Or did sheeping Galzria qualify?
I really want to hear from shraeye, I don't mind neutral reads, but I dislike having null-reads. I'm glad to be hearing from Frisk.
At this point, (as compared to my scattershot analysis) Galzria seems townier, Robz seems a bit scummier, Lekkit seems a bit scummier (I know he went VLA, but his scumScore included an expectation of future activity, and the VLA killed that expectation. Depending on contributions starting tomorrow his scumminess is pretty volatile) and everyone else is holding steady.
This means that two of my highest scum-reads are voting Eevee with me, which means I should probably move my vote. Yeah, I think that's the thing to do, so: Vote: Robz. I understand he may be trying to change his meta after being lynched early so many times, but it's so hard not to read his behavior in this game as scummy (mostly the lots-of-theory not attacking anyone feel, although the measured response to accusations definitely contributes a bit).
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Vote Count 1.11
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, Robz888
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
Not Voting (4): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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Frisk! Nice to have you back in the land of the awesome, I look forward to reading your thoughts.
I don't like the Eevee lynch. Maybe he seems different to those of you who have known him but nothing feels particularly off about him to me. I feel like there are at least two sleazier people I could vote for more comfortably*. It could just be that I can’t stand the thought of that adorable little fluffy cat/rabbit/raccoon thing crying. Who knows?
*Robz & Lekkit. I’ve played out my thoughts on both of these two. Is it necessary to rehash?
Axxle, my latest order is for you to fully read all my future orders. Oh man, now the power is going to go to my head and we’re all in for ride. Ugh.
Honestly though, still trying to get a handle on yuma and cuzz. Don’t have solid thoughts on either of you.
Vote: Robz
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It might be useful to at least remind us what your reasons are; I had to go back and look up why you were voting Robz. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146199#msg146199)
It's mostly a gut feeling, am I right? You read him as "warm and fuzzy" and "semi-condescending" and that rubs you the wrong way?
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Warning vague post coming up. This will be my last post beforeci leave really quick. I don't have a lot of time but want to say that I don't like the robz lynch. I can't explain why now but if I have access in Cali I will explain further. But if I can't I wanted tomake my stance known. Sorry this is vague but it is what it is. Hopefully see you tommorrow.
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Thanks for the helpful link to the Robz case, Cayvie. So many cases against me in so many games, I have trouble keeping them straight. I don't know how to respond to this one: it's just a list of things I said. Oops, I did say them.
But then I scrolled down and saw this, which maybe I missed the first time.
nah, just day 1 silliness. i'll participate by vote: Galzria. someone got to end the RVS.
RVS was long over by then. I really find references to RVS pretty scummy, in that RVS is the scum safe zone. Any attempt to establish the current discussion as part of RVS is rather scummy.
So, Vote: Eevee for that comment.
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Eevee was joking about the Robz Voting Stage.
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you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
Do you have a specific quote here? I was scum with Eevee in that game and never felt like any of us were calculating masterminds!
sure.
(here's the qt in question, if anyone's interested) (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg)
The whole QT is illuminating, but here are some selected Eevee quotes.
Detailed advice for how shraeye could play to best use his stump ability to avoid suspicion:
Assuming it's not, if you are about to be lynched, you should fight VERY hard untl the end, insisting you are town. Try to be obnline at the twilight, and continue you story then. Dont hint them you'll get stumped, try to make it look like you were SO pissed eHalc decided to let you come back to haunt the thread. Once that happens, just pop in the thread and say STUMP! as often and with as big a font as you possibly can, trying to make it look like you really are angry for not getting to live. Vote as little as you possibly can, unless you can do it in a way that looks like you seeking revenge for your killers. Hopefully, if they don't investigate you before your death and if eHalc's flavour isn't too revealing, no one will ever even think of killing you agsin.. after all, you thought you were going to doe and stil said you are town :)
More advice on how to manipulate the town:
While I'm all for using Frisks ability to jest around, it can actually be very very useful as a strategic weapon and that shouldn't be forgotten. You know, we could for example frame werewolves and hope tht implicats soneone. Confusion is pro-mafia.
Planning what townies to attack and what buddies to bus before the day starts:
Sup dawgs! I think that went very well, I was hoping you'd both manage to stay off the wagon. I will be semi-gunning for you for that voting position tomorrow shraeye so be prepared, but I think Lekkit's position is even scummier + his lurkiness will make him a natural target that way too. I also recall he tends to semi-crack under pressure, so I'll be pushing him pretty hard tomorrow (staying consisten with my play today and would they really expect scum to play that way?)
I mean, this isn't like the most MWAHAHA SUPER DEVIOUS CHESSMASTER 2950 ALPHA GREEN play, but I think it's a little naive to say "oh, Eevee wouldn't do that".
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Wow, he's quite a devil in there. Huh.
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He's contributed very little. Lots of theory talk but really, how does that help at this stage of the game? He backed off it pretty quick once I mentioned it being useless. Maybe he just agreed it wasn’t getting us anywhere but he was pretty quick to give it up. Also, he had a lynch all lurkers stance (#98) in the beginning and promptly turns that around (#331) once the Lekkit wagon formed. Lots of insisting he knows the best ways to do everything because he’s played a million times before (fully admit that just rubs me wrong, nothing technically scumtastic about it). Post #192 says a lot to me. It is cocky as a darn rooster. That isn’t a good reason to vote for anyone but it does make me read closer. He basically says, “Yes, excellent reason to vote for me! But obviously I wouldn’t have made this silly sort of mistake if I were a bad guy!” Well, if I were somebody who paid hyper-attention to how other people played you can be I’m paying super-ultra-hyper-attention to how I’m playing. Something about it screams ‘hiding in plain sight’ to me. The argument makes sense, yeah, scum would filter that out. So if scum stops filtering he could look like town, yes?
Also, Robz, yes, my case against you is based on things you said. Instead of, say, your facial expressions…? I’d be more than happy to judge those too though, if you’d like.
Just an aside, I don’t expect anybody to vote with me because I’m the IC. In all honesty, every one of you knows more than I do about the set up of this game as you know both your roll and my mine (more if you’re mafia!) so don’t blindly follow me over the cliff, kids! Think good thoughts about stuff!
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Wow, he's quite a devil in there. Huh.
Tempted to vote for you just because i dont think any of those quotes were particularly devious. All I see was posting from mobile which resulted in a lot of mispellings.
I got a town feel from theorel unvoting me. I usually do when someone tried to derail my lynch when i'm town.
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Just an aside, I don’t expect anybody to vote with me because I’m the IC. In all honesty, every one of you knows more than I do about the set up of this game as you know both your roll and my mine (more if you’re mafia!) so don’t blindly follow me over the cliff, kids! Think good thoughts about stuff!
We don't actually know much more than you. If you're voting for someone other than me, that fact that I know my alignment only makes it a little more likely for me that for that you're voting scum. At least I know that your vote isn't scum-driven.
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Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
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Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Vote: Lekkit
Soft deadline coming up and you want to build a wagon on someone who just replaced a completely absent lurker over a weekend and is probably still rereading?
Oh plus all that other stuff I said a while back about Lekkit being super scummy.
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First of all, I'm not really trying to start a new wagon. I have absolutely no way of proving it, but I was going to park my vote on Eevee when going to bed tonight, unless something came up that would change my mind there.
I don't think a Shraeye lynch would be a good lynch. It's not really informative in any way. What I meant to say was mainly that it's been a day, and we haven't even had a "hello, guys" from him. I do find that a bit strange.
Second of all, starting a wagon a day before the deadline would be bad. Starting a wagon the day before a soft deadline where the rest of the town will lynch the player with the most votes (what I thought we were going to) couldn't be as bad, right?
And "all that other stuff" you said about me was me being lurky and arguing with the IC... A player who was voting for me for reasons I didn't really buy. But I guess defending youself is classified as super scummy behaviour.
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Robz's post that Axxle quotes is the 150th post of the game. Actually it is more like the ~75 of the game because the first post of game start was post 75.
So I don't really think it is that far fetched for someone with only 4 posts to be a scum read. However, I do think it is far fetched to believe that someone could have a strong scum read on any one individual. But perhaps Robz wasn't implying a strong read... but instead was just providing an answer to axxle's consistent questioning.
I don't know. I am not Robz. But I haven't found him to be scummy this game.
I read RobZ's scumread on Watno as more of an anti lurking thing, but if I'm remembering the post count correctly, there are / were plenty of people who qualified.
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nah, just day 1 silliness. i'll participate by vote: Galzria. someone got to end the RVS.
How does voting someone without reasons end RVS?
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I'm fine with raerae deciding.
awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
Eevee why did you vote Galz? What are your thoughts thus far in this game? What is your read on me?
First of all, I thought my joke about ending the Robz Voting Stage was pretty clever.
I voted for Galzria because someone just posted all of Watno's contributions and they didn't look particularly towny. Neither did Galzria's appearance, and I have a hard time not having a town read on him. Got to start somewhere. I'll reread you and comment on the next post.
Ahhh... your RVS was the RobZ voting stage. That is actually pretty clever.
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Man, I don't know why I bothered to sub in - I had forgotten why I stopped playing in three first place. At least, in games that aren't BM anyway.
/shrug
I'm going off to read.
To be clear, it's the nature of the game itself that I don't find to be all that enjoyable. I take my word quite seriously, and don't enjoy having it questioned. Even when I'm scum, which I enjoy playing, it's frustrating to be called a liar - and that's just something personal to me, not having any reflection on anybody else. Quite simply, I don't really find these to be fun after awhile.
Really? You don't like people accusing you of being a liar, so you play a game in which you will be called a liar in every game, and may be forced to lie?
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post about scum scores
Can you remind me what these numbers actually mean in your head? Chance to be scum? Should I take someone with 30 to be 50% more likely in your head to be scum than someone with a 20?
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One thing we do need to consider that I had forgotten about is that Frisk is very V/LA until the deadline proposed. That might not be ideal to not allow a player to participate at all Day 1. I don't know.
Well - I'm back now, and think we should get a move on. Still catching up (on page 8 of 9 @ 50 posts per page), but I'm down with setting a deadline at end of today or tomorrow.
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Cayvie voting for Lekkit shortly after I did seemed a smidge odd but not too much as I don’t think we were the first ones on that boat.
you're an IC, get used to being sheeped :)
this isn't to imply that your reads are more accurate than anyone's in particular, but at least i know that you're not trying to mislead or distract me with your posts.
As town, it's actually important to realize that the IC's reads are actually LESS accurate than your own. The best example is 3 left. 1 IC, you (as town), and 1 scum. You know who the scum is, the IC does not. There's another game going on right now that really emphasizes this.
That's not to say that the IC should be ignored, because you know that any thinking he is doing is not motivated by an attempt to mislead town, but sheeping the IC just because you know they are town is not pro town - and is actually a convenient excuse for scum when mislynching.
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Got some other commitments at the moment, will be back here with something useful over the weekend.
If I hadn't been VLA and completely useless last week, I'd look at this post as an attempt to burn time, but pots kettles etc.
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I'm gonna try and get another done tonight. I've started, but I'll have to finish once the girlfriend is in bed (how's that for dedication for you? - And I'll let you all decide exactly what I'm talking about).
Wink wink nudge nudge?
Man, so much innuendo. I'm surprised you didn't cut some of his quote apart.
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Warning vague post coming up. This will be my last post beforeci leave really quick. I don't have a lot of time but want to say that I don't like the robz lynch. I can't explain why now but if I have access in Cali I will explain further. But if I can't I wanted tomake my stance known. Sorry this is vague but it is what it is. Hopefully see you tommorrow.
Hoping that yuma can make this post before we waste more time. We're down to about 10 bankable days left, right?
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All right - I'm all caught up, but the massive blitz of reading doesn't generate scum reads in the same way that reading a little at a time does. Post count forthcoming.
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1 – Robz888 - 53
2 – Jimmmmm* 26
3 - cayvie -32
4 - Eevee - 23
5 - Captain_Frisk - 30
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 6 + 0?
7 - Lekkit - 12
8 - Cuzz - 18
9 - theorel - 21
10 - Watno >>> Galzria 5 + 28
11 - yuma - 41
12 - Axxle - 56
13 – raerae* - Dawn, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child - 20
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Disclaimer - previous post included pregame etc. etc. etc.
Vote Count 1.11
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, Robz888
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
Not Voting (4): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Of the currently viable wagons, Lekkit is the closest to a lurker lynch, although I do think this is consistent with his town meta.
I'm ok with my RobZ vote for reasons posted and not seeing a compelling reason to change.
I kindof have a bad feeling about Cuzz, but mainly because I don't really remember reading anything of substance from him.
Axxle seems to have a way high post count. This feels out of line with previous games, but I enjoy having active posters around.
The Abra / Shraeye thing just needs to stop ASAP. Shraeye - get in here and read. It only takes an hour.
I think we should definitely get a soft deadline going, but I don't think we should do it if the #1 contender only has 2 or 3 votes. At that point there's very little information regarding who ACTUALLY voted and drove the case vs. the people who just voted because of soft deadline.
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Just did a full but admittedly fairly quick re-read. Cayvie has stood out to me again. She (I've been calling you a he but I'm pretty sure I've seen plenty of people call you a she, so I'll go with that) seems quite certain on Eevee scum and Robz Town. Anyone who's played with her before; is she normally this committed to her reads this early?
In particular, #164 stood out at me as getting a "Town read" on the person who looks/ed most likely to be lynched.
Vote: cayvie
Still a little suspicious of Robz for being all over the place, but I guess maybe he's just always all over the place.
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Also this:
Reads like normal Robz to me, so probably a power role.
If you're Town and you genuinely think Robz has a power role, why are you telling that to the Mafia? This seems like it could be scum either buddying up to a Townie to get Towncred, or trying to protect her scumbuddy.
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She (I've been calling you a he but I'm pretty sure I've seen plenty of people call you a she, so I'll go with that)
It's probably complicated, but she has said she's cool with either / anything you can come with other than "it". Without explicit direction, I use she because it provides more information to those reading the sentence without creating any of the readability problems of the gender neutral pronouns. (The readability problem being the inability of my brain to accept new basic words easily)
I also am somewhat suspicious of her - on account of the "don't talk about the doctor" nonsense with eevee - where she was the one talking doctor, but maybe I'm just not crafty.
Eevee's vote on her seems a little OMGUS though.
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Also this:
Reads like normal Robz to me, so probably a power role.
If you're Town and you genuinely think Robz has a power role, why are you telling that to the Mafia? This seems like it could be scum either buddying up to a Townie to get Towncred, or trying to protect her scumbuddy.
I think this is a joke. RobZ pretends like he has a better chance of drawing power roles than the rest of us, but its just bad math to assume that just because he is RobZ - he's more special than the rest of us.
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post about scum scores
Can you remind me what these numbers actually mean in your head? Chance to be scum? Should I take someone with 30 to be 50% more likely in your head to be scum than someone with a 20?
It's all a bit ambiguous even inside my head, mostly it just forces me to concretify any "x is scummier than y" situations. It's something like chance to flip scum, here's my vague guidelines (which may not be entirely consistent) Within those brackets, it's mostly just an ordering.
100 = I know as a fact this person is scum
60+ = I expect this person to flip scum more likely than not, and am voting for them for that reason.
40+ = I think this person is likely enough to flip scum that I would be satisfied my vote being part of the lynch.
26+ = I find this person suspicious. In the absence of better targets I prefer lynching them at deadline.
25 = neutral read.
24- various stages of town reads. down to:
0 = Confirmed town to me. I wouldn't lynch this person under any circumstances.
Note that mostly I like round numbers, but then if something seems too high or too low I'll work out some intermediate values. So, I decided that Robz was slightly scummy, and gave him a 30. Then I said Eevee is slightly scummy but not as scummy as Robz and gave him a 27. It's entirely possible that if I went in the opposite order Eevee would have had a 30 and Robz a 33 or something. 35 arbitrarily seems a bit high as a scum-value for Robz.
I last said Robz' score had gone up, but at this point Robz' probably back to 30 (he went up to something like 35, but some players that I think are town have claimed town reads on him, so I'm trying to keep it in check)
Also, raerae did set a Tuesday 8pm deadline (which looks like 9pm forum time)
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The reason I initially voted for Eevee doesn't apply now--I didn't get that he was making a joke about the Robz Voting Stage--but I am keeping my vote there because he is way under for posting. He's the biggest lurker who is a non-IC, non-just-replaced-into-the-game-shraeye.
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1 – Robz888 - 53
2 – Jimmmmm* 26
3 - cayvie -32
4 - Eevee - 23
5 - Captain_Frisk - 30
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 6 + 0?
7 - Lekkit - 12
8 - Cuzz - 18
9 - theorel - 21
10 - Watno >>> Galzria 5 + 28
11 - yuma - 41
12 - Axxle - 56
13 – raerae* - Dawn, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child - 20
I know I'm not being active by any stretch (honestly just cant think of anything to say, I've done rereads on two players already though), but it's not really fair to call me a lurker. The post count is low for me, but I'm almost in the middle of the pack for the whole game.
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Vote Count 1.12
Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, theorel, raerae
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, Robz888
Lekkit (2): cayvie, Cuzz
cayvie (2): Eevee, Jimmmmm
shraeye (1): Lekkit
Not Voting (2): shraeye, Galzria
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
5 of your 18 bankable days have been used.
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Vote: Eevee for reasons stated earlier. going to bed now.
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The Abra / Shraeye thing just needs to stop ASAP. Shraeye - get in here and read. It only takes an hour.
I'm getting here. I have some time tonight to start reading. I've been following along very loosely, but not enough to form any reads. Also, I am not Frisk, and a full thorough reading takes much more than 1 hour. I will be fully to-date and participating by 12pm tomorrow, and cannot commit to a faster time schedule.
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Hey guys, I'm working now on catching up, though I'll have to take a hefty break sometime in the evening for another project.
Sorry if this is just me rehashing old things that have already been wrapped up, but apparently Abra said nothing about anything so I think getting my reactions to old stuff will be a good exercise for everyone.
I've only made it up to post 200 right now. Feel free to rerespond, or just drop issues if they've been answered after #200. I'll try to respond to those responses while simultaneously catching up. It'll be ugly as hell, but I really hate catching up on things, which is why I normally stay much more active. Please be forgiving as I try to insert myself into past conversations as if I were always there.
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About who our IC is:
Cool, it's a newbie; it could be a veteran. It really doesn't matter to me. A PR is a PR, and will be only as strong as the person who has it. I disagree with people who say this is bad because we can't bounce meta arguments off her. I've said this before, but I think making arguments on meta just don't work in many cases. It's true that I've seen meta-arguments catch scum, but I've also been mislynched as town due to meta-arguments, and also have seen meta-arguments lead to terrible reads in general. This is not a solid way to scumhunt. Nobody falls into their meta-mould all the time, even if their alignment remains constant.
Yuma's vote on Robz, subsequent Cuzz reaction:
@raerae, my understanding of Yuma is that he was disagreeing with Robz's argument, got frustrated and voted Robz for rage-reasons. Then, he realized that it's bad to vote for rage-related reasons as opposed to read-based reasons. So he unvoted.
about cuzz; this says nothing to me about Yuma's alignment. Cuzz's case on him (post #161) was terrible.
As if he doesn't want to really be the one to pull us all the way out of RVS and have his actions scrutinized too closely.
If he didn't want his actions scrutinized closely, he wouldn't have voted at all. Or left it on a reasonable amount of time and then unvoted. (oh, yuma said this himself in #166). It's super weird that Cuzz said
The point is you seemed to be acting much more cautious than I would expect town to during such an early part of the game.
REally? From his 9 posts up to that point? That's an awfully small amount of things that cause Cuzz to come to the conclusion that Yuma is acting cautiously. This is just a terrible case.
About Yuma; shame on him for voting him back. His rage-Robz-vote was more justified than this vote on Cuzz.
this looks like scum trying to build a case out of something very very minor vote: cuzz
C'mon now, you've all played mafia enough times to know that many players build crappy cases on day 1. Players of all alignments. It irks me when somebody goes "look at this terrible case on me, the only reason somebody would push this bad of a case on a townie IS IF THEYY ARRE SCUUUUMM!!" It makes no sense, every townie is grasping at straws on day 1; bad cases will be made. This sort of tunneling is only anti-town.
If Yuma and Cuzz are town, they will lock into tunneling on eachother for "having bad cases" and do nothing day1 that helps town.
If it's townyuma and scumcuzz, then I'm never going to believe Yuma's case that Cuzz is scum after the hamfisted way Yuma is trying to pull a veil of reason over a vote that is strictly OMGUS.
Now if Yuma is scum, that's a different matter. I'm not going to tell him how to play scum well.
Also, there's the matter of Yuma's self-meta
not that I am not cautious right now. I am always cautious. It is who I am town or scum.
Can somebody else verify if this is true or not? I never ever believe self-meta arguments. I'm going to have to hear from somebody else that you are cautious always, or I simply ignore that argument. It's easy to say things...I'm cautious. I'm not irrational. I'm never inflammatory. Look at me say all those things. (PS: they're not all true)
About Vigs
I disagree with saying that vigs should never shoot unless under town orders. I agree that they shouldn't fire night 1, when many reads are nebulous (barring something crazy with claims, I'll leave this part unspoken). Also, if there is in fact a Vig in this setup, there is a lower probability that some other power role exists, than if there isn't a vig in the setup. So I'm not crazy worried about vigs hitting PRs.
I could understand a one-shot vig (or a regular vig) wanting to treat their role like a modconfirmed town. If they ever get into a lot of suspicion, they can claim vig, shooting that night to prove it. That's not the route I'd take, but it does give utility to the role. To tell a vig never to shoot unless under town orders turns Vig into a named VT. As the scumteam gets more powerful when town has more powerroles, I'm not willing to downgrade a Vig to a named VT.
About cayvie and doc-outing
Axxle had the right idea with this in posts #181/189 (but the vote on cayvie was unnecessary). What Eevee said could only have helped a doc who didn't realize who they should protect. cayvie's statement was much more likely to create discussion around docs. But, there should be no discussion about docs right now. Case closed. Please don't respond to this.
On having theory arguments
They're good normally, but can cause problems, so be wary. If anybody builds a case solely on someones position in a theory argument, I will not hesitate to tell them that that case is crap. It will be. But Watno said something super weird.
I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.
Wait…voting for someone over theory arguments is bad, yet you want to vote Robz for purposefully giving a controversial opinion on a meta-matter. That’s what you just said you shouldn’t do. Watno is on my suspicious list.
It also gave me bad vibes when Jimmmmm was encouraging Robz to say more about theory. Especially because I found our little venture into the theory of vigs entirely useless, time-wasting, and based off the unusual assumption that we even have a vig.
Hi all. I guess this game is well and truly underway.
I think given how much discussion there has been on it, Robz should give more of an all-round Vigilante strategy than just to say "Don't shoot night 1 or unless we tell you to." When would you shoot if you were Vig?
After a little more thought, the "unless we tell you to" part seems like it wouldn't work. If a majority is telling you to shoot, then couldn't that majority simply vote for the person they are telling you to shoot? So unless people think they know who more than one Mafia is, which would probably result in a Town win anyway if true, anyone telling the Vig to shoot someone in particular is going to be a non-majority, so the Vig is going to have to make the decision based on his own reads and/or other people's arguments anyway.
I really can’t put my finger exactly on it, I tried above but I don’t think this really encompasses it. Something about this post doesn’t sit well with me.
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You can take that as as new-ish player's first post on day 1 trying to come up with something to talk about.
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i'd been reading robz as town for most of this game, but man, reading through the QTs for the recently finished XI, I read this and immediately thought of this game:
Munch, I can't emphasize enough how correct Galzria is about this. When accused, the best defense a scum can make is to own up to much of the accusations. See my reaction (as scum) to Voltgloss's Day 2 case against me in M-VIII for a good example of this. I basically said, "Volt is right, I am doing these things he's noticed, here's why I am doing them, but Volt isn't wrong for thinking they incriminate me, I see where he is coming from."
My problem is, when I am town, I have a much harder time agreeing with people's cases against me, and I'm prone to saying the case is terrible or doesn't exist, and I am often lynched for it.
(it's post 128 in this QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/gUG7EJcWc3BWt), i don't know of a better way to link to it :/ )
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That's interesting. However, it also means that Robz has decided he needs to be less defensive when he's Town, so I guess it could go either way.
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OK, I'm up to #300. Saw taht Galz replaced watno.
Cuzz suspects yuma again:
I'm actually really getting an odd vibe that yuma is scum. But it's not one of those things i can really justify with "facts" or "evidence" at this juncture. He just seems like scum yuma to me a bit. It might have something to do with this quote:
awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
which seems really fake to me. It reminds me of a remark I remember him making in MXIV that also seemed a bit over the top.
I'll Vote: yuma again then.
I have to give you some yuma-reading cred since you were scum with him in MXIV. But I suspect this is the tunneling from before still speaking. Nothing yuma has done has made me suspect him at all. REading over his posts in toto, I get a townread here. You gotta objectively look at yuma's posts, forget that he called you scum (gasp! how could he!? Face it, at some point in this game everyone but raerae will have been suspected, and it's not all scumdriven. Sometimes hardly any of it is.) and ask yourself if he really truly looks scummy. Getting out of a tunnel is hard, take it from another insane tunneler.
Let's talk Robz
townread. Not top townread. But a townread.
Jimmm's suggestion that Robz is SK is possible, and I think it's creative. But I agree with Robz here, the conclusion Jimmm reached was not.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
What? So let me get this straight. He could be SK, but you think he's probably town. Still he's your number one scumsuspect. I don't understand completely.
Robz responds to Jimmm by saying it's a good idea, and then Jimm feels buddied (in post 215 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg145934#msg145934)). Let's settle down with all this buddying talk. This is not scumbuddying, it's just a compliment on an interesting idea. Calculated buddying as scum is very different than just saying "good theory." It's systemic. Scum agrees with your reads, your arguments. They encourage others to follow you. See ZM6 for what scum-buddying looks like. I very calculatingly buddy with Eevee day 1, and Galz day 2. Hardcore, and not the innocuous, offhand-compliment kind. More importantly it was done for a reason. I encouraged Eevee to increase his townread on me, he did. I encouraged Galz to increase his scumread on Eevee (pushed too hard, and he instantly suspected me). Scummy buddying is done with a devious purpose in mind. Don't just say "he complimented me...SCUMMMY!!!"
Robz topic blends into Galz discussion
Watno's post (#139) I quoted in the previous mass-post jumped out as suspicious. I really don't like that more than one person has between Galz's takeover and post #300 have said how could anyone have a scumread on Watno with only 4 posts?? I did. That vote looked like a clumsy attempt for novice scum to drum up suspicion on a player who has put himself out there in a possibly controversial way.
In Galz's first post (#225 if you want to read along (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146020#msg146020)) he summarizes 3 points on Robz.
First, that Robz's quick early vote on theorel for disagreeing with Robz was uncharacteristic. It was a vote to emphasize an argument, a terrible vote in my opinion. But it's regularly made by plenty of players. Yuma did this to Robz over the same topic if I recall. That vote didn't look even one-third as suspicious as Watno's vote on Robz.
Second, that Robz likes playing scum. Sure, this is known. But it's a nothing case to say that Robz is scum because he didn't want to restart the game before learning if the mod-error was correctable. I would never want to restart a game if it's possible to fix on the fly. Just because Robz wants to continue playing, this gives us no right to suspect him over a mod-announced error.
Third, that Robz is buddying with the "yeah you're right" argument. In this paragraph, you also say that this is now more of a null read as Robz works on tweaking his townplay.
In the end, you tone this down to slight suspicion and I dislike it. You said your second point was weak, you said your third was now a moot point as Robz tweaks his play overall. But still these are "enough things" that make you "question his townitude"??
This is more subtle than watno's play, but just as bad.
Then there's the bit where Robz forgot that his vote was on theorel. I regularly forget where my vote is at if discussion has changed and a lot of other votes have happened. Unless I'm scum. Then I never forget where my vote is.
Lastly on the topic of Galz, when Axxle votes Galzria and says Galz's interaction with Robz hasn't been better, Galz reacts scummily.
Now, you claim that MY interaction with Robz seems scummy, but you give no details. Was it the post in which I outlined the things that have been said about Robz this game and gave my thoughts on them? If so, please explain.
Was it the post where I questioned Robz scum read (that you pushed him into declaring, and he gave no follow-up to) on Wayno by providing Watno's 4 posts? If so, please explain how my asking him to explain is scummy.
No scumreads without reasons!!...said scum.
Well I think both those posts are scummy, as I stated (with reasons, yay!) above.
Axxle is cool
I'm liking Axxle here. His style. It's good. Theorel doesn't like it.
I'm going to Vote: Axxle because I find his behavior thus far somewhat suspicious. He seems to be trying to generate suspicions and inflame arguments.
I really feel the opposite. My take on Axxle's intervention between cayvie/Eevee was that he diffused that argument and the possible tunneling that could have occurred there. It never seemed to me like he was trying to inflame arguments between two other players as you later clarified.
Another odd thing Jimmmmm says
So it seems our main suspects are Robz, Eevee, Galz and Axxle.
I don't know... day 1 is hard.
I think Robz acting obvscum and claiming that makes him obvtown could very possible be a scum play. You know, WIFOM and all of that.
That's all I really have for now, I'll do a re-read tonight if I have time.
For now, Vote: Lekkit to try to force him out of hiding.
What's weird about this is that one person thus far had voted for Axxle or stated a scumread on him. Just theorel. Galz made a brash statement about Axxle being scum that was devoid of any facts in #282, but that's not the same as serving up a suspect. Robz had made it up to 4 votes, Eevee up to 3, Galz had gotten only 2 votes but Robz had explicitly stated a scumread on Galz (so I'll count that as 3). So let it be noted that Jimmm is paying particular attention to theorel.
Then he makes the statement that Robz is acting so obvscum and claiming that makes him towny. Robz isn't even acting scummy, much less obvscum! What is it, the two compliments for hunting he gave out? Telling the vig not to shoot night 1? (if there is a vig, night one shots are a terrible idea; they will have the same terrible accuracy as day1 lynches do).
Tell me what Robz has done that is obvscum. Voting to make a point on theorel then forgetting his vote was a very bad use of his vote. But that's not obvscum, nor is it even necessarily scum.
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Jimmm's suggestion that Robz is SK is possible, and I think it's creative. But I agree with Robz here, the conclusion Jimmm reached was not.
Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.
What? So let me get this straight. He could be SK, but you think he's probably town. Still he's your number one scumsuspect. I don't understand completely.
Uh, probability. I have 11 suspects, say 3 of them are scum. That puts everyone at a baseline of 27% scum. If my slight scumread on Robz puts him up to say 30-35%, then he's still more likely Town than scum, he's just more likely scum than anyone else. Thus, probably Town but my number one suspect (at that stage).
My SK theory was meant to be taken as "Hey, here's something that's probably not true, but something to think about nonetheless."
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Another odd thing Jimmmmm says
So it seems our main suspects are Robz, Eevee, Galz and Axxle.
I don't know... day 1 is hard.
I think Robz acting obvscum and claiming that makes him obvtown could very possible be a scum play. You know, WIFOM and all of that.
That's all I really have for now, I'll do a re-read tonight if I have time.
For now, Vote: Lekkit to try to force him out of hiding.
What's weird about this is that one person thus far had voted for Axxle or stated a scumread on him. Just theorel. Galz made a brash statement about Axxle being scum that was devoid of any facts in #282, but that's not the same as serving up a suspect. Robz had made it up to 4 votes, Eevee up to 3, Galz had gotten only 2 votes but Robz had explicitly stated a scumread on Galz (so I'll count that as 3). So let it be noted that Jimmm is paying particular attention to theorel.
Then he makes the statement that Robz is acting so obvscum and claiming that makes him towny. Robz isn't even acting scummy, much less obvscum! What is it, the two compliments for hunting he gave out? Telling the vig not to shoot night 1? (if there is a vig, night one shots are a terrible idea; they will have the same terrible accuracy as day1 lynches do).
Tell me what Robz has done that is obvscum. Voting to make a point on theorel then forgetting his vote was a very bad use of his vote. But that's not obvscum, nor is it even necessarily scum.
Gosh, that seems like ages ago now.
I think the main thing I was talking about was this:
I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.
Vote: RobZ. I think (someone can probably find a quote) that he prefers playing scum.
This is actually a pretty good reason to vote for me. I salute Frisk for catching it.
It's also something I would have obviously self-filtered if I were scum.
I do not think Eevee was trying to out the Doctor, because Eevee isn't like that.
I read this as "Yeah that's a pretty scummy thing for me to say, but I wouldn't say it if I was scum." I just thought it was possible that scum!Robz would deliberately say something he "would have obviously self-filtered if [he] were scum."
I actually noticed Robz' "Don't restart" and remembered he likes playing scum. I think by the time I read it it had already been discussed, so no point in bringing it up again.
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In terms of the "Axxle suspect" thing, as well as theorel's vote I was also referring to this:
And your vote is still there.
I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?
I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.
And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.
Unvote
Have you developed any scummy reads?
You seem more provoking than usual.
Is that scummy?
Is that scummy?
I think so.
So all four of the people I mentioned had had at least 2 people vote for say they were suspicious of them.
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That was "vote for OR say they were suspicious of them."
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Seems like a dubious argument. Robz said "lets not restart" realizing people would think he would self-censor as scum so he must be town?
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Whose argument is dubious? I just said it was possible that it was a scum play. Are you saying it's impossible?
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Whose argument is dubious? I just said it was possible that it was a scum play. Are you saying it's impossible?
I'm saying it's hardly a reason to suspect him. As you said, it's possible it was a scum play. That doesn't mean it's more likely he is scum because of it.
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My point was just that he's not obvTown just because he said something that he would "obviously" have filtered as scum.
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My point was just that he's not obvTown just because he said something that he would "obviously" have filtered as scum.
Oh, I thought you were suspecting him more because of that. I understand.
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@shraeye: can you explain your town-read on Robz? I mean, you explained why you didn't like the cases on him...but is that the extent of the town-read? Is it based entirely on you finding the arguments against him scummy, or is there some pro-town-ness you're seeing there?
I mean, my scum-read isn't so strong, and it's getting weaker as more players that seem town claim town-reads on him. I would like some reasons to view him as town (I can see viewing him as neutral)
For me, it just seems like Robz is not leading the town in his usual way. I mean so far his comments on other players include: he thinks Lekkit is town, and he thinks Galzria is town, and given Galzria's case on Eevee he finds Eevee scummy. He's not driving cases, he's not defending himself. He's taken such a back seat for this game, and that just isn't the town-Robz that I recognize.
Anyways, I appreciate the way you weighed in on various comments, and I have a general feel for what you think on the game now...but given that we're lynching someone today, who do you think that should be?
At this point, I still think Robz is likeliest of the lynch-targets to flip scum. I'm finding the Eevee-Lekkit dichotomy interesting given MVIII. In that game, they both had such town-reads that they refused to lynch each other up to the deadline (that's where we no-lynched day1)...both were town there. Obviously lots of games have happened since then, but I find it interesting that Lekkit is voting for Eevee this time.
@Eevee: since it seems likely that you'll be lynched today (other endings are certainly still possible, but you've got the most votes, and the most non-voters who have expressed a willingness to vote for you as far as I can tell) Do you have anything you would like to share with the town? It'd be great to have more trustable reads (assuming you flip town).
@Robz: since Blitz-VI just finished where you were sure (rightly) that Eevee was town, how does that compare with your estimation of him this game?
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I'd like to hear from raerae again, especially given her deadline is in about 10 hours I think.
My top lynch priority is cayvie, as I've said, however if raerae's gunning for Robz and has support I'll help out with that.
I'm not liking the Lekkit lynch so much any more. I don't know, I was thinking about it and wondering how gutsy a scum would have to be to fire off at the IC like he did.
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Also raerae, have you read Blitz VI? I'm not saying I necessarily played a good game, and obviously Town lost, but I feel like I learnt a fair bit about the role of an IC. This game is very different, but maybe reading it could help you as well?
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My point was just that he's not obvTown just because he said something that he would "obviously" have filtered as scum.
Yeah, but you called him obvscum. There's a huge gap between "not obvtown" and "obvscum"
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So how I feel about Robz:
Right now I don't know about Robz or his meta. This is because I believe he is trying to change it. I think someone quoted the QT in which he talked to ?TheMunch about this. I don't remember, but the fact of the matter is that Robz dies early in almost every game he plays in of late. It isn't a matter of feeling bad for him (he is a big boy and can take it, and if he dies there are at least three other games he can play in at any given moment since he is in all of them). But I am interested in winning this game. For that reason I don't think Robz to be the best day 1 lynch. Especially if his case is meta based, because it seems to me that he is deliberately trying to change it--now the question for us is this: Is he trying to change it as scum or is he trying to change it as town.... That is a hard question to answer now. And one that will be greatly aided by flips and any night kills that occur (obviously this is true with everyone).
As for Robz's actual behavior. It is Day 1 so not that scummy. No one has really been that scummy. But I strongly, strongly prefer a lurker lynch over Robz. I am not saying I won't vote for him. If the town is divided in half with votes on Robz and refusing to vote Robz, I would be willing to vote him to end the day. But it wouldn't be my favorite.
As for Robz's post:
early we disagreed not so much on content of vig talk, but more in how it was said.
Robz has given cases on theorel and eevee. Theorel had more to do with vig situation and I agree with the eevee case.
So to summarize, Robz isn't my ideal lynch candidate for today due to his self changing meta (someone is sure to ask, well if everyone did this and we gave them a pass where would we be? The answer to that: not everyone is doing this, so it doesn't apply. Robz is doing it, others aren't, let's lynch them instead and then analyze Robz when we can understand his interactions with other players later and vote someone today who we can have greater confidence in reading today to have a higher % of hitting scum). I would vote for him, but only to end the day if it was going long.
I prefer an Eevee lynch. Or a scummy lurker lynch.
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My point was just that he's not obvTown just because he said something that he would "obviously" have filtered as scum.
Yeah, but you called him obvscum. There's a huge gap between "not obvtown" and "obvscum"
Oh I see. No, I didn't mean to call him obvscum, what I meant was that acting obvscum might have been part of a scum plan. I took #192 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg145461#msg145461) to mean "That was so obvscum that I can't possibly be scum." I know he didn't actually say obvscum, but I was taking it from what he said, not from my read of him. Hope that makes sense.
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yuma, who are your candidates for scummy lurkers?
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I can try to comment on things thus far (I'm only up to #370, still trying to catch up before noon today, that's looking like it will be more like 2pm, still plenty of time before deadline)
@shraeye: can you explain your town-read on Robz? I mean, you explained why you didn't like the cases on him...but is that the extent of the town-read? Is it based entirely on you finding the arguments against him scummy, or is there some pro-town-ness you're seeing there?
I mean, my scum-read isn't so strong, and it's getting weaker as more players that seem town claim town-reads on him. I would like some reasons to view him as town (I can see viewing him as neutral)
For me, it just seems like Robz is not leading the town in his usual way. I mean so far his comments on other players include: he thinks Lekkit is town, and he thinks Galzria is town, and given Galzria's case on Eevee he finds Eevee scummy. He's not driving cases, he's not defending himself. He's taken such a back seat for this game, and that just isn't the town-Robz that I recognize.
Well, for one, not everyone can be driving cases. Maybe some people gravitate to that more than others, but if it weren't for people who sit back a bit and comment on cases as they arise (different than lurking, notice that Robz has definitely given his opinion on cases and suspects as they arise) day1 would consistently looked scattered as hell and arrive with no real suspect that everyone is willing to get behind.
How I play town is also very forward and in your face a lot. I see this in Robz's play now. I recognize and have seen a change in how Robz approaches day1 since I started in MIX, and I feel like his style of defense isn't scummy like people see. I don't see Robz as the towniest person out there right now, but he's definitely contributed the most. I don't want to lynch the person who's putting the most information out there, even if it's inflammatory and controversial. If he's scum, he WILL be caught in future days as he continues like this. If he's not, we're doing scum a huge favor taking out a good, talkative player like Robz.
Anyways, I appreciate the way you weighed in on various comments, and I have a general feel for what you think on the game now...but given that we're lynching someone today, who do you think that should be?
I'll get there today, as I said, I'm only up to #370. I don't want to set my sights on a target until I'm completely caught up; I feel like that would make me badly tunnel them as I continue to catch up.
At this point, I still think Robz is likeliest of the lynch-targets to flip scum.
I think Robz is a very bad lynch-target today. I think that these days scum simply don't jump in your face like this. I know there's a lot of "but that what he WANTS us to think," but I feel like we're always trying to dig 3 levels deep on that argument, when the truth is the scum that i've seen (and played) were way more happy to coast by.
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My point was just that he's not obvTown just because he said something that he would "obviously" have filtered as scum.
Yeah, but you called him obvscum. There's a huge gap between "not obvtown" and "obvscum"
Oh I see. No, I didn't mean to call him obvscum, what I meant was that acting obvscum might have been part of a scum plan. I took #192 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg145461#msg145461) to mean "That was so obvscum that I can't possibly be scum." I know he didn't actually say obvscum, but I was taking it from what he said, not from my read of him. Hope that makes sense.
I think I see what you're saying. I just really take issue to waht looked like you claiming that Robz's play was obvscum. I take this to mean that you don't actually think that. Robz's play is not obvscum, just highly visible.
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Looking at it, I can see that it looks that way, but that wasn't my intent. He was my top suspect at that stage, but I'll admit I'm a lot less suspicious of him than I was then, possibly due to playing Blitz VI with him and realising he's always pretty crazy.
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Looking at it, I can see that it looks that way, but that wasn't my intent. He was my top suspect at that stage, but I'll admit I'm a lot less suspicious of him than I was then, possibly due to playing Blitz VI with him and realising he's always pretty crazy.
Ok, this could be true. Like I said, I'm operating about 3 days behind everybody else at this point, I'm not sure what's changed since then.
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Although Robz' posting has dropped off fairly significantly over the past few days. Robz, any explanation for this?
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I can try to comment on things thus far (I'm only up to #370, still trying to catch up before noon today, that's looking like it will be more like 2pm, still plenty of time before deadline)
@shraeye: can you explain your town-read on Robz? I mean, you explained why you didn't like the cases on him...but is that the extent of the town-read? Is it based entirely on you finding the arguments against him scummy, or is there some pro-town-ness you're seeing there?
I mean, my scum-read isn't so strong, and it's getting weaker as more players that seem town claim town-reads on him. I would like some reasons to view him as town (I can see viewing him as neutral)
For me, it just seems like Robz is not leading the town in his usual way. I mean so far his comments on other players include: he thinks Lekkit is town, and he thinks Galzria is town, and given Galzria's case on Eevee he finds Eevee scummy. He's not driving cases, he's not defending himself. He's taken such a back seat for this game, and that just isn't the town-Robz that I recognize.
Well, for one, not everyone can be driving cases. Maybe some people gravitate to that more than others, but if it weren't for people who sit back a bit and comment on cases as they arise (different than lurking, notice that Robz has definitely given his opinion on cases and suspects as they arise) day1 would consistently looked scattered as hell and arrive with no real suspect that everyone is willing to get behind.
How I play town is also very forward and in your face a lot. I see this in Robz's play now. I recognize and have seen a change in how Robz approaches day1 since I started in MIX, and I feel like his style of defense isn't scummy like people see. I don't see Robz as the towniest person out there right now, but he's definitely contributed the most. I don't want to lynch the person who's putting the most information out there, even if it's inflammatory and controversial. If he's scum, he WILL be caught in future days as he continues like this. If he's not, we're doing scum a huge favor taking out a good, talkative player like Robz.
Anyways, I appreciate the way you weighed in on various comments, and I have a general feel for what you think on the game now...but given that we're lynching someone today, who do you think that should be?
I'll get there today, as I said, I'm only up to #370. I don't want to set my sights on a target until I'm completely caught up; I feel like that would make me badly tunnel them as I continue to catch up.
At this point, I still think Robz is likeliest of the lynch-targets to flip scum.
I think Robz is a very bad lynch-target today. I think that these days scum simply don't jump in your face like this. I know there's a lot of "but that what he WANTS us to think," but I feel like we're always trying to dig 3 levels deep on that argument, when the truth is the scum that i've seen (and played) were way more happy to coast by.
Didn't really think about you still catching up...it felt like you were done (probably just because you'd finished posting for the night or whatever)
Anyways, I guess that's my disagreement with you about Robz...I feel like he's not playing forward and in your face this game. He's not leading and driving cases, but he does gravitate towards it. Now, I guess he's trying to change his meta...but to me it feels off. I don't think this is what town-Robz would look like when consciously changing his meta. Trying to hold his defensiveness in check, sure, I buy that. The general lack of substance seems off for Robz though, and I don't think that's a changing meta thing...it might be an I'm ignoring substance that's there thing.
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post count: (nothing taken away for pregame stuff:
1 – Robz888: 54
2 – Jimmmmm: 42
3 - cayvie: 33
4 - Eevee: 27
5 - Captain_Frisk: 34
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 5+9
7 - Lekkit: 13
8 - Cuzz: 18
9 - theorel: 23
10 - Watno >>> Galzria: 5+28
11 - yuma: 42
12 - Axxle: 57
13 – raerae-- who cares...
So from this I prefer the lynch of eevee. I have reread him and know what he has done this game pretty well. The others I haven't reread, so this is more based of memory.
cayvie, Cuzz are the first two that come to mind. Both the subins have substantially increased their posts since subbing in and I hate to hold them accountable for their predecessors. Lekkit rings same Lekkit as MVIII and I tried to lynch him (twice) and that turned out to be a disaster, so avoiding that again. Theorel has been the most substance per post and has been very town.
So yeah, cayvie and cuzz I could be ok with. But I am staying on Eevee.
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
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Jimmm's suspicions of cayvie
Had a bit of a re-read and found a couple of things I'm not entirely comfortable.
First cayvie.
1) sHe seems to have been posting a fair bit without actually contributing that much.
2) sHe seems to be somewhat buddying up to Robz. Not sure exactly what that means.
3) Obviously his main contribution has been the whole Eevee doctor thing.
ugh i've already screwed this up
see, axxle, now we're talking about the doctor, which is just bad to do d1. and it is, i think, what eevee wanted to happen.
I don't know, I'm not entirely comfortable with how certain cayvie seems to be of Eevee, based on a single, short post. I can't really see a Townie having that strong a scum-read on someone as to effectively say "I think Eevee is scum".
4) This is probably fairly minor, but:
you really think i'm calculating and vicious like that, cayvie? didn't even think about doctors or any power roles messing up with night kills when writing that post. i just type stuff.
haha
i read the mafia chat from RMM3
don't even pretend :)
Is it possible cayvie has the Mafia QT on his mind because he's just been posting there?
Wait, saying somebody is a townread is now buddying? No, cayvie hasn't been buddying Robz. Also, i don't see cayvie's reaction to Eevee's comment as scummy at all. I get sure of reads all the time as town, and it's little posts that do it; there's nothing unusual about cayvie jumping out at that short post, it was clever thinking. Whether it was accurate or not is not known to me. Lastly, I'm a bit confused by your 4th point about QTs; you know there's no daychat in this setup, right?
Cayvie's vote on Lekkit
Her immediate vote on Lekkit after raerae's suggestion seems sheepy, but her explanation possibly diffuses this. I'm unsure of implications though, both town/scum can sheep.
Cuzz's list of reads
Cuzz posted a post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg148248#msg148248) saying lekkit, jimmm, yuma, robz were scummy. I'll talk about Lekkit later, it's deserving of it's own topic.
Regarding Jimmmm 'SK hunting' and this being a scumtell, I think not, especially in newer players. I approached this game at the start as 'scum is scum, lynch them all.' It took a while to realize that most SKs benefit from trying to help town in the beginning of the game. Of course, there still is benefit to town in lynching the SK as that is one less nightkill thinning our ranks. My thoughts on SK-hunting is that we shouldn't explicitly be searching for them, or attempting to lynch them if we think we find them, my main targets are mafia. But if I hit SK, I'm not going to be sad, it's still of some benefit to town. Anyway, about Jimmmm, I don't think this is a scumtell in the context of him being newer.
About yuma; this is a healthy attitude for Cuzz to take on yuma, thanks for realling in the tunneling from before. I think you would be much better at catching yuma as scum so I don't want you to stop looking at him. But I think it's detrimental to be 'convinced' at this point that yuma HAS to be scum. But stay suspicious, stay vigilant.
My thoughts on Eevee
I'm somewhat suspicious. His second paragraph here just seems forced-helpful. Too helpful, in a suspicious way.
Robz, i think a mafioso is more likely to try to exactly emuöate their known town meta. townies are more devilmaycare, especially so if they have no powerful role.
to get us moving before the deadline, i encourage everyone to either provide a list like yuma, or better yet, if you are like me and unsure about a bunch of people, do what i did earlier with yuma; reread someone (other than raerae) and give your opinion on that person. seriously, rereads are helpful, but a lot of work. rereading one playerin takes like 10 minutes with the all button and ctrl f on their iso username, and presenting your results will make it easier for others to determine what they think of hat player (so pick someone that hasnt been done already). i'll try to get on this too today!
I think Galz's case on Eevee (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg148291#msg148291) is also very good (though hard to read, due to length and the silly italics, everybody should have a good look at this and consider if Eevee is a good lynch today). I'm not entirely sold yet, but suspicious as I said. Eevee's "little ol' me?" reaction to cayvie's suspicion regarding outing of power roles has read scummy to me in the past, but I also was wrong with that read (can't recall which game for reference, sorry). But Eevee's reaction to the lekkit wagon as 'definitely being on town, so let me find the scummiest person there' is really suspicious to me. I think at this point that Lekkit is a pretty good lynch (probably even my preferred lynch) but if Lekkit is town, we must remember this interaction with Eevee.
Thoughts on Lekkit--a great lynch
Lekkit thinks it's ironic (#303) that Jimmm and Eevee are voting him for lurking as they themselves have been quiet. I could agree about Jimmm at that point, but not Eevee.
Then Lekkit posts a townread (#320) on theorel because of the theory help he's given. That's funny, because I see participating mostly in only theory talk as a great way for scum to avoid committing to reads, and never get a townread from it.
I have yet to find the key to move out of RVS, bu it seems like both Galz and theorel manages that pretty well on a regular basis. Do you really think me participating in RVS would've made it end earlier? If it wouldve been super quiet I woulsve said something, but as long as the game moves forward, I dont really see the point in oosting random votes.
It wasn't theorel or Galzria, it was Robz. Posting a lot and giving people things to talk about is what pulls us out of RVS. There is a magic switch that does it, and it's called 'not lurking.'
Lekkit's response to this is mostly here, I think
As for your question about you participating in RVS, I certainly don’t think it could have hurt. You’ve brought this suspicion on yourself by not contributing to the town effort.
Sure I could've contributed more, but I don't really see how it would've helped us more if I had posted more randomness.
What you should be posting is not randomness, nobody's asking you to do that. Warning, main point: Because, assuming that you're actually town, you're actively scumhunting, as you said you were. This means you're reading people's posts and forming reads and trying to figure things out. Presumably this leads to thoughts about people's alignments and characters, and THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO POST. When you have thoughts on people, post them so others can agree with you, react to you, defend themselves, etc. YOU EITHER AREN'T SCUMHUNTING AT ALL, OR ARE DOING SO POORLY AT IT THAT YOU'RE HAVING ZERO THOUGHTS. I'M 100% COMFORTABLE LYNCHING YOU IN EITHER SCENARIO.
PS: Lekkit, quite attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now. Deal with the fact that you don't like me calling you out for lurking.
Being IC makes you town, but it doesn't give you the perfect scum radar. "The IC says I'm scum without a real case. Guess it muat be true..." Doesn't work that way. And I feel a lot more attacked than attacking. There is just no way of pleasing you. If I son't post, you ask me to. If I respond to you, you tell me not to. I'm fine with you calling me out for lurking, but do you seriously mean I'm the scummiest around?
Now here you ask 'seriously, am I the scummiest around?" This is a very scummy way to deflect suspicion. It reads to me that you are angry that people are focusing correctly on you, instead of going after people who are being 'obviously more scummy.' Basically frustration that despite trying to avoid looking scummy, people have started suspecting you. Scum alarms are going off and they aren't stopping.
Some people have suggested that lynching lurkers isn't actually helpful. I disagree. If a lurker is town, we have not lost an important contributor, success! If the lurker is scum, we can see where heat was directed during day 1. When scum lurk, it usually is because they like the direction that town is going in and don't want to change it. So we WILL get some info that way, even if Lekkit isn't the biggest contributor. Also, at the same time, leaving people who contribute more will make hunting easier in the future.
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
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Lastly, I'm a bit confused by your 4th point about QTs; you know there's no daychat in this setup, right?
Haha no I actually didn't realise that. Just about every other game I've played has been Blitz. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Pick a game as evidence?
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Lots of things happening. I'm so behind on everything (crazy week in the academic world) but I'll try to catch up as soon as I can.
For deadline coming up: top lynch candidate right now is Lekkit, where I have my vote. Would be fine lynching Robz and maybe yuma (yeah I know nobody else buys my yuma non-case and he probably won't get lynched today). Mildly keeping an eye on Eevee and Galz, but both deserve a thorough reread that I've not had much time for.
Town read on theorel. Nothing super strong read-wise on shraeye, Axxle, Jimmmm, cayvie or Frisk. Maybe a mild townread on Frisk. Would probably have a townread on shraeye if it weren't for BM6.
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Pick a game as evidence?
I have two, the ongoing games we can't discuss further (the reason I'm bringing this up is that all these day 1s were at the same time, which made me kind of quiet in all of them).
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Shraeye has subbed in for Abra655. Mod considered the known twinclaim, had no issue with it.
Oh my gawd, I just can't go anywhere without him, can I?!
(http://i.qkme.me/3s47s8.jpg)
+1
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Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Pick a game as evidence?
I have two, the ongoing games we can't discuss further (the reason I'm bringing this up is that all these day 1s were at the same time, which made me kind of quiet in all of them).
So basically, you can't list a single game in which you were town and were near the bottom of the post count. Got it.
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So basically, you can't list a single game in which you were town and were near the bottom of the post count. Got it.
Must.... resist..... urge.... to.... tunnel........ eevee.
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Ok, fully caught up. Not as many comments in the last 40 pages. I found it hard to comment on Frisk's catching up as I was catching up. Too many levels for me. I'll look at one of his posts that I liked
Disclaimer - previous post included pregame etc. etc. etc.
Vote Count 1.11
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (3): yuma, Axxle, Robz888
Lekkit (2): raerae, cayvie
yuma (1): Cuzz
cayvie (1): Eevee
Not Voting (4): Abra655, Galzria, Lekkit, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Of the currently viable wagons, Lekkit is the closest to a lurker lynch, although I do think this is consistent with his town meta.
I'm ok with my RobZ vote for reasons posted and not seeing a compelling reason to change.
I kindof have a bad feeling about Cuzz, but mainly because I don't really remember reading anything of substance from him.
Axxle seems to have a way high post count. This feels out of line with previous games, but I enjoy having active posters around.
The Abra / Shraeye thing just needs to stop ASAP. Shraeye - get in here and read. It only takes an hour.
I think we should definitely get a soft deadline going, but I don't think we should do it if the #1 contender only has 2 or 3 votes. At that point there's very little information regarding who ACTUALLY voted and drove the case vs. the people who just voted because of soft deadline.
I also really enjoy active posters, like Axxle. It's one reason Robz is not the right lynch today in my mind. Another being the townread I get from his out-there-ness. Interesting that you have this bad feeling regarding Cuzz not giving anything of substance. When going through people list's of reads, Cuzz stood out to me as having the most analysis within it. That's at post #369 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg148248#msg148248) if you want to read it up.
I urge you to change off of your Robz vote for the reason of keeping active players around. Robz has contributed tons of discussion and many reads on events that happen around him. He is of benefit to town via his actions; there are people who aren't and these people are better lynches.
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Eevee is still suspicious
to be fair, a bunch of people have been just as lazy as i have. voting for me for lack of contributions is not fair in my opinion. but i guess you think my contributions have been scummy, which is understandable.
Seeing unfair votes ("but he's ALSO lurking!") as terrible, but being ok with votes for perceived scumminess really set off my scumradar. Why are you so upset at being lynched 'unfairly'? This consistently reminds me of sparky in MIX (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3907.msg101226#msg101226) when he got caught for silly reasons and got upset that his great game as scum ended for non-scummy reasons.
my feelings on cayvie
I'm feeling rather neutral, not for lack of reads, but because of conflicting reads. Galz's case at post #390 has accurate analysis it seems, but the conclusions I draw while reading it (which mirrored the conclusions I had reading cayvie's posts) were a little this way and a little that. I'd love to see some flips first and revisit cayvie later.
Robz doesn't flip his Lynch-all-Lurkers stance; just softens it for Lekkit
The way I see it, he amended it, and I disagree with his amendment. His policy appears to be lynch-all-lurkers, unless I have a meta-read on them as being lurky players. I hope that Robz can see that lynching Lekkit for lurking is much better than keeping around a silent player because his meta matches previous play.
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Vote: Lekkit
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Robz, what do you think of your LaLL policy regarding this game?
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For people unaware of what LaLL is, that means 'Lynch all Lurkers, Literally.' It's something Robz declared in the post-game to MXI (yes, the enormous masquerade game recently finished)
Link to statement below:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4412.msg150829#msg150829
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i am still voting Lekkit, yes?
checks
ok, good
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Vote: Eevee for reasons stated earlier. going to bed now.
I saw this post, and started thinking: what reasons? So I looked for reasons...
@Lekkit: Is this your reasoning then?
Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Certainly you've contributed even less than Eevee. I think you need a stronger reason to lynch Eevee than him contributing less than Robz and (though not mentioned here) voting for Lekkit for lurking. Because, well, you've contributed less than Eevee...and so, if the reason to lynch is smaller contribution I think you win that race.
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I'm not overly loving the Lekkit lynch, but I do think it's better than killing me.
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Vote: Eevee for reasons stated earlier. going to bed now.
I saw this post, and started thinking: what reasons? So I looked for reasons...
@Lekkit: Is this your reasoning then?
Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Certainly you've contributed even less than Eevee. I think you need a stronger reason to lynch Eevee than him contributing less than Robz and (though not mentioned here) voting for Lekkit for lurking. Because, well, you've contributed less than Eevee...and so, if the reason to lynch is smaller contribution I think you win that race.
theorel, I have a townread on you and a scumread on Lekkit, so I don't even know if it's worth pointing this out but I will anyway:
I have called people out for lurking when I've been lurky town plenty of times. Lurking is scummy, and even lurkers know that.
The word "lurk" is starting to look less and less like a real word to me now.
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This is true, and I don't object to him calling Eevee out for lurking, I object to him voting for him purely because he's contributed less than Robz.
Also, (and this probably played into it more, now that I think about it) I think it's a bit silly that I had to go look for that reason, I mean it's not like it's a huge case to repost, it's a 1-liner.
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I couldn't decide whether to change my vote...so I'll leave it for the moment.
Unofficial Vote Count
Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, theorel, raerae
Eevee (4): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit
Lekkit (3): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye
cayvie (2): Eevee, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (1): Galzria
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Unvote
I don't even know my name yesterday right now. Rumor has it I have to work but everybody most people are bringing up reasonable thoughts that's I'd like to look at a little more. Still don't love Robz but love Lekkit even less. Shraeye says good things but I don't know that I like all of them. Theorel, you're good stuff. Jimmmmm, like you most of the time. The rest of you just confuse the hell straight out of me. Feeling like the dumb kid in math right now so will try to make more sense of things tonight.
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Gah! Sooo many games.
Catching up in a bit. Wagons are spread a bit. I'm not a huge fan of the Robz wagon, although his play is... Off. Eevee is scummy to me, but Eevee is ALWAYS scummy to me. And then there's Lekkit.
Eevee's analysis of Lekkit's wagon without a flip bothered me. If Lekkit gets lynched, and is:
Town: That doesn't say much about Eevee. He could be scum pre-lining up a second lynch, or town that had a genuine "this feels wrong" read.
Scum: It paints Eevee in a worse light, I think, as possible partner attempting to derail the wagon. I think I commented that Eevee was #3 on the Lekkit wagon though, so if it's Scum-Scum that might be hard to believe. Again, Town!Eevee might've just gotten scared off.
If we lynch Eevee and he's:
Town: Says nothing about Lekkit, I think. Obviously we look at his reads - not as being accurate, but as being truthful atty least.
Scum: I think it's more likely that Scum!Eevee = Scum!Lekkit than vice versa. It's also possible that Lekkit is town here, but I have a harder time seeing Scum!Eevee jumping ship so easily.
Bleh.
Obviously there are more and deeper interactions with more players than just that, but I'm looking at those two as leading lynch candidates.
I think after the conclusion of XI, I'm leaning more towards Lekkit, due in large part to LaLL, but as always that feels a little cheap to me. Gonna do some more reads in just a little while. Want a PC and not my mobile.
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Vote Count 1.13
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (4): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit
Lekkit (3): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye
cayvie (2): Eevee, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (2): Galzria, raerae
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
~6 of your 18 bankable days have been used.
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We've used 1/3 of our bankable days. We need to lynch. Someone. I find Eevee scummy, but I'm willing to put that off for another day.
Vote: Lekkit
I'm certainly willing to move my vote elsewhere. I've got no absolute reads, but if nothing else Lekkit's reaction to being called out for lurking is scummy - And the "I've got nothing to say, it's D1" is very unhelpful at best. I get it, D1 sucks. We all push to get through it though and make the best out of nothing. If nobody does anything, nothing happens.
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<crickets>
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Vote: Lekkit if these really are the alternatives.
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<crickets>
We've used 1/3 of our bankable days. We need to lynch. Someone. I find Eevee scummy, but I'm willing to put that off for another day.
Vote: Lekkit
I'm certainly willing to move my vote elsewhere. I've got no absolute reads, but if nothing else Lekkit's reaction to being called out for lurking is scummy - And the "I've got nothing to say, it's D1" is very unhelpful at best. I get it, D1 sucks. We all push to get through it though and make the best out of nothing. If nobody does anything, nothing happens.
I'm still suffering from mafia catchup overload, but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. At the time of your vote - eevee lynch looks more viable, and yet you choose lekkit, and your reasoning is that he says he's bad at day 1 - which ignores eevee being scummy as recently as the last page:
Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Lynching lurker lekkit lights my lovehandles too, but I'm just not sure I understand why you prefer one to the other. Eevee's low involvement is semi out of character. Lekkit's isn't.
And why is nobody with me on RobZ?
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Self meta argument again, but I wouldnt do anything out of character if I was scum. You were scum with me in RMM3 Frisk, wouldnt you agree?
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<crickets>
We've used 1/3 of our bankable days. We need to lynch. Someone. I find Eevee scummy, but I'm willing to put that off for another day.
Vote: Lekkit
I'm certainly willing to move my vote elsewhere. I've got no absolute reads, but if nothing else Lekkit's reaction to being called out for lurking is scummy - And the "I've got nothing to say, it's D1" is very unhelpful at best. I get it, D1 sucks. We all push to get through it though and make the best out of nothing. If nobody does anything, nothing happens.
I'm still suffering from mafia catchup overload, but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. At the time of your vote - eevee lynch looks more viable, and yet you choose lekkit, and your reasoning is that he says he's bad at day 1 - which ignores eevee being scummy as recently as the last page:
Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Lynching lurker lekkit lights my lovehandles too, but I'm just not sure I understand why you prefer one to the other. Eevee's low involvement is semi out of character. Lekkit's isn't.
And why is nobody with me on RobZ?
I know. And I've done a giant write-up on Eevee already that has been sheeped by 1001 people. I'm not AGAINST the Eevee lynch... I just -always- read him as scum, and I know that I misread him quite easily (as recently as ZM6 - where, while I figured his alignment out before the final day, it was more a product of others play than of his own.)
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@Lekkit, you’ve said you don’t have a lot to say because it’s day one and RVS is boring. Exactly how do you propose we move out of it if you sit back and watch us spin our wheels? You then complain about the soft-deadline I set without objecting to me being in charge of that after I clearly indicated I was uncomfortable with that decision. You also criticize theorel for 1) not having much substance to his posts and 2) only coming out in RVS when you yourself only showed up once you called out for lurking and didn’t say much then.
I just don’t think you’ve had a lot to say and I don’t see how town is benefiting from keeping you around.
Vote: Lekkit
If you were't the IC I would have a scum read on you right now. Asking for thoughts on the deadline and not wanting to hear them is coming off as really arrogant to me.
I have yet to find the key to move out of RVS, bu it seems like both Galz and theorel manages that pretty well on a regular basis. Do you really think me participating in RVS would've made it end earlier? If it wouldve been super quiet I woulsve said something, but as long as the game moves forward, I dont really see the point in oosting random votes.
Also FOS cayvie for jumping on the lurker wagon when Abra is a lot more absent.
This is the post from Lekkit that bugs me the most. That attitude towards an IC just doesn't seem town at all to me.
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I read that as Lekkit being annoyed with raerae, nothing more.
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Vote Count 1.14
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (4): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit
Lekkit (5): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Galzria, Eevee {L-2}
cayvie (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (1): raerae
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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And why is nobody with me on RobZ?
I actually have a scumread on Robz. But I also have (a bigger) one on Lekkit. And all else being equal I have to admit I kinda feel bad that we pile on Robz every single D1. So I prefer Lekkit today.
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I read that as Lekkit being annoyed with raerae, nothing more.
I can understand that interpretation, but man the IC is the IC. In what way is the "I'd have a scumread on you if you weren't IC" comment pro-town?
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Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
I'm not sure I agree with Eevee that Lekkit is trying to start another wagon and waste time here - but certainly calling out eevee for not contributing when Lekkit has a grand total of 13 posts is kindof ridiculous.
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Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
I'm not sure I agree with Eevee that Lekkit is trying to start another wagon and waste time here - but certainly calling out eevee for not contributing when Lekkit has a grand total of 13 posts is kindof ridiculous.
Oops - that was Cuzz who thought that Lekkit was trying to start a new wagon.
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Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
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Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
I'm not sure I agree with Eevee that Lekkit is trying to start another wagon and waste time here - but certainly calling out eevee for not contributing when Lekkit has a grand total of 13 posts is kindof ridiculous.
I'm not the one who said that.
@Cuzz
People say things without thinking much.
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I still prefer RobZ, but in the interest of moving this forward, I would say that a reread of Lekkit's posts does seem plausible as scum-lurking.
Are we comfortable putting him at L-1?
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I read that as Lekkit being annoyed with raerae, nothing more.
I can understand that interpretation, but man the IC is the IC. In what way is the "I'd have a scumread on you if you weren't IC" comment pro-town?
Because I would. This isn't at all the first time I've been accused for saying what I think while at the same time getting bashed for not doing it. I get that you think I've lurked, but I don't really get how arguing with whoever is arguing with me is bad. But apparently it is.
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Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
Do we have data that suggests that the worst lurker has historically been scum?
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Also, and this is a major thing in all of the games I've played in. I'm half a day ahead of most of you guys. That's one of the reasons I'm almost always at the lower end of the post spectrum. However, I don't really think that post counts alone tell you how much you've contributed.
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So
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while
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I
-
can
-
do
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something
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Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
Do we have data that suggests that the worst lurker has historically been scum?
Had town lynched the worst lurker every game day of M-XI, they would've killed scum every single day except 1, which would've hit Morgrim. Otherwise it would've been a perfect town victory.
I'm not sure how accurate it is to other games, although a quick look at the leaderboards should tell us.
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like
-
this
-
it
-
does
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That's a good way to prove your towniness, Lekkit.
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not
-
make
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I read that as Lekkit being annoyed with raerae, nothing more.
I can understand that interpretation, but man the IC is the IC. In what way is the "I'd have a scumread on you if you weren't IC" comment pro-town?
Because I would. This isn't at all the first time I've been accused for saying what I think while at the same time getting bashed for not doing it. I get that you think I've lurked, but I don't really get how arguing with whoever is arguing with me is bad. But apparently it is.
It's not bad that you'd want to disagree with the IC if you think she's wrong. Or anyone. There was just something about the way that you did so that made me think the reaction wasn't coming from someone on the same team as raerae.
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my
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contributions
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greater.
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@Eevee: I'm not really trying to prove I'm town. Just to get my point across. Because at this time, I'm pretty sure I will be today's lynch, and might as well get this out here before it can get me lynched in another game.
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You are intentionally trying to tick people off. Again, this does not seem to be the behavior of someone who is on the same team as the majority of people here.
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@Cuzz: Oh, so I'm scum for not arguing the way you would've done it as town? My reaction was really sincere.
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However, I don't really think that post counts alone tell you how much you've contributed.
Agreed - but go find me some of your posts that have contributed something meaningful?
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I've tried to get you to see things from my perspective, but I can't really do it. No matter what I do, you vote for me anyway. Be it that I don't contribute or that I do. Be it that I don't agree with someone or that I do. Be it that I'm awake or asleep.
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Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
Do we have data that suggests that the worst lurker has historically been scum?
Had town lynched the worst lurker every game day of M-XI, they would've killed scum every single day except 1, which would've hit Morgrim. Otherwise it would've been a perfect town victory.
I'm not sure how accurate it is to other games, although a quick look at the leaderboards should tell us.
It's tough to tell because of when people were lynched and removed from the game, but starting with M-III, yes, scum has been very low on the post-count. Lowest? I couldn't tell you from the spreadsheet. But close. Eevee in M-III, Glooble in M-IV, Yuma in M-V, Theorel/Ozle M-VI (along with Glooble as SK), YN and PPS in M-VII (Although that game had Manda and... somebody else). O in M-VIII (Robz as well to an extent), etc.
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Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
Do we have data that suggests that the worst lurker has historically been scum?
Had town lynched the worst lurker every game day of M-XI, they would've killed scum every single day except 1, which would've hit Morgrim. Otherwise it would've been a perfect town victory.
I'm not sure how accurate it is to other games, although a quick look at the leaderboards should tell us.
It's tough to tell because of when people were lynched and removed from the game, but starting with M-III, yes, scum has been very low on the post-count. Lowest? I couldn't tell you from the spreadsheet. But close. Eevee in M-III, Glooble in M-IV, Yuma in M-V, Theorel/Ozle M-VI (along with Glooble as SK), YN and PPS in M-VII (Although that game had Manda and... somebody else). O in M-VIII (Robz as well to an extent), etc.
Grujah in MXII!!!!!!
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However, I don't really think that post counts alone tell you how much you've contributed.
Agreed - but go find me some of your posts that have contributed something meaningful?
And yes, it's this here. It's not JUST "low post count". It's that outside of arguing with the IC, I haven't seen anything of much value. You started the day out by saying "It's D1 and I have nothing to add". That is true for every player here, but we come up with stuff. We FIND things to say - relevant or not. D1 sucks. I feel your pain on that. Some people enjoy it, but I know that at least for myself and Robz, we do not. But it's as much a part of the game as lylo is.
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I can also agree that I've mostly contributed by defending myself, but keeping a townie alive is good, right? Otherwise I might just self vote and get it over with?
Do you think there's anything I could do to convince you to not lynch me right now? Because, frankly I don't really do.
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And yes, it's this here. It's not JUST "low post count". It's that outside of arguing with the IC, I haven't seen anything of much value. You started the day out by saying "It's D1 and I have nothing to add". That is true for every player here, but we come up with stuff. We FIND things to say - relevant or not. D1 sucks. I feel your pain on that. Some people enjoy it, but I know that at least for myself and Robz, we do not. But it's as much a part of the game as lylo is.
This is my third game where're I've been a part of day 1. In one of the games I was scum. Another was a RMM, and the third I was pretty VLA. So, I've only really been participating in one as town, and that was a RMM. So I'm not really good at it. I have yet to break the how to do it properly barrier.
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Yeah, actually. Unvote.
Lekkit's spam posting reminded me of the "fit" Joth threw in RMM3 about Dsell calling him a liar.
It's not solid, but it's worth holding off that lynch for now (I think).
I'll go to #2 then, since I DO have a case there. I just HATE reading the Fuzzball wrong - and if I'm doing so here I'll be angry at myself.
Vote: Eevee
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And yes, it's this here. It's not JUST "low post count". It's that outside of arguing with the IC, I haven't seen anything of much value. You started the day out by saying "It's D1 and I have nothing to add". That is true for every player here, but we come up with stuff. We FIND things to say - relevant or not. D1 sucks. I feel your pain on that. Some people enjoy it, but I know that at least for myself and Robz, we do not. But it's as much a part of the game as lylo is.
This is my third game where're I've been a part of day 1. In one of the games I was scum. Another was a RMM, and the third I was pretty VLA. So, I've only really been participating in one as town, and that was a RMM. So I'm not really good at it. I have yet to break the how to do it properly barrier.
You've really only played in 2 games?
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This and the Pearl Diver one are the only regular ones, yes.
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Also, I'm really posting before rereading. And It got me that I didn't participate in the day 1 RVS of RMM3. I subbed in there. So there, this is my first game where I've even had a proper chance at contributing to RVS.
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Just want to come to Lekkit's defense a little on the raerae thing.
Everybody cool with a soft deadline of Friday at 8pm forum time? Lynch the person with the most votes at that point if we haven't come to a decision yet?
I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.
@Lekkit, you’ve said you don’t have a lot to say because it’s day one and RVS is boring. Exactly how do you propose we move out of it if you sit back and watch us spin our wheels? You then complain about the soft-deadline I set without objecting to me being in charge of that after I clearly indicated I was uncomfortable with that decision. You also criticize theorel for 1) not having much substance to his posts and 2) only coming out in RVS when you yourself only showed up once you called out for lurking and didn’t say much then.
I just don’t think you’ve had a lot to say and I don’t see how town is benefiting from keeping you around.
Vote: Lekkit
If you were't the IC I would have a scum read on you right now. Asking for thoughts on the deadline and not wanting to hear them is coming off as really arrogant to me.
I feel like raerae snapping at Lekkit was a bit of an over-reaction, possibly due to feeling uncomfortable with being "in charge" in her first game, although she did have some valid points about Lekkit's lack of contribution.
I think Lekkit has a point here in his response to raerae, in that she asked for everyone's opinion on the Friday deadline, Lekkit gave his, and she didn't like it.
I don't know, I think Lekkit is Town. Not very helpful Town at this stage, possibly in part due to feeling like he's had to defend himself from everyone. I'll give him a reread now and have another look.
However, I do feel like we need to get a lynch happening today, and if this is the only viable one, then maybe that's what we're going to have to do.
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I don't know, I think Lekkit is Town.
...
However, I do feel like we need to get a lynch happening today, and if this is the only viable one, then maybe that's what we're going to have to do.
This is not an acceptable excuse.
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i feel that way too, though..
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i feel that way too, though..
What is eevee at? He's good enough to not be pulling this BS.
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i feel that way too, though..
What is eevee at? He's good enough to not be pulling this BS.
So we are burning our bankable deadline and have two wagons, me and someone I am pretty much neutral, maybe slight town about. What's my play here?
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I think I'm the only one that has moved my vote.
Vote Count 1.14
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, theorel
Eevee (5): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Galzria {L-2}
Lekkit (4): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee
cayvie (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (1): raerae
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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I don't know, I think Lekkit is Town.
...
However, I do feel like we need to get a lynch happening today, and if this is the only viable one, then maybe that's what we're going to have to do.
This is not an acceptable excuse.
Are you suggesting we spend the rest of our bankable days discussing Lekkit's lurking? I've put my vote on my top suspect, and that's not getting us anywhere at the moment.
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The count as I quoted above is correct (I moved my vote from Lekkit to Eevee on it)
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I don't know, I think Lekkit is Town.
...
However, I do feel like we need to get a lynch happening today, and if this is the only viable one, then maybe that's what we're going to have to do.
This is not an acceptable excuse.
Are you suggesting we spend the rest of our bankable days discussing Lekkit's lurking? I've put my vote on my top suspect, and that's not getting us anywhere at the moment.
I'm suggesting that lynching someone you think is town is a bad idea. Surely there has to be someone you think is scummier than someone you have a townread on. Do you think that Lekkit is the least townie out of RobZ / Eevee / Lekkit?
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Ok - we did talk about an end of day tuesday thing right?
Vote: Eevee I don't recall seeing him as his normal buddy buddy which drives me bonkers, but he's definitely posting less than normal.
Per Galz - this is L-1.
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I asked you a question up there, CF!
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Oh - and FOS y'all for giving RobZ a pass because we kill him too much.
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i feel that way too, though..
What is eevee at? He's good enough to not be pulling this BS.
So we are burning our bankable deadline and have two wagons, me and someone I am pretty much neutral, maybe slight town about. What's my play here?
Build a case on someone other than "hey I suck at day 1"
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did a quick reread of eevee from my phone. it was basicallt a pain, but i got 3 posts and a phone restart. 268, 292 and 375. will be getting those now.
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Ugh. This game is awful. Why do you people like it? Too stressful. I think I've proven myself to be the least helpful IC ever and now I'll just solidify my position as scummiest IC by flip/flopping back to my original vote. Robz still seems off to me but enough of you (meaning more than just his possible scumbuddies) seem to think this is normal Robz behavior that I'm comfortable backing off for now. Shraeye has a point that it's probably better (at this stage in the game) to have somebody who's going to say stuff around rather than somebody who pops in every now and then to barely say anything. I still don't feel comfortable with the Eevee lynch. I can't and I won't get on board with that but if I survive N1 I will do a full reread of him and the cases against him, maybe even do some research on all y'alls considering what little homework I did was not enough.
@Jimmmmm, you make some valid points about my interaction with Lekkit regarding the deadline. I fully admit that (on the reread) a lot of that post was frustration. Not that it justifies anything but so you know where my head was, I’m pretty sure that was a really long day because, in my head, I had asked for feedback at least a day before he responded. I just now checked dates realized that he responded to me same day.
@Lekkit, I apologize for my frustration based on your disagreement with me regarding the original soft-deadline. That was unfair of me and bad town play on my part.
That being said, I stand by my other arguments. Got called out for lurking early and instead of remedying the situation he just choose to fight about it. Bad play or scum, not good for town in my admittedly novice opinion.
Vote: Lekkit
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Having re-read Lekkit, in his 21 non-spam post, the only thing he's really done other than defend himself is to vote for Shraeye... for lurking.
And this:
Vote: Eevee for reasons stated earlier. going to bed now.
Earlier...
I have absolutely no way of proving it, but I was going to park my vote on Eevee when going to bed tonight, unless something came up that would change my mind there.
No reasons given.
Earlier...
At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Oh, and of course he called Eevee and me out. For not contributing much.
Seriously dude, when you're on the chopping block for not contributing, accusing other people of not contributing doesn't really count as contributing. We need some solid reads, man. Give us a reason to vote for someone else, other than one that is more relevant for you.
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9 posts before the game starts, 16 after. First 7 are introductions, discussing vig strategy or correcting vote couns, I don't think any of these is particularly relevant to yuma's alignment. Cuzz votes for yuma for a case that's flimsy at best, yuma points this out and votes for Cuzz. I agree with yuma on Cuzz's case, and people like to omgus back when accused with false reasons, so I don't glean anything from this either. Next yuma says he hasnt found Robz scummy in this game, and mildly defends him against Axxle's accusations. I agree with him again, Robz-wagon seems to be there mainly because it's Robz. Next yuma notes I've been awfully silent. Nope, not VLA per ce, just.. not yet that into this game, have little reads and not much to say. I feel I'm like this day 1 a lot, and then pick up my activity later. I think it's mostly a stylistic thing, if I joined fewer games, I might commence rereads already on day 1 and be a better player. Maybe I should try this. (Note, being alive in several games doesn't really affect my activity due to not having time to post. I'm around plenty, it just muddies up my reads a bit, especially in early game.) Then a couple of posts discussing a soft deadline, again something I don't think will be any different regardless of his alignment, and finally the post of asking me questions I just quoted above. That's yuma this far in this game. Analysis of this information: dunno. Hasn't done much anything make me think he is town or scum. That's possibly a mild scum tell for me personally because I take town reads much better than scum reads, so using theorel's scum-o-meter I'll give yuma a 27 (25 was the base). Watnolzria is at 32. Robz at 20.
"I dont do much day 1 since my reads arent good yet and im bad at day 1" Sounds like a good way to not be responsible for your votes.
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Oh - and FOS y'all for giving RobZ a pass because we kill him too much.
I am totally fine killing Robz D2. I just know he gets a bit bummed about it.
Btw, all of you abandoning the Lekkit wagon, what have Lekkit's reads been so far this game? It's D1 but RVS is long over, and although Lekkit has spent a lot of time defending himself, I don't recall him doing any scumhunting or giving his impression of any of the other players.
PPE: Jimmmmmmmm agrees.
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"I dont do much day 1 since my reads arent good yet and im bad at day 1" Sounds like a good way to not be responsible for your votes.
Isn't that what you've been saying all along?
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Vote: Lekkit, now that's something I have done before with great success too. He is not even in any other games (afaik), he should be able to contribute if he wanted to!
First game we played you did this and was right. second game you dodnt, and was right about the read, third game we were togeräther in you wrre scum. Why add the part that you are good at voting me? justifying a vote partially by claiming incorrect facts.
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Vote: Lekkit, now that's something I have done before with great success too. He is not even in any other games (afaik), he should be able to contribute if he wanted to!
First game we played you did this and was right. second game you dodnt, and was right about the read, third game we were togeräther in you wrre scum. Why add the part that you are good at voting me? justifying a vote partially by claiming incorrect facts.
i dont understand this post, what do you mean?
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Soo....
Eevee has been at L-1 for almost 15 minutes. Not sure if I should read anything into that. Is scum not willing to hammer out their partner, or is Eevee town and scum doesn't want to jump into a scummy position? I hate WIFOM arguments.
Normally, I would think scum would bus at this point. Get some nice town cred on a lynch that's sitting on the brink. But with Lekkit's lynch also very close (With Raerae voting, that's L-2 on Lekkit again), they may just try to push him up to lynch status instead.
Is it reasonable to guess that ONE of them is probably scum? Or are they both town, and scum has their votes split, happily watching the clock roll by?
???
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Oh - and FOS y'all for giving RobZ a pass because we kill him too much.
I am totally fine killing Robz D2. I just know he gets a bit bummed about it.
Btw, all of you abandoning the Lekkit wagon, what have Lekkit's reads been so far this game? It's D1 but RVS is long over, and although Lekkit has spent a lot of time defending himself, I don't recall him doing any scumhunting or giving his impression of any of the other players.
PPE: Jimmmmmmmm agrees.
Has anyone abandoned the lekkit wagon other than Galzria style?
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to be fair, a bunch of people have been just as lazy as i have. voting for me for lack of contributions is not fair in my opinion. but i guess you think my contributions have been scummy, which is understandable.
I feel you here. And I get why tou would be voting for me. Someone said that agreeing with pwoples arguments is a good way to not attract suspicion. I guess that makes us two who are in that boat.
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Re-updated:
Vote Count 1.14
Robz888 (1): theorel
Eevee (6): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Galzria, Captain_Frisk {L-1}
Lekkit (5): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, Raerae {L-2}
cayvie (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting:
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
[/quote]
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Oh - and FOS y'all for giving RobZ a pass because we kill him too much.
I am totally fine killing Robz D2. I just know he gets a bit bummed about it.
Btw, all of you abandoning the Lekkit wagon, what have Lekkit's reads been so far this game? It's D1 but RVS is long over, and although Lekkit has spent a lot of time defending himself, I don't recall him doing any scumhunting or giving his impression of any of the other players.
PPE: Jimmmmmmmm agrees.
Has anyone abandoned the lekkit wagon other than Galzria style?
My bad, I though you had been voting for Lekkit before Eevee.
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I'm more comfortable with the Lekkit lynch, since if he's not scum, he's been pretty useless as Town.
No offense dude, you know it's true.
Vote: Lekkit
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theorel?
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That's two L-1's. :o
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That's two L-1's. :o
Which I believe is a f.DS first, fwiw.
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I obviously think there is a good chance of us both being town. But other townies dont have the luxury of knowing my alignment.
Lekkit, with great success was referring to the fact I gathered your towniness from your reaction to pressure day1 in VIII.
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That's two L-1's. :o
Which I believe is a f.DS first, fwiw.
((Outside of lylo))
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This is pretty intense.
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to be fair, a bunch of people have been just as lazy as i have. voting for me for lack of contributions is not fair in my opinion. but i guess you think my contributions have been scummy, which is understandable.
I feel you here. And I get why tou would be voting for me. Someone said that agreeing with pwoples arguments is a good way to not attract suspicion. I guess that makes us two who are in that boat.
Something about this makes me want to note lekkit
Robzs technigue for being scum perhaps? Apologize - see their point and hope they get over it?
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I think there's good questions in this post, btw. Would like to hear thoughts about the various ideas:
Soo....
Eevee has been at L-1 for almost 15 minutes. Not sure if I should read anything into that. Is scum not willing to hammer out their partner, or is Eevee town and scum doesn't want to jump into a scummy position? I hate WIFOM arguments.
Normally, I would think scum would bus at this point. Get some nice town cred on a lynch that's sitting on the brink. But with Lekkit's lynch also very close (With Raerae voting, that's L-2 on Lekkit again), they may just try to push him up to lynch status instead.
Is it reasonable to guess that ONE of them is probably scum? Or are they both town, and scum has their votes split, happily watching the clock roll by?
???
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Every single person in this game (apart from Eevee and Lekkit) has the power to lynch someone else now.
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Shoukd we discuss claiming?
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We're all Vig's! 8)
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I dont like how you are implying one of us is likely scum, could be setting us up for a mislynch tomorrow.
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I dont like how you are implying one of us is likely scum, could be setting us up for a mislynch tomorrow.
I'm in fact NOT implying that. Please read again.
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"I dont do much day 1 since my reads arent good yet and im bad at day 1" Sounds like a good way to not be responsible for your votes.
Isn't that what you've been saying all along?
I dont know if editing out the part about aucking at day 1 woulsve made me look better... There is a hiuuge difference in the number of games weve been in, though.
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I dont like how you are implying one of us is likely scum, could be setting us up for a mislynch tomorrow.
I'm asking for varying opinions, because there are limited options, and limited amount of things scum can do in this situation. Scum IS voting for either you, or Lekkit, or both.
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We're all Vig's! 8)
Remember kids, no vigging day 1. ;)
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I think there's good questions in this post, btw. Would like to hear thoughts about the various ideas:
Soo....
Eevee has been at L-1 for almost 15 minutes. Not sure if I should read anything into that. Is scum not willing to hammer out their partner, or is Eevee town and scum doesn't want to jump into a scummy position? I hate WIFOM arguments.
Normally, I would think scum would bus at this point. Get some nice town cred on a lynch that's sitting on the brink. But with Lekkit's lynch also very close (With Raerae voting, that's L-2 on Lekkit again), they may just try to push him up to lynch status instead.
Is it reasonable to guess that ONE of them is probably scum? Or are they both town, and scum has their votes split, happily watching the clock roll by?
???
I don't think I would expect someone to hammer
The pro town play - unless you are the munch or morgrim is to announce intent and wait for claims right?
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We're all Vig's! 8)
Remember kids, no vigging day 1. ;)
Yeah, been there. ;D
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If Lekkit or Eevee is town, I would like them to give their reads, if they get lynched, so we have something else to go on D2.
Neither has really done so so far.
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I'm phone posting. Who haven't we heard from today?
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We're all Vig's! 8)
Remember kids, no vigging day 1. ;)
Jimmmmm, you are killing me today! I appreciate the humor in a tense situation. Thank you, sir.
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I'm phone posting. Who haven't we heard from today?
Robz. Theorel. Yuma (VLA)
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I am about to head to the store...I will lynch Eevee when I get back if it is available. This will be in about an hour and a half or so.
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Cookies done baking, so I'm actually at my PC now.
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Cookies done baking, so I'm actually at my PC now.
What kind?
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Oh my. Well, vanilla town, and dont feel particularly strong read wise so I guess its not the end of the world.
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Well Galz, I suppose the options are:
1) Both scum. Seems fairly unlikely, based on probability if nothing else, and probably they could have avoided getting to this point without arousing too much suspicion.
2) One scum, one Town. Either the votes are split, or all three scum are on the Town. Do you think that if they were split, one of them would hammer? I think there's enough suspicion on both that this wouldn't look that suspicious.
3) Both Town. I guess they don't care in this case, and are waiting for someone else to hammer to avoid suspicion.
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Robz and yuma's absence during all this makes me suspect both of them all the more.
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If Lekkit or Eevee is town, I would like them to give their reads, if they get lynched, so we have something else to go on D2.
Neither has really done so so far.
I have given all my reads I'm even little bit confident about. I think spiting out pretty much complete guesses to be tsken from a confirmed townie would in fact be detrimental, because scum could easily spin those into their favor.
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Robz and yuma's absence during all this makes me suspect both of them all the more.
Yuma is with family for the holiday's, on vacation in Southern Cali. He has access a little bit late at night before bed, and early in the morning when he wakes up. No other time however.
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If Lekkit or Eevee is town, I would like them to give their reads, if they get lynched, so we have something else to go on D2.
Neither has really done so so far.
I have given all my reads I'm even little bit confident about. I think spiting out pretty much complete guesses to be tsken from a confirmed townie would in fact be detrimental, because scum could easily spin those into their favor.
Can you repeat the ones you felt somewhat confident about? The only one I remember was a townread on me because I'm self-centered and have a hard time paying attention when people aren't talking about me.
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Robz and yuma's absence during all this makes me suspect both of them all the more.
Yuma is with family for the holiday's, on vacation in Southern Cali. He has access a little bit late at night before bed, and early in the morning when he wakes up. No other time however.
Oh, you're right. Forgot about that.
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So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
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So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
Depends on the kingdom
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So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
Depends on the person, but honestly neither Eevee nor Lekkit are giving me any reason to believe they are town right now.
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I have never wanted to edit a post more than right now.....
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So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
It varies person to person. Some will continue to swear they are town even after a hammer falls, all the way up until the Mod locks the thread.
Others will admit you caught them after the hammer, and then start calling out people as their scumbuddies to add confusion during the next day.
Almost all try to be as calm as possible under pressure, and act as "townie" as they can. Often times they'll fake claim a power role to add confusion, or try to draw out a counter-claim for their teammates to kill that night. Other times they'll claim VT, because fake-claiming is what MOST scum would do, so to claim VT is to be more likely town.
Other times they'll go into hardcore lurk mode, hoping that by saying nothing, they won't damn themselves.
It really does vary wildly person to person, and it depends on the current gamestate. If indeed either Eevee/Lekkit are scum, I would expect them to try and remain as cool as possible, since there is a different viable wagon that could also tip, allowing them to live. They don't need to "escape" so much as "not be the lynchee" - That said, neither of them are pushing the lynch of the other all that strongly, and I don't know what to make of that.
I'm really worried that they're both town, tbh, but if one is scum I would feel extremely foolish (and it wouldn't be the first time) after the game.
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I have never wanted to edit a post more than right now.....
I'm not seeing it
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I have never wanted to edit a post more than right now.....
I'm not seeing it
You made the obvious joke I wish I had.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
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I don't really know what more to add. I think Eevee ia one of the scummier players along with cayvie. And lynching a scummy player seems far better to me than lynching a townie.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
Yeah, scumslip much? When Eevee's Town, he "firmly" claims Town.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
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those whens should obviously be ifs.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
True. Unless, this:
Other times they'll claim VT, because fake-claiming is what MOST scum would do, so to claim VT is to be more likely town.
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
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Are you two having a who is more useless competition?
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Are you two having a who is more useless competition?
+ infinity
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Lekkit is more useless, which is not saying much.
Jimmm, in this setup clsiming a pr is just so much better. One would have to be ridic confide t in avoiding the lynch with a vt claim. Is this situstion like that?
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I've tried to get you to see things from my perspective, but I can't really do it. No matter what I do, you vote for me anyway. Be it that I don't contribute or that I do. Be it that I don't agree with someone or that I do. Be it that I'm awake or asleep.
No, Lekkit hasn't tried to get us to see his perspective. I can't remember any information he's contributed other than "i dont' know what to say". He has also specifically said taht he doesn't want to add to the randomness. Adding your thoughts doesn't increase randomness, it helps peopel scumhunt. The fact that you had no thoughts to add really make me convinced Lekkit is a great lynch today.
Eevee could be good too, i've harbored suspicions of eevee, and definitely want to examine him in the future. I'd just prefer to lynch Lekkit today.
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Oh - and FOS y'all for giving RobZ a pass because we kill him too much.
I am totally fine killing Robz D2. I just know he gets a bit bummed about it.
Btw, all of you abandoning the Lekkit wagon, what have Lekkit's reads been so far this game? It's D1 but RVS is long over, and although Lekkit has spent a lot of time defending himself, I don't recall him doing any scumhunting or giving his impression of any of the other players.
PPE: Jimmmmmmmm agrees.
Has anyone abandoned the lekkit wagon other than Galzria style?
Nope, just Galz unless I missed something.
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Is Axxle V/LA? I actually forgot he was in this game.
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Lekkit is more useless, which is not saying much.
Jimmm, in this setup clsiming a pr is just so much better. One would have to be ridic confide t in avoiding the lynch with a vt claim. Is this situstion like that?
You've clearly thought about this...
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
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One more time:
Vote Count 1.14
Robz888 (1): theorel
Eevee (6): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Galzria, Captain_Frisk {L-1}
Lekkit (6): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, Raerae, Jimmmmm {L-1}
Not Voting:
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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I'm not saying you're scum for defending yourself, Lekkit. I'm saying your scum for not even pretending to contribute to scumhunting.
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Lekkit is more useless, which is not saying much.
Jimmm, in this setup clsiming a pr is just so much better. One would have to be ridic confide t in avoiding the lynch with a vt claim. Is this situstion like that?
You've clearly thought about this...
No, it's just pretty obvious.
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
I see where he's coming from here. Nobody on his wagon is going to 100% believe him if he just comes out and says "I'm town." That's a crap argument anyway. That seemed more like a "here's what you'll get if you keep me around depending on what side of the fence you think I'm on" thing.
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Galz, please do come back to the Lekkit lynch.
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
I see where he's coming from here. Nobody on his wagon is going to 100% believe him if he just comes out and says "I'm town." That's a crap argument anyway. That seemed more like a "here's what you'll get if you keep me around depending on what side of the fence you think I'm on" thing.
When I'm town I actually have a hard time imagining the game from the perspective in which I might be scum.
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Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
Yeah me too. Had to look it up (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Chainsaw_Defense#Chainsaw_Defense_.28Tarhalindur_Version.29).
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Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Here you go
Thoughts on Lekkit--a great lynch
Lekkit thinks it's ironic (#303) that Jimmm and Eevee are voting him for lurking as they themselves have been quiet. I could agree about Jimmm at that point, but not Eevee.
Then Lekkit posts a townread (#320) on theorel because of the theory help he's given. That's funny, because I see participating mostly in only theory talk as a great way for scum to avoid committing to reads, and never get a townread from it.
I have yet to find the key to move out of RVS, bu it seems like both Galz and theorel manages that pretty well on a regular basis. Do you really think me participating in RVS would've made it end earlier? If it wouldve been super quiet I woulsve said something, but as long as the game moves forward, I dont really see the point in oosting random votes.
It wasn't theorel or Galzria, it was Robz. Posting a lot and giving people things to talk about is what pulls us out of RVS. There is a magic switch that does it, and it's called 'not lurking.'
Lekkit's response to this is mostly here, I think
As for your question about you participating in RVS, I certainly don’t think it could have hurt. You’ve brought this suspicion on yourself by not contributing to the town effort.
Sure I could've contributed more, but I don't really see how it would've helped us more if I had posted more randomness.
What you should be posting is not randomness, nobody's asking you to do that. Warning, main point: Because, assuming that you're actually town, you're actively scumhunting, as you said you were. This means you're reading people's posts and forming reads and trying to figure things out. Presumably this leads to thoughts about people's alignments and characters, and THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO POST. When you have thoughts on people, post them so others can agree with you, react to you, defend themselves, etc. YOU EITHER AREN'T SCUMHUNTING AT ALL, OR ARE DOING SO POORLY AT IT THAT YOU'RE HAVING ZERO THOUGHTS. I'M 100% COMFORTABLE LYNCHING YOU IN EITHER SCENARIO.
PS: Lekkit, quite attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now. Deal with the fact that you don't like me calling you out for lurking.
Being IC makes you town, but it doesn't give you the perfect scum radar. "The IC says I'm scum without a real case. Guess it muat be true..." Doesn't work that way. And I feel a lot more attacked than attacking. There is just no way of pleasing you. If I son't post, you ask me to. If I respond to you, you tell me not to. I'm fine with you calling me out for lurking, but do you seriously mean I'm the scummiest around?
Now here you ask 'seriously, am I the scummiest around?" This is a very scummy way to deflect suspicion. It reads to me that you are angry that people are focusing correctly on you, instead of going after people who are being 'obviously more scummy.' Basically frustration that despite trying to avoid looking scummy, people have started suspecting you. Scum alarms are going off and they aren't stopping.
Some people have suggested that lynching lurkers isn't actually helpful. I disagree. If a lurker is town, we have not lost an important contributor, success! If the lurker is scum, we can see where heat was directed during day 1. When scum lurk, it usually is because they like the direction that town is going in and don't want to change it. So we WILL get some info that way, even if Lekkit isn't the biggest contributor. Also, at the same time, leaving people who contribute more will make hunting easier in the future.
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
Chainsaw Defense (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tarhalindur_Standard_Tells[/url)
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Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
Funny, I'm starting to want to switch to Eevee. I kinda want to lynch them both.
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Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
Funny, I'm starting to want to switch to Eevee. I kinda want to lynch them both.
>.>
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
Chainsaw Defense (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tarhalindur_Standard_Tells[/url)
Lol
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Thanks, Jimmmmm.
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
Yeah me too. Had to look it up (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Chainsaw_Defense#Chainsaw_Defense_.28Tarhalindur_Version.29).
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Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
I remember Joth flipping out in RMM3 like that as well, but because Lekkit was there during that part of the game, I suspect he took note of it, and is intentionally using it.
The difference between Lekkit-here and RMM3Joth, is that Joth had also actually done a lot of other protown things. He had immediately come forward with Scum tried to frame him with icecream kills, etc.
Here Lekkit has done NOTHING to help town. He flipped out at our IC (Remember SFS suspecting me as IC in Blitz4? Well SFS was scum), he flipped out at his wagon. And the whole time, he has posted no reads or analysis at all.
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f5f5f5 >_>
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aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
Apparently you are acum if you dedend yourself. Ive done this all game and have been bashed for iit all game too. And to top it off people have been suggeting chainsaw defense is the way to go. am I missing something?
Thanks, Jimmmmm.
Pardon my ignorance...chainsaw defense?
Yeah me too. Had to look it up (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Chainsaw_Defense#Chainsaw_Defense_.28Tarhalindur_Version.29).
Bah, damn, I'm a bad quoter....and almost did it again.
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Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
I remember Joth flipping out in RMM3 like that as well, but because Lekkit was there during that part of the game, I suspect he took note of it, and is intentionally using it.
The difference between Lekkit-here and RMM3Joth, is that Joth had also actually done a lot of other protown things. He had immediately come forward with Scum tried to frame him with icecream kills, etc.
Here Lekkit has done NOTHING to help town. He flipped out at our IC (Remember SFS suspecting me as IC in Blitz4? Well SFS was scum), he flipped out at his wagon. And the whole time, he has posted no reads or analysis at all.
Yes, he was there. I'm not convinced that he could mimic it so closely, and it wasn't like the play itself bought Joth tons of town credit... it's that Joth happened to be town, as revealed later on.
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Sigh.
I HATE THIS.
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HammerVote: Lekkit
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Serious? I think it's brilliant. So tense.
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Oh there we go. Now we wait.
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Eevee, if you're scum, I'm just gonna.... GRRRR
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Did lekkit even claim? Fos: Galzria!
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Did lekkit even claim? Fos: Galzria!
I gave a warning. I can't help his not doing so.
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I'm not. Now lets hope Lekkit doesnt flip some stupid power role.
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For Reference, Frisk:
Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
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For Reference, Frisk:
Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
Thanks. I am on phone
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Scroll - up - refresh . Refresh refresh
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asherske is on like never though.
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asherske is on like never though.
Can't Volt lock and Mod? He can everywhere else...
Or is he too busy playing with kittens over in lolcats?
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asherske is on like never though.
Can't Volt lock and Mod? He can everywhere else...
Or is he too busy playing with kittens over in lolcats?
Jorbles is around, Isn't he backup mod?
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Out for 10 minutes and you hammrr me... Well, tjanks for not losstening to my real thoughts...
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who cares about locking, i want a flip.
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lekkit you can still give them.
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who cares about locking, i want a flip.
Shouldn't all the info you need be in the QT Eevee?
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Eevee do you still have town read on lekkit?
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Lekkit, if you're really town, you need to be getting every thought you've had posted before the thread is locked so we have something to work with for Day 2.
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Out for 10 minutes and you hammrr me... Well, tjanks for not losstening to my real thoughts...
You were at L-1... with a ton of active players who were debating to lynch you or somebody else... and you don't even MENTION that you're stepping away? If I had KNOWN you weren't there, I would've held off hammering until you had a chance to claim! But everybody was active and it was flowing, and I sent out the intent, got no response, and hammered!
Gah!
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Out for 10 minutes and you hammrr me... Well, tjanks for not losstening to my real thoughts...
You were at L-1... with a ton of active players who were debating to lynch you or somebody else... and you don't even MENTION that you're stepping away? If I had KNOWN you weren't there, I would've held off hammering until you had a chance to claim! But everybody was active and it was flowing, and I sent out the intent, got no response, and hammered!
Gah!
This isn't to say "OMG how dare you step away", it's just that... a little warning during such a critical time would've been, you know, nice.
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Eevee do you still have town read on lekkit?
No, i actually think he'll flip scum with a reasonable probability now. I think his first post-hammer post would have contained a claim if he was town.
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Lekkit, if you're really town, you need to be getting every thought you've had posted before the thread is locked so we have something to work with for Day 2.
This, 1000x this.
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So what's the story lekkit - are you scum? Are you goin to make us wait?
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Lekkit, if you're really town, you need to be getting every thought you've had posted before the thread is locked so we have something to work with for Day 2.
This, 1000x this.
Really? Because he's been soooooo forthcoming before he was mad at all of us...
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Silence is making me feel better about this
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Lekkit, if you're really town, you need to be getting every thought you've had posted before the thread is locked so we have something to work with for Day 2.
This, 1000x this.
Really? Because he's been soooooo forthcoming before he was mad at all of us...
I don't disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that: If Lekkit IS indeed town, he should be getting every thought he's had posted before the thread is locked.
I know being mislynched is frustrating as hell. But as town, you still win if town wins, and your thoughts are still valuable - more after you flip than at any other time since you're then of IC status.
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I'll tell you this. All my reactions have been genuine. I don't think I was the best lynch canditate, but I get why I was suspected. Also, some of you will like my flip. :)
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Lekkit, if you're really town, you need to be getting every thought you've had posted before the thread is locked so we have something to work with for Day 2.
This, 1000x this.
Really? Because he's been soooooo forthcoming before he was mad at all of us...
Well yeah, but now there's no point defending himself. So the best he can do for Town is spill. If he's Town, he can still help us win.
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I'll tell you this. All my reactions have been genuine. I don't think I was the best lynch canditate, but I get why I was suspected. Also, some of you will like my flip. :)
I believe that your reactions were genuine, and that you thought you weren't the best candidate. But I am highly suspecting that this post is meant to say that you are scum. Ergo, you were a great candidate.
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:)
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Ugh, Jorbles is offline now...
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Man, now the suspense is killing me. Again.
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I'll tell you this. All my reactions have been genuine. I don't think I was the best lynch canditate, but I get why I was suspected. Also, some of you will like my flip. :)
I believe that your reactions were genuine, and that you thought you weren't the best candidate. But I am highly suspecting that this post is meant to say that you are scum. Ergo, you were a great candidate.
Or that he's town and "some of you" refers to scum, because he's a PR? Blaaaah.
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nah that was an admission of guilt. yay yay!
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Man I can't sit here refreshing every 10 seconds. I'm off to finish the movie I was watching last night. Back in a bit.
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Sorry for delay. Lolcats, y'know.
THREAD LOCKED
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Vote Count 1.15
Robz888 (1): theorel
Eevee (5): yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Captain_Frisk
Lekkit (7): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, raerae, Jimmmmm, Galzria
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Per usual course, ash will handle the flavour; I'll handle your flip.
Lekkit has been lynched. He was a Mafia Goon.
NIGHT 1 HAS BEGUN. Night actions are due in 48 hours, so by Thursday, December 13, at 8:00 p.m. EST, or whatever other deadline ash may set.
This thread is STILL LOCKED.
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The group sat around the Magic Box, on the floor mostly, or in chairs when they could find them. They stared at each other, prodded and asked questions a few times, but really were unsure what to do.
"Uh, guys? Why don't we just put it all out there and try to figure out who the bad guys are?" raerae asked. "It's lonely being the only Innocent person here, and I feel like I don't know any of you..."
So they talk, and talked, and talked. The sun started to set, and the group focused on two people sitting against the counter. It must be one of those two. Galzria couldn't take the indecision anymore, and shouted out.
"It must be that one! Get him!"
So, with the help of cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, raerae, and Jimmmmm, they grabbed Lekkit and threw him down on the ground, and started pummeling him with whatever they could find. One of them broke the leg off a chair and staked him through the heart. Lekkit gurgled and died.
"Uh, guys, that was gross!" raerae exclaimed.
As he lay there, dead, his jacket fell open and a wallet, of all things, plopped to the floor. raerae picked it up and pulled out a business card.
"Huh, this guy was The Master, a Big Bad Goon. What a weird..."
Everyone looked back to where Lekkit's body was, and just saw a poof of dust.
Night 1 is underway.
Night actions are due by Thursday, December 13, at 8:00 p.m. EST. Send all actions to myself, Voltgloss, and Jorbles. Day 2 may start early if all actions are in.
This thread is STILL LOCKED.
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Totally abusing my admin powers here, to post in a locked topic, but ...
Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Congrats on post #150,000.
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The gang fell asleep as the sun set and they all tacitly agreed they shouldn’t leave the Magic Box until they figured out who was who, and who was evil. They found open spaces on the floor to lay down, used old musty books for pillows, and some towels from the weird gym they found in the back room.
In the morning, raerae was the first to wake up. And the first to scream.
“Uh, guys, what happened there?”
Raerae pointed to the corner, where a body, bruised and bloodied, lay crumpled in a heap, stuck to the floor by its own blood. A wooden stake, crudely fashioned from a broom handle, stuck out of his chest.
It was Robz888. Next to his body, they found a broken pair of glasses, and a thick book open to the dedication page. It was signed “To my good friend Rupert Giles, the Scooby Gang Doctor” by the author.
Day 2 has begun.
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time. 7 days and 3.5 hours of your bankable time has been used up.
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
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One of these days imma be right about robz
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If Eevee is town, and all the scum were not already on his wagon (read: none were bussing Lekkit), why wouldn't one switch his vote to hammer out Eevee?
Alternatively: If any of the people not voting Eevee were scum, why did they let Lekkit die?
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Great work guys. The worst thing about having nights is you want to yell out a celebration but you can't. I felt quite gagged to be honest.
Interesting that they hit Robz. Not quite sure what to make of that. I guess the fact that he was a doctor means the raerae will be the next to go.
Just letting you know I'll be VLA over the weekend. I'm at work now, so I can't be particularly active, and I'll be going away pretty much as soon as I get home. Don't have a smartphone, either, so won't be able to post at all. I'll be back my Sunday afternoon, so Saturday night/Sunday morning forum time.
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If Eevee is town, and all the scum were not already on his wagon (read: none were bussing Lekkit), why wouldn't one switch his vote to hammer out Eevee?
Alternatively: If any of the people not voting Eevee were scum, why did they let Lekkit die?
This is my thinking as well, but why kill off the wagon if both scum are there?
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If Eevee is town, and all the scum were not already on his wagon (read: none were bussing Lekkit), why wouldn't one switch his vote to hammer out Eevee?
Alternatively: If any of the people not voting Eevee were scum, why did they let Lekkit die?
This is my thinking as well, but why kill off the wagon if both scum are there?
That's a WIFOM question. They could do it to illicit that exact response. Or, they couldn't been sold on bussing hardcore. Obviously they wouldn't want to flip and hammer a townie, so maybe they were scared. Pretty bad spot to back themselves into though, considering that Eevee hit L-1 well before Lekkit, and the Lekkit wagon could have still dissolved at that time.
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Couldn't = could've.
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I think partial reason might be just that I portrayed towniness a lot better than Lekkit did when push came to a shove?
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Oh and hail Galzria for making the right call in the end. Pleased to see you read me that well. Good job.
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
I'm fine giving you town credit, being the competing wagon, and all people who stayed on the Lekkit wagon when Eevee was possible some credit. But only minimal credit to Galz. Still, I think we're going to do best by starting to look at the remaining Eevee-wagoners (+theorel).
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So your theory is 2 scum in theorel, Yuma axxle? Time for a reread.
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
I'm fine giving you town credit, being the competing wagon, and all people who stayed on the Lekkit wagon when Eevee was possible some credit. But only minimal credit to Galz. Still, I think we're going to do best by starting to look at the remaining Eevee-wagoners (+theorel).
Why only minimal credit to Galz?
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
I'm fine giving you town credit, being the competing wagon, and all people who stayed on the Lekkit wagon when Eevee was possible some credit. But only minimal credit to Galz. Still, I think we're going to do best by starting to look at the remaining Eevee-wagoners (+theorel).
Why only minimal credit to Galz?
Considering he could have just waited for theorel, I have to assume that galz is not mafia.
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
I'm fine giving you town credit, being the competing wagon, and all people who stayed on the Lekkit wagon when Eevee was possible some credit. But only minimal credit to Galz. Still, I think we're going to do best by starting to look at the remaining Eevee-wagoners (+theorel).
Why only minimal credit to Galz?
Considering he could have just waited for theorel, I have to assume that galz is not mafia.
Quite anti-town of you to not let shraeye fuq up answering to my question.
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Why only minimal credit to Galz?
He was on Lekkit's wagon but then switched to Eevee, and only when both wagons were at L-1 did he flip back to Lekkit. If one were scum and sitting on one L-1 wagon while looking at one's scummate who is also at L-1, it would seem an easy way to buy credit to switch wagons and be the bus hammer.
It would be much more suspicious to have been on Lekkit early, but then refuse to be the hammer since Eevee was at L-1, and then have Eevee flip town (this argument assumes Eevee is town). So faced with scummily lynching townEevee, or hammering his partner, I think most scum would hammer Lekkit.
@Frisk I'm including you in that Eevee-wagon search as well, obviously.
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Bad bad bad, no doctoring for us anymore.
We should discuss yesterday's craziness for sure. My impression is that it makes myself look very towny, Galzria quite towny and reflects badly on those who didn't comment / wanted to lynch me (theorel comes to mind).
I'm fine giving you town credit, being the competing wagon, and all people who stayed on the Lekkit wagon when Eevee was possible some credit. But only minimal credit to Galz. Still, I think we're going to do best by starting to look at the remaining Eevee-wagoners (+theorel).
Why only minimal credit to Galz?
Considering he could have just waited for theorel, I have to assume that galz is not mafia.
Quite anti-town of you to not let shraeye fuq up answering to my question.
Lol
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@Frisk I'm including you in that Eevee-wagon search as well, obviously.
Of course. I'd suspect you of scummitude if you didn't.
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Shraeye, Galzria wouldn't have needed to refuse or anything like that. Theorel announced intent to hammer me, Galzria jumped in before he had the chance and hammered Lekkit. I think that deserves at least some credit, if not a full IC status.
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Shraeye, Galzria wouldn't have needed to refuse or anything like that. Theorel announced intent to hammer me, Galzria jumped in before he had the chance and hammered Lekkit. I think that deserves at least some credit, if not a full IC status.
Some credit is given. Not a lot. Most definitely not IC status.
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Shraeye, Galzria wouldn't have needed to refuse or anything like that. Theorel announced intent to hammer me, Galzria jumped in before he had the chance and hammered Lekkit. I think that deserves at least some credit, if not a full IC status.
Some credit is given. Not a lot. Most definitely not IC status.
Definitely more credit than someone who didn't do what he did and just stayed on the Eevee wagon. Or someone who was not voting at all and expressed intent in hammering Eevee.
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Shraeye, Galzria wouldn't have needed to refuse or anything like that. Theorel announced intent to hammer me, Galzria jumped in before he had the chance and hammered Lekkit. I think that deserves at least some credit, if not a full IC status.
Also, not switching back to Lekkit (where his vote very recently was) would have been akin to refusing to hammer Lekkit in my mind, whether or not theorel wanted to hammer you.
He had the opportunity, and (in this hypothetical, where eevee got lynched) didn't take it.
@PPE Oh yeah, for sure. That's why I said that we start by looking at Eevee-wagoners plus theorel, was that not clear? I feel like we're talking past eachother somehow.
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It's easy to just fake not being online or something. But yeah, I think we mostly agree, sounded like you were undermining Galzria's protown niceaction / discrediting it a bit, I wanted to comment on what Frisk also noted already: he could have very well let theorel hammer me (in my opinion anyways), and he didn't. I know this because I was fully expecting to die and was genuinely surprised to see Galzria rescue me like that.
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It's easy to just fake not being online or something. But yeah, I think we mostly agree, sounded like you were undermining Galzria's protown niceaction / discrediting it a bit, I wanted to comment on what Frisk also noted already: he could have very well let theorel hammer me (in my opinion anyways), and he didn't. I know this because I was fully expecting to die and was genuinely surprised to see Galzria rescue me like that.
Yeah, I just want to caution you to tone down the IC-vibes your giving Galz. Galz took the townier option, but it's not so town that we should be even close to calling him IC.
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It's easy to just fake not being online or something. But yeah, I think we mostly agree, sounded like you were undermining Galzria's protown niceaction / discrediting it a bit, I wanted to comment on what Frisk also noted already: he could have very well let theorel hammer me (in my opinion anyways), and he didn't. I know this because I was fully expecting to die and was genuinely surprised to see Galzria rescue me like that.
Nobody gets ic status... Remember zm1 or 2 where robz didn't save me from d1 lynch?
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It's easy to just fake not being online or something. But yeah, I think we mostly agree, sounded like you were undermining Galzria's protown niceaction / discrediting it a bit, I wanted to comment on what Frisk also noted already: he could have very well let theorel hammer me (in my opinion anyways), and he didn't. I know this because I was fully expecting to die and was genuinely surprised to see Galzria rescue me like that.
Nobody gets ic status... Remember zm1 or 2 where robz didn't save me from d1 lynch?
Exactly. It was ZM2.
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Oh, I fail in english lol. I meant to say "While I agree with you in that Galz isn't an IC, he still deserves town credit for his actions". It came out "Galz deserves town credit maybe a full IC status". Just me not rocking the language so well. Sorry for the confusion.
I wholeheartedly hope I've learned my lesson from the blitz games regarding giving anyone IC status for things like this. Galzria is the most likely to be town after myself in my eyes, but that can obviously change later when we get new information.
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I agree that the most suspicious people are those who were voting for Eevee (including myself as having stated intent to hammer).
I will note that any bussers on the Lekkit wagon, given my stated intent to hammer Eevee, probably would not have switched (assuming that Eevee is in fact town).
Among those voting for Eevee (and still alive, and not me), personally I think I would rank them as follows:
Frisk, Axxle, yuma.
I'll note that I probably also look suspicious for parts played in pushing for Robz' lynch. That's primarily why I'm ranking Frisk over Axxle. It's pretty close though, I'd say around 40 for Frisk and 37 for Axxle.
Given both that Robz was a doctor AND raerae didn't die, I'm concerned that we may have a SK. Not so concerned that I think we should do something about it, but I do want to mention it, since it might lead to more deaths than otherwise expected.
As for wagoners, and all that: I think shraeye seems pretty town for championing the Lekkit-lynch, Eevee seems town-ish for being the other lynch choice and the improbability that we had 2 scum-lynches going day1. Galzria gets some town-cred for hammering Lekkit, BUT he also had the sheeped case on Eevee which resulted in him being at L-1. I agree with shraeye on this primarily: it could easily have been a calculated move ESPECIALLY given how much heat he would have taken for being involved in a town-Eevee lynch (assuming again that Eevee is in fact town). cayvie and Jimmmmm have read pretty town to me all game, but I'll need to look back at Jimmmmm's joining of the Lekkit wagon, cayvie was there for a while. Cuzz seems the most likeliest busser to me, but he's still less suspicious than those voting for Eevee, at least at the moment.
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Theorel, did I understand correctly, you think shraeye is more likely to be town than I am?
Good point about the possibility of SK. I agree it's not something we really need to concern ourselves with yet though, we will most likely find out if we have one the following night. And even after that, it's just going to affect the parity discussions, nothing else, right?
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Actually, that ended up being an unordered mess...but yes, I think shraeye is the towniest Lekkit-voter.
I think my ranking (towniest to least townie) is something like: (omitting IC)
shraeye>cayvie>Eevee>Galzria>Jimmmmm>Cuzz
Although that's not a hard and fast ordering. cayvie-Galzria is difficult to really assign an ordering to. Also, my opinion may change as I look back over day1 more and as things unfold today.
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Looking back: did Axxle go VLA or something? because he kind of disappeared at the end of yesterday. I checked the VLA thread and didn't see anything...his absence there all through the end of the day is looking pretty scummy to me...until I hear otherwise I'm reversing the order of Axxle and Frisk, so scumScore switches to 43 Axxle, 40 Frisk.
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I do not understand shraeye as max town either.
I would go Eevee, galz, everyone else on lekkit wagon, and then the other 3
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I thought about the night some bit, particularly this:
If Eevee is town, and all the scum were not already on his wagon (read: none were bussing Lekkit), why wouldn't one switch his vote to hammer out Eevee?
Alternatively: If any of the people not voting Eevee were scum, why did they let Lekkit die?
This is my thinking as well, but why kill off the wagon if both scum are there?
I think that Mafia definitely went for raerae last night, and that Robz doctored raerae. And I think that there is an SK as well, who shot Robz. My theory on SKs is that they are better off in the beginning trying to hit mafia to balance the power between a multiple-person scumfaction, and their single-person scum faction. They shot a random person off-wagon who looked scummy to them, hoping to hit mafia.
That's why it seems like such a small subset of people when I said to look at Eevee-wagoners and theorel. I think the question "but why did mafia kill off-wagon?" is not going to lead us in the right direction, because Robz was an SK-kill.
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I will laugh so hard after the game if it turns out Robz was the target of a Vigilante shot.
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I'm just disappointed he wasn't a SK, which would have earned me major awesomeness cred.
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I will laugh so hard after the game if it turns out Robz was the target of a Vigilante shot.
Oh god, I had not even thought of a Vig. Shame on the vig if they shot night 1 AND hit Robz.
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I will laugh so hard after the game if it turns out Robz was the target of a Vigilante shot.
Can you imagine a setup that rolls 5 V's, 1 M, and 1 T? Ha!
Anyway, back on topic, we now have a confirmed 1xM, and 1xD - resulting in the elimination of 7xT and 6xT possibilities.
This means that if there IS a Serial Killer, one of three situations is true:
A) We have no more power roles
B) We have two more rolls that can be distributed to us
C) We have four more rolls that can be distributed to us
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And while the odds of there being a Godfather went down, they're still 4/6 - although the two most likely scenarios do not include one.
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Likewise unless we have no more power roles whatsoever, scum will have a Roleblocker.
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I also claimed VT.
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I also claimed VT.
Munch would be so proud.
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I also claimed VT.
Which isn't an actual role, per say, but it means that there is one less person that could have one.
(In this setup all scum + roles are determined, and then VT's fill the rest. While you could count total VT's to get a ballpark idea of what you're looking for... That would be a terrible, terrible idea. Forget I even theorized about it.)
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I also claimed VT.
Munch would be so proud.
Probably contributed to Galzria making the right decision and lynching scum instead of me.
@Galzria
Right, that's what I'm saying. One extra piece of information that helps solving the setup for you, although admittedly not a very meaningful one. Yet anyways.
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I also claimed VT.
Munch would be so proud.
I hate you both, Eevee and Munch. Shraeye, relay this to Munch please.
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aaaa sorry lost internet access, what did i miss
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aaaa sorry lost internet access, what did i miss
Everything, cavyie, game is over.
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aaaa sorry lost internet access, what did i miss
Everything, cavyie, game is over.
:( :(
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I also claimed VT.
Munch would be so proud.
I hate you both, Eevee and Munch. Shraeye, relay this to Munch please.
What did I ever do!
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Cayvie, Eevee, I just have my sassy pants on tonight. You're both still cute.
On to real stuffs...I have a question. Is everybody just assuming we could not possibly be lucky enough to have two mafia targets D1? Is that why Eevee is getting a pass/his towntasticness has improved in many people's eyes? No offense, dear sir, I'm just trying to get my mind wrapped around thoughts. Had Lekkit flipped town would we still be on Eevee's case? Does it make sense that if town had been split between two bad guys the third bad guy would have to try to create a wagon basically on his own? Is it possibly that they just decided to make a martyr out of Lekkit which could explain his fabulously bad behavior the last couple pages of his life?
Totally lied about having a question...sorry folks.
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I will laugh so hard after the game if it turns out Robz was the target of a Vigilante shot.
Can you imagine a setup that rolls 5 V's, 1 M, and 1 T? Ha!
Anyway, back on topic, we now have a confirmed 1xM, and 1xD - resulting in the elimination of 7xT and 6xT possibilities.
This means that if there IS a Serial Killer, one of three situations is true:
A) We have no more power roles
B) We have two more rolls that can be distributed to us
C) We have four more rolls that can be distributed to us
---
And while the odds of there being a Godfather went down, they're still 4/6 - although the two most likely scenarios do not include one.
---
Likewise unless we have no more power roles whatsoever, scum will have a Roleblocker.
i don't really think we can calculate the probability of the random numbers, given that we know there was a mistake made (and then fixed) in the setup.
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I will laugh so hard after the game if it turns out Robz was the target of a Vigilante shot.
Can you imagine a setup that rolls 5 V's, 1 M, and 1 T? Ha!
Anyway, back on topic, we now have a confirmed 1xM, and 1xD - resulting in the elimination of 7xT and 6xT possibilities.
This means that if there IS a Serial Killer, one of three situations is true:
A) We have no more power roles
B) We have two more rolls that can be distributed to us
C) We have four more rolls that can be distributed to us
---
And while the odds of there being a Godfather went down, they're still 4/6 - although the two most likely scenarios do not include one.
---
Likewise unless we have no more power roles whatsoever, scum will have a Roleblocker.
i don't really think we can calculate the probability of the random numbers, given that we know there was a mistake made (and then fixed) in the setup.
The mistake aside, we're still using a legitimate setup, which means that the sum of all roles matches a potential roll outcome. Thus noting that we've had a single confirmed D, and a single confirmed M are important. Likewise, if even a single PR still exists, then the Mafia have a Roleblocker. The 'mistake', whatever it was, in no way impacts the legitimacy of the setup.
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sure. yes.
but i don't understand what you mean by, for example "the two most likely scenarios" when talking about a godfather.
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well I am here for a quick post....
I too feel that the best focus would be off the Lekkit lynch. The players there were yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Captain_Frisk, theorel, with myself, Robz and Lekkit off the list. That I think is the only good thing that comes from Robz being dead. So that leaves Captain Frisk, Axxle and theorel. I would put Axxle at the front of this group based off just memory, mostly a lack of memory, but then again Frisk was pretty much a null read as well for his VLA... Hmmm.... yeah I am for sure going to go back and reread on Axxle but will also do one on Frisk and theorel before placing a vote anywhere.
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well I am here for a quick post....
I too feel that the best focus would be off the Lekkit lynch. The players there were yuma, Axxle, Robz888, Lekkit, Captain_Frisk, theorel, with myself, Robz and Lekkit off the list. That I think is the only good thing that comes from Robz being dead. So that leaves Captain Frisk, Axxle and theorel. I would put Axxle at the front of this group based off just memory, mostly a lack of memory, but then again Frisk was pretty much a null read as well for his VLA... Hmmm.... yeah I am for sure going to go back and reread on Axxle but will also do one on Frisk and theorel before placing a vote anywhere.
This is roughly how I feel, with the slight modification of uncrossing yuma's name and seeing him as at least as suspicious as Axxle.
@theorel, why do you think I am the most suspicious of those on Lekkit wagon?
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PoE. This is just a gut feel thing, but everyone else seems townier than you.
Off the top of my head (and without rereading)
-shraeye: instrumental in pushing the Lekkit lynch.
-cayvie: seemed very townie to me generally, was on Lekkit early, and recommitted her vote at some point.
-Eevee: was the other viable lynch. Also, Lekkit's vote on Eevee seemed opportunistic
-Galzria: hammering when he could have stayed on Eevee.
-Jimmmmm: late to the party, and he also was defending Lekkit some earlier (defended his frustration against raerae at least). But, at the least he could easily have voted Eevee at the time. If bussing it was pretty intentional.
-Cuzz: minor defense of Lekkit (when I called him out for the weak argument for voting Eevee). Early vote, seemed more neutral to me throughout the day.
So, I think it goes something like this:
I give shraeye and Galzria the most town-cred for lynching Lekkit. Eevee gets town-credit for Lekkit's vote, and being the other viable wagon.
The other voters get some town-cred for lynching Lekkit (I mean they still did so)...but I could see any of them being bussing votes, that didn't want to move/be instrumental in a townie lynch (especially once I said I would hammer Eevee). So, at that point it just comes down to how strong my town-read was on them through the day.
Note: a lot of this depends on Eevee being town. I know that if Eevee is town, and I were in cayvie or Cuzz's shoes as scum, I would probably not have moved my vote.
Regardless, I feel this is all less important than Axxle's behavior. His last post was Dec 9. The day ended Dec 11. Checking his history, he was around.
His only comment regarding the Lekkit lynch was:
I think a lekkit lurk lynch is terrible. He always lurks.
Which was way before he seemed like a viable lynch candidate.
Vote: Axxle. Where'd you go?
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Yes I was very surprised to discover that axxle's last post was his Jimmmmmmm/Abra scum team mid-day December 9... That was before my VLA and before shraeye subbed in. Axxle hasn't posted since I left for California and not since shraeye subbed in! I feel like somewhere Axxle mentioned that his computer was down or something but can't really remember where or when.
But according to his posts here on fds (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=604;area=showposts;start=100) he has had 108 posts since that time up to today. Obviously some of that time was MXVII during night. This thread closed at December 11 at about 8 pm. Axxle had 39 posts in fds in between his last post in MXVII and the close of day. I don't like using this sort of investigative technique to solely base a case off but there certainly wasn't much in his posts in this game to make me find him townie.
Let's give him some pressure vote: Axxle
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I mean, I don't think he's suspicious because he's been posting elsewhere.
He's suspicious because he's not been posting here. Now, there are about 3 reasons for this:
1. He's away and just forgot to give notice. (This is shown false by his other activity).
2. He forgot about the game (Actually, Mods, could you issue a prod?)
3. He was intentionally avoiding commenting on what was happening at the end of the day.
If it's 3, then that's suspicious. He stuck his vote on someone who seems more likely to be town given yesterday's lynch, and then disappeared, when scum was up for lynch.
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I haven't reread yet, but it is interesting to see the race of the non Lekkit people wagoners jumping on Axxle, although LaLL has already worked once.
3 possibilities:
(a) The double off the wagon theory is invalid
(b) One of them is bussing
(c) Both are scum pushing for an easy lurker lynch, and I'll no doubt be next.
I can't imagine bussing on day 2 after a day 1 scum lynch, and it seems pretty aggressive to pursue option (c), so I have to assume that (a) is the real situation.
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Frisk would you rather have us look on the Lekkit wagon? And if so... whom? (feel free to do a reread before answering)
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Frisk would you rather have us look on the Lekkit wagon? And if so... whom? (feel free to do a reread before answering)
No - even if scum split 50/50 between the two, there's still a better chance of finding scum off the wagon, with RobZ dead, and me knowing my own alignment. Just an observation regarding your + theorels reads of the situation thus far.
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I mean, I don't think he's suspicious because he's been posting elsewhere.
He's suspicious because he's not been posting here. Now, there are about 3 reasons for this:
1. He's away and just forgot to give notice. (This is shown false by his other activity).
2. He forgot about the game (Actually, Mods, could you issue a prod?)
3. He was intentionally avoiding commenting on what was happening at the end of the day.
If it's 3, then that's suspicious. He stuck his vote on someone who seems more likely to be town given yesterday's lynch, and then disappeared, when scum was up for lynch.
Prod sent.
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Didn't forget, just a bit overwhelmed. I'll try to get into this again.
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Did some looking over Robz's day 1 posts.
He starts out arguing a bunch about vigs; not really sure I can glean anything useful from that.
He votes for theorel (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg144392#msg144392) for "uncharacteristically bad analysis", but later takes his vote off, saying he doesn't find him particularly scummy. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146035#msg146035)
He has an exchange of short posts with Axxle, where he calls him "more provoking than usual" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146041#msg146041), and replies to Axxle's question of "is that scummy?" with "I think so" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146050#msg146050).
He says he had a scumread on Watno at one point (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg146067#msg146067).
He later declares a strong townread on Galz, and likes Galz's case against Eevee. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg148918#msg148918) He stays on Eevee until the end of the day.
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I don't think any evidence there is strong enough to make me vote, but I remain suspicious of Axxle and Eevee.
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Incredibly narcissistic conspiracy theory:
Scumteam = Axxle, Eevee, Lekkit.
They try to kill me n1 because I called it (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg148874#msg148874).
Robz protects me n1 because of MXII, etc.
SK/vig kills Robz.
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Vote Count 2.1
Axxle (2): theorel, yuma
Not Voting (9): shraeye, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, raerae, and Galzria
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
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I don't think any evidence there is strong enough to make me vote, but I remain suspicious of Axxle and Eevee.
Are you just crazy because of domafia? You really think we drove wagons on 2 scum on day 1?
Best town ever
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I don't think any evidence there is strong enough to make me vote, but I remain suspicious of Axxle and Eevee.
Are you just crazy because of domafia? You really think we drove wagons on 2 scum on day 1?
Best town ever
You think it's impossible? What if Eevee were Roleblocker or Godfather? Scum would certainly rather see Lekkit lynched than Eevee in that case, right? And IF Eevee were a scum partner to Lekkit, his vote already had to be on Lekkit due to the "Him or me" argument. This means that only one other scum would be left - and if they were already on Lekkit, they couldn't switch to hammer.
I don't think it's THAT crazy. Unlikely? Yeah, probably. But crazy? Not really.
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Kind of a slow day around these parts eh? Although I guess we are hitting the weekend aren't we... (this whole week has felt like a weekend to me).
Frisk: who out of theorel, Axxle and I are the scummiest then?
If others feel off the wagon is the best place to look for scum today they should answer the above question as well (but include Frisk into their answers)
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Ok, kids! I know it's a weekend but, let's be honest, not all of you can have lives, can you? Get in here and think thoughts and let's get us some more scum! I'm doing a reread of Eevee as previously promised.
Also, Jimmmmm, I believe you suggested I read the Blitz game where Robz was one of the ICs and I read a bit of it. I appreciate the tip but don't think I can be that kind of IC just yet. I appreciate the suggestion but simply don't have the knowledge of the game or the players to give you guys anything more than my honest thoughts. *Sigh* Maybe someday...
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raerae is right, we are shooting ourselves in the foot big time by not posting now. standard weekend busies for me as well, but collectively this whole town is questionable and suspicious for still not realizing we don't have forever. im obviously a hypocrite but this is not good.
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I agree completely, but it's the weekend, and... Yeah. I'm treasure hunting, leave me alone!
In all seriousness, I'm not comfortable with the Axxle lynch. Yes, I understand LALL - it was a primary focus on Lekkit.
... But Lekkit was "acti-lurking". He was here to "defend" himself when criticism was leveled. Axxle is just MIA from many of his Mafia games. I'm sure it's RL related, but it's very likely NOT "Mafia" related. That is to say, much like ftl in M-XI, he COULD be Mafia, but his inactivity is itself not scummy.
I would personally rather focus on Throrw/CF/Yuma.
Incidentally, I would not be surprised to find scum trying to push LALL on Axxle (if he's town) as an "excusable" town lynch. As such, FoS Yuma and Theorel as per the latest votrcount. I don't think both of you are scum, but would not be surprised if one was.
Although having been on one likely scum wagon (Eevee), it's very possible scum would know they need to "play it safe" and not be too aggressive towards a second town wagon/lynch. As such, and for now, Vote: Frisk
Now. Time to stop drunk posting, and instead go make cookies (again).
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Eever - likely *town* wagon, not "likely scum wagon".
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raerae is right, we are shooting ourselves in the foot big time by not posting now. standard weekend busies for me as well, but collectively this whole town is questionable and suspicious for still not realizing we don't have forever. im obviously a hypocrite but this is not good.
then add to the conversation... off wagon or on wagon, where is the best place to find scum. Go!
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I'd definitely look for people off the wagon, especially those who were happy to pari their vote on me and let the clock run or let me die. I obviously know myself to be town 100%.
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I'd definitely look for people off the wagon, especially those who were happy to pari their vote on me and let the clock run or let me die. I obviously know myself to be town 100%.
Ok, then out of myself, theorel, axxle and frisk... where do you stand? And again I think everyone should be addressing this question... But I am asking eevee specifically because he is here and talking...
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Galz, you just made my heart happy. I've been drunk cookie baking for two days now. It's that time of year, I guess :)
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Hey guys I'm back. Had a bit of a read so mostly caught up, but I don't have time for any sort of analysis just yet. Be back in a bit.
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I agree completely, but it's the weekend, and... Yeah. I'm treasure hunting, leave me alone!
In all seriousness, I'm not comfortable with the Axxle lynch. Yes, I understand LALL - it was a primary focus on Lekkit.
... But Lekkit was "acti-lurking". He was here to "defend" himself when criticism was leveled. Axxle is just MIA from many of his Mafia games. I'm sure it's RL related, but it's very likely NOT "Mafia" related. That is to say, much like ftl in M-XI, he COULD be Mafia, but his inactivity is itself not scummy.
I would personally rather focus on Throrw/CF/Yuma.
Incidentally, I would not be surprised to find scum trying to push LALL on Axxle (if he's town) as an "excusable" town lynch. As such, FoS Yuma and Theorel as per the latest votrcount. I don't think both of you are scum, but would not be surprised if one was.
Although having been on one likely scum wagon (Eevee), it's very possible scum would know they need to "play it safe" and not be too aggressive towards a second town wagon/lynch. As such, and for now, Vote: Frisk
Now. Time to stop drunk posting, and instead go make cookies (again).
hmm
is your argument against frisk that
1) eevee is probably scum
2) if eevee is scum, frisk is probably scum?
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oh never mind, missed your correction
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First thing, about the setup.
We know it's either DMXXXXX or DMMMXXX. Obviously scum and whoever have PRs know more than this, but is it true that VTs don't know any more than this, or am I missing something?
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All right, trying to get my reread in before the family wakes up.
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I too need to reread before I can be of more use. Have a guest to entertain, so might not be today.
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First thing, about the setup.
We know it's either DMXXXXX or DMMMXXX. Obviously scum and whoever have PRs know more than this, but is it true that VTs don't know any more than this, or am I missing something?
i think the most important setup information we can glean from this is that there have to be at least 3 scum (TTTTTT is impossible)
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First up: theorel
37 posts
- Votes RobZ during RVS.
- Disagrees with RobZ on vigging.
- Unvotes RobZ as he gets heat and switches to Axxle
Also, Vote: Lekkit. Say something. People of particular interest are Robz and Eevee. A general early-reads of everyone list would be great. How do you think we can catch scum? I know you feel like you've got nothing to say, but just try to say something. Pick a player you think needs more attention and write a book on them.
This is interesting now that we know things about RobZ and Lekkit. If this was anyone other than theorel - who is also a low post counter in general, I'd accuse him of coaching lekkit to stop lurking.
- Unvotes lekkit once he shows up, and moves over to Abra for lurking.
- #347 he posts scumscores on everyone. Views RobZ as scummiest, everyone else most ly neutral except big town points for Yuma?
- #374/380 Votes eevee (374) and backs up with a compelling case (380) about eevee's behavior.
- #417 - back to RobZ
Vote: Eevee for reasons stated earlier. going to bed now.
I saw this post, and started thinking: what reasons? So I looked for reasons...
@Lekkit: Is this your reasoning then?
Vote: Shraeye
It's been a day since he subbed in, and we still haven't heard from him. And the deadline is coming up. At this time, I'd rather lynch Eevee than Robz, since I think he has contributed less this game.
Certainly you've contributed even less than Eevee. I think you need a stronger reason to lynch Eevee than him contributing less than Robz and (though not mentioned here) voting for Lekkit for lurking. Because, well, you've contributed less than Eevee...and so, if the reason to lynch is smaller contribution I think you win that race.
Another lekkit interaction.
#609 - threatens to hammer eevee
And his 4 posts from today are agreeing that he looks scummy, and then pushing on Axxle.
Yuma next, Axxle last.
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What do we think about theorel's "I'll be back in an hour and a half to hammer Eevee"? I didn't really like it at the time. If Lekkit had flipped Town, I may have accused theorel of trying to get town-cred for being on the Eevee lynch, but not wanting to actually lynch him. Another possibility is that he was trying to see if any scum would jump off the Eevee lynch and hammer Lekkit in order to save Eevee. Of course, Lekkit flipped scum, but in this situation theorel wasn't to know that.
theorel, why the wait? Why not just lynch Eevee then, rather than waste more time and keep us all in suspense?
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What do we think about theorel's "I'll be back in an hour and a half to hammer Eevee"? I didn't really like it at the time. If Lekkit had flipped Town, I may have accused theorel of trying to get town-cred for being on the Eevee lynch, but not wanting to actually lynch him. Another possibility is that he was trying to see if any scum would jump off the Eevee lynch and hammer Lekkit in order to save Eevee. Of course, Lekkit flipped scum, but in this situation theorel wasn't to know that.
theorel, why the wait? Why not just lynch Eevee then, rather than waste more time and keep us all in suspense?
you're accusing theorel of being scum who didn't know that lekkit was scum?
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Yuma
49 posts
- Explicitly doesn't vote in RVS
- Generally in favor of vigging - or at least leaving the option open based on a vigs best judgement
- Votes RobZ over vigging discussion
- Votes eevee for low post count (eevee is the first to respond to this vote)
- #326 gives reads on everyone. Nullread on lekkit, robz. Scumread on eevee
- #376 - prompts cuzz on eevee read
- #474 backs off RobZ. Prefers eevee lynch (or scummy lurker) - does not name who that scummy lurker would logically be.
- #753 promises reread of axxle / frisk / theorel
- #756 Votes axxle with no mention of the other 2 - despite elapsed 10 hours
- #759/769 - prompts me regarding reads. Still no mention of myself or theorel.
Despite having more posts, yuma wrote significantly fewer words than theorel. Catching up on him was much easier because he doesn't tend to write the 1 pagers that theorel does.
Axxle time - and then my analysis.
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Obviously a big question to come out of the night's events, as has already been touched on, is who killed Robz?
Now I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Robz Doctored raerae. Now, of course, any Doctor in his right mind would almost certainly Doctor the IC night one, which scum well know, so it's quite possible that they actually hit Robz instead, and were just lucky enough to hit a PR. But then the question would be: why Robz?
Now, I imagine there are two reasons for scum to nightkill someone in particular: 1) Because having them in the game seems to be making a scum win less likely, or 2) to lead the analysing Townies away from suspecting you. Not sure what to make of that, I guess we'll have to analyse Robz' posts a bit more.
Now, seeing as Robz was perhaps third in line for lynching, it's possible that his killer thought he looked scummy. And apparently SKs want to hit scum. And, of course, so do Vigs. So it's possible that a lone scum or well-meaning Town killed Robz, and Mafia aimed for raerae. On the other hand, it's possible that the Mafia would guess that we would guess that, and kill Robz to make us think that. The question is, then, does it benefit Mafia for Town to think that there is a SK? Does a Robz NK make it "obvious" enough that it was a SK that Mafia would do it to fool us? I suppose it's possible that shraeye brought up the SK theory in order to plant that seed and get us thinking about Robz' obvious SK. But again, how does us thinking there's a SK about help Mafia? I'm not sure.
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Axxletime
57 posts
Votes eevee for not accepting that RVS was done
Votes Galz
I think a lekkit lurk lynch is terrible. He always lurks.
Vote: Eevee
His voting feels really tactical this game, and that's just not town Eevee.
And thats about it. Post count is high, but content is ULTRA low. Has only posted once today
Didn't forget, just a bit overwhelmed. I'll try to get into this again.
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What do we think about theorel's "I'll be back in an hour and a half to hammer Eevee"? I didn't really like it at the time. If Lekkit had flipped Town, I may have accused theorel of trying to get town-cred for being on the Eevee lynch, but not wanting to actually lynch him. Another possibility is that he was trying to see if any scum would jump off the Eevee lynch and hammer Lekkit in order to save Eevee. Of course, Lekkit flipped scum, but in this situation theorel wasn't to know that.
theorel, why the wait? Why not just lynch Eevee then, rather than waste more time and keep us all in suspense?
you're accusing theorel of being scum who didn't know that lekkit was scum?
Calm down, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
What I meant was:
Situation 1) theorel didn't want to lynch Eevee because they were scumbuddies but wanted Town-cred for not going on the Lekkit lynch, which is what I was thinking at the time. Obviously not true, since Lekkit flipped scum.
Situation 2) theorel is Town and was trying to draw scum onto the Lekkit lynch because he suspected someone of bussing Eevee and thought that was a good way to find out who. Obviously if that was his plan, it didn't really work, but all the better since Lekkit was scum.
My point really was, it didn't really sit right with me, but I can't figure a way for it to make theorel look scummy, since Lekkit flipped scum.
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So - after that read, I'd rank yuma as scummier than theorel, and i have no idea what to do about Axxle. Is his lack of posting just checking out of the game because lekkit was lynched and he's just assuming the game is over?
I take back what I said about it being impossible that yuma and theorel both being scum, because Axxles complete lack of content and huge lack of posting are built in slam dunk cases. I still think it unlikely.
What I really don't like is yuma's day 2 behavior. Promises a reread - but then votes on Axxle without actually doing said reread.
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What do we think about theorel's "I'll be back in an hour and a half to hammer Eevee"? I didn't really like it at the time. If Lekkit had flipped Town, I may have accused theorel of trying to get town-cred for being on the Eevee lynch, but not wanting to actually lynch him. Another possibility is that he was trying to see if any scum would jump off the Eevee lynch and hammer Lekkit in order to save Eevee. Of course, Lekkit flipped scum, but in this situation theorel wasn't to know that.
theorel, why the wait? Why not just lynch Eevee then, rather than waste more time and keep us all in suspense?
you're accusing theorel of being scum who didn't know that lekkit was scum?
Calm down, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
What I meant was:
Situation 1) theorel didn't want to lynch Eevee because they were scumbuddies but wanted Town-cred for not going on the Lekkit lynch, which is what I was thinking at the time. Obviously not true, since Lekkit flipped scum.
Situation 2) theorel is Town and was trying to draw scum onto the Lekkit lynch because he suspected someone of bussing Eevee and thought that was a good way to find out who. Obviously if that was his plan, it didn't really work, but all the better since Lekkit was scum.
My point really was, it didn't really sit right with me, but I can't figure a way for it to make theorel look scummy, since Lekkit flipped scum.
jimmmm, are you a serial killer?
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i ask because, in all this theorel theorizing, you seem to be considering two options: theorel is town, and theorel is mafia.
yet, you are clearly aware that a serial killer is a possibility in this game.
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Quick post count
2 – Jimmmmm* - 70
3 - cayvie - 46
4 - Eevee - 72
5 - Captain_Frisk - 83
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye - 6 + 32= 38
8 - Cuzz - 45
9 - theorel - 34 - Damnit theorel, can you put a username in your profile
10 - Watno >>> Galzria (5 + 80) = 85
11 - yuma - 49
12 - Axxle - 57
13 – raerae* - Dawn Summers, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child - 34
Of the scummy 4, theorel has the lowest posts, but this is consistent with his other games IIRC. I'd say that in terms of actual content, its Axxle < Yuma < Theorel, and its not even close.
On the lekkit wagon side
raerae (IC) < shraeye (i hate to think about what they are doing instead of posting) < cuzz < cayvie <<< jimmmm < eevee < galz
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i ask because, in all this theorel theorizing, you seem to be considering two options: theorel is town, and theorel is mafia.
yet, you are clearly aware that a serial killer is a possibility in this game.
Yes, thanks, that's obviously another possibility, but I'm not sure it's that relevant. He could have been Mafia-hunting as SK same as if he's Town, or it could just have been not wanting to appear neutral but also not wanting to hammer to try to avoid suspicion. Really, there may not be anything to make of it, I was mostly just thinking out loud (well, you know what I mean) to see what I could make of it.
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jimmmm, are you a serial killer?
And so I don't appear to be dodging the question, no I'm not.
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thanks for that, frisk. before any rereading i'd be inclined to vote for yuma or axxle.
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What I really don't like is yuma's day 2 behavior. Promises a reread - but then votes on Axxle without actually doing said reread.
I haven't done a full reread of everyone, this is true. But I did do a reread of Axxle before I voted for Axxle.
Yes I was very surprised to discover that axxle's last post was his Jimmmmmmm/Abra scum team mid-day December 9... That was before my VLA and before shraeye subbed in. Axxle hasn't posted since I left for California and not since shraeye subbed in! I feel like somewhere Axxle mentioned that his computer was down or something but can't really remember where or when.
But according to his posts here on fds (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=604;area=showposts;start=100) he has had 108 posts since that time up to today. Obviously some of that time was MXVII during night. This thread closed at December 11 at about 8 pm. Axxle had 39 posts in fds in between his last post in MXVII and the close of day. I don't like using this sort of investigative technique to solely base a case off but there certainly wasn't much in his posts in this game to make me find him townie.
Let's give him some pressure vote: Axxle
Like you said, he hasn't posted much, and still hasn't.... Axxle is often such an enigma to me. He doesn't do what I expect other players to do. He does what he wants to do.... but now that I have some time (I am home) I can do a reread on Frisk and theorel.
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9 - theorel - 34 - Damnit theorel, can you put a username in your profile
just go to Print screen and search "post by: theorel"
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Frisk:
84 posts - lot of posts for someone that was VLA through part of it
Day 1
he suggests pro/anti vig opinions shouldn't be voted for
votes robz because robz likes being scum
wants to vote eevee for buddying, but doesn't for like the first time ever.
lots of one-liners as he attempts to catch up MXV-Axxle style
says this
"Of the currently viable wagons, Lekkit is the closest to a lurker lynch, although I do think this is consistent with his town meta.
I'm ok with my RobZ vote for reasons posted and not seeing a compelling reason to change."
slams eevee for not being able to provide evidence of when eevee had a low post count
really wants to vote eevee and wonders why no one else will vote Robz with him...
Finally moves to Eevee at L-1 after asking if town was ok with putting Lekkit to L-1...
"Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch"
Day 2
Frisk also promises a reread "So your theory is 2 scum in theorel, Yuma axxle? Time for a reread." but doesn't get to it until three days later... although I think Frisk's point about me is that he thinks I voted w/o doing a full reread...
suggests three possibilities:
"(a) The double off the wagon theory is invalid
(b) One of them is bussing
(c) Both are scum pushing for an easy lurker lynch, and I'll no doubt be next." Which I am still a little unclear about...
rereads me, axxle and theorel. Finds theorel more town and again implies that theorel and I might be a scum team...
So I don't know. I would put Frisk on a pretty even field with Axxle, but since frisk is posting and axxle isn't I guess that makes me suspect him less? Or should it make me suspect him more?
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ooh that makes me like frisk for scum a bit too. really interesting.
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I know some of you have taken Eevee off your scum lists just based on him being the opposite wagon but I needed to reread before I gave him that pass.
In the middle of my Eevee reread something just slapped me straight in the face. With suspicion quickly mounting on Robz, Eevee had a 0% scum read on him. If Eevee were scum, he would have been wise to allow, if not feed, that suspicion instead of defending Robz. Additionally, he spent a ton of day one trying to defend himself from attacks regarding his post count. He fully admits it's lower than usual overall but not super unusual for day one. If he were scum wouldn't he just have posted more to take the heat off? Doesn't love the Lekkit lynch right up to the end but also says he hasn't had strong reads on anybody. The nails in the town coffin for me are posts #615 & #631 where he basically just says, "I've given you all the information I possibly can, I won't fakeclaim because that has serious potential to hurt town, and the rest is up to you guys."
If Lekkit or Eevee is town, I would like them to give their reads, if they get lynched, so we have something else to go on D2.
Neither has really done so so far.
I have given all my reads I'm even little bit confident about. I think spiting out pretty much complete guesses to be tsken from a confirmed townie would in fact be detrimental, because scum could easily spin those into their favor.
Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
Conclusion: Eevee is town
All that being said, I fully reserve the right to change my mind should the need arise.
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It isn't that eevee is off my scum read... I honestly don't know at this point. It is my belief that the best place to look for scum is off the lekkit wagon. That doesnt' mean there isn't any scum on the lekkit wagon, but right now, day 2 I think off is the best place to look, so honestly I haven't even looked at him since the start of day 2. If others disagree and we can't get to a lynch off wagon, I will certainly be taking a closer look at him and the other on wagoners...
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ooh that makes me like frisk for scum a bit too. really interesting.
One of these days we might even be right about tunneling in each other!
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Quick answer to Jimmmmm's question about why I waited 1.5 hours to hammer. Honestly, looking at what had happened to that point a quick-hammer seemed like something that had the potential to hurt town (given that neither Eevee nor Lekkit had claimed or given a series of "after I die look at these people" posts). I thought it would be good to at least give them the chance to do it, and since I needed to go to the store, I figured that would give an appropriate length of time.
I did kind of hope that it might catch out scum doing something stupid once I had declared intent to hammer, but it worked out even better in that Galzria hammered scum-Lekkit. Mostly though, I hold a pretty strong opinion that quickhammering is more detrimental than helpful to town (see MXII for a specific case of this), and so I'm not going to do it, really ever.
For current topics:
Realistically, I don't find Axxle scummy due to his current lurking. I mean whatever, he's busy that's fine. I find him scummy for not posting at all during the time leading to the deadline. I mean he happened to be on one of the 2 major wagons, but if his vote had been on, say, cayvie at the time, then Eevee would never even have hit L-1. So, I posted the question earlier regarding VLA, but has Axxle really been busy in all his games since the 9th? I don't see how he was so busy during the soft deadline here that he wasn't posting at all. THAT looks scummy to me. Additionally he's not posting now, and hey that's not helping his scumminess-image any, but really his complete failure to post as we neared the soft deadline reads to me as: "I don't want to be seen pushing the town-Eevee lynch and I don't want to strong bus if I can avoid it, especially if Eevee can still get lynched without my help."
If Eevee had flipped town, we'd have trouble accusing him for his absence (his vote was just sort of there). And that just looks like scummy behavior to me. SO, was he in fact busy from the 9th-11th? Or was he just not posting because he didn't want to say anything that might get him in trouble later?
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I meant to get back to this today, but a combination of a killer headache and writing an exam have prevented me from thinking at all today. I will try again tomorrow.
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Vote Count 2.2
Axxle (2): theorel, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Galzria
Not Voting (8): shraeye, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Your three free days are gone and you have started using your bankable time.
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Vote Count 2.2
Axxle (2): theorel, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Galzria
Not Voting (8): shraeye, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Your three free days are gone and you have started using your bankable time.
Buzzkill.
Come on, kids. Make words. Let's not rely on lynching lurkers. Let's have some real conversation and figure some stuff out. Working on a Theorel reread right now.
Shraeye, that whole "headache" excuse is supposed to be mine, you know.
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I feel like I have talked... and asked people to talk... to no avail.
I still need to do a reread on theorel, but mostly I am waiting for people to respond to my previous posts and questions.
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I feel like I have talked... and asked people to talk... to no avail.
I still need to do a reread on theorel, but mostly I am waiting for people to respond to my previous posts and questions.
And the talking is much appreciated! Keep it up, friend!
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35 posts - not a lot of posts, but he does have some good content in them
vig theory... yada yada yada
early vote on axxle because he was trying to inflame arguments and provoke fights amongst themselves
votes Lekkit: mostly as an attempt to get him to say something
expresses a like of the eevee wagon.
unvotes once lekkit's posts have some content (query, has anyone gone back and analyzed Lekkit's posts from Day 1. If you are town and looking for something to analyze in this game, that would be a great place to start).
Votes abra
gives high scum scores to eevee and axxle, low scores to cayvie and yuma
votes eevee as incentive to get him to do rereads he has been promising
changes to a robz vote for "the lots-of-theory not attacking anyone feel"
offers to vote eevee (who is at L-1) in 1 1/2 hours...
Day 2:
theorel provides some good analysis and gets started on the eevee wagon. He puts Frisk and Axxle up top, which I agree with. He also finds that axxle's lack of participation up toward the lekkit lynch compelling.
I read theorel as the most townie out of the players not on the Lekkit wagon. He is the theorel I remember from MVIII, protown in analysis, not very active in discussion--but active enough--good with theory and helps move the discussion forward w/o fluffy posts. He is not the theorel of MXI--although that game was so weird it probably shouldn't be used as a reference game.
I am keeping my vote on Axxle, but would consider voting for Frisk.
Galz: what is the reason you are voting frisk instead of axxle?
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Here's a thought: if Robz was killed by Mafia, then there was probably at least one Mafia bussing. One thing that Robz' death does is reduce the number of living people on the Eevee wagon. If no Mafia were bussing that means that there are probably 2 Mafia in {theorel, yuma, Axxle, CF}. Since these are the obvious top suspects, that's a bad situation for Mafia, and not one they would likely put themselves in.
Of course, this assumes that the Mafia team has 3 members, which I think is probable if they killed Robz (since that would imply that there's probably no SK).
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A big fat FOS at all of you!
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Yuma, why Frisk and not Axxle?:
I agree completely, but it's the weekend, and... Yeah. I'm treasure hunting, leave me alone!
In all seriousness, I'm not comfortable with the Axxle lynch. Yes, I understand LALL - it was a primary focus on Lekkit.
... But Lekkit was "acti-lurking". He was here to "defend" himself when criticism was leveled. Axxle is just MIA from many of his Mafia games. I'm sure it's RL related, but it's very likely NOT "Mafia" related. That is to say, much like ftl in M-XI, he COULD be Mafia, but his inactivity is itself not scummy.
I would personally rather focus on Throrw/CF/Yuma.
Incidentally, I would not be surprised to find scum trying to push LALL on Axxle (if he's town) as an "excusable" town lynch. As such, FoS Yuma and Theorel as per the latest votrcount. I don't think both of you are scum, but would not be surprised if one was.
Although having been on one likely scum wagon (Eevee), it's very possible scum would know they need to "play it safe" and not be too aggressive towards a second town wagon/lynch. As such, and for now, Vote: Frisk
Now. Time to stop drunk posting, and instead go make cookies (again).
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Yuma, why Frisk and not Axxle?:
I agree completely, but it's the weekend, and... Yeah. I'm treasure hunting, leave me alone!
In all seriousness, I'm not comfortable with the Axxle lynch. Yes, I understand LALL - it was a primary focus on Lekkit.
... But Lekkit was "acti-lurking". He was here to "defend" himself when criticism was leveled. Axxle is just MIA from many of his Mafia games. I'm sure it's RL related, but it's very likely NOT "Mafia" related. That is to say, much like ftl in M-XI, he COULD be Mafia, but his inactivity is itself not scummy.
I would personally rather focus on Throrw/CF/Yuma.
Incidentally, I would not be surprised to find scum trying to push LALL on Axxle (if he's town) as an "excusable" town lynch. As such, FoS Yuma and Theorel as per the latest votrcount. I don't think both of you are scum, but would not be surprised if one was.
Although having been on one likely scum wagon (Eevee), it's very possible scum would know they need to "play it safe" and not be too aggressive towards a second town wagon/lynch. As such, and for now, Vote: Frisk
Now. Time to stop drunk posting, and instead go make cookies (again).
Interesting. Do you subscribe to the theory that both remaining mafia are off the Lekkit wagon?
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I subscribe to the theory that's it's possible.
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I subscribe to the theory that's it's possible.
Anything's possible, including a you and eevee scumpair....
Do you feel that its likely? Probable?
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I subscribe to the theory that's it's possible.
Anything's possible, including a you and eevee scumpair....
Do you feel that its likely? Probable?
It would not surprise me, no. If I were to average all possibilities, I would probably go 10% chance both on Lekkit, 55% chance they split, and 35% chance they were both on Eevee.
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I subscribe to the theory that's it's possible.
Anything's possible, including a you and eevee scumpair....
Do you feel that its likely? Probable?
It would not surprise me, no. If I were to average all possibilities, I would probably go 10% chance both on Lekkit, 55% chance they split, and 35% chance they were both on Eevee.
theorel is obvtown to you, then?
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I subscribe to the theory that's it's possible.
Anything's possible, including a you and eevee scumpair....
Do you feel that its likely? Probable?
It would not surprise me, no. If I were to average all possibilities, I would probably go 10% chance both on Lekkit, 55% chance they split, and 35% chance they were both on Eevee.
theorel is obvtown to you, then?
Sorry. Apparently if one isn't explicit in every post, things cease to be true.
I consider him part of the Eevee lynch, since, you know, he didn't lynch Lekkit and had announced intent to hammer Eevee
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Sorry. Apparently if one isn't explicit in every post, things cease to be true.
I consider him part of the Eevee lynch, since, you know, he didn't lynch Lekkit and had announced intent to hammer Eevee
Advantage: Galzria
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Sorry. Apparently if one isn't explicit in every post, things cease to be true.
I consider him part of the Eevee lynch, since, you know, he didn't lynch Lekkit and had announced intent to hammer Eevee
okay :)
i reread jimmmmmm; he mostly just seems really new. Asking about no lynch, making serial killer theories, asking whether lynching non-lurkers might be better than lynching lurkers. also trying hard not to seem scummy--saying he doesn't want to appear like he's dodging (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg156112#msg156112) my (mostly rhetorical) question. that's not necessarily a scumtell though.
his posts after the hammer d1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg151825#msg151825) give me the impression that he legitimately didn't know how lekkit was going to flip, so there's some townpoints.
i don't know what to feel about the posts i questioned him about earlier today. well, this one is the one i thought was important earlier.
What do we think about theorel's "I'll be back in an hour and a half to hammer Eevee"? I didn't really like it at the time. If Lekkit had flipped Town, I may have accused theorel of trying to get town-cred for being on the Eevee lynch, but not wanting to actually lynch him. Another possibility is that he was trying to see if any scum would jump off the Eevee lynch and hammer Lekkit in order to save Eevee. Of course, Lekkit flipped scum, but in this situation theorel wasn't to know that.
theorel, why the wait? Why not just lynch Eevee then, rather than waste more time and keep us all in suspense?
you're accusing theorel of being scum who didn't know that lekkit was scum?
Calm down, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
What I meant was:
Situation 1) theorel didn't want to lynch Eevee because they were scumbuddies but wanted Town-cred for not going on the Lekkit lynch, which is what I was thinking at the time. Obviously not true, since Lekkit flipped scum.
Situation 2) theorel is Town and was trying to draw scum onto the Lekkit lynch because he suspected someone of bussing Eevee and thought that was a good way to find out who. Obviously if that was his plan, it didn't really work, but all the better since Lekkit was scum.
My point really was, it didn't really sit right with me, but I can't figure a way for it to make theorel look scummy, since Lekkit flipped scum.
he's like, "theorel seemed scummy, but i don't think he's lekkit's scumbuddy. and i can't think of a way for theorel to be scum without being buddies with lekkit"
except that i feel that theorel being a serial killer would be the obvious answer to that conundrum. otoh, his explanation (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg156111#msg156111)for not considering the possibility doesn't read as false to me.
eh, i think he's probably town.
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Vote Count 2.3
No change.
Axxle (2): theorel, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Galzria
Not Voting (8): shraeye, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Your three free days are gone and you have started using your bankable time.
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Yeah guys! Guys, look over here! Guys, pay attention... I am about to do something drastic!!!! Guys!!!!
vote: Captain_Frisk
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Hey, stop distracting me! I might have to lock your thread soon and steal your flip!
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You have 10 days remaining in the bank.
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and to explain why... Frisk to me is just as scummy as Axxle, both being off the Lekkit wagon.
I found his "someone convince me to switch to Lekkit" statement to be the most compelling reason. Especially as reasons were offered. It is hard for me to put myself in his, or anyone else's shoes during that time period, as I was not around for all that drama. But I don't think Frisk ever offered a compelling reason for why he didn't vote Lekkit after asking that question.
How long did he have between that and the hammer?
Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
HammerVote: Lekkit
Ok, not very long. Half an hour... but he was given compelling reasons from eevee, shraeye and a half argument from Galz.
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Can you list the compelling reasons you state- specifically which ones you felt warranted a hammer without letting lekkit claim?
Listen - I'm happy with the results - but painting me as scum just because I didn't hammer in. 30 minute window looks like your tryin to suck up to galz, especially after I called you out on how you voted without doing your homework
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I suppose I can do that. And Frisk I did not my homework. I did the reread on Axxle and felt it was a good enough reason to vote. I still do. I am absolutely ok with lynching either you or Axxle. My vote on axxle wasn't getting anything moving, so I switched to you. It got you to talk to me, so that was something... now hopefully we can get some more and potentially some votes. It wasn't sucking up to Galz. Why would I want to suck up to Galz anyways?
But here is what you asked for.
Eevee:
Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
not the best reason, but still a reason... he later adds
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
again, not the best because it is a "I would do this if I were..." argument, but is still worth looking into.
shraeye:
aNYONE notice that Lekkit was saying nothing all day, and suddently is here to post his face off defending himself now that it is very possible that he'll get lyncheD??
and
No, Lekkit hasn't tried to get us to see his perspective. I can't remember any information he's contributed other than "i dont' know what to say". He has also specifically said taht he doesn't want to add to the randomness. Adding your thoughts doesn't increase randomness, it helps peopel scumhunt. The fact that you had no thoughts to add really make me convinced Lekkit is a great lynch today.
Galz:
Alright. I'm NOT tied to my reads. I voted Lekkit before I voted Eevee, and I'm willing to go back. His spam posting read very townie to me - in the way that Joth did in RMM3 when he started spamming the thread after being called a liar. But I think we need to end the day, get a flip, and go from there, and Lekkit could still be scum. It's 5 minutes to the half hour. At the half hour, unless there's a damn good reason not to do so, I'm flipping to Lekkit.
again, not a full case, if anything perhaps it is more of a defense, but inspite of this was willing to vote for Lekkit.
On top of these there was a day's worth of information about Lekkit--most of which I too deemed to be incorrect as I had a town read on Lekkit based off my MVIII experience wherein I was town, Lekkit was town and you were scum... not that our alignments really have any bearing here.
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So, none of those were compelling reasons to switch - you even see to admit it yourself.
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So, none of those were compelling reasons to switch - you even see to admit it yourself.
in and off themselves no. But cumulatively yes, and especially when they were in response to you who expressed a willingness to vote for lekkit.
I guess that is my question, partially because it is a question that I ask myself regarding what would I have done if I had been present, Why didn't you vote Lekkit when you expressed the interest? What sort of evidence were you looking for to vote Lekkit? Were you preempted by Galz or were you very set upon Eevee.
And again I ask. If you think off the Lekkit wagon is the best place to vote, who would you vote for and why haven't you voted for them? Is it me? Is it Axxle? Is it theorel? Is it you?
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So, none of those were compelling reasons to switch - you even see to admit it yourself.
in and off themselves no. But cumulatively yes, and especially when they were in response to you who expressed a willingness to vote for lekkit.
I guess that is my question, partially because it is a question that I ask myself regarding what would I have done if I had been present, Why didn't you vote Lekkit when you expressed the interest? What sort of evidence were you looking for to vote Lekkit? Were you preempted by Galz or were you very set upon Eevee.
And again I ask. If you think off the Lekkit wagon is the best place to vote, who would you vote for and why haven't you voted for them? Is it me? Is it Axxle? Is it theorel? Is it you?
I think that is you, but I don't want to be hasty. I'd like to see actual axxle content before I go hog wild
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C'mon people let's get something going here.
@Galzria: do you think that whatever is making Axxle not post now, was keeping him from posting at the end of day1? If so, why was he posting in other mafia threads? If not, do you find that lack of posting suspicious?
I'm fine with his current lurking as a null-tell...I really really wish he'd start posting some stuff, I mean he's one of the four living people not responsible for lynching scum yesterday, so either he's scum or he's got a pretty good chance of picking out scum.
@everyone else: stop acting like we're in lylo. We lynched scum day1...we've got 4 people who didn't participate in that lynch. Chances are very good one of them is scum.
I think I'll Vote: Captain Frisk to see if I can inspire some people into action.
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OK, that was awful. Just awful. Did a full reread of Theorel (through page 32 or 33ish?) and have just above a null read on him. Nothing about him seems scummy but nothing just SCREAMS town either. Sorry guys, that was a super waste of time on my part. Getting caught up then probably looking at yuma unless somebody has another suggestion?
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OK, that was awful. Just awful. Did a full reread of Theorel (through page 32 or 33ish?) and have just above a null read on him. Nothing about him seems scummy but nothing just SCREAMS town either. Sorry guys, that was a super waste of time on my part. Getting caught up then probably looking at yuma unless somebody has another suggestion?
Look at me before you read Yuma.
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Vote Count 2.4
Captain_Frisk (3): Galzria, yuma, theorel {L-3}
Not Voting (8): shraeye, Axxle, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Eevee, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Your three free days are gone and you have started using your bankable time.
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In the middle of my Eevee reread something just slapped me straight in the face. With suspicion quickly mounting on Robz, Eevee had a 0% scum read on him. If Eevee were scum, he would have been wise to allow, if not feed, that suspicion instead of defending Robz. Additionally, he spent a ton of day one trying to defend himself from attacks regarding his post count. He fully admits it's lower than usual overall but not super unusual for day one. If he were scum wouldn't he just have posted more to take the heat off? Doesn't love the Lekkit lynch right up to the end but also says he hasn't had strong reads on anybody. The nails in the town coffin for me are posts #615 & #631 where he basically just says, "I've given you all the information I possibly can, I won't fakeclaim because that has serious potential to hurt town, and the rest is up to you guys."
I've thought a bit about whether Eevee being town is a good conclusion to come to. I tend to think Eevee is town, but I definitely don't want to discount the possibility that we drove up wagons on two scum. Crazy things happen sometime. Still, Eevee is mildly townish to me right now
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Didn't forget, just a bit overwhelmed. I'll try to get into this again.
This sounds honest to me. I don't think Axxle is a good lynch today, but I encourage him to come back and post whatever's on his mind. I'm not liking jumping to an Axxle lynch.
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Back, trying to readthrough literally now. PINL
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This is why I hate active players referencing active games out of thread.
Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm / Abra / Cuzz scumteam.
Job done.
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by abra do you mean shraeye?
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by abra do you mean shraeye?
Yeah, but apparently: lekkit is scum so my crazy theory doesn't work.
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if he is rereading from where he last posted... then he didn't know that abra had been replaced by shraeye. Axxle's last post had been before shraeye entered the game. That is how long Axxle disappeared for.
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shhhhh...
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OK, that was awful. Just awful. Did a full reread of Theorel (through page 32 or 33ish?) and have just above a null read on him. Nothing about him seems scummy but nothing just SCREAMS town either. Sorry guys, that was a super waste of time on my part. Getting caught up then probably looking at yuma unless somebody has another suggestion?
Look at me before you read Yuma.
Baby, I been lookin' at you all day!
Seriously though, will do, sir.
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Ugh I am so behind on this game, I apologize. I'm gonna try to be caught up by tomorrow. Gonna focus reread on off-wagon, especially Yuma.
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finally... I have been trying to get people to look at me all day!
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who said that?
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who said that?
who said what?
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up to about Post 460 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg150987#msg150987) along with some jumping around later on Day 1: cayvie, shraeye, Eevee are all town (can go further into this if you want). Along with raerae and me that's 5 so far, not bad, not bad. And Frisk is my biggest scumread.
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who said that?
who said what?
finally... I have been trying to get people to look at me all day!
/invisiyuma joke
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up to about Post 460 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg150987#msg150987) along with some jumping around later on Day 1: cayvie, shraeye, Eevee are all town (can go further into this if you want). Along with raerae and me that's 5 so far, not bad, not bad. And Frisk is my biggest scumread.
cayvie - There was an early FOS by lekkit seems unnecessary for a scumbuddy. Reaction to Eevee "rolefishing" seems genuine.
shraeye - Vote by lekkit to get heat off him seemed like setting up a lurky townie. I like his catchup posts, a lot.
Eevee - Said "That's a good way to prove your towniness, Lekkit" when Lekkit started going crazy with single word posts. He was also Lekkit's counterwagon.
Captain_Frisk - Subtly tried to put some breaks on the lekkit lynch mentioning town meta.
Maybe there's more but I'm still going through.
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Town read on Jimmm. His vote doesn't feel like bussing and his read on Lekkit seems to naturally progress throughout the day.
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I'm giving Yuma a minor bit of suspicion over this, (i think Frisk already pointed it out).
"I prefer an Eevee lynch. Or a scummy lurker lynch." But when Jimmmm asked yuma about what scummy lurker was a good lynch, yuma didn't want to go for Lekkit
post count: (nothing taken away for pregame stuff:
1 – Robz888: 54
2 – Jimmmmm: 42
3 - cayvie: 33
4 - Eevee: 27
5 - Captain_Frisk: 34
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 5+9
7 - Lekkit: 13
8 - Cuzz: 18
9 - theorel: 23
10 - Watno >>> Galzria: 5+28
11 - yuma: 42
12 - Axxle: 57
13 – raerae-- who cares...
So from this I prefer the lynch of eevee. I have reread him and know what he has done this game pretty well. The others I haven't reread, so this is more based of memory.
cayvie, Cuzz are the first two that come to mind. Both the subins have substantially increased their posts since subbing in and I hate to hold them accountable for their predecessors. Lekkit rings same Lekkit as MVIII and I tried to lynch him (twice) and that turned out to be a disaster, so avoiding that again. Theorel has been the most substance per post and has been very town.
So yeah, cayvie and cuzz I could be ok with. But I am staying on Eevee.
Still, looking through yuma's business this is the only thing that stands out to me. There are other things that really make me feel that yuma is town. But for thoroughness I'd love to know how many people think the funny business is really scummy, and how many think it's just a bit odd.
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I'm giving Yuma a minor bit of suspicion over this, (i think Frisk already pointed it out).
"I prefer an Eevee lynch. Or a scummy lurker lynch." But when Jimmmm asked yuma about what scummy lurker was a good lynch, yuma didn't want to go for Lekkit
post count: (nothing taken away for pregame stuff:
1 – Robz888: 54
2 – Jimmmmm: 42
3 - cayvie: 33
4 - Eevee: 27
5 - Captain_Frisk: 34
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 5+9
7 - Lekkit: 13
8 - Cuzz: 18
9 - theorel: 23
10 - Watno >>> Galzria: 5+28
11 - yuma: 42
12 - Axxle: 57
13 – raerae-- who cares...
So from this I prefer the lynch of eevee. I have reread him and know what he has done this game pretty well. The others I haven't reread, so this is more based of memory.
cayvie, Cuzz are the first two that come to mind. Both the subins have substantially increased their posts since subbing in and I hate to hold them accountable for their predecessors. Lekkit rings same Lekkit as MVIII and I tried to lynch him (twice) and that turned out to be a disaster, so avoiding that again. Theorel has been the most substance per post and has been very town.
So yeah, cayvie and cuzz I could be ok with. But I am staying on Eevee.
Still, looking through yuma's business this is the only thing that stands out to me. There are other things that really make me feel that yuma is town. But for thoroughness I'd love to know how many people think the funny business is really scummy, and how many think it's just a bit odd.
I literally just read this and was going to post something about it. I do find it scummy, but a few posts earlier his gentle nudge with explaining to Jimmmm about how a Robz lynch would be bad seemed very town to me.
You're going down my list of town persons though since you keep making the "look how odd this is" scumtell.
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No I certainly did not want to lynch Lekkit. I was extremely surprised that he flipped scum... well a little less surprised after he reacted to heavier pressure, but surprised nonetheless.
MVIII was one game before your time and it is still a pretty bitter memory for me. We no lynched day 1 because a lurker-Lekkit wagon stalled and then I started up the wagon again on Lekkit day 2 and got him lynched. That whole game was a disaster.
I felt that Lekkit was playing exactly the same as in MVIII, up to that point at least.
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I dont know why i put off rereading this game this much, sorry guys, what shraeye just pointed out is pretty huge though imo, i'll vote: yuma
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I dont know why i put off rereading this game this much, sorry guys, what shraeye just pointed out is pretty huge though imo, i'll vote: yuma
No, Eevee. Reread yuma yourself first. Don't look at one piece of info, say "that's pretty huge" and throw down a vote. I think yuma explains himself well in response to what I said was only "minor suspicion".
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Vote: Captain Frisk
Stuff like this just seems very contrived:
So basically, you can't list a single game in which you were town and were near the bottom of the post count. Got it.
Must.... resist..... urge.... to.... tunnel........ eevee.
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These are the combination of posts that left me with a scum read on Frisk. I've been holding off posting until we got more chatter going on in here. My D2 reasons stand as stated, but these had already stood out to me:
<crickets>
We've used 1/3 of our bankable days. We need to lynch. Someone. I find Eevee scummy, but I'm willing to put that off for another day.
Vote: Lekkit
I'm certainly willing to move my vote elsewhere. I've got no absolute reads, but if nothing else Lekkit's reaction to being called out for lurking is scummy - And the "I've got nothing to say, it's D1" is very unhelpful at best. I get it, D1 sucks. We all push to get through it though and make the best out of nothing. If nobody does anything, nothing happens.
I'm still suffering from mafia catchup overload, but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. At the time of your vote - eevee lynch looks more viable, and yet you choose lekkit, and your reasoning is that he says he's bad at day 1 - which ignores eevee being scummy as recently as the last page:
Self meta arguments are meh, but no one else is saying this so... This is NOT AT ALL like scumEevee n RMM3.
The low post count is (as you point out) very out of character for you as town as well.
Not unheard of though. I'm often like this in day 1.
Lynching lurker lekkit lights my lovehandles too, but I'm just not sure I understand why you prefer one to the other. Eevee's low involvement is semi out of character. Lekkit's isn't.
And why is nobody with me on RobZ?
In the above quote he really tries to redirect to any of the other wagons. He even gives me a "if all you cared about was viability" line which I find very fake. Of course that's not the case. In the second post below (same page, fwiw), he's suddenly willing to "consider" putting Lekkit at L-1... But that vote was NEVER forthcoming.
I still prefer RobZ, but in the interest of moving this forward, I would say that a reread of Lekkit's posts does seem plausible as scum-lurking.
Are we comfortable putting him at L-1?
Instead, we get the following quote, "prove to me this will work with evidence from previous games".
Man, I support the Lekkit lynch for LaLL and his reaction to being called out by the IC...
But I also can't get over f.DS leaving "Lynch Mafia, not Scum" somewhere in our history books.
I'm gonna stay on him for now, because I think we need a lynch to go through - and I'll probably be painted as a crazy hedger but whatever - but I really don't know.
Robz IS right when he said earlier that this matches Town!Lekkit Meta.
Equally however, Cayvie is right that Town!Meta Lekkit should not be difficult to mimic as Scum!Lekkit.
Blargh.
Still, LaLL stands, I think. It's something we don't actually follow through with frequently enough, and goodness how often it would hit scum if we did! So I'm happy (as happy as I can be) with my vote here.
Do we have data that suggests that the worst lurker has historically been scum?
Lastly, I switch my vote to Eevee in #556... And Frisk jumps all over it, without a moments pause. 13 posts later he takes my L-2 vote to L-1:
Ok - we did talk about an end of day tuesday thing right?
Vote: Eevee I don't recall seeing him as his normal buddy buddy which drives me bonkers, but he's definitely posting less than normal.
Per Galz - this is L-1.
I was honestly left with the feeling that Frisk was really dragging the Lekkit lynch. Concerned about missing out if it was going to go down, but really, really wanting anybody but. Even when Lekkit was at L-2, he asked if we were ready for him to be L-1, then never put him there - but with Eevee, there was no hesitation and no questioning.
Dunno, but of everybody "off" the eventual Lekkit lynch, Frisk stands our the most hands down.
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I dont know why i put off rereading this game this much, sorry guys, what shraeye just pointed out is pretty huge though imo, i'll vote: yuma
No, Eevee. Reread yuma yourself first. Don't look at one piece of info, say "that's pretty huge" and throw down a vote. I think yuma explains himself well in response to what I said was only "minor suspicion".
i think his repsonse wasn't adequate and also they he should be suspected more over that.
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... but i also really like galzria's frisk case.
like all the cases?
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Vote Count 2.5
Captain_Frisk (4): Galzria, yuma, theorel, Axxle {L-2}
yuma (1): Eevee
Not Voting (6): shraeye, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
Your three free days are gone and you have started using your bankable time.
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Can anybody tell me if Frisk and Eevee have a history of suspecting each other? Correctly or incorrectly, doesn't matter to me, just wondering if it is commonplace for those two?
Unrelated, but is Cayvie around? Have I just missed her?
Frisk, still working on your reread.
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Frisk seems to think we do. I don't feel I have a history of suspecting town-Frisk. He used to think I was scum like always though, I feel he has since learned. A bit.
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At around Vote Count 1.13, probably will catch up tomorrow at this rate. Taking a break for now.
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Can anybody tell me if Frisk and Eevee have a history of suspecting each other? Correctly or incorrectly, doesn't matter to me, just wondering if it is commonplace for those two?
No clue.
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Thanks, Eevee. Good to know.
@Frisk, how much do you rely on meta-arguments for your reads? Do you consider them to be more important early in the game or the same throughout?
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Ok, done with Frisk but not functional enough to post thoughtful thoughts so I'm just going to express my displeasure at his lynch...for now. He seems a little townie, seems a little scummy. I want to do a yuma reread and hear some Axxle thoughts before committing to anything. I'll be around tomorrow night for that.
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Thanks, Eevee. Good to know.
@Frisk, how much do you rely on meta-arguments for your reads? Do you consider them to be more important early in the game or the same throughout?
SEcond question first, I'd say that its not more any more important early than late.
As for how much I rely, that's a tough one. Obviously I was wrong about RobZ, so it makes me question using meta at all, but I absolutely treat different people differently based on their previous play. For example, if Morgrim was to come in here and self vote, I'd probably just shrug. When Galzria did it in MXV - I jumped all over him.
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Thanks, Eevee. Good to know.
@Frisk, how much do you rely on meta-arguments for your reads? Do you consider them to be more important early in the game or the same throughout?
SEcond question first, I'd say that its not more any more important early than late.
As for how much I rely, that's a tough one. Obviously I was wrong about RobZ, so it makes me question using meta at all, but I absolutely treat different people differently based on their previous play. For example, if Morgrim was to come in here and self vote, I'd probably just shrug. When Galzria did it in MXV - I jumped all over him.
Which, as it happened, was more luck on your part than a good meta-read, as I had done so in 4 previous games, and been town in each. Just sayin'.
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Thanks, Eevee. Good to know.
@Frisk, how much do you rely on meta-arguments for your reads? Do you consider them to be more important early in the game or the same throughout?
SEcond question first, I'd say that its not more any more important early than late.
As for how much I rely, that's a tough one. Obviously I was wrong about RobZ, so it makes me question using meta at all, but I absolutely treat different people differently based on their previous play. For example, if Morgrim was to come in here and self vote, I'd probably just shrug. When Galzria did it in MXV - I jumped all over him.
Which, as it happened, was more luck on your part than a good meta-read, as I had done so in 4 previous games, and been town in each. Just sayin'.
It's unacceptable and you know it.
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Thanks, Eevee. Good to know.
@Frisk, how much do you rely on meta-arguments for your reads? Do you consider them to be more important early in the game or the same throughout?
SEcond question first, I'd say that its not more any more important early than late.
As for how much I rely, that's a tough one. Obviously I was wrong about RobZ, so it makes me question using meta at all, but I absolutely treat different people differently based on their previous play. For example, if Morgrim was to come in here and self vote, I'd probably just shrug. When Galzria did it in MXV - I jumped all over him.
Which, as it happened, was more luck on your part than a good meta-read, as I had done so in 4 previous games, and been town in each. Just sayin'.
It's unacceptable and you know it.
It's a fine and useful tool for town. Sometimes.
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Can anybody tell me if Frisk and Eevee have a history of suspecting each other? Correctly or incorrectly, doesn't matter to me, just wondering if it is commonplace for those two?
Unrelated, but is Cayvie around? Have I just missed her?
Frisk, still working on your reread.
i'm around. my sleep schedule has changed of late, so i'm on at different times than i used to be.
It's a fine and useful tool for town. Sometimes.
[/quote]
is this an intentional O allusion?
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It's a fine and useful tool for town. Sometimes.
is this an intentional O allusion?
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Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
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/invisiYuma strikes again!
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/invisiYuma strikes again!
hahahahaha!!! {evil cackle}
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/invisiYuma strikes again!
hahahahaha!!! {evil cackle}
Seriously guys, after you're done with me, I think you should look at him.
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/invisiYuma strikes again!
hahahahaha!!! {evil cackle}
Seriously guys, after you're done with me, I think you should look at him.
I too agree with this conclusion
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Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
if there is anyone on the Lekkit wagon that I am most suspicious of it would be Cuzz... but I don't think he is the ideal lynch for today as I think there is a great chance of finding scum off the Lekkit wagon.
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Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
if there is anyone on the Lekkit wagon that I am most suspicious of it would be Cuzz... but I don't think he is the ideal lynch for today as I think there is a great chance of finding scum off the Lekkit wagon.
I agree I don't like Cuzz either, but apparently he was mislynched in ZM6 for lurking as well... so I'm having reservations.
My best bet on scum is: Yuma.
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Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
if there is anyone on the Lekkit wagon that I am most suspicious of it would be Cuzz... but I don't think he is the ideal lynch for today as I think there is a great chance of finding scum off the Lekkit wagon.
I agree I don't like Cuzz either, but apparently he was mislynched in ZM6 for lurking as well... so I'm having reservations.
My best bet on scum is: Yuma.
my suspicion of cuzz isn't based on his lurking. it is based on his play throughout day 1.
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Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
if there is anyone on the Lekkit wagon that I am most suspicious of it would be Cuzz... but I don't think he is the ideal lynch for today as I think there is a great chance of finding scum off the Lekkit wagon.
I agree I don't like Cuzz either, but apparently he was mislynched in ZM6 for lurking as well... so I'm having reservations.
My best bet on scum is: Yuma.
my suspicion of cuzz isn't based on his lurking. it is based on his play throughout day 1.
Ok, to start, can you elaborate on this?
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oh sure pick me, one of the very few people who has posted anything of substance today or throughout much of Day 2 to elaborate... why not ask other people to participate as well?
but yes, I'll do so now...
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"Please look at me"
"Why are you looking at me?!?!?!?!?"
That looks very scummy.
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Next, general things:
I think wagon analysis here has a slightly different feel to it from other games. Specifically, the fact that we had two wagons at L-1 simultaneously, and it really felt like the end of the day could have gone either way. So, if Eevee is town, and has a very good chance of being lynched (especially if theorel is town/telling the truth about the hammer), scum is probably just holding their breath and hoping the lynch falls in their favor, which it didn't. After the Eevee wagon built up, why would scum start bussing then? My point is that I think there's a chance that all scum were off wagon, and almost no chance that all scum were on wagon. I think Galz is almost certainly town in particular. If there is scum who voted for Lekkit, it would have to have been someone who was on Lekkit for a while from the beginning. Shraeye maybe? But I think looking off wagon is where to focus today, as many others have mentioned.
While I'm thinking of shraeye, I remember the weird time when Lekkit voted for shraeye for lurking right after replacing in, which just seemed super odd, since it was a weekend and he still needed time to reread. This probably means shraeye is more likely to be town, right?
(oh, btw I'm using town and scum here to mean not mafia/mafia. A serial killer would basically be acting as town during the day for all intents and purposes, and wagon analysis tells us nothing there)
So off wagon is theorel, Axxle, yuma, Frisk. I had a big townread on theorel D1. Is it really possible there's two scum in yuma/Frisk/Axxle? I can't imagine scum having put themselves in such a bad situation so early in the game, but maybe that attitude of mine is exactly the kind of WIFOM that could get them out of it. I think we should seriously consider the possibility. And I should probably rethink my townread on theorel, though he really does seem more like XII theorel than XI theorel.
So, I did have a scum read on yuma, and don't remember much from Frisk D1. I'll post my full thoughts on yuma later, but I did notice that yuma comes in D2 with:
A full reread on Frisk complete with an FoS. This definitely leaves the possibility of a Frisk/yuma scumteam open. It reminds me a bit of the case yuma built on me early in XIV. I don't think yuma would play exactly the same way as scum every time, but hard bussing against a scum partner who was not suspected a ton beforehand is well within yuma's scum wheelhouse.
Another random remark: Frisk's "tell me why I should switch to Lekkit" when the reasons should have been beyond obvious gives me a bad feeling.
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oh sure pick me, one of the very few people who has posted anything of substance today or throughout much of Day 2 to elaborate... why not ask other people to participate as well?
but yes, I'll do so now...
I mentioned this earlier. I'm very narcissistic in mafia. I pay much more attention when people are talking about me, so your unsubstantiated FoS on me stuck out like a beacon.
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"Please look at me"
"Why are you looking at me?!?!?!?!?"
That looks very scummy.
Oy - don't you have a shit ton of homework to be doing? Like defending your lurking?
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Scum didnt "put themselves on this situation" in that Lekkit being lynched certainly wasnt their preference.
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"Please look at me"
"Why are you looking at me?!?!?!?!?"
That looks very scummy.
Oy - don't you have a shit ton of homework to be doing? Like defending your lurking?
No need to defend my lurking, I've been siteflaking.
I do have a ton of reading to do.
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Scum didnt "put themselves on this situation" in that Lekkit being lynched certainly wasnt their preference.
The bad situation I'm referring to is the hypothetical one in which the rest of them were on you, and then Lekkit got lynched instead. That would be particularly unfortunate for them.
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Another random remark: Frisk's "tell me why I should switch to Lekkit" when the reasons should have been beyond obvious gives me a bad feeling.
When I reread - I still found eevee scummy. I think you'll find this is unfortunately extremely consistent with my previous games.
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Lekkit getting lynched altogether was super unfortunate for them. They had plenty of incentive to try to not make that happen. Glad we had Galz.
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If this was elementary school, Frisk would be my bully. And I even like the dude!
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Cuzz's point is a good one, and one I meant to being up but forgot:
When Eevee went to L-1, Lekkit had 4 votes (L-3), which included Eevee's. If scum had wanted to avoid Lekkit's lynch (one would assume they did?), and they had the ability to do so (weren't already voting Eevee) - wouldn't it have made more sense for them to finish Eevee off, instead of waiting for Lekkit's wagon to grow (or more, contributing to it's growth)?
Raerae was vote 5 on Lekkit. She's confirmed town.
Jimmmm was vote 6. As scum, this makes no sense. He's likely confirmed town (not IC, but very, very townie).
I know that I'm town.
Eevee is almost certainly town.
If scum were on Lekkit's lynch, they actively choose to get him lynched instead of hammering Eevee, AND they committed to the bus very early on. That would be out of Cayvie/Shraeye/Cuzz. None of them were "bandwagon voters", and none of them "got on to buy cred before the lynch".
That all adds up to significantly reduce the odds on them being Mafia. Doesn't erase it entirely, but it's much less likely. Eevee was L-1 for over 15 minutes before Lekkit hit L-1. There was ample opportunity to switch.
Granted, they might've thought "there's no way Lekkit is getting lynched now over Eevee, so I'm gonna sit back" - until it was too late to switch... But odds are strong that there is indeed one off the wagon, and decent that there are two.
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47 posts:
Cuzz starts out the game voting for me: his logic was based off my vote/quick unvote of Robz. I have said before that this is a weak case. Not even vote worthy. It is exactly the type of case that scum tries to start early in games. I did in MXIV, so did Cuzz (mine was a bussing one however), ash did it in MV--where I rightly called him out for it.
Cuzz then shifts his vote to Robz (now confirmed town Doc) and sheeps Frisk's vote and logic of Robz preferring to play scum. Again, really weak case. In fact, not even a case at all.
And then he is back to me. This time for a "vibe, without any real facts or evidence. Again, really really weak.
He then has a post about Lekkit, Jimmm, Robz and I; doesn't present anything new that I hadn't heard or seen before.
moves to a Lekkit vote for his vote on sub-in shraeye. at this point Lekkit had 2 votes on him with raerae and cayvie. Looks like a potential bus vote because it was for something pretty weird, but easily taken off once Lekkit unvotes shraeye.
continues to keep his vote on Lekkit; doesn't like him lurking, his 10 straight one word posts, his lack of having reads
at the end of day 1, "kinda wants to switch to Eevee" (scum getting cold feet about bussing?)
and then 3 posts day 2.
So like I said, I don't think Cuzz is the best option today because we have off-Lekkit wagon, non-bussing scum to find. But if we didn't have them and only potential bussers were around, I would pick Cuzz. I think his cases have been weak--on me especially--I think out of all the other people voting on the Lekkit wagon, Cuzz appears to have a pretty likely bus vote (on an issue that would likely go away and then the cold feet)... But I haven't necessarily looked at all the other lekkit voters, but Cuzz's stood out to me.
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(oh, btw I'm using town and scum here to mean not mafia/mafia. A serial killer would basically be acting as town during the day for all intents and purposes, and wagon analysis tells us nothing there)
just wanted to point out that this isn't exactly true, in my experience. i've been an SK twice, and there's definitely a pressure to lynch anyone who isn't you. i would suspect that a serial killer is more likely than average to be on whatever lynch happens. not super relevant to the discussion at hand, i know.
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"Please look at me"
"Why are you looking at me?!?!?!?!?"
That looks very scummy.
I am not saying don't look at me. I want people to look at me. But the reason I want other people to look at me is so that they will be more active in this game. Just asking me a question isn't getting other people active, it is just getting me active (but I already am) although there was a flurry of activity after Cuzz posted his question, so perhaps the desired result was met regardless.
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Vote Count 2.6
No change. Where is everyone?
Captain_Frisk (4): Galzria, yuma, theorel, Axxle {L-2}
yuma (1): Eevee
Not Voting (6): shraeye, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have less than 9 days left in the bank.
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No change. Where is everyone?
even the mod is surprised...
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No change. Where is everyone?
even the mod is surprised...
Actually my own fault, I think. Blitz games really suck in everyone's attention.
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No change. Where is everyone?
even the mod is surprised...
Actually my own fault, I think. Blitz games really suck in everyone's attention.
I have thought this before but concluded that I was wrong. Blitz games tend to suck everyone into the forum, making them more likely to read other forum games as well while waiting for blitz responses, etc... I think that people in this game aren't participating for different reasons? Or maybe it is because I have been stuck at home all day making chocolate oranges and chili and I want someone to play with me while I have the time...
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Only person I really see caring about Robz dying is Eevee, which might mean he's the SK and Robz prevented the mafia kill since I don't see Eevee being Lekkit's teammate.
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Only person I really see caring about Robz dying is Eevee, which might mean he's the SK and Robz prevented the mafia kill since I don't see Eevee being Lekkit's teammate.
Why is this?
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I love having Robz alive in my games, dude seems to be the best at reading me.
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Only person I really see caring about Robz dying is Eevee, which might mean he's the SK and Robz prevented the mafia kill since I don't see Eevee being Lekkit's teammate.
Why is this?
He only cast suspicion on you. Either you wanted him quiet or someone is purposefully throwing suspiscion your way. Usually the former is the case.
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If I was mafia, I don't think people throwing suspicion at ME would be the biggest worry of my team here in day 2.
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If I was mafia, I don't think people throwing suspicion at ME would be the biggest worry of my team here in day 2.
That's why I think it's more likely you're an SK.
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If I was mafia, I don't think people throwing suspicion at ME would be the biggest worry of my team here in day 2.
That's why I think it's more likely you're an SK.
Okay, that's a reasonable theory.
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Only person I really see caring about Robz dying is Eevee, which might mean he's the SK and Robz prevented the mafia kill since I don't see Eevee being Lekkit's teammate.
Why is this?
He only cast suspicion on you. Either you wanted him quiet or someone is purposefully throwing suspiscion your way. Usually the former is the case.
mmmm vote: axxle
robz also cast suspicion on you, Axxle.
If I was mafia, I don't think people throwing suspicion at ME would be the biggest worry of my team here in day 2.
explain
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Well, I think I'm one of the towniest around here today based on yesterdays events, right up there with Galzria and shraeye. So, the hypothetical scum team with me in it would be more concerned of it's members that were not on the Lekkit wagon.
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Well, I think I'm one of the towniest around here today based on yesterdays events, right up there with Galzria and shraeye. So, the hypothetical scum team with me in it would be more concerned of it's members that were not on the Lekkit wagon.
Can someone explain why shraeye gets this obvtown vibe from everyone? You and Galz I get.
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Well, I think I'm one of the towniest around here today based on yesterdays events, right up there with Galzria and shraeye. So, the hypothetical scum team with me in it would be more concerned of it's members that were not on the Lekkit wagon.
Can someone explain why shraeye gets this obvtown vibe from everyone? You and Galz I get.
I'm ashamed to admit he gets it from me because Galz says so. I havent reread because I'm LAZY.
Apparently he was really after Lekkit though.
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I do know this makes me a terrible townie and ashersky would deserve better for creating a fun game like this for us but again, lazy.
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I do know this makes me a terrible townie and ashersky would deserve better for creating a fun game like this for us but again, lazy.
What is with you lately? I'm ready to start another wagon on you.
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I do know this makes me a terrible townie and ashersky would deserve better for creating a fun game like this for us but again, lazy.
What is with you lately? I'm ready to start another wagon on you.
Sure you are, being the alternative lynch yourself!
But what's with me, generally being apathetic about things and trying to fill the void with inventing stuff to do (like inviting someone to live with me for two weeks -> having to entertain her and being actually busy) probably. /endofrant and not an excuse, I know. But you asked!
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(like inviting someone to live with me for two weeks -> having to entertain her and being actually busy)
Nice! Like a trial run? I like it. Savvy. Please update us on your technique when you boot her out.
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But back on topic - yes, apathy feels scummy to me... but i did just mislynch you not 5 hours ago for the same behavior.
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But back on topic - yes, apathy feels scummy to me... but i did just mislynch you not 5 hours ago for the same behavior.
It's not even apathy! I am excited about going forward, just.. not excited about doing the legwork of reading back.
Also @offtopic issue: lol, nice one.
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But back on topic - yes, apathy feels scummy to me... but i did just mislynch you not 5 hours ago for the same behavior.
man, i was gonna be like... uh, weren't you scum in that game?
then i went and checked, and realized that i too had been trolled by ashersky!
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Question before I finish my post on Frisk...are D1 lynches usually wrong? All you people seem to LOVE math so give up the stats, folks.
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Question before I finish my post on Frisk...are D1 lynches usually wrong? All you people seem to LOVE math so give up the stats, folks.
Yes. They are usually wrong because scum haven't done anything wrong yet, and there are usually only abou 20-30 pct of town is scum.
Mafiascum reported that day 1 correct lynches were slightly lower than expected vs. lynching randomly.
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Question before I finish my post on Frisk...are D1 lynches usually wrong? All you people seem to LOVE math so give up the stats, folks.
They used to always hit town. Lately we've stopped derping and have actually done a LOT better. yuma probably knows the exact %, but i think that's an important distinction.
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Question before I finish my post on Frisk...are D1 lynches usually wrong? All you people seem to LOVE math so give up the stats, folks.
Yes. They are usually wrong because scum haven't done anything wrong yet, and there are usually only abou 20-30 pct of town is scum.
Mafiascum reported that day 1 correct lynches were slightly lower than expected vs. lynching randomly.
which makes sense because of fake claims and scum generally not wanting to kill their team mates.
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Fair warning: This is a beer and Christmas cookies post so I can’t be held responsible for any absurdities found herein.
My thoughts on Frisk: As I said before he seems a little scummy and a little town to me. He legitimately seemed to believe Eevee was scum based, primarily, on his meta change from previous games. According to all you vets Lekkit was lurking as all good Lekkits are known to do. Eevee, on the other hand, wasn't playing normal Eevee. At least according to Frisk. So, if we take Frisk at his word, he really thought Eevee was the more logical lynch and didn’t want to be seen hammering town. Also, Frisk was hitting Eevee pretty early in the game and didn’t ever exactly back off except when he was pushing for Robz. I suppose that could be scummy. There were two strong wagons already, one for sure for sure on scum, so maybe he was trying to get the Robz wagon restarted? I don’t know, kind of seems like an uphill battle and he would have been better spent starting something new entirely or more subtly pushing for Eevee. I’m operating under the assumption that Eevee is town here. I suppose a Lekkit/Eevee/Frisk scumteam is possible but strange and awkward and uncomfortable and I don’t like it.
Moral of the story is basically that I can see where Frisk could be seen as scummy but I read it as hesitation to lynch somebody he didn’t see as scum. In addition to all that jazz, he has provided analysis of other players when he said he would on who he said he would. I assume you wouldn’t object to read suggestions, correct Frisk?
Basically, I don’t believe he’s above suspicion but I don’t feel like he’s an AWESOME choice for a lynch today either. I realize this isn’t a super strong case but at least you know you’re getting my real live thoughts.
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Well, I think I'm one of the towniest around here today based on yesterdays events, right up there with Galzria and shraeye. So, the hypothetical scum team with me in it would be more concerned of it's members that were not on the Lekkit wagon.
Can someone explain why shraeye gets this obvtown vibe from everyone? You and Galz I get.
I would LOVE to have a scumread on shraeye. Usually I only play any game with him in an attempt to crush his soul. This time around, however, I feel we are playing for the same team :(.
He did a super-full comment-on-everything-ever reread BEFORE voting as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, sure, that argument sounds reasonable." Yes, that's exactly what you should do when subbing into a game but there are people who have been playing since the beginning of this game who haven't paid that much attention. Then he strongly advocated for the Lekkit lynch. Why would scum pop in that loud for their own kind when there was a MORE viable lynch floating around? It just doesn’t make sense.
I wish he was scummy, guys. I really really do. But I don’t see how his play so far has been scum-friendly. Please, somebody more knowledgeable than I explain how he could be bad news?
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I'm setting another soft-deadline for Thursday, December 20th, 8pm forum time. Get in here and figure stuff out. That means everybody. Any questions/objections?
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I'm setting another soft-deadline for Thursday, December 20th, 8pm forum time. Get in here and figure stuff out. That means everybody. Any questions/objections?
Nope, none. I'm good with that.
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Thoughts.
Next, general things:
I think wagon analysis here has a slightly different feel to it from other games. Specifically, the fact that we had two wagons at L-1 simultaneously, and it really felt like the end of the day could have gone either way. So, if Eevee is town, and has a very good chance of being lynched (especially if theorel is town/telling the truth about the hammer), scum is probably just holding their breath and hoping the lynch falls in their favor, which it didn't. After the Eevee wagon built up, why would scum start bussing then? My point is that I think there's a chance that all scum were off wagon, and almost no chance that all scum were on wagon. I think Galz is almost certainly town in particular. If there is scum who voted for Lekkit, it would have to have been someone who was on Lekkit for a while from the beginning. Shraeye maybe? But I think looking off wagon is where to focus today, as many others have mentioned.
While I'm thinking of shraeye, I remember the weird time when Lekkit voted for shraeye for lurking right after replacing in, which just seemed super odd, since it was a weekend and he still needed time to reread. This probably means shraeye is more likely to be town, right?
First, you simultaneously conclude that I'm more likely to be town, and say that I'm the most suspicious person on the Lekkit lynch. Try being more consistent.
vote: Cuzz
Second, you bring up a good point, but reach entirely the opposite conclusion as I have.
I think wagon analysis here has a slightly different feel to it from other games. Specifically, the fact that we had two wagons at L-1 simultaneously, and it really felt like the end of the day could have gone either way. So, if Eevee is town, and has a very good chance of being lynched (especially if theorel is town/telling the truth about the hammer), scum is probably just holding their breath and hoping the lynch falls in their favor, which it didn't.
When I am scum, and it looks like a favorable lynch for my team is going down (assuming Eevee is town, and right now, I'm ok with that) I stay away. I don't want to be on that lynch, especially if it looks like town will tip it over the edge. So I have to calculate where my vote will be. Frankly, keeping my vote on a scumbuddy that probably won't get lynched is a great idea.
But then, surprising those smug scum, the Lekkit lynch takes off and suddenly he's at L-1. Now they can't switch off Lekkit last minute in case he actually is lynched (they'll be suspected for sure), and they definitely can't jump off Lekkit and onto Eevee (it'll look terrible if eevee flips town). So we've essentially got scum stuck on the wagon of their partner.
I reached this conclusion as follows. I was doing my mafia-homework dutifully, rereading Frisk/yuma/theorel/axxle. And I find all of them towny. Probably in this order Axxle (towniest)>Yuma>Frisk>theorel. But all of them I find much more towny than some of the people on the Lekkit lynch. Cuzz, cayvie, Jimmmmm. Jimmm was a late vote to lekkit, and actually gains towny points that way. But when I think about where I would have been as scum, I realize that I would actually be more likely to have been on the Lekkit wagon early. As were Cuzz/cayvie.
So vote on Cuzz this post looks jokey because it's right next to a pithy reason. But I'm serious about it. Doubly serious.
Vote: Cuzz
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Granted, they might've thought "there's no way Lekkit is getting lynched now over Eevee, so I'm gonna sit back" - until it was too late to switch... But odds are strong that there is indeed one off the wagon, and decent that there are two.
Here's what I think scum were thinking regarding the Eevee-lynch. But I'm no longer sold that there are for sure mafia off the wagon.
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Vote Count 2.6
No change. Where is everyone?
Captain_Frisk (4): Galzria, yuma, theorel, Axxle {L-2}
yuma (1): Eevee
Not Voting (6): shraeye, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have less than 9 days left in the bank.
So here's what makes me really wary about lynching off wagon. All the people who were off wagon want to vote for Frisk (well except Frisk). This feels like the situation in blitz games where people settle on a 'nice' lynch that everybody finds agreeable when deadline comes around. But 'everybody' includes mafia, and if they think it's an agreeable lynch, then it's probably a mislynch. I'm pretty sure Frisk is not going to be the lynch that helps us move forward the best.
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Granted, they might've thought "there's no way Lekkit is getting lynched now over Eevee, so I'm gonna sit back" - until it was too late to switch... But odds are strong that there is indeed one off the wagon, and decent that there are two.
Here's what I think scum were thinking regarding the Eevee-lynch. But I'm no longer sold that there are for sure mafia off the wagon.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...you were one of the first on the Lekkit wagon, weren't you?
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Only person I really see caring about Robz dying is Eevee, which might mean he's the SK and Robz prevented the mafia kill since I don't see Eevee being Lekkit's teammate.
Why is this?
He only cast suspicion on you. Either you wanted him quiet or someone is purposefully throwing suspiscion your way. Usually the former is the case.
mmmm vote: axxle
robz also cast suspicion on you, Axxle.
Found the section you meant. Forgot about that exchange. I wouldn't have killed him for a small spat like that, and he hardly accused me of much just a "I think so" with no vote and no mention of it later. inb4 wifom.
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Vote Count 2.7
Captain_Frisk (4): Galzria, yuma, theorel, Axxle {L-2}
yuma (1): Eevee
Axxle (1): Cayvie
Cuzz (1): shraeye
Not Voting (4): Captain_Frisk, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have less than 9 days left in the bank.
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47 posts:
Cuzz starts out the game voting for me: his logic was based off my vote/quick unvote of Robz. I have said before that this is a weak case. Not even vote worthy. It is exactly the type of case that scum tries to start early in games. I did in MXIV, so did Cuzz (mine was a bussing one however), ash did it in MV--where I rightly called him out for it.
Cuzz then shifts his vote to Robz (now confirmed town Doc) and sheeps Frisk's vote and logic of Robz preferring to play scum. Again, really weak case. In fact, not even a case at all.
And then he is back to me. This time for a "vibe, without any real facts or evidence. Again, really really weak.
He then has a post about Lekkit, Jimmm, Robz and I; doesn't present anything new that I hadn't heard or seen before.
moves to a Lekkit vote for his vote on sub-in shraeye. at this point Lekkit had 2 votes on him with raerae and cayvie. Looks like a potential bus vote because it was for something pretty weird, but easily taken off once Lekkit unvotes shraeye.
continues to keep his vote on Lekkit; doesn't like him lurking, his 10 straight one word posts, his lack of having reads
at the end of day 1, "kinda wants to switch to Eevee" (scum getting cold feet about bussing?)
and then 3 posts day 2.
So like I said, I don't think Cuzz is the best option today because we have off-Lekkit wagon, non-bussing scum to find. But if we didn't have them and only potential bussers were around, I would pick Cuzz. I think his cases have been weak--on me especially--I think out of all the other people voting on the Lekkit wagon, Cuzz appears to have a pretty likely bus vote (on an issue that would likely go away and then the cold feet)... But I haven't necessarily looked at all the other lekkit voters, but Cuzz's stood out to me.
I'll respond to yuma and then to shraeye. It seems your major issue is that I had weak cases early on D1, which applies to almost everyone early D1 in every game. I never claimed the cases I made were airtight, they were just things I was thinking out loud, and yes occasionally paired with a vote, but again it was early in the game. I freely admitted my cases were weak, and happily switched my vote to Lekkit when I decided he was a much better lynch.
And about my vote on Lekkit, there's wine here but if you reread my interaction with him late in the day, it was genuine scumhunting on my part (and successful!)
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Thoughts.
Next, general things:
I think wagon analysis here has a slightly different feel to it from other games. Specifically, the fact that we had two wagons at L-1 simultaneously, and it really felt like the end of the day could have gone either way. So, if Eevee is town, and has a very good chance of being lynched (especially if theorel is town/telling the truth about the hammer), scum is probably just holding their breath and hoping the lynch falls in their favor, which it didn't. After the Eevee wagon built up, why would scum start bussing then? My point is that I think there's a chance that all scum were off wagon, and almost no chance that all scum were on wagon. I think Galz is almost certainly town in particular. If there is scum who voted for Lekkit, it would have to have been someone who was on Lekkit for a while from the beginning. Shraeye maybe? But I think looking off wagon is where to focus today, as many others have mentioned.
While I'm thinking of shraeye, I remember the weird time when Lekkit voted for shraeye for lurking right after replacing in, which just seemed super odd, since it was a weekend and he still needed time to reread. This probably means shraeye is more likely to be town, right?
First, you simultaneously conclude that I'm more likely to be town, and say that I'm the most suspicious person on the Lekkit lynch. Try being more consistent.
vote: Cuzz
Second, you bring up a good point, but reach entirely the opposite conclusion as I have.
I think wagon analysis here has a slightly different feel to it from other games. Specifically, the fact that we had two wagons at L-1 simultaneously, and it really felt like the end of the day could have gone either way. So, if Eevee is town, and has a very good chance of being lynched (especially if theorel is town/telling the truth about the hammer), scum is probably just holding their breath and hoping the lynch falls in their favor, which it didn't.
When I am scum, and it looks like a favorable lynch for my team is going down (assuming Eevee is town, and right now, I'm ok with that) I stay away. I don't want to be on that lynch, especially if it looks like town will tip it over the edge. So I have to calculate where my vote will be. Frankly, keeping my vote on a scumbuddy that probably won't get lynched is a great idea.
But then, surprising those smug scum, the Lekkit lynch takes off and suddenly he's at L-1. Now they can't switch off Lekkit last minute in case he actually is lynched (they'll be suspected for sure), and they definitely can't jump off Lekkit and onto Eevee (it'll look terrible if eevee flips town). So we've essentially got scum stuck on the wagon of their partner.
I reached this conclusion as follows. I was doing my mafia-homework dutifully, rereading Frisk/yuma/theorel/axxle. And I find all of them towny. Probably in this order Axxle (towniest)>Yuma>Frisk>theorel. But all of them I find much more towny than some of the people on the Lekkit lynch. Cuzz, cayvie, Jimmmmm. Jimmm was a late vote to lekkit, and actually gains towny points that way. But when I think about where I would have been as scum, I realize that I would actually be more likely to have been on the Lekkit wagon early. As were Cuzz/cayvie.
So vote on Cuzz this post looks jokey because it's right next to a pithy reason. But I'm serious about it. Doubly serious.
Vote: Cuzz
Am I missing something, or are you just voting for me here for disagreeing with you?
As for the first point, you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which I would have thought was pretty clear. I think it's possible there was no bussing, so I'm not looking on the Lekkit wagon for scum right now. I then remarked that were there to be bussing, it's possible that it was from you. But notice my lack of conviction and questioning attitude. I was just thinking out loud and brainstorming in my first post you quoted. There's nothing inconsistent at all about what I said, because I didn't actually "conclude" anything. You seem really touchy about what barely qualifies as an FoS on you.
Regarding the second point, again it just seems like you're disagreeing with me, and somehow that leads you to a vote. You have a different theory about what happened yesterday and that's fine. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. And that's fine. Discussion and debate is good.
I do find it very weird that you seem to be clearing the entire Eevee wagon. Do you really think we should definitely be lynching on wagon today?
Also your last line makes little sense. Can you give me the tldr of why you're actually voting for me? It seems like you're half joking but then you say you're not and I'm just confused.
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Also, shraeye, it'd be great if you gave reasons for your sudden townread on the whole crowd that many of us agree should be the focus of attention today (the Eevee wagon).
In terms of what I put weight on when deciding whom to lynch today:
those avoiding a scum wagon >>> shraeye's completely unsubstantiated townread
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As for the first point, you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which I would have thought was pretty clear. I think it's possible there was no bussing, so I'm not looking on the Lekkit wagon for scum right now. I then remarked that were there to be bussing, it's possible that it was from you. But notice my lack of conviction and questioning attitude. I was just thinking out loud and brainstorming in my first post you quoted. There's nothing inconsistent at all about what I said, because I didn't actually "conclude" anything. You seem really touchy about what barely qualifies as an FoS on you.
Cuzz, that is literally the definition of hedging. "I don't have a lot of conviction in this, and please everybody note my questioning attitude, but I think you should suspect shraeye as the best candidate for bussing on the Lekkit wagon...oh also, I think he's town."
Also here are the reasons for my 'out of the blue' townreads, apparently you missed them.
Still, looking through yuma's business this is the only thing that stands out to me. There are other things that really make me feel that yuma is town. But for thoroughness I'd love to know how many people think the funny business is really scummy, and how many think it's just a bit odd.
Didn't forget, just a bit overwhelmed. I'll try to get into this again.
This sounds honest to me. I don't think Axxle is a good lynch today, but I encourage him to come back and post whatever's on his mind. I'm not liking jumping to an Axxle lynch.
So here's what makes me really wary about lynching off wagon. All the people who were off wagon want to vote for Frisk (well except Frisk). This feels like the situation in blitz games where people settle on a 'nice' lynch that everybody finds agreeable when deadline comes around. But 'everybody' includes mafia, and if they think it's an agreeable lynch, then it's probably a mislynch. I'm pretty sure Frisk is not going to be the lynch that helps us move forward the best.
Theorel is the smallest townread of the Eevee wagoners, but I think things will be much better when we lynch Cuzz. I love how Cuzz reacts strongly to me voting for him by saying that I'm the one who's getting touchy. My vote on Cuzz is because of the simultaneous town/scum reads he tried to cast on me. It didn't matter that Cuzz gave these on shraeye, I'd vote over similar attitudes on anyone.
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Shraeye, I am far, far more likely to have strong convictions on my reads as scum than as town. As town, it's a never ceasing game of second guessing and being unsure. As scum that's not the case, so to portray it as such is unnatural.
Your argument is that he's hedging, thus likely scum. I disagree. If you were arguing that his waffling seems faked, forced or contrived, then maybe I would give more consideration to your case.
Unless you're calling the scumteam Cayvie/Cuzz/Lekkit right now, then there is scum off the lynch wagon, and that's going to be the best place to start looking.
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Shraeye, I am far, far more likely to have strong convictions on my reads as scum than as town. As town, it's a never ceasing game of second guessing and being unsure. As scum that's not the case, so to portray it as such is unnatural.
Your argument is that he's hedging, thus likely scum. I disagree. If you were arguing that his waffling seems faked, forced or contrived, then maybe I would give more consideration to your case.
Unless you're calling the scumteam Cayvie/Cuzz/Lekkit right now, then there is scum off the lynch wagon, and that's going to be the best place to start looking.
That's exactly where I started looking, Galz. I read each one of them, and got town vibes from them all. The only lynch there that I would be ok with is theorel, and I'm not sold on it. I'm not calling the scum team Lekkit/Cuzz/cayvie, I'm calling Lekkit/Cuzz/somebody. I'm not sure who the third is yet.
I'm ok with people changing their reads. But Cuzz did it from one paragraph to the next within the same post. That's what I'm talking about, and that's not reasonable. He's trying to cast suspicion but using a tone of voice that is 'lacking conviction and questioning' to quote Cuzz himself, and then he followed it up by saying that he thinks his suspect is likely town.
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unvote
Yeah, I've been thinking about it a bit lately, and I agree with shraeye. I was thinking along these lines: we've been lynching scum more frequently day1 as of late, but maybe that's because scum has been bussing more frequently as of late? I feel like Insomniac made a comment somewhere after Robz' bussing of Frisk day1 in the blitz game where Robz was assumed to be the towniest member of the suspects that day1 bussing just gives SO much town-cred that he'd basically be doing it every game where he rolls scum. I started thinking about it because of Galzria's recent post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5395.msg158832#msg158832), this just struck me as wrong reasoning, not necessarily false (because I had similar thoughts myself), but I think it disregards this current overarching meta of scum bussing. The fact is, that scum knew how Eevee would flip, and they knew how Lekkit would flip, they didn't want to be voting Eevee (assuming he was town).
I think Cuzz has basically played day2 here exactly like Grujah did day1 in MXI. He's never posting, never posting, someone calls him out and he has to defend himself. He's claimed narcissism, but I don't remember him playing MXII like that.
I'm still not opposed to a Frisk or Axxle lynch (still with a preference for Axxle because I think his behavior while Lekkit was getting lynched is scummier). I'm really conflicted, because I can't really decide if bussing is more likely than not. I'll pose the question to everyone else: do you feel like scum has been bussing day1 more frequently of late (since the blitz game with Robz)? Until then, I'm going to join shraeye in voting for IMO the most likely busser Vote: Cuzz.
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I'm still not opposed to a Frisk or Axxle lynch (still with a preference for Axxle because I think his behavior while Lekkit was getting lynched is scummier). I'm really conflicted, because I can't really decide if bussing is more likely than not. I'll pose the question to everyone else: do you feel like scum has been bussing day1 more frequently of late (since the blitz game with Robz)? Until then, I'm going to join shraeye in voting for IMO the most likely busser Vote: Cuzz.
I'm unhelpful here, I really don't have a feel for whether scum has been bussing day1 more frequently since then. This may, in fact, be the only completed day 1 I've played since then. Well, I bussed hardcore in Domafia.
I'm reserving judgment on Cuzz until I see his case on yuma.
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Like I said before, Cuzz would be my preferred lynch if off-Lekkit players didn't exist. But they do... Do people really think that town has a better opportunity to find scum on the Lekkit wagon?
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Like I said before, Cuzz would be my preferred lynch if off-Lekkit players didn't exist. But they do... Do people really think that town has a better opportunity to find scum on the Lekkit wagon?
If the choice was between "lynch a randomly chosen off-wagon player" and "lynch a randomly chosen on-wagon player", I'd choose the former.
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The fact that the night kill was off wagon indicates to me that busing is slightly more likely, if the NK was by mafia.
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I feel like bussing in general has increased, in recent games as scum I have voted for teammates Day 1... but didn't want the lynch to go through.
So I guess there are a few types of bussing...
Voting for your scum mate early to gain town cred or gain each other town cred if one of you dies later, but not pushing the lynch to completion.
Voting for you scum mate late because the wagon is obviously going somewhere and it isn't about to stop, so might as well join on and try to gain some cred.
Voting for your scum mate whenever, and pushing hard for it like you would a normal case as town.
The last option is the most risky for scum Day 1 because it means you are going to be at a severe disadvantage. I dont' think it is the smartest play and that I why I doubt town did it here. Possible, but I doubt it.
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Like I said before, Cuzz would be my preferred lynch if off-Lekkit players didn't exist. But they do... Do people really think that town has a better opportunity to find scum on the Lekkit wagon?
If the choice was between "lynch a randomly chosen off-wagon player" and "lynch a randomly chosen on-wagon player", I'd choose the former.
I agree with this sentiment if it comes to literally picking people randomly. But as long as I have reads to listen to, I'm going to do use them to direct my vote. Looking for scum off-wagon seemed the best choice, so I started today off by doing that. I didn't find anyone I was comfortable voting for.
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Like I said before, Cuzz would be my preferred lynch if off-Lekkit players didn't exist. But they do... Do people really think that town has a better opportunity to find scum on the Lekkit wagon?
If the choice was between "lynch a randomly chosen off-wagon player" and "lynch a randomly chosen on-wagon player", I'd choose the former.
I agree with this sentiment if it comes to literally picking people randomly. But as long as I have reads to listen to, I'm going to do use them to direct my vote. Looking for scum off-wagon seemed the best choice, so I started today off by doing that. I didn't find anyone I was comfortable voting for.
yeah, sorry, i'm in agreement with you here. i was trying to imply this.
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yeah, sorry, i'm in agreement with you here. i was trying to imply this.
Oh, I see. Misunderstood, sorry.
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well I don't know what to do...
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Vote Count 2.9
Captain_Frisk (3): Galzria, yuma, Axxle
yuma (1): Eevee
Axxle (1): Cayvie
Cuzz (2): shraeye, theorel
Not Voting (4): Captain_Frisk, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have less than 9 days left in the bank.
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Anybody else find posts #942 and #943 interesting? I still don't know how I feel about the Cuzz thing that's recently come up but I do find these two posts very interesting. Shraeye states in #942 that he would be comfortable with a theorel lynch and theorel responds to Shraeye in #943 with complete agreement of Shraeye's vote on Cuzz. Interesting or am I reading into it too much?
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Anybody else find posts #942 and #943 interesting? I still don't know how I feel about the Cuzz thing that's recently come up but I do find these two posts very interesting. Shraeye states in #942 that he would be comfortable with a theorel lynch and theorel responds to Shraeye in #943 with complete agreement of Shraeye's vote on Cuzz. Interesting or am I reading into it too much?
I think perhaps too much into it.... I remember theorel stating earlier that Cuzz was his biggest on-Lekkit scum read
Here I found it, but not the link:
Actually, that ended up being an unordered mess...but yes, I think shraeye is the towniest Lekkit-voter.
I think my ranking (towniest to least townie) is something like: (omitting IC)
shraeye>cayvie>Eevee>Galzria>Jimmmmm>Cuzz
Although that's not a hard and fast ordering. cayvie-Galzria is difficult to really assign an ordering to. Also, my opinion may change as I look back over day1 more and as things unfold today.
So I don't think it is too much of a stretch for theorel to semi-sheep a strong town read and vote for a strong scum read.
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Anybody else find posts #942 and #943 interesting? I still don't know how I feel about the Cuzz thing that's recently come up but I do find these two posts very interesting. Shraeye states in #942 that he would be comfortable with a theorel lynch and theorel responds to Shraeye in #943 with complete agreement of Shraeye's vote on Cuzz. Interesting or am I reading into it too much?
I think perhaps too much into it.... I remember theorel stating earlier that Cuzz was his biggest on-Lekkit scum read
Here I found it, but not the link:
Actually, that ended up being an unordered mess...but yes, I think shraeye is the towniest Lekkit-voter.
I think my ranking (towniest to least townie) is something like: (omitting IC)
shraeye>cayvie>Eevee>Galzria>Jimmmmm>Cuzz
Although that's not a hard and fast ordering. cayvie-Galzria is difficult to really assign an ordering to. Also, my opinion may change as I look back over day1 more and as things unfold today.
So I don't think it is too much of a stretch for theorel to semi-sheep a strong town read and vote for a strong scum read.
Ah bummer, I thought I was onto something there. Hmmmm, ok, looking at this Cuzz guy again.
REMINDER: Soft-deadline Thursday at 8pm. Still trying to decide how to enforce that. Thinking about voting for anybody I see as trying to slow down the game. Don't make me make stupid decisions like that, kids.
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Anybody else find posts #942 and #943 interesting? I still don't know how I feel about the Cuzz thing that's recently come up but I do find these two posts very interesting. Shraeye states in #942 that he would be comfortable with a theorel lynch and theorel responds to Shraeye in #943 with complete agreement of Shraeye's vote on Cuzz. Interesting or am I reading into it too much?
I think perhaps too much into it.... I remember theorel stating earlier that Cuzz was his biggest on-Lekkit scum read
Here I found it, but not the link:
Actually, that ended up being an unordered mess...but yes, I think shraeye is the towniest Lekkit-voter.
I think my ranking (towniest to least townie) is something like: (omitting IC)
shraeye>cayvie>Eevee>Galzria>Jimmmmm>Cuzz
Although that's not a hard and fast ordering. cayvie-Galzria is difficult to really assign an ordering to. Also, my opinion may change as I look back over day1 more and as things unfold today.
So I don't think it is too much of a stretch for theorel to semi-sheep a strong town read and vote for a strong scum read.
Ah bummer, I thought I was onto something there. Hmmmm, ok, looking at this Cuzz guy again.
REMINDER: Soft-deadline Thursday at 8pm. Still trying to decide how to enforce that. Thinking about voting for anybody I see as trying to slow down the game. Don't make me make stupid decisions like that, kids.
there appears to be a chance that Frisk won't be in the game anymore... so we may be a player short if we don't get a replacement soonish... I don't know if that will or should factor into the equation, but it might end up doing so regardless.
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there appears to be a chance that Frisk won't be in the game anymore... so we may be a player short if we don't get a replacement soonish... I don't know if that will or should factor into the equation, but it might end up doing so regardless.
We need to move forward and I don't believe Frisk (or his replacement) should be penalized for that. I will focus on somebody currently active in the game who doesn't appear to be moving it forward. Let's just hope it doesn't come to that.
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Jimmmmm, you haven't been around since the 16th. Come on, dude. Weigh in on some stuff.
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I've PM'ed Frisk to ask if he's departed. I will seek a replacement if needed. At this point, he's still in the game, as far as the game is concerned.
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Jimmmmm, you haven't been around since the 16th. Come on, dude. Weigh in on some stuff.
hadn't noticed that, but it is true... is the worthy of a vote? No, but I will unvote no one wants to come into a game with 4 votes on them already...
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Galz, you still feeling good about that Frisk lynch?
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Galz, you still feeling good about that Frisk lynch?
I believe his actions to date have been consistent with scum!CF, yes.
Why should a potential change of face change my feelings on the actions taken to date by that player?
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Galz, you still feeling good about that Frisk lynch?
I believe his actions to date have been consistent with scum!CF, yes.
Why should a potential change of face change my feelings on the actions taken to date by that player?
It shouldn't. I was just asking because you haven't had a ton to say recently. Just checking in, buddy!
Buuuuutttt.....since you're here.....what do you think about the recently chitter chatter about Cuzz?
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Shraeye, I am far, far more likely to have strong convictions on my reads as scum than as town. As town, it's a never ceasing game of second guessing and being unsure. As scum that's not the case, so to portray it as such is unnatural.
Your argument is that he's hedging, thus likely scum. I disagree. If you were arguing that his waffling seems faked, forced or contrived, then maybe I would give more consideration to your case.
Unless you're calling the scumteam Cayvie/Cuzz/Lekkit right now, then there is scum off the lynch wagon, and that's going to be the best place to start looking.
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In essence, I don't find him particularly scummy, and his "hedginess" that Shraeye is making a case out of is so very much more often found in town who are trying to define their own reads to themselves.
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In essence, I don't find him particularly scummy, and his "hedginess" that Shraeye is making a case out of is so very much more often found in town who are trying to define their own reads to themselves.
I'm a big girl and read that the first time. Thanks for dumbing it down for me though.
Do you have thoughts on anything anybody else has said on Cuzz? I know I'm being a bit of a pot here, not having given my own thoughts on Cuzz yet (or yuma for that matter as he was next on my list...) but you've had interesting things to say this game and I'm very much looking forward to reading more of them.
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Robz888 has replaced Captain_Frisk.
He has been instructed that he may NOT discuss anything related to his time as Rupert Giles. So don't ask.
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In essence, I don't find him particularly scummy, and his "hedginess" that Shraeye is making a case out of is so very much more often found in town who are trying to define their own reads to themselves.
I'm a big girl and read that the first time. Thanks for dumbing it down for me though.
Do you have thoughts on anything anybody else has said on Cuzz? I know I'm being a bit of a pot here, not having given my own thoughts on Cuzz yet (or yuma for that matter as he was next on my list...) but you've had interesting things to say this game and I'm very much looking forward to reading more of them.
Actually, it would appear you read it the second time, or I wouldn't have had to repost it.
As far as other people's comments regarding Cuzz, they seem to be largely a rehash of the same ideas that Shraeye has posted. What's more, I see many of them coming from the same people that are on Frisk (or were) right now. Which makes me less concerned that Frisk is town, and more concerned that we're playing with a bunch of sheep. They should stop looking at cases made and going "well that looks good", and start making cases of their own.
As to the point that "scum like to bus now" - for those who went through it, how well did that work for Robz/Frisk in Blitz? Oh yeah, they got creamed. Going to argue faulty setup? How about Me/SFS/Robz in the current setup of blitz? Didn't work out so well for us either, did it? How about M-XI, with Grujah? Nope, ended badly there too.
I do NOT think scum would decide early to bus for lots of town cred, based on, if nothing else, how spectacularly poorly it's worked for them in the past. Could they have gotten their hand caught in the cookie jar here with Lekkit's wagon exploding? Sure. And if that is the case I suspect Shraeye to be scum more than Cuzz/Cayvie. Her insistence on lynching Lekkit didn't grow to be a full on march until both Lekkit and Eevee were L-1, at which point he scum!Shraeye knew he couldn't hammer Eevee, so made the best of it by either getting scum!Lekkit lynched, or getting a "damnit I told you all" if Eevee got lynched.
But you don't see me hammering down Shraeye's door, do you? I still think the best place to find scum is off the Lekkit lynch, and that's where I'm at.
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Hi guys. I don't have time to catch up on this immediately--nor even really post anything. I know there's a clocking running though, gar I will try to re-read tonight.
I've never actually replaced someone before, so bear with me.
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Hi guys. I don't have time to catch up on this immediately--nor even really post anything. I know there's a clocking running though, gar I will try to re-read tonight.
I've never actually replaced someone before, so bear with me.
Obvscum. You could make it easy on yourself and just fess up. Then you can skip the reread.
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Hi guys. I don't have time to catch up on this immediately--nor even really post anything. I know there's a clocking running though, gar I will try to re-read tonight.
I've never actually replaced someone before, so bear with me.
Obvscum. You could make it easy on yourself and just fess up. Then you can skip the reread.
Didn't know I was replacing in with a who against me. This should be fun. Whatever happens, you guys better win. This game counts double for my record now!!!
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Who should be wagon there, on phone
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Hi guys. I don't have time to catch up on this immediately--nor even really post anything. I know there's a clocking running though, gar I will try to re-read tonight.
I've never actually replaced someone before, so bear with me.
Obvscum. You could make it easy on yourself and just fess up. Then you can skip the reread.
Didn't know I was replacing in with a who against me. This should be fun. Whatever happens, you guys better win. This game counts double for my record now!!!
Are you denying that you have a different alignment than that chump Robz888(1) had?
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Hi guys. I don't have time to catch up on this immediately--nor even really post anything. I know there's a clocking running though, gar I will try to re-read tonight.
I've never actually replaced someone before, so bear with me.
Obvscum. You could make it easy on yourself and just fess up. Then you can skip the reread.
Didn't know I was replacing in with a who against me. This should be fun. Whatever happens, you guys better win. This game counts double for my record now!!!
I was town in this game initially right? Yeah I was doctor pr like always of course.
Are you denying that you have a different alignment than that chump Robz888(1) had?
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Gah I can't phone post. And you are trolling me, I get it now
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Gah I can't phone post. And you are trolling me, I get it now
Who, me? 8)
Welcome back, scum.
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Robz: give me 2 reasons why I shouldn't vote for you. If they are somewhat good, I won't and will vote elsewhere. If they aren't expect my vote to go back onto you sometime tomorrow.
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There are 11 people in this game? I feel like I am talking to myself or raerae. Soft deadline is tomorrow right? I really hope there is fair amount of text by the time I wake up tomorrow morning.
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There are 11 people in this game? I feel like I am talking to myself or raerae. Soft deadline is tomorrow right? I really hope there is fair amount of text by the time I wake up tomorrow morning.
I've been here consistently too you know!
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Vote Count 2.10
Captain_Frisk (2): Galzria, Axxle
yuma (1): Eevee
Axxle (1): Cayvie
Cuzz (2): shraeye, theorel
Not Voting (5): Captain_Frisk, Cuzz, Jimmmmm, raerae, yuma
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have 5 days, 12.5 hours of bankable time remaining.
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Has anybody figured out what Jimmmmm is up to?
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No, but I'm willing to vote for him. I've gotten nothing but weird vibes from him. That plus lack of posts paints a picture of a person I am happy lynching.
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Jimmm is lurky in other games too, but obviously doesn't make him any townier here. I find myself nodding in agreement with everything Galzria posts and with almost everything shraeye posts. I'm exhausted right now, and been putting off even opening this thread because I just feel guilty for not using my almostobvtown-status better. I think the case against yuma is good, and really like that lynch. Also found Frisk scummy, but would rather wait and see what Robz does with the role. Theorel I have hard time finding as scummy because of the way he posts, but here his actions reek of scum and I might actually like that lynch even better than the yuma lynch. If I was force to off-wagon, I would vote for Cuzz but I think on-wagon is a way better bet.
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I would be very against a Jimmmmm lynch today. He's not a town read, but he gave legs to the Lekkit lynch, taking him to L-1 instead of doing something else, nothing at all, or hammering Eevee instead.
That said, Jimmmm, get your rear in here and post.
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Robz, do you think you can be ready by 8 tomorrow? Not trying to put pressure on you, just wondering what you're thinking time-wise.
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Hey, sorry.
My problem is, I'm in too many games. I just don't have the focus to be in 3 Mafia games at once. I'm going to try to catch up with everything and start contributing.
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Having said that, this has actually been a really interesting game, so I should be having an easier time keeping up.
One thing though, Frisk needs to be either lynched, subbed or modkilled.
Vote: Captain_Frisk until one of the other things happens.
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Having said that, this has actually been a really interesting game, so I should be having an easier time keeping up.
One thing though, Frisk needs to be either lynched, subbed or modkilled.
Vote: Captain_Frisk until one of the other things happens.
I'm pretty sure he's been subbed. Sooo, one of those things already happened.
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Oh, sorry. Unvote.
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Seriously, what? Robz is back from the dead? I have to say, I seriously disagree with that choice.
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Seriously, what? Robz is back from the dead? I have to say, I seriously disagree with that choice.
why?
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I guess I just feel like in a non-Bastard game someone who's already been killed once shouldn't be able to magically re-appear. It just messes with everyone.
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I guess I just feel like in a non-Bastard game someone who's already been killed once shouldn't be able to magically re-appear. It just messes with everyone.
I think Robz is seasoned enough to handle it like a pro. Wouldn't have been the best choice if it was a newer player but he's been around the block or time or two so it shouldn't be an issue.
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I guess I just feel like in a non-Bastard game someone who's already been killed once shouldn't be able to magically re-appear. It just messes with everyone.
It is pretty standard procedure around these parts. O jumped into MXI already dead; Axxle in MVI; Eevee in MXVI. Subbing in is always a pain, better to do it with someone that already kinda knows what is going on in the game than someone that has to read 900 posts to understand.
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I am actually in too many games right now. Sorry, I was led to believe ash didn't have many other choices. I will hopefully catchup by 8:00 tonight. I'm actually going to be away from the forums for the next few hours.
Oh, like the one thing I know for sure, though: Don't kill Jimm. Him and Galz are obvtowns from the Lekkit vote.
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Ok, finally getting around to reread of yuma:
Robz, Cuzz and Frisk:
This game is awfully similar to MXII which didn't go very well for town. I viewed it from a mod's point of view. But what do you think went so wrong in that game. My two take aways from it were, lynch scummy lurkers and scum bussing can be very beneficial. But what do you think down did or didn't do that was detrimental to town--and that we shouldn't do in this game?
At least no one claimed VT in the pre-game.
First real post is this question about XII. Could be confirmation bias, but on reread this seems kind of like an empty way to seem pro town and say something substantial. Like, sure this game has a similar setup to XII, but did yuma honestly think that analyzing XII is really so much better than other games?
Then yuma does his vote for Robz thing, unvotes, I find this a bit odd and vote for yuma, and he votes me back. We've been over this. It was a weak case on my part, but it was RVS and I voted for someone I thought was behaving oddly. I'm not the first townie who's ever done done that. But yuma's defensive reaction and OMGUS vote seemed a bit excessive for this stage of the game (this is where yuma will argue with my characterization of his vote as OMGUS).
Yuma then votes Eevee for low post count, and pushes a soft-deadline idea. Being in favor of a soft-deadline is a null-tell especially from yuma. He championed that effort in XI as town, so it could be an easy way for him to try to replicate his recent town-behavior.
Then a post I mentioned before, but will note again:
awesome... now back to hunting those elusive scummies.
This just seems straight up fake to me. And I've seen yuma come off as pretty fake as scum before. Compare this quote from XIV:
I can't believe you guys lynched like that... Not necessarily that you lynched Archetype, but that you rushed into it so much! How about next time we let a little bit more discussion happen before the hammer drops.
I dunno, I sense a similar tone here. You can decide for yourself.
Been a bit busy at work and playing the DS champs.
I've only got one slight town read beside raerae, and that's theorel. He came out during RVS and pretty much ended it. However most of his posts seems to be theory oriented and not much analysis, although there isn't that much to analyze yet. Robz is hard to read as always and I could see his behaviour be either town or scum.
I don't really think friday is a very good deadline, since it's only two days away, and I don't think we're moving very much forward. It could change that of course.
what do you think of the mini-wagon that formed on you? and of the people on it?
Yuma then prods Lekkit to talk about his wagon which seems kinda like "hey buddy, you need to stop lurking, so here's an idea for stuff you could talk about"
1 – Robz888 - I argued with him about the vig stuff, but I think basically we were saying the same thing, but I was suggesting that a vig shouldn't just listen to him--or anyone else for that matter--his "buddying" as someone called is exactly the advice he gave to someone, somewhere (cryptic I know) who was asking for help on how to not be so constantly lynched as a townie. Basically he said that you should agree with the case and admit that it has relevance... So either he is scum following his own advice or town following his own advice. Null read for now
2 – Jimmmmm - new player, not a lot to go off but liking the out of the box thinking he has shown. But could be scum putting out ideas to distract town. Appears to be more active and thoughtful than the game I saw him in blitz, slightly scummy read thus far
3 - cayvie - probably the most difficult person in all of FDS mafia for me to read. Her vote on eevee for "doc reasons" resonated as town to me regardless of eevee's intentions.
4 - Eevee - scummy read so far, which is kinda rare for me as I tend to not view Eevee very scummy. Wish I would have paid more attention to RMM3 to see eevee as scum recently.
5 - Captain_Frisk - VLA so null
6 - Abra655 - if still in the game probably a null read as not much to go off
7 - Lekkit - is posting, that is good. null read still though
8 - Cuzz - I think he had tried to push a weak case on me and then continued to try to push a weak case. slight scummy read coming from here
9 - theorel - town read, very much the same theorel I remember from MVIII
10 - Galzria - was quickly put on the defensive once he was in the game, said he was going to do a reread. Did that happen galz. town readish
11 - yuma - town
12 - Axxle - not sure about his case on Galz. Axxle could go either way on this; Axxle likes putting pressure on people to get a reaction and then gauge their reactions according and I don't fault him for that. But I didn't really like his "one of Robz or Galz is likely scum approach." So slight scum read here.
13 – raerae* - innocent child,
This quote will be helpful for reference. Gives a "null read" on Lekkit, and claims that Lekkit "is posting." From my perspective, Lekkit was still not really saying much at this juncture, and I was starting to get a scum read on him by then. In fact, all Lekkit had really said so far was that he had nothing to add to the vig discussion, that he had a townread on theorel and a nullread on Robz, and that he was against the deadline.
Lurking, say-nothing-of-substance Lekkit was town!Lekkit in M-VIII.
I feel like I'm becoming overly fond of using meta arguments, though. Still, he's like super consistent here.
although you think he would have learned from that experience though and would post more as town to prevent getting lynched?
Another yuma-Lekkit interaction post. Here yuma puts a bit more suspicion on Lekkit by saying if Lekkit were town, you'd think he would be posting more. But an argument against yuma's point is that you'd think if Lekkit were scum. he'd be doing the same thing since scum would much rather not get lynched than town.
Anyway, Lekkit did lurk, and was scum so I'm not sure there's too much to analyze here.
I don't feel awesome about the Lekkit lynch (when I voted, it definitely wasn't meant to be a vote that would contribute to the day ending without additional information). I have nothing against the Lekkit lynch, I just don't have a read strong enough to want to be a part of it. Unvote Friday is awfully soon. Idk, I'd like to do some rereading and analysis tonight and park my vote somewhere based on the results, but just in case I don't get to it, I'll Vote: cayvie. It's likely there are scum on the wagon if Lekkit is town, and Jimmm seems townier than cayvie.
I would suggest that if there were scum on the Lekkit wagon it would be you. I agree with Axxle that your voting is more tactical as are your posts... I will keep my vote on you and urge people to reread you specifically.
Interesting post. At this juncture, the Lekkit wagon consisted of raerae and cayvie (Eevee and Jimmmmmm unvoted just before). Actually this post might say more about Eevee than yuma, since at the time Eevee's assumption that Lekkit was town followed by suspicion of his wagon was weird. Knowing Lekkit was scum, there's too much WIFOM here for me to analyze if this makes Eevee seem more likely town than scum.
I do however think this post makes it less likely that yuma and Eevee are both scum. Yuma is a good busser, but I think his style of bussing is more of the "point out partners' scummy behavior to others" type than the "call partners out on scummy behavior directly" type.
Cuzz: What are you thoughts on Eevee? Scumread, townread? Why?
Yuma then asks me specifically about Eevee. Not sure why me specifically, but maybe because he knows I suspect him and wants to steer my suspicions elsewhere.
Ah ok next two posts are really key (emphasis added):
So how I feel about Robz:
Right now I don't know about Robz or his meta. This is because I believe he is trying to change it. I think someone quoted the QT in which he talked to ?TheMunch about this. I don't remember, but the fact of the matter is that Robz dies early in almost every game he plays in of late. It isn't a matter of feeling bad for him (he is a big boy and can take it, and if he dies there are at least three other games he can play in at any given moment since he is in all of them). But I am interested in winning this game. For that reason I don't think Robz to be the best day 1 lynch. Especially if his case is meta based, because it seems to me that he is deliberately trying to change it--now the question for us is this: Is he trying to change it as scum or is he trying to change it as town.... That is a hard question to answer now. And one that will be greatly aided by flips and any night kills that occur (obviously this is true with everyone).
As for Robz's actual behavior. It is Day 1 so not that scummy. No one has really been that scummy. But I strongly, strongly prefer a lurker lynch over Robz. I am not saying I won't vote for him. If the town is divided in half with votes on Robz and refusing to vote Robz, I would be willing to vote him to end the day. But it wouldn't be my favorite.
As for Robz's post:
early we disagreed not so much on content of vig talk, but more in how it was said.
Robz has given cases on theorel and eevee. Theorel had more to do with vig situation and I agree with the eevee case.
So to summarize, Robz isn't my ideal lynch candidate for today due to his self changing meta (someone is sure to ask, well if everyone did this and we gave them a pass where would we be? The answer to that: not everyone is doing this, so it doesn't apply. Robz is doing it, others aren't, let's lynch them instead and then analyze Robz when we can understand his interactions with other players later and vote someone today who we can have greater confidence in reading today to have a higher % of hitting scum). I would vote for him, but only to end the day if it was going long.
I prefer an Eevee lynch. Or a scummy lurker lynch.
post count: (nothing taken away for pregame stuff:
1 – Robz888: 54
2 – Jimmmmm: 42
3 - cayvie: 33
4 - Eevee: 27
5 - Captain_Frisk: 34
6 - Abra655*>>> shraeye 5+9
7 - Lekkit: 13
8 - Cuzz: 18
9 - theorel: 23
10 - Watno >>> Galzria: 5+28
11 - yuma: 42
12 - Axxle: 57
13 – raerae-- who cares...
So from this I prefer the lynch of eevee. I have reread him and know what he has done this game pretty well. The others I haven't reread, so this is more based of memory.
cayvie, Cuzz are the first two that come to mind. Both the subins have substantially increased their posts since subbing in and I hate to hold them accountable for their predecessors. Lekkit rings same Lekkit as MVIII and I tried to lynch him (twice) and that turned out to be a disaster, so avoiding that again. Theorel has been the most substance per post and has been very town.
So yeah, cayvie and cuzz I could be ok with. But I am staying on Eevee.
Lekkit was the absolute epitome of scummy lurking D1, and yuma says he'd be ok with lynching someone like that. He then even does a post count to highlight who the scummy lurkers are, and fails to even cast an FoS on Lekkit, assuming that lurking Lekkit is town Lekkit (which if you recall, was a point Robz made earlier that yuma took issue with at the time). He then was not around for the end of day craziness, but of course I don't fault him for that. Would have been interesting to see how he would have behaved during all that though.
I now feel my early game suspicions of yuma were justified, and though my reasons for them were not fleshed out at the time, there's now enough material involving yuma's interactions with and comments about Lekkit that warrant a vote.
Vote: yuma
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Long case there Cuzz:
Point 1: I don't really do RVS and I tend to ask those sort of questions to get us out of it. I asked a similar one in MVIII--which ended up being pretty awful because it dealt with theory talk that aided scum--but yes I do think it was a useful way to get people talking about something other than jokes.
Point 2: You are taking that out of context. The previous posts of mine were discussing with Axxle the merits of having a soft deadline. He didn't want to discuss it because he felt it I find discussion of soft deadlines tend to take up more time than the soft deadlines save.
as such, once I was done discussing the soft deadline, I was back to hunting scum.
Point 3: Urging someone to talk is scummy? Ok. I guess I have been really scummy today because I have been urging people to talk all day.
Point 4: Cuzz, you have seen me play scum. You know I buss. You know I buss my scummates hard. You really think I would have left a completely null-tell on Lekkit? I started a much much weaker on you as a scummate in MXIV.
Point 5: I wasn't trying to put Lekkit in a scummy light, that was more a reflection on Lekkit himself regardless of his alignment. It was another "you wanted to play right? then say something" post.
Point 6: Here you even admit I am a good busser. If I were scum, would I have bussed Lekkit? I won't answer that question, but will leave it to you to answer.
Point 7: Your bold point is key here... I say that I prefer a scummy lurker lynch. Not a lurker lynch. I have never been a proponent of LALL. I prefer to lynch scum. Sometimes lynching lurkers ends up in lynching scum, but not often enough to just do it blindly. At that juncture Lekkit was lurking, but I did not view it as scummy lurking; Lekkit fit the mold up to that point of the same Lekkit from MVIII. Other lurkers did not, so they were more scummy.
Point 8: During all the craziness his scumminess did come out. Like I said, I was surprised he flipped scum. I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had been online during that. Honestly, I probably would have stayed on Eevee, but I really don't know and can't say for sure with hindsight clouding my opinions.
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(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/buss)
hee hee
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(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/buss)
hee hee
:-*
Ha!
Seriously though, contribute more. I don't know why I find it impossible to suspect you in Mafia games, but man, I look back and you've offered.... So. Very. Little. And it's not scummy! But it sure as heck isn't townie either.
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Cuzz's case looks... not great to me.
While I do agree that the "hunting those elusive scummies" quote reads a little stilted, I don't think it sounds anything like the other yuma line that Cuzz fished out.
But the rest of it, it mostly reads to me that yuma was just trying to get people talking. I don't think asking people questions in this game ever is a method of deflecting attention from yourself. To be honest, I think it's very difficult to post anything that deflects attention from yourself; the act of making a post attracts attention in itself.
It also reads like a collection of things yuma said, that, individually, aren't really evidence against him, and then they're followed up with "I now feel my early game suspicions of yuma were justified, and though my reasons for them were not fleshed out at the time, there's now enough material involving yuma's interactions with and comments about Lekkit that warrant a vote."
It's like he's turning in an essay, and hoping the teacher will only read the introduction and conclusion without realizing that the supporting evidence doesn't actually support anything.
vote: cuzz
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Cuzz's case looks... not great to me.
While I do agree that the "hunting those elusive scummies" quote reads a little stilted, I don't think it sounds anything like the other yuma line that Cuzz fished out.
But the rest of it, it mostly reads to me that yuma was just trying to get people talking. I don't think asking people questions in this game ever is a method of deflecting attention from yourself. To be honest, I think it's very difficult to post anything that deflects attention from yourself; the act of making a post attracts attention in itself.
It also reads like a collection of things yuma said, that, individually, aren't really evidence against him, and then they're followed up with "I now feel my early game suspicions of yuma were justified, and though my reasons for them were not fleshed out at the time, there's now enough material involving yuma's interactions with and comments about Lekkit that warrant a vote."
It's like he's turning in an essay, and hoping the teacher will only read the introduction and conclusion without realizing that the supporting evidence doesn't actually support anything.
vote: cuzz
I think you and yuma have missed the point of what I was doing.
Notice my post began describing it as a "reread" and not a "case." It was only intended to be a summary of yuma's behavior this game. This can't ever be proven of course, but I had not decided whether I was going to vote for yuma until I was done.
I'm getting the sense that you guys think I'm trying to say "Here are my many pieces of evidence that yuma is scum," and you are (not unjustifiably) unconvinced, but that's not what I was trying to do at all. I was just trying to highlight his most important posts.
Not everything I listed even constitutes evidence, but two points led me to vote for him: Nothing I saw in my reread gave me any kind of townread, and his insistence that Lekkit was not "scummy" lurking/refusal to vote for Lekkit.
But really, this is like the third time I've been suspected in this game for something like "Cuzz made a bad point and I disagree." I don't have the luxury of knowing anyone else's alignment, so I'm just trying to get my thoughts out there.
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When you add a vote onto the end of a reread it becomes a case. You might not have presented it as such, but it was a case. I responded to it, pointing out areas where you were incorrect. Other areas have merit, but not much to be honest. I agree with cayvie's assessment of it. If you are scum, you are trying to continue a case on me--potentially to take pressure off yourself and a scum mate, Frisk perhaps? I don't now--or you are town with a bad case of confirmation bias.
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I am also wondering what Eevee thinks of Cuzz's case on me as they are now both voting for me.
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Part of the issue is that, as I've alluded to before, yuma is quite good at this game and thus I feel the standards for what constitutes evidence against him are different from other people. When yuma is scum, he acts rather townie. When he's town, he acts super-townie. This idea is motivating much of what I've said about him so far. Frankly, it's mostly just that the vibe I'm getting from him is more the former than the latter. Maybe I'm just giving him too much credit, but there's a reason yuma is up for a "best scum player" award.
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I am also wondering what Eevee thinks of Cuzz's case on me as they are now both voting for me.
I think it's reasonable. it's slightly problematic cuzz is scummy to me too, but oh well, it's the facts that make me agree with him, not his opinions. i would be suspecting him more if you flipped town though.
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I am also wondering what Eevee thinks of Cuzz's case on me as they are now both voting for me.
I think it's reasonable. it's slightly problematic cuzz is scummy to me too, but oh well, it's the facts that make me agree with him, not his opinions. i would be suspecting him more if you flipped town though.
Eevee! Which parts did you like? Which parts did you not like? Why am I scummy to you also? Are you yuma's scumbuddy?
And yeah, I think everyone would be suspecting me more if yuma flipped town. I'd have to doublecheck my PM just to make sure.
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I am also wondering what Eevee thinks of Cuzz's case on me as they are now both voting for me.
I think it's reasonable. it's slightly problematic cuzz is scummy to me too, but oh well, it's the facts that make me agree with him, not his opinions. i would be suspecting him more if you flipped town though.
Eevee! Which parts did you like? Which parts did you not like? Why am I scummy to you also? Are you yuma's scumbuddy?
And yeah, I think everyone would be suspecting me more if yuma flipped town. I'd have to doublecheck my PM just to make sure.
well in that case vote: cuzz
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I am also wondering what Eevee thinks of Cuzz's case on me as they are now both voting for me.
I think it's reasonable. it's slightly problematic cuzz is scummy to me too, but oh well, it's the facts that make me agree with him, not his opinions. i would be suspecting him more if you flipped town though.
Eevee! Which parts did you like? Which parts did you not like? Why am I scummy to you also? Are you yuma's scumbuddy?
And yeah, I think everyone would be suspecting me more if yuma flipped town. I'd have to doublecheck my PM just to make sure.
well in that case vote: cuzz
Really, dude? Obvious joking is obvious.
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It had more to do with the "if yuma flips town I'll be more suspicious" than the checking the PM. I am town, so my suspicion of you did go up.
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Basically yuma's interactions with Lekkit paint him in a very bad light. Calling out the scummy lurkers but thinking Lekkit's lurking was towny is just WEIRD now that we now Lekkit was scum and yuma was on my wagon. Nothing of the case felt forced or contrived to me, it looks like you went to do a reread and found enough stuff to warrant your vote, just like you said.
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Vote Count 2.11
Captain_Frisk (2): Galzria, Axxle
yuma (2): Eevee, Cuzz
Cuzz (4): shraeye, theorel, Cayvie, yuma {L-2}
Not Voting (3): Robz888, Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have ~5 days of bankable time remaining.
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I totally forgot theorel was voting for me too. Went back and read his case, and I guess he really just thinks I was bussing Lekkit yesterday?
I still don't really get this. I called Lekkit out a number of times D1 and thought I pushed for his lynch pretty hard. I did almost consider switching to Eevee late in the day, but that was because Eevee was starting to look very scummy to me, not because Lekkit was looking any less scummy (and of course, it was not because I had been bussing because I'm not scum). I am of course glad I did not do so.
theorel also mentions the mild lurking D2. I will refer you guys to the following:
Next few days are very busy; won't be able to post much at all. By the end of the week I'll have all the time in the world for mafia though.
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
remind me why you are supposedly an IC again?
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
remind me why you are supposedly an IC again?
What's your problem with his vote? I agree with Eevee here honestly.
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
remind me why you are supposedly an IC again?
What's your problem with his vote? I agree with Eevee here honestly.
well it kinda came out of the blue. I have had a town read on theorel myself. But mostly I just couldn't remember why Eevee was such an Innocent Child and wanted a clarification.
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
remind me why you are supposedly an IC again?
What does this even mean?
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Still reading through (I know, I know). I'm kind of liking the Cuzz lynch since he seems to be really critical of Eevee yet keeps his vote on lekkit. Seems to be pushing for someone other than him to switch their vote.
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Still reading through (I know, I know). I'm kind of liking the Cuzz lynch since he seems to be really critical of Eevee yet keeps his vote on lekkit. Seems to be pushing for someone other than him to switch their vote.
But I still prefer the CF lynch because he was more forceful in trying to stop the lekkit lynch in addition to looking like he might switch his vote throughout the day but never actually did.
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Still reading through (I know, I know). I'm kind of liking the Cuzz lynch since he seems to be really critical of Eevee yet keeps his vote on lekkit. Seems to be pushing for someone other than him to switch their vote.
I found both of them very scummy at the time. I'm glad I stayed on Lekkit and lynched scum.
I have no clue what you're referring to in your last sentence. Quotes would be nice.
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This whole exchange in particular:
Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
I see where he's coming from here. Nobody on his wagon is going to 100% believe him if he just comes out and says "I'm town." That's a crap argument anyway. That seemed more like a "here's what you'll get if you keep me around depending on what side of the fence you think I'm on" thing.
When I'm town I actually have a hard time imagining the game from the perspective in which I might be scum.
And this makes it seem like you think they're both town at a critical point:
So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
Depends on the person, but honestly neither Eevee nor Lekkit are giving me any reason to believe they are town right now.
I have never wanted to edit a post more than right now.....
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How is theorel not even voted? If it was anyone with a less analytical approach and shorter posts, there'd be a wagon. I sort of feel he is trying to make us forget about him by being super uncontroversial today.
Vote: theorel
remind me why you are supposedly an IC again?
Well, because my role pm says so? Also because I was the other wagon yesterday, you really think all scum did yesterday was to vote for one of their own? At the deadline there was literally half the town voting for me and half the town voting for Lekkit with theorel not voting and announcing he'll hammer me soon. You think it's likely scum put themselves in that position?
Fwiw, anyone who thinks I'm scum should think Galz is scum as well. Literally no reason not to take the credit for hammering scum if both options are your partners.
If it isn't unlikely enough yet, you'd have to assume that a scum team of Galzria (and myself but that's not that big of a stretch) set themselves up in a situation that terrible day 1.
... none of this doesn't mean i couldnt be a serial killer of course. Should prove you that my scumhunting motives are pure still.
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This whole exchange in particular:
Ok. So the clock is ticking to an evee lynch. Someone on the lekkit wagon convince me why I should switch
Lekkit has contributed less than I have, and will continue to do so. I will be more active, so more useful when town and easier to xatch when scum.
So you admit that you might be scum?
I realize you cant take me saying i'm town at face value. Even though its true.
Fwiw, claiming a power role would have at the very least bought me a day and also probsbly driven out a claim. Would have done that if i was scum.
I see where he's coming from here. Nobody on his wagon is going to 100% believe him if he just comes out and says "I'm town." That's a crap argument anyway. That seemed more like a "here's what you'll get if you keep me around depending on what side of the fence you think I'm on" thing.
When I'm town I actually have a hard time imagining the game from the perspective in which I might be scum.
And this makes it seem like you think they're both town at a critical point:
So question to those of you who have played before and successfully lynched scum...how they usually react when it gets down to the wire like it is now?
Depends on the person, but honestly neither Eevee nor Lekkit are giving me any reason to believe they are town right now.
I have never wanted to edit a post more than right now.....
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
I actually really don't see what that first quote has to do with anything.
But the third quote is being taken 100% out of context. Wanting to edit the post was a reference to the fact that Frisk made the "depends on the kingdom" joke in response to raerae's question, and I wished I had thought of it first.
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But the third quote is being taken 100% out of context. Wanting to edit the post was a reference to the fact that Frisk made the "depends on the kingdom" joke in response to raerae's question, and I wished I had thought of it first.
Well you should have quoted the post you wanted to edit. I had to take it that you were talking about the previous post.
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I actually really don't see what that first quote has to do with anything.
You're casting suspicion on Eevee, and you never cast suspicion like that on Lekkit when the lynch was immanent.
Why didn't you hammer Eevee if you thought they were both equally scum?
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
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But the third quote is being taken 100% out of context. Wanting to edit the post was a reference to the fact that Frisk made the "depends on the kingdom" joke in response to raerae's question, and I wished I had thought of it first.
Well you should have quoted the post you wanted to edit. I had to take it that you were talking about the previous post.
I was talking about the previous post. I said "depends on the person" where it would have been funnier to say "depends on the kingdom." Frisk asked me to clarify what I was talking about like 2 posts later, and I did.
I actually really don't see what that first quote has to do with anything.
You're casting suspicion on Eevee, and you never cast suspicion like that on Lekkit when the lynch was immanent.
Why didn't you hammer Eevee if you thought they were both equally scum?
This makes no sense. If I thought they were equally scum, there's no ultra-compelling reason for me to hammer Eevee instead.
I had already casted plenty of suspicion on Lekkit earlier in the day, and earlier still when I voted for him. I think my suspicions of Lekkit had been made quite clear.
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
Go back and look at the timestamps for everything there. 6 minutes should've been more than enough. Everybody was online (including Lekkit), and everybody was active. We were locked in a stalemate, and it had to get broken. If he wanted to claim, he could have.
Seriously, how long was he at L-1 for? One of them was going down, and someone was going to hammer. Get over it.
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
Go back and look at the timestamps for everything there. 6 minutes should've been more than enough. Everybody was online (including Lekkit), and everybody was active. We were locked in a stalemate, and it had to get broken. If he wanted to claim, he could have.
Seriously, how long was he at L-1 for? One of them was going down, and someone was going to hammer. Get over it.
Lekkit was posting every 20 minutes or so before that, easily could have missed that five minute window. I'm not going to "Get over it" and no one else should. This is a piece of evidence we need to weigh just like everything else. Hell, I wouldn't have claimed as town in Lekkit's position until it actually looked like someone was going to move wagons. Why claim a PR if Eevee was going to get lynched anyway?
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Guys, there are 4 living players who did not vote for Lekkit, and 7 who did (6 non-IC).
If no scum were bussing, we have 50/50 chance of hitting scum if we lynch off wagon, and 0 chance if we lynch on wagon.
If 1 was bussing, we have 1/4 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/6 that we lynch on wagon.
If 2 scum were bussing, we have 0 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/3 chance on wagon.
Very simplified computation:
I find scenario 3 so unlikely as to effectively ignore it. If we assume equal probability of 1st two cases, there's a 3/8 chance of hitting scum off wagon, and 1/12 chance of hitting scum on wagon.
I'm also making the assumption that there's 3 mafia and no SK. I think there's still a chance of only 2 mafia, and of course SK is still possible, though I don't know whether SK would be more likely on wagon or off.
Anyway, my point is that it's kind of ridiculous for someone who helped push the D1 lynch of scum Lekkit (me) to be the closest to lynch at the moment. Why are the folks who stayed away from Lekkit wagon getting off scot free when we know there's scum among them?
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When's our soft deadline? 2 hours or so? I'm at work and checking in periodically, and will be until then.
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Guys, there are 4 living players who did not vote for Lekkit, and 7 who did (6 non-IC).
If no scum were bussing, we have 50/50 chance of hitting scum if we lynch off wagon, and 0 chance if we lynch on wagon.
If 1 was bussing, we have 1/4 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/6 that we lynch on wagon.
If 2 scum were bussing, we have 0 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/3 chance on wagon.
Very simplified computation:
I find scenario 3 so unlikely as to effectively ignore it. If we assume equal probability of 1st two cases, there's a 3/8 chance of hitting scum off wagon, and 1/12 chance of hitting scum on wagon.
I'm also making the assumption that there's 3 mafia and no SK. I think there's still a chance of only 2 mafia, and of course SK is still possible, though I don't know whether SK would be more likely on wagon or off.
Anyway, my point is that it's kind of ridiculous for someone who helped push the D1 lynch of scum Lekkit (me) to be the closest to lynch at the moment. Why are the folks who stayed away from Lekkit wagon getting off scot free when we know there's scum among them?
as i said earlier, calculations like this are misleading, and assume that our reads are no better than random. i disagree with that premise.
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When's our soft deadline? 2 hours or so? I'm at work and checking in periodically, and will be until then.
I know we have this soft deadline... but I am very hesitant about it due to Robz not being around today. It sucks, but to go forward without any input from him... I don't know... Frisk was my biggest scum read, but getting nothing from Robz makes unsure?
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as i said earlier, calculations like this are misleading, and assume that our reads are no better than random. i disagree with that premise.
this
I think the soft deadline should be pushed back since I think the Robz/CF lynch is best.
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as i said earlier, calculations like this are misleading, and assume that our reads are no better than random. i disagree with that premise.
this
I think the soft deadline should be pushed back since I think the Robz/CF lynch is best.
(these are two separate thoughts for the confused)
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Guys, there are 4 living players who did not vote for Lekkit, and 7 who did (6 non-IC).
If no scum were bussing, we have 50/50 chance of hitting scum if we lynch off wagon, and 0 chance if we lynch on wagon.
If 1 was bussing, we have 1/4 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/6 that we lynch on wagon.
If 2 scum were bussing, we have 0 chance of lynching scum off wagon and 1/3 chance on wagon.
Very simplified computation:
I find scenario 3 so unlikely as to effectively ignore it. If we assume equal probability of 1st two cases, there's a 3/8 chance of hitting scum off wagon, and 1/12 chance of hitting scum on wagon.
I'm also making the assumption that there's 3 mafia and no SK. I think there's still a chance of only 2 mafia, and of course SK is still possible, though I don't know whether SK would be more likely on wagon or off.
Anyway, my point is that it's kind of ridiculous for someone who helped push the D1 lynch of scum Lekkit (me) to be the closest to lynch at the moment. Why are the folks who stayed away from Lekkit wagon getting off scot free when we know there's scum among them?
as i said earlier, calculations like this are misleading, and assume that our reads are no better than random. i disagree with that premise.
Your'e voting for me, so I don't know if your reads are better than random, but they're not great. And I just meant the exercise to emphasize that it makes no sense to lynch scum D1 and then immediately lynch someone on that wagon. Especially now that one of the people off wagon is dead and confirmed town, narrowing the pool.
You're so confident that I'm scum that you're going give a pass to the subset of people who didn't vote Lekkit? As far as I can tell your case against me is "I disagree with Cuzz about yuma."
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When's our soft deadline? 2 hours or so? I'm at work and checking in periodically, and will be until then.
I know we have this soft deadline... but I am very hesitant about it due to Robz not being around today. It sucks, but to go forward without any input from him... I don't know... Frisk was my biggest scum read, but getting nothing from Robz makes unsure?
You're currently voting for the person with the biggest wagon at the moment, so why should you have a huge problem with it? Because you know I'm going to flip town and know it will look bad if you don't oppose the deadline?
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We're down to 5 days in the bank. Pushing back anymore is a terrible idea.
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When's our soft deadline? 2 hours or so? I'm at work and checking in periodically, and will be until then.
I know we have this soft deadline... but I am very hesitant about it due to Robz not being around today. It sucks, but to go forward without any input from him... I don't know... Frisk was my biggest scum read, but getting nothing from Robz makes unsure?
You're currently voting for the person with the biggest wagon at the moment, so why should you have a huge problem with it? Because you know I'm going to flip town and know it will look bad if you don't oppose the deadline?
because it is worth using up a few hours to let robz have some words at least... PPE: A few hours even is a horrible idea?
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
Go back and look at the timestamps for everything there. 6 minutes should've been more than enough. Everybody was online (including Lekkit), and everybody was active. We were locked in a stalemate, and it had to get broken. If he wanted to claim, he could have.
Seriously, how long was he at L-1 for? One of them was going down, and someone was going to hammer. Get over it.
Lekkit was posting every 20 minutes or so before that, easily could have missed that five minute window. I'm not going to "Get over it" and no one else should. This is a piece of evidence we need to weigh just like everything else. Hell, I wouldn't have claimed as town in Lekkit's position until it actually looked like someone was going to move wagons. Why claim a PR if Eevee was going to get lynched anyway?
Theorel had even declared an intent to hammer Eevee (which I missed)
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@Robz: Do you expect to catch up anytime soon?
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
Go back and look at the timestamps for everything there. 6 minutes should've been more than enough. Everybody was online (including Lekkit), and everybody was active. We were locked in a stalemate, and it had to get broken. If he wanted to claim, he could have.
Seriously, how long was he at L-1 for? One of them was going down, and someone was going to hammer. Get over it.
Lekkit was posting every 20 minutes or so before that, easily could have missed that five minute window. I'm not going to "Get over it" and no one else should. This is a piece of evidence we need to weigh just like everything else. Hell, I wouldn't have claimed as town in Lekkit's position until it actually looked like someone was going to move wagons. Why claim a PR if Eevee was going to get lynched anyway?
Theorel had even declared an intent to hammer Eevee (which I missed)
Isn't this why Galz would have just waited for theorel if he was Lekkit's scumbuddy?
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Galz, your hammer vote was terrible. You say you gave warning... You gave SIX MINUTES of warning. I'd be completely pushing for your lynch today if Lekkit didn't flip scum. And because of that I think you're also candidate for busing since you didn't consider how the hammer would look if it was on town.
Go back and look at the timestamps for everything there. 6 minutes should've been more than enough. Everybody was online (including Lekkit), and everybody was active. We were locked in a stalemate, and it had to get broken. If he wanted to claim, he could have.
Seriously, how long was he at L-1 for? One of them was going down, and someone was going to hammer. Get over it.
Lekkit was posting every 20 minutes or so before that, easily could have missed that five minute window. I'm not going to "Get over it" and no one else should. This is a piece of evidence we need to weigh just like everything else. Hell, I wouldn't have claimed as town in Lekkit's position until it actually looked like someone was going to move wagons. Why claim a PR if Eevee was going to get lynched anyway?
Theorel had even declared an intent to hammer Eevee (which I missed)
Isn't this why Galz would have just waited for theorel if he was Lekkit's scumbuddy?
I'll have to think on this.
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Here is a list of his activity leading up to the deadline (and does not go as far back as his spam posting):
Lekkit Post:
#550 - 5:27
#554 - 5:35
#555 - 5:38
#558 - 5:44
#559 - 5:46
#573 - 6:21
#576 - 6:28
#579 - 6:31
#583 - 6:36
#600 - 6:41
#629 - 7:08
#642 - 7:19
#676 - 7:40
He was lynched between the last two. With the exception of #600 - #629, and #559 - #573, there was no time where it was even somewhat apparent that he wasn't around and just as active as the rest of his. Most of his posts came about 5 minutes apart. Certainly the feeling was that he was sitting there watching to see what happened, just like everybody else. Had I been town in his shoes I would've been damn sure to have my claim on hand if someone mentioned intent to hammer. What's more, he claims that we lynched him while he was away for2 minutes. Maybe that's true, but you don't freaking leave without saying "hey, gotta run for 15. Nobody hammer me before I have a chance to claim".
As far as was reasonable to tell, he was there and choosing not to claim. I absolutely WILL NOT apologize for hammering him there, regardless of his alignment.
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I think the soft deadline should be pushed back since I think the Robz/CF lynch is best.
uhhh wow
well, at least you're honest about your reasoning.
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I think the soft deadline should be pushed back since I think the Robz/CF lynch is best.
uhhh wow
well, at least you're honest about your reasoning.
And it looks like a lot of cuzz voters (at least yuma) think so too. But it can't happen if he's "Catching up"
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Here is a list of his activity leading up to the deadline (and does not go as far back as his spam posting):
Lekkit Post:
#550 - 5:27
#554 - 5:35
#555 - 5:38
#558 - 5:44
#559 - 5:46
#573 - 6:21
#576 - 6:28
#579 - 6:31
#583 - 6:36
#600 - 6:41
#629 - 7:08
#642 - 7:19
#676 - 7:40
He was lynched between the last two. With the exception of #600 - #629, and #559 - #573, there was no time where it was even somewhat apparent that he wasn't around and just as active as the rest of his. Most of his posts came about 5 minutes apart. Certainly the feeling was that he was sitting there watching to see what happened, just like everybody else. Had I been town in his shoes I would've been damn sure to have my claim on hand if someone mentioned intent to hammer. What's more, he claims that we lynched him while he was away for2 minutes. Maybe that's true, but you don't freaking leave without saying "hey, gotta run for 15. Nobody hammer me before I have a chance to claim".
As far as was reasonable to tell, he was there and choosing not to claim. I absolutely WILL NOT apologize for hammering him there, regardless of his alignment.
I hate * 4 ⇈⇈ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth%27s_up-arrow_notation) 4 the tell that assumes someone plays exactly like you would, that'd they'd be around for every thing all the time. Looking at forum active time/activity is what gets me mislynched most often (at least recently)
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Here is a list of his activity leading up to the deadline (and does not go as far back as his spam posting):
Lekkit Post:
#550 - 5:27
#554 - 5:35
#555 - 5:38
#558 - 5:44
#559 - 5:46
#573 - 6:21
#576 - 6:28
#579 - 6:31
#583 - 6:36
#600 - 6:41
#629 - 7:08
#642 - 7:19
#676 - 7:40
He was lynched between the last two. With the exception of #600 - #629, and #559 - #573, there was no time where it was even somewhat apparent that he wasn't around and just as active as the rest of his. Most of his posts came about 5 minutes apart. Certainly the feeling was that he was sitting there watching to see what happened, just like everybody else. Had I been town in his shoes I would've been damn sure to have my claim on hand if someone mentioned intent to hammer. What's more, he claims that we lynched him while he was away for2 minutes. Maybe that's true, but you don't freaking leave without saying "hey, gotta run for 15. Nobody hammer me before I have a chance to claim".
As far as was reasonable to tell, he was there and choosing not to claim. I absolutely WILL NOT apologize for hammering him there, regardless of his alignment.
I hate * 4 ⇈⇈ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth%27s_up-arrow_notation) 4 the tell that assumes someone plays exactly like you would, that'd they'd be around for every thing all the time. Looking at forum active time/activity is what gets me mislynched most often (at least recently)
I don't expect people to be. But it's a BS argument to say that he wasn't around. He was. And he knew damn well what the situation was. And if he was town and didn't bother to say "hey, brb, don't lynch me before I can claim", then that's not my problem and I won't apologize for it.
The fact is, he was scum, and I won't apologize for that either.
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Five Minutes. Five. Five is too short no matter how you slice it.
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I think the soft deadline should be pushed back since I think the Robz/CF lynch is best.
uhhh wow
well, at least you're honest about your reasoning.
And it looks like a lot of cuzz voters (at least yuma) think so too. But it can't happen if he's "Catching up"
ultimately I'll leave it up to raerae, but I wanted to give my input
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Five Minutes. Five. Five is too short no matter how you slice it.
5 minutes was the last. It had been that way, ready to tip for hours.
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Rereading Frisk, he lends vague support to the Lekkit lynch soooo many times at the end of D1 and then votes Eevee and asks someone to "convince him why he should switch."
Hmm this similar to the reverse of how I was acting, except that I was voting Lekkit and Lekkit flipped scum, so I actually do find Frisk pretty scummy here.
Vote: Robz
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Five Minutes. Five. Five is too short no matter how you slice it.
The only reason this is worth continuing to argue about is if you really believe scum Galz wouldn't have just waited for theorel to hammer the person at L-1 who was not Galz's scumbuddy.
Unless Galz is a serial killer. But then it shouldn't have mattered because what does he care, someone other than him is getting lynched no matter what?
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Five Minutes. Five. Five is too short no matter how you slice it.
The only reason this is worth continuing to argue about is if you really believe scum Galz wouldn't have just waited for theorel to hammer the person at L-1 who was not Galz's scumbuddy.
Unless Galz is a serial killer. But then it shouldn't have mattered because what does he care, someone other than him is getting lynched no matter what?
I believe that scumGalz is capable of anything... I don't think it likely, but I can't fault axxle for discussing it.
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This should maybe go without saying, but I'd really like to push the deadline back a bit. This is selfish of course, as I have the largest wagon on me at the moment, but I will point out that the case on me has not been mentioned or discussed by raerae, Jimmmmm, or Robz. Furthermore, two of the people on my wagon (theorel and shraeye) have not been heard from at all lately.
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And again I would repeat my desire not to do so. Our bank is down to 5 days, and draining. I think pushing it back is only and solely to the advantage of scum.
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And again I would repeat my desire not to do so. Our bank is down to 5 days, and draining. I think pushing it back is only and solely to the advantage of scum.
well Robz is online and blitz day 1 is almost over, so perhaps he will be able to get refreshed soonish?
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Five Minutes. Five. Five is too short no matter how you slice it.
5 minutes was the last. It had been that way, ready to tip for hours.
I forgot about bankable days and soft deadlines in this game so those are points that help explain your behavior and what you expected from Lekkit too. I'll drop this for now an any case.
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And again I would repeat my desire not to do so. Our bank is down to 5 days, and draining. I think pushing it back is only and solely to the advantage of scum.
I see your point, but the fact remains that four of the players here are also focused on a Blitz game with an actual deadline that coincides with out soft deadline, and no one is really making any cases here.
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
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And again I would repeat my desire not to do so. Our bank is down to 5 days, and draining. I think pushing it back is only and solely to the advantage of scum.
I see your point, but the fact remains that four of the players here are also focused on a Blitz game with an actual deadline that coincides with out soft deadline, and no one is really making any cases here.
Hey! I'm doing my work in both! ;)
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
Stop. Jimm is obvtown here. FOS you for even saying this.
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
Stop. Jimm is obvtown here. FOS you for even saying this.
This is news to me.
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
(╯°□°）╯︵ zznƆ
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
Stop. Jimm is obvtown here. FOS you for even saying this.
No one is obvtown. But I do agree with the idea. But for someone that is more likely to be town than not--that is how I like to classify Jimmm myself--I would love to hear his reads.
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Jimm is in my town category for sure. Not obvtown though.
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Alright I'm caught up but I skimmed like mad, sorry.
The day 1 wagon makes Galz and Jimm confirmed town for sure for sure.
So, I see a lot of SK conspiracy theory ralk that I think is ridiculous. I can't talk about my role as a Doctor, but needless to say, I think it's ridiculous 2 expect we have an SK right now, when we only have 1 kill.
I'm kind of most suspicious of Theorel. I always find Theorel suspicious and I've gambled the game on him being scum (and been wrong!) before, but he's my top scum read at the moment.
The reason is that his "town" play is so easy for him to duplicate. And he first raised the SK conspiracy theory.
Other than theorel, we should obviously vote for an Eevee wagoneer.
Frisk is super scummy, guys. If I hadn't just read his PM, I would think he were scum. Following this game, I thought he was probably scum after I died. I don't blame you for wanting me dead. Let me just say that he played a really stupid game for him to actually be scum. I don't know if that's persuasive at all.
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Oh, I'm a bit intoxicated.
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
Stop. Jimm is obvtown here. FOS you for even saying this.
This is news to me.
Man, I've already explained why sooo many times now. Grrr
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Cuzz's point is a good one, and one I meant to being up but forgot:
When Eevee went to L-1, Lekkit had 4 votes (L-3), which included Eevee's. If scum had wanted to avoid Lekkit's lynch (one would assume they did?), and they had the ability to do so (weren't already voting Eevee) - wouldn't it have made more sense for them to finish Eevee off, instead of waiting for Lekkit's wagon to grow (or more, contributing to it's growth)?
Raerae was vote 5 on Lekkit. She's confirmed town.
Jimmmm was vote 6. As scum, this makes no sense. He's likely confirmed town (not IC, but very, very townie).
I know that I'm town.
Eevee is almost certainly town.
If scum were on Lekkit's lynch, they actively choose to get him lynched instead of hammering Eevee, AND they committed to the bus very early on. That would be out of Cayvie/Shraeye/Cuzz. None of them were "bandwagon voters", and none of them "got on to buy cred before the lynch".
That all adds up to significantly reduce the odds on them being Mafia. Doesn't erase it entirely, but it's much less likely. Eevee was L-1 for over 15 minutes before Lekkit hit L-1. There was ample opportunity to switch.
Granted, they might've thought "there's no way Lekkit is getting lynched now over Eevee, so I'm gonna sit back" - until it was too late to switch... But odds are strong that there is indeed one off the wagon, and decent that there are two.
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Also, I know Axxle hates this kind of thing, but Jimmmm has been posting up a storm in said blitz game, but hasn't weighed in at all here since early this morning, and then only to take issue with the Robz(2) replacement.
Stop. Jimm is obvtown here. FOS you for even saying this.
This is news to me.
Man, I've already explained why sooo many times now. Grrr
Ok I went back and reread and you're saying this is mostly because of Jimmm's 6th position on Lekkit wagon. I missed that first time around, and I actually agree. Still wish he'd say something with soft deadline so soon.
PPE: I was getting to that!
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Is anyone taking this soft deadline seriously? Is it not in like 15 minutes?
2 of our obvtowns aren't even voting right now.
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I would vote for like thoeorel or something. Vote: theorel
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I would vote for like thoeorel or something. Vote: theorel
On a scale from 1 to obv are you scum?
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I would vote for like thoeorel or something. Vote: theorel
On a scale from 1 to obv are you scum?
I am not scum. Why does voting theorel make me scummy? Did I miss him becoming IC or something? Or are you just eager to protect your scumpal?
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I would vote for like thoeorel or something. Vote: theorel
On a scale from 1 to obv are you scum?
I am not scum. Why does voting theorel make me scummy? Did I miss him becoming IC or something? Or are you just eager to protect your scumpal?
I'm just trying a DAMA since you claimed drunk.
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I would vote for like thoeorel or something. Vote: theorel
On a scale from 1 to obv are you scum?
I am not scum. Why does voting theorel make me scummy? Did I miss him becoming IC or something? Or are you just eager to protect your scumpal?
I'm just trying a DAMA since you claimed drunk.
I'm already recovering quite well, so ha.
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it's a little awk that raerae set a deadline when she wouldn't be online
i'm getting nothing at all from robz's posts in this past hour, btw
robz--it's a bit of a weird question, but, in your own words, why do you think "frisk [was] super scummy"?
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it's a little awk that raerae set a deadline when she wouldn't be online
i'm getting nothing at all from robz's posts in this past hour, btw
robz--it's a bit of a weird question, but, in your own words, why do you think "frisk [was] super scummy"?
I don't know how much I should say, since I shouldn't talk about me being a Doctor. But I thought he might have noticed I was a PR, because I complained about not wanting to restart after the setup mistake was made. And he mentioned something about how that means I'm more likely to have a role (he specifically mentioned scum, but any role would make sense). When I turned up dead, my first thought was Frisk killed me.
.... Seriously, I'm not scum though.
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Vote Count 2.12
Captain_Frisk/Robz888 (3): Galzria, Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (4): shraeye, theorel, Cayvie, yuma {L-2}
theorel (2): Eevee, Robz888
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, raerae
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have ~4 days, 20 hours of bankable time remaining.
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it's a little awk that raerae set a deadline when she wouldn't be online
i'm getting nothing at all from robz's posts in this past hour, btw
robz--it's a bit of a weird question, but, in your own words, why do you think "frisk [was] super scummy"?
Me not being here wasn't intentional. Life happened and I'm home now but it can't be for long so I apologize. Also, I won't waste more time. I'm 100% admittedly sheeping my biggest town read's vote and going with Cuzz. I stand by the Robz Formally Known as Frisk being slightly more townie than scummy. I think Jimmmmm needs to figure out how to post in more than one game or accept the scum hat he wears because of it. Dude, you're playing with some of the same people in both games, you're drawing attention to yourself by not giving both games similar attention. Cayvie should be watched, she's been kind of sneaky. Not scummy, just sneaky. Maybe this is normal Cayvie? I don't know. Axxle gets serious angry eyes from me for wanting to push back the deadline. We can't burn more time. Galz gets some town cred in my book for pushing the deadline. Theorel is a mystery to me. Sorry I can't give you more guys but seeing as how this is probably my last day alive I wanted to give you what very little I have.
Vote: Cuzz
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Vote Count 2.13
Captain_Frisk/Robz888 (3): Galzria, Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (5): shraeye, theorel, Cayvie, yuma, raerae {L-1}
theorel (2): Eevee, Robz888
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have ~4 days, 20 hours of bankable time remaining.
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Yeah good call raerae spot on.
Okay I'm going to give Cuzz a read and hammer if I think he deserves it.
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Did we all agree to sheep raerae/the majority wagon now that it's the soft dedàline?
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We're at soft deadline, L-1.
I'm announcing intent to hammer.
Also, I have another announcement before I do, in case I die tonight:
I don't want to risk taking this to my grave:
I'm a Cop, I investigated Eevee last night, and he came back town.
Why Eevee? Two reasons:
1. I knew everybody would give him obvtown status today, and I wanted to make sure it was justified.
2. I was worried scum might've been protecting their Roleblocker, and thus were all actually on Lekkit's wagon. Knowing if Eevee were scum would let me know which way to look for the last.
Also, there was a decent chance that Eevee could be a SK, since he WAS found to be suspicious.
What does this all mean?
It means you'll have two IC's tomorrow instead of just one. Listen to them.
((Yes, Eevee could be a Godfather, but I don't think he is.))
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I'm fine with the hammer, I don't love this wagon at all but soft deadlines are pointless if we don't follow through.
Don't think I was the best person to be investigated, but makes this easier for me at least. :)
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I'm fine with the hammer, I don't love this wagon at all but soft deadlines are pointless if we don't follow through.
Don't think I was the best person to be investigated, but makes this easier for me at least. :)
Of course you don't. You're town.
No, Robz would've been. But this is the second time in our Mafia career together that I've chosen not to investigate him on a gut feeling, and he's wound up a dead doctor (the first was when I was the Lawman in one of the blitzes).
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FYI, I'm around, if something happens.
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Also, Cuzx IS online and was reading this thread a moment ago. I'll take a lack of response in a little while as a choice not to claim.
If he's town, he should be in here providing reads though, even if he's just VT.
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No, I also think I was SO likely to be town (or SK I guess) after yesterday, that you didn't really need to check it. But, what's done is done, and I guess after claiming VT I wasn't a likely nightkill target so that's a definite bonus. It's whatever.
Paging Cuzz.
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Wow okay Galz, why claim now? Won't that just make you the target of tonight's NK? Not saying it's scummy I just really don't understand.
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Wow okay Galz, why claim now? Won't that just make you the target of tonight's NK? Not saying it's scummy I just really don't understand.
He sort of was an target for scum's nightkills already though.
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No, I also think I was SO likely to be town (or SK I guess) after yesterday, that you didn't really need to check it. But, what's done is done, and I guess after claiming VT I wasn't a likely nightkill target so that's a definite bonus. It's whatever.
Paging Cuzz.
That's exactly why I DID. Because otherwise that's a nothing argument.
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Sorry I wasn't around. I didn't really consider that dinner plans coincided with soft deadline.
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I'm glad I wasn't hindering us from getting a lynch...and looking at the wagon I'm cautiously optimistic about this flip.
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Wow okay Galz, why claim now? Won't that just make you the target of tonight's NK? Not saying it's scummy I just really don't understand.
He sort of was an target for scum's nightkills already though.
Exactly. Scum has already proved they aren't out to get Raerae in particular, and given my mostly looked on as IC status, if I didn't say anything there was a good chance I took last nights investigation to the grave.
Did I make a bigger target of myself? Eh, probably. But I didn't think it would matter.
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This is a theory discussion we should probably take elsewhere from derailing, but I always thought the best way to use a cop power was to clear unknowns/try to find scum, not to check up on some read you were very very confident about.
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Re-read Cuzz, and I'm not sure. He seemed to be suspicious of Lekkit quite early and consistently carried that though. I guess I need to go and look at the case on him now. Sorry if this means we're going past the soft deadline.
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This is a theory discussion we should probably take elsewhere from derailing, but I always thought the best way to use a cop power was to clear unknowns/try to find scum, not to check up on some read you were very very confident about.
How often are your scum reads right and your confident reads wrong?
You were going to be given a lot of town cred. Not for anything you did, but for being "the other guy". I DID switch to Lekkit from you.. It seemed worth it to verify your status was deserved, and that you weren't going to become scum skating through the game.
Were you likely to be town? Probably. If you were scum would you have been caught otherwise? Likely not. So I investigated you to make sure.
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Fair enough. Not like I mean to imply you are a lying scum here, although that would be a genious plan (and we'll have to consider it if you somehow never die at night :)).
I do feel dirty we are lynching someone who contributed in a scum lynch, when there are people who contributed on a town lynch instead afoot.
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FWIW:
If Cuzz is scum, I would look at Axxle/Frisk(Robz)/Cayvie
If Cuzz is town, go back and read my posy on why Shraeye is the most likely busser. Remember "When a player seems TOO confident in catching a scum, you probably have a bus".
Also, if he's Town, FoS at Yuma, and then Theorel, in that order (for Lekkit voters).
If Shraeye turns up scum at some point though, remember that he derailed the Frisk lynch.
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Fair enough. Not like I mean to imply you are a lying scum here, although that would be a genious plan (and we'll have to consider it if you somehow never die at night :)).
I do feel dirty we are lynching someone who contributed in a scum lynch, when there are people who contributed on a town lynch instead afoot.
If scum want to leave me alive to investigate more, more power to them.
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Cuzz logged off. I'm giving him until 10:00 forum time, then hammering. I'm not wasting anymore of this day.
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Cuzz logged off. I'm giving him until 10:00 forum time, then hammering. I'm not wasting anymore of this day.
Interesting developments here. I think that I am ok with this lynch going through. My vote is already on him. If Cuzz flips scum, this is looking really really good for town with 2 ICs--Eevee, raerae--as Galz is likely to die tonight if he is indeed cop. Although SK potentially could skew things a bit, but I have approached this whole game from the standpoint of no-SK until proven otherwise.
If Cuzz flips town I still think we are still in a good spot.
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Cuzz is back online.
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Galz, we still have 20 minutes... let's talk about this...
I think I am pulling a bit of a you and getting cold feet on Cuzz. I am thinking it might be better to go back to the Robz off-Lekkit lynch. I don't want to waste time, but like I said we have 20 minutes until you said we would hammer...
Do you think Cuzz is more likely scum than Robz?
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Ugh I don't really understand this case on me but I do realize we have to lynch soon. But I'm VT. Sorry i'm at a bar so can't talk too much which is why I was pushing for more discussion before the deadline. Still most suspicious of Robz and Yuma. Axxle to some extent. Really everyone off Lekkit wagon which is where I really felt we should have been devoting our attention today. Theorel was a town read yesterday but not super strong anymore.
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Ugh I don't really understand this case on me but I do realize we have to lynch soon. But I'm VT. Sorry i'm at a bar so can't talk too much which is why I was pushing for more discussion before the deadline. Still most suspicious of Robz and Yuma. Axxle to some extent. Really everyone off Lekkit wagon which is where I really felt we should have been devoting our attention today. Theorel was a town read yesterday but not super strong anymore.
Getting hammered at a bar?
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I really feel like there was just some group think happening here since I still really don't know what the case on me is. I pushed for the Lekkit lynch sincerely.
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Ugh I don't really understand this case on me but I do realize we have to lynch soon. But I'm VT. Sorry i'm at a bar so can't talk too much which is why I was pushing for more discussion before the deadline. Still most suspicious of Robz and Yuma. Axxle to some extent. Really everyone off Lekkit wagon which is where I really felt we should have been devoting our attention today. Theorel was a town read yesterday but not super strong anymore.
Getting hammered at a bar?
Beautiful.
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Galz, we still have 20 minutes... let's talk about this...
I think I am pulling a bit of a you and getting cold feet on Cuzz. I am thinking it might be better to go back to the Robz off-Lekkit lynch. I don't want to waste time, but like I said we have 20 minutes until you said we would hammer...
Do you think Cuzz is more likely scum than Robz?
Not particularly, no. But trying to change wagons will eat another day. And I DO think that if nothing else Cuzz will be very informative, even if he flips town, because I think Shraeye was the most likely scum from Lekkit's wagon coming into today, and I think if Cuzz flips town then he should get some good, hard scrutiny tomorrow.
Honestly? I've got a terrible headache, and really don't feel like getting played or toyed with tonight. This game is a pain in the ass as it is. So I want to stick to the plan.
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Buy seriously, I'm being super rude to the people I'm with so I can't be on much more till I get home.
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Galz, we still have 20 minutes... let's talk about this...
I think I am pulling a bit of a you and getting cold feet on Cuzz. I am thinking it might be better to go back to the Robz off-Lekkit lynch. I don't want to waste time, but like I said we have 20 minutes until you said we would hammer...
Do you think Cuzz is more likely scum than Robz?
Not particularly, no. But trying to change wagons will eat another day. And I DO think that if nothing else Cuzz will be very informative, even if he flips town, because I think Shraeye was the most likely scum from Lekkit's wagon coming into today, and I think if Cuzz flips town then he should get some good, hard scrutiny tomorrow.
Honestly? I've got a terrible headache, and really don't feel like getting played or toyed with tonight. This game is a pain in the ass as it is. So I want to stick to the plan.
All right I keep my vote... I have learned from in this game to trust my gut and not change my mind at the last second. We will see how that turns out.
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I hate that he claimed VT. Much like Eevee did D1, it's a bad scum move in this setup because fake claims throw huge ass wrenches in things for town.
Grrr
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Vote Count 2.13
Captain_Frisk/Robz888 (3): Galzria, Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (5): shraeye, theorel, Cayvie, yuma, raerae {L-1}
theorel (2): Eevee, Robz888
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on Wednesday, December 26, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
You have ~4 days, 20 hours of bankable time remaining.
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I hate that he claimed VT. Much like Eevee did D1, it's a bad scum move in this setup because fake claims throw huge ass wrenches in things for town.
Grrr
yeah... I know... there are like 6 people watching this thread... thoughts everyone?
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Eevee, would you vote Ftisk over Theorel?
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Eevee, would you vote Ftisk over Theorel?
one down side to that is that robz isn't on to claim...
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I hate that he claimed VT. Much like Eevee did D1, it's a bad scum move in this setup because fake claims throw huge ass wrenches in things for town.
Grrr
Not a fake claim. Dunno what to tell you. I really wish someone voting for me would reread my interaction with Lekkit. WIFOM here but I really can't believe it looks like bussing because it isn't.
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I hate that he claimed VT. Much like Eevee did D1, it's a bad scum move in this setup because fake claims throw huge ass wrenches in things for town.
Grrr
claiming VT however have been a good way to stay alive recently. Before we just lynched them, but as of late VT claims keeps you alive. I claimed it in MXV, where I was VT, and stayed alive. Like you said, Eevee earlier this game... so... I don't know...
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Ok I'm seriously gone for now guys.
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Ok I'm seriously gone for now guys.
Go for it. You've done what you can if you're town.
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Jimmm, Theorel, what do you think?
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Eevee, would you vote Ftisk over Theorel?
one down side to that is that robz isn't on to claim...
Ugh.
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Eevee, would you vote Ftisk over Theorel?
one down side to that is that robz isn't on to claim...
Ugh.
So the question is this... is time saved worth getting the lynch right? And it isn't even guaranteed to be right...
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and shraeye!!! you guys are here... what gives?
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I dunno, I hate judging last minute before-lynch talk (it always sounds townie to me)...I realized that after we lynched sparky in XII (I was sure he was going to flip town). So, I'm not able to judge Cuzz' last words.
I'm willing to switch back to Frisk if we can make that lynch happen without wasting excessive time.
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I dunno, I hate judging last minute before-lynch talk (it always sounds townie to me)...I realized that after we lynched sparky in XII (I was sure he was going to flip town). So, I'm not able to judge Cuzz' last words.
I'm willing to switch back to Frisk if we can make that lynch happen without wasting excessive time.
The only concern is claiming from Captain_Robz
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You can't get anywhere near close to being right.
I'm really not sure now how to approach this game - I'm used to the blitz mindset where usually at least half of your suspects are scum. But there are just so many more Townies in this game.
I guess the Cuzz lynch is going through. Galz, would you like to hammer, or should I?
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You can't get anywhere near close to being right.
I'm really not sure now how to approach this game - I'm used to the blitz mindset where usually at least half of your suspects are scum. But there are just so many more Townies in this game.
I guess the Cuzz lynch is going through. Galz, would you like to hammer, or should I?
well let's get it over with then...
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You can't get anywhere near close to being right.
I'm really not sure now how to approach this game - I'm used to the blitz mindset where usually at least half of your suspects are scum. But there are just so many more Townies in this game.
I guess the Cuzz lynch is going through. Galz, would you like to hammer, or should I?
Do NOT
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Sorry, "right" was meant to be "guaranteed".
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Okay, NOT.
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You can't get anywhere near close to being right.
I'm really not sure now how to approach this game - I'm used to the blitz mindset where usually at least half of your suspects are scum. But there are just so many more Townies in this game.
I guess the Cuzz lynch is going through. Galz, would you like to hammer, or should I?
Do NOT
or NOT
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Sorry Galz, isn't now the time you said you'd hammer? Has something changed?
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I don't even know right now. My reads are going haywire.
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Oh jeez just noticed the cop claim, ok
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Oh jeez just noticed the cop claim, ok
yeah, i know... I am treating it as a surefire thing right now, which may end up being a mistake... It is so hard to trust Galz with these sorts of things...
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I dunno, I hate judging last minute before-lynch talk (it always sounds townie to me)...I realized that after we lynched sparky in XII (I was sure he was going to flip town). So, I'm not able to judge Cuzz' last words.
I'm willing to switch back to Frisk if we can make that lynch happen without wasting excessive time.
The only concern is claiming from Captain_Robz
Poopy diaper ftw...
Do we have an idea when Robz would be able to claim? I'm heading to bed soon, so if he came back around 11 and gave reason not to lynch him I would not be available to move my vote back.
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He said this a while ago in a different game...
Well, I gotta take a break for a bit. See y'all later.
"A bit" is kinda vague
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Hammer, damn it.
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Hammer, damn it.
He's going to flip freaking town.
Fine. Enjoy.
Vote: Cuzz
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yeah...so, here's where I'm thinking:
if we switch to Robz/Frisk it would probably cost a couple extra hours of bankable deadline to hear him claim. I don't think a couple extra hours are a big deal.
To me, there are 2 questions:
1. Do we want to be pulling claims like this? i.e. will it really be helpful to town to push Robz to claim?
2. Do we have people who are going to be around that would be able to respond to it and end the day regardless say by midnight? (with secondary question: where would my vote need to be to enable this whichever way it goes...i.e. who else is willing to vote one way or the other that isn't currently?)
Nevermind, deed's done.
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Thread locked.
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D2 Final Vote Count
Captain_Frisk/Robz888 (2): Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (6): shraeye, theorel, Cayvie, yuma, raerae, Galzria
theorel (2): Eevee, Robz888
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
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The group paced the floor of the Magic Box, discussing what to do. A few sat on the stairs leading up to the rare books section.
"Um, guys? I think we're running out of time here. Who knows what bad thing could happen next?" raerae said, wringing her hands.
With a look of determination, the others took her lead. Maybe it's Captain_Frisk? Or maybe Theorel? No, it must be Cuzz who did the bad thing. And so they found him, and pulled him to the middle of the room.
"Come on people, I'm cool yo. It's five by five, you know?" Cuzz said to everyone, holding out her hands.
And then they fell upon Cuzz with fists and fury. Someone grabbed a splintered shelf and stabbed it through Cuzz's chest. They all pulled back, expecting a puff, like the last guy. There was no puff of dust, just a lot of blood.
"Look through her jacket! See what you can find, guys!" raerae said.
Her pockets were empty, but when they flipped her over, they saw a tattoo on her back that read "Faith."
Cuzz was Faith Lehane, the Serial Killer.
It is now Night 2. Night actions are due in 48 hours, 10:30 p.m. on December 22.
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Day broke and the group woke up feeling like they hardly got any sleep. They stretched and yawned, then paused expectantly...
...
But the expected "guys" didn't come. Where was their chatterbox? Oh...there, crumpled and broken.
raerae is dead. She was Dawn Summers, the Scooby Gang Innocent Child.
The group was saddened. They felt like they had lost their key...as they stumbled back to the table to discuss who could have done this, someone cried out. Another body was found.
Captain_Robz was splayed out on the table, a wooden stake protruding from his chest. They searched his clothes and found ER scrubs and a red dress. They were Glorificus, the Big Bad Roleblocker.
More death. More blood. More determination. Who would lead them now?
Day 3 has begun. Deadline will be determined shortly, but in addition to your three guaranteed days, I am adding one full day to compensate for Christmas/Boxing Day. So you are guaranteed time until Tuesday evening before your banked time begins.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
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Yay Vig! Whoo!
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Oh, and DAMN we're good. Awesome job.
Also, now that the Roleblocker is dead, I can come clean:
I'm only a 1-shot Cop. I wanted to eat either the Roleblock or the Kill last night since I was essentially a VT now. I figured the best way to do so was to claim full cop.
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is it time for a mass claim? i think we're awful close to solving the setup.
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is it time for a mass claim? i think we're awful close to solving the setup.
I was trying to figure out if this would help or not.
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
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or galz is lying.
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Well, we had 1 C (me), and 1 D (Robz) for sure.
We've also got at least 1 V. (If the Vig was one shot).
That leaves a possible 4 T. But only 3 T and 1 T have a Serial Killer.
So: We have at either 1 more town "roll", or 3 rolls.
Depending on which will determine if the last Mafia is the Godfather, or Goon. But that's all it determines. Is outing any more power roles worth finding out? I'm not sure.
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Well, we had 1 C (me), and 1 D (Robz) for sure.
We've also got at least 1 V. (If the Vig was one shot).
That leaves a possible 4 T. But only 3 T and 1 T have a Serial Killer.
So: We have at either 1 more town "roll", or 3 rolls.
Depending on which will determine if the last Mafia is the Godfather, or Goon. But that's all it determines. Is outing any more power roles worth finding out? I'm not sure.
And M (raerae)
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
CF's behavior all but guarantees that Eevee is town. He wouldn't try to stop lekkit's lynch so scummily in order to lynch his godfather.
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Well, we had 1 C (me), and 1 D (Robz) for sure.
We've also got at least 1 V. (If the Vig was one shot).
That leaves a possible 4 T. But only 3 T and 1 T have a Serial Killer.
So: We have at either 1 more town "roll", or 3 rolls.
Depending on which will determine if the last Mafia is the Godfather, or Goon. But that's all it determines. Is outing any more power roles worth finding out? I'm not sure.
And M (raerae)
Whoops, yes, you're right.
So:
CDMV
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TTT/TXX
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
CF's behavior all but guarantees that Eevee is town. He wouldn't try to stop lekkit's lynch so scummily in order to lynch his godfather.
Yep.
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
CF's behavior all but guarantees that Eevee is town. He wouldn't try to stop lekkit's lynch so scummily in order to lynch his godfather.
right, good.
yes.
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
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I don't think a mass claim at this point is the proper course of action...
Instead I am wondering if I should vote Axxle (I don't think I would feel comfortable with a theorel vote at this juncture) or go look for bussing on the Lekkit wagon.
It is possible that both scum were off the Lekkit wagon as both Frisk and Robz weren't online at the time--hence why they didn't hammer away eevee.
heck... vote: Axxle
oh, and Galz... good job sticking to your gut!
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
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I'm wondering, there are 8 alive, and 1 near IC (Eevee), one all-but-must-be-town (me, unless you think I hammered Lekkit, just to follow by D2 hardcore bussing CF), and a Vig.
If the Vig claims, that's 3 prob-town in 8.
I'm just wondering how much one scum could mess with our claims, and does either fake claiming (or not) leave them dead-to-rights by PoE either way? (If the numbers add up, he's not fakeclaiming, if they don't, he is).
In either situation, it clears a chunk of the town.
Thoughts?
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
If there is a another cop, the scum is a Godfather and the cop is useless away. Just a named VT.
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I'm wondering, there are 8 alive, and 1 near IC (Eevee), one all-but-must-be-town (me, unless you think I hammered Lekkit, just to follow by D2 hardcore bussing CF), and a Vig.
If the Vig claims, that's 3 prob-town in 8.
I'm just wondering how much one scum could mess with our claims, and does either fake claiming (or not) leave them dead-to-rights by PoE either way? (If the numbers add up, he's not fakeclaiming, if they don't, he is).
In either situation, it clears a chunk of the town.
Thoughts?
I get that, but I'm wondering if having 3 probtown now is better than having 2 prob town tomorrow. Or 3 prob town if the vig gets run up.
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By the way, I think this is the first non blitz game that town has the chance to run Perfect in - and that's WITH a Vig around. /exciting
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
Important question. Galz was claiming cop, not 1-shot cop. And claiming that Eevee was conftown. So scum had 3 ICs to deal with, supposedly. raerae, Galz a non-counterclaimed cop, and Eevee. Why kill the IC instead of killing Galz who could continue to investigate?
There are only two answers that seem reasonable to me. Either Galz is actually scum, or the final mafioso is definitely a godfather. The latter would mean that the situation is CMVDTXX where the Xs are anything but T, right?
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
Important question. Galz was claiming cop, not 1-shot cop. And claiming that Eevee was conftown. So scum had 3 ICs to deal with, supposedly. raerae, Galz a non-counterclaimed cop, and Eevee. Why kill the IC instead of killing Galz who could continue to investigate?
There are only two answers that seem reasonable to me. Either Galz is actually scum, or the final mafioso is definitely a godfather. The latter would mean that the situation is CMVDTXX where the Xs are anything but T, right?
Roleblock
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
Important question. Galz was claiming cop, not 1-shot cop. And claiming that Eevee was conftown. So scum had 3 ICs to deal with, supposedly. raerae, Galz a non-counterclaimed cop, and Eevee. Why kill the IC instead of killing Galz who could continue to investigate?
There are only two answers that seem reasonable to me. Either Galz is actually scum, or the final mafioso is definitely a godfather. The latter would mean that the situation is CMVDTXX where the Xs are anything but T, right?
Or because they had a Roleblocker who could continuously block me, so that I could NOT, in fact, continue to investigate me.
Which is exactly WHY I claimed full cop. Because blocking me meant blocking a VT, and NOT a potential PR somewhere else.
Further, do you REALLY think it made sense to NK me when I was calling quite loudly for Frisk's head on a platter? Yeah, that would paint him a nice rosy picture.
Killing somebody else and Roleblocking me was the only logical choice for scum, which is exactly what I wanted. It freed up our other possible PR's to act freely.
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Oh, and DAMN we're good. Awesome job.
Also, now that the Roleblocker is dead, I can come clean:
I'm only a 1-shot Cop. I wanted to eat either the Roleblock or the Kill last night since I was essentially a VT now. I figured the best way to do so was to claim full cop.
Well played!
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I'd like to hear from Voltgloss and Jorbles.
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I'd like to hear from Voltgloss and Jorbles.
They are not in this game.
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I'd like to hear from Voltgloss and Jorbles.
They are not in this game.
And jorbles is the comod
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lololol sorry, i suck. drunk. nevermind.
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Is it fun being uncheckable by the cop?
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Is it fun being uncheckable by the cop?
Lol.
I got a pm I didnt quite understand because i checked it from phone drunk and generally suck. I think I'm just a named townie now. WHY WOULD ANYONE USE A POWER LIKE THIS ON ME? Genuinely confused, maybe this is me never understanding this setup properly biting me in the ass.
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But maybe this thing can be used to clear that I'm not a godfather? Instruct me, Galzria.
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But maybe this thing can be used to clear that I'm not a godfather? Instruct me, Galzria.
I think you're in the wrong game eevee.
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But maybe this thing can be used to clear that I'm not a godfather? Instruct me, Galzria.
I think you're in the wrong game eevee.
90% I'm not.
if other townies got the same thing i did, we just caught our scum in axxle.
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Eevee, I think you're in the wrong game.
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Eevee, I think you're in the wrong game.
I am not. I am certain, unless ashersky just decided to troll me for no reason.
I got a pm adressed to myself, Volt and Jorbles saying I suddenly remember everything.. at least my own name. It has the words scooby gang, so it should be about this game..
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Eevee, I think you're in the wrong game.
I am not. I am certain, unless ashersky just decided to troll me for no reason.
I got a pm adressed to myself, Volt and Jorbles saying I suddenly remember everything.. at least my own name. It has the words scooby gang, so it should be about this game..
That... Makes no sense man. There's no role in this setup that would do that, and no special feature to this game that makes that happen.
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Eevee, I think you're in the wrong game.
I am not. I am certain, unless ashersky just decided to troll me for no reason.
I got a pm adressed to myself, Volt and Jorbles saying I suddenly remember everything.. at least my own name. It has the words scooby gang, so it should be about this game..
That... Makes no sense man. There's no role in this setup that would do that, and no special feature to this game that makes that happen.
I KNOW. Which is why I'm extra confused. Ashersky is online, so I'm assuming he'd correct any mod error that could have been made.
You know I'm town and not lying though?
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Fwiw I'm not super drunk or anything like that. As confused as you are, I've triplechecked the pm, the OP and the setup...
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"For a moment, you wake from you slumber. Something tickles your ear, sparkles for just a moment.
You remember everything! Well, everything about yourself, anyway. You are Anya, the Scooby Gang Townie. This is your store, and some of these people are your friends. If only you could remember who!"
This is what it's about.
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Ashersky, there was no mention of this in the OP. You don't need to confirm Eevee got what he claims, but can you confirm that we should expect this to be possible?
I don't see why Eevee would lie here. He's all but cleared anyway. But there is no mechanic in this game for that to happen. So unless it's modconfirmed as possible, I can't see not lynching Eevee over it. If he's town and telling the truth (and I really think he is), then I've got a beef with our Mods.
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Ashersky, there was no mention of this in the OP. You don't need to confirm Eevee got what he claims, but can you confirm that we should expect this to be possible?
I don't see why Eevee would lie here. He's all but cleared anyway. But there is no mechanic in this game for that to happen. So unless it's modconfirmed as possible, I can't see not lynching Eevee over it. If he's town and telling the truth (and I really think he is), then I've got a beef with our Mods.
I would refer you to Post 2 of this thread, specifically the 5th paragraph. I will also confirm there has been no mod error.
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"This game is immersed in the Buffyverse, and all flavor will reflect that. However, knowledge of Buffy is not required to play this game. All roles are standard mafia roles, with few, minor tweaks for flavor. Buffy flavor has not substantively changed any of the roles from their normal Mafia versions. A list of all roles potentially in the game follows:"
In no way indicates to me that people can become named Townies.
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"This game is immersed in the Buffyverse, and all flavor will reflect that. However, knowledge of Buffy is not required to play this game. All roles are standard mafia roles, with few, minor tweaks for flavor. Buffy flavor has not substantively changed any of the roles from their normal Mafia versions. A list of all roles potentially in the game follows:"
In no way indicates to me that people can become named Townies.
Happy to discuss semantics after the game. As it is, I confirm nothing except to say there have been no mod errors.
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I guess that would be one of the few minor tweaks.
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Sorry about the way the claim came. Phone posting / not thinking, and it was confusing as you can all see now.
Back to hunting the scumsies?
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Eh, whatever. This is outside the rules, to me, if true - and I really don't think Eevee would make this up given that, well, there's nothing about this in the rules to support his claim.
Besides, while he may be the Godfather, I doubt it.
Anyway, I think we should mass-claim at this point. At least, the Vig who shot CF should come forward. Even if you're a full Vig that means that:
A) The last scum IS a Godfather, and
B) Town has only one more PR hidden in the wings (we have one more "roll" to land our way.)
2 conf town + 1 nearly (me) means we find scum in a pool of 5.
If the Vig was 1-shot, then stepping forward means we still aren't 100% on the setup, but still gives us 3 town, leaving 1 scum in 5.
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I said before I am against mass claim, but if enough people are for it, then I suppose we should. Who would you suggest to lead it, that tends to be more effective than just random claiming or popcorn style.
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I said before I am against mass claim, but if enough people are for it, then I suppose we should. Who would you suggest to lead it, that tends to be more effective than just random claiming or popcorn style.
There's not much claiming to be done. At this time only the Vig should claim. He cannot be counter claimed. That puts 2 town IC's in them and Eevee.
I also put credit in my Towniness, but that's up to each of you to decide personally.
That's 3 of 8, and drops the pool to 5. Pure random means we win 60% straight lynching, and we can do far better than random.
If the Vig is 1-shot, we can debate the merits of claiming out more (since there are potentially two more PR's, and that leaves room for the last scum to cast doubt by fakeclaiming).
If the Vig is full, then the last should claim because that makes 4 town, and 4 unconfirmed, and we can PoE to a win.
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Ok, I am down with that.
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I don't think a mass claim at this point is the proper course of action...
Instead I am wondering if I should vote Axxle (I don't think I would feel comfortable with a theorel vote at this juncture) or go look for bussing on the Lekkit wagon.
It is possible that both scum were off the Lekkit wagon as both Frisk and Robz weren't online at the time--hence why they didn't hammer away eevee.
heck... vote: Axxle
oh, and Galz... good job sticking to your gut!
@yuma: I've been trying to parse that bolded statement. The best conclusion I can come to is that the "both Frisk and Robz weren't online" comment shouldn't be there. Especially since Frisk was online at that time.
Having both scum not bussing, also means all 3 scum were voting Eevee (since Lekkit had joined that wagon, obviously). That just seems really bold to me...at least as bold as simply building a case on Lekkit for town-credit. I think the various bussing possibilities should be considered.
@Galzria: regardless of whether the vig is 1-shot we're not 100% on the set-up. If he's 1-shot there's the unknown 2 rolls (either PRs or Ts), and if he is not 1-shot there's a single unknown PR roll.
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Oh, I see your last post clarified the remaining role situation.
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hmmm I think you are right... I wasn't around, so I don't have a great memory of who was online during that time...
unvote for now, at least until we can figure out this claiming stuff...
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Having reconsidered my position from yesterday in light of Cuzz being SK...I think Galzria may have been correct in his assessment of Shraeye as the most likely busser. Especially because he turned focus onto Cuzz which redirected away from the Frisk-lynch, and he was around near deadline but non-participatory (though this could easily be for other reasons...he did not help us when deciding whether to lynch Frisk first, which I guess worked out anyways for town).
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Sorry if that wasn't clear. Drunk and at a bar with friends, but my point regarding the Vig is that he is an IC at this point. If scum fakeclaims him, or counter claims, he loses in two turns tops.
Given that, and the nature of this setup, we should be taking advantage of our "must be" Towns, both to reduce the possible scum pool, and to have trusted leaders.
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Having reconsidered my position from yesterday in light of Cuzz being SK...I think Galzria may have been correct in his assessment of Shraeye as the most likely busser. Especially because he turned focus onto Cuzz which redirected away from the Frisk-lynch, and he was around near deadline but non-participatory (though this could easily be for other reasons...he did not help us when deciding whether to lynch Frisk first, which I guess worked out anyways for town).
I was waiting to post this analysis until we had heard from everybody.
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I don't think a mass claim at this point is the proper course of action...
Instead I am wondering if I should vote Axxle (I don't think I would feel comfortable with a theorel vote at this juncture) or go look for bussing on the Lekkit wagon.
It is possible that both scum were off the Lekkit wagon as both Frisk and Robz weren't online at the time--hence why they didn't hammer away eevee.
heck... vote: Axxle
oh, and Galz... good job sticking to your gut!
@yuma: I've been trying to parse that bolded statement. The best conclusion I can come to is that the "both Frisk and Robz weren't online" comment shouldn't be there. Especially since Frisk was online at that time.
Having both scum not bussing, also means all 3 scum were voting Eevee (since Lekkit had joined that wagon, obviously). That just seems really bold to me...at least as bold as simply building a case on Lekkit for town-credit. I think the various bussing possibilities should be considered.
@Galzria: regardless of whether the vig is 1-shot we're not 100% on the set-up. If he's 1-shot there's the unknown 2 rolls (either PRs or Ts), and if he is not 1-shot there's a single unknown PR roll.
Yes, which is what I said.
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Having reconsidered my position from yesterday in light of Cuzz being SK...I think Galzria may have been correct in his assessment of Shraeye as the most likely busser. Especially because he turned focus onto Cuzz which redirected away from the Frisk-lynch, and he was around near deadline but non-participatory (though this could easily be for other reasons...he did not help us when deciding whether to lynch Frisk first, which I guess worked out anyways for town).
I was waiting to post this analysis until we had heard from everybody.
That's fine, I'm just not around as often as you, so i figured I'd post it while I had the chance. At this point, I haven't gone through and re-evaluated all my reads (which would be worthwhile), but i have re-evaluated that one based on the Frisk and Cuzz flips.
@Galzria: I was just confused. The post where I said you had clarified, was because I had read the next post. Putting toddler to bed sometimes means I don't read all new posts between typing and clicking post.
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That's fine. I didn't realize post #1200 was directed at me.
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So I know it is weekend so I shouldn't expect people to be around... but we are kinda burning through time waiting for people to come online and claim or not claim... is there anything to discuss while we wait?
Although with only one more scum to find perhaps time isn't quite as precious of a commodity as it was before?
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Hey Jimmmm!
Are you the Vigilante?
Are you the other Mafia?
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Hey sorry, no I'm neither, just a plain old VT here.
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Also, loving that Robz was killed by a Vig.
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Hey sorry, no I'm neither, just a plain old VT here.
that might have been a little too much info... o well.
Well we know the vig isn't me, galz, jimmm, eevee, or theorel.
So that leaves shraeye, axxle and cayvie to still answer. My money is on cayvie.
PPE: Yes irony of ironies... although if Robz1 had come into this game as scum at the beginning he might have been a little more in favor of vigs shooting...
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Hey sorry, no I'm neither, just a plain old VT here.
that might have been a little too much info... o well.
Oh sorry, I forgot there was other options. I guess Masons are still a possibility right?
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And other stuff.
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shraeye!
Are you the Vigilante?
Are you the other Mafia?
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we know there's exactly 1 mafia left, and they're either vanilla or a godfather.
there are 2 situations in which this distinction matters
1) Eevee is the godfather
2) the setup is exactly CCCDVMT
Why did you include triple C? We have 1, but if the last scum is Godfather, then we have, at present, 2 unknowns.
because that's the only setup that both fits our information and in which a non-eevee godfather could get investigated.
But in that setup a massclaim would kill our cop.
Important question. Galz was claiming cop, not 1-shot cop. And claiming that Eevee was conftown. So scum had 3 ICs to deal with, supposedly. raerae, Galz a non-counterclaimed cop, and Eevee. Why kill the IC instead of killing Galz who could continue to investigate?
There are only two answers that seem reasonable to me. Either Galz is actually scum, or the final mafioso is definitely a godfather. The latter would mean that the situation is CMVDTXX where the Xs are anything but T, right?
Or because they had a Roleblocker who could continuously block me, so that I could NOT, in fact, continue to investigate me.
Which is exactly WHY I claimed full cop. Because blocking me meant blocking a VT, and NOT a potential PR somewhere else.
Further, do you REALLY think it made sense to NK me when I was calling quite loudly for Frisk's head on a platter? Yeah, that would paint him a nice rosy picture.
Killing somebody else and Roleblocking me was the only logical choice for scum, which is exactly what I wanted. It freed up our other possible PR's to act freely.
Right, i thought about this at night, but didn't even think of the roleblocking. Still, Galz looks very towny due to his position on Frisk.
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shraeye!
Are you the Vigilante?
Are you the other Mafia?
I'll accept claim questions from only Galz at this point (or eevee). You don't have enough town cred that I'll let you lead a massclaim.
I admit that I was pushing against the Frisk-lynch. I was looking at Frisk's post #734 where he didn't understand why people were calling me towny. I would think that anyone who was Lekkit's partner would certainly remember how hard I was pushing that lynch. So I figured that since he didn't notice that lynch's driver, he couldn't be on Lekkit's team. Obviously got played there. Another thing that kept me off Frisk was the fact that the other Eevee-voters all were voting for him at some point. From my blitz days I'm inclined to see a lynch that so many people under suspicion are ok with as a mislynch.
Now that I look at my notes I remember that the Eevee-voters were all suspecting Axxle for LaL reasons before jumping on Frisk, i'll think on that.
I just don't see how theorel is looking at the Lekkit lynch and picks the loudest cheerleader on it as the most likely busser. I know it aligns suspiciously with me defending Frisk, but when I think somebody's town I defend them and look for a better lynch. Sometimes I'm wrong in the people I defend and sometimes I'm right (I loudly defended both doc-claimers Insomniac and ehunt in the first Major Arcana game; ehunt was town-doc, Insomniac was mafia-doc)
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I am not leading a mass claim... I am repeating a question that galz already asked...
I'll find the quote
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There's not much claiming to be done. At this time only the Vig should claim. He cannot be counter claimed. That puts 2 town IC's in them and Eevee.
I also put credit in my Towniness, but that's up to each of you to decide personally.
That's 3 of 8, and drops the pool to 5. Pure random means we win 60% straight lynching, and we can do far better than random.
If the Vig is 1-shot, we can debate the merits of claiming out more (since there are potentially two more PR's, and that leaves room for the last scum to cast doubt by fakeclaiming).
If the Vig is full, then the last should claim because that makes 4 town, and 4 unconfirmed, and we can PoE to a win.
Galz wants the vig to claim, so I ask are you the vig? If you aren't, just say no. I am just trying to save us some time here...
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Galz: you want to ask the question...? apparently shraeye will only respond to you.
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There's not much claiming to be done. At this time only the Vig should claim. He cannot be counter claimed. That puts 2 town IC's in them and Eevee.
I also put credit in my Towniness, but that's up to each of you to decide personally.
That's 3 of 8, and drops the pool to 5. Pure random means we win 60% straight lynching, and we can do far better than random.
If the Vig is 1-shot, we can debate the merits of claiming out more (since there are potentially two more PR's, and that leaves room for the last scum to cast doubt by fakeclaiming).
If the Vig is full, then the last should claim because that makes 4 town, and 4 unconfirmed, and we can PoE to a win.
Galz wants the vig to claim, so I ask are you the vig? If you aren't, just say no. I am just trying to save us some time here...
Sorry, still waking up from a hell of a night drinking (damn blitz mafia). Just catching up. This question is relevant and correct still though.
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Then let's wait for the Vig claim, instead of forcing it out via negative claiming ("I'm NOT the flying helicopter, are you?"). If they claim then cool, if they don't then cool.
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Then let's wait for the Vig claim, instead of forcing it out via negative claiming ("I'm NOT the flying helicopter, are you?"). If they claim then cool, if they don't then cool.
I'll take that as a no then... Beside what is the difference? If cayvie or axxle post soon and don't claim vig I'll take that as a no as well.
My asking you and jimmm was to bring it to your attention as both if you were online. The sooner we get a response from everyone to sooner we can move on and play the game. For now we are just waiting apparently. Your reaction to claiming has me a bit more suspicious of you.
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My stance on claiming is unique. I hate negative claiming, I dislike auto-claiming; claims are serious business and there is a time for them. Each situation needs to be thought about, and each person should be allowed and encouraged to decide for themselves if their current situation is a good one to claim in.
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Above you say that you will only be guided by galz in regard to claiming. Well he has offered guidance that the vig should claim yet you still hesitate? Do you hesitate because you are unsure how to claim to your best advantage as scum? Galz has laid out a pretty direct and staight forward course of action. You say we should follow galz but you still don't claim... Next rime you are scum have a better action plan, it will help you save face better.
vote: shraeye for this and for stalling the frisk robz lynch
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I just don't see how theorel is looking at the Lekkit lynch and picks the loudest cheerleader on it as the most likely busser. I know it aligns suspiciously with me defending Frisk, but when I think somebody's town I defend them and look for a better lynch. Sometimes I'm wrong in the people I defend and sometimes I'm right (I loudly defended both doc-claimers Insomniac and ehunt in the first Major Arcana game; ehunt was town-doc, Insomniac was mafia-doc)
I don't see how shraeye could read my post as "looking at the Lekkit lynch and picking the loudest cheerleader on it as the most likely busser". I thought it was pretty clear that I was looking at the Frisk/Cuzz lynches and re-evaluating the main contributor to switching the Frisk-lynch into a Cuzz-lynch, because yes Cuzz was scum, but he was not mafia. Therefore the mafia would have been happy to redirect away from Frisk into Cuzz, and you did so, so you appear scummier.
I combined this with the fact that I was the only player who thought you came off townier from your pushing of the Lekkit wagon and I've concluded that I might in fact be mistaken. So, pending further review I'm coming around to Galzria's way of thinking, which is that in fact the loudest cheerleader is more likely to be scum because they scum knew Lekkit would flip scum. I'm not sure I fully agree with that, but I can see merit in stopping from over-giving town-cred, and given your behavior yesterday (which could easily have been attempting to push that town-cred into a mislynch), I'm finding you scummier now.
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i'm not the vig
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Thank you Cayvie.
Shraeye, this is simple. I'm not asking to claim anything other than Vig/Not Vig. If you were something else, this claim would not expose that in any way.
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so... if we mass claim, our remaining mafioso is basically forced into claiming vanilla, right? at least, they can't claim anything disputed, because a 1 for 1 trade loses them the game. they could maybe guess a power role that nobody else has claimed at that point, but that's why we make the more suspicious players claim first.
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Thank you Cayvie.
Shraeye, this is simple. I'm not asking to claim anything other than Vig/Not Vig. If you were something else, this claim would not expose that in any way.
If what you are looking for is the vig, then let us wait for the vig to claim. On principle, I'm not going to negative claim. Leave the choice of whether to claim or not to the vig, I trust whoever the vig is to make the decision that they feel is best.
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I combined this with the fact that I was the only player who thought you came off townier from your pushing of the Lekkit wagon and I've concluded that I might in fact be mistaken. So, pending further review I'm coming around to Galzria's way of thinking, which is that in fact the loudest cheerleader is more likely to be scum because they scum knew Lekkit would flip scum. I'm not sure I fully agree with that, but I can see merit in stopping from over-giving town-cred, and given your behavior yesterday (which could easily have been attempting to push that town-cred into a mislynch), I'm finding you scummier now.
Raerae definitely gave me credit for the Lekkit lynch, as I recall. Also, note that I literally called Galzria over to the Lekkit lynch, when Cuzz had expressed desire to switch to Eevee and you expressed intent to hammer. I could have stayed silent, been voting for Lekkit, and let an Eevee lynch go through. Instead I took action and got Lekkit lynched however I could.
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Above you say that you will only be guided by galz in regard to claiming. Well he has offered guidance that the vig should claim yet you still hesitate? Do you hesitate because you are unsure how to claim to your best advantage as scum? Galz has laid out a pretty direct and staight forward course of action. You say we should follow galz but you still don't claim... Next rime you are scum have a better action plan, it will help you save face better.
vote: shraeye for this and for stalling the frisk robz lynch
This is absurd, mate; I think through claiming very seriously. As scum I would 100% have a plan in place. See RMM3 where I flawlessly get through a massclaim and still win, no hesitation. You are arguing that I'm clumsy mafia who doesn't know what to do, yet I have a 100% winrate as mafia. I am the exact opposite of clumsy when I roll scum.
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Can we just discuss whether we want to mass-claim given a 1-shot vig? (since with full-time vig I think the answer is unequivocal yes, right?)
I think we should. I mean I'm like 90% convinced that Galzria is town, but if the PRs are out there to force a contradiction I'd rather have that now and hunt among claimed PRs than have it turn up suddenly after we've mislynched a couple VTs. Now, assuming we don't have that situation, a couple things can happen (I'll assume the remaining claims aren't verifiable in some way, and I'm allowing for the possibility that Galzria is lying):
1. Everyone else claims VT. -this is essentially equivalent to no one claiming and we can't quite PoE the scum.
2. We get a single PR claim that uses 2 "rolls". -we have to try to determine if that claim is lying. This is essentially equivalent to 1.
3. We get 2 PR claims that use 1 roll. -we get down to 1 scum in 3. PoE win.
4. We get 3 PR claims that use 1 roll. -we have 1 in 4 (the 3 PRs and Galz).
5. We get 2 single-roll PRs, 1 double-roll PR. -we caught scum claiming a double-roll PR.
6. We get 1 single-roll 1 double-roll. Either the single-roll or Galz is lying.
I personally think the potential advantages there outweigh the danger of outing our potential remaining PR(s). I mean a cop would be useless (remaining mafia would be godfather)...so we're left with doctor or roleblocker(s) that could get outed. With multiple PRs we can PoE, so it's only the case of doctor that could go bad. But then scum either kills the doctor (making it 1 in 4 as scum) or leaves the doctor alive as a potential suspect and hopes for no kill-blocking.
Am I missing anything?
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Alright, this is how I'm looking at it (this will be from your perspective, so again, I'm not 100% Cop in this):
What we know we have:
MDV
What I've claimed:
C
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If I were completely making this up, then if there was another 1-shot Cop out there, I would've been counter-claimed.
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop, 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = 2 Cops
CCCCC = 2 Cops, 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = 3 Cops
If there is another COP out there, then they know that the setup is at LEAST: MDVCCT-X
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Now, like I've said, the Vig cannot be counter-claimed.
If you assume that I might NOT be a C, then what you know is: MDVT-XXX
Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante, 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = 2 Vigilantes
VVVVV = 2 Vigilantes, 1-Shot Vigilante
If the Vig claims full Vig, then you have MDVVT-XX
If I'm lying and there is a second Vig out there (MDVVVVT), then the second full Vig will counter-claim the first. This means that one of the Vig's, or myself, is lying. This is end-game for scum, so can't happen.
If the Vig is a 1-shot Vig, then you have MDVT-XXX. But there is no setup that can contain two 1-shot Vig's, thus he is un-counterclaimable.
The Vig is, at this point, an IC.
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Now, moving forward:
Let's assume the Vig claims 1-shot. This leaves the setup MDVT-XXX. Now, let's also make Eevee an IC here, since if you consider the possibility that I'm scum, then Eevee can't be scum as well, and if I'm town, then I certainly didn't lie about my results on him. (Obviously if he's a Godfather.. yeah yeah. But honestly ask yourself how likely that is, and would you bet the game on him NOT being one? I personally would.)
So for the sake of argument here, I'm going to assume that Axxle is the Vig (PoE):
Axxle ----- IC (1-shot Vig) (V)
Eevee ----- IC (VT)
Galzria ----- Claimed Cop (C)
Shraeye ----- ?
Theorel ----- ?
Yuma -----?
Cayvie -----?
Jimmmm ----- Claimed VT
Putting me in the roll: MDVT-C-XX
Assuming that those last two XX's are not T's (MDVTTTC), then if our last PR takes BOTH of those X's, they should claim. It leaves MDVT - CXX. If nothing is counter-claimed, then you KNOW that 1 of two things are true:
The player claiming XX is what they claim, OR the setup is MDVTTTC, and they are scum. (I cannot be scum in this situation, since MDVTTXX isn't possible, thus my C claim must be true).
This leaves you 3 IC's, 1 claimed PR, and 4 unconfirmed. In this situation, I would recommend lynching the claimed PR (unless they claim VV, since that is verifiable, and can hit the unclaimed players), otherwise Scum can try to fake-claim out to a win.
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Putting me in the roll: MDVT-C-XX
Assuming that those last two XX's are not T's (MDVTTTC), then if those last two XX's comprise TWO more PR's, claiming is a little more touchy. You have MDVT - CXX, where CXX = 3 players. If the last scum also fake-claims, that leaves a pool of 4 players (CXX/Scum) that must be decided upon. That is, I think, maximum confusion. If the last scum does NOT counter-claim, then you have CXX = confirmed town, along with Eevee, and the Vig. That makes FIVE players confirmed town. Scum lose.
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SO, to conclude this big long mess (I promise, I tried to be as clear as possible, but it's not easy):
IF the Vig is a full Vig, they should claim, making MDVVT-CX. The last PR should ALSO claim, since that gives us Myself, Vig, PR as confirmed town, along with Eevee. If the Scum counter-claims in this situation, then the scum is among: Myself, the claimed PR, and the Counter-claim. Town wins this scenario. Full Vig = Mass Claim = 4 IC's, or Scum in 3 players.
IF the Vig is a 1-Shot, they should claim, making MDVT-CXX. IF the last PR is both XX's, they should claim. This makes ME an IC, along with the Vig, and Eevee. This makes 3 IC's, 1 claimed PR (who we should lynch unless they claim VV - the only verifiable claim - this way, scum in a setup of MDVTTTC won't be tempted to fake-claim some XX role), and 4 town. Although... MAYBE if they're both XX's they should wait to claim unless necessary? <--- Thoughts on that? ----- The scum cannot counter-claim here, or it's 1 scum in 2 players = Town win.
IF the Vig is a 1-Shot, they should claim, making MDVT-CXX. IF XX makes for TWO PR's, they should both claim. If there is no counter-claim, then you have FIVE IC's, and 3 Unknowns = Town win. Because of this, scum WILL counter-claim. Realize that under this situation, single C claims are not possible, nor are single M claims, or single V claims. The only viable claims that can happen are a Single R, or a Single D. Under this situation, all players that are NOT {CXX/Scum} are IC's, and the scum is in that subset of 4.
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On the XX = 1 player bit, if XX = MM, that is also verifiable, and should absolutely be claimed, since that's two Masons (can verify each other). This makes MM = Two IC's, V = IC, C = IC (if there's a counter-claim lynch me or the counter = Town!Win). That's 4 IC's in 8, with Eevee 99%!IC as well. That gives a town win.
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Eh, still not sure if I was clear enough, so one more attempt:
Possabilities:
MDVVTTT - If the Vig claims full, and nobody else claims a PR, I'm lying scum. Lynch me, town wins.
MDVVT-CX - X should claim. If he is countered, scum is in {CX/Scum}. Lynch all three, town wins. If they do not counter-claim, town has 3 IC's (VV-X-C) + Eevee, and we're in great shape.
MDVTTTC - If no other claims happen after a 1-shot Vig claim, then this is the setup, and you have 2 IC's (V-C). If there is a single letter Counter-Claim only then lynch me and the counterclaim and town wins.
MDVT-C-X-X - If two single letter claims come forward after the Vig claims 1-shot, and no counter claim occurs, you have 4 IC's (V-C-X-X) and Eevee. If there is a counterclaim, then your scum is in {CXX/Scum}. This makes 4 IC's (everybody who hasn't claimed, plus the Vig).
MDVT-C-XX - If there is a double letter claim after the 1-shot Vig, we must decide if it's scum operating in a MDVTTTC setup, or really a double-letter PR. VV and MM are verifiable, and should claim right away. DD, CC and BB are not verifiable, so should probably be lynched (prevents scum from fake-claiming in a MDVTTTC setup). Because of this, CC/DD/BB roles should not claim. Let us work under the assumption of MDVTTTC, unless you're forced to claim. At that point we'll probably still lynch you to protect against fake-claims, BUT you get to offer your town voice until then.
And that's it. Pretty straightforward (I hope).
@Vig, claim, but do not claim Full/1-shot. If scum wants to fakeclaim, we may be able to force a mistake if they don't know if V or VV is in the setup.
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Also, FoS you all.
Ashersky, when is the deadline? With this being the weekend, and then Christmas Eevee Monday followed by Christmas Tuesday, I'm not sure we'll see a lot of activity. While Weekends happen and must be accepted, can we get an extra 48 hours (doesn't have to be added to bank - it can be added to the "3 guaranteed Days", that way we can't carry more time into tomorrow if we don't win today than we should) because of the Holidays? Basically make Day Three 5 Days + Bankable Time?
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Christmas Eevee
Bwahahaha.
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Yeah, I'm the OSV, keeping my vigging accuracy across sites at 100% (3-of-3)!
I just don't know why you guys think massclaiming is so much better than just running scummy people up and see what they claim, and if they claim a power role consider massclaiming then. It'll make it much more likely to catch scum in a lie.
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And I had a dream that yuma was lynched while I was away and flipped the last goon so...
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Thanks Axxle. The reason this will work better, is that with the Holiday's and everything else, our time schedule is going to be tight. Going this route maximizes the number of IC's we can create, and does so as quickly as possible.
Also, awesome job. +Kudos to you. I'll find some posts to upvote later.
Eh, still not sure if I was clear enough, so one more attempt:
Possabilities:
MDVVTTT - If the Vig claims full, and nobody else claims a PR, I'm lying scum. Lynch me, town wins.
MDVVT-CX - X should claim. If he is countered, scum is in {CX/Scum}. Lynch all three, town wins. If they do not counter-claim, town has 3 IC's (VV-X-C) + Eevee, and we're in great shape.
MDVTTTC - If no other claims happen after a 1-shot Vig claim, then this is the setup, and you have 2 IC's (V-C). If there is a single letter Counter-Claim only then lynch me and the counterclaim and town wins.
MDVT-C-X-X - If two single letter claims come forward after the Vig claims 1-shot, and no counter claim occurs, you have 4 IC's (V-C-X-X) and Eevee. If there is a counterclaim, then your scum is in {CXX/Scum}. This makes 4 IC's (everybody who hasn't claimed, plus the Vig).
MDVT-C-XX - If there is a double letter claim after the 1-shot Vig, we must decide if it's scum operating in a MDVTTTC setup, or really a double-letter PR. VV and MM are verifiable, and should claim right away. DD, CC and BB are not verifiable, so should probably be lynched (prevents scum from fake-claiming in a MDVTTTC setup). Because of this, CC/DD/BB roles should not claim. Let us work under the assumption of MDVTTTC, unless you're forced to claim. At that point we'll probably still lynch you to protect against fake-claims, BUT you get to offer your town voice until then.
And that's it. Pretty straightforward (I hope).
@Vig, claim, but do not claim Full/1-shot. If scum wants to fakeclaim, we may be able to force a mistake if they don't know if V or VV is in the setup.
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Also, FoS you all.
I take offense to this. I have been here!
What is the next move? Do you want to ask people to claim or PR just come forward?
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Above you say that you will only be guided by galz in regard to claiming. Well he has offered guidance that the vig should claim yet you still hesitate? Do you hesitate because you are unsure how to claim to your best advantage as scum? Galz has laid out a pretty direct and staight forward course of action. You say we should follow galz but you still don't claim... Next rime you are scum have a better action plan, it will help you save face better.
vote: shraeye for this and for stalling the frisk robz lynch
This is absurd, mate; I think through claiming very seriously. As scum I would 100% have a plan in place. See RMM3 where I flawlessly get through a massclaim and still win, no hesitation. You are arguing that I'm clumsy mafia who doesn't know what to do, yet I have a 100% winrate as mafia. I am the exact opposite of clumsy when I roll scum.
I didn't watch RMM3, so I have no idea what happened there. In fact I have never played a game with you as scum (this may be the first!)
But you are right. In this situation claiming is going to be horrible for scum, because you are already in such a terrible position. Well you are in a terrible position if you are scum, which I think you are right now... If you are town, then both of us are in a great position.
also, good job Axxle! A MVP nomination is likely on your way!
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We probably would have lynched him today anyway, just wanted to save some time.
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I never understood this setup well enough to weigh in on the claiming thing. Do what Galzria says, I don't see any problems with his plan.. but if there were, I wouldn't.
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Oh, axxle claimed. Good job man!
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The Possibilities:
MDVTTTC - If no other claims happen now, then this is the setup, and you have 2 IC's (Axxle and Myself) + Eevee (mostly IC). If there is a single letter Counter-Claim only then lynch me and the counterclaim and town wins.
MDVT-C-X-X - If two single letter claims come forward after the Vig claims 1-shot, and no counter claim occurs, you have 4 IC's (V-C-X-X) and Eevee. If there is a counterclaim, then your scum is in {CXX/Scum}. This makes 4 IC's (everybody who hasn't claimed, plus the Vig).
MDVT-C-XX - If there is a double letter claim after the 1-shot Vig, we must decide if it's scum operating in a MDVTTTC setup, or really a double-letter PR. VV and MM are verifiable, and should claim right away. DD, CC and BB are not verifiable, so should probably be lynched (prevents scum from fake-claiming in a MDVTTTC setup). Because of this, CC/DD/BB roles should not claim. Let us work under the assumption of MDVTTTC, unless you're forced to claim. At that point we'll probably still lynch you to protect against fake-claims, BUT you get to offer your town voice until then.
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At this point, if 0 "Roll" claims are made - Axxle and I are IC's.
At this point, if 1 "Single-Roll" claim is made - I'm scum, or the other claimant is.
At this point, if 2 "Single-Roll" claims are made - You have 4 IC's (Me+Axxle+X+X).
At this point, if 3 "Single-Roll" claims are made - You have 4 IC's (Axxle+3 non-claimants). (Written another way, 1 of the 3 claimants and myself must be scum, thus everybody else is IC).
At this point, if 1 "Double-Roll" claim is made - If it's not Full Vig (VV), or Two Masons (MM), then we lynch them, since they cannot verify their claim. Important Note: If you are a Doctor, Cop, or Roleblocker, and you take TWO "Rolls" to produce, DO NOT CLAIM, as it will lead to your mislynch. This protects the town from scum abusing this claim in a MDVCTTT setup. Being unclaimed means you can still lend your voice to the town, without forcing us into an awkward situation.
At this point, if 2 "Double-Roll" claims are made - Lynch in either order, and town wins.
At this point, if 1 "Double-Roll" claim is made, AND 1 "Single-Roll" claim is made - Then the single claim is lying, or I am. Lynch us in either order = Town win. This is because MDVT is guaranteed. If you add in XX, to make MDVT-XX-C, then any "Single-Roll" claim is only a counter-claim on me, since it's impossible to have MDVTTC-X, which is what it would mean if you considered the "double-roll" a liar.
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And that covers everything. At this point, the remaining PR's should claim. If No claim is forthcoming, we're either working with MDVCTTT, or MDVCTXX. In either case, no more claims means that Axxle and I are IC's.
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theorel and I are masons. Eevee this explains your weird PM... we also sent one to cayvie.
Apparently that is one of our powers
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theorel and I are masons. Eevee this explains your weird PM... we also sent one to cayvie.
Apparently that is one of our powers
Good lord that's awesome.
I'll await verification from Theorel, and any counter-claims that might come out, but I'll post the setup before then, and alter based on what happens.
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theorel and I are masons. Eevee this explains your weird PM... we also sent one to cayvie.
Apparently that is one of our powers
Good lord that's awesome.
I'll await verification from Theorel, and any counter-claims that might come out, but I'll post the setup before then, and alter based on what happens.
yeah, basically we are left with cayvie, jimmm and shraeye. My bet is on shraeye
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Awesome!
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I was really hoping that I would at some point get to L-1 and then drop the claim... would have been much more dramatic that way. But this way is good too...
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Game Setup:
MMM (2 Masons + 1 IC) = Theorel, Yuma, and Raerae.
D (Doctor) = Robz
V (1-shot Vig) = Axxle
C (1-shot Cop) = Galzria
T (1 Goon, 1 Roleblocker, 1 Godfather, 1 SK) = Lekkit, Frisk, ????, Cuzz
List:
1 – Robz888 - Doctor
2 – Jimmmmm
3 - cayvie
4 - Eevee
5 - [color=redCaptain_Frisk - Roleblocker[/color]
6 - Shraeye
7 - Lekkit - Goon
8 - Cuzz - Serial Killer
9 - theorel - Mason
10 - Galzria - 1-Shot Cop
11 - yuma - Mason
12 - Axxle - 1-Shot Vig
13 – raerae - Innocent Child
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I was really hoping that I would at some point get to L-1 and then drop the claim... would have been much more dramatic that way. But this way is good too...
We should have done it my way then, heh.
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Game Setup:
MMM (2 Masons + 1 IC) = Theorel, Yuma, and Raerae.
D (Doctor) = Robz
V (1-shot Vig) = Axxle
C (1-shot Cop) = Galzria
T (1 Goon, 1 Roleblocker, 1 Godfather, 1 SK) = Lekkit, Frisk, ????, Cuzz
List:
1 – Robz888 - Doctor
2 – Jimmmmm
3 - cayvie
4 - Eevee - VT
5 - Captain_Frisk - Roleblocker
6 - Shraeye
7 - Lekkit - Goon
8 - Cuzz - Serial Killer
9 - theorel - Mason
10 - Galzria - 1-Shot Cop
11 - yuma - Mason
12 - Axxle - 1-Shot Vig
13 – raerae - Innocent Child
Fix'd Tag.
Also, extracting:
2 – Jimmmmm
3 - cayvie
6 - Shraeye
is all that's left.
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So we win? Just have to see how many days we can do it in?
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Cayvie, what was the PM you received N1? Who are you? (Don't have to mod-quote it. Just paraphrase).
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So we win? Just have to see how many days we can do it in?
Yep, pretty much.
Gonna wait for everybody to come through the thread and process this information, and give time for claim verifications and counters, but it won't matter. Scum can't counter-claim. If the counter a "double-letter" roll, we lynch them over the Masons (since Mason can't be faked). If they claim a "single-letter" roll, it's them or me - since we're the only possible variables in the setup at that point.
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theorel and I are masons. Eevee this explains your weird PM... we also sent one to cayvie.
Apparently that is one of our powers
Good lord that's awesome.
I'll await verification from Theorel, and any counter-claims that might come out, but I'll post the setup before then, and alter based on what happens.
yeah, basically we are left with cayvie, jimmm and shraeye. My bet is on shraeye
I agree with this, btw. Followed by Jimmmmm, then Cayvie.
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theorel and I are masons. Eevee this explains your weird PM... we also sent one to cayvie.
Apparently that is one of our powers
Good lord that's awesome.
I'll await verification from Theorel, and any counter-claims that might come out, but I'll post the setup before then, and alter based on what happens.
yeah, basically we are left with cayvie, jimmm and shraeye. My bet is on shraeye
I agree with this, btw. Followed by Jimmmmm, then Cayvie.
Actually, Cayvie, then Jimmmm. I don't think Scum!Jimmm would've actively chosen to put Scum!Lekkit at L-1. He would've not voted, or hammered Eevee (likely just not-voted).
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I added 24 hours to the guaranteed 3 days to account for Christmas. It's in the D3 opening post..
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post counts for:
cayvie: 76
shraeye: 54
jimmm: 90
compared to ICs:
Galz: 167
yuma: 126
theorel: 49
eevee: 117
Axxle: 112
except for theorel, who always has a lower post count all of the "potential scum" have lower post counts than the "certainly not scum" and look! shraeye has the lowest amount out of any of them.
I would really like this to be town's first flawless win, I think shraeye is the best bet for accomplishing that.
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I agree. My order choice is Shraeye -> Cayvie -> Jimmm.
At this point I'm waiting to hear from each, and Theorel.
From Cayvie, I want to hear about the PM she should've received from you guys.
Theorel I just want to verify your claim.
Jimmm/Shraeye I just want to know why they think we should lynch the other or Cayvie over themselves.
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Haven't fully caught up, but verifying mason-claim real quick.
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post counts for:
cayvie: 76
shraeye: 54
jimmm: 90
compared to ICs:
Galz: 167
yuma: 126
theorel: 49
eevee: 117
Axxle: 112
except for theorel, who always has a lower post count all of the "potential scum" have lower post counts than the "certainly not scum" and look! shraeye has the lowest amount out of any of them.
I would really like this to be town's first flawless win, I think shraeye is the best bet for accomplishing that.
Regarding post counts, remember that I was here for exactly one RL day of day1. A day in which i locked onto Lekkit and demanded his lynch.
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Additionally, why is Eevee cleared?
You do realize that the last scum is a Godfather, right?
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I am suspicious of shraeye, but I'm also pretty suspicious of cayvie at this point. Because honestly I expected town to react like Eevee did to "remembering" his name, and cayvie didn't. There are other explanations, and I'd like cayvie to name-claim (as yuma mentioned).
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Additionally, why is Eevee cleared?
You do realize that the last scum is a Godfather, right?
yes, but would you rather have us lynch someone who hasn't been investigated first? That is just plain stupid...
remember that eevee claimed VT way back on Day 1--scum probably would have claimed a role to cause chaos at that point--and was the other major wagon day 1. Scum would have played a pretty horrible game to let two of their players become the focal point of attention day 1. Possible, but unlikely.
And yes I know that day 1 you subbed in.... So did Galz.... but that isn't the reason I am voting for you. I am voting for you because of your reaction to claiming--which you probably realized would do you in--and your redirection from Frisk/Robz yesterday. If you aren't scum... blast we didn't win flawlessly....
And if by some craziness eevee is scum, well... I don't have an answer to that. But to lynch eevee before the rest of you doesn't make much sense.
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
CF's behavior all but guarantees that Eevee is town. He wouldn't try to stop lekkit's lynch so scummily in order to lynch his godfather.
I found the answer to the Eevee question. I'm fairly sure he's town. In rereading day 2, I am also fairly sure Jimmm is town. Cayvie is the final baddie, I'm sure of it. Will post analysis when I'm fully done with reread.
@yuma As I said about my reaction to claiming, that is and will be my reaction to all claiming as town or scum. I absolutely hate negative claiming, it asserts by force that you know that a claim is right by somebody, and so you force it out of them. Each person has the right to make the decision to claim or not claim for themselves.
I didn't redirect from Frisk yesterday, I straight up defended him. He looked towny to me, and I explained why. You and Axxle also looked towny to me and I said I would only be minorly ok with theorel's lynch, but preferred looking on wagon. So I had two good reads (you/axxle), and two bad ones (Frisk/theorel). When i get townreads, I defend them. I'm not going to apologize for my play yesterday because I directed us at Cuzz who was still scum, though not mafia. Axxle vigged the mafia suspect, so we have an awesome chance to play flawlessly. Mislynching shraeye when he's town is a very common theme it seems.
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mmmm now i'm nervous about you, galz
i guess you're probably still town from your day 1 behavior.
oh!
Eevee is guaranteed to either be VT or Godfather. or lying as town, i guess.
CF's behavior all but guarantees that Eevee is town. He wouldn't try to stop lekkit's lynch so scummily in order to lynch his godfather.
I found the answer to the Eevee question. I'm fairly sure he's town. In rereading day 2, I am also fairly sure Jimmm is town. Cayvie is the final baddie, I'm sure of it. Will post analysis when I'm fully done with reread.
@yuma As I said about my reaction to claiming, that is and will be my reaction to all claiming as town or scum. I absolutely hate negative claiming, it asserts by force that you know that a claim is right by somebody, and so you force it out of them. Each person has the right to make the decision to claim or not claim for themselves.
I didn't redirect from Frisk yesterday, I straight up defended him. He looked towny to me, and I explained why. You and Axxle also looked towny to me and I said I would only be minorly ok with theorel's lynch, but preferred looking on wagon. So I had two good reads (you/axxle), and two bad ones (Frisk/theorel). When i get townreads, I defend them. I'm not going to apologize for my play yesterday because I directed us at Cuzz who was still scum, though not mafia. Axxle vigged the mafia suspect, so we have an awesome chance to play flawlessly. Mislynching shraeye when he's town is a very common theme it seems.
so where would you rather go? cayvie or Jimmm?
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Shraeye, please list the times that fit "mislynching Shraeye seems to be a common theme".
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I think scum is more likely
cayvie > shraeye >> jimmm >>> eevee
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Havent reread though.
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I agree completely, but it's the weekend, and... Yeah. I'm treasure hunting, leave me alone!
In all seriousness, I'm not comfortable with the Axxle lynch. Yes, I understand LALL - it was a primary focus on Lekkit.
... But Lekkit was "acti-lurking". He was here to "defend" himself when criticism was leveled. Axxle is just MIA from many of his Mafia games. I'm sure it's RL related, but it's very likely NOT "Mafia" related. That is to say, much like ftl in M-XI, he COULD be Mafia, but his inactivity is itself not scummy.
I would personally rather focus on Throrw/CF/Yuma.
Incidentally, I would not be surprised to find scum trying to push LALL on Axxle (if he's town) as an "excusable" town lynch. As such, FoS Yuma and Theorel as per the latest votrcount. I don't think both of you are scum, but would not be surprised if one was.
Although having been on one likely scum wagon (Eevee), it's very possible scum would know they need to "play it safe" and not be too aggressive towards a second town wagon/lynch. As such, and for now, Vote: Frisk
Now. Time to stop drunk posting, and instead go make cookies (again).
hmm
is your argument against frisk that
1) eevee is probably scum
2) if eevee is scum, frisk is probably scum?
When cayvie misreads Galz's case on Frisk early on, she immediately tries to derail it as not making sense.
Another point regarding Cayvie's interaction with the Lekkit wagon, she was in one of the positions that I thought scum would be on if trapped on the Lekkit wagon when it suddenly took off. This is one of the reason I ripped into cuzz, who surprised me by flipping SK instead of mafia. Jimmmm's position as bringing lekkit to L-1 and my position as the wagon driver were much more towny, active roles in the day 1 lekkit lynch.
Frisk is one of those people I feel like are always slightly scummy. Of course, he always was scum for quite a bit there. I can see where Galzria is coming from in the "dragging the Lekkit lynch" case.
I'm curious where Cuzz is; he's posted twice this gameday, once to apologize for being behind. I'd like to read his promised analysis of yuma--there's a player I can never get a read on.
Here's cayvie on Frisk again. This happened after raerae called cayvie out for not being around much. At this time there was a lot of suspicion on Frisk as I recall. This is what looks to me like a classic redirect, she acknowledges that Frisk looks scummy, then tries to blow it off and focus elsewhere. All i have for you to lynch cayvie over me on this argument is that I was very direct and open with my townread on Frisk and my reasons for it. I feel scum would be better served not vocally expressing townreads on their partners.
But what really gets me, is that cayvie seems to express suspicion on cuzz, for not coming in with analysis on yuma. But when it comes to soft deadline time cayvie's line is
I don't even know right now. My reads are going haywire.
So ends the day without her vote on Cuzz, who's alignment from cayvie's perspective was not-mafia and could likely be town. I was willing to lead the charge on Cuzz who was looking super scummy to me, and I'm proud that I was right. From a mafioso's perspective though, there's reason to avoid lynches that could hit town. Hence cayvie's statement about haywire reads and not voting for Cuzz.
If yuma insists on tunnelling me as he is, we can still win. I'm fine going down today if town wants to throw out a flawless victory, but you absolutely have to lynch cayvie tomorrow.
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Shraeye, please list the times that fit "mislynching Shraeye seems to be a common theme".
It occured in MXVI very recently.
I was mislynched when faced with a possible flawless town-victory in ZM2. I was mislynched in ZM3 where mafia went on to win, and in Blitz5 where mafia went on to win as well. I was cruising to a mislynch in MXI until cuzz/morgrim stepped in and cleared me. Except for MXI where I got cleared, I have never survived to the end of the game as town.
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So according to the leaderboard (not sure quite how up to date it is), you've played 9 games. Twice as scum. You've been mislynched 3 times, NK'd 3 times, and have survived 3 times.
You lived to the end of M-XI, by the way, as town.
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((That counts normal games and Blitz. Not RMMM or BM).
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Vote: cayvie
Won't be around a ton the next few days. Don't think scum would bother as much as shraeye is doing since they've lost anyway.
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So according to the leaderboard (not sure quite how up to date it is), you've played 9 games. Twice as scum. You've been mislynched 3 times, NK'd 3 times, and have survived 3 times.
You lived to the end of M-XI, by the way, as town.
That's exactly what I'm saying, all my survivals are as scum. (Hydras, RMM3, Blitz6). I'm adding a data point from a currently running game since it's fresh in my mind, another mislynch.
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So according to the leaderboard (not sure quite how up to date it is), you've played 9 games. Twice as scum. You've been mislynched 3 times, NK'd 3 times, and have survived 3 times.
You lived to the end of M-XI, by the way, as town.
I misread your last statement, so disregard my last here.
My point though, is that midlynched being a "common occurrence" for you doesn't exactly seem to fit when you've been mislynched in 3 games out of 9.
By the same token, I could argue that if you don't get lynched and continue to live, you're usually scum. Doesn't make the argument all that valid or relevant though.
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alright, I go vote: cayvie
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Hey, town wins regardless, but I'll be sad to throw away a perfect win if we're wrong. Still, I'm game. Vote: Cayvie
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We've got a higher chance of getting the perfect victory by voting cayvie than we do by voting shraeye for sure.
vote: cayvie
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Hey, town wins regardless, but I'll be sad to throw away a perfect win if we're wrong. Still, I'm game. Vote: Cayvie
exactly... that and shraeye's catching up posts sounded pretty townie to me...
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and now we need one more: eevee, jimmm, theorel?
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I will say this about Cayvie: I simply am incapable of reading her. She's never townie, but she's never scummy either. Go back and read my D1 review and thoughts on her. I come up completely blank. So I wouldn't be surprised to see she's scum. The biggest thing against her here is that it's almost certainly her or Shraeye, and Cayvie didn't respond to the Mason's power, which Eevee did. That's actually pretty incriminating in my mind.
I also don't have a huge scum read on Shraeye. I never did put an actual case together. I just wanted to push him to get a response. Yes, I could see Scum!Shraeye playing D1 just like he did (as I pointed out yesterday), but it wasn't like a slamdunk case, and honestly so could Town!Shraeye.
I actually feel decent about this lynch choice. At least as good if as if we were lynching Shraeye, and probably even a little bit better. So yeah. First ever Perfect Town victory? Fingers crossed.
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and theorel is here! What do you have to say fellow mason?
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Caught up, sounds good to me, vote: cayvie.
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and no one is around to provide the flip...
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FoS Mods.
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Is Shraeye around? You're the next lynch dude if Cayvie is town, so you could just own up now if scum. I'll still congratulate you on pushing us a day.
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So then, now we wait...
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Is Shraeye around? You're the next lynch dude if Cayvie is town, so you could just own up now if scum. I'll still congratulate you on pushing us a day.
Still around; still towny. I really think we did it just now.
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Well Ash?
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Thread Locked
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D3 Final Vote Count
Cayvie (5): Axxle, yuma, Galzria, shraeye, theorel
Not Voting (1): Cayvie, Jimmmmm, Eevee
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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With their beloved Dawn gone, the rest of the group buckled down and decided to figure it out, once and for all. It took them little time to find someone else to blame for the horrible deaths.
They took Cayvie by the arms and pulled him down, pummeling him with their fists, books, whatever they could find. When it was done, they pulled off his jacket and searched his pockets.
Cayvie was Mayor Wilkins, the Big Bad Godfather.
Town wins flawlessly!
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PMs and all that when I have more time, just wanted to let you guys have the flip.
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Freaking awesome.
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Yay!!!
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Mod QT: http://quicktopic.com/48/H/hsQUW5E8LmNLX
Big Bad QT: http://quicktopic.com/48/H/mKShQ8CzMtHZM
Masons QT: http://quicktopic.com/48/H/cUJBZDhXryP
Speccy QT: http://quicktopic.com/48/H/e4ceMkHRP3j
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@Galz, yuma
thanks for not tunnelling in on me too hard, listening to reason, and voting cayvie. It feels good to be believed.
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Set up error and other stuff, including Night Actions, in Mod QT.
Theo was roleblocked, so cayvie didn't get the N1 reminder.
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Nice!
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@Galz, yuma
thanks for not tunnelling in on me too hard, listening to reason, and voting cayvie. It feels good to be believed.
part of it was wanting to see and gauge your reaction, you did well
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I'm rooting for yuma and the rest of his team now.
from Cuzz in the QT... Thanks for your... support Cuzz
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I'm rooting for yuma and the rest of his team now.
from Cuzz in the QT... Thanks for your... support Cuzz
Haha, I figured for one game I'd try the super unreasonably certain tunneling attitude. It does not suit me.
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And I expected this game to go on longer, so I apologize that my only post in the QT sounds so pissy.
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This was a rough game for mafia.
A day 1 lynch is never easy to recover from.
Losing a player to an /out made it worse.
And the town PRs totally devastated any remaining chance that scum had.
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Truly impressive. With an SK and three Mafia, only two town deaths.
Actually, I suppose this is flawless, but not perfect.
Perfect would be lynching SK D1, Doctoring the Mafia kill, and Vig'ing 1 Mafia, leaving two. D2, lynch Mafia, 1 NK on town. D3 lynch last Mafia.
..... Still, damn awesome
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thanks for modding ash (and volt/jorbles)!
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thanks for modding ash (and volt/jorbles)!
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Feel free to quote your PMs to save me the trouble.
Cop was Xander
Masons were Tara and Willow
Living VTs were Angel and Spike
Axxle was Buffy (vig)
Anyone I am forgetting?
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Only mafia knew flavor names. Had a mason spell gone through on mafia, I would have provided a fake claim name (Oz probably, then Wesley?).
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Setup error was me rolling too many numbers. Fix was downgrading vig to 1-shot and upgrading a goon to godfather, which got us a verifiable setup.
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Thanks for modding ash! I like this setup.
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The many possibilities are fun, but being able to solve it so quickly was unexpected. Lynching baddies will do that.
Special recognition for Robz, dying twice on consecutive nights but neither from mafia...SK N1 and Vig N2.
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I was REALLY hoping that Robz would be a N1 to a Vig. ;D
Coincidentally, did you allow the Mafia to kill N1?
I usually go with assume any Mafia can make three order for another.
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I was REALLY hoping that Robz would be a N1 to a Vig. ;D
Coincidentally, did you allow the Mafia to kill N1?
I usually go with assume any Mafia can make three order for another.
Yes, but they tried to kill you, the Doctor target.
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I was REALLY hoping that Robz would be a N1 to a Vig. ;D
Coincidentally, did you allow the Mafia to kill N1?
I usually go with assume any Mafia can make three order for another.
Yes, but they tried to kill you, the Doctor target.
Wow, props to Robz for doctoring me N1 instead of Raerae then.
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Hey go us! Well, you guys. Although, I told you cayvie was scummy!
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Hey go us! Well, you guys. Although, I told you cayvie was scummy!
Hey Jimmmm, you were town, and obvtown! Good job!
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MVP?
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Xander is such an awesome name. Never watched the show, but glad I got that.
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I was REALLY hoping that Robz would be a N1 to a Vig. ;D
Coincidentally, did you allow the Mafia to kill N1?
I usually go with assume any Mafia can make three order for another.
Yes, but they tried to kill you, the Doctor target.
Wow, props to Robz for doctoring me N1 instead of Raerae then.
Yeah, seriously.
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MVP?
You or yuma certainly.
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A few nominations for MVP...
Axxle for his vig shot...
Robz for his doctoring...
Galz for being Galz...
Raerae for impressive IC work as a newbie--her soft deadlines really helped
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MVP?
You or yuma certainly.
I did nothing that deserved MVP credit, but thank you for the compliment
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Hey go us! Well, you guys. Although, I told you cayvie was scummy!
Hey Jimmmm, you were town, and obvtown! Good job!
Cheers. Just didn't contribute as much as I should have. Need to be smarter about how many games I am in, and more committed to the ones I'm in.
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I think the most satisfying part of this game was getting theorel his first fds mafia win. (long, long overdue for such a high quality player)
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Cuzz PM:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Serial Killer
Alignment: None
You wake up on the floor. You ask yourself: Where am I? Who am I? Why am I so angry? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? You hate magic shops. And who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell none of them is on your side…and you hate faces...
Welcome Cuzz, you are a Serial Killer.
Abilities:
Pregame, you must choose to be either Investigation Immune or 1-Shot Bulletproof.
Each night phase, you may select a player in the game to nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
VT PM:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Vanilla Townie
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome Abra655, you are a Vanilla Scooby Gang.
Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote; you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
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Raerae:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Town Innocent Child
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome raerae, you are the Scooby Gang Innocent Child.
Abilities:
At the start of Day 1, the moderator of the game will announce you as an Innocent Child, confirming you as town.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Mason PM:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Town Mason
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome theorel, you are a Scooby Gang Mason along with your partner, yuma.
Abilities:
You are confirmed town to your mason partner, and vice versa. You are permitted to talk to your partner during pregame and nights here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/cUJBZDhXryP.
Additionally, each night phase, either you or your partner may choose one player in the game on whom to cast a spell to help them remember who they are. You or your partner will not be told if the spell worked, or the result.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
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Robz doc PM:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Town Doctor
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome Robz888, you are the Scooby Gang Doctor.
Abilities:
Each night phase, you may protect one player in the game from one nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Joth/Galz:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Town 1-Shot Cop
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome jotheonah, you are the Scooby Gang 1-Shot Cop.
Abilities:
Once at night, you may investigate a player in the game by sending the mod a PM. You will get results back in the form of “Town,” “Antitown,” or “No Result.”
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
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Axxle, downgraded to 1-shot during D1 to repair setup:
Flavour name: ???
Role name: Town Vigilante
Alignment: Scooby Gang
Where am I? Who am I? You look around and see oddities, dusty tomes, and a cash register. A magic shop? Who are these people all around me? Looking at their faces, you can tell not all of them are on your side…
Welcome Axxle, you are the Scooby Gang Vigilante.
Abilities:
Each night, you may select a player in the game to target for a night kill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
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Lekkit:
Flavor name: The Master
Role name: Mafia Goon
Alignment: Big Bad
You stumble across the threshold into the Magic Box to find the Scooby Gang sprawled out on the floor, unconscious. You are about to kill them all one by one when you stop and think, why not have some fun with this? You lay down among them and close your eyes…
Welcome Lekkit, you are a Big Bad Goon, along with your partners, Cayvie and Captain_Frisk.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage and nights, you may talk with your partners here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/mKShQ8CzMtHZM
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or one of your partners may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
CF/Robz2:
Flavor name: Glorificus
Role name: Mafia Roleblocker
Alignment: Big Bad
You stride into the Magic Box, your Goons leading the way. You see the Scooby Gang sprawled out on the floor, unconscious. You are about to kill them all one by one when you stop and think, why not have some fun with this? You lay down among them and close your eyes…
Welcome Captain_Frisk, you are a Big Bad Roleblocker, along with your partners, Lekkit and Cayvie.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage and nights, you may talk with your partners here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/mKShQ8CzMtHZM
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or one of your partners may perform the factional kill.
Role block: Each night phase, you individually may perform a roleblock on another player in the game. You cannot block and kill the same night.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
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Cayvie, upgraded to Godfather D1 to fix setup:
Flavor name: Mayor Wilkins
Role name: Mafia Goon
Alignment: Big Bad
You stumble across the threshold into the Magic Box to find the Scooby Gang sprawled out on the floor, unconscious. You are about to kill them all one by one when you stop and think, why not have some fun with this? You lay down among them and close your eyes…
Welcome cayvie, you are a Big Bad Goon, along with your partners, Lekkit and Captain_Frisk.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage and nights, you may talk with your partners here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/mKShQ8CzMtHZM
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or one of your partners may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
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Also, to Cayvie:
I'm sorry we lynched you over a weekend, when you're always V/LA and unable to respond. I feel bad for not even allowing you the chance at saving a win, or even another day, for your team. Scum or town, it's not nice to take any chance out of the hands of the player.
That said, I'm sure you'll understand that from the IC perspective, the game was solved regardless. And even the best cases in the world were going to result in either your lynch, or Shraeye's. There wasn't a way to win for scum anymore at that point, so even giving you the chance to argue your case could only have bought you a single Day.
Hopefully you won't be too mad at us for being mean and lynching you without giving you any opportunity to defend yourself.
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That's all the PMs. Eevee copied her awakening spell one before.
Night 1:
Galzria cops Eevee.
Cuzz kills Robz888.
Robz888 doctors Galzria.
Cayvie shoots Galzria.
CF role blocks theorel.
Theorel casts awakening spell on Cayvie.
Axxle does not shoot.
Night 2:
Robz888 roleblocks Jimmmmm.
Cayvie shoots raerae.
Axxle shoots Robz888.
Yuma casts awakening spell on Eevee.
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
Yeah, that simply wasn't going to happen, unfortunately. Early spots on the Lekkit wagon were far more suspicious than Jimmm, who actively choose to put him to L-1. Jimmm would've been the last to die amongst the three.
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I plan on using C9++ for my Samurai and Ninjas game, which is at XXV or so on the queue. With the correct number of rolls, of course.
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Truly impressive. With an SK and three Mafia, only two town deaths.
Actually, I suppose this is flawless, but not perfect.
Perfect would be lynching SK D1, Doctoring the Mafia kill, and Vig'ing 1 Mafia, leaving two. D2, lynch Mafia, 1 NK on town. D3 lynch last Mafia.
..... Still, damn awesome
I was thinking of vigging CF N1 too :P
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Just read the last bits of the game. My main thought for some reason is that I think it'd be super fun for me to self-lynch to bring the game closer to ending.
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Just read the last bits of the game. My main thought for some reason is that I think it'd be super fun for me to self-lynch to bring the game closer to ending.
The reason that's bad is it gives Cayvie another kill, changing the scope of voices alive that she needs to convince.
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Well true. I think we pretty much had it won as long as we lynched me, shraeye and cayvie though.
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Nice job, town! And I am still part of the town, sort of :)
My N1 Doctoring of Galz is actually one of the first times I've used a PR to any effect (despite drawing PRs in more than 70% of my games--in fact, I drew PR in this game twice). So that makes me happy.
Anyway, really nicely done, guys.
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I was surprised and impressed that you saved Galz and not raerae. I guess Galz is a pretty great Townie though.
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Yeah, I outsmarted the mafia there, didn't I? My one moment in the sun.
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Yeah, I outsmarted the mafia there, didn't I? My one moment in the sun.
Well, what happened afterwards is a pretty good rationale for your decision. If Galz is town, town wants him to live.
Nice win yay us. I'm afraid I didnt do much other than convincing galz to hammer Lekkit over me, but everyone has weaker games from time to time I guess. Glad it didnt matter!
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I wasn't really happy when CF tried to stop my wagon. I knew I was getting lynched that day or the next, if I was still alive, and bussing me hard would've been much better. Much, much better.
As I said earlier, I think it's a problem when people from different time zones gets called out for lurking. More specifically when it's in the lines of "just low post count". Overall I think people focus more on post count than on post content. I'm not mad that I got lynched, though. I could've played that better. I am quite new to mafia, though. :)
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i guess that happened
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
i actually thought it was more feasible to try to get galz lynched
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
i actually thought it was more feasible to try to get galz lynched
Had I been alive I might have been a pretty easy sell on that, Cayvie. Glad I wasn't!
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I think Galz is surely MVP here. The day1 switch to Lekkit being pretty key to the win.
Thanks for my first win, I'll see you guys after the holidays :)
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Thanks for my first win
Wait.... What? Really?
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
i actually thought it was more feasible to try to get galz lynched
As the Lylo lynch, you mean? If it was before Lylo, his cop flip would have sunk you, I think.
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Jorbles, regarding your post #86 in the Mod QT:
I most certainly wasn't eating crow on Cuzz's lynch! I was Mafia hunting, not scum hunting, and I correctly identified the Mafia and Not!Mafia between Cuzz and Frisk!
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Thanks for my first win
Wait.... What? Really?
Yep, that even counts bastard games.
I was in MIV where I died N1 as IC (and town went on to lose), MVI as a copped werewolf, MVIII you voted me for the loss over O, MXII Robz voted me for the loss, MXI (which I barely count since I tried to replace out, but I really shouldn't have claimed commuter after yuma claimed hider that was dumb), and this one.
Plus BMIII where I apparently convinced eHalcyon to suicide-bomb me night 1, and BMV where I played an excellent pro-town game by giving you felix felicis, and then switched sides...I almost kind of drew that one (since we had no NK) except cayvie resurrected O for the win.
So, I mean it's not like I've played that many games, but I had a nice losing-streak going. Actually I was pretty excited start of this game to be a mason since it meant I couldn't be voted for the loss...but then it didn't actually matter because you played too well :P
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Cayvie needed to get Shraeye and Jimmmmm lynched first, then convince you Eevee was the Godfather.
Super tough spot.
i actually thought it was more feasible to try to get galz lynched
As the Lylo lynch, you mean? If it was before Lylo, his cop flip would have sunk you, I think.
yep.
the plan was 1) hope there were a bunch of townies (no masons) and 2) lynch townies until lylo, then lynch galz.
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I've lost every game I've been in. :)
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Popping in to suggest some of the people from this game, who clearly like TV/scifi flavor games, come sign up for my DS9 game. I think it's gonna be good, and it needs 6 more ins!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6103.0
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If I had known this would be over so fast, I wouldn't have needed to replace out.
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Sorry to necro this thread, but my wife and I have started watching Buffy and Oh My Goodness It Is Amazing!
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Have you seen this episode yet?
Maybe I need to do Buffymafia II.
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Sorry to necro this thread, but my wife and I have started watching Buffy and Oh My Goodness It Is Amazing!
Funny, I also started watching ita few months ago (I had seen random episodes on TV so I knew some stuff but it was dubbed and I didn't remember most of it). It is really good, at least seasons 2 and 3 (I'm midway through season 4 right now, which is not as good so far).
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Have you seen this episode yet?
Maybe I need to do Buffymafia II.
I watched it when this game ran but in complete isolation--and then we watched the next one because it was the musical episode and really liked them, but didn't get a lot of the context and stuff. Those types of episodes quickly have become my favorite (the alternate reality episode or the Halloween episode where people become what they were dressed up as) and really show the great range of abilities in the actors. My wife and I decided that we like Buffy, but it is the people around her that make the show amazing, Giles and Willow especially.
And yes. Yes you do.
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Have you seen this episode yet?
Maybe I need to do Buffymafia II.
I'm in!