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[Cuzz]

Can we talk a little more about O convincing Cayvie to pull back the vote with a nothing argument?  I dont understand why that is not a thing.  Eevee said it; I would like more said.  I dont know by who or about what.  However, I dont know whether to side with Cayvie for following her own no-town-lynch rule and correcting the mistake or to side against Cayvie for breaking it so easily.

Cayvie said she would be potentially hopping off of wagons pre-lynch. She didn't "break" her rule; she's still allowed to vote all she wants presumably. I'm just interpreting her original comment as I read it. Not looking for any more details.

[ashersky]

Unvote

ibgtennis has arrived, although to have one's first post be an OMGUS (Oh My God U Suck) retaliatory vote is kinda less than ideal.  But at least it's a start.

What's the current votecount?

I think we can let this slide a bit coming from someone so new. OMGUS is kind of a natural thing at first, even if you're town. Then you learn it's not so helpful. This coming from someone who's completed a whopping 2 games so far.

Can we talk a little more about O convincing Cayvie to pull back the vote with a nothing argument?  I dont understand why that is not a thing.  Eevee said it; I would like more said.  I dont know by who or about what.  However, I dont know whether to side with Cayvie for following her own no-town-lynch rule and correcting the mistake or to side against Cayvie for breaking it so easily.

Cayvie said she would be potentially hopping off of wagons pre-lynch. She didn't "break" her rule; she's still allowed to vote all she wants presumably. I'm just interpreting her original comment as I read it. Not looking for any more details.

Cuzz, the most forgiving and understanding guy ever. 

[jotheonah]

Ok, I'll stick my neck out and say it.

F.DS lurker meta is just fine in a town this size. The O lynch is bogus. ehunt and yuma are both better choices.

[jotheonah]

I disagree with that scale.
vote: O

I have nothing to defend myself against...

Interesting perspective.
Vote: O

He's right in that we DON'T want scum to be able to slip into D2 with no effort. O!!! Get in here. Talk. Do you think yuma is scummy? Do you think cayvie is scummy? And igbtennis is just not here yet. But O was. And he chose to leave without  anything more than a single vote and a half-sentence "meta" justification. AND IT'S FRIGGIN WORKING. THERE'S NO O WAGON. NOT OKAY.  (and ibgtennis too, but he just hasn't been here at all.)

Yes.  actually, 1000 times yes.  I'm pretty fed up with us being like...watch out lurkers, or we're going to say "shame on you" real loud.  Lurking has consequences.  Starting now. 
Vote: O
I don't care that you've shown up since then to explain why you aren't commenting.  I care that you weren't commenting.  This vote is not "let me put this here until he shows up."  This vote is let's lynch O for he was lurking, by his own admission

No it's just that this thread's been uninteresting so far, except for Ehunt's attempt to make it even more devoid of content.
I think Ftl is the only scummy one on my wagon: I've never used "lolz I'm O" before, people have made that argument for me. And the "I've seen scum O play and this is how he plays" is a very very big scumtell to me IMO when I'm town: It's how I locked in on Glooble after replacing into RMM2.

Also note that my absence has caused more discussion than my presence did.

No, as eevee points out your absence hasn't caused more discussion than your presence did, it just cause people to say "where is o?"

your absence let you get by without voicing an opinion on "is shraeye sarcastic? if so, what does that mean?" debate.  It let you get by without commenting on or voicing opinions about the cayvie/yuma issue.  Voltaire has made a not crazy suggestion to use lynching to draw out information on relationships by lynchin yuma or me.  I'm not crazy about getting lynched, especially because I think that my wagon was still partly in RVS stage and felt less like an alignment question than "was cayvie's softclaim pro-town or not, and what does yuma voting for her mean? Was yuma role-fishing?"  If either of these lynches go through, then still nobody knows anything about how you stand in relation to other players.  THAT IS WHY LURKING IS BAD FOR TOWN.  And that is why I'm voting for you.  I heartily encourage all players who at some point put a vote on O for lurking to put it back.  Him showing up to say "yes I was lurking and nothing looked interesting" should not be a reason to forgive him for that lurking.

Let the record show that Shraeye has voted for me three times in a row inexplicably, without ever taking his vote off me.

This reads scummy to me. In this game, however, it could also be a power/restriction.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.9

shraeye (3) -- Axxle, watno
ehunt (2) -- Jotheonah, O
O (3) -- ashersky, shraeye, TheMunch
Glooble (1) -- Grujah
TheMunch (1) -- Captain_Frisk
Grujah (1) -- Glooble
yuma (4) -- cayvie, Cuzz, Voltaire, Morgrim7
Voltaire (1) -- Insomniac
igbtennis (2) -- Galzria, ftl
ftl (1) -- ibgtennis

Not Voting (7) -- Young Nick, eHalcyon, Dsell, ehunt, yuma, Eevee, Voltgloss

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

[Galzria]

Ok, I'll stick my neck out and say it.

F.DS lurker meta is just fine in a town this size. The O lynch is bogus. ehunt and yuma are both better choices.

Great, then I'll see you next game day. No need to post any more. Lurking is perfectly acceptable, so why should I bother to invest any effort? I'm sure I can find better things to do.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Galzria

Lurker scum.

[Glooble]

My vote stays on Grujah until he more effectively explains why his vote is on me (It's like a little mini-game(

O is playing like O. It's frustrating, but it's not scummy. O-hunting is kind of like Morgrim-hunting, in that it's a good hiding place for scum. In general attacking players with weird, abrasive styles is something I would often do as scum.

I guess Shraeye qualifies as that kind of player now too. His aggressive anti-lurker stance actually looks pro-town to me, even if I think its a bit extreme.

So I'll be watching ashersky, TheMunch, Axxle, and Watno. But not really Axxle, because this whole double-voting thing actually makes him look town to me.

[Watno]

Though I am very glad RVS appears to be ending, but my head is hurting trying to track these issues. I still want O to post. Also anyone else who hasn't posted yet. Though I know O is doing it intentionally.

Heck, vote: O since it's still RVS for me (I said it, it's true!) until I can go back and read more carefully.

You knew O wasn't posting intentionally? How so?
Also, why do you give a reason for your vote, and then say you did it because it was still RVS for you?

For example, Hey Gooble (in 324) and Watno (in 373), you both mention that you are suspicious of Shraeye.  You are both most notable for being suspicious for reasons NOT involving the ridiculous "scumslip".  Care to elaborate?

I think I did explain my reasons in that post. shraeye talks about wording a lot, without actually saying much of concern to the game.

Which reasons from other people do you agree with that you think ehunt is suspicious?  I don't think it's been very well fleshed out at all.

ehunt is currently discussing a bunch of the talking points so I'll give a response if necessary after all that has been said.

Can you explain why you need ehunt to say something before you can tell us the reasons you vote him for? You did already vote him, so the reasons should be there already.

TheMunch! No editing posts!

Policy Vote: TheMunch to make sure he doesn't miss this.

WTF? That's not a reason for a vote, especially since you don't unvote even after TheMunch responded, so obviously noticed it.

Regarding the yuma wagon: This looks kinda scummy to me. I mean, it's hard not to see that cayvie is hinting at her role, but yuma not understanding her seems much more likely still than such an obvious rolefishing attempt. I also kinda agree with Insomniac that some of the later voters seemed to like their chance to jump on a wagon quite a bit.

OK, lots to say:
First, Unvote. Shraeye was a bad wagon. Sorry about that, didn't realize that was sarcasm. Meh. Me and my thick head

It's not like that wasn't pointed out some posts before yours. Sure you're not just looking for a reason to get of the dwindling wagon?

I was hoping more scum would pile on before people started seriously questioning this wagon, but getting at least one scum to join (and I agree with yuma that probably at least one did) is worth something to talk about today.

How do you know there's scum on the wagon? From the structure of your sentence I get the feeling that your reason (believing) came after the rest of your thoughts.

Regarding Lurkers: O and ibgtennis, could you give your opinion on stuff? @ibgtennis: RVS is over.
vote: O, since he's actually not giving us his opinion on purpose.

@joth: I think that's sarcasm again

[ibgtennis]

Unvote

ibgtennis has arrived, although to have one's first post be an OMGUS (Oh My God U Suck) retaliatory vote is kinda less than ideal.  But at least it's a start.

What's the current votecount?

I think we can let this slide a bit coming from someone so new. OMGUS is kind of a natural thing at first, even if you're town. Then you learn it's not so helpful. This coming from someone who's completed a whopping 2 games so far.

Yeah, I mean, it was really late when I was reading this last night so it was tough to think it all out the way everyone else has done in painstaking detail. But more generally, there seems to be so much bullshit bullshitting involved in Day 1 (as opposed to legit bullshitting later on); it feels like people can claim "scumslip" or see a pattern in anything when it's likely just random. But isn't that RVS? Anyway, I suppose we do have to converge on someone to move past Day 1, so later today I'll try and do a harder read. For now my vote remains unchanged.

[shraeye]

My vote stays on Grujah until he more effectively explains why his vote is on me (It's like a little mini-game(

O is playing like O. It's frustrating, but it's not scummy. O-hunting is kind of like Morgrim-hunting, in that it's a good hiding place for scum. In general attacking players with weird, abrasive styles is something I would often do as scum.

I guess Shraeye qualifies as that kind of player now too. His aggressive anti-lurker stance actually looks pro-town to me, even if I think its a bit extreme.

So I'll be watching ashersky, TheMunch, Axxle, and Watno. But not really Axxle, because this whole double-voting thing actually makes him look town to me.

Oh hey! I recognize you, you're one of the players who voted for me because of my abrasive post towards ashersky.

Hi all, just wanted to drop in and say I'm not acti-lurking, just doing regular weekend life stuff, and trying to keep up.

I will mention Eevee is the same ole Eevee, Morgrim a very new Morgrim (liking it!), and the rest of you are still unmolded clay.  I noticed talk of cards started and stopped very quickly; I think it's for the best to leave that to subsequent days. 

Good, I was really worried you were "acti-lurking."  Oh wait, no I wasn't, because that isn't a word.  In more serious news, "talk of cards" never actually started; ehunt said "it's not a good thing to broadcast, don't do it."  End of discussion.  I suppose if I take "stopped very quickly" to mean instantly, you are right.  Otherwise, you do not know what it means to start talking about things.

vote: shraeye

No quantifiable reason just yet, but his post gave me a scum vibe.

I think I will try a vote early, vote often strategy this game.

FOS: ehunt for all the reasons jo said, but especially the "one post a day" comment. That's a strategy that's way better for scum than for town, if everyone followed it.

wait, isn't that something you said you'd do as scum? Hmm...that quote must be around here somewhere.  Oh, here it is.

My vote stays on Grujah until he more effectively explains why his vote is on me (It's like a little mini-game(

O is playing like O. It's frustrating, but it's not scummy. O-hunting is kind of like Morgrim-hunting, in that it's a good hiding place for scum. In general attacking players with weird, abrasive styles is something I would often do as scum.

I guess Shraeye qualifies as that kind of player now too. His aggressive anti-lurker stance actually looks pro-town to me, even if I think its a bit extreme.

So I'll be watching ashersky, TheMunch, Axxle, and Watno. But not really Axxle, because this whole double-voting thing actually makes him look town to me.

Ah sorry, now that I reread it I realize that you aren't making what you said is a scum move.  *I forgot that abrasive only means abrasive when it's going after O.  And that you clearly weren't attacking me because you didn't use words to explain your position on me, you just voted for me after 2 others did.*

But...there's something that doesn't make sense about those statements I just made between the asterisks...hmmmm. Could it be that they're ridiculously false?  Nah...  Gosh, I just can't put my finger on it, how frustrating.

[Voltaire]

Though I am very glad RVS appears to be ending, but my head is hurting trying to track these issues. I still want O to post. Also anyone else who hasn't posted yet. Though I know O is doing it intentionally.

Heck, vote: O since it's still RVS for me (I said it, it's true!) until I can go back and read more carefully.

You knew O wasn't posting intentionally? How so?
Also, why do you give a reason for your vote, and then say you did it because it was still RVS for you?

I knew he wasn't posting intentionally because it's his style. Others have commented on this too in this thread. I think it was MX where he said he wanted to lurk D1 until he could make his first post a hammer. It's his established meta.

Every RVS vote has a reason, even if it's silly, and mine was somewhat silly (it was still very early in the game, lurking wasn't a crime yet) and somewhat serious (I knew O was likely to lurk on purpose, and has previously said (got I forget where) he wanted to come in at L-1. Or maybe that was the same as the hammer comment.

Point being - O is O.

[Voltgloss]

I was hoping more scum would pile on before people started seriously questioning this wagon, but getting at least one scum to join (and I agree with yuma that probably at least one did) is worth something to talk about today.

How do you know there's scum on the wagon? From the structure of your sentence I get the feeling that your reason (believing) came after the rest of your thoughts.

I don't "know" there was scum on yuma's wagon, nor did I say that.  As I said in my post, I "agree with yuma that probably at least one did" (emphasis added).  Why?  Because it was a wagon that scum could feel safe supporting.  If it led to a lynch and if yuma flipped town, scum on the wagon could defuse suspicion with the ready-made explanation "I voted because he was rolefishing." 

Watno, I don't understand your second sentence directed to me.  Can you clarify?

But more generally, there seems to be so much bullshit bullshitting involved in Day 1 (as opposed to legit bullshitting later on); it feels like people can claim "scumslip" or see a pattern in anything when it's likely just random. But isn't that RVS?

ibgtennis, what's the distinction you are drawing between "bullshit bullshitting" and "legit bullshitting?"  I think I know what you're trying to say, but would rather you clarify directly.

[Galzria]

Oh, and before I go into super lurker mode (because apparently that's ok. Just as Joth), I need to switch my vote from igb to O.

Vote: O

[yuma]

I needed to get a better handle on this game: so I am compiling this and will likely publish it when i am done so others can view it.

ftl: 19 posts; RVS style votes; called out and voted for lurkers (igbtennis and O); actually asked O about yuma/cayvie question.

voltgloss: 25 posts; questions ehunt; suspects yuma, dsell and O; votes yuma; unvotes yuma citing wagon being scummy; votes O; votes igbtennis, both for non-posting

eevee: 32 posts; suggests taking notes (hey eevee! look at me taking notes!), votes shraeye in acti-lurk controversy; votes ehunt for post limiting; is first to call me out on my mistake; votes yuma; finds yuma mistake as a "scum slip, that's really just a mistake" votes O; questions cayvie

grujah: 16 posts: but only 4 of them during real game play; starts the meta discussion; votes: globble, hasn't posted since then

insomniac: 25 posts: not active much in RVS; early vote on igbtennis; calls out ehunt and galz; voted voltaire for jumping onto the yuma wagon after it took off

glooble: 9 posts; votes shraeye; votes Grujah "for showing up, voting on me and disappearing" has only one real post after this responding to Munch about why not voting for shraeye anymore

dsell: 25 posts: policy votes morgrim (RVS?); joins yuma in calling O out; argues with ehunt a bit; is around during yuma wagon, but doesn't join it; finds voltgloss most scummy on yuma wagon;

jotheonah: 54 posts: votes for themunch; then ehunt; very aware of secret votes; Wow! lots of one-liners; against "a nice safe, lurker lynch"; votes Galz

Young Nick - V/LA - poor guy, he is going to have so much to read

voltaire - 23 posts; not around much in RVS--oh was VLA--votes O: not involved in the ehunt or dsell discussion; votes: igbtennis; calls yuma out, mixes up eevee/cayvie, votes yuma; argues yuma lynch is good because it provides info

axxle - 18 posts; votes: jot; then dsell; votes shraeye during shraeye's sarcastic moment; finds yuma's explanation plausible and unlikely to be scum;

O - 8 posts; no posting early; votes ehunt (policy lynch for bad meta); game uninteresting; nothing to defend; finds shraeye suspicious for voting 3 times

cayvie - 41 posts; RVS posts; provides meta analysis; votes shraeye; her "soft-claim" votes yuma; votes O; unvotes after he responds with logic I still dont' understand

shraeye - 27 posts: calls out morgrim for overreacting to dsell wagon; votes: voltgloss; his sarcastic comments, etc; joins yuma wagon; moves to vote for O x3;

cuzz - 9 posts: VLA weekend; votes yuma as first real post; not much else

yuma - 33 posts; RVS stuff; defends ehunt and RVS; votes O early; unvotes O after he votes ehunt; cayvie misinterpretation and votes: a whole lot of posts explaining that mistake

ibgtennis - 3 posts: votes ftl;

theMunch - 19 posts; "asking to hear things from new players is a scumtell"; votes ashersky; then ehunt; doesn't like acti-lurking conversation; edits post; changes to theCheat; votes: glooble for changing from shraey to grujah; joins yuma wagon; joins O wagon;

Morgrim - 13 posts: FOS dsell wagon; votes shraeye for "scumslips" ignoring that they were sarcastic; votes yuma, ignoring my arguments and explanations

ehal - 29 posts: conversation with morgrim; see's shraeye sarcasm as a scumslip; finds cayvie's post weird; volt is similar to MIII as scum;

watno - 8 posts: doesn't see shraeye as scummy; but then does after a while, votes shraeye; heavy into acti-lurking talk; not present for yuma/cayvie situation

Galz - 40 posts (but why does it seem like he has posted so little?) RVS voting, ran a marathon; argues with jot; shraeye not scummy, ehunt more scummy; not serial killer; doesn't weigh in a lot into the yuma situation; argues with jot; votes ibgtennis;

Captain_Frisk 14 posts: weekend not around much; policy vote themunch; SO little content!

ehunt - 30 posts; really controversial; votes dsell; recommends one big post; bossy about theory; doesn't get wagon on shraeye or himself; votes dsell again; unvotes him again; not present from then until now

ashersky - 10 posts; votes for galz, starts acti-lurking conversation; and unvotes deeming RVS over; joins shraeye wagon; and unvotes; present for yuma, but doesnt' vote; votes O

So that took awhile:

synopsis of reads for me up to this point:

town read: ehunt, O (although I would like you to post more) eevee, captain_Frisk (although i would like you to post more) themunch; axxle, insomniac; shraeye, cayvie, dsell

null read: morgrim (ok, I read him scummy, but I always do) Galz, ehal; cuzz; ftl; voltaire, young nick

scummy read: ibgtennis (he posted, but one post to only vote w/o saying anything else about anything that has gone on in the game, not so good) ashersky; watno; Glooble, Grujah, voltgloss; jotheonah

[ehunt]

I'll post more later. I don't know quite what to talk about; maybe I'll do a big list with names. Does anyone have questions for me?

For now,

1. Jo's defense of lurking is so weird. He's done this twice; the first was defensible although I think it's wrong (he was saying that if you think someone's scum that's a better lynch than a lurker), but the second was just indefensible (he was saying lurking is A-OK because the town is big. No, that makes lurking worse, not better.) Jo, you're voting for me for encouraging others to follow my "one-a-day" strategy. And yet you are simultaneously defending the practice of lurking qua lurking, not just lurking as opposed to seeming actively scummy. How do you resolve this contradiction?

2. Similarly, DSell didn't get enough heat for his "I'm just going to sit back and form opinions without posting much" stance.

3. I think Yuma made a serious mistake. I don't think scum blatantly rolefishes on day one, and especially I don't think scum-Yuma does (scum-Yuma is helpful and cautious, like scum-eHalc in MVI). HOWEVER, this does not imply that Yuma is town. It just means Yuma is probably telling the truth about the misunderstanding.

4. Has Shraeye answered the arguments about his change in behavior? I can't find an answer, if there is one, can someone link it; if not, Shraeye, please answer these arguments.

[jotheonah]

ehunt: how many times do I have to say this:

People have different playstyles, and that's OK.

Mine is to post a lot of short things. Yours is to post a few big things. O's is to stay quiet until he hs something to say. I'm against lynching someone for their playstyle, period. I'm against imposing your playstyle on other people. I'll vote for O when he does or says something scummy.

Here's something Robz said during signups, which presumably people thought would be respected during the actual game:

I am going to reverse-Voltgloss and swear off serious games because I try to do too much and it's just super time consuming.  Would rather play games where I don't feel guilty for slacking off.

So how serious is this game going to be?  If fairly serious, I would prefer being a backup mod or something.

It's going to be serious, and I want players to take it seriously. However, I absolutely insist that you play, and I absolutely insist that you not feel guilty for slacking off. I do not believe every person should be required to put the same amount of effort into every game. It's fine to let others take the lead now and then. So you should play, and know that I specifically excuse you from doing your long information posts about every player (unless I give you a role requiring it...  )

So you should play.

Emphasis mine. It's a big town. We will catch the lurkers by and by. Their lurking will catch up with them. They're stupid Day 1 lynches. Too easy, too safe, not very informational.

[ehunt]

Hey, this is important. I'm pretty sure that a certain person has breadcrumbed having a certain item. I decided that I am not worried about your breadcrumb being discovered (the item doesn't correspond to a traditional mafia role), which is why I'm comfortable talking about it.

If you give that item to me (and this is true only of me), it will be removed from the game. If you think about it for a second, this will make perfect sense to you. Moreover, if you're town, and I think you are, although this is not mod-confirmed to me, then this will be bad in another way that I am not going to explain further. Do not give that item to me.

Please do not ask for details.

[ehunt]

ehunt: how many times do I have to say this:

People have different playstyles, and that's OK.

Mine is to post a lot of short things. Yours is to post a few big things. O's is to stay quiet until he hs something to say. I'm against lynching someone for their playstyle, period. I'm against imposing your playstyle on other people. I'll vote for O when he does or says something scummy.

Here's something Robz said during signups, which presumably people thought would be respected during the actual game:

I am going to reverse-Voltgloss and swear off serious games because I try to do too much and it's just super time consuming.  Would rather play games where I don't feel guilty for slacking off.

So how serious is this game going to be?  If fairly serious, I would prefer being a backup mod or something.

It's going to be serious, and I want players to take it seriously. However, I absolutely insist that you play, and I absolutely insist that you not feel guilty for slacking off. I do not believe every person should be required to put the same amount of effort into every game. It's fine to let others take the lead now and then. So you should play, and know that I specifically excuse you from doing your long information posts about every player (unless I give you a role requiring it...  )

So you should play.

Emphasis mine. It's a big town. We will catch the lurkers by and by. Their lurking will catch up with them. They're stupid Day 1 lynches. Too easy, too safe, not very informational.

OK, I think you're saying the contradiction resolves itself because you're pro-lots-of-different-posting-styles and anti telling-other-people-how-to-post. That makes sense. I am anti-lurking and pro-telling-other-people-how-to-post, so we disagree.

[Glooble]

I think, as a player who has received four scum PMs and 0 town (ongoing games excluded, including this one, of course) I kind of have a unique perspective on this meta. This game I'm really trying to find scum with a "what would I be doing here?" approach.

Shraeye, I jumped on your wagon for reasons I already gave in response to TheMunch. It looked to me like you were trying to say something memorable so you didn't look like a lurker without actually giving a stance that could be used against you later when the town had more information. That's something I've done a lot as scum.

Voting for people like you and O, who are easy to antagonize because they play in an aggressive and hostile way, is also something I did a lot as scum.

Since those initial posts, you done a lot of things I don't think scum would do. So right now the people voting for you look scummier to me than you do.

[Cuzz]

Unvote: yuma

Compiling a list like that is pro-town.

[Dsell]

And at this point, some of the wagon drivers like Voltgloss look very nearly as bad as yuma himself.

Dsell, I'd like you to explain your thinking here.  Why me specifically?  What made me a "wagon driver?"  Who are the other "wagon drivers" you think look very nearly as bad as yuma himself?  And why?

I just realized I never responded to this. Upon looking back, I overstated things. No one really "drove" the wagon. Really it just took off rather quickly on its own. You were very early in things with just a bit about rolefishing to add to your vote. It still looks a bit scummy to me but not as bad as I made it out to me.

Note that looking "very nearly as bad as yuma" isn't saying a whole lot because while that was a scummy thing to do/mistake to make, yuma has seemed pretty townie otherwise. You have given me a scummier vibe overall because your tone feels different from times when you've flipped town.

[O]

My analysis:

[ehunt]

@Cuzz you shouldn't take "doing work that anybody could do but nobody wants to do" as a town-tell. in MVI i was convinced for the majority of day two that ehalc was town because ehalc spent an enormous amount of time early in that day compiling votes, fos's, and posts early in that day. fast forward to the end of the day and ehalc is mafia - not just mafia, but self-confirmed mafia. So I don't think Yuma's work is a town-tell. much like yuma's mistake earlier, it's neither a town-tell nor a scum-tell.

As far as the Yuma-wagon is concerned, I want to look back over it. I think it's going to be hard to characterize the first few reflexive votes as scum. Yuma made a serious mistake and a bunch of folks jumped on it quickly. I'd be more skeptical of someone acting like they're agonizing, then finally deciding to vote (or not to vote) for yuma. And now I'm going to go back and see if I can find such a person...

[Insomniac]

@Cuzz you shouldn't take "doing work that anybody could do but nobody wants to do" as a town-tell. in MVI i was convinced for the majority of day two that ehalc was town because ehalc spent an enormous amount of time early in that day compiling votes, fos's, and posts early in that day. fast forward to the end of the day and ehalc is mafia - not just mafia, but self-confirmed mafia. So I don't think Yuma's work is a town-tell. much like yuma's mistake earlier, it's neither a town-tell nor a scum-tell.

As far as the Yuma-wagon is concerned, I want to look back over it. I think it's going to be hard to characterize the first few reflexive votes as scum. Yuma made a serious mistake and a bunch of folks jumped on it quickly. I'd be more skeptical of someone acting like they're agonizing, then finally deciding to vote (or not to vote) for yuma. And now I'm going to go back and see if I can find such a person...

So you'll join me on Voltaire