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[ashersky]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

The post before this was a defense of gkrieg, sort of.  For someone who says they are a 1-shot Cop who used their shot on gkrieg, it's interesting.

[ashersky]

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

Super Town faust scum read gkrieg a lot.

[ashersky]

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

Why not Cop one of your top suspects?

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz Bye Robz. You are now seeming more and more scummy.

Btw, this is the vote for robz which comes after it was cleared up what went down.

Also Town read on EFHW whose posts I think have all been very pro town and around the same time as jake was pushing robz up until the explaination and then unvoted and confirmed that yes robz was pushing Joseph because it looked like awc soft-claimed.

mcmc town read on EFHW.

[ashersky]

So at the end of all that, it seems like everyone so far has gkrieg in their lynchpool.

I don't.

Man, more town reading.

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW

[ashersky]

Buried in there, on the QT quote, gkrieg misrepresents a little...he says he picked up something others did.  No one else really did until he introduced the idea and TWM pulled quotes for him.

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I don't get why it is scummy that I townread and defended someone.  I had some pretty good evidence (meta) and I don't really whiteknight as scum.  I will point out that I was right in the end anyway, and my reads have been pretty good lately.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

I don't really believe that I lurk more as scum.  I feel like I have been as active in this game as I usually am anyway.  I feel like Jake could be a really good mafia player, but that he does need a little bit of coaching.  I think it would certainly boost his record if he took some of my advice.  I actually don't like this point at all.  The last time I was lynched D1 was when I was town, and it was for having too much fluff.  The posts that I have made haven't been acti-lurking posts, I have been making some good posts, expressing reads (strong reads, not ones that I can really back out of).  None of those things are really scummy.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

I stand by the fact that looking at the behavior Robz looked really scummy.  Why would town!Robz repeat a behavior that he did as scum anyway?  I get the new information that Robz shared, but I still think he is scummy for still wanting Joseph to be hammered.  I think everyone understood that a 1v1 D1 on the UB is definitely worth the counterclaim.  UB isn't super amazing awesome in this setup anyway, which is why in FanFiction mafia, we had the UB claim (I admit that this was scum driven, but enough people agreed on it that I think it is true).  Also I think when dealing with Robz, he is pretty good at explaining his way out of a scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I post honestly as both alignments.  It's my speech pattern, and I use it IRL as well and it bugs my wife.

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

I also don't agree with this point.  I stand by this, and lynching me D1 is a bad choice anyway.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

I said that "confirmed" is what I posted in my QT, because it was half a joke, and something that I hadn't planned on sharing.  I only shared it because I picked up on something that other people did.  I think it does matter if I think Awaclus looked like he was claiming UB.  That is the only measure I have for seeing if I believed that Robz honestly thought that.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I don't really get what you mean here

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

Well you really did choose to view everything I have done in a scum-centered light.  I have been giving solid reads on people as I have been reading the game.  I haven't been lurking, and I still think that Robz is our best shot at lynching scum today.  I think it was Axxle that said that his correct lynch rate was high because he looks at individual posts to find someone scummy, and I think that can be a very good technique.

responses in bold.

[Awaclus]

I just finished my re-read and this is my conclusion.

Vote: EFHW

Do you have a partner for her?

There are multiple plausible options, but I'll figure that out later.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

Why not Cop one of your top suspects?

I think I said this already, but my thinking was that I had become less confident in my scum reads as the strongerish ones from Day1 ended up being town (Joseph and Robz), so I felt that if my scum reads were wrong, maybe my town reads were wrong as well and that was I off base on town reading gkrieg. Obviously it would have been better to hit mafia (and maybe I did, but just hit the godfather), but I think gkrieg was a pretty good cop choice.

[ashersky]

I would be fine with a Robz lynch, an Awaclus lynch.  Not really feeling mcmc or RR.

This looks bad in retrospect.

[ashersky]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

At this point, the existing wagons were Robz, Awa, and gkrieg.

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

So he can't say we didn't remember. 

[ashersky]

I will say that both mcmc and EFHW were online just a minute ago, I saw them in the Who's Online page. They were reading this thread. Neither has appeared. Both really need to move their votes.

This is pretty bad.  This is crazy deadline rush at the end of D1 time.

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

I sort of already made it... you're playing pretty hard for a newbie, but you seem to think "pick someone and push them hard for a lynch" is what you should be doing, which is exactly what I thought I should do in my first scum game, Mafia 2.

My scum read on TWM had started when TWM asked for this from Orbz.

[ashersky]

Scum: Wine Merchant, awaclus, very probably either faust or gkrieg but not both

Not getting particularly scummy vibes from ash, I think scum ash wouldn't have gone after me here

Robz is adamant on TWM.

[ashersky]

Ok, finished D1.  Robz is lynched and we have the unexplainable Calamitas NK. 

I keep ending up with gkrieg+TWM or EFHW+mcmc, but not really any other combo.

Scum distancing is a thing, but EFHW even subbed in so they couldn't plan it, if they did.

Will read the rest of the days soon.

[ashersky]

When is the deadline?

[EFHW]

Friday. 

ssschaddd - what time is deadline?

[EFHW]

I will say that both mcmc and EFHW were online just a minute ago, I saw them in the Who's Online page. They were reading this thread. Neither has appeared. Both really need to move their votes.

This is pretty bad.  This is crazy deadline rush at the end of D1 time.

I did come on and vote 27 seconds later. I don't remember why I wasn't there sooner.

[gkrieg13]

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd.

[gkrieg13]

Oh never mind.  Just noticed that the time is missing...

[schadd]

whh0ps. 1pm forum time, 48hr and 14 min from now

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.3

mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
EFHW (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13

Not voting (3): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, mcmcsalot

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd, 1pm forum time, in just under 48 hours

[mcmcsalot]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

[gkrieg13]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

Woah, woah, woah there.  I put EFHW to L-2 (which isn't a big deal), for NO REASON???.  Where have you been the whole game???

I have put forth many reasons why EFHW is scum, throughout today, and even D1, and D2.  I mean come on.