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Author Topic: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Game Over - Skum Wins!  (Read 116971 times)

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ashersky

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #325 on: February 24, 2021, 10:58:16 pm »

Another random thing that supports the Robz/MiX team plan -- MiX's vote on Robz is the safest bus ever, as Robz wasn't getting (and probably still isn't getting) exiled on D1.
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ashersky

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #326 on: February 24, 2021, 10:58:55 pm »

Also, obligatory reminder than an E-1 vote is the same as a hammer.
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #327 on: February 24, 2021, 11:01:48 pm »

Also, 48 hours to deadline?  Is that right?  I'm way ahead of you all time zone-wise.

Yeah, give or take 10 minutes.

I voted MiX purely as an experiment to see if he would vote for me in retaliation, and he didn't disappoint.

But I actually think if he was scum, his buddies might have explained to him that he has to stop doing this pure retribution stay-alive-at-all-costs sort of thing.

Unvote

You mean in their daychat that you somehow know they chose?

vote: Robz

I think he meant in the nightchat, you know, the N0 thing.

I had written up an updated VC and stuff, but then it appeared!

Cool, I also wanted to know the VC!

I kinda really hate how there's barely any alternatives to math...oh and that I'm one of them.

Another random thing that supports the Robz/MiX team plan -- MiX's vote on Robz is the safest bus ever, as Robz wasn't getting (and probably still isn't getting) exiled on D1.

Well he should cause he's scum. Or at least he can be.
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ashersky

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #328 on: February 25, 2021, 01:05:13 am »

I think he meant in the nightchat, you know, the N0 thing.

Could you confirm by checking the QT if he told you during N0 or after the day started?
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mathdude

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #329 on: February 25, 2021, 01:11:13 am »

I'm not sure how much my opinion matters at this point, as to who we should vote for - it looks (and partly is) going to be self-preservation and defensive, and I'm the new guy who has no idea how to read any of you.  But here's my thoughts anyway - people I think have reasonable suspicion today and should be considered:

MiX - even if this is "normal", it still comes across as scummy (and could be a good wall to hide behind)
gkrieg - for the first 3-4 days, was basically non-existent (though recent posts a few hours ago are starting to contribute)
Dylan - my first impression right near the beginning was a scum-read here, and nothing has changed my mind (in fact, some of the defending of me has given me more of a scum-read)

To put my vote out there, I'll
vote: MiX
for now... but I'd comfortably switch to any of the other two if others feel one of them is a better choice.

It may be just my personal opinion, but I'd feel like mafia have to be super careful with what they type, especially on a very active day-1 like this.  Town on the other hand want to help read as much as possible and scum hunt.  So if a "slip" looks like it's been made (whether jumping on a wagon at the "wrong" time, or saying something that gives a scum-read), especially day-1, I'd be at least as inclined to suspect the person is Town, not Mafia - at least based on my experience playing Mafia in the past.  Again, this probably sounds self-defensive, but this has also been evident in my scum-reads (as weak and few as there have been) since the beginning - it's been more about responses and who references which other players (and how and when they do).
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #330 on: February 25, 2021, 02:00:33 am »

mathdude seems townie so far.
[...]

Mathdude had the obvious scummy post
I'm confused about how these two go together.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #331 on: February 25, 2021, 02:02:14 am »

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.
I mean... you jumping off the mathdude wagon for this is just exquisitely ironic.
Only if I jumped on the mathdude wagon as opportunistic scum. Since I actually jumped on as using-my-vote town, there is no particular irony here.

Okay, then it's ironic if joth's also town.

And scum!faust would know if we were both town...
No he wouldn'tr.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #332 on: February 25, 2021, 02:04:37 am »

MiX - even if this is "normal", it still comes across as scummy (and could be a good wall to hide behind)
What is "this"? Can you expand on your read here?
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ashersky

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #333 on: February 25, 2021, 02:05:05 am »

@mathdude

There are no issues with your posts and cases sounding and being at least someone self-preservational at this point; it's to be expected.

Your point on MiX is fair and sensible.  The honest truth is MiX is always like this, which helps him tons when he's mafia and hurts town more when he's town.  That's just who he is.

gkrieg's absence is unfortunate, but I do think that makes him more likely to be town.  Does mafia!gkrieg know that he can skate by with a no-show Day 1?  Yeah, he does.  Does he actually do that?  I highly doubt it.  That's just from my experience though.

Your Dylan read is one with which I just have to disagree.  Dude is super-towny.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #334 on: February 25, 2021, 02:05:59 am »

One-liner-mostly-questions-no-content-D1-faust is like a fresh spring breeze in April.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #335 on: February 25, 2021, 02:23:20 am »

gkrieg's absence is unfortunate, but I do think that makes him more likely to be town.  Does mafia!gkrieg know that he can skate by with a no-show Day 1?  Yeah, he does.  Does he actually do that?  I highly doubt it.  That's just from my experience though.
I went and checked gkrieg's last scum game (coincidentally, M123, with you!). He had like 35 D1 posts there, not quite a no-show, but not very active either. I find it weird to turn this into an alignment tell one way or the other.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #336 on: February 25, 2021, 06:29:10 am »

I am finding myself disagreeing with Space more than usual. @Space, can you say why you had trouble reading mcmc's posts with a town narrative?

Sorry if this gets long, but I want to put the focus on those posts into some kind of context :-)

Rough structure of what went on, from an exceptionally Space-centric perspective:

1. On an early re-read, I thought mcmc was generally too confident in the case he was making. I was actually making that post (#210) in search of a better place to put my vote than my RVS mcmc vote, but honestly couldn't find anything much I scum-read at that point in the game. So for mcmc to be confident enough to argue against the counters on his own scum-read felt iffy to me. (That's all there is to it in terms of a simple answer to your question, EFHW, but why I brought the posts up again later in the game is where the more complicated bit comes in).

2. MiX actively disagreed with me on that, as is summarised in the upper part of his post at #233. So we can deduce from that that MiX thought mcmc was being townie in the posts he'd made before #210.

3. On a later re-read, I noticed that Robz had gone from expressing suspicion on mcmc at #191 and #193, to voting for me at #204, to totally unvoting at #220, without any comment on how his mcmc read had evolved in the meantime. One assumes that mcmc's intervening posts at #197, #199, and #201 may have some bearing on the evolving read, and those are a part of the content MiX and I had discussed.

4. Roughly at the same time as I notice that possible inconsistency, faust makes a sort of wagon-fishing attempt on MiX at #253. I'm always a bit wary of people asking for wagons without joining them, so I wanted to probe faust a bit at that point. Therefore, I asked faust at #259 whether Robz would be a better target for the alternative to the mathdude wagon that he claimed he wanted. I was deliberate in not elaborating my Robz thoughts at that point because I wanted faust's take, but annoyingly MiX also then butted into that part of the conversation.

5. I got a super-short and unengaged answer from faust, of course, and eventually posted my Robz-observation at #277.

6. Immediately at #288, MiX claims I have a good case on Robz. Which is ironic because a) he shouldn't have thought that, given that he was insistent on mcmc's towniness, b) he's totally oblivious to the fact I'm actually trying to engage with faust here, and just keeps reacting to everything without any apparent effort at processing.

7. I let my frustration with MiX come out at #280 where I pointed out that he shouldn't believe my case because he specifically already said those posts were townie.

8. MiX responds to me at #281 to ask if the content of the posts even matters. That would be the three posts that were made by mcmc, during the time in which Robz apparently loses a scumread on mcmc. In what imaginary MiX-universe don't the contents of those posts matter? At that point I lost the will to keep engaging with MiX and just left it hanging, because my intended replies were a little too much on the snarky side.

tl;dr I was trying to probe faust because I didn't like his wagon-hunting on MiX, and bringing up mcmc's posts again was mostly due to MiX getting in the way of that, and not actually to do with me being obsessed with three things mcmc said earlier in the game. I realise that for people not inside my own head, that may not have been quite so evident, though :-P
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mathdude

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #337 on: February 25, 2021, 07:12:15 am »

MiX - even if this is "normal", it still comes across as scummy (and could be a good wall to hide behind)
What is "this"? Can you expand on your read here?

I meant exactly what ash said in the post after yours... MiX always seeming slightly scummy. And the fact that it helps him when he is scum, and slightly hurts town when he's town.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #338 on: February 25, 2021, 08:11:26 am »

MiX - even if this is "normal", it still comes across as scummy (and could be a good wall to hide behind)
What is "this"? Can you expand on your read here?

I meant exactly what ash said in the post after yours... MiX always seeming slightly scummy. And the fact that it helps him when he is scum, and slightly hurts town when he's town.
How do you think he is slightly scummy? Please use your own words rather than someone else's.
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jotheonah

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #339 on: February 25, 2021, 08:14:00 am »

Are we... actually going to exile mathdude instead of running him up to E-1, forcing a claim, and then panic exiling someone else?

If so, great, let’s put it to bed.

If not, let’s get on with it so we have slightly more time for the bad panic exile (I nominate Robz).
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #340 on: February 25, 2021, 08:27:12 am »

6. Immediately at #288, MiX claims I have a good case on Robz. Which is ironic because a) he shouldn't have thought that, given that he was insistent on mcmc's towniness, b) he's totally oblivious to the fact I'm actually trying to engage with faust here, and just keeps reacting to everything without any apparent effort at processing.

7. I let my frustration with MiX come out at #280 where I pointed out that he shouldn't believe my case because he specifically already said those posts were townie.

8. MiX responds to me at #281 to ask if the content of the posts even matters. That would be the three posts that were made by mcmc, during the time in which Robz apparently loses a scumread on mcmc. In what imaginary MiX-universe don't the contents of those posts matter? At that point I lost the will to keep engaging with MiX and just left it hanging, because my intended replies were a little too much on the snarky side.

tl;dr I was trying to probe faust because I didn't like his wagon-hunting on MiX, and bringing up mcmc's posts again was mostly due to MiX getting in the way of that, and not actually to do with me being obsessed with three things mcmc said earlier in the game. I realise that for people not inside my own head, that may not have been quite so evident, though :-P

The mcmc posts don't matter in the Robz case: the fact that Robz did not say anything about them does. Regardless of how it changed Robz's read, since he said he had a scumread on mcmc, he should've said something, anything, about them. We now know that he found them townie and is not scumreading mcmc anymore, but that was after I said all that, and he still hasn't said how those posts affected his read. The mcmc posts looking townie, scummy, nully, whatever, to me doesn't change a single thing in how Robz reacted to them.

I butted in because I was looking for a new wagon, and I really liked what you had said, I thought, and still think, that it's a great case for scum!Robz.

MiX - even if this is "normal", it still comes across as scummy (and could be a good wall to hide behind)
What is "this"? Can you expand on your read here?

I meant exactly what ash said in the post after yours... MiX always seeming slightly scummy. And the fact that it helps him when he is scum, and slightly hurts town when he's town.

Ha! How would you know it hurts me when I'm town, and helps me when I'm scum? For all you know it's the other way around! And yes, it is the other way around, regardless of what anyone else says.

Are we... actually going to exile mathdude instead of running him up to E-1, forcing a claim, and then panic exiling someone else?

If so, great, let’s put it to bed.

If not, let’s get on with it so we have slightly more time for the bad panic exile (I nominate Robz).

I don't know man, your call. If you want to stick your vote on math to get a claim, so be it. You can just vote Robz now if you want to exile scum.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #341 on: February 25, 2021, 08:40:34 am »

Unfortunately my vote is already on math.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #342 on: February 25, 2021, 08:46:42 am »

Unfortunately my vote is already on math.

Fine, okay, let's do it.

Intent to vote math and put him at E-1
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #343 on: February 25, 2021, 09:23:56 am »

Well, ash is already on Math so the e-1 so that vote isn’t quite as dire as it would be if he wasn’t.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #344 on: February 25, 2021, 09:28:27 am »

Another random thing that supports the Robz/MiX team plan -- MiX's vote on Robz is the safest bus ever, as Robz wasn't getting (and probably still isn't getting) exiled on D1.

I agree with this. But in subsequent posts he seems to be leaning way more into Robz. Maybe MiX distancing genius? Or authentic scum!robz vibes? Hard to know...
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #345 on: February 25, 2021, 09:54:47 am »

mathdude seems townie so far.
[...]

Mathdude had the obvious scummy post
I'm confused about how these two go together.

It’s the Result of writing a single post while rereading the whole day. I think he is slightly townier than scummier.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #346 on: February 25, 2021, 10:15:21 am »

Vote: MiX

I'm one of the people who thinks that even town!MiX is kind of a gift to scum sometimes, and I'm not sure this is town!MiX. There's just too much flaily posting.

Still not sold on mathdude's scumminess being so much alignment-indicative than newbie-indicative that I want to jump on there, but I'm not so averse to it that I wouldn't move my vote to get an exile through. I remember that it took time to adapt to this version of mafia over the flipless werewolf I used to play, and in particular I felt pressured to be very defensive, and took it really seriously if I was under pressure, which I think probably made my play read even worse to a lot of people (hi gkrieg!), so I have sympathy with that.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #347 on: February 25, 2021, 10:16:51 am »

Space Count:

mathdude (5): Dylan32, faust, jotheonah, EFHW, ashersky
jotheonah (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
MiX (4): gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds, mathdude, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (1): Robz888
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #348 on: February 25, 2021, 10:22:20 am »

Vote: MiX

I'm one of the people who thinks that even town!MiX is kind of a gift to scum sometimes, and I'm not sure this is town!MiX. There's just too much flaily posting.

Still not sold on mathdude's scumminess being so much alignment-indicative than newbie-indicative that I want to jump on there, but I'm not so averse to it that I wouldn't move my vote to get an exile through. I remember that it took time to adapt to this version of mafia over the flipless werewolf I used to play, and in particular I felt pressured to be very defensive, and took it really seriously if I was under pressure, which I think probably made my play read even worse to a lot of people (hi gkrieg!), so I have sympathy with that.

if Math flips scum this post is massive.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #349 on: February 25, 2021, 10:24:02 am »

Vote: MiX

I'm one of the people who thinks that even town!MiX is kind of a gift to scum sometimes, and I'm not sure this is town!MiX. There's just too much flaily posting.

Yeah you be in my position, everyone disagreeing with all of my reads, pushing the new guy instead of my scumreads, can't even talk about starting a wagon without getting scumread and now I'm the counterwagon to math. You'd be flailing too.

Look at the VC: what is that. Every single wagon is an easy D1 exile. Why do we even talk D1 if we already know the result?
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