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[WestCoastDidds]

My role allowed me to learn that DatSwan targeted Space on N1 and Ashersky on N2. Since she was a jailkeeper, that both protected and blocked them.

I already shared the Asher info earlier when we were talking about N2, but the Space info wasn’t relevant until now.

[jotheonah]

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

You must be Canadian.

Scottish living in England, so I guess in general that's kind of being Canadian and living in the US?

(I assume your comment has something to do with episode schedules, but I'm not actually sure when they appear where!).

In the US, Disco isn’t on Netflix. We have to watch it on CBS All Access. Idk why I went with Canada. I forgot that Everyone else in the world gets a better deal.

Re: your post about my post about WCD. I’m very sensitive to your point. But it is in the nature of the game to scrutinize everyone and consider how everyone might be scum. I don’t love to scumread someone for being nice — in fact, I like it when people are nice! But you can see how giving people a town pass for being nice would be a bad idea strategically.

Also, not caught up, just popping in.

[jotheonah]

mail-mi, are you an AI?

I’m pretty stoked mail-mi lynch is back on the menu, but I’m not feeling great about how it’s happening. What do people think, theoretically, about a Space-WCD team?

[mail-mi]

mail-mi, are you an AI?

I’m pretty stoked mail-mi lynch is back on the menu, but I’m not feeling great about how it’s happening. What do people think, theoretically, about a Space-WCD team?

Why should I answer this?

[jotheonah]

mail-mi, are you an AI?

I’m pretty stoked mail-mi lynch is back on the menu, but I’m not feeling great about how it’s happening. What do people think, theoretically, about a Space-WCD team?

Why should I answer this?

Why should I answer your question about why you should answer my question?

[mail-mi]

mail-mi, are you an AI?

I’m pretty stoked mail-mi lynch is back on the menu, but I’m not feeling great about how it’s happening. What do people think, theoretically, about a Space-WCD team?

Why should I answer this?

Why should I answer your question about why you should answer my question?

Because I don't know if that's information that I should share quite yet. It's probably important to the set up.

[2.71828.....]

(@e, aren't you in the it's-just-past-0430 timezone??)

Yeah, I had gone to bed, but woke up with a stuffed up nose needing to sit upright to get it to drain some.

[2.71828.....]

Also, if claims are happening by people other than Space, my preferred order is:

Space
Mail-mi
Others

Just because things are confusing for space because of what they know doesn't mean they just get a pass to claim last. That's not how this works

[faust]

Vote Count 3.3

jotheonah (1): Awaclus
mail-mi (3): Haddock, SpaceAnemonae, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (5): mail-mi, 2.71828....., Glooble, jotheonah, ashersky

Not Voting (1): UmbrageOfSnow

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends on February 07, 2019, 01:00:00 am.

[ashersky]

SA’s reaction to being at L1 is not towny. Continually pointing to “random other player doesn’t want the day to end too soon” is such a non-reason for anything. 

Plus, no NK and SA was jailed?  That’s also a thing.

And refusal to claim “to keep the info from scum” is not towny. 

All in all, hammer time.

[Haddock]

Here's some weird super-early something re Space:

Townread on space. I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Or maybe it's just a spaceread on space.

Man, this is such a crappy wagon. Let's join a different one.

Vote: Galzria

ok vote: galzria

Like, either this is weeeeirrrddd hedgey white-knighting or it's scum trying to subliminally make people feel good about their partner.  Or it's just mail-mi being mail-mi, I dunno.  It's bizarre though, and I don't like it.  Like, really.  Surely everyone discusses the setup early in the game, there's nothing else to talk about.  How do you give townpoints for this?  Meh.

@Haddock, this quote from Mail-mi should be enough to tell you that he and I are not partners. You saw how badly past!Mail-mi's misgendering of me affected my play: you even had to step in and threaten penalties as a mod if he didn't show more consideration. You saw in person how distraught I was about it at the time, and you know it almost drove me off f.ds in the beginning. There is no way I wouldn't have set him straight right off the bat in a scum QT if there was one available.

This is interesting:

I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Okay, let's get this out of the way: I AM NOT, AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, A "HE"!!! Sorry for being shouty, but while you've been gone, the whole forum has got a lot more progressive about respecting people's gender presentation and pronouns, and I'd really like to keep that progress!

My preferred pronoun is they/them, and it's even in my sig line to help people remember. I'll settle for she/her in general, and especially for this game, since it's very in keeping for the flavour.

WOOPS sorry about that.

Townread on space, I remember her doing this setup stuff as town

I would be willing to exclude the possibility of both mail-mi and Space being scum based on this interaction alone.  If they have a shared QT then mail-mi already knows Space's gender.  And I don't see scum!Space being willing to fake something like this.

Did you read my posts?
I don't believe both you and mail-mi can be scum.
But I do think one of you is likely to be.

Your points re mail-mi have also already been covered by others. We agree that mail-mi is scummy. Trouble is you're scummy too.

I don’t like the Space wagon at all. I think she’s town and I trust her. Let’s definitely see what she has to say.

The folks on her are mail-mi, e, Glooble, and Joth. The last two votes I think are town, the first two are my most suspicious. I haven’t had time to go back and do a thorough reread, but L-2 on a weekend, five days before the day ends...I don’t like it. It feel hurried to me, and makes me feel like I don’t have time to go back and gather my thoughts.

I would love to hear any reasons you have for finding space towny.

I mean that most sincerely, I'm struggling to see clearly here. 

I have found her to be incredibly consistent, and she has good reasons for the things that she’s done, especially in ways that help town. The votes on Mcmc were to encourage her to engage, and she was consistently challenging me on why I found lurking scummy. She was vocal about her LL suspicions, but used the time between when LL’s wagon was almost certain and when she was lynched to continue scumhuntibg. She explored Glooble’s positions in depth in her exchange with you, pointing out flaws in logic but still concluding she was towny. It would have been easy to use the math and logic language to confuse folks enough to put a vote there. She didn’t try to derail the LL lynch at all. The MM vote helped seal LL’s fate. Asher nailed it correctly as a Hail Mary, and LL must have seen his intake because he self-hammered.

I also find her willingness to engage in issues of gender both true to herself and towny. I’m not sure that as scum she’d want to be that confrontational. She challenged MM in misgendering, UoS on calling us ladies, and asking Joth to consider that my communication style might be more feminine than scummy...and in a masculine communication environment where different might be read as scum, noting that feminine patterns are the norm for some of us (me), is if use to town. If she was scum it would have been an easy way to push for me.

I just haven’t found her to be shifty or flighty at all, and more helpful than not helpful. So, town.

Mmm. This helps, but consistency and helpfulness are not town traits. Especially not for Space.

Also, claiming to have a scum read on LL, but not voting, is arguably scummier than just claiming a town read. This is one of the big points driving space's lynch. You said that the votes on space aren't made of much, so I guess you disagree on that in particular?

[Haddock]

I'm not going to hammer yet.
Space isn't saying they won't claim, just that they want to think about it. We have plenty of time. I want to give them the opportunity to claim fully.

The claim doesn't look great.
I want to note for posterity the oddness with WCD. Like, WCD only announced that space was blocked after space claimed to have been blocked?
A) why wouldn't WCD bring that up earlier? It obviously points to space being scum.
B) it feels like something the two of them have cooked up, but that makes no sense whatsoever; surely the two of them would know that this was going to make space look worse, not better.

[Haddock]

Crickets.
Anything, anyone?

[Haddock]

I guess I'll respond to joth's thought about a potential space-wcd team.
I am not excluding it. Indeed I have had similar thoughts. They have been defending each other more than I would tend to expect from two townies.

However:
A) let's not start trying to tie together 2 people as scum when we don't know the alignment of either of them.
B) while I find space scummy I don't find wcd particularly scummy.
C) I can definitely see this kind of defensiveness arising between two players on the basis of the sorts of things space has talked about; namely gender stuff. Tbey are two players who have both been found scummy at one time or another for their occasional feminine-coded behaviour. (to be clear I do not think that that is why I am finding either of them at all scummy this game, but it is something that has been discussed in the past)
That kind of shared experience of bias could definitely cause them to band together more than they might otherwise, regardless of their alignments.

[Glooble]

I just woke up.

I don’t think a quick hammer here helps anyone, and ash’s pushing for it makes me nervous, especially since ash could (presumably) just shoot her if she felt so strongly but instead she’s trying to get someone to hammer.

I have a suspicion about why ash is acting this way, but I’m not sure it’s pro-town to share it at this time.

[Glooble]

I also agree with e that if we’re claiming, Space should go first.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

Haddock- I will try to address the percieved oddness in my play. My timing of sharing the information I had about her from N1....it hadn’t come up today. She hadn’t said anything about thwarted attempts, nor has anyone else said much about night ations being blocked, etc. We have talked very little about DatSwan being a jailkeeper. In fact, I might be one of the only people who mentioned it in my first post today....that one that motivated people the find me scummy.

When I shared the DatSwan info about Ashes, it set off a conversation about not claiming yet. So, it certainly seemed like no one thought it was a good time to keep sharing information and there was no reason to add additional information at that time.

As to being something we cooked up....yeah, no. If we were working in concert, I don’t think we’d have made the moves that both of us are having to defend ourselves for (the LL wagon). It doesn’t make any sense. I also don’t know why it would help me at all to share information that can’t be verified. I already feel super vulnerable as a result and am worried about sharing too much. Also, Space didn’t know that I was aware she was JK’ed. I suppose that she has worked out now how that information became known to me.

I’ll wait to share more until she has had a chance to say her piece, but hammering her is a mistake. And her wagon deserves scrutiny, the quick ramp up and unannounced L-1 late on a Saturday are yuck, yuck, yucky.

[Glooble]

By "credible" I simply mean a claim. Any claim. Like role, what you do, is it x-shot, x-night, or standard every night?

Claiming "I was blocked" (even having it confirmed) doesn't do anything to convince me that you are town

I don't foresee my claim satisfying you, so I may as well leave my role a mystery to scum, which ultimately helps town. That was certainly my logic when I wrote the first "claim" bit in the L-2 the post.

I don’t understand what you’re saying here. If we lynch you, everyone finds out your role anyway . Why not tell us now when it could save you as opposed to letting us find out when it’s too late. You don’t know what information everyone in the town has. How can you know that claiming won’t exonerate you?

[Glooble]

unvote for now because I don’t want a hammer to fall before Space gives us more info, and also for reasons I’d rather not share atm.

[Haddock]

Good morning!

Haddock- I will try to address the percieved oddness in my play. My timing of sharing the information I had about her from N1....it hadn’t come up today. She hadn’t said anything about thwarted attempts, nor has anyone else said much about night ations being blocked, etc. We have talked very little about DatSwan being a jailkeeper. In fact, I might be one of the only people who mentioned it in my first post today....that one that motivated people the find me scummy.

When I shared the DatSwan info about Ashes, it set off a conversation about not claiming yet. So, it certainly seemed like no one thought it was a good time to keep sharing information and there was no reason to add additional information at that time.

As to being something we cooked up....yeah, no. If we were working in concert, I don’t think we’d have made the moves that both of us are having to defend ourselves for (the LL wagon). It doesn’t make any sense. I also don’t know why it would help me at all to share information that can’t be verified. I already feel super vulnerable as a result and am worried about sharing too much. Also, Space didn’t know that I was aware she was JK’ed. I suppose that she has worked out now how that information became known to me.

I’ll wait to share more until she has had a chance to say her piece, but hammering her is a mistake. And her wagon deserves scrutiny, the quick ramp up and unannounced L-1 late on a Saturday are yuck, yuck, yucky.

This is a good post.

But unfortunately you explaining your motivations, while helpful, doesn't really deal with the fact that you only made this claim, corroborating Space's story about being blocked, after space claimed that. You have to see why that looks slightly fishy; and no amount of explaining your motivations can really help with that.

But I still think that in spite of my gut it is unlikely that the two of you are acting together, see my previous post.


Direct question for you, WCD, which your post doesn't really address: when space was blocked n1 and then there was no night kill, why did this not arouse your suspicions? It really should have. Can you explain now why that fact isn't making you feel scummy about space? Or do you have such a strong town read that you feel it overrides this?

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth— why do you think MM might be an AI? Why does that matter?

[WestCoastDidds]

Direct question for you, WCD, which your post doesn't really address: when space was blocked n1 and then there was no night kill, why did this not arouse your suspicions? It really should have. Can you explain now why that fact isn't making you feel scummy about space? Or do you have such a strong town read that you feel it overrides this?

Some of this is a timing thing....I wasn’t always aware of the value of the information when I had it. And some of it is honest to goodness newb understanding....I didnt actually know what jailkeeping was. I was more focused on the part where she couldn’t be killed than the part where she was blocked. I assumed that there was no NK on N1 because she had been kept safe from the kill.

If we were acting together, you can be sure that I’d be taking direction and we both know that Space is too smart me direct me to do dumb stuff. She’d also have made sure that I actually knew what I knew and likely what to do with that information.

[Haddock]

Direct question for you, WCD, which your post doesn't really address: when space was blocked n1 and then there was no night kill, why did this not arouse your suspicions? It really should have. Can you explain now why that fact isn't making you feel scummy about space? Or do you have such a strong town read that you feel it overrides this?

Some of this is a timing thing....I wasn’t always aware of the value of the information when I had it. And some of it is honest to goodness newb understanding....I didnt actually know what jailkeeping was. I was more focused on the part where she couldn’t be killed than the part where she was blocked. I assumed that there was no NK on N1 because she had been kept safe from the kill.

If we were acting together, you can be sure that I’d be taking direction and we both know that Space is too smart me direct me to do dumb stuff. She’d also have made sure that I actually knew what I knew and likely what to do with that information.

Hmm.
Conversely I admit I had forgotten that JKing is just as likely to protect someone from a kill as to stop them from performing a kill.

I still want a claim from Space.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmm.
Conversely I admit I had forgotten that JKing is just as likely to protect someone from a kill as to stop them from performing a kill.

Thank you for not making me feel like a dummy!

[ashersky]

vote: Glooble/b]