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[Swowl]

"forced" as in if you are going to use the shot you have to do it publicly.  And we all know that it is anti-town to have a PR and not use it.

Technically, he probably could have just not shot. I don't know

What if he is not forced to do it in thread? He does it silently in the QT and then types anything in-thread and that's it

That seems like a stretch

He could also do it silently in the QT and not even have to type anything in-thread. We don't know for sure if him posting the dayvig command in the thread even did anything at all.

he could also not do it silently in QT

[Swowl]

"forced" as in if you are going to use the shot you have to do it publicly.  And we all know that it is anti-town to have a PR and not use it.

Technically, he probably could have just not shot. I don't know

What if he is not forced to do it in thread? He does it silently in the QT and then types anything in-thread and that's it

That seems like a stretch

How is that a stretch? "You have a day vig. You must post it publicly for it to take effect" combine that with ash supposedly feeling the need to shoot and then living through a lynch.. that kind of screams "Hey I am faust and I made this game" to me.

[Haddock]

Here's a post I attempted to make while I was reading up the other day.  By the time I pressed post the thread was locked - I didn't know cos I was only halfway through the reread:

"OK so I'm wAY not caught up yet. And am also fairly drunk. However.

Immediate thoughts so far.

Nope I'm just trying to create conversation. I know why I'm voting for him (the main reason is wagon placement as explained) but I'm wondering why e is voting for him

A better way to create conversation would be to explain why you aren't scum.

Jesus christ
vote: awaclus

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

There's some lexical ambiguity here. Are you saying you are afraid for reasons which will become clear or people are voting for you for reasons that will become clear?

It’s also a very nothing statement, especially in RMM. I mean, voting for a town PR is bad, so we can all say the same thing. Seems like an empty chaff discharge to me.

Strongly disagree. I read this as a clear indication that her role is something to do with stuff-happening-linked-to-how-many-votes-she-has. Which is loosely a very soft claim. Which we might decide is a bad play. But is definitely a vaguely towny thing to do.

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.

Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.

In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.


Vote: Ashes

Reading this I felt that you were conflating the discussion of ash's claim that she has a plan with discussion of the actual plan itself. Whether or not it exists. And it felt intentional. And either dumb or scummy. But I can't articulate what I mean very well right now. Hopefully it's clear.

Swan: I think “not wanting to lynch x” and “not wanting to lynch x D1” are very different prospects. I don’t think the occasional day 1 pass compromises the integrity of the game. It’s similar (in terms of the affect on the game) to holding off on a d1 lynch of a very scummy player who claimed a PR. You can always lynch them the next day.

Anyway, vote: ashersky. Swan’s making sense here and ash’s response really rubbed me the wrong way.

PS: i’ll hammer Glooble if it comes to it, fwiw.

This is hedgey af.

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, that’s fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

Were all the votes on Glooble just because of his attitude to Ash's plan, though? Yours wasn't very well-explained, and just singled him out as the most productive place your vote could be, which isn't very enlightening for the rest of us. hyper's vote is the one that appeared to be explicitly because Glooble was promoting stalling while waiting for Ash. LL's was totally unexplained. So I'm not sure quite what your "that's fair" comment is agreeing with in Robz's statement.

I also don't feel the hyper wagon, because I approve of setup-reading, and think it's something an analytical player is quite likely to do. Am I right in remembering that hyper leans that sort of way?

I think a pressure vote on mcmc isn't a terrible thing right now. Vote: mcmc

Sorry, Space, I was in a hurry and not terribly inspired, but didn't want to keep not having a vote anywhere.  You are correct that it was not very helpful.

I voted for Glooble because in the Mail-mi, Hyper, Joth, Glooble conversations he was coming off to me as the most defensive. The plan or not thing wasn't terribly interesting, although I agree with DatSwan that announcing a plan but not presenting one is a rather distracting move and in light of how much time we spent talking about it for naught, that seems right. So, Asher isn't looking so good in my book even if she always does this. (As you correctly point out, I don't have a lot of experience with her)

As for why I changed my vote from Robz's comment, I had sympathy for the we shouldn't recruit players to return and then lynch them for their trouble right out of the gate. Although in fairness, the vote was more for seeing how he responds to pressure than it was about a lynch. (The answer to that is that I find him defensive, but not flailing.)

I am still of the opinion that Mcmc is skeevy for just not playing at all. And if she's not scum, I am quite certain that at the very least, she will not be missed.

Oh yeah....the 4 am (3 am for me) Saturday deadline. I am most definitely not around at that time. So, perhaps we think of Friday as the deadline for practical purposes. Or, I will at least.

DatSwan, how has Australia been? When will you get on the monster flight home and be out of commission for many hours?

This is the last post I've got to so far and I haven't yet processed it.  There's a lot going on there. Fairly certain I'll have things to say about this post in particular tomorrow."



Since that post I did some catching up overnight and had the following more thoughts:
"

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, that’s fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

Were all the votes on Glooble just because of his attitude to Ash's plan, though? Yours wasn't very well-explained, and just singled him out as the most productive place your vote could be, which isn't very enlightening for the rest of us. hyper's vote is the one that appeared to be explicitly because Glooble was promoting stalling while waiting for Ash. LL's was totally unexplained. So I'm not sure quite what your "that's fair" comment is agreeing with in Robz's statement.

I also don't feel the hyper wagon, because I approve of setup-reading, and think it's something an analytical player is quite likely to do. Am I right in remembering that hyper leans that sort of way?

I think a pressure vote on mcmc isn't a terrible thing right now. Vote: mcmc

Sorry, Space, I was in a hurry and not terribly inspired, but didn't want to keep not having a vote anywhere. You are correct that it was not very helpful.

I voted for Glooble because in the Mail-mi, Hyper, Joth, Glooble conversations he was coming off to me as the most defensive. The plan or not thing wasn't terribly interesting, although I agree with DatSwan that announcing a plan but not presenting one is a rather distracting move and in light of how much time we spent talking about it for naught, that seems right. So, Asher isn't looking so good in my book even if she always does this. (As you correctly point out, I don't have a lot of experience with her)

As for why I changed my vote from Robz's comment, I had sympathy for the we shouldn't recruit players to return and then lynch them for their trouble right out of the gate. Although in fairness, the vote was more for seeing how he responds to pressure than it was about a lynch. (The answer to that is that I find him defensive, but not flailing.)

I am still of the opinion that Mcmc is skeevy for just not playing at all. And if she's not scum, I am quite certain that at the very least, she will not be missed.

Oh yeah....the 4 am (3 am for me) Saturday deadline. I am most definitely not around at that time. So, perhaps we think of Friday as the deadline for practical purposes. Or, I will at least.

DatSwan, how has Australia been? When will you get on the monster flight home and be out of commission for many hours?

This is the last post I've got to so far and I haven't yet processed it. There's a lot going on there. Fairly certain I'll have things to say about this post in particular tomorrow.


Yeah I disagree with a lot of stuff in this post. I haven't had defensive vibes off Glooble at all, and this feels like throwing shade for no good reason.
I also completely disagree with the comment about ash's plan. The claim being made is that ash announcing a plan induces discussion, which is generally protown. Whether or not you agree with that thesis, WestCoastDidds is completely missing the point here.


Quote from mail-mi:
"1. SpaceAnemone - is doing regular SpaceAnemone things, from what I remember. Slight town read.
2. jotheonah - Still seems a little too flippant. Scum read
3. LaLight - Um... don't remember anything in particular right now, null read
4. DatSwan - same as above, though I suppose if everyone decided to sheep Awaclus I could join
5. mail-mi - is me
6. Awaclus - is Awaclus. As always, slight scum read
7. 2.71828..... - seems to be good. Wouldn't prefer to lynch today
8. WestCoastDidds - seems townie to me, wouldn't prefer to lynch
9. Robz888 - is in robz's d1 laze. Eh, null read
10. hypercube - preferred lynch
11. mcmcsalot - lurking, but I agree with e's and ash's posts though. Less sure about lynching him
12. ashersky - null read
13. Galzria - Lurking, but is a vet. Would also lynch him, probably over mcmc
14. Glooble - want to give him a d1 pass, but if everyone wants to lynch him I will"

This is a good readslist, except the read on Glooble seems super hedgey. And I'm townreading Glooble.
ohterwise I largely agree.

Ah except on hypercube. hypercube reads towny to me. Also I feel like the case on jotheonah is stronger than just "too flippant". More on that later.


Awaclus:
"Quote from: mcmcsalot on January 17, 2019, 10:22:09 pm
whats the swan case? he feels less swany this game but not sure what that means alignment wise

What isn't the swan case?"

Guh vote: Awaclus


jotheonah:
"I’m going to go ahead and say it: I strongly dislike the cube wagon. Everything about it feels scummy and bad. I’m going to move my vote to vote: mcmc. Not because of lurking, because of the posting she’s done since she stopped lurking.

I think describing the hypercube wagon as stalled while hypercube was the leading wagon, after saying she just caught up, is a scumslip. Someone who just caught up wouldn’t make that mistake. Someone who was reading along and not posting and decided to make an appearance when the heat started getting on them might.

I know that when I’m scum it’s hard to get myself to actually reread since I’m not actually looking for information.

Even if the mistake isn’t a scum slip, “sorry I’ve been lurking, I’m going to reread and conclude that the best lynch happens to also be the person with the most votes on her already” doesn’t look great on its own."
This is one of the towniest posts jotheonah has made, though I disagree with the central point re mcmc. "Just caught up" might well mean "I am making this post as I am partway through catching up.". That's how I catch up, anyway. Often make posts while halfway through a read-up.



Oh and then mcmc dies, jeez fine. Well I was right about jotheonah being wrong, at least.


And then end of day. OK..."

[Haddock]

Then I had one more thought which I kept note of to be posted once I could post:

"OK so I wasn't able to compile jotheonah quotes while the thread was locked. But please everyone read through jotheonah and then come back and recognise that she's been scummayyyyy.

She has been very twitchy and defensive, hugely OMGUSsy, and not particularly contributive. Also has some reads that I think are really ugly, throwing shade at towny folks for not-good reasons."

vote: jotheonah

And now to today's business.

[Glooble]

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

[LaLight]

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

We had a plurality lynch, we didn't have 7 votes

[Swowl]

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

We had a plurality lynch, we didn't have 7 votes

? what the day ended a more than a day ahead of schedule am I wrong?

[Haddock]

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

I think trying to WIFOM the setup is a bad idea.  That's re ash's power and the NK.

The 5 people having 7 votes thing is worth discussing, I think it makes people on the wagon scummier.

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

We had a plurality lynch, we didn't have 7 votes

We were 2 days before deadline.  It wasn't a plurality lynch.



I think ash's use of power is null-to-very-slightly-town.   As in, the behaviour itself was moderately-strongly-towny, but because it's ash and ash is capable of all sorts of things as scum, it's only ever-so-slightly-towny.

[Swowl]

A quick move was all it took, and the ship carrying the Lord of the Radch's emissary went up in flames.

mcmcsalot has been killed! She was Mercy of Kalr, the Radch-aligned Fixed Modified Multi-Motion Dectector!

Haddock replaces Galzria! D1 deadline is extended by 24 hours.

Vote Count 1.5

Robz888 (1): Haddock
hypercube (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): DatSwan, jotheonah
jotheonah (2): LaLight, 2.71828.....
Haddock (2): mail-mi, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (4): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, hypercube, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on January 21, 2019, 04:00:00 am.

That is the end of day vote count stating that day ends on the 21st. It ended prior to that. 

[LaLight]

The lack of a night kill makes ash look worse to me. Not getting a night kill the night they used it would be a way to balance giving scum a day shot.

Can we talk about the fact that five people had 7 votes? Ash, we’re you also secretly hated Day 1? If someone on the ash wagon has a secret double or triple vote I guess that would explain it as well.

We had a plurality lynch, we didn't have 7 votes

? what the day ended a more than a day ahead of schedule am I wrong?

what.

ok, i will return when I reread, wtf

[Glooble]

Is multi-voter more often a scum power or a town power? Of course with a 2-vote discrepancy we could have one of each.

If joth is a scum with 2 votes and ash is town, joth being the final vote on the wagon makes sense. Drop the hammer before she can defend herself.

On the other hand, Datswan who cast the initial vote tried to unvote but too late.Three possibilities stick out to me- Datswan is the double-voter, is scum, knew the lynch had already gone through and jumped off the wagon to give herself cover, Datswan is the double-voter, is town, hopped off the wagon when it became L-1, but didn’t know about the second double vote ( or ash being hated) or three DatSwan has no idea about the voting shenanigans and just unvoted for the reasons she stated.

[Glooble]

One more thought- is it fair to assume the person with the extra botebknow they have an extra vote? A double voter who wasn’t told their vote counts twice sounds like it would qualify as a “bastard” role, yes?

[2.71828.....]

Manipulation of votes is like 99% a scum power, and yeah, people who are able to manipulate votes will be told they are manipulating votes or else it would be bastard. That being said, person X may manipulate person Y's vote without person Y knowing and that would be fine. (All opinions of course)

[2.71828.....]

Also, Datswan unvoting feels very town to me,

There is also the chance that the vig shot is a trade off for being hated.

[2.71828.....]

Also, Datswan unvoting feels very town to me,

At the end of D1, that is.

[jotheonah]

A couple things.

1) we kind of breezed past ash’s flavor claim, but isn’t Hetnys a bad guy? Hetnys is Breq’s subordinate and goes turncoat to work for Aanander.

2) I don’t think we’re dealing with a double vote. I think we’re dealing with ash being hated (or one of each). So ash has at least three powers: daykill, lynchproof, and hated. You know who. Gets big piles of powers? A serial killer.

3) I don’t want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

4) FYI my hatedness today is not part of my role. So it has been inflicted on me. Not super-surprising since apparently I have “today’s mislynch” written all over me.

[ashersky]

Also, no shot today.

Im also available to actually interact with folks regarding day 1, unless another quick lynch is planned?

why did you have to shoot on day one?

Because I felt there was a very good chance that I could die N1 (see every game since I returned from my long hiatus).

It was not compulsory (as in the role modifier).

[ashersky]

Also, nice speculation by all on the odd wagon size (no sarcasm here).  But I took only 5 votes to lynch.

As for why I didn't die -- no idea.  Assuming someone protected me from the NK as I believe I'm scum's top NK priority.

[ashersky]

More to the point, why didn't I die when I was lynched?  That was a big surprise to me. 

I actually think it might have had something to do with shooting mcmc?  He said some cryptic stuff he couldn't explain before the flip.

[jotheonah]

Ironic that ash keeps talking about giving the town an extra lynch day 1 (as if that’s protown) But she has in fact denied us a day one lynch by not dying.

I’m tempted to ask ash to fullclaim. I’m also tempted to go ahead and try to finish what we started day one.

[ashersky]

A quick move was all it took, and the ship carrying the Lord of the Radch's emissary went up in flames.

mcmcsalot has been killed! She was Mercy of Kalr, the Radch-aligned Fixed Modified Multi-Motion Dectector!

Haddock replaces Galzria! D1 deadline is extended by 24 hours.

Vote Count 1.5

Robz888 (1): Haddock
hypercube (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): DatSwan, jotheonah
jotheonah (2): LaLight, 2.71828.....
Haddock (2): mail-mi, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (4): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, hypercube, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on January 21, 2019, 04:00:00 am.

Fixed, modified.  What do we think those mean in the context of faust?  Has he defined them in his setup thread?

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. I’m newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and something’s that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.

I am still confused about how Asher got lynched with only 5 votes so far from the deadline. Is there a power that can end the day, and then it’s the plurality vote? Is that more likely than two people having an extra vote? And did Asher’s shot give her immunity?

[ashersky]

Ironic that ash keeps talking about giving the town an extra lynch day 1 (as if that’s protown) But she has in fact denied us a day one lynch by not dying.

I’m tempted to ask ash to fullclaim. I’m also tempted to go ahead and try to finish what we started day one.

Well, I didn't plan on me being the extra lynch, nor did I know I wouldn't die.

The extra lynch should have been whomever was #2 on the lynch list -- so one of the folks with two votes.  Or it looks like the new Galzria would have been coming after you.

Regardless of my not dying, we did have two "lynches" on D1.  We just didn't get two flips.

As for full claiming, not a good idea.  Remaining number of shots and when/how I can use them is what scum wants to know.  Scum also wants to lynch me.

I've claimed what needs to be known (through words or actions).  Hetnys, sometimes dayvig, sometimes hated.  Everything else is not related to my role (not dying from lynch, surviving last night).

[jotheonah]

Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. I’m newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and something’s that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.

I am still confused about how Asher got lynched with only 5 votes so far from the deadline. Is there a power that can end the day, and then it’s the plurality vote? Is that more likely than two people having an extra vote? And did Asher’s shot give her immunity?

There is a power called Governor that ends the day, though I’ve never seen it combined with a plurality lynch. Usually it just causes a no lynch. A power like that seems very very strong, basically dayvig and end the day but you can only target the leading wagon. I can maybe see it as a once per game.

[ashersky]

Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. I’m newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and something’s that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.

I am still confused about how Asher got lynched with only 5 votes so far from the deadline. Is there a power that can end the day, and then it’s the plurality vote? Is that more likely than two people having an extra vote? And did Asher’s shot give her immunity?

You may have missed it, but I claimed the 5 vote lynch part.  I two took less votes to lynch than normal.