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[Eevee]

Insomniac (and partially eHalcyon):

When in the history of mafia has someone randomly said "I have evidence that suggests X is town!" and been mafia? You are seeing a scum pair planning this elaborate lie out of the blue on day 2 with zero suspicion from either party before. Please explain this! I just don't see how the business between me and O could be seen as "scummy action", seriously don't.

Im not seeing a scum pair I didn't even say it was scummy, I said you've raised my suspicion of you because of it. Also MVII/timchen would like a word.

Why would you be suspicious of someone doing something that doesn't look scummy? Hunting for plausible reasons to build cases on townies perhaps?

[Insomniac]

Vote: Insomniac

Last post gave me a serious scum vibe.

Because I said you are playing scummy? Nice deflection vote Fuzzy

Because nothing of my play actually is scummy. Who are forced to build fake cases on townies again?

+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means
+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light
+supporting the PPS lynch

One big point and three small ones in a three sentence post, nice.

Lets break this down shall we

"+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means" -- You do this in every game, in an 18 man game you expect me to be able to read all 18 people when most aren't even active, I suspect the scum is probably in the lurkers.

"+supporting the PPS lynch" -- You don't get credit for not supporting this lynch, it was lynch PPS or nothing and he seemed scummy to me that doesn't make me scum

"+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light" -- You were just voting for him you get ZERO credit for this because I said I agree with the case against him. You actually lose points here because you yourself were doing the same thing.

"Because nothing of my play actually is scummy." -- Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy, if its a gut read we the town need to know that your not missleading us, Also nothing stops scum from saying they have townreads on their scumbuddies, or even insinuating that that person is conf. town. Quite on the contrary they have incentive TO do that because if it works hey noone suspects their buddies.

[eHalcyon]

Insomniac (and partially eHalcyon):

When in the history of mafia has someone randomly said "I have evidence that suggests X is town!" and been mafia? You are seeing a scum pair planning this elaborate lie out of the blue on day 2 with zero suspicion from either party before. Please explain this! I just don't see how the business between me and O could be seen as "scummy action", seriously don't.

I said I didn't find it scummy.  I found it odd that O had such confidence in you that he not only bestowed upon you this secret evidence but also said you were probably best to lead a massclaim.  If you had evidence of O's innocence, why not nominate O from the start?  I find it odd.  Not necessarily scummy.

eHal you were saying before day 1 ended that we should no lynch and then mass claim today, do you deny this because I'll go find one of the many quotes if you'd like.

And no I'm not hedging I don't like you pushing for mass claim but I don't think your scum, I would be more leaning towards voting for one of the people on your wagon which I didn't realize they were all voting for you when I made my last post, but I stand by it.

I said we should no lynch because we would have some info.  And hey, we do have some info!  Eevee is clearing O, to some extent.  And there are also probably things that people have not yet revealed, but they're waiting to see if it can be put to use.  But what happened instead?  You guys lynched PPS, who was apparently a Cop (as per Galz' info).  Nicely done.

I said that I think a mass claim might be interesting, but I did not say it SHOULD be done.  I said we should wait to see the results of the night before deciding.






On a completely different note,

FoS: theorel, Captain_Frisk, Robz888

These are people from whom I expect insight and activity, but I feel like they aren't around at all.  I do remember seeing theorel post, but not any analysis or commentary.  I don't remember CF posting much, and Robz has felt very much absent.

FoS: Watno, ashersky, Cuzz

I haven't seen them in a game yet (maybe they were/are in some I am not following) but they seem very lurky as well.

[eHalcyon]

What posts of O/Eevee/Galz are you talking about?

You haven't answered this yet.

[Insomniac]

What posts of O/Eevee/Galz are you talking about?

You haven't answered this yet.

The ones where they say person X is town, or O supporting Eevee, the same ones you've called out, I can go look for them a bit later but I am currently working.

[cayvie]

"Because nothing of my play actually is scummy." -- Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy, if its a gut read we the town need to know that your not missleading us, Also nothing stops scum from saying they have townreads on their scumbuddies, or even insinuating that that person is conf. town. Quite on the contrary they have incentive TO do that because if it works hey noone suspects their buddies.

I politely disagree.

[Insomniac]

"Because nothing of my play actually is scummy." -- Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy, if its a gut read we the town need to know that your not missleading us, Also nothing stops scum from saying they have townreads on their scumbuddies, or even insinuating that that person is conf. town. Quite on the contrary they have incentive TO do that because if it works hey noone suspects their buddies.

I politely disagree.

Do you also disagree with my explanation of WHY its scummy?

[eHalcyon]

What posts of O/Eevee/Galz are you talking about?

You haven't answered this yet.

The ones where they say person X is town, or O supporting Eevee, the same ones you've called out, I can go look for them a bit later but I am currently working.

That isn't quite "this info is truth and cannot be questioned."  I asked for clarification from O and ftl, not Galz, because they voiced support for someone without being clear if it was a read or something more.  I would treat it differently depending on what it was.  O clarified that he just has a town read on Eevee; ftl has not clarified about Galz.

Of course, my questions then got called out as rolefishing, which I disagree with.  But whatever.

Galz hasn't said anything like that.

Eevee's evidence on O is something else.  I think we have to operate on the assumption that it is good, though it is folly to have complete and blind faith on it.  We don't know how reliable the evidence is, and it could be a daring scum gambit (inspired by the cayvie/Galz lying in RMM2, maybe).  But in general, that kind of support is something we can't just throw out.

[Eevee]

Vote: Insomniac

Last post gave me a serious scum vibe.

Because I said you are playing scummy? Nice deflection vote Fuzzy

Because nothing of my play actually is scummy. Who are forced to build fake cases on townies again?

+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means
+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light
+supporting the PPS lynch

One big point and three small ones in a three sentence post, nice.

Lets break this down shall we

"+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means" -- You do this in every game, in an 18 man game you expect me to be able to read all 18 people when most aren't even active, I suspect the scum is probably in the lurkers.

"+supporting the PPS lynch" -- You don't get credit for not supporting this lynch, it was lynch PPS or nothing and he seemed scummy to me that doesn't make me scum

"+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light" -- You were just voting for him you get ZERO credit for this because I said I agree with the case against him. You actually lose points here because you yourself were doing the same thing.

"Because nothing of my play actually is scummy." -- Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy, if its a gut read we the town need to know that your not missleading us, Also nothing stops scum from saying they have townreads on their scumbuddies, or even insinuating that that person is conf. town. Quite on the contrary they have incentive TO do that because if it works hey noone suspects their buddies.

All the smaller points were just additional evidence and would not have warranted a vote on their own. Main thing is you trying to build a case on me for reasons that are not there.

I thought this was clear by now, I'll repeat. O just has a town read on me, no mod confirmation on anything (I assume).  I have evidence that strongly suggests O is town (if this wasn't bastard mafia, I'd say it's almost as good as a cop investigation, but here obviously something crazy could be going on). What of this is scummy, and why? Do you think I should just tell everything I know if I'm town?

Like cayvie, I politely but also very strongly disagree with this

Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy.

I have shared the information (mod has to be lying / there has to be very bastard roles here somewhere for O to be mafia), don't you realize how ridiculously scummy of a rolefish asking for anything more is? You would have wanted me to out the town cop shark_bait in murder mystery too?

@eHalcyon
I though O wanted to keep the thing a secret. I was really surprised to see him openly claim it in the thread. Don't know why he has such a strong town read on me, maybe he thinks he reads me well in general or something. You should ask him.

I didn't nominate O to lead the mass claim because I thought he wanted to keep the thing a secret and I couldn't have explained my trust on him when questioned.

[Dsell]

I have a vacation home on the dark side of the moon.

I don't get a scummy vibe from Insomniac this game. His play is utterly and completely different than his scum play in RMM1.

FTL is a little less active today. It's not like it's easier for scum to fit in on day 2 or anything...

[Insomniac]

I have a vacation home on the dark side of the moon.

I don't get a scummy vibe from Insomniac this game. His play is utterly and completely different than his scum play in RMM1.

FTL is a little less active today. It's not like it's easier for scum to fit in on day 2 or anything...

And in RMM1 I played like I do when I'm town.

Vote: Insomniac

Last post gave me a serious scum vibe.

Because I said you are playing scummy? Nice deflection vote Fuzzy

Because nothing of my play actually is scummy. Who are forced to build fake cases on townies again?

+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means
+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light
+supporting the PPS lynch

One big point and three small ones in a three sentence post, nice.

Lets break this down shall we

"+ saying I have no reads in this game doesn't give a town vibe to me although obviously not an explicit scum tell by any means" -- You do this in every game, in an 18 man game you expect me to be able to read all 18 people when most aren't even active, I suspect the scum is probably in the lurkers.

"+supporting the PPS lynch" -- You don't get credit for not supporting this lynch, it was lynch PPS or nothing and he seemed scummy to me that doesn't make me scum

"+trying to show ehalcyon in bad light" -- You were just voting for him you get ZERO credit for this because I said I agree with the case against him. You actually lose points here because you yourself were doing the same thing.

"Because nothing of my play actually is scummy." -- Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy, if its a gut read we the town need to know that your not missleading us, Also nothing stops scum from saying they have townreads on their scumbuddies, or even insinuating that that person is conf. town. Quite on the contrary they have incentive TO do that because if it works hey noone suspects their buddies.

All the smaller points were just additional evidence and would not have warranted a vote on their own. Main thing is you trying to build a case on me for reasons that are not there.

I thought this was clear by now, I'll repeat. O just has a town read on me, no mod confirmation on anything (I assume).  I have evidence that strongly suggests O is town (if this wasn't bastard mafia, I'd say it's almost as good as a cop investigation, but here obviously something crazy could be going on). What of this is scummy, and why? Do you think I should just tell everything I know if I'm town?

Like cayvie, I politely but also very strongly disagree with this

Claiming you have information that you won't share of confirm anything of is scummy.

I have shared the information (mod has to be lying / there has to be very bastard roles here somewhere for O to be mafia), don't you realize how ridiculously scummy of a rolefish asking for anything more is? You would have wanted me to out the town cop shark_bait in murder mystery too?

@eHalcyon
I though O wanted to keep the thing a secret. I was really surprised to see him openly claim it in the thread. Don't know why he has such a strong town read on me, maybe he thinks he reads me well in general or something. You should ask him.

I didn't nominate O to lead the mass claim because I thought he wanted to keep the thing a secret and I couldn't have explained my trust on him when questioned.

If you recall I DID want you to out shark_bait, saying you have information but not saying what it is is effectively saying you have mod supplied information as opposed to a read so if it ISNT mod supplied your grossly missleading the town.

[Eevee]

This could be just two townies arguing, but either Insomniac has vastly different views with me or he is scum painting himself to a corner.

This just looks a lot like a scumslip:

Im not seeing a scum pair I didn't even say it was scummy, I said you've raised my suspicion of you because of it. Also MVII/timchen would like a word.

"I suspect you but I don't think you are scummy" is how I read it.

[Eevee]

Yeah but how did that turn out? Oh wait shark_bait the cop got nightkilled, it's good you questioned it rather than just believing me.

[Dsell]

I have a vacation home on the dark side of the moon.

I don't get a scummy vibe from Insomniac this game. His play is utterly and completely different than his scum play in RMM1.

FTL is a little less active today. It's not like it's easier for scum to fit in on day 2 or anything...

And in RMM1 I played like I do when I'm town.

Lowly old me can't tell the difference!




 

[Insomniac]

Yeah but how did that turn out? Oh wait shark_bait the cop got nightkilled, it's good you questioned it rather than just believing me.

He would have been nightkilled either way, you had already given the mafia all the info they needed when YOU TOLD GALZRIA HIS ROLE

[Dsell]

I have a vacation home on the dark side of the moon.

I don't get a scummy vibe from Insomniac this game. His play is utterly and completely different than his scum play in RMM1.

FTL is a little less active today. It's not like it's easier for scum to fit in on day 2 or anything...

And in RMM1 I played like I do when I'm town.

Lowly old me can't tell the difference!




 


Unfix'd. Quotes are my faaaaaaaaaavorite.

[Eevee]

Like okay, lets hypothetically assume either O is a cop or I am the cop and for some twisted role madness reasons the investigation is able to clear both parties to eachother.  I should spell out who to kill for mafia now?

[Eevee]

Yeah but how did that turn out? Oh wait shark_bait the cop got nightkilled, it's good you questioned it rather than just believing me.

He would have been nightkilled either way, you had already given the mafia all the info they needed when YOU TOLD GALZRIA HIS ROLE

Not my finest moment.  But you'd have me tell everyone which is just beyond me. What happened to protecting power roles at all costs?

[Robz888]

Like okay, lets hypothetically assume either O is a cop or I am the cop and for some twisted role madness reasons the investigation is able to clear both parties to eachother.  I should spell out who to kill for mafia now?

I think you just did, so perhaps we can all stop talking about this now?

[Insomniac]

Yeah but how did that turn out? Oh wait shark_bait the cop got nightkilled, it's good you questioned it rather than just believing me.

He would have been nightkilled either way, you had already given the mafia all the info they needed when YOU TOLD GALZRIA HIS ROLE

Not my finest moment.  But you'd have me tell everyone which is just beyond me. What happened to protecting power roles at all costs?

Ok to try and explain my stance I'll spell it out

Assume your town and not lying

1) Everyone including mafia can see your post.
2) Mafia know your not one of them and you already proved its not JUST a read.
3) So since mafia has full view of you're statement they will kill you, Mafia has incentive to kill people that are confirmed town and even more so on power roles.
4) So your statement has ALREADY caused you and O to die.
5) If your actually going to die you should give the information you have to the town so that if you do die town can believe you and have that information.

In this particular case your information clears TWO people so the mafia can only kill one of you and therefore your information is helpful to the town for at least a day.

Now this is how my stance has ALWAYS been on softish claims, for reference see BMMM1 where I was in fact town I always call out soft claims I do not support them one bit. UNLESS they're subtle but provable later like Axxle's Miller claim which someone stupidly asked him about (don't recall who right now).

Or eHal's jailkeeper claim in M3 these are claims I can get behind, they are provable but not so blatant that the scum faction will notice it for sure. Yours is one the scum team will pick up on for sure if you are indeed not scum. Maybe I'm wrong about it but I have a high suspicion that the softclaiming nature we have gotten into on f.DS is terrible.

[jotheonah]

Modfirmation time, both Eevee and Insomniac are town. Additionally at least one of the other fourteen players are not town aligned.

Mod out!

[eHalcyon]

@eHalcyon
I though O wanted to keep the thing a secret. I was really surprised to see him openly claim it in the thread. Don't know why he has such a strong town read on me, maybe he thinks he reads me well in general or something. You should ask him.

I didn't nominate O to lead the mass claim because I thought he wanted to keep the thing a secret and I couldn't have explained my trust on him when questioned.

That's the part I find odd.  If O wanted to keep it a secret, might as well keep it a secret.  If he was going to reveal it, why take the detour of nominating you, then revealing it when I was in the hot seat?  Just a little weird, is all.

I did ask O, and then got grilled for rolefishing.  It was clear he wasn't any sort of cop anyway, since he said he would read back on your posts before deciding.  But he still seemed to indicate that he had some sort of info, which is why I asked... and it turns out that there is some weird role wizardry at play, except it goes in the other direction. 

Like okay, lets hypothetically assume either O is a cop or I am the cop and for some twisted role madness reasons the investigation is able to clear both parties to eachother.  I should spell out who to kill for mafia now?

I think you just did, so perhaps we can all stop talking about this now?

What should we talk about instead?

PPE: What in the world, jo.  Can you promise that?

[Dsell]

Eevee and Insom shouldn't bother making a list of who they suspect now or anything. Confirmed townies' reads don't matter that much!

Oh and I'm going in to labor now, btw.

[Robz888]

Um, woah, we should talk about this mod confirmation.

Why did Insomniac get cleared? I mean, I guess it doesn't matter, if he's cleared. Unless this is mod trolling... or scum have some power over the mod...

[Dsell]

And O. O should definitely not post a comprehensive list of reads and other gamestate info. No no no way!