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[cayvie]

Oh, and vote: timchen

I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone else to lynch a cultist tonight, so I might as well go after Curses.

[yuma]

Normally, as a town power role, it's good to hide that fact; you don't want to be singled out and nightkilled. But, in this game, there are three reasons that logic doesn't apply.

1) Mafia don't have a nightkill
2) Everyone's got a power role
3) My role can change at any time

Now, DSell points out that, if the person stealing roles can give my role to scum, then that might be a reason to hide my role. However, with the exception of Black Market, I don't think any of the roles I've had are actually particularly powerful roles in the hands of scum.

I agree with this and is the reason I claimed as well... embargo certainly is no power role and isn't going to be a target to be stolen. But we should caution all lesser roles from claiming. If all lesser roles claim that leaves only the power roles left and makes them easier targets for curse aligned to hit.

[cayvie]

Oh, and vote: timchen

I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone else to lynch a cultist tonight, so I might as well go after Curses.

tonight = today

[timchen]

Glad to see the ability spell out! Then I guess the two mountebanks have no effects on Galz then (because I already gave him -2.) So where does the remaining -2 come from?

[Captain_Frisk]

Glad to see the ability spell out! Then I guess the two mountebanks have no effects on Galz then (because I already gave him -2.) So where does the remaining -2 come from?

I'm going to guess that the curse faction isn't going to claim any hurt they put on Galz - but I would imagine that at -9VP, someone they knew not to be in their faction would be a pretty juicy target.

[cayvie]

Glad to see the ability spell out! Then I guess the two mountebanks have no effects on Galz then (because I already gave him -2.) So where does the remaining -2 come from?

I'm not so sure.

I suspect that the ordering of effects might have worked like this:

I target Eevee
Game checks: is Eevee going to lose vp tonight?
Game answers: no
Game gives -1 to Eevee
Eevee sees: Mountebank is giving me -1
Eevee plays: Secret Chamber, giving that -1 to Galzria.

[cayvie]

Also, nobody's commented on it yet, but:

With Galzria dead, the Ironworks gang are now zombies, correct? Thus the "brains"?

[timchen]

I am not curses. Try to explain my play if I am a curse.

For the town I probably should try to stop you voting for me at all cost. But I am really tired of trying to reason with you when all you see is that I lied twice. I am sorry about that and that it didn't work out. Lynch me if you must. 

[cayvie]

I lied twice

[Captain_Frisk]

I lied twice

I know.  What does anyone know about Tables?

[jotheonah]

You early claimed a role and cardname as a gambit, in the hopes of gaining town cred and encouraging others to reveal. You realized part of your fakeclaim was making people want to lynch you, so you changed it. This is much more likely to me than a town-aligned player deciding to lie out of the gate day 1.

[Eevee]

If that's the case, Eevee, who do you think we should lynch today? Oh, and remember if you name anyone who is supsicious, you are probably scum.

Thats ridiculous, why are you getting so upset? I did say "but in this game less so, because everything is so confusing anyways". I by no means said "everyone who names the suspicious people is probably scum". I did say I expect scum to name those three though.

I dont know how to read the tone of your response. Could be a townie feeling upset of being wrongfully accused (I do feel everything I said is reasonable though), could be a mafia trying to fight back aggressively. I have no idea.

As to your question: You, although I dont mind the timchen wagon we have forming that much. I really dont have much of a read on him, the stuff that made people suspect him, while certainly scummy, might just be a townie making mistakes. I would know, right? I definitely dont have a town read on him either though, so I dont mind the wagon. I'm just not overly excited about it either, but without investigative role's its hard to get sure enough to be. The problem I see is that he is not playing in a way I expect scum to play.* I expect scum to try to stay back and avoid the spotlight, post some analysis but nothing too controversial. Post just enough to not get called out for lurking. Thats exactly the way you (Lekkit) have played. Joth brought this up yesterday, and I got to say I agree 100%.

*Some people, I'm thinking Galzria or Volt for example, I expect to play scum different. Basicly, I think they are confident enough in their game they try to play scum exactly the way they play town (leading the discussion a lot, et cetera). For example, I once was scum with Volt, I know he isnt afraid of making big posts and analyzing a lot even when he has to lie through his teeth in every single one of them.

[cayvie]

I lied twice

I know.  What does anyone know about Tables?

I know he was Black Market with me.
He's claimed that he's now Young Witch
I believe he still has some anti-Ironworks power, which wasn't tied to his Black Market-hood.

I don't know his alignment.

[timchen]

@Jo: if my priority is to gain town cred as scum this is exactly something that I wouldn't have done. Claiming is at best neutral for this purpose (especially when my claim does not point out a scum.) And just look what happened next in the game. I did this PRECISELY because I do not care that much about town cred.

As for encouraging other to reveal, yeah I sort of agree that is part of my original intention. (not the main one though; main one was trying to get my +1 VP per day)

[Lekkit]

@Eevee: I have said that you make fair points. However, look around. I'm certainly not the only one playing like that. We have jo, C_F and Insomniac that has basically done the same thing. Then we have Axxle, Robz and s_b who has been suspiciously quiet. Although Robz and Axxle said they had some RL stuff going on, so I'll believe them on that. I myself didn't have as much time when this started, but when my gf went to France I had more time to spend here, and that's why I'm more active here now.

Also, the reason I'm arguing is because I was born that way. I have a hard time letting go.

Anyways, I've done this before, and I kinda hope I won't have to do it again. Vote: timchen

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 5-3

Robz888 (1) - Eevee
timchen (4) - jotheonah, yuma, cayvie, Lekkit

Not voting (9): Axxle, Captain_Frisk, Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888, shark_bait, Tables, timchen, Voltgloss

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, August 16, 6:00pm MDT




Point Counter Extension 5.3

3 - Axxle
3 - Captain_Frisk
4 - cayvie
0 - Dsell
0 - Eevee
-1.5 - Insomniac
-1 - jotheonah
-1 - Lekkit
-2 - Robz888
0 - shark_bait
1 - Tables
0 - timchen
-5.5 - Voltgloss
0.5 - yuma

[cayvie]

Well, in 10-15 mins, I'll be gone for the weekend. Just a heads up.

[jotheonah]

@Jo: if my priority is to gain town cred as scum this is exactly something that I wouldn't have done. Claiming is at best neutral for this purpose (especially when my claim does not point out a scum.) And just look what happened next in the game. I did this PRECISELY because I do not care that much about town cred.

As for encouraging other to reveal, yeah I sort of agree that is part of my original intention. (not the main one though; main one was trying to get my +1 VP per day)

Color me unconvinced. Lots of people have made stupid early innocuous claims and been labeled obvtown for it. Hell I've done it.

[timchen]

But have you ever seen scum trying that and succeeded?

[jotheonah]

I fail to see how that's relevant.

[timchen]

As a town you are more likely to try this. Sometimes you get town cred, sometimes you don't. But unless there is a compelling trend for people to label such claim as obv town, there are no incentives for scum to do so.

So yes, I cannot show that scums can't do this, but I think it should be relatively obvious that scums have no incentive to do this. This only changes if your previous statement becomes that whenever people early claim innocent the town tends to believe them.

[jotheonah]

That's why I called it a gambit.

[Tables]

Hey Tables, how much are you allowed to tell us about being Possessed?

I've already told you everything.

Regarding King's Court. I think I know where it is. I just checked, and it was one of the roles available from the Black Market that night. I was tempted by it, but there was an option I figured looked far more useful (Jester... which for that day only would give me +10 VPs and negate any lost VPs from lynching - and after my request to be recruited because of special powers, I figured it wouldn't be too tough to 'accidentally' scumslip/cultslip and get myself lynched. But then Chancellor was played.). This would explain where the KC is, but as nobody currently knows WHO the other Black Market is, it's... kinda useless information. There's a few possibilities as to what actually happened, as well. Maybe someone used it innocently, and something redirected the KC onto Galz. Maybe Galz partner got it. There's also the option I'm sure someone would point out, maybe I'm the partner and I KC'd Galz, but then you have to answer the question of why I'm telling you this.

I don't remember if anything else was directed at me. Ask again if it was and I haven't answered.

Regarding timchen: I'm not convinced it was a curse opening move. It's plausible, but I can't see curse as a faction suggesting it as an opening move, without SOMEONE realising the issue, and I doubt a curse would do it without having some agreement it's a good idea. This assumes Curse could talk pre-game though.

[eHalcyon]

It's gotten so very quiet in here...

[Tables]

... Wow, 24 hours?

That's quite depressing actually. I'd love to start discussion up again with some random new thing I've spotted, but that would require me to have spotted some random new thing...