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Author Topic: Plunder is online  (Read 7079 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2022, 10:59:09 am »
0

Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.

Once again, Donald gets his card ideas from looking at the variants forum. NOT from looking at fan cards, but from looking at responses to fan cards, where people say things like "hey, you shouldn't make a Silver+ that costs $4 because it's a bad idea" or "cards shouldn't cost exactly ", and then he just goes "Oh yeah?"
It was never ever a been a fan notion that Silver with a bonus shall not be priced at $4 but Donald’s old design rule.

I know, but this was true with a lot of the types of things I'm talking about. Donald laid-forth a principle, and then people repeated it in response to fan cards a bunch, and then Donald eventually designed cards that changed the principle.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2022, 11:00:28 am »
+1

Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.
Didn't Patron break it?

No, there's enough differences between Actions and Treasures in general that an action that provides +1 action can't be automatically compared to a treasure. Among other things, you can draw Patron dead with something like Smithy.
No.
Actions are on average stronger than their Treasure counterpart. See the long discussion about Candlestick Maker vs. Ducat. So Patron, being better than its hypothetical Treasure counterpart, did break that design rule.

It doesn't matter that Actions are on average stronger; the point is that they're different and interact with different things.
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AJD

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2022, 11:07:50 am »
+2

"Nearby" might the best groan-worthy pun name for a card-shaped thing in Dominion.

("Doubloons" isn't bad either.)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2022, 11:27:10 am »
+2

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold. Technically in games with Delve you don't ever buy Silver either, but at least there you still get Silver.
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Ethan

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2022, 11:33:05 am »
0

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.
Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.
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AJD

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2022, 11:37:53 am »
+2

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.
Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.

And, you know, sometimes you have Encampments or Legionaries or whatever.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2022, 12:07:34 pm »
+2

I should have known better than to make a general rule sound like something that would always be true. I mean of course there's edge cases and exceptions; wouldn't be Dominion otherwise.
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Ydobon

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2022, 12:13:04 pm »
0

Edit: The following would happen, if Reckless would replay cards instead of following their instructions twice.
Misinterpreted Reckless Inventors with Way of the Horse ⇒ ∞ cost reduction :o

Your Deck: empty
Your Hand: Inventor

As long as you wish, repeat the following
Play Inventor
→ gain Inventor
→ play Inventor again (Reckless)
  → use Way of the Horse
    → draw Inventor
    → return Inventor to its pile
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 01:31:14 pm by Ydobon »
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AJD

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2022, 12:30:36 pm »
+1

Reckless doesn't allow you to use a Way for the repetition of a card, fortunately.
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Ydobon

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2022, 01:25:09 pm »
+1

Reckless doesn't allow you to use a Way for the repetition of a card, fortunately.

Oh, yes. Thanks AJD. I fixed the loop and put in a new topic: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21572
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mathdude

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2022, 01:48:01 pm »
0

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.
Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.

Or Jeweled Egg is the only Loot-giver with no trashing (or poor trashing).

Or Search, but it's taking too long to empty a pile.

With Cutthroat, you may buy the odd Gold to activate the cards and get them back in your deck, if others aren't buying them for you.

And I'm sure there are other instances too.  But these are just a few I found.
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Águia Branca

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2022, 02:14:26 pm »
+4

Or Jeweled Egg is the only Loot-giver with no trashing (or poor trashing).
I'm fairly certain they were talking about Looting, the event, not just any old way of gaining Loot.
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mathdude

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2022, 10:56:34 pm »
0

Or Jeweled Egg is the only Loot-giver with no trashing (or poor trashing).
I'm fairly certain they were talking about Looting, the event, not just any old way of gaining Loot.

That definitely makes sense!
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Holger

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2022, 06:18:47 am »
+1

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold. Technically in games with Delve you don't ever buy Silver either, but at least there you still get Silver.

It's similar to Wedding, which also makes buying a Gold practically obsolete (paying 1 debt extra for 1 VP is a real bargain) , but Wedding does still gain the Gold.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 06:29:00 am by Holger »
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Holger

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2022, 06:27:28 am »
+1

It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.
Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.

Hammer can also be worse than Gold when you don't want any (more) $4- cards.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2022, 10:45:11 pm »
+3

I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2022, 01:37:03 am »
+3

I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.
Pious Graverobber
Friendly Torturer   
Rich Poor House   
Cheap Treasury
Reckless Tactician
Patient Chariot Race
Fawning Overlord
Inherited Hireling
Shy Recruiter
Hasty Sculptor
Tireless Wine Merchant
Inspiring Scout
I'm not sure what the closest thing to the opposite of "Fated" would be...

At least Pious Den of Sin or Pious Devil's Workshop is impossible, but at the cost of also missing a Pious Monastery.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 01:41:54 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2022, 05:58:08 am »
+1

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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2022, 06:25:34 am »
0

 It also has some highly valueable life lessons. Namely the best Crew is a Reckless Crew. And the best Landing Party is a Reckless Landing Party. EDIT: And a Captain also really likes Reckless stuff.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 06:28:34 am by grrgrrgrr »
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2022, 06:33:16 am »
0

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2022, 06:32:55 am »
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I think the costs of the cards in this set surprised me more than any other set. Very interested in secret histories around playtesting.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2022, 06:47:58 am »
0

I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.
Pious Graverobber
Friendly Torturer   
Rich Poor House   
Cheap Treasury
Reckless Tactician
Patient Chariot Race
Fawning Overlord
Inherited Hireling
Shy Recruiter
Hasty Sculptor
Tireless Wine Merchant
Inspiring Scout
I'm not sure what the closest thing to the opposite of "Fated" would be...

At least Pious Den of Sin or Pious Devil's Workshop is impossible, but at the cost of also missing a Pious Monastery.


The Reckless Tactician is worse than a regular Tactician though. They get the same job done, but they die after doing it once.

If people see a reminder that the Poor House is Rich, they take money away from it.

There are Ways to make a so called Tireless Wine Merchant live up to their name, but normally they're the same as usual.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2022, 12:55:32 am »
0

I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.

I'm not sure what the closest thing to the opposite of "Fated" would be...



It depends on which meaning of "fated" you use.  This page has a pretty exhaustive list

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-opposite-of/fate.html
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DooWopDJ

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2022, 01:53:37 pm »
0

Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?

I too was confused how this card 'qualified' as a Treasure?  I like the mechanics of the card the the 'Treasure' type is confusing, as it seemed more like an Action - Duration Type
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segura

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Re: Plunder is online
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2022, 02:01:24 pm »
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Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?

I too was confused how this card 'qualified' as a Treasure?  I like the mechanics of the card the the 'Treasure' type is confusing, as it seemed more like an Action - Duration Type
While most Treasures do produce Coins, Horn of Plenty, War Chest, Sunken Treasure and Tools are gainers and plenty of other Treasures do not unconditionally produce Coins. For example Tiara and King's Cache are Thrones can theoretically fail to yield Coins and Crown is a Throne that fatils to do so quite often.

So the notion that all Treasures should somehow always produce Coins is pretty weird given that this has not been the case for over 10 years.
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