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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens  (Read 2245 times)

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StrangerSon712

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2024, 02:40:02 pm »
+1

Good judging!

I'm not sure you fully understand the drawback of Old Teacher. It's Pathfinding, but you get a copper with Buy in your deck for the trouble. If you gain it again, it only gets worse. You can say the junk isn't as big a deal as the gap between $6 and $8, but the "cost" is there.

Literati has some potential memory issues, but they aren't as common as you are thinking. It puts the card (that will be discarded later) on top of your deck immediately. This will sometimes cause memory issues when topdecking cards with $ or Actions, and very rarely cause ghost effects with Taskmaster or Cargo Ship (like Improve can), but I personally don't think those issues will come up often enough to present a significant problem. "Would discard from play" is used as an identifier to prevent topdecking Durations and thrones playing Durations.

I also added a link to the image inside the tool in my submission. I don't usually post images here so sorry that it didn't work.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2024, 03:10:29 pm by StrangerSon712 »
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Tiago

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2024, 03:42:34 pm »
+1

Great judging!

A few comments on mine though: Surveil is absolutely not strictly better than Pathfinding. The simplest case is that your opponent is playing pure Big Money, while you have some Action cards. In this case Surveil is useless for you, way worse than Pathfinding. And there's some counterplay: you can get only a few copies of each card, as you would for Warlord, and then Surveil doesn't do that much. You can also use it to remove other players' Spy tokens, which you didn't even consider.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2024, 04:59:06 pm »
+4

Congrats to valb for the win! Sucks to get runner-up a second time in a row, but hey what can you do. At least I have a cool idea for when I do eventually win one of these again. Thanks for the judgment!

Imo, runner-up is the best position. You get the glory of knowing that with a coin-flip you would have won, but also you don't have to do judging next week. Congrats on that.

Dang!!

I considered making future greatness cost 10.

Maybe i should have it cost 8 but you trash that card you have in play.
Wish i had thought of that, its a cool design space

Based on the sample Kingdoms I looked at, I think 10 isn't a good cost for it. I think 8 would work better. Or 7 with a drawback.

Good judging!

I'm not sure you fully understand the drawback of Old Teacher. It's Pathfinding, but you get a copper with Buy in your deck for the trouble. If you gain it again, it only gets worse. You can say the junk isn't as big a deal as the gap between $6 and $8, but the "cost" is there.

Literati has some potential memory issues, but they aren't as common as you are thinking. It puts the card (that will be discarded later) on top of your deck immediately. This will sometimes cause memory issues when topdecking cards with $ or Actions, and very rarely cause ghost effects with Taskmaster or Cargo Ship (like Improve can), but I personally don't think those issues will come up often enough to present a significant problem. "Would discard from play" is used as an identifier to prevent topdecking Durations and thrones playing Durations.

I also added a link to the image inside the tool in my submission. I don't usually post images here so sorry that it didn't work.

Copper with a +Buy is a super valuable card in decks that can draw themselves, and decks with path-finding are going to be able to draw themselves. So the drawback is present, but it isn't huge. Even Three ruined Markets are great cards in decks that have pathfinding and lost arts and training. I've designed many cards who have a drawback of being a dead card (I even designed a type called Companion which are not playable and only do things when you gain/trash them), so I definitely considered that part of the design.

You're right about literati. I over-stated those memory issues in my initial judging, and I should have re-written it a little more softly. Thank you.



Great judging!

A few comments on mine though: Surveil is absolutely not strictly better than Pathfinding. The simplest case is that your opponent is playing pure Big Money, while you have some Action cards. In this case Surveil is useless for you, way worse than Pathfinding. And there's some counterplay: you can get only a few copies of each card, as you would for Warlord, and then Surveil doesn't do that much. You can also use it to remove other players' Spy tokens, which you didn't even consider.

In  the scenario you mentioned, Surveil is still lacking in design, since it's a useless event. Its either too strong, or too weak, no in-between. You're right that I neglected the remove tokens part. I did consider that but forgot when writing it up. In brief my thoughts were that it was political -- three opponents, one of them has their spy token, do I buy it -- which makes it fail the criteria I set out for how likely this card fits in existing Dominion paradigms. It also makes it too strong because we have to keep buying it to remove other spy tokens or place our own, putting us in an un-fun (for me) stalemate.
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BryGuy

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2024, 06:10:15 pm »
+1

Reinstate
Since the Shelters are not viable.

:)
Quote
Filtering • $5 • Event
Move your Filter token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card and discard a card.)
:)
This is a new token that does less than +1 Card, but more than others.
Oops forgot to judge mine.  :-\

anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2024, 09:09:10 pm »
+1

Reinstate
Since the Shelters are not viable.

:)
Quote
Filtering • $5 • Event
Move your Filter token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card and discard a card.)
:)
This is a new token that does less than +1 Card, but more than others.
Oops forgot to judge mine.  :-\

My apologies. I missed this because you edited a post rather than make a new post. I tried to prevent this from happening by putting this contest guidelines:

Contest Guidelines
    ...
    • Make a new post if you update your entry, please do not edit posts. I include this because I might miss your update!

How can I make that guideline clearer in the future? I didn't purposefully miss yours, but it's a lot easier to miss posts when they are edits made, because it depends when I look at that post whether I see the edits or not.  I'm also assuming you didn't purposefully miss this part of the guidelines, so I'm open to feedback about how to be clearer there.

For a quick judging -- this card seems balanced but a little less exciting than other entries. Tokens are often about feeling like you're super-powering up a card. The filter token is not a very strong super power, so it doesn't feel as fun as the others. It's still strong, just not as fun as other tokens, in my opinion only.
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2024, 02:37:43 am »
+2

Ordinary man, i think youbwere clear enough. Sometimes people just misses a rule or announcement. It happens.
It has happened when im the one announcing it, i forget my own thing!
All you can do it go “here is the rule” and remind people.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2024, 05:46:51 am »
+2

no next contest? :'(

anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2024, 03:26:28 pm »
+2

valb_7k has only 5 posts in this forum, so it is possible that they are not very active here. I've sent them a DM alerting them of winning the contest. If they do not respond in the next 48 hours, I think it is only fair that we proceed down to Augie279.
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Augie279

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #218: Tokens
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2024, 03:50:30 pm »
+1

If they do not respond in the next 48 hours, I think it is only fair that we proceed down to Augie279.

That's alright with me. Of all things, I was going to suggest the same myself.
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