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Author Topic: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Game Over - Skum Wins!  (Read 115161 times)

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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #250 on: February 24, 2021, 02:11:54 am »

The TLDR version:

I think mathdude slipped that they are either mafia or a PR.  My bet is most likely mafia, possibly role cop given the "gather information" focus.

(An aside: If I am right about role cop, mafia selected as least one power, and if they took role cop, I'd say they took at least two more.  That's all conjecture though, with no evidence.)

If they're town, they have a PR that gets a result, like Goon Cop or maybe Tracker.
Wait, wasn't the argument before that mathdude assumed he would live to play D2? And now it's that he supposedly slipped non-VT? Did you just swap out a decent argument for a worse one?
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #251 on: February 24, 2021, 02:16:58 am »

It's been a while since we had a vote count, let's see where things stand (there seems to have been some confusing about the size of the EFHW wagon).

Quote from: updated vote count
mathdude (4): Dylan32, faust, Ashersky, jotheonah
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
MCMC (1): SpaceAnenome
Joth (2): MCMC, EFHW
Ashersky (1): gkrieg
Not Voting (2): [/color] Robz888, mathdude

The main thing is that Robz and mathdude have switched from voting Space to not voting, which is distinctly unhelpful.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #252 on: February 24, 2021, 02:17:52 am »

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.
I mean... you jumping off the mathdude wagon for this is just exquisitely ironic.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #253 on: February 24, 2021, 02:23:35 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0
« Reply #254 on: February 24, 2021, 06:22:48 am »

The town has two roles to start, resulting in a maximum of five town roles randomly selected from the following

Just in case anyone else's reasoning is predicated on town not getting any PRs unless scum takes some, here's the bit in the rules post where it says we get two random roles as a freebie.

Actually, re-reading Ash, he isn't actually saying that he thinks Mafia must have picked powers because of what mathdude is saying, I just mis-parsed Ash's argument on my first read through. Still, I think it's worth realising that we definitely have at least two from the list of Goon Cop, RB, Tracker, Bodyguard and Vig. (Since we must have 2-5 from the original list of 6, and clearly we have no IC this time round).

I do agree that without specific incriminating evidence, the time to start talking about PRs is usually around D3 or D4 of a game. The desire to do stats-based analysis of what game config we're in before that typically gets scumread, as I've learned from long, bitter experience :-P
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #255 on: February 24, 2021, 06:24:54 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #256 on: February 24, 2021, 06:29:04 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?
I don't want to dismantle the mathdude wagon.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #257 on: February 24, 2021, 06:37:13 am »

These facts that Space worked out are constantly being considered in my head (hence "mathdude"), though I didn't have the time or desire to go back through 7+ pages of posts to figure it out on my phone in bed last night.  I really appreciate the numbers though, Space!  It pretty much lines up with what I was noticing.  And not knowing your whole group or individual metas, these numbers are about all I have to work with at the moment.

Oh, also, obviously (now that you are contributing meaningful posts)...
unvote

Hehe.. Posting stats is something I'll do as scum too, so I deserve exceedingly little town-cred for sharing them overall. I'll take some towncred for putting effort into the game around it, though, assuming that's what you're offering!

What I have for the stats is a couple of scripts that parse the game html, produce a datastructure, and then spit out a pretty standard set of queries on it, plus an html page where I see every single wagon state in the game in sequence, which I find useful in the later game for "wagon-gazing". Assuming you're similarly statsy to me, then you'll probably agree that that's super-useful, but honestly, it's only about half useful as you'd expect, because other people are still weird and illogical a lot of the time...
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #258 on: February 24, 2021, 06:44:40 am »

Lots of generic defending here. Let's go through the alignment indicative ones.

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

I think I've addressed most of this in response to Dylan's posts above.  But this is definitely very opportunistic.  I mean, it is vote 4 of 7 required.  But it's also the highest vote count we've gotten yet.  I post honestly.  I post my thoughts.  I'm not worried, in general, about whether a post of mine "would out scum!him" (scum!me).  My thoughts are real, regardless of whether town or mafia.  I am town here, but I don't think my post would be much different even if I was mafia - again, as I've said, I've played this before.

Is it just me or is math parroting my defense of him?

If you think your posts can be done by town and mafia, maybe you should try to make posts only town makes? This probably sounds presumptuous, but still.

This post just strikes me as newbie trying to contribute meaningfully. I don't think it's a townie post particularly, and yes it's hedgy, but haven't we actually decided that hedginess is not actually a scum characteristic? Isn't it something I falsely claimed was hedgy 130 games ago?

Besides "should we just exile lurkers" is a point we end up debating every other game, and it turns out the pro-town answer is "basically, yes."

Thanks.  These are some things I'm trying to say in all these replies above (but you use much fewer words to say them!)

What things is Robz saying that you were trying to say?

Yeah, a whole lot of people have jumped in to defend mathdude before we even got a chance to see him respond to the wagon himself. I mean, I get that the one post isn't a sure thing like a true scumslip or anything and he could still be town, but it was a scummier post than a lot of other things that have garnered votes to this point, so I feel like town should have been a little slower to defend it this early in the wagon. It's middle of D1 and this was only the 2nd wagon to even hit 3 people (using the official VCs as reference; Joth's hit 3, MiX moved, then Ash joined to put it back on 3 before moving to mathdude).

I actually agree with you here.  I'm at least as leery of those strongly defending me as I am of those attacking me.  (Now, remember how I post here guys... this is not "I think you all are scum", as before.  This is just saying I'm not so sure about any of this... again/still).  And yes, here I am now, responding to the wagon myself finally.

Why "actually"? Is there anyone that is attacking or defending you that is pinging scummier than average?

Back to Space's post now...

---(MiX snip, post ranking)---

I like these ranked lists.  Total posts is one thing, but is mostly indicative of the person's play/post style in the game... sort of meta info, not necessarily useful for this game (unless someone usually posts a lot and are mostly lurking now).  Total word count is a combination of personal play/post style and engagement in this game.  But I'm actually looking more at the mean (average) words/post.  This helps me get to know you guys, in a nice, summarized way, rather than going back through 9+ pages of replies multiple times.

From one extreme to another, there is gkrieg at 12 words/post to Space over 100.   I knew before Space started the recent posts, both Space and gkrieg were low (on both posts and mean words/post, which also meant total words), but I didn't realize how low gkrieg was.  I could have poked either, really.  I poked Space.  It generated discussion.  I'm glad.  But what's up with gkrieg - is this typical?  Is it even remotely helpful?  Should I have poked gkrieg?  Should I now?

I like this question a lot, questioning gkrieg's existence seems to come from a town mindset, other than a scum one that can ignore him.

So how's that now?  Have I addressed the concerns some of you have?  Now let's drop the silly votes against me and move onto something actually helpful for day-1.  The things I posted last night I did intentionally.  I wrote what I did, and I wouldn't take them back.  Maybe I should have been a little more diplomatic in how I said them, and may have if I was not half asleep.  But I still stand by what I said, and hopefully now with this long post, some of it makes a little more sense.

Wait, weren't the votes helpful? This seems to contradict pretty much everything you've been saying.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #259 on: February 24, 2021, 06:49:16 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?
I don't want to dismantle the mathdude wagon.

Is MiX a better alterative than Robz, if you're looking to grow a second wagon to compete?

PPE: MiX posted another quote wall.. haven't read it yet, but already wondering whether it will change my query about Robz being a better competing wagon target :-P
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #260 on: February 24, 2021, 06:59:53 am »

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

Why do you not want to exile gkrieg?  Haven't posted anything scummy?  That's because has hardly posted anything at all.

Ash's talked about his read on gkrieg.

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.

mathdude's defense makes sense if you read the offending post as written by someone who is super tired. I'm going to suspend judgement on him for now.

I'm confused about how I am the largest wagon.

I like the argument, I don't like the wagon hopping, but I prefer this vote over one on math. If it weren't for confirmation bias, I'd say this is a townie EFHW thing.

Also, if that moves my mathdude vote, it throws off MiX's wagon placement arguments.

Haha. It also makes it anti-town! Not that I particularly care.

The TLDR version:

I think mathdude slipped that they are either mafia or a PR.  My bet is most likely mafia, possibly role cop given the "gather information" focus.

(An aside: If I am right about role cop, mafia selected as least one power, and if they took role cop, I'd say they took at least two more.  That's all conjecture though, with no evidence.)

If they're town, they have a PR that gets a result, like Goon Cop or maybe Tracker.

(Imagine that I'm quoting the post above that one) This is the kind of logic that I cannot follow through, but is a sign of town!ash.

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.
Joke's  on you; we know you're scum now!

Are you scumreading joth for this? It's not clear.

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

You think my scum partner's protecting me, that this reaction is unlike what town!MiX makes people say, or that you have the same first impression about me as everyone else and you find that irritating?

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?

Do you scumread me? Why would you run a wagon at me in particular?

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?
I don't want to dismantle the mathdude wagon.

Is MiX a better alterative than Robz, if you're looking to grow a second wagon to compete?

PPE: MiX posted another quote wall.. haven't read it yet, but already wondering whether it will change my query about Robz being a better competing wagon target :-P

Why did you mention Robz all of a sudden?


Hey, it's not my fault I'm playing catchup all day, I've been kinda busy lately.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #261 on: February 24, 2021, 07:58:30 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

But people feeling frustrated at MiX's behaviour is such a "just people doing people things" thing...

TBH, I don't hate the idea of running up a few votes on MiX and seeing who jumps. Why do you want to entice someone else to do the dirty work of starting the wagon, though, rather than just dropping your own vote there and then observing who follows?
I don't want to dismantle the mathdude wagon.

Is MiX a better alterative than Robz, if you're looking to grow a second wagon to compete?
I think so, yes.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #262 on: February 24, 2021, 08:03:07 am »

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.
Joke's  on you; we know you're scum now!

Are you scumreading joth for this? It's not clear.
It was a joke.

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

You think my scum partner's protecting me, that this reaction is unlike what town!MiX makes people say, or that you have the same first impression about me as everyone else and you find that irritating?
I just want to force people who avoid giving a read on you to pick a side.
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #263 on: February 24, 2021, 08:23:19 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

You think my scum partner's protecting me, that this reaction is unlike what town!MiX makes people say, or that you have the same first impression about me as everyone else and you find that irritating?
I just want to force people who avoid giving a read on you to pick a side.

Such as yourself?
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #264 on: February 24, 2021, 08:34:31 am »

Could I entice someone to start a wagon on MiX? Every other post I read about him is like "it's just MiX doing MiX things" and I find that very irritating.

You think my scum partner's protecting me, that this reaction is unlike what town!MiX makes people say, or that you have the same first impression about me as everyone else and you find that irritating?
I just want to force people who avoid giving a read on you to pick a side.

Such as yourself?
Indeed!
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #265 on: February 24, 2021, 08:54:20 am »

By the way, math's at L-2 and the biggest wagon is EFHW's. Just so you know.

So EFHW is E-1?

vote: EFHW

vote: mathdude

"biggest wagon is EFHW's" I think was referring to EFHW creating the most concerning part of the wagon... not that there was a large wagon on them.

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

That's a good question.  2 others have already responded, but I will too (respond to quoting one of their responses below).  But I am trying to figure out why you think that I think I will definitely not die at night.  The best guess I have is this:

However, there is definitely TONS of useful interactions that have been happening, so that bodes well for tomorrow.

Was that it?  This is a statement to all town in general.  Even if I'm not here, it still bodes well for us, especially now with how much people have jumped into these discussions.

It was partly that, if you want to choose specific words and combinations of words that convey why I had the impression that you thought you would not die at night.

It was more my impression from reading the post in its entirety, that you expected to be playing on Day 2 and available to do the things you said we'd be able to do (like get info from PRs).

When I've played in the past, even if "not much" happens or is revealed, there is still useful info that comes out for day-2.  Reading some more posts since this, it appears the "blind" nature here is saying that we will be probably getting less info than I'm used to... so now that makes some of my posts no longer helpful, so I'm sorry I started down that trail.

At least you have a reason for jumping on the train.  Now, just as I don't know all of you, you don't know me.  Keeping an option open to exile anyone day-1 just makes sense to me at this point in a game.   And being aware of PRs is also me.  Probably as I get to know you guys, I'll do a little more thinking in my head about PRs on day-1, and save the actual discussion for day 2 or 3, when we can actually gather information from them.  I just wanted to (as you point out) "subtly" let you guys know I was thinking about them.  I will have questions about them - possibly towards the end of day-1, or definitely on day-2 as info is revealed.  I know about power roles, but I want to make sure I understand how exactly they work and are treated here (as it may be slightly different than what I'm used to).

Also, I'm definitely a fan of kicking intentional lurkers.  If we see people lurking but not contributing, that's one thing.  If people are just busy IRL, that's another.  And I don't know which is which at this point, but the "Space Count" and Space's analysis definitely helped me a bit there.

Snipping what I read as the most useful part of your very long defense.

As a general rule, I would warn that there is no reason for you to assume that there will be any information to be had on subsequent days from power roles in any game.  People don't share, people miss, people die, etc.

In this game, I really feel like you are hurting yourself here.  This focus on PRs (which I didn't read as much of in the original post that got all this started but do see here a lot) and their possible information and role to be played in future days has basically put you in the mafia OR town PR category at this point.  That's bad for a multitude of reasons.  I'll try to lay it out as best I can:

--your previous post and this post both share a lot of assumptions regarding PR play, usage, and -- most importantly here -- existence.  As a semi-closed setup, part of a PR's protection is the hidden nature of that role.  The players here who are more likely to think PRs exist and will be contributing something are, you guessed it, the PRs themselves and the mafia who know how many PRs exist.
--while you can (and probably will) argue that your posts are about mafia games in general, it is difficult to believe that what you write in this game thread is not about this game.
--so, your confidence in the way we will "gather information" from the PRs will take part in this game in Day 2 and beyond makes me think you have more information that a VT would -- so either mafia or a PR.
--your mention of sharing information leans more toward specific roles: in this setup, the Role Cop, Goon Cop, and Tracker.  A no kill means the Roleblocker might have something to say, as well.  The Bodyguard, for example, would have no information to share.
--can you say that you just meant "gather information" from whatever we see (i.e., bodyguard death, no kill, two kills, etc.)?  Sure.  But that's not a surefire defense, nor will I be inclined to believe it.

So, I see two distinct possibilities:

#1: You are mafia, expect to live through the night because what are the chances a vig exists AND shoots the "newbie" and therefore slipped.
#2: You are a PR, probably one that gets results (Goon Cop or Tracker) and PR slipped (or breadcrumbed badly), which means you, or the possible bodyguard who protects you, dies.

Is #2 the worst?  Maybe not.  You get a result of some sort and survive IF there is a bodyguard.  Chances aren't my forte, so someone who does math can figure that out.  But #2 is still very bad.

There is a #3, which is an f.ds staple, where you are a VT purposefully angling for the NK to protect others.  In that case, you still end up getting the Bodyguard killed, if they exist.

So anyway, that's a deeper look into why I think exiling you makes sense, as I see #1 to be more likely than #2.  (I think PRs are more careful about not slipping information that would give themselves away on D1.)

And these are things that would have been helpful for me to learn, if I had the time to read through past games (to read the group meta, and to learn about this setup).  It seems obvious that I would claim either #2 or #3.  But as I think it's been clear that I've been saying... this is just me learning how things work here.

The TLDR version:

I think mathdude slipped that they are either mafia or a PR.  My bet is most likely mafia, possibly role cop given the "gather information" focus.

(An aside: If I am right about role cop, mafia selected as least one power, and if they took role cop, I'd say they took at least two more.  That's all conjecture though, with no evidence.)

If they're town, they have a PR that gets a result, like Goon Cop or maybe Tracker.
Wait, wasn't the argument before that mathdude assumed he would live to play D2? And now it's that he supposedly slipped non-VT? Did you just swap out a decent argument for a worse one?

The argument against me definitely did change.  I was trying to generate discussion, and now I'm being picked apart.

The town has two roles to start, resulting in a maximum of five town roles randomly selected from the following

Just in case anyone else's reasoning is predicated on town not getting any PRs unless scum takes some, here's the bit in the rules post where it says we get two random roles as a freebie.

Actually, re-reading Ash, he isn't actually saying that he thinks Mafia must have picked powers because of what mathdude is saying, I just mis-parsed Ash's argument on my first read through. Still, I think it's worth realising that we definitely have at least two from the list of Goon Cop, RB, Tracker, Bodyguard and Vig. (Since we must have 2-5 from the original list of 6, and clearly we have no IC this time round).

I do agree that without specific incriminating evidence, the time to start talking about PRs is usually around D3 or D4 of a game. The desire to do stats-based analysis of what game config we're in before that typically gets scumread, as I've learned from long, bitter experience :-P

So this is sort of what I was saying.  The setup to me seems like we have power roles.  So let's use them.  I guess I'm not used to them being hidden until D3 or D4.  Obviously not full claims, but at least start discussing them D1 or D2 is what I'm used to.

What things is Robz saying that you were trying to say?

This right here...
This post just strikes me as newbie trying to contribute meaningfully. I don't think it's a townie post particularly, and yes it's hedgy, but haven't we actually decided that hedginess is not actually a scum characteristic? Isn't it something I falsely claimed was hedgy 130 games ago?

Besides "should we just exile lurkers" is a point we end up debating every other game, and it turns out the pro-town answer is "basically, yes."
I'm trying to be a useful contributor.  That sometimes ends up coming off scummy.  And we should exile lurkers since they don't help town.
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #266 on: February 24, 2021, 09:06:44 am »

Vote: MiX
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jotheonah

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #267 on: February 24, 2021, 09:08:45 am »

And we should exile lurkers since they don't help town.

For the record, I agree with you, but for whatever reason that's just emphatically not the meta around here. It's darn-near impossible to actually push through a day 1 lurker exile.
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EFHW

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #268 on: February 24, 2021, 09:33:02 am »

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.
I mean... you jumping off the mathdude wagon for this is just exquisitely ironic.
Only if I jumped on the mathdude wagon as opportunistic scum. Since I actually jumped on as using-my-vote town, there is no particular irony here.
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #269 on: February 24, 2021, 09:37:16 am »

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.
I mean... you jumping off the mathdude wagon for this is just exquisitely ironic.
Only if I jumped on the mathdude wagon as opportunistic scum. Since I actually jumped on as using-my-vote town, there is no particular irony here.

Okay, then it's ironic if joth's also town.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #270 on: February 24, 2021, 09:44:59 am »

Well you have certainly been busy! I'll try to give some comments as I catch up.

I don't think Joth has really done anything scummy.

Do you think he is just doing joth things or do you think the things hes done are towny?

Do you?

I do, joths initial votes for Dylan, gkrieg, and robz all struck me as fishing for wagons, all for generic reasons that he quickly backed off of as soon as the wagons didn’t take off. His lack of acknowledgement to the initial votes on him and then frustration/impressedness at your vote for him (which is a vote that makes him significantly more likely to be exhiled) is good scum tactic.
Is fishing for wagons a bad thing?
I think so because it safely allows scum to find wagons town is willing to be a part of. I get that people like fishy for wagons so they can "catch" scum jumping on in a scummy way but I think it is more likely townies join stupid wagons then scum since they are less worried about the opticits so yea I'm not a fan of wagon fishing for "interactions" sake
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #271 on: February 24, 2021, 09:48:04 am »

The TLDR version:

I think mathdude slipped that they are either mafia or a PR.  My bet is most likely mafia, possibly role cop given the "gather information" focus.

(An aside: If I am right about role cop, mafia selected as least one power, and if they took role cop, I'd say they took at least two more.  That's all conjecture though, with no evidence.)

If they're town, they have a PR that gets a result, like Goon Cop or maybe Tracker.
Wait, wasn't the argument before that mathdude assumed he would live to play D2? And now it's that he supposedly slipped non-VT? Did you just swap out a decent argument for a worse one?
Those are one in the same, the assumption of being alive Day 2 is the mafia slip, and having some kind of result to work with, is the non-vt slip.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #272 on: February 24, 2021, 10:02:39 am »

Scumslips generally aren't real either, right?
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #273 on: February 24, 2021, 10:08:03 am »

Scumslips generally aren't real either, right?

I am guessing by this you mean to indicate that you don't think scumslips are generally a thing and that historically we as a forum have misexhiled more than caught scum off slips and in fact scum frequently uses it to exhile townies who make mistakes. I think while that is historically true its because we play with a similar small group over a long enough time that we learn what things not to do a scum and then in turn use that against townies who don't self edit carefully enough. This is different as it's not someone who would know that mentioning pr's is a big nono for scum and should actually be concerned about mentioning pr's if they are a town one.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #274 on: February 24, 2021, 11:15:48 am »

By the way, math's at L-2 and the biggest wagon is EFHW's. Just so you know.

So EFHW is E-1?

vote: EFHW

vote: mathdude

"biggest wagon is EFHW's" I think was referring to EFHW creating the most concerning part of the wagon... not that there was a large wagon on them.
No, MiX puts a lot of pressure on me Day 1 because he thinks that's the easiest day to get me exiled. One way he does it is to make comments like this, planting the seed that I am scummy and everyone thinks so. He would do this as town or scum, unfortunately, so it's pretty NAI.
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