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[popsofctown]

i am unable to view all posts in this thread, Safari complains about a slow script.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Erm, I really don't think I post infrequently enough to be lumped with the other semi-lurkers. Not that it really matters, but I at least post 1-3 times almost every day...

I dont currently have time to investigate this claim, but if anyone is keeping post counts it should be easy to verify or debunk.  One of the reasons I chose Tables to investigate is that (at the time) he had almost no posts - the only person we had heard from less (as I recall) was Green Opal.

I know that I'm not posting a lot, and that perhaps things are running together for me, but the two people I feel like we almost never hear from are Grujah and Tables.  If I'm wrong, then disabuse me of my notions.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Explain yo'self O. IIRC you're in the SFS is obvtown camp. SFS claims to have investigated and cleared Tables. You just accused and voted Tables (I'm assuming that means you think he's mafia).

So do you (A) no longer believe SFS is town, (B) believe SFS is town but Tables somehow investigated falsely, or (C) believe Tables is town but voted him anyway?

DUDE, wtf?  I VERY specifically stated that I investigated Tables and he came back as town, THEN ARDUOUSLY SPELLED OUT WHAT THAT MEANT. I then later went through that again in a later post, ARDUOSLY NOT QUOTING VOLTGLOSS AS PM.  NONE OF THAT "CLEARS TABLES".

Please discontinue misrepresenting what I have said.

[popsofctown]

You're being picky SFS.  In a game with confirmed sanity cops, an innocent is generally good enough that you don't touch a player at all before LyLo, and even then you probably don't touch him unless he is mega superscummy.  The investigation is valid 90% of the time, based on the probability of investigation immunity. There's probably one immune player per ten.  Good SKs will pick kill immunity, not investigation immunity.  No one ever scumhunts at a 90% level, if people did, we'd play games with 7 town and 5 mafia, and then still have to give the mafia power roles.  So you forced with the only rational choice of trusting the investigation entirely and accepting a loss a 10% of the time.  Which sucks when that 10% has nothing to do with scumhunting but your hand is forced.  Which is why I find town colored investigation immunity to be retarded. 

[popsofctown]

it's bad design.

[O]

Vote:SFS for making crap arguments and... no, not really. 

Unvote, Vote:Glooble because I like making the Mods life difficult apparently.

[Galzria]

Man, two hours in a Movie, and I get out to find a downright explosion of activity.

Well, I've still got some popcorn left, so...

[Robz888]

I wouldn't say it was useful activity...

[Galzria]

In all honesty, here's my read on O's slipup:

It's scummy. Of course it is. But when I put my list together of suspicion levels the investigation had slipped my mind as well. I didn't have Tables anywhere near the top of my list, but with close to 80 pages it's not hard for things to get forgotten.

eHalcyon admits in M-III to finding my case against Jo early D1 compelling, but as we neared the end of the day he pounded away at me because he recalled thinking otherwise. I lost my cool over eH's play there, and it was an honest mistake.

Hell, in another game I'm involved in, I forgot MY OWN proposal from early in the game. We all do our best, and sometimes we forget things.

Now, this doesn't EXCUSE the player for those mistakes, and they should be held accountable. Certainly in the face of no better information it's a good enough misplay to consider action on. I'm convinced we lack better information however.

[Galzria]

I'm *not* convinced we lack better information. Silly little 3 letter word. So important.

[Captain_Frisk]

iPhone posting here-will follow up with proper post when back at pc

We are running out of time and heading Into weekend. 

ReAsons to follow:

Vote: grujah

[Captain_Frisk]

Wanted to make sure discussion starts before everyone dissapears

[Galzria]

Wanted to make sure discussion starts before everyone dissapears

*poof*

[Captain_Frisk]

Wanted to make sure discussion starts before everyone dissapears

*poof*

Ok - boy nursing now... composing real post.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

You're being picky SFS.  In a game with confirmed sanity cops, an innocent is generally good enough that you don't touch a player at all before LyLo, and even then you probably don't touch him unless he is mega superscummy.  The investigation is valid 90% of the time, based on the probability of investigation immunity. There's probably one immune player per ten.  Good SKs will pick kill immunity, not investigation immunity.  No one ever scumhunts at a 90% level, if people did, we'd play games with 7 town and 5 mafia, and then still have to give the mafia power roles.  So you forced with the only rational choice of trusting the investigation entirely and accepting a loss a 10% of the time.  Which sucks when that 10% has nothing to do with scumhunting but your hand is forced.  Which is why I find town colored investigation immunity to be retarded.

Pops, my intent was not to be picky, but rather to hold people accountable, which I have promised to do, and to prevent misinformation from being spread.  Given that several subsequent posts have been in the vein of "oh yeah, I forgot about that" I think its important that we accurately remember exactly what "that" was.

@Tables:  Can you explain the dichotomy between your assertions in posts #1923 and 1927 (sorry for the lack of quotes, I'm on an unfamiliar laptop with no ******* mouse but the built-in and I'm really having trouble getting everything to work easily).  In one of those two posts, you say (paraphrasing) "I don't think I'm lurking, I post 1 to 3 times a day almost every day".  In the other, you say (paraphrasing) "I dont post that often cause I'm not online often".  I don't see how both can be true, yet these assertions are only 4 posts apart.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'll try to check in on the thread again later tonight, but it will likely be in the morning tomorrow.

[Captain_Frisk]

So - I started with the ASSumption that we had at least 1 mafia on the Axxle1 wagon.

This is

Galzria, J, Captain_Frisk, SFS, Pops, Glooble, Grujah, theorel

I then started ruling out people based on townread / etc.

theorel - dead
Captain_Frisk - this is me - but obviously not everyone else can cross this out.
SFS - 1 shot town claim

Glooble - twinclaim - If either of them are likely to be Mafia - I suspect J more
Jonah - twinclaim.  Still suspicious, but I'm giving him a pass for today. 

Now that leaves:

Grujah, Pops and Galzria.  I tend to think that mafia would be just fine letting a no-lynch happen, or at the very least letting us go up to the wire, and while I have suspicions of both Pops and Galz, I feel that they've each made a reasonable number of good points - and have generally been scumhunting in some manner.  I don't like Galz's crazy serial killer theory town gambit etc, and I don't really like his Glooble vote.  I also don't really like pops' recent O lynch attempt, since we're grasping at straws.  That said, I'm not 100% convinced on either of them, and at other times I'm thankful for insightful play.  Pops - your recent rebuttal to SFS was actually a reasonable argument vs. your usual blip... although can you please just start hitting the quote button?

So that leaves Grujah.  He is a lurker.  I don't know for sure that he's mafia, but I do feel that his odds of being mafia are in the same general ballpark as pops / Galz. 

If I was going to mislynch one of those 3 - I would choose Grujah in a hearbeat - ESPECIALLY as we lose more and more town, the lurkers are going to be an increasing liability - even if they are town.  Since I believe that lynch with chance @ mafia is better than no lynch: Vote: Grujah

[Glooble]

I like your thinking, Frisk. The fact is, we have too many bandwagons, and the only one that seems likely to result in a lynch is still someone I'm pretty sure is town. Most of us have someone we would be comfortable lynching, but if we can't come to a consensus, we're screwed.

I think Grujah has a high probability of being scum. I am now almost certain one of the mafia is someone with a very low post count. I know it's not me. I am leaning toward SFS being town, but regardless of my own feelings, enough people trust him that he will not get lynched today, so voting for him would be useless. I think we've officially Reached That Point.

Vote: Grujah

[Glooble]

oh, and obviously I unvote pops. I forgot, sorry. I'm still watching you, pops. I encourage our cop, if we have one, to investigate him or Galz. Or joth. Or me, for that matter. Any of those four things would be helpful.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-20

jotheonah (4): Dsell, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Tables
Glooble (2): Galzria, O
Axxle (1): jotheonah
O (2): Grujah, popsofctown
Grujah (2): Captain_Frisk, Glooble

Not voting {1}: Axxle

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Monday, June 25, 9:59 a.m. EDT

[O]

I'm willing to consider a Grujah wagon over a Glooble wagon, but Gloobles on it... also if I vote Grujah I'm sure everyone will call it an OMGUS vote.

I honestly can't say I have great reads atm. Jo reads town, very town. Tables and SFS keep topping each other over with inane/scummy posts and yet our two closest things to confirmed town. Glooble seems slightly scummier to me than Grujah but both are relatively scummy, especially because Grujah's vote on me seems more like a calculated wagon started then a reaction to anything I said, mostly because I've never really posted much of a read on Grujah I think.

Galz reads townish to me aswell I guess.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm willing to consider a Grujah wagon over a Glooble wagon, but Gloobles on it... also if I vote Grujah I'm sure everyone will call it an OMGUS vote.

I honestly can't say I have great reads atm. Jo reads town, very town. Tables and SFS keep topping each other over with inane/scummy posts and yet our two closest things to confirmed town. Glooble seems slightly scummier to me than Grujah but both are relatively scummy, especially because Grujah's vote on me seems more like a calculated wagon started then a reaction to anything I said, mostly because I've never really posted much of a read on Grujah I think.

Galz reads townish to me aswell I guess.

I have to say, I was less than enthused for glooble to be the first to join me.

[popsofctown]

Ok, if this post lacks context, it's because f.ds is lagging for me right now, I swear.

Grujah is a good consensus lynch this close to deadline.  His vote history is terrible, he lurks, most of the people who do pipe up in thread read townish so PoE points at lurkers. 

Vote: Grujah

We'll have another three weeks to figure out the active players.

@SFS

-Since O's defense had nothing to do with the negligible possibility Tables is scum, joth's simplification of your investigation is a reasonable representation.  Thus you were nitpicking.  I'm not trying to say you knew you were nitpicking, but you were.  Joth is probably aware the failure rate for your investigation is but a fraction, and didn't bother cluttering his post with that possibility.

This argument isn't very indicative of anyone's alignment so I should probably stop.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Grujah


he said, surprising no one.

[O]

Well, I guess I have to wagon at some point

Vote: Grujah