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[2.71828.....]

re you even aware of the kinds of things these Ashersky-plans of his tend to involve?

They tend to involve scum losing, even if he himself is scum. (See villager mafia)

[hypercube]

2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

I can buy into this. vote: Glooble

[Glooble]

2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

I can buy into this. vote: Glooble

All I said was “I’m eager to hear this plan”. Nothing about waiting for it. I then proceeded to make an unrelated vote in the same post.

[2.71828.....]

(Also just moved to Germany so I am now forum time+6)

Moved as in long-term? We should have another f.ds Mafia meet-up in Berlin!

Moved as in for the next 3 years. So somewhat long term

[2.71828.....]

2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

I can buy into this. vote: Glooble

All I said was “I’m eager to hear this plan”. Nothing about waiting for it. I then proceeded to make an unrelated vote in the same post.

Yeah, add hypercube's non sequitur vote on Glooble to the reasons they are scum

[Glooble]

Ashersky explicitly stated he wouldn't reveal his plan until very late D1.

1) there is absolutely no reason to wait for a plan
2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

Agreed.

vote:ashersky

[Glooble]

Err, forgot the space. vote: ashersky

[hypercube]

2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

I can buy into this. vote: Glooble

All I said was “I’m eager to hear this plan”. Nothing about waiting for it. I then proceeded to make an unrelated vote in the same post.

You didn't seem very convinced in your Swan vote, surrounding it with equivocation about how there's too little to go on etc.. I don't think scum would actually just sit there and refuse to do anything until Ash comes up with a plan. I've been scumreading Glooble for a little while now; she seems to be playing a very conservative game, being around without actually moving things along too much.

[LaLight]

I like vote: Glooble

[WestCoastDidds]

So, we will all wait for after dinner and for folks to get caught up, or maybe for a Ashersky plan

So.. is it pro-town just to wait for Ash's plan? Are you even aware of the kinds of things these Ashersky-plans of his tend to involve?

Characteristic one: he announces to the thread that he has a plan, but then waits ages to post it, building expectation. In games like this, it has a very real risk of stalling all the genuine worthwhile conversation in the thread because too many people buy into the cult of the Ashersky plan and don't want to put their own effort in when they hope someone else is going to come along and do it for them.

I think it's not very pro-town of him to do the hint-and-run routine in the first place, but it's certainly not pro-town for the rest of us to let multiple comments along the lines of "let's wait for Ashersky's plan" go by and not have at least a little rant about it ;-)

(I was going to go into more characteristics of the plans, but I'm at work, and now my breakfast-coffee is over, I need to get back to analysis of real data!)

Ah, thanks for the background. I wasn't arguing that we wait for the plan...especially since I can't see how there is any utility in a "plan" at this point with all the unknowns and so few knowns. I was really more trying to summarize the line of comments in the thread that were about catching up, checking in, reading, and getting back to it after dinner-- which I found amusing because it reminded me of being a kid and getting to play outside until the streetlights came on.

I appreciate that mail-mi, hyper, and glooble are so active. Of them, vote: glooble seems the most productive current course of action.

[Glooble]

This wagon is me pretty obviously being pushed by hypercube to derail the wagon on her.

vote: hypercube

I was already leaning that direction anyway and now it’s looking like classic misdirection.

Still suspicious of ashersky though.

[hypercube]

This wagon is me pretty obviously being pushed by hypercube to derail the wagon on her.

vote: hypercube

I was already leaning that direction anyway and now it’s looking like classic misdirection.

Still suspicious of ashersky though.

At the time I voted for you, E was the only person voting for me; there's nothing to derail there. It seems like you might be a bit afraid of people voting for you though!

[LaLight]

This wagon is me pretty obviously being pushed by hypercube to derail the wagon on her.

vote: hypercube

I was already leaning that direction anyway and now it’s looking like classic misdirection.

Still suspicious of ashersky though.

How are you suspicious of ashersky? Why?

[jotheonah]

Ashersky explicitly stated he wouldn't reveal his plan until very late D1.

1) there is absolutely no reason to wait for a plan
2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

Agreed.

vote:ashersky

Please explain this post.

Cards on the table: Personally, I would rather not D1 lynch you after talking you into playing so we could have enough players to launch the game. But, in-game, I am finding you quite scummy.

[Glooble]

Because of e’s point. Saying you have a plan but you won’t reveal it u til the end of the day seems like a good way to slow down scumhunting.

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

[2.71828.....]

This wagon is me pretty obviously being pushed by hypercube to derail the wagon on her.

vote: hypercube

I was already leaning that direction anyway and now it’s looking like classic misdirection.

Still suspicious of ashersky though.

How are you suspicious of ashersky? Why?

Ashersky is an easy person to be suspicious of. He posts about this Grand Scheme and then not much else. Seems fairly suspicious if you aren't accustomed to ashersky play style.

Town points for Glooble

[jotheonah]

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

There's some lexical ambiguity here. Are you saying you are afraid for reasons which will become clear or people are voting for you for reasons that will become clear?

[Glooble]

The former.

[ashersky]

Ashersky explicitly stated he wouldn't reveal his plan until very late D1.

1) there is absolutely no reason to wait for a plan
2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

This is correct. 2.7’s post before this one was scummy, but this is normal 2.7.

[ashersky]

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

There's some lexical ambiguity here. Are you saying you are afraid for reasons which will become clear or people are voting for you for reasons that will become clear?

It’s also a very nothing statement, especially in RMM. I mean, voting for a town PR is bad, so we can all say the same thing. Seems like an empty chaff discharge to me.

[ashersky]

The hypercube case:

1) he had the whole "I read the setup and noticed a hated/loved mechanic of some sort likely exists" post

2) then has the "if I were scum I wouldn't have pointed it out" post

3) the other wagons are all bad

And there you have it. Best of the best for D1 cases

I didn’t like something here. Not sure what.

Contents-wise, point 2 could be a thing. Depends on how noobish said player is, if scum discussed N0, and if scum has a player that is affected.  Especially with the last possibility, pointing it out via voting rule gets you town points plus protects scum who would be affected.

[jotheonah]

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

There's some lexical ambiguity here. Are you saying you are afraid for reasons which will become clear or people are voting for you for reasons that will become clear?

It’s also a very nothing statement, especially in RMM. I mean, voting for a town PR is bad, so we can all say the same thing. Seems like an empty chaff discharge to me.

On that topic, we should talk about claims. I'm not sure it makes sense to autoclaim at R1 when everyone has a power role. I think maybe you should only claim if you think your role is exceptionally powerful? But it's also not really clear to me that the power level of roles is even knowable without more context. I certainly have no idea if mine is powerful or not.

[ashersky]

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

[ashersky]

I am afraid of people voting for me for very pro-town reasons which will become clear if the wagon on me reaches that point.

There's some lexical ambiguity here. Are you saying you are afraid for reasons which will become clear or people are voting for you for reasons that will become clear?

It’s also a very nothing statement, especially in RMM. I mean, voting for a town PR is bad, so we can all say the same thing. Seems like an empty chaff discharge to me.

On that topic, we should talk about claims. I'm not sure it makes sense to autoclaim at R1 when everyone has a power role. I think maybe you should only claim if you think your role is exceptionally powerful? But it's also not really clear to me that the power level of roles is even knowable without more context. I certainly have no idea if mine is powerful or not.

Stock answer: Leave it up to individual players.

Better answer: generally the choice between being lynched and outing your power is an easy one to make.

[Glooble]

Ashersky: can you tell us why you can't reveal your plan until late day one without revealing your plan?