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[2.71828.....]

See, I don't think scum would make that "3 scum on the wagon" comment. I try to be more rational and reasonable as scum in an attempt to get everyone to see me as a reasonable, useful town player. Going out and claiming 3 scum on the wagon just doesn't make as much sense to me. Claiming 2 on, 1 off is fairly standard and safe. I think it is town who will have the gut read that 3 scum were on the wagon.

[Calamitas]

Robz, gkrieg? What do you think about LaLight, you two have played with him quite a lot as well.

Hmm, I feel like you're not paying as much attention as usual. Not only am I voting for LaLight, I have twice explained why I do think he's acting scummy.

Outside of the thing I pointed out--the three scum on wagon comment--I'm not sure his behavior has been wholly different than usual.

Totally oversaw that, thought you townread him because of #509.

[Robz888]

Robz, gkrieg? What do you think about LaLight, you two have played with him quite a lot as well.

Hmm, I feel like you're not paying as much attention as usual. Not only am I voting for LaLight, I have twice explained why I do think he's acting scummy.

Outside of the thing I pointed out--the three scum on wagon comment--I'm not sure his behavior has been wholly different than usual.

Totally oversaw that, thought you townread him because of #509.

Fair, I should have noted the disagreement on LL.

[EFHW]

Here are those posts by UoS I was talking about earlier.  I find I am less impressed by them than I was the first time through.  But I also saw long absences, including joining the game late, and his vote on Calamitas seems like RVS even though we were way past that at that point.  There's nothing to go on from Day 2 at all.  request prod: UoS

Welcome to the game, Harbinger.  I hope you have fun.

If I or someone else gets really aggressive toward you at some point during the game, please don't take it personally or as a sign that you're hated or something.  It's just a game, but a certain level of aggression is part of some of our playstyles.  It is mine at least.

As long as we're making general notes, I think the biggest way for Day 1 to end up being useless is for people to let others get away with "well it's just Day 1, so there isn't anything to talk about" excuses.  Town do this to be lazy, but it's great for scum to be able to get away with.

Anyway, wagons are fun.

Vote: Calamitas

You don't get anywhere on Day 1 without jumping on little scraps of evidence.

vote: UoS

[Jimmmmm]

I'm back; should have some time to catch up tonight.

[Dylan32]

I hate saying this after the discussion surrounding LL's 3 scum on wagon comment, but after reading everything, I think it's pretty likely that exactly one of the 3 scums would have been off both of the main wagons, aka {gkrieg, LL, WW}.  I reluctantly admit that gkrieg's "weird scum kill" comment does actually seem genuine, so he's probably town.  I still don't know what to make of LL this game. The D1 wagon on WW disappeared so fast, I actually think there is a decent chance he is scum.

Other reads:
scummy - UoS, Jimmmmm, Robz
townie - Calamitas, Eevee
null - everyone else

[Witherweaver]

I hate saying this after the discussion surrounding LL's 3 scum on wagon comment, but after reading everything, I think it's pretty likely that exactly one of the 3 scums would have been off both of the main wagons, aka {gkrieg, LL, WW}.  I reluctantly admit that gkrieg's "weird scum kill" comment does actually seem genuine, so he's probably town.  I still don't know what to make of LL this game. The D1 wagon on WW disappeared so fast, I actually think there is a decent chance he is scum.

Other reads:
scummy - UoS, Jimmmmm, Robz
townie - Calamitas, Eevee
null - everyone else

That's funny; when the wagon on you died it it was because you were town...

The top part seems to imply I'm scum and the bottom part implies I'm null.

[Dylan32]

I hate saying this after the discussion surrounding LL's 3 scum on wagon comment, but after reading everything, I think it's pretty likely that exactly one of the 3 scums would have been off both of the main wagons, aka {gkrieg, LL, WW}.  I reluctantly admit that gkrieg's "weird scum kill" comment does actually seem genuine, so he's probably town.  I still don't know what to make of LL this game. The D1 wagon on WW disappeared so fast, I actually think there is a decent chance he is scum.

Other reads:
scummy - UoS, Jimmmmm, Robz
townie - Calamitas, Eevee
null - everyone else

That's funny; when the wagon on you died it it was because you are town...

The top part seems to imply I'm scum and the bottom part implies I'm null.

FTFY, and in case you missed the bolded part, I'm not inconsistent about you at all.

[Witherweaver]

I see.

You are inconsistent about the implications of wagon disintegration, though.

[schadd]

UmbrageOfSnow has been prodded

[gkrieg13]

I'm still reading just not posting

[gkrieg13]

Ok, I'm ready to reread and breathe some life into this game.

I'm going into this knowing that RR is town and so is Eevee.  Not only that, but I want to look at what happened at the end of the day to keep the wagons on only those two.

LaLight has his weird scum trying to keep ash from playing the game thing.

Harbinger really attaches themselves to Calamitas by defending him.

UoS here feels similar to UoS in that RMM we just played.

"I got us out of RVS"

Classic scum ploy

Erm, why? I hate rvs and happy to do anything to get ua out. Actually, after quick reread, vote: Eevee.

LaLight's post here looks scummy.  Trying to brush aside the fact that something he did might have been scummy.

Jimmm is much more active and it looks like he is trying to scumhunt a lot more.

Calamitas seems townie here, fitting his meta of talking about the setup.

I don't want to try to read e right now.  He has always been a difficult one for me.

Dylan is scum. 

Dang it. I just reread everything twice and the only thing I come away with is a slight town read on Eevee. #105 seems like something scum would probably not say since bringing up flavor claiming is clearly not good for town. I think that was more likely confused/careless/distracted!town.  Other than that, I've just seen a whole bunch of null. At one time I had a reason for voting for Jimmmmm, but I've since forgotten what it was and couldn't remember on the reread.  I didn't see anything that made me want to move it now though.

If I had to pick someone to be suspicious of, right now it might be LL for the joke/not joke thing, although for unspeakable reasons I'm not putting much stock in that; and I might be a freckle suspicious of harbinger, purely for openly suggesting ignoring evidence prior to better evidence being available.  Once better evidence is there, yeah, I agree with his logic, but until it shows up, just discarding it because "all the other clues will probably overshadow it" isn't the best idea. This isn't really enough for me to scum!read them yet; it's just enough to read them closely.

This post just doesn't read as genuine emotion to me.

This reminds me how I always try to give reads or protect myself being town and people see my emotions over the top. I'm on Dylan's side here and vote: gkrieg because overemotionness is never from scum in my experience.

Keep this in mind for when Dylan flips scum.

Especially with LaLight trying to cast suspicion on Eevee for lurking.

Vote: LaLight

Meaning i am one of the best players? Well, thank you, but no. I am still town. Do you have any case?

Only scum worry about votes with no case.

Vote: Lalight

Erm, no? I always worry about it.
I don't like how quickly my wagon is growing. I am ready to say there's scum on it. vote: Dylan32

This is both scummy for LaLight and for Dylan.  Looks like a partner interaction.

Wow ya Dylan is definitely scum.

Why?

I think his emotion was off on that post I mentioned earlier, and I think this weird sheep vote is also out of character for him.

I was going to vote LL after rereading anyway and voiced agreement for the previous vote. I didn't actually intend to suggest that the prior vote led me to that conclusion, although looking back I definitely see why you see it like that.

Scum likes to do this too.  It is much easier to tell someone that they misunderstood your intentions than actually just tell them they are wrong.  Scum tend to be more polite IMO.

Yes, my wagon is quite weird.

This seems like LaLight is trying to not freak out about how large his wagon is, which is not like him.

Hi and thanks EFHW!

Vote: Robz.

For...?

Because you are hard for me to read. Apparently that is enough...

And this is the way that Dylan gets off of LaLight's wagon...

Hey, looking at my other reread, it looks like I have come to almost the exact same conslusion rereading this part of the game.

Playing more and more i more often ask myself, how would it be if i was in a scum team with guys i played ~10 games with. It's just i try to imagine me and dylan in a team. I think that would be more professional, but I don't know

Just putting this here.

Robz strangely defends LaLight and Dylan.

I don't really agree with gkrieg's reads at all, which is unusual. I think his reasons for suspecting LaLight and Dylan aren't that good, and they're terrible by town!gkrieg standards.

I think it's most likely neither LL nor Dylan are scum, and baffling unlikely they are both scum.

I'm tempted to vote for Gkrieg here!

He even says my reads are so bad that he is tempted to vote for me.

I'm going to get all the Eevee wagon votes and the RR wagon votes and put there here:

Too many people on it. I think he/other scum would me more motivated to do something about that if it was correct.

I would join to avoid no lynch, I really really can't read WW, other than his wagon positions and such. He is a total mystery to me until we get flips (so I agree a great lynch in that regard - i don't think he would be one of the hardest people to develop a strong townread on for me as well later).

Actually kind of talking myself into voting WW now. The perils of being too damn good at being scum.

Vote: eevee

This post and the one before feel scummy to me. I will be around leading up to deadline

I'll sheep e and vote:  Eevee. I wish I more time to come up with my own opinion. Next time.

Man I hate all these options. Random vote RR? Just because I can't recall a single contribution from RR the whole game, and didn't in fact recall RR was even playing?

Vote: RR

Vote: RR

meep meep

Vote: RR appeals to me.

It's not really important at this point Robz, but about the joke thing.  I was just commenting on the "no one had reasons for this" thing you said.

Anyway I mostly wanted to get a comment from the others voting LaLight who I think didn't buy my reasoning originally.

I don't actually want to lynch LaLight anymore, don't see that vote move coming from scum, it's like he's trying to get himself lynched.

I concur that Roadrunner is probably a person, happy to vote there, like so:
Vote: Roadrunner

Is there a reason we prefer RR as a low-information lynch to Dylan?

vote: eevee

I just have nothing to say. It's D1, I've been sort of VLA, and nothing has really stuck out as towny or scummy to me.

I will, however, Vote: Eevee because that's the biggest viable wagon.

But in all seriousness, vote: RR

Posts #304-307. Does Robz usually flop around this much looking for something to stick? After his RR vote, Eevee and Jim immediately jumped on it.

I didn't get the sense he was flopping around looking for something to stick. I mean, Robz is a very sheepable player, not too surprised people jumped on, especially since RR hasn't done anything

Yeah, like I said, I realized there wasn't really enough time for him to actually be waiting to see what other people would do.  My scum read on Robz has actually dropped quite a bit. I think I still lean scum, but would lean town on him if RR flips scum.

Oh my goodness, if (and hopefully when) RR flips scum you should more than "lean" town on me, I'm all but confirmed then! But that's a discussion for tomorrow.

Meh, I could see vet!scum (you fit that bill) being smart enough to bus a completely inactive partner exactly for this reason.

Okay, well, no, I would never do that, but this isn't a conversation worth having right now.

Trust me. Robz wouldn't do that.

I will go ahead and vote: RR

So those are all the votes on the major wagons before RR claimed.

@Dylan/WW/gkrieg: If you had to pick right now, who would you lynch, RR or Eevee?

I have to leave soon and I want one or more of you guys to just give me more of an idea where you stand.

This post is pretty scummy from UoS, trying to make the lynch between two townies.

I'm on and off.

I guess I'll move to RR to get a lynch, but I really doubt he is scum, whereas Dylan is actually scum

You actually think that? Very confidently? Based on the emotion thing? I don't believe you think that, it's out of character for you. Again, it's too late to try and lynch you but I find you very suspicious this game.

It should be very obvious to you now that I'm town.


Ok, so I just got through the first day, I'll do the second day later.

At this point, Calamitas, Jimmmmm, are town reads
WW, e, UoS, Robz, and EFHW are null, with WW and EFHW being higher towards town
Dylan, LaLight are lynch lynch lynch.

Wow, talk about wall of text.

[Robz888]

Re: gkrieg

It IS very obvious to me that you are town now, yes. SO I take your reads seriously.

I see what you're saying about LaLight, that's why I'm voting him. I still don't really see it about Dylan, though. The emotion thing... I just, no. I don't see it.

As for the rest of your reads, I agree that Jimm and EFHW feel pretty townie. Less sure about E, Calamitas, and UoS, particularly E, who gives me this almost inexplicable bad feeling.

[EFHW]

I agree that Dylan's post is scummy. I don't know if I'd call it the emotion, but he seems very wishy washy. I would also vote LL. He doesn't seem like himself.

Other thoughts, Robz seems like he might be buddying gkrieg. gkrieg made a good post, but obv!town seems a bit excessive. WW is a complete enigma. I'm null on Calamitas. e seems towny so far. Jimmmmm and UoS have been my early thoughts for scum, but not overwhelming cases. I'll vote: Dylan at this point.

[Witherweaver]

Hoo rah rah

Vote: Dylan

[LaLight]

I am trying not to freak out on wagons because I think this is a better play. Look at Stranger Things, hat was where I freaked out and I was scum. And I actually felt bad because of it, so I try not to.

I am not Dylan's partner, I never saw these interactions with him you are referring to.

I am trying to improve my play over every game.

[Dylan32]

Ok. I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.  I know it's part of the game, but if you know you just read me completely wrong in another game in which I looked pretty much the same as this one, what makes you so freaking confident that you have it right this time?  If you all actually push through a lynch on me, when I flip town, just kill gkrieg for me... I think some people have this expectation that I look pretty much always look really towny (as evidenced by someone saying I checked all the boxes of being hard to read, usually looking towny, but not here") because I had a couple pretty dang good games early in my time here, but now that I'm more used to how forum mafia works and with you all in general, I'm less guarded with how I post, and because it's "less towny sounding" people keep saying that's enough to believe I'm scum. May I remind you that the game I looked the towniest, I was scum and ended up being given the MVP. Gkrieg is literally basing his entire read on me on "Dang it." Yeah, at the time I posted that, I was pretty disgusted with how D1 of a different game had gone, and I was annoyed that after everything that had been said in this game to that point, I didn't really see anything that I could base a solid read off of. So do whatever you want, but you seriously aren't going to hit scum by lynching me...

[Jimmmmm]

More or less caught up. Only a couple of comments at the moment. I think general wagon analysis ("I think there are x scum on the wagon") is next to useless, and more useful for scum to manipulate people with. In response to EFHW's comments about "day 1 filler posts", well you're probably right but Day 1 is a good time for them I would have thought; certainly beats not posting much which I've done in the past.

I don't have huge objections to any of the wagons at the moment (UoS, LL, Calamatis I think); I'll have a close look at each when I get a chance.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.

I hope you're not referring to other active games.

This post seems fairly genuine to me.

[Robz888]

I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.

I hope you're not referring to other active games.

This post seems fairly genuine to me.

Me too, and I think "frustrated town" is a fairly likely explanation for Dylan's behavior.

I'm going to Vote: UoS, mostly just to provide support to an alternative wagon and incentivize him to show up.

[gkrieg13]

Ok. I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.  I know it's part of the game, but if you know you just read me completely wrong in another game in which I looked pretty much the same as this one, what makes you so freaking confident that you have it right this time?  If you all actually push through a lynch on me, when I flip town, just kill gkrieg for me... I think some people have this expectation that I look pretty much always look really towny (as evidenced by someone saying I checked all the boxes of being hard to read, usually looking towny, but not here") because I had a couple pretty dang good games early in my time here, but now that I'm more used to how forum mafia works and with you all in general, I'm less guarded with how I post, and because it's "less towny sounding" people keep saying that's enough to believe I'm scum. May I remind you that the game I looked the towniest, I was scum and ended up being given the MVP. Gkrieg is literally basing his entire read on me on "Dang it." Yeah, at the time I posted that, I was pretty disgusted with how D1 of a different game had gone, and I was annoyed that after everything that had been said in this game to that point, I didn't really see anything that I could base a solid read off of. So do whatever you want, but you seriously aren't going to hit scum by lynching me...

I'm not basing my entire read off of one post. Did you read that long thing I posted?  There were plenty of other things in there about you and about you being scum.

[LaLight]

Ok. I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.  I know it's part of the game, but if you know you just read me completely wrong in another game in which I looked pretty much the same as this one, what makes you so freaking confident that you have it right this time?  If you all actually push through a lynch on me, when I flip town, just kill gkrieg for me... I think some people have this expectation that I look pretty much always look really towny (as evidenced by someone saying I checked all the boxes of being hard to read, usually looking towny, but not here") because I had a couple pretty dang good games early in my time here, but now that I'm more used to how forum mafia works and with you all in general, I'm less guarded with how I post, and because it's "less towny sounding" people keep saying that's enough to believe I'm scum. May I remind you that the game I looked the towniest, I was scum and ended up being given the MVP. Gkrieg is literally basing his entire read on me on "Dang it." Yeah, at the time I posted that, I was pretty disgusted with how D1 of a different game had gone, and I was annoyed that after everything that had been said in this game to that point, I didn't really see anything that I could base a solid read off of. So do whatever you want, but you seriously aren't going to hit scum by lynching me...

I'm not basing my entire read off of one post. Did you read that long thing I posted?  There were plenty of other things in there about you and about you being scum.

And also about me. gkrieg, if you have any time, try to analyse my game in Sranger Things. It was different from normal. Now it is okay, I am town again and not in such a stress of being scum.

[Dylan32]

Ok. I'm actually getting tired of trying to defend myself from gkrieg in this and other games as town.  I know it's part of the game, but if you know you just read me completely wrong in another game in which I looked pretty much the same as this one, what makes you so freaking confident that you have it right this time?  If you all actually push through a lynch on me, when I flip town, just kill gkrieg for me... I think some people have this expectation that I look pretty much always look really towny (as evidenced by someone saying I checked all the boxes of being hard to read, usually looking towny, but not here") because I had a couple pretty dang good games early in my time here, but now that I'm more used to how forum mafia works and with you all in general, I'm less guarded with how I post, and because it's "less towny sounding" people keep saying that's enough to believe I'm scum. May I remind you that the game I looked the towniest, I was scum and ended up being given the MVP. Gkrieg is literally basing his entire read on me on "Dang it." Yeah, at the time I posted that, I was pretty disgusted with how D1 of a different game had gone, and I was annoyed that after everything that had been said in this game to that point, I didn't really see anything that I could base a solid read off of. So do whatever you want, but you seriously aren't going to hit scum by lynching me...

I'm not basing my entire read off of one post. Did you read that long thing I posted?  There were plenty of other things in there about you and about you being scum.

Yes I did. And every other thing you said was interpreted through the base assumption that I was scum and that must mean some of LL and my interactions looked partnery. That is the extent of your case, and you only see it that way because of confirmation bias from "dang it." The only reason I did get off of LL's wagon was because I thought Robz reason for his vote was scummier than LL was at the time. Just because you didn't understand the reason through the satire, doesn't mean it wasn't a good reason. I'm 99% sure from his reaction, that Robz knew exactly what I meant when I said that. I completely stand behind moving my vote to Robz when I did.

[EFHW]

...In response to EFHW's comments about "day 1 filler posts", well you're probably right but Day 1 is a good time for them I would have thought; certainly beats not posting much which I've done in the past.

I agree with that.

[gkrieg13]

Ok, I'll finish my reread.

Yeah so much for leaning town on Robz after the flip. Right now Robz is scummy, and (admittedly a bit of OMGUS) gkrieg feels slightly scummy to, in part because of the whole "that was the hammer right?" and then going offline through the end of the deadline at L-1. I know it is a mistake town could honestly make, but it is also perfect excuse to leave your vote on a wagon you know is town for scum.

Oh ya.  Then there is this.  How is this scummy again? 

Not sure whether scum!gkrieg is less likely to make that statement than town!gkrieg.
Either way, I don't like that robz didn't move to eevee right after rr's claim. Why did you do that?

I think that this would have been scummy had eevee flipped scum, like "wait until I know the lynch won't quite make it through but bus my partner late"

But eevee flipped town, so Robz is pretty null to me right now. Not null in the sense of no read, but null in that he was pretty quiet, helped push town to action late D1, but then his target flipped town. His activity is towny, end result leaves some suspicion, but not enough to push him into the scummy camp

This is decent reasoning from e.

Yeah so much for leaning town on Robz after the flip. Right now Robz is scummy, and (admittedly a bit of OMGUS) gkrieg feels slightly scummy to, in part because of the whole "that was the hammer right?" and then going offline through the end of the deadline at L-1. I know it is a mistake town could honestly make, but it is also perfect excuse to leave your vote on a wagon you know is town for scum.

This feels like Dylan looking for excuses to vote for people. Gkrieg had stated he would be on/off towards the deadline, there is nothing strange about his play at the end.

If I were looking for excuses to vote for people, I would have, well, you know, voted... I'm just saying the way I see things.

Yeah so much for leaning town on Robz after the flip. Right now Robz is scummy, and (admittedly a bit of OMGUS) gkrieg feels slightly scummy to, in part because of the whole "that was the hammer right?" and then going offline through the end of the deadline at L-1. I know it is a mistake town could honestly make, but it is also perfect excuse to leave your vote on a wagon you know is town for scum.

Ok, I actually thought it was the hammer.  I wasn't excited about the RR lynch anyway.  And I was one of 3 people not on either town wagon.  How is that scummy.

I wasn't excited about either wagon, but was basically told shut up and get on one of these wagons in so many words.

Seems like you are trying to get out of the fact that you were voting for town.

I'm thinking the people who were on RR's wagon and didn't hang around or come back to hear a claim. That's UoS, Jimmmmm, e. I feel like e has been pretty towny.  UoS I'm completely null on.  I remember having some thoughts about Jimmmmm Day 1 regarding his advice posts that felt like filler. 

I'll vote: Jimmmmm, and look into UoS some more.

This is also decent reasoning.

Lots of people are stating that they don't want the game to stall, but no one is really putting forth cases or actually doing the rereads that they say they are going to do.

To recap, I am waiting for gkrieg to explain his scum read on EFHW and for E to explain his vote for UoS.

I am voting LaLight for advancing the case that we had all three scum on wagon, which I doubt.

This has dissolved a bit.  I feel like EFHW tries to steer things more when she is scum, and will more outright defend her partners, which I don't see a lot of yet.

I don't get why e thinks that WW is scummy.  Even the reasoning that e had for WW being scum seemed townie to me.

And WW makes a good point that Dylan is painting WW as scum because his wagon D1 died down quickly, which is the exact opposite of what he says for his wagon.