Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Swowl]

I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also town

I mean obviously we would all agree with this assumption (at least I think). The premise being discussed is that Rae (in some opinions) was the skummiest of the wagon options.

I have no idea what this means, but it certainly has nothing to do with the point I was making.

I was being moderately sarcastic, sorry.

[faust]

So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?

Vote: DatSwan

[Joseph2302]

No need to lynch me now, this has just killed me.

I'm over 30 by at least a teenager.

For ari, this is me asking Joseph for information and him not being there.  You and shraeye were discussing, please continue.

Joseph, why should we join you in voting for Debate?  Also, is it safe to assume you're just going to ignore these two posts?  If so, can you please explain why you're actively avoiding answering questions.

@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045?

I asked you for the logic/math behind 2 people on MiX are scummy and your reply in #1020 doesn't answer my question about how you came to that conclusion. Can you elaborate as I am trying to understand why?

Okay so that wagon analysis is just a long case on why they think EFHW is scummy
With one mention of faust being teeny
Frankly it didn't need the 4 massive long posts
Although #1044 also makes a point I already made- 4 wagons and the one that didn't get traction near the end was the raerae one. Which looks bad as the wagons look bad

[Joseph2302]

And I did already say. The MiX wagon was scummy as fuck. He was clearly just an enthusiastic newbie, which makes me confident that (experienced) scum just jumped on the wagon to help the mislynch

As I think the wagon was super scummy, I think it's likely to have more than 1 scum on it. I don't think 6 town could actually have found him scummy rather than just a newbie

[faust]

And I did already say. The MiX wagon was scummy as fuck. He was clearly just an enthusiastic newbie, which makes me confident that (experienced) scum just jumped on the wagon to help the mislynch

As I think the wagon was super scummy, I think it's likely to have more than 1 scum on it. I don't think 6 town could actually have found him scummy rather than just a newbie

If 1 town found him scummy, why couldn't 6?

[silverspawn]

If one of six dice landed up with 'two' on top, why couldn't all six?

[faust]

If one of six dice landed up with 'two' on top, why couldn't all six?

Not sure whether you are supporting my point or arguing against it.

[silverspawn]

Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.

[faust]

Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.

Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.

[Swowl]

So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?

Vote: DatSwan

I am sorry for the order in which I answer your questions?

If you read my response you will note the part about it being sarcastic, thus indicating that I assumed the logic behind the original statement was obvious (thus sarcasm). Not being sarcastic - maybe you need to read over my original response? My point was fairly straightforwardly a jokey-type statement.

[faust]

So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?

Vote: DatSwan

I am sorry for the order in which I answer your questions?

If you read my response you will note the part about it being sarcastic, thus indicating that I assumed the logic behind the original statement was obvious (thus sarcasm). Not being sarcastic - maybe you need to read over my original response? My point was fairly straightforwardly a jokey-type statement.

This is the question I was referring to:

DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:

3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.

to here:

Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

Are you saying that your raerae vote was a joke.

[Swowl]

DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:

3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.

to here:

Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.

[Swowl]

So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?

Vote: DatSwan

I am sorry for the order in which I answer your questions?

If you read my response you will note the part about it being sarcastic, thus indicating that I assumed the logic behind the original statement was obvious (thus sarcasm). Not being sarcastic - maybe you need to read over my original response? My point was fairly straightforwardly a jokey-type statement.

This is the question I was referring to:

DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:

3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.

to here:

Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

Are you saying that your raerae vote was a joke.

i answered in two quotes (PPE) (sorry it wasn't the first one I did) (that was a joke)

[Swowl]

Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.

Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.

So you think we should look for skum off of the day 1 wagon?

[faust]

Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.

Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.

So you think we should look for skum off of the day 1 wagon?

I don't think on/off wagon is a useful distinction for scumhunting today.

[faust]

DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:

3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.

to here:

Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.

I. e. you have to come up with a convincing narrative first.

[Debatepro]

And I did already say. The MiX wagon was scummy as fuck. He was clearly just an enthusiastic newbie, which makes me confident that (experienced) scum just jumped on the wagon to help the mislynch

As I think the wagon was super scummy, I think it's likely to have more than 1 scum on it. I don't think 6 town could actually have found him scummy rather than just a newbie

I'm trying to understand why this looked scummy as F. I also, don't think the question about how one can conclude there are two scum on MiX is answered or at least the analysis is substandard.

1. The mason who is an experienced player and their likely partner voted for MiX. My newb understanding is they get to talk in private about what they are seeing, engage in cooperative analysis, among other things. So respected town voted for MiX. You are ignoring this ~fact when stating "at least 2 scum are on MiX... and aserting it's scummy as F." 

2. In my assessment at least 3 people on MiX are town so why can't there be more. Only scum would know how many town where on MiX.

3. I thought the constant questions, flip-flopping the votes, jumping from newly forming wagon to wagon, the IRL FoS, etc. where highly suspect for a non-newb. He claimed to have played online mafia in a quicker format, he claimed to read previous games and know players meta, he had the right vocabulary of someone who shouldn't be treated as a newb, and yet you are overselling his newbness. If one does not code MiX newb, then it is ~reasonable to see why his behaviors could be interpreted as scum. I can see if one gave him newb status why one would view this behavior as less scummy on the spectrum, but not scummy at all? I mean scummy as F is like it is obvious to all that there is a near zero percent chance MiX is scum.

I am actually the only newb in this game (Ari played IRL) meaning I have never played in any form, I did not read any games, I did not read mafia strategy [sans to look up a couple words], my only experience is an explanation of how to play the game from my IRL partner, and discussion with them about some of their previous games at the time they were being played.

IF one is town
AND there is a chance all or all but one of the people on MiX are town
AND ignoring the fact that mason(s) were on MiX
WHILE saying the MiX wagon was scummy as F
THEN this is a dangerous/careless position for a town to take.   

[EFHW]

My response to DatSwan:

1. Ari asked when to think about switching votes to prevent no lynch. I answered him saying in general consolidating votes is good, but switching just for that reason can wait until close to the deadline. DatSwan then suggests that I was being hypocritical in not consolidating my vote. I was very clear about where I stood. I did not feel raerae or MiX were scum and had no interest in voting them. Therefore, I did not "consolidate" by joining their wagons. I looked around for alternatives, starting with LL, which obviously did not work out, and then settling on mail-mi for a time. I was 4th on that wagon, which in any case counts as consolidating in my book.

DatSwan brings up consolidating again because I voted for Shraeye kind of last minute, implying again that I am being hypocritical. I do not think I am responsible for holding my voting behavior to exact correspondence with general advice I gave a new player. I believed MiX would be a mislynch, which he was, so any other lynch of an unknown was preferable. DatSwan thinks I knew about Shraeye as LL's likely partner, but in fact I was unaware of that. He also criticizes me for unvoting Shraeye once I found out, which makes little sense to me.

2. DatSwan says my reasons for not voting MiX weren't "real." What is a real reason? MiX was being voted because of his playing style. I stated my reasons for disagreeing that his playstyle was scummy. That seems straightforward to me.

3. DatSwan says that because raerae was scummier than mail-mi, I should have been voting raerae. I didn't find her scummy. I have actually played with her before, so presumably I have some basis for my townread. It's not scummy for me not to vote for raerae.

4. DatSwan says I voted Shraeye to get town points for jumping off a town wagon (MiX's). I wasn't on that wagon until 5 minutes before deadline. I didn't "jump off" anything.

5. DatSwan implies that my being on MiX's wagon at all was scummy. I think it was perfectly clear that I voted MiX because there were 5 minutes left and we needed a lynch.

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

[EFHW]

DatSwan's posts start here:

[faust]

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

So is the reason for your vote OMGUS, or something else as well?

[faust]

By the way Swan, can you explain how this:

I will be here at the deadline tomorrow

Same I think

Ditto I’m around.

fits in with the fact that you did not post in the 24 hours leading up to the deadline?

[EFHW]

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

So is the reason for your vote OMGUS, or something else as well?

Did you read my post? I think making a case this bad on anyone counts as scummy behavior. I was just about to post something else as well, though, which is that he repeatedly tries to make raerae's scumminess seem a general consensus. It obviously is not, or she would be lynched. That is scummy behavior on DatSwan's part.

[arishipshape]

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

The mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.

And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.

vote: DatSwan

[EFHW]

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

The mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.

And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.

vote: DatSwan

That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.

[arishipshape]

This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwan

The mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.

And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.

vote: DatSwan

That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.

Ok. Unless you want to dismantle your own argument, my vote stands.