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Author Topic: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- GAME OVER, TOWN WINS  (Read 318881 times)

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ibgtennis

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Can someone do their best to sum up the Shraeye wagon? It's damn tough going through 32 pages of posts and quotes and arriving at a coherent place.
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TheMunch

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So, hey guys.  I dont know if you know this but there are people in this game (me) who haven't participated in other games (still me) and for those people (me again) it can be very difficult to see why those old games affect this one.  One main reason: I give zero shits how people played in other games.  People can change the way they play.  If I had played in previous games, I would exploit all of you by just playing in the way that you guys think I do as town, since apparently thats all I need to do to convince you people that I are town.  Seriously guys, you can be better than this.  There is plenty to talk about.  So lets do that.

To get the ball rolling, I did an entire reread.  Surprise surprise, I still find eHunt and Yuma pretty scummy.  Vote: O  "But wait!" you say, "O is neither eHunt or Yuma."  You would all be correct.  O is in fact not ehunt and Yuma but I really find him to be a terrible player.  I have called him out on it before but I am tired of his holier-than-thou attitude.  If you are above contributing to this game, dont play it, and I'll help you with that regard.  Vote: O (Protip: we're not friends).

But on subject: ehunt and Yuma.  They were the 2 transgressors of what I believe to be my biggest pet peeve: posting something that too strongly tries to implicate yourself as town.  eHunt did it first and Yuma second.  I commented on both of them when it happened and no one really seemed to care:
If I just blindly type things and one of them gets misperceived as a scumslip, that's really bad for town.
I dont like that you use the word "misperceived."  Feels like you are trying too hard to plant that you are town so that when you make a scumslip it would be a mistake to act on it.  Subtle, but I dont like it.
But that isn't the point, if that is correct, then I made a mistake in reading her post and now town is going to pay the consequences of it if I get lynched. Sorry.

Yuma was trying to defend a million accusations and let this bad boy slip.  I am fresher than a baby's bottom and even I was not impressed by this line.  I feel like its way over the top to try to get everyone invested with you not being lynched.  You said "hey this is a huge mistake to kill me day 1... you'll be sorry," on the day where more likely than not we are going to kill town anyway and I honestly dont feel you'd be a huge loss.  I dont like being told the defense of "i'm too important to town to kill" and I've already called out, I believe, ehunt for doing the same thing.  It seems like a drastic overraction and quite quite scummy.  You get my Vote: Yuma.
This coupled with what I find to be just sloppy play from both of them, namely very hollow arguments and not-so-subtle topic changes (I dont have direct evidence of these, just the impression I got), makes me really want to keep an eye on them.



Secondly, there has been a lot thats said that has gotten no attention because of Eevee's bombdrop of the cult knowledge.  Thats all well and good but Shraeye makes a solid post on watno (who I would agree did not give me the towniest of reads on my reread).  Its content-filled post like these that need to be addressed and I am super suspicious of everyone that is participating but not actually addressing content posts and the individuals who those posts call into question (I'm still not letting lurkers off the hook).  I'll say it again: I do not consider old games to ever be relevent, throwing around M followed by some roman numeral doesn't make you cool; It makes you narrow minded in the sense that you cant see a world where any one is ever capable of changing the way they act and think.  You are embarrassing yourselves and you can do better.
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shraeye

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Can someone do their best to sum up the Shraeye wagon? It's damn tough going through 32 pages of posts and quotes and arriving at a coherent place.
No problem.  First I did stuff.  Then idiots decided to act idiotic, so they voted for me.  Then enough people pointed out that they were idiotic that those voters eventually backed off.  Because nobody likes looking like an idiot.  Except watno.  He's content to still claim I've contributed no content yet.  Despite the content that I've contributed.  Apparently he loves looking like an idiot.
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jotheonah

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*facepalms at the guy who says to ignore other games in the game where the flavor is based on people's metas from previous games*
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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O

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.
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O

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as mafia*
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TheMunch

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*facepalms at the guy who says to ignore other games in the game where the flavor is based on people's metas from previous games*

True.  But that flavor is coming from Robz.  I see lots of people talk about their specific participation in games or some back-patting-post-gamey kind of chat.  If you really want to use the flavor as an argument, you'd have to bring to the table how Robz sees these people.  There might be very broad archetypes that people are known for, but that doesn't mean quoting specific old games.  But thats not even whats happening.  People throw around those old games as if they have encyclopedic knowledge of what transpired in those games.  From what I've seen of THIS game, no one is so perfect and all knowing and keeping every single detail of THIS game straight to even hint at indicating that they could reference M-followed-by-roman-numerals and be flawless with their analysis.  Because the roles may or may not be based on peoples archetypes, saying "X isn't play like X played when he played town."  THAT has no baring.  What does have baring is what Shraeye discussed about Axxle's justification for him being the double poster based on previous games.  THAT is flavor, not X isn't playing like X.
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TheMunch

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.
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shraeye

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I agree that Grujah really stands out for not posting much. Ditto for Axxle and ibgtennis. Glad to see O participating more now. I'm not sure any of the votes on him are warranted at the moment. I'm actually curious to hear what shraeye thinks of O now, since he made a point to vote for O in every damn post.

I still think O is not "participating enough."  He's finally started posting, but my main issue with him was his unwillingness to take positions on arguments (he's done this a bit now, and I've noticed) and to actually provide explanations and arguments (I haven't seen so much regarding this).  O is a really good mafia player, so I really want to hear his explanations on things. 

Until he starts putting up some serious content, and I've seen him do it before (even on day 1), I will classify him as still "lurking".  This is because in addition to being unhelpful in adding information about the alignment of other players, he is protecting himself from having his alignment discovered by anybody after a lynch.  This information is key, it is all town has to try to win the game against an informed mafia, and this cult that is apparently popping up.

sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.
Like I said, you are very good at mafia, and good at winning as scum.  If you're town here I want you to contribute to my win as well.  If you're scum, I want to prevent you from increasing that win-rate.  You style of play is super O-helping, but not super-town unless you happen to be town.  It's possible that you're town.  But it's also possible that you aren't town.
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Dsell

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.

Man, quit being a jerk. He's actually a really solid mafia player and how he plays day one of a game of forum mafia really, really has no bearing on what kind of person he is.
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"Quiet you, you'll lynch Dsell when I'm good and ready" - Insomniac


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shraeye

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.
I fixed this up for him, so that people don't make knee-jerk reactions based on his vitriol.  He makes an incredibly valid point.
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Eevee

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@TheMunch
I understand listening us talking about our previous games can be frustrating, but you are probably pretty alone with that opinion. Previous games are very important, and faking certain behavior is harder than you think. Also keep it cool, O is okay.  :) No need to get personal, just a game!

I don't explicitly know there is a cult. I know there exists a faction that has night talk, and that something* would happen if I got recruited into it.

*I know what this something is, but it's not relevant here.
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cayvie

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.
I fixed this up for him, so that people don't make knee-jerk reactions based on his vitriol.  He makes an incredibly valid point.

He does? Well, now that you've changed his words.

Pretty sure O was directly responding to TheMunch calling him a "terrible player".

So, hey guys.  I dont know if you know this but there are people in this game (me) who haven't participated in other games (still me) and for those people (me again) it can be very difficult to see why those old games affect this one.  One main reason: I give zero shits how people played in other games.  People can change the way they play.

Please demonstrate!
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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jotheonah

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Ok, this has taken on a disturbing "newbie vs vet" tone that I don't think is in the interests of fun play.

Message received that the veteran players are being too clubhousey with unnecessary references to past games. Let's try to be a welcoming community.

Also, let's keep the tone civil and the personal attacks to non-existent, if you all don't mind. I learned early on (specific reference omitted) that the game gets a lot less fun if people get RL feelings hurt.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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shraeye

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.
I fixed this up for him, so that people don't make knee-jerk reactions based on his vitriol.  He makes an incredibly valid point.

He does? Well, now that you've changed his words.

Pretty sure O was directly responding to TheMunch calling him a "terrible player".

So, hey guys.  I dont know if you know this but there are people in this game (me) who haven't participated in other games (still me) and for those people (me again) it can be very difficult to see why those old games affect this one.  One main reason: I give zero shits how people played in other games.  People can change the way they play.

Please demonstrate!

I changed absolutely no words.  I crossed out his personal attacks, and highlighted the serious point he made.  O has a high-win rate.  But that doesn't make him any more or less towny in this game.
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cayvie

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Okay, but nobody was saying it did.
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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O

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My winrate does not imply I am more townie in the slightest. Only my town-aligned role PM did that. My winrate implies that somehow, despite pissing off at least 5 people per game, I am not a terrible player.
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cayvie

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And also, shraeye, if you want people to read your posts, maybe you should refrain from being directly hostile to your audience?

Like, who wants to read stuff like

So he talks again about one of my posts #369, in which I defended myself, had to finally explain sarcasm to the slower members of our audience, and speculated about the double vote..
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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O

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And also, shraeye, if you want people to read your posts, maybe you should refrain from being directly hostile to your audience?

Like, who wants to read stuff like

So he talks again about one of my posts #369, in which I defended myself, had to finally explain sarcasm to the slower members of our audience, and speculated about the double vote..

I'm going to not bait and provoke hell here and just say that sometimes witty statements aren't as witty on the reread. I personally review carefully all of my jackassery before posting to make sure it is up to my standards in wit (basically if you're going to be mean, which you really really shouldn't, only be mean in jest).
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jotheonah

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inb4 someone starts a "Decline of civility in forum mafia" thread.  ;)
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Insomniac

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FWIW I like your posting style O it always gets people talking.
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

Dsell

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sigh, so many times I get yelled at for being a terrible mafia player. Yet I have the second highest winrate for frequent players while having 4 stints of mafia. Must get really lucky.

I'm not calling you a terrible mafia player; I'm calling you a terrible human being.  Get off your high horse.  You are not infallible.  Your winrate doesn't make you more or less town.

Man, quit being a jerk. He's actually a really solid mafia player and how he plays day one of a game of forum mafia really, really has no bearing on what kind of person he is.

TheMunch, I apologize for being too harsh here. I do realize that it must be frustrating to see a lot of people throwing around former games like they're evidence, but that doesn't make those former games invalid. I've been on the same scum team as 4 of these players in the past (Glooble, O, Voltgloss, and Insomniac) and that's definitely helped me learn how they play scum. I've seen other people play as both town and scum, and all of these things help reads.

All that said, I'd rather just keep things civil and if you have a question or a frustration, just voice it. We don't need to take anything out on anyone.
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eHalcyon

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And also, shraeye, if you want people to read your posts, maybe you should refrain from being directly hostile to your audience?

Like, who wants to read stuff like

So he talks again about one of my posts #369, in which I defended myself, had to finally explain sarcasm to the slower members of our audience, and speculated about the double vote..

Friendly in this game too, cayvie? :P



*facepalms at the guy who says to ignore other games in the game where the flavor is based on people's metas from previous games*

I say again again that my role does not reflect my reputation or my past games, and Robz himself agreed when I talked to him about it.  I believe Robz himself said that not everyone would get roles reflecting their reputation and whatever, partially for game balance and partially for WIFOM.  Therefore it is an unproductive avenue to keep mulling over reputations and such.
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Eevee

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I say again again that my role does not reflect my reputation or my past games, and Robz himself agreed when I talked to him about it.  I believe Robz himself said that not everyone would get roles reflecting their reputation and whatever, partially for game balance and partially for WIFOM.  Therefore it is an unproductive avenue to keep mulling over reputations and such.
You are one example. Insisting that viewpoint is actually borderline rolefishing, because the the only way anyone can refute that theory is by revealing their role actually does match their perceived playstyle. I'm not saying mine does, but I'm definitely saying I'm under the impression that these speculations can indeed be productive. Maybe not yet here on day 1 however, I'll give you that.
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eHalcyon

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I say again again that my role does not reflect my reputation or my past games, and Robz himself agreed when I talked to him about it.  I believe Robz himself said that not everyone would get roles reflecting their reputation and whatever, partially for game balance and partially for WIFOM.  Therefore it is an unproductive avenue to keep mulling over reputations and such.
You are one example. Insisting that viewpoint is actually borderline rolefishing, because the the only way anyone can refute that theory is by revealing their role actually does match their perceived playstyle. I'm not saying mine does, but I'm definitely saying I'm under the impression that these speculations can indeed be productive. Maybe not yet here on day 1 however, I'll give you that.

Are you joking?  Continuing speculation on this front is FAR MORE rolefishy.  My viewpoint is modconfirmed in the OP.

This should not be construed to mean that the roles and alignments will be obvious to people who have read other games. They will be subtly based on aspects of players personalities. (For example, the following line of thinking will not work in this game: "Jotheonah has twice been the Serial Killer, so he's probably the Serial Killer in this game.") Furthermore, some roles and alignments WILL be determined randomly.

Play this like a regular game.
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