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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?  (Read 6601 times)

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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2022, 02:17:17 am »
+4

Lumberjack
$4
Action - Night - Duration

If it's your Action phase +2 Buys $2. Otherwise add a token here per unused buy you have. At the start of your next turn, remove them for +1 Card each.


- I decided to make a card that allows you to turn unused buys into something else. The Night option allows you to turn unused buys into draw on your next turn.
- The action option is there because the card itself has to be a source of +buys to keep the Night part relevant in a kingdom with no other sources of buys.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 03:29:56 am by xyz123 »
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Augie279

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2022, 02:21:15 am »
+1

Otherwise at the start of your next turn +1 Card per unused Buy you have.

Needs to put Tokens on itself like Garrison. Otherwise, it'll count the +Buys you have at the start of your next turn, not when you initially play the card as intended.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2022, 03:30:27 am »
+1


Needs to put Tokens on itself like Garrison. Otherwise, it'll count the +Buys you have at the start of your next turn, not when you initially play the card as intended.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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BryGuy

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2022, 09:47:13 am »
+1

For context, i use Gophers for future Buys, just like Coffers and Villagers for future coins and actions.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 04:46:54 pm by BryGuy »
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IlstrawberrySeed

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2022, 02:22:53 pm »
+2

It should either be "take a gopher," matching the technical terms, or "+1 gopher," matching coffers/villagers/vp shorthand.
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nagdon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2022, 04:59:01 pm »
+3

I feel like the "can't buy 0" rider on Old Bridge is really only there to justify the card costing $1.  It will almost never come up when trying to buy any other card, and just because you can't stack copies of a card doesn't mean it's balanced.  Candlestick Maker and Ducat are both comparable to this (being non-terminal cards that give +1 Buy), and they both cost $2.  Herbalist is also similar, and it doesn't even replace the action.  I think you're undervaluing the bridge effect.

I also don't get the flavor.  "Old Bridge" conjures to mind a rickety bridge that can't take too much weight, yet this card says that it can't take too little wight?

I think that the simple "+1 Action +1 Buy, cards cost $1 less this turn" card would be a balanced card for $4 that is comparable to Bridge: initially the +$1 of Bridge is stronger than the +1 Action, but it is significantly easier to build a megaturn when you don't need so many villages (or you can use the villages to support e.g. smithy variants). Also note that, similarly to Bridge Troll, there would be lots of stuff bought for $0 in the last few important turns, because Coppers are usually trashed and getting a Silver / Gold is almost always weaker than yet another copy of "+1 Action +1 Buy -1 cost". Personally I would dislike this card, because it is too centralizing: the optimal strategy is to trash quickly, get as many copies of it as you can, and then empty three piles. (Other cost reducers are more complex: with Highway, you need to get Buys/gains, with Bridge, Inventor and Bridge Troll you need to get villages.)

I added the "can't buy 0" condition to rule out decks that use this card as the only payload and make pileouts a bit more interesting (taking the last Estate may be difficult...). And once this condition is present, the cost of $1 ensures that it is easy to get the first Old Bridge, but it is difficult to buy up many copies of it quickly (unless there is another strong source of +Buy) – which mirrors the fact that the first copy of this is relatively weak, but many copies are very strong together.

These mean that Old Bridge differs from the existing cost reducers in the following areas: (1) it does not help gaining more copies of itself (2) it needs more $ production than other cost reducers and (3) it is less effective for pileouts (you cannot buy up the Estates or last few copies of cheap action cards).

I completely agree that the name "Old Bridge" is unfortunate – it fits the low cost, but does not fit the "cannot gain cheap card" effect. Does anyone have a better idea?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2022, 02:33:48 am »
+2

I completely agree that the name "Old Bridge" is unfortunate – it fits the low cost, but does not fit the "cannot gain cheap card" effect. Does anyone have a better idea?

I think it's a great name. It's a rickety old bridge so you can't extend it (buy another one) or put too much weight on it (buy a bunch of cheap cards). It's the perfect name for a cheap card.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2022, 06:32:47 am »
+1

Gold reserve $5
Action - Duration

Now and at the beginning of next turn:
+1$
+1 buy
-
While in play, whenever you buy an card costing 5$ or more, gain an gold.


So i was looking for cases where if you would just gain it instead, you would break the game. This is 1 example. If it would say "Gain" you pile down the gold pile in 1 turn.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 01:51:35 pm by lompeluiten »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2022, 07:24:52 am »
+3

Gold reserve $5
Action - Duration

Now and at the beginning of next turn:
+1$
+1 buy
-
Whenever you buy an card costing 5$ or more, gain an gold.


So i was looking for cases where if you would just gain it instead, you would break the game. This is 1 example. If it would say "Gain" you pile down the gold pile in 1 turn.
Note that the way this is phrased, you would always get a Gold with a buy of $5 or more in games using this, since below-the-line effects are always active and not contingent on playing a card or it being in play. I assume that is not the intention.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2022, 12:56:52 pm »
+1



Quote
Picky Patron - $4
Action
+$3
+1 Buys
This turn, when you play a card costing $1 or more, –1 Buy. (You can't go below 0 Buys.)

A Woodcutter for $4 that gives +$3. The catch is that you will have vanishing Buys as each card you play (that costs more than $0) afterwards subtracts a buy. Combos nicely with +Buy cards as you break even after you play them. Not sure how appealing this is as a concept, but figured I'd give it a shot. Feedback appreciated.

Edit: Changed it to not subtract a Buy when you play Copper. This makes it a far more appealing early buy, but later game will require designing your deck to benefit from it or get rid of it. Thought about it having a ceiling instead of a floor, so only cards costing less than $5 subtract a Buy, but I am not sure that is as compelling a penalty. Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 06:05:11 pm by Xen3k »
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Augie279

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2022, 01:25:53 pm »
+3

This turn, when you play a card, –1 Buy. (You can't go below 0 Buys.)
As phrased, this counts plays of Treasures, making it a lot weaker than it probably should be.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2022, 01:52:01 pm »
0

This turn, when you play a card, –1 Buy. (You can't go below 0 Buys.)
As phrased, this counts plays of Treasures, making it a lot weaker than it probably should be.

That is intended in the current design. Like I said, I am unsure how appealing it would be. I could limit it to playing Action cards, but I am not sure that is all that interesting a drawback to play and design a deck around.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2022, 01:56:57 pm »
+6

My Submission:



Quote
Symposium • $6 • Action
+2 Cards
You may play an Action card from your hand. This turn, when you gain a copy of that card, if you bought it, +1VP.

My submission is Symposium. One of my favorite on-Buy effects (now on-gain-during-buy-phase) is Colonnade. This is a combo of that effect and a Lab. You only get the VP token for the card played by Symposium's virtual +Action, and only one. However, if you play multiple copies of Symposium (and play the same card with them) then you can get more per buy. Plus, unlike Colonnade, there's not a 6VP per player cap. There's some similarity to Collection as well, with the VP token effect being more limited, but with the card being more playable/spamable.

It also fits very nicely with the theme of Empires (which contains the Landmark that inspired it).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 01:59:49 pm by emtzalex »
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nagdon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2022, 07:40:53 pm »
0

I also like Colonnade and it is nice to see another card with that kind of effect :)

As the wording of Symposium is already similar to Imp, what would you think about giving it an Imp-like "that you don't have a copy of in play" restriction? This would allow you to e.g. decrease the cost from $6, add +1 Buy and/or increase the VP bonus back to the original +2VP / buy of Colonnade; and the fact that you cannot stack more +VP onto each buy would make this card less similar to Collection and Groundskeeper (which give 1 VP / gain, but you usually stack many copies of them).
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Snes

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2022, 12:18:18 am »
+2



Quote
Tapestry - $5
Action

+1 Action
+$2
Discard any number of cards, then draw that many.
-
Once per turn: When you gain this, you may spend an unused Buy to gain another Tapestry.

Tapestry lets you spend extra buys to weave the tapestry even longer!  I initially designed the top half as just being Peddler, but I thought it would lead to the pile being emptied way too quickly.  By making it an Oasis+, I limit the potential of stuffing a deck full of them while (hopefully) still making them an okay buy even if you can't get the buy bonus.

I do wonder if it might play better if I changed it to +$1, +2 Cards, Discard 2 cards.

V0.2 EDIT: I think this plays a bit better.  Instead of an Oasis with +$1, it's now a Cellar with +$2.  I also changed the bottom effect to only trigger once per turn.  I think that's the simplest solution to prevent players with three buys from gaining three Tapestries for only $5.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 01:23:11 am by Snes »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2022, 11:05:19 am »
0

I also like Colonnade and it is nice to see another card with that kind of effect :)

As the wording of Symposium is already similar to Imp, what would you think about giving it an Imp-like "that you don't have a copy of in play" restriction? This would allow you to e.g. decrease the cost from $6, add +1 Buy and/or increase the VP bonus back to the original +2VP / buy of Colonnade; and the fact that you cannot stack more +VP onto each buy would make this card less similar to Collection and Groundskeeper (which give 1 VP / gain, but you usually stack many copies of them).

I considered this, but that would mean the card would have to be cheaper and/or give other bonuses/more VP tokens. The risk with that is that while that change will usually mean that only one copy of a card is played with Symposium each turn, that's not the case with one-shots, especially those that return themselves to the Supply. In addition to Experiment, any card played using Way of the Horse or Way of the Butterfly can have multiple Symposia play them each turn. Especially with Experiment/WotH, you could quickly run up a ton of VP tokens. Instead, I made it very expensive, and able to stack without trickery.
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J410

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2022, 11:05:35 am »
+1

Quote
Thriving Market - $6 - Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$2

At the start of Clean-up, if you have any Buys
remaining, exchange this for Silent Market.
Quote
Silent Market - $4* - Action

+2 Coffers

At the start of Clean-up, if you have no Buys
remaining, exchange this for Thriving Market.

(This is not in the Supply)
A Grand Market variant. It gives you +Buys, but you have to use them up or it will go away for a while. Silent market does help a lot to get itself back in shape, or maybe you wanted the Coffers anyways.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 02:29:37 pm by J410 »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2022, 11:27:21 am »
+1

SNES, I suggest making Tapestry “if you bought it” rather than “if it’s your buy phase”. That way, you can’t spend multiple buys for a single purchase of the card, which should let you avoid making the base card weak to avoid peddler-like pile emptying and cascades.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2022, 12:22:41 pm »
0

Here is your 24 hour warning!
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2022, 01:52:38 pm »
0

Gold reserve $5
Action - Duration

Now and at the beginning of next turn:
+1$
+1 buy
-
Whenever you buy an card costing 5$ or more, gain an gold.


So i was looking for cases where if you would just gain it instead, you would break the game. This is 1 example. If it would say "Gain" you pile down the gold pile in 1 turn.
Note that the way this is phrased, you would always get a Gold with a buy of $5 or more in games using this, since below-the-line effects are always active and not contingent on playing a card or it being in play. I assume that is not the intention.
I looked at goons again, and now I get why it stated: "While in play". I added that to my submission
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2022, 03:16:53 pm »
0

Here is my entry

Quote
Tycoon
$5
Action
If this is the first time you played a Tycoon this turn, +3 Buys
At the end of your Buy phase this turn, +1 Coffers per unused Buy you have.

I intend this card to give +3 Coffers if the player does not use any of the extra +3 Buys and +4 Coffers if they don't buy anything. The bottom text should stack with future copies, so if a player used four of theses in one turn and bought only 1 Card that turn they would have +3 Buys leftover and they would gain +12 Coffers = +3buys*4copies. This card's Coffers are delayed so the card should be a bit weaker then most cards that give Coffers which can be used right away.
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AJL828

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2022, 06:00:52 pm »
+4



Barter
Action ($5)

+1 Card
+1 Action
This turn, when you gain a card you bought, gain a card costing up to $4.

With just one buy, this is essentially a delayed version of a cantrip $4 gainer (not bad, but doesn't allow for gain and play barring Villa or Cavalry). With multiple buys though, it can get pretty nuts, but will still (usually) have the restriction of only being able to use your new cards next turn. It obviously needs the "when buy" trigger since otherwise it could auto pile anything costing $4 or less by itself.
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SignError

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2022, 12:06:29 am »
0

I looked at goons again, and now I get why it stated: "While in play". I added that to my submission

A recent errata changed all “while in play” to “this turn” (Bridge Troll’s new wording is a good example).  It also replaced all “when buy” with “when gain,” sometimes including an “if you bought it” clause (see Hoard’s new wording).  You can apply that to your new wording with something like this:

On this turn and your next turn, when you gain a card costing $5 or more, if you bought it, gain a Gold. Now and at the start of next turn: +1 Buy and +$1.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2022, 01:46:27 pm »
+1

I looked at goons again, and now I get why it stated: "While in play". I added that to my submission

A recent errata changed all “while in play” to “this turn” (Bridge Troll’s new wording is a good example).  It also replaced all “when buy” with “when gain,” sometimes including an “if you bought it” clause (see Hoard’s new wording).  You can apply that to your new wording with something like this:

On this turn and your next turn, when you gain a card costing $5 or more, if you bought it, gain a Gold. Now and at the start of next turn: +1 Buy and +$1.
Jesus, i really dislike that wording. Sooo, wordy.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #166: Who still cares about buying?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2022, 02:26:53 pm »
0

Fortified Village
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
-
When you gain this, if you bought it, trash it. In games using this, when you draw your hand after Clean-up, you may discard an Action or Treasure card to gain a copy of this from the Trash to your hand.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 02:47:59 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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