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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits  (Read 6659 times)

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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2022, 01:37:54 pm »
0




Here an event I worked on this week to give out some of the Spirits in a quest like way. I noticed that Imps encourage diversty so limited Poltergeist in a similiar way that idea going.
Also I made a nonPotion version as I have noticed most posters here hate potion cost, though my reasons for wanting to use it here are: it adds more diverseity of names on the board, delays the purhase of the event, it keeps the event cheap to buy which allows players to it after buying 1 or 2 real cards in the same turn while not making it free to buy.
The gain 2 horses is because I love the Horse card, Horses work very well with Imps, Ghosts, and Poltergeist, if the Ghost pile runs out the event still works at gaining something good on turns you gained 2+ cards.
Quote
All Hallows' Eve
^ or @5
Event
If the number of cards you've gained this turn is:
2+, gain a Ghost from its pile or gain 2 Horses;
1, gain an Imp from its pile;
0, gain a Poltergeist from its pile.
Quote
Poltergeist
$5*
Action - Spirit
Reveal your hand. Choose a different thing per differently named card in your hand: +2 Actions; +2 Buys; gain a Horse; cards cost $1 less this turn; gain a card costing up to $3.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quantity 12

Quote
These are not my entries. I thought others might enjoy tinkering with these ideas down the line and since it is late in the contest I am hopefully not be limit others' entries by posting similiar ideas.


Quote
Evil Eye
$5
Treasure
$2
-
While you have this in play, you may buy Spirits from their piles as though they were in the Supply.
Quote
Sixth Sense
$5
Project
During your turns, you may buy Spirits from their piles as though they were in the Supply.
Quote
Apparition
$3*
Action - Spirit
Choose four: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; or +$1. You may choose the same choice up to twice.
Return this to its pile.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Banshee
$3
Night - Attack - Spirit
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand puts cards from their hand onto their deck until they have 4 cards in hand.
You may play an Action card from your hand.
(This is not in the Supply.)
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2022, 04:46:23 pm »
+3



Edit: 12 Sprite Dragons in their pile.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 02:13:01 pm by silverspawn »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2022, 07:41:31 pm »
0

It's unclear whether the set-aside card is discarded. Right now, you would permenantly lose the set-aside card. You could add a "discarding it" clause at the end of the card.

Since it doesn't say "leaving it there", the set-aside card goes into play.

Right. Both Innovation and Summon play set-aside cards, which go into play.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2022, 01:29:31 am »
+3

Submissions Closed

I will judge the cards in the next couple of days.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2022, 12:26:55 pm »
+6

Results time.

I haven't playtested anything, so judgement is based on my opinion. Things I considered:
- How much I like the concept of the card.
- Are there any general problems I can see.
- When would/wouldn't I want to gain this.
- When would/wouldn't I want to play this.
- How it fits into common deck types, engine, money, etc.
- Can I think of any official cards it has interesting interactions with, this could be synergies or anti-synergies. Can I think of any official card the entry might have a problem with.
- How would the submitted Spirit play differently in Exorcist games.

Summoning + Elementals/Demons by Segura
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885353#msg885353
I like the idea for gaining the Spirits here where, you have a choice to gain them instead of another card. I also like the idea that a different selection will be in play each time with Summoning.
The big question I have is whether or not this would require a rule clarification. What happens in a game featuring both Summoning and Exorcist? Interpreting the current rules would suggest that the two selected Elementals/Demons can be gained by using either Summoning or Exorcist. The other three can still be gained by Exorcist but not Summoning. That would be correct from the Exorcist-Spirit perspective, but I am not sure if is what is best for these cards and this mechanism.
This is a great concept but I am not sure that shoehorning the Elementals/Demons in as Spirits is quite right. I think they may better as their own new type of non-supply card.

Reaper + Soul by Augie279
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885354#msg885354
Interesting idea to split engine components across the Spirit and the card that gains it. The timings of building this is interesting as you will be getting your draw cards later than you would normally buy them. In most cases your first play of the draw card (Soul) will be two shuffles after you gained your first village (Reaper).
I like it that Soul discards first before drawing to 6 to avoid the later Souls being redundant on the next turn if more than one has been played.
I do have a worry about how often Soul will be gained in games with Exorcist but not Reaper. If you are able to gain the targets to trash (for gaining Soul) quickly enough and align them with Exorcist reliably enough you have probably already built an engine and therefore don't need Soul. There might be some exceptions where you are able to get very thin very quickly, or have some powerful sifting and there is a lack of other draw options.
Where these cards might really shine is in games with Ruins. If you are attacked with a Looter it is a great counter to build up your engine. I do wonder if you would actually want to buy Ruins yourself.

Shaman + Bear by 4est
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885411#msg885411
Two variants on existing cards but both bring something new to the game. I like some of the options Bear offers. If you want to turn cards into Victory cards at the end of the game, 6 cost cards can become Duchies and 3s can be turned into Estates. It could be interesting if there are key 4 cost cards you want a lot of. Bears can turn themselves into those cards. This will be slower to set up initially, but can it help catch up later on in the race for those cards.

Distillery + Whisky by Spineflu
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885412#msg885412
Not having to go out of your way to gain Whiskys is a nice touch. If you are playing Distillery for draw the opportunity to gain them comes along anyway. The obvious use here is removing Victory cards as you go to stop them clogging up your deck, hence, I presume the reason for getting you action back if you use it on a non-victory card. Using Distillery for draw is going to strategically impact the endgame as it will allow you to start buying Victory cards earlier.
When not using Distillery on Victory cards the next use is as a way of cleaning up your deck when there are junking attacks, but I am also wondering about the viability of using extra buys or gains on Whiskey fodder to effectively make the Distillery/Whisky interaction non-terminal. Think of it as whether or not you would give up a gain or buy in return for getting another action. There are going to be kingdoms where you would make that swap.
Lastly, I presume the reason for setting cards aside as a pseudo exile is so that you do not have a way of getting potentially useful cards back.
*Note, when judging this card I assumed the cards have been set aside permanently. This isn't clear though and could be open to different interpretations. I did check the wiki for a list of cards that set others aside and each does explicitly tell the player what to do with it.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Set_aside#:~:text=To%20set%20aside%20a%20card,in%20play%22%20for%20any%20purpose.

Shrine Pool + Lady Luck by NoMoreFun
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885413#msg885413
Lady Luck does have a lot of potential as a Spirit. It does cost 7, which in most games with Exorcist means you will need to trash a Province to gain it. As long as you are not reliably drawing your deck and your deck is capable of gaining more than a Province per turn I can see this being worthwhile.
My worry is whether or not Shrine Pool is too good to cost 3. If it aligns with one Silver it is a Lab. When it aligns with 2 or 3 it is even better.

Haunted Mansion + Brownie by Gubump
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885416#msg885416
Agree with the comments regarding Haunted Mansion and Will-o-Wisp making an engine. I am not a fan of monolithic strategies and I consider one supply card combined with a non-supply card that it can gain monolithic.
I don't think it is difficult to fix the card. Either making it non-terminal or removing the +buy would stop it being a complete engine. There are some nice ideas here. My favourite is encouraging a player to gain multiple spirits and rewarding them for doing so. I also like the idea of making the Spirit card's cost more meaningful and it has done it in an original and interesting way.

Runestone + Essence by Faust
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885429#msg885429
Mining Village has already proven the concept that there are times you want to trash a card worth more than $2 for $2 after playing it and this applies that idea to Spirits. The question is when is it worthwhile doing so. The obvious one is your last shuffle. You won't play them again so you may as well cash them in for some Victory cards. The more interesting question is what are the other scenarios? A potential one that springs to mind is gaining Imps with Devil's Workshop. Imps are great providing you have enough different actions to support them being non-terminal. Once you reach the number of Imps your engine can support, should you trash one (or potentially more) with Essence for $2 each and gain replacements with Devil's Workshop? There are going to be other situations where it will be worth trashing your Spirits. Identifying them will make this a card that rewards skill.
I am assuming Runestone does not prohibit a $0 overpay so you can gain Will-O-Wisps. If so, this could be very strong with cost reduction where you can make Runestones free.

Transfigure + Sprite by anordinaryman
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885445#msg885445
The comments about the trash gain being a problem are correct. Gains from the trash, like from the supply do need to be bounded in some way.
I do like the trashing clauses on Sprite as this stops you running out of Boons (although still possible in a 4 player game with this and Druid), which is a potential problem with this design.
Transfigure is a lot more powerful when the kingdom enables a player to know, or even better, choose what card is on top of their deck before they play it. Otherwise it has the potential to be swingy. If you hit something you really didn't want to you can gain it back but it has still cost you an action.
With the Boons Sprite is an excellent trash for benefit target. Where gaining them can be reliable, either because Transfigure has the right support, or Exorcist is in the kingdom, it will enable trash for benefit strategies and the Boons will give it a nice boost.

Fairy Ring + Mischievous Fairies by emtzalex
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885446#msg885446
Nice complimentary theme between the two cards and yet the differences mean there will be a place for Mischievous Fairies and a place for using Fairy Ring as an action gainer.
On boards that offer a strong reliable engine, it is going to be easier to power Fairy Ring up to the point where it can gain more actions that your engine wants and this will likely be the correct use of the card.
If an engine is less reliable it will be harder to use Fairy Ring to gain the actions you want, but these will also be the types of boards where Mischievous Fairies will likely make a bigger difference. They can be used to help bootstrap your turns.
As a said before, a nice complimentary synergy, both thematically and how I think the cards will play.

Wisperer + Walking Stick + Whispering Woods + Wisps by nyxfulloftricks
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885526#msg885526
It was commented that the synergies here are very strong but I think in most cases that will be kept in check by Walking Stick being an heirloom, which (barring a few edge cases) limits Spirit gaining to one per shuffle. The flipside of it being an heirloom though is that if you were to lose it, due to a trashing attack for example, your means of gaining Spirits will be gone. Could that be too swingy?
Where you have the possibility of regularly gaining more Wisps, such as Exorcist being in the kingdom or Druid with the Swamp's Gift as one of the set aside Boons (a scenario mentioned elsewhere in the thread) then I think the power level of the synergies could become a problem.

Devoted Thrall + Lost Soul by Xen3k
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885570#msg885570
A Spirit that allows you to buy other Spirits. It does make gaining one of the official Spirits this way slow but that is fine. The nominal cost of the Spirit cards is less than what they should be if they were actions. Something that allows a player to buy Spirits has to have some sort of built in constraint or limitation to compensate. I think this is a good way of allowing Spirits to be bought.
Devoted Thrall is the card here that grabs my attention. The mechanics of an engine built using this, particularly where this the only Village are interesting. I think you would want to avoid playing anything bar villages or draw until you have maxxed out your capacity for playing Devoted Thralls, especially if your draw is terminal. Other non-terminals is something you would want to avoid playing until after this if at all possible.
There are some potentially interesting interactions if this were to be the only Village. Would it effectively turn Necromancer into one if Devoted Thralls are being trashed. Cavalry could allow you to buy it back from the trash and then play it again. With the right non-terminal support that could increase your terminal space.

Retired Dead Pirate + Ghost Pirate by LibraryAdventurer
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885571#msg885571
What should happen if the top card of your deck when you play Retired Dead Pirate is a Night Duration? Do they then end up being played in your action phase? This potentially causes a problem with Crypt as you would not normally have Treasures in play during your action phase. It also has an impact on how Ghost plays.
There are some nice ideas here. I like the Gold gaining is optional. Ghost Pirate offers a nice way of smoothing out an engine if you are unable to get rid of your starting Coppers.
I think some of the conditions on the cards would be better if they found a way not to be limited to Durations. Ghost Pirate couldn't work on all Action cards as that would be overpowered. The problem though is if you have no other Durations in the kingdom as then Ghost Pirate would only work on itself and Treasures.

Dryad + Forest Spirit by AJL828
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885572#msg885572
Simple support cards have a place in Dominion and it is only right they should also have a place in the card design contests. I like these cards.
Forest Spirit could help both engine and money decks. If there are Gainers, Remodelers, etc, in the kingdom than this could be an additional source of draw. I like that the Silver gaining is optional. It widens the scope of when the card can be used. You might want it early on to boost your economy whilst your engine comes together, but there will usually be a point where you would want to stop gaining Silver. The Silver gained could also be used as trash fodder so there is synergy with trash for benefit cards.
I can also see it being useful in money games. Dryad would be converting your starting Estates into Silver gainers.
There will be times this will be ignorable. If you cannot make Forest Spirit draw you are rarely going to want it for an engine.

Invoke by ahyangyi
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885590#msg885590
An event that adds an additional kingdom pile as an additional non-supply Spirit pile. Interesting idea. Top decking a card from your hand per Invoked card in play is an intriguing concept. There are many reasons why top decking cards can help, for example, getting a poor card out of your hand so something like Sage or Farming Village can skip past it, removing duplicates to activate Menagerie, avoiding terminal collision, etc. Also if running a draw to X engine, top decking a card might not make that much difference.
Having to top desk multiple cards when playing multiple Invoked cards is more of a liability. What if the Invoke pile happens to be the only village in the kingdom. It isn't clear what the right thing to do will be.
Another scenario that needs thinking about is when the Invoked card is a Victory card. You don't play these so the topdecking constraint is not relevant. They end up costing two less but with the limitation that the only way to gain them is to buy them (or gain them with Exorcist if that happens to be in the kingdom).
This has the potential to change the way some kingdoms are played, or at least think about them differently. I can't think of any situations where this would break the game, but there could be edge cases I haven't thought of.

Departure + Apparition by pubby
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885628#msg885628
Not all Action cards are meaningful when played in your Night phase, but enough are so, a card that allows you to play them in your Night phase is a simple but worthwhile idea. Apparition could change how you build your deck as you could potentially play more terminals than you have actions for, if some can be played in your Night phase.
Should Departure be a Night-Action, or does the Night phase clause only apply due to being played then because of Apparition? If it is the latter I like that it makes a more difficult to do, particularly as Departure does have the potential to gain anything (as long as you haven't already gained it yet).
Being able to only gain cards you haven't gained yet does help to keep the power level in check, with regard to running the Province (or Colony) pile, but I think there are some edge case issues. For example, this could potentially run the Castles pile. I would also question whether or not it would be too easy to gain Fortune with Departure. Maybe some upper cost limit is required in terms of what it can gain.

Gnome + Fairy by jakav
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885655#msg885655
Fairy is a nice idea. It is basically Barracks in card form. I like the reaction that means it doesn't take up space in your hand.
There is a thematic similarity in that both cards help to set up your next turn. There is a difference though. Fairy will be at its best when you are drawing your deck as then the additional +action will be consistent and predictable. Gnome will be most useful when not drawing your deck. It wants to have undrawn cards once you are playing your Treasures. If you have drawn your deck it is just a Silver.
That doesn't necessarily mean there is an anti-synergy though. Every reliable engine would have been at some point an unreliable engine whilst they are being built. Gnome could help it get through this stage quicker. Gnome could also potentially help if the engine is starting to stall when adding Victory cards.
Gnome also has interesting synergies with Black Market and Storyteller that allow you to play Treasures in your Action Phase. The Storyteller interaction is particularly interesting you can sift the top of your deck before drawing.

All Hallows Eve + Poltergeist by arowdok
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885704#msg885704
The potion or debt cost debate is interesting. I don't have an issue with potions myself. In some ways I quite like the potion option because I think you should be made to work to gain a card like Poltergeist. On the other hand though the Potion could be another card to help power up Poltergeist once you have gained it.
I like the way that All Hallows Eve does gives different Spirits in different situations. Not keen on the Horse gaining option as it breaks a very strong thematic link.
Poltergeist's strength is going to be very kingdom dependent, but I do have concerns about how powerful it potentially can be. When you are able to draw your deck, how many different cards do you typically have in your hand? Probably close to the point where a couple of these can drive a megaturn. If you can KC this or Black Market is in the Kingdom, a single Poltergeist might be enough to set up a megaturn. Maybe the number of things you can do needs to be capped.

Gemstone Mine + Sprite Dragon by silverspawn
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885706#msg885706
Sprite Dragon is a twist on Stables. You need to discard a Silver to get the +3 Cards +1 Action, but if you don't discard it is still a cantrip as opposed to doing nothing.
Gemstone Mine has synergies in that it can gain Silvers but needs to trash one in order to gain a Sprite Dragon.
I like the paradox of Sprite Dragon. It is a very good card for engines but needs aligning with a Silver to be so. I think it is definitely worth getting where there is sifting or other strong deck manipulation cards available. I am wondering if Sprite Dragon money strategies could be something. It would be like Smithy Big Money but you could get more Sprite Dragons because it wouldn't matter so much if they collide. The trick will be ensuring they align with Silvers, but Gemstone Mine can help with that by turning your starting Coppers into Silvers. With cards that allow Silver flooding this strategy could be very strong.


Honourable Mentions
Invoke by  ahyangyi
Gnome + Fairy by jakav
Fairy Ring + Mischievious Fairies by emtzalex
Dryad + Forest Spirit by AJL828

Runners Ups
Devoted Thrall + Lost Soul by Xen3k
Gemstone Mine + Sprite Dragon by silverspawn

Winner
Runestone + Essence by faust


Congratulations Faust!!!!






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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2022, 02:35:54 pm »
+2

Runestone + Essence by Faust
I am assuming Runestone does not prohibit a $0 overpay so you can gain Will-O-Wisps. If so, this could be very strong with cost reduction where you can make Runestones free.

You can't overpay to get two -cost Actions with Stonemason, so I think you'd have to overpay to get a Will-o-wisp.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2022, 06:52:41 pm »
0

Results time.
Retired Dead Pirate + Ghost Pirate by LibraryAdventurer
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21062.msg885571#msg885571
What should happen if the top card of your deck when you play Retired Dead Pirate is a Night Duration? Do they then end up being played in your action phase? This potentially causes a problem with Crypt as you would not normally have Treasures in play during your action phase. It also has an impact on how Ghost plays.
Yes, this allows you to play a Night card in the Action phase, and it's optional to play it for when you reveal a Crypt (or anything else you didn't want to play at the moment), so there wouldn't be any problem.

There are some nice ideas here. I like the Gold gaining is optional. Ghost Pirate offers a nice way of smoothing out an engine if you are unable to get rid of your starting Coppers.
I think some of the conditions on the cards would be better if they found a way not to be limited to Durations. Ghost Pirate couldn't work on all Action cards as that would be overpowered. The problem though is if you have no other Durations in the kingdom as then Ghost Pirate would only work on itself and Treasures.
I planned for the possibility, and I think it would still be decent (worthwhile sometimes at least) in kingdoms without other durations.
Did I at least get points for the Princess Bride reference?

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2022, 02:44:07 am »
+3

Thank you for the judging, and the win! New contest will appear shortly.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #142: High Spirits
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2022, 03:06:56 am »
0

Runestone + Essence by Faust
I am assuming Runestone does not prohibit a $0 overpay so you can gain Will-O-Wisps. If so, this could be very strong with cost reduction where you can make Runestones free.

You can't overpay to get two -cost Actions with Stonemason, so I think you'd have to overpay to get a Will-o-wisp.
Just to clarify, this was the intended way to play.
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