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[jotheonah]

vote: arishipshape

When someone tells you who they are, listen.

[MiX]

Vote: joth, ari is being towny, not scummy. Also I can't quite shake the feeling you're not town...

[jotheonah]

First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!

is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:

My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?

Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.

[arishipshape]

First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!

is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:

My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?

Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.

How is that the scummiest thing you've ever read? It was complete and total transparency and honesty! The unvarnished truth!
Ok, MiX jumping to my immediate defense looks bad. I admit it. Thanks a lot MiX. But I'm sure my amazing clarity and truth telling will exceed any suspicion MiX throws on me.
I still don't understand the votes on MiX. Anyone on the MiX wagon, care to explain the "MiX is trying to get traitor to claim" theory?

[MiX]

Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies).

"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.

PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.

[arishipshape]

Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies).

"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.

PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.

...Hard to read? I'm insulted. I'll try to cut down on the excess verbiage, if that's what everyone thinks though.
Allow me to rephrase. Anyone on the MiX wagon, care to explain why MiX trying to make traitor claim makes MiX scum?

[Joseph2302]

Vote: joth, ari is being towny, not scummy. Also I can't quite shake the feeling you're not town...

I agree somewhat that ari seems different to the obv!scum!ari of the last time we played

PPE:1?

[MiX]

...Hard to read?

You should put more spaces and paragraphs IMO, kinda like I do 

[Glooble]

Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies).

"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.

PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.

...Hard to read? I'm insulted. I'll try to cut down on the excess verbiage, if that's what everyone thinks though.
Allow me to rephrase. Anyone on the MiX wagon, care to explain why MiX trying to make traitor claim makes MiX scum?

Tbh, I'm mostly sheeping Galz and mcmc/ trying to get some genuine pressure on MiX to see what happens, but at the time I made the vote Galz's argument made more sense to me than it does now. I just tried to explain it and ended up convincing myself I don't really understand it.
 

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch

This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?

[arishipshape]

I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch

This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?

The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.

[faust]

I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch

This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?

The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.

The lack of explanation has created approximately 347% the attention that an explained vote would have.

[arishipshape]

I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch

This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?

The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.

The lack of explanation has created approximately 347% the attention that an explained vote would have.

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.

[Glooble]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

[faust]

Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.

I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.

For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.

[arishipshape]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

Well then that's an anti town meta, and if they wont set it aside for games where I'm helping the town, I'm not letting them get away with it. Unhelpful =/= scum, continuing to be unhelpful after unhelpful-ness to town has been proven = scumpoints. But I'm not sure, yet. I don't think they're the best lynch today, at least.

Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.

I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.

For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.

Ha ha. Good. Once you've got an explanation on the table the town can discuss it, making people talk more, grant information, made deductions from that info, connect dots, and generally a slippery slope of town good-ness. I look forward to it. No rush, though. Real life takes priority.

[EFHW]

Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?

From what I understood, Lyncher has 1 target that is randomly picked from all VTs at the start of the game, and then they have a normal Doctor which is used to keep that VT safe from NKs.

Galzria, the point of forcing the claim is so, after no one claims, we can safely say promoter is scum. And judging by the resistance of this idea I'd say it's more likely that there's a scum!Promoter anyway. Town!Promoter being positive or negative utility doesn't matter, given it's scum's choice to kill him after he claims, which is bad regardless of utility

Promoter gives their target in their QT, so we never see them use their role and can't identify them as a particular player. I can think of some reasons why town!promoter might not want to claim. So I'm anti-promoter claim.

Thanks for the kind wishes

[chairs]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.

[MiX]

Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?

From what I understood, Lyncher has 1 target that is randomly picked from all VTs at the start of the game, and then they have a normal Doctor which is used to keep that VT safe from NKs.

Galzria, the point of forcing the claim is so, after no one claims, we can safely say promoter is scum. And judging by the resistance of this idea I'd say it's more likely that there's a scum!Promoter anyway. Town!Promoter being positive or negative utility doesn't matter, given it's scum's choice to kill him after he claims, which is bad regardless of utility

Promoter gives their target in their QT, so we never see them use their role and can't identify them as a particular player. I can think of some reasons why town!promoter might not want to claim. So I'm anti-promoter claim.

Thanks for the kind wishes

I don't understand what the first part has to do with claiming or not claiming...I do understand that town!Promoter should choose if they want to claim or not on their own: the problem is that's only 50% of the setups: in the other half, scum doesn't really want to claim, which is why I think it's good to force them to NOT claim, thus showing that the promoter is scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.

I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.

Question: do you think that joking and sarcasm, in players other than yourself, is a scumtell?

@ari I realize this is buried a bit back but I'm still interested in the answer to this question

[A Drowned Kernel]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.

chairs do you have any thoughts on this game?

[chairs]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.

chairs do you have any thoughts on this game?

Well, I had been thinking anti promoter claim but that post a few above mine points out forcing a promoter claim forces scum to either tell us more about the setup (by not claiming) or be a potentially dangerous “fake” claim. I think scum promoter claiming sets us up for a one vs one situation even, right?

[chairs]

TLDR this makes me more pro promoter claim

[arishipshape]

As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.

I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.

Question: do you think that joking and sarcasm, in players other than yourself, is a scumtell?

@ari I realize this is buried a bit back but I'm still interested in the answer to this question

I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.

[MiX]

That's essencially what I'm saying chairs, except I'm not so sure it creates a 1v1...conflicts with promoter seem like a mess as mcmc has alluded to, but I don't think they matter for claiming now, since those conflicts could simply happen later if we wait.

I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.

Why would jokes and sarcasm count more if said person's already scummy? Seems like confirmation bias to me.