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Author Topic: 2022 Additional Errata  (Read 14923 times)

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kieranmillar

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2022 Additional Errata
« on: June 25, 2022, 08:30:56 am »
+8

This has been posted everywhere else now so cross-posting it to here too: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=5616.0

34 more cards/landscapes from other sets also receiving errata when Hinterlands 2E drops.

Also a general rule change: returning to your action phase counts as the end of that buy phase for all things that trigger from the end of a buy phase e.g. Merchant Guild.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 08:41:45 am »
+6

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NoMoreFun

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2022, 09:05:29 am »
+1

"Non duration" is a nerf so I would have preferred a bit of variety. So for example:
  • Counterfeit could play any Treasure twice, but only trash it if it isn't a Duration
  • Crypt, instead of setting aside Treasures immediately, could let you optionally set aside Treasures as you discard them from play
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 09:06:39 am by NoMoreFun »
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Imrahil3

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 10:44:24 am »
+9

Kinda wish the rules for Durations simply stated they didn’t do their next-turn effects if not in play; that seems a lot cleaner than saying “non-Duration” on every card that could possibly play another card, and it allows a bit more flexibility, too.
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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 10:48:44 am »
+8

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.
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kieranmillar

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 11:51:18 am »
+4

Kinda wish the rules for Durations simply stated they didn’t do their next-turn effects if not in play; that seems a lot cleaner than saying “non-Duration” on every card that could possibly play another card, and it allows a bit more flexibility, too.
I Procession an Archive. What now happens to the 4 cards still set aside at the end of the turn?
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2022, 12:28:57 pm »
+1

What excites me the most about this is that on the 29th of june, Hinterlands 2E "has been completely previewed". This means that the previews start on june 27th!

Very glad about the Herbalist errata. Though this card would obviously be axed when the opportunity arrises.
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Imrahil3

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 12:29:51 pm »
+3

Kinda wish the rules for Durations simply stated they didn’t do their next-turn effects if not in play; that seems a lot cleaner than saying “non-Duration” on every card that could possibly play another card, and it allows a bit more flexibility, too.
I Procession an Archive. What now happens to the 4 cards still set aside at the end of the turn?

Theoretical FAQ: If a Duration card sets aside cards and is removed from play before finishing that card’s instructions, discard the set-aside cards.

That should cover most if not all edge cases, and it’s rare that one would intentionally Procession such a card anyways.

Edit: I think the only other edge case is Garrison, which puts tokens. So simply adding tokens to the above definition cleans everything up.

As an aside, this is 14 Duration cards with a weird ruling vs 25+ Durations arbitrarily shut out from cards otherwise.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 01:03:54 pm by Imrahil3 »
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joefarebrother

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2022, 01:02:16 pm »
0

What's the purpose of the prince change to non-command? I don't see any loops that were possible with it
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2022, 01:14:52 pm »
+2

What's the purpose of the prince change to non-command? I don't see any loops that were possible with it

Because Princed BoM could call Duration cards. And it was possible to Prince Estates that were under the effect of Inheritance (even if the Inherited card was of the Duration type. This included Prince itself).

Speaking of Inheritance, I think Inheritance should not be restricted from inheriting anything, but the Estates should gain all types from the Inherited cards during your turns. Which means that if you inherit a Duration card, the Estates themselves are, in fact, Duration cards.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 01:16:41 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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J Reggie

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2022, 04:35:06 pm »
+14

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.

These precious few months when Bonfire could trash curses

JW

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2022, 08:50:23 pm »
+10

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.

And with Cursed Gold, Ruins, trashers you no longer need. Very disappointing to lose all these interesting uses, when the confusing rules cases could have been handled so easily with lesser errata.
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Imrahil3

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2022, 09:17:16 pm »
+6

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.

And with Cursed Gold, Ruins, trashers you no longer need. Very disappointing to lose all these interesting uses, when the confusing rules cases could have been handled so easily with lesser errata.
Or just “non-Duration” like everything else.
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vidicate

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2022, 12:12:32 am »
+2

Sadface for Hermit and Exploration. And also, as others have said, Bonfire. Otherwise, the rest are fine by me. But yeah, I just see Exploration being a much more niche purchase with this change, compared to when you could use loopholes like buy-phase / Event gainers (which it was clearly designed around).

It will be interesting when/if Highway gets the errata in 2E. On the whole, it will be more powerful and simpler I think.

edit: a word
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 02:06:20 am by vidicate »
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faust

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2022, 01:21:31 am »
+4

Feels like Defiled Shrine should have triggered on "when you gain a Curse you bought". The way it is now, you can get Defiled Shrine VP when being attacked by Black Cat, or from Cursed Gold, which is not ideal.
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vidicate

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2022, 02:05:00 am »
0

^ Different, for sure. Sounds kind of cool—don’t know about how idealness factors in.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2022, 05:18:19 am »
+4

Feels like Defiled Shrine should have triggered on "when you gain a Curse you bought". The way it is now, you can get Defiled Shrine VP when being attacked by Black Cat, or from Cursed Gold, which is not ideal.

I think this change is fine and I wonder why it isn't "when you gain a Curse during your turn". Is it future proofing or is the interaction with Hideout too worrisome? And if you really want to restrict it to a Curse purchase, you can also make Defiled Shrine an Event.

That being said, the changes of all landmarks in the paragraph are kinda sloppy (though I guess they were sloppy in the first place). The Basilica one especially is just weird. I mean, you can now gain 4VP from a Paddock play. Or if you have played two Peddlers, any workshop variant will net you 2VP per play. That one IMO should be restricted to the Buy phase and ideally be "directly after spending a Buy, if you have $2 or more left, +2 VP".

Most changes are cool though. I'm especially happy with how they handled the Overpay mechanic.
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Donald X.

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2022, 12:52:51 pm »
+4

With Prince I'm just being extra safe, in this scenario where I've been burned before.

The Basilica change gives us the simpler card it could have always been. Most of the time you do not have Paddock with it; when you do, those games are different, which is fine by me, and I mean there are only 6 VP per player on Basilica. I understand "change is bad," but this change to Basilica is adding the kind of thing people are bemoaning losing elsewhere. And I mean it's in the name of simplicity.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2022, 01:46:37 pm »
+2

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.

And with Cursed Gold, Ruins, trashers you no longer need. Very disappointing to lose all these interesting uses, when the confusing rules cases could have been handled so easily with lesser errata.

100% agree.  The bonfire change is really disappointing.  is there a benefit I am not seeing?  Because this just seems to be unfun and eliminate a neat interaction that has the potential of trashing curses which often may be the only trashing in a kingdom. I for one lover junking attacks, but kind of hate them when there is no trashing available as they just make for meh hand slog games if there isn't a great source of draw available.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 01:50:35 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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silverspawn

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2022, 02:08:18 pm »
+2

I think the preferences of strong online players just aren't the main consideration

mxdata

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2022, 07:22:29 pm »
0

So, with the new Basilica, if I play, say, two Markets and then a Workshop, I'll gain the VP, right?

I really don't get the point of these new weird wordings. "When they gain a card they bought" ... if anyone was confused about "when they buy a card", how would that be any clearer?

Innovation is going to be a lot stronger
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mxdata

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2022, 07:23:33 pm »
0

Bonfire is a bit disappointing. It's not going to matter 90-93% of the time, but it was fun with on-trash effects.

And with Cursed Gold, Ruins, trashers you no longer need. Very disappointing to lose all these interesting uses, when the confusing rules cases could have been handled so easily with lesser errata.

100% agree.  The bonfire change is really disappointing.  is there a benefit I am not seeing?  Because this just seems to be unfun and eliminate a neat interaction that has the potential of trashing curses which often may be the only trashing in a kingdom. I for one lover junking attacks, but kind of hate them when there is no trashing available as they just make for meh hand slog games if there isn't a great source of draw available.

It's especially disappointing coming right after Charlatan was introduced. Granted, the combo of Charlatan + Bonfire isn't one that would come up very often, but that specific combo let you trash Curses with Bonfire, and it's being taken away almost as soon as it became possible!
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mxdata

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2022, 07:25:09 pm »
+1

Feels like Defiled Shrine should have triggered on "when you gain a Curse you bought". The way it is now, you can get Defiled Shrine VP when being attacked by Black Cat, or from Cursed Gold, which is not ideal.

Or buying something with Swamp Hag in play or buying a Blockaded card
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 07:26:18 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2022, 07:31:56 pm »
+10

"At the end of your buy phase if you didn't gain any cards in it"

How on Earth is this preferable to "If you didn't buy any cards"?? The old phrasing is clear and immediately understandable, the new phrasing is unnecessarily convoluted. And I can't imagine *anyone* who would be confused by the old wording somehow being *less* confused at the new wording. Surely, if anything, they'd be even more confused by that wording
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mxdata

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Re: 2022 Additional Errata
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2022, 07:46:07 pm »
0

Feels like Defiled Shrine should have triggered on "when you gain a Curse you bought". The way it is now, you can get Defiled Shrine VP when being attacked by Black Cat, or from Cursed Gold, which is not ideal.

Or buying something with Swamp Hag in play or buying a Blockaded card

Opponent's Swamp Hag in play + Defiled Shrine + Watchtower in hand = "Thank you for the VP!"
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