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[Captain_Frisk]

And I was ninja'd by Axxle on my very first point.

Did it take you 25 minutes to write that defense?

[Dsell]

And I was ninja'd by Axxle on my very first point.

Did it take you 25 minutes to write that defense?

I was writing it while doing other things. I wish I could spend all my time playing mafia, but I can't.

[Captain_Frisk]

Also, I had an interesting thought earlier. What if Tables is Mafia Chancellor? (Godfather)

We talked about this a while back.  In theory Tables could also be a investigation immune witch.

Crap - I'm quoting pops again:

You're being picky SFS.  In a game with confirmed sanity cops, an innocent is generally good enough that you don't touch a player at all before LyLo, and even then you probably don't touch him unless he is mega superscummy.  The investigation is valid 90% of the time, based on the probability of investigation immunity. There's probably one immune player per ten.  Good SKs will pick kill immunity, not investigation immunity.  No one ever scumhunts at a 90% level, if people did, we'd play games with 7 town and 5 mafia, and then still have to give the mafia power roles.  So you forced with the only rational choice of trusting the investigation entirely and accepting a loss a 10% of the time.  Which sucks when that 10% has nothing to do with scumhunting but your hand is forced.  Which is why I find town colored investigation immunity to be retarded.

I'm not sure about the SK immunity selection - but pops has played far more than I have.  As for godfather - I'd find it more plausible if Tables had just simply bussed O... but he drove that bus.  Sure, it's a great place to be - but it wasn't necessary.  I don't think we would have lynched O without Tables.

[Dsell]

idk why I always expect people's defense posts to blow me away. They're usually super underwhelming like that one.

Are there any other points you'd like me to address? I thought my defense was pretty comprehensive given that the case against me is paper-thin.

[Captain_Frisk]

DSell - who do you consider to be the most likely suspects among the O voters and why?

[Dsell]

Also, I had an interesting thought earlier. What if Tables is Mafia Chancellor? (Godfather)

We talked about this a while back.  In theory Tables could also be a investigation immune witch.

Crap - I'm quoting pops again:

You're being picky SFS.  In a game with confirmed sanity cops, an innocent is generally good enough that you don't touch a player at all before LyLo, and even then you probably don't touch him unless he is mega superscummy.  The investigation is valid 90% of the time, based on the probability of investigation immunity. There's probably one immune player per ten.  Good SKs will pick kill immunity, not investigation immunity.  No one ever scumhunts at a 90% level, if people did, we'd play games with 7 town and 5 mafia, and then still have to give the mafia power roles.  So you forced with the only rational choice of trusting the investigation entirely and accepting a loss a 10% of the time.  Which sucks when that 10% has nothing to do with scumhunting but your hand is forced.  Which is why I find town colored investigation immunity to be retarded.

I'm not sure about the SK immunity selection - but pops has played far more than I have.  As for godfather - I'd find it more plausible if Tables had just simply bussed O... but he drove that bus.  Sure, it's a great place to be - but it wasn't necessary.  I don't think we would have lynched O without Tables.

Gotcha. I remember skimming this after coming back from vacation but I was forgetting and wasn't thinking about it in the context of O's lynch.

[Robz888]

I also agree that I don't want to forget about Tables and SFS completely, but their votes don't exactly jive with a narrative of either of them being mafia. Both voted O, didn't they? And Tables really made the lynch O. I said it should be Galzria or O, and Tables totally went O, didn't he? But sure, he could be an investigative immune SK, I suppose. If he is, SFS really screwed us!

I always thought it more plausible that SFS was a mafia who simply chose Tables to claim as innocent in attempt to acquit himself. I mean, I explicitly thought this was not the case, but it COULD be the case. Still, that would make SFS a mafia who quarreled with O and voted O. It can't be ruled out, I suppose, but it can very nearly be ruled out, I think.

Tables as an investigative-immune SK is probably the only remotely plausible scenario there.

As for Dsell's defense, it won't be swaying me--although it would have had to be amazing to change my mind at this point. I'm not sure how he really could defend himself, though, as the case against him is almost contingent on how non-obvscum he's been.

I really think we should lynch him. If he flips town we'll have to look at who he suspected more seriously next round. Which we probably would do anyway, since the people he suspects are mostly the people everybody suspects.

[Captain_Frisk]

As for Dsell's defense, it won't be swaying me--although it would have had to be amazing to change my mind at this point. I'm not sure how he really could defend himself, though, as the case against him is almost contingent on how non-obvscum he's been.

I really think we should lynch him. If he flips town we'll have to look at who he suspected more seriously next round. Which we probably would do anyway, since the people he suspects are mostly the people everybody suspects.

Agreed on both points - but because we have some time - I figured we should interrogate him fist.  Maybe we beat a confession out of him?

Mafia or not - his viewpoint on the O voters will be informative. 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm catching up, but working in order:

@Pops -

Since I don't trust that your vote really reflects who you think is mafia (see pushing for O lynch while voting for Grujah) - would you care to chime in on the Captain Frisk vs. DSell debate?

I haven't made up my mind.  Robz seems to disagree with me about you.  Dsell has been forgettable all game and I do wonder about the reason behind that.  He's certainly not an exciting lynch.

My instincts still point to C_F, but it's not at all slamdunk.  There's pros to lynching Dsell.  He's the only player alive O really seemed to avoid (Dsell has cited interactions, but I forgot those interactions, and that may be because O and Dsell made them forgettable interactions, e.g. safe play).  If Dsell flips town, O would seem to be the person who doesn't avoid interacting with scumpartners (a minority), and we could look into the porpoises behind his interactions, swimming in hyperactive ecstasy.

And I do have to put some stock in theorel saying Dsell is scum.  I have a pretty null read on Dsell, so a confirmed teammate's opinion would take precedence over mine.  Galzria thought C_F was scum, but Galzria also thought I was scum, so I don't think he was on top of this agme.

Dsell lynch is a good lynch but it's not my lynch.  I guess that's why I didn't talk about it much before prompted.  I do see myself voting on it today.

emphasis mine
So if I've read it correctly:  Dsell is not an exciting lynch, cause your instincts point to Frisk: but DSell is a good lynch, (although you don't want anyone to think its your lynch), but you'll likely join in.

Given that Frisk was asking his question out of concern that your votes don't necessarily reflect who you think is mafia, do you think your answer tells him (and the rest of the players) who you think is mafia and who is not (w/r/t the subset of just Frisk and Dsell)?

[Dsell]

DSell - who do you consider to be the most likely suspects among the O voters and why?

Axxle. By a mile. And I'm baffled by Robz' defense of the fifth spot as "not a bus." But honestly there's only a few choices since several O voters are confirmed or mostly confirmed townies. I don't feel amazingly confident in any of them, though, hence my continued suspicion of two non-voters.

I got a weird feeling about this post:

I'm fine with an O lynch if that's the direction we're going.  A vote count would be useful.

Vote: O (L-2)
O you might need to claim if you haven't already.

And then his response to me saying that O may be gone seemed like he was sorry for his vote. It felt like he could have been setting up a scumbuddy for a roleclaim. But again, I'm putting a lot more faith in logic this game rather than my gut, so I do not think he should be a lynch target.

[Robz888]

DSell - who do you consider to be the most likely suspects among the O voters and why?

Axxle. By a mile. And I'm baffled by Robz' defense of the fifth spot as "not a bus." But honestly there's only a few choices since several O voters are confirmed or mostly confirmed townies. I don't feel amazingly confident in any of them, though, hence my continued suspicion of two non-voters.

I got a weird feeling about this post:

I'm fine with an O lynch if that's the direction we're going.  A vote count would be useful.

Vote: O (L-2)
O you might need to claim if you haven't already.

And then his response to me saying that O may be gone seemed like he was sorry for his vote. It felt like he could have been setting up a scumbuddy for a roleclaim. But again, I'm putting a lot more faith in logic this game rather than my gut, so I do not think he should be a lynch target.

You know, this is a valid point. It does read like he wanted O to claim something.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

--snip--
...But sure, he could be an investigative immune SK, I suppose. If he is, SFS really screwed us! I may have screwed us by spending the one-shot, or by reporting the results at a bad time (or at all), but I specifically mentioned that inv. immune SK was one of the 3 possibilities.

--snip--

[Robz888]

--snip--
...But sure, he could be an investigative immune SK, I suppose. If he is, SFS really screwed us! I may have screwed us by spending the one-shot, or by reporting the results at a bad time (or at all), but I specifically mentioned that inv. immune SK was one of the 3 possibilities.

--snip--

I didn't mean that you intentionally screwed us, or even that you did the wrong thing... just that as a result of your Tables pick, we were forever screwed. I wasn't blaming you.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

VOLTGLOSS - IS IT PERMISSIBLE FOR YOU, AS MOD, TO EDIT YOUR OWN POSTS? THERE SEEM TO BE TWO DIFFERENT VOTECOUNTS LABELED 2-13 (ONE AT POST 1745 AND ONE AT 1792).  THERE ARE ALSO TWO DIFFERENT COUNTS LABELED 2-21 (ONE AT 2049 AND ONE AT 2091).

I recommend strongly against renumbering, but if there are no objections, perhaps the first occurrence of each could be labeled "A of B" and the second labeled "B of B").  I only bring it up because it has screwed me a couple of times researching vote counts.

[Voltgloss]

VOLTGLOSS - IS IT PERMISSIBLE FOR YOU, AS MOD, TO EDIT YOUR OWN POSTS? THERE SEEM TO BE TWO DIFFERENT VOTECOUNTS LABELED 2-13 (ONE AT POST 1745 AND ONE AT 1792).  THERE ARE ALSO TWO DIFFERENT COUNTS LABELED 2-21 (ONE AT 2049 AND ONE AT 2091).

I recommend strongly against renumbering, but if there are no objections, perhaps the first occurrence of each could be labeled "A of B" and the second labeled "B of B").  I only bring it up because it has screwed me a couple of times researching vote counts.

Requested edits have been made.

[popsofctown]

I lost a longer phonepost.

Might is a scummy word when it is in a statement that should be absolute. Always l one claim always axxle knows he knows precious. vote axxle

[Robz888]

I lost a longer phonepost.

Might is a scummy word when it is in a statement that should be absolute. Always l one claim always axxle knows he knows precious. vote axxle

I would like you to try that second sentence again.

I agree that this is better evidence against Axxle than I have yet seen. I don't know that it dissuades me from Dsell. I would like to hear Tables and Jo's thoughts about it.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3-9

Captain_Frisk (1): Axxle
Dsell (3): Robz888, jotheonah, Tables
Axxle (1): popsofctown

Not voting {4}: Dsell, Captain_Frisk, Glooble, SwitchedFromStarcraft

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Thursday, July 12, 4:59 p.m. EDT

NOTE:  I just now realized I'd been saying "Tuesday, July 11" in previous votecounts - forgetting that Tuesday is July 10.  My intent was always for the lynch deadline to be Wednesday, July 11.  Extending the deadline due to the forum outage clears this up:  the lynch deadline is definitely Thursday, July 12.  Apologies for the confusion.

[popsofctown]

Always L_one claim. And axxle knows enough to give that as an academeic firm announcement rather than hushed coaching

[Glooble]

Ok, the forum outage really screwed me. That was the time I was planning on looking over things.

I would be more likely to support an Axxle lynch than a DSell lynch at this point. If it comes down to the wire, we'll see.

[Dsell]

Ok, the forum outage really screwed me. That was the time I was planning on looking over things.

I would be more likely to support an Axxle lynch than a DSell lynch at this point. If it comes down to the wire, we'll see.

What about C_F? I know you think jo is town but I think that C_F is the "duh" lynch here. Really the difference is the people who think C_F is town because he didn't hammer and those who don't think that fact clears or condemns him.

I don't support an Axxle lynch over jo or C_F.

Jo has been saying that he believes me to be town most of this game, and then all of a sudden he's on my bandwagon. For the thinnest of reasons. I think there is a strong chance that he's either mafia or SK, man he's scummy.

[jotheonah]

Ok, the forum outage really screwed me. That was the time I was planning on looking over things.

I would be more likely to support an Axxle lynch than a DSell lynch at this point. If it comes down to the wire, we'll see.

What about C_F? I know you think jo is town but I think that C_F is the "duh" lynch here. Really the difference is the people who think C_F is town because he didn't hammer and those who don't think that fact clears or condemns him.

I don't support an Axxle lynch over jo or C_F.

Jo has been saying that he believes me to be town most of this game, and then all of a sudden he's on my bandwagon. For the thinnest of reasons. I think there is a strong chance that he's either mafia or SK, man he's scummy.

Have I? I think you'll find that, when I've referenced you at all, it's been as a null read, not as a town read. And I've almost always attached the caveat "The fact that I have no read on him really bothers me."  Now that PoE has made me less suspicious, for one reason or another, of others, it's bothering me more. Plus I learn SO MUCH from your flip.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'll not be supporting an Axxle lynch at this point, if for no other reason than he's a new candidate relative to the others that we are seriously discussing.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

OK, I'll do it.  Here's Dsell at L-1.

VOTE: Dsell

[Dsell]

STOP. PLEASE UNVOTE.