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[Voltgloss]

Unvote

I was hoping more scum would pile on before people started seriously questioning this wagon, but getting at least one scum to join (and I agree with yuma that probably at least one did) is worth something to talk about today.

yuma, your post did read like rolefishing.  You voted cayvie instantaneously after her softclaim, and then (to my eye) threatened you wouldn't remove your vote unless she claimed fully.  I know that's not what you said, but that's how it came across.

That said, your explanations since have been reasonable, and I find it intriguing how multiple additional votes piled onto you despite your having done so.  Those who did can stand some heat.

And also:

And at this point, some of the wagon drivers like Voltgloss look very nearly as bad as yuma himself.

Dsell, I'd like you to explain your thinking here.  Why me specifically?  What made me a "wagon driver?"  Who are the other "wagon drivers" you think look very nearly as bad as yuma himself?  And why?

Anyway, my vote on yuma has served its purpose.  Time to put my vote to a new purpose:  helping convince a certain someone stop lurking. 

Vote: O

(I'm also going now to see if ibgtennis has logged in since the game started)

[Eevee]

Voltgloss, you are an experienced player, one that has a reputation of being a very strong player (even though you always lose, OH SNAP) and on top of that you have the tendency of leading the town a lot. Surely you see why you voting for someone matters more than "some random noob" doing it. Not that much more, but I think that's what Dsell meant. When Voltgloss speaks, town listens!

[Eevee]

Vote: O seems reasonable though, stop being lazy buddy.

[eHalcyon]

Volt's post about his vote basically testing the town reminds me a lot of MIII, where he was scum.

[yuma]

Volt's post about his vote basically testing the town reminds me a lot of MIII, where he was scum.

how so?

[Voltgloss]

Volt's post about his vote basically testing the town reminds me a lot of MIII, where he was scum.

how so?

Because I pulled a similar gambit in M-III re: Galz/jotheonah.  And I was scum.

However, I also pulled a similar gambit in M-VIII re: Robz.  Where I was town.  And completely correct.

This is how I play, whether scum or town.  It shouldn't be accepted as evidence of my alignment one way OR the other.

[eHalcyon]

Volt's post about his vote basically testing the town reminds me a lot of MIII, where he was scum.

how so?

I don't fully remember the events; I think it was d1 or d2.  In MIII, he voted for someone and gave quite a few reasons for it.  Then, after the wagon was formed, he revealed that it had all been a test, that the wagon he had started looked scummy, and then he proceeded to build a case against someone on the wagon.

This feels kind of like that.

Not voting because, hey, it could be legitimate scumhunting.  But it reminds me of Volt doing it in MIII, and he was scum there.  Just thought it was worth mentioning.

PPE: Volt confirms that thought.

[ashersky]

I wanted to get a Vote: O in before bed.  I ended up staying awake longer than expected, though, so here I am now.  I think it'll take a certain number of votes (probably L-X, decided by O pre-game), before he joins the game in earnest.

[O]

No it's just that this thread's been uninteresting so far, except for Ehunt's attempt to make it even more devoid of content.
I think Ftl is the only scummy one on my wagon: I've never used "lolz I'm O" before, people have made that argument for me. And the "I've seen scum O play and this is how he plays" is a very very big scumtell to me IMO when I'm town: It's how I locked in on Glooble after replacing into RMM2.

Also note that my absence has caused more discussion than my presence did. 

[Eevee]

Everyone repeating "where the hell is O!?" is not really discussion. Town O does stuff like this all the time, but I wouldn't put it past scum O either. Unvote I guess though, can't really say O is my main suspect.

[Voltgloss]

Unvote

There's one more lurker, who was logged in two hours ago and yet had nothing to say. 

Vote: ibgtennis.  Come and join the discussion. 

[ftl]

I've never used "lolz I'm O" before,

You did when you put me at L-2 in Medical Mafia. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2893.msg53725#msg53725

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.8

shraeye (3) -- Axxle, watno
ehunt (2) -- Jotheonah, O
O (2) -- ftl, ashersky
Glooble (1) -- Grujah
TheMunch (1) -- Captain_Frisk
Grujah (1) -- Glooble
yuma (6) -- cayvie, Cuzz, Voltaire, shraeye, TheMunch, Morgrim7
Voltaire (1) -- Insomniac
igbtennis (1) -- Voltgloss

Not Voting (8 ) -- Young Nick, igbtennis, eHalcyon, Galzria, Dsell, ehunt, yuma, Eevee

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

[shraeye]

He's right in that we DON'T want scum to be able to slip into D2 with no effort. O!!! Get in here. Talk. Do you think yuma is scummy? Do you think cayvie is scummy? And igbtennis is just not here yet. But O was. And he chose to leave without  anything more than a single vote and a half-sentence "meta" justification. AND IT'S FRIGGIN WORKING. THERE'S NO O WAGON. NOT OKAY.  (and ibgtennis too, but he just hasn't been here at all.)

Yes.  actually, 1000 times yes.  I'm pretty fed up with us being like...watch out lurkers, or we're going to say "shame on you" real loud.  Lurking has consequences.  Starting now. 
Vote: O
I don't care that you've shown up since then to explain why you aren't commenting.  I care that you weren't commenting.  This vote is not "let me put this here until he shows up."  This vote is let's lynch O for he was lurking, by his own admission

No it's just that this thread's been uninteresting so far, except for Ehunt's attempt to make it even more devoid of content.
I think Ftl is the only scummy one on my wagon: I've never used "lolz I'm O" before, people have made that argument for me. And the "I've seen scum O play and this is how he plays" is a very very big scumtell to me IMO when I'm town: It's how I locked in on Glooble after replacing into RMM2.

Also note that my absence has caused more discussion than my presence did.

No, as eevee points out your absence hasn't caused more discussion than your presence did, it just cause people to say "where is o?"

your absence let you get by without voicing an opinion on "is shraeye sarcastic? if so, what does that mean?" debate.  It let you get by without commenting on or voicing opinions about the cayvie/yuma issue.  Voltaire has made a not crazy suggestion to use lynching to draw out information on relationships by lynchin yuma or me.  I'm not crazy about getting lynched, especially because I think that my wagon was still partly in RVS stage and felt less like an alignment question than "was cayvie's softclaim pro-town or not, and what does yuma voting for her mean? Was yuma role-fishing?"  If either of these lynches go through, then still nobody knows anything about how you stand in relation to other players.  THAT IS WHY LURKING IS BAD FOR TOWN.  And that is why I'm voting for you.  I heartily encourage all players who at some point put a vote on O for lurking to put it back.  Him showing up to say "yes I was lurking and nothing looked interesting" should not be a reason to forgive him for that lurking.

[jotheonah]

the reason we never lynch lurkers for realz is because there are always better targets, y'know? It goes obvscum>scummy>lurker>bad town play>annoying play>random>no lynch>obvtown>IC

the relevant bit here being scummy>lurking

[Galzria]

the reason we never lynch lurkers for realz is because there are always better targets, y'know? It goes obvscum>scummy>lurker>bad town play>annoying play>random>no lynch>obvtown>IC

the relevant bit here being scummy>lurking

So scum should just lurk and let town kill themselves? I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a flawed system. We should absolutely be lynching lurker>everything except confirmed scum. Otherwise there's always going to be a safer place for scum to hide: lurk.

[shraeye]

I disagree with that scale.
vote: O

[shraeye]

the reason we never lynch lurkers for realz is because there are always better targets, y'know? It goes obvscum>scummy>lurker>bad town play>annoying play>random>no lynch>obvtown>IC

the relevant bit here being scummy>lurking

So scum should just lurk and let town kill themselves? I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a flawed system. We should absolutely be lynching lurker>everything except confirmed scum. Otherwise there's always going to be a safer place for scum to hide: lurk.

The man talks sense, yet he gives no votes...

[Galzria]

the reason we never lynch lurkers for realz is because there are always better targets, y'know? It goes obvscum>scummy>lurker>bad town play>annoying play>random>no lynch>obvtown>IC

the relevant bit here being scummy>lurking

So scum should just lurk and let town kill themselves? I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a flawed system. We should absolutely be lynching lurker>everything except confirmed scum. Otherwise there's always going to be a safer place for scum to hide: lurk.

Note: I recognize that we, as a community, have created this bad system that we play in. I've found Shraeye suspicious for other things he's said today, but he's right here. We need to change our priorities and perspective. However, my vote will first go to Vote: igbtennis for having said nothing at all. After he comes in and begins to contribute I will vote O unless he too has become active. Because there HAS been stuff to commit on this game, and he's lurked his way out of involving himself.

[jotheonah]

I think that a policy like LAL involves committing to winning a larger number of games in general at the expense of the game we're currently playing, something town is seldom willing to do in context.

[Eevee]

igbtennis clearly hasn't realized the has started yet though, so it's different kind of lurking.

[Galzria]

I think that a policy like LAL involves committing to winning a larger number of games in general at the expense of the game we're currently playing, something town is seldom willing to do in context.

The moment it's suggested, scum paint the person as obvscum for not playing to town's wincon in "this" game.

[shraeye]

the reason we never lynch lurkers for realz is because there are always better targets, y'know? It goes obvscum>scummy>lurker>bad town play>annoying play>random>no lynch>obvtown>IC

the relevant bit here being scummy>lurking

So scum should just lurk and let town kill themselves? I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a flawed system. We should absolutely be lynching lurker>everything except confirmed scum. Otherwise there's always going to be a safer place for scum to hide: lurk.

Note: I recognize that we, as a community, have created this bad system that we play in. I've found Shraeye suspicious for other things he's said today, but he's right here. We need to change our priorities and perspective. However, my vote will first go to Vote: igbtennis for having said nothing at all. After he comes in and begins to contribute I will vote O unless he too has become active. Because there HAS been stuff to commit on this game, and he's lurked his way out of involving himself.

An acceptable alternative is ibgtennis he has not shown up at all (and is currently 'online'??)

It seems unfair to vote for youNgick due to his previously stated V/LA until the 20th.  But when that date shows up he needs to be ready to jump in with all 3 feet.

[Galzria]

igbtennis clearly hasn't realized the has started yet though, so it's different kind of lurking.

I agree, in general. But we're 500+ posts in. It's not like we just started 12 hours ago. And he signed up saying he was rl friends with somebody here, didn't he? Thus I would expect that "somebody" would inform him. So if we actively started pursuing this Policy - and I think we should - he's set first, ever, ever so slightly above O who admits to lurking because he doesn't want to commit himself.

[shraeye]

igbtennis clearly hasn't realized the has started yet though, so it's different kind of lurking.

I agree, in general. But we're 500+ posts in. It's not like we just started 12 hours ago. And he signed up saying he was rl friends with somebody here, didn't he? Thus I would expect that "somebody" would inform him. So if we actively started pursuing this Policy - and I think we should - he's set first, ever, ever so slightly above O who admits to lurking because he doesn't want to commit himself.

It's a tough call.  without context ibgtennis's lurking is worse.  But the context I'm using is "O is experienced at f.DS mafia"  I'm much less willing to forgive him.