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[Glooble]

I wasn't really aware of the meta re:ashersky plans, having been out of the loop for several years. In a vacuum, teasing a plan seemed scummy. I see now that I was missing important context.

[mail-mi]

I like e's hypercube case, definitely willing to go back to her if that's what ends up happening. Still like my joth vote rn

[hypercube]

The hypercube case:

1) he had the whole "I read the setup and noticed a hated/loved mechanic of some sort likely exists" post

2) then has the "if I were scum I wouldn't have pointed it out" post

3) the other wagons are all bad

And there you have it. Best of the best for D1 cases

I didn’t like something here. Not sure what.

Contents-wise, point 2 could be a thing. Depends on how noobish said player is, if scum discussed N0, and if scum has a player that is affected.  Especially with the last possibility, pointing it out via voting rule gets you town points plus protects scum who would be affected.

Well, I have enough experience to know that I wouldn't get town points for pointing out setup stuff. This came up in the last game I played; it seems the consensus is that pointing out setup stuff is null to scummy. However, in this case I thought it was pro-town to call attention to that information, so I did it. I don't expect anyone to town-read me for that, but that was my thought process.

If anyone has knowledge of whether scum has any players with voting modifiers or not, please feel free to speak up!

[jotheonah]

Unofficial vote count

Robz888 (1): Galzria
mail-mi (1): SpaceAnemone
jotheonah (1): mail-mi
hypercube (2): 2.71828....., Glooble
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): Robz888
Glooble (3): hypercube, LaLight, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (3): mcmcsalot, ashersky, jotheonah

[Glooble]

On that topic, we should talk about claims. I'm not sure it makes sense to autoclaim at R1 when everyone has a power role. I think maybe you should only claim if you think your role is exceptionally powerful? But it's also not really clear to me that the power level of roles is even knowable without more context. I certainly have no idea if mine is powerful or not.

The assumption here is that all of the power roles are positive. We have no evidence of this.

[Robz888]

E's case on hypercube is okay.

Vote: hypercube

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

[mail-mi]

Looks like joth isnt happening right now so I'll go back to vote: hypercube

[WestCoastDidds]

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, that’s fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

[SpaceAnemone]

I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.

Alright, that’s fair.

vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character

Were all the votes on Glooble just because of his attitude to Ash's plan, though? Yours wasn't very well-explained, and just singled him out as the most productive place your vote could be, which isn't very enlightening for the rest of us. hyper's vote is the one that appeared to be explicitly because Glooble was promoting stalling while waiting for Ash. LL's was totally unexplained. So I'm not sure quite what your "that's fair" comment is agreeing with in Robz's statement.

I also don't feel the hyper wagon, because I approve of setup-reading, and think it's something an analytical player is quite likely to do. Am I right in remembering that hyper leans that sort of way?

I think a pressure vote on mcmc isn't a terrible thing right now. Vote: mcmc

[jotheonah]

there's actually a couple of things about Glooble that I don't love. This post was a little much:

This wagon is me pretty obviously being pushed by hypercube to derail the wagon on her.

vote: hypercube

I was already leaning that direction anyway and now it’s looking like classic misdirection.

Still suspicious of ashersky though.

It just .... feels inauthentic. It feels like scared scum. But then, what do we make of this post less than 24 hours earlier?

At the risk of sounding scummy given that she is my sister irl, I don't get the wagon on joth right now. He's being sarcastic and flippant, but that's just his style. All of his observations seem genuine to me.

Day one is hard, there's so little concrete to go on. I'm eager to hear ashersky's secret plan to fight inflation (have we done West Wing Mafia yet? that could be fun.)

Anyway, this little fight between DatSwan and Awaclus doesn't look great for either of them, but DatSwan comes out of it looking a little more jumpy and defensive, which is often how I feel early on as scum, so for now, vote: DatSwan

I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that. But if it's inadvertent, as scum jumpy defensiveness often is, then maybe.

I think jumpy defensiveness is one of the best scum tells especially in new or out of practice players. But it definitely does give off false negatives.

Anyway, I don't want to vote Glooble today. I agree with RObz on giving her a day 1 pass for meta reasons. But consider this a big ol' FoS.

[jotheonah]

I can also see Glooble being acutely aware of how jumpy and defensive it can feel to be scum early in the day precisely because she's currently experiencing it, and then posting that and feeling very clever about it.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.3

Robz888 (1): Galzria
hypercube (4): 2.71828....., Glooble, Robz888, mail-mi
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
Glooble (2): hypercube, LaLight
mcmcsalot (2): WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (3): mcmcsalot, ashersky, jotheonah

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on January 20, 2019, 04:00:00 am.

[Swowl]

Ashersky explicitly stated he wouldn't reveal his plan until very late D1.

1) there is absolutely no reason to wait for a plan
2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

Agreed.

vote:ashersky

Please explain this post.

Cards on the table: Personally, I would rather not D1 lynch you after talking you into playing so we could have enough players to launch the game. But, in-game, I am finding you quite scummy.

I am not asking for anything to come of this - just a polite "hey buddy". Probably not OK to say things like this - from my understanding we are supposed to remove IRL among "twins" completely from the thread.

[Swowl]

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.

Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.

In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.


Vote: Ashes

[Swowl]

Australia for 2 more days btw - will be more active after I am home.

Skum points to Robz and Joth. We are playing this game, right now. You should not factor in how long it has been since a player has played (in the sense of removing them as a lynch). If you care more about the success of the forum than the quality of the game MOD them instead and don't play.

[Swowl]

Australia for 2 more days btw - will be more active after I am home.

Skum points to Robz and Joth. We are playing this game, right now. You should not factor in how long it has been since a player has played (in the sense of removing them as a lynch). If you care more about the success of the forum than the quality of the game MOD them instead and don't play.

This came off insanely sharp - sorry. I stand by my point, but didn’t mean it to sound the way it did in the original context.

[ashersky]

I think town points for DatSwan making such a terrible decision but backing it up with Swiss cheese reasoning. Not sound scum play. Day 1 town read.

[Awaclus]

One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.

No it isn't if letting scum hear the plan isn't part of the plan.

[hypercube]

I agree with Joth's points regarding Glooble; I don't like the way she's been handling pressure at all. I really do think this comment could be something that nervous scum would say, especially since I think Swan was clearly being agressive rather than defensive there:

DatSwan comes out of it looking a little more jumpy and defensive, which is often how I feel early on as scum, so for now, vote: DatSwan

Anyways if people don't want to vote for Glooble for meta reasons that's their prerogative I suppose, but I hope they're not using that as an excuse to not scrutinize her.

[Glooble]

I admit I have been jumpy and defensive since I started getting votes on me, and I know that doesn’t look good. I’m pretty sure it’s  because 1. I’m just an anxious person, and 2. I was given a very strange role and I’m still figuring out its implications for my playstyle.

[jotheonah]

Swan: I think “not wanting to lynch x” and “not wanting to lynch x D1” are very different prospects. I don’t think the occasional day 1 pass compromises the integrity of the game. It’s similar (in terms of the affect on the game) to holding off on a d1 lynch of a very scummy player who claimed a PR. You can always lynch them the next day.

Anyway, vote: ashersky. Swan’s making sense here and ash’s response really rubbed me the wrong way.

PS: i’ll hammer Glooble if it comes to it, fwiw.

[LaLight]

I think I would like to return to vote: joth

I don't want to lynch ash just yet and even get him to L-1. joth looks scummyish to me. As is Glooble still

[Robz888]

Australia for 2 more days btw - will be more active after I am home.

Skum points to Robz and Joth. We are playing this game, right now. You should not factor in how long it has been since a player has played (in the sense of removing them as a lynch). If you care more about the success of the forum than the quality of the game MOD them instead and don't play.

If I had a strong scum read I would consider lynching the player, but I'm just recognizing that all things being equal I have no clue and am usually wrong. On Day 1 there's so many players, you have to whittle down your list somehow, so crossing people off for semi arbitrary reasons is not all the objectionable in my opinion.

[jotheonah]

I think I would like to return to vote: joth

I don't want to lynch ash just yet and even get him to L-1. joth looks scummyish to me. As is Glooble still

Ashersky is 5 votes away from L1 so I think we’re ok.

[2.71828.....]

Why is Glooble scummy? Reactions all read town to me.