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[gkrieg13]

I can't really say I'm going to change me behavior.

At the same time, so far the overwhelming majority of people have shown no interest in following my line so the discussion changes regardless.

Voting for me seems pretty townie tho, to insert my own pseudo-random bullshit reads into this. It wasn't necessary to stop the conversation since the conversation was pretty dead anyways regardless of my will, and so far a disturbingly large number of people have town reads on me so I'm a pretty bad wagon choice.

To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.

I would be unwilling to lynch TWM, LaLight, Sudgy, e, and probably not Cuzz, because those people have made interesting contributions to discussion/"scumhunting", or, in cuzz's case, sheer volume of conversation.

I'm not going to hide behind a pretense of "scummy" and "not scummy" when I haven't played with the vast majority of the people on that list. At best it's anti-town and pro-town, but more likely it's anti-fun and pro-fun

Part of the problem with these massive setups is that even this isn't good conversation starter since my opinions are really quite irrelevant at this point.

Uh, how have I been lurkish?

[Calamitas]

So I very much agree with what iguana said. Also (and this is going to be the last in going to say on this because I think it is derailing actual scumhunting) I am most worried that what you want is to discuss what slots we think were taken earlier and what were taken later. I think everyone is going to have vastly more different opinions than you expect and I think discussing that will only give scum the knowledge of which players if they got a high draft spot would have picked dangerous powers. Add in the fact that as you said scum knows what they got. So if anyone says they value a slot scum has, scum knows they didn't get that slot and therefor that player most likely has a lower draft position and they don't need to nk them. I find it especially frustrating because you keep asserting 2-shot vig as the obvious number one power in the game, this is just asking for people to say know it would obviously be X and again then scum has that knowledge.

So yea I don't care if you respond, I think everyone if your town should just ignore any and all discussion about the setup for the rest of the day, in a game this large things are going to get out of hand, we need to cut the fluff as much as possible. I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.

I couldn't agree more

PPE: 3 pages (though not classical PPE but just not read them)

[O]

@Gkrieg I actually just found you scummy but I'm not the type to give each different person a paragraph.

@ E I found my favorite:

@O: If you bus your scumbuddy frisk today we can let you be the last alive of your scumteam.

I'm too busy bussing Robz, but you're too strongheaded to notice.

[2.71828.....]

Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.

this is the first scummy thing O has posted

If you want I can go and quote all the time's I've said something similar and it turned out to be true and I was scum breadcrumbing for lulz. Not the case here though.

So you openly admit your post is scummy in a very self-aware fashion.  Basically playing devil's advocate against yourself.  I absolutely love it. 

All this to say, O is my strongest town read right now.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.

This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.

You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.

It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"

Towny^^

Why?  He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum.  We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum.  And either way, it at least makes people choose sides.  It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people.  It just is.  Which isn't helpful D1.

False.

Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...

Part of a series of scummy posts from gkrieg. Not going to vote now because I don't know what the current vote count is. But at page 18 or so gkrieg just seems to be trying very hard to seem pro-town and such.

[gkrieg13]

I would be willing to lynch Robz

We may try that!

We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.

Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?

I don't think obsessing over this is going to help anything. Like I said before it is better to have people talk than have some weird posting restriction where people need to watch what they say. Mostly people will just reread certain people instead of the whole day.

[LaLight]

I've reread mcmc/TWM interaction on mcmc side.

That's how he joined the wagon

Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?

vote: twm

Sheep vote:twm

This is how he justifies his sheepvote

This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town.  Just like look at his newbie game.  He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.

Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.

More justifying existing wagon to not look bad for jumping on it. The reasoning is weak

This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town.  Just like look at his newbie game.  He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.

Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.

How does it look like scum TWM?

I think scum twm tries to kick do some semi aggressive scumhunting which he appeared to try to do(can't grab quotes at work) and especially the post he made calling jreggie scummy for referring to his own vote as serious. It was taking a small thing and calling it "suspicious" which isn't outright calling him scummy so hopefully other townies flood behind twm and start voting jreggie.

This is something very strange. You see read on TWM legit and question other townreads? Why in the world?

People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana

Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.

I like this as a plan fully but I hate your list of people. Why don't things ever work for us.

Like I actually see validity in your twm read which makes me sad, but are lalight, iguana, and rr there?

Then I guess I will jump off the wagon to not be on this wagon again

In fact vote: O this will be removed depending on how you respond and continue to play. Currently I think you are smart enough to know everything I said and are using "it's day one and scumhunting is hard/unhelpful" to sabotage town. Because yes scumhunting day one is hard and much less helpful than scumhunting later days, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and that way if we get it wrong today, as we often do, we can at least gain something from the reactions people had to the wagons ect. ect.

And then he returned to TWM after being called for voting O with weird justifying "he didn't answer my question".

vote: mcmc. looks like you caught yourself in the trap.

PPE: 4564651657654684

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point

Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?

[Awaclus]

And if someone knows of a D1 strategy that is "exceedingly likely to find scum" please do tell.

Lynching the guy who's trying to win by doing anti-town things on purpose is exceedingly likely to find scum.

[gkrieg13]

Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.

On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.

Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)

His tone seems townie, but he hasn't really done much this game besides try to talk about theory stuff, which is easy to do as either alignment.

[O]

@LaLight why would scum try and wagon me at all though. I've had so many people call me townie/pro-town that it's actually kinda weird and suspicious, doesn't feel like a great place for scum to start a wagon.

[Awaclus]

All this to say, O is my strongest town read right now.

So you're his scum partner.

[gkrieg13]

Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.

On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.

Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)

I find O to be a very useful pro-town player right now and would greatly object to lynching him today.

I am interested in your list of players you asked for opinions. 2 on your wagon, and two not-as-active players. Why us four?

This is a good description of how I feel towards O

[LaLight]

I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point

Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?

no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.

[gkrieg13]

Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.

Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.

This is town!Awaclus. He just became my highest town read actually.

[LaLight]

@LaLight why would scum try and wagon me at all though. I've had so many people call me townie/pro-town that it's actually kinda weird and suspicious, doesn't feel like a great place for scum to start a wagon.

Well, people here may justify scumread on you based on some of your posts. Look at Awaclus for one. I'd call it "easy wagon". Because any of us actually may reread you and call you scummy afterwards, but thing is that overall you're very townie and any townie understands that but out of context you may seem very scummy

PPE: 1

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So I very much agree with what iguana said. Also (and this is going to be the last in going to say on this because I think it is derailing actual scumhunting) I am most worried that what you want is to discuss what slots we think were taken earlier and what were taken later. I think everyone is going to have vastly more different opinions than you expect and I think discussing that will only give scum the knowledge of which players if they got a high draft spot would have picked dangerous powers. Add in the fact that as you said scum knows what they got. So if anyone says they value a slot scum has, scum knows they didn't get that slot and therefor that player most likely has a lower draft position and they don't need to nk them. I find it especially frustrating because you keep asserting 2-shot vig as the obvious number one power in the game, this is just asking for people to say know it would obviously be X and again then scum has that knowledge.

So yea I don't care if you respond, I think everyone if your town should just ignore any and all discussion about the setup for the rest of the day, in a game this large things are going to get out of hand, we need to cut the fluff as much as possible. I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.

This is really scummy to me. Vote: Mcmc

In fact vote: O this will be removed depending on how you respond and continue to play. Currently I think you are smart enough to know everything I said and are using "it's day one and scumhunting is hard/unhelpful" to sabotage town. Because yes scumhunting day one is hard and much less helpful than scumhunting later days, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and that way if we get it wrong today, as we often do, we can at least gain something from the reactions people had to the wagons ect. ect.

So is this. The contradictions are very weird as well.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.

Or you are just scummy.  LALL.

C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.

I was clearly joking.

town!ash doesn't crack jokes. Scummy.

I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point

Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?

no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.

How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?

[pingpongsam]

Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.

Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.

This is town!Awaclus. He just became my highest town read actually.

I agree that this is a TvT spat.

[AndrewisFTTW]

This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg.  So, in a word, scum.

I don't believe I do that as scum.  It's better than the absent gkrieg.

At least you aren't contesting the observation.

I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum.  I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny.  And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.

I do think that it is townie when faust does it.  I also think that is because it gets information out of people that they otherwise can hide.  I think asking questions gives more chance of people slipping up than not asking questions.  It also just depends on the mood I'm in that day.

Sounds like scum trying to pass this off as just another towny day for gkrieg. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[O]

@LaLight

Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways. 

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.

On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.

Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)

My LL vote was RVS. But even if it wasn't, the beauty of it being my vote is that you don't get a say in how valid it is. I also get alarm bells when players try to police others' play quite that much.

I'll have more time for reading later.. I'm at work from about 5am-2pm+ forum time, and in general this week that means being too busy to keep up with the thread during work hours, except maybe on a lunch break. Sorry if that's annoying for people :-(

Huh. PPE 61... that's what I get for trying to respond from work.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I finally caught up!  (during my chemistry class, hope that won't bite me in the butt)

Anyway, Vote: The_Wine_Merchant.  I don't like some of his setup speculation at the beginning.  I feel like he was trying to breadcrumb too much in it all (for possible fakeclaims in the future), and I feel like he's been reacting to the votes in a scummy way.  It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.

I think the way TWM is reacting to votes is pretty towny.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

But that doesn't mean I am wrong and I am trying to be aware of my bias.

So do you think you really only unvoted me because you didn't want to be too biased and then I continued to do things you found scummy so you decided to go back? That still doesn't let me know why while struggling to be unbiased you found my "take notes" pro town enough to invite but my "don't talk about the setup" as scummy.

I didn't really find you scummy for not wanting to talk about the setup. I found you scummy for the way you voted for O.

[LaLight]

What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.

Or you are just scummy.  LALL.

C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.

I was clearly joking.

town!ash doesn't crack jokes. Scummy.

I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point

Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?

no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.

How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?

No, no, no.

Let's go point by point.

1) That's what I call "look like IC": You're active in townie way and lead the town and 90% of players townread you.
2) "Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end" - I meant only Cuzz concerning this game, not all 4 people. "All those guys" is because there were many games where faust did the same thing, or Robz.
3) I don't necessarily think he is scum, it's just I an always wary about such players and I don't let myself be blinded by their activeness and towniness.

PPE: 5
PPE: 1 while typing "PPE: 5"