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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 271752 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #500 on: January 22, 2019, 07:59:44 am »

Still waiting for an adequate explanation of your "multiple layers of weirdness" comment.  I saw you buried an answer in a misquote post, but "I didn't see you twice explained why you got lynched early" doesn't really cut it.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #501 on: January 22, 2019, 08:06:01 am »

Still waiting for an adequate explanation of your "multiple layers of weirdness" comment.  I saw you buried an answer in a misquote post, but "I didn't see you twice explained why you got lynched early" doesn't really cut it.

Nonetheless thatís the answer. I woke up this Leong to more than a page of posts, read through them quickly, didnít see those. So I thought you were claiming that you had no idea why you were lynched and also no idea why you didnít die.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #502 on: January 22, 2019, 08:08:19 am »

Also, nice speculation by all on the odd wagon size (no sarcasm here).  But I took only 5 votes to lynch.

As for why I didn't die -- no idea.  Assuming someone protected me from the NK as I believe I'm scum's top NK priority.

This claim is as clear as mud. You donít say ďitís part of my roleĒ you donít say ďIím hatedĒ, you say ďI took 5 votes to lynchĒ

Which like... yeah, we know. It did not register as new information.
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Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #503 on: January 22, 2019, 08:16:33 am »

I'm still seeing scum!jotheonah here and it's not because she's annoying and/or flippant.  I haven't seen flippant at all really.

It's because she's OMGUSsy, hedgey, over defensive and twitchy. 

I mean, obviously I'm very happy to consider other lynches, but I'm happy where my vote is for now.  Noone else has really given me strong scumvibes.

I believe e's claim re ash being town.



I want to discuss this post:
A couple things.

1) we kind of breezed past ashís flavor claim, but isnít Hetnys a bad guy? Hetnys is Breqís subordinate and goes turncoat to work for Aanander.

2) I donít think weíre dealing with a double vote. I think weíre dealing with ash being hated (or one of each). So ash has at least three powers: daykill, lynchproof, and hated. You know who. Gets big piles of powers? A serial killer.

3) I donít want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

4) FYI my hatedness today is not part of my role. So it has been inflicted on me. Not super-surprising since apparently I have ďtodayís mislynchĒ written all over me.
1) fine, I don't remember the flavour.  WIFOMing flavour seems a bad idea though.

2) Strongly disagree.  Note in particular this post of e's:
There is also the chance that the vig shot is a trade off for being hated.
Which I agree entirely with.  You can't count hated as an "additional power", it would be totally normal to put a negative ability in to counterbalance a strong role.  It doesn't necessarily imply SK.  Indeed quite the opposite, it's hard enough to win as an SK, let alone a doubly-hated SK...


3) no comment.

4) Maybe I missed something from D1 but you made this comment when you had maybe 2 people who had mentioned you as a possible lynch, maybe 2 votes.  This kind of defensiveness just make you look scummier.



Also:

Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. Iím newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and somethingís that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.

I am still confused about how Asher got lynched with only 5 votes so far from the deadline. Is there a power that can end the day, and then itís the plurality vote? Is that more likely than two people having an extra vote? And did Asherís shot give her immunity?

You may have missed it, but I claimed the 5 vote lynch part.  I two took less votes to lynch than normal.
Sorry ash but do you mind quoting where you originally claimed this?  I don't want to trawl the thread for it and I imagine you have a rough idea when you made that claim.




Finally:
Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. Iím newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and somethingís that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.
Okidoke, sorry I didn't know that.  I'm also new to this particular game so wasn't aware that you're a new player.  In light of that I'm much more willing to interpret the original misunderstanding as honest-mistake rather than scummy-feigned-ignorance.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #504 on: January 22, 2019, 08:42:10 am »

I basically completely believe that Ash is town at this point, and I'm definitely leaning towards voting for joth for SK hunting etc..

One thing I wanted to point out is this post when Swan jumps off the Ash wagon:

So, hereís what I donít get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didnít think she was scum? Itís seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.

Iím not trying to be dense (Iím still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.

Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).

I am assuming there is a modifier on ashes role where ďthey have to shoot or X happensĒ.... prettty much bc i agree with you that thier actions donít make a ton of sense as skum. Draws way too much attention.

Unvote

It's weird to me since Swan is saying that she agrees with WCD that Ash's actions don't make sense as scum (which I agree with), but in the post that Swan is actually quoting WCD is making the case that Ash is scum. So, it reads to me like Swan was really looking for an excuse to jump off that wagon.

I'm not sure if that means anything (it seemed more important before Ash claimed double-hated), but I figured I'd point it out anyways.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #505 on: January 22, 2019, 08:54:04 am »

Giant re-read post incoming:

Good idea! Vote: Awaclus

I always find RVS self-votes slightly scummy. It allows you to skip past the question of ďdo I RVS my partner or a townieĒ

I have a feeling, based on flavor, that alignment switching is not going to be voluntary. I suspect Aanander Mianani will have some kind of cult leader mechanic. Could be wrong of course.

Noone's alignment can change without their consent.

Another slight scum point. I think scum is more likely to know this aspect of the setup as theyíre the ones who can make alignment-switches happen. I could be wrong on this, but Iím basing it on flavor.

Man, this is such a crappy wagon. Let's join a different one.

Vote: Galzria

Here Awaclus pops in to get us to stop talking about flavor and time zones and get back to RVS! Which is a little weird, but not especially scummy.

Actually, Vote: mail-mi

While it might sound like pronoun-omgus, I've just realised that I haven't been doing setup stuff at all, so characterizing me as having done so is weird. I've talked about the flavour, because it's something I like, and about timezones because it's something I'm generally conscious of as someone who's not on the American continent.

I haven't really begun posting my thoughts on how the game mechanics and real set-up stuff might go, because the stuff I've thought of doesn't really fit with a anything I'd see as a balanced game.

This was a good point by Space that still sort of holds up.

Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

I dislike this post from Robz for two reasons. One, I disagree with the premise, suggesting a mass claim is definitely a thing scum will do when they can get away with it, and two, she voted for me!

ah, a day 1 wagon on me. some things never change

vote: mail-mi

Mass claims on day one are always a bad idea.

You're probably right. I guess a better question would be, are there obvious flavor names that would be scum?

This is a two-punch scummy post from mail-mi. One, the "day 1 wagon on her" is 2 votes for unrelated reasons, so not really even much of a wagon at all. Two, the immediate back-down from the claim idea.

Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

When does scum ever actually do this? Scum doesn't need to pounce at this juncture. Scum just needs to wait for a good-looking town wagon and slide onboard.

Well, scum wants to look like they're.scumhunting.

vote: joth

vote: hypercube

This is exactly the position scum wants to be on the wagon. Voting for someone who already has votes, and turning a couple votes into an actual wagon

I know that didn't make much sense, I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words. I hope you (meaning the general populus) understands what I'm trying to say

This was part of my case on mail-mi yesterday. Itís an extremely weak case on hypercube and doesnít make a ton of sense as town. But as a gambit to get me off her back by voting for the person who just voted for me, it makes a lot of sense.

Not quoting because itís a bunch of posts, but LaLightís day one entrance is kinda scummy. Especially this part:

ok then

should we just wagon two or more players that are the scummiest every day, so we will have a bit of extra info?

This is a very bad, hilariously bad suggestion given

ď5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that would take the least number of additional votes to lynch dies. If there is a tie, a town player dies before a non-town player. Otherwise, who dies is determined randomly.Ē

So LaLightís suggestion is to queue up two lynches at the end of the day to make sure the town player dies. Itís actually so bad I donít think it could come from scum. Town points for LL.

Looks like everyone has posted except ash, mcmc, and gala. Where y'all at?

Here is mail-mi changing the subject to something safe while everyone is talking about her and whether she might be scum.

Nope I'm just trying to create conversation. I know why I'm voting for him (the main reason is wagon placement as explained) but I'm wondering why e is voting for him

A better way to create conversation would be to explain why you aren't scum.

This is inane and maybe a little scummy.

Then thereís a long fight between mail-mi and Awaclus. Not sure what to make of it.

I think continuing to focus on mail-mi so much--something Joth is doing--is somewhat scummy. I've often seen mail-mi make himself into an easy target in games past, perhaps especially when town.

This feels like a partner stepping in to protect. Also notable that this is one of Robzís very few posts so far all game.

1) im implying that making a wagon one vote larger is not neccisarilly always pro town (especially if your meta as skum is to love the bus).

2) Reading just fine. I also do NOT think  that you, malmi, or anyone has done anything to come off as towny this far.

3) You didnít answer my question - instead you avoided it with a random omg is Vote. Another pro town thing tho Iím sure...

4) the last time i had this conversation with you you self hammered yourself for the town loss... so Iím just gonna drop this topic.

1) Making a wagon one vote larger is necessarily always pro town, unless the vote leads to a town lynch.

2) It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what mail-mi thinks about himself and what I think about myself.

3) I didn't answer your question because that was the second time you asked the exact same question and I already answered it in item 2.

4) That self-hammer was way better than having town give away valuable information before ultimately lynching me anyway.

More scummy Awaclus stuff.

Sidenote, there is so much voting for me happening day 1. Scum absolutely gave me hated because they knew Iíd be the easiest mislynch, and itís not twitchy or defensive of me to say so.

This is a long wall of post and Iím only halfway through my reread (#204), but I have to start my workday. So To Be ContinuedÖ

for now, vote: mail-mi

FoS: Awaclus, Robz888

No one else jumps out as super scummy.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #506 on: January 22, 2019, 09:03:59 am »

Also, ashersky, I don't think scum shot you last night because they assumed you would get lynched. You know, joth's "let's finish what we started yesterday" post.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't at least

I guess that's possible.  There's the "ash is an easy enough mislynch" angle.  Even if they actually think I'm 3rd Party, though, seems like it's in their best interest to take a possible non-them kill off the board.

Where's mail-mi?  That "oh no" post at day's end was funny.

Was sleeping, is catching up
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #507 on: January 22, 2019, 09:07:52 am »

That's actually not a bad mail-mi case.  I will consider.

Awaclus is being Awaclus, how much have you played with him before?  Nothing he's done so far is out of his nullzone.

As for Robz:

a) I don't like your linking Robz and mail-mi here, it's dangerously early to be suggesting partnerships.
b) I can't remember anything about Robz this game really, which suggests she's been actilurking.  So yes I could get behind that.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #508 on: January 22, 2019, 09:12:01 am »

I'm on phone right now, so I'll respond to the case on me when I can.

Ash is town, I believe her and e. I don't really like joth's case on her and think it's kinda scummy. Welcome to the game Haddock!
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #509 on: January 22, 2019, 10:06:31 am »

Rest of my day 1 re-read:

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, thatís fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

Worth noting that it's WCD who starts the mcmc wagon. And she starts it when there's a sea of actual reads and cases and wagons on the table, which she doesn't really address.

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, thatís fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

Were all the votes on Glooble just because of his attitude to Ash's plan, though? Yours wasn't very well-explained, and just singled him out as the most productive place your vote could be, which isn't very enlightening for the rest of us. hyper's vote is the one that appeared to be explicitly because Glooble was promoting stalling while waiting for Ash. LL's was totally unexplained. So I'm not sure quite what your "that's fair" comment is agreeing with in Robz's statement.

I also don't feel the hyper wagon, because I approve of setup-reading, and think it's something an analytical player is quite likely to do. Am I right in remembering that hyper leans that sort of way?

I think a pressure vote on mcmc isn't a terrible thing right now. Vote: mcmc

Then Space, immediately after. This vote feels towny to me actually.

On another note, Glooble is reading townier to me on re-read. I think all of her ďscummyĒ plays are pretty easily explained as rusty town coming to a changed meta in a complicated game.

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I donít have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.


One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.

Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.

In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.


Vote: Ashes


I know Iím really the pot calling the kettle black for FOSsing ash voters, but this is an interesting place to be on that wagon. DatSwan is (I think) the third ash voter, but after a lot of posts have passed since the first two. So the vote is more significant than it looks. 

The explanation for the vote feels like an excuse or a justification. Like the way you would preface a vote if you know a personís likely to flip town. Scum points for Swan.

Swan: I think ďnot wanting to lynch xĒ and ďnot wanting to lynch x D1Ē are very different prospects. I donít think the occasional day 1 pass compromises the integrity of the game. Itís similar (in terms of the affect on the game) to holding off on a d1 lynch of a very scummy player who claimed a PR. You can always lynch them the next day.

Anyway, vote: ashersky. Swanís making sense here and ashís response really rubbed me the wrong way.

PS: iíll hammer Glooble if it comes to it, fwiw.

LOL and then I vote ash because ďSwanís making senseĒ. Well, I guess everything looks different in the light of a town investigative result.

I continue to get a slight scumread on WCD. She posts infrequently but her posts are lengthy, which could be indicative of newbie scum playing & posting very carefully. But it could also just be newbie town doing that. Her posts feel Ö strategic. idk. something to keep an eye on.

My problem with the mcmc lynch is that lynching a lurker tells us nothing. If she's scum that's fine, but if she's town, we have no wagons to analyze or anything like that.

I strongly disagree with this.

Firstly, it probably tells us something about what other roles are out there. This is more useful for town than for scum, because right now we (probably?) each only have one datapoint to go on to build up a framework of how the game works, and a second point is a 100% improvement. Less so for scum, because they probably already know each other's roles too.

Secondly, we already have wagons to look at, and flips on later days will let us look at people who're voting together or avoiding being on the same wagons. The only downside is that mcmc hasn't voted at all, which is just really bad town play from him. That hinders voting analysis whether or not we flip him now.

Thirdly, if mcmc is lurking this badly, we remove him from the game and leave more active players who give us better wagon analysis, more interactions and more gameplay. Scum isn't going to take him out for us if he's leaving himself as a big unknown, and he's really not a player town wants alive at lylo if he's not someone we can form opinions of... so if we don't have strong scumreads on active players, then mcmc is a great place for a good towny vote to go.

Glooble opposes mcmc lynch, says lurker lynch is low-info. Spaceís reply feels weak to me. 1) knowing one role in a role madness game is actually not a lot of info, 2) lurker lynch wagons are not that useful because everyone can easily defend a policy vote without having to articulate a scum read 3) that would be fine if mcmc were an unknown entity, but we all know her meta and that sheís likely to become more active.

For some reason three people (WCD, cube, and mail-mi) show up to say how townie this slightly scummy post was.

How often does LAL actually hit scum though?

Basically never. Scum!mcmc (hate to say it) doesn't lurk this hard

This is correct. When momsalon rolls scum, he is into the game.

I know ash is town, but this is what drives me crazy about the mcmc shot. Ash herself all but says mcmc is a bad lynch, not likely to flip scum. Letting the town direct your vig shot without telling them theyíre directing it is bad enough, but doing it when you have a townread on the person youíre shooting seems blantantly antitown. I do not regret my votes on ash.

Then mcmc shows up and I jump on her wagon. I am the only person on that wagon who actually expressed a scumread on mcmc based on her play. (and then Glooble sheeps me)

LaLight lurked pretty hard day 1. I donít think itís a scumtell but I think itís worth mentioning.

One thing I've noticed about the game thus far is that people are very willing to defend joth. mail-mi and mcmc use my vote for joth as justification for their votes on me; E moves directly from joth to me after I vote for joth and then her case against me derails the joth wagon for good. I think this points towards joth being town? Certainly I'd think that scum would try to avoid defending their buddies so blatantly, especially since it never seemed super likely that joth would get lynched.

This is a good post. :P

I still think cubeís wagon was scummy and cube has seemed townie.

Then ash shoots a townie and disclaims all responsibility for her actions. Iím not like that upset because obviously I was driving the mcmc lynch at that point and legitimately thought she was scum, but I think itís important to note that ash did not but shot her anyway then blamed the town, which is just obnoxiously poor play.

Well there's that.

Back to vote: joth

Hey mail-mi, what was this about?

In the interest of analysis, the ash wagon, in order:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I donít have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.

Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.

In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.


Vote: Ashes

(this is the only vote that came before the vig shot and DatSwan apparently doesnít log on again until after the hammer)

But actually. Vote: ashersky

Convince me you aren't a SK or something like that

Ugh! Why kill mcmc? We werenít that close to the deadline so it doesnít make any sense to say the votes were there. And now we still need to lupynch someone?

Vote: Ash

Ok, knee jerk reaction is over.

Back to vote: joth

It seems pretty unlikely that a multi shot, or even one-shot, dayvig is town. So I would suggest we take the ash lynch off the table, at least for now.

unvote

Iíll look at some interactions to see where to move it.

This was an interesting reaction, and I think scummy

(effectively unvoting ash)

Hereís my read on the situation having never played a game with a diving before.

The reason for not telling people about it is to have an ďace in the holeĒ, so to speak. Now that itís been used, everyone, town and scum knows to be on the lookout for it. Iím not sure why giving up the element of surprise to shoot someone you donít have a particularly strong read on is a good use of the power.

Shooting me would have made a lot more sense. I would be less suspicious of that. Of course I would be dead, so that wouldnít matter.

Shooting mcmc makes more sense if youíre scum. Heís got this ďthey were gonna lynch him anywayĒ defense, plus it throws suspicion onto me because people are going to wonder why you didnít shoot me if I was your scumread.

Not to mention the fact that you say you had no idea the deadline would be extended, which means... you wanted to remove the only wagon with enough votes on it to be non-random at a point where the town had no time to reach a new consensus?

Thatís super scummy to me.

vote: ash

vote: ash

Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.

I played a normal game on another site where scum team had 1 dayvig shot. Also maybe they should forgo the nk now. Or heís a third party. Pick one

Good enough for me. vote: ash

So, hereís what I donít get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didnít think she was scum? Itís seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.

Iím not trying to be dense (Iím still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.

Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).

I am assuming there is a modifier on ashes role where ďthey have to shoot or X happensĒ.... prettty much bc i agree with you that thier actions donít make a ton of sense as skum. Draws way too much attention.

Unvote

Who is scummy on this wagon?

Me. Sure. I was the hammer and I did the whole ďgive me a reasonĒ thing plus I basically drove the mcmc wagon also. So I can definitely see why Iím not coming off great here!
LaLight. No explanation for the vote. Ready to supply the reason I needed.
Sheepy-sheep on both mcmc and ash wagons.
WCD maybe

Who looks towny?

e and DatSwan for (trying to) jump off the wagon

Final scumreads after day 1 re-read:
mail-mi, Robz, LaLight, WCD and Swan a little bit

Nullreads/canít decide:
Glooble, Awaclus, Space, Haddock (wasnít around day 1)

Town reads:
ash, e, hypercube

me:
joth

dead:
mcmc

I feel good for having this out there, even though I didn't really find any smoking guns.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #510 on: January 22, 2019, 10:33:53 am »

Hi Joth-

I don't want to quote the giant wall, but here there is one part that is about me that I can respond to me before I need to go to work.  You say "I continue to get a slight scumread on WCD. She posts infrequently but her posts are lengthy, which could be indicative of newbie scum playing & posting very carefully. But it could also just be newbie town doing that. Her posts feel Ö strategic. idk. something to keep an eye on."

I am most def newbie town. I tend to think through and process what I am reading when I am posting, thus the length of my posts.  As for the infrequency, it doesn't feel infrequent to me!  But I know that sometimes I read and don't actually have anything to add until I have some time to dwell. While I am definitely not keeping up with the super high posters, I would bet that I am somewhere in the middle in a post count. So, I am posting very carefully but its mostly not to look silly/novice/clueless rather than to avoid suspicion. My best evidence that this is the way I play is M119. I have never been scum so I don't have any counter evidence.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #511 on: January 22, 2019, 10:44:34 am »

Hi Joth-

I don't want to quote the giant wall, but here there is one part that is about me that I can respond to me before I need to go to work.  You say "I continue to get a slight scumread on WCD. She posts infrequently but her posts are lengthy, which could be indicative of newbie scum playing & posting very carefully. But it could also just be newbie town doing that. Her posts feel Ö strategic. idk. something to keep an eye on."

I am most def newbie town. I tend to think through and process what I am reading when I am posting, thus the length of my posts.  As for the infrequency, it doesn't feel infrequent to me!  But I know that sometimes I read and don't actually have anything to add until I have some time to dwell. While I am definitely not keeping up with the super high posters, I would bet that I am somewhere in the middle in a post count. So, I am posting very carefully but its mostly not to look silly/novice/clueless rather than to avoid suspicion. My best evidence that this is the way I play is M119. I have never been scum so I don't have any counter evidence.

This is a fine response. When you have a minute, I'd love to hear about why you started the mcmc wagon when you did rather then contributing to one of the existing cases.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #512 on: January 22, 2019, 10:54:07 am »

This is a reminder to myself to reread Swan at some point.  The posts quoted in the above do look scummy but it's hard to tell out of context and I wasn't grabbed by anything in my initial catchup read.

joth is slowly talking me round, I like the most recent post especially.  I am conscious that it is very easy to look towny by reflecting the views of others, but nonetheless this is better.  I will consider moving.  But right now I'm trying to write a paper, so will be able to focus better later on.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #513 on: January 22, 2019, 10:55:00 am »

EBWOP
This is a reminder to myself to reread Swan at some point.  The posts quoted in the above do look scummy but it's hard to tell out of context and I wasn't grabbed by anything in my initial catchup read.

joth is slowly talking me round, I like the second most recent (longer) post especially.  I am conscious that it is very easy to look towny by reflecting the views of others, but nonetheless this is better.  I will consider moving.  But right now I'm trying to write a paper, so will be able to focus better later on.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #514 on: January 22, 2019, 10:55:39 am »

Hi Joth-

I don't want to quote the giant wall, but here there is one part that is about me that I can respond to me before I need to go to work.  You say "I continue to get a slight scumread on WCD. She posts infrequently but her posts are lengthy, which could be indicative of newbie scum playing & posting very carefully. But it could also just be newbie town doing that. Her posts feel Ö strategic. idk. something to keep an eye on."

I am most def newbie town. I tend to think through and process what I am reading when I am posting, thus the length of my posts.  As for the infrequency, it doesn't feel infrequent to me!  But I know that sometimes I read and don't actually have anything to add until I have some time to dwell. While I am definitely not keeping up with the super high posters, I would bet that I am somewhere in the middle in a post count. So, I am posting very carefully but its mostly not to look silly/novice/clueless rather than to avoid suspicion. My best evidence that this is the way I play is M119. I have never been scum so I don't have any counter evidence.

This is a fine response. When you have a minute, I'd love to hear about why you started the mcmc wagon when you did rather then contributing to one of the existing cases.

Mostly because I was uninspired by the Glooble/Hyper/Joth choices. I don't think it serves our town to lynch our most active players off the bat and even though there were some off notes here and there in different posts, all of y'all were playing. When I voted for Mcmc, I didn't know I was starting a wagon, and I didn't know that Asher was going to kill her. Rather, I was looking for her to get into the game. I moved my vote to Galz when Mcmc showed up and had a cranky series of posts about my frustration when folks are MIA--which I think is different than lurking. I think that frustration is pretty consistent for me, too. I didn't think that either Mcmc or Galz were necessarily scum, but I know for sure they were not contributing when I voted for them.

I also voted for Ash, mostly because I thought that shooting Mcmc was seriously Not Cool. But I was definitely under the impression that we had more time so I wasn't down with having him lynched and I was getting ready to respond to DatSwan's unvote when the day abruptly ended. 

Alright, class in 4 minutes so off to work for real this time. :)
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #515 on: January 22, 2019, 10:59:52 am »

WCD is rapidly convincing me of her towniness.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #516 on: January 22, 2019, 11:01:09 am »

I've played all my games so far with WCD, so I can confirm that she's playing how I'd expect her to as town. Of course, she hasn't really been under any pressure yet so I wouldn't exactly give her an unshakable town read.

I also like joth's reread/analysis, it has some good insights and seems pretty towny overall. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his reaction to ash's claims for now.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #517 on: January 22, 2019, 11:13:08 am »

Actually, Vote: mail-mi

While it might sound like pronoun-omgus, I've just realised that I haven't been doing setup stuff at all, so characterizing me as having done so is weird. I've talked about the flavour, because it's something I like, and about timezones because it's something I'm generally conscious of as someone who's not on the American continent.

I haven't really begun posting my thoughts on how the game mechanics and real set-up stuff might go, because the stuff I've thought of doesn't really fit with a anything I'd see as a balanced game.

This was a good point by Space that still sort of holds up.

no it doesn't. We already discussed this--by "set up" I was meaning logistics.

Quote

ah, a day 1 wagon on me. some things never change

vote: mail-mi

Mass claims on day one are always a bad idea.

You're probably right. I guess a better question would be, are there obvious flavor names that would be scum?

This is a two-punch scummy post from mail-mi. One, the "day 1 wagon on her" is 2 votes for unrelated reasons, so not really even much of a wagon at all. Two, the immediate back-down from the claim idea.

1. I was making a joke (something you like to do as well)
2. I was not married to the idea of a claim. It was simply a suggestion, that others who have been playing mafia for the last 2 years shot down. After reading their posts, I agreed with them. Simple as that

Quote
Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

When does scum ever actually do this? Scum doesn't need to pounce at this juncture. Scum just needs to wait for a good-looking town wagon and slide onboard.

Well, scum wants to look like they're.scumhunting.

vote: joth

vote: hypercube

This is exactly the position scum wants to be on the wagon. Voting for someone who already has votes, and turning a couple votes into an actual wagon

I know that didn't make much sense, I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words. I hope you (meaning the general populus) understands what I'm trying to say

This was part of my case on mail-mi yesterday. Itís an extremely weak case on hypercube and doesnít make a ton of sense as town. But as a gambit to get me off her back by voting for the person who just voted for me, it makes a lot of sense.

It was day 1, and it was the best I had up til that point.  I'm gonna reread hypercube, but I've got a townishread on her right now (which is subject to change) Why don't you talk about e's case on Hypercube, which is pretty much the same as the case I made? And why doesn't it make him scummy (cop claim notwithstanding)?

Quote
Looks like everyone has posted except ash, mcmc, and gala. Where y'all at?

Here is mail-mi changing the subject to something safe while everyone is talking about her and whether she might be scum.

If you would notice all the other posts around that post, I responded to the people voting for me and defended myself. Is it wrong to talk about multiple things at once, like you're doing in this post? I just did it in multiple posts.

Quote
I think continuing to focus on mail-mi so much--something Joth is doing--is somewhat scummy. I've often seen mail-mi make himself into an easy target in games past, perhaps especially when town.

This feels like a partner stepping in to protect. Also notable that this is one of Robzís very few posts so far all game.
He's not my partner because I am not scum. Also Robz just doesn't like day 1. It's a nullread on him for me.

Quote
Sidenote, there is so much voting for me happening day 1. Scum absolutely gave me hated because they knew Iíd be the easiest mislynch, and itís not twitchy or defensive of me to say so.

That's a fair point. It's also very possible that a townsperson has the ability to give you hated because they think that you are scum, and I still think that you are scummy, so currently I think it's the latter
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #518 on: January 22, 2019, 11:17:02 am »

Well there's that.

Back to vote: joth

Hey mail-mi, what was this about?


I had been voting for galz for not being present, and he was replaced by Haddock. I didn't want to be voting for haddock, so I went with my highest scumread which was you.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #519 on: January 22, 2019, 11:21:50 am »

Just reread hypercube, I don't have a strong townread on her now, but I do have a townread.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #520 on: January 22, 2019, 11:25:48 am »

Vote Count 2.1

jotheonah (2): Haddock, 2.71828.....
mail-mi (1): jotheonah

Not Voting (10): SpaceAnemone, LaLight, DatSwan, mail-mi, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, hypercube, Glooble, ashersky

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 29, 2019, 01:00:00 am.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #521 on: January 22, 2019, 11:42:43 am »

I have a feeling, based on flavor, that alignment switching is not going to be voluntary. I suspect Aanander Mianani will have some kind of cult leader mechanic. Could be wrong of course.

Mentions possible 3rd parties. Look at it in conjunction with his SK hunting for today. Also completely misses part of the setup, which does give him some small townpoints.

vote: mail-mi

Mass claims on day one are always a bad idea.

Votes for me. I like Robz's response to it, which also describes my thoughts:

Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

Quote from: jotheonah
Quote from: Robz888
I think continuing to focus on mail-mi so much--something Joth is doing--is somewhat scummy. I've often seen mail-mi make himself into an easy target in games past, perhaps especially when town.

I agree.

vote:Robz

Suddenly agrees that I make myself an easy target and unvotes off of me and back onto robz. So I guess suddenly has a townread on me, without much explanation as to why.

unvote

Voting for Robz was kind of silly.

it was.

Iím going to go ahead and say it: I strongly dislike the cube wagon. Everything about it feels scummy and bad. Iím going to move my vote to vote: mcmc. Not because of lurking, because of the posting sheís done since she stopped lurking.

I think describing the hypercube wagon as stalled while hypercube was the leading wagon, after saying she just caught up, is a scumslip. Someone who just caught up wouldnít make that mistake. Someone who was reading along and not posting and decided to make an appearance when the heat started getting on them might.

I know that when Iím scum itís hard to get myself to actually reread since Iím not actually looking for information.

Even if the mistake isnít a scum slip, ďsorry Iíve been lurking, Iím going to reread and conclude that the best lynch happens to also be the person with the most votes on her alreadyĒ doesnít look great on its own.

I actually thought mcmc's posting post-lurking was pretty townie. And in light of her flip, I don't like this vote.

A couple things.

1) we kind of breezed past ashís flavor claim, but isnít Hetnys a bad guy? Hetnys is Breqís subordinate and goes turncoat to work for Aanander.

2) I donít think weíre dealing with a double vote. I think weíre dealing with ash being hated (or one of each). So ash has at least three powers: daykill, lynchproof, and hated. You know who. Gets big piles of powers? A serial killer.

3) I donít want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

4) FYI my hatedness today is not part of my role. So it has been inflicted on me. Not super-surprising since apparently I have ďtodayís mislynchĒ written all over me.

1) If Ash was a bad guy, he would have been given a fake flavor claim that was a good guy. I don't think scum!ash would just share his actual flavor name. This is a bad point.

2) SK does not get hated, that would be awful. Also, joth is SK hunting before we even have a single night kill, or a single scum dead.

3) we don't need those kind of claims right now

4) I think you have "today's correct lynch" written all over you.

Ironic that ash keeps talking about giving the town an extra lynch day 1 (as if thatís protown) But she has in fact denied us a day one lynch by not dying.

Iím tempted to ask ash to fullclaim. Iím also tempted to go ahead and try to finish what we started day one.

Well, I didn't plan on me being the extra lynch, nor did I know I wouldn't die.

The extra lynch should have been whomever was #2 on the lynch list -- so one of the folks with two votes.  Or it looks like the new Galzria would have been coming after you.

Regardless of my not dying, we did have two "lynches" on D1.  We just didn't get two flips.

As for full claiming, not a good idea.  Remaining number of shots and when/how I can use them is what scum wants to know.  Scum also wants to lynch me.

I've claimed what needs to be known (through words or actions).  Hetnys, sometimes dayvig, sometimes hated.  Everything else is not related to my role (not dying from lynch, surviving last night).

Cool, this is exactly what I expected a serial killer to say.

vote: Ash

Good enough for yesterday, good enough for today.

Again, is sk hunting before we even have a single nightkill. You know who really wants to get rid of the SK? scum.

Still waiting for an adequate explanation of your "multiple layers of weirdness" comment.  I saw you buried an answer in a misquote post, but "I didn't see you twice explained why you got lynched early" doesn't really cut it.

Nonetheless thatís the answer. I woke up this Leong to more than a page of posts, read through them quickly, didnít see those. So I thought you were claiming that you had no idea why you were lynched and also no idea why you didnít die.

If you're voting for someone, I would think you would read their posts carefully instead of saying "they're scum" (or in this case "they're sk) "lynch them!"

I'm still seeing scum!jotheonah here and it's not because she's annoying and/or flippant.  I haven't seen flippant at all really.

It's because she's OMGUSsy, hedgey, over defensive and twitchy. 

I mean, obviously I'm very happy to consider other lynches, but I'm happy where my vote is for now.  Noone else has really given me strong scumvibes.

I agree with Haddock here.

I also don't like his place on either the mcmc or the ash wagon. Ash, to me, was definitely town even yesterday.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #522 on: January 22, 2019, 11:43:23 am »

I have a feeling, based on flavor, that alignment switching is not going to be voluntary. I suspect Aanander Mianani will have some kind of cult leader mechanic. Could be wrong of course.

Mentions possible 3rd parties. Look at it in conjunction with his SK hunting for today. Also completely misses part of the setup, which does give him some small townpoints.

vote: mail-mi

Mass claims on day one are always a bad idea.

Votes for me. I like Robz's response to it, which also describes my thoughts:

Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

Quote from: jotheonah
Quote from: Robz888
I think continuing to focus on mail-mi so much--something Joth is doing--is somewhat scummy. I've often seen mail-mi make himself into an easy target in games past, perhaps especially when town.

I agree.

vote:Robz

Suddenly agrees that I make myself an easy target and unvotes off of me and back onto robz. So I guess suddenly has a townread on me, without much explanation as to why.

unvote

Voting for Robz was kind of silly.

it was.

Iím going to go ahead and say it: I strongly dislike the cube wagon. Everything about it feels scummy and bad. Iím going to move my vote to vote: mcmc. Not because of lurking, because of the posting sheís done since she stopped lurking.

I think describing the hypercube wagon as stalled while hypercube was the leading wagon, after saying she just caught up, is a scumslip. Someone who just caught up wouldnít make that mistake. Someone who was reading along and not posting and decided to make an appearance when the heat started getting on them might.

I know that when Iím scum itís hard to get myself to actually reread since Iím not actually looking for information.

Even if the mistake isnít a scum slip, ďsorry Iíve been lurking, Iím going to reread and conclude that the best lynch happens to also be the person with the most votes on her alreadyĒ doesnít look great on its own.

I actually thought mcmc's posting post-lurking was pretty townie. And in light of her flip, I don't like this vote.

A couple things.

1) we kind of breezed past ashís flavor claim, but isnít Hetnys a bad guy? Hetnys is Breqís subordinate and goes turncoat to work for Aanander.

2) I donít think weíre dealing with a double vote. I think weíre dealing with ash being hated (or one of each). So ash has at least three powers: daykill, lynchproof, and hated. You know who. Gets big piles of powers? A serial killer.

3) I donít want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

4) FYI my hatedness today is not part of my role. So it has been inflicted on me. Not super-surprising since apparently I have ďtodayís mislynchĒ written all over me.

1) If Ash was a bad guy, he would have been given a fake flavor claim that was a good guy. I don't think scum!ash would just share his actual flavor name. This is a bad point.

2) SK does not get hated, that would be awful. Also, joth is SK hunting before we even have a single night kill, or a single scum dead.

3) we don't need those kind of claims right now

4) I think you have "today's correct lynch" written all over you.

Ironic that ash keeps talking about giving the town an extra lynch day 1 (as if thatís protown) But she has in fact denied us a day one lynch by not dying.

Iím tempted to ask ash to fullclaim. Iím also tempted to go ahead and try to finish what we started day one.

Well, I didn't plan on me being the extra lynch, nor did I know I wouldn't die.

The extra lynch should have been whomever was #2 on the lynch list -- so one of the folks with two votes.  Or it looks like the new Galzria would have been coming after you.

Regardless of my not dying, we did have two "lynches" on D1.  We just didn't get two flips.

As for full claiming, not a good idea.  Remaining number of shots and when/how I can use them is what scum wants to know.  Scum also wants to lynch me.

I've claimed what needs to be known (through words or actions).  Hetnys, sometimes dayvig, sometimes hated.  Everything else is not related to my role (not dying from lynch, surviving last night).

Cool, this is exactly what I expected a serial killer to say.

vote: Ash

Good enough for yesterday, good enough for today.

Again, is sk hunting before we even have a single nightkill. You know who really wants to get rid of the SK? scum.

Still waiting for an adequate explanation of your "multiple layers of weirdness" comment.  I saw you buried an answer in a misquote post, but "I didn't see you twice explained why you got lynched early" doesn't really cut it.

Nonetheless thatís the answer. I woke up this Leong to more than a page of posts, read through them quickly, didnít see those. So I thought you were claiming that you had no idea why you were lynched and also no idea why you didnít die.

If you're voting for someone, I would think you would read their posts carefully instead of saying "they're scum" (or in this case "they're sk) "lynch them!"

I'm still seeing scum!jotheonah here and it's not because she's annoying and/or flippant.  I haven't seen flippant at all really.

It's because she's OMGUSsy, hedgey, over defensive and twitchy. 

I mean, obviously I'm very happy to consider other lynches, but I'm happy where my vote is for now.  Noone else has really given me strong scumvibes.

I agree with Haddock here.

I also don't like his place on either the mcmc or the ash wagon. Ash, to me, was definitely town even yesterday.

fixed my last post
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #523 on: January 22, 2019, 11:47:21 am »

Also joth's point about "a lot of votes for me" is semi true. Joth was somebody that a lot of people were scumreading, but we could never actually get a real wagon going--exactly what happens with scum wagons on day 1. If/when joth flips scum, we should look at who was scumreading him but not voting for him day 1 or today.

But with all that said,

vote: joth
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #524 on: January 22, 2019, 11:51:22 am »

There's a lot happening pretty fast, which is excellent, but I can't keep up from a busy day at work. Brief thoughts for now: WCD seems townie to me in the same way hyper did yesterday. Ash self-voting earlier actually seems like town!ash being miffed at us. Other stuff will have to wait till I'm not furtively checking the thread while my colleagues are in a meeting.

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