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[SpaceAnemone]

Here's some weird super-early something re Space:

Townread on space. I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Or maybe it's just a spaceread on space.

Man, this is such a crappy wagon. Let's join a different one.

Vote: Galzria

ok vote: galzria

Like, either this is weeeeirrrddd hedgey white-knighting or it's scum trying to subliminally make people feel good about their partner.  Or it's just mail-mi being mail-mi, I dunno.  It's bizarre though, and I don't like it.  Like, really.  Surely everyone discusses the setup early in the game, there's nothing else to talk about.  How do you give townpoints for this?  Meh.

@Haddock, this quote from Mail-mi should be enough to tell you that he and I are not partners. You saw how badly past!Mail-mi's misgendering of me affected my play: you even had to step in and threaten penalties as a mod if he didn't show more consideration. You saw in person how distraught I was about it at the time, and you know it almost drove me off f.ds in the beginning. There is no way I wouldn't have set him straight right off the bat in a scum QT if there was one available.

@Mail-mi, I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack. I know that you didn't really seem to have much experience to draw on with the issue of misgendering at the time, and that you're proportionally quite a lot older now that you've returned, so I do think you deserve a clean slate on this one now.

[SpaceAnemone]

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

I don't like the sound of this post. It gives off a "you caught me, but let me come back and defend myself just in case" feeling to me.

i am now more comfortable with my vote.

I have to say, I liked Joth's response to my post better, even though I don't quite follow what he means.

The actual correct interpretation of my post was "lots of interesting and potentially disastrous (for town!!) stuff is going on, but i have zero time to engage right now".

How would you have worded it? If I'd read the thread and posted nothing, someone may well have looked at when I'd been online, noted in-thread that I'd been in but hadn't posted, concluded I was guilty and staying quiet, and hammered. Since by that point I had read the thread and seen that people are voting for me, I had to post something. My day has been busy. I got home at 17.55 from a 3.5-hour outing to a rehearsal and home via a supermarket. I had a friend turning up at 18.00 for an evening of food and Netflix, and it wasn't a date, but this friend is still someone I'd feel guilty about not paying attention to for long enough to interact with a game. What wording would you prefer for me to use to indicate all that?

[SpaceAnemone]

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

You must be Canadian.

Scottish living in England, so I guess in general that's kind of being Canadian and living in the US?

(I assume your comment has something to do with episode schedules, but I'm not actually sure when they appear where!).

[mail-mi]

Here's some weird super-early something re Space:

Townread on space. I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Or maybe it's just a spaceread on space.

Man, this is such a crappy wagon. Let's join a different one.

Vote: Galzria

ok vote: galzria

Like, either this is weeeeirrrddd hedgey white-knighting or it's scum trying to subliminally make people feel good about their partner.  Or it's just mail-mi being mail-mi, I dunno.  It's bizarre though, and I don't like it.  Like, really.  Surely everyone discusses the setup early in the game, there's nothing else to talk about.  How do you give townpoints for this?  Meh.

@Haddock, this quote from Mail-mi should be enough to tell you that he and I are not partners. You saw how badly past!Mail-mi's misgendering of me affected my play: you even had to step in and threaten penalties as a mod if he didn't show more consideration. You saw in person how distraught I was about it at the time, and you know it almost drove me off f.ds in the beginning. There is no way I wouldn't have set him straight right off the bat in a scum QT if there was one available.

@Mail-mi, I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack. I know that you didn't really seem to have much experience to draw on with the issue of misgendering at the time, and that you're proportionally quite a lot older now that you've returned, so I do think you deserve a clean slate on this one now.

i want to apologize again for that, that was very inconsiderate of me at the time and it was at the beginning of the game too. also, thanks for the clean slate.

[mail-mi]

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

I don't like the sound of this post. It gives off a "you caught me, but let me come back and defend myself just in case" feeling to me.

i am now more comfortable with my vote.

I have to say, I liked Joth's response to my post better, even though I don't quite follow what he means.

The actual correct interpretation of my post was "lots of interesting and potentially disastrous (for town!!) stuff is going on, but i have zero time to engage right now".

How would you have worded it? If I'd read the thread and posted nothing, someone may well have looked at when I'd been online, noted in-thread that I'd been in but hadn't posted, concluded I was guilty and staying quiet, and hammered. Since by that point I had read the thread and seen that people are voting for me, I had to post something. My day has been busy. I got home at 17.55 from a 3.5-hour outing to a rehearsal and home via a supermarket. I had a friend turning up at 18.00 for an evening of food and Netflix, and it wasn't a date, but this friend is still someone I'd feel guilty about not paying attention to for long enough to interact with a game. What wording would you prefer for me to use to indicate all that?

I honestly don't know. Even something like "I've been busy, please don't hammer, I have important things to say" would have sounded (read?) better, at least to my ears (eyes?). I was just talking about the first part of the post, not the second part where you explained why you were busy. (Scumreading you for being busy would be very hypocritical of me). "Argh... thanks for not hammering" sounds to me like "argh, you caught me... but don't kill me yet I have things to say."

It was a pretty minor thing in my scumread on you anyway.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm about to do an automated vote count, but before I do, I should actually get my vote down:

Vote: Mail-mi

The Mail-mi factors I'm considering:
1. LL voted Mail-mi briefly early on before moving off quickly, which is a great way to break the how-to-interact-with-partners thing.
2. They were both on the joth wagon on D1. LL had just been scum with Joth in M120, so I can see him being keen on not having a recent scumbuddy in the game.
3. They did not interact on any of the same wagons D2 (MM was mostly on Joth, and LL on e).
4. Mail-mi defended LL's claim, asking what motivation scum!LL would have had for claiming that.

And the major one:

5. LL did vote for Mail-mi near the very end of D2, when WCD and I were seeing what would happen there. Importantly, there were perfect scum bus conditions in effect, and yet nobody (other than LL) moved from LL to MM when that wagon was in place, which suggests a fryingpan-fire sort of situation to me, where MM isn't actually the right wagon to coax scum off onto, because he's scum too.

Bonus fact: Mail-mi only put down one vote on D2, and it was on Joth. If people think I'm scummy for not having reached the point of voting for LL before he hammered himself, I feel that in order to be consistent, they should think that Mail-mi is even more scummy: he was clearly around online at the correct sort of time (unlike me), actively defending LL (unlike me), and not voting LL.

[SpaceAnemone]

Here's the space-count as of #1130:

Glooble (1): ashersky
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
mail-mi (2): Haddock, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (4): mail-mi, 2.71828....., Glooble, jotheonah
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I'm sorry everyone, I'm almost wondering if I shouldn't have agreed to sub in, I'm a bit sick, I've got a few other things to deal with and I've been distracting myself all day instead of powering through some of the stuff in this game.

I really don't want us to have a fast day, I want to get in here and contribute but honestly I've barely scratched this and I've been useless for the last like 2 hours and I should just go to bed.

Guess I shouldn't have picked on Robz

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Don't take this whining to mean I'm going to sub out, I am not, I will get to this, just not today like I promised. And tomorrow I've got some other things I have to take care of, but I should get at least some of the stuff read in here I need to.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t like the Space wagon at all. I think she’s town and I trust her. Let’s definitely see what she has to say.

The folks on her are mail-mi, e, Glooble, and Joth. The last two votes I think are town, the first two are my most suspicious. I haven’t had time to go back and do a thorough reread, but L-2 on a weekend, five days before the day ends...I don’t like it. It feel hurried to me, and makes me feel like I don’t have time to go back and gather my thoughts.

I would love to hear any reasons you have for finding space towny.

I mean that most sincerely, I'm struggling to see clearly here. 

I have found her to be incredibly consistent, and she has good reasons for the things that she’s done, especially in ways that help town. The votes on Mcmc were to encourage her to engage, and she was consistently challenging me on why I found lurking scummy. She was vocal about her LL suspicions, but used the time between when LL’s wagon was almost certain and when she was lynched to continue scumhuntibg. She explored Glooble’s positions in depth in her exchange with you, pointing out flaws in logic but still concluding she was towny. It would have been easy to use the math and logic language to confuse folks enough to put a vote there. She didn’t try to derail the LL lynch at all. The MM vote helped seal LL’s fate. Asher nailed it correctly as a Hail Mary, and LL must have seen his intake because he self-hammered.

I also find her willingness to engage in issues of gender both true to herself and towny. I’m not sure that as scum she’d want to be that confrontational. She challenged MM in misgendering, UoS on calling us ladies, and asking Joth to consider that my communication style might be more feminine than scummy...and in a masculine communication environment where different might be read as scum, noting that feminine patterns are the norm for some of us (me), is if use to town. If she was scum it would have been an easy way to push for me.

I just haven’t found her to be shifty or flighty at all, and more helpful than not helpful. So, town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Umbrage, I hope you feel better

[WestCoastDidds]

Finishing that post, I’m even more convinced of Space’s towncred and note that the votes on her aren’t made of much. The scummiest on the Space wagon, to me, is MM.

Vote: mail-mi

[mail-mi]

I defended and did not vote for Lalight because I believed the claim. I was wrong--that doesn't make me scum. The only reasons I was considering voting for Lalight was because she would soon become not-town-aligned, NOT because I thought she was scum.

Space, on the other hand, did have a strong scum read on Lalight, even saying:

Sure, mail-mi is a would-lynch. I wondered where most of the scrutiny on him from D1 went, though I was voting him for much of that time anyway.

Vote: mail-mi

My main would-lynch is still LL.

I wouldn't lynch Awaclus at this point without a scummy flip from LL of a type that indicates LL was on a team with other scums.

...and yet never voted for Lalight, who was her "main would-lynch." Not putting her money where her mouth is, so to say.

[ashersky]

vote: SA

I say we run them both up and see where it leads. I could do with a credible claim from SA at this point to bump me over to MM.

For context: SA is in-general scummy this game; Mail-mi has scummy bad claims / gameplay.

[SpaceAnemone]

As for claims, I'm at L-2, and as a few reasonable people have pointed out, we still have time before the deadline.

Let's go straight to the source of why I suspect I'm actually getting as much heat as I am. I know I was RBd (or something similar) on N1, because I tried targeting someone, and it wasn't successful. I expect that whoever blocked me saw that there was no NK, and drew an incorrect conclusion. This error will be obvious when I flip, but if another townie has a good explanation for the missing NK that they can give in-thread without revealing too much more than is already out there, then that could prevent a mislynch.

PPE 7 because I'm extremely unsure about what's useful to claim and what's too much and it's after 3am here!

Umbridge, get well soon!!

[2.71828.....]

You are actually L-1 now, and I don't think that was the "credible claim" we were looking for.  Other than admitting that you were blocked so your kill didn't go through

[SpaceAnemone]

vote: SA

I say we run them both up and see where it leads. I could do with a credible claim from SA at this point to bump me over to MM.

For context: SA is in-general scummy this game; Mail-mi has scummy bad claims / gameplay.

I'm accused of sounding scummy pretty much every game.

Also, is "run them both up" mean to imply equal pressure? Somehow you're putting me to unannounced L-1, while leaving Mail-mi on a mere L-3.

Lastly, UoS did ask just a handful of posts ago not to end the day so quickly, so I don't think you're helping him!

PPE: e

[2.71828.....]

Also, the "dead jk targeted me N1" is just as convenient if not more so than mail-mi's cop claim

[WestCoastDidds]

I know that DatSwan jailkept Space on N1 and Ashersky on N2.

[SpaceAnemone]

You are actually L-1 now, and I don't think that was the "credible claim" we were looking for.  Other than admitting that you were blocked so your kill didn't go through

I was at L-2 with UoS urging restraint when I actually wrote that, and got PPEd, as I said!

I guess by "credible claim" you're looking for something verifiable, in which case you're out of luck (or more likely I am), because that level of concrete evidence of alignment doesn't exist for me right now. What I do have is enough game evidence to have a strong hunch that someone has made a very sensible-looking but ultimately incorrect inference. And there could be town evidence to help unravel that, so the sensible thing for me to do here is to try and mediate that without outing anyone else's roles.

[SpaceAnemone]

I know that DatSwan jailkept Space on N1 and Ashersky on N2.

Um. How do you know it was Swan and not someone else? I think my result is consistent with being RBd as well as JKd.

[2.71828.....]

By "credible" I simply mean a claim. Any claim. Like role, what you do, is it x-shot, x-night, or standard every night?

Claiming "I was blocked" (even having it confirmed) doesn't do anything to convince me that you are town

[2.71828.....]

I know that DatSwan jailkept Space on N1 and Ashersky on N2.

Um. How do you know it was Swan and not someone else? I think my result is consistent with being RBd as well as JKd.

JK does RB you though. It also protects you from the NK

[SpaceAnemone]

By "credible" I simply mean a claim. Any claim. Like role, what you do, is it x-shot, x-night, or standard every night?

Claiming "I was blocked" (even having it confirmed) doesn't do anything to convince me that you are town

At L-2, I wanted to hold off because I wasn't expecting to get to L-1 so fast, especially with UoS specifically asking for the day not to end so quickly.

I don't foresee my claim satisfying you, so I may as well leave my role a mystery to scum, which ultimately helps town. That was certainly my logic when I wrote the first "claim" bit in the L-2 the post.

Now it's L-1, sure, I'll consider more. Though I'd like this thing with WCD to clear up a bit first. Also, it's ridiculously late in my timezone, and I can't afford to let me sleep pattern get any more skewed, so I have to go to bed and leave this till tomorrow. I will have time to be on then.

(@e, aren't you in the it's-just-past-0430 timezone??)

[SpaceAnemone]

I know that DatSwan jailkept Space on N1 and Ashersky on N2.

Um. How do you know it was Swan and not someone else? I think my result is consistent with being RBd as well as JKd.

JK does RB you though. It also protects you from the NK

I know this, but I also already knew that WDC knew I didn't target someone N1 (for a reason I haven't claimed yet). The fact that she now says that she knows it was Swan is new information that doesn't quite fit with the rest of the thing I haven't yet claimed.

Anyway, I really have to go now. Maybe WCD can fill in some blanks while I'm away?