SpaceyMcSpacester:Space's first interaction with a still-alive player:
Gonna fill the below in from Space. They had no reason to make up the below, so I'll assume it's all true. Might be informative though. Thanks Space!
Right, I've got my vote-counting stuff set up for this game now :-)
Here's the peak (or peaks) of any wagon so far that's gotten up to at least 4 people.
#105: LaLight (4): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc, O, Jimmmmm
#138: LaLight (4): Teproc, O, Jimmmmm, Witherweaver
#200: gkrieg13 (6): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, faust, Teproc, LaLight, DatSwan
#232: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, Teproc, LaLight
#348: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Qvist
#362: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, DatSwan
#379: Eevee (4): faust, O, gkrieg13, Galzria
#380: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, Qvist, DatSwan
#388: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, Teproc
#440: Roadrunner7671 (6): Qvist, DatSwan, Galzria, faust, Archetype, Eevee
#470: Witherweaver (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg13, Eevee
Check out that wagon on RR at #440! If RR is scum, then the last scum -must- be bussing. And if RR is town, then both remaining scum were on him there. Note that 60 posts earlier, Iguana WAS on RR, but he bounced outta there as things were heating up. Noticeably however, if RR is scum, Iguana bounced but Datswan did not - which means Datswan would be committed to the bus as the heat got turned on. At the moment (based on my Space reread? lol), I'm inclined to believe that {RR/Datswan} are less likely to be paired.
Notable, given the time frame above:
I have iguana moving to DatSwan at #394, dropping RR from having three votes to have two.
The below quote is Space's first reads list that includes more than just their vote for gkrieg. Notable - Eevee is the only player not on there. Faust/RR/Galz/Swan all come up as Null-ish:
Towards the end of D1, Space throws some shade towards O and RR. In particular RR - based on the theory of LL being Mafia - something Space knew wasn't true. This sort of pairing is an easy way to call out a scum partner while painting it on a false premise:
Note also that RR and O are the two main late drifters from the LL wagon onto IDP: RR moved at #665, and O at #679.
RR has also been active online very recently, so if there's a partner to be found, that's a good place to look.
Just before end of day count from Space:
#739
LaLight (7): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (8): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., O, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver
I personally think it's more likely for scum to be split 2-2 on the wagons above, but I don't think it's super telling one way or another. There was no super strong reason for them to be stacked any which way.
On that note, early D2, Gkrieg requests the following. It's noteworthy in that either all the people voting WW D1 were "not-Mafia" aligned (not impossible), or Eevee is in fact Mafia:
Teproc is the one who was talking about empty posts and post counts and stuff right? That is the only reason I can think of why you kill WW. I don't think you want to kill people that had a wagon on them D1, because they have the most information. We now know 2 people who had wagons on them are town, which can tell us something about the game.
Space, could we get the list of everyone that voted for WW or IDPTG please?
People who voted for WW: LaLight, Galzria, gkrieg13, Teproc, Eevee, O.
People who voted for IDP: LaLight, Galzria, 2.71828....., Teproc, Witherweaver, DatSwan, Eevee, Roadrunner7671, faust, O.
The following two quotes come in back to back posts by Space - That puts Space, me and Datswan all on LL early D2. I don't think (from other's perspective) that makes a Space/Swan/Galz scum team all that likely. YMMV on how you feel about that though.
The below conversation with faust feels artificial:
So does the following conversation with Eevee:
The most incriminating piece of Space quoting I've found to date:
Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
The only players not voting are town, and Iguana. The other 3 Mafia are all voting. Teproc is on me. LL is on Gkrieg. I don't honestly believe that all 3 Mafia are pushing LL here knowing that LL isn't one of them. This is L-1. There's no reason for scum to be piled up here. LL is almost certainly the lynch of the day at this point, with or without them. I think faust is
incredibly scummy here.
Space only had 1 post D3, and that was a late vote for Iguana. Disregarding that and moving on to D4, Space opens with their claim:
Sorry I wasn't able to get to this last night. I'm now dipping in briefly on my lunch break to try to catch up, and then I should be back properly late in the evening, like 23.30 my time (18.30 forum time).
I'm the Watcher. In case it wasn't obvious from earlier in the game, I bid 16, which was why I specifically asked LL to re-check his bid when he claimed #16. I came in at #3, so it was highly unlikely for him to be at #6 with the same bid. I assumed Galz was also thinking along those lines when he was so suspicious of LL, too.
My night targets were faust, Galz and then Galz again. Two people targeted Galz on the middle night of those three: gkrieg and Qvist. Nobody targeted faust N1 or Galz last night.
A few thoughts on this:
1) Watching me N2 makes perfect sense and lines up with what's happened since. On N2 scum killed the IC and watched me (remember, I had claimed D2). They were looking for PR's that might choose to target me that night (Doctors, Trackers, etc) - they watched me to PR hunt. They saw Gkrieg and Qvist, which explains them killing Gkrieg the following night. My running theory is still that they have a Roleblocker - N1 they blocked LL (no kill, no threat to be jailed), N2 they blocked someone, N3 they blocked Qvist (killing Gkrieg), N4 they blocked Eevee (rendering him moot).
2) Tracking faust N1 when you have little/no outside information is extremely partner-y.
More from D4. D4 is hard to track because I think scum is being careful to spread around their suspicion here. But below, Space joins in on my scum-team-calling:
I don't think Space chooses 3 townies to pair with Iguana here. And e wasn't scum. So I think it's absolutely fair to be looking at specifically either faust or Eevee (and possibly both).
I do want to take a moment to note that a LOT of Space's D4 (especially early on) is to find faust scummy, but very clearly and loudly point out over and over again that faust is probably scum, but not the poisoner. See below for two examples of such:
Faust -- claims VT at #1493, having bid 3, got position 15 and bid for Redirector. Seems really scummy for his resistance to the claiming exercise and his antagonising of Teproc et al. But I do think he's probably unlikely to be the poisoner, firstly because he's too obviously being scummy at this point, and secondly because I agree with the people saying that the smart thing for a scum team to do would be to hide the poisoner as another clained PR, especially since e started pushing quite a while ago to lynch amongst the VTs to catch the real poisoner after Iguana flipped goon.
Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
Or any other scum! You're forgetting that the scum team gets to coordinate on their bids. I did a pretty good job picking my very own number in the first version even though I had the scum QT to talk to, but reasonably any scum team with faust on it gets to have him pick out numbers for everyone if they want to do it that way. No need for him to have the super-exposed high bid personally. That's why I think him bidding an oddball is totally reasonable.
Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
Okay, this is good! We wake up tomorrow and prove I'm not the poisoner, because I can 100% guarantee that Galz won't die of poison, and even if he's NKd tonight, the rest of you will be able to see he wasn't also poisoned.
This means it's ridiculous to push for my lynch today, because there are actual scums out there and the only people wanting to risk a non-scum player over an obvious scummy one like faust are the ones who're pushing for me because I'm kind of a traditional mislynch. Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering.
The last one above I even called out yesterday - "Don't lynch me, I'm not the poisoner! Lynch Faust instead - even if he's not the poisoner we still keep going!" I think it's likely that if Faust is scum, he is, in fact, NOT the poisoner. That said, I'll concede that there are arguments for Faust not being Space's partner based on how much Space was pushing him D4... I just feel more like Space was looking to push a partner in the hopes of buying towncred, but also didn't push too hard in the hopes that somebody else got lynched instead. Space certainly kept the doors open on other players the entire time - it's not like they solely tunneled on Faust. I dunno. Just... all feels partner-y. Faust will definitely be my next reread.
Getting closer to the end of the day now, Space makes their first fully "fleshed out" case on faust:
Now we're really getting close to the end of the day. It's clear that faust isn't going to happen (Tep/O had no interest in going there), so Space spins to me - making note that they would go back to faust if needed:
It's worth noting that if you think that I'm scum - the end of day from Space should strongly suggest that I'm NOT the Poisoner. Space continues to look for an out, and Teproc states at one point that I'm the only other person he's really willing to consider outside of Space. Scum!Watcher!Space does not go out of their way to live at the expense of Scum!Poisoner!Galz:
O and Teproc: would you at least reconsider on Galz, given that I presented actual evidence there? Or Datswan if Galz's old evidence there hald more weight for you instead?
e: would you be willing to move that way, given that you agree I'm not a good lynch today? Though I think your current vote on faust is also well-placed.
PPE: I would lynch Galz... well, I think all the non-hammering means I prefer you (Space) over him at this point.
Vote: Galz is way more sensible, people!
And... that's it for Space.
From Space alone, I'm leaning towards, in order: Faust/Eevee/RR/Swan - and that will be the order in which I reread those 4, unless something from one prompts me to change it up.