1 Goon + 5 VTs | | | C | | | D |
A | | | | | | Supersaint Jester Macho 2-shot Cop Semi-Elite Bodyguard VT | | | | | | Mafia 1-shot BP Traitor Mafia Odd-Night Promoter VT Semi-Elite Bodyguard |
B | | | | | | Mafia Godfather Mafia Goon Town Odd-Night Promoter Semi-Elite Bodyguard | | | | | | Lyncher Doctor Vengeful Townie Psychologist Tracker |
After you are lynched you will kill the last player on your wagon at the end of the Night.
You win if you are lynched before the end of the game. Your lynch does not end the game. You may vote for yourself, but if your vote would be the final vote required for your lynch it will not count.
Each night you may target one player (possibly yourself) to protect them from one kill attempt.
Your target is {Player}, you know they are a VT.
You win if your target is lynched while you are still alive.
When your target dies you also die.
Your only weapons are your voice and your vote. Also your factional night kill. Each night, one member of your team with access to your team QT may target a player to attempt to kill them.
You may talk to your partner(s) at night here.
You win when at least half of the players left alive are members of the Mafia.
If you are investigated by the cop, they will be told you are town-aligned.
Each night, one member of your team with access to your team QT may target a player to attempt to kill them.
You may talk to your partners at night here.
You win when at least half of the players left alive are members of the Mafia.
Your teammates are {Player} and {Player}, but they do not know you.
If both of your teammates die, you inherit access to their team QT and their ability to target a player to attempt to kill each night.
You will survive the first time you would be killed at night.
You win when at least half of the players left alive are members of the Mafia.
Each odd-numbered night, you must nominate one player (possibly yourself) to enter a fight the next day. If you don't make a selection, one will be made for you at random. On the following day, your target must submit Challenge: {Playername} in bold in the game thread before 72 hours have passed. Otherwise a Challenger will be chosen at random. All votes will be reset, and for the rest of the Day only votes for one of the combatants will be accepted.
Each night, one member of your team with access to your team QT may target a player to attempt to kill them. You may attempt the kill and Promote a fight on the same night.
You may talk to your partner at night here.
You win when at least half of the players left alive are members of the Mafia.
Each odd-numbered night, you must nominate one player (possibly yourself) to enter a fight the next day. If you don't make a selection, one will be made for you at random. On the following day, your target must submit Challenge: {Playername} in bold in the game thread before 72 hours have passed. Otherwise a Challenger will be chosen at random. All votes will be reset, and for the rest of the Day only votes for one of the combatants will be accepted.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Each night you may target a player other than yourself to protect. If that player would be killed, they survive and you die instead.
If you and another Bodyguard both protect the same player, if you die for your target, together the two of you will also kill the attacker. This counts as one kill attempt.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
After you are lynched you may target a player on your wagon, you kill that player at the end of the Night.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Twice per game, you may use one of your shots at night to target a player to investigate. You will receive a result of “{Player} is town-aligned” or “{Player} is not town-aligned.”
If you would otherwise die at night and are protected by a Bodyguard, you will die anyway and the Bodyguard will survive.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Each night you may target a player to investigate. You will receive a result of “Can Kill” if they are capable of killing a player at night but have not yet done so. If they cannot kill, or if they have already killed someone, you will receive a result of “Cannot Kill.” This investigation resolves before the night’s kill.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Each night you may target a player to track. You will get the names of any player they targeted or “{Player} did not visit anyone.”
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Your only weapons are your voice and your vote.
You win when all Mafia are dead and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
/tag
/tag
You are in this game...?
/tag
You are in this game...?
He's tagging the thread so that he gets updates on it.
Not sure it's negative utility...I believe It's crucial to corner scum D2, provided Promoter has good reads. However, it depends on the Promoter and their target's reads a tad bit too much...but remember that it can't be (easily) influenced by scum. Overall I like the idea of claiming.
Good morning everyone!
So the thought I had on the setup is that I think the town promoter (if they exist) should just claim off the bat. It would create a pseudo-IC and give us info on the setup without actually revealing anything to scum, and it isn't a PR that we're worried about scum knowing about since it's negative utility. So unless there's something that I'm missing, there's really no downside to them claiming.
Good morning everyone!
So the thought I had on the setup is that I think the town promoter (if they exist) should just claim off the bat. It would create a pseudo-IC and give us info on the setup without actually revealing anything to scum, and it isn't a PR that we're worried about scum knowing about since it's negative utility. So unless there's something that I'm missing, there's really no downside to them claiming.
How does it create a pseudo-IC? What stops the scum-aligned promoter from claiming town promoter?
Vote: arishipshapeBring it on, MiX! I entirely deserve this vote, after my performance last game. However, I got my wish this game. I'm the good guy. 8) For the record I totally did NOT lay low last game, at least day 1. Anyways, finger of suspicion on Joseph for claiming SK. Yes, yes, it was obviously sarcastic, blah blah blah. In my experience, at least with ten minute mafia, when you claim a scum role, it improves the chances that you are scum. Besides, townies shouldn't pull that crap. It's lost so many games in the past. Just don't lie as town. Period. There's already two bandwagons out, so I'm not gonna start a new one. Vote: MiX, because last time I did that, I won. And Faust rocks, so I'm gonna follow his lead. For now.
Because I will not allow for him to lay low again. Prove your townieness!
Apologies: when I said lay low, I meant exploit your newness to its full extent. Multiple bandwagons are absolutely town: just look how Promoter is negative utility precisely because it limits our options to two people. Also, you've seen town!Joseph do the exact same, yet you think it means they're more likely to be scum: why? I also believe town should be able to lie sometimes, it's sometimes useful and can blow the game wide open if they do it correctly.Apology accepted. I won't be abusing my noob-ness this game. Wow. I can't believe I forgot about multiple wagons being optimal for town... I guess I'm less obsessed with town optimal-ness when I'm actually town. Vote:Joseph, because of my previously stated reasons and MiX reminding me that more wagons=good. I've seen town!Joseph claim scum, sure. On the whole, claiming scum, lying as town, crazy gambits, they sow confusion, discord, and strife. One of the best ways to town hunt is to find people that are utterly consistent. Lying makes it impossible to stay consistent: you have to backpedal. If all the towns always told the truth, the game would be much easier, as we would have 3 liars to deal with, instead of any number. I held this position last game, and I hold it this game. Lying hurts town.
What are your opinions on the current setup talk, that is, Promoter claim?
vote: arishipshape for jumping on Joseph for what was clearly a joke (claiming a role not even in the setup) and treating it like a legit claim. Feels disingenuous.I'm not treating it like a claim! I'm saying he lied, ergo he has a higher chance of being scum! Joking is not wise to do in a mafia game. Unless, of course, your goal is to spread confusion. Then joke all you want. Who do we know that benefits from confusion?
I'm the SK
vote: arishipshape for jumping on Joseph for what was clearly a joke (claiming a role not even in the setup) and treating it like a legit claim. Feels disingenuous.I'm not treating it like a claim! I'm saying he lied, ergo he has a higher chance of being scum! Joking is not wise to do in a mafia game. Unless, of course, your goal is to spread confusion. Then joke all you want. Who do we know that benefits from confusion?
I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
vote: arishipshape for jumping on Joseph for what was clearly a joke (claiming a role not even in the setup) and treating it like a legit claim. Feels disingenuous.I'm not treating it like a claim! I'm saying he lied, ergo he has a higher chance of being scum! Joking is not wise to do in a mafia game. Unless, of course, your goal is to spread confusion. Then joke all you want. Who do we know that benefits from confusion?
But you've seen what happened last time he did it: he was town and the claim did absolutely nothing. I think I speak for all of us when I say that Joseph saying "I am the SK" translates to "I am Joseph" when said by him and has no other meaning behind it.I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
Vote: gkrieg
I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
ThisGood morning everyone!
So the thought I had on the setup is that I think the town promoter (if they exist) should just claim off the bat. It would create a pseudo-IC and give us info on the setup without actually revealing anything to scum, and it isn't a PR that we're worried about scum knowing about since it's negative utility. So unless there's something that I'm missing, there's really no downside to them claiming.
How does it create a pseudo-IC? What stops the scum-aligned promoter from claiming town promoter?
ThisGood morning everyone!
So the thought I had on the setup is that I think the town promoter (if they exist) should just claim off the bat. It would create a pseudo-IC and give us info on the setup without actually revealing anything to scum, and it isn't a PR that we're worried about scum knowing about since it's negative utility. So unless there's something that I'm missing, there's really no downside to them claiming.
How does it create a pseudo-IC? What stops the scum-aligned promoter from claiming town promoter?
They would risk getting caught eventually if the traitor ever flips.
I just had surgery, so I'm vla for awhile. I don't know exactly how long. After that I will have tons of time sitting at homeOh wow, I hope everything went well. Have a swift recovery!
Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
...Would you care to explain this reason? Preferably in glorious detail?I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
...Would you care to explain this reason? Preferably in glorious detail?I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.
I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
...WHAT? What even is this!? I'll grant you guys have a point about Joseph. But seriously, be precise in your speech town! Don't lie, don't be ambiguous, be consistent, be CLEAR! Saying Joseph isn't scum and then voting him makes zero sense. Vote:gkrieg13. I'm aware my vote flying around willy nilly probably looks scummy, but people keep disproving my points.
I just had surgery, so I'm vla for awhile. I don't know exactly how long. After that I will have tons of time sitting at home
I'm the SK
Well Joseph isn’t scum.
vote: Joseph
Yep, it's gotta be a vote: Joseph.
Nice to see you again, gkrieg :-)
I'm suddenly rather busier than I expected to be, so I'm kind of under-prepared for this game. I know get frustrated when people claim they haven't read the setup, but yeah, here's me more or less not having thought about anything at all yet. Sorry!
Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet....Would you care to explain this reason? Preferably in glorious detail?I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
Your time is better spent elsewhere.
Woooo so happy to be back!
Some quick setup info because I think it helps to make sure town is aware and scum will have discussed/analyzed the setup a lot.
There can only be one promoter and mafia (including traitor) know which one exists.
There is only one of the Jester/Lyncher existing and the cop/vengeful townie/psychologist/tracker know which one exists.
A promoter claim is scary.
If we have a town promoter their claim is okay, they become an ic when The Godfather flips but means nothing before then because it could be mafia lying.
If we have a town promoter and mafia pretends to claim it is a 1v1 which is great.
If we have a town promoter and the jester pretends to claim it is perfect for the jester. Mafia can easily avoid hammering as they know they are not the town promoter and not fake claiming.
If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
If we have a mafia promoter the mafia traitor could claim promoter to signify to the mafia they exist and they know there is no town promoter.
If we have a mafia promoter the jester could again claim to confuse people or counter claim which would make mafia(or traitor) aware of who the jester but would be forced to keep up the ruse and try to kill the jester.
What all this says to me is that the jester wants us to “force” a promoter claim really bad I think.
It also provides a potential way for the traitor to come out to their partners. In the end it does t help town that much either so I think strict no promoter claim is the right way to go.
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.
Joth tends to be very flippant and sarcastic, which sometimes makes people read him as scum, but it's actually not indicative of his alignment at all. He's not usually confrontational and tends to try to de-escalate when other players get heated towards one another.
Obligatory twinclaim: joth is my literal twin.
Woooo so happy to be back!
Some quick setup info because I think it helps to make sure town is aware and scum will have discussed/analyzed the setup a lot.
There can only be one promoter and mafia (including traitor) know which one exists.
There is only one of the Jester/Lyncher existing and the cop/vengeful townie/psychologist/tracker know which one exists.
A promoter claim is scary.
If we have a town promoter their claim is okay, they become an ic when The Godfather flips but means nothing before then because it could be mafia lying.
If we have a town promoter and mafia pretends to claim it is a 1v1 which is great.
If we have a town promoter and the jester pretends to claim it is perfect for the jester. Mafia can easily avoid hammering as they know they are not the town promoter and not fake claiming.
If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
If we have a mafia promoter the mafia traitor could claim promoter to signify to the mafia they exist and they know there is no town promoter.
If we have a mafia promoter the jester could again claim to confuse people or counter claim which would make mafia(or traitor) aware of who the jester but would be forced to keep up the ruse and try to kill the jester.
What all this says to me is that the jester wants us to “force” a promoter claim really bad I think.
It also provides a potential way for the traitor to come out to their partners. In the end it does t help town that much either so I think strict no promoter claim is the right way to go.
We can just confirm if a claimed promoter is lying by asking them at the start of the next day who they targeted, though, and if they don't get it right we know they're lying.
Also the mafia promoter is devastatingly strong. Like we need them dead so so quickly.
Also the mafia promoter is devastatingly strong. Like we need them dead so so quickly.
Why? If they choose one of their own, the town has a 50% chance of hitting scum. If they choose a town player they have no way to assure that player won't choose scum. Are the odds that any given town player correctly identifies scum really all that much worse than the odds of lynching scum on a given day? Especially considering that the gladiator doesn't have to choose their target immediately and can, if they wish, solicit the input of the rest of the town (72 hours is a decent amount of time)?
If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
Isn't this part good though?
Mcmc's setup talk overestimates Jester fakeclaiming: If two people claim promoter, why would we assume there's scum between them? Two promoter claims do seem like a complete mess...one that could be figured out right now, because there's no reason to assume that it won't happen in future days. Unless you would rather have promoter be NKd to avoid it?If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
Isn't this part good though?
Yes? Why wouldn't it be? But I doubt no one will claim promoter here.
As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
If 2 Bodyguards target the same player and that player would die, both die, but they kill the attacker.
This doesn't work on the Cop.
Mcmc's setup talk overestimates Jester fakeclaiming: If two people claim promoter, why would we assume there's scum between them? Two promoter claims do seem like a complete mess...one that could be figured out right now, because there's no reason to assume that it won't happen in future days. Unless you would rather have promoter be NKd to avoid it?If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
Isn't this part good though?
Yes? Why wouldn't it be? But I doubt no one will claim promoter here.
mcmc's whole post is that promoter claiming is bad, but this point seems to be a pretty good one in favor of the promoter claiming. And is that double negative intentional?
As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
QuoteIf 2 Bodyguards target the same player and that player would die, both die, but they kill the attacker.
This doesn't work on the Cop.
When you say "this doesn't work on the cop", does that mean the bodyguards wouldn't protect the cop, the bodyguards would protect the cop but wouldn't die, the bodyguards would die but not kill the attacker, or what?
As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
Question: do you think that joking and sarcasm, in players other than yourself, is a scumtell?
If the double negative refers to the third part of my post then yes. "I believe someone will claim promoter" is a better way to phrase it. I suppose you're right saying that mcmc said that the most likely thing to happen is a pro-town thing, but that's only in half of the setups and it might not even happen. He's also right in that scum!Promoter won't claim and instead Traitor will, there's just no reason for them to claim.
If the double negative refers to the third part of my post then yes. "I believe someone will claim promoter" is a better way to phrase it. I suppose you're right saying that mcmc said that the most likely thing to happen is a pro-town thing, but that's only in half of the setups and it might not even happen. He's also right in that scum!Promoter won't claim and instead Traitor will, there's just no reason for them to claim.
Why do you believe someone will claim, given that there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement over whether it's a good thing?
If the double negative refers to the third part of my post then yes. "I believe someone will claim promoter" is a better way to phrase it. I suppose you're right saying that mcmc said that the most likely thing to happen is a pro-town thing, but that's only in half of the setups and it might not even happen. He's also right in that scum!Promoter won't claim and instead Traitor will, there's just no reason for them to claim.
Why do you believe someone will claim, given that there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement over whether it's a good thing?
I meant if town wants to go forward with this claim. The scenario that I'm discarding is "town says promoter should claim and no one claims, proving that the promoter's scum", that's a daydream that will never happen.
QuoteIf 2 Bodyguards target the same player and that player would die, both die, but they kill the attacker.
This doesn't work on the Cop.
When you say "this doesn't work on the cop", does that mean the bodyguards wouldn't protect the cop, the bodyguards would protect the cop but wouldn't die, the bodyguards would die but not kill the attacker, or what?
Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
The first two posts I do every game is to claim SK and then vote for someone from Real Life Mafia 1Vote: arishipshapeBring it on, MiX! I entirely deserve this vote, after my performance last game. However, I got my wish this game. I'm the good guy. 8) For the record I totally did NOT lay low last game, at least day 1. Anyways, finger of suspicion on Joseph for claiming SK. Yes, yes, it was obviously sarcastic, blah blah blah. In my experience, at least with ten minute mafia, when you claim a scum role, it improves the chances that you are scum. Besides, townies shouldn't pull that crap. It's lost so many games in the past. Just don't lie as town. Period. There's already two bandwagons out, so I'm not gonna start a new one. Vote: MiX, because last time I did that, I won. And Faust rocks, so I'm gonna follow his lead. For now.
Because I will not allow for him to lay low again. Prove your townieness!
Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
After mcmc's post I'm not 100% I'm on the pro-claim crew anymore.
That is another benefit to the promoter claiming, though.
Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?
You were obviously scum that game too. No idea how you got away with it.....As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
Well, we're close to starting. I'm going to go ahead and claim Jester.
Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
2) Joth is def the Jester.
I'm confused about why we think scum won't just kill the town promoter right away if they claim.
Or are we okay with that?
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?
Sure, but there's directing in the sense of "everybody has an opinion" and directing in the sense of "we're all going to vote on who you should use your power on, and if you use it on anybody else we'll lynch you on day 3".
I'm confused about why we think scum won't just kill the town promoter right away if they claim.
Or are we okay with that?
Nevermind, I found it. I wanted to point to the fact that I tried to claim Jester before the game started as evidence that it was, in fact, a joke.Well, we're close to starting. I'm going to go ahead and claim Jester.
But you know, now that I've introduced the WIFOM I definitely can't put it back in the bag, so we'll leave that as a problem for another day.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
So, ADK, why are you against claiming?
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I don't think anyone's chance of guessing right is that good. It's like a vigilante; awesome if they guess right, terrible if they guess wrong, and their odds aren't good.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I don't think anyone's chance of guessing right is that good. It's like a vigilante; awesome if they guess right, terrible if they guess wrong, and their odds aren't good.
Would you consider a compulsive vig-granter to be negative utility?
How is there always a promoter? Am I reading the setup wrong? There's 4 quadrants and we get the 4 things in that quadrant, right?Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
After mcmc's post I'm not 100% I'm on the pro-claim crew anymore.
That is another benefit to the promoter claiming, though.
Right now I'm simply thinking: if the worst part of a promoter claim is a conflict, why delay it? So, ADK, why are you against claiming?
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
Vote: DatSwan for not reading the setup: there's always a Promoter. Not reading the setup seems like something scum!Swan would loooove to do since he performed that in RMM52, where he was town.
How is there always a promoter? Am I reading the setup wrong? There's 4 quadrants and we get the 4 things in that quadrant, right?Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
After mcmc's post I'm not 100% I'm on the pro-claim crew anymore.
That is another benefit to the promoter claiming, though.
Right now I'm simply thinking: if the worst part of a promoter claim is a conflict, why delay it? So, ADK, why are you against claiming?
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
Vote: DatSwan for not reading the setup: there's always a Promoter. Not reading the setup seems like something scum!Swan would loooove to do since he performed that in RMM52, where he was town.
And only 2 of these have a promoter. ......
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.
...Would you care to explain this reason? Preferably in glorious detail?I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
It's cute how you think I post an unexplained vote and then explain it just because you ask nicely.I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
And that is...?
...Would you care to explain this reason? Preferably in glorious detail?I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.It's cute how you think I post an unexplained vote and then explain it just because you ask nicely.I have some sort of reason to vote for ADK.Vote: ADKFaust, is this a pressure vote, or do you have some sort of reason to believe A Drowned Kernel is scummy or something? Explain.
And that is...?
Let's just say if gkrieg were the Traitor, we'd already know...Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.
How is there always a promoter? Am I reading the setup wrong? There's 4 quadrants and we get the 4 things in that quadrant, right?I sure hope we're in one of the scenarios that have only 1 scum!
And only 2 of these have a promoter. ......
*technically 2How is there always a promoter? Am I reading the setup wrong? There's 4 quadrants and we get the 4 things in that quadrant, right?I sure hope we're in one of the scenarios that have only 1 scum!
And only 2 of these have a promoter. ......
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?
Sure, but there's directing in the sense of "everybody has an opinion" and directing in the sense of "we're all going to vote on who you should use your power on, and if you use it on anybody else we'll lynch you on day 3".
Hmm. If the latter happens, I suggest we lynch them D2 instead. Otherwise I believe voting's better, but it will most likely drag the game down. So it'll depend on how early promoter claims, the earlier the better. So, scum, claim now for town points! They're free!
Mcmc's setup talk overestimates Jester fakeclaiming: If two people claim promoter, why would we assume there's scum between them? Two promoter claims do seem like a complete mess...one that could be figured out right now, because there's no reason to assume that it won't happen in future days. Unless you would rather have promoter be NKd to avoid it?If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
Isn't this part good though?
Yes? Why wouldn't it be? But I doubt no one will claim promoter here.
vote: MiX
vote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Sure, but there's directing in the sense of "everybody has an opinion" and directing in the sense of "we're all going to vote on who you should use your power on, and if you use it on anybody else we'll lynch you on day 3".
Hmm. If the latter happens, I suggest we lynch them D2 instead. Otherwise I believe voting's better, but it will most likely drag the game down. So it'll depend on how early promoter claims, the earlier the better. So, scum, claim now for town points! They're free!
But can we lynch them day 2? I thought the whole promoter/gladiator thing meant we can't lynch anybody we want to day 2...
Mcmc's setup talk overestimates Jester fakeclaiming: If two people claim promoter, why would we assume there's scum between them? Two promoter claims do seem like a complete mess...one that could be figured out right now, because there's no reason to assume that it won't happen in future days. Unless you would rather have promoter be NKd to avoid it?If we have a mafia promoter most likely they won’t claim and then all non mafia power roles will instantly know the entire setup.
Isn't this part good though?
Yes? Why wouldn't it be? But I doubt no one will claim promoter here.
Exactly, my post was meant to lay out all the potential scenarios in a forced promoter claim and unfortunately I think the good scenarios are not super helpful and are far less likely than the bad scenarios.
vote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Makes sense. If only i could do maths I could have realised that 1 quadrant is just 10 people.....How is there always a promoter? Am I reading the setup wrong? There's 4 quadrants and we get the 4 things in that quadrant, right?Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
After mcmc's post I'm not 100% I'm on the pro-claim crew anymore.
That is another benefit to the promoter claiming, though.
Right now I'm simply thinking: if the worst part of a promoter claim is a conflict, why delay it? So, ADK, why are you against claiming?
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
Vote: DatSwan for not reading the setup: there's always a Promoter. Not reading the setup seems like something scum!Swan would loooove to do since he performed that in RMM52, where he was town.
And only 2 of these have a promoter. ......
We have two quadrants, either the top two, the bottom two, the left two, or the right two.
Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Question for ADK and the pro-claim crew:
If a promoter claims, is our next move to try to direct their power use? I sort of like that since then the fake-claiming scum promoter is locked into using their power in a town-powered way or else giving themselves away.
After mcmc's post I'm not 100% I'm on the pro-claim crew anymore.
That is another benefit to the promoter claiming, though.
Right now I'm simply thinking: if the worst part of a promoter claim is a conflict, why delay it? So, ADK, why are you against claiming?
Directing the promoter will happen naturally after they claim, it's essencially inevitable, there's almost no reason to have an opinion on it, and if there is why say it?Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here
Summary of thoughts:
1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.
Vote: DatSwan for not reading the setup: there's always a Promoter. Not reading the setup seems like something scum!Swan would loooove to do since he performed that in RMM52, where he was town.
I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
You already know that one exists. You just don’t know if they are scum or town.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
You already know that one exists. You just don’t know if they are scum or town.
Right but i don’t think anyone is arguing the negative utility of the skum version.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
You already know that one exists. You just don’t know if they are scum or town.
Right but i don’t think anyone is arguing the negative utility of the skum version.
What?
I’m not talking utility, positive or negative, for either faction here. You said: “... and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not”. There is no “or not” - a Promoter exists, and their power is compulsive.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.I don't think that kind of reasoning is fruitful. Scum have taken the side that they believe is the correct play. It does not pay off for them to lie about this stuff. What I will say is that scum probably happily engaged in all this setup talk that brings us nowhere.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.I don't think that kind of reasoning is fruitful. Scum have taken the side that they believe is the correct play. It does not pay off for them to lie about this stuff. What I will say is that scum probably happily engaged in all this setup talk that brings us nowhere.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.I don't think that kind of reasoning is fruitful. Scum have taken the side that they believe is the correct play. It does not pay off for them to lie about this stuff. What I will say is that scum probably happily engaged in all this setup talk that brings us nowhere.
I disagree.
vote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicion
As for "setup talk that gets us nowhere", if you have another topic you wish to talk about, go ahead. "You" here is collectively, of course.Here's a crazy out there suggestion: We could talk about who we think is scum. For example, what is your opinion on everyone's favorite scumsters ADK and DatSwan?
As for "setup talk that gets us nowhere", if you have another topic you wish to talk about, go ahead. "You" here is collectively, of course.Here's a crazy out there suggestion: We could talk about who we think is scum. For example, what is your opinion on everyone's favorite scumsters ADK and DatSwan?
Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.Now that's interesting
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
This is also pretty accurate.
There are some town that honestly, incorrectly, believe that the role is negative utility. If there’s a scum!Promoter, then it’s a fairly valuable tool, and they aren’t going to claim. Being able to force a lynch between {Town*:X} is quite strong. If it’s a town!Promoter, it’s also rather valuable, as they’ll get to ensure their top scum read is one of two players to be lynchable the following day - and if that player happens to be town, they’ll likely be challenging their own top scum read. I’ll take that any day.
If it’s a Scum!Promoter, they aren’t claiming. If it’s a town!promoter, scum (plus some misguided town) want that player dead.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.
Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.Now that's interesting
Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.
As for "setup talk that gets us nowhere", if you have another topic you wish to talk about, go ahead. "You" here is collectively, of course.Here's a crazy out there suggestion: We could talk about who we think is scum. For example, what is your opinion on everyone's favorite scumsters ADK and DatSwan?
Townread on Datswan. I don’t think scum faking not knowing the setup is a thing and I don’t think acum not knowing the setup is a thing.I for one don't think there is evidence to support the idea that DatSwan didn't read the setup.
Slight scumread on ADK, but I’m not vote-level confident.Am I to take from this that you think Glooble (who you're currently voting for) is scummier than ADK?
Of the people who have participated in the setup discussion:
MiX- I'm leaning town, his posts tend to have an organic feel to them
joth- Leaning scum, his posts seem more reactive and less "rock-the-boat"
mcmc- The idea that MiX is/was traitor hunting seems like a reach to me, but also looks like genuine scumhunting, so some townpoints
galz- Disagreement on the power level of promoter aside, I think his post about where scum falls in the discussion was a little scummy; it looks like he's making a definitive statement without committing him to any particular read
faust- I can never read faust, I'll just assume that he's town for now
datswan- seems confused about the setup, his posts confuse me so I'm confused as to where his confusion actually lies. Pretty much null here.
vote: joth
In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.What are your conclusions from this?
Slight scumread on ADK, but I’m not vote-level confident.Am I to take from this that you think Glooble (who you're currently voting for) is scummier than ADK?
In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.
In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.What are your conclusions from this?
In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.
That was awhile ago. Looking back at your posts, my question for you is, what info were you hoping to get out of asking me if I thought that a compulsive vig was negative utility?
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts,FTFYeverything becomes much clearer:you are wrong.
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts,FTFYeverything becomes much clearer:you are wrong.
The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.
No it doesn't and it isn't.Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts,FTFYeverything becomes much clearer:you are wrong.
The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.
It provides additional town control over the kill, which is similar.
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.
Man, I wish I had the faith in vigs that you guys seem to.
Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.
Man, I wish I had the faith in vigs that you guys seem to.
When you're on a team, you should trust your teammates. I find faust's argument that promoter = vig is a flawed analogy more convincing than your argument that vigs are negative utility.
No I think you're arguing the same thing in different ways, and I'm just saying his is better.
in fact vote: ADK
Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.
I'm an open book. AMA.
No I think you're arguing the same thing in different ways, and I'm just saying his is better.
Is this related to your scumread on me, or tangential?
I feel like we're focusing a lot on ADK and joth, once this is settled I'll need to see how this came to be.in fact vote: ADK
Why? Just, why? I'll also use this to say that joth is simply ASSUMING promoter is town when talking about it, something that we do not know. Clearly, the claim shouldn't be forced if we knew promoter was town, since we could trust them to know when to claim.
I agree with Glooble that it was pretty weird how Glooble wasn't mentioned. But I don't think it's that important, speaks more about Glooble than ADK to me.Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.
I'm an open book. AMA.
What do you think of me?
A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.
A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.
B) We were specifically talking about the utility of a town promoter, so that's where my head was. Also, we can't really force a scum promoter to claim, so realistically a forced claim is going to land on a town promoter.
C) My main experience with you so far was a mod's eye view of DS9, in which you were a serial killer, which is not a super-helpful precedent. So I haven't figured out how to read you yet. You strike me as the sort of person who is easy to misread as scummy when you're town, but that also makes it hard to tell if you're scum.
A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.
Terrible.
A) Do you believe you're voting for ADK for the same reasons faust is? And also: do you care if this is true or not?
Why are you voting for joth again?
Why are you voting for joth again?
At time I voted, his reads seemed both sheepy and non-committal. At this point it might be a little OMGUS, but I just don't read his read on me as genuine.
Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts,FTFYeverything becomes much clearer:you are wrong.
The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.
Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.
Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.
vote: MiX for this awful vote.
vote: chairs for not having shown up yet.
If I could vote MiX a second time here, I would.
If I could vote MiX a second time here, I would.
Do you think pushing for the claim is scummy? If so, why? I continue to believe forcing a claim is good if there's scum!Promoter since it locks scum into making a decision here and now and it means we won't have this problem later in the game (town!Promoter claiming gives some power to scum as they can decide if he lives or dies but that's the price we pay). If this is not why you're voting for me, do you want to say what said reason is?
This is when I would change my vote after a reread, but I still want it to be on chairs.
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I've been gone all day and need to start getting into things, and this seems a good starting point! :-)
I would say that Joseph would jump on a wagon just for entertainment value without actually thinking through consequences. Mix doesn't tend to feel that spontaneous.. he's more an over-thinker.
Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?
Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?
So this me and the Lyncher Doctor wants a random VT to die, and that's their win condition?Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?
From what I understood, Lyncher has 1 target that is randomly picked from all VTs at the start of the game, and then they have a normal Doctor which is used to keep that VT safe from NKs.
Galzria, the point of forcing the claim is so, after no one claims, we can safely say promoter is scum. And judging by the resistance of this idea I'd say it's more likely that there's a scum!Promoter anyway. Town!Promoter being positive or negative utility doesn't matter, given it's scum's choice to kill him after he claims, which is bad regardless of utility
Request prod on chairs
Uncleeurope, how does lyncher doctor work? Can you explain in glorious detail?
Uncleeurope, how does lyncher doctor work? Can you explain in glorious detail?
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I've been gone all day and need to start getting into things, and this seems a good starting point! :-)
I would say that Joseph would jump on a wagon just for entertainment value without actually thinking through consequences. Mix doesn't tend to feel that spontaneous.. he's more an over-thinker.
Do you think that MiX's vote is scummy?
Why are we so concerned about how the lyncher doctor works?
Uncleeurope, how does lyncher doctor work? Can you explain in glorious detail?
Please, specify the question. The sample QT is in the opening post.
Each night you may target one player (possibly yourself) to protect them from one kill attempt.That sounds like a doctor to me, so I'm happy so far.
Your target is {Player}, you know they are a VT.Does this refer to a totally different "target" than they've just been told they can pick nightly? Usually when a PM says "you may pick a target", then goes on to talk about "your target", those two are the same person. However, in this case I think they must not be. If I'm correct, then why not rename this second use of "target" to be something like "Desired Lynchee"?
Vote Count 1.1
Using this suggested terminology, the Lyncher Doctor has a particular Desired Lynchee, picked out by the mods from the pool of VTs during the setup phase of the game. If that lynchee dies through any method other than being lynched, the Lyncher Doctor dies too, and cannot win. Lyncher Doctor is allowed to use the doctor action each night to target someone. That target could be their Desired Lynchee, or could be themself, but could also in theory be any other player.
Does the above summarise the role of Lyncher Doctor successfully?
Vote Count 1.1
Glooble is voting twice here.
If that lynchee dies through any method other than being lynched, the Lyncher Doctor dies too, and cannot win.
Correct. And I was obviously scum. Ergo, my strategy revealed the scum. Therefore, it is pro town. I'll probably have to come up with a better strategy for when I'm scum... But hey, i don't need to worry about that this game!To be frank, you did the same things in the game you quoted.As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
...Why do you think this?I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiXIs voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
How is that the scummiest thing you've ever read? It was complete and total transparency and honesty! The unvarnished truth!First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.
Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies)....Hard to read? I'm insulted. I'll try to cut down on the excess verbiage, if that's what everyone thinks though.
"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.
PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.
Vote: joth, ari is being towny, not scummy. Also I can't quite shake the feeling you're not town...I agree somewhat that ari seems different to the obv!scum!ari of the last time we played
...Hard to read?
Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies)....Hard to read? I'm insulted. I'll try to cut down on the excess verbiage, if that's what everyone thinks though.
"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.
PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.
Allow me to rephrase. Anyone on the MiX wagon, care to explain why MiX trying to make traitor claim makes MiX scum?
I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch
The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch
This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?
The lack of explanation has created approximately 347% the attention that an explained vote would have.The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch
This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.The lack of explanation has created approximately 347% the attention that an explained vote would have.The lack of reasons makes me think they are trying to lay low and avoid attention. While this is absolutely something Scum would do, it's also something a PR would do. I want to give em a chance to use their night actions and claim tomorrow, with the extra cred for actually having done a night action, just in case they are a PR.I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch
This stood out to me. What? Why not a day 1 lynch?
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.
Ha ha. Good. Once you've got an explanation on the table the town can discuss it, making people talk more, grant information, made deductions from that info, connect dots, and generally a slippery slope of town good-ness. I look forward to it. No rush, though. Real life takes priority.Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.
For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.
Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?
From what I understood, Lyncher has 1 target that is randomly picked from all VTs at the start of the game, and then they have a normal Doctor which is used to keep that VT safe from NKs.
Galzria, the point of forcing the claim is so, after no one claims, we can safely say promoter is scum. And judging by the resistance of this idea I'd say it's more likely that there's a scum!Promoter anyway. Town!Promoter being positive or negative utility doesn't matter, given it's scum's choice to kill him after he claims, which is bad regardless of utility
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.
Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?
From what I understood, Lyncher has 1 target that is randomly picked from all VTs at the start of the game, and then they have a normal Doctor which is used to keep that VT safe from NKs.
Galzria, the point of forcing the claim is so, after no one claims, we can safely say promoter is scum. And judging by the resistance of this idea I'd say it's more likely that there's a scum!Promoter anyway. Town!Promoter being positive or negative utility doesn't matter, given it's scum's choice to kill him after he claims, which is bad regardless of utility
Promoter gives their target in their QT, so we never see them use their role and can't identify them as a particular player. I can think of some reasons why town!promoter might not want to claim. So I'm anti-promoter claim.
Thanks for the kind wishes :)
As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
Question: do you think that joking and sarcasm, in players other than yourself, is a scumtell?
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.
Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.
Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.
chairs do you have any thoughts on this game?
I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend.
Question: do you think that joking and sarcasm, in players other than yourself, is a scumtell?
@ari I realize this is buried a bit back but I'm still interested in the answer to this question
I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.
Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.
It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.
Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.
chairs do you have any thoughts on this game?
Well, I had been thinking anti promoter claim but that post a few above mine points out forcing a promoter claim forces scum to either tell us more about the setup (by not claiming) or be a potentially dangerous “fake” claim. I think scum promoter claiming sets us up for a one vs one situation even, right?
No, scum promoter can safely fakeclaim town promoter since there's no one to counterclaim them. And how would we go about "forcing" a promoter claim?
I can think of no rebuttal. I retract my statements regarding sarcasm and joking being scum points, although they should still be avoided.I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.
Why would jokes and sarcasm count more if said person's already scummy? Seems like confirmation bias to me.
To clarify, if you believe town promoter is negative utility, outing them tells scum to avoid them, increasing the chance scum hits an investigative role. If you believe town promoter is positive utility why would you ever want to out them?
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.
Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.
Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily
Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily
Can you guys just move on already?
I think he's a bit towny.Can you guys just move on already?
Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.
Two people have started it.Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily
"We" is a fairly limited term here I think
Can you guys just move on already?
Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.
Not played with him much, but nothing screaming scummy to me right nowCan you guys just move on already?
Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.
Can you guys just move on already?
Can you guys just move on already?
Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.
Two people have started it.Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily
"We" is a fairly limited term here I think
Vote: ADKEven after repeated pressure from me and ADK, Faust has refused to provide justification for this vote. I've repeatedly stated why this is super anti town, I don't want to sound like a broken record. If anyone needs to know why this is scummy, ask. Or re-read me.
Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.
I sure hope we're in one of the scenarios that have only 1 scum!
I think he's a bit towny.
Can you guys just move on already?
Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.
Let's just say if gkrieg were the Traitor, we'd already know...Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.
Seriously, gkrieg tends to have pretty good reads as town but for some reason people read him scummy and he gets mislynched frequently. As scum he's much easier to detect IRL. chairs is like always kind of excited when he starts playing, and then something terrible happens in his life and he can't participate. He's also very much a gut feeling kind of player. joth I feel I haven't really played with enough yet. Galzria's current meta is unfortunately that he lurks until he is replaced.
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)
Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.
If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.
MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)
Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.
This is a compelling case and I'm comfortable continuing to vote for MiX.
I would also vote for ari at this point though. The recently posted faust case comes feels manipulative to me. Just dumps a bunch of quotes with no context. For exampleIf town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.
MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)
Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.
What do you think of Fuast refusing to explain his vote?
Seriously faust isn't really seeming scummyWhat do you think of Fuast refusing to explain his vote?
I think that faust believes that the information that explanation would give to scum outweighs the helpful information it would give to town.
How is that the scummiest thing you've ever read? It was complete and total transparency and honesty! The unvarnished truth!First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.
So much to go through...faust isn't scummy, ari, your case isn't really a case as it is stating faust's posts...which are pretty towny. Well, faust towny, which means I have no idea what he is.
joth, what's your ari case? And Glooble, why do you like mcmc's case on me?
I agree, unprompted speculations on "if I were scum" is pretty scummy. When did I do that?How is that the scummiest thing you've ever read? It was complete and total transparency and honesty! The unvarnished truth!First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.
This is going to sound dumb, but I have a little mental notebook of scumtells based on my own experiences. One of them is this: Unprompted "if I were scum..." reflections are much more likely to come from scum who thinks they're being clever than from town. Why? Because town isn't thinking about if they were scum. I've found this to be fairly reliable.
Also ari's case on faust is terrible, and faust is definitely town here.
Come join me on the ari wagon, friends!
So much to go through...faust isn't scummy, ari, your case isn't really a case as it is stating faust's posts...which are pretty towny. Well, faust towny, which means I have no idea what he is.
joth, what's your ari case? And Glooble, why do you like mcmc's case on me?
two posts up
If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum.
Reason number one. Unexplained vote.
Reason number two. General unhelpful-ness.
Finally, I also just get a scummy vibe from him.
Vote: ari
I really don't like Ari's faust case, but I don't think it's malicious/scummy per se, just a bit of an indication that they're a newbie with little feel for people's meta, or the overall meta of f.ds mafia.Greetings. Bring on the criticism, it's pro town play. Thank you for the advice and context. I will keep it in mind. Unvote.
@Ari, hi! I don't think we've played before. Apologies for starting out our interaction with a criticism, but coming into a game with a blunt assertion that it's anti-town not to share everything, while obviously being unaware of the long history of this having been discussed in numerous games before, is a bit naive, and really isn't going to win over many of the vets. Faust is a seasoned player who knows what he's doing. He comes across as weirdly cantankerous sometimes, and economical with his words, but that's not alignment indicative. The only reliable tell I found for him being scum is that if you get into a situation where there's complex logical reasoning, he can sometime spin it the wrong way to cover for himself or his teammates as scum, but obviously won't use the same spin as town. It's not a very frequently-applicable tell :-(
In case it helps give you a framework for thinking about the more meta side of the game works here, consider that any given player, especially vets who've been playing such games with one another for years and years, is probably not thinking only of their win or loss in this one particular game. They've got form, there are things they've done before as scum, and things they've discussed previously with people who were their scum buddies in other games, but who might now be town while they're scum again (or vice versa!), and there are patterns of behaviour that tend to repeat. The pace of innovation in any given direction is limited by how people feel any changes in their behaviour might adversely affect their faction in this game, and also other people's perceptions of them in future games. If you're too ridiculously townie as town and can't emulate it when you're scum, your scum game suffers. If you're too unhelpful or abrasive as a player, people will more happily lynch you off even in your townier games. Players like faust are so ancient they've converged on some kind of an optimum presentation. (I (hope I can) get away with saying this, since I'm more ancient than faust is IRL, even though I'm a relative newbie in f.ds mafia terms, having only been playing mafia here for ~3 years).
PPE 6 or 7: not sure that needed an essay, but there you go :-P
This isn't the "if I were scum I wouldn't do this" defense, it was a admonition on everyone else for not addressing my lack of participation. Also, I said I "could" do X action, not I "would". Even after all this, I don't blame anyone who adds on scum points for that. That was a mistake.If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum.
Refusing to provide the town with information is the definition of scummy! What does scum have that town doesn't? Information. The towns goal is to make up for their information deficit. In addition, after the context provided by Space I retracted my vote.Reason number one. Unexplained vote.
Not scummy.QuoteReason number two. General unhelpful-ness.
Definitely not scummyQuoteFinally, I also just get a scummy vibe from him.
Not a case.
Vote: ariSeems I'm on the lynch wagon faster than last game. MiX, I now know how you felt.
And Glooble, why do you like mcmc's case on me?
Not sure it's negative utility...I believe It's crucial to corner scum D2, provided Promoter has good reads. However, it depends on the Promoter and their target's reads a tad bit too much...but remember that it can't be (easily) influenced by scum. Overall I like the idea of claiming.
Apologies: when I said lay low, I meant exploit your newness to its full extent. Multiple bandwagons are absolutely town: just look how Promoter is negative utility precisely because it limits our options to two people. Also, you've seen town!Joseph do the exact same, yet you think it means they're more likely to be scum: why? I also believe town should be able to lie sometimes, it's sometimes useful and can blow the game wide open if they do it correctly.
What are your opinions on the current setup talk, that is, Promoter claim?
If we have a mafia promoter the mafia traitor could claim promoter to signify to the mafia they exist and they know there is no town promoter.
He's also right in that scum!Promoter won't claim and instead Traitor will, there's just no reason for them to claim.
Refusing to provide the town with information is the definition of scummy! What does scum have that town doesn't? Information. The towns goal is to make up for their information deficit. In addition, after the context provided by Space I retracted my vote.
How is refusing to be helpful not scummy?
Ok. I refuse to help anyone find scum ever again. I'm town now, right? Total unhelpful-ness, of the finest variety. And here, why don't I throw out a random vote for no reason? Vote: Jothenoah
Refusing to provide the town with information is the definition of scummy! What does scum have that town doesn't? Information. The towns goal is to make up for their information deficit. In addition, after the context provided by Space I retracted my vote.
How is refusing to be helpful not scummy?
Let me turn that around for you: What does scum gain by being obviously unhelpful? Scum players want to be helpful; their helpfulness is just leading town down the wrong path. Wanton, willful unhelpfulness usually comes from town. Or Awaclus.
Second, let me disabuse you of the notion that town is a big happy family working together to solve a problem. We are a big happy family working together to solve a problem -- with a small happy family embedded in us that is working to stop the problem from being solved. If we adopt a philosophy of "everyone shares everything all the time", that helps scum, not town. Sometimes town players keep things to themselves for some period of town. It's actually the only way we can counteract the information asymmetry. Automatically giving all the information we have to town (and therefore also to scum) just furthers it.
So something just occurred to me....That is a fantastic reason. I stand corrected. Unvote
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Anyway the thing about this line is I don't think it's obvious. Remember the traitor has not had any time to talk to the other scum. Maybe it occurs to them to claim promoter, maybe it doesn't. But once mcmc says that, then it essentially becomes true. So it's strategically great for scum, but the traitor might not think to do it until mcmc suggests it. On the other hand once town is aware of the possibility the utility goes down (promoter isn't "pseudo IC" anymore.) So is mcmc scummy for pointing it out? COuld go either way. Is MiX scummy for acknowledging mcmc's logic then continuing to push for the claim? I think he is.
So something just occurred to me.
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
For the last time (or maybe just second I can't help myself) me and ari have PERFECT SYNERGY and would behave completely differently! Now I wish I got scum...
In all seriousness, joth just pointed out the non-existence of ari's case, which I think is towny (for joth) and points out...well, how ridiculous ari is. The problem is that in his scum game, he was completely different...but I need to sit down and think about my reads and I haven't done that yet so this feels okay.
What information (besides PR's, which is why I wanted to wait for a claim before lynching the people that didn't give reasons) does the town have that scum doesn't?
However I do think mix is scum.
So something just occurred to me.Hence why some of us aren't just giving them all away for free.....
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
So something just occurred to me.Hence why some of us aren't just giving them all away for free.....
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
So something just occurred to me.Hence why some of us aren't just giving them all away for free.....
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Maybe some of us are going a step further and flat out lying about our reads. YOU DON'T KNOW.
I want to get on this very full MiX wagon because I want day one to end because day one is the worst, but at the same time deep down in my heart of hearts I think MiX is town.
why do you hate day 1 anyway?
why do you hate day 1 anyway?
Day 1 is literally people talking for the sake of talking. It's important and necessary and it is possible to catch scum during it. But it's the worst. And then you have to keep re-reading it all game.
vote: mix
Isn't that...every day ever? Relying on PRs is simply not possible due to setups being balanced, you can usually only narrow down to a 1v1. Talking D1 is the same as talking D4, except in D4 you have 3 other days of talking to base your reads. I would rather say lynching (or having reads in general) is way worse D1, which I suppose makes D1 worse? Eh.
Isn't that...every day ever? Relying on PRs is simply not possible due to setups being balanced, you can usually only narrow down to a 1v1. Talking D1 is the same as talking D4, except in D4 you have 3 other days of talking to base your reads. I would rather say lynching (or having reads in general) is way worse D1, which I suppose makes D1 worse? Eh.
It's not about the PRs, it's about the flips. Once someone dies, we know that person's alignment, and their interactions on day 1 give us additional info about everyone who's still alive.
Isn't that...every day ever? Relying on PRs is simply not possible due to setups being balanced, you can usually only narrow down to a 1v1. Talking D1 is the same as talking D4, except in D4 you have 3 other days of talking to base your reads. I would rather say lynching (or having reads in general) is way worse D1, which I suppose makes D1 worse? Eh.
It's not about the PRs, it's about the flips. Once someone dies, we know that person's alignment, and their interactions on day 1 give us additional info about everyone who's still alive.
vote: mix
Because...?
vote: mix
Because...?
Reasons.
MiX doesn't look particularly scummy to me. I have no reason to vote him, yet. I have no defense of him outright, except for his marked calmness with which he sits at L-3. I probably wont be joining this wagon. Feel free to give reasons to vote MiX, if anyone thinks it would be wise.
I think ari is town. Too.... noisy? I guess is the word I want to use. Very few people can play the game the way ari is playing when they’re scum.I think ari sounds very self conscious. vote: ari
However I do think mix is scum.
vote: mix
So something just occurred to me.I mean I'm all for holding back a bit, but a Gladiator should think twice about how they came to get that honor before picking a target.
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
If we have a scum promoterHence why some of us aren't just giving them all away for free.....
I think ari is town. Too.... noisy? I guess is the word I want to use. Very few people can play the game the way ari is playing when they’re scum.I think ari sounds very self conscious. vote: ari
However I do think mix is scum.
vote: mix
I thought it was a certainty that there wasAlthough scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
I thought it was a certainty that there wasAlthough scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Man this setup just confuses me more and more....
I would've said "And there could be a traitor" otherwise. Which seems to be exactly what faust is picking up onI thought it was a certainty that there wasAlthough scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Man this setup just confuses me more and more....
Wait, you thought that there was always a traitor? I thought you were doing a hypothetical...still don't like how faust jumped here.
MiX doesn't look particularly scummy to me. I have no reason to vote him, yet. I have no defense of him outright, except for his marked calmness with which he sits at L-3. I probably wont be joining this wagon. Feel free to give reasons to vote MiX, if anyone thinks it would be wise.
My calmness is...I'm trying to muster up energy to reread and have reads. Untill then I deserve this wagon.
So Swan also hasn't talked today...so sad. Everytime I post I want to vote...I just want to vote...somewhere...but not sure where.
L-3 isn't the sort of place where you have to immediately get worked up about being lynched....MiX doesn't look particularly scummy to me. I have no reason to vote him, yet. I have no defense of him outright, except for his marked calmness with which he sits at L-3. I probably wont be joining this wagon. Feel free to give reasons to vote MiX, if anyone thinks it would be wise.
My calmness is...I'm trying to muster up energy to reread and have reads. Untill then I deserve this wagon.
So Swan also hasn't talked today...so sad. Everytime I post I want to vote...I just want to vote...somewhere...but not sure where.
I am caught up and reading along - it was one my best friends birthday and the situation has had me wrapped up. I do have some things I want to get out, they will come soon.
So something just occurred to me....That is a fantastic reason. I stand corrected. Unvote
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
It could, but having played that last game where he was scum, I don't think he needs any newb passes.I think ari is town. Too.... noisy? I guess is the word I want to use. Very few people can play the game the way ari is playing when they’re scum.I think ari sounds very self conscious. vote: ari
However I do think mix is scum.
vote: mix
That’s fair. I just thought it came off to me as frustrated newbie town
I have a strong urge to dissasociate myself with ari before we both get lynched. Does this mean I think ari's scum?So much to go through...faust isn't scummy, ari, your case isn't really a case as it is stating faust's posts...which are pretty towny. Well, faust towny, which means I have no idea what he is.
joth, what's your ari case? And Glooble, why do you like mcmc's case on me?
two posts up
Can you quote ari's scummy line?
PPE 1
So something just occurred to me....That is a fantastic reason. I stand corrected. Unvote
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Would scum!Ari be aware enough of meta already to know that backing down like this in the face of evidence is usually worth townpoints? I suspect not, because in most ways they're coming off as very newbie-ish.
I agree with Chairs's assessment that Ari is quite noisy, in they there's a lot of "town should do X" content that experienced town just knows to skip over because it's non-helpful. I also think they're self-conscious, as EFHW said, but I don't necessarily see that being too alignment-indicative given the newbieness. So I'm reading them as non-scummy for now.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
Unobservant Joseph doesn't necessarily imply he's town... I think for him it's not particularly alignment-indicative. I still don't think he's the worst person to lynch today.
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.
MiX, how do you feel about Joth so far?
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.That's not so strange for him. vote: Galzria
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.That's not so strange for him. vote: Galzria
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.
That's one way of putting it, yeah. Thanks!MiX, how do you feel about Joth so far?
He still feels anti-town, but not sure if he's scummy...I believe I'm reading everything he does as scummy, which at this point seems to be my bias more than a sign he's scum.
Did you deliberately choose to ignore my question?
Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?
So does mcmc always have bad reads? It feels uncharacteristic, but the case itself isn't the worst so I don't know if he's scum or not.When I started I was 5/0 as mafia and very bad as town, I'm a sweet talker who tunnels HARD.
What i mean to say is Mix feels ro me to be playing as though he has other people in mind and there are very few town players who think about other townies as the post off the cuff. This would insinuate that Mix has partners and feels the need to "play for his team"MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?
I haven't seen the answers and they seemed important (yes, they're all implicit defenses but I see no harm in the first question and the second one would help me understand mcmc's case better).
Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?
So does mcmc always have bad reads? It feels uncharacteristic, but the case itself isn't the worst so I don't know if he's scum or not.When I started I was 5/0 as mafia and very bad as town, I'm a sweet talker who tunnels HARD.What i mean to say is Mix feels ro me to be playing as though he has other people in mind and there are very few town players who think about other townies as the post off the cuff. This would insinuate that Mix has partners and feels the need to "play for his team"MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?
I haven't seen the answers and they seemed important (yes, they're all implicit defenses but I see no harm in the first question and the second one would help me understand mcmc's case better).
Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?
You also don’t get more company by pushing bad cases & making bad/unexplained votes.Actually, usually I do.
No I am saying most town players think about "how I feel, and what would I do in this scenario". Scum has a higher tenancy to think "whats best for my team, and how would town act in this scenario". So scum can be found when a player posts something that doesn't feel authentic to how that player should feel. Mix has played strong controversial games as town/sk (all individuals) I expect his first team game to look more like he is playing hereSo does mcmc always have bad reads? It feels uncharacteristic, but the case itself isn't the worst so I don't know if he's scum or not.When I started I was 5/0 as mafia and very bad as town, I'm a sweet talker who tunnels HARD.What i mean to say is Mix feels ro me to be playing as though he has other people in mind and there are very few town players who think about other townies as the post off the cuff. This would insinuate that Mix has partners and feels the need to "play for his team"MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?
I haven't seen the answers and they seemed important (yes, they're all implicit defenses but I see no harm in the first question and the second one would help me understand mcmc's case better).
Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?
I don't see what you mean- or at least I don't see how it applies specifically to mix's posts. I also don't know if I agree that most town players don't "think about other townies" if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that town is more likely to speak to "the group" while scum engages one-on-one? Because in my experience, it's if anything the opposite.
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.woah woah woah woah woah (drunk ama) find a game im town and havent tunneled I DARE you
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.woah woah woah woah woah (drunk ama) find a game im town and havent tunneled I DARE you
(drunk ama)
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
You also don’t get more company by pushing bad cases & making bad/unexplained votes.
Getting my posts together, but I do want to say that I both agree and disagree with Galz on the MCMC thing:ypu dont explain this this articulately as mafia you're my ic
MCMC for sure does tunnel early days... but like... changes lanes a lot too, if that makes sense? From what I have played with them they will normally find a few spots to tunnel fairly hard, not just one, but they will really really push them.
That being said, I have found they do it as both skum and town - So, IDK if there is anything to be taken from it or not.
I do not think pursuing MCMC based on this idea would be a great use of our time.
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?
Mix >>> Ari ~~~JosephQuote from: mcmcsalot link=topic=19659.msg798636#msg798636(drunk ama)
How would you order from scummiest to least scummy: MiX, ari, Joseph
interesting because you knew me as a child when my reads were bad. I think we may have a very interesting dynamic due to the fact that when I started I was a kid and looked up to you (I had a great authority figure in robz) because you were(are) older and wiser then me. YOu were gone from the forum and I am quite different since you have returned (a much better town player with similar strong reads)What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.woah woah woah woah woah (drunk ama) find a game im town and havent tunneled I DARE you
My personal experience with you is that your reads, when town, are generally above average - and that while you may find someone scummy early on, it’s over a specific point of contest - not an ongoing and building narrative that turns everything your read says against them.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
You also don’t get more company by pushing bad cases & making bad/unexplained votes.
sure you do - you just get bad company
also where are my fun DAMA people, it has been awhile
Mcmc: What’s your favorite pet scumtell or town tell?I;m confused, my favorite pet is a chicken.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
You also don’t get more company by pushing bad cases & making bad/unexplained votes.
sure you do - you just get bad company
I get the premise - except scum aren’t robots and don’t jump to join bad wagons that lack much justification or are based on a seriously faulty premise.
Can you requote it? I didn’t deliberately ignore anything, but certainly may have missed it. If you’re busy though, I’m sure I’ll be able to find it later.
Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
What i mean to say is Mix feels ro me to be playing as though he has other people in mind and there are very few town players who think about other townies as the post off the cuff. This would insinuate that Mix has partners and feels the need to "play for his team"
No I am saying most town players think about "how I feel, and what would I do in this scenario". Scum has a higher tenancy to think "whats best for my team, and how would town act in this scenario". So scum can be found when a player posts something that doesn't feel authentic to how that player should feel. Mix has played strong controversial games as town/sk (all individuals) I expect his first team game to look more like he is playing here
What’s strange for Mcmc is his tunneling. It’s uncharacteristic for him to make an unwavering D1 read that he then continues to pursue by construing every post by that player as having a scum bias/narrative.woah woah woah woah woah (drunk ama) find a game im town and havent tunneled I DARE you
Vote: gkrieg, faust is much more townier than I thought now that I ISOd him. Reads are still in a flux state but I don't want my vote on faust anymore.Faust is town, but dunno how that makes gkrieg scummy?
Why are Sundays always this slow?
Vote: gkrieg, faust is much more townier than I thought now that I ISOd him. Reads are still in a flux state but I don't want my vote on faust anymore.Faust is town, but dunno how that makes gkrieg scummy?
Why are Sundays always this slow?
To me, faust and ari seem town
Feeling less towny on MiX
And like most games I play, space seems somewhat scummy to me, but maybe just confirmation bias
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?I don't have a particular read on MiX.
MiX as to rmm52, I got killed night 1 in an 18 person multiball game so that’s not a great day to try and match to my typical play.
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?I don't have a particular read on MiX.
And like most games I play, space seems somewhat scummy to me, but maybe just confirmation bias
I agree with your thought on Space, but I think I need to ask them a question.
@Space, what do you think of the promoter claim?
Presumably up until that point, we can all vote freely, rather than only being able to vote for the gladiator (is that correct?)
He was trying to make mcmc seem scummy by spinning things in a way that people tend to go along with without realizing. I'd go back to ari as well. I think by day 2 I should be able to participate more meaningfully.MiX as to rmm52, I got killed night 1 in an 18 person multiball game so that’s not a great day to try and match to my typical play.
But I had such a big townread on you! I'll reread your past games, however. When I have time. Untill then I really liked your RMM52 performance and I was expecting more of it, not this tunnel on town no less. I guess I'll have to try harder to read you this game.@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?I don't have a particular read on MiX.
Do you think Galz is scummier than...everyone? Why is your case (Galz thinks mcmc is being uncharacteristic when he's not) indicative of scum!Galzria? Just to see what Galz's meta is, I wouldn't see this as scummy by default.
How many games have ari and mix each played on this forum? I’m on my cell
vote: space
That is one of the longest non posts I have ever seen.
He was trying to make mcmc seem scummy by spinning things in a way that people tend to go along with without realizing. I'd go back to ari as well. I think by day 2 I should be able to participate more meaningfully.
vote: spaceIt seems to me that Space was asked a question and they answered it.
That is one of the longest non posts I have ever seen.
Not convinced it was a really scummy post from Space eithervote: spaceIt seems to me that Space was asked a question and they answered it.
That is one of the longest non posts I have ever seen.
Good morning everyone!
So the thought I had on the setup is that I think the town promoter (if they exist) should just claim off the bat. It would create a pseudo-IC and give us info on the setup without actually revealing anything to scum, and it isn't a PR that we're worried about scum knowing about since it's negative utility. So unless there's something that I'm missing, there's really no downside to them claiming.
How does it create a pseudo-IC? What stops the scum-aligned promoter from claiming town promoter?
They would risk getting caught eventually if the traitor ever flips.
I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor[ to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
I don't think a traitor would claim, though; it's too easy for them to get caught.
I would say that his comments suggest that if he is scum, he's the traitor(emphasis mine)
vote: space
That is one of the longest non posts I have ever seen.
How many games have ari and mix each played on this forum? I’m on my cell
D1 pass for ari then. Almost said D1 pass for mix but that description of their behavior does not enamour me to them.
Oh and Faust makes sense.
vote: adk
Random thought: faust, do you think ADK coming up with the plan alligns with your traitor case?
Giving newbies day 1 passes is kind, but not optimal. Especially when said newbies are scummy.
Random thought: faust, do you think ADK coming up with the plan alligns with your traitor case?
I know I'm not the one you asked, but to me it seems really unlikely that a traitor pushes for the town promoter to claim and explicitly claims "not promoter". Feels like it seriously limits their options later for very little benefit.
When did he claim "not promoter"?
When did he claim "not promoter"?
Okay, turns out I misremembered. It was ari who followed you in claiming "not promoter". For some reason I thought it was ADK. I should have checked.
Giving newbies day 1 passes is kind, but not optimal. Especially when said newbies are scummy.
What did ari do that's scummy? Say he's scum? Seems weak, given that you have a great example of a scum!ari. Also, he somewhat dug his own grave D2 last time, so I suggest we let him slide untill then, at least.
Who else would you vote?
vote: space
That is one of the longest non posts I have ever seen.
How would you have answered MiX's question, if your actual thoughts were in line with the answer I posted?
vote: MiX if the space matters
Random thought: faust, do you think ADK coming up with the plan alligns with your traitor case?I mean, I think the most likely thing is that he thought it was a good idea independently, and then because he knows it is of no consequence to the game (there is no town Promoter) he tried to generate some activity from it.
That’s a very difficult thought exercise. Essentially you said lots had been already discussed about the promoter claim (which is irrelevant and serves to excuse your lack of thoughts on it)
you said you don’t like the idea of plans where townies should do something purely because it’s “towny”, which is another word for pro town. I disagree with your opinion there and think you basically said you don’t like plans because they are difficult to pull off and you don’t like directing players. It’s a fine opinion to have but you took a really long way to say it.
I think it’s a scummy post because you could have said. “I don’t have many thoughts about the promoter claim, I don’t want to discuss it much more, and I don’t like town directing plans as a whole.” But that would have sounded really scummy so you added a lot of fluff and overexplaination of your thoughts.
Note that my post that mcmc thinks is so scummy did another useful pro-town thing: it boosted the signal on faust's comment about the possibility of a quick-lynch before the Gladiator deadline kicks in, and obtained clear mod confirmation that it's a viable plan, which avoids uncertainty during the critical window at the start of D2.
I did also say that I don't think we should do any pre-planning around that till D2, but the idea itself was already accessible to scum, so it's not like I hurt our chances there. Furthermore, if it's being discussed at this level, a scum Gladiator has less excuse to say "oops, it didn't occur to me that we should hold out till deadline" if they come into the thread naming a second player. Same goes for avoiding a derp!town move.
Basically, I think it's pro-town to point out to whomever the gladiator is that it's a good idea to hold off and let town have some rapid start-of-D2 discussion before naming anyone else to the 1-v-1.
When did he claim "not promoter"?
Okay, turns out I misremembered. It was ari who followed you in claiming "not promoter". For some reason I thought it was ADK. I should have checked.
Vote: Glooble because I'm currently reading M115, Galz was scum and I don't recall the same behavior here. Also, that game has a lot of players here, would reccomend for people that don't know everyone's meta (I know ari'll need it).
Treat the above vote as FoS + Unvote, I need to reread Glooble too...so much effort!
When did he claim "not promoter"?
Okay, turns out I misremembered. It was ari who followed you in claiming "not promoter". For some reason I thought it was ADK. I should have checked.
Vote: Glooble because I'm currently reading M115, Galz was scum and I don't recall the same behavior here. Also, that game has a lot of players here, would reccomend for people that don't know everyone's meta (I know ari'll need it).
Treat the above vote as FoS + Unvote, I need to reread Glooble too...so much effort!
This post reads flailing scum to me. Could be flailing town, but definitely could be flailing scum. Plus, I was staying off the MiX wagon because it felt scummy how quickly it was building. But now it feels scummy how much it's stalled out.
I have a lot of predictions but no reads...
Unvote. I'll have to try harder, haven't put much effort into this yet.
First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
My thoughts on promoter versus Vig: Vig is an extra kill. Promoter is limiting the kill we are already entitled to. Vig>Promoter. I'm torn on whether the promoter should claim though. I feel like it's negative utility, so scum wouldn't want to kill, so scum will be able to kill our other power roles, but if the promoter plays smart they can influence the game for the better (assuming we got the town promoter). I think it's safer to just not claim. That way maf can accidentally kill promoter instead of another pr.
Also, Jothenoah and Faust: I'm really REALLY not a fan of unexplained votes. Explanation provides more information to the town, which is always good. Barring being a PR or something. I'd recommend one of them for the day 2 lynch if promoter doesn't throw a wrench in that and they don't claim some PR.
My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
In conclusion to this opening paragraph, everybody ask me hard questions! I want to answer them and prove I'm town!Correct. And I was obviously scum. Ergo, my strategy revealed the scum. Therefore, it is pro town. I'll probably have to come up with a better strategy for when I'm scum... But hey, i don't need to worry about that this game!To be frank, you did the same things in the game you quoted.As far as players go I wish I knew arishape better because I feel like if I did I would know their alignment already. They seem to be playing relatively straightforward and not a lot of pre-thought to their posts.I have one game to my name.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.0
In this game, I was scum. Feel free to read it over. Anyways, you are absolutely correct in my straightforwardness. I try not to mask, deceive, or be unclear in any way, shape, or form, so as to leave no room for any misinterpretation, which is a scum's friend....Why do you think this?I think MiX is scum pushing for traitor to claim. Mild suspicionvote: MiXIs voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
First off: Super sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday night like I said I would. My computer kept restarting in the middle of me constructing my posts, and I got tired, so I went to bed. I'm here now. But I'm kinda miffed at the lack of suspicion on me. If I were scum I imagine I could just keep shutting up, occasionally doing short posts to keep the "lynch all lurkers" crowd at bay. Lucky for you guys I'm not scum. Time for me to join the fray!
is the scummiest thing I've ever read. And then there's this:My thoughts on voting: Why are we voting MiX? Sure, he's not the towniest town to ever town, but I don't see to much scumminess. Anyone wanna explain?
Followed immediately by Mix jumping to ari's defense for my one vote? Guys, get better at being partners.
Hey, we are REALLY good at being partners, okay? If it were us you would see a lot more direct intetaction (I actually planned a little bit if I got scum with ari only since we would both be newbies)....Hard to read? I'm insulted. I'll try to cut down on the excess verbiage, if that's what everyone thinks though.
"Jokes" aside: what makes that first part scummy? For me it says "Hello my name is arishipshape and I love to make long hard to read posts about everything" which doesn't seem alignment indicative.
PPE 1: I truly am trying to make Traitor claim.
Allow me to rephrase. Anyone on the MiX wagon, care to explain why MiX trying to make traitor claim makes MiX scum?
Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.
For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.
Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.
My case against Faust:
Reason number one. Unexplained vote.Vote: ADKEven after repeated pressure from me and ADK, Faust has refused to provide justification for this vote. I've repeatedly stated why this is super anti town, I don't want to sound like a broken record. If anyone needs to know why this is scummy, ask. Or re-read me.
Reason number two. General unhelpful-ness. Here are some of the choicest Faust quotes of this game.Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.I sure hope we're in one of the scenarios that have only 1 scum!I think he's a bit towny.
The above quote is unhelpful for providing no reasons, although making a town read is usually helpful.Can you guys just move on already?
Faust seems to be gravitating towards one liners that don't actually say anything, and not contributing nearly enough. However, he has done the occasional helpful post. I just don't believe these outdo his lack of helpfulness. Useful quotes include:Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.Let's just say if gkrieg were the Traitor, we'd already know...Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.
This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.
Seriously, gkrieg tends to have pretty good reads as town but for some reason people read him scummy and he gets mislynched frequently. As scum he's much easier to detect IRL. chairs is like always kind of excited when he starts playing, and then something terrible happens in his life and he can't participate. He's also very much a gut feeling kind of player. joth I feel I haven't really played with enough yet. Galzria's current meta is unfortunately that he lurks until he is replaced.
Finally, I also just get a scummy vibe from him. I try to ignore feelings most of the time, but I find in mafia they sometimes serve a purpose. Feel free to argue. Vote:Faust
Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.
For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.
Has faust been doing this kind of thing a lot lately? I don't remember seeing this coyness from him before.
I mean, "definitely town" is strong; faust could be scum, as could anyone. But so far he's reading pretty townie.
I really don't like Ari's faust case, but I don't think it's malicious/scummy per se, just a bit of an indication that they're a newbie with little feel for people's meta, or the overall meta of f.ds mafia.
@Ari, hi! I don't think we've played before. Apologies for starting out our interaction with a criticism, but coming into a game with a blunt assertion that it's anti-town not to share everything, while obviously being unaware of the long history of this having been discussed in numerous games before, is a bit naive, and really isn't going to win over many of the vets. Faust is a seasoned player who knows what he's doing. He comes across as weirdly cantankerous sometimes, and economical with his words, but that's not alignment indicative. The only reliable tell I found for him being scum is that if you get into a situation where there's complex logical reasoning, he can sometime spin it the wrong way to cover for himself or his teammates as scum, but obviously won't use the same spin as town. It's not a very frequently-applicable tell :-(
In case it helps give you a framework for thinking about the more meta side of the game works here, consider that any given player, especially vets who've been playing such games with one another for years and years, is probably not thinking only of their win or loss in this one particular game. They've got form, there are things they've done before as scum, and things they've discussed previously with people who were their scum buddies in other games, but who might now be town while they're scum again (or vice versa!), and there are patterns of behaviour that tend to repeat. The pace of innovation in any given direction is limited by how people feel any changes in their behaviour might adversely affect their faction in this game, and also other people's perceptions of them in future games. If you're too ridiculously townie as town and can't emulate it when you're scum, your scum game suffers. If you're too unhelpful or abrasive as a player, people will more happily lynch you off even in your townier games. Players like faust are so ancient they've converged on some kind of an optimum presentation. (I (hope I can) get away with saying this, since I'm more ancient than faust is IRL, even though I'm a relative newbie in f.ds mafia terms, having only been playing mafia here for ~3 years).
PPE 6 or 7: not sure that needed an essay, but there you go :-P
Vote: ari
Perfectly timed bus. Well-done.
Ok. I refuse to help anyone find scum ever again. I'm town now, right? Total unhelpful-ness, of the finest variety. And here, why don't I throw out a random vote for no reason? Vote: Jothenoah
Refusing to provide the town with information is the definition of scummy! What does scum have that town doesn't? Information. The towns goal is to make up for their information deficit. In addition, after the context provided by Space I retracted my vote.
How is refusing to be helpful not scummy?
Let me turn that around for you: What does scum gain by being obviously unhelpful? Scum players want to be helpful; their helpfulness is just leading town down the wrong path. Wanton, willful unhelpfulness usually comes from town. Or Awaclus.
Second, let me disabuse you of the notion that town is a big happy family working together to solve a problem. We are a big happy family working together to solve a problem -- with a small happy family embedded in us that is working to stop the problem from being solved. If we adopt a philosophy of "everyone shares everything all the time", that helps scum, not town. Sometimes town players keep things to themselves for some period of town. It's actually the only way we can counteract the information asymmetry. Automatically giving all the information we have to town (and therefore also to scum) just furthers it.
What information (besides PR's, which is why I wanted to wait for a claim before lynching the people that didn't give reasons) does the town have that scum doesn't?
However I do think mix is scum.
Nah, I'm just incredibly lazy and I'm pushing a (well, I guess it is) anti-town plan. Which IS scummy, but...would scum do that? No idea.
A lot of people are being towny right now...I think I might stick to the basics.
Vote: gkrieg, did he dissapear? Sure seemed like it.
So something just occurred to me.
If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.
Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
So does mcmc always have bad reads? It feels uncharacteristic, but the case itself isn't the worst so I don't know if he's scum or not.
On the other hand, gkrieg hasn't done much other than vote for me, and faust just moved his vote to Joseph for something that makes perfect sense in context...faust, do you have any other reason to vote there? Otherwise I think these are my scumreads...problem is these are all highly competent players that I don't want to lynch D1...
Haven't actually finished sorting reads (I'm ISOing everyone and that actually takes a while), but I wanted to ask these questions before I continue:Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.
What's your thought on Joseph here?
AndMiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.
What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?
I haven't seen the answers and they seemed important (yes, they're all implicit defenses but I see no harm in the first question and the second one would help me understand mcmc's case better).
Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?
Mcmc: What’s your favorite pet scumtell or town tell?I;m confused, my favorite pet is a chicken.
My scum tell's are all pretty player based (hence my ari read apprehension) but I would say acting as though you have though your post through more then town would is my favorite scum tell.
My favorite town tell is playing with so much passion that your emotion comes through. it has been faked only a few times back in the day by galz himself and ash/yuma
Vote: gkrieg, faust is much more townier than I thought now that I ISOd him. Reads are still in a flux state but I don't want my vote on faust anymore.Faust is town, but dunno how that makes gkrieg scummy?
Why are Sundays always this slow?
gkrieg's just not towny, which is more than I can say about almost everyone here...I also don't want to vote for mcmc, feels OMGUSy, and maybe he does play like this (although I didn't see it in RMM52).To me, faust and ari seem town
Feeling less towny on MiX
And like most games I play, space seems somewhat scummy to me, but maybe just confirmation bias
I agree with your thought on Space, but I think I need to ask them a question.
@Space, what do you think of the promoter claim?
If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.
Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.
Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.
There are times when it is good to lie as town.
Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.
For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.
Has faust been doing this kind of thing a lot lately? I don't remember seeing this coyness from him before.
He came across as a bit crotchety at times (as town) last game I played with him. I usually find his mafia persona more prickly than he is in person, though.
Current town reads are:
faust, Space, Joseph, chairs, EFHW (because I don't scumread her, and for some reason know 100% when she is scum).
Everyone else I either don't have a read on, or have a scumread on...
Strongest scum reads are MiX, Ari, ADK (for faust's case)
Lies of omission are more commonly a good idea, since keeping information from scum is beneficial. Like, in RMM52, having a role unnecessarily revealed by a townie late in the game was part of what meant town couldn't win, because scum knew exactly who they could safely kill, so town lost the slim chance of winning because scum might otherwise have targeted a commuter.
Current town reads are:
faust, Space, Joseph, chairs, EFHW (because I don't scumread her, and for some reason know 100% when she is scum).
Everyone else I either don't have a read on, or have a scumread on...
Strongest scum reads are MiX, Ari, ADK (for faust's case)
I like these reads. I endorse them.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
How can you know whether or not someone if bussing if you don't know who their partners are?
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.
Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.
Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.
The only pro-town thing I've done is scumhunting? I see your point, I must be scum.
Just because my cases aren't walls of text doesn't mean they aren't there, valid, and sufficiently well-articulated.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.
Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.
The only pro-town thing I've done is scumhunting? I see your point, I must be scum.
Just because my cases aren't walls of text doesn't mean they aren't there, valid, and sufficiently well-articulated.
Mostly that you have barely mentioned...anyone else. That and I find ari towny (and previously found ADK towny as well, but that's mostly for agreeing with his position regarding promoter claim). Did your scumreads ever change?
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.
But it's a problem that didn't need to be caused.I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.
Why are you setting this possibility aside? You could be wrong and your wagon might not go anywhere, so why do you think this is rare?
Okay, I do this every game, so I suppose I need to keep up the tradition: helps me as every alignment so it can't go wrong. I know that we don't want to give too much information to scum, so I'll keep it succint.
arishipshape: I'm not lynching him.
DatSwan: No one is lynching him.
chairs: Consistent. That's all I can say about him. No one is lynching him.
joth: Jokes a lot, focused a bunch of me, ari and ADK. Does almost nothing other than interact with us three. Scum.
MiX: Town. Seriously discourage this lynch, better people to focus.
ADK: Talks a lot about promoter given he's the one that brought it up. faust's case makes sense but I don't think traitor would do that: I would suspect scum would give traitor a way to claim, this way there would be communication (for all scum know ADK's not traitor, maybe someone else signaled better, who knows, I've never played with traitor). My previous townread on him is failing, not sure where he's positioned in my reads anymore. Would lynch.
gkrieg: No one is lynching him.
mcmc: I have no idea. "Not town!mcmc" is probably how I would describe him. His logic seems to make sense sometimes so not exactly my favourite here. Would lynch.
Glooble: Town. Oops. Unvote, sorry about that. I still think voting there was justified, but I clearly needed to re-reread Glooble to get a better read.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
faust: No one is lynching him.
Joseph: Different. I need to reread the game I played with him to see just how different. I'm not lynching him.
Space: Town, as I've said.
EFHW: No one is lynching her.
Overall, I think mcmc, ADK or joth are the scummiest bunch from the people I actually want to lynch today. Of those;
Vote: joth, almost no content, a lot of it is focused on players he doesn't know, too many jokes for my taste, all in all does not seem to be helping town. Maybe I just can't read him, but he still looks like the scummiest of them all. I'll try to make a case on him just to rectify if he's this scummy or not.
PPE all the way from gkrieg's infinity posts, including mine.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.
Why are you setting this possibility aside? You could be wrong and your wagon might not go anywhere, so why do you think this is rare?
The worst scum can do if they have a promoter is target one of us. Then it’s up to us to decide if we want to call out each other. The very fact that we’ve had this conversation makes me less likely to target MiX in that scenario. So there’s a lot of layers of WIFOM. I honestly don’t think it’s a big deal.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
How can you know whether or not someone if bussing if you don't know who their partners are?
Ok some thoughts:
faust's case on me is pretty threadbare, I was discussing the setup in the game where there could be a traitor so I mentioned the traitor a few times. I don't think faust is scummy for pushing that case, it's day one, cases are going to be pretty threadbare. I do find chairs scummy for jumping on it. I also find gkrieg scummy for sheeping it, especially since he does it at the end of his string of posts where he's listing his reads and it's tacked on at the end, it reads to me like he was writing a reads list and was like "hmm, better include another scum read there"
mcmc is probably my strongest townread this game
I had a lingering scumread on joth but his more recent posts on reading much townier to me. I don't think I want to lynch joth today.
Joseph is another player I'm finding towny, which is surprising to me because from what I remember he's the sort of player that almost always comes off as scummy
MiX is coming off scummier and scummier. A lot of his posting seems very self-aware, there's a post back there where he outrights says he doesn't want to vote for mcmc because it "seems OMGUS-y". My original vote on MiX was based on some partner-y interaction bullshit that looking back on I realize didn't make sense but I'm happy with my vote there now.
MiX is coming off scummier and scummier. A lot of his posting seems very self-aware, there's a post back there where he outrights says he doesn't want to vote for mcmc because it "seems OMGUS-y". My original vote on MiX was based on some partner-y interaction bullshit that looking back on I realize didn't make sense but I'm happy with my vote there now.
MiX feels pretty much the same as he did in the only other game I played: he was town. However, I was scum that game, so coulda been biased because I totally knew what he was. But still. I'm not getting on the MiX wagon.
Vote: ADK
Mf. This wagon look ugly.
Vote: Joseph
I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.
I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.Usually it's an 11 and a half hour lynch
I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.
How much time do we have?
Is this correct? The vote count says end is 5:30 forum time, but does not specify am or pm.I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.
How much time do we have?
About 32 1/2 hours.
I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.The MiX wagon clearly has stalled out, can I interest you in voting for Joseph?
Is this correct? The vote count says end is 5:30 forum time, but does not specify am or pm.I would love to avoid an 11th hour lynch.
How much time do we have?
About 32 1/2 hours.
If, as I assume, LaLight goes by European standard, then it's indeed 5:30 am, so less than 24 hours.
MiX is coming off scummier and scummier. A lot of his posting seems very self-aware, there's a post back there where he outrights says he doesn't want to vote for mcmc because it "seems OMGUS-y". My original vote on MiX was based on some partner-y interaction bullshit that looking back on I realize didn't make sense but I'm happy with my vote there now.
What do you mean by self-aware here? Yes, I know how my posts sound to everyone else, since you tell me your opinions on them, so I can infer what future posts will look like. What was your original reason to vote me?
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.What about Joseph?
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.What about Joseph?
Having no vote around this close to deadline isn't really helping.MiX is coming off scummier and scummier. A lot of his posting seems very self-aware, there's a post back there where he outrights says he doesn't want to vote for mcmc because it "seems OMGUS-y". My original vote on MiX was based on some partner-y interaction bullshit that looking back on I realize didn't make sense but I'm happy with my vote there now.
What do you mean by self-aware here? Yes, I know how my posts sound to everyone else, since you tell me your opinions on them, so I can infer what future posts will look like. What was your original reason to vote me?
My original vote was based on interactions with you and joth, that I thought looked partnery, which looking back on it, they weren't. And now looking back at it now, I think I was reading too much into a couple of comments you made. So, meh.
Unvote
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.
What makes you think an ari lynch is better than an ADK lynch? Also, ewwww on ari votes, unless he completely revolutionizes his scum meta we'll get him by D3, don't worry.
Having no vote around this close to deadline isn't really helping.MiX is coming off scummier and scummier. A lot of his posting seems very self-aware, there's a post back there where he outrights says he doesn't want to vote for mcmc because it "seems OMGUS-y". My original vote on MiX was based on some partner-y interaction bullshit that looking back on I realize didn't make sense but I'm happy with my vote there now.
What do you mean by self-aware here? Yes, I know how my posts sound to everyone else, since you tell me your opinions on them, so I can infer what future posts will look like. What was your original reason to vote me?
My original vote was based on interactions with you and joth, that I thought looked partnery, which looking back on it, they weren't. And now looking back at it now, I think I was reading too much into a couple of comments you made. So, meh.
Unvote
For the record, I don't think that Joseph is a great lunch
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.
What makes you think an ari lynch is better than an ADK lynch? Also, ewwww on ari votes, unless he completely revolutionizes his scum meta we'll get him by D3, don't worry.
Because I think ari is more likely to be scum than ADK? I don't understand the question.
My scumread is Faust. But I tried gunning against him, and look how that worked out. Everybody saying "Your case sucks" and with no reasons why (except SpaceAnemone, who addressed my dislike of meta rather than the case itself). So I did run out of things to do. I can't attack my scumread, I can't defend my townread. I'm gonna iso ADK and see whether I like lynching him. And I'll be here till about 5 hours to deadline, if it's 5:30 AM.MiX feels pretty much the same as he did in the only other game I played: he was town. However, I was scum that game, so coulda been biased because I totally knew what he was. But still. I'm not getting on the MiX wagon.
Your last post was also a defense of me; I get it, it won a game for you, but instead of defending me you should find a scumread and push it. You haven't done much with your vote, seems like you ran out of things to do.
For the record, I don't think that Joseph is a great lunch
I fear that you or me die this day: if you had to, who would you vote? Quoting this because Joseph seems to be a viable lynch as well.
My scumread is Faust. But I tried gunning against him, and look how that worked out. Everybody saying "Your case sucks" and with no reasons why (except SpaceAnemone, who addressed my dislike of meta rather than the case itself). So I did run out of things to do. I can't attack my scumread, I can't defend my townread. I'm gonna iso ADK and see whether I like lynching him. And I'll be here till about 5 hours to deadline, if it's 5:30 AM.MiX feels pretty much the same as he did in the only other game I played: he was town. However, I was scum that game, so coulda been biased because I totally knew what he was. But still. I'm not getting on the MiX wagon.
Your last post was also a defense of me; I get it, it won a game for you, but instead of defending me you should find a scumread and push it. You haven't done much with your vote, seems like you ran out of things to do.
For the record, I don't think that Joseph is a great lunch
I fear that you or me die this day: if you had to, who would you vote? Quoting this because Joseph seems to be a viable lynch as well.
Are you asking who I would vote between you and me? You, obviously, but I don't think we should get in the mindset of lynching in a subset of players. Anything's possible with a plurality lynch.
I think dissolving the MiX wagon is a mistake, for the record, but I'm also fine with vote: ari and I like it a lot better than ADK.
What makes you think an ari lynch is better than an ADK lynch? Also, ewwww on ari votes, unless he completely revolutionizes his scum meta we'll get him by D3, don't worry.
Because I think ari is more likely to be scum than ADK? I don't understand the question.
Well why is this the case? I've heard your ari case but why is ADK less scummy?
Get. More. Scum. Reads. Please? You did last time (in a very fake way, really) so I know you can do the same.
Jothenoah has arbitrarily hated me all game. Did an iso, not liking it to much. I wont get more specific, because obviously that would help scum.My scumread is Faust. But I tried gunning against him, and look how that worked out. Everybody saying "Your case sucks" and with no reasons why (except SpaceAnemone, who addressed my dislike of meta rather than the case itself). So I did run out of things to do. I can't attack my scumread, I can't defend my townread. I'm gonna iso ADK and see whether I like lynching him. And I'll be here till about 5 hours to deadline, if it's 5:30 AM.MiX feels pretty much the same as he did in the only other game I played: he was town. However, I was scum that game, so coulda been biased because I totally knew what he was. But still. I'm not getting on the MiX wagon.
Your last post was also a defense of me; I get it, it won a game for you, but instead of defending me you should find a scumread and push it. You haven't done much with your vote, seems like you ran out of things to do.
Get. More. Scum. Reads. Please? You did last time (in a very fake way, really) so I know you can do the same.
Get. More. Scum. Reads. Please? You did last time (in a very fake way, really) so I know you can do the same.
Wait what? Making up fake scum reads as scum and coming up with actual scum reads as town are completely different skill sets. How does his ability to do one tell you anything about his ability to do the other?
Iso'd ADK, he kept me accountable on many of my worse points, and forced me to answer a question I missed. He also seems generally townie IMHO. Here's another wagon I'm not getting on, without a good case or something. Faust, order these from most to least scummy: Me, MiX, ADK, Joseph. And before anyone says "But Ari, you said Faust was your scumread!" I KNOW. Faust still is.Jothenoah has arbitrarily hated me all game. Did an iso, not liking it to much. I wont get more specific, because obviously that would help scum.My scumread is Faust. But I tried gunning against him, and look how that worked out. Everybody saying "Your case sucks" and with no reasons why (except SpaceAnemone, who addressed my dislike of meta rather than the case itself). So I did run out of things to do. I can't attack my scumread, I can't defend my townread. I'm gonna iso ADK and see whether I like lynching him. And I'll be here till about 5 hours to deadline, if it's 5:30 AM.MiX feels pretty much the same as he did in the only other game I played: he was town. However, I was scum that game, so coulda been biased because I totally knew what he was. But still. I'm not getting on the MiX wagon.
Your last post was also a defense of me; I get it, it won a game for you, but instead of defending me you should find a scumread and push it. You haven't done much with your vote, seems like you ran out of things to do.
Get. More. Scum. Reads. Please? You did last time (in a very fake way, really) so I know you can do the same.
Get. More. Scum. Reads. Please? You did last time (in a very fake way, really) so I know you can do the same.
Wait what? Making up fake scum reads as scum and coming up with actual scum reads as town are completely different skill sets. How does his ability to do one tell you anything about his ability to do the other?
It's a pretty bad joke, but I'm still proud of it. The point was that ari's been through been asked to have more scumreads by me.
Who's a player that hasn't been talked about at all today? I want to lynch them.
1. It's not arbitrary
2. I don't hate you
Apologies. "Hate" was an unnecessarily strong word, and it didn't apply. I think you're fine and nice as well. What I meant to say was you've been arbitrarily considering me to be scum all game. Vote: Chairs Why? I know why: I'm just not gonna say it. ...Fine, it's because we haven't talked about him all game and I want to spark discussion.1. It's not arbitrary
2. I don't hate you
I want to emphasize #2 here because I know I can be a little harsh sometimes in-game, but at the end of the day it is just a game and as a human being I like you just fine and think you're very nice.
Apologies. "Hate" was an unnecessarily strong word, and it didn't apply. I think you're fine and nice as well. What I meant to say was you've been arbitrarily considering me to be scum all game. Vote: Chairs Why? I know why: I'm just not gonna say it. ...Fine, it's because we haven't talked about him all game and I want to spark discussion.1. It's not arbitrary
2. I don't hate you
I want to emphasize #2 here because I know I can be a little harsh sometimes in-game, but at the end of the day it is just a game and as a human being I like you just fine and think you're very nice.
We haven't touched Faust. Everybody just takes his towniness as guaranteed. And I disagree regarding discussion: we've got a day, I think we can at least make something we can look back on in later days, even if we don't lynch chairs today.Apologies. "Hate" was an unnecessarily strong word, and it didn't apply. I think you're fine and nice as well. What I meant to say was you've been arbitrarily considering me to be scum all game. Vote: Chairs Why? I know why: I'm just not gonna say it. ...Fine, it's because we haven't talked about him all game and I want to spark discussion.1. It's not arbitrary
2. I don't hate you
I want to emphasize #2 here because I know I can be a little harsh sometimes in-game, but at the end of the day it is just a game and as a human being I like you just fine and think you're very nice.
There won't be a discussion this close to deadline. My thought was: why is everyone on the viable lynch pool very towny and/or joth? And I feel like the answer is there's scum in whoever we haven't even touched yet.
I don't want to lynch chairs. They've made 9 posts. None of them seemed scummy to me. Not enough interaction to really tell us anything tomorrow. MiX is a better lynch.Plus we always seem to end up lynching lurkers and it's no help
I don't want to lynch chairs. They've made 9 posts. None of them seemed scummy to me. Not enough interaction to really tell us anything tomorrow. MiX is a better lynch.Plus we always seem to end up lynching lurkers and it's no help
And we always seem to end up mislynching chairs as a lurker
Sarcasm mode: OnI don't want to lynch chairs. They've made 9 posts. None of them seemed scummy to me. Not enough interaction to really tell us anything tomorrow. MiX is a better lynch.Plus we always seem to end up lynching lurkers and it's no help
And we always seem to end up mislynching chairs as a lurker
I would rather lynch Swan or EFHW, those 3 seem to be the worst offenders on "who hasn't been talked about"?
Unofficial vote count
MiX (2): gkrieg13, Glooble
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
arishipshape (2): chairs, jotheonah
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1):: arishipshape
Not voting (2): Galzria, ADK
I really really don't like the direction this conversation has taken. Let's take a stand and maybe be wrong rather than do a random last-minute lynch with no case. Especially especially since this idea is coming from my top scum candidates and the leading wagons.
We can do the tried-and-not-tested joth lynch, if you want. Sad part is I think you're not good lynch material. Maybe you are?Things like this are making you seem summer to me
Like seriously, we had a good thing going, I don't know why everybody up and moved their votes.
Big takeaways for today - promoter claim is probably dumb, mix and ari are both scummy af, I need to post more so you can read me better.
We can do the tried-and-not-tested joth lynch, if you want. Sad part is I think you're not good lynch material. Maybe you are?Things like this are making you seem summer to me
Vote: mix
PPE: 3
vote: MiX
That's L3.
I should’ve clarified - claiming promoter this close to deadline is probably dumb unless you’re about to be lynched.
Tbh I am pretty flexible here as long as we get behind a lynch. I really want to see a majority lynch rather than plurality because it means more imo
Tbh I am pretty flexible here as long as we get behind a lynch. I really want to see a majority lynch rather than plurality because it means more imoAgreed
Unofficial vote count
MiX (2): gkrieg13, Glooble
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
arishipshape (2): chairs, jotheonah
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1):: arishipshape
Not voting (2): Galzria, ADK
I really really don't like the direction this conversation has taken. Let's take a stand and maybe be wrong rather than do a random last-minute lynch with no case. Especially especially since this idea is coming from my top scum candidates and the leading wagons.
Jk, that is why you should read the whole thread before voting.
vote: MiX
Should I claim?
Should I claim?
I probably would.
Should I claim?
I probably would.
Why would you? I would like to hear arguments, not just "yeah why not?". A priori I don't think it's a good decision, so if you think it is I would prefer to know why.
Okay Mix has had 10 different people vote for him this game.
Faust - RVS
Ari - RVS
Mcmc - Pushing for the promoter claim in a why I thought to be directing the traitor
Galz - sheep me
Gkrieg - didn’t like mix’s vote for joth
Glooble - sheep’s me but only likes the case slightly more than the ask case.
Chairs - says they do t think ari is scum and votes mix (presumably a “most viable case” vote)
ADK - unexplained (he later disagrees with me on one of my points against MiX)
Joth - for mix poorly defending ari
Chairs returns
Joseph - doesn’t like mix’s defense
Joth returns
Gkrieg returns.
ADK has had six different players vote for them.I had my own reasons too
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
Mix, you've already soft claimed a PR by asking the claiming question. Which puts you at risk of being NKed anyway. So IMO you should claim. Although that vote list on you is super weird, because it's almost everyone
ADK has had six different players vote for them.
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
Mix, you've already soft claimed a PR by asking the claiming question. Which puts you at risk of being NKed anyway. So IMO you should claim. Although that vote list on you is super weird, because it's almost everyone
Awkward. I am a VT, so I'm confused where you saw that. It was my plan to softclaim a PR, which worked (apparently), but...I didn't really carry out the plan. Maybe subconsciously I played like a PR? If so good job me!ADK has had six different players vote for them.
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
I was sheeping faust. And defending myself, of course.
Mix, you've already soft claimed a PR by asking the claiming question. Which puts you at risk of being NKed anyway. So IMO you should claim. Although that vote list on you is super weird, because it's almost everyone
Awkward. I am a VT, so I'm confused where you saw that. It was my plan to softclaim a PR, which worked (apparently), but...I didn't really carry out the plan. Maybe subconsciously I played like a PR? If so good job me!
You 100% should not have claimed especially not vt. Think this only benefits scum and is very
Unlikely to change whether or not you are lynched
vote: ari. Better lynch than MiX.
vote: ari. Better lynch than MiX.
Why?
vote: ari. Better lynch than MiX.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.
Mix, you've already soft claimed a PR by asking the claiming question. Which puts you at risk of being NKed anyway. So IMO you should claim. Although that vote list on you is super weird, because it's almost everyone
Awkward. I am a VT, so I'm confused where you saw that. It was my plan to softclaim a PR, which worked (apparently), but...I didn't really carry out the plan. Maybe subconsciously I played like a PR? If so good job me!
You 100% should not have claimed especially not vt. Think this only benefits scum and is very
Unlikely to change whether or not you are lynched
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.
Especially because he asked, asked me to clarify, didn't wait for anyone else's advice, and then completely disregarded my advice.
Wow I’m really happy with my mix vote now because I know when I was caught scum D1 in Harry Potter mafia I reacted the same way he just did
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
Not sure if this is a complement or an insult... No, really, I mean it. Thanks regardless.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
Not sure if this is a complement or an insult... No, really, I mean it. Thanks regardless.
It wasn't strictly meant as a rhetorical question, you know. If you think it's part of a larger body of evidence of you having modulated your behaviour due to feedback last game, there's time to point that out.
OTOH, I agree that the defeatist behaviour, coupled with being worried about your personal death instead of worrying about how to make town play better is not all that townie.
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.
How strongly do you feel this way?
ADK has had six different players vote for them.So most of these cases are promoter or traitor talk
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.
How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!
In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.
How strongly do you feel this way?
I assume you're asking how strongly I feel that MIX's question is a possible indicator that he's mafia. I'm uncertain, because it could be that he's genuinely trying to modulate his behaviour given how badly his playstyle went across last game, or it could be anomalous play.
I've been hesitant to vote him because I'm aware his style attracts votes in a way that's not linked to alignment, and also because I genuinely think that even if he's scum, he might contribute town-useful stuff in the later game, because his later-game inferences were good in the game where he was an SK.
I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?
I think it's scummier than anything ari has done, so Vote: ADK
I'm sleeping now, will be back in ~8 hours
I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?
I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?
I played in that game (only started co-modding after I died.) Iirc I thought he was scum, and I was right.
I don’t understand this mentality of hopping off a wagon every time we’re close to a consensus because it was “too easy”. Sure that might mean there’s scum on the wagon. It might also mean a player is acting scummy because they are scum.
I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?
I played in that game (only started co-modding after I died.) Iirc I thought he was scum, and I was right.
I don’t understand this mentality of hopping off a wagon every time we’re close to a consensus because it was “too easy”. Sure that might mean there’s scum on the wagon. It might also mean a player is acting scummy because they are scum.
Do you think ari ADK and joth are towny? Would you ever move your vote to them?
Galz gkrieg joth and chairs are the people that haven't played with me.
hot take: the adk wagon is scummy and the people on it are scummy.
adk's reticence to join the MiX wagon to save himself is commendable and towny.
galz could well be scum. but he's not a better lynch than MiX for myriad reasons.
hot take: the adk wagon is scummy and the people on it are scummy.
adk's reticence to join the MiX wagon to save himself is commendable and towny.
galz could well be scum. but he's not a better lynch than MiX for myriad reasons.
Do you earnestly think that MiX is scum at this point?
On that note vote: joth
I really don't think MiX is scum. I'm voting Galzria, but ADK's vote for him looks scummy to me.
vote: ADK. I'll also ISO him now.
I really don't think MiX is scum. I'm voting Galzria, but ADK's vote for him looks scummy to me.
vote: ADK. I'll also ISO him now.
In starting the ISO, I just noticed the they/them pronoun, sorry ADK.
I do not understand what's happening here. Why is MiX suddenly town??
I'll be available for the next three hours, then I'll be going to bed. Anyone want to ask me anything before MiX flips town?
Also, Chairs' saying "oh no, MiX was town after all" sounds suspiciously similar to my "oh no, MiX was town after all" at the end of day one in the last game I played. Significantly shorter and with less emotion, but similar. And I was scum that time.
- If MiX was skum, pushing the promoter claim, I strongly believe they would of claimed town promoter here (if they were going to claim anything).
I wish MiX wasn't the default lynch right now. I just don't think he is scum. Despite my earlier comment, I really don't like plurality lynch.
Sorry, one more thing before I go to bed:
- If MiX was skum, pushing the promoter claim, I strongly believe they would of claimed town promoter here (if they were going to claim anything).
Seriously? MiX claiming promoter here would be scummy as hell. He already explicitly said he wasn’t the promoter. So if he claimed promoter he’d have to explain why he lied. Also, if you’re actually a town promoter, why say “I think the promoter should claim”? Why not just claim? scum!MiX’s only real options for claims were VT or bodyguard.
also more importantly - I completely forgot that it was a plurality lynch rule in effect. So all of my comments about doing it over no lynch are pretty much pointless - They can be replaced with "I would put my vote on Joseph for ADK over MiX" instead of "I want to vote Joseph, but I would go to ADK to avoid No Lynch". Same thing really, just specifying so there is no potential confusion in the future.
also more importantly - I completely forgot that it was a plurality lynch rule in effect. So all of my comments about doing it over no lynch are pretty much pointless - They can be replaced with "I would put my vote on Joseph for ADK over MiX" instead of "I want to vote Joseph, but I would go to ADK to avoid No Lynch". Same thing really, just specifying so there is no potential confusion in the future.
Can I interest you (or anyone else) in Joth?
No. EFHW came back.UnvoteI'll be available for the next three hours, then I'll be going to bed. Anyone want to ask me anything before MiX flips town?
Also, Chairs' saying "oh no, MiX was town after all" sounds suspiciously similar to my "oh no, MiX was town after all" at the end of day one in the last game I played. Significantly shorter and with less emotion, but similar. And I was scum that time.
Do you really like your vote on EFHW right now?
If y’all lynch me while I am sleeping, I’m gonna be ... fine with it cause I’m the Jester.
:P
Actually, vote: Joth
I wish MiX wasn't the default lynch right now. I just don't think he is scum. Despite my earlier comment, I really don't like plurality lynch.Don't see why we still have 4 people on MiX. The fact we do makes me feel that there's some scum on that wagon, as it was just so easy to build a wagon for him
The scrambling is being done by a limited number of people which means MiX is town and scum isn’t helping us consolidate anywhere else
Ties aren't broken randomly. Deadline 2 hours.
Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
wrong. I am false, you are correct. just re read it.
Doesn't me putting im to 4 now mean that before my vote, joth had more votes than Joseph and thus joth most recently had more votes? Either way it seems clear that joth has reached 4 votes first, so if the former is a tie, that would still lead to a joth lynch? I don't understand how you arrive at Joseph.Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
Doesn't me putting im to 4 now mean that before my vote, joth had more votes than Joseph and thus joth most recently had more votes? Either way it seems clear that joth has reached 4 votes first, so if the former is a tie, that would still lead to a joth lynch? I don't understand how you arrive at Joseph.Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
Also how much longer will you be around and would you be down for lynching ADK if we don't get Joseph?
Oh Joseph is still an option?Not a good option
Vote: Joseph
I would change to ADK to self preserve of if people convince me it's better than jothDoesn't me putting im to 4 now mean that before my vote, joth had more votes than Joseph and thus joth most recently had more votes? Either way it seems clear that joth has reached 4 votes first, so if the former is a tie, that would still lead to a joth lynch? I don't understand how you arrive at Joseph.Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
Also how much longer will you be around and would you be down for lynching ADK if we don't get Joseph?
I am around. Too much fun, I will be here until DL or when I pass out.
I got Joseph and Joth mixed up (assuming you are correct).
And if the difference is between MiX and ADK, I would go to ADK from Joseph. Joth would be an option as well. Pretty much I would prefer to not lynch MiX. The information-given line on Joth/MiX is pretty blurred imo - as in I think there is a better chance that Joth is skum but we would learn much more from a MiX flip.
TLDR; I will be around, and yes I would change to ADK if needed.
PPE 1
Do you have more to say? Barring some unexpected early morning people in the US, you are going to be the lynch.Oh Joseph is still an option?Not a good option
Vote: Joseph
Vote Count to my best ability:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (2): MiX, mcmcsalot
jotheonah (3): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
FFS, do I need to claim?
Well it depends if people are going to be idiotic enough to lynch me out of nowhere. This wagon seems scummy, as it built up from nowhere, unlike all the other wagons todayFFS, do I need to claim?
I would assume you already know whether a claim is beneficial or not for town... assuming you are town. i would not rope other's opinions into it as that could lead to more avenues for skum to pursue.
From where did the other wagons build up?Well it depends if people are going to be idiotic enough to lynch me out of nowhere. This wagon seems scummy, as it built up from nowhere, unlike all the other wagons todayFFS, do I need to claim?
I would assume you already know whether a claim is beneficial or not for town... assuming you are town. i would not rope other's opinions into it as that could lead to more avenues for skum to pursue.
I didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
VT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
VT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I think faust, mix are town, as faust's logic on me makes sense, even if it assumes I'm a competent human beingVT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
reads then. give them plz.
PPE
What faust said
I think faust, mix are town, as faust's logic on me makes sense, even if it assumes I'm a competent human beingVT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
reads then. give them plz.
PPE
What faust said
And chairs as well seems reasonably town from their limited number of posts
Joth and ADK seem scummier to me. Also slight scum read on Space, they've only voted for me this game ,and dont seem to hace considered many alternatives
I think faust, mix are town, as faust's logic on me makes sense, even if it assumes I'm a competent human beingVT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
reads then. give them plz.
PPE
What faust said
And chairs as well seems reasonably town from their limited number of posts
Joth and ADK seem scummier to me. Also slight scum read on Space, they've only voted for me this game ,and dont seem to hace considered many alternatives
what do you want me to do with this list?
You think that me and the only other person online are town.
You think that the other two lynch candidates that me and faust have spoken of are skum?
And then space?
PPE 1
Vote jothI think faust, mix are town, as faust's logic on me makes sense, even if it assumes I'm a competent human beingVT would be most convenient, as there's 5+ of themI didn't want to do it, but you'll probably lynch me otherwiseIt's the most convenient claim, as there can be 2.
I'm a semi elite bodyguard
reads then. give them plz.
PPE
What faust said
And chairs as well seems reasonably town from their limited number of posts
Joth and ADK seem scummier to me. Also slight scum read on Space, they've only voted for me this game ,and dont seem to hace considered many alternatives
what do you want me to do with this list?
You think that me and the only other person online are town.
You think that the other two lynch candidates that me and faust have spoken of are skum?
And then space?
PPE 1
Oh I didn't die yet. I was mostly just reading for fun at this point, but I guess I'm still in the game.
Vote: joth, because Joseph's claim will out him eventually.
I'll read everything that was said before I went to sleep more carefully.
Oh I didn't die yet. I was mostly just reading for fun at this point, but I guess I'm still in the game.
Vote: joth, because Joseph's claim will out him eventually.
I'll read everything that was said before I went to sleep more carefully.
Eventually is a long term word here. There have to be 2 relevant flips before their claim can be countered.
Isn't there always at least 1 Bodyguard?Oh I didn't die yet. I was mostly just reading for fun at this point, but I guess I'm still in the game.
Vote: joth, because Joseph's claim will out him eventually.
I'll read everything that was said before I went to sleep more carefully.
Eventually is a long term word here. There have to be 2 relevant flips before their claim can be countered.
That't not true actually, but assuming they are skum claiming under the info that there is at least one BG would be my point.
Oh I didn't die yet. I was mostly just reading for fun at this point, but I guess I'm still in the game.
Vote: joth, because Joseph's claim will out him eventually.
I'll read everything that was said before I went to sleep more carefully.
Eventually is a long term word here. There have to be 2 relevant flips before their claim can be countered.
We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
I mean all of this assumes Joseph is actually scum. If you are so sure that he is, we might as well lynch him now. If Joseph were town, and then 1 Bodyguard decides to "counterclaim", it only leads to both Bodyguards outed.We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
That's not true, although it would help if we were in that one for BG counterclaims. We could still force a 2v1, which I suppose is bad? But bodyguards can kill themselves to prove their townieness, so not the worst. There's also the fact that BG flips incriminate Joseph (although not before they all claim).
My point is, if they were skum they know which corner of the field is in play.I'm confused - how would scum know upper left vs bottom right?
Well the point of a bodyguard is to protect, and I feel like I lose that ability somewhat by being outed. But I had to claim
PPE: 1
We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
That's not true, although it would help if we were in that one for BG counterclaims. We could still force a 2v1, which I suppose is bad? But bodyguards can kill themselves to prove their townieness, so not the worst. There's also the fact that BG flips incriminate Joseph (although not before they all claim).
We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
That's not true, although it would help if we were in that one for BG counterclaims. We could still force a 2v1, which I suppose is bad? But bodyguards can kill themselves to prove their townieness, so not the worst. There's also the fact that BG flips incriminate Joseph (although not before they all claim).
Your logic makes sense. Except it is 130am PST and 80% of the players in the game are asleep.
PPE many
PPE 3: BGs should only claim when we know what town block there is, precisely because of that.But then if we know we're in upper left, they still shouldn't claim.
My point is, if they were skum they know which corner of the field is in play.I'm confused - how would scum know upper left vs bottom right?
I'm still confused. Why does that assumption make it so that they know?My point is, if they were skum they know which corner of the field is in play.I'm confused - how would scum know upper left vs bottom right?
under the assumption Joseph is skum.
My point is, if they were skum they know which corner of the field is in play.I'm confused - how would scum know upper left vs bottom right?
under the assumption Joseph is skum.
My point is, if they were skum they know which corner of the field is in play.I'm confused - how would scum know upper left vs bottom right?
under the assumption Joseph is skum.
I'm still confused. Why does that assumption make it so that they know?
I'm here, I'm kind of awake, I'm sad that no one joined me on galzThis is 5/5 now I believe?
vote: joseph fishy claim
I mean... I am ACTUALLY assuming Joseph is skum.I mean all of this assumes Joseph is actually scum. If you are so sure that he is, we might as well lynch him now. If Joseph were town, and then 1 Bodyguard decides to "counterclaim", it only leads to both Bodyguards outed.We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
That's not true, although it would help if we were in that one for BG counterclaims. We could still force a 2v1, which I suppose is bad? But bodyguards can kill themselves to prove their townieness, so not the worst. There's also the fact that BG flips incriminate Joseph (although not before they all claim).
Please don't. Because assuming I'm scum will encourage the other bodyguard (if applicable) to come out too. Also, I'm not scumI mean... I am ACTUALLY assuming Joseph is skum.I mean all of this assumes Joseph is actually scum. If you are so sure that he is, we might as well lynch him now. If Joseph were town, and then 1 Bodyguard decides to "counterclaim", it only leads to both Bodyguards outed.We only need to know what town block there is for bodyguards to start counterclaiming. There's also the fact bodyguards have to breadcrumb who they target, which means...well, mostly that Traitor doesn't want to claim it. I'm fine with either lynch, but I think joth's just a bit too eager to lynch me.That only works if we're in the town block that doesn't have an extra bodyguard.
That's not true, although it would help if we were in that one for BG counterclaims. We could still force a 2v1, which I suppose is bad? But bodyguards can kill themselves to prove their townieness, so not the worst. There's also the fact that BG flips incriminate Joseph (although not before they all claim).
6/5 I think.I'm here, I'm kind of awake, I'm sad that no one joined me on galzThis is 5/5 now I believe?
vote: joseph fishy claim
6/5 I think.I'm here, I'm kind of awake, I'm sad that no one joined me on galzThis is 5/5 now I believe?
vote: joseph fishy claim
This is what I think it looks like:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
This is what I think it looks like:Ffs ADK is so scummy for voting for a claimed PR
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
I thought Datswan switched to joth?This is what I think it looks like:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
checks out from my count
But of course I am town for it. ::)This is what I think it looks like:Ffs ADK is so scummy for voting for a claimed PR
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
I thought Datswan switched to joth?This is what I think it looks like:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
checks out from my count
Well you're an idiot not to.I thought Datswan switched to joth?This is what I think it looks like:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, Faust, Joth, ADK
checks out from my count
I did not.
Well you're an idiot not to.
Because I'm a bodyguard
So either scum are bussing, or mix isn't a known scum
Yes scum in {joth, ADK, Space}
I'm around.. read the thread briefly earlier then fell asleep again. Now at work, expecting imminent inconveniently-timed meeting.
Space-count in a moment...
I'm okay with my Joseph vote, old as it is. I'll re-read Joth just in case.
I'm okay with my Joseph vote, old as it is. I'll re-read Joth just in case.
Why are you okay with Joseph? Although I think you're town, I don't think you've done much today...
Bah.. work got in the way and now I think the deadline has past.
I'm okay with my Joseph vote, old as it is. I'll re-read Joth just in case.
Why are you okay with Joseph? Although I think you're town, I don't think you've done much today...
Well, either he's a poorly-fakeclaiming scum, or he's town who's really not thinking things through too clearly.
Are you saying you wanted him to look scummy?
MiX! I was all set to not target you but that post makes me want to target you! Can you prove that fighting with me was a gambit? Is there a breadcrumb?
Are you saying you wanted him to look scummy?
No, it wasn't intentional...I'm not that crazy. I just like how it "worked", in a way. I saw that joth's posts are way, WAY bigger when he's scum, and in this game he hasn't made one of those yet. That and he's actually scumhunting and following his townmeta and whatnot.MiX! I was all set to not target you but that post makes me want to target you! Can you prove that fighting with me was a gambit? Is there a breadcrumb?
Answer's above, I just wanted to quote this to say...how can I breadcrumb a gambit? Then again I have no idea how to breadcrumb, so...
Are you saying you wanted him to look scummy?
No, it wasn't intentional...I'm not that crazy. I just like how it "worked", in a way. I saw that joth's posts are way, WAY bigger when he's scum, and in this game he hasn't made one of those yet. That and he's actually scumhunting and following his townmeta and whatnot.MiX! I was all set to not target you but that post makes me want to target you! Can you prove that fighting with me was a gambit? Is there a breadcrumb?
Answer's above, I just wanted to quote this to say...how can I breadcrumb a gambit? Then again I have no idea how to breadcrumb, so...
Ok, but you have to realize how this looks...
If promoter is scum, I was either targeted (A) because MiX is town and scum thought I couldn’t resist challenging him, (B) because MiX is scum and scum thought I wouldn’t dare challenge him, or (C) because everyone has such a scumread on me that it doesn’t matter who I challenge because I’ll lose.
Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were. And while losing a doctor sucks, he was realistically probably not going to be the most helpful doctor anyway. And we avoided the incredibly awkward scenario of having both him and his victim still around in LyLo. Not sure why he lied about his role though.
I support targeting MiX.
Bodyguard is the best fakeclaim for Lyncher, and I have no idea who wouldn't kill him after a Lyncher claim.
Bodyguard is the best fakeclaim for Lyncher, and I have no idea who wouldn't kill him after a Lyncher claim.
Because he's also a doctor?
Let's face it, if it was (A) scum would have been smarter to target me. You voted for several people yesterday and seemed willing to move your vote to get a lynch. I parked my vote on MiX and kept trying to corall people back to him.
OTOH, I seem to have an uncanny ability to not be remembered by anyone.
I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this
Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter
This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.
Why are you setting this possibility aside? You could be wrong and your wagon might not go anywhere, so why do you think this is rare?
The worst scum can do if they have a promoter is target one of us. Then it’s up to us to decide if we want to call out each other. The very fact that we’ve had this conversation makes me less likely to target MiX in that scenario. So there’s a lot of layers of WIFOM. I honestly don’t think it’s a big deal.
(D) Scum promoter picked me because I've been playing this one a little trollish and they thought I would be the most likely to go maverick and challenge someone without consulting the larger town.
If Jotheonah challenges MiX, I'm voting Jotheonah.
(D) Scum promoter picked me because I've been playing this one a little trollish and they thought I would be the most likely to go maverick and challenge someone without consulting the larger town.
If Jotheonah challenges MiX, I'm voting Jotheonah.
If Jotheonah challenges MiX, I'm voting Jotheonah.
As much as I like this defence...why do you think I'm townier than joth?
This is actually very helpful. Others, feel free to weigh in with which way you would vote in that scenario.
Also: if not MiX, who should I challenge?
This is actually very helpful. Others, feel free to weigh in with which way you would vote in that scenario.
Also: if not MiX, who should I challenge?
I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.
I wouldn't vote. What happens if no one votes?
I wouldn't vote. What happens if no one votes?
Probably random. So I'd vote MiX bc vt, like he said.
Good with Galz, ari.
Actually, scratch that, I would vote for joth in that unfortunate scenario. But joth, you should really not pick MiX.
If Jotheonah challenges MiX, I'm voting Jotheonah.
Vote: Glooble
Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were.
I don't, obviously. I do think joth is townier. He's also on the shortlist for possible Lyncher targets, so.Vote: Glooble
Don't you think it's a bit too...direct? Straightforward? I do. I think Glooble's just tunnelling town...what do you think?
I mean, MiX is VT, but Glooble also basically claimed VT, albeit in a much shadier fashion:Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were.
I don't, obviously. I do think joth is townier. He's also on the shortlist for possible Lyncher targets, so.Vote: Glooble
Don't you think it's a bit too...direct? Straightforward? I do. I think Glooble's just tunnelling town...what do you think?
I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.
Bold move, Cotton.
It can. It's not a straight up VT claim, but he does clearly state that he's not one of our investigative roles, which... why would town ever do that?I mean, MiX is VT, but Glooble also basically claimed VT, albeit in a much shadier fashion:Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were.
Why can't that post be made as Bodyguard?
You can still vote other people, you know.
I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.
Bold move, Cotton.
Welp there goes me voting jotheonah over mix.
vote: mix
I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.
Bold move, Cotton.
Welp there goes me voting jotheonah over mix.
vote: mix
Stating that you'd vote for me in the showdown and then voting for the only person who's voiced support for me? Kind of feels like you're trying to intimidate others into falling in line.It's a tried and trusted strategy.
Actually, scratch that, I would vote for joth in that unfortunate scenario. But joth, you should really not pick MiX.
Just out of curiosity, why not?
I have a feeling I know who Lynchee is. Should we talk about it?
Stating that you'd vote for me in the showdown and then voting for the only person who's voiced support for me? Kind of feels like you're trying to intimidate others into falling in line.It's a tried and trusted strategy.
But seriously, I mean you know Glooble better than I do. Can you look at his pseudoclaim and say he'd be this thoughtless as town?
Also I've stated that I think you're town. I'd just prefer if you targeted someone scummy.
Well at least that means we don't have a jester.
MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.
MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)
Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.
Space is towny, so is galz and chairs. I agree with joth about aroshapes post being scummy but I still find him overall towny, maybe I need to reread ari.
The scrambling is being done by a limited number of people which means MiX is town and scum isn’t helping us consolidate anywhere else
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
Nailed it. I can’t believe that was staring me in the face and all I could do was go “Joth feels wrong” but couldn’t figure out what was bothering me.
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
This is dumb.
I mean, it's not prima facie dumb, but like, my scummiest player read is MiX. I've made this extremely clear. And yet, how is it pro-town for me to choose MiX if that's just going to result in me being lynched? It isn't. In order to use this in a pro-town way, my first priority actually is, and should be, to survive it. Because I'm the only person I know with 100 percent certainty is town. Any course of action that doesn't save me is a losing proposition, regardless of the scumminess of my target.
mcmcsalot was definitely town, and is an experienced player, so let's look at his reads, shall we?So what did you learn?
If people would rather I just challenge the player I find scummiest, I'll do it right now. Instead I'm being punished for soliciting town input? Like seriously what the heck? I've been asking everyone for alternative choices and all I get is crickets.
Vote: Galz
Boo.
mcmcsalot was definitely town, and is an experienced player, so let's look at his reads, shall we?So what did you learn?
Galz is basically saying this
"Joth is choosing a battle he thinks he can win before starting the battle. That's scummy! He should just choose a battle he wants to win and then try to win it even if he has no chance!"
That's basically the worst possible military strategy.
This is perfectly reasonable. I don't think Galz is onto anything there.I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
This is dumb.
I mean, it's not prima facie dumb, but like, my scummiest player read is MiX. I've made this extremely clear. And yet, how is it pro-town for me to choose MiX if that's just going to result in me being lynched? It isn't. In order to use this in a pro-town way, my first priority actually is, and should be, to survive it. Because I'm the only person I know with 100 percent certainty is town. Any course of action that doesn't save me is a losing proposition, regardless of the scumminess of my target.
mcmcsalot was definitely town, and is an experienced player, so let's look at his reads, shall we?So what did you learn?
Alright, I have been jumping the gun here by not actually presenting my case on MiX, so I'm going to do my best to do that.
1) Lots and lots of shameless buddying, which feels off-meta for MiX who is normally a little more petulant and combative (no offense). Yesterday he was seriously buddying ari, today it's me.
2) His initial reaction to his wagon yesterday, flailing around to find another lynch without really presenting a scum case on anyone, advocating essentially for a lurker lynch, felt very scummy to me.
3) I don't find his VT claim remotely vindicating. As far as I'm concerned, it should be the default claim for caught scum. Joseph claimed a powerful role and it didn't save him. MiX claimed VT and it did. He's a smart player and sometimes an orthogonal thinker, he could have figured out how that would go.
4) I am finding his play today consistent with a narrative where scum promoter chose me, expecting me to choose a non-MiX target based on the post I quoted earlier where I basically said I wouldn't choose MiX (with Mix's buddying as a back-up plan to urge this along).
4) I am finding his play today consistent with a narrative where scum promoter chose me, expecting me to choose a non-MiX target based on the post I quoted earlier where I basically said I wouldn't choose MiX (with Mix's buddying as a back-up plan to urge this along).I disagree with other parts, but here I strongly feel the confirmation bias. Surely if scum wanted to avoid MiX being challenged, there would be way better targets than you.
4) I am finding his play today consistent with a narrative where scum promoter chose me, expecting me to choose a non-MiX target based on the post I quoted earlier where I basically said I wouldn't choose MiX (with Mix's buddying as a back-up plan to urge this along).I disagree with other parts, but here I strongly feel the confirmation bias. Surely if scum wanted to avoid MiX being challenged, there would be way better targets than you.
Also I don't know about you guys, but I feel like MiX is always buddying me.
Who's your second choice, after mix?
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
Can't currently think of a reason you would say this and not tell us what post you're referring to, given that scum already knows Mix's alignment.
If promoter is scum, I was either targeted (A) because MiX is town and scum thought I couldn’t resist challenging him, (B) because MiX is scum and scum thought I wouldn’t dare challenge him, or (C) because everyone has such a scumread on me that it doesn’t matter who I challenge because I’ll lose.
(C)'s the one that makes the most amount of sense here, given that if (B) then (C)'s still important in case you randomly pick another scum. This is especially true because Traitor exists. (A) sounds foolish, but given that you're thinking about (B) then (A) might actually be something scum think.
Can you tell I like those letters?Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were. And while losing a doctor sucks, he was realistically probably not going to be the most helpful doctor anyway. And we avoided the incredibly awkward scenario of having both him and his victim still around in LyLo. Not sure why he lied about his role though.
Bodyguard is the best fakeclaim for Lyncher, and I have no idea who wouldn't kill him after a Lyncher claim.I support targeting MiX.
Do you think scum's thinking about (B) here?
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
Can't currently think of a reason you would say this and not tell us what post you're referring to, given that scum already knows Mix's alignment.
Ok, fine.If promoter is scum, I was either targeted (A) because MiX is town and scum thought I couldn’t resist challenging him, (B) because MiX is scum and scum thought I wouldn’t dare challenge him, or (C) because everyone has such a scumread on me that it doesn’t matter who I challenge because I’ll lose.
(C)'s the one that makes the most amount of sense here, given that if (B) then (C)'s still important in case you randomly pick another scum. This is especially true because Traitor exists. (A) sounds foolish, but given that you're thinking about (B) then (A) might actually be something scum think.
Can you tell I like those letters?Lyncher Doctor means no jester, which is nice. Kills several theories I had yesterday about why certain people were behaving the way they were. And while losing a doctor sucks, he was realistically probably not going to be the most helpful doctor anyway. And we avoided the incredibly awkward scenario of having both him and his victim still around in LyLo. Not sure why he lied about his role though.
Bodyguard is the best fakeclaim for Lyncher, and I have no idea who wouldn't kill him after a Lyncher claim.I support targeting MiX.
Do you think scum's thinking about (B) here?
I bolded the part above that’s relevant. Scum doesn’t make that mistaken point as they know that there is NOT, in fact, a Traitor, as we’re in BC/BD, not AD/BD - something I myself can validate as the Town Promoter.
With Joseph’s flip, the setup is:
5 VT
Vengeful Townie
Psychologist
Tracker
Town Promoter
Semi-Elite Body Guard
Mafia Godfather
2 Mafia Goons
Lyncher Doctor
I promoted Joth last night because I believed he was scum from D1. My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads. I decided it was too random to just pick one of the people on Joseph, so stuck with my gut on Joth.
If I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
If I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...
I am so close to just challenging Galz right now.QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...
Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?
I am so close to just challenging Galz right now.QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
Surprise!
Challenge me. Now.
Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Can you explain that last sentence?
Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Of course I did. I never had any intention of you being lynched. I did what Faust was trying to do, just better. Instead of making a bad case (or no case at all) on a player to see who “climbs aboard”, I made a much more reasonable case based on a lack of general information knowing full well that it’s exactly the sort of thing scum likes to promote because of it’s inherent reasonability.
I am so close to just challenging Galz right now.QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
Surprise!
Challenge me. Now.
Well this is just very scummy, right?
Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
I am so close to just challenging Galz right now.QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
Surprise!
Challenge me. Now.
Well this is just very scummy, right?
Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Can you explain that last sentence?
What part of it?Knew it. Wait you're not Glooble...oh dear.
Notice how joth's sentence starts with "If promoter is scum", I've been over this when i voted faust in D1 because Joseph's slip wasn't actually a slip because of it (and Joseph wasn't even scum so he wouldn't know it). Why did you claim?
Also, we're in B. There's no other possible setup. I like Galzria's bold claim...I retract townpoints from Glooble now. But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Of course I did. I never had any intention of you being lynched. I did what Faust was trying to do, just better. Instead of making a bad case (or no case at all) on a player to see who “climbs aboard”, I made a much more reasonable case based on a lack of general information knowing full well that it’s exactly the sort of thing scum likes to promote because of it’s inherent reasonability.
"Of course I did" is an answer to what? What did you do that is so much better than what faust did? Did you answer my previous question of why you think joth's trying to see who he can win against instead of who's scum?
PPE 2
Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
We have 3 days (well, mostly 2, because doing it last second might backfire), why do you want to be challenged right now? Do you think joth's scum?
@Galz if you were town, you would be trying to talk me into targeting one of your other scum reads (the mislynch wishlist you posted before) rather than trying to goad me into targeting you.
@Galz if you were town, you would be trying to talk me into targeting one of your other scum reads (the mislynch wishlist you posted before) rather than trying to goad me into targeting you.
A) I think you’re scum.
B) You will target the person you think you can win against regardless.
C) My opinions on who you should target are stated. Unsurprisingly, you won’t consider the majority of that list.
“Of course I knew we were in B”.
I bolded the part above that’s relevant. Scum doesn’t make that mistaken point as they know that there is NOT, in fact, a Traitor, as we’re in BC/BD, not AD/BD - something I myself can validate as the Town Promoter.
Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
We have 3 days (well, mostly 2, because doing it last second might backfire), why do you want to be challenged right now? Do you think joth's scum?
Yes. I’ve stated this.
I am so close to just challenging Galz right now.QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
Surprise!
Challenge me. Now.
Well this is just very scummy, right?
Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
You're not going to goad me into this. There's still a reasonable chance you are misguided town. And if you are scum, the last thing I want to do is the thing you want me to do.
“Of course I knew we were in B”.
Why did you sayI bolded the part above that’s relevant. Scum doesn’t make that mistaken point as they know that there is NOT, in fact, a Traitor, as we’re in BC/BD, not AD/BD - something I myself can validate as the Town Promoter.
(bolded mine)Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
We have 3 days (well, mostly 2, because doing it last second might backfire), why do you want to be challenged right now? Do you think joth's scum?
Yes. I’ve stated this.
Everything about this feels like scum!Galz. Other people who have played a lot with Galz, agree/disagree?
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
Galz, why didn't you claim yesterday?
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
“I want to wait to challenge you before it’s clear which one of us will win, because at best I have a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not - which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-ME and rushing is clearly pro-YOU”
Fixed that for you.
“Of course I knew we were in B”.
Why did you sayI bolded the part above that’s relevant. Scum doesn’t make that mistaken point as they know that there is NOT, in fact, a Traitor, as we’re in BC/BD, not AD/BD - something I myself can validate as the Town Promoter.
(bolded mine)Why are you still seeking opinions? Need to know if you can win?
We have 3 days (well, mostly 2, because doing it last second might backfire), why do you want to be challenged right now? Do you think joth's scum?
Yes. I’ve stated this.
My point was that you stated (erroneously) that there WAS a traitor. This is not a mistake scum makes because we ARE in the “B” column, which scum (and I, as the town Promoter) know to be true. If you were scum you wouldn’t make that setup mistake there.
If Galz is scum promoter, then we do in fact have a traitor, which means his post about MiX would have required a lot of mental gymnastics to dream up. That's a point in favor of him being town.
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
“I want to wait to challenge you before it’s clear which one of us will win, because at best I have a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not - which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-ME and rushing is clearly pro-YOU”
Fixed that for you.
I think we need to wait for more people to get online and weigh in.
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...
Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?
Why wouldn't they?
Every time, all the time baby!I thought we had something special!
Vote: faust
But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Can you explain that last sentence?
What part of it?
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
“I want to wait to challenge you before it’s clear which one of us will win, because at best I have a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not - which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-ME and rushing is clearly pro-YOU”
Fixed that for you.
Again, since I'm the only person I know to be 100% town, I fail to see the distinction.
I think we need to wait for more people to get online and weigh in.
Oh I agree, but I think watching Galz dig his own grave is a fun activity while we're waiting.
But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Can you explain that last sentence?
What part of it?
Where does Galz display uncertainty about the setup?
But Galzria's scum for not knowing it's setup B with 100% guarantee.
Can you explain that last sentence?
What part of it?
Where does Galz display uncertainty about the setup?
He describes the setup in a way I was not familiar: He said "BC/BD" when talking about setup B: I was confused, but then I realized he was talking about the SQUARES BC and BD, which combined form setup B. So I was wrong.
I still want Galzria dead, mostly because I have no idea how joth can be scum here. Also I still think promoter's scum.
PPE 2
My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!
I kinda get town vibes from Galzria, but it is important to remember that he has now a 50% a priori chance of being scum, much higher than anyone else.
The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.
You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.
My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!
My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!
He was a Doctor who had no negative utility towards town except wanting one particular VT townie lynched. Granted, he messed up and should’ve claimed his own role (but not his target) with the promise to work with town to find scum - so I can’t blame anybody but him for his own lynch - but lynching him after the claim was bad... even if the claim itself was bad.
My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!
He was a Doctor who had no negative utility towards town except wanting one particular VT townie lynched. Granted, he messed up and should’ve claimed his own role (but not his target) with the promise to work with town to find scum - so I can’t blame anybody but him for his own lynch - but lynching him after the claim was bad... even if the claim itself was bad.
Galz, why did you claim?
The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.
You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.
I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.
Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.
Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2
But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.
You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.
I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.
Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.
Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2
Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.
I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.
MiX, I am rereading the end of D1 and you were pretty adamant about me being scum. Then, at the beginning of today you're all about that town read on me. What's that about?
But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.
You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.
I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.
Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.
Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2
Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.
I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
Joth, I used to think you were scum. Then you got promoted and seem to be handling it wonderfully, especially with Galz's claim. You're keeping calm, cool, and logical. Galz, why did you claim?
The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.
I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.
I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.
I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?
The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.
You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.
I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.
Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.
Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2
Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.
I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.
This is actually pretty well-stated. And you're right, it would be silly for you to choose yourself or a town read (although has town cred =/= town read) But none of it explains:
(A) Why you would try to goad me into challenging you, which is exactly the opposite of what you've described above
(B) Why you would try to rush me rather than making my decision with a maximum amount of information
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
This is also pretty accurate.
There are some town that honestly, incorrectly, believe that the role is negative utility. If there’s a scum!Promoter, then it’s a fairly valuable tool, and they aren’t going to claim. Being able to force a lynch between {Town*:X} is quite strong. If it’s a town!Promoter, it’s also rather valuable, as they’ll get to ensure their top scum read is one of two players to be lynchable the following day - and if that player happens to be town, they’ll likely be challenging their own top scum read. I’ll take that any day.
If it’s a Scum!Promoter, they aren’t claiming. If it’s a town!promoter, scum (plus some misguided town) want that player dead.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.
Vote: Swan
You have a point ADK, but I believe the only person who hasn't posted yet is Swan. Oh and Space, forgot.
Vote: Swan
You have a point ADK, but I believe the only person who hasn't posted yet is Swan. Oh and Space, forgot.
Chill home slice - game started 3am my time and the. Up and to work. I will be caught up by this evening.
Which does bring up an important point - if anyone is considering avoiding then 1v1, our DL is significantly shorter up to that point.
Can you guys be as active when I'm asleep as when I'm awake? We just had an intense talk about joth, me, challenging, Galzria and promoter and I would love to wake up to another 5 pages of discussion. Hopefully featuring {Swan EFHW chairs gkrieg Space} a lot so I can read them. Pretty please?
Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
We don't know the setup. Galz could be mafia promoter. Or did I miss something?Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
We should probably give people the opportunity to claim before you challenge, yes. At this point we know the setup so any fakeclaims can be countered.
We don't know the setup. Galz could be mafia promoter. Or did I miss something?Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
We should probably give people the opportunity to claim before you challenge, yes. At this point we know the setup so any fakeclaims can be countered.
We don't know the setup. Galz could be mafia promoter. Or did I miss something?Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
We should probably give people the opportunity to claim before you challenge, yes. At this point we know the setup so any fakeclaims can be countered.
Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
If Galz is scum promoter, then we do in fact have a traitor, which means his post about MiX would have required a lot of mental gymnastics to dream up. That's a point in favor of him being town.It's a way for scum!Galzria to signal to the traitor that he is mafia.
Maybe this will spark some conversation:Thank you. I've scumread Faust all game. Although it could just be my anti meta bias. I'll give Faust a re-read.
I am planning to challenge faust.
Maybe this will spark some conversation:
I am planning to challenge faust.
Maybe this will spark some conversation:I am the Tracker.
I am planning to challenge faust.
Maybe this will spark some conversation:I am the Tracker.
I am planning to challenge faust.
Why do you propose Space?Inactivity plus they were keeping their distance from the Joseph wagon as if they expected Joseph to flip town.
QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
I am planning to challenge faust.
Do you believe Space's "helpfulness" in D1, coupled with them saying it was pro-town, gives Space scumpoints?No.
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...
Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?
Why wouldn't they?
1) If mix is town there's no motivation for them to claim and stop you from picking him 2) If mix is scum this irrevocably ties galz and mix together, and if one of them is caught the other one does. It's a huge risk just to stop you from picking mix, when it's pretty clear that if you did pick mix, you would be the one lynched anyway.
Note that my post that mcmc thinks is so scummy did another useful pro-town thing: it boosted the signal on faust's comment about the possibility of a quick-lynch before the Gladiator deadline kicks in, and obtained clear mod confirmation that it's a viable plan, which avoids uncertainty during the critical window at the start of D2.
I did also say that I don't think we should do any pre-planning around that till D2, but the idea itself was already accessible to scum, so it's not like I hurt our chances there. Furthermore, if it's being discussed at this level, a scum Gladiator has less excuse to say "oops, it didn't occur to me that we should hold out till deadline" if they come into the thread naming a second player. Same goes for avoiding a derp!town move.
Basically, I think it's pro-town to point out to whomever the gladiator is that it's a good idea to hold off and let town have some rapid start-of-D2 discussion before naming anyone else to the 1-v-1.
joth, please explain how you went from this:QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
to this:I am planning to challenge faust.
joth, please explain how you went from this:QuoteIf I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.
Literally my top three town reads.
to this:I am planning to challenge faust.
Oh I was planning to. After I issued the challenge.
So assuming no counterclaim, I don’t think it can be faust. Space would be my next choice I suppose, since the case also applies to them. I have a bit more potential Space evidence as well.
So assuming no counterclaim, I don’t think it can be faust. Space would be my next choice I suppose, since the case also applies to them. I have a bit more potential Space evidence as well.
I'm okay with that but please reread gKrieg and tell me he's not super scummy.
Do you believe Space's "helpfulness" in D1, coupled with them saying it was pro-town, gives Space scumpoints? Because that seems to be the majority of Space's D1, coupled with her permanent vote on Joseph and some thoughts about me.
@Space, when you see this...can you explain everything about why you never moved your vote from Joseph? I think it would be great if we had this explained.
Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.
Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true
Then today starts, and neither faust nor space makes any effort to make a pre-challenge lynch happen, to delay my challenge, or even to remind us of the option. Weird, no?
Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.
He may have made a slip around traitor, but the one I'm specifically referring to is the one faust pointed out after Joseph's claim, after which Joseph offered a pretty poor defense:Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true
I think it was very reasonable to think something fishy was going on with Joseph after this. I'd hoped he was scum fake-claiming, but I'll take a non-townie roll over a town lynch.
Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.
He may have made a slip around traitor, but the one I'm specifically referring to is the one faust pointed out after Joseph's claim, after which Joseph offered a pretty poor defense:Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true
I think it was very reasonable to think something fishy was going on with Joseph after this. I'd hoped he was scum fake-claiming, but I'll take a non-townie roll over a town lynch.
Why didn't you explain this at the end of day 1?
Sorry had my final final yesterday and I’m not active on the weekends. Challenging a lurker is a bad choice anyway, as it requires people to take a stand on someone who it is easy to take a stand on.
I stayed away from Joseph early before the lynch had happened because I actually didn’t think he was scum. I did take strong stands on people, it was just usually about town reads like faust and Space and Joseph.
gKrieg: Okay, I think we've found my top choice for challenging/ lynching today. Reread him real quick. It won't take long, cause he hasn't said much. What he has said has been entirely reactive. This is actilurking at its finest. Lots of "I agree with this" and "this is a little scummy". Almost no analysis, and no strong stands about other people's scumminess. Everything is deniable. vote: gKrieg
DatSwan: Total Null read. Confused about the setup (or pretending to be.) Could easily be scum but I still like gKrieg more. DatSwan, apropos of nothing, why do you spell scum with a "k"?
1) Joth waiting for a claim is weird. There is no world in which there is a CC prior to a target being selected.
We should massclaim.
I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.
What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims
Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win
We should massclaim.Or we could wait and let people claim before lynching them.
I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.
What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims
Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win
Realistically, massclaim wouldn't finish before joth has to choose his target, so it's not useful today.
I realize you don't like my proposed challengee (Glooble). Maybe the fact that two town PRs suggested him will change your mind? But I doubt it. In lieu of that, I propose gkrieg or Space.
1) Joth waiting for a claim is weird. There is no world in which there is a CC prior to a target being selected.
Really? I think if faust is scum then a townie tracker speaks up immediately because they know faust is conf!scum, and they have to ensure that faust is the one to go into the 1v1 with Joth, because what better evidence can you ever get that someone is scum than them claiming your own role?
I do think that faust is basically IC, assuming everyone has checked into the thread at least once since he claimed (which I haven't yet checked).
My current sense is that joth, MiX, Galz and faust are all town.
Of the remainder: [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW], 3 are probably scum. 3/7 from my perspective.
I don't think we get as many IC's from claiming as ADK thinks. Both bodyguards and 1-3 scum could claim bodyguard, so that's a wash, no better than the gladiator fight. There might be a traitor, so an innocent result from the psychologist isn't for sure. Psychologist would be IC if not counterclaimed, otherwise 50/50. Vengeful Townie could become IC since scum wouldn't fakeclaim that, given that the counterclaim would lead to their death by revenge even if they aren't lynched. So max two ICs, plus faust.
I'm in favor of proceeding as we have been.
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
My current sense is that joth, MiX, Galz and faust are all town.
Of the remainder: [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW], 3 are probably scum. 3/7 from my perspective.
I don't think we get as many IC's from claiming as ADK thinks. Both bodyguards and 1-3 scum could claim bodyguard, so that's a wash, no better than the gladiator fight. There might be a traitor, so an innocent result from the psychologist isn't for sure. Psychologist would be IC if not counterclaimed, otherwise 50/50. Vengeful Townie could become IC since scum wouldn't fakeclaim that, given that the counterclaim would lead to their death by revenge even if they aren't lynched. So max two ICs, plus faust.
I'm in favor of proceeding as we have been.
So vengeful townie bit is off by a few notches. If anything the vengeful claims, there are 2 options.
1) skum does not cc and most likely kills them
2) skum CCs.... then we have 2 potential targets. If we guess right then yay, if not then we loose a townie and we also force that townie to take a shot at a wagon with a absolute maximum of 3/7 shot of finding skum.
Town!DatSwan is more likely to talk off the top of his head in rapid fire deductions, sometimes going astray. But I'd still vote him over joth. I'll reread a few people, see if I have a better suggestion.
399 ari is showing OMGUSIs it bad if I agree with you, but also kind of think you are scum?Vote: ariPerfectly timed bus. Well-done.
Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.
What’s the case on gkrieg? He’s a PoE choice. I’m not challenging a PoE choice, it’s the worst kind of case. Someone give me something real to go on and I’ll consider it.
The players that are painting me skummy by pretending they think i am confused based on how i type... are in fact skummy. I play this way 100% of the time. It is not towny, or skummy. Only played a few with mix, but makes me suspect EFHW.
I feel like people are reading my words and not understanding my logic, or at least the wording of it.
As I stated, i do not think the concept of having every player that is potentially going to be targeted as a gladiator claim is a good idea. So i will not be claiming at this time.
I also, after a read, don’t really have a super case to make on anyone outside of what i have said.
The players that are painting me skummy by pretending they think i am confused based on how i type... are in fact skummy. I play this way 100% of the time. It is not towny, or skummy. Only played a few with mix, but makes me suspect EFHW.
The players that are painting me skummy by pretending they think i am confused based on how i type... are in fact skummy. I play this way 100% of the time. It is not towny, or skummy. Only played a few with mix, but makes me suspect EFHW.
Hold on...didn't EFHW defend you? She even said you're "town > scum", why is she scummy?
I also, after a read, don’t really have a super case to make on anyone outside of what i have said.
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
I also, after a read, don’t really have a super case to make on anyone outside of what i have said.
If you had to pick from {ADK, Glooble, gkrieg, EFHW, ari, Space, chairs} to challenge, who would it be?
I also, after a read, don’t really have a super case to make on anyone outside of what i have said.
If you had to pick from {ADK, Glooble, gkrieg, EFHW, ari, Space, chairs} to challenge, who would it be?
Not really a question that matters, as I am not the one doing the choosing.
Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.I think scum doesn't do that often.
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.I think scum doesn't do that often.
I can't see anyone voting joth over you.I would.
I can't see anyone voting joth over you.I would.
I think it serves no purposes for scum!Swan to throw around wrong info as there are enough savvy people around that it will be figured out in no time. So he got it wrong genuinely or just to towncred himself, where I think the former is more likely because it's really not that much of a source of towncred anyways.Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.I think scum doesn't do that often.
Do you think Swan's getting everything about the setup wrong as town? Because that would be according to his meta for sure, something scum!Swan would love to do as well.
I think he's throwing around his challengee target at a lot of people in order to draw as many claims as possible.I can't see anyone voting joth over you.I would.
I would ask why, but you're the IC. Do you wish to state why you believe joth is scum?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Hold on, I just saw a contradiction here. It is impossible for the Traitor to lie there AND to be 2 scum there. I believe this mistake comes more from scum that absolutely know there IS no Traitor. How do you explain this Swan?Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.I think scum doesn't do that often.
Do you think Swan's getting everything about the setup wrong as town? Because that would be according to his meta for sure, something scum!Swan would love to do as well.
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Hold on, I just saw a contradiction here. It is impossible for the Traitor to lie there AND to be 2 scum there. I believe this mistake comes more from scum that absolutely know there IS no Traitor. How do you explain this Swan?
You are parsing 2 different trains of my thought together. All i Did was point out the maximum potential amount of skum - could be 2 skum in the pool or 3 skum in the pool.
challenge: DatSwan
YOLO
| jotheonah(0): VS | DatSwan(3): |
| MiX | |
| jotheonah | |
| A Drowned Kernel |
So here's DatSwan, a relatively scummy person, on the PoE list, already said he wouldn't claim, and several people are defending him. That's what I got. You should vote for him.It takes a special kind of twisted reasoning if people defending someone makes them scummy. And who was defending anyway? Me? You think I'm his partner?
So here's DatSwan, a relatively scummy person, on the PoE list, already said he wouldn't claim, and several people are defending him. That's what I got. You should vote for him.It takes a special kind of twisted reasoning if people defending someone makes them scummy. And who was defending anyway? Me? You think I'm his partner?
Why do you think joth is town?So here's DatSwan, a relatively scummy person, on the PoE list, already said he wouldn't claim, and several people are defending him. That's what I got. You should vote for him.It takes a special kind of twisted reasoning if people defending someone makes them scummy. And who was defending anyway? Me? You think I'm his partner?
EFHW was. Do you actually believe joth's scummier than swan...? Do you think town would never want their scumreads to claim?
Why do you think joth is town?So here's DatSwan, a relatively scummy person, on the PoE list, already said he wouldn't claim, and several people are defending him. That's what I got. You should vote for him.It takes a special kind of twisted reasoning if people defending someone makes them scummy. And who was defending anyway? Me? You think I'm his partner?
EFHW was. Do you actually believe joth's scummier than swan...? Do you think town would never want their scumreads to claim?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Hold on, I just saw a contradiction here. It is impossible for the Traitor to lie there AND to be 2 scum there. I believe this mistake comes more from scum that absolutely know there IS no Traitor. How do you explain this Swan?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Hold on, I just saw a contradiction here. It is impossible for the Traitor to lie there AND to be 2 scum there. I believe this mistake comes more from scum that absolutely know there IS no Traitor. How do you explain this Swan?
I don't think this is as damning as you seem to think it is, but I do accept there's a contradiction. I agree with faust that it's probably just Swan not thinking through everything, though.
If all of his second list is town, then there are probably 3 full mafia members in the first list (if other assumptions about Joth etc being townie hold), so that part of the statement holds.
Alternatively, we're in a situation where Galz lied about being town promoter, in which case he's on team evil, so if he's mafia promoter or mafia goon, then there's at most one full mafia member in the first list, plus quite probably the traitor (given the same assumptions about the second list being townie). So stated correctly, if he's counting the traitor as "not skum" then he ought to have said 1-3/8, not just 2 or 3/8. I think it's kind of a technicality.
Note: I'm not arguing in this post that anyone on the second list (besides faust) is conf!town, I'm just stating the assumptions that seem to have been present in Swan's reasoning when he made that statement.
I don't think this is as damning as you seem to think it is, but I do accept there's a contradiction. I agree with faust that it's probably just Swan not thinking through everything, though.
If all of his second list is town, then there are probably 3 full mafia members in the first list (if other assumptions about Joth etc being townie hold), so that part of the statement holds.
Alternatively, we're in a situation where Galz lied about being town promoter, in which case he's on team evil, so if he's mafia promoter or mafia goon, then there's at most one full mafia member in the first list, plus quite probably the traitor (given the same assumptions about the second list being townie). So stated correctly, if he's counting the traitor as "not skum" then he ought to have said 1-3/8, not just 2 or 3/8. I think it's kind of a technicality.
Note: I'm not arguing in this post that anyone on the second list (besides faust) is conf!town, I'm just stating the assumptions that seem to have been present in Swan's reasoning when he made that statement.
Almost correct: if Galz was traitor, there would in fact be 2 scum, but it couldn't be "possible Traitor". Overall it's a weak point that just built up on top of the many many many others. I don't know, I recall Swan as someone who (eventually) understands setups better than this.
OK I absolutely love the giant score board Vote Count thing - I feel closer to Kurt Russle than I ever had before.I'm gonna let Datswan get back to us with this "fun stuff" he speaks of before I place a vote.
I have just a ton of fun stuff I would like to speak about. As I mentioned, I did not want to do so prior to Joth finalizing a target. I will get it out when I get back to a computer.
Obviously...
Vote: Joth
What are you referring to when you're quoting "possible Traitor" like that?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
vote: DatSwanDidn't you defend DatSwan earlier? What happened?
I wanted joth to pick someone else. I did say I would vote him over joth.vote: DatSwanDidn't you defend DatSwan earlier? What happened?
So what makes joth towny?I wanted joth to pick someone else. I did say I would vote him over joth.vote: DatSwanDidn't you defend DatSwan earlier? What happened?
I have a strong town read on him with no red flags. There are questions around DatSwan.So what makes joth towny?I wanted joth to pick someone else. I did say I would vote him over joth.vote: DatSwanDidn't you defend DatSwan earlier? What happened?
@joth, what was #747 for? You never bring me up again, you just go right back to Galz where you were...
At the end of all that, joth comes off as only mildly scummy, but scummier than I remember. In my most recent game with scum!joth, he did seem to get more active the more pressure was on his team, and I don't know what's more pressure-inducing than being a gladiator
@joth, what was #747 for? You never bring me up again, you just go right back to Galz where you were...
Well a bunch of stuff happened. You got all towny. Galz's promoter claim took away some of my case on you. At some point today I just decided to proceed on the assumption that you and Galz are both town, because it was starting to feel like I was maybe doing some misguided tunneling. Am I still a little worried I got played by one or both of you? You bet. But, we are where we are. If you're buddying, you're doing it well.
At the end of all that, joth comes off as only mildly scummy, but scummier than I remember. In my most recent game with scum!joth, he did seem to get more active the more pressure was on his team, and I don't know what's more pressure-inducing than being a gladiator
I think this is an astute observation, but a stretch that it's alignment indicative in the way you suggest. It turns out being a gladiator is extremely stressful. But wouldn't it be less stressful for scum? They know who's on their team (except the Traitor, but that's a small chance). In any event it's a lot of pressure either way and if I'm a person who gets more active under pressure, well, then there I am either way.
Can we kill Swan yet? This day is a mess and I want to sleep :P
I'm gonna let Datswan get back to us with this "fun stuff" he speaks of before I place a vote.
Can we kill Swan yet? This day is a mess and I want to sleep :PI'm gonna let Datswan get back to us with this "fun stuff" he speaks of before I place a vote.
Why are you in the shadows?I've had nothing to say. I offered for people to interrogate me:
Anyone want to ask me anything?Nobody took me up on it.
Why are you in the shadows?I've had nothing to say. I offered for people to interrogate me:Anyone want to ask me anything?Nobody took me up on it.
I slightly townread Joth for his posts as gladiator, but really I'm just waiting for Datswan at this point.
Well guess what? I tried talking all the time and telling others to do so. I was all "It's always best for everyone to say everything!" Earned me scum points. I tried making a case against a scum read: earned me scumpoints. So, if shutting up is actually pro town, I guess I better do that. I am the number 1 talk all the time proponent: I am also town and don't want to get lynched, so that's why I'm being quiet. Yes, I know I can't get lynched today. Then again, I've been quiet long enough. I think I undid the scumpoints day 1 me earned, so it's time to be pro town once more. MiX, I'm a fan of ADK's analysis post, it seems like a nice amalgamation of information on the lynch candidates and a pro town move. Care to elaborate on why you think it's not impartial?Why are you in the shadows?I've had nothing to say. I offered for people to interrogate me:Anyone want to ask me anything?Nobody took me up on it.
I slightly townread Joth for his posts as gladiator, but really I'm just waiting for Datswan at this point.
You should be proactive: reads don't fall from the sky. Also talking should make you easier to read: right now we basically only have your D1 posts. But it's a bit late to change that, the challenge will always speak louder than our individual actions for the rest of this day. I think.
Can someone wake up Swan?
reads don't fall from the sky.Except if they are townreads on joth!
Imagine how epic that would be.
Why are you in the shadows?I've had nothing to say. I offered for people to interrogate me:Anyone want to ask me anything?Nobody took me up on it.
I slightly townread Joth for his posts as gladiator, but really I'm just waiting for Datswan at this point.
You should be proactive: reads don't fall from the sky. Also talking should make you easier to read: right now we basically only have your D1 posts. But it's a bit late to change that, the challenge will always speak louder than our individual actions for the rest of this day. I think.
Can someone wake up Swan?
I'll get to this momentarily... I have to go buy an eye patch
I'll get to this momentarily... I have to go buy an eye patch
May I have this in my signature? I see other people with funny quotes in theirs all the time. Any procedure I go through first?
I'll get to this momentarily... I have to go buy an eye patch
May I have this in my signature? I see other people with funny quotes in theirs all the time. Any procedure I go through first?
I'll get to this momentarily... I have to go buy an eye patch
May I have this in my signature? I see other people with funny quotes in theirs all the time. Any procedure I go through first?
Imagine how epic that would be.
Really, really epic. But we don't need to think about it now, right?
Man, I thought I was done with joth when I got a really big townread on N1...now the IC's scumreading him...I feel useless. I'll put in effort I suppose.
Imagine how epic that would be.
Really, really epic. But we don't need to think about it now, right?
Man, I thought I was done with joth when I got a really big townread on N1...now the IC's scumreading him...I feel useless. I'll put in effort I suppose.
A common mistake is to think that ICs somehow magically have better reads than non-ICs. They do not.
Arguably an IC has worse reads since they have one less guaranteed Town member
Did I miss something? When did MiX become an IC? When he claimed VT?
Did I miss something? When did MiX become an IC? When he claimed VT?
Did I miss something? When did MiX become an IC? When he claimed VT?
He's honestly not. Because Galz outed himself as promoter to defend MiX, we can be nearly certain that if Galz is scum, MiX is also scum. Scum!Galz would have no reason to do that to protect town!Mix. But that doesn't cut both ways. Town!Galz could easily have come out in defense of scum!MiX if he strongly believed MiX was town.
Did I miss something? When did MiX become an IC? When he claimed VT?I was wondering that too.
Did I miss something? When did MiX become an IC? When he claimed VT?I was wondering that too.
If promoter is scum, I was either targeted (A) because MiX is town and scum thought I couldn’t resist challenging him, (B) because MiX is scum and scum thought I wouldn’t dare challenge him, or (C) because everyone has such a scumread on me that it doesn’t matter who I challenge because I’ll lose.
Anyway, MiX’s kicking in the door with shameless buddying feels consistent with B.
If promoter is town then I was obviously targeted by someone who thinks I’m scum and it’s basically also C.
So my best hope here is to seek a consensus target from town or else target MiX.
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.
You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?If DatSwan is the psychologist, he should have hinted somewhere about his result by now.
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?Lynching joth won't tell us if DatSwan is lying scum.
oh how silly of me I forgot the fun part...Why wait so long to claim and why go the trouble of making a wall post on joth if you knew you were going to claim? Nothing in that post makes a stronger argument for your survival than a credible claim of a town pr does.
I am the Town Aligned Psychologist
| jotheonah(2): | VS | DatSwan(5): |
| faust | MiX | |
| DatSwan | jotheonah | |
| EFHW | ||
| Glooble | ||
| chairs |
Also like, town-aligned psychologist is the only psychologist in the setup. And everyone claims town. So what a weird way to say that. Really emphasizing that town thing for no reason.
oh how silly of me I forgot the fun part...Why wait so long to claim and why go the trouble of making a wall post on joth if you knew you were going to claim? Nothing in that post makes a stronger argument for your survival than a credible claim of a town pr does.
I am the Town Aligned Psychologist
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?If DatSwan is the psychologist, he should have hinted somewhere about his result by now.
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?If DatSwan is the psychologist, he should have hinted somewhere about his result by now.
I thought about doing this.
If i had a “can kill” result i would of claimed it already, obviously.
I have triple checked... the result i get comes back prior to any other night actions. So the night 1 result is pure.
I can IC a player that is alive.
I think it is best that i wait until the end of the day to do that, regardless of the lynch.
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?If DatSwan is the psychologist, he should have hinted somewhere about his result by now.
I thought about doing this.
If i had a “can kill” result i would of claimed it already, obviously.
I have triple checked... the result i get comes back prior to any other night actions. So the night 1 result is pure.
I can IC a player that is alive.
I think it is best that i wait until the end of the day to do that, regardless of the lynch.
I can't possibly see the justification for waiting.
I would like to know if i should share my result from 3 players, in this order:
MiX
Galz
Faust
I can't possibly see the justification for waiting.
The way I see it, there's one psychologist and 3 scum that would totally claim psychologist if challenged. I would totally take those odds, but I'm gonna hold off my vote on the off chance the real psychologist claims, or to let Datswan say the results of N1 investigation.
I would like to know if i should share my result from 3 players, in this order:
MiX
Galz
Faust
Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.(or, might be, but for now I'm choosing to believe Galzria, which means there is)
Oh wait... checking back I think Godfather doesn't work against the Psychologist? Seems odd, but fine I guess.Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.(or, might be, but for now I'm choosing to believe Galzria, which means there is)
Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.
Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.
Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.
Godfather is hidden from Cop, not Psychologist, I believe.
Anyway the result of the investigation is not IC because there's a Godfather.
Godfather is hidden from Cop, not Psychologist, I believe.
ppe this
I would like to know if i should share my result from 3 players, in this order:
MiX
Galz
FaustI can't possibly see the justification for waiting.
2) Joth is def the Jester.
also before I jump and do it - faust, does the GF factor make a difference for you at all?No just fucking claim.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
So what did you think of his Jester claim?Not much? I think he would have done it as either alignment. I thought he was probably not the Lyncher for it.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
That’s on my list. So is #628,#629 & #632.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
That’s on my list. So is #628,#629 & #632.
Sorry, not #632 - I meant #634
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
That’s on my list. So is #628,#629 & #632.
Sorry, not #632 - I meant #634
Galz is literally the only player in this game that does not get to claim they did not read my Jester comment as sarcasm. Faust is close to it. I have barely played with MiX. Hint - it was sarcasm.
Why are you not claiming?
Why are you not claiming?
Ari? Okay...
When are you finished with your next big post?
Ari? Okay...
When are you finished with your next big post?
when you finish with your small annoying ones
Ari? Okay...
When are you finished with your next big post?
when you finish with your small annoying ones
too crass... I apologize. Just frustrated with the situation.
If someone could unvote me to avoid an early hammer that would be bitchin. If I am going down, then whatever, but I have some notes I want to compile and post before that happens.I think you have stalled the game just enough.
Faust, thoughts on 628/629/634?What do you think?
If Swan is scum, he doesn’t know if we’re top left or bottom right, which is consistent with those posts - and would also cause an unknown number of Bodyguards. If Swan is Psychologist, then he should’ve known that top left wasn’t an option, and that there could not be two bodyguards.
So - honest mistake or scum indicative inconsistency?
Faust, thoughts on 628/629/634?
If Swan is scum, he doesn’t know if we’re top left or bottom right, which is consistent with those posts - and would also cause an unknown number of Bodyguards. If Swan is Psychologist, then he should’ve known that top left wasn’t an option, and that there could not be two bodyguards.
So - honest mistake or scum indicative inconsistency?
Faust, thoughts on 628/629/634?What do you think?
If Swan is scum, he doesn’t know if we’re top left or bottom right, which is consistent with those posts - and would also cause an unknown number of Bodyguards. If Swan is Psychologist, then he should’ve known that top left wasn’t an option, and that there could not be two bodyguards.
So - honest mistake or scum indicative inconsistency?
Faust, thoughts on 628/629/634?What do you think?
If Swan is scum, he doesn’t know if we’re top left or bottom right, which is consistent with those posts - and would also cause an unknown number of Bodyguards. If Swan is Psychologist, then he should’ve known that top left wasn’t an option, and that there could not be two bodyguards.
So - honest mistake or scum indicative inconsistency?
The latter.
I don’t like lynching the only Psychologist claim though. Makes me really uncomfortable. But if he’s scum then the real Psychologist staying quiet here is 100% the correct play.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
So what did you think of his Jester claim?
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
So what did you think of his Jester claim?
Circling back to this, this is a big point I had marking Joth as scum - it’s a claim that discourages people from lynching him that he would know he could make without being countered - and he could judge reactions to try and guess at which town bloc was rolled - as there could potentially be upwards of four town players that knew this claim to be untrue.
This early D1 post is the final piece of the puzzle:2) Joth is def the Jester.
A Psychologist would know that there is no Jester.
So what did you think of his Jester claim?
Circling back to this, this is a big point I had marking Joth as scum - it’s a claim that discourages people from lynching him that he would know he could make without being countered - and he could judge reactions to try and guess at which town bloc was rolled - as there could potentially be upwards of four town players that knew this claim to be untrue.
You're hitting every point of why I thought he was scum D1. But Psychologist claim is just...soooo convenient. How would it be 4?
ok I am gonna leave yall to play with yourselves.
Mix - as you are tied for my primary push candidate, I would suggest you go re read some of my games.
Top picks for info IMO would be:
Skum - LOST Mafia
Town - Czech Mafia
What advantage is there in waiting?Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?If DatSwan is the psychologist, he should have hinted somewhere about his result by now.
I thought about doing this.
If i had a “can kill” result i would of claimed it already, obviously.
I have triple checked... the result i get comes back prior to any other night actions. So the night 1 result is pure.
I can IC a player that is alive.
I think it is best that i wait until the end of the day to do that, regardless of the lynch.
So now i copy paste whenever i claim anything but VT.Exhibit B: Psychologist would receive a result of "Cannot Kill" (I'm to lazy to quote the original post and trim it down, so have a regular quote)
Ari can't kill
Alright, waiting for space.I think it's fine to go ahead. Space can catch up during the night and it didn't seem like they had something they specifically wanted to say now and I think it's better to not give town more chances of accidentally revealing their roles.
Good night everyone! Boy I really hopd he's scum. I'll need to reread joth...again...like N1...but oh well.You won't need to reread joth if DatSwan flips scum. This seems like a possible scumslip if it's a town flip.
True. The chance that Swan and I are both scum is very small.Good night everyone! Boy I really hopd he's scum. I'll need to reread joth...again...like N1...but oh well.You won't need to reread joth if DatSwan flips scum. This seems like a possible scumslip if it's a town flip.
Good night everyone! Boy I really hopd he's scum. I'll need to reread joth...again...like N1...but oh well.You won't need to reread joth if DatSwan flips scum. This seems like a possible scumslip if it's a town flip.
Okay, I made up my mind.
Vote: DatSwan
Further discussion only serves to out the real Psychologist. The people around who have already claimed should finish this off. So Galzria, can I ask you to hammer?
What time zone are the mods in again?
| jotheonah(1): | VS | DatSwan(7): |
| DatSwan | jotheonah | |
| MiX | ||
| EFHW | ||
| Glooble | ||
| chairs | ||
| faust | ||
| arishipshape |
Not saying this is a good plan or that people should do it or not. Just teasing it out since I already claimed VT so it's safe for me to do so.
That you're an IC? Why?
MiX and Galz are probably town but neither of them is an IC.
It's probably mass claim time, but I didn't really bother to think about this, too busy celebrating! Yeeeeeeeeah swan's dead, woooooooo!
8-2, so we have a total of...2 possible mislynches? right? 4 ICs means we're 4-2 now...hmm...numbers are failing me. Ah, we have 6 ICs, so...we win?
Okay, let's take a look at what we know:
- faust is tracker, so IC
- joth is IC
- Galz is probably IC, and if he's not we'll figure it out soon enough (?)
- I'm totally IC, unless somone has a problem with this?
- Lynchee is IC, and they're still alive
- Psychologist is IC
- Vengeful Townie is IC
So that's like 7 of us! Hahahaha! Fear scum, for we have already won! Can anyone find great flaws in this? We basically have an overflow of ICs here!
PPE 2: Yeah, basically that, plus everyone should believe me here right?
Do we know that the lynchee knows they're lynchee? I kind of assumed they didn't.
Do we know that the lynchee knows they're lynchee? I kind of assumed they didn't.
Do we know that the lynchee knows they're lynchee? I kind of assumed they didn't.
Actually I just realized Psychologist claim on anyone who isn't conf!town ends the game right here and right now. That is, if Psychologist targetted someone N1 that isn't conf!town (or swan, I guess :P ), they should claim: this would give us...6 ICs? In total, which is enough.
Also, I only have a hunch on who Lynchee is, but I think it's a pretty strong one.
Actually I just realized Psychologist claim on anyone who isn't conf!town ends the game right here and right now. That is, if Psychologist targetted someone N1 that isn't conf!town (or swan, I guess :P ), they should claim: this would give us...6 ICs? In total, which is enough.
Also, I only have a hunch on who Lynchee is, but I think it's a pretty strong one.
How is speculating on the identity of the lynchee at all helpful?
Actually I just realized Psychologist claim on anyone who isn't conf!town ends the game right here and right now. That is, if Psychologist targetted someone N1 that isn't conf!town (or swan, I guess :P ), they should claim: this would give us...6 ICs? In total, which is enough.
Also, I only have a hunch on who Lynchee is, but I think it's a pretty strong one.
Actually I just realized Psychologist claim on anyone who isn't conf!town ends the game right here and right now. That is, if Psychologist targetted someone N1 that isn't conf!town (or swan, I guess :P ), they should claim: this would give us...6 ICs? In total, which is enough.
Also, I only have a hunch on who Lynchee is, but I think it's a pretty strong one.
Someone who a mild scum read has a strong hunch about =/= IC. Probably the worst use of "IC" I've ever seen.
MiX, you may as well share your hunch and your reasons for it. Not sure why you're holding back. If we agree with you that's useful PoE.
Vote Count 1.final
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302, MiXJoseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
Not voting (0):
With 14 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
MiX's continued attempts to will his way into IC status really bother me. Like, that is not a crazy thing for scum to be trying to do at this juncture. If we've all made it clear that PoE is the way we're gonna play this, scum wants to get eliminated from that list as definitively as possible.
What if MiX is scum and his whole lynchee thing is just a gambit to get him and his partner both on the quote-unquote IC list and the reason he's stalling with that info is because he wants to make sure he's really clear before he risks tying him and his partner together.
Glooble's case is...good!No it's terrible.
Vote: chairs
Glooble's case is...good!No it's terrible.
Vote: chairs
what about just the vengeful townie claiming? That claim is basically guaranteed an IC since, as I said before, if we have a counterclaim we just make whichever one we don't lynch promise to hammer the other one. Is that more or less useful than letting them stay hidden and getting a possible vig shot if and only if we mislynch them (and no value if they're nightkilled)? It seems more useful to me.
I feel like the Psychologist has largely outlived their usefulness and should probably claim. I mean unless all their targets are dead or something.That's so sad! Maybe I can enjoy retirement.
What do you mean? Isn't this my very reason for existing?
I'll just say who it is and if they are scum maybe there is some tiny chance the vengeful townie won't get outed.
Space can kill.
That's what I've been thinking. They'll be IC but won't get to use their power.
Well it was almost certainly better to wait for a Vengeful Townie claim, this is good news.No, it really isn't any different to wait or not wait.
Well it was almost certainly better to wait for a Vengeful Townie claim, this is good news.No, it really isn't any different to wait or not wait.
Would you claim as vengeful townie with no one else claiming? But, yeah, maybe.Well it was almost certainly better to wait for a Vengeful Townie claim, this is good news.No, it really isn't any different to wait or not wait.
If we had waited, and Space had claimed Vengeful Townie, and no one had counterclaimed, you wouldn't have had to claim and could get another result tomorrow night.
Would you claim as vengeful townie with no one else claiming? But, yeah, maybe.Well it was almost certainly better to wait for a Vengeful Townie claim, this is good news.No, it really isn't any different to wait or not wait.
If we had waited, and Space had claimed Vengeful Townie, and no one had counterclaimed, you wouldn't have had to claim and could get another result tomorrow night.
Who did you check N1?joth
Who did you check N1?joth
Who did you check N1?joth
Odds + scumreads should mean we catch scum today...but I guess not 100%.We'll catch scum if we just lynch Glooble.
Odds + scumreads should mean we catch scum today...but I guess not 100%.We'll catch scum if we just lynch Glooble.
Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
No. We're doing this for the scenario where Galz is scum Promoter. In this the only other scum is a Traitor, so EFHW's result on you is irrelevant.Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
Do I count?
No. We're doing this for the scenario where Galz is scum Promoter. In this the only other scum is a Traitor, so EFHW's result on you is irrelevant.Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
Do I count?
No. We're doing this for the scenario where Galz is scum Promoter. In this the only other scum is a Traitor, so EFHW's result on you is irrelevant.Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
Do I count?
No. We're doing this for the scenario where Galz is scum Promoter. In this the only other scum is a Traitor, so EFHW's result on you is irrelevant.Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
Do I count?
So this is a scenario, I, as a Traitor who knows the identity of the scum team, decides to challenge DatSwan with zero pressure or reason to do so? Come on.
No. We're doing this for the scenario where Galz is scum Promoter. In this the only other scum is a Traitor, so EFHW's result on you is irrelevant.Anyway I think before we lynch anyone the actual ICs should decide who Galzria should target.
Do I count?
I would assume Galz could be Traitor...
Hmmm. So this is a scenario where Galz, as traitor, claims town promoter to signal his identity to his team (since they know there's no town promoter). That's actually... I hadn't thought of that. It's kind of brilliant. I mean, what better way to let them know? Of course, if I had chosen the promoter instead of the Goon, he'd be in a lot of trouble today.
Sorry, just getting here then leaving again. Been busy at the end of the semester, then wasn't around when the lynch of Datswan happened, need to reread stuff but don't have the time and energy, so basically I'll probably not reread the whole thread.
No, scum promoter can safely fakeclaim town promoter since there's no one to counterclaim them. And how would we go about "forcing" a promoter claim?
They would get lynched once Traitor flips. Vice-versa if Traitor's the one who claims. To answer your question: I am not Promoter, if this wasn't obvious. I somewhat encourage everyone to do the same but I doubt people will
I'd like to hear faust's case on Glooble.
Sorry, just getting here then leaving again. Been busy at the end of the semester, then wasn't around when the lynch of Datswan happened, need to reread stuff but don't have the time and energy, so basically I'll probably not reread the whole thread.
Yes, but are you or are you not the Vengeful Townie?
vote: Glooble
MiX is simply the best lynch for today. Because if he’s scum, then we caught scum, and if he’s town Galz becomes a true IC. Well, nearly a true IC. I seriously doubt scum!promoter Galz claims to save town!Mix, but I guess it’s possible he’d do it just as a gambit to throw us off the trail.
MiX is simply the best lynch for today. Because if he’s scum, then we caught scum, and if he’s town Galz becomes a true IC. Well, nearly a true IC. I seriously doubt scum!promoter Galz claims to save town!Mix, but I guess it’s possible he’d do it just as a gambit to throw us off the trail.
Are you actually scumreading mix, though?
You do know everyone that flips promoter is an instant win, right?
FoS: Glooble, L-?
Yes, I'm the vengeful townie. I'm so disappointed that gkrieg hasn't tried to get me lynched again this game, because it had seemed like the perfect role for me given my history.
While I didn't breadcrumb the role explicitly, my question about Lyncher Doctor in D1 were motivated by the fact that I knew that role had to appear in this game, because it was in the same bucket as mine.
Also, why is chairs not on any lynch pool?
What part of this is confusing to people? I feel like I’m not expressing myself well.
What part of this is confusing to people? I feel like I’m not expressing myself well.
Your plan is only perfect if there were 4 people in the bigger lynch pool: then we could afford to lynch them all. We have exactly 2 possible mislynches, but 5 people on lynch pool, which means we can't just lynch people based on "what if Galz is actually scum?", we cannot waste time killing town.
What part of this is confusing to people? I feel like I’m not expressing myself well.
Your plan is only perfect if there were 4 people in the bigger lynch pool: then we could afford to lynch them all. We have exactly 2 possible mislynches, but 5 people on lynch pool, which means we can't just lynch people based on "what if Galz is actually scum?", we cannot waste time killing town.
Which is the beauty of you being in both lynch pools. Lynching you now maximizes or chances.
Someone please give me a case for MiX being town that doesn’t rely on Galz being town.
vote: MiX
I 100% agree with everything my twin is saying.
vote: MiX
I 100% agree with everything my twin is saying.
Here's the thing: pushing mix is exactly what scum!glooble needs to do right at this moment. There's a very small pool of people that are still viable lynches, and mix and galz are teetering at the edge of that pool.
Glooble's posts here are very consistent with the idea that he's putting everything he has into getting one of them lynched while he still can; then if he goes down tomorrow, his other partner (gkrieg or chairs) would hopefully make it through lylo.
I think this is just caught scum being desperate.
vote: glooble
What happened with this? It seems like Glooble has done a complete 180.Vote Count 1.final
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302, MiXJoseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
Not voting (0):
With 14 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
vote:chairs
It seems likely that at the end of day 1 when the main two lynch options were joth and Joseph, there would be at least one scum on each. That would make either chairs or MiX scum. And I really do think MiX is likely town.
What information do we get if MiX flips town? If he flips scum? It seems to me that we'll still have inconclusive suppositions.
What information do we get if MiX flips town? If he flips scum? It seems to me that we'll still have inconclusive suppositions.
The lynch should probably get a say as well, since if they flip town they'll be an IC.I'm planning to lynch scum today.
The lynch should probably get a say as well, since if they flip town they'll be an IC.I'm planning to lynch scum today.
I'd like to hear faust's case on Glooble.I'm feeling it.
MiX and Galz are playing all of you and I hope when I flip town you will see that.I have to say that upon further consideration I regret not having tracked one of them. I think the way the game was going had me overconfident and not thinking enough.
For what iits worth I agree that ADK is towny, so if MiX’s partner isn’t Galz it’s probably chairs or Gkrieg. So you should be okay even if you mislynch me. I just feel bad about costing town what could have been a perfect game.vote: Glooble
Hey, same! Up top!
Seriously, think about it from my perspective: who would push for my lynch the way you're doing?
And I’m having a very difficult time seeing a scenario where you’re town. So what would you do in my position? Imagine you’ve been scumreading someone all game and suddenly they’re pushing for a lynch pool that inexplicably doesn’t include them?
- Someone else is lynched, they flip town:
-- 4 people remaining, 1 mislynch left. The odds of lynching scum in the next two lynches are...50%, if there's only 1. And if there's 2, the odds of lynching both of them in 3 lynches is...50%. Again, PRs help.
I'm so disappointed Space wasn't scum.
We would never lynch Galz before the other scum flips. Thus our lynch pool would be 4 people. If Galz is scum, it would be the first scenario, which states "if there's only 1 (scum)". Not clear I suppose, apologies.
We would never lynch Galz before the other scum flips. Thus our lynch pool would be 4 people. If Galz is scum, it would be the first scenario, which states "if there's only 1 (scum)". Not clear I suppose, apologies.
You’re discounting the value of actually having a living Galz as an IC.
Why does scum!Galz fakeclaiming here save MiX?
Why did scum!promoter MiX pick joth, who is talking about challenging MiX?
To me, it looked like he was scumreading how joth was playing as gladiator, and wanted to use the weight of his being promoter to emphasize his points.Why does scum!Galz fakeclaiming here save MiX?
It saves himself, he was going to be the other person to be challenged after me.
Bleh. Now I'm starting to think MiX really is town.At the beginning of the day you said you really thought MiX was town. And you made a case against chairs. What happened?
Bleh. Now I'm starting to think MiX really is town.At the beginning of the day you said you really thought MiX was town. And you made a case against chairs. What happened?
Any chance we lynch neither MiX nor Glooble today?
I continue to townread Glooble. And I’m not sure he has ever fooled me as scum. I know him as well as I know anybody and I don’t think he’s scum.
The scum!Galz theory is clever and satisfying. Those kinds of theories are almost never true.
...
**Scum!Galz is putting all his eggs in one basket, because if MiX gets lynched anyway, galz's fakeclaim is also revealed and they both go down. No way. I don't believe he would do that.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?
I mean I’ll be capt obvious here:
Given the size of the game, if there is a town promoter, on Night 1 they could either:
1) target themselves and another the next day. 1 town, 1 unknown. This assuredly ends in them claiming meaning the other player is x/11 chance of skum.
2) If there is no promoter, we as town lynch someone tomorrow who has... an x/12 chance of being skum... but we get to decide collectively.
All in all i think promoter is neg utility to exist at all because it forces isolation to 2 people the next day instead of people getting to pick who they focus on from the group - so it limits discussion.
I mean talked to death at this point. I don’t think the claim makes any sense, and we will know tomorrow if a promoter exists or not.
You already know that one exists. You just don’t know if they are scum or town.
Right but i don’t think anyone is arguing the negative utility of the skum version.
My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.I don't think that kind of reasoning is fruitful. Scum have taken the side that they believe is the correct play. It does not pay off for them to lie about this stuff. What I will say is that scum probably happily engaged in all this setup talk that brings us nowhere.
I disagree.
Could be a middle ground - if skum has the promoter they would know there is no town promoter. So, fairly easy day 1 plan could be to start the convo to “waste time”, knowing there will be no claim, and then tomorrow come out with “I’m the town promoter and targeted this person”.
They could even parlay that tomorrow if they got suspected, which would inevitably force a claim. If they already know A-D is in play, they would want to get rid of as many from B-D as they could so that could be a plan.
Side note - that is a super reach theory in detail, but the initial premise is something that should be remembered going forward.
Getting my posts together, but I do want to say that I both agree and disagree with Galz on the MCMC thing:
MCMC for sure does tunnel early days... but like... changes lanes a lot too, if that makes sense? From what I have played with them they will normally find a few spots to tunnel fairly hard, not just one, but they will really really push them.
That being said, I have found they do it as both skum and town - So, IDK if there is anything to be taken from it or not.
I do not think pursuing MCMC based on this idea would be a great use of our time.
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?
Regarding the MiX Wagon:
I think that the only skum narrative for bringing up or supporting the Town Promoter Claim is if Skum knows they have the Promoter, and not Town.
I think there is a chance that skum would of brought up the claim in that instance, as it would both take time away from the early day and it would leave everyone wondering which promoter exists - the skum one not claiming, or the mafia one staying silent (or skum could fake claim somewhat safely in that situation, but I find that less likely).
I think there is a chance that skum knows there is a Town Promoter, and used the engage to attempt to isolate a kill selection based on PRs.
I do not think that it is likely that a Town player would pursue the claim of the Promoter to a great extent, especially to the point of actually claiming something. They could do it as Goon though.
All of this has me looking at ADK and MiX. Given how popular the MiX wagon is this early on Day 1... It kind of has me leaning "not MiX" right now.
I am going to read ADK back, but for now:
Vote: ADK
And I’m having a very difficult time seeing a scenario where you’re town. So what would you do in my position? Imagine you’ve been scumreading someone all game and suddenly they’re pushing for a lynch pool that inexplicably doesn’t include them?I can't think of any situation where I would push for a lynchpool that includes me...
Getting my posts together, but I do want to say that I both agree and disagree with Galz on the MCMC thing:
MCMC for sure does tunnel early days... but like... changes lanes a lot too, if that makes sense? From what I have played with them they will normally find a few spots to tunnel fairly hard, not just one, but they will really really push them.
That being said, I have found they do it as both skum and town - So, IDK if there is anything to be taken from it or not.
I do not think pursuing MCMC based on this idea would be a great use of our time.
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?
Very hedgy on mcmcsalot.
But that's not how we get more company!Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitorVote: Joseph
Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.
Happy to have someone else keep me company on the Joseph wagon. Sadly, I do think there's a pretty high chance Joseph's just being unobservant instead of explicitly scumslipping.
You also don’t get more company by pushing bad cases & making bad/unexplained votes.
sure you do - you just get bad company
Getting my posts together, but I do want to say that I both agree and disagree with Galz on the MCMC thing:
MCMC for sure does tunnel early days... but like... changes lanes a lot too, if that makes sense? From what I have played with them they will normally find a few spots to tunnel fairly hard, not just one, but they will really really push them.
That being said, I have found they do it as both skum and town - So, IDK if there is anything to be taken from it or not.
I do not think pursuing MCMC based on this idea would be a great use of our time.
@EFHW - Is Galz more skummy than MiX is towny to you?
Very hedgy on mcmcsalot.
Why would this be useful now? We know he's scum already.
Okay, I do this every game, so I suppose I need to keep up the tradition: helps me as every alignment so it can't go wrong. I know that we don't want to give too much information to scum, so I'll keep it succint.
arishipshape: I'm not lynching him.
DatSwan: No one is lynching him.
chairs: Consistent. That's all I can say about him. No one is lynching him.
joth: Jokes a lot, focused a bunch of me, ari and ADK. Does almost nothing other than interact with us three. Scum.
MiX: Town. Seriously discourage this lynch, better people to focus.
ADK: Talks a lot about promoter given he's the one that brought it up. faust's case makes sense but I don't think traitor would do that: I would suspect scum would give traitor a way to claim, this way there would be communication (for all scum know ADK's not traitor, maybe someone else signaled better, who knows, I've never played with traitor). My previous townread on him is failing, not sure where he's positioned in my reads anymore. Would lynch.
gkrieg: No one is lynching him.
mcmc: I have no idea. "Not town!mcmc" is probably how I would describe him. His logic seems to make sense sometimes so not exactly my favourite here. Would lynch.
Glooble: Town. Oops. Unvote, sorry about that. I still think voting there was justified, but I clearly needed to re-reread Glooble to get a better read.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
faust: No one is lynching him.
Joseph: Different. I need to reread the game I played with him to see just how different. I'm not lynching him.
Space: Town, as I've said.
EFHW: No one is lynching her.
Overall, I think mcmc, ADK or joth are the scummiest bunch from the people I actually want to lynch today. Of those;
Vote: joth, almost no content, a lot of it is focused on players he doesn't know, too many jokes for my taste, all in all does not seem to be helping town. Maybe I just can't read him, but he still looks like the scummiest of them all. I'll try to make a case on him just to rectify if he's this scummy or not.
PPE all the way from gkrieg's infinity posts, including mine.
If you did not open this with "I do this regardless of alignment" I would say this is the skummiest thing you have posted all game.
To the players still on MiX, I would like to point out it would be unlikely for a skum player as the leading wagon to write up this list that specifically isolates such a small amount of players.
For that and other sorted reasons I really do no want to lynch MiX today. That being said I was also their number 1 defense in the last game I played with them and MiX played me like a pooch as SK - so take my opinion as you will I guess.
Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.
How can you know whether or not someone if bussing if you don't know who their partners are?
I believe MiX is saying "since I know I am Town, Galz can't be bussing"... as Galz only vote to my knowledge was on MiX.
One thing is certain - if we were to lynch among Galzria/MiX today, I would strongly advocate for Galzria.
Any chance we lynch neither MiX nor Glooble today?I hate this reasoning. I'm literally coming from a game where I pushed for a shraeye lynch against the expressed advice of town!raerae, and he flipped scum. Knowing a person better doesn't necessarily make you better at reading them, because they also know you better and can play you.
I continue to townread Glooble. And I’m not sure he has ever fooled me as scum. I know him as well as I know anybody and I don’t think he’s scum.
So t he lynch choices seem to be {mix, ADK, joth}
My preferences would be ADK > joth >> MiX
But I want to Vote: joth for now, as that puts them in a tie with MiX. Probably most likely wagon other than the stubborn people on MiX
Yes but it wasn't worth talking about until PRs were outed. ADK is the most likely candidate, out of the rest he expressedly defended gkrieg and chairs and gave a non-scumread on joth. ADK is most likely the lynchee.So t he lynch choices seem to be {mix, ADK, joth}
My preferences would be ADK > joth >> MiX
But I want to Vote: joth for now, as that puts them in a tie with MiX. Probably most likely wagon other than the stubborn people on MiX
Did people ever try to figure out who Joseph was trying to lynch? It certainly wasn't MiX.
Sooo joth 4/Joseph 4? That would still make joth the lynch? I strongly dislike that. I will go back to MiX to avoid a joth lynch.
false (I think) You put Joseph at 4 last and neither I think have been higher that that? So that would mean Joseph lynch I believe. I mean we have 2 hours still, but as of now, that is what I understand.
wrong. I am false, you are correct. just re read it.
anyone else wanna jump over to Joseph?
So t he lynch choices seem to be {mix, ADK, joth}
My preferences would be ADK > joth >> MiX
But I want to Vote: joth for now, as that puts them in a tie with MiX. Probably most likely wagon other than the stubborn people on MiX
Did people ever try to figure out who Joseph was trying to lynch? It certainly wasn't MiX.
One thing is certain - if we were to lynch among Galzria/MiX today, I would strongly advocate for Galzria.
One thing is certain - if we were to lynch among Galzria/MiX today, I would strongly advocate for Galzria.
I don't see a scenario where Galz is scum and his partner is anyone other than MiX.
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
We only have to lynch two of them. If we hit town both times, the other one's clear because ... who's their partner?
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
We only have to lynch two of them. If we hit town both times, the other one's clear because ... who's their partner?
Could be MiX. MiX being town exonerates Galz, it doesn't work the other way around.
Not sure if it changes anything but we can't no lynch
I don't buy the narrative that Galz can only be scum with MiX, so I don't think there's a point in favor of a MiX lynch there.
I don't buy the narrative that Galz can only be scum with MiX, so I don't think there's a point in favor of a MiX lynch there.
I also don't buy the narrative that MiX can only be scum with Galz. Wait...
Anyway my voice doesn't matter here: you can lynch me, but obviously from my perspective that'll be a complete waste of time. I like a gkrieg lynch more than anything at this point.
I don't buy the narrative that Galz can only be scum with MiX, so I don't think there's a point in favor of a MiX lynch there.
I also don't buy the narrative that MiX can only be scum with Galz. Wait...
Anyway my voice doesn't matter here: you can lynch me, but obviously from my perspective that'll be a complete waste of time. I like a gkrieg lynch more than anything at this point.
really??? why gkrieg? he reads hella townie to me
Ok faust, so why does scum!promoter Galz claim when he does?So he doesn't get challenged, and for general towncred. I find it less likely that Galz would tie himself to a partner like that this early.
I don't buy the narrative that Galz can only be scum with MiX, so I don't think there's a point in favor of a MiX lynch there.
I also don't buy the narrative that MiX can only be scum with Galz. Wait...
Anyway my voice doesn't matter here: you can lynch me, but obviously from my perspective that'll be a complete waste of time. I like a gkrieg lynch more than anything at this point.
really??? why gkrieg? he reads hella townie to me
Hmmmmmm why? I also have a feeling scum is more likely to reread Swan and check EVERYTHING, even things about dead players. Also it's either that or chairs (I like Glooble's """case""" on me) and that just feels like lynching a lurker.
Exactly.Ok faust, so why does scum!promoter Galz claim when he does?So he doesn't get challenged, and for general towncred. I find it less likely that Galz would tie himself to a partner like that this early.
Galzria, who will you be challenging?*promoting
Do we lynch Galzria? It means we get a normal day tomorrow.
Do we lynch Galzria? It means we get a normal day tomorrow.
No, we'll always get a normal day tomorrow. I mean, we'll have 4 people in our lynch pool, picking between 2 isn't that bad. We should absolutely not lynch Galzria.
Do we lynch Galzria? It means we get a normal day tomorrow.
No, we'll always get a normal day tomorrow. I mean, we'll have 4 people in our lynch pool, picking between 2 isn't that bad. We should absolutely not lynch Galzria.
Wow, strong words. Why absolutely not?
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
Do we lynch Galzria? It means we get a normal day tomorrow.
No, we'll always get a normal day tomorrow. I mean, we'll have 4 people in our lynch pool, picking between 2 isn't that bad. We should absolutely not lynch Galzria.
Wow, strong words. Why absolutely not?
Because if we simply lynch from the normal lynch pool, when scum flips it'll be obvious if Galz is scum or not.
I don't buy the narrative that Galz can only be scum with MiX, so I don't think there's a point in favor of a MiX lynch there.
I also don't buy the narrative that MiX can only be scum with Galz. Wait...
Anyway my voice doesn't matter here: you can lynch me, but obviously from my perspective that'll be a complete waste of time. I like a gkrieg lynch more than anything at this point.
really??? why gkrieg? he reads hella townie to me
Hmmmmmm why? I also have a feeling scum is more likely to reread Swan and check EVERYTHING, even things about dead players. Also it's either that or chairs (I like Glooble's """case""" on me) and that just feels like lynching a lurker.
So, first of all, sorry for all the anti-town crap I pulled to survive yesterday. Not exactly proud of it. Second of all, setup is such a mess I don't think there's much to talk about it yet, since I'm pretty sure we don't want claims. Third of all, good job lynching Joseph.
I would also like to take full credit for making joth, the towniest man alive, look like the scummiest man alive, enough for promoter to target him. Hopefully it was scum promoter, given that I have no idea who would target joth as town promoter here...
mcmc was town? Okay. The scummiest person right now is probably...Swan? Not sure I can even pick 3 players to be scum without thinking "no, this guy's obviously town..."
Is that all? I didn't get a lot of good reads, just the town!joth one.
Are you saying you wanted him to look scummy?
No, it wasn't intentional...I'm not that crazy. I just like how it "worked", in a way. I saw that joth's posts are way, WAY bigger when he's scum, and in this game he hasn't made one of those yet. That and he's actually scumhunting and following his townmeta and whatnot.MiX! I was all set to not target you but that post makes me want to target you! Can you prove that fighting with me was a gambit? Is there a breadcrumb?
Answer's above, I just wanted to quote this to say...how can I breadcrumb a gambit? Then again I have no idea how to breadcrumb, so...
Ok, but you have to realize how this looks...
How what looks? For me, you being gladiator means you're town, and I'm extremely happy that I got this information, because I started the night thinking you're scum. The only problem here is I have too many townreads.
I'll get to analyzing the D1 votes, I guess I only have 3 days to do that...I usually like to take my time, but I guess it'll have to be rushed.
Let's face it, if it was (A) scum would have been smarter to target me. You voted for several people yesterday and seemed willing to move your vote to get a lynch. I parked my vote on MiX and kept trying to corall people back to him.
OTOH, I seem to have an uncanny ability to not be remembered by anyone.
Let's face it, if it was (A) scum would have been smarter to target me. You voted for several people yesterday and seemed willing to move your vote to get a lynch. I parked my vote on MiX and kept trying to corall people back to him.
OTOH, I seem to have an uncanny ability to not be remembered by anyone.
I think scum would have targeted a lurker.
I would not vote MiX if he were challenged, as he has said something today that basically proves he’s town.
My problem with what Joth is doing here is that he’s essentially out sourcing to find out who he can beat. He’s not looking to choose the player he most likely thinks is scum (something town would be aiming for) but is instead trying to figure out which player he can win against. This is an incredibly scummy approach. If Joth is town, his concern should be putting scum into a 50/50 and then arguing why we should lynch the other person - not petitioning to find out who he can challenge and win against (which gives him the right to cherry pick town players as scum).
Ok faust, so why does scum!promoter Galz claim when he does?
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
The overall post is a really big stretch to scumread ICs. Yeah, I want Swan to claim here.
Vote: Swan
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
Just separating the traitor out. Technically it is 3/8 either way.
Hold on, I just saw a contradiction here. It is impossible for the Traitor to lie there AND to be 2 scum there. I believe this mistake comes more from scum that absolutely know there IS no Traitor. How do you explain this Swan?Swan’s “Mistakes” read a lot like scum trying to sow confusion because town is too close to figuring it all out.I think scum doesn't do that often.
Do you think Swan's getting everything about the setup wrong as town? Because that would be according to his meta for sure, something scum!Swan would love to do as well.
Works for me
vote: datswan
Intent to vote swan. On mobile don’t want to accidental hammer will check back tomorrow
1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
The overall post is a really big stretch to scumread ICs. Yeah, I want Swan to claim here.
Vote: Swan
This doesn't seem like newbie scum to me. Is this how he was in his first scum game? Pushing his partner hard?
I’m a big fan of the guy read but that came off as floundering to me. Floundering why? Good question.
Firmly in vote: datswan territory now
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
This is true unless you aren't the lynchee. And if MiX isn't scum. I need to reread to figure out why galz and MiX are tied to each other.
Let's face it, if it was (A) scum would have been smarter to target me. You voted for several people yesterday and seemed willing to move your vote to get a lynch. I parked my vote on MiX and kept trying to corall people back to him.
OTOH, I seem to have an uncanny ability to not be remembered by anyone.
I think scum would have targeted a lurker.
No, that would be too obvious. Joth was the best pick to ensure it made sense from a town!promoter perspective.
vote: Glooble
chairs is townier than Glooble, ADK is scummy for leaving the Datswan wagon when it stalled for a split second, but probably the lynchee, so whatever.
MiX just looks like he is town. I don't think newbie scum goes so hard for their partner.
Galz's claim is pretty townie, although him being town means that joth could still be scum, although I don't think it is likely at all that joth would challenge his partner as scum.
IDK, probable glooble partner is either chairs or ADK?
Is the right play here to lynch joth, then if DatSwan is lying scum, have the real psychologist claim tomorrow, and we lynch DatSwan then?
This is very scummy though.
Every post MiX makes, makes me want to vote him though. Nothing about his posts reads genuine to me. They all feel super faked in a “Yeah, go team!” sort of way that nobody actually ever talks like.
Vote: Glooble
Someone make me stop voting.
Vote: Glooble
Someone make me stop voting.
I think that was the hammer
galz, me, EFHW, chairs, gkrieg, mix. That's six.
Hope we caught scum
Either way I don’t think I have anything useful left to say. I’ve made me reads and my feelings pretty clear so hopefully ya’ll make the right decisions from here on out.
I’m sorry if my tunneling on MiX ends up costing town the game.
Ok faust, so why does scum!promoter Galz claim when he does?
This is a ridiculously overlooked point:
Scum!Promoter Galz CAN’T claim to save Traitor!MiX because Scum!Promoter!Galz wouldn’t know that MiX was Traitor. The ONLY viable argument is that I’m Traitor & MiX is Promoter - which aside from being inaccurate, simply doesn’t make any logical sense if you look at him or me D1/D2.
Seriously? MiX oopshammered Glooble? Let's 100% lynch MiX tomorrow.
Seriously? MiX oopshammered Glooble? Let's 100% lynch MiX tomorrow.
I had no idea that many people were already voting for Glooble.Seriously? MiX oopshammered Glooble? Let's 100% lynch MiX tomorrow.
Honestly, I find gkrieg's unannounced L-1 scummier
Any IC who’s online should name a target for Galz.chairs
Galz, target MiX.If Glooble flips town, I agree. Otherwise, well I guess it doesn't matter that much, but gkrieg is a decent choice.
Faust, what do I possibly gain from lying at this point?Rob us the chance to start speculation on your partner. It's a fairly standard scum strategy to pretend to be town during twilight.
So, let's get this straight: it's almost always gkrieg/chairs here. Right? So why bother with the promotion? I'm only waiting in case EFHW gor a good result, otherwise it's killing timeMy result was inconclusive.
Gkrieg, chairs, anything you want to add?
Faust said he should target gkrieg. That didn't change, right?
Faust said he should target gkrieg. That didn't change, right?
Faust said he was going to track me or that galz should target me?
So, let's get this straight: it's almost always gkrieg/chairs here. Right? So why bother with the promotion? I'm only waiting in case EFHW gor a good result, otherwise it's killing timeMy result was inconclusive.
Gkrieg, chairs, anything you want to add?
Galz targeted MiX. That's townpoints, but could also be part of the gambit. I assume Galz made that choice because I asked, but also -- Galz, are you scumreading MiX currently?If rhe gambit, then it would be scum!MiX promoting himself, right?
Targeted chairs.
Also gkrieg's L-1 vote on Glooble is hella scummy.
Not this game: I think I paid attention solely on D2. Just look at all of my D3, was I calculating?
Galz targeted MiX. That's townpoints, but could also be part of the gambit. I assume Galz made that choice because I asked, but also -- Galz, are you scumreading MiX currently?
No, you don't. Just watch when gkrieg or chairs flip scum and it exonorates Galz. Then we lynch the other one and BAM easy win. No need to do another mislynch.
Also gkrieg's L-1 vote on Glooble is hella scummy. I also like how chairs was behind him, not obvious at all...Targeted chairs.
Good.
Challenge: gkrieg, not official because who needs the full day anyway?
I forgot you were tracked, the final vote on Glooble is scummy enough, L-1's scummy because you were paying attention to things and it's townier than my hammer because I'm town. Ew, my case on you is bad.
Vote: chairs
I forgot you were tracked, the final vote on Glooble is scummy enough, L-1's scummy because you were paying attention to things and it's townier than my hammer because I'm town. Ew, my case on you is bad.
Vote: chairs
How was I paying attention to things?
Sorry I disappeared at the end of D3! I had such an awesome weekend of music things and people-hosting that I kind of failed to check in at all until after the hammer...I'm starting to get jealous of your awesome social life!
Sorry I disappeared at the end of D3! I had such an awesome weekend of music things and people-hosting that I kind of failed to check in at all until after the hammer...I'm starting to get jealous of your awesome social life!
Here’s the thing: chairs and gkrieg are acting nothing like I would expect scum to be acting at this point in this situation. MiX has been acting exactly how I’d expect scum to act. That’s why o want to lynch him. I’ll take reads over PoE any day of the week.
Living players: chairs, jotheonah, MiX, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
ICs: Space, EFHW
Almost IC: joth, ADK?
Town unless they aren’t: MiX, Galz
Probably scum: chairs, gkrieg
That’s kinda where I am. Thoughts?
Here’s the thing: chairs and gkrieg are acting nothing like I would expect scum to be acting at this point in this situation. MiX has been acting exactly how I’d expect scum to act. That’s why o want to lynch him. I’ll take reads over PoE any day of the week.
Okay, but recall that town!MiX also acts like people expect scum to act. The real question here is whether scum!MiX is more likely than town!MiX to be behaving that way.
Why is ADK almost IC?
I'd take POE over reads most days.
Here’s the thing: chairs and gkrieg are acting nothing like I would expect scum to be acting at this point in this situation. MiX has been acting exactly how I’d expect scum to act. That’s why o want to lynch him. I’ll take reads over PoE any day of the week.
Okay, but recall that town!MiX also acts like people expect scum to act. The real question here is whether scum!MiX is more likely than town!MiX to be behaving that way.
MiX’s setup talk early D1/D2 don’t feel like they come from scum that knows the setup - and yes, that can certainly be faked, but it’s difficult to do so fully and consistently at the level he did. That said, there is nobody in the game right now who’s posts gut read scum more than MiX’sthe past two game days. Nothing feels genuine about their posts, and I just struggle to take them seriously, which doesn’t feel like a town trait here.
Galz/mix is crazy talk; PoE says it's gkrieg/chairs. I'm cool if MiX challenges either of them.Same
Galz/mix is crazy talk; PoE says it's gkrieg/chairs. I'm cool if MiX challenges either of them.
Galz/mix is crazy talk; PoE says it's gkrieg/chairs. I'm cool if MiX challenges either of them.
Except I know it’s not me so my best guess is maybe chairs and ADK?
Looks like an interesting day to me, what do you think, Uncleeurope?
So basically mix is challenging gkrieg or myself? Ok.
Scum to chum in that group is gkrieg, mix, myself. I would vote gkrieg over mix and obviously either over myself since I know I’m town.
I’ve attempted to limit my posting to when I had something to say rather than posting to post - a lot of posts are seen as towny but I’ve been thinking about that lately and I think -meaningful- posts are more relevant - if there’s no meat in your post is it anything more than a waste of characters?
We’re like halfway to Mix’s deadline
We’re like halfway to Mix’s deadline
Fun. Do you prefer gkrieg or chairs?
Uhuh. Uhuh. What if you were town?
| MiX (1): | VS | chairs (2): |
| jotheonah | MiX | |
| EFHW | ||
Neat. Could hammer. One IC on each.
Joth, as you’re IC & scum reading MiX:
How strongly do you think ADK is town?
There are essentially 4 people that can possibly be scum: ADK/Gkrieg/MiX/Chairs. If ADK is town, then we win. Even if we’re wrong today, then scum can only be the final two. Glooble thought ADK was the Lynchee:
EFHW, Space & Joth: Can each of you reread & confirm your own belief that this is most likely true?
Also for you three: if Chairs is scum, A) Does scum!MiX challenge him here? B) How quickly would his partner jump on him over MiX?
Neat. Could hammer. One IC on each.
Joth, as you’re IC & scum reading MiX:
How strongly do you think ADK is town?
There are essentially 4 people that can possibly be scum: ADK/Gkrieg/MiX/Chairs. If ADK is town, then we win. Even if we’re wrong today, then scum can only be the final two. Glooble thought ADK was the Lynchee:
EFHW, Space & Joth: Can each of you reread & confirm your own belief that this is most likely true?
Also for you three: if Chairs is scum, A) Does scum!MiX challenge him here? B) How quickly would his partner jump on him over MiX?
unvote
I want all the ICs to weigh in here.
Scum!MiX would not challenge scum!chairs.
Scum!chairs' partner would bus. Maybe in a hedgy way.unvote
I want all the ICs to weigh in here.
My brain's a little dead rn Galz, so help me parse this: If [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] is scum and ADK is town, then scum's only hope is to get ADK mislynched, so [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be pushing back against the townread on ADK.
But if ADK is scum, then the townread is a godsend and scum would love to lock it in.
This makes a lot of sense. And if this were a normal day it would be a great time to start an ADK wagon, but of course our choice is now between MiX and chairs, whether we like it or not. So the question is, does the ADK question affect the MiX/chairs question. Is one of them more or less likely to be ADK's partner?
If you accept I'm town, the ADK question doesn't matter. That's literally my gameplan here.
If chairs/gkrieg is the scum team then they’ve literally given up. They’re doing nothing to fight the inevitable.
My brain's a little dead rn Galz, so help me parse this: If [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] is scum and ADK is town, then scum's only hope is to get ADK mislynched, so [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be pushing back against the townread on ADK.
But if ADK is scum, then the townread is a godsend and scum would love to lock it in.
This makes a lot of sense. And if this were a normal day it would be a great time to start an ADK wagon, but of course our choice is now between MiX and chairs, whether we like it or not. So the question is, does the ADK question affect the MiX/chairs question. Is one of them more or less likely to be ADK's partner?
This is exactly where I’m at, yes, and would like to at least consider closer before making a MiX/Chairs decision.
My brain's a little dead rn Galz, so help me parse this: If [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] is scum and ADK is town, then scum's only hope is to get ADK mislynched, so [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be pushing back against the townread on ADK.
But if ADK is scum, then the townread is a godsend and scum would love to lock it in.
This makes a lot of sense. And if this were a normal day it would be a great time to start an ADK wagon, but of course our choice is now between MiX and chairs, whether we like it or not. So the question is, does the ADK question affect the MiX/chairs question. Is one of them more or less likely to be ADK's partner?
My brain's a little dead rn Galz, so help me parse this: If [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] is scum and ADK is town, then scum's only hope is to get ADK mislynched, so [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be pushing back against the townread on ADK.
But if ADK is scum, then the townread is a godsend and scum would love to lock it in.
This makes a lot of sense. And if this were a normal day it would be a great time to start an ADK wagon, but of course our choice is now between MiX and chairs, whether we like it or not. So the question is, does the ADK question affect the MiX/chairs question. Is one of them more or less likely to be ADK's partner?
This is also true if ADK is scum, then the two town in [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be fighting that townread, which is what I have started to do, but there is just no reason to go there today. Either way from my perspective, there is scum in the two that are up for lynch today. It's also possible that they are both scum.
What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
Galz has no need to push this, for he can simply get lucky with his partner not dying. Unlike gkrieg/chairs, a Galz team has a chance of simply lynching 2 town.
What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
Galz has no need to push this, for he can simply get lucky with his partner not dying. Unlike gkrieg/chairs, a Galz team has a chance of simply lynching 2 town.
What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
Galz has no need to push this, for he can simply get lucky with his partner not dying. Unlike gkrieg/chairs, a Galz team has a chance of simply lynching 2 town.What if Galz is scum and his whole "ADK must be scum because no ones trying to fight his townification" IS the effort to fight his townification?
Galz has no need to push this, for he can simply get lucky with his partner not dying. Unlike gkrieg/chairs, a Galz team has a chance of simply lynching 2 town.
Pretty much this. In a world where I’m scum then I still win with the “ignore ADK and lynch out {MiX, Chairs, gkrieg} strategy.
unless MiX is your partner and the scum promoter, in which case it’s imperative he not get lynched because his flip would out you
Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
ADK has had six different players vote for them.I had my own reasons too
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
unless MiX is your partner and the scum promoter, in which case it’s imperative he not get lynched because his flip would out you
And he self promoted today when it’s “imperative he not get lynched because his flip would out you”?
Don't worry buddy, I have like infinity towncred, I'll never out us, don't worry about it.
My brain's a little dead rn Galz, so help me parse this: If [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] is scum and ADK is town, then scum's only hope is to get ADK mislynched, so [gkrieg/chairs/MiX] should be pushing back against the townread on ADK.
But if ADK is scum, then the townread is a godsend and scum would love to lock it in.
This makes a lot of sense. And if this were a normal day it would be a great time to start an ADK wagon, but of course our choice is now between MiX and chairs, whether we like it or not. So the question is, does the ADK question affect the MiX/chairs question. Is one of them more or less likely to be ADK's partner?
The logic pretzeling is real
Mods: may I post a coloured-in voting-history log?
EFHW asked for voting records at the end of D3, but the game had hit the night phase before I caught up.
I can't believe we still have 4 days left in this day that has ground to a halt.
The logic pretzeling is real
I can't believe we still have 4 days left in this day that has ground to a halt.
Mostly because you want to entertain the idea that I can be scum. I guess I understand, but chairs is a much better lynch anyway.
I can't believe we still have 4 days left in this day that has ground to a halt.
Mostly because you want to entertain the idea that I can be scum. I guess I understand, but chairs is a much better lynch anyway.
You know if you would stop being so scummy it would help a lot.
I guess it makes sense that I'm actually scum
I guess it makes sense that I'm actually scum
--MiX
You seem scummy to me. So does Galz. But mostly likely I'm wrong. gkrieg seems towny. Probably wrong there, too.I can't believe we still have 4 days left in this day that has ground to a halt.
Mostly because you want to entertain the idea that I can be scum. I guess I understand, but chairs is a much better lynch anyway.
You know if you would stop being so scummy it would help a lot.
People who have played with chairs ... does scum!chairs just give up like this when he's overwhelmingly likely to be lynched? that feels much more like a town thing to me.I'm thinking about the VCA Glooble did. I don't think I've seen him fight as town or scum. I also have a strong townread on MiX. Maybe his appeals to emotion worked on me, but I don't have any reason to vote him.
People who are voting chairs: Do you really think he's scum? Do you just think he's scummier then MiX? Is this all just PoE?
People who have played with chairs ... does scum!chairs just give up like this when he's overwhelmingly likely to be lynched? that feels much more like a town thing to me.
People who are voting chairs: Do you really think he's scum? Do you just think he's scummier then MiX? Is this all just PoE?
"with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
| MiX (2): | VS | chairs (3): |
| jotheonah | MiX | |
| chairs | EFHW | |
| A Drowned Kernel | ||
"with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
This is what worries me. Seems townie.
"with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
This is what worries me. Seems townie.
I mean, if the scum team is chairs/gkrieg, then they might feel like their only real hope is to go quiet and let people paranoid-talk themselves into switching to mix. chairs has a pretty lurky meta already, so I'm betting that scum!chairs would be banking on that saving him here.
"with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
This is what worries me. Seems townie.
I mean, if the scum team is chairs/gkrieg, then they might feel like their only real hope is to go quiet and let people paranoid-talk themselves into switching to mix. chairs has a pretty lurky meta already, so I'm betting that scum!chairs would be banking on that saving him here.
This seems like a stretch.
I'd be hoping the paranoid talk would save me."with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
This is what worries me. Seems townie.
I mean, if the scum team is chairs/gkrieg, then they might feel like their only real hope is to go quiet and let people paranoid-talk themselves into switching to mix. chairs has a pretty lurky meta already, so I'm betting that scum!chairs would be banking on that saving him here.
Not even sure where to start on how ridiculous this all is.What exactly is ridiculous?
"with his life on the line doesn't seem to be making any real attempt to make a case on mix."
This is what worries me. Seems townie.
I mean, if the scum team is chairs/gkrieg, then they might feel like their only real hope is to go quiet and let people paranoid-talk themselves into switching to mix. chairs has a pretty lurky meta already, so I'm betting that scum!chairs would be banking on that saving him here.
This seems like a stretch.
So instead I bussed Swan and chairs? Yep, seems more plausible.
So instead I bussed Swan and chairs? Yep, seems more plausible.
Can you explain this, especially the chairs part?
It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
I've already said that I'm waiting for Space to post their vote count stuff and then I will vote for chairs. Didn't want to give him the opportunity to hammer himself before that info was out.
It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
This is actually just a weird statement. Wouldn't you want all the ICs to weigh in before the day was over?
So instead I bussed Swan and chairs? Yep, seems more plausible.
Can you explain this, especially the chairs part?
Weren't you going around with "MiX would challenge chairs otherwise he would be snap lynched" or something? So clearly in a Swan!MiX!chairs team I bus both of my partners hardcore, right? That makes perfect sense...
Of course, you might say this makes more sense for a Swan!MiX!gkrieg team, which I agree with. But thinking it could be both me and chairs is pure paranoia that has no grounds on reality, which was my point when making that post.
So instead I bussed Swan and chairs? Yep, seems more plausible.
Can you explain this, especially the chairs part?
Weren't you going around with "MiX would challenge chairs otherwise he would be snap lynched" or something? So clearly in a Swan!MiX!chairs team I bus both of my partners hardcore, right? That makes perfect sense...
Of course, you might say this makes more sense for a Swan!MiX!gkrieg team, which I agree with. But thinking it could be both me and chairs is pure paranoia that has no grounds on reality, which was my point when making that post.
It's no more implausible than any other bus.
It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
I've already said that I'm waiting for Space to post their vote count stuff and then I will vote for chairs. Didn't want to give him the opportunity to hammer himself before that info was out.
:/It's a little weird that gkrieg hasn't put down a vote yet.
This is actually just a weird statement. Wouldn't you want all the ICs to weigh in before the day was over?
I'm just trying to look at this from the perspective of "what would chairs' partner be doing now?" And I think, they'd be voting MiX, right? except with no one else voting MiX except me and chairs himself, that would look really bad tomorrow. So they'd be voting chairs, right? Bus early, bus often? But then they completely give up on saving him. So maybe they express an interest in voting chairs, but hold off as long as possible on actually doing it, while hoping that Space's vote analysis will give you cover to vote MiX without looking scummy?
I’m tempted to do it. But dammit if I’m not curious what Space is cooking.
If Space isn’t going to post*You had a space there.
| MiX (2): | VS | chairs (5): |
| jotheonah | MiX | |
| chairs | EFHW | |
| A Drowned Kernel | ||
| Galzria | ||
| gkrieg13 | ||
At least give me the chance to reread him and hopefully find the last scum.
Also kind of a weird kill. It means that scum definitely bussed
They killed the person most suspicious of MiX. Probably hoping to cast shadows over him.
So I didn’t check the thread because I play on my phone whenever I get a new post notification....
I didn’t have notify enabled for this thread.
Oops!
Anyway screw the town promoter claiming. Also someone mentioned faith in vigilantes and I apologize for generating that faith on this board ;)
vote: a drowned kernel the promoter claim discussion ended up getting us nowhere and feels distracting.
Well basically I just have to convince you that it is ADK. MiX would have been extremely risky challenging his partner yesterday and heavily bussing Datswan.
Is galzria 100% IC at this point?
I think ari is town. Too.... noisy? I guess is the word I want to use. Very few people can play the game the way ari is playing when they’re scum.
However I do think mix is scum.
vote: mix
Oh and Faust makes sense.
vote: adk
I could vote: mix sure
Wow I’m really happy with my mix vote now because I know when I was caught scum D1 in Harry Potter mafia I reacted the same way he just did
Grr. The more I think about it, the more I agree that mix isn’t scum - i would have expected a pr claim to see if I could at least draw out a town pr
I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.
Bold move, Cotton.
Welp there goes me voting jotheonah over mix.
vote: mix
I don’t believe someone could play this way as scum. Can’t get behind a mix lynch.
vote: glooble
Of the people who have participated in the setup discussion:
MiX- I'm leaning town, his posts tend to have an organic feel to them
joth- Leaning scum, his posts seem more reactive and less "rock-the-boat"
mcmc- The idea that MiX is/was traitor hunting seems like a reach to me, but also looks like genuine scumhunting, so some townpoints
galz- Disagreement on the power level of promoter aside, I think his post about where scum falls in the discussion was a little scummy; it looks like he's making a definitive statement without committing him to any particular read
faust- I can never read faust, I'll just assume that he's town for now
datswan- seems confused about the setup, his posts confuse me so I'm confused as to where his confusion actually lies. Pretty much null here.
vote: joth
In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.
That was awhile ago. Looking back at your posts, my question for you is, what info were you hoping to get out of asking me if I thought that a compulsive vig was negative utility?
On that note vote: joth
???
I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?
I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...
Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?
We should massclaim.
I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.
What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims
Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win
Works for me
vote: datswan
Let's actually look at these two in iso. Not hitting every post here, just stuff that stands out to me
joth:
RVS votes for Glooble, claims jester at the start, jokey stuff
Non-committal on the promoter claiming issue
This post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798326#msg798326) where he wants to make very clear that his jester post was a joke is pretty scummy
Townreads (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798391#msg798391) datswan, for confusion over the setup
Scumreads (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798403#msg798403) me for my setup plan, so he is actually taking a stand. I feel like he is misrepresenting my stance in this post, though
His last point (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798403#msg798403) in his response to mix is a lot of words to say nothing
This vote switch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798475#msg798475) seems a little knee-jerk, which is townier
This little walkback (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798539#msg798539) seems like he's trying to keep his options open
But (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798547#msg798547) he is pretty strongly defending faust, which leans on the townier side. OTOH I don't think ari's case against faust at this point has much traction, so he's not sticking his neck out too far
joth (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798549#msg798549) feels sassier in this game, on a reread, than he has in other games I've played with recently. Is that an alignment tell for him? Probably not
Is scum[/url this flippant about voting for someone they claim to have a townread on? Maybe, if they know they'll be townread for it
[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798708#msg798708]Then goes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798572#msg798572) to vote for mix, then justifies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798719#msg798719) his vote saying that the wagon was stalling. Not the worst reason, but also doesn't have anything to do with mix
More sass. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798751#msg798751) Regardless of your alignment joth, you are entertaining to read here
Joth[/ur] does have a pretty consistent narrative behind his votes. If he is scum this is well constructed
[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798962#msg798962]joth (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798824#msg798824) is at one vote, with interest in voting from Galz, when he makes this "if you want to lynch me while I sleep" comment. Not great
Note (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799142#msg799142) that joth initially claims that he wasn't intending to target mix before spending quite awhile calling mix his biggest scumread
Another post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799148#msg799148) where joth seems to feel an inordinate amount of pressure for the attention he's actually received (his point C). More likely to come from scum, I think
The big fight with Galz, I don't really think any of this is an alignment tell
Back on mix. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799220#msg799220) He tunneled mix a lot on day one, and I think that joth is savvy enough to know that tunneling comes off as towny. More and more his read on mix is looking to me less genuine and more constructed
The fact (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799240#msg799240) that this is posed as a question and not a statement stands out to me, again I find more and more of joth's posting to be overly concerned/aware about the opinion of town as a whole. Maybe that's a natural feeling for the gladiator but some of it does go back to day one
Puts a lot of effort (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799254#msg799254) (where more than I remembered before rereading) on keeping open the possibility of scum!galz. Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I still feel that there's no way in hell scum!galz claims like he did, and joth looks like he still wants galz to be a viable challenge for him
Actually (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799299#msg799299) allows his mind to be swayed, though. Or maybe realized that the cause was hopeless. Or maybe knew ahead of time that it would fall through, and that a big emotional struggle looks towny
So (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799338#msg799338) I think this is basically the first time that joth has seriously commented at all on faust's alignment. For someone who's posted quite a bit this game, Joth has talked about surprisingly few people
The intent to challenge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799413#msg799413) DatSwan is a little out of left field
At the end of all that, joth comes off as only mildly scummy, but scummier than I remember. In my most recent game with scum!joth, he did seem to get more active the more pressure was on his team, and I don't know what's more pressure-inducing than being a gladiator
Let's see what I get from DatSwan
Seems (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798317#msg798317) confused about whether there is a promoter. But if promoter is town scum might be legitimately confused about whether there is one.
Later clarifies that promoter here refers to "town promoter"
First post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798637#msg798637) (several of his posts in) where he expresses any reads. Had previously expressed that he had been busy but there are quite a few setup-talk posts before this. I don't know, is scum this sloppy?
Then (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798641#msg798641) casts suspicion on me and mix for bringing up the promoter stuff, then votes for me because mix has more votes. Not great
This (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798772#msg798772) post seems a little more engaged
Big post. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798922#msg798922) Analysis seems genuine, a lot of his logic is based on where people are on wagons, which is something that I disagree with but is also in character for DatSwan
Given that it's (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798985#msg798985) extremely unlikely at this point that joth and swan are partners, I think that swan coming to joth's defense here is town points
But (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798997#msg798997) then points out that joth could still be scum. His logic here is pretty fuzzy
Excited (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799013#msg799013) energy in these last posts sparing with Joseph, mildly towny
More (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799037#msg799037) setup confusion. About stuff that's harder to be confused about as scum
Argues (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799380#msg799380) against claiming pre-challenge, on the idea that joth might be scum. I see his point but also having town challenge a PR would be bad
This (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799390#msg799390) spliting of people into pools, while unhelpful, is consistent with what I know of town!Swan. It's a long post with no real reads, though
Well, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799403#msg799403) here's a read
At this point (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg799430#msg799430) I think I actually find this kind of thing towny
So looking back on everything, joth comes off as scummier and datswan as townier than I remembered. I'm still somewhat on the fence but I think it's enough for me to
Unvote
MiX's continued attempts to will his way into IC status really bother me. Like, that is not a crazy thing for scum to be trying to do at this juncture. If we've all made it clear that PoE is the way we're gonna play this, scum wants to get eliminated from that list as definitively as possible.
What if MiX is scum and his whole lynchee thing is just a gambit to get him and his partner both on the quote-unquote IC list and the reason he's stalling with that info is because he wants to make sure he's really clear before he risks tying him and his partner together.
It's plausible. More likely something that I would be willing to consider at LyLo, though.
vote: chairs
vote: MiX
I 100% agree with everything my twin is saying.
Here's the thing: pushing mix is exactly what scum!glooble needs to do right at this moment. There's a very small pool of people that are still viable lynches, and mix and galz are teetering at the edge of that pool.
Glooble's posts here are very consistent with the idea that he's putting everything he has into getting one of them lynched while he still can; then if he goes down tomorrow, his other partner (gkrieg or chairs) would hopefully make it through lylo.
I think this is just caught scum being desperate.
vote: glooble
I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.
vote : chairs
That's L-1
Well basically I just have to convince you that it is ADK. MiX would have been extremely risky challenging his partner yesterday and heavily bussing Datswan.
If you think I cannot, under any circumnstances, be scum, then we win. Feel free to explain it as detailed as possible in case someone doesn't believe I'm the towniest non-IC alive.
Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Vote: ADK
We can do the tried-and-not-tested joth lynch, if you want. Sad part is I think you're not good lynch material. Maybe you are?Things like this are making you seem summer to me
Vote: mix
PPE: 3
Unvote
Not mix today after this claim
But then they walk it back with this long post.
But then switches over to glooble fairly quickly.
I'm town, but nothing ADK has done has been all that scummy. MiX bussed Datswan pretty hard when it seemed like the momentum could have switched to joth D2, and then challenged chairs.
I would love for both of them to actually make cases for why I'm scum, instead of just being the default lynch.
Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Is this why we think ADK is the lynchee?
Vote: ADK
And this one too. I guess it just means that MiX probably wasn't the lynchee.
ADK has had six different players vote for them.So most of these cases are promoter or traitor talk
Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return
Both of which weren't super helpful
I think it's scummier than anything ari has done, so Vote: ADK
I'm sleeping now, will be back in ~8 hours
PPE: 1
But then they walk it back with this long post.
This andBut then switches over to glooble fairly quickly.
Kinda convinces me. But naaaah it's gkrieg.I'm town, but nothing ADK has done has been all that scummy. MiX bussed Datswan pretty hard when it seemed like the momentum could have switched to joth D2, and then challenged chairs.
I would love for both of them to actually make cases for why I'm scum, instead of just being the default lynch.
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore. I like your effort, I suppose.Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Is this why we think ADK is the lynchee?Vote: ADK
And this one too. I guess it just means that MiX probably wasn't the lynchee.
Pretty much, yes. The way ADK became a major wagon and how Joseph was a major part of it is why I'm townreading him more than you.
PPE the other posts I think?
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore.
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore.
I will lynch you over ADK every time.
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore.
I will lynch you over ADK every time.
Aww. What if gkrieg isn't trying his hardest to win?
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore.
I will lynch you over ADK every time.
Aww. What if gkrieg isn't trying his hardest to win?
Why would you think he isn’t? He has nothing to lose by trying as Town or as scum.
I think I win LyLo against anyone so I don't really care anymore.
I will lynch you over ADK every time.
Aww. What if gkrieg isn't trying his hardest to win?
Why would you think he isn’t? He has nothing to lose by trying as Town or as scum.
Yeah I kinda meant to say "as scum" in the end. I think he's scum that's trying to win instead of giving up.
Request prod on Space.
Request prod on Space.
Sorry.. I'm here! Work got busy, and I have no free weekends to use in compensation. I'm really sorry for my absences! :-(
Request prod on Space.
Sorry.. I'm here! Work got busy, and I have no free weekends to use in compensation. I'm really sorry for my absences! :-(
Space, can you please do a fully targeted reread on MiX, and his potential to be scum with Chairs/Datswan.
How do you feel about him challenging Chairs in this pairing? Given the number of IC’s, the pressure to challenge Chairs over Gkrieg yesterday, and the overall feeling that scum were already backed into a corner, is it really that unreasonable of him to challenge his partner banking on the town!cred generated to buy him the following two mislynches he would need to win?
Just vote gkrieg!
Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
What was the point of the long posts showing who was mentioned when by ADK and MiX? Did you draw any conclusions from that?Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
I am flipping town. Don't know why people are rushing this so much.
It's the one where he says he had his own reasons for voting ADK. I quoted it awhile back and someone else quoted it a really long time ago, don't remember who.Vote: ADKvote: MiX
Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?
Is this why we think ADK is the lynchee?
Doesn't seem worth it, though. Having joth around suspecting MiX would have been good for gkrieg.They killed the person most suspicious of MiX. Probably hoping to cast shadows over him.
That's my guess too
How do you feel about him challenging Chairs in this pairing? Given the number of IC’s, the pressure to challenge Chairs over Gkrieg yesterday, and the overall feeling that scum were already backed into a corner, is it really that unreasonable of him to challenge his partner banking on the town!cred generated to buy him the following two mislynches he would need to win?
What was the point of the long posts showing who was mentioned when by ADK and MiX? Did you draw any conclusions from that?Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
I am flipping town. Don't know why people are rushing this so much.
How do you feel about him challenging Chairs in this pairing? Given the number of IC’s, the pressure to challenge Chairs over Gkrieg yesterday, and the overall feeling that scum were already backed into a corner, is it really that unreasonable of him to challenge his partner banking on the town!cred generated to buy him the following two mislynches he would need to win?
I could've easily challenged gkrieg. There was pretty much no pressure. I knew I would win the challenge against both of them, so why pick my partner? Oh, right, because I'm the best busser around, starting D2 with saying Swan is scum and then NEVER FLIPPING MY STANCE all the way to his lynch. Ew, unless I did? I hope not...
Again, best busser, right here. Pro play scum, distancing myself from Swan's D1 wagon (he kinda started the Joseph thing), bussing him as hard as I could D2, then hammering Glooble for fun, then challenging chairs...I think I already told you guys the "MiX!chairs" nonsense before, it was a pretty big post in D4, feel free to check it out. It obviously points out how good I am as scum.
Is anyone going to lynch ADK over gkrieg? Because that's actually better for my survival.
It's scummy to say "MiX voted his partner", when it's nowhere near conclusive that MiX is even scum.What was the point of the long posts showing who was mentioned when by ADK and MiX? Did you draw any conclusions from that?Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
I am flipping town. Don't know why people are rushing this so much.
I was trying to highlight the partner interactions of ADK and MiX with their scum partners. I guess I was trying to show that either (if ADK is scum) you shouldn't give IC status based off the idea that ADK is the lynchee, or that MiX bussed his partners really hard.
One of the two must be true, so I was trying to figure out if ADK really was the lynchee, and if they weren't, what did their interactions with their partners look like, or to see if Datswan and chairs interacted with either ADK or MiX.
I'm town that is going to be lynched before anyone looks into ADK and MiX, so I was trying to make it easier to read them and their interactions with the two flipped scum.
It's scummy to say "MiX voted his partner", when it's nowhere near conclusive that MiX is even scum.What was the point of the long posts showing who was mentioned when by ADK and MiX? Did you draw any conclusions from that?Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
I am flipping town. Don't know why people are rushing this so much.
I was trying to highlight the partner interactions of ADK and MiX with their scum partners. I guess I was trying to show that either (if ADK is scum) you shouldn't give IC status based off the idea that ADK is the lynchee, or that MiX bussed his partners really hard.
One of the two must be true, so I was trying to figure out if ADK really was the lynchee, and if they weren't, what did their interactions with their partners look like, or to see if Datswan and chairs interacted with either ADK or MiX.
I'm town that is going to be lynched before anyone looks into ADK and MiX, so I was trying to make it easier to read them and their interactions with the two flipped scum.
It's scummy to say "MiX voted his partner", when it's nowhere near conclusive that MiX is even scum.What was the point of the long posts showing who was mentioned when by ADK and MiX? Did you draw any conclusions from that?Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
I am flipping town. Don't know why people are rushing this so much.
I was trying to highlight the partner interactions of ADK and MiX with their scum partners. I guess I was trying to show that either (if ADK is scum) you shouldn't give IC status based off the idea that ADK is the lynchee, or that MiX bussed his partners really hard.
One of the two must be true, so I was trying to figure out if ADK really was the lynchee, and if they weren't, what did their interactions with their partners look like, or to see if Datswan and chairs interacted with either ADK or MiX.
I'm town that is going to be lynched before anyone looks into ADK and MiX, so I was trying to make it easier to read them and their interactions with the two flipped scum.
Note that I am approaching this as a hypothetical. Did you read the whole post? I also never actually said what you put in quotes, which is misleading.
The point was that when y'all lynch me today, you will have to think through the situation I just posed:
1. MiX is scum: requires that he bussed his partners very hard
2. ADK is scum: someone else was the lynchee
I'm trying to give you information (because no one seems to be rereading) so that minimal rereading is required to make that decision.
@gkrieg - I know it was hypothetical, but that was left out of most of your posts. And they were very long. It would be so much more helpful if you organized the information you want us to consider. I know you didn't make that specific statement. That was intended to stand in for all the variations in which you referred to someone as someone else's partner without any justification or caveat.
What is your response to Joseph's statement that he had his own reasons for voting ADK?
PPE: Galzria -- An IC we'll be lynching? Are you talking to gkrieg?
@gkrieg - I know it was hypothetical, but that was left out of most of your posts. And they were very long. It would be so much more helpful if you organized the information you want us to consider. I know you didn't make that specific statement. That was intended to stand in for all the variations in which you referred to someone as someone else's partner without any justification or caveat.
What is your response to Joseph's statement that he had his own reasons for voting ADK?
PPE: Galzria -- An IC we'll be lynching? Are you talking to gkrieg?
Gkrieg - Do you believe that you would’ve lost to MiX had he challenged you yesterday?
Gkrieg - Do you believe that you would’ve lost to MiX had he challenged you yesterday?
Hard question. I tend to overestimate my towniness, so yes I do believe I would have won the challenge. But I also am in this situation today, so I'm not sure.
I haven't had any case put on me other than PoE and general lurkiness, so that also makes me believe I could have won yesterday.
Gkrieg - Do you believe that you would’ve lost to MiX had he challenged you yesterday?
Hard question. I tend to overestimate my towniness, so yes I do believe I would have won the challenge. But I also am in this situation today, so I'm not sure.
I haven't had any case put on me other than PoE and general lurkiness, so that also makes me believe I could have won yesterday.
Why do you think I was scummier than you?
Just vote gkrieg!
I would rather have Space’s analysis now, in case Gkrieg flips town and then Space dies at night.
(why crumb that role at all?), but mostly just seem to be a knee-jerk defense in response being accused of sheeping faust.Breadcrumbing is a good idea with this role because he knows for sure someone is town. In case he is killed, that person can be IC. I don't know if Joseph would do that. It seems just as likely that he would have tried to get the townie lynched to get the individual win.
(why crumb that role at all?), but mostly just seem to be a knee-jerk defense in response being accused of sheeping faust.Breadcrumbing is a good idea with this role because he knows for sure someone is town. In case he is killed, that person can be IC. I don't know if Joseph would do that. It seems just as likely that he would have tried to get the townie lynched to get the individual win.
(why crumb that role at all?), but mostly just seem to be a knee-jerk defense in response being accused of sheeping faust.Breadcrumbing is a good idea with this role because he knows for sure someone is town. In case he is killed, that person can be IC. I don't know if Joseph would do that. It seems just as likely that he would have tried to get the townie lynched to get the individual win.
He only wins if the lynchee is lynched, he can’t win with town.
Well damn.
challenge: mix
vote: mix
But then they walk it back with this long post.
This andBut then switches over to glooble fairly quickly.
Kinda convinces me. But naaaah it's gkrieg.
VOTING FOR DAY 1
#12
arishipshape (1): MiX
Not Voting (13): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Glooble, Galzria, faust, Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#13
arishipshape (1): MiX
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (12): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Glooble, Galzria, Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#20
arishipshape (1): MiX
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (11): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Glooble, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#22
arishipshape (1): MiX
MiX (2): faust, arishipshape
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (10): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Glooble, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#24
arishipshape (1): MiX
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (10): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Glooble, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#25
arishipshape (2): MiX, Glooble
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (9): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#27
arishipshape (2): MiX, Glooble
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): arishipshape, gkrieg13
Not Voting (8): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#28
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): arishipshape, gkrieg13
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (8): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#30
MiX (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Glooble
Joseph2302 (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, arishipshape
Not Voting (8): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#36
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Glooble
Joseph2302 (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Not Voting (8): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#41
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Glooble
Joseph2302 (2): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Not Voting (7): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, EFHW
#46
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, gkrieg13
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (7): DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, EFHW
#52
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, gkrieg13
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (6): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, EFHW
#77
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, gkrieg13
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): jotheonah
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, Galzria, EFHW
#101
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, gkrieg13
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): jotheonah
DatSwan (1): MiX
MiX (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (5): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, EFHW
#106
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Glooble (1): jotheonah
DatSwan (1): MiX
MiX (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (5): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, EFHW
#108
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, MiX
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Glooble (1): jotheonah
MiX (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (5): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, EFHW
#112
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, MiX
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Glooble (1): jotheonah
MiX (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW
#132
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Glooble (1): jotheonah
MiX (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
jotheonah (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW
#135
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Glooble (1): jotheonah
MiX (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
jotheonah (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#140
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
MiX (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
jotheonah (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, jotheonah
#141
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
MiX (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
jotheonah (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#162
arishipshape (1): Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (3): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13
jotheonah (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#163
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (3): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13
jotheonah (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Glooble
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#164
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (3): faust, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (3): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#165
gkrieg13 (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (3): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (3): Glooble, MiX, Joseph2302
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#170
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (3): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (3): Glooble, MiX, Joseph2302
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape
#171
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (2): MiX, Joseph2302
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape
#196
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, jotheonah
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (5): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape, MiX
#200
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (5): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape, MiX
#201
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, MiX
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape
#247
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, MiX
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
faust (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#264
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, MiX
faust (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#267
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, MiX
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape
#271
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, arishipshape
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW
#274
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, MiX
Not Voting (4): DatSwan, Chairs, EFHW, arishipshape
#278
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, EFHW, arishipshape
#279
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs
jotheonah (1): A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, EFHW, arishipshape
#286
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, EFHW, arishipshape
#297
A Drowned Kernel (1): faust
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): DatSwan, arishipshape
#298
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (3): jotheonah, EFHW, faust
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): DatSwan, arishipshape
#300
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): DatSwan, arishipshape
#301
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (2): jotheonah, EFHW
faust (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): DatSwan, arishipshape
#322
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (6): mcmcsalot, Galzria, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
faust (1): MiX
Galzria (1): EFHW
Not Voting (2): DatSwan, arishipshape
#334
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): mcmcsalot, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
faust (1): MiX
Galzria (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, arishipshape, Galzria
#335
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): mcmcsalot, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
faust (1): MiX
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#347
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): mcmcsalot, gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#357
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#360
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
Chairs (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (2): EFHW, MiX
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#364
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (3): EFHW, MiX, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#369
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (3): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (3): EFHW, MiX, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#375
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (3): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
Galzria (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Glooble (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#376
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Glooble (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#377
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Glooble (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#410
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#420
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (2): MiX, Joseph2302
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#433
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (2): MiX, Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#434
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, faust
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (2): MiX, Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#435
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, faust, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#438
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (4): DatSwan, faust, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#440
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (2): arishipshape, Galzria
#450
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (3): gkrieg13, Glooble, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (1): Chairs
Not Voting (3): arishipshape, Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#451
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (2): gkrieg13, Glooble
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (2): Chairs, jotheonah
Not Voting (3): arishipshape, Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#472
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (2): gkrieg13, Glooble
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (2): Chairs, jotheonah
Chairs (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#478
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (2): gkrieg13, Glooble
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (2): Chairs, jotheonah
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#484
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (3): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, MiX, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#485
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
arishipshape (1): jotheonah
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#487
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#488
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): gkrieg13, Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
jotheonah (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#494
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
jotheonah (1): MiX
arishipshape (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#495
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
jotheonah (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel
#511
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
jotheonah (1): MiX
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#513
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): arishipshape, MiX
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#519
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, Joseph2302, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (2): A Drowned Kernel, MiX
#524
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, MiX, Joseph2302
#529
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (2): DatSwan, Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (2): A Drowned Kernel, MiX
#530
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
MiX (4): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, Joseph2302, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#535
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, Joseph2302, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#538
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (4): DatSwan, Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#540
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (5): DatSwan, Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#542
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
#545
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (2): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
#551
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (2): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
jotheonah (1): Chairs
#554
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (5): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot, EFHW
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (1): Chairs
#560
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (1): Chairs
Not Voting (1): EFHW
#564
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
EFHW (1): arishipshape
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (1): Chairs
arishipshape (1): EFHW
#572
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (4): Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (1): Chairs
arishipshape (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): arishipshape
#574
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (3): Joseph2302, MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (2): Chairs, Galzria
arishipshape (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): arishipshape
#579
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (3): Joseph2302, MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (3): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape
arishipshape (1): EFHW
#590
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (2): MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (4): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302
arishipshape (1): EFHW
#593
Joseph2302 (3): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW
MiX (4): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (2): MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (4): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302
#596
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (2): MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (4): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302
#602
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (2): MiX, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (4): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302
#622
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (5): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302, MiX
#637
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): Chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302, MiX
VOTING FOR DAY 2
#705
MiX (1): Glooble
Not Voting (11): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, MiX, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#708
MiX (1): Glooble
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (10): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, MiX, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#715
MiX (1): Glooble
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, Chairs, jotheonah, MiX, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#720
MiX (2): Glooble, Chairs
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (8): arishipshape, DatSwan, jotheonah, MiX, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#741
MiX (2): Glooble, Chairs
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (7): arishipshape, DatSwan, MiX, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#752
MiX (2): Glooble, Chairs
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Glooble (1): faust
faust (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#753
MiX (2): Glooble, Chairs
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, MiX
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#773
Galzria (4): A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, MiX, Glooble
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Chairs
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#801
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Chairs
Galzria (3): jotheonah, MiX, Glooble
Not Voting (7): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
#820
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Chairs
Galzria (2): jotheonah, MiX
Not Voting (8): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Glooble
#821
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Chairs
Galzria (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Glooble, jotheonah
#822
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Chairs
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Glooble, jotheonah
#831
Glooble (1): faust
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (10): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Glooble, jotheonah, Chairs
#864
Glooble (1): faust
DatSwan (1): MiX
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, Chairs
#896
Glooble (1): faust
DatSwan (1): MiX
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, Chairs
#901
Glooble (1): faust
gkrieg13 (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, Chairs
#925
Glooble (1): faust
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah, Chairs
#926
Glooble (1): faust
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (2): MiX, jotheonah
Not Voting (8): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Chairs
#927
Glooble (1): faust
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (3): MiX, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (7): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, Chairs
#930
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (3): MiX, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
jotheonah (1): faust
Not Voting (7): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, Chairs
#935
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (4): MiX, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW
jotheonah (1): faust
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, DatSwan, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Chairs
#936
gkrieg13 (1): Glooble
DatSwan (4): MiX, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW
jotheonah (2): faust, DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Chairs
#941
DatSwan (5): MiX, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Glooble
jotheonah (2): faust, DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Chairs
#951
DatSwan (4): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble
jotheonah (2): faust, DatSwan
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Chairs, A Drowned Kernel
#953
DatSwan (5): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs
jotheonah (2): faust, DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
#1008
DatSwan (6): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs, faust
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
#1040
DatSwan (5): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (6): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel, faust
#1049
DatSwan (6): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs, faust
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
#1057
DatSwan (6): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs, faust
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): arishipshape, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
#1062
DatSwan (7): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs, faust, arishipshape
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (4): gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
#1068
DatSwan (8): MiX, jotheonah, EFHW, Glooble, Chairs, faust, arishipshape, Galzria
jotheonah (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (3): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
VOTING FOR DAY 3
#1084
Glooble (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Glooble, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1088
Not Voting (10): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Glooble, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, MiX
#1094
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Glooble, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1098
EFHW (1): MiX
Chairs (1): Glooble
Not Voting (8): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1101
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (8): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1104
Chairs (3): Glooble, MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1106
Chairs (2): Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1109
Chairs (2): Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
EFHW (1): MiX
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (6): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1112
Chairs (2): Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, MiX
#1122
Chairs (2): Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1124
Chairs (2): Glooble, A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, MiX
#1154
Chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (1): faust
MiX (1): Glooble
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, MiX
#1161
Chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (2): faust, Galzria
MiX (1): Glooble
Not Voting (6): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, MiX
#1171
Chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (3): faust, Galzria, MiX
MiX (1): Glooble
Not Voting (5): Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1181
Chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (3): faust, Galzria, MiX
MiX (2): Glooble, jotheonah
Not Voting (4): Chairs, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1182
Chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (3): faust, Galzria, MiX
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Not Voting (3): Chairs, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1183
Glooble (4): faust, Galzria, MiX, A Drowned Kernel
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Not Voting (3): Chairs, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1198
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Glooble (3): Galzria, MiX, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4): Chairs, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, faust
#1199
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Glooble (4): Galzria, MiX, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW
Not Voting (3): Chairs, SpaceAnemone, faust
#1220
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Glooble (5): Galzria, MiX, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1230
MiX (3): Glooble, jotheonah, gkrieg13
Glooble (4): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1231
Glooble (4): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs
MiX (2): jotheonah, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Chairs (1): Glooble
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1294
Glooble (4): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs
MiX (2): jotheonah, gkrieg13
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1298
Glooble (5): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs, gkrieg13
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1300
Glooble (6): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs, gkrieg13, MiX
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (1): Glooble
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1313
Glooble (5): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs, gkrieg13
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
#1331
Glooble (6): Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, EFHW, Chairs, gkrieg13, faust
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (2): Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
VOTING FOR DAY 4
#1340
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): Chairs, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1347
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
MiX (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (6): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1358
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1386
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1389
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1390
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (2): MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (5): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1391
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (2): MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (5): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1393
MiX (1): jotheonah
Chairs (3): MiX, EFHW, gkrieg13
Not Voting (4): Chairs, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1394
MiX (2): jotheonah, Chairs
Chairs (3): MiX, EFHW, gkrieg13
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1397
MiX (2): jotheonah, Chairs
Chairs (2): MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13
#1463
MiX (2): jotheonah, Chairs
Chairs (3): MiX, EFHW, Galzria
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13
#1473
MiX (2): jotheonah, Chairs
Chairs (4): MiX, EFHW, Galzria, gkrieg13
Not Voting (2): A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
VOTING FOR DAY 5
#1480
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#1481
gkrieg13 (2): MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1482
gkrieg13 (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (3): gkrieg13, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
#1561
gkrieg13 (4): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria
Not Voting (2): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone
Space in the space
Vote: ADK
L-1
PPE: Yes, I did notice it.
When is deadline?
When is deadline?
"Ehhhh, June 1 10:30 PM EST?
...I think?"
For someone who loved clarity, Uncleeurope wasn't too good at it.
When is deadline?
"Ehhhh, June 1 10:30 PM EST?
...I think?"
For someone who loved clarity, Uncleeurope wasn't too good at it.
Erm.. just for clarity, is "EST" the same as Forum Time? Like is it around 12.57 EST when I post this, or should I be accounting for summertime somehow? Thanks!
We're in daylight time. Forum is UTC-4. You posted at 12:58.
I don't know. I happen to live in the same zone as FT. It's EDT, though, not EST.When is deadline?
"Ehhhh, June 1 10:30 PM EST?
...I think?"
For someone who loved clarity, Uncleeurope wasn't too good at it.
Erm.. just for clarity, is "EST" the same as Forum Time? Like is it around 12.57 EST when I post this, or should I be accounting for summertime somehow? Thanks!
I think you have it right, this is why I dislike dealing with this. I assumed everyone's "forum time" automatically set to their current time zone. Is everyone's forum really set to EST?
EDT is UTC-4, EST is UTC-5. FT reflects EDT.We're in daylight time. Forum is UTC-4. You posted at 12:58.
I can see that I posted at 12.58 forum time.. the key info I'm missing is whether or not that is also EST :-)
Does the definition of EST move with summer hours, or is it like UTC, where many of us move by an hour relative to it when summer time kicks in for our respective countries/timezones?
When is deadline?
"Ehhhh, June 1 10:30 PM EST?
...I think?"
For someone who loved clarity, Uncleeurope wasn't too good at it.
Erm.. just for clarity, is "EST" the same as Forum Time? Like is it around 12.57 EST when I post this, or should I be accounting for summertime somehow? Thanks!
I think you have it right, this is why I dislike dealing with this. I assumed everyone's "forum time" automatically set to their current time zone. Is everyone's forum really set to EST?
This post was just before joth challenged DatSwan. Scumreading DatSwan so strongly (his post just before was a "100%" sure scumread) knowing joth is looking for someone to challenge just seems illogical for scum!MiX here.1) All the skum is within [Ari, Swan, Chairs, ADK, GK, Glooble, Space, EFHW]... which is either 2/8 or 3/8
2) Some amount of skum is within the same pool, and another is within [Joth, Mix, Galz, faust]
Why is it either 2/8 or 3/8?
The overall post is a really big stretch to scumread ICs. Yeah, I want Swan to claim here.
Vote: Swan
Question for everyone: What is the scum motivation for ADK to suggest a promoter claim right at the beginning of the game?
Space?
Is MiX being given a pass for bussing? It seems like he is being accused of bussing. Maybe you mean giving him a pass on the assumption that he wouldn't bus so hard?Space?
So yeah, it seems like I've kind of talked myself into the position that scum have been seen to have bussed pretty consistently and aggressively in this game, so I don't think giving MiX a pass just for his bussing is a good idea. Gkrieg tried constructing a scum narrative around ADK and didn't manage even though his survival more or less depended on it, which is also worth considering retrospectively.
ADK also didn't manage to make much of case against MiX, and his life depends on it.
ADK also didn't manage to make much of case against MiX, and his life depends on it.
I mean, it's hard for me because for me the case against mix is "there's literally no one else it can be", so I had to go back and look for things that I hoped would convince you two. If what I found doesn't convince you then that's one thing, but if you saying I'm not putting forth effort then that's patently ridiculous.
ADK also didn't manage to make much of case against MiX, and his life depends on it.
I mean, it's hard for me because for me the case against mix is "there's literally no one else it can be", so I had to go back and look for things that I hoped would convince you two. If what I found doesn't convince you then that's one thing, but if you saying I'm not putting forth effort then that's patently ridiculous.
Huh, that's my case too! That and the way you backed off Swan: take a look at #951, can you explain in superb detail what you were thinking? Not that it matters, I guess you won't say "I felt like making a big reread to scumread joth and townread my partner, I thought that was something scum wouldn't really do there, I have to thank chairs for bussing Swan right after so we wouldn't get completely PoEd" but I would still like an answer.
I didn't mean that.ADK also didn't manage to make much of case against MiX, and his life depends on it.
I mean, it's hard for me because for me the case against mix is "there's literally no one else it can be", so I had to go back and look for things that I hoped would convince you two. If what I found doesn't convince you then that's one thing, but if you saying I'm not putting forth effort then that's patently ridiculous.
I didn't mean that.ADK also didn't manage to make much of case against MiX, and his life depends on it.
I mean, it's hard for me because for me the case against mix is "there's literally no one else it can be", so I had to go back and look for things that I hoped would convince you two. If what I found doesn't convince you then that's one thing, but if you saying I'm not putting forth effort then that's patently ridiculous.
It's because he knows how swan is going to flip and is trying to build up towncred while he can.
MiX was scumreading DatSwan from his 1st post Day 2. What is the scum narrative for that? What motivated taking the risk?It's because he knows how swan is going to flip and is trying to build up towncred while he can.
How would scum know Swan's dropping early D2? It would be much better if Galz was challenged, or faust, or I don't know, who else was joth scumreading? Absolutely no reason to push for Swan there, look, it puts scum in LyLo at best where both scum are heavily under fire.
MiX was scumreading DatSwan from his 1st post Day 2. What is the scum narrative for that? What motivated taking the risk?
Do we have a definitive deadline at the moment?
"Ehhhh, June 1 10:30 PM EST?
Deadline is tomorrow 10:30 pm
Right you are!Deadline is tomorrow 10:30 pm
Two days (unless you're way ahead of me and it's already friday for you, don't know your timezone)
If you think that the lynch is going to be forced between two other people, casually bussing your partner isn't going to seem as dangerous. And then when joth actually challenged swan, he got caught.
I'm pretty sure I was one of the main reasons why Swan was challenged
All I had to do was sit back and see who joth picked, no need to bus, scum would be in a much better position otherwise.
Also "when Swan was challenged he got caught", do you mean Swan was caught or scum in general?
This last sentence doesn't fit the facts. MiX had 2 posts in a row strongly suspecting DatSwan right before joth picked. So he's not getting caught. He's either genuinely scumhunting or brazenly bussing.MiX was scumreading DatSwan from his 1st post Day 2. What is the scum narrative for that? What motivated taking the risk?
My best guess is that they were trying to compensate for swan defending mix on day one, and he ended up having to double down after joth started running out of potential challenge candidates. If you go back and look at how the day played out, it looked like joth was going to challenge mix, then galz, then faust, all before he gets to datswan. If you think that the lynch is going to be forced between two other people, casually bussing your partner isn't going to seem as dangerous. And then when joth actually challenged swan, he got caught.
I meant that you got caught, having pushed swan and not being in a position backpedal on it.
Here's my question for you, mix: why were you scumreading swan on day 2?
ADK is correct that DatSwan defends MiX a lot. I don't know what to make of it. White knighting seems as likely as protecting a partner.Datswan's posts don't read to me like he has an agenda. My guess is that he was saying what he thought he would say as town, regardless of who his partners were.
Intent to hammer later today.
I've realized that if I vote ADK here, that's the hammer no matter what Space does because ADK reached L-1 first.
Intent to hammer later today.
Yaaaay I snuffed out ADK's will to live! Finally, one day scum has to acknowledge they're wrong, right? Wooooo celebrating before the decision's been made! Emotion will win!
No one has addressed the scum vs. town motivations of ADK proposing the promoter claim early on and mass claim later. How do those narratives go?
No one has addressed the scum vs. town motivations of ADK proposing the promoter claim early on and mass claim later. How do those narratives go?
I mean, the town narrative is that I thought those things would be helpful.
No one has addressed the scum vs. town motivations of ADK proposing the promoter claim early on and mass claim later. How do those narratives go?
I mean, the town narrative is that I thought those things would be helpful.
And the scum narrative is that it's anti-town to do so if there's a town promoter. But I did it too so I can't blame him.
We should massclaim.
I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.
What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims
Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win
Then you changed your mind. It would be helpful to hear how your thoughts developed.No one has addressed the scum vs. town motivations of ADK proposing the promoter claim early on and mass claim later. How do those narratives go?
I mean, the town narrative is that I thought those things would be helpful.
Does this post come from scum or town?We should massclaim.
I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.
What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims
Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win
Scummy:
They forget about traitor, assuming that psychologist's cannot kill target would be IC.
They give Galz IC status prematurely.
Outing vengeful townie and psychologist is good for scum.
If the psychologist thought they could create an IC and that that would be good, they would do it without a mass claim.
Null:
I don't see why vengeful townie only claims if psychologist does.
Towny:
They protect the psychologist somewhat by suggesting they only claim with new information.
Creating ICs is bad for scum.
Their reasoning about bodyguard makes sense, and claiming PRs makes the bodguard's job easier.
I have to go. Maybe more on this later.
For the record, I don't like MiX's reaction to my intent to hammer.
Then you changed your mind. It would be helpful to hear how your thoughts developed.No one has addressed the scum vs. town motivations of ADK proposing the promoter claim early on and mass claim later. How do those narratives go?
I mean, the town narrative is that I thought those things would be helpful.
For the D2 massclaim, the relevant PRs didn't come forward, so I figured they had either better info or different opinions than I did and dropped it. We got basically the same effect D3 so it all worked out.
For the D2 massclaim, the relevant PRs didn't come forward, so I figured they had either better info or different opinions than I did and dropped it. We got basically the same effect D3 so it all worked out.
Wait, this was D2? What was the point for a massclaim D2? It was obvious that bodyguard would protect Tracker, why out more PRs to confuse the bodyguard? D3 was a muuuuch better time for it, given we were winning there and scum couldn't counterclaim anymore.
For the D2 massclaim, the relevant PRs didn't come forward, so I figured they had either better info or different opinions than I did and dropped it. We got basically the same effect D3 so it all worked out.
Wait, this was D2? What was the point for a massclaim D2? It was obvious that bodyguard would protect Tracker, why out more PRs to confuse the bodyguard? D3 was a muuuuch better time for it, given we were winning there and scum couldn't counterclaim anymore.
We didn't know we were going to lynch scum D2 and be in the that position. The D2 massclaim would have still given us really good PoE.
For the D2 massclaim, the relevant PRs didn't come forward, so I figured they had either better info or different opinions than I did and dropped it. We got basically the same effect D3 so it all worked out.
Wait, this was D2? What was the point for a massclaim D2? It was obvious that bodyguard would protect Tracker, why out more PRs to confuse the bodyguard? D3 was a muuuuch better time for it, given we were winning there and scum couldn't counterclaim anymore.
We didn't know we were going to lynch scum D2 and be in the that position. The D2 massclaim would have still given us really good PoE.
But scum could counterclaim there. Clearly PRs didn't have a great result they wanted to claim, so why out them? We would be in a worse position regardless of the alignment of who would get lynched D2.
EFHW, that post's just the next logical step town had to do. Nothing towny or scummy. If you assume Galz is town (which was a fair assumption at the time) then there's no contradictions in his post.How are you going to get your awesome towncred back?
Sorry if you don't like my early celebration of victory, I'm just realizing how bad giving a pass to ADK was and I want to get my awesone towncred back.
MiX, are you the vengeful townie?
EFHW, that post's just the next logical step town had to do. Nothing towny or scummy. If you assume Galz is town (which was a fair assumption at the time) then there's no contradictions in his post.How are you going to get your awesome towncred back?
Sorry if you don't like my early celebration of victory, I'm just realizing how bad giving a pass to ADK was and I want to get my awesone towncred back.
MiX, are you the vengeful townie?
That would reconcile all my reads. You and MiX would be town, Space would be scum. MiX gets lynched, kills Space, town wins. Or you could be vengeful townie.
Grasping at straws.
No, ADK returned a can't kill result. MiX knows I'm leaning toward voting ADK. So he isn't planning some dramatic denouement.
vote: ADK L-1
Space? Any thoughts?
I guess at this point, it's up to you to convince EFHW. Otherwise, congrats mix.
We have 14 more hours here
Sorry... I started my big read-through hours ago, but then got distracted trying to tick lots of things off my todo list since I have a free day. I realise I have been terrible this game :-(
MiX is behaving quite differently to the other game I played with him. I think that's a really good thing! But it also tells me that he's quickly adaptive, so if we're in a situation where we know we have a dveious bussy scum, I just think the chances are higher that it's him rather than ADK. Though I don't know ADK particularly well. EFHW, given that there's recently-unearthed footage showing that you may have met ADK in person, do you have more of a read on his personality with respect to deviousness?
We have bussy scum, but do we have devious bussy scum? I don't think scum bussed a lot after D1, and even then they protected ADK a lot that day. Also, thank you, and remember last game I was SK so being different doesn't mean anything too specific here.
We have bussy scum, but do we have devious bussy scum? I don't think scum bussed a lot after D1, and even then they protected ADK a lot that day. Also, thank you, and remember last game I was SK so being different doesn't mean anything too specific here.
There are loads of examples of bussing after D1! Why would you even think it's worth making the statement that you don't think they bussed much after D1?
1) You and ADK were both voting Swan in D2, so that's guaranteed bussing there.
2) Chairs bussed Swan right up to his lynch on D2.
3) You and ADK were both voting Chairs D3, so someone was bussing.
One big voting pattern difference between you and ADK is that you and Chairs voted for each other on D4, whereas ADK didn't cast a single vote that day. I feel like that's kind of a show of you and Chairs bussing each other. To me, that feels at least as likely as it would be for ADK just to have floated off, leaving his buddy to get lynched without even cashing in on it (in what we already know is a high-bussing game), or even voting somewhere else.
Just a heads up, space, unless EFHW changes her vote then I'm getting lynched no matter what.
(Also I'm a they if you don't mind)
Also I'm a they if you don't mind
Also I'm a they if you don't mind
Ah, very sorry! I will do better!
Also I'm a they if you don't mind
Ah, very sorry! I will do better!
No worries
I'm sticking with ADK.
1. That was beautiful
2. We won! Hooray!
3. I can’t believe MiX was town.
Yay!
1. That was beautiful
2. We won! Hooray!
3. I can’t believe MiX was town.
speccy (https://quicktopic.com/52/H/7AFZGhhwRVM)
mod (https://quicktopic.com/52/H/wq6EyhjNjYsq)
scum (https://quicktopic.com/52/H/PZYYmh7ArFpPp)
Congrats town for winning! I will leave a choice for MVP to Eddie, and I also liked a setup very much. Feel free to share individual QTs.
In other news, I am probably disappearing from forum for quite some time, have fun here!
In other news, I am probably disappearing from forum for quite some time, have fun here!
Eddie, how interested are you in ever running this setup again?
So I was the lynchee?
Galz is my vote for mvp
That being said, Galzria not only used his ability successfully twice, (technically three times) he also was the first person to start poking the ADK Lynchee theory IIRC. Very solid play.
Galzria is MVP
Not sure how much you can credit Galzria for promoting town that picked correctly, but I do agree he played the best regardless.
In other news, I am probably disappearing from forum for quite some time, have fun here![/color][/b]
Galz is my vote for mvp
Galz is my vote for mvp
EFHW is my MVP and personal saviour!
Eddie, how interested are you in ever running this setup again?
Very interested, especially if other people are interested. (Although I think I want to fiddle a bit first)
Eddie, how interested are you in ever running this setup again?
Very interested, especially if other people are interested. (Although I think I want to fiddle a bit first)
Well as other people have said, this option in particular (and possibly some of the other ones) was pretty rough on scum, I think there should be some consideration to making claims less IC-making, giving scum some defense against the PRs, and/or making the investigation results less reliable.