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[schadd]

welcome to M91: trouble in the Scouncil!

this game will use asher9++, a setup for 12 players. it was designed by ashersky as a semi-open setup that is v. cool and fun and stuff

mod: schadd; comod: LaLight

spectator tags: Axxle, J Reggie, e, Dylan32

1. The_Wine_Merchant    survived; godfather           
2. ashersky (née IDontPlayThisGame) endgamed; rb
3. Robz888 lynched d1; vt     
4. Jakethebaseballgod22 lynched d2; vt
5. Calamitas killed n1; vt                     
6. Awaclus endgamed; vt 
7. McEFHW lynched d4; vt       
8. Joseph2302 killed n3; ub                         
9. mcmcsalot survived; mafia rb       
10. faust killed n2; vt
11. Roadrunner7671 lynched d3, 1-shot SM                           
12. gkrieg13   endgamed; vt     

         mafia      wins!

game state tracker:
day 1 -- end
day 2 -- end
day 3 -- end
day 4 -- end

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, aquamarine text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.

[schadd]

Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (“Either” Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2

C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2

D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3

Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2

Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)

Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3

Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail.  If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.

[schadd]

each player has a distinct flavor that doesn't have anything at all to do with the game. everyone is the head of a distinct department in the scouncil; some of them sound kinda menacing, but know that it is always the one that you least suspect. or, sometimes the one that you most suspect. or, uh, somewhere in the middle.
  this is all to say, i came up with all of the departments and then randomized which ones get which roles.


  here is the PM received by vanilla townies, with a (fake) department that i came up with just now:

you are the head of the department of fart lasers—these critical tools of military and girl-removal have been at the forefront of aegence's technological concerns for decades.
  you are a vanilla townie! you don’t have any special powers, but hopefully you are good at voting.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

...and the rest
1-shot doc

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a 1-shot doctor! once, at night, you may target a player; that player is protected from being killed. you are doing snad’s work.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

doc

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a doctor! each night, you may target a player; that player is protected from being killed. you are doing snad’s work.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

1-shot cop

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a 1-shot cop! once, at night, you may target a player; you will learn, come morning, whether that player is, in fact, mafia-aligned.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

cop

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a cop! each night, you may target a player; you will learn, come morning, whether that player is, in fact, mafia-aligned.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

1-shot vig

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a 1-shot vigilante! once, at night, you may target a player other than yourself; this player will die a gruesome death. well, about as gruesome as most deaths in Competitive Discussion.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

vig

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a vigilante! each night, you may target a player other than yourself; this player will die a gruesome death. well, about as gruesome as most deaths in Competitive Discussion.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

mason

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a mason! you have an ally in this fight, with whom you may speak, privately, at [qt].
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

ic

you are the (flavor)
 you are an innocent child! at the beginning of the game, i will tell everyone that you are town. i mean, it's not like i even need to—just look at you! so innocent!
 you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

1-shot rb

  you are the (flavor) 
  you are a town 1-shot roleblocker! once, at night, you may target one player; whatever night action that player takes is blocked.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

rb

  you are the (flavor) 
  you are a town roleblocker! each night, you may target one player; whatever night action that player takes is blocked.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

ub

  you are the (flavor) 
  you are a town universal backup! the first time a town power role dies, you will inherit it. this includes 1-shots that already shot. haha.
  you win when all mafia players are dead, and at least one town player is left alive.

goon

  you are the (flavor)
  you are a mafia goon! at night, you may talk with your scumfriends, in [qt].
  you win when all town players are dead, or when nothing can prevent them all from dying, and also at least one mafia remains alive as well.

scum rb

  you are the (flavor)
  you are the mafia roleblocker! each night, you may target one player; whatever night action that player takes is blocked.
  at night, you may talk with your scumfriends, in [qt].
  you win when all town players are dead, or when nothing can prevent them all from dying, and also at least one mafia remains alive as well.

1-shot sm

  you are the (flavor)
  you are the 1-shot strongman. once, at night, you may decide to use your strongman power; if you do, and you perform the factional kill, you will break through one protective ability (i.e. doctor or roleblocker.)
  at night, you may talk with your scumfriends, in [qt].
  you win when all town players are dead, or when nothing can prevent them all from dying, and also at least one mafia remains alive as well.

sm

  you are the (flavor)
  you are the strongman. at night, if you perform the factional kill, you will break through one protective ability (i.e. doctor or roleblocker.)
  at night, you may talk with your scumfriends, in [qt].

  you win when all town players are dead, or when nothing can prevent them all from dying, and also at least one mafia remains alive as well.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Is this game open for players that have not played before? If so, I would like to play.

[schadd]

Is this game open for players that have not played before? If so, I would like to play.

it very much is.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is this game open for players that have not played before? If so, I would like to play.

Yes! This game definitely is super newbie friendly! Join!

/in

[gkrieg13]

/in

[pacovf]

I would definitely play a BM modded by schadd.

[schadd]

I would definitely play a BM modded by schadd.

i would as well, because of how BMs tend to work. alas

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

/in

[Calamitas]

/in if this doesn't start before the 20th

[Axxle]

/tag for the flavor

[Awaclus]

/in

[Joseph2302]

/tag

[McGarnacle]

/in

Wow, its good to be back!

[ashersky]

/tag

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

/in

Wow, its good to be back!

He's back!!

[Twistedarcher]

/in

[J Reggie]

/

[gkrieg13]

/out

[schadd]

/

vas ist das?

[McGarnacle]

/

vas ist das?

Das is ein /tag, ohne "tag".

[McGarnacle]

/

vas Was ist das?

Also, FTFY

[LaLight]

/

vas ist das?

Das is ist ein /tag, ohne "tag".

FTFY

[McGarnacle]

/

vas ist das?

Das is ist ein /tag, ohne "tag".

FTFY

Lol right    I've been learning German for years, and I still suck at it.

[silverspawn]

Your correction isn't 100% correct, either there is no comma allowed at that position. Just "... ein /tag ohne "tag"."

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Bump

[Roadrunner7671]

/out

[IDontPlayThisGame]

/in

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[mcmcsalot]

/maybe

[Robz888]

/in for now

But if this starts too soon I might have to out.

[mcmcsalot]

/in for now

But if this starts too soon I might have to out.

/samzies

[Dylan32]

/tag for flavor. If it doesn't start until January 1, I'll join, but I don't want to join another game and be gone for the first few (irl) days.

[faust]

/in

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

[gkrieg13]

I will /hammer, but it looks like people want this to start after the holidays anyway

[schadd]

uh, so

/in for now

But if this starts too soon I might have to out.

how soon is too soon?

[Robz888]

I won't go out either way, but is it okay to wait until Mafia 90 has begun Day 3?

[schadd]

I won't go out either way, but is it okay to wait until Mafia 90 has begun Day 3?

sure

[Twistedarcher]

/out, vacation time is over by the time this will start

[Robz888]

Sorry I didn't mean to hold this up. Start it whenever is convenient for others

[LaLight]

Sorry I didn't mean to hold this up. Start it whenever is convenient for others

Well, we need one more player now

[Joseph2302]

Sorry I didn't mean to hold this up. Start it whenever is convenient for others

Well, we need one more player now

I always lose at asher9++.

But anyway, let's /hammer.

[Awaclus]

I always lose at asher9++.

Hopefully we're on opposing teams then!

[schadd]

alrighty then. i am going to send PMs out now, please confirm (by saying "confirm" in your QT) under the following time constraint:

whenever is convenient for others

[schadd]

thread locked! N0 is now!

[schadd]

oh, here's the flavor


    trouble has struck in the Wonderful Omniruling Scouncil of Aegence! a vast epidemic of sneddism has emerged among our impressionable teens, and our expert cultologists have computed that a sned-spread of this magnitude and diversity must surely be derived from our most innermostest leadership.
   hi. i’m your innermostest hostess, greaseth wobbles-wednesday, here reporting the hottest snews on the latest snissues. today, the Scouncil is holding a Competitive Discussion to determine which department heads are, in fact, imposing these detestable values on today's youth; this C. D., like most, ends in death. may snad impose their blessing on the good guys; but uh, not too hard, because we are totally rolling in ratings right now and we would like this to last until zoohre’s fifth finger.
    may snad’s blessing be with all of you, may sned's blessing be with a quickly decreasing number of you, and to all a good night.

[schadd]

leaving the thread unlocked in case this incites more tagging. don't post, scouncilfolks

[schadd]

    the opening ceremony is over, and the shamans are now putting all of their ritual paraphernalia back into their suitcases and heading out. thanks, shamans! alright, now, the scouncilfolk are now starting to stand on their chairs and begin the CD. i am dying to see what happens next, and, more importantly, so are you, the wonderful viewers. on your marks, get set, go!

Day 1 begins.

Vote Count 1.NaN

Not Voting (12): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Jakethebaseballgod22, Calamitas, Awaclus, McGarnacle, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, faust, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, January 7th (2017) at noon forum time (taking an extra day because of the whole new year thing)

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Hey everyone! Looking forward to this game. This has come up in the other games I've played, so could we do a quick pronoun check? I use he/him/his.

Also, vote: LaLight

[Roadrunner7671]

could we do a quick pronoun check? .

Sure. I also use him/he/his.

And it's pretty funny that N0 only lasted about 15 hours even though we were encouraged to confirm at our own convenience.

[faust]

Hey everyone! Looking forward to this game. This has come up in the other games I've played, so could we do a quick pronoun check? I use he/him/his.

Can you take this to a non-game thread please? This is ver distracting. You can you any pronouns for me, except I/me/mine, that might get too confusing.

[faust]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

[schadd]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

yeah. unless it means somebody other than the wine merchant, in which case, lmao

[Awaclus]

Does silverspawn not play mafia anymore or just less frequently?

Vote: silverspawn regardless.

[Awaclus]

Also, I don't care what pronouns you use of me because I also don't always remember to care what pronouns I use of other people since my native language doesn't have gendered pronouns so I'm not perfectly used to thinking that way, but I'm male.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Big G

[gkrieg13]

vote: WW

because, you know, he is scum.

Vote: Big G

The irony of this is that both of the gs in my name are small...

[Robz888]

That was a very short night 0.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

Vote: Jake
Vote: Big G

[Robz888]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

Also, note, we have two "Mc"s in this game: McGarnacle and mcmcsalot. Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

Also, note, we have two "Mc"s in this game: McGarnacle and mcmcsalot. Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

Who's better? 

[mcmcsalot]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

Also, note, we have two "Mc"s in this game: McGarnacle and mcmcsalot. Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

Who's better? 

I'm better at reads and he's better at convincing people his reads are right which means we come out about equally successful at the game.

Also woah lots of new people in this game, I don't care what pronouns are used for me but I'm a male.

[Joseph2302]

Hey everyone! Looking forward to this game. This has come up in the other games I've played, so could we do a quick pronoun check? I use he/him/his.

Also, vote: LaLight

I generally accept he/his, but tend to use them/their unless your F.ds profile says you're male

[Joseph2302]

Also, Vote: Jake

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

Sure. It is what I use in the quicktopics.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

I should totally get my brother involved...

PPE: 1

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That was a very short night 0.

How long are they normally?

[Robz888]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

I should totally get my brother involved...

PPE: 1

I find excessive PPE-ing to be scummy. It means you're spending a lot of time thinking about your post and how it will be interpreted.

Vote: IDP

[McGarnacle]

That was a very short night 0.

How long are they normally?

Probably depends on the scum players.

vote: TWM

[schadd]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

but i can, unfortunately

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

I should totally get my brother involved...

PPE: 1

I find excessive PPE-ing to be scummy. It means you're spending a lot of time thinking about your post and how it will be interpreted.

Vote: IDP

What do you mean by "excessive"?

[mcmcsalot]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Big G

The irony of this is that both of the gs in my name are small...

Wait so big G is gkrieg and Jake is JaketheBaseballGod, I assumed big G was a joke about the God part.

[Robz888]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

I should totally get my brother involved...

PPE: 1

I find excessive PPE-ing to be scummy. It means you're spending a lot of time thinking about your post and how it will be interpreted.

Vote: IDP

What do you mean by "excessive"?

Genuinely you would say "PPE: 1" in order to note that you hadn't read a subsequent post: this is essentially a disclaimer that they content you are providing isn't up to date and does not into consideration whatever post you had missed. But it wasn't really necessary in the case you used it, it's not like a subsequent post could make the non-game observation "I should get my brother involved" obsolete.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Big G

The irony of this is that both of the gs in my name are small...

Wait so big G is gkrieg and Jake is JaketheBaseballGod, I assumed big G was a joke about the God part.

Oh man, this is so confusing already.
Vote: JTBG

[Joseph2302]

I'm sure JTBG is scum again. Just like he was last time we played....

[Awaclus]

I still don't get why it's so difficult for people to type gkrieg that you need a nickname for him. It's just g and then krieg, just like in blitzkrieg.

[Robz888]

I think we mostly call Jakethebaseballgod just "Jake."

IDP is what we used in the last game with him.

The Wine Merchant is a newbie so that's still up in the air.

[Robz888]

I still don't get why it's so difficult for people to type gkrieg that you need a nickname for him. It's just g and then krieg, just like in blitzkrieg.

Agree with this.

[Robz888]

Wine Merchant, may I ask, what is your familiarity level with mafia the game?

[Calamitas]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

Sure. It is what I use in the quicktopics.

which quicktopics?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Wine Merchant, may I ask, what is your familiarity level with mafia the game?

I haven't done an online game before, but I have played a lot in person, so I understand the principles and the mechanics. I followed RMM39 and am following M90. And I have read/skimmed probably about half a dozen historical games on this site.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

Sure. It is what I use in the quicktopics.

which quicktopics?

The two spectator ones I am in (RMM39 and M70) and the one I confirmed in for this game

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Got an error while trying to quote, so:

@Robz- Ah, okay. My understanding was that you put it at the end of any post if something was posted between the time you started writing your post and when you posted it, regardless of whether it affects what you were writing.

[Calamitas]

Also vote: TWM

Is that a valid abbreviation?

Sure. It is what I use in the quicktopics.

which quicktopics?

The two spectator ones I am in (RMM39 and M70) and the one I confirmed in for this game

Now I got it, read it a bit differently the first time. All fine then

[McGarnacle]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

McGladwrap was my favorite

[Calamitas]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

I much prefer "Cala" to "Calm", "Calm" throws me off guard every single time

[gkrieg13]

I think I always type out Calamitas and McGarnacle.

I think TWM is pretty easy to understand.

gkrieg isn't hard to spell or long enough to not type.  Big G is actually harder in my opinion (I don't really like capital letters)

Jake should be easy enough to understand and IDPTG is pretty easy as well

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

Also, note, we have two "Mc"s in this game: McGarnacle and mcmcsalot. Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

I explain who it is every game and still I have to do it..uhhh Big G aka gkrieg13 and the name is because Big G is a mod so imporant aka Big and his name starts with G

[Awaclus]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

Also, mcmc or mom salon - mcmcsalot (although I don't think anyone uses mom salon in practice anymore)

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

Also, mcmc or mom salon - mcmcsalot (although I don't think anyone uses mom salon in practice anymore)

Can I call you Awa?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm sure JTBG is scum again. Just like he was last time we played....

And this insane prejudice is why I get lynched D-1 every game.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm sure JTBG is scum again. Just like he was last time we played....

Also I've been town my last 4 games so what are you talking about

[Roadrunner7671]

variety of insulting variations

I didn't realize you were insulted!

[McGarnacle]

variety of insulting variations

I didn't realize you were insulted!

nah, I'm just kidding. I don't mind

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

Find out who the mafia is is definitely the most important.

[Joseph2302]

Ugh...idp, twm, big g...if we could at least use names or words I'll be able to make a character in my head and remember people.

Yeah. I am not loving all the acronyms. I can remember my own, but the others are hard, especially since everyone is newish to me. Maybe just Wine would be better for me?

Here is a list of acronyms I can think of:
TWM or Whine - The_Wine_Merchant
MCG or a variety of insulting variations - McGarnacle
Big G - gkrieg
Jake or JTBG - JakethebaseballGod22
Calm - Calamitas
IDPTG - IDon'tPlayThisGame

I'm usually Joseph, although I also accept J2302.

[Joseph2302]

I'm sure JTBG is scum again. Just like he was last time we played....

Also I've been town my last 4 games so what are you talking about

The only one we played in before. Where everyone spent D1 saying you were scum.
Even though you weren't.

[Joseph2302]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

Vote: Joseph

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm sure JTBG is scum again. Just like he was last time we played....

Also I've been town my last 4 games so what are you talking about

The only one we played in before. Where everyone spent D1 saying you were scum.
Even though you weren't.

That happens to me every single game I play.

[Robz888]

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

Well, doing the former leads to the latter. Your most important task, as a newbie, is to contribute meaningfully.

[faust]

So wasn't that a bunch of useless posts. This is probably the worst:

I think I always type out Calamitas and McGarnacle.

I think TWM is pretty easy to understand.

gkrieg isn't hard to spell or long enough to not type.  Big G is actually harder in my opinion (I don't really like capital letters)

Jake should be easy enough to understand and IDPTG is pretty easy as well

So vote: gkrieg

[Joseph2302]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

Vote: Joseph

Why? The flavours have no impact on the game.

[faust]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

Vote: Joseph

Why? The flavours have no impact on the game.

So that's a pretty good response to your own question.

[Joseph2302]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

Vote: Joseph

Why? The flavours have no impact on the game.

So that's a pretty good response to your own question.

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

[Joseph2302]

I'll start: I'm Sparticus.

[mcmcsalot]

So, shall we do a massclaim of flavour names?

Vote: Joseph

Why? The flavours have no impact on the game.

So that's a pretty good response to your own question.

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

[McGarnacle]

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

[McGarnacle]

vote: Joseph

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I just tried to Vote: Joseph under mcmc's post but the forum wouldn't let me.

I wanted to say I agreed with his logic.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Gah! So many error codes!

[McGarnacle]

Gah! So many error codes!

Yeah, I don't know what's up with quotes.

[Joseph2302]

Gah! So many error codes!

Yeah, I don't know what's up with quotes.

You can't multiquote with more than 5 quotes, otherwise it errors.

[Joseph2302]

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

Why? Gets people talking about the game rather than random stuff?

Vote: McG

[McGarnacle]

Gah! So many error codes!

Yeah, I don't know what's up with quotes.

You can't multiquote with more than 5 quotes, otherwise it errors.

Okay guys, make sure not to really build on each others work so we can keep posting!

[McGarnacle]

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

Why? Gets people talking about the game rather than random stuff?

Vote: McG

I don't really think we were talking about random stuff.

[gkrieg13]

So wasn't that a bunch of useless posts. This is probably the worst:

I think I always type out Calamitas and McGarnacle.

I think TWM is pretty easy to understand.

gkrieg isn't hard to spell or long enough to not type.  Big G is actually harder in my opinion (I don't really like capital letters)

Jake should be easy enough to understand and IDPTG is pretty easy as well

So vote: gkrieg

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

Why? Gets people talking about the game rather than random stuff?

Vote: McG

Aren't all flavor names random as they were randomized, certainly more random than what we were talking about?

  this is all to say, i came up with all of the departments and then randomized which ones get which roles.

[Joseph2302]

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

Why? Gets people talking about the game rather than random stuff?

Vote: McG

Aren't all flavor names random as they were randomized, certainly more random than what we were talking about?

  this is all to say, i came up with all of the departments and then randomized which ones get which roles.

Last game I played we played the entire D1 on an argument on flavour names.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, we don't actually have flavour names....

[Awaclus]

Can I call you Awa?

Sure, that's what most of my online friends usually call me. ^w^ is also acceptable.

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

In your own head, it's more important to find out who the mafia is, but you have to be prepared to explain in a lot of detail the reasons why you are town to other people whereas it's not that important to (and in fact, it can be important not to) explain why you think someone is scum.

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

[faust]

Joseph's flavor claim stuff is bad, but it's not scummy. Important difference.

McGarnacle's jumping on this weaksauce argument while feeling the need to provide an explanation for the vote - that is scummy.

Vote: McGarnacle

[gkrieg13]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

[Awaclus]

Vote: McGarnacle

[faust]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

To get out of RVS! Why is to so hard to get into your heads? RVS is bad. Everyone should do everything in their power to leave it behind. Posting useless stuff instead is strictly anti-town.

[gkrieg13]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

To get out of RVS! Why is to so hard to get into your heads? RVS is bad. Everyone should do everything in their power to leave it behind. Posting useless stuff instead is strictly anti-town.

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

To get out of RVS! Why is to so hard to get into your heads? RVS is bad. Everyone should do everything in their power to leave it behind. Posting useless stuff instead is strictly anti-town.

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

I feel like gkrieg is really defending himself here over something somewhat minor. I mean, the two people he is defending himself against aren't even voting for him.

[Robz888]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

To get out of RVS! Why is to so hard to get into your heads? RVS is bad. Everyone should do everything in their power to leave it behind. Posting useless stuff instead is strictly anti-town.

Agreed.

[Joseph2302]

So why does my second post of the game being useless make me scum?

Why doesn't it?

That is what I'm kind of saying.  It is something I would do as either alignment.  It is clearly in RVS, so why jump on it?

To get out of RVS! Why is to so hard to get into your heads? RVS is bad. Everyone should do everything in their power to leave it behind. Posting useless stuff instead is strictly anti-town.

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

RVS isn't the best, but it's fun for a couple of hours.
Now we're out of it I'll post a reads list:

[Joseph2302]

1. The_Wine_Merchant - seems towny enough for now
2. IDontPlayThisGame - null read
3. Robz888 - null
4. Jakethebaseballgod22 - obvious mislynch, maybe we shouldn't mislynch him D1 again
5. Calamitas - needs to post more
6. Awaclus - null
7. McGarnacle - trying to mislynch me, seems scum to me
8. Joseph2302 - IC
9. mcmcsalot - needs to post more
10. faust - slight town read for encouraging sense
11. Roadrunner7671 - needs to post more. Probably scum.
12. gkrieg13 - null

[Joseph2302]

Vote: McG

[Awaclus]

Now we're out of it I'll post a reads list:

Good reads list.

PPE: 2

[Awaclus]

Oh you have an actual list too. Vote: Joseph

[Joseph2302]

Oh you have an actual list too. Vote: Joseph

Yes, I'm getting out of RVs by posting opinions.

Vote: Awa

[Roadrunner7671]

4. Jakethebaseballgod22 - obvious mislynch

This is the only thing that stuck out to me. Does this mean:
1. Your town read on Jake is sooooo strong you're confident lynching him would be a misylnch?
2. You're scum and know Jake is town, thus knowing he's a mislynch?
3. Regardless of alignment, Jake is easy to lynch and if he's town scum is likely to push him?
4. Something else?

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[Joseph2302]

4. Jakethebaseballgod22 - obvious mislynch

This is the only thing that stuck out to me. Does this mean:
1. Your town read on Jake is sooooo strong you're confident lynching him would be a misylnch?
2. You're scum and know Jake is town, thus knowing he's a mislynch?
3. Regardless of alignment, Jake is easy to lynch and if he's town scum is likely to push him?
4. Something else?

I mean 3.

PPE: 2

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Joseph claim because i'm not unvotting you. I was going to but then you just started posting all these weird posts. Also if over half your reads are null don't post a reads list.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Also I know your scum from your flavor name post. Thanks.

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Also I know your scum from your flavor name post. Thanks.

This isn't like you last game. I actually knew what I was doing

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Joseph claim because i'm not unvotting you. I was going to but then you just started posting all these weird posts. Also if over half your reads are null don't post a reads list.

Maybe I could do nothing like everyone else then?
Vote: JtBG

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

34 minutes.......

[Calamitas]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

34 minutes.......

Why ary you so stressed?

[Robz888]

I would understand Joseph flipping out if he was at L-1 already. That's legitimately worrisome, because accidents happen.

I do not understand why he's flipping out at present.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph you gave yourself away as scum based off what you said your flavor name was and why are you flipping out? I understand some people doing it but from what I've read of you you don't flip out. Even more proof of scum.

[Joseph2302]

1 hr has expired, so claim time

[Joseph2302]

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

So basically, slight scumread on Joseph after this.

[Joseph2302]

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

We wanted action rather than RVs, and something to talk about.
And now we got that.

Anyone who actually thinks I was going to claim is an idiot.

[Joseph2302]

Claiming is not a good move as a Serial Killer like I am.

[Awaclus]

Can't we just lynch Joseph already? That way we could start playing the xkcd game right away.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Can't we just lynch Joseph already? That way we could start playing the xkcd game right away.

The xkcd game?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

Ok just lynch him already

[Robz888]

I've never played with Joseph. Is this par for the course?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Huh?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 1.0

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
McGarnacle (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (1):Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

I'm on L-2 idiots.
If 3 people don't unvote from me within 1 hour, I will be forced to claim.

Joseph claim because i'm not unvotting you. I was going to but then you just started posting all these weird posts. Also if over half your reads are null don't post a reads list.

Second Huh?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

We wanted action rather than RVs, and something to talk about.
And now we got that.

Anyone who actually thinks I was going to claim is an idiot.

We were already out of RVS. Pulling stunts wasn't necessary and further more it isn't necessary to insult those who raised an eyebrow at what you did. If your whole point was to get people out of RVS shouldn't they have some sort of reaction? So did you expect us to not react? Then how would we get out of RVS if we all just ignored it?

[Roadrunner7671]

vote: jake
I don't tend to see eye to eye with Joseph all the time, but his wagon has no merit. Especially since it's Joseph. I mean, come on, this is classic Joseph play! He'd act like this regardless of alignment (I think).

Jake, however, has a bunch of Golds. Which I don't like.

[gkrieg13]

I've never played with Joseph. Is this par for the course?

Very much so. I would give you an example but I'm too lazy right now. He frequently gets mislynched for things like this.

[Roadrunner7671]

And I'm not voting for Jake for an 'easy mislynch,' I'm voting for him because he'll listen to a vote but he won't listen to other stuff. Read any of his games if you want proof of that.

[Robz888]

Vote: Roadrunner

[Joseph2302]

And I'm not voting for Jake for an 'easy mislynch,' I'm voting for him because he'll listen to a vote but he won't listen to other stuff. Read any of his games if you want proof of that.

Double vote: Jak

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Roadrunner

Why?

[Joseph2302]

Can't we just lynch Joseph already? That way we could start playing the xkcd game right away.

Bad reasons.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Roadrunner

Why?

Why not? Are you his scum partner?

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Roadrunner

Why?

Why not? Are you his scum partner?

No. Is he scum?

[faust]

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

I have no idea how mislynches would be caused by getting out of RVS early.

[faust]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Find a game where I did this as scum please?

[faust]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Find a game where I did this as scum please?

I distinctly remember a game where we were scum partners and you contemplated what to do at the start of D1 in the mafia QT (going for claiming SK, I think). I'm too lazy to look it up, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Find a game where I did this as scum please?

I distinctly remember a game where we were scum partners and you contemplated what to do at the start of D1 in the mafia QT (going for claiming SK, I think). I'm too lazy to look it up, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

This game I actually am the SK though

[Awaclus]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Find a game where I did this as scum please?

I distinctly remember a game where we were scum partners and you contemplated what to do at the start of D1 in the mafia QT (going for claiming SK, I think). I'm too lazy to look it up, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

This game I actually am the SK though

Well, then we can just lynch you. And start the xkcd game.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Find a game where I did this as scum please?

I distinctly remember a game where we were scum partners and you contemplated what to do at the start of D1 in the mafia QT (going for claiming SK, I think). I'm too lazy to look it up, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

This game I actually am the SK though

Well, then we can just lynch you. And start the xkcd game.

If you don't want to play this game, then don't

[Awaclus]

If you don't want to play this game, then don't

I want to play this game and I want to play the xkcd game and I want to lynch you in this game because you're scum. Lynching you would accomplish all of those goals, so it would be great.

[Joseph2302]

If you don't want to play this game, then don't

I want to play this game and I want to play the xkcd game and I want to lynch you in this game because I'm scum.

FTFY

[Awaclus]

Man, it's super confusing to change the narrator in between the sentence like that. First it's me talking about myself, but for the last couple of words the perspective changes to you (but I guess that's understandable because that's the part of the text that you wrote yourself).

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Does he also usually ignore the questions that people asked him?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

vote: jake
I don't tend to see eye to eye with Joseph all the time, but his wagon has no merit. Especially since it's Joseph. I mean, come on, this is classic Joseph play! He'd act like this regardless of alignment (I think).

Jake, however, has a bunch of Golds. Which I don't like.

"And I'm not voting for Jake for an 'easy mislynch,' I'm voting for him because he'll listen to a vote but he won't listen to other stuff. Read any of his games if you want proof of that"

That is awful reasoning 1 and two I agree this is like Joseph meta but its just a bit off it hence him being scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

[McGarnacle]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

Yeah, anyone care to fill me in on what's happening right now?

[Joseph2302]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

[Joseph2302]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

Yeah, anyone care to fill me in on what's happening right now?

I'd love to, but even I'm confused.

[Joseph2302]

I think Jake is just confused not scum though, so Unvote: Jak

[gkrieg13]

Ya can people start talking in complete sentences?

I still think this is something Joseph does as town. Nothing on Jake yet for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

Yeah, anyone care to fill me in on what's happening right now?

Me too!

[gkrieg13]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

[Roadrunner7671]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

[gkrieg13]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

Vote: Joseph You are scum. You picked the color yellow as a false flavor name because it is your favorite color. Obvious Scum. Just lynch him already.

[Roadrunner7671]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

Vote: Joseph You are scum. You picked the color yellow as a false flavor name because it is your favorite color. Obvious Scum. Just lynch him already.

Okay, I need to check: Are you joking?

[Robz888]

I feel like we were out of RVS and Jake and Joseph are working hard to put us back there. Is it the case that every game must begin with the obligatory lynching of Jake so that we can get to the business of actual scumhunting?

[mcmcsalot]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

Yeah, anyone care to fill me in on what's happening right now?

Ya can people start talking in complete sentences?

I still think this is something Joseph does as town. Nothing on Jake yet for me.

Yes please to both of these comments. Right now town reads on robz/Faust/gkrieg but seeing as those are just the people I know I think it's pretty safe to say I'm just confused at why everyone is doing what they are doing.

[McGarnacle]

Some things have come up for me again, and unfortunately I need to /out. Mafia at the moment it too big of a time commitment for me, and I will be very busy in the New Year. Again, really sorry this had to happen.

[mcmcsalot]

I feel like we were out of RVS and Jake and Joseph are working hard to put us back there. Is it the case that every game must begin with the obligatory lynching of Jake so that we can get to the business of actual scumhunting?

Right? It does feel like people are being intentionally jokey/short.

[Robz888]

Some things have come up for me again, and unfortunately I need to /out. Mafia at the moment it too big of a time commitment for me, and I will be very busy in the New Year. Again, really sorry this had to happen.

Mods: Ask if TwistedArcher wants to hop back in.

[gkrieg13]

I feel like we were out of RVS and Jake and Joseph are working hard to put us back there. Is it the case that every game must begin with the obligatory lynching of Jake so that we can get to the business of actual scumhunting?

Well usually we only do that because he starts tunnelling someone with weak reasoning.  And he hasn't done that yet...  Oh wait...

But seriously Jake, if you want to get better at mafia, you need to reevaluate your reads more often, and maybe try to speak a little bit clearer.

[gkrieg13]

Is anyone else having a really hard time understanding about half the posts in this thread?

Yeah, anyone care to fill me in on what's happening right now?

Ya can people start talking in complete sentences?

I still think this is something Joseph does as town. Nothing on Jake yet for me.

Yes please to both of these comments. Right now town reads on robz/Faust/gkrieg but seeing as those are just the people I know I think it's pretty safe to say I'm just confused at why everyone is doing what they are doing.

Those are also the 3 people I would say could give you town reads even when they were scum

[Joseph2302]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

Vote: Joseph You are scum. You picked the color yellow as a false flavor name because it is your favorite color. Obvious Scum. Just lynch him already.

Okay, I need to check: Are you joking?

What part of FLAVOUR HAS NO IMPACT ON THIS GAME does Jak not understand?

Also, this would be the dumbest scum flavour claim ever.

[Robz888]

Sigh. Please no more discussion of flavor claiming. From anyone.

[Roadrunner7671]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

Vote: Joseph You are scum. You picked the color yellow as a false flavor name because it is your favorite color. Obvious Scum. Just lynch him already.

Okay, I need to check: Are you joking?

What part of FLAVOUR HAS NO IMPACT ON THIS GAME does Jak not understand?

Also, this would be the dumbest scum flavour claim ever.

Maybe the part where you spell 'flavor' wrong 

[IDontPlayThisGame]

It's a correct spelling. It's spelled differently in American English.

[Joseph2302]

It's a correct spelling. It's spelled differently in American English.

Yes it is. I'm not going to use crap spellings just because some Americans do

[Joseph2302]

Sigh. Please no more discussion of flavor claiming. From anyone.

Agreed. Although I still want Jak to realise why this doesn't make me super scummy.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

At this point I'm reading Joseph as frustrated!town a bit more than scum, but absolutely null on everyone else. Slightly scummy behavior from Jake and RR, but that seems to happen every game so I don't see it as indicative of alignment.

The shortest reads list ever...

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Joseph if you don't anwser this question i'm not taking my vote off you for a long time. What is your favorite color?

Yellow.

But the flavour doesn't matter for the game.

Vote: Joseph You are scum. You picked the color yellow as a false flavor name because it is your favorite color. Obvious Scum. Just lynch him already.

Okay, I need to check: Are you joking?

What part of FLAVOUR HAS NO IMPACT ON THIS GAME does Jak not understand?

Also, this would be the dumbest scum flavour claim ever.

Why are you reacting so strongly to this? But not to my serious and what I think are legitimate questions?

[Roadrunner7671]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

I was pointing out that me voting for Jake isn't alignment indicative, but oh well.

[Joseph2302]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

I was pointing out that me voting for Jake isn't alignment indicative, but oh well.

Roa hasn't done anything that scummy this game

[LaLight]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

Agian? Nice Welcome EFHW

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I will back off Joseph for now but i'm telling you he's scum also town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa and of course Joseph

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

I was pointing out that me voting for Jake isn't alignment indicative, but oh well.

Then why do it even though we were out of RVS

[EFHW]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

Agian? Nice Welcome EFHW

Yep, I'm McEFHW again.  Catching up now.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

Agian? Nice Welcome EFHW

Yep, I'm McEFHW again.  Catching up now.

I can do it for you so far we have talked about RVS, Joseph doing his weird and potentiality scary threatening again and some crap talk about flavor.

[Joseph2302]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

Agian? Nice Welcome EFHW

Yep, I'm McEFHW again.  Catching up now.

Welcome. Vote:EFH

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What with the New Year arriving, there's a good chance I won't be able to post much (or at all, not sure) until tomorrow.

[EFHW]

Well, all I can think of are RVS votes.  There's been a lot of fluff going on. Also some scum-hunting, but the preponderance of fluff means I don't have any reads yet. (I prefer subbing in Day 2 or later so I get to skip Day 1). I don't want to vote the people who are scumhunting: faust, TWM, Awaclus.

[EFHW]

Joseph's flavor claim stuff is bad, but it's not scummy. Important difference.

McGarnacle's jumping on this weaksauce argument while feeling the need to provide an explanation for the vote - that is scummy.

Vote: McGarnacle

Can you show me where this was?  I see him/me giving an opinion ("highly irregular") and voting next post.  Is that what you mean?

[gkrieg13]

I will back off Joseph for now but i'm telling you he's scum also town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa and of course Joseph

Why a scum read from me?

[EFHW]

Here is the sequence of posts:

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

vote: Joseph

Why not vote mcmc?  He also explained his vote.

[Joseph2302]

Why are you reacting so strongly to this? But not to my serious and what I think are legitimate questions?

What questions?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Was about to come and post that joseph was deliberately ignoring me. Glad I don't have to do that.

Why are you reacting so strongly to this? But not to my serious and what I think are legitimate questions?

What questions?

But thanks for asking, I am happy to clarify and point them out.

I asked this question a while back

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

We wanted action rather than RVs, and something to talk about.
And now we got that.

Anyone who actually thinks I was going to claim is an idiot.

We were already out of RVS. Pulling stunts wasn't necessary and further more it isn't necessary to insult those who raised an eyebrow at what you did. If your whole point was to get people out of RVS shouldn't they have some sort of reaction? So did you expect us to not react? Then how would we get out of RVS if we all just ignored it?

And the referenced it here in hopes you would be prompted to answer here

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Does he also usually ignore the questions that people asked him?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I will back off Joseph for now but i'm telling you he's scum also town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa and of course Joseph

Why a scum read from me?

Same question. Looks more like you pulled reads from a random number generator.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Here is the sequence of posts:

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

vote: Joseph

Why not vote mcmc?  He also explained his vote.

In fairness I also voted immediately after mcmc's post and vote.

I just tried to Vote: Joseph under mcmc's post but the forum wouldn't let me.

I wanted to say I agreed with his logic.

[Awaclus]

It's a correct spelling. It's spelled differently in American English.

Yes it is. I'm not going to use better spellings just because the rest of the world does

FTFY

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I will back off Joseph for now but i'm telling you he's scum also town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa and of course Joseph

Why a scum read from me?

Just a gut feeling. Won't lynch you until I have more info or ammo.

[Joseph2302]

It's a correct spelling. It's spelled differently in American English.

Yes it is. I'm not going to use better spellings just because the rest of the world does

FTFY

Vote: Awa

[Joseph2302]

Was about to come and post that joseph was deliberately ignoring me. Glad I don't have to do that.

Why are you reacting so strongly to this? But not to my serious and what I think are legitimate questions?

What questions?

But thanks for asking, I am happy to clarify and point them out.

I asked this question a while back

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

We wanted action rather than RVs, and something to talk about.
And now we got that.

Anyone who actually thinks I was going to claim is an idiot.

We were already out of RVS. Pulling stunts wasn't necessary and further more it isn't necessary to insult those who raised an eyebrow at what you did. If your whole point was to get people out of RVS shouldn't they have some sort of reaction? So did you expect us to not react? Then how would we get out of RVS if we all just ignored it?

And the referenced it here in hopes you would be prompted to answer here

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

Does he also usually ignore the questions that people asked him?

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

I feel like you are saying that you wanted things to happen (people reacting to your posts about claiming), but were disappointed when things did happened (people saying you shouldn't claim and voting you for it) because you thought no one should have done the things they did (say you shouldn't claim and vote you for it). But if you didn't want reactions why did you do what you did?

Or am I just completely missing what you are saying? I am trying to understand. But I feel like I understand about 25% of what you post.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

I feel like you are saying that you wanted things to happen (people reacting to your posts about claiming), but were disappointed when things did happened (people saying you shouldn't claim and voting you for it) because you thought no one should have done the things they did (say you shouldn't claim and vote you for it). But if you didn't want reactions why did you do what you did?

Or am I just completely missing what you are saying? I am trying to understand. But I feel like I understand about 25% of what you post.

Joseph just like's controversy but this is just a little different than what he usually does which is one of my reasons for voting.

[Joseph2302]

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

I feel like you are saying that you wanted things to happen (people reacting to your posts about claiming), but were disappointed when things did happened (people saying you shouldn't claim and voting you for it) because you thought no one should have done the things they did (say you shouldn't claim and vote you for it). But if you didn't want reactions why did you do what you did?

Or am I just completely missing what you are saying? I am trying to understand. But I feel like I understand about 25% of what you post.

Sounds about right. I wanted reactions, but got too many negative reactions.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

I feel like you are saying that you wanted things to happen (people reacting to your posts about claiming), but were disappointed when things did happened (people saying you shouldn't claim and voting you for it) because you thought no one should have done the things they did (say you shouldn't claim and vote you for it). But if you didn't want reactions why did you do what you did?

Or am I just completely missing what you are saying? I am trying to understand. But I feel like I understand about 25% of what you post.

Sounds about right. I wanted reactions, but got too many negative reactions.

So...you wanted reactions supporting you claiming early in D1 at L-2. And you're saying people should know that you were never serious. Is this correct?

[Roadrunner7671]

town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa

What are these based on?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well we were out of RVS, but not much was actually happening. I made some things happen.
And any experienced player would now that claiming within a few hours of the game starting is so wrong, so it should obviously be seen as a stunt.
A stunt to get reactions.
And we got some reactions. No reactions would have been bad, but I expected lots of reactions.

I feel like you are saying that you wanted things to happen (people reacting to your posts about claiming), but were disappointed when things did happened (people saying you shouldn't claim and voting you for it) because you thought no one should have done the things they did (say you shouldn't claim and vote you for it). But if you didn't want reactions why did you do what you did?

Or am I just completely missing what you are saying? I am trying to understand. But I feel like I understand about 25% of what you post.

Sounds about right. I wanted reactions, but got too many negative reactions.

And have you assessed those reactions? What did you learn? Who reacted in a way mafia would? Who reacted like town? I haven't seen you do any assessment, so what was the point? That makes me think you didn't have an original point and you are making up an explanation as you go.

Vote: Jospeh

[gkrieg13]

town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa

What are these based on?

I think his scum reads are slightly based on getting scum reads from other people.

[Joseph2302]

2am here, will reply to these good questions later today.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa

What are these based on?

I think his scum reads are slightly based on getting scum reads from other people.

Ok i'll explain TWM is acting more newbie than he says he is. Awa has not done much that would point to him being town. Big G is just rubbing me the wrong way.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa

What are these based on?

I think his scum reads are slightly based on getting scum reads from other people.

Ok i'll explain TWM is acting more newbie than he says he is. Awa has not done much that would point to him being town. Big G is just rubbing me the wrong way.

That is a poor explanation, at least for me. As I don't understand what you mean by it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

town reads IDP, Robz and Mcmc
Scum reads from Big G, TWM, and Awa

What are these based on?

I think his scum reads are slightly based on getting scum reads from other people.

Ok i'll explain TWM is acting more newbie than he says he is. Awa has not done much that would point to him being town. Big G is just rubbing me the wrong way.

That is a poor explanation, at least for me. As I don't understand what you mean by it.

And really the other two explanations are just generic statements as well.

[faust]

Joseph's flavor claim stuff is bad, but it's not scummy. Important difference.

McGarnacle's jumping on this weaksauce argument while feeling the need to provide an explanation for the vote - that is scummy.

Vote: McGarnacle

Can you show me where this was?  I see him/me giving an opinion ("highly irregular") and voting next post.  Is that what you mean?

Yes.

[faust]

Here is the sequence of posts:

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

vote: Joseph

Why not vote mcmc?  He also explained his vote.

Because mcmc made the argument originally (which is still a bad argument), while McGarn's post is just jumpy and his reasoning sounds forced.

[faust]

And have you assessed those reactions? What did you learn? Who reacted in a way mafia would? Who reacted like town? I haven't seen you do any assessment, so what was the point? That makes me think you didn't have an original point and you are making up an explanation as you go.

Vote: Jospeh

You think scum!Joseph just did this thing for no reason at all?

[faust]

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Here is the sequence of posts:

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

vote: Joseph

Why not vote mcmc?  He also explained his vote.

Because mcmc made the argument originally (which is still a bad argument), while McGarn's post is just jumpy and his reasoning sounds forced.

Jumpy and forced?

Agreed. This seems like a highly irregular thing to suggest doing on D1.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And have you assessed those reactions? What did you learn? Who reacted in a way mafia would? Who reacted like town? I haven't seen you do any assessment, so what was the point? That makes me think you didn't have an original point and you are making up an explanation as you go.

Vote: Jospeh

You think scum!Joseph just did this thing for no reason at all?

If Joseph if mafia, then I am sure he had a reason as I think everything a mafia does would be for some particular reason, but I don't know exactly what that might be.

On the flip side, I don't think Joseph as town does this for no reason and then makes up explanations to justify it afterward.

[Calamitas]

Will catch up today

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.2017

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Robz888 (1): faust
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Roadrunner7671

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

unvote. I should have realized McG had a vote going.

[EFHW]

I don't think WW is playing!

[EFHW]

or Lalight

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't think WW is playing!

I guess that means that gk and idontplay both haven't actually voted yet this game. Does that mean anything?

[schadd]

gah!


Vote Count 1.1.

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (4): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Roadrunner7671

Not Voting (4): Calamitas, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[Joseph2302]

gah!


Vote Count 1.1.

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Roadrunner7671

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Any reason why my name is in italics?

[schadd]

gah!


Vote Count 1.1.

Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5): Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Roadrunner7671

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Any reason why my name is in italics?

whoops, that is an artifact of the way that i proofread vote counts. i edited both of them

[Joseph2302]

So anyway, a response to Wine's questions:

I didn't really have a plan for all the claiming stuff, it sort of just happened, and I wanted to see what happened if people thought I might claim.

Things I've got out of it:
Dunno why Jake thinks I was actually going to claim, or thinks I'm so scummy. And flavour doesn't matter, which he doesn't seem to have grasped yet. Plus he kind of dragged the discussion out longer, but Jake seems to like the RVs element.
IDPTG thinks this whole things was "iffy", which seems like a sensible response. It was a build up to nothing after all.
Awaclus wants to lynch me & get on with another game, which seems weird. Play the game you're in, not the one in the future. Not an alignment tell from that though.
Robz is confused & fed-up with this claim discussion, which seems mildly towny.
Wine seems like newb!town who's just very confused by me. Scum!newbie probably stays quiet, whereas lots of questions suggests town!newbie.
RR voted Jake, which seems like an easy mislynch. Slight scum read.
faust thinks I wouldn't be stupid enough to do this as scum. He's 100% right, but that doesn't mean he's town. Reserving judgement for now after NM9.

PPE: 1

[Robz888]

I think EFHW invited Joseph, so that vote count is off. I personally intend to vote for Joseph, but will wait.

[schadd]

I think EFHW invited Joseph, so that vote count is off. I personally intend to vote for Joseph, but will wait.

you guys and your issues with vote counts, pfff
(edited)

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote

[Joseph2302]

Unvote

Vote:7671

Request: Vote Count

[Joseph2302]

Unvote

Vote:7671

Request: Vote Count

Vote: 7671 for correct syntax

[Joseph2302]

Also, who do other people think is scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote

Vote:7671

Request: Vote Count

Vote: 7671 for correct syntax

I'm curious to see if this works. I'm also curious to see why you're voting for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. Robz888 (asterisk)
4. Jakethebaseballgod22
5. Calamitas
6. Awaclus
9. mcmcsalot
10. faust
12. gkrieg13

My lynch pool for today. Not because any of these people are scummy, but because the people I took out are towny.

[Robz888]

I think EFHW invited Joseph, so that vote count is off. I personally intend to vote for Joseph, but will wait.

you guys and your issues with vote counts, pfff
(edited)

Thanks. It's still wrong, because now Joseph only has 4 votes on him, not 5.

Vote: Joseph

[Robz888]

And everyone is scummy. Joseph, Roadrunner, faust, EFHW. Everyone.

[Robz888]

Not scummy: Calamitas and mcmcsalot. I understand lurking. Nothing of value or substance has been said for the last however many pages.

[Joseph2302]

Not scummy: Calamitas and mcmcsalot. I understand lurking. Nothing of value or substance has been said for the last however many pages.

Lurking is bad.
Vote: 888

[Robz888]

Not scummy: Calamitas and mcmcsalot. I understand lurking. Nothing of value or substance has been said for the last however many pages.

Lurking is bad.
Vote: 888

It is bad, but it's understandable in this case.

Also bad: casting ambiguous votes.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also bad: casting ambiguous votes.

Agreed. I don't feel strongly about most of the nicknames being used, but I think we're getting into dangerous territory if we start using numbers at the end of a person's name to vote for them.

I'll be back some time later today.

[faust]

And everyone is scummy. Joseph, Roadrunner, faust, EFHW. Everyone.

I'm part of a secret society called "everyone" that consists of 4 people!

[Robz888]

And everyone is scummy. Joseph, Roadrunner, faust, EFHW. Everyone.

I'm part of a secret society called "everyone" that consists of 4 people!

I couldn't remember who else was in the game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And everyone is scummy. Joseph, Roadrunner, faust, EFHW. Everyone.

I'm part of a secret society called "everyone" that consists of 4 people!

I couldn't remember who else was in the game.

I don't think that is our problem (maybe a few are an exception) but more your problem. I would say most of the players have been around more than you at this point.

[Calamitas]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

[Awaclus]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

This. He hasn't even given any reads based off his attempts of forced reactions. He said he did it with a purpose, but he never did anything with the information he apparently sought out.

I imagine there are plenty of reasons why he might have done something like this as mafia. But I don't know if I could speculate as to what they might be.

[Calamitas]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

The thing is that town plays usually way less careful and way less calculated than scum does.

[Joseph2302]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

This. He hasn't even given any reads based off his attempts of forced reactions. He said he did it with a purpose, but he never did anything with the information he apparently sought out.

I imagine there are plenty of reasons why he might have done something like this as mafia. But I don't know if I could speculate as to what they might be.

I gave reads after it in reply #262

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I gave reads after it in reply #262

Ha. Yes you did. Sorry, I somehow only saw the top line from that post. I think my point still has a little bit of merit since the reads were only given after I specifically asked for them.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

The thing is that town plays usually way less careful and way less calculated than scum does.

Joseph always plays careless so its non alignment indicative.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

The thing is that town plays usually way less careful and way less calculated than scum does.

Joseph always plays careless so its non alignment indicative.

That's not so nice 

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I think Josephs play is quite towny actually. I really don't think he would have done that as scum (sure it could be WIFOM but it would be very very bold to do so).
Where do you (meaning the people voting him) see a scum narrative for his actions?

Where do you see a town narrative for his actions?

The thing is that town plays usually way less careful and way less calculated than scum does.

Joseph always plays careless so its non alignment indicative.

That's not so nice 

why?

[gkrieg13]

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

The stunts that you say don't indicate he is scum?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

The stunts that you say don't indicate he is scum?

I said he does it all the time and by that it should be NAI but theses ones I said were a little different hence my vote.

[EFHW]

I think this is town!Joseph. Remember that time he did weird stuff in a neighborhood, and got mislynched? I agree with faust that this was too involved to be a scum!plot.

[EFHW]

Unvote

Was this unvote because Joseph gave you scum points for voting Jake?

[EFHW]

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

The stunts that you say don't indicate he is scum?

gkrieg, who do you think is scummy?

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote

Was this unvote because Joseph gave you scum points for voting Jake?

No, Joseph will give me scum points for breathing. This was because Jake seemed to have lost his tunneling mindset and I don't particularly want to lynch jake D1

[gkrieg13]

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

The stunts that you say don't indicate he is scum?

gkrieg, who do you think is scummy?

Don't know yet. Haven't been paying enough attention honestly.

[Joseph2302]

I think this is town!Joseph. Remember that time he did weird stuff in a neighborhood, and got mislynched? I agree with faust that this was too involved to be a scum!plot.

I remember that game now. Hydrad and I were in a neighbourhood, and he claimed traitor so I claimed scum. We were both town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I have counted multiple veterans read Joseph as a strong town (RR, gkrieg, IDPTG, EFHW, faust, Calamitas). And while I don't understand that or agree with them it does encompass half of the players in the game and certainly includes a significant number of town players.

So while I disagree, I suppose I need to concede both that we aren't going to be able to get a lynch on him without movement from that group (unlikely, I think given they were all fairly adamant about their town read on him) and that I might just be reading Joseph wrong given that I haven't played with him before.

unvote

I still think his actions look like something that mafia might do and if those above change their minds I would likely go back to voting him. Further, if I am wrong and Joseph is town I would encourage him to avoid doing such things to make a significant number of people think you are mafia in the future.

[Robz888]

I have counted multiple veterans read Joseph as a strong town (RR, gkrieg, IDPTG, EFHW, faust, Calamitas). And while I don't understand that or agree with them it does encompass half of the players in the game and certainly includes a significant number of town players.

So while I disagree, I suppose I need to concede both that we aren't going to be able to get a lynch on him without movement from that group (unlikely, I think given they were all fairly adamant about their town read on him) and that I might just be reading Joseph wrong given that I haven't played with him before.

unvote

I still think his actions look like something that mafia might do and if those above change their minds I would likely go back to voting him. Further, if I am wrong and Joseph is town I would encourage him to avoid doing such things to make a significant number of people think you are mafia in the future.

I've never played with Joseph, and it could be that he acts crazy independent of alignment. It still seemed forced, to me.

[gkrieg13]

The towniest I have ever seen Joseph act was in duel mafia, where he was scum.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph just seems a little off on his stunts this game. I feel like he as scum would do a stunt like this knowing theirs a chance that people would view it as bad town play therefore making him much less likely to lynch. I also think that at least 1 of the vets pushing a no lynch is scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

1 of the vets pushing a no lynch

Um...

[faust]

Joseph just seems a little off on his stunts this game. I feel like he as scum would do a stunt like this knowing theirs a chance that people would view it as bad town play therefore making him much less likely to lynch. I also think that at least 1 of the vets pushing a no lynch is scum.

Someone is pushing a no lynch?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I have counted multiple veterans read Joseph as a strong town (RR, gkrieg, IDPTG, EFHW, faust, Calamitas). And while I don't understand that or agree with them it does encompass half of the players in the game and certainly includes a significant number of town players.

So while I disagree, I suppose I need to concede both that we aren't going to be able to get a lynch on him without movement from that group (unlikely, I think given they were all fairly adamant about their town read on him) and that I might just be reading Joseph wrong given that I haven't played with him before.

unvote

I still think his actions look like something that mafia might do and if those above change their minds I would likely go back to voting him. Further, if I am wrong and Joseph is town I would encourage him to avoid doing such things to make a significant number of people think you are mafia in the future.

I've never played with Joseph, and it could be that he acts crazy independent of alignment. It still seemed forced, to me.

I agree. But there is a large enough majority of players that going down that road seems to be an exercise in futility. I didn't even include Joseph in that grouping and he obviously won't vote for himself. So unless something from them changes I think we need to look elsewhere. I just don't really know where, nothing else really jumped out to me thus far except for that.

[Robz888]

Joseph just seems a little off on his stunts this game. I feel like he as scum would do a stunt like this knowing theirs a chance that people would view it as bad town play therefore making him much less likely to lynch. I also think that at least 1 of the vets pushing a no lynch is scum.

No one is pushing No Lynch. We still have lots of time.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph just seems a little off on his stunts this game. I feel like he as scum would do a stunt like this knowing theirs a chance that people would view it as bad town play therefore making him much less likely to lynch. I also think that at least 1 of the vets pushing a no lynch is scum.

No one is pushing No Lynch. We still have lots of time.

We have ages til the deadline. And everyone knows mislynch is bad.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.2

Joseph2302 (4): Awaclus, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888
Robz888 (2): faust, Joseph2302

Not Voting (6): Calamitas, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph just seems a little off on his stunts this game. I feel like he as scum would do a stunt like this knowing theirs a chance that people would view it as bad town play therefore making him much less likely to lynch. I also think that at least 1 of the vets pushing a no lynch is scum.

No one is pushing No Lynch. We still have lots of time.

We have ages til the deadline. And everyone knows mislynch is bad.

Meant no lynch here.
Mislynch is also bad though.

[Awaclus]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

[Joseph2302]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

[gkrieg13]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

Not really true. But anyway

[Robz888]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

Again, I have to imagine this manner of voting is frustrating to the mod. It's incredibly confusing to me.

[schadd]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

Again, I have to imagine this manner of voting is frustrating to the mod. It's incredibly confusing to me.

i'm fine with it; i added a do-at-your-own-risk clause to the rules

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

You are just being annoying. Many individuals have asked you repeatedly to stop. Can you please recognize that your actions are frustrating to others trying to play this game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: joseph

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

[faust]

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

[Robz888]

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

I think so too.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

[Robz888]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

Why do you doubt it?

[Joseph2302]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

If you hammer me, then based on how much everyone else has posted this game, this game will just turn into a game of lurkers, like so many other games on here.

[Joseph2302]

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

Again, I have to imagine this manner of voting is frustrating to the mod. It's incredibly confusing to me.

i'm fine with it; i added a do-at-your-own-risk clause to the rules

If it's fine, then what's the problem?
Other people are allowed to use stupid nicknames, so why not me?

[Robz888]

It's time for your claim, Joseph.

[Awaclus]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

If you hammer me, then based on how much everyone else has posted this game, this game will just turn into a game of lurkers, like so many other games on here.

Someone hammer him. If he was town, he wouldn't have to threaten us like this, he could legitimately defend himself instead.

[faust]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

If you hammer me, then based on how much everyone else has posted this game, this game will just turn into a game of lurkers, like so many other games on here.

Better a game of lurkers than a game of fluffy nonsense.

[Joseph2302]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

If you hammer me, then based on how much everyone else has posted this game, this game will just turn into a game of lurkers, like so many other games on here.

Someone hammer him. If he was town, he wouldn't have to threaten us like this, he could legitimately defend himself instead.

I'm SK

[Joseph2302]

Jokes, I'm UB

[faust]

*sigh*

Is this serious?

[Robz888]

Unvote

And shame on you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

If it's fine, then what's the problem?
Other people are allowed to use stupid nicknames, so why not me?

Don't be petulant.

[gkrieg13]

vote: faust

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

If you hammer me, then based on how much everyone else has posted this game, this game will just turn into a game of lurkers, like so many other games on here.

Better a game of lurkers than a game of fluffy nonsense.

And I see relatively few lurkers. There is some good participation going on. Don't try to push the status of this game onto others. Its lack of usefullness is mostly attributed to you.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Jokes, I'm UB

Do we believe this? I'm not sure I do

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jokes, I'm UB

Oh brother.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jokes, I'm UB

Do we believe this? I'm not sure I do

Don't we have to without a counter claim from another player claiming UB or a mason pair (potentially)? Not sure if either should at this point, I am still trying to get a grasp of game theory.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Jokes, I'm UB

Do we believe this? I'm not sure I do

And I forgot how the set-up works. I stand by my point, but less so.

[Roadrunner7671]

Jokes, I'm UB

Do we believe this? I'm not sure I do

Don't we have to without a counter claim from another player claiming UB or a mason pair (potentially)? Not sure if either should at this point, I am still trying to get a grasp of game theory.

Yep.

[Awaclus]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

Why do you doubt it?

Because it's early in the day and these wagons rarely get a lynch.

Also because Joseph claimed UB, but the above part is why I made my original post.
PPE

[Roadrunner7671]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

Well I don't think I have ever been sure. It isn't possible to be sure right now, isn't that the whole point of the game?

[Robz888]

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

[IDontPlayThisGame]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

I know I brought that up, but that's mainly because I forgot how this game and set-up work. I agree with RR; the UB is nearly guaranteed to be in the game whereas other PRs might not be.

@TWM- Arguably there's a point where we know something is 100% true, but I think "sure" in this case means "reasonably sure". Also, were you calling me a veteran in a post a while back? I've played two games...

PPE: 2

[Roadrunner7671]

I've played two games

But you're good!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also, were you calling me a veteran in a post a while back? I've played two games...

Oh, I thought you had played more as you were referencing what looked like multiple games played with Joseph. At this point everyone is more of a vet than me.

[Joseph2302]

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

Possibly the most sensible post in this entire game

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Jake, now that Joseph has claimed UB, has your opinion of his "stunts" changed?

[Awaclus]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

[Joseph2302]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

Much safer to just claim VT, or a PR and hope that not enough people have that role.

[Awaclus]

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

Much safer to just claim VT, or a PR and hope that not enough people have that role.

Yeah but then you wouldn't be able to out PRs.

[Awaclus]

Why are you even arguing this point if you really are the UB? It's not like you're going to get lynched if there's no counterclaim.

[Robz888]

Awaclus, are you keeping your vote on Joseph?

[Awaclus]

What does it look like?

[Robz888]

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

[Joseph2302]

Why are you even arguing this point if you really are the UB? It's not like you're going to get lynched if there's no counterclaim.

Because why do you think I'm lying?

Either:
(1). You're wrong, because I'm telling the truth
(2). You're scum looking for an easy mislynch

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

OMG Joseph is lying I have no idea how no one has pointed this out so far!!!! The UB is the most perfect role for a scum to claim because if you claim another Pr then you have to say what you do overnight but the Ub as long as no PR dies is just a VT so no one can can counter anything he says. I also think the actual Ub is smart enough to know that if he/she/they counterclaims he/she/they is dead therefore he or she  or they didn't claim. I say let's lynch Joseph and if he is the Ub then that's bad town play. Also TWM people on here don't trust Pr claims.

[Roadrunner7671]

Joseph may be scum. HOWEVER, if he is scum and he claimed a UB, that isn't a claim to survive, it's a claim to die and out a PR with your death.

This means that if Joseph is trying to survive, a UB claim is the absolute WORST claim for him to make.

However, if Joseph is trying to out a PR, a UB claim is the absolute BEST claim for him to make (because there's a very, very good chance there is a UB in the setup).

Which brings us to this: Has scum!Joseph resigned himself to a death, and he's just trying to get as much as he can out of that death?

I think the answer to that question is 'no.' Hence me not voting Joseph.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph may be scum. HOWEVER, if he is scum and he claimed a UB, that isn't a claim to survive, it's a claim to die and out a PR with your death.

This means that if Joseph is trying to survive, a UB claim is the absolute WORST claim for him to make.

However, if Joseph is trying to out a PR, a UB claim is the absolute BEST claim for him to make (because there's a very, very good chance there is a UB in the setup).

Which brings us to this: Has scum!Joseph resigned himself to a death, and he's just trying to get as much as he can out of that death?

I think the answer to that question is 'no.' Hence me not voting Joseph.

I would say yes because he's resigned to more stunts and now is done trying to find scum and is accusing people of being scum hence trying to cause chaos on his way out.


[/quote]
Because why do you think I'm lying?

Either:
(1). You're wrong, because I'm telling the truth
(2). You're scum looking for an easy mislynch

[Robz888]

Joseph may be scum. HOWEVER, if he is scum and he claimed a UB, that isn't a claim to survive, it's a claim to die and out a PR with your death.

This means that if Joseph is trying to survive, a UB claim is the absolute WORST claim for him to make.

However, if Joseph is trying to out a PR, a UB claim is the absolute BEST claim for him to make (because there's a very, very good chance there is a UB in the setup).

Which brings us to this: Has scum!Joseph resigned himself to a death, and he's just trying to get as much as he can out of that death?

I think the answer to that question is 'no.' Hence me not voting Joseph.

I think it's also possible he didn't understand why UB was a bad claim.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Joseph may be scum. HOWEVER, if he is scum and he claimed a UB, that isn't a claim to survive, it's a claim to die and out a PR with your death.

This means that if Joseph is trying to survive, a UB claim is the absolute WORST claim for him to make.

However, if Joseph is trying to out a PR, a UB claim is the absolute BEST claim for him to make (because there's a very, very good chance there is a UB in the setup).

Which brings us to this: Has scum!Joseph resigned himself to a death, and he's just trying to get as much as he can out of that death?

I think the answer to that question is 'no.' Hence me not voting Joseph.

I think it's also possible he didn't understand why UB was a bad claim.

He's played a decent amount of game's and he's also not known for not reading/being bad the setup like some players so i don't think so.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

That's L-1, right?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am not sure if I like lynching without a counter claim. Seems high risk. I guess a high risk would be more worthwhile earlier but it still makes me nervous.

If we do have a counter claim what is the worst thing that could happen? We lose the UB? Are we even sure to lose the UB given potentail power roles? That seems like worth trading for an assured correct lynch.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok. Pretty decent chance there is at least a 1-shot strong-man (2/3) vs smallish chance there are two protective roles. So if a counter claim occurs I guess said person wouldn't have a super high likelihood of surviving the night. But so to would Joseph if he is the UB and isn't lynched tonight.

It seems like we are likely losing our UB today or tonight either way?

[Robz888]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

I guess I don't understand that. If you get a lynch Day1 and miss Day2 you would be in the same spot as you would be if you miss Day1 and get a lynch Day2.

Can you explain further? Or is it just that it makes getting a correct lynch Day2 more likely.

Conversely I feel like losing a PR Day1 is nearly as HUUUGE (two less Us) in a negative way.

[Robz888]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

I guess I don't understand that. If you get a lynch Day1 and miss Day2 you would be in the same spot as you would be if you miss Day1 and get a lynch Day2.

Can you explain further? Or is it just that it makes getting a correct lynch Day2 more likely.

Conversely I feel like losing a PR Day1 is nearly as HUUUGE (two less Us) in a negative way.

Well, games that successfully lynched scum Day 1 are waaaaay more likely to result in town victories than other games.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

I guess I don't understand that. If you get a lynch Day1 and miss Day2 you would be in the same spot as you would be if you miss Day1 and get a lynch Day2.

Can you explain further? Or is it just that it makes getting a correct lynch Day2 more likely.

Conversely I feel like losing a PR Day1 is nearly as HUUUGE (two less Us) in a negative way.

Well, games that successfully lynched scum Day 1 are waaaaay more likely to result in town victories than other games.

What about games where a power role is lynched Day1?

[Robz888]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

I guess I don't understand that. If you get a lynch Day1 and miss Day2 you would be in the same spot as you would be if you miss Day1 and get a lynch Day2.

Can you explain further? Or is it just that it makes getting a correct lynch Day2 more likely.

Conversely I feel like losing a PR Day1 is nearly as HUUUGE (two less Us) in a negative way.

Well, games that successfully lynched scum Day 1 are waaaaay more likely to result in town victories than other games.

What about games where a power role is lynched Day1?

Well it's bad, obviously.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I guess you saying HUUUUUGE and waaaaay better just aren't quite enough to convince me think this is the best idea.

[Robz888]

I guess you saying HUUUUUGE and waaaaay better just aren't quite enough to convince me think this is the best idea.

I mean, if I didn't strongly think the real UB was just keeping quiet, I would not support this lynch, no.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so if we lynch Joseph today we have the opportunity to out a scum D-1. I think we should do it and even if we let him live, (and he is town) then he will die tonight so the risk of him being town and it being a mislynch is then not as high.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I guess you saying HUUUUUGE and waaaaay better just aren't quite enough to convince me think this is the best idea.

I mean, if I didn't strongly think the real UB was just keeping quiet, I would not support this lynch, no.

I feel sorta similar.

[gkrieg13]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

[Joseph2302]

I say let's lynch Joseph and if he is the Ub then that's bad town play.

If I am the UB then it's bad town play that I claimed UB? Makes sense.

Ok so if we lynch Joseph today we have the opportunity to out a scum D-1. I think we should do it and even if we let him live, (and he is town) then he will die tonight so the risk of him being town and it being a mislynch is then not as high.

You won't lynch scum D-1, and scum wouldn't kill someone who's such an easy mislynch target.

Why does everything you say always make me want to lynch you more and more?

PPE: 2 + 2

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I guess you saying HUUUUUGE and waaaaay better just aren't quite enough to convince me think this is the best idea.

I mean, if I didn't strongly think the real UB was just keeping quiet, I would not support this lynch, no.

Right we aren't in a theory bubble, we are in the context of the game. I get that. It doesn't feel like there is a perfect or ideal answer, even though it feels like there should be one.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Jake

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

[gkrieg13]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

And what was Robz alignment that game?

[Joseph2302]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

Looks like M89 is the one you were referring to. Robz was scum that game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

This one too. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655426#msg655426, #448

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Then there are other games where scum claim a Pr and become IC's and then win.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I say let's lynch Joseph and if he is the Ub then that's bad town play.

If I am the UB then it's bad town play that I claimed UB? Makes sense.

Ok so if we lynch Joseph today we have the opportunity to out a scum D-1. I think we should do it and even if we let him live, (and he is town) then he will die tonight so the risk of him being town and it being a mislynch is then not as high.

You won't lynch scum D-1, and scum wouldn't kill someone who's such an easy mislynch target.

Why does everything you say always make me want to lynch you more and more?

PPE: 2 + 2

You just proved my point about blaming everyone as scum but why would scum take the chance of killing a unknown rather than killing the one of the strongest Pr's in the game if you are town. Also it's not common to lynch scum D-1 but if it happens it almost guarantee's a town win therefore making the risk worth it.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

Looks like M89 is the one you were referring to. Robz was scum that game.

And M88 where i got lynched as claimed doctor.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.3

Joseph2302 (6): Awaclus, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, faust, The_Wine_Merchant
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
faust (1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (4): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.


quoting games that are finished is allowed.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Jake

You have been yelling at people all game for voting me saying it was a easy mislynch but then you vote me when your backed into a corner trying to find some one else to lynch so you survive... OK

[EFHW]

faust: Why did you vote Robz?

[EFHW]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Same here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

[EFHW]

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

vote: mcmc. He's lurking and the above post is kind of too pro-town, and also incorrect since Joseph started his thing before faust voted gkrieg.

btw, hi mcmc!

[EFHW]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

I didn't change my mind, but my reasoning is that the number of players who would 1. think to hold back a counterclaim and 2. be able to resist the temptation is very small. 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

I didn't change my mind, but my reasoning is that the number of players who would 1. think to hold back a counterclaim and 2. be able to resist the temptation is very small.

Ahhhh. That is a good point. And it looks like a large number of people posted between Joseph's claim and when it was first suggested to hold back the claim and like you said, most would hav emost likely said something quickly, but I don't think we want to speculate too much on what specific individuals might have done.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Can we prod some people because there are a few lurkers?

[Calamitas]

Guys, unvote Joseph. This is just insanely stupid. If he gets counterclaimed we kill him, otherwise we won't. It's that simple.

[Calamitas]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

Let's wait for potential counterclaims and not lynch him otherwise. That algorithm is just better than lynching Joseph outright.
Either we hit scum and lose our UB the night after (case Joseph is lying and gets counterclaim) or we avoid lynching our UB and get a shot at hitting actual scum with our lynch.
The risk of lynching UB!Joseph is too big compared to the minimal drawback of UB!Nightkill versus Random!Nightkill.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

[Calamitas]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

Ehm, that is even worse than lynching him today.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

This seems awful. If we follow your plan (and Joseph is telling the truth) we don't lynch him today, scum NKs someone else, and we mislynch him tomorrow.

[Roadrunner7671]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

No! Think about that for a second.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

[Roadrunner7671]

I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious)

Oh yeah, we've never played before! I play differently, and I used to get lynched a bunch for it because different = scummy. I've grown a bit as a player, but mostly I can get away with weird stuff because I'm RR. Sort of like Joseph, except less extreme.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

I'm always town but seriously for all the people who think my idea is terrible or don't want to lynch Joseph, Then who? Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool. I'll make one for one of my preferred lynch's. Mcmc is total lurker and should be lynched. He hasn't posted in almost 3 days. Come on lurkers shouldn't get a pass.

[Calamitas]

Can someone unvote Joseph please, this L-1 is insanity.

[Robz888]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

Maybe my perspective is warped because my first experience with Jake was in 87, where he acted just as crazy has he's acted in every subsequent game, and he was scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool.

You can do this if you want!

[EFHW]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

Why Robz?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool.

You can do this if you want!

There are cases on my strongest lynch candidates how about you make one Calm if you don't want a Joseph lynch that bad?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

Maybe my perspective is warped because my first experience with Jake was in 87, where he acted just as crazy has he's acted in every subsequent game, and he was scum.

I think I acted crazier that game.

[Roadrunner7671]

Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool.

You can do this if you want!

There are cases on my strongest lynch candidates how about you make one Calm if you don't want a Joseph lynch that bad?

Here's a case: Due to the fact that no one counterclaimed Joseph, he is an IC.

[Calamitas]

Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool.

You can do this if you want!

There are cases on my strongest lynch candidates how about you make one Calm if you don't want a Joseph lynch that bad?

Here's a case: Due to the fact that no one counterclaimed Joseph, he is an IC.

Not IC but pretty pretty close to it, certainly enough to not bot lynch him today!

[Roadrunner7671]

Make some cases on others so we have a actual lynch pool.

You can do this if you want!

There are cases on my strongest lynch candidates how about you make one Calm if you don't want a Joseph lynch that bad?

Here's a case: Due to the fact that no one counterclaimed Joseph, he is an IC.

Not IC but pretty pretty close to it, certainly enough to not bot lynch him today!

Sure, not an IC because of Mason stuff.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

Why Robz?

It was revealed that Robz had pushed for and achieved a lynch on a claimed PR Day1 previously as mafia in M88.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry M89

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

Looks like M89 is the one you were referring to. Robz was scum that game.

[faust]

faust: Why did you vote Robz?

I wanted to vote for someone who is not Joseph, and Robz hadn't been townie.

[faust]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

[faust]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

[Joseph2302]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

This seems awful. If we follow your plan (and Joseph is telling the truth) we don't lynch him today, scum NKs someone else, and we mislynch him tomorrow.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Jake

You have been yelling at people all game for voting me saying it was a easy mislynch but then you vote me when your backed into a corner trying to find some one else to lynch so you survive... OK

You're so insistent on such a bad lynch (wanting to lynch an uncontested PR), that screams scummy to me.

[Awaclus]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

I have been posting actively.

[Calamitas]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I agree, but I still not see a narrative that makes sense for robz. If he is actually a UB he is going to get killed due to his behavior anyways, in that regard it's identical to a claim. If we actually lynch Joseph and he flips town, robz is going to be under heaviest suspicion. Neither scum!robz nor non-mason/UB!robz would want that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

Yeah. That makes sense. I guess my supposition was based on the idea that the players were inactive or lurking for a short period of time and would become active at a later date, especially with much of this game taking place during the western holiday season.

I happen to have been able to be more active because of the holidays, but that is because I was mostly sitting at home in warm pajamas next to a heater alternatively drinking coffee and cider. But sadly , that lurxury is coming to an end.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I'll get behind that. vote: robz

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I agree, but I still not see a narrative that makes sense for robz. If he is actually a UB he is going to get killed due to his behavior anyways, in that regard it's identical to a claim. If we actually lynch Joseph and he flips town, robz is going to be under heaviest suspicion. Neither scum!robz nor non-mason/UB!robz would want that.

Can you re-explain this? I thought I understood what you were getting at, but I got lost toward the end.

[Calamitas]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I agree, but I still not see a narrative that makes sense for robz. If he is actually a UB he is going to get killed due to his behavior anyways, in that regard it's identical to a claim. If we actually lynch Joseph and he flips town, robz is going to be under heaviest suspicion. Neither scum!robz nor non-mason/UB!robz would want that.

Can you re-explain this? I thought I understood what you were getting at, but I got lost toward the end.

Well, I think robz behaviour doesn't make sense in either case.
If robz is the UB his behaviour will draw him the NK probably, so it doesn't do much good in comparison to outright claiming.
if robz is scum and wants to get Joseph lynched to get rid of a PR, he will draw heavy suspicion on himself.
If robz is town (not UB and not mason) he risks getting a PR lynched and heavy suspicion the day after (laying the groundwork for two misslynches) which he cannot want either.

[EFHW]

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I agree, but I still not see a narrative that makes sense for robz. If he is actually a UB he is going to get killed due to his behavior anyways, in that regard it's identical to a claim. If we actually lynch Joseph and he flips town, robz is going to be under heaviest suspicion. Neither scum!robz nor non-mason/UB!robz would want that.

Scum!Robz would expect to be able to talk his way out of being lynched Day 2, since he's done so before.  So I don't think this argument holds in this case.

vote: Robz

[mcmcsalot]

A few pages behind but far enough to have read the claim and unvote sorry for not posting, I promise to catch up and be active before we get super close to deadline, I was hoping this game would start much later than it did.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Robz

Haven't paid attention to vote counts

[Awaclus]

Vote: Robz

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Thanks Calamitas. I understood it correctly then, but it was nice to get a clarification. So in the case of none of them having a great narrative, which one is the most likely?

I think that is 4 voting for Robz: faust, TWM, EFHW, gkrieg

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Make that five.

[Robz888]

Okay. I thought it was pretty clear that Awaclus was secretly soft-claiming UB--that was the purpose of my exchange with him earlier. That's why I kept my vote on Joseph.

Since Awaclus is voting for me, it seems that's not the case.

Vote: Awaclus for the false implication.

[Awaclus]

Okay. I thought it was pretty clear that Awaclus was secretly soft-claiming UB--that was the purpose of my exchange with him earlier. That's why I kept my vote on Joseph.

Since Awaclus is voting for me, it seems that's not the case.

Vote: Awaclus for the false implication.

I thought you were secretly soft-claiming UB! That's why I voted for you because it started to look like it would be better to have you claim after all.

[Robz888]

Read Replies number 342 through 354.

[Robz888]

Okay. I thought it was pretty clear that Awaclus was secretly soft-claiming UB--that was the purpose of my exchange with him earlier. That's why I kept my vote on Joseph.

Since Awaclus is voting for me, it seems that's not the case.

Vote: Awaclus for the false implication.

I thought you were secretly soft-claiming UB! That's why I voted for you because it started to look like it would be better to have you claim after all.

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

[Awaclus]

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

I didn't pay enough attention to keep track of who had already posted after Joseph's claim, I just wanted to keep the possibility open for the real UB to keep quiet in case it was a fakeclaim. Then it looked like you were hopping onto that opportunity so I figured you must be the real UB.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Read Replies number 342 through 354.

This is post 338

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

This is post 342

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

This is post 354

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

[EFHW]

It seemed to me that Robz did think Awaclus was soft-claiming, because he asked if Awaclus was staying on Joseph. The problem is the similarity of his arguments here with his arguments in past games in which he got PRs mislynched.

[EFHW]

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

I didn't pay enough attention to keep track of who had already posted after Joseph's claim, I just wanted to keep the possibility open for the real UB to keep quiet in case it was a fakeclaim. Then it looked like you were hopping onto that opportunity so I figured you must be the real UB.

Robz's unvote and comments right after the claim seemed to me like he was not the UB himself.

I don't like the way he called Awaclus a liar.  Both because it's unfair and because I can read it as towny or scummy.

[EFHW]

Okay. I thought it was pretty clear that Awaclus was secretly soft-claiming UB--that was the purpose of my exchange with him earlier. That's why I kept my vote on Joseph.

Since Awaclus is voting for me, it seems that's not the case.

Vote: Awaclus for the false implication.

I thought you were secretly soft-claiming UB! That's why I voted for you because it started to look like it would be better to have you claim after all.

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

Should or should not?

[Awaclus]

Read Replies number 342 through 354.

This is post 338

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

This is post 342

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

This is post 354

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

Like I said, I wasn't paying attention.

[Awaclus]

Also I didn't read replies number 342 through 354 when Robz told me to read them.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Read Replies number 342 through 354.

This is post 338

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

This is post 342

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

This is post 354

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

Like I said, I wasn't paying attention.

I meant that you had posted your 338 before Robz brought it up in 342. 338 was outside the scope of what Robz was referring to, but was still relevant.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Robz Bye Robz. You are now seeming more and more scummy.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Request Vote Count

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Request Vote Count

Pretty sure that is L-1.

EFHW, faust, TWM, Awaclus, gkrieg, Jake

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

It would be pretty bad form to hammer me before all of the people voting for me had had a chance to see my explanation.

[Robz888]

To further clarify, here was my first post after Joseph's claim.

Unvote

And shame on you.

So I clearly accepted the claim.

Here was Awaclus's first post.

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

He followed it up with:

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

and

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

Much safer to just claim VT, or a PR and hope that not enough people have that role.

Yeah but then you wouldn't be able to out PRs.

Then I said

Awaclus, are you keeping your vote on Joseph?

and he said

What does it look like?

So I revoted. I thought Awaclus was heavily hinting that he was the real UB.

At that point, I was perfectly fine with people thinking I was the real UB, if they did think that, so I could protect Awaclus.

[Calamitas]

Thanks Calamitas. I understood it correctly then, but it was nice to get a clarification. So in the case of none of them having a great narrative, which one is the most likely?

I think that is 4 voting for Robz: faust, TWM, EFHW, gkrieg

The one he outlined just yet

[Roadrunner7671]

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much. Is this scummy? No. But I do think one of those three are scum and EFHW isn't in my lynch pool, so lynching Robz isn't the worst. I'm also going to intend to hammer, but keep in mind that I have no spine.

[Robz888]

I am a Vanilla Townie.

[gkrieg13]

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

[Robz888]

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

Again, take a look at what happened. I unvoted Joseph immediately and accepted his claim until Awaclus said a number of highly suggestive things and confirmed that he would not be moving his vote. I thought there was one way to read that.

[Awaclus]

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much.

You are reading between the lines too little.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So when did the consensus move from looking like Joseph was a possible lynch to becoming not a lynch? I feel like Robz's posts or reaction at that point might be worth looking at.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

From my perspective this is where I feel like the pendulum started going the other direction and momentum away from Joseph started.

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Along with other posts from Calamitas and EFHW.

I had thought people had unvoted at this stage (including myself) but I guess that never occurred. So maybe I was imagining the consensus moving more than it actually did.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And this is Robz's one post between that time and when faust started to vote for him and sent the Robz wagon snowballing (at that point Robz does point at Awaclus, but only after heavy voting). I had thought if the consensus had been more apparent this would have been the time that Robz should have called for Awaclus to claim if he felt that Awaclus was the UB. But he didn't, but I am not sure if that is because Robz didn't feel that way or if because he didn't want to.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

Maybe my perspective is warped because my first experience with Jake was in 87, where he acted just as crazy has he's acted in every subsequent game, and he was scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

Can we please not hammer at least until like 6pm forum time so I can get off work and catch up. We have like 4 days till deadline my gosh people.

Also I thought I already did but unvote

[EFHW]

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

[Robz888]

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

That's fine. I enjoy living dangerously.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I feel like if robz was town he would be looking for scum not targeting one person who is a claimed Pr. Because of robz's reactions I now believe Joseph's claim.

[Robz888]

The lack of unvotes for me is deafening.

[faust]

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

[faust]

The lack of unvotes for me is deafening.

Also, how can a lack of something be deafening?

[Robz888]

It's a joke of sorts. There's an expression "the silence is deafening"

[Joseph2302]

I'm busy for the next 1-2 days, so limited posting/forum mafia time.

I don't want to hammer right now, although I'm not seeing a town!Robz here.
Although I'm not sure I've played with him enough to be sure.

[Robz888]

I'm busy for the next 1-2 days, so limited posting/forum mafia time.

I don't want to hammer right now, although I'm not seeing a town!Robz here.
Although I'm not sure I've played with him enough to be sure.

Can you walk me thru what, exactly, in my explanation, rings false to you?

[Robz888]

People in this game falling into four broad groups:

-- People who are voting for me and have really not thought things through
-- Scum who realize that but are hoping I get mislynched before they have to say anything
-- People who are lurking hardcore
-- People who are Calamitas

[faust]

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

[faust]

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

[Awaclus]

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Gkrieg is definitely a better place to look for scum than me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why gkrieg?

[Awaclus]

Because I'm not scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

Because I'm not scum.

No, I meant that there hadn't seemed to be a case for gkrieg, nor any suspicion on him.

[EFHW]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

[EFHW]

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.

[EFHW]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

So you think he is pretending to not pay attention by pretending to pay attention?

[faust]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.

I think the fact that scum!Robz did this before recently actually makes it less likely that he would do it again here.

[EFHW]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

So you think he is pretending to not pay attention by pretending to pay attention?

!  No.  On two separate occasions - when I asked him who his scumreads were and when he voted for Robz, he stated he wasn't paying attention. I'm thinking that is feigned indifference. The Robz case was, perhaps, an attempt to use the parallel and Robz's past successes as scum to get Robz lynched.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

So you think he is pretending to not pay attention by pretending to pay attention?

!  No.  On two separate occasions - when I asked him who his scumreads were and when he voted for Robz, he stated he wasn't paying attention. I'm thinking that is feigned indifference. The Robz case was, perhaps, an attempt to use the parallel and Robz's past successes as scum to get Robz lynched.

OK. I get what you are saying. I just went through and looked through his posts. I only found one in response to you:

Will lynch most people but want to lynch Joseph because of his poor stunts.

The stunts that you say don't indicate he is scum?

gkrieg, who do you think is scummy?

Don't know yet. Haven't been paying enough attention honestly.

But only found one other and that was talking about the vote count, which is a different thing, I think:

vote: Robz

Haven't paid attention to vote counts

So I am not sure I agree with you. His first not paying attention was fairly early in the day. It was post 290. At that point you hadn't really given any mafia reads yourself (granted you did sub in part way) and took you to about post 390 to vote and give a mafia read yourself. So I think you are overstating your point here as he has been paying attention. The other post was about vote counts, which was reasonable as there were a bunch of Robz votes without a vote count at that time.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

[gkrieg13]

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

No I get your point. I am saying that there is exactly one example of this so-called projection. There aren't multiple, or a bunch. Just one. So I think you are exaggerating something to piggyback off faust's suspicion.

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

No I get your point. I am saying that there is exactly one example of this so-called projection. There aren't multiple, or a bunch. Just one. So I think you are exaggerating something to piggyback off faust's suspicion.

Voting without checking the vote count and stating that you are doing that is actually an unusual thing to do, and a careful player doesn't do that.  More later.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: McEFHW

[Robz888]

Vote: McEFHW

Jake, it seems like you just always think the people other people think are scum are scum.

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

I really wasn't paying enough attention at that point to know who my scum reads are.  But I have done that as both town and as scum.  I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: McEFHW

Jake, it seems like you just always think the people other people think are scum are scum.

Nope I just saw a player who I thought was scum and voted them.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Also EFHW is one of my scum reads. The rest are Big G mcmc(lurking), TWM and robz.

[EFHW]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

[EFHW]

This post by gkrieg came after Robz presented his defense of thinking Awaclus was soft-claiming, which was supported by Robz's previous posts, but gkrieg just sticks to the same theory without acknowledging the new information.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

This post by gkrieg came after Robz presented his defense of thinking Awaclus was soft-claiming, which was supported by Robz's previous posts, but gkrieg just sticks to the same theory without acknowledging the new information.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

He is though which is why I was looking at him as scum although can you explain the QT thing robz?

[faust]

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

It's good that you tell us when you're honest about something. Makes me wonder about all the other times though.

[faust]

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

Why? Didn't you like me fingering Awaclus?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

[EFHW]

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

Why? Didn't you like me fingering Awaclus?

I just don't find him scummy.

[gkrieg13]

This post by gkrieg came after Robz presented his defense of thinking Awaclus was soft-claiming, which was supported by Robz's previous posts, but gkrieg just sticks to the same theory without acknowledging the new information.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.  I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.  It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

[gkrieg13]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

Why is it surprising to you that you are suspicious of Calamitas?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

Why is it surprising to you that you are suspicious of Calamitas?

I thought he had posted more and remembered him giving a townie vibe. But when I actually skimmed over the thread and then looked at him more specifically that townie vibe dissipated. I had thought he had done more.

[Awaclus]

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

Why? Didn't you like me fingering Awaclus?

L-lewd!

[Robz888]

I think I'm still most inclined to lynch Awaclus.

[faust]

I think I'm still most inclined to lynch Awaclus.

Why?

[Calamitas]

I think I'm still most inclined to lynch Awaclus.

Why?

Because of him softclaiming UB in the eyes of robz.

[faust]

I think I'm still most inclined to lynch Awaclus.

Why?

Because of him softclaiming UB in the eyes of robz.

Could you let RObz answer questions directed to him? Thanks.

[Robz888]

What Calamitas said.

I'm not super committed to it, though.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.5

JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (1): Robz888
EFHW (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (1): EFHW

Not Voting (5): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671, faust, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

[EFHW]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

I'm open to a Calamitas lynch, or mcmc. I think we generally want to let RR and Jake live to Day 2 because they always are getting mislynched Day 1. The pass is both for their sakes and because it has become considered scummy to vote for them Day 1.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

We need a sub in M91. Pm me or schadd if you're interested please.

Who is getting replaced?

[Calamitas]

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

I'm open to a Calamitas lynch, or mcmc. I think we generally want to let RR and Jake live to Day 2 because they always are getting mislynched Day 1. The pass is both for their sakes and because it has become considered scummy to vote for them Day 1.

Are you scumreading me or townreading everyone else?

[Calamitas]

We need a sub in M91. Pm me or schadd if you're interested please.

Who is getting replaced?

I would guess idon, he hasn't poated for quite a while now.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

My 3 are Robz,Big G and McEFHW.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

We need a sub in M91. Pm me or schadd if you're interested please.

Who is getting replaced?

I would guess idon, he hasn't poated for quite a while now.

I haven't posted because I've been following the Robz/Joseph wagon and haven't been sure what to add. I found myself thinking of arguments defending players who I hadn't confirmed as town and I figured it wasn't helpful to post those, i.e. Calamitas answering for Robz. However, I am the one getting replaced. I forgot I'll be without access to the internet for quite a while soon. I'm sorry I screwed up the game in that regard. Hopefully a replacement can be found soon with a (more or less) seamless transition.

[faust]

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

[faust]

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

[Roadrunner7671]

My 3 are Robz,Big G and McEFHW.

EFHW? The other two seem okay, but EFHW just seems randomly thrown in there.

I'm not sure who my three would be, if we were to actually do this.

[Awaclus]

Not a lot of people stand out in this game, so let's just say Robz, gkrieg and Jake.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

[mcmcsalot]

Caught up and vote: jake I think robz made a good point that he pretty much only finds people scummy after other people find them scummy. Jake also pushed the robz wagon after it was explained that robz thought Awc was soft claiming.* Laslty while I agree that getting us to narrow the lynch pool as we approach deadline is a good thing I actually think the whole "let's post our 3 would lynch candidates" is really scummy. Think about it scum wants desperately to find out all the options town is willing to lynch and doesn't really care what the case is on those people. The best way to find that out is getting everyone's short list.


*about the robz wagon, I had the benefit of having seen the more recent pages and therefor robz explaination before going back and reading how it actually happened so my view is obviously tainted but I would have 100% been pushing to lynch Joseph after seeing awcs post, and I completely believe that is what robz thought. The fact that he believed the claim instantly then flipped right after awcs post seems pretty obvious to me.

[Robz888]

Awaclus, IDP for lurking, and I guess gkrieg, mostly because I'm getting townie vibes from faust

[Robz888]

Caught up and vote: jake I think robz made a good point that he pretty much only finds people scummy after other people find them scummy. Jake also pushed the robz wagon after it was explained that robz thought Awc was soft claiming.* Laslty while I agree that getting us to narrow the lynch pool as we approach deadline is a good thing I actually think the whole "let's post our 3 would lynch candidates" is really scummy. Think about it scum wants desperately to find out all the options town is willing to lynch and doesn't really care what the case is on those people. The best way to find that out is getting everyone's short list.


*about the robz wagon, I had the benefit of having seen the more recent pages and therefor robz explaination before going back and reading how it actually happened so my view is obviously tainted but I would have 100% been pushing to lynch Joseph after seeing awcs post, and I completely believe that is what robz thought. The fact that he believed the claim instantly then flipped right after awcs post seems pretty obvious to me.

Mcmc, the problem is--and you know I almost never say this and kind of hate this argument--jake absolutely does this stuff as town or scum.

[mcmcsalot]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

Also this is bad bad bad, I guess not really alignment indicative but a super silly thought process which I often atribute to scum forcing themselves to comment on things.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Robz Bye Robz. You are now seeming more and more scummy.

Btw, this is the vote for robz which comes after it was cleared up what went down.

Also Town read on EFHW whose posts I think have all been very pro town and around the same time as jake was pushing robz up until the explaination and then unvoted and confirmed that yes robz was pushing Joseph because it looked like awc soft-claimed.

[Joseph2302]

Trying to get my head round the last couple of days:

So after I claimed UB, the next wagon was Robz. He got to L-1.
Robz believed that Awaclus was softclaiming UB (#452), and claimed VT (#455).

Jake didn't like that Robz was voting for a claimed PR (#465).
faust was first to unvote (#473) - small town points for that. Robz was still at L-1, despite people not being sure that he was scum.
faust then says gkrieg/Awaclus might be scum (#474) - dunno why these 2
EFHW then votes Gkrieg, and Wine votes for EFHW

Jake's scum reads are McEFHW, gkrieg, mcmc, TWM and robz (#496), which he then narrows to Robz, gkrieg and McEFHW (#520)
Wine still think Robz might be mafia (#502)
Robz maybe wants to lynch Awaclus (#508), because of the UB softclaim. His lynch pool is
faust's lynch pool is gkrieg, Awaclus and RR (#523)
Mcmc voted Jake (#527)

So at the end of all that, it seems like everyone so far has gkrieg in their lynchpool. What exactly has he done this game to get like this? Other than being just active enough to not look really lurky?

PPE: 5

[Joseph2302]

So, my thoughts:

1. The_Wine_Merchant - still seems towny
2. IDontPlayThisGame - not been around much, null
3. Robz888 - I really don't know about the Robz wagon, it seemed to gain momentum too quickly. Which makes him more likely to be good I guess?
4. Jakethebaseballgod22 - can never tell with him. But seems daft to lynch him D1 as this is the same confusing town!Jake as in NM9
5. Calamitas - null
6. Awaclus - did he actually softclaim UB? If he did, that's scummy.
7. McEFHW - slightly town I think
8. Joseph2302 - UB / IC
9. mcmcsalot - null
10. faust - leaning towards town
11. Roadrunner7671 - hasn't done anything scummy this game
12. gkrieg13 - lots of people think he's scummy

[Joseph2302]

I guess then my 3 would be gkrieg, Awaclus and IDPTG

[mcmcsalot]

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

...oh nevermind, this is after. Why again hadn't you unvoted EFHW?

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

This is what you do next soo care to clarify your thoughts on robz...

[mcmcsalot]

So at the end of all that, it seems like everyone so far has gkrieg in their lynchpool. What exactly has he done this game to get like this? Other than being just active enough to not look really lurky?

Yea this is the type of danger I think the whole just post your would lynch thing gets us into.

[mcmcsalot]

I feel like if robz was town he would be looking for scum not targeting one person who is a claimed Pr. Because of robz's reactions I now believe Joseph's claim.

But robz believed Joseph was lying scum. And how would his reaction make Joseph's claim more or less believable?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

[Roadrunner7671]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

[mcmcsalot]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

Yes, it's way worse to just get my three. I can see you wanting like a full reads list from me as I haven't been around but just wanting my three is so "let me know what people I'm not going to get flak for pushing"

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

[Roadrunner7671]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

I have posted a lynch pool in the past. I could throw together a reads list. But, especially after most people have already said their three, I see little reason for me to give mine.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

I have posted a lynch pool in the past. I could throw together a reads list. But, especially after most people have already said their three, I see little reason for me to give mine.

Just do a top 3 list. Voting End's at 9 pm forum time on January 5th. If people want a longer deadline just ask and I will extend it.

[Roadrunner7671]

If people want a longer deadline just ask and I will extend it.

Huh?

[LaLight]

Ashersky replaced IDontPlayThisGame

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ashersky replaced IDontPlayThisGame

Noice welcome

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

I have posted a lynch pool in the past. I could throw together a reads list. But, especially after most people have already said their three, I see little reason for me to give mine.

Just do a top 3 list. Voting End's at 9 pm forum time on January 5th. If people want a longer deadline just ask and I will extend it.

Ok no deadline when 9 people have voted the lynch pool will be created with the top 3 vote getters.

[ashersky]

First off, vote: Robz because I haven't been able to type that for like two years.

Also because the rule established in M10 still stands.

unvote

I have only skimmed along this game, have little to no recollection of anything exciting.  Any highlights for me?

I have not read my PM associated with this game, so I am playing blind, and plan to for D1.

[ashersky]

Just checked out the setup post -- looks like quite possibly the greatest setup ever made.  That's just an unbiased outsider's opinion, though.

Also, wth is Jake talking about with regards to the deadline?

[ashersky]

Oh, that's his own deadline for his top 3 thing.

[Roadrunner7671]

Ok no deadline when 9 people have voted the lynch pool will be created with the top 3 vote getters.

trying to do this in a linear fashion is also bad because it gives scum an equal voice without a chance of being caught.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Just checked out the setup post -- looks like quite possibly the greatest setup ever made.  That's just an unbiased outsider's opinion, though.

Also, wth is Jake talking about with regards to the deadline?

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

[gkrieg13]

Caught up and vote: jake I think robz made a good point that he pretty much only finds people scummy after other people find them scummy. Jake also pushed the robz wagon after it was explained that robz thought Awc was soft claiming.* Laslty while I agree that getting us to narrow the lynch pool as we approach deadline is a good thing I actually think the whole "let's post our 3 would lynch candidates" is really scummy. Think about it scum wants desperately to find out all the options town is willing to lynch and doesn't really care what the case is on those people. The best way to find that out is getting everyone's short list.


*about the robz wagon, I had the benefit of having seen the more recent pages and therefor robz explaination before going back and reading how it actually happened so my view is obviously tainted but I would have 100% been pushing to lynch Joseph after seeing awcs post, and I completely believe that is what robz thought. The fact that he believed the claim instantly then flipped right after awcs post seems pretty obvious to me.

I don't think Jake is really all that scummy for his actions.  I at least want him to live past D1 for once.

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

[gkrieg13]

Just checked out the setup post -- looks like quite possibly the greatest setup ever made.  That's just an unbiased outsider's opinion, though.

Also, wth is Jake talking about with regards to the deadline?

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

I don't think this is going to work exactly how you think it will.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So at the end of all that, it seems like everyone so far has gkrieg in their lynchpool.

I don't.

[ashersky]

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

I don't think This is not going to work. exactly how you think it will.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[ashersky]

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

I don't think This is not going to work. exactly how you think it will.

Fixed that for me to fix that for you.

[ashersky]

Just checked out the setup post -- looks like quite possibly the greatest setup ever made.  That's just an unbiased outsider's opinion, though.

Also, wth is Jake talking about with regards to the deadline?

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

Is the "we" here you?  I'd like to see a show of hands from the we folk.

[Roadrunner7671]

This gives scum an equal voice, but without the possibility of us catching them based on what they say. This also stifles conversation about anything but the 3 player pool, which is not helping us catch scum. An analysis of someone's pool won't give us a read on them.

[ashersky]

Has anyone claimed anything?

[Roadrunner7671]

Has anyone claimed anything?

Joseph has claimed UB without a counterclaim.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.5

JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (1): Robz888
EFHW (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (1): EFHW

Not Voting (5): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671, faust, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

\
Everybody has different opinions on who is scum so we need to make a consensus lynch pool that will allow us to make a decision on who were going to lynch and not have a no lynch or rushed deadline lynch that was not well thought through.

[gkrieg13]

This gives scum an equal voice, but without the possibility of us catching them based on what they say. This also stifles conversation about anything but the 3 player pool, which is not helping us catch scum. An analysis of someone's pool won't give us a read on them.

This is like the most mature thing I have ever heard you say.

[ashersky]

Has anyone claimed anything?

Joseph has claimed UB without a counterclaim.

Did whomever I replaced post after that claim so we can assume I'm not the UB?

[ashersky]

This gives scum an equal voice, but without the possibility of us catching them based on what they say. This also stifles conversation about anything but the 3 player pool, which is not helping us catch scum. An analysis of someone's pool won't give us a read on them.

This is like the most mature thing I have ever heard you say.

What was the most mature thing you heard him say?

[ashersky]

Also, not voting RR today.

[Roadrunner7671]

Has anyone claimed anything?

Joseph has claimed UB without a counterclaim.

Did whomever I replaced post after that claim so we can assume I'm not the UB?

No, actually. There was speculation that the UB just didn't want to counterclaim. but at this point most of us think Joseph is an IC.

[Roadrunner7671]

This gives scum an equal voice, but without the possibility of us catching them based on what they say. This also stifles conversation about anything but the 3 player pool, which is not helping us catch scum. An analysis of someone's pool won't give us a read on them.

This is like the most mature thing I have ever heard you say.

Also, not voting RR today.

Thanks guys!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

[mcmcsalot]

I won't give you three.

Scum to town:

Jake - reasons given prior
Awc - really looked like he softclaimed and then also said he wasn't paying attention to the order of posts and did turn around to voting robz after there was an explaination..
Gkrieg - I do think the point about him seeming to pretend to be disinterested is valid.*
EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*
Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*
Roadrunner - null, hasn't stood out to me
Idp - also null
TWM - Relatively towny, have agreed with many of his thoughts.
Calamitous - posting almost exactly how I expect him to at this point. Still disagree with some of his opinions on how Town would act vs scum but I think we just have different opinions. Stronger read on cal tbd at a later point.
Robz - towny as I felt the same way about the whole soft claim and did NOT look like what I would expect scum!robz to do at l-1 on d1 based on people not understanding what he did.
Joseph - Basically IC


*in my notes I took during my reread these were all people I thought were scummy for defending Jospeh when I think he honestly was acting really scummy before his claim. I would expect scum to defend someone they thought wasn't going to be super helpful to town and saw town players targeting him.

PPE 27!?!?!

[Roadrunner7671]

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick by scum so far.

Might've FTFY

[Roadrunner7671]

PPE 27!?!?!

That just means you took a good amount of time to make a comprehensive reads list 

[mcmcsalot]

PPE 27!?!?!

That just means you took a good amount of time to make a comprehensive reads list 

And a wild ashersky appeared!!

[ashersky]

I decided to check and make sure about the UB thing, which meant going against my previous intention to play the day out blind.  I figured if Joseph's lying, it was worth more to be sure than me having some D1 fun.

I'm out for the night all.

Mom salon, I look forward to dueling Roleblocker claims!

[mcmcsalot]

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

[faust]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

[Joseph2302]

I have only skimmed along this game, have little to no recollection of anything exciting.  Any highlights for me?

I got put on L-1 early and had to claim my role- I'm UB.
Then there was an L-1 wagon on Robz, and he claimed VT.

PPE: 1

[faust]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

It was M60.

M60 (faust town/mcmc town):
D1:

I like Vote: faust

he just isn't giving me his normal towny vibes.

I will also vote: faust for all reasons prior stated. Doesn't seem to be doing anything pro town either

D2:

Scum: Andrew, faust
[...]

I'm actually fairly confident in this

M46 (mcmc town, faust town): mcmcsalot is on my D2 mislynch wagon

M42 (mcmc town, faust scum): mcmc pushes for my lynch.

M31 (mcmc town, faust scum): mcmc gets lynch D1.

M30 (mcmc scum, faust town)

... and these are all game we played together (minus two in which I was IC). Not a single one in which mcmc thought I was town.

[faust]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

Explain why it's scummy first. Weird != scummy.

[faust]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

[mcmcsalot]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

I think lying is a bit harsh. I also think you are misconstrueing things a bit.

If we played 7 games together, 6 times I was town, and 2 of those times you were a confirmed town player I think it's likely that's the reason I remember you as usually being towny. You also speak(type) clearly and I like you so it a bit of an eevee situation where when I don't find him towny I find him scummy, oh and did I mention it was slightly...

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

 really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

[mcmcsalot]

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

Do you disagree with what I'm saying above? If so please explain.

[Robz888]

Ashersky! Awesome.

That's some pretty good fact-checking there, faust.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

He has also come into the game after lurking for so long and is all of a sudden causing way more chaos when we should be reducing the chaos so we can come to a lynch conclusion. This is just poor town play or scum play so I say we lynch mcmc.

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

Do you disagree with what I'm saying above? If so please explain.

That may be true but we need to have a consensus effort to put forth cases and I would think that people would look at the cases and decide based off of them not prior judgements.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

[faust]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

Well, mcmc isn't a very frequent player, so it was kind of impossible to get more recent stats.

[faust]

That's some pretty good fact-checking there, faust.

Thanks!

Just imagine mcmc's statement had actually turned out to be correct though. That would have been disappointing.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

Well, mcmc isn't a very frequent player, so it was kind of impossible to get more recent stats.

Oh. That makes sense. I was confused why you weren't using more recent data sets. Seemed like you were cherry picking.

However, that makes your point somewhat less compelling as even if mcmc's statement wasn't truthful I would think that would probably have more to do with memory being faulty over time.

[faust]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

I think lying is a bit harsh. I also think you are misconstrueing things a bit.

If we played 7 games together, 6 times I was town, and 2 of those times you were a confirmed town player I think it's likely that's the reason I remember you as usually being towny. You also speak(type) clearly and I like you so it a bit of an eevee situation where when I don't find him towny I find him scummy, oh and did I mention it was slightly...

Well, lying is harsh, yes. And I do not actually think that you consciously misportrayed the way you read me in prior games. I just wanted to see how you'd react to this accusation.

Ultimately this is about cliché. There is this cliché going around that I am super towny as town. This originates from a sequence of games back in 2015 when I caught scum on D1 in like 3 games in a row or something. Since then, this is an ongoing cliché, even if it is completely inaccurate by now. If you look at my most recent town game (RMM39) and my most recent scum game (NM9), you'll see that as scum I went basically without any suspicion until LyLo while as town I had to claim D1 to prevent my lynch.

So how does this matter? It matters because cliché reads are scum tells. Scum will use clichés to fabricate reads because it's harder for them to really dive into the scumhunting. An example of this are also the EFHW votes (keeping someone at L-1 is scummy).

I also find it curious that you would mention that the scum read you have on me is only slightly, because I fail to see how this matters and it looks like buddying to me.

That said I am glad that you enjoy playing with me I am always worried that my style might sometimes be too aggressive.

[mcmcsalot]

@faust (because quoting would be huge)

That actually makes a lot of sense as to why it would worry you the amount it did. To be more specific out of the players in this game you type very well thought out fully coherent posts which makes it easier to follow your thought process. Because of that I expect to have a town read on you early on and when I found myself null on you I decided that made you slightly scummy.

I mentioned the scum read on you was only slightly because it was in the middle of a reads post on everyone and I wanted to specify there was a decent gap between jake/Awc/gkrieg/EFHW and you and then a much much smaller gap between you and rr/idp(ash) so not buddying, just clarifying.

[faust]

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

I found his posts about what he wrote in his quicktopic and his referencing the previous game to be something town would do. Obviously you feel differently about it. But I feel like that is the sort of above and beyond sort of thinking that I would expect a veteran town player to do compared to a mafia that was just trying to survive and get by wouldn't be able to attain.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Mcmc your the only one here who is scum reading me and I think it's because you haven't played with me before. I think if you had played with me before you would understand that your case on me is not that scummy.

[Robz888]

Faust, that's a good case on gkrieg. It's also tempered with enough reasonable doubt that I'm getting a really strong town read on you, so good job. That's almost of more value than the case itself.

I should probably look back at gkrieg. I don't think it's that scummy of him to suspect/vote me before I laid out the reasoning for my Joseph skepticism. And I have noticed that gkrieg tends to always read me as scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

Me and RR are really good irl friends so we argue a lot just look at M88,M87,M89 and we argue much more in those games but those posts have been actually discussing the game.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

Me and RR are really good irl friends so we argue a lot just look at M88,M87,M89 and we argue much more in those games but those posts have been actually discussing the game.

And 20 is not that much.

[Robz888]

WM, for what it's worth, RR and Jake spend every game talking to each other constantly. It's super annoying but really doesn't have anything to do with anything except their IRL connection.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

WM, for what it's worth, RR and Jake spend every game talking to each other constantly. It's super annoying but really doesn't have anything to do with anything except their IRL connection.

Not that much this game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Me and RR are really good irl friends so we argue a lot just look at M88,M87,M89 and we argue much more in those games but those posts have been actually discussing the game.

Oh. I didn't realize you two knew each other. That would certainly explain it. But I would state that 20 out of 40 is a lot in a vacuum, hence it being enough for me to notice and feel like it was worth commenting on.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

What do you think about a mcmc lynch?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

What do you think about a mcmc lynch?

Not as open to it as I was now that he is actually posting content and participating.

I feel like you are just mad at him because he didn't like your list three idea. Which seems like a lame reason to suspect and vote for someone.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

[faust]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Then we should make it one.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc your the only one here who is scum reading me and I think it's because you haven't played with me before. I think if you had played with me before you would understand that your case on me is not that scummy.

Okay I maintain that the 3 lynch thing is scummy and a bad way to come to a lynch and I think you have been given a bit too much of a pass just because you always do "crazy" things but I will concede that me pushing the point is probably a waste of time for the day and not helpful this late in the day.

[mcmcsalot]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Yep, my read on cal is that he has played consistent with what I expect and I mentioned that it would be a stronger read "to be determined", because if he continues to play the way I expect I expect to be able to read him better later.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Yep, my read on cal is that he has played consistent with what I expect and I mentioned that it would be a stronger read "to be determined", because if he continues to play the way I expect I expect to be able to read him better later.

Oh, I misunderstood what you wrote. But I have a hard time believing everyone is just ok with this style of play. The only person that benefits from it is Calamitas. Does he suddenly become a mafia wizard on Day2 or something?

[mcmcsalot]

I like the gkrieg case from Faust, it was me who said he was defending Joseph before Joseph's claim which I thought was scummy as well as the whole pretending to be disinterested theory EFHW mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

[faust]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Then we should make it one.

So you're proposing a policy lynch?

Not that I don't get the sentiment. But Calamitas has been lynched for this behaviour before and it didn't change anything.

[mcmcsalot]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Yep, my read on cal is that he has played consistent with what I expect and I mentioned that it would be a stronger read "to be determined", because if he continues to play the way I expect I expect to be able to read him better later.

Oh, I misunderstood what you wrote. But I have a hard time believing everyone is just ok with this style of play. The only person that benefits from it is Calamitas. Does he suddenly become a mafia wizard on Day2 or something?

No it's really that he just has a meta of only posting when he has some kind of strength to his reads. I have told him I think he really needs to try to give his opinions more and I still think that but I don't think what he has posted is scummy. If a case was made that was more then "he's not posting much" I would be willing to hear it but I don't think there is one.

Also see my previous post on why d1 lynches on low post players is actually bad for town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Then we should make it one.

So you're proposing a policy lynch?

Not that I don't get the sentiment. But Calamitas has been lynched for this behaviour before and it didn't change anything.

I was suggesting that we vote for him unless he provides reads by stating that if he doesn't provide reads he is admitting that he is mafia. So I guess that is a policy lynch? Did he just want to mess with everyone before?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

If a case was made that was more then "he's not posting much" I would be willing to hear it but I don't think there is one.

Also see my previous post on why d1 lynches on low post players is actually bad for town.

Which post are you referencing? I must have either missed it or glossed over it. And it isn't just that he isn't posting much, it is that I think we have had a day (keep in mind I don't really have a whole lot to compare to) where a lot has gone on. Two claims, two L-1 wagons. You would think he would have some decent to strong opinions right about now. That he doesn't makes me think he is hiding something.

[mcmcsalot]

Why isn't Calamitas getting attention?

He hasn't posted a single scum read or voted for anyone all game long! If there is one thing that I suspect mcmc for it was having a strong town read on him. Looks fabricated.

As much as this sucks, it's not an alignment tell for Calamitas.

Then we should make it one.

So you're proposing a policy lynch?

Not that I don't get the sentiment. But Calamitas has been lynched for this behaviour before and it didn't change anything.

He has given me enough reason to believe he actively tries to post thoughts when he has things to base his thoughts on that I would not lynch him for it on d1. like when the whole should we or should we not lynch the claimed ub situation went down cal was actively advocating against lynching joe due to the fact that it was not counterclaimed. He also didnt jump on the robz wagon and provided good analysis of the fact that pushing the lynch on Joseph didn't make sense for town or scum robz so there must be an alternative reason and there was.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

He has given me enough reason to believe he actively tries to post thoughts when he has things to base his thoughts on that I would not lynch him for it on d1. like when the whole should we or should we not lynch the claimed ub situation went down cal was actively advocating against lynching joe due to the fact that it was not counterclaimed. He also didnt jump on the robz wagon and provided good analysis of the fact that pushing the lynch on Joseph didn't make sense for town or scum robz so there must be an alternative reason and there was.

Ok. That is fair. He has had strong opinions, they have just been in defense of people. So my statement above wasn't correct.

[mcmcsalot]

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

Underlined part is he part about d1 lynch on a low post count player. The flip just becomes much less helpful because everyone gets a pretty airtight reason to vote for the player and not be held accountable.

[EFHW]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

I really wanted Robz to be scum and I really wanted to lynch him, based entirely on previous games. I wasn't emotionally ready to unvote!

[Calamitas]

As much as it sucks, I just doesn't get real reads D1 usually with the limited info. I analyse the stuff by asking myself "Is that post more likely to come from scum!x or from town!x" and usually the answer is either "equally likely" or "cannot tell". So I restrict myself to help where I actually can contribute instead of throwing reads around that don't reflect my opinions.

[Robz888]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

I really wanted Robz to be scum and I really wanted to lynch him, based entirely on previous games. I wasn't emotionally ready to unvote!

This is very understandable.

[gkrieg13]

I will respond to the case on me shortly.  I was out of internet yesterday, and today was a busy day.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.6

JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (1): Robz888
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, ashersky, Roadrunner7671,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[ashersky]

vote: Faust

[ashersky]

Mom salon is town.  Robz's instant props for faust's scummy post is suspect.  Also don't like the VT claim.  There's a bunch of null going around.  I probably should read the full thread in earnest.

JosephJordanOxygenSquared is towny since I joined.

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.6

JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (1): Robz888
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, ashersky, Roadrunner7671,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Oh yh, I meant to switch my vote.
Vote: Awaclus

PPE: 1

[gkrieg13]

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I don't get why it is scummy that I townread and defended someone.  I had some pretty good evidence (meta) and I don't really whiteknight as scum.  I will point out that I was right in the end anyway, and my reads have been pretty good lately.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

I don't really believe that I lurk more as scum.  I feel like I have been as active in this game as I usually am anyway.  I feel like Jake could be a really good mafia player, but that he does need a little bit of coaching.  I think it would certainly boost his record if he took some of my advice.  I actually don't like this point at all.  The last time I was lynched D1 was when I was town, and it was for having too much fluff.  The posts that I have made haven't been acti-lurking posts, I have been making some good posts, expressing reads (strong reads, not ones that I can really back out of).  None of those things are really scummy.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

I stand by the fact that looking at the behavior Robz looked really scummy.  Why would town!Robz repeat a behavior that he did as scum anyway?  I get the new information that Robz shared, but I still think he is scummy for still wanting Joseph to be hammered.  I think everyone understood that a 1v1 D1 on the UB is definitely worth the counterclaim.  UB isn't super amazing awesome in this setup anyway, which is why in FanFiction mafia, we had the UB claim (I admit that this was scum driven, but enough people agreed on it that I think it is true).  Also I think when dealing with Robz, he is pretty good at explaining his way out of a scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I post honestly as both alignments.  It's my speech pattern, and I use it IRL as well and it bugs my wife.

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

I also don't agree with this point.  I stand by this, and lynching me D1 is a bad choice anyway.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

I said that "confirmed" is what I posted in my QT, because it was half a joke, and something that I hadn't planned on sharing.  I only shared it because I picked up on something that other people did.  I think it does matter if I think Awaclus looked like he was claiming UB.  That is the only measure I have for seeing if I believed that Robz honestly thought that.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I don't really get what you mean here

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

Well you really did choose to view everything I have done in a scum-centered light.  I have been giving solid reads on people as I have been reading the game.  I haven't been lurking, and I still think that Robz is our best shot at lynching scum today.  I think it was Axxle that said that his correct lynch rate was high because he looks at individual posts to find someone scummy, and I think that can be a very good technique.

responses in bold.

[gkrieg13]

Faust, that's a good case on gkrieg. It's also tempered with enough reasonable doubt that I'm getting a really strong town read on you, so good job. That's almost of more value than the case itself.

I should probably look back at gkrieg. I don't think it's that scummy of him to suspect/vote me before I laid out the reasoning for my Joseph skepticism. And I have noticed that gkrieg tends to always read me as scum.

I think I have correctly read you as scum twice.

[gkrieg13]

I like the gkrieg case from Faust, it was me who said he was defending Joseph before Joseph's claim which I thought was scummy as well as the whole pretending to be disinterested theory EFHW mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

I think I already addressed this.  So from a town mindset, if I think that Joseph is townie, what am I supposed to do in that situation?  Why is defending Joseph (who I have played many games with) scummy?

Also I wasn't pretending to be disinterested.  This is just how I play D1 usually.  Trust me, I come alive D2.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I like the gkrieg case from Faust, it was me who said he was defending Joseph before Joseph's claim which I thought was scummy as well as the whole pretending to be disinterested theory EFHW mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

I think I already addressed this.  So from a town mindset, if I think that Joseph is townie, what am I supposed to do in that situation?  Why is defending Joseph (who I have played many games with) scummy?

Also I wasn't pretending to be disinterested.  This is just how I play D1 usually.  Trust me, I come alive D2.

Very true

[Robz888]

Gkrieg is a strong enough town asset that I am highly resistance to lynching him Day 1, even if he's suspicious.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

This is why I tried to narrow the lynch pool because there is no one person who were debating over now and every one is just throwing out different people. If we had narrowed it even if it helped scum we may have been able to have a consensus lynch not a rushed deadline vote. If we had three people that we could debate over then everybody could have made cases for or against said player. It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg is a strong enough town asset that I am highly resistance to lynching him Day 1, even if he's suspicious.

Maybe this way I will survive the night.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want. 

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

This is why I tried to narrow the lynch pool because there is no one person who were debating over now and every one is just throwing out different people. If we had narrowed it even if it helped scum we may have been able to have a consensus lynch not a rushed deadline vote. If we had three people that we could debate over then everybody could have made cases for or against said player. It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

Why narrow it to three, specifically?  Why let everyone help narrow, instead of having Joseph (for example) do it?  Why is a rushed deadline lynch so bad?  They've worked out before and those rushed posts are good scumhunting tools.

I can think of scummy reasons for you to push this narrowing idea, you know.  More than towny reasons, too. 

Still, seems like rookie town to me.

[ashersky]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want.

Wrong.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

[ashersky]

Also, I sort of built in a no lynch into this setup, but it's never been used.  Wouldn't be opposed to seeing how that played out.

[ashersky]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, I sort of built in a no lynch into this setup, but it's never been used.  Wouldn't be opposed to seeing how that played out.

Tell us more!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'll be on towards the deadline to vote the rushed lynch. Will wait for the D-2 to give my theory and reads.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Translation: I'm gonna see how the flip turns before I start laying out cases on my reads.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Man this day is frustrating

[ashersky]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Translation: I'm gonna see how the flip turns before I start laying out cases on my reads.

Your translation is scummier than mine.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want.

You sure seem to know a lot about what scum wants. You know what triggered people voting all over the place. Your suggestion to list three different people. That is what caused this so-called chaos.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah #646 looks really bad for Jake. And even though he gets the 'Jake pass,' his best tactic for staying alive might be to not poke the ashersky.

[Robz888]

Vote: Jake. We have to lynch someone, and we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway, and hey, now is a some point.

[Roadrunner7671]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

[Robz888]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

You can keep saying that false statement. This is what I mean TWM. Everybody wants to lynch someone different.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

Let's just see what happens D-2.

[Robz888]

I actually don't want to lynch Jake as much as usual. Unvote

[Calamitas]

vote: Faust

Why?

[Roadrunner7671]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

I thought you meant because he won't be a night kill, but I guess the above works too

[Robz888]

we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway

I think I know what you mean but can you explain this anyways?

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

I thought you meant because he won't be a night kill, but I guess the above works too

That too.

[gkrieg13]

I actually don't want to lynch Jake as much as usual. Unvote

I actually feel like Jake is trying to scum hunt so I would be very reluctant to lynch him

[Calamitas]

I actually don't want to lynch Jake as much as usual. Unvote

I actually feel like Jake is trying to scum hunt so I would be very reluctant to lynch him

I agree, Jakes plays this one way different than the last ones. Not sure an alignment tell, but certainly a change for the better.

[Calamitas]

I actually don't want to lynch Jake as much as usual. Unvote

I actually feel like Jake is trying to scum hunt so I would be very reluctant to lynch him

I agree, Jakes plays this one way different than the last ones. Not sure if an alignment tell, but certainly a change for the better.

Fixed

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

ohh robz you just made a lucky vote. I was just about to drop a case on you but your vote nulls it due to seeming like just voting for voting me dang.

[Roadrunner7671]

ohh robz you just made a lucky vote. I was just about to drop a case on you but your vote nulls it due to seeming like just voting for voting me dang.

Wtf man. If you have a case on Robz, make it! Don't change your reads based purely on OMGUS. I agree with the sentiment that you're sort of trying to scum hunt but come on.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

ohh robz you just made a lucky vote. I was just about to drop a case on you but your vote nulls it due to seeming like just voting for voting me dang.

Wtf man. If you have a case on Robz, make it! Don't change your reads based purely on OMGUS. I agree with the sentiment that you're sort of trying to scum hunt but come on.

I will tomorrow but if i do it now everyone will just say "you're just saying this because he is voting you" there fore I have to wait till tommorow to release it. And nothing changed except more proof of my theroy.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok case on Robz...Here we go

Ok so Robz begins the game with some RVS voting nothing of substance there.

Then he is silent for a while before jumping on the Joseph Wagon before a claim and then saying this:

"I've never played with Joseph, and it could be that he acts crazy independent of alignment. It still seemed forced, to me."

This is how he defends his vote but then he go's from semi lurking too becoming the main pusher for the Joseph Wagon and then Pressures him to claim:

It's time for your claim, Joseph.

After the claim Robz proceeds to unvote before voting him right away agian once the idea of a fake claim is brought up after just basiclly declaring him a IC.

Unvote

And shame on you.

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

Now Robz has explained this by saying he though that awa was soft claiming UB but earlier he said that he would only vote if there was a counter claim (there wasn't) but he voted anyway and then proceed to try and convince people that he was fake claiming.

Now he didn't say much untill he uses said excuse (awa soft claim) and votes awa and procceds to fight him about the soft claim.

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

He then proceeds to get votes on him and defends himself with the same excuse that awa was soft claiming before claiming VT.

I am a Vanilla Townie.

After this he get's unvotes but as scum Vt is a very easy claim. he then tries to lynch awa again for the soft claiming thing.

I think I'm still most inclined to lynch Awaclus.

This is just repetitive by robz where he is trying to get a town player lynched like he has been trying to do for most of the game. Again scummy.

Faust, that's a good case on gkrieg. It's also tempered with enough reasonable doubt that I'm getting a really strong town read on you, so good job. That's almost of more value than the case itself.

I should probably look back at gkrieg. I don't think it's that scummy of him to suspect/vote me before I laid out the reasoning for my Joseph skepticism. And I have noticed that gkrieg tends to always read me as scum.

So the next wagon is Big G which robz of course tries to push (his second time pushing for a easy wagon lynch of the game) But when he realizes that it won't be easy he quickly recants his statement and go silent.

Gkrieg is a strong enough town asset that I am highly resistance to lynching him Day 1, even if he's suspicious.

A bit of forced town talk in his recantment as well.
Now by the mcmc has started trying to lynch me so what does robz do........ He goes for another easy lynch

Vote: Jake. We have to lynch someone, and we also have to lynch Jake at some point anyway, and hey, now is a some point.

Just because he's a huge distraction and also liability because he just accuses everyone who criticizes him of being scum.

Same old lynch Jake redirect that has easily lynched me in the past. Then People start to come to my defense making it no longer a easy lynch and what does robz do....... Unvotes

I actually don't want to lynch Jake as much as usual. Unvote

In total I want to lynch robz due to the fact of him pushing the easy lynch's and wagons that have formed and not forming his own scum reads. Also for the whole soft claiming disaster. Therefore I Vote: Robz

[ashersky]

Nice case, actually.

Supports my Robz-is-faust's-partner theory.

[faust]

Nice case, actually.

Supports my Robz-is-faust's-partner theory.

Man, if I was a Mason, I would have claimed already.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am going to have pretty limited availability starting in about 4 hours through the deadline. Will be crashing at friends house over weekend.

[EFHW]

Are you going to leave your vote on me?  It would be more useful somewhere else.

[EFHW]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Are you going to leave your vote on me?  It would be more useful somewhere else.

That would probably be a good idea.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: robz

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

How does nothing I say bear on my alignment yet my defense was good?

[Robz888]

Nice case, actually.

Supports my Robz-is-faust's-partner theory.

If me liking faust's case means I'm his scum partner, what does that say about you liking Jake's case?

[EFHW]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

How does nothing I say bear on my alignment yet my defense was good?

It was a good defense in that it gave a towny feel. It makes one want to let you live because of the promise of Day 2.  Looking at it closer, though, I don't actually feel persuaded.

[EFHW]

Your points about Robz are plausible, though. I won't rule out a Robz vote.

[EFHW]

vote count please!

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

How does nothing I say bear on my alignment yet my defense was good?

It was a good defense in that it gave a towny feel. It makes one want to let you live because of the promise of Day 2.  Looking at it closer, though, I don't actually feel persuaded.

So you think I've been scummy still for all of the reasons faust pointed out?

[faust]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

[Robz888]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

[faust]

Here's an idea: Let's look at pairs of three.

Jake: Robz, gkrieg, EFHW
faust: gkrieg, Awaclus, RR
Awaclus: Robz, gkrieg, Jake
This really does not leave me with a good feeling at all. I don't know if Awaclus has previously suspected gkrieg, but if not then this is just too convenient. And the other two reads I just don't agree with at all.
TWM: EFHW, Calamitas, mcmc
Very nonconformist. I like it.
Robz: Awaclus, Idplay/ashersky, gkrieg
Joseph: gkrieg, Awaclus, Idplay/ahsersky

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

[faust]

What irks me about mcmc is how he had an activity burst right when we started tilting towards a lurker lynch.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.8

Robz888 (4): gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22, The_Wine_Merchant
Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2): faust, Robz888
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

What lynches are you opposed to? Maybe I am misremembering but it seems like you have been OK lynching just about everyone this game.

[faust]

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

Well that is not going to be a good enough reason for me to vote for him.

[gkrieg13]

I would be fine with a Robz lynch, an Awaclus lynch.  Not really feeling mcmc or RR.

[gkrieg13]

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

Couldn't that just mean that Awaclus has different reads?  Why is that scummy?

[EFHW]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

How does nothing I say bear on my alignment yet my defense was good?

It was a good defense in that it gave a towny feel. It makes one want to let you live because of the promise of Day 2.  Looking at it closer, though, I don't actually feel persuaded.

So you think I've been scummy still for all of the reasons faust pointed out?

For the reasons I pointed out, actually, before faust's case.

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg gave a good defense, but nothing he said really bears on his alignment.  He's the closest thing to a case that we have at the moment, so I'm sticking there.

Jake did a decent case on Robz, and I agree the defense of gkrieg might be scummy.  But I can't boomerang back and forth like that.  Maybe the drama over the soft-claim was staged, but I don't really think so right now.

How does nothing I say bear on my alignment yet my defense was good?

It was a good defense in that it gave a towny feel. It makes one want to let you live because of the promise of Day 2.  Looking at it closer, though, I don't actually feel persuaded.

So you think I've been scummy still for all of the reasons faust pointed out?

For the reasons I pointed out, actually, before faust's case.

The indifference thing?

[faust]

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

Well that is not going to be a good enough reason for me to vote for him.

Well I cannot talk about the rest. But there is also stuff that makes me think Awaclus is probably not a good lynch for today.

[EFHW]

So you think I've been scummy still for all of the reasons faust pointed out?

For the reasons I pointed out, actually, before faust's case.

The indifference thing?

And continuing to press your theory without acknowledging new information about the soft-claiming assumption.  faust also made this point after I did.

[EFHW]

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

[EFHW]

Is Joseph v/la?  As semi-IC, he should be trying to be more active.

[EFHW]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Copy cat:

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

What lynches are you opposed to? Maybe I am misremembering but it seems like you have been OK lynching just about everyone this game.

[Robz888]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I would lynch anyone except TWM, Joseph, Faust and probably asher just because of how late he came in.

[EFHW]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Copy cat:

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

What lynches are you opposed to? Maybe I am misremembering but it seems like you have been OK lynching just about everyone this game.

I thought someone had said it, but couldn't find it! Bears repeating, in any case.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm in another game...I wanted this game to start later...I started posting in this game after the other game went into night and I could catch up...I stopped posting when the other game went back into day...I don't plan on being in multiple games at once anymore it's why I left last time. Not a college kid anymore with lots of free time.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

I still maintain that it wasn't mcmcsalot that caused this chaos, and I still don't think it is correct to categorize it as chaos, but it was you demanding everyone list three individuals that caused the spreading out of votes.

[mcmcsalot]

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

I still maintain that it wasn't mcmcsalot that caused this chaos, and I still don't think it is correct to categorize it as chaos, but it was you demanding everyone list three individuals that caused the spreading out of votes.

Yes! This this this. It's a stupid horrible plan that caused everyone to stop posting reads and start posting "would lynch". In fact I think it's Faust who said he liked the plan and I sorta find that even more scummy then jake actually forcing it to happen since it seems everyone expects town!jake to do this.

Also I want to note that I posted an entire reads list with explainations instead since you know giving reads and making cases is how we normally lynch people.

[faust]

Yes! This this this. It's a stupid horrible plan that caused everyone to stop posting reads and start posting "would lynch".

Er. I have very strong doubts that this is a thing that happened.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yes! This this this. It's a stupid horrible plan that caused everyone to stop posting reads and start posting "would lynch".

Er. I have very strong doubts that this is a thing that happened.

You are both missing the point. There hasn't been any chaos. Jake is the one insisting that there was. Everything that has happened hasn't been a big deal.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

WE HAVE 18 HOURS!!! why does no one seem to be interested in lynching anyone. Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch. I still say we lynch robz.

[Robz888]

Vote: Awaclus

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

[Robz888]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

WE HAVE 18 HOURS!!! why does no one seem to be interested in lynching anyone. Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch. I still say we lynch robz.

Oh my god!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

Ok i have a wild theroy if that is true. Awa could be scum by this theroy. What if awa soft claimed Ub thinking he could get the actual Ub lynched doing a fake counter claim and then when that didn't work pinning it on robz as though he made the whole thing up. I was thinking and robz is too good of a player to not see a soft claim which is why I thought of this.1

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

Ok i have a wild theroy if that is true. Awa could be scum by this theroy. What if awa soft claimed Ub thinking he could get the actual Ub lynched doing a fake counter claim and then when that didn't work pinning it on robz as though he made the whole thing up. I was thinking and robz is too good of a player to not see a soft claim which is why I thought of this.1

There fore Vote: Awaclus

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

Ok i have a wild theroy if that is true. Awa could be scum by this theroy. What if awa soft claimed Ub thinking he could get the actual Ub lynched doing a fake counter claim and then when that didn't work pinning it on robz as though he made the whole thing up. I was thinking and robz is too good of a player to not see a soft claim which is why I thought of this.1

But you think robz is scum so I don't know how well that works.

[Robz888]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

Ok i have a wild theroy if that is true. Awa could be scum by this theroy. What if awa soft claimed Ub thinking he could get the actual Ub lynched doing a fake counter claim and then when that didn't work pinning it on robz as though he made the whole thing up. I was thinking and robz is too good of a player to not see a soft claim which is why I thought of this.1

Well, yes, that's exactly what I suspected when I moved my vote to Awaclus.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awaclus

robz i have a question. Do you honestly think that awa was soft claiming UB?

I did at the time, yes.

Ok i have a wild theroy if that is true. Awa could be scum by this theroy. What if awa soft claimed Ub thinking he could get the actual Ub lynched doing a fake counter claim and then when that didn't work pinning it on robz as though he made the whole thing up. I was thinking and robz is too good of a player to not see a soft claim which is why I thought of this.1

But you think robz is scum so I don't know how well that works.

Yeah i do so i'm not sure of that theory though but I could see that happening.

[Roadrunner7671]

Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch.

You were the one who brought 'chaos' up, and you're the one who keeps replying to posts about chaos and facilitating that conversation.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch.

You were the one who brought 'chaos' up, and you're the one who keeps replying to posts about chaos and facilitating that conversation.

Yeah but it shouldn't be the main conversation right in front of the deadline.

[Roadrunner7671]

Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch.

You were the one who brought 'chaos' up, and you're the one who keeps replying to posts about chaos and facilitating that conversation.

Yeah but it shouldn't be the main conversation right in front of the deadline.

Then you shouldn't have brought it up!!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch.

You were the one who brought 'chaos' up, and you're the one who keeps replying to posts about chaos and facilitating that conversation.

Yeah but it shouldn't be the main conversation right in front of the deadline.

Then you shouldn't have brought it up!!

Whoops.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You both are completely , hilariously ridiculous.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Now can we get back to talking about who we are lynching.  Also RR i think i'm leaning towards voting awa because despite robz's scummy actions I would think that scum would actually do that theory in that instance.

[Robz888]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Also will not be on at the deadline due to practice.

[gkrieg13]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

I don't know why, but it seems like you are buddying Jake so that he doesn't vote for you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

The chaos crap? That isn't a point. And it is certainly worth questioning. And it isn't just RR.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

I don't know why, but it seems like you are buddying Jake so that he doesn't vote for you.

Don't worry I will if he is getting lynched.

[Awaclus]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

It's not true or valid.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

It's not true or valid.

If anyone is doing the unnecessary shaming it is Robz

[Robz888]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

I don't know why, but it seems like you are buddying Jake so that he doesn't vote for you.

Yes, with all that glowing praise I threw his way

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm actually pretty sure that if Jake is scum, he's try D1 bussing. It just seems like the type of thing scum!Jake would want to experiment with. That being said, Jake seems surprisingly towny this game, but I want my observation to be know so I can at least, if nothing else, get to say 'I told you so.'

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Jake stumbled his way into a point that was true and valid, and RR is shaming him for it, for some reason.

It's not true or valid.

Why not?

[Joseph2302]

Checking in. I'll have a look later today. Cannot guarantee I'll be around at deadline

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.9

Robz888 (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant
Awaclus (3): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): faust
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 15 hours.

[mcmcsalot]

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

Scummy plan, it hurts town to stop giving reads and give would lynch lists so early day 1 when wagons can form super fast and all interactions are helpful for later.

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

I have posted a lynch pool in the past. I could throw together a reads list. But, especially after most people have already said their three, I see little reason for me to give mine.

Just do a top 3 list. Voting End's at 9 pm forum time on January 5th. If people want a longer deadline just ask and I will extend it.

Why do you insist unless we follow your plan there will be a rushed deadline lynch. Actually it is possible from what I have heard you don't typically last long in a game and are usually mislynched so extreme paranoia over a "rushed" lynch or a lynch on you is reasonable from a town!jake perspective.

Just checked out the setup post -- looks like quite possibly the greatest setup ever made.  That's just an unbiased outsider's opinion, though.

Also, wth is Jake talking about with regards to the deadline?

We are narrowing the lynch pool to 3 people so every one is giving the three people they want to be in the pool and when we get 9 votes in total I will establish it. Currently at 6.

...removed vote count showing 1 to 2 votes on players to save space
Everybody has different opinions on who is scum so we need to make a consensus lynch pool that will allow us to make a decision on who were going to lynch and not have a no lynch or rushed deadline lynch that was not well thought through.

yes lots of opinions, I would love to hear those and organically allow a wagon to build as a good case/opinion is made! You are quelling that discussion by forcing this 3 lynch pool idea!

...removed vote count showing 2 or 3 votes on everyone to save space
This is why I tried to narrow the lynch pool because there is no one person who were debating over now and every one is just throwing out different people. If we had narrowed it even if it helped scum we may have been able to have a consensus lynch not a rushed deadline vote. If we had three people that we could debate over then everybody could have made cases for or against said player. It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

So now you are coming around to understanding that this plan allows for scum to vote with no recourse tomorrow because it was the "consensus", but you are still so paranoid about a rushed lynch that you think the best plan would still be coming to a consensus. Really this is where you have to understand we can't limit discussion to be about three people and only make cases on them, it is so weirdly restricting. And what you are describing as chaos is players trying to post opinions and reads. D1 can almost always be described as chaotic, its mafia and we know nothing!

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want.

I agree with the fact that scum would love a rushed deadline lynch, but don't you see you keep saying we should have narrowed down to three people instead of just making cases and that is partially adding to the delay of things.

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Again, I am understanding your sentiment that day 1 is crazy and reads are weak, but statements like who most people agree on are not helpful. We agree with eachother by voting and then forming a wagon, not saying who we would be willing to lynch based off of the discussion so far and then forming orderly cases on those people.

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

What I came in and did was post a reads!!!!!!! Like those things you could be doing.

WE HAVE 18 HOURS!!! why does no one seem to be interested in lynching anyone. Everyone is talking about how much chaos there is instead of focusing on who we are going to lynch. I still say we lynch robz.

Again, the paranoia is understandable and at this point i'm sure you feel like you are getting nowhere(because you aren't) and that is causing this overblown reaction which again I hope you see is part of the problem.

After all of this I guess the conclusion I come to is that Jake just has a really bad plan, doesn't understand that it is causing the problem he is trying to avoid, and as time goes on is getting more desperate because he has not been a part of many successful day ones.

[mcmcsalot]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

[gkrieg13]

I'll be around tomorrow at deadline.

[EFHW]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

[EFHW]

I'm not sure what to make of Jake's plan. He is acting differently. This could be an awkward effort at improving his play, or an awkward effort to try to seem towny. There is something artificial in his complaints about chaos, etc.

[Joseph2302]

So, since I last posted, we've had:

• An argument about lynching Jake or not (#650 - 663)
• Jake had a case on Robz (#666)
• faust wrote up the list of 3s, says Awaclus' is too convenient
• Some discussion on who we should/shouldn't lynch. Seems like only "definitely don't lynches" are me (almost IC) and Wine. I also don't much like an ash lynch, as my wish for having IDPTG on my list was that they were lurky, and ash is contributing well here now.
• Jake has a theory about Awaclus being scum softclaiming UB (#713 - 724)
• Mcmc makes a post against Jake (#736), but then immediately votes faust (#737) - that's odd!

[Joseph2302]

So for me, Jake seems different to all the other games, but it's a good working hard different (which is better than making jokes all day Jake).

I wouldn't lynch me, Wine or probably not ash.

Current votes are 3 on Robz & Awaclus, 2 on faust, 1 on gkrieg and mcmc, I believe.

My preference would be for Vote: Awaclus- that's L-3

[Joseph2302]

I'll have phone access only for most of rest of day

[faust]

Not too much time left, hu? Let's do a quick rundown.

1. The_Wine_Merchant
Working really hard, not afraid to go against consensus opinion, engaged and all the good stuff. Would not lynch.

2. ashersky (née IDontPlayThisGame)
Just subbed in, and Idplay didn't offer much. Nullest of null, but I want to play with ash some more, so wouldn't lynch.

3. Robz888
I think many things here are towny. Scum!Robz is less likely to realize that Awaclus' posts could be spun towards him softclaiming than town!Robz, who is actually actively looking for these signs. The wagon on him also kinda happened too quickly. One thing that's a head-scratcher is why he claimed. I think we would be in a better place had he refused to claim. But it's conceivable that he feared the rage-hammer.

4. Jakethebaseballgod22
I like the new Jake here. There are genuine attempts to actively scumhunt. I think scum!Jake would try to act closer to his established meta. Also lynching Jake D1 is something I really don't want to do again.

5. Calamitas
Man who knows really? I'd let him live hoping that he gets more useful. But there's nothing really that would make me oppose his lynch.

6. Awaclus
This game's Awaclus is close to his old meta. What does it mean? I don't know. But there are reasons why I would rather let him live for now.

7. McEFHW
I thought EFHW's entrance was towny, don't remember why. I do remember that EFHW left her vote on Robz even though she did not scumread him anymore. While I think that scum!EHFW might do that, she wouldn't post about it, just quietly keep her vote there hoping for a hammer. THe fact that she decided to draw attention to this is towny.

8. Joseph2302
IC

9. mcmcsalot
This is hard. I still think his initial read on me was fishy. I don't like how he buttered me up afterwards, telling me how clear my writing is and that he gets where I'm coming from. I don't understand the insistence on how Jake's threes are super bad, but I guess that's not alignment-indicative.

11. Roadrunner7671
I'm mostly drawing a blank here. And he's not even voting. Can we prod him? Will check. ... no he actually posted lately, useless conspiracy theory stuff.

12. gkrieg13
This makes me go back and forth. Timeline is something like this: I think he's scummy, then we have the 3's and lots of people voicing suspicion. That makes me wonder if there's scum just conveniently jumping. I still present my case, because you know, it's in my head. It catches on somewhat. I am worried that I'm driving a mislynch, so I jump off. Then the game continues and everyone just abandons the gkrieg wagon. Is that just an "early suspicion is good" thing from scum? I know Robz thinks that (I don't know why; I think no suspicion is generally preferable).

What gkrieg posted in his defense didn't really sway me.

[faust]

I think that mcmc won't be lynched today probably, and I'm just as fine with gkrieg. vote: gkrieg

I wouldn't be opposed to an RR quicklynch if that's happening.

[faust]

I kind of think Awaclus is a bad lynch.

[faust]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

Quotes or it didn't happen.

[faust]

• Mcmc makes a post against Jake (#736), but then immediately votes faust (#737) - that's odd!

Not every reread is a case against someone.

[EFHW]

So for me, Jake seems different to all the other games, but it's a good working hard different (which is better than making jokes all day Jake).

I wouldn't lynch me, Wine or probably not ash.

Current votes are 3 on Robz & Awaclus, 2 on faust, 1 on gkrieg and mcmc, I believe.

My preference would be for Vote: Awaclus- that's L-3

You were already voting him, so still L-4.

[Awaclus]

Vote: gkrieg seems fine since there isn't that much time left.

[EFHW]

Ash, mcmc, I really doubt a faust lynch is happening today.

[EFHW]

Calamitas and RR need to vote!

[Calamitas]

Calamitas and RR need to vote!

Online and re-reading.

[mcmcsalot]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

WHAT THREE WAGONS???

Vote count from 3 posts earlier

Vote Count 1.9

Robz888 (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant
Awaclus (3): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): faust
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 15 hours.

you mean the robz/awc "wagons" with 3 vote on it...or the gkrieg one which I'M CURRENTLY ONE OF TWO PEOPLE...

If you want people to vote for someone MAKE A CASE. If i like it i will state that and why and vote. I won't "just vote for someone!"

Like am I going crazy here or does noone want to do actual scumhunting since its day one and its hard...

[Calamitas]

Okay, finished my re-read.

Gkrieg doesn't come out of it very towny nor scummy. He didn't act very alignment-indicative and it seemed like he was trying to. Could totally see that from town!gkrieg due to his recent history with N1 kills due to being too towny but also from scum!gkrieg trying to play within that narrative. Null overall probably.

Awaclus played totally within his meta for pretty much the whole game. But I don't like his comments about the UB, could totally see scum!Awa trying to trick someone into believing it to get that person lynched the day after. Could be town!Awaclus also (not paying attention, stating obvious things like "If we know he is scum we don't need a counterclaim") without an ulterior motive, but I think that is less likely. Overall slight scum.

Robz is very hard too judge here. I think he genuinely believed Awa was softclaiming (I don't think scum!robz would have done that otherwise) but I suppose he would have acted like he did with either alignment. And the rest is just not alignment-indicative at all. Overall a big null.

vote: Awaclus

And I don't really see which reasons faust could have there. At this stage of the game only masons have evidence about other players and playing like faust did as a mason seems overly bold.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

I'm a 1-shot roleblocker.

[gkrieg13]

Well I think I have to stay on Awaclus to avoid being the lynch. I would rather lynch Robz still, but would go for nearly anyone.

[ashersky]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Replying as I catch up.

Another post tying robz to Faust specifically.

[ashersky]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

[ashersky]

What's the Awa case, really?  That he's Awaclus? 

That claim is poopy, though.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.10

Robz888 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky
Awaclus (5): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Calamitas, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, faust, Awaclus
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 1,5 hours app.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Robz

I think that is only three on Robz though

[EFHW]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

What's the scumtell?

[ashersky]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

What's the scumtell?

If you have time, read a Day 1 of M10 for how Robz feels about newbies when he is town.

(If you don't have time, spoiler: he does not believe in rewarding newbies with survival.)

[ashersky]

Gkrieg feels townish compared to other wagons.

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg feels townish compared to other wagons.

What does that mean?

[mcmcsalot]

Okay lets look at faust

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Okay so look, don't tell others who we should look at! (for clarity faust does go on to make a gkrieg case much much later.)

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Oh you mean since you did it too and have had a town read on EFHW all game.


It is next that faust makes his gkrieg case and at the end says I am not quite sure if I am just having confirmation bias so what does everyone else think. Which hey at least he finally made a case but it still seemed like you won't stick by it if other people don't like it, which is scummy in my opinion.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Robz

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am here briefly and out of the three want to stay on robz.

[Robz888]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

Why is this a scumtell?

[Robz888]

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

What's the scumtell?

If you have time, read a Day 1 of M10 for how Robz feels about newbies when he is town.

(If you don't have time, spoiler: he does not believe in rewarding newbies with survival.)

Maybe I've gone soft in my old age!

[EFHW]

Weird that the gkrieg lynch isn't happening, given so many people expressed willingness to vote him. A possible sign he is scum. If it's not going to happen, I'll switch my vote to Robz.

[Robz888]

vote: gkrieg

[Robz888]

Purely to save myself

[Robz888]

Anybody down for a Roadrunner quicklynch?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Anybody down for a Roadrunner quicklynch?

This reeks of desperation.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Which isn't necessarily scummy at this point but I think the selection of RR is.

[Robz888]

Anybody down for a Roadrunner quicklynch?

This reeks of desperation.

Yes, because I'm actually desperate here.

[ashersky]

Gkrieg feels townish compared to other wagons.

What does that mean?

That you seem townier than Robz and Awaclus.

[ashersky]

Anybody down for a Roadrunner quicklynch?

I will point out that Faust last mentioned RR as an acceptable lynch candidate.

That's lots of love going on.

[Calamitas]

I still think we should go for awa here. The probability of having a 1-shot-rb in this game is about 0.33 if I haven't screwed up the maths completely. His implied softclaim of the UB is still bad and it's not like the 1-shot-rb is very great utility for town anyways.

[gkrieg13]

Weird that the gkrieg lynch isn't happening, given so many people expressed willingness to vote him. A possible sign he is scum. If it's not going to happen, I'll switch my vote to Robz.

Almost the same amount of people expressed willingness to vote for Robz, just no one really pointed it out.

[Robz888]

I still think we should go for awa here. The probability of having a 1-shot-rb in this game is about 0.33 if I haven't screwed up the maths completely. His implied softclaim of the UB is still bad and it's not like the 1-shot-rb is very great utility for town anyways.

I also think this, but people sort of deserted the wagon.

[Robz888]

I guess they didn't. Back to vote: awaclus

I will lynch literally anyone except Joseph

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

[Robz888]

We are crushing toward a No Lynch.

[Robz888]

People voting for Faust and gkrieg and no one have to pick me or awaclus, I think

[ashersky]

I'm around.

[Robz888]

I'm around.

Hey ash. Vote for awaclus so we have a lynch. Okay?

[ashersky]

I'm around.

Hey ash. Vote for awaclus so we have a lynch. Okay?

Or you could vote for Robz.

[Robz888]

I'm around.

Hey ash. Vote for awaclus so we have a lynch. Okay?

Or you could vote for Robz.

It's crossed my mind but didn't you say No Lynch isn't the worst thing in this setup?

[gkrieg13]

How can there be so many people viewing the page but no one voting?

[Robz888]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

[ashersky]

I'm around.

Hey ash. Vote for awaclus so we have a lynch. Okay?

Or you could vote for Robz.

It's crossed my mind but didn't you say No Lynch isn't the worst thing in this setup?

On Day 1, with an even number of players and a UB, no lynch is not the worst thing that can happen, no.  That's just my opinion.

Having had the UB claim is slightly unfortunate -- I think scum shoots outside the UB (since he's harmless) looking for PRs or stronger town players.  Then they shoot the UB when they know what he inherited, if it isn't 1-shot.

[faust]

I'm here. What's going on? Why are we not lynching gkrieg?

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

[ashersky]

I'm here. What's going on? Why are we not lynching gkrieg?

I think because he's towny?

Would you rather lynch your partner or Awaclus?

[gkrieg13]

Well we could now get a lynch on Awaclus

[gkrieg13]

Also it seems strange that we are the only 4 around at deadline when there are so many people watching the thread.

[faust]

Is something going to happen if I vote for RR? Because I don't really want to lynch either of Robz and Awaclus.

[ashersky]

I think Awaclus is not a good lynch.

[ashersky]

Is something going to happen if I vote for RR? Because I don't really want to lynch either of Robz and Awaclus.

I think No Lynch is going to happen.  That's a thing.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Back for a bit

[Robz888]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

[Awaclus]

Let's just lynch Robz.

[faust]

Back for a bit

Vote gkrieg.

[Robz888]

I will say that both mcmc and EFHW were online just a minute ago, I saw them in the Who's Online page. They were reading this thread. Neither has appeared. Both really need to move their votes.

[Robz888]

Is something going to happen if I vote for RR? Because I don't really want to lynch either of Robz and Awaclus.

I would lynch RR but there ain't enough ppl.

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[ashersky]

There aren't enough of us around the lynch anyone outside of the two major wagons, right?

Like, we couldn't get seven on Calamitas now.

[faust]

I won't lynch Awaclus because it's a waste of our UB if he's town.

[ashersky]

vote: Robz

That's L-2.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

[ashersky]

I won't lynch Awaclus because it's a waste of our UB if he's town.

That's fine.

Vote Robz.

[Robz888]

vote: Robz

You're taking your revenge, aren't you?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Back for a bit

Vote gkrieg.

No

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

Scummy.

[faust]

I won't lynch Awaclus because it's a waste of our UB if he's town.

That's fine.

Vote Robz.

I might.

[gkrieg13]

I don't really want to lynch Awaclus that much here either.  I don't feel like he has been super scummy.

[Robz888]

I have this great idea, why doesn't everyone twiddle their thumbs for the next six minutes?

[gkrieg13]

We actually might get a lynch on Robz at this point.

Especially if mcmcsalot stops by

[faust]

Vote: RR

[The_Wine_Merchant]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

Scummy.

Why? And why do you always say things are scummy without saying why they are scummy? It just means the other person has to spend a post asking why the next time they see it.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: RR

Really...  There is no way we have enough people around for that.

[Robz888]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

I sort of already made it... you're playing pretty hard for a newbie, but you seem to think "pick someone and push them hard for a lynch" is what you should be doing, which is exactly what I thought I should do in my first scum game, Mafia 2.

[Calamitas]

Our UB is already wasted since he is outed. Scum can just shoot him down.

[faust]

Vote: RR

Really...  There is no way we have enough people around for that.

Well you aren't happening, and it's not like there is much else to do.

[Robz888]

Vote: RoadRunner

[Robz888]

Come on, all the cool people are doing it.

[faust]

Our UB is already wasted since he is outed. Scum can just shoot him down.

Causing our PRs to live through the night, yes.

[Calamitas]

Insanity. vote: robz

[ashersky]

Even if faust votes Robz, it's only L-1.

The faustRobz bromance is sticking out so much it's got to be a scum ploy to be too scummy to be scum.

[ashersky]

Insanity. vote: robz

That's L1 i believe.

[Robz888]

Even if faust votes Robz, it's only L-1.

The faustRobz bromance is sticking out so much it's got to be a scum ploy to be too scummy to be scum.

If I were scum I would not have played this day like this. You know that.

[Calamitas]

Our UB is already wasted since he is outed. Scum can just shoot him down.

Causing our PRs to live through the night, yes.

After the first PR falls they shoot him down. Doesn't matter whether that is a rb or smth. else

[Calamitas]

Guys, we still can make awa happen. Ash, gkrieg, faust and I can still change.

[gkrieg13]

Even if faust votes Robz, it's only L-1.

The faustRobz bromance is sticking out so much it's got to be a scum ploy to be too scummy to be scum.

I kind of agree with this.

[faust]

Yes,sorry.

Vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

Guys, we still can make awa happen. Ash, gkrieg, faust and I can still change.

Robz is a way better lynch

[ashersky]

@Wine...

You want the case on you for future games so you can know how not to seem scummy.  That's either subconscious guilt as a scum player this game or just general scumminess for possible future scum rolls.

So it was a scummy thing to want.

[Robz888]

Yes,sorry.

Vote: Robz

I was town.

[gkrieg13]

Thank goodness.

[Robz888]

Shame on you all.

[Calamitas]

Guys, we still can make awa happen. Ash, gkrieg, robz and I can still change.

Fixed, but doesn't matter anymore.

[Robz888]

So many sads.

[gkrieg13]

@Wine...

You want the case on you for future games so you can know how not to seem scummy.  That's either subconscious guilt as a scum player this game or just general scumminess for possible future scum rolls.

So it was a scummy thing to want.

I don't think it is super scummy to want.  I don't think we should give it to him though.

[faust]

Yes,sorry.

Vote: Robz

I was town.

I feared that.

But now that we know, it hopefully helps us find the scums.

[Robz888]

No Lynch is even okay in this setup, y'all needed to kill me that badly?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

@Wine...

You want the case on you for future games so you can know how not to seem scummy.  That's either subconscious guilt as a scum player this game or just general scumminess for possible future scum rolls.

So it was a scummy thing to want.

I want to know how to avoid being misread as mafia when I am town again.

[Robz888]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

[ashersky]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

You are always thinking of ways to switch things up, man.

Didn't you claim VT?  You were always a proponent of lynching D1 VT claims, too.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yes,sorry.

Vote: Robz

I was town.

I feared that.

But now that we know, it hopefully helps us find the scums.

This is weird.

[Calamitas]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

The lack of info D2 is bad though.

[Robz888]

Scum: Wine Merchant, awaclus, very probably either faust or gkrieg but not both

Not getting particularly scummy vibes from ash, I think scum ash wouldn't have gone after me here

[ashersky]

@Wine...

You want the case on you for future games so you can know how not to seem scummy.  That's either subconscious guilt as a scum player this game or just general scumminess for possible future scum rolls.

So it was a scummy thing to want.

I want to know how to avoid being misread as mafia when I am town again.

That's what mafia says when they mean they don't want to be correctly read as scum when they are scum.

[faust]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

@Wine...

You want the case on you for future games so you can know how not to seem scummy.  That's either subconscious guilt as a scum player this game or just general scumminess for possible future scum rolls.

So it was a scummy thing to want.

I want to know how to avoid being misread as mafia when I am town again.

That's what mafia says when they mean they don't want to be correctly read as scum when they are scum.

Huh?

[Robz888]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

Which is why I never claim VT unless I'm actually VT!

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

You're taking your revenge, aren't you?

Not entirely.  I also think you will constantly be suspected and that could continue the confusion we are having today into all the next days as well.

[mcmcsalot]

ugh I would have rather lynched awa. Sorry Robz, blame kaitlin.

Also aren't there 12 hours till deadline. Am i crazy or did we used to lynch with like 2 hours left all the time.

ppe: 8 gosh you guys type fast

[ashersky]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

Which is why I never claim VT unless I'm actually VT!

Or scum.  I'm fairly sure you've claimed VT as scum.  Maybe even on D1.

Still, you were the right lynch today, even if you weren't the correct one.

[Robz888]

ugh I would have rather lynched awa. Sorry Robz, blame kaitlin.

Also aren't there 12 hours till deadline. Am i crazy or did we used to lynch with like 2 hours left all the time.

ppe: 8 gosh you guys type fast

No deadline was 4 minutes ago, they lynched me with like 30 seconds left.

[Robz888]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

Which is why I never claim VT unless I'm actually VT!

Or scum.  I'm fairly sure you've claimed VT as scum.  Maybe even on D1.

Still, you were the right lynch today, even if you weren't the correct one.

In the journalism business we call this "Fake, but accurate."

[faust]

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

Which is why I never claim VT unless I'm actually VT!

Or scum.  I'm fairly sure you've claimed VT as scum.  Maybe even on D1.

Still, you were the right lynch today, even if you weren't the correct one.

Not the lynch we need, but the one we deserve.

[EFHW]

Insanity. vote: robz

That's L1 i believe.

You had a non bolded vote earlier.  Not sure if that was intentional.

[ashersky]

The jakeirony is that we did exactly what he feared -- mislynch with a rushed deadline lynch (assuming Robz is not trolling here, which I don't think he does).

[LaLight]

Thread Locked.

[LaLight]

Vote Count Final

Robz888 (7): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus, EFHW, Calamitas, faust
Awaclus (2): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): mcmcsalot
Roadrunner7671 (1): Robz888

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

[LaLight]

    hello. it's me again, your unflawed, flawless hostess, GWW. we are going to interrupt me with a live feed of the CD, right now.
   "okay, gang. on the count of three, everyone who's mafia say "i'm mafia." okay? one, two, three!"
    (...)
   "i'm... the universal backup"
   okay. wow. to recap, one of the department heads has just claimed to be the universal backup, and is now looking at one of our cameras, as if to say "whatcha gonna do about it?" that is a good question, eyes of that department head. quite a controversial move.
   it seems as though several of the department heads are becoming light-headed from the stress and need to be excused. they have been replaced, as per provision set by rule 91-b of the Scouncil CD codex, as determined by the immortal SupraScouncil of snelders.
   uh oh. as per rule 2-c, the Scouncilfolk need to decide on someone to kill soon, else the sneddites get an opportunity to strike without a lynch. wait, what? that's dumb.
   alright. everyone has started yelling now, and most of them are also running around, really fast. okay... it seems as though... wow! there it is! the final vote of day 1, dear viewers. the department of toenails is getting the knife! he is calmly but resentfully submitting himself, and... eouh. he has been stabbed, and is now melting into a puddle of toenails. hm.

Robz888 has been lynched! He was the head of the department of toenails, Vanilla Townie

N1 starts now and ends Mon, 9th of January at 12pm forum time. Night actions deadline is in 47 hours.


Thread is not physically locked, but will be when Schadd locks it. Posting is prohibited!

[schadd]

    greaseth signing on. it has been a dank and stormy night for our snaddites, citizens of aegence. as the Scouncilfolk meandered back into the atrium of zatrium, they found the decapitated body of one of their fellow department heads on a table; written in blood on the floor is "compute the probability of this from the given conditions, nerd!"
    interesting. clearly, this guy didn't melt into anything. so it must have just been the toenails guy. odd, but perhaps not surprising.

Calamitas has been killed in the night! He was the head of the department of The Zoo, a Vanilla Townie.


Day 2 starts!


Vote Count 2.ε
Not voting (10): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, Awaclus, EFHW, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, faust, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 starts now and ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time. this is in 168 hours

[faust]

Uh. Calamitas is an interesting choice considering that he was the key figure in making the Robz lynch happen. My best guess is PR hunting?

[faust]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

[faust]

Vote: mcmc for starters.

[faust]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

[EFHW]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

[EFHW]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

I don't know if this argument holds for mcmc.  He wasn't just idly letting the lynch go by, he actively decided not to be on the wagon and yelled a bit about it, too, iirc.

[EFHW]

Uh. Calamitas is an interesting choice considering that he was the key figure in making the Robz lynch happen. My best guess is PR hunting?

He was?  It looks like he was on Awaclus, and advocating an Awaclus lynch, until near the end, when he switched to Robz.

[faust]

Uh. Calamitas is an interesting choice considering that he was the key figure in making the Robz lynch happen. My best guess is PR hunting?

He was?  It looks like he was on Awaclus, and advocating an Awaclus lynch, until near the end, when he switched to Robz.

Well, if he didn't switch, there would have been no lynch.

[gkrieg13]

I'm probably going to get to this game later this week.  Too many other things going on ATM.

[faust]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

I don't know if this argument holds for mcmc.  He wasn't just idly letting the lynch go by, he actively decided not to be on the wagon and yelled a bit about it, too, iirc.

I think you are referring to this post:

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

WHAT THREE WAGONS???

Vote count from 3 posts earlier

Vote Count 1.9

Robz888 (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant
Awaclus (3): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): faust
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 15 hours.

you mean the robz/awc "wagons" with 3 vote on it...or the gkrieg one which I'M CURRENTLY ONE OF TWO PEOPLE...

If you want people to vote for someone MAKE A CASE. If i like it i will state that and why and vote. I won't "just vote for someone!"

Like am I going crazy here or does noone want to do actual scumhunting since its day one and its hard...

Yes there is yelling. There is however no word about having a town read on either Robz or Awaclus. He's not pushing against these wagons at all; all he does is complain that there is no case.

Anyway even if he had opposed the wagon strongly, I don't see why this would make my argument not hold.

[Joseph2302]

Well, so we had a very odd lynch followed by a weird choice of night kill.

And in all that, 2 VTs are gone. And so I've still not become a PR.

[Calamitas]

i'm a spoooky ghoooost

[faust]

↓

Um, you're dead n stuff.

[schadd]

What's he going to do, modkill me again?

[faust]

In the interest of transparency, Calamitas' post was about how he voted for Robz because he doesn't like no lynches. I think. Did not memorize it very well.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

Why would they be ok with a no lynch? Isn't that just one more person that they have to NK and one more day or night cycle that they have to survive through?

Or is it that the lack of information would be more hurtful to town than the harm mafia would incur from having an additional cycle?

[faust]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

Why would they be ok with a no lynch? Isn't that just one more person that they have to NK and one more day or night cycle that they have to survive through?

Or is it that the lack of information would be more hurtful to town than the harm mafia would incur from having an additional cycle?

Well if no lynch was bad for scum, we would do it. Lack of information is bad. We get no new information, causing a repetition of the same arguments and the game stalling.

Also they might have hoped for an Awaclus lynch, which - if he's town - would have been much better for them.

[Joseph2302]

So an important question is this: Why did scum choose to kill Calamitas?

Usual targets would be the traditionally really good town people e.g. faust/gkrieg/ash

Calamitas is a good player, but I'd have expected one of those 3 to be NKed

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

[Awaclus]

In the interest of transparency, Calamitas' post was about how he voted for Robz because he doesn't like no lynches. I think. Did not memorize it very well.

Yeah, I think it was something like that too.

[Awaclus]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

Where did you claim?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

[Awaclus]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

Where did you claim?

In this thread, when there was like an hour left and I was the biggest wagon. Too lazy to look that post up, but for reference, I'm still the 1-shot Roleblocker. It's probably better if I don't claim whether or not I've used the shot yet though, right?

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

Where did you claim?

In this thread, when there was like an hour left and I was the biggest wagon. Too lazy to look that post up, but for reference, I'm still the 1-shot Roleblocker. It's probably better if I don't claim whether or not I've used the shot yet though, right?

Probably best yes.
If you tell us that you've used it, you probably get NKed to make the UB useless.

[Joseph2302]

In the interest of transparency, Calamitas' post was about how he voted for Robz because he doesn't like no lynches. I think. Did not memorize it very well.

Yeah, I think it was something like that too.

That was about right. Basically he didn't want the no lynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

A lynch is normally better than a no lynch, even in this setup (I think). And it's easy for you to say how terrible the lynch was after the fact, but that's not helpful and it's an easy thing to say.

[faust]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

[Roadrunner7671]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

But I know where my anger went. I wasn't happy with the lynch. Maybe because I was on it, there was more disappointment than anger, but I certainly wasn't happy with it. But, man. Anger doesn't have to go anywhere. For things that don't really matter, it just dissipates. And I think you are faking it or at least embellishing and enhancing it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I mean you said you are really pissed. And that we were the worst and that you wanted to rant. You sound like someone rear-ended you, called your mom a dirty name and then sued you for damages. Not that someone got mislynched.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

But I know where my anger went. I wasn't happy with the lynch. Maybe because I was on it, there was more disappointment than anger, but I certainly wasn't happy with it. But, man. Anger doesn't have to go anywhere. For things that don't really matter, it just dissipates. And I think you are faking it or at least embellishing and enhancing it.

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I mean you said you are really pissed. And that we were the worst and that you wanted to rant. You sound like someone rear-ended you, called your mom a dirty name and then sued you for damages. Not that someone got mislynched.

No just my inteligance felt like it got steamrolled not my car.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

Who is the easy D2 scum lynch? I must have missed that part.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

Who is the easy D2 scum lynch? I must have missed that part.

Awaclus's claim is total crap but then again it could be that your just defending your partner because your one of my top 4 scum reads buddy.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Faust

You can check my case from yesterday.

Also how are you so sure jake isn't mafia? I mean I give in that this is how jake plays but that doesn't make him towny. In fact everyone saying "Jake seems like he's really scumhunting and trying this game" I think that could be due to him being scum and knowing what alignment everyone is, it's much easier to play that way contrary to people thinking it's always harder to be scum.

I do think it's more likely you are scum trying to use jake as town cred, knowing he usually gets lynched and would flip town, because you are so certain he's Town and support him even though he's hurting town and that I think the cases people have made on him have legitimacy.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

[mcmcsalot]

At TWM, maybe its because I think the robz lynch was a crappy lynch and a result of our D1 being terrible and having very few legitimate cases being made. I thought Robz was town since the entire soft!claim issue.

Oh also here is my case repeated for people who didn't pay attention to it yesterday since it was too late.

Okay lets look at faust

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Okay so look, don't tell others who we should look at! (for clarity faust does go on to make a gkrieg case much much later.)

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Oh you mean since you did it too and have had a town read on EFHW all game.


It is next that faust makes his gkrieg case and at the end says I am not quite sure if I am just having confirmation bias so what does everyone else think. Which hey at least he finally made a case but it still seemed like you won't stick by it if other people don't like it, which is scummy in my opinion.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

And I am sorry if you feel that I am starting a fight with you or anyone else. That hasn't ever been my intention, but I have given a read and presented a case. It was on you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

So you can have multiple days to present and make cases. But I am supposed to start doing so hours after the start of day?

[EFHW]

Uh. Calamitas is an interesting choice considering that he was the key figure in making the Robz lynch happen. My best guess is PR hunting?

He was?  It looks like he was on Awaclus, and advocating an Awaclus lynch, until near the end, when he switched to Robz.

Well, if he didn't switch, there would have been no lynch.

Oh, I see.  I read it as you saying he led the town in deciding to lynch Robz.

[EFHW]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

I don't know if this argument holds for mcmc.  He wasn't just idly letting the lynch go by, he actively decided not to be on the wagon and yelled a bit about it, too, iirc.

...

Yes there is yelling. There is however no word about having a town read on either Robz or Awaclus. He's not pushing against these wagons at all; all he does is complain that there is no case.

Anyway even if he had opposed the wagon strongly, I don't see why this would make my argument not hold.

Here I read you as saying that he hung back and passively let the town do their thing.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

Not only do I rarely notice when the deadlines are, I also don't like to do that because if I leave an absent minded vote on someone that makes them a much more likely candidate for a dumb scramble lynch.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

So you can have multiple days to present and make cases. But I am supposed to start doing so hours after the start of day?

Didn't say you had to do it today or now just sometime

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

And I am sorry if you feel that I am starting a fight with you or anyone else. That hasn't ever been my intention, but I have given a read and presented a case. It was on you.

What case and what have i done that's been scummy. lol

[The_Wine_Merchant]

This.

And you said that the reason you are voting me is because I am not making cases and such like I was yesterday. So shouldn't you wait for a couple of days to see if I make those cases or not before voting? You can't have it both ways.

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

[EFHW]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Why not?

And I don't agree with all the bemoaning of the Robz lynch. We needed a lynch and doubt was going to swirl about him constantly until we knew his alignment for sure.  This was a run of the mill imperfect something short of random Day 1 lynch, imo.

It also isn't true that no cases were made.  I made a case against gkrieg as did faust, TWM made a case against Robz, mcmc made a case against faust, Jake made a case against someone (Robz?). Maybe there were others I'm not remembering now. It is true there wasn't much against Awaclus. Why didn't the people who didn't want a Robz lynch make a better case against Awaclus (assuming there is one there to be made)?

So I agree with TWM that Jake's outrage seems forced.  His campaign against Awaclus seems founded on basically not liking his claim, which is pretty thin. Let's see if he votes me now!

[EFHW]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

Not only do I rarely notice when the deadlines are, I also don't like to do that because if I leave an absent minded vote on someone that makes them a much more likely candidate for a dumb scramble lynch.

I feel like maybe you are purposely misunderstanding me.  Why wouldn't you pay attention to deadlines? Usually people like to have a vote down when they make their last post before a deadline.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

Not only do I rarely notice when the deadlines are, I also don't like to do that because if I leave an absent minded vote on someone that makes them a much more likely candidate for a dumb scramble lynch.

Usually people like to have a vote down when they make their last post before a deadline. And it seems to me that you usually are voting for someone.

[EFHW]

sorry about the double post.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

[EFHW]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Good point.  vote: Jake

[ashersky]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

I will say this YET AGAIN.  Extra fields are not required.  Just use "Post by: username" in the find field.  It filters perfectly.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well your point about RR is pretty good as well. I went back and checked and he didn't have a real vote on anyone all game. He had a couple that were really early on Jake. When I noticed his odd interactions with Jake I checked to see if he had been voting, but I guess those early votes lead me to believe he was voting more often.

I think I might go look at other RR games as town/mafia and see if there is a correlation as this seems potentially significant.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

I will say this YET AGAIN.  Extra fields are not required.  Just use "Post by: username" in the find field.  It filters perfectly.

When I use this (command F on my mac) the only thing that comes up is your post.

[ashersky]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

I will say this YET AGAIN.  Extra fields are not required.  Just use "Post by: username" in the find field.  It filters perfectly.

When I use this (command F on my mac) the only thing that comes up is your post.

Did you use it on the Print screen?  (button at top, right of page)

[ashersky]

The Robz lynch was fantastic -- the best possible mislynch.  VT is the best role to have to lose, Robz is too dangerous to leave alive if he's not an IC, it gave us a lot of fantastic interactions at the end.

Anyone decrying the lynch as bad is bad.

Also, vote: faust

[mcmcsalot]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Good point.  vote: Jake

So at this point while I still think jake is acting scummy, I think Faust is acting scummier and I don't see scum Faust/jake.

Well I guess I keep assuming Faust is scum trying to get town credit for defending a town!jake, it's probably equally likely that Faust is just defending his scum partner. I would lynch either of them.

[EFHW]

faust - Jake - RR scum team?! 

[mcmcsalot]

faust - Jake - RR scum team?!

Very very plausible I do think rr's posts about not paying attention to deadlines and sort of nonchalant attitude is usually one scum takes after they have been called out as being too defensive as scum. Has rr lost any games recently as scum that might make him take this approach?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Tried to get a representative of mafia and town for RR.

M88 - Roadrunner as Town - Lynched Day1 - votes jake as a joke; votes jake again; votes faust; votes jake; votes sa during Day1

M89 - Roadrunner as Town - Died - votes gkrieg as a joke; votes jake; votes mcG; votes jake; votes jake

M85 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ss, votes joseph as jokes; votes playername; votes iguana day1

M77 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ww, votes chairs, votes ss, votes joseph, votes joseph, votes gkrieg

So that ended up not being as useful as I had hoped. Went through four games and didn't find one where RR is withheld his vote. Maybe there are others, but going through those four gave me a headache.

[Roadrunner7671]

I just didn't vote so much, I don't see why this is such a big deal. Had I been at the deadline, I would've voted for Robz when he suggested a RR lynch, if not sooner. I feel like you guys are grasping at the straws here in a big way.

[mcmcsalot]

I just didn't vote so much, I don't see why this is such a big deal. Had I been at the deadline, I would've voted for Robz when he suggested a RR lynch, if not sooner. I feel like you guys are grasping at the straws here in a big way.

So had you been around you would have just omgused robz for suggesting your lynch instead of analyzing the events going down and voting someone you thought was scum, makes sense for what scum wants to do.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

I will say this YET AGAIN.  Extra fields are not required.  Just use "Post by: username" in the find field.  It filters perfectly.

When I use this (command F on my mac) the only thing that comes up is your post.

Did you use it on the Print screen?  (button at top, right of page)

Thanks. Didn't even know that was a thing. But I added a shuffle IT name anyways

[Roadrunner7671]

I just didn't vote so much, I don't see why this is such a big deal. Had I been at the deadline, I would've voted for Robz when he suggested a RR lynch, if not sooner. I feel like you guys are grasping at the straws here in a big way.

So had you been around you would have just omgused robz for suggesting your lynch instead of analyzing the events going down and voting someone you thought was scum, makes sense for what scum wants to do.

No, I would've voted Robz because he was pretty much the only wagon with about 5 minutes left in the day, and because people who were throwing their votes everywhere could've used a kick in the butt. Thanks for twisting my words around, but I don't recall seeing you at the deadline.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

but I don't recall seeing you at the deadline.

Burned!

[EFHW]

Tried to get a representative of mafia and town for RR.

M88 - Roadrunner as Town - Lynched Day1 - votes jake as a joke; votes jake again; votes faust; votes jake; votes sa during Day1

M89 - Roadrunner as Town - Died - votes gkrieg as a joke; votes jake; votes mcG; votes jake; votes jake

M85 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ss, votes joseph as jokes; votes playername; votes iguana day1

M77 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ww, votes chairs, votes ss, votes joseph, votes joseph, votes gkrieg

So that ended up not being as useful as I had hoped. Went through four games and didn't find one where RR is withheld his vote. Maybe there are others, but going through those four gave me a headache.

M74 was the one where he shadowed Awaclus all game. It does look like he has been a more frequent voter in past games.  Were these all from Day 1?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Tried to get a representative of mafia and town for RR.

M88 - Roadrunner as Town - Lynched Day1 - votes jake as a joke; votes jake again; votes faust; votes jake; votes sa during Day1

M89 - Roadrunner as Town - Died - votes gkrieg as a joke; votes jake; votes mcG; votes jake; votes jake

M85 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ss, votes joseph as jokes; votes playername; votes iguana day1

M77 - Roadrunner as Mafia - votes ww, votes chairs, votes ss, votes joseph, votes joseph, votes gkrieg

So that ended up not being as useful as I had hoped. Went through four games and didn't find one where RR is withheld his vote. Maybe there are others, but going through those four gave me a headache.

M74 was the one where he shadowed Awaclus all game. It does look like he has been a more frequent voter in past games.  Were these all from Day 1?

Yes. All Day1. All had a fair amount of early votes, but all had at least a few late day votes. Which is what was missing here.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

This.

And you said that the reason you are voting me is because I am not making cases and such like I was yesterday. So shouldn't you wait for a couple of days to see if I make those cases or not before voting? You can't have it both ways.

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

That's not my case. A basic synopsis is that you have completely changed your play style almost like you got advice from possible partners (Awa and asher) on how to play a certain way as well as  how you have not played like any other new player I've seen possibly from some coaching.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Also your not my top proirty to make a case so it will not be immediately.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That's not my case. A basic synopsis is that you have completely changed your play style almost like you got advice from possible partners (Awa and asher) on how to play a certain way as well as  how you have not played like any other new player I've seen possibly from some coaching.

This is what you said:

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

I asked you to expand. You said this:

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

and

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

saying that compared to Day1 I have changed my play style from learning and making solid points and that I should be making cases and telling scum reads. And you say that I was told by scum partners to make these changes. So they told me to stop learning and making solid point and to instead be unhelpful and get into fights? Are you serious? What scum mates say: stop being helpful and instead try and get under people's skin so they will want to vote for you?

And look, I was already making cases and telling scum reads Day1, and aside from this discussion with you certainly haven't picked any fights or been unhelpful.

You don't know what you are talking about and are making it up as you go along in a panic because I have been scum-reading you.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.1

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
mcmcsalot (1): faust

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Alright so this is a case on awaclus

Ok so awa starts the game with some rvs and not a ton of posting which is not weird but then the joseph wagon starts and that's when things get fun.

Oh you have an actual list too. Vote: Joseph

So this is his vote on Joseph where he makes fun of his reads list

Can't we just lynch Joseph already? That way we could start playing the xkcd game right away.

So then here he try's to push Joseph's lynch and kind of being dismissive to the game. (also could be hoping for a quick mislynch( Happy that didn't happen to our PR))

If you don't want to play this game, then don't

I want to play this game and I want to play the xkcd game and I want to lynch you in this game because you're scum. Lynching you would accomplish all of those goals, so it would be great.

So here he is again dismissive of this game and again hoping for a quick mislynch .

So then comes the whole soft claiming debacle.

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

So at first when i was making a robz case I was looking at this as it was a robz scum tell but at the end of D-1 and over the night I was thinking about it and the more i thought about it the more it looked like awa was intentionally fake soft claiming to try to get Joseph lynched D-1. What i realized was that robz is too good of a player to miss a soft claim even when the rest of us did.

The Robz lynch was fantastic -- the best possible mislynch.  VT is the best role to have to lose, Robz is too dangerous to leave alive if he's not an IC, it gave us a lot of fantastic interactions at the end.

Anyone decrying the lynch as bad is bad.

Also, vote: faust

See even asher say's so. I also read some of awa's games to pass the time and saw that awa could pull this off and if i was scum i would try to do this too because it's a really smart scum play. With that alone i think he should be lynched but let's look at some other things he's done as the game went on too.

Okay. I thought it was pretty clear that Awaclus was secretly soft-claiming UB--that was the purpose of my exchange with him earlier. That's why I kept my vote on Joseph.

Since Awaclus is voting for me, it seems that's not the case.

Vote: Awaclus for the false implication.

I thought you were secretly soft-claiming UB! That's why I voted for you because it started to look like it would be better to have you claim after all.

So after a while robz confess's to thinking that awa was soft claiming Ub but instead of pushing it off as a misunderstanding he trys to pin the whole debacle on robz( Another confirmed town) therefore making robz look like scum even though he wasn't.

Read Replies number 342 through 354.

This is post 338

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

This is post 342

There's only one UB, claiming it would be terrible scum play. It means Joseph is telling the truth (unless he royally screwed up and gets counterclaimed).

This is post 354

You know, I think there's a good chance Joseph thought he was going down anyway and just wanted to out the UB. Let's not give him the luxury of that. Vote: Joseph

Like I said, I wasn't paying attention.

So then after the body decides with robz on this matter awa takes a crack at another defense to push it away from him by saying that he wasn't paying attention to the game which is why he thought robz was soft claiming. What a ton of crap. Shown by the detail in some of his earlier posts where he lays out specific post numbers he was clearly paying attention and was now trying to push a failed scheme onto a excuse.

Now this redirect keeps up for a few pages when we get this.

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Gkrieg is definitely a better place to look for scum than me.

and this

Because I'm not scum.

Now here he trys ANOTHER EXCUSE. This time he try's to deflect the towns attention onto another player in Big G and unfortunately it works. But this clearly shows a pattern of excuses of why he is not town even though the evidence shows he is.

Now he doesn't post for days after that because he was trying to not bring anymore attention onto himself and let other town players get lynched. He doesn't come back until after robz is being lynched where he then proceeds to heavily push a robz lynch.

But then oh my he does something great. HE CLAIMS!!!  He then claims a 1 shot roleblocker. Now I believe that this is a false attempt to again establish himself as a town Pr. Also the claim is easy to claim as scum becasue you can just say you haven't used the shot yet and he does do exactly that in D-2.

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

Where did you claim?

In this thread, when there was like an hour left and I was the biggest wagon. Too lazy to look that post up, but for reference, I'm still the 1-shot Roleblocker. It's probably better if I don't claim whether or not I've used the shot yet though, right?

Here he shows how he can't confirm that he is the 1 shot Roleblocker.

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

I actually think Mafia wouldn't lynch a claimed PR there, just because they knew my claim was true. It's easier to mislynch someone else.

Then theirs this because theirs nothing like a little reasserting that you a town right?

In conclusion I believe that with all this evidence that awa should be the clear lynch choice and we should therefore lynch him.

[ashersky]

You do realize that Awaclus's claim is a stupid one to lie about, right?

[faust]

Also in the interest of rereading you all should add shuffle it usernames asap!

I will say this YET AGAIN.  Extra fields are not required.  Just use "Post by: username" in the find field.  It filters perfectly.

But the print screen is ugly!

[faust]

The Robz lynch was fantastic -- the best possible mislynch.  VT is the best role to have to lose, Robz is too dangerous to leave alive if he's not an IC, it gave us a lot of fantastic interactions at the end.

Anyone decrying the lynch as bad is bad.

Also, vote: faust

So if the Robz lynch is so great, and I made it happen, why vote for me?

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

[faust]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

[faust]

Let's see what mcmc has on me. Hoping I don't screw up the quotes.

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

Do I need to understand this? If someone behaves differently from how I expect them to as scum, then for sure that is a sign of them being town. This is how basically any town read is formed.

[...]

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

So scum!me thought we would get a lynch like what? Two days into the game? This is stupid. Clearly I thought Winey made a good point and acted accordingly. I would probably be more consistent as scum, because it's harder to flip around your reads then.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Not sure where this is going, but you clearly did not understand what I was saying. This explains why lurker lynches are sometimes necessary, not why they are bad.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Please explain your scum narrative for this.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

Yes. I had other things to do. But as scum, why make a post at all? It would only incriminate me if Robz flips town.

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

Yes. So what?

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

So ultimately this boils down to, you're voting for me because of a theory disagreement. I still don't think Jake's suggestion caused anything bad, and have not seen any evidence provided that it did. It may not have been necessary, but I liked that Jake took a more active and pushing role in the game and wanted to encourage that approach.

This case is a lot of nothingness.

[Awaclus]

So this is his vote on Joseph where he makes fun of his reads list

Of course I would make fun of his reads list. It was D1, hardly after RVS. There's no way anyone could have had actual reads at that point, so the most likely explanation was that his reads were fabricated.

So then here he try's to push Joseph's lynch and kind of being dismissive to the game. (also could be hoping for a quick mislynch( Happy that didn't happen to our PR))

Do you seriously think I would say that if I was scum hoping for a mislynch? Besides, I wasn't being dismissive, I was just making a joke.

So here he is again dismissive of this game and again hoping for a quick mislynch .

Do you seriously think I would say that if I was scum hoping for a mislynch? Besides, I wasn't being dismissive, I was just making a joke.

So at first when i was making a robz case I was looking at this as it was a robz scum tell but at the end of D-1 and over the night I was thinking about it and the more i thought about it the more it looked like awa was intentionally fake soft claiming to try to get Joseph lynched D-1. What i realized was that robz is too good of a player to miss a soft claim even when the rest of us did.

That's just confirmation bias — the more you wanted it to look like I was softclaiming, the more it started to look like I was softclaiming.

See even asher say's so. I also read some of awa's games to pass the time and saw that awa could pull this off and if i was scum i would try to do this too because it's a really smart scum play. With that alone i think he should be lynched but let's look at some other things he's done as the game went on too.

What exactly? The "soft claim" thing that almost got me lynched and forced me to reveal my role? No, that was not a smart play. It wouldn't have been a smart scum play, and it wasn't a smart town play. (In general it would have been a smart town play simply because of how scummy Joseph was, but then I would have had to keep track of people reacting to Joseph's claim, and I didn't do that)

So after a while robz confess's to thinking that awa was soft claiming Ub but instead of pushing it off as a misunderstanding he trys to pin the whole debacle on robz( Another confirmed town) therefore making robz look like scum even though he wasn't.

Well, what should I have done, lied instead of telling the truth?

So then after the body decides with robz on this matter awa takes a crack at another defense to push it away from him by saying that he wasn't paying attention to the game which is why he thought robz was soft claiming. What a ton of crap. Shown by the detail in some of his earlier posts where he lays out specific post numbers he was clearly paying attention and was now trying to push a failed scheme onto a excuse.

Of course I would defend myself. Defending yourself is the #1 most important thing to do when you're town, especially when you're a town PR. I have never laid out a single specific post number in my entire life, because it takes so much more effort to read a post where someone just lays out post numbers than it takes to write a post where you actually quote the relevant posts. For that same reason, I actually didn't read the post numbers laid out by Robz.

Now here he trys ANOTHER EXCUSE. This time he try's to deflect the towns attention onto another player in Big G and unfortunately it works. But this clearly shows a pattern of excuses of why he is not town even though the evidence shows he is.

Of course I would defend myself. Defending yourself is the #1 most important thing to do when you're town, especially when you're a town PR. I also wasn't trying to deflect the attention to gkrieg, that was all faust's doing.

Now he doesn't post for days after that because he was trying to not bring anymore attention onto himself and let other town players get lynched. He doesn't come back until after robz is being lynched where he then proceeds to heavily push a robz lynch.

Alternative explanation: I didn't post for days because I was paying more attention to things that weren't this game, and there wasn't anything noteworthy going on in this game. Then we started to approach the deadline so I started to prioritize this game more. I wasn't really heavily pushing a Robz lynch either, I was just pushing any lynch at all and Robz seemed like the most likely one to happen at that point.

But then oh my he does something great. HE CLAIMS!!!  He then claims a 1 shot roleblocker. Now I believe that this is a false attempt to again establish himself as a town Pr. Also the claim is easy to claim as scum becasue you can just say you haven't used the shot yet and he does do exactly that in D-2.

I have not said that I haven't used the shot yet. I might or might not have used the shot.

Here he shows how he can't confirm that he is the 1 shot Roleblocker.

No, that's where I was simply asking for advice on how to play given that I am the 1-shot Roleblocker, because I can actually do that now that I've claimed. I don't know how you think I could confirm that I'm the 1-shot Roleblocker anyway; however, it will become confirmed later in the game if there's a mass claim.

Then theirs this because theirs nothing like a little reasserting that you a town right?

*there's

Again, what should I have done, claimed SK like Joseph instead of telling the truth?

[ashersky]

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

Thank for confirming you are not the same alignment as Robz.  I like my vote right where it is.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

[faust]

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

Thank for confirming you are not the same alignment as Robz.  I like my vote right where it is.

You might want to start being useful at some point.

[faust]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

You don't have to tell me that. But do you really think jake was hop-stomping mad about a lynch that: 1. he initially wanted and pushed strongly for 2. Had occurred two real days prior and 3. wasn't all that bad of a lynch as he freely admitted after I called him on his fake emotion?

I feel like he wanted people to think he was really upset by the lynch. Why? Because he felt was partly responsible and felt that he needed to distance himself from it preemptively. Town, I think, doesn't see the need to create distance between the lynch and themselves. Town just want to move on and find the next person who is likely mafia.

[mcmcsalot]

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

Thank for confirming you are not the same alignment as Robz.  I like my vote right where it is.

You might want to start being useful at some point.

But then you might find him scummy, shouldn't he be crazy with his opinions and force anti town plans and argue about things people say instead of give cases. I think he has made his reads clear and will continue to do so.

[mcmcsalot]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

I am afraid to burst your bubble... players emotions and how they act/react to things are what town uses to form rational narratives for players alignments.

[faust]

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

Thank for confirming you are not the same alignment as Robz.  I like my vote right where it is.

You might want to start being useful at some point.

But then you might find him scummy, shouldn't he be crazy with his opinions and force anti town plans and argue about things people say instead of give cases. I think he has made his reads clear and will continue to do so.

I personally don't know anything about ashersky's reads except he thinks I'm scum.

[faust]

Reread mcmc a bit, I don't think there are a lot of scum flags actually. Also his obsession with Jake's "3 people" suggestion was so annoying that I had to quit halfway through.

[faust]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

[ashersky]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

You might want to start being useful at some point.

[ashersky]

You do realize that I can't be Robz' partner?

Thank for confirming you are not the same alignment as Robz.  I like my vote right where it is.

You might want to start being useful at some point.

But then you might find him scummy, shouldn't he be crazy with his opinions and force anti town plans and argue about things people say instead of give cases. I think he has made his reads clear and will continue to do so.

I personally don't know anything about ashersky's reads except he thinks I'm scum.

I've made other reads known.  Namely Joseph, Awa, gkrieg.

I thought Calamitas was scum, not that it matters now.

Jake...man, that guy.  He's hard to read, which helps him as scum and hurts him as town.  Would lynch.

Faust you know.  Would also lynch RR. 

Wine is an interesting character.  Still waiting to see there.

[gkrieg13]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

[faust]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

Why would I have stopped thinking it?

[gkrieg13]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

Why would I have stopped thinking it?

Well looking at how the wagons went down yesterday, I think I come out of it townier.  Plus, you have a long history of tunneling me when I'm town and getting us both killed.

[faust]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

Why would I have stopped thinking it?

Well looking at how the wagons went down yesterday, I think I come out of it townier.  Plus, you have a long history of tunneling me when I'm town and getting us both killed.

I don't really see how you come out townier when I tried to convince people to switch to you towards the end of the day and nobody wanted to do that.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

You don't have to tell me that. But do you really think jake was hop-stomping mad about a lynch that: 1. he initially wanted and pushed strongly for 2. Had occurred two real days prior and 3. wasn't all that bad of a lynch as he freely admitted after I called him on his fake emotion?

I feel like he wanted people to think he was really upset by the lynch. Why? Because he felt was partly responsible and felt that he needed to distance himself from it preemptively. Town, I think, doesn't see the need to create distance between the lynch and themselves. Town just want to move on and find the next person who is likely mafia.

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

[faust]

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

[faust]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

The same could be said about awa and I feel as there's way more scum evidence on awa than Big G

[faust]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

The same could be said about awa and I feel as there's way more scum evidence on awa than Big G

There is stuff about Awaclus that makes me not want to lynch him. I will become clear later on.

[gkrieg13]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

We aren't fighting. I am holding you accountable for what you said and finding you scummy for it and voting you for it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

[EFHW]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

Know?  Do you know Awaclus is town?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

Know?  Do you know Awaclus is town?

I think it is pretty easy to understand what gkrieg is saying here. And he isn't saying that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

In fact I just did the exact same thing:

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Taking faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and extrapolating it without saying so specifically.

[EFHW]

In fact I just did the exact same thing:

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Taking faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and extrapolating it without saying so specifically.

What you did isn't the same at all.  You said "If  .... then... would imply ... or". He said know. I think he was trying imply that he is town and could take that into account, but then slipped and included Awaclus in his knowing.

[EFHW]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

[gkrieg13]

I'm just taking faust at his word for now. 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

[Joseph2302]

I'll try to dedicate time to reread this tomorrow.

[mcmcsalot]

Helooooo? Drunk AMA till I fall asleep.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.2

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
mcmcsalot (1): faust

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[EFHW]

vote: gkrieg

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

[Awaclus]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

No. What happens?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

No. What happens?

You make a "butt" (first three letters) out of u and me. Assume

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

No. What happens?

You make a "butt" (first three letters) out of u and me. Assume

I don't get it. You should probably spell it out for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Don't try to get Jake banned 

[Awaclus]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck -- generally cited when a vote or suspicion is based on reciprocity.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck -- generally cited when a vote or suspicion is based on reciprocity.

Do you not understand what this means?

[faust]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck -- generally cited when a vote or suspicion is based on reciprocity.

But it's not OMGUS since Jake's Awaclus read dates back to way before Awaclus voted for Jake.

I don't get why everyone tries to frame Jake's play as awful when it is pretty obvious that he has made some great progress and he's definitely a more pro-town force than, say, RR.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck -- generally cited when a vote or suspicion is based on reciprocity.

Do you not understand what this means?

rec·i·proc·i·ty
ˌresəˈpräsədē/
noun
the practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit, especially privileges granted by one country or organization to another.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

Um...no. Don't do that. Blatant OMGUS is pretty awful.

I was already voting him one and two I've put a case on him and do believe he is scum so how is that OMGUS?

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck -- generally cited when a vote or suspicion is based on reciprocity.

But it's not OMGUS since Jake's Awaclus read dates back to way before Awaclus voted for Jake.

I don't get why everyone tries to frame Jake's play as awful when it is pretty obvious that he has made some great progress and he's definitely a more pro-town force than, say, RR.

Thank You. I think the people who are voting me don't get that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't get why everyone tries to frame Jake's play as awful when it is pretty obvious that he has made some great progress and he's definitely a more pro-town force than, say, RR.

I would say that you don't understand the reason why I am, I can't speak for the others, voting for him then.

[Awaclus]

Because theirs better choices...like you Vote: Awaclus

So you're scum then. Good to know my vote is on the right person.

[Joseph2302]

I'm serial killer by the way

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm serial killer by the way

Dude stop or I'll try to lynch you just because of how annoying that is no matter your role.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I think I hear excuses and words but no reasons to lynch me.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Did anyone notice how two of my scum reads started to find me scummy after I said that they were scum.

[gkrieg13]

Did anyone notice how two of my scum reads started to find me scummy after I said that they were scum.

I thought it went the other way around.

[Awaclus]

I think I hear excuses and words but no reasons to lynch me.

I don't need reasons to lynch you. You need reasons why I shouldn't lynch you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Did anyone notice how two of my scum reads started to find me scummy after I said that they were scum.

If you are talking about me. That is false, post 896.

This is when I voted for you:

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

This is where you expressed suspicion of me, post 904.

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Which comes first 904 or 896?

[gkrieg13]

Ok, so I have Awaclus, faust, Joseph as town reads, so with 10 people alive, that leaves 3 scum in 6.  Going back and doing some wagon analysis now.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Did anyone notice how two of my scum reads started to find me scummy after I said that they were scum.

If you are talking about me. That is false, post 896.

This is when I voted for you:

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

This is where you expressed suspicion of me, post 904.

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Which comes first 904 or 896?

I said I suppescted u in D-1 before that post. Will post it later

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok, so I have Awaclus, faust, Joseph as town reads, so with 10 people alive, that leaves 3 scum in 6.  Going back and doing some wagon analysis now.

How do u have awa as a town read?

[faust]

ReRead:

Jokey start as expected.

vote: jake
I don't tend to see eye to eye with Joseph all the time, but his wagon has no merit. Especially since it's Joseph. I mean, come on, this is classic Joseph play! He'd act like this regardless of alignment (I think).

Jake, however, has a bunch of Golds. Which I don't like.

This is the first instance of voting for Jake. He also defends Joseph.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

This definitely earns some scum points. Especially with this insistence:

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

I was pointing out that me voting for Jake isn't alignment indicative, but oh well.

Then he unvotes Jake. I do not know why.

2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. Robz888 (asterisk)
4. Jakethebaseballgod22
5. Calamitas
6. Awaclus
9. mcmcsalot
10. faust
12. gkrieg13

My lynch pool for today. Not because any of these people are scummy, but because the people I took out are towny.

So which people did he take out? TWM, EFHW, Joseph. Joseph is obvious and the other two kind of consensual townish reads. This post really provides nothing of substance.

Unvote

Was this unvote because Joseph gave you scum points for voting Jake?

No, Joseph will give me scum points for breathing. This was because Jake seemed to have lost his tunneling mindset and I don't particularly want to lynch jake D1

This is also something I don't like.

I don't intend to hammer, but I want Joseph to know that he's been less and less towny. That being said, I seriously doubt Joseph will get lynched today so it doesn't really matter

This is weird. I think scum!RR is more likely to shy away from a town hammer.

He continues to defend Joseph afterwards. Weird since of course we won't lynch him, he's a claimed PR. Why does he still feel a need to defend him? I don't know.

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much. Is this scummy? No. But I do think one of those three are scum and EFHW isn't in my lynch pool, so lynching Robz isn't the worst. I'm also going to intend to hammer, but keep in mind that I have no spine.

This is when Robz is at L-1 and there's intent to hammer from Joseph. The reasoning is fantastically horrible. Also referring to an earlier read instead of posting off the top of our head (see the EFHW bit) is something scum tends to do because fake reads are harder to remember.

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I get that but unless we narrow the lynch pool our lynch will be forced at the last moment and not thought through because we couldn't come to a decision there fore if we narrow the lynch pool we will have a more consensus and non forced lynch so please whats your top 3?

I have posted a lynch pool in the past. I could throw together a reads list. But, especially after most people have already said their three, I see little reason for me to give mine.

Not exactly sure why RR does not want to post his reads. Maybe trying to buddy up mcmc?

Yeah #646 looks really bad for Jake. And even though he gets the 'Jake pass,' his best tactic for staying alive might be to not poke the ashersky.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

There is lots of pretty useless discussion with Jake.

I'm actually pretty sure that if Jake is scum, he's try D1 bussing. It just seems like the type of thing scum!Jake would want to experiment with. That being said, Jake seems surprisingly towny this game, but I want my observation to be know so I can at least, if nothing else, get to say 'I told you so.'

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

PPE: 8

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I said I suppescted u in D-1 before that post. Will post it later

And I am not allowed to suspect anyone that suspected me during the whole of Day1?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

[Joseph2302]

I'm serial killer by the way

Dude stop or I'll try to lynch you just because of how annoying that is no matter your role.

Bad logic.
Killing the IC is strictly worse than killing anyone else

[Joseph2302]

Although I'm sure someone will find an edge case for it

[gkrieg13]

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

So, to start off, it looks like mcmcsalot is the only wagon at the end of D1 that I don't read as town/know is town.  So really I'm just looking for people who were deflecting off of it in the 6 people I mentioned earlier (those alive - me/faust/Awaclus/Joseph).  Also those people that were trying to consolidate wagons, to avoid wagons on other people.

I would say that if mcmcsalot is scum, EFHW is a likely partner.

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

This I think continues to give Jake town points.

It is true, from whoever said it, that RR does pretty much only talk about Jake.

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

More urging from EFHW to stay on the mislynches.

Calamitas doesn't offer very much.  He could also be scum.

ash also keeps pushing the Robz wagon, although at this point, it is obvious that one of the major wagons (me/Awa/Robz) is probably going to lynch.

But ash also tries to lynch outside of the existing wagons, so town points to him.

Ok, so TWM (not from this) comes out townie and so does ash.

I think EFHW is the scummiest from this, and also mcmcsalot comes on right after deadline (eerily so).  I think I call a EFHW/mcmcsalot/RR team here.

vote: EFHW

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm serial killer by the way

Dude stop or I'll try to lynch you just because of how annoying that is no matter your role.

Bad logic.
Killing the IC is strictly worse than killing anyone else

Then do something!!!!!!!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I said I suppescted u in D-1 before that post. Will post it later

And I am not allowed to suspect anyone that suspected me during the whole of Day1?

You are it was just my observation that you tried to recur and then I refuted your refute. I never said you couldn't think that. I just said that you are wrong about me being scum

[Joseph2302]

I'll try to dedicate time to reread this tomorrow.

Ditto.

Work & Dominion League & a couple of other things took my day.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.3

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (1): faust
gkrieg13 (1): EFHW
Awaclus (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

woof

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 2.3

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
The_Wine_Merchant (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (1): faust
gkrieg13 (1): EFHW

Not voting (2): Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

Jake has moved his vote from me to awaclus according to post #1003

[EFHW]

You have me voting twice. My vote should be on gkrieg

[EFHW]

I'd be open to an RR lynch. Planning to flesh out my thoughts on gkrieg tomorrow.

[ashersky]

Flying today so LA.

Lynch pool is Faust rr efhw jake twm at this point.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

[faust]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

I really dislike this post.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

I really dislike this post.

Sorry, I guess? Can't say much in response if you don't give me more than that.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Then nothing until the deadline. RR votes for nobody except Jake on D1. We basically know nothing about his scum reads.

Then there is today, which still doesn't give us any of RR's reads except he seems to think Jake is town and posts lots and lots of distracting stuff.

Vote: RR

I mentioned this earlier and got shot down (can't remember if that included you or not) or ignored. I still think there is something weird going on between RR and Jake.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

Given theirs a 0% chance of that I would say no but I would vote RR if he is the lynch but I would prefer awa.

[Roadrunner7671]

I would vote RR if he is the lynch

What does this mean?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I would vote RR if he is the lynch

What does this mean?

I'm not opposed to lynching you but would prefer others.

[Roadrunner7671]

I would vote RR if he is the lynch

What does this mean?

I'm not opposed to lynching you but would prefer others.

You wanna make a list of your lynch preferences in order or nah?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I would vote RR if he is the lynch

What does this mean?

I'm not opposed to lynching you but would prefer others.

You wanna make a list of your lynch preferences in order or nah?

yah

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

[Roadrunner7671]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

[Roadrunner7671]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

There's no reason to lynch him. Also the last 3 are all the pretty much no lynch's

[Roadrunner7671]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

There's no reason to lynch him. Also the last 3 are all the pretty much no lynch's

Would you rather no lynch or lynch gkreig?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

There's no reason to lynch him. Also the last 3 are all the pretty much no lynch's

Would you rather no lynch or lynch gkreig?

Option 3 any of the top 6

[Roadrunner7671]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

There's no reason to lynch him. Also the last 3 are all the pretty much no lynch's

Would you rather no lynch or lynch gkreig?

Option 3 any of the top 6

?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

You'd lynch Joseph over faust?? Is this because faust is budding you? Because I sort of feel like it might be, but I don't know.

No because I feel like he is one of the only people moving the game along as well as making cases. and I'm sick of this serial killer crap.

So you'd rather lynch our guy who is basically an IC over Faust. Look at the most recent newbie mafia game where I was a babysitter, Faust was scum and the only one moving the game at LyLo! And his scum team won!

There's no reason to lynch him. Also the last 3 are all the pretty much no lynch's

Would you rather no lynch or lynch gkreig?

Option 3 any of the top 6

?

How is that confusing?

[Roadrunner7671]

By the way, other people can chime in if they want

[Roadrunner7671]

How is that confusing?

I don't understand what it means.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

How is that confusing?

I don't understand what it means.

It means any of the top 6 in my list.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

By the way, other people can chime in if they want

[Roadrunner7671]

How is that confusing?

I don't understand what it means.

It means any of the top 6 in my list.

You'll lynch any of them?

[Roadrunner7671]

Two people are lurking!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

These 6.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Two people are lurking!

Yes mcmc has been lurking the whole game and no one cares

[Roadrunner7671]

Two people are lurking!

Yes mcmc has been lurking the whole game and no one cares

No, I mean watching the thread right now but not saying anything.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Two people are lurking!

Yes mcmc has been lurking the whole game and no one cares

No, I mean watching the thread right now but not saying anything.

I know that too

[Roadrunner7671]

Two people are lurking!

Yes mcmc has been lurking the whole game and no one cares

No, I mean watching the thread right now but not saying anything.

I know that too

Who are they? 

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Two people are lurking!

Yes mcmc has been lurking the whole game and no one cares

No, I mean watching the thread right now but not saying anything.

I know that too

Who are they? 

3 Awa, Joseph, TWM

[Roadrunner7671]

Darn!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Darn!

dahahaha

[Roadrunner7671]

So yeah. This is fun

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

[Roadrunner7671]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

Yep

[Roadrunner7671]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

Yep

But we're not going to stop, are we?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

Yep

But we're not going to stop, are we?

For Glory!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

Yep

But we're not going to stop, are we?

For Glory!!!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

 8

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

Yep

But we're not going to stop, are we?

For Glory!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

Just so you guys know, if you're doing a reread, feel free to skip page 43

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Just so you guys know, if you're doing a reread, feel free to skip page 43

and probably 44.

[Joseph2302]

Just so you guys know, if you're doing a reread, feel free to skip page 43

I only have 22 pages.... But I'll reread soon.
Vote: schadd for now

[Awaclus]

We are currently on page 22. Also stop cluttering the thread.

[Awaclus]

Normally I'd vote for Jake or RR here, but as it turns out, I'm already voting for Jake or RR so that's a thing.

[faust]

Just so you guys know, if you're doing a reread, feel free to skip page 43

I only have 22 pages.... But I'll reread soon.
Vote: schadd for now

Voting for the mod is an obvious scum tell!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Normally I'd vote for Jake or RR here, but as it turns out, I'm already voting for Jake or RR so that's a thing.

How can you vote for two people?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Just so you guys know, if you're doing a reread, feel free to skip page 43

I only have 22 pages.... But I'll reread soon.
Vote: schadd for now

Voting for the mod is an obvious scum tell!

Yes

[faust]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

[Roadrunner7671]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

[faust]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

[Roadrunner7671]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But muh Masons

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But he claimed SK.

[faust]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But muh Masons

Any Masons that are stupid enough to not have claimed by now that the sole blame for us losing the game.

[faust]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But muh Masons

Any Masons that are stupid enough to not have claimed by now thattake the sole blame for us losing the game.

[Roadrunner7671]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But muh Masons

Any Masons that are stupid enough to not have claimed by now that the sole blame for us losing the game.

Damn! There's no right or wrong way to play! Remeber Ghibi Mafia?

[faust]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

He's not quite an IC!

Yes he is.

But muh Masons

Any Masons that are stupid enough to not have claimed by now that the sole blame for us losing the game.

Damn! There's no right or wrong way to play! Remeber Ghibi Mafia?

Nope

[Roadrunner7671]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

[faust]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

[gkrieg13]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

[Roadrunner7671]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

If I was scum, do you really think I'd be doing any of this? I'm just being bored in class

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

I agree Vote: RR

[faust]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

Was it the one in the same post where you scumread Calamitas? That might affect how seriously you are taken.

[Roadrunner7671]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

I agree Vote: RR

And you! Do you think I' be doing any of this if you weren't goading me on at every second?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

I agree Vote: RR

And you! Do you think I' be doing any of this if you weren't goading me on at every second?

Yep and i'm not

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh geez

[gkrieg13]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

Was it the one in the same post where you scumread Calamitas? That might affect how seriously you are taken.

What is wrong with that?  Actually what is this supposed to mean?  You literally are choosing to disregard anything I say about EFHW because I also voiced opinions about someone else?  Can you see how scummy that is?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Oh geez

Stop cluttering the thread RR. More scum 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

[faust]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

I agree Vote: RR

And you! Do you think I' be doing any of this if you weren't goading me on at every second?

If there is any goading going on, it's coming from you.

[faust]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

Was it the one in the same post where you scumread Calamitas? That might affect how seriously you are taken.

What is wrong with that?  Actually what is this supposed to mean?  You literally are choosing to disregard anything I say about EFHW because I also voiced opinions about someone else?  Can you see how scummy that is?

Well, the fact that you continue to voice your opinion on a dead player brings up the question of how involved in the game you really are.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

Which isn't to say I don't like either of you. You both seem like nice enough fellows. But I feel like this is your game and I am intruding on it, and that just isn't very fun.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

Which isn't to say I don't like either of you. You both seem like nice enough fellows. But I feel like this is your game and I am intruding on it, and that just isn't very fun.

Something had to happen because no one was posting but back to the game I don't know how people can't see that awa is scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

Which isn't to say I don't like either of you. You both seem like nice enough fellows. But I feel like this is your game and I am intruding on it, and that just isn't very fun.

Something had to happen because no one was posting but back to the game I don't know how people can't see that awa is scum.

People were posting. I had just barely posted. Faust had just barely posted. Ashersky had just barely posted. And those posts certainly had more bearing and content in relation to the game than any of the posts that you and RR sent back and forth. You both already acknowledged that we should just skip them, meaning they weren't worth reading.
Don't try to justify your impolite (and scummy) behavior by blaming the other players in this game.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm also extremely concerned that mcmc is not doing anything with no reason to be absent and every time some one calls him out he comes back but I think that we might have to do a lurker lynch on mcmc despite how much lurker Lynch's are crap. If not can someone prod him or replace him.

[Joseph2302]

Yay I started a discussion somehow.
I promise I'll reread tonight.

PPE: Some finite number, I think 1

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Calamitas for now then.
His only D2 post was bad.

[Joseph2302]

And I know I'm the worst IC ever, so sorry for that.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

Which isn't to say I don't like either of you. You both seem like nice enough fellows. But I feel like this is your game and I am intruding on it, and that just isn't very fun.

Something had to happen because no one was posting but back to the game I don't know how people can't see that awa is scum.

People were posting. I had just barely posted. Faust had just barely posted. Ashersky had just barely posted. And those posts certainly had more bearing and content in relation to the game than any of the posts that you and RR sent back and forth. You both already acknowledged that we should just skip them, meaning they weren't worth reading.
Don't try to justify your impolite (and scummy) behavior by blaming the other players in this game.

1. Watch me
2. I didn't check the forum for 24 hours and there was 4 posts in total during that time
3. It's not scummy behavior

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Calamitas for now then.
His only D2 post was bad.

Uhhh you know he's dead right

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So yeah. This is fun

Totally

Peole are going to get mad because we're 'cluttering the thread'

I highly doubt I will play another game that includes the two of you.

Which isn't to say I don't like either of you. You both seem like nice enough fellows. But I feel like this is your game and I am intruding on it, and that just isn't very fun.

Something had to happen because no one was posting but back to the game I don't know how people can't see that awa is scum.

People were posting. I had just barely posted. Faust had just barely posted. Ashersky had just barely posted. And those posts certainly had more bearing and content in relation to the game than any of the posts that you and RR sent back and forth. You both already acknowledged that we should just skip them, meaning they weren't worth reading.
Don't try to justify your impolite (and scummy) behavior by blaming the other players in this game.

1. Watch me
2. I didn't check the forum for 24 hours and there was 4 posts in total during that time
3. It's not scummy behavior

vote: Jake

[faust]

Last reread I wanted done today is TWM.

Starts off with usual newbie-ish stuff. Though I think this is a bit artificial:

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

I feel like gkrieg is really defending himself here over something somewhat minor. I mean, the two people he is defending himself against aren't even voting for him.

This I'd say is bad because yes you want to defend yourself as town. But I'm willing to put it under "newbie read".

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.

Vote: roadrunner

Generic read.

He goes after Joseph for a while; I cannot really fault him for that.

I don't think WW is playing!

I guess that means that gk and idontplay both haven't actually voted yet this game. Does that mean anything?

I don't like this question. It's very hedgy and at the same time it is playing the newbie card.

I have counted multiple veterans read Joseph as a strong town (RR, gkrieg, IDPTG, EFHW, faust, Calamitas). And while I don't understand that or agree with them it does encompass half of the players in the game and certainly includes a significant number of town players.

So while I disagree, I suppose I need to concede both that we aren't going to be able to get a lynch on him without movement from that group (unlikely, I think given they were all fairly adamant about their town read on him) and that I might just be reading Joseph wrong given that I haven't played with him before.

unvote

I still think his actions look like something that mafia might do and if those above change their minds I would likely go back to voting him. Further, if I am wrong and Joseph is town I would encourage him to avoid doing such things to make a significant number of people think you are mafia in the future.

This is overall a more genuine-sounding newbie post.

Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.

Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.

Also, Vote: clus

You are just being annoying. Many individuals have asked you repeatedly to stop. Can you please recognize that your actions are frustrating to others trying to play this game.

The frustration seems real, and town is more likely to be frustrated here.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

I think the flip-flopping TWM does here is not that easy to do as scum. On the other hand, given Joseph's annoyingness, scum!TWM might have seen an opening to still get that lynch here.

There is some setup analysis going on about whether someone should counterclaim afterwards... which, fine. But really TWM is very focused on Joseph up until here and hasn't given many other reads, which is probematic. He continues down walking a very thin line about whether or not Joseph should be lynched without counterclaim. Which of course is something scum wants, but wouldn't push. He looks like trying to find a townie that he can blame for getting Joseph lynched, not willing to take responsibility himself.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

Why Robz?

It was revealed that Robz had pushed for and achieved a lynch on a claimed PR Day1 previously as mafia in M88.

Don't like this read. It is sheeping disguised as your own thoughts, and it's not even a good case.

And this is Robz's one post between that time and when faust started to vote for him and sent the Robz wagon snowballing (at that point Robz does point at Awaclus, but only after heavy voting). I had thought if the consensus had been more apparent this would have been the time that Robz should have called for Awaclus to claim if he felt that Awaclus was the UB. But he didn't, but I am not sure if that is because Robz didn't feel that way or if because he didn't want to.

Robz is at L-1, has explained his reasoning, and TWM is trying to softly push for his lynch. I don't like this.

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

No I get your point. I am saying that there is exactly one example of this so-called projection. There aren't multiple, or a bunch. Just one. So I think you are exaggerating something to piggyback off faust's suspicion.

I'm not sure I agree, but this way of thinking indicates a town perspective.

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

So this has 2 confirmed townies in it, and is definitely not that great on the spectrum of possible lynch pools.

TWM then goes over his suspcion of RR. Which he also had previousl. I am kinda confused why RR didn't show up on TWM's would lynchs. Maybe to get a partner in there?

He also tries to push for a Calamitas lynch for a bit. Then he moved to Robz relatively early as far as pre-deadline switches go and there isn't much more from him. He doesn't really push the lynch, but quietly moves along.

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

ash pointed this out as scummy; I agree. A townie isn't very concerned about why he's being OMGUS'd.

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

This continues a certain trend I see in TWM's posts of picking up something someone else said that is useful for him and spinning it further. Which cleverly makes it seem as though you are not the one pushing that argument. Same with the following post:

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

Well your point about RR is pretty good as well. I went back and checked and he didn't have a real vote on anyone all game. He had a couple that were really early on Jake. When I noticed his odd interactions with Jake I checked to see if he had been voting, but I guess those early votes lead me to believe he was voting more often.

I think I might go look at other RR games as town/mafia and see if there is a correlation as this seems potentially significant.

I really don't like going after Jake/RR here (especially both). This is too easy.

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Here's an extreme willingness to accept my input on Awaclus. Which is scummy.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

Scummy overexplaining of why he leaves the guy he tunneled. Additionally, if RR turns out to be scum, he already sets Jake up as his partner.

So there is some towny stuff in here, but overall I feel that all his play helps scum. There is also lots of tunneling going on while he basically never posts reads on other players; I don't know his reads on gkrieg, me, Awaclus etc.

PPE: 10

[faust]

Vote: Calamitas for now then.
His only D2 post was bad.

Uhhh you know he's dead right

It's a joke. Let me explain it to you: Calamitas didn't realize he was dead and posted in the thread after D2 started. That is bad, and so Calamitas' only D2 post was in fact bad.

[gkrieg13]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

Was it the one in the same post where you scumread Calamitas? That might affect how seriously you are taken.

What is wrong with that?  Actually what is this supposed to mean?  You literally are choosing to disregard anything I say about EFHW because I also voiced opinions about someone else?  Can you see how scummy that is?

Well, the fact that you continue to voice your opinion on a dead player brings up the question of how involved in the game you really are.

I see, you're right.  It doesn't mean that the rest of my post wasn't valid.  I just hadn't gotten to that point in my reread.  I was just looking at the EoD, and I didn't look at the beginning of the day.

[faust]

I like a TWM/mcmc/RR team right now.

I also don't like posts about scum teams. I could fit in ash somewhere up there I suppose.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Calamitas for now then.
His only D2 post was bad.

Uhhh you know he's dead right

It's a joke. Let me explain it to you: Calamitas didn't realize he was dead and posted in the thread after D2 started. That is bad, and so Calamitas' only D2 post was in fact bad.

See, jokes are funnier when someone explains them.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Calamitas for now then.
His only D2 post was bad.

Uhhh you know he's dead right

It's a joke. Let me explain it to you: Calamitas didn't realize he was dead and posted in the thread after D2 started. That is bad, and so Calamitas' only D2 post was in fact bad.

I know that but just making sure because I don't know his state of mind due to his not doing much

[gkrieg13]

faust is acting very strange.

[Roadrunner7671]

faust is acting very strange.

I don't like it, but I don't know if it's 'strange'

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

faust is acting very strange.

Why because he's actually making cases and trying to find scum unlike others?

[gkrieg13]

faust is acting very strange.

Why because he's actually making cases and trying to find scum unlike others?

No, it is because he is actively trying to get me not interested in this game.

[faust]

faust is acting very strange.

Why because he's actually making cases and trying to find scum unlike others?

No, it is because he is actively trying to get me not interested in this game.

Man, even if I was willing to do that, I just wouldn't know where to begin.

[gkrieg13]

faust is acting very strange.

Why because he's actually making cases and trying to find scum unlike others?

No, it is because he is actively trying to get me not interested in this game.

Man, even if I was willing to do that, I just wouldn't know where to begin.

Well you can start by continuing to refuse to comment on my post about EFHW other than that Calamitas is dead.

[EFHW]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

It's better than not playing like most of the people in this game.

That is debatable.  I'm surprised no one has really commented on my commentary on EFHW.

Was it the one in the same post where you scumread Calamitas? That might affect how seriously you are taken.

What is wrong with that?  Actually what is this supposed to mean?  You literally are choosing to disregard anything I say about EFHW because I also voiced opinions about someone else?  Can you see how scummy that is?

Well, the fact that you continue to voice your opinion on a dead player brings up the question of how involved in the game you really are.

Your interpretation is more charitable than mine.  I was wondering if he was trying to "townslip".

[gkrieg13]

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

So, to start off, it looks like mcmcsalot is the only wagon at the end of D1 that I don't read as town/know is town.  So really I'm just looking for people who were deflecting off of it in the 6 people I mentioned earlier (those alive - me/faust/Awaclus/Joseph).  Also those people that were trying to consolidate wagons, to avoid wagons on other people.

I would say that if mcmcsalot is scum, EFHW is a likely partner.

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

This I think continues to give Jake town points.

It is true, from whoever said it, that RR does pretty much only talk about Jake.

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

More urging from EFHW to stay on the mislynches.

Calamitas doesn't offer very much.  He could also be scum.

ash also keeps pushing the Robz wagon, although at this point, it is obvious that one of the major wagons (me/Awa/Robz) is probably going to lynch.

But ash also tries to lynch outside of the existing wagons, so town points to him.

Ok, so TWM (not from this) comes out townie and so does ash.

I think EFHW is the scummiest from this, and also mcmcsalot comes on right after deadline (eerily so).  I think I call a EFHW/mcmcsalot/RR team here.

vote: EFHW

reposting so it doesn't get lost

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Only going to respond to points that I think I can respond to:

Starts off with usual newbie-ish stuff. Though I think this is a bit artificial:

So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?

I don't know why you would think it is artificial. It is a legitimate question to ask. And the answers I got back I thought were pretty helpful. They have shaped, in a large sense, how I have tried to play.

I don't think WW is playing!

I guess that means that gk and idontplay both haven't actually voted yet this game. Does that mean anything?

I don't like this question. It's very hedgy and at the same time it is playing the newbie card.

It seems like you just don't like me asking questions and trying to figure things out. I don't get that. It is like you want me to have a bunch of experience with this game, that I couldn't conceivably have.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

I think the flip-flopping TWM does here is not that easy to do as scum. On the other hand, given Joseph's annoyingness, scum!TWM might have seen an opening to still get that lynch here.

There is some setup analysis going on about whether someone should counterclaim afterwards... which, fine. But really TWM is very focused on Joseph up until here and hasn't given many other reads, which is probematic. He continues down walking a very thin line about whether or not Joseph should be lynched without counterclaim. Which of course is something scum wants, but wouldn't push. He looks like trying to find a townie that he can blame for getting Joseph lynched, not willing to take responsibility himself.

Did you check to see if any others were giving reads about other players at this point? From memory it seems as if the whole game was revolving around Joseph at this point for just about everyone. I think you are finding me scummy due to a lack of context.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

Why Robz?

It was revealed that Robz had pushed for and achieved a lynch on a claimed PR Day1 previously as mafia in M88.

Don't like this read. It is sheeping disguised as your own thoughts, and it's not even a good case.

I never disguised it as my own thoughts. I attributed it to others. And sure, it isn't a good case now that we now Robz was town. That is very easy to say now on Day2.

And this is Robz's one post between that time and when faust started to vote for him and sent the Robz wagon snowballing (at that point Robz does point at Awaclus, but only after heavy voting). I had thought if the consensus had been more apparent this would have been the time that Robz should have called for Awaclus to claim if he felt that Awaclus was the UB. But he didn't, but I am not sure if that is because Robz didn't feel that way or if because he didn't want to.

Robz is at L-1, has explained his reasoning, and TWM is trying to softly push for his lynch. I don't like this.

Again, not liking me trying to figure things out.

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

ash pointed this out as scummy; I agree. A townie isn't very concerned about why he's being OMGUS'd.

I feel like I committed a faux pas here and I am sorry. No one had really made a case on me through Day1 and I was curious what that might include.

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.

In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?

This continues a certain trend I see in TWM's posts of picking up something someone else said that is useful for him and spinning it further. Which cleverly makes it seem as though you are not the one pushing that argument. Same with the following post:

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

[/quote]
More not liking me trying to figure things out and asking questions. But this time not liking rereading and remembering. 

Well your point about RR is pretty good as well. I went back and checked and he didn't have a real vote on anyone all game. He had a couple that were really early on Jake. When I noticed his odd interactions with Jake I checked to see if he had been voting, but I guess those early votes lead me to believe he was voting more often.

I think I might go look at other RR games as town/mafia and see if there is a correlation as this seems potentially significant.

I really don't like going after Jake/RR here (especially both). This is too easy.

Aren't you voting for RR right now?

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Here's an extreme willingness to accept my input on Awaclus. Which is scummy.

I already explained this, I didn't accept your read on awaclus. I was trying to extrapolate an idea for gkrieg.

Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.

Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?

vote: RoadRunner

Scummy overexplaining of why he leaves the guy he tunneled. Additionally, if RR turns out to be scum, he already sets Jake up as his partner.

So there is some towny stuff in here, but overall I feel that all his play helps scum. There is also lots of tunneling going on while he basically never posts reads on other players; I don't know his reads on gkrieg, me, Awaclus etc.

I guess I just don't think that I am tunneling. At least I am not doing it intentionally. But you seem pretty insistent that I am doing it.

And I really don't know what to make of you or Awaclus. Awaclus just hasn't given enough to get a good read on and I want to think that you are town, just because I don't know what you would look like as mafia. Probably exactly the same. I believe I have stated repeatedly that I have a town read on gkrieg.

I feel like faust doesn't like that I am trying in my own way to figure the game out. Asking questions, referencing other people's posts, being unsure. Maybe those things are scummy to him, but it is really just me trying to play the game and I don't know if there is anything I can do to change that other than stop trying to play the game, which seems like a poor solution to me.

[EFHW]

I have lots to say about your recent reread. 

1. To me, it felt contrived.  Why pick the mcmc wagon to analyze?  There was never any strong movement toward lynching mcmc, so interpreting people's actions in light of that wagon is misleading and omits the contexts of those actions.
2. How do you decide if it's scummy to be on or off that wagon when you don't know he is scum?  You say the wagons can't all be on town, but the only confirmed town wagon we have is Robz's.
3. Since when is it scummy to encourage people to consolidate their votes less than a day before the deadline?  I've gotten that comment from people when I've voted off wagons towards the end of the day. 
4.  As was noted earlier, Calamitas is dead. He was also town.
5. Town points to Jake?  For making up the story that mcmc created chaos?
6. When you said "more urging from EFHW to stay on the mislynches," that was actually the first example you gave me of doing that.  So using "more" is misleading, as is "mislynches".  The only mislynch we know about is Robz's.
7. How is that you give ashersky town points for pushing the Robz mislynch and me scumpoints for moving mcmc from a slight scumread to a null read? If you look more carefully at the quote from me that you started with, I don't say he's town, I say I don't want to lynch him that day.

I wish I could double vote.

PPE: TWM

[faust]

I wish I could double vote.

Well, I can vote: EFHW if that helps.

I didn't think much of gkrieg's post (ater all his EFHW read was hinging on a single post, but that defense is kinda scummy.

[EFHW]

I wish I could double vote.

Well, I can vote: EFHW if that helps.

I didn't think much of gkrieg's post (ater all his EFHW read was hinging on a single post, but that defense is kinda scummy.

In what way?  I think I overreached with the last sentence, but anything else?  I was definitely irked at being voted and pressed as a lynch based on so many logical fallacies.

[EFHW]

faust, why have you been jumping around so much?  This is the sequence of votes: gkrieg, McG/me, Robz, Joseph, mcmc, gkrieg again, Robz again, mcmc again, RR, TWM, me.  I don't know if you actually think any of us are scum.

[EFHW]

faust didn't vote TWM.  My bad.

[faust]

faust, why have you been jumping around so much?  This is the sequence of votes: gkrieg, McG/me, Robz, Joseph, mcmc, gkrieg again, Robz again, mcmc again, RR, TWM, me.  I don't know if you actually think any of us are scum.

Why would I not jump around? I'm trying to figure stuff out.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.4

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (2): gkrieg13, faust
Roadrunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
gkrieg13 (1): EFHW

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671
-_- (1): Joseph2302

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[Joseph2302]

So what we have is:

#953- Jake made a case on Awaclus. I don't like the case, since it asserts that Awaclus is not a 1-shot RB. A fakeclaim of this seems odd and this unlikely. ash pointed this out in #954. Awaclus responded to the case on in #959
#958- faust evaluates mcmc on him, and determines it's nothing
#968- faust reread mcmc and doesn't find him scummy
#974/981- gkrieg thinks he's towny because of the wagons yesterday- I don't really agree. We had 3 possible mislynch wagons yesterday (on the assumption Awa is town), so there's almost certainly some scum in there.
#994- EFHW votes gkrieg, no explanation
#1003- Jake revotes on Awaclus. RR thinks it's an OMGUS, and then there's a discussion about it. faust seems kinda towny from this, RR not so much. RR seems to spend every game finding Jake scummy, but it's not helpful unless he's actually scum.
#1023- faust rereads RR and votes for him. I agree with faust that RR has only voted Jake (who he always voted for), and no other indication of scum reads.
#1028- gkrieg does some reads. Finds jake, TWM, ash towny, EFHW scummy. Also says that "Calamitas could be scum"-like WTF? He's dead, and was VT. We know this.
#1033- Wine votes RR, but also asks other people to vote RR which is kinda odd
#1038- jake say's he'd vote for anyone except faust. This is hedgy, and also means he's open to lynching a UB/IC and also a 1-shot RB.
Then some nonsense between RR and jake again. I think jake would potentially lynch anyone except me, him & faust (although why am I higher up his scum list than faust, when I'm an IC?!).

What a relief that the IC is so engaged he doesn't even know who's playing.

Yes I do no. I'm trying to stir conversation. Same with the Calamitas joke thing.

#1088- RR thinks I'm not IC. Odd? And I agree with faust that masons should have claimed by now i.e. there aren't any.
And then some more Jake/RR nonsense.

#1120- concludes that Wine has done some town, but more scum, things. I'm kinda null on Wine right now.
#1135- some good points from EFHW on gkrieg. Like why pick mcmc to analyse? The person that has done the least. I think EFHW and gkrieg aren't on the same team.


PPE: 4

[Joseph2302]

So my reading is now:

Town: me, faust, Awaclus, jake
Null: Wine, ash
Scummy: RR, mcmc (no activity)

And I need to work out which one of EFHW & gkrieg is scummy.

[Joseph2302]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

[faust]

Well at least my reads mostly align with the IC's. That's a good thing.

I wanted to say that I really think that gkrieg's Calamitas mention has not been a fake. That doesn't really make sense with the rest of the game since a) he did it before and I think scum would not do the same "townslip" again b) he was already getting some suspicion for "pretending to be disinterested" on D1; I don't think scum would try that move if they already got suspected for something similar.

[faust]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

#1033- Wine votes RR, but also asks other people to vote RR which is kinda odd

I think there is a good chance they are both scum and all of their interactions are just attempts to distract over compensate from that. The only player I asked was Jake if he would be willing to vote for RR to see how he would respond. He hedged initially, but eventually decided to vote for him after that whole two page long ramble.

How are you seeing RR scummy, but not Jake?

[faust]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

Mostly because I'm less worried about scum!RR than about, say, scum!EFHW or scum!ash.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

Mostly because I'm less worried about scum!RR than about, say, scum!EFHW or scum!ash.

This is one of the first things that has really made me take pause about faust.

[faust]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

Mostly because I'm less worried about scum!RR than about, say, scum!EFHW or scum!ash.

This is one of the first things that has really made me take pause about faust.

Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.

[faust]

Request prod on mcmcsalot

[EFHW]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

[EFHW]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

I'm with you.  Just want to sort out gkrieg first, see if that wagon will fly/roll.

[EFHW]

faust, why have you been jumping around so much?  This is the sequence of votes: gkrieg, McG/me, Robz, Joseph, mcmc, gkrieg again, Robz again, mcmc again, RR, TWM, me.  I don't know if you actually think any of us are scum.

Why would I not jump around? I'm trying to figure stuff out.

Just seems like you don't usually put down so many votes.

[EFHW]

And the TWM case was really a stretch.

[mcmcsalot]

Request prod on mcmcsalot

Ugh my post just got deleted.

Basically there was little to no content between 5pm Jan 10 to 11pm Jan 11 and so I didn't feel the need to comment and since then the thread has had 6 pages in 7 hours. I work from 8am to 5pm and only forum if my boss is out or I'm in the bathroom.

So pretty rude to request a prod but whatever man, I'll catch up at 5 and make sure to post for you befor I make dinner for my wife. I'll let her know I might get replaced if I don't post she'll understand

[mcmcsalot]

If I'm not posting enough for you just let me know and I'll replace. I wouldn't want to negatively impact the flow of the game like our ic joking about being a serial killer or jake dancing around calling TWM an ass for 4 posts.

Legitimately irl upset so take it for what you want.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

jake dancing around calling TWM an ass for 4 posts.

Legitimately irl upset so take it for what you want.

I feel you man. I feel ya.

[faust]

faust, why have you been jumping around so much?  This is the sequence of votes: gkrieg, McG/me, Robz, Joseph, mcmc, gkrieg again, Robz again, mcmc again, RR, TWM, me.  I don't know if you actually think any of us are scum.

Why would I not jump around? I'm trying to figure stuff out.

Just seems like you don't usually put down so many votes.

I don't know where you would get that impression from.

[faust]

So pretty rude to request a prod but whatever man, I'll catch up at 5 and make sure to post for you befor I make dinner for my wife. I'll let her know I might get replaced if I don't post she'll understand

It's not rude to request a prod, it's rude to not post enough. Look, it even says so in the OP:

inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

[faust]

And the TWM case was really a stretch.

How often do I need to tell you people that a reread is not the same as a case?

[EFHW]

And the TWM case was really a stretch.

How often do I need to tell you people that a reread is not the same as a case?

It felt like a case. I will try to be more precise in the future.

[ashersky]

Seems like I missed a bunch of...oh wait, nothing while I was flying.

Jake/RR -- you need to stop or you will always be lynched for relief.

The further we get from robz's posts, the less scummy Faust begins to feel.

[mcmcsalot]

So pretty rude to request a prod but whatever man, I'll catch up at 5 and make sure to post for you befor I make dinner for my wife. I'll let her know I might get replaced if I don't post she'll understand

It's not rude to request a prod, it's rude to not post enough. Look, it even says so in the OP:

inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

Cool, typically inactivity is called out when the person really isn't posting and when they do it's just the sorry I'm behind post and they are never really present for current discussions. I've been active and posted cases/reads and am usually around between 5pm and 11pm to discuss things with people live.

But you are right, I had not posted in an appropriate amount of time to be allowed to request a prod

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

[mcmcsalot]

So pretty rude to request a prod but whatever man, I'll catch up at 5 and make sure to post for you befor I make dinner for my wife. I'll let her know I might get replaced if I don't post she'll understand

It's not rude to request a prod, it's rude to not post enough. Look, it even says so in the OP:

inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

Cool, typically inactivity is called out when the person really isn't posting and when they do it's just the sorry I'm behind post and they are never really present for current discussions. I've been active and posted cases/reads and am usually around between 5pm and 11pm to discuss things with people live.

But you are right, I had not posted in an appropriate amount of time to be allowed to request a prod

It's a game, I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I took it, my bad. Will catch up when I can.

[Awaclus]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

You are also acti-lurking. The fact that you think something is scummy that you yourself are doing is quite telling of your alignment.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

You are also acti-lurking. The fact that you think something is scummy that you yourself are doing is quite telling of your alignment.

I've also been voting, making cases, postings reads all game where as RR has done none of those things

[faust]

So pretty rude to request a prod but whatever man, I'll catch up at 5 and make sure to post for you befor I make dinner for my wife. I'll let her know I might get replaced if I don't post she'll understand

It's not rude to request a prod, it's rude to not post enough. Look, it even says so in the OP:

inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

Cool, typically inactivity is called out when the person really isn't posting and when they do it's just the sorry I'm behind post and they are never really present for current discussions. I've been active and posted cases/reads and am usually around between 5pm and 11pm to discuss things with people live.

But you are right, I had not posted in an appropriate amount of time to be allowed to request a prod

It's a game, I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I took it, my bad. Will catch up when I can.

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. It's just, you may know that you'll be back in the evening, but we don't. And if possible I would rather prevent having someone be gone for 2 or 3 days before notifying them. I'd rather issue one prod too much than one too few.

[Awaclus]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

You are also acti-lurking. The fact that you think something is scummy that you yourself are doing is quite telling of your alignment.

I've also been voting, making cases, postings reads all game where as RR has done none of those things

But your vote and your case are awful and you have been posting a ton without any content.

[mcmcsalot]

]
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. It's just, you may know that you'll be back in the evening, but we don't. And if possible I would rather prevent having someone be gone for 2 or 3 days before notifying them. I'd rather issue one prod too much than one too few.

Completely understandable

[EFHW]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

[gkrieg13]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

I just started at that point.  The only 3 wagons at the EoD were on me, a flipped townie, and Awaclus.  From things that have been said, I was doing the wagon analysis from the perspective that Awaclus was town (if you look at what was happening from the time that I did the analysis).  The fact that you are finding me scummy from all of this is strange.  Have you ever seen me do any of those things as scum?  I mean, you are accusing me of doing contrived wagon analysis, when I didn't just do the mcmc wagon, but did all of them.  I just happened to start at the vote count that I felt best reflected the start of the EoD.

The Calamitas thing was a mistake.  I was just looking at what was happening in that moment, and I'm in a lot of games at the moment, so I have a hard time remembering everything that happened in each of them, especially D1, when I wasn't super engaged.  I don't just check out of games as scum.

[gkrieg13]

I do know that 2 of the wagons were on town, and I have a strong townread on Awaclus ATM.  So my reread saying that anyone trying to stop other wagons from forming is scummy, is completely valid.

[EFHW]

I mean, you are accusing me of doing contrived wagon analysis, when I didn't just do the mcmc wagon, but did all of them.  I just happened to start at the vote count that I felt best reflected the start of the EoD.

Have you posted the other wagon analyses? What about the town points to Jake and ash vs the scum points to me? I'm not saying they are or aren't town, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I still think lynching one of RR or jake is the way to go. The cases that are being presented on other: gkrieg, EFHW, awaclus just aren't doing it for me.

[gkrieg13]

I mean, you are accusing me of doing contrived wagon analysis, when I didn't just do the mcmc wagon, but did all of them.  I just happened to start at the vote count that I felt best reflected the start of the EoD.

Have you posted the other wagon analyses? What about the town points to Jake and ash vs the scum points to me? I'm not saying they are or aren't town, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason here.

That post is from that point to the end of day. So the wagon analyses are all in that post just not stated very prettily. It wasn't a case on you just a reread

[EFHW]

I still think lynching one of RR or jake is the way to go. The cases that are being presented on other: gkrieg, EFHW, awaclus just aren't doing it for me.

Cases on those two are always going to seem stronger than cases on the rest of us. I guess I'm up for either of them, though.  Which would be more informative?  I'm thinking Jake would be since he has actually said stuff.

[Roadrunner7671]

You're all right. I took a step back from this game and took several minutes to read, and man I'm annoying. A few games ago I was a decent player, not amazing but respectable. But I've made a remarkable transition into a troll type of character. And it's not even Jake's my fault, I'm not blaming him for anything. I just need to play better. I have done literally nothing this game. Nothing at all. Normally I make a halfway bad case or contribute somehow, and I haven't done any of that. I've hardly voted, I haven't contributed anything, and I've even started annoying myself. I don't want to start turning into a bad player just because I like to mess around, but I feel like I might be headed down that path, which totally blows. I don't even really care about being 'quirky' or 'unique,' that'll either come naturally or it won't, and either way I'm fine. But my behavior and my play hasn't been up to any standards or precedents I've set in any past games, so I'm truly sorry. Assuming you guys decide not to lynch me, I'm going to turn this game around. Of course, with finals and everything this is coming at a pretty bad time, but I've dug this hole myself and I need to fix it. Honestly, I don't even know if I've been playing to my Wincon. By 'contributing' all I have, I haven't been doing anything. At all. So I'm sorry to everyone for playing badly, and I'm particularly sorry to TWM for making a garbage first impression. I can't promise any super amazing cases, but I think it's safe for me to promise to start playing better. Thanks for putting up with my crap up until now.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Apology accepted, not that I really think it was necessary, but it was nice you regardless.

I am not going to read anything into the above post as it just reads like a human, not town and not mafia, just sincere. At least I hope it is.

But I feel totally justified maintaining my current read on you and will continue to maintain that read unless I see a valid reason to stop.

[mcmcsalot]

So I am completely caught up, and will post my thoughts in the morning.

[Roadrunner7671]

But I feel totally justified maintaining my current read on you and will continue to maintain that read unless I see a valid reason to stop.

That's fair. Until I actually start contributing (which probably won't be until morning) I don't expect you to change your mind.

[Joseph2302]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

[Joseph2302]

Oh and Request: Vote Count because counting is hard

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.5

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (2): gkrieg13, faust
Roadrunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22,
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 2.5

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (2): gkrieg13, faust
Roadrunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22,
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

So why are 2 people voting faust?
And why the 2 on Jake? Is that because of the Jake/RR nonsense?
The rest of the votes I can understand. Also, RR please vote, so people actually know what you're thinking.

[faust]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

How is gkrieg acti-lurking? Why is it weird to focus on people who don't do much?

[Joseph2302]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

How is gkrieg acti-lurking? Why is it weird to focus on people who don't do much?

Because you learn a lot less, because they haven't done as much.
Apart from that one post, I don't remember much other meaningful content.

[Joseph2302]

Request Prod on anyone eligible for Prod

Feels like there's less activity than is optimal

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 2.5

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (2): gkrieg13, faust
Roadrunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22,
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

So why are 2 people voting faust?
And why the 2 on Jake? Is that because of the Jake/RR nonsense?
The rest of the votes I can understand. Also, RR please vote, so people actually know what you're thinking.

I am voting for who I think is most likely mafia. I was voting for Jake previous to the nonsense, but it certainly added to the reasons to vote for him?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

How is gkrieg acti-lurking? Why is it weird to focus on people who don't do much?

Because you learn a lot less, because they haven't done as much.
Apart from that one post, I don't remember much other meaningful content.

People with less content than gkrieg (in total and per post):

Ashersky (explainable due to subbing in and LA)
mcmcsalot
Awaclus
RR and Jake

[ashersky]

I am voting for Faust because I found him scummy on D1 and didn't particularly like his start to D2.

Specifically, I thought his buddying of Robz was scummy.

[gkrieg13]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

Once again it was a reread with a vote at the end not a case. And how am I acti-lurking at this point. Now I'm doing rereads, taking stances. I'm much more involved now than many people, as has been pointed out.

[gkrieg13]

I guess I can put together an actual case on EFHW because people just aren't seeing it yet.

[Joseph2302]

I think I've made up my mind on gkrieg and EFHW. Gkrieg is acti-lurking, his case seems weird at it was focused on someone who hasn't done that much, and he thinks Wine is scum?

Vote: gkrieg

How is gkrieg acti-lurking? Why is it weird to focus on people who don't do much?

Because you learn a lot less, because they haven't done as much.
Apart from that one post, I don't remember much other meaningful content.

People with less content than gkrieg (in total and per post):

Ashersky (explainable due to subbing in and LA)
mcmcsalot
Awaclus
RR and Jake

That doesn't mean gkrieg is not acti-lurking, it just means other people are worse.

And I've highlighted that mcmc and RR haven't done much, Ash subbed in late, and Awaclus seems town due to his claim. And Jake has done some decent reads in between the nonsense.

[faust]

I am voting for Faust because I found him scummy on D1 and didn't particularly like his start to D2.

Specifically, I thought his buddying of Robz was scummy.

How did I "buddy" Robz? (Assuming buddying means something other than townreading)

[faust]

First you think that I am scummy because I'm Robz' partner. Then Robz flips town and I am scummy because I read him correctly? Don't you see you are just changing your narrative so that you can keep finding me scummy?

[faust]

Reread of Idplay/ash:

Idplay opens voting for a player that's not in the game. Does that say anything? Well the mildest of town reads because scum has a better idea of who's in the game.

I'm the head of the department of the colour yellow

I get not claiming a role (which I like- I think it's too early), but all that buildup into absolutely nothing seems iffy. I just don't think town would make that threat. However, town!Joseph made a similar type threat in NM9.

Hedgy position on Joseph.

Jokes, I'm UB

Do we believe this? I'm not sure I do

I'm not sure I like this post.

Okay, ashersky takes over now.

Has anyone claimed anything?

Joseph has claimed UB without a counterclaim.

Did whomever I replaced post after that claim so we can assume I'm not the UB?

Seems to be making a point out of claiming that he didn't read his PM. I don't get that. The only thing this does is causing ou to play suboptimally. It makes more sense as a scum lie to me.

Also, not voting RR today.

This is completely out of the blue. ash, care to explain your reasoning here?

He scumreads Robz and me. Which is a fairly comfortable position for scum, because what are the chances that either of us actually gets lynched on D1?

Nice case, actually.

Supports my Robz-is-faust's-partner theory.

In response to Jake's Robz case. I'm sure ash would have been a lot more critical of that post if he did not already have this theory. This post illustrates ash's play which usually is all about confirmation bias. It's towny more than scummy I suppose.

I don't feel it really. Maybe we should just vote: mcmc

Or RR. That would be acceptable as well.

I'm okay with either of those lynches. Mmc is lurking big time. Vote: mcmcsalot

Is there any lynch you are NOT ok with?

Joseph. And also the Wine Merchant: a newbie working this hard on Day 1 should be rewarded with survival.

Huge scum tell here from Robz.  Enough to move my vote.  vote: robz

Would like to know what you thought the scum tell was here. - Nevermind, was explained later on.

Anybody down for a Roadrunner quicklynch?

I will point out that Faust last mentioned RR as an acceptable lynch candidate.

That's lots of love going on.

I will just point out that it is these kinds of posts that I think tied Robz and me together in ash's head. And they're all coming from Robz; I haven't done any buddying.

Towards the end of the day, ash defends gkrieg and Awaclus. If they're all town, this doesn't really make sense. He also suggests a no lynch.

I mean, I would just never ever ever ever ever ever actually go down this way as scum.

Well I wouldn't have lynched you if you hadn't claimed VT. Just didn't seem that big a loss this way.

Which is why I never claim VT unless I'm actually VT!

Or scum.  I'm fairly sure you've claimed VT as scum.  Maybe even on D1.

Still, you were the right lynch today, even if you weren't the correct one.

Not exactly sure what this means. There were certainly better lynches than Robz possible.

The Robz lynch was fantastic -- the best possible mislynch.  VT is the best role to have to lose, Robz is too dangerous to leave alive if he's not an IC, it gave us a lot of fantastic interactions at the end.

Anyone decrying the lynch as bad is bad.

Also, vote: faust

Do I buy this? Maybe. I mean sure there are worse things than lynching a claimed VT, but what about lynching scum? Also, by that metric (too dangerous to leave alive), we should probably lynch ash next.


So, I'm not sure. There are a bunch of town-indicating posts, nothing that really stands out. I see the overall strategy that ash uses to approach the game as a scummy one though (scumread the players that have been around long enough to know him, so that he can point to OMGUS when they start scumreading him).

On the other hand, I don't really think a scum team with ash in it would kill Calamitas.

[faust]

For some reason today feels like LyLo to me. I really want to figure this game out. I'm starting to realize that it might be too early for that.

[ashersky]

Fair reread by Faust there.

[ashersky]

For some reason today feels like LyLo to me. I really want to figure this game out. I'm starting to realize that it might be too early for that.

Not sure why you feel that way.  This setup is familiar.

You are all sorts of different.  Maybe it's just been awhile?

[gkrieg13]

For some reason today feels like LyLo to me. I really want to figure this game out. I'm starting to realize that it might be too early for that.

Not sure why you feel that way.  This setup is familiar.

You are all sorts of different.  Maybe it's just been awhile?

No he definitely feels different this game.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so first off my thoughts on fausts case on roadrunner it has some validity but I think overall is pretty weak and doesn't make me find Faust any townier.

I agree rr finding Joseph towny pre claim is scummy, but I mentioned this very thing about Faust in my case on him and he claimed it wasn't scummy. I think the weird votig and inviting of jake is due to really wanting to continue pushing a jake lynch and being frustrated that other players are preventing it because they won't lynch jake day one and not because of a town read. This is backed up I think by roadrunners refusal to do jakes top 3 plan which I don't think is buddying me it's just smart. Then the weirdness around the robz wagon which I do think is scummy and lots of general useless back and forth with jake.

Overall I really don't think it's a strong case and makes Faust come out looking scummier in my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

Again I think this is pretty over exaggerated, jake has been as much anti town and you constantly defend him, Joseph has been anti town though you can't vote him. You could say I'm pretty anti toe with how limited I have been able to be around.

[faust]

Okay so first off my thoughts on fausts case on roadrunner it has some validity but I think overall is pretty weak and doesn't make me find Faust any townier.

I agree rr finding Joseph towny pre claim is scummy, but I mentioned this very thing about Faust in my case on him and he claimed it wasn't scummy. I think the weird votig and inviting of jake is due to really wanting to continue pushing a jake lynch and being frustrated that other players are preventing it because they won't lynch jake day one and not because of a town read. This is backed up I think by roadrunners refusal to do jakes top 3 plan which I don't think is buddying me it's just smart. Then the weirdness around the robz wagon which I do think is scummy and lots of general useless back and forth with jake.

Overall I really don't think it's a strong case and makes Faust come out looking scummier in my opinion.

*sigh*

[faust]

Also I actually found Joseph scummy early D1; not intially, but then I got convinced - what do you make of that?

[mcmcsalot]

As to gkrieg's case on EFHW, I just don't think EFHW comes off that scummy. I think the day one lynch was pretty botched from the quelling of natural cases and the forcing of would lynch consolidation so early and then arguments dominating the discussion. Oh also I think EFHW's defense was solid, still town reading her.

[mcmcsalot]

I know they are rereads not cases but the rr reread did end in you voting him so it's kinda a case man.

Also I actually found Joseph scummy early D1; not intially, but then I got convinced - what do you make of that?

So I may need to re read early early day one but I remember you found Joseph towny early day one then when we got super close to lynching him you came around to thinking he's scummy(I think because it would be worth it for scum to flip a read if it gets an early town lynch) and then Joseph claimed.

So you are saying before you found him scummy then were convinced he was towny, then flipped again to support his lynch?

[mcmcsalot]

Ah here it is!

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

And then yes shortly thereafter

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

And then eventually

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

Mostly because I'm less worried about scum!RR than about, say, scum!EFHW or scum!ash.

reply 1148

But but but

I like a TWM/mcmc/RR team right now.

I also don't like posts about scum teams. I could fit in ash somewhere up there I suppose.

reply 1123

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

[mcmcsalot]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

You are also acti-lurking. The fact that you think something is scummy that you yourself are doing is quite telling of your alignment.

So this looks scummy to me, I think awac is lurking pretty hard himself so super weird to call jake out for calling rr out about it.

[mcmcsalot]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

I'm with you.  Just want to sort out gkrieg first, see if that wagon will fly/roll.

What's your full case on gkrieg?

[mcmcsalot]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

I could get behind a gkrieg lynch though I think it's objectively worse than mine on Faust.

Faust/gkrieg/awa?

[faust]

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

Why would scum!me be willing to put Joseph to L-1? I don't think that's a move that I am particularly likely to make as scum; it only makes me look bad and achieves nothing else.

[mcmcsalot]

I still think lynching one of RR or jake is the way to go. The cases that are being presented on other: gkrieg, EFHW, awaclus just aren't doing it for me.

Cases on those two are always going to seem stronger than cases on the rest of us. I guess I'm up for either of them, though.  Which would be more informative?  I'm thinking Jake would be since he has actually said stuff.

I agree with EFHW though I think a jake lynch is still worse than a Faust/gkrieg lynch, I feel like inactive town(myself included) is making it seem like no one agrees with the cases on anyone but obviously anti-town players and I think scum is happy letting that happen.

[faust]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

I could get behind a gkrieg lynch though I think it's objectively worse than mine on Faust.

Faust/gkrieg/awa?

You are way off.

What do you make of gkrieg's townslip? Do you think it was fake?

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

[mcmcsalot]

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

Why would scum!me be willing to put Joseph to L-1? I don't think that's a move that I am particularly likely to make as scum; it only makes me look bad and achieves nothing else.

Ugh post deletion again.....

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

[faust]

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

That would be true, except an L-1 wagon that early on leads to a lynch maybe 10% of the time. That's just not a prospect that seems worth the risk.

[mcmcsalot]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

Okay I agree scum!efhw and scum!ash are more dangerous.

Both of these people have not fallen into the just lynch the easy candidate or the come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements, I think scum is even more likely to go along with it. Ash is also trying to get you lynched and has similar reads to me, EFHW I similarly has reads I agree with and defended me with solid reasons when I was under suspicion.

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

Okay I agree scum!efhw and scum!ash are more dangerous.

Both of these people have not fallen into the just lynch the easy candidate or the come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements, I think scum is even more likely to go along with it. Ash is also trying to get you lynched and has similar reads to me, EFHW I similarly has reads I agree with and defended me with solid reasons when I was under suspicion.

Isn't gkrieg's whole point on EFHW that she did just that?

[mcmcsalot]

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

That would be true, except an L-1 wagon that early on leads to a lynch maybe 10% of the time. That's just not a prospect that seems worth the risk.

That's an outrageous statistic, yea day one is the day we make the most wagons and those wagons often don't lead to a lynch because the person in question claims and we believe them. You know what else scum wants, to know what roles everyone has. Win win.

[faust]

"has reads I agree with" and "defended me" are very bad things to base your reads on.

[mcmcsalot]

"has reads I agree with" and "defended me" are very bad things to base your reads on.

In isolation when you put it like that yea. Her reads aligning with mine i don't think is terrible to base a read on and it is not that she defended me, it is that I know I am town and I think she correctly defended me using logic and reasoning that makes sense, and it is consistent with her reads on me in the past. Unlike your floppy floppy defense of Joseph and your bad reasons for finding jake towny earlier on.

[mcmcsalot]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

[faust]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

Him not realizing that Calamitas has been nightkilled.

[Awaclus]

So this looks scummy to me, I think awac is lurking pretty hard himself so super weird to call jake out for calling rr out about it.

No, I'm the exact opposite of acti-lurking. I haven't posted that much, but all of my posts have something worthwhile in them. If you look at Jake's posts, he has posted a ton, but not all that much of it is useful.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

The post that mcmc referenced is the one that jumped out to me as well. And I am still not sure I like your response either. Why not just vote for who you think is most likely to be mafia? How big of a difference can the threat from one be to the other? More than the difference in how you read them? I would get it, if you thought they were equally likely to be mafia.

[Awaclus]

Not to mention that I had a reason for keeping low profile D1 because I didn't want to stand out as a PR, and now I have a reason to not be the driving force behind the game because everyone knows that I'm a PR.

[faust]

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

That would be true, except an L-1 wagon that early on leads to a lynch maybe 10% of the time. That's just not a prospect that seems worth the risk.

That's an outrageous statistic, yea day one is the day we make the most wagons and those wagons often don't lead to a lynch because the person in question claims and we believe them. You know what else scum wants, to know what roles everyone has. Win win.

I guess I just don't get your point that people who found Joseph towny are scummy and people who voted for him are scummy too.

[mcmcsalot]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

Him not realizing that Calamitas has been nightkilled.

Oh yea, so I have to check who is in the game and alive pretty evenly when I am scum and when I am town, I'm not sure that says much. Yea I mean if anything I think it's unlikely town or scum makes that mistake so slight chance he made the mistake on purpose hoping it would look towny.

As for his actual case on EFHW, it starts with a read on EFHW based on me being scum since the other two wagons he says were on town. This makes sense from his reads but I obviously know I'm not scum and I don't know why he finds awa so towny. Then he finds EFHW scummy for urging people to stay on the mislynches, and that's a valid point if we knew both wagons would be mislynches but we don't, and the way EFHW said it sounded pretty much like hey mcmc I like you case but you should pay attention to the current wagons.

So I don't really agree with this case.

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

The post that mcmc referenced is the one that jumped out to me as well. And I am still not sure I like your response either. Why not just vote for who you think is most likely to be mafia? How big of a difference can the threat from one be to the other? More than the difference in how you read them? I would get it, if you thought they were equally likely to be mafia.

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

[mcmcsalot]

So this looks scummy to me, I think awac is lurking pretty hard himself so super weird to call jake out for calling rr out about it.

No, I'm the exact opposite of acti-lurking. I haven't posted that much, but all of my posts have something worthwhile in them. If you look at Jake's posts, he has posted a ton, but not all that much of it is useful.

Gotcha acti-lurk vs actual lurk, I think jake is trying to be useful he just isn't. Though today has been much more uselessness and less badness so I can see that

[faust]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

Him not realizing that Calamitas has been nightkilled.

Oh yea, so I have to check who is in the game and alive pretty evenly when I am scum and when I am town, I'm not sure that says much. Yea I mean if anything I think it's unlikely town or scum makes that mistake so slight chance he made the mistake on purpose hoping it would look towny.

What? As scum, you talk all night over who you should kill, so it's pretty obvious that you are more likely to remember who you ended up killing. I can't really understand how you don't see that.

[mcmcsalot]

Not to mention that I had a reason for keeping low profile D1 because I didn't want to stand out as a PR, and now I have a reason to not be the driving force behind the game because everyone knows that I'm a PR.

Not convinced your claim is true and I think you may be acti-actual-lurking knowing you have this defense lined up. I don't think just because you claimed yesterday that means your best way to help town is have a low profile.

[mcmcsalot]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

Him not realizing that Calamitas has been nightkilled.

Oh yea, so I have to check who is in the game and alive pretty evenly when I am scum and when I am town, I'm not sure that says much. Yea I mean if anything I think it's unlikely town or scum makes that mistake so slight chance he made the mistake on purpose hoping it would look towny.

What? As scum, you talk all night over who you should kill, so it's pretty obvious that you are more likely to remember who you ended up killing. I can't really understand how you don't see that.

Sorry as town and scum I need to check who is alive when I make a reads post or decide to re-read all the time. It's not like he opened the day voting calamitous or something, like I said I don't really think it means anything.

[faust]

Then he finds EFHW scummy for urging people to stay on the mislynches, and that's a valid point if we knew both wagons would be mislynches but we don't, and the way EFHW said it sounded pretty much like hey mcmc I like you case but you should pay attention to the current wagons.

come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements [...]

But you do see that these two posts contradict each other?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

The post that mcmc referenced is the one that jumped out to me as well. And I am still not sure I like your response either. Why not just vote for who you think is most likely to be mafia? How big of a difference can the threat from one be to the other? More than the difference in how you read them? I would get it, if you thought they were equally likely to be mafia.

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

So do you actually want to lynch EFHW or just voting for there for insight to see if you will want to vote for EFHW? I am sorry if I am being dumb here, but I feel like you are playing a different game than me. Maybe that is just inexperience talking, so I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, but this just seems to be a sneaky way to operate.

[mcmcsalot]

Then he finds EFHW scummy for urging people to stay on the mislynches, and that's a valid point if we knew both wagons would be mislynches but we don't, and the way EFHW said it sounded pretty much like hey mcmc I like you case but you should pay attention to the current wagons.

come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements [...]

But you do see that these two posts contradict each other?

Yea since you keep scummily taking out my context. When EFHW said that I did not take it as you and gkrieg have as "only vote for these people" I took it as "Hey super glad you are here and have thought but maybe take a look at the wagons we are actually about to lynch instead of starting a whole new case right now." She even goes on to vote rr at one point after which isn't one of the main wagons. The "come on these are the only wagons we can lynch" statement was referring to people like jake and you supporting early on to try and find a consensus 3 people we will lynch from.

[Awaclus]

Not to mention that I had a reason for keeping low profile D1 because I didn't want to stand out as a PR, and now I have a reason to not be the driving force behind the game because everyone knows that I'm a PR.

Not convinced your claim is true and I think you may be acti-actual-lurking knowing you have this defense lined up. I don't think just because you claimed yesterday that means your best way to help town is have a low profile.

Well, I'm probably going to be an IC eventually unless I'm killed, so for that reason alone, it's better if I'm not that vocal about my reads. Furthermore, I might or might not have a RB shot left, and whether or not I have the shot is something that scum would surely want to know, and knowing exactly what kinds of reads I have would help scum figure that out. What's more, if and only if I still have the shot left, scum might also want to know who I would use it on so that they know what abilities of theirs they should use, and again, my reads are crucial there as well, so for that reason also, I have to not be too vocal about my reads regardless of whether or not I still have the shot because otherwise I would be giving away that information again.

Since we're talking about a fairly weak town role, the benefits are probably marginal, but I believe they're there regardless.

[gkrieg13]

Ok a full reread of EFHW (this one is actually a reread!)

I think this is town!Joseph. Remember that time he did weird stuff in a neighborhood, and got mislynched? I agree with faust that this was too involved to be a scum!plot.

She defends Joseph (which I don't think is scummy, I just remember you guys giving me a scum read because of it (I'm looking at you faust))

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

vote: mcmc. He's lurking and the above post is kind of too pro-town, and also incorrect since Joseph started his thing before faust voted gkrieg.

btw, hi mcmc!

She then votes for mcmcsalot, with strange reasoning.

And vote: Robz again.

I cannot imagine this sentiment (lynching a claimed UB without counterclaim) coming from town!Robz unless he is UB or Mason.

I agree, but I still not see a narrative that makes sense for robz. If he is actually a UB he is going to get killed due to his behavior anyways, in that regard it's identical to a claim. If we actually lynch Joseph and he flips town, robz is going to be under heaviest suspicion. Neither scum!robz nor non-mason/UB!robz would want that.

Scum!Robz would expect to be able to talk his way out of being lynched Day 2, since he's done so before.  So I don't think this argument holds in this case.

vote: Robz

Then she votes for Robz

Liar liar liar. You were the one doing that. I said definitively we should lynch him in lieu of a counterclaim, and then you raised the possibility that maybe the real UB was keeping quiet.

I didn't pay enough attention to keep track of who had already posted after Joseph's claim, I just wanted to keep the possibility open for the real UB to keep quiet in case it was a fakeclaim. Then it looked like you were hopping onto that opportunity so I figured you must be the real UB.

Robz's unvote and comments right after the claim seemed to me like he was not the UB himself.

I don't like the way he called Awaclus a liar.  Both because it's unfair and because I can read it as towny or scummy.

Even after the Robz vote, she is unsure of his alignment.

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

Now this is scummy.  If she believes both of them, why not unvote?

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

Then votes for me.

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

This is part of her reasoning.  The only problem is that she also came up with this theory, or at least went with it:

It seemed to me that Robz did think Awaclus was soft-claiming, because he asked if Awaclus was staying on Joseph. The problem is the similarity of his arguments here with his arguments in past games in which he got PRs mislynched.

So how can she say that scum!me "came up with an observation" when she agreed with it!

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.u

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

So you think he is pretending to not pay attention by pretending to pay attention?

!  No.  On two separate occasions - when I asked him who his scumreads were and when he voted for Robz, he stated he wasn't paying attention. I'm thinking that is feigned indifference. The Robz case was, perhaps, an attempt to use the parallel and Robz's past successes as scum to get Robz lynched.

So now at this point, her case on me is growing, and has two components.  One is my "feigned indifference", which makes sense, if you really think that it wasn't real.  But anyone who has been in a game with me recently knows that I just don't get into D1 as much as I used to anymore.  Her second point is what I stated earlier as being very misleading.

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

She keeps going after this scum narrative for my case against Robz, which I will once again point out, she agreed with!

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

I'm open to a Calamitas lynch, or mcmc. I think we generally want to let RR and Jake live to Day 2 because they always are getting mislynched Day 1. The pass is both for their sakes and because it has become considered scummy to vote for them Day 1.

Here, she seems overly cautious to vote for someone who it is considered scummy to vote for.

Your points about Robz are plausible, though. I won't rule out a Robz vote.

Then she kind of does this 180 on Robz again.

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

She also does this 180 on mcmcsalot, right at the crucial point where pivoting her attention off of him ensures that the wagons are all on townies.  This is also a reason that doesn't really mean anything.

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

Then she continues to try to get votes only onto the wagons that already exist.

Weird that the gkrieg lynch isn't happening, given so many people expressed willingness to vote him. A possible sign he is scum. If it's not going to happen, I'll switch my vote to Robz.

Then she kind of locks in that she is going to vote for Robz, even after her whole case on me is that my case on Robz was scum motivated.  Like if she really believes that, why would she ever vote for him?

So that is my whole reread of EFHW from D1.

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

The post that mcmc referenced is the one that jumped out to me as well. And I am still not sure I like your response either. Why not just vote for who you think is most likely to be mafia? How big of a difference can the threat from one be to the other? More than the difference in how you read them? I would get it, if you thought they were equally likely to be mafia.

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

So do you actually want to lynch EFHW or just voting for there for insight to see if you will want to vote for EFHW? I am sorry if I am being dumb here, but I feel like you are playing a different game than me. Maybe that is just inexperience talking, so I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, but this just seems to be a sneaky way to operate.

I don't know who I want to lynch. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Maybe you, after all. I don't feel that great about EFHW anymore, she did have that towny thing with the Robz wagon.

Vote: TWM

[mcmcsalot]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

The post that mcmc referenced is the one that jumped out to me as well. And I am still not sure I like your response either. Why not just vote for who you think is most likely to be mafia? How big of a difference can the threat from one be to the other? More than the difference in how you read them? I would get it, if you thought they were equally likely to be mafia.

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

So do you actually want to lynch EFHW or just voting for there for insight to see if you will want to vote for EFHW? I am sorry if I am being dumb here, but I feel like you are playing a different game than me. Maybe that is just inexperience talking, so I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, but this just seems to be a sneaky way to operate.

I think you are getting a bit hung up. It is understandable that if he thinks EFHW/ash/rr are scum rr is going to be much less impactful of a scum player than EFHW or ash therefor he wants to go after them instead. I think it is scummy however to make statements like the bolded one above and trying to set up multiple lynches. So I think it's scummy with a town rational which is why he did it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know who I want to lynch. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Maybe you, after all. I don't feel that great about EFHW anymore, she did have that towny thing with the Robz wagon.

Vote: TWM

Making me feel really good about asking questions here.

[faust]

Then he finds EFHW scummy for urging people to stay on the mislynches, and that's a valid point if we knew both wagons would be mislynches but we don't, and the way EFHW said it sounded pretty much like hey mcmc I like you case but you should pay attention to the current wagons.

come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements [...]

But you do see that these two posts contradict each other?

Yea since you keep scummily taking out my context. When EFHW said that I did not take it as you and gkrieg have as "only vote for these people" I took it as "Hey super glad you are here and have thought but maybe take a look at the wagons we are actually about to lynch instead of starting a whole new case right now." She even goes on to vote rr at one point after which isn't one of the main wagons. The "come on these are the only wagons we can lynch" statement was referring to people like jake and you supporting early on to try and find a consensus 3 people we will lynch from.

I just fail to see the different. Other than I never wanted to find 3 people we will lynch from.

[gkrieg13]

Also I need to reread gkriegs case on EFHW as well as what was the township you are referring to?

Him not realizing that Calamitas has been nightkilled.

Oh yea, so I have to check who is in the game and alive pretty evenly when I am scum and when I am town, I'm not sure that says much. Yea I mean if anything I think it's unlikely town or scum makes that mistake so slight chance he made the mistake on purpose hoping it would look towny.

What? As scum, you talk all night over who you should kill, so it's pretty obvious that you are more likely to remember who you ended up killing. I can't really understand how you don't see that.

I will tell you that for me, I'm a very tactical scum player, and there is no way that I would forget who we killed.  So really the only two options are genuine or faked townslip.

[faust]

I don't know who I want to lynch. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Maybe you, after all. I don't feel that great about EFHW anymore, she did have that towny thing with the Robz wagon.

Vote: TWM

Making me feel really good about asking questions here.

What's that supposed to mean? I did answer your question, no? Should I have been nicer about thinking you're scum?

[mcmcsalot]

Then he finds EFHW scummy for urging people to stay on the mislynches, and that's a valid point if we knew both wagons would be mislynches but we don't, and the way EFHW said it sounded pretty much like hey mcmc I like you case but you should pay attention to the current wagons.

come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements [...]

But you do see that these two posts contradict each other?

Yea since you keep scummily taking out my context. When EFHW said that I did not take it as you and gkrieg have as "only vote for these people" I took it as "Hey super glad you are here and have thought but maybe take a look at the wagons we are actually about to lynch instead of starting a whole new case right now." She even goes on to vote rr at one point after which isn't one of the main wagons. The "come on these are the only wagons we can lynch" statement was referring to people like jake and you supporting early on to try and find a consensus 3 people we will lynch from.

I just fail to see the different. Other than I never wanted to find 3 people we will lynch from.

Omg I'm not taking the time to pull quotes, maybe later but you supported jakes plan to find a concencus three people that everyone would and then limit the vote pool to those thee people. I know because it's what I spent almost all day one yelling at Jake for proposing and saying we should just let cases come naturally via reads and you argued with me about it!!!!

Jeezus other townines want to chime in here, I'm done going back and forth with Faust on this, you are a good player, you will have a defense however bad and scummy to everything I say and you are robzfuscating my case on you by making it harder for people to follow the actual points. You are playing a great active scummy game.

[faust]

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

So do you actually want to lynch EFHW or just voting for there for insight to see if you will want to vote for EFHW? I am sorry if I am being dumb here, but I feel like you are playing a different game than me. Maybe that is just inexperience talking, so I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, but this just seems to be a sneaky way to operate.

I think you are getting a bit hung up. It is understandable that if he thinks EFHW/ash/rr are scum rr is going to be much less impactful of a scum player than EFHW or ash therefor he wants to go after them instead. I think it is scummy however to make statements like the bolded one above and trying to set up multiple lynches. So I think it's scummy with a town rational which is why he did it.

"Setting up multiple lynches"? How is saying that scum!RR always gets lynched setting up multiple lynches?

[faust]

I just fail to see the different. Other than I never wanted to find 3 people we will lynch from.

Omg I'm not taking the time to pull quotes, maybe later but you supported jakes plan to find a concencus three people that everyone would and then limit the vote pool to those thee people. I know because it's what I spent almost all day one yelling at Jake for proposing and saying we should just let cases come naturally via reads and you argued with me about it!!!!

Jeezus other townines want to chime in here, I'm done going back and forth with Faust on this, you are a good player, you will have a defense however bad and scummy to everything I say and you are robzfuscating my case on you by making it harder for people to follow the actual points. You are playing a great active scummy game.

Like I said before, I supported Jake's plan because I wanted to encourage the more pro-town way of playing I was seeing from him and because I thought it would be insightful to see scum scum reads posted, not because I actually wanted to limit the lynch pool to these. Thinking that something like this would ever work is quite naive.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know who I want to lynch. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Maybe you, after all. I don't feel that great about EFHW anymore, she did have that towny thing with the Robz wagon.

Vote: TWM

Making me feel really good about asking questions here.

What's that supposed to mean? I did answer your question, no? Should I have been nicer about thinking you're scum?

I had hoped you would explain your thinking and approach. You are right that you answered my question. I should have asked another question and been more clear. The question I really wanted answered had to do with what your approach is and why it makes sense? That is what I am trying to understand. Not just what you are doing, but why you are doing it and whether it makes sense and I am just trying to understand that.

I don't really mind the vote. But I would hope that you would be willing to let me ask questions and try and figure out how to better play this game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Plus throughout the game you have been a real downer whenever I have tried to ask questions or probe for answers. I feel like you want me to be an expert at this game when it just isn't possible for me to be one at this point.

[mcmcsalot]

An RR lynch just does not give us much to go on going forward even if he flips scum. His partner are probably willing to bus him because really RR is going to get lynched at some point anyway and so the interactions of an RR wagon are mostly useless.

One could still lynch RR in the end, but it's better to spend the mid-day with wagons that are more insightful.

So do you actually want to lynch EFHW or just voting for there for insight to see if you will want to vote for EFHW? I am sorry if I am being dumb here, but I feel like you are playing a different game than me. Maybe that is just inexperience talking, so I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, but this just seems to be a sneaky way to operate.

I think you are getting a bit hung up. It is understandable that if he thinks EFHW/ash/rr are scum rr is going to be much less impactful of a scum player than EFHW or ash therefor he wants to go after them instead. I think it is scummy however to make statements like the bolded one above and trying to set up multiple lynches. So I think it's scummy with a town rational which is why he did it.

"Setting up multiple lynches"? How is saying that scum!RR always gets lynched setting up multiple lynches?

Look at the two bolded statements...yes saying he always gets lynched isn't setting up multiple lynches, saying he is going to get lynched is GAHHHH YOU ARE SO SCUMMMMMYYYYY

[ashersky]

I'm not sure Faust looks scummier after this prolonged engagement with mom salon.

[ashersky]

So, mostly just reading along and my town reads on Awa, mom salon, and gkrieg remain.

Ironically, Faust keeps moving from outright scummy to oddly scummy.

RR, EFHW, Jake, TWM are all lynchable.

And then someone is clearly forgettable as that only makes eight reads.

[ashersky]

Oh, right, the SKIC.  He is ignorable, I guess.

[faust]

Plus throughout the game you have been a real downer whenever I have tried to ask questions or probe for answers. I feel like you want me to be an expert at this game when it just isn't possible for me to be one at this point.

I think you are a lot better at it than you make yourself out to be.

Also when I started here, it was always a downer for me when people didn't treat me seriously because I was "just a newbie". I thought of giving you the same treatment as everyone else as a sign of respect. Sorry if it hasn't been received that way.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Plus throughout the game you have been a real downer whenever I have tried to ask questions or probe for answers. I feel like you want me to be an expert at this game when it just isn't possible for me to be one at this point.

I think you are a lot better at it than you make yourself out to be.

Also when I started here, it was always a downer for me when people didn't treat me seriously because I was "just a newbie". I thought of giving you the same treatment as everyone else as a sign of respect. Sorry if it hasn't been received that way.

Well I don't know if I am any good is kind of the question for me at this point. Like, are my reads any good? I don't know until people are lynched or we reach the end of the game. Like, I don't have a baseline. I don't know if the approach I am taking is working or not. So I am trying to see how other people are doing it, even if I don't know if they are town or not because I am assuming they are at least trying to mimic their approach if they are mafia and see if their approach is one I want to use.

And you haven't been disrespectful. You have been fine. But it is frustrating when me trying to figure out how to play the game is seen as something scummy. I guess it is understandable and part of the game, so I don't really blame you for it, but it is still frustrating. Maybe I just need to play and then ask the questions at the end of the game?

[faust]

I had hoped you would explain your thinking and approach. You are right that you answered my question. I should have asked another question and been more clear. The question I really wanted answered had to do with what your approach is and why it makes sense? That is what I am trying to understand. Not just what you are doing, but why you are doing it and whether it makes sense and I am just trying to understand that.

I don't really mind the vote. But I would hope that you would be willing to let me ask questions and try and figure out how to better play this game.

Okay, trying to answer. It's all about the long game. We might lynch RR today, he might be scum. Okay, great. But where does that leave us? We still need to find two other scums. And I just don't think an RR lynch helps us doing that. Even if RR is scum, two more scums are out there. I think finding one of them is much better. And given that I have quite a few town reads the chances of hitting another scum aren't all bad.

RR is the kind of scum player that scum wants to sacrifice at some point. When I draw scum, I look at my team to see who of them is expendable. That person I won't bother defending or bussing artificially hard unless the game situation really calls for it. Basically I want my read on them to be as natural as possible, and if that means they end up being lynched, fine. RR is likely to end up being that person (though this also depends on stuff like PRs).

I'm jumpy because I want to find the other scumhunting. Scumhunting is like an iterative algorithm for me. I place a vote, look what happens. When I'm voting the next time, my reads are already a better approximation of who is actually scum. THen I continue. Sometimes there's a recent thing that I find super scummy, and then voting there is a good way to see wo thinks the same. But then I think about that player more and maybe I remember something that makes them look townie, and I realize that that one post isn't really enough to justify a lynch. The vote was a bit overly spontaneous, but since that leads to good interactions, I don't force myself to be more restrained.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm not sure Faust looks scummier after this prolonged engagement with mom salon.

And I shall here on out refer to him as faust the faustibusterer

[The_Wine_Merchant]

OK. Thanks for answering. I think I get what you are getting at. In my mind I see RR-Jake being partners and a correct lynch on one I think would be indicative of the other. But if you don't see that being likely or possible, I guess I can understand why you might take that approach.

And maybe I am psyching myself out a bit and being attracted to what I think I can better understand. You and EFHW and mcmcsalot and ashersky are all somewhat blending together a bit with posts that sound good and have substance but that contradict each other and are difficult to parse to what the alignment is underneath. Whereas Jake and RR I feel like I can more easily see through them and they look like mafia. Like I don't feel confident about my reads on you four very much at all. I see one post that looks mafia like, then I see another that looks town like and a bunch I just don't even know how to read. But just about everything from Jake and RR get my attention.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So I guess I'll try to look at those individuals that I have been null on the last few days:


 - ashersky -

Hard to get anything out of Day1
Mostly faust-robz partners pushing

Changes from partners to faust-robz partnering. He has had kind of a slow fade-out away from that, with multiple posts stating it, but never actually unvoting. Almost feels like he is testing the waters. But I don't know what he would be testing.

 - EFHW -

I had forgotten that I was suspicious of EFHW early on Day1.
Has a post about not wanting to emotionally unvote Robz that I am finding townie
I think had a very similar approach to me for the Robz wagon when it picked back up again
I think others have said this and this is why I am picking up on it, but was very much shooting down other possible wagons toward the end of day1. Shoots down mcmcsalot, shoots down faust, but mildly tries to keep the gkrieg wagon alive.

Is on a similar page to me early on Jake and RR.
not a big fan of the case on gkrieg probably because the reason for the vote looks like using logic for something that I did that was very similar and I think a weak reason to suspect someone

 - mcmcasalot -

Obviously big story is being absent for good portions. That taints everything.
I like that he changed the focus in day1 and didn't give three reads and still think the idea that he caused chaos is pure crap.
Seems to get caught up in one-on-one arguments with specific individuals. Is this just a character trait? I feel like this would be less likely from scum as most of these arguments leave the other person not with the best feelings toward him.
Has also very much zeroed in on faust but was gone for all of end of day1, so couldn't see anything there.

Didn't really like him relying on a case from the previous day and start of day2.
I agree with only a handful of mcmc's post from day2. Apparently we are seeing things very differently

 - faust -

I am seeing mcmcsalot's posts about changing from joseph. I can see what mcmcsalot is saying, but I am not sure I totally agree with it. I feel like L-1 is an ok place to be for scum, but not necessarily the best spot. L-2 or L-3 I think would be "safer" if it had gone toward a lynch, I think. So if faust wanted to join to really get a lynch I think he would have done so earlier. It is worth noting that he L-1ed immediately after my vote. So I think either way, he saw what he thought was a good point (which it wasn't now that we know Joseph's alignment) and did what he did as town or did what he would as town
Changes opinions again on Robz, ends up hammering him. After hearing from faust just barely, this looks more like long-game logic.
Lots of moving around as we got closer to deadline. At first I thought this looked like he was trying to stop any wagons from growing, but when I went back it looked like he was trying to find alternatives to Robz and only hammered for long game?

Has moved around a lot day2 as has been stated.
I don't get why he has been so insistent that jake couldn't be mafia. Seems too confident in that regard.
I do feel like he is spinning me as mafia in a slightly unfair way. But we already talked about that.
Lots of rereads on people. So that is nice to know he is doing work.


I tried to read Awaclus. But really, the guy is being an enigma, which from his posts appears to be his goal. I don't have a clue what to think about him. I keep waiting for a moment to clear where I will understand him better, but it just isn't coming.


So to rank them in some manner I would put ashersky as probably the scummiest, followed by EFHW and then faust/mcmcsalot are combined for townier, but honestly, not super townie. Everyone is still kind of murky here. And I would still rather go for RR/Jake as I feel like what I get what I see from them.

[EFHW]

Comments in bold.

Ok a full reread of EFHW (this one is actually a reread!)
snipped ... Joseph ... mcmc ... Robz.  Not much to say here, except that mcmc's complaint about going back to RVS is the kind of pro-town thing scum like to do.

...
I don't like the way he called Awaclus a liar.  Both because it's unfair and because I can read it as towny or scummy.

Even after the Robz vote, she is unsure of his alignment. Of course I'm unsure, I'm town!

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

Now this is scummy.  If she believes both of them, why not unvote? I did explain this later as a reaction to my recent past games with Robz.

I'll go with vote:gkrieg. His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act.

I thought he brought up a really good point about Robz previously pushing for claimed PR lynch as mafia. He would have had to have been paying attention to notice that.

Right. I think it's an act. I think scum!gkrieg came up with that observation of Robz, given how he continued to push it after doubt had been created.

This is part of her reasoning.  The only problem is that she also came up with this theory, or at least went with it:

It seemed to me that Robz did think Awaclus was soft-claiming, because he asked if Awaclus was staying on Joseph. The problem is the similarity of his arguments here with his arguments in past games in which he got PRs mislynched.

So how can she say that scum!me "came up with an observation" when she agreed with it!
The observation was accurate.  My interpretation of your motives changed, or at least I realized your making that observation was compatible with a scum!gkrieg narrative if Robz was town. Part of my suspicion of you came about because after Robz had presented his defense, you restated your theory without acknowledging it.  This seemed like you were trying to push through his lynch no matter what.
...

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

I feel like you still don't get my point.  I'm not saying he isn't paying attention.  I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town.  I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.

I am using faust's suggestion, as well.  But I won't vote Awaclus, who I think is town, and whom he also fingered with suspicion.

She keeps going after this scum narrative for my case against Robz, which I will once again point out, she agreed with! That's not a contradiction.  See above.

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.
snip ...

I'm open to a Calamitas lynch, or mcmc. I think we generally want to let RR and Jake live to Day 2 because they always are getting mislynched Day 1. The pass is both for their sakes and because it has become considered scummy to vote for them Day 1.

Here, she seems overly cautious to vote for someone who it is considered scummy to vote for. No, I was responding to TWM's question about why did RR seem to be getting a pass.

Your points about Robz are plausible, though. I won't rule out a Robz vote.

Then she kind of does this 180 on Robz again. I really wasn't sure what Robz was.  I could see both narratives.  That's why I decided to vote him, because I knew we would all be so scared of his being scum that we, or at least I, would bounce back and forth until there was a flip, cluttering and confusing the game.

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

She also does this 180 on mcmcsalot, right at the crucial point where pivoting her attention off of him ensures that the wagons are all on townies.  This is also a reason that doesn't really mean anything. This is me weighing in on a proposed lynch so town knows I'm not likely to support it.

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

Then she continues to try to get votes only onto the wagons that already exist. 
Would there have been a faust lynch? No.  Was there a real possibility of a no lynch?  Yes.  That's what I was thinking.

Weird that the gkrieg lynch isn't happening, given so many people expressed willingness to vote him. A possible sign he is scum. If it's not going to happen, I'll switch my vote to Robz.

Then she kind of locks in that she is going to vote for Robz, even after her whole case on me is that my case on Robz was scum motivated.  Like if she really believes that, why would she ever vote for him?
see above. Also, I don't know you are scum.  Day 1 scum reads often contradict.  You know that.  I thought Robz was probably town, but I couldn't be sure and, as I have already said several times, I thought it would be a reasonable use of the lynch for town to know his flip rather than keeping him alive in all his ambiguity.

[EFHW]

Regarding my comment to mcmc about his faust vote, I remember I was also disappointed that he wasn't supporting the gkrieg wagon, and even more so when after I posted I realized he had left the gkrieg wagon to vote faust.  That's why I said three wagons but it seemed like there were only two after he voted.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

[schadd]

Request Prod on anyone eligible for Prod

none sent

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.6

faust (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 2.6

faust (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

So 2.5 days to go. And biggest wagon is my biggest town read

[EFHW]

I would be fine with a Robz lynch, an Awaclus lynch.  Not really feeling mcmc or RR.

Just found this. It comes 5 posts before my statement about not wanting to lynch mcmc, yet gkrieg has been accusing me of trying to deflect from an mcmc lynch.

[EFHW]

faust, first you said this:

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

...

[EFHW]

Then several pages later on the same day you said this:

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

Well that is not going to be a good enough reason for me to vote for him.

Well I cannot talk about the rest. But there is also stuff that makes me think Awaclus is probably not a good lynch for today.

What changed?

[faust]

Then several pages later on the same day you said this:

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

What don't you like about it?

It's hard to talk about.

Part of it is that town!Awaclus usually reads people the same way I do, and I don't see that here.

Well that is not going to be a good enough reason for me to vote for him.

Well I cannot talk about the rest. But there is also stuff that makes me think Awaclus is probably not a good lynch for today.

What changed?

See that?

[faust]

I will let you know once talking about it is a good idea.

[EFHW]

Here's an idea: Let's look at pairs of three.

Jake: Robz, gkrieg, EFHW
faust: gkrieg, Awaclus, RR
Awaclus: Robz, gkrieg, Jake
This really does not leave me with a good feeling at all. I don't know if Awaclus has previously suspected gkrieg, but if not then this is just too convenient. And the other two reads I just don't agree with at all.
TWM: EFHW, Calamitas, mcmc
Very nonconformist. I like it.
Robz: Awaclus, Idplay/ashersky, gkrieg
Joseph: gkrieg, Awaclus, Idplay/ahsersky

I think things sort of died down after this. I really don't like what Awaclus did here. In fact, I don't like this whole game from Awaclus.

On the same page you said this!

[faust]

I will let you know once talking about it is a good idea.

Just realized that actually, I can, since RMM38 ended.

I was reasonably convinced that Awaclus was scum in RMM38 after I died. He was very helpful, engaged and seemed to be really changing his playstyle there. And everyone townread him for it. Here he falls back into his old pattern. That makes me think he's likely town.

And now that game is over and he actually ended up being scum there, so my theory is solidified.

[faust]

On the same page you said this!

Yes, I was thinking about RMM38 in between probably.

[EFHW]

On the same page you said this!

Yes, I was thinking about RMM38 in between probably.

Glad you could clear that up.

[Awaclus]

Just realized that actually, I can, since RMM38 ended.

I was reasonably convinced that Awaclus was scum in RMM38 after I died. He was very helpful, engaged and seemed to be really changing his playstyle there. And everyone townread him for it. Here he falls back into his old pattern. That makes me think he's likely town.

And now that game is over and he actually ended up being scum there, so my theory is solidified.

I think it has more to do with the fact that I got pretty invested in RMM38 early on because it was my only game, so I wanted to maintain my level of investment in that game until the end even when this game started, and that came at the cost of not being able to be that invested in this game. I also thought it would be fine to not be so active because I was a PR. It's true, however, that I was scum there and town here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This is very unexpected given the post below from 1 day ago below and not something that a "quick reread" would be able to cause:

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

Plus this post from a few days before the one above.

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also want to know where Jake's 180 came from, but I can wait until Sunday night.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I also want to know where Jake's 180 came from, but I can wait until Sunday night.

But can we wait for you until Sunday night?

[EFHW]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

Except unfortunately this kind of switch isn't alignment-specific for Jake.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

Except unfortunately this kind of switch isn't alignment-specific for Jake.

It sounds like nothing is alignment-specific for Jake. Which I just don't buy at all. But mostly I want to know the rationale. I feel that has the potential to be more telling. Or rather I wanted to know it, because know he knows that we are waiting for rationale and I don't know if what he says will actually be truthful or sincere.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This is very unexpected given the post below from 1 day ago below and not something that a "quick reread" would be able to cause:

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

Plus this post from a few days before the one above.

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

These were all posted before the battery of cases against Faust that have made him seem scummy in my eyes

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This is very unexpected given the post below from 1 day ago below and not something that a "quick reread" would be able to cause:

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

Plus this post from a few days before the one above.

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

These were all posted before the battery of cases against Faust that have made him seem scummy in my eyes

Which cases? Did you agree with all the points? What did you agree with them about? What did you think of faust's defenses?

[EFHW]

I'm going to put all the elements of the case against gkrieg in one place and then see where we are.

1. What's in a name? 108: faust voted gkrieg's catalog of name abbreviations as anti-town because it prolonged RVS. I'm having trouble making this into a scumtell, and faust's threshhold for voting is pretty low. gkrieg followed up faust's vote with several questions about why.  Is that typical for town!gkrieg?

Then at 131 gkrieg says getting out of RVS early can cause mislynches. This was his third response to the vote. TWM then says "I feel like gkrieg is really defending himself here over something somewhat minor. I mean, the two people he is defending himself against aren't even voting for him." faust had moved on to McG by this time. So he seems defensive here, or he's putting in more throwaway comments, which also isn't good. 

2. A Word of Advice 204 gkrieg defends Jake from being lynched because of his behavior, then offers suggestions for Jake to improve his play.  I kind of thought we were done giving Jake suggestions - it's not like he hasn't heard that from many of us in many games. So this does seem like another unnecessary comment.  gkrieg's next several posts put pressure on Jake: questioning why he is in Jake's lynchpool (227), pointing out the OMGUS nature of Jake's scum-hunting (243), and challenging Jake on a contradiction about Joseph (291). Not sure what to make of the pressure on Jake now, but with a flip this could be helpful.

3. Not paying attention 295 I ask gkrieg who he thinks as scummy.  I've noticed he's been commenting but not taking any real positions.  At 297 he says "Don't know yet. Haven't been paying enough attention honestly." I feel skeptical about this.  He was advising/pressuring Jake through the 200's.  So he had to be paying close attention there.  And he's always immediately addressing any scumreads on him. 

This comes up again at 431, where he votes Robz and says "Haven't paid attention to vote counts". Maybe he is actually feeling lazy lately.  I don't know, but there had been 3 votes for Robz since the last vote count, so I think most town players would double check before voting. That's how I get to the idea that this a contrived nonchalance. 

When I voted him at 480, saying "His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act", he responded at 498 with "Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one." Plausible, I don't know.

4. History repeats itself Joseph does his stunt.  faust puts him to L-1, and Joseph claims UB.  faust posts but doesn't unvote.  I assume that is why gkrieg then voted faust at 332.  He doesn't actually give a reason.

374 is gkrieg's towniest post of the game: "I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be."

This post is where he realizes Robz is using the same arguments he did in M89 as scum. He also calls Joseph an IC.  Scum don't like there to be IC's, so that could be towny.

Here is the Robz post from M89.  It really is very similar.

...
But the big thing is, I don't believe Jake at all. So everything else is really beside the point. I absolutely still advocate his lynch. This is the claim scum makes--in fact, if I were Jake's partner, I would have told him to claim cop if he was in danger of being lynched, hoping to out a cop. I'm confident other vets very well may have done the same (in fact, maybe they did!). Lack of counterclaim means little in this setup.

So I'm still mega in favor of lynching Jake. More in favor of it, if anything.

He votes Robz.  Then at 457 he says "Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop."  This is a little odd.  Maybe he is feeling proud of his discovery, which is reasonable. But why mention the comment he made in the QT? It isn't evidence of anything. And there's that "honestly" again.  Maybe someone could check if he does say that all the time. 

What really bothers me about it is that by this time Robz had given his defense, that he thought Awaclus was soft-claiming, and there were reasons to believe him.  But gkrieg is still making the earlier case, even though this new information does change the picture quite a bit.

He sticks to his guns, advocating Robz or Awaclus lynches.  But when Robz is finally hammered and says he was town, at 844 gkrieg said "Thank goodness". I'm really curious what he could have meant by that.

5. faust's case 594 faust mostly found different examples than I did of posts that could be read as scummy.  I don't understand why supporting Joseph was scummy.  faust did mention gkrieg's restating his theory without acknowledging the new information.  He felt gkrieg was artificially trying to keep his activity up, an impression I also have. As he has done throughout the game, gkrieg answered most of the points with explanations (628), but I couldn't get any sense of his alignment through what he said.

612 mcmc votes gkrieg based on faust's case, gkrieg again addresses it with explanations.  Is that typical of how he plays as town?

6. Knowing Day 2, this is the quote I didn't like, because of his use of the word "know".

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

I realize this seems overly picky, but my feeling about it is that 1. he wanted to present himself as town, so he emphasized that would help his analysis and 2. town!gkrieg doesn't KNOW Awaclus was town, and he doesn't KNOW faust is town either, and faust is the basis for his townread on Awaclus.  I think he said "know" because he wanted to look towny, and then forgot that he couldn't actually know Awaclus's alignment as town.  It's a scumslip.  I know TWM doesn't agree, and did something similar, but I think this is worth making note of.

7. Rereading Soon after I voted gkrieg at 995 (for the knowing thing), he posts 1029 This is gkrieg's reread that ended with a vote on me. You can read my response at 1136. Suffice to say I had a lot of problems with it.

After my critique, gkrieg said it was a reread that ended with a vote, not an intention to make a case on me.  But he asks for responses to his "post on EFHW" at 1099, 1106, 1132, and 1134 where he reposts it. I think he was trying to undermine me because I was putting a lot of pressure on him.

I won't make a big deal about his thinking Calamitas is alive.  That could be anything.

1242  He does another reread of me.  You can find my responses at 1264. Basically I tried to clear up a series of misunderstandings.  This reread was more carefully done than the previous one, and it's hard not to have OMGUS, but I find the reasoning again pretty weak, yet presented as though it is strong.

This took much too long. Obviously, I get an overall scummy impression of gkrieg from this reread.  How does it add up for other people?

[EFHW]

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

Except unfortunately this kind of switch isn't alignment-specific for Jake.

It sounds like nothing is alignment-specific for Jake. Which I just don't buy at all. But mostly I want to know the rationale. I feel that has the potential to be more telling. Or rather I wanted to know it, because know he knows that we are waiting for rationale and I don't know if what he says will actually be truthful or sincere.

I try to focus on the other players and not get distracted by Jake's posts.

[faust]

Well I can say what I think of EFHW's case.

1. Being defensive is often a good way to move the game forward. I don't see much out of the ordinary in this.

2. Are you suggesting that his treatment of Jake is scummy? Because there's nothing indicating a read in this paragraph. So I suppose I can ignore it for now.

3. Hrm, the exchange with Jake is easy contributions either way, I don't understand why you say that one has to be paying close attention to do that. We know that gkrieg has been scum in another game meanwhile, that always drains a lot of resources.

I don't understand how faking to be disengaged is beneficial for scum!gkrieg.

4. So 374 is towny? Maybe a bit. Bit really it is just standard mafia theory and not in any way extraordinary. There is something towny about the frustration that resonates in this post, but the content really shouldn't sway you either way.

I definitely concede that gkrieg's treatment of the Robz wagon was scummy stuff.

5. Not much to say, as obviously it was my case and I thought the things in there were scummy. I don't get the spinning of gkrieg's explanations as a bad thing. I mean that's just good pro-town play.

6. I really don't buy the scumslip argument at all. How does saying "know" make gkrieg look towny? (I mean you imply that's why he said it, so could you clarify what you thought was going on in gkrieg's head?)

7. I don't think your fighting is very alignment-indicative. Also much of that argument relies on EFHW being town, so it's hard for me to buy into that.

I won't make a big deal about his thinking Calamitas is alive.  That could be anything.

I don't get how you can post a thorough analysis of a player and then simply skip the thing that is most worth analyzing. You say it could be "anything"; what does that mean?

[gkrieg13]

I will let you know once talking about it is a good idea.

Just realized that actually, I can, since RMM38 ended.

I was reasonably convinced that Awaclus was scum in RMM38 after I died. He was very helpful, engaged and seemed to be really changing his playstyle there. And everyone townread him for it. Here he falls back into his old pattern. That makes me think he's likely town.

And now that game is over and he actually ended up being scum there, so my theory is solidified.

That's too bad. I thought you were softing full town RB, which makes Awaclus claim slightly more believable.

[gkrieg13]

On phone so hard to respond to the whole case.

I don't know about 7, I honestly thought I was on to something with you (and still do) and felt like no one was listening to anything I said after I actually put time into a game when I was being scummy for not putting enough time in. I just wanted people to comment on my contributions to get me more involved in the game.

[EFHW]

Responding to faust.
-- gkrieg was saying that he could use his knowledge that he was town to get more insight from the wagons. That looked to me like an attempt to present himself as towny.

-- I think the advice to Jake was an unnecessary comment intended to make him seem active. So scummy in that sense.

-- His main defense is that he is more engaged as scum, so acting disengaged makes sense as an attempt to seem towny.

-- You said yourself you didn't like his vote for me, seeing as it was based in one post.

-- Either he genuinely forgot Calamitas was dead or he was faketownslipping. I don't know how to tell the difference.

[faust]

Well gkrieg is townier than EFHW, but I don't really want to lnch either of them today.

[faust]

Day end in 24 hours, and we're strictly in prod territory now. I know it's the weekend and all, but we need to make sure that people contribute tonight or tomorrow.

Request prod on ashersky, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well gkrieg is townier than EFHW, but I don't really want to lnch either of them today.

I agree.

If you aren't considering RR or Jake either, have you looked at ashersky?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well gkrieg is townier than EFHW, but I don't really want to lnch either of them today.

I agree.

If you aren't considering RR or Jake either, have you looked at ashersky?

Oh duh. You did a reread on him. ashersky called it fair. I forgot. Can you explain the part about not killing Calamitis?

[EFHW]

No one listened to me about teamlyle, either.

If gkrieg is scum, I think Jake would be a partner, so I'd also lynch there.

[Awaclus]

Jake is definitely a good place to lych.

[mcmcsalot]

No one listened to me about teamlyle, either.

If gkrieg is scum, I think Jake would be a partner, so I'd also lynch there.

I would still prefer faust but I would go for gkrieg.

[gkrieg13]

I will be around a little later.

[faust]

Well gkrieg is townier than EFHW, but I don't really want to lnch either of them today.

I agree.

If you aren't considering RR or Jake either, have you looked at ashersky?

Oh duh. You did a reread on him. ashersky called it fair. I forgot. Can you explain the part about not killing Calamitis?

I'd think ashersky would go for a more experienced player almost all of the time, and he would convince his partners if necessary.

[faust]

I realized that there is a thing that implicates someone, but I'm not sure it should be talked about since it has to do with nominations I received for the mafia game awards. It's probably nothing major.

[faust]

ash is still in my lynch pool for today simply due to PoE.

I'm also starting to like RR. He has done his big apology speech and then just vanished, and nobody seems to care.

[faust]

I guess with deadline approaching, some clarity to my reads should be provided:

Want to lynch: RR, TWM
Maybe want to lynch: ash
Would lynch: EFHW, mcmc
Might lynch over no lynch: gkrieg, Awaclus
Won't lynch: Jake, Joseph

[The_Wine_Merchant]

ash is still in my lynch pool for today simply due to PoE.

I'm also starting to like RR. He has done his big apology speech and then just vanished, and nobody seems to care.

For a nobody, you sure seem to like voting me

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You really WON'T lynch Jake?? That just baffles my mind.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.7

faust (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 19 hours.

Request prod on ashersky, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

mcmcsalot showed up; joseph is ineligible; ash prodded.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: RR?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

Yeah vote: RR!

[EFHW]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Explanation point this time instead of question mark in case anyone didn't notice.

[Roadrunner7671]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who? Me or TWM?

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 2.7

faust (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 19 hours.

Request prod on ashersky, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

mcmcsalot showed up; joseph is ineligible; ash prodded.

I'm here, but been like super busy.

PPE: Some

[The_Wine_Merchant]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who me? I was voting Jake. I wouldn't vote for gkrieg at this time.

[EFHW]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who? Me or TWM?

you

[The_Wine_Merchant]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who? Me or TWM?

If EFHW wasn't talking to you, then I'll ask the same question.

[Joseph2302]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

I still really think that faust is town.
I could do either jake or gkrieg lynches, would have a preference for gkrieg.

PPE: 3

[Roadrunner7671]

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who? Me or TWM?

you

I'd prefer not to vote for Jake but I guess I would because he's hard to read. I'd reread gkrieg before I'd vote for him, but right now I see no reason not to.

[Roadrunner7671]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

Just out of curiosity, why am I not in there?

[faust]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

Just out of curiosity, why am I not in there?

Good question!

Vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

Just out of curiosity, why am I not in there?

Good question!

Vote: RR

I'd prefer if you listened to the IC

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

Just as a reminder what you said:

You're all right. I took a step back from this game and took several minutes to read, and man I'm annoying. A few games ago I was a decent player, not amazing but respectable. But I've made a remarkable transition into a troll type of character. And it's not even Jake's my fault, I'm not blaming him for anything. I just need to play better. I have done literally nothing this game. Nothing at all. Normally I make a halfway bad case or contribute somehow, and I haven't done any of that. I've hardly voted, I haven't contributed anything, and I've even started annoying myself. I don't want to start turning into a bad player just because I like to mess around, but I feel like I might be headed down that path, which totally blows. I don't even really care about being 'quirky' or 'unique,' that'll either come naturally or it won't, and either way I'm fine. But my behavior and my play hasn't been up to any standards or precedents I've set in any past games, so I'm truly sorry. Assuming you guys decide not to lynch me, I'm going to turn this game around. Of course, with finals and everything this is coming at a pretty bad time, but I've dug this hole myself and I need to fix it. Honestly, I don't even know if I've been playing to my Wincon. By 'contributing' all I have, I haven't been doing anything. At all. So I'm sorry to everyone for playing badly, and I'm particularly sorry to TWM for making a garbage first impression. I can't promise any super amazing cases, but I think it's safe for me to promise to start playing better. Thanks for putting up with my crap up until now.

I think we are still waiting. In fact. I am done waiting.

[faust]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

You said 3 names! Beware the rage of mcmc.

Seriously though, these 3 names should be strongly reconsidered. Just because we're at 2 rsp. 3 votes doesn't mean that this should be the lynch pool.

[faust]

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

Just out of curiosity, why am I not in there?

Good question!

Vote: RR

I'd prefer if you listened to the IC

That does not particularly surprise me.

[Joseph2302]

Well gkrieg is townier than EFHW, but I don't really want to lnch either of them today.

I agree.

If you aren't considering RR or Jake either, have you looked at ashersky?

Oh duh. You did a reread on him. ashersky called it fair. I forgot. Can you explain the part about not killing Calamitis?

I'd think ashersky would go for a more experienced player almost all of the time, and he would convince his partners if necessary.

I think so too.
I think if ash/faust/gkrieg are scum, then the normal move would be to kill one of the other vets.
However, we discussed this in NM9 (which faust & gkrieg were in), so maybe scum!faust/gkrieg would remember that conversation and not want to be obvious. Doubt ash would have seen this conversation when we had it.

This does kind of make ash a bit townier for me.

PPE: 5, 6 or 7

[gkrieg13]

Out of the people I would be fine with RR. I kind of want to lynch Faust but don't rally like his wagon.

vote: RR

[Joseph2302]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

So you'd rather do nothing instead?
Also I'm convinced enough right now that faust is town.

If we needed the lynch, I'd probably vote for anyone but myself and faust (maybe not Awaclus, as he is an uncontested claimed PR)

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

I'm leaning more and more towards wanting to lynch RR. Has he actually contributed meaningfully this game?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well this is exciting.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm leaning more and more towards wanting to lynch RR. Has he actually contributed meaningfully this game?

No. He lied and said he would. And then didn't. Worst thing that happens is we lose a town who does nothing.

[gkrieg13]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

So you'd rather do nothing instead?
Also I'm convinced enough right now that faust is town.

If we needed the lynch, I'd probably vote for anyone but myself and faust (maybe not Awaclus, as he is an uncontested claimed PR)

PPE: 1

I will point out that Awaclus is uncontested, but would require another roleblocker out there anyway. So one person out there should believe Awaclus a little bit more than the rest of us. I thought that is why Faust was town reading him.

[EFHW]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

[Joseph2302]

Happy to lynch: gkrieg, RR, mcmc
Could lynch: ash, TWM, EFHW
Don't want to lynch: Awclus, jake
Won't lynch: me, faust

So to me the options seem like faust, jake or gkrieg.

Just out of curiosity, why am I not in there?

Ugh because before carefully rereading, they were the only people with >1 vote.
You'll be pleased to know that you're on there now.

PPE: 2

[faust]

I'm around, I just really don't know what to say. I've been toying with the idea of making a case on faust, but I just don't know how much substance that would hold.

So you'd rather do nothing instead?
Also I'm convinced enough right now that faust is town.

If we needed the lynch, I'd probably vote for anyone but myself and faust (maybe not Awaclus, as he is an uncontested claimed PR)

PPE: 1

I will point out that Awaclus is uncontested, but would require another roleblocker out there anyway. So one person out there should believe Awaclus a little bit more than the rest of us. I thought that is why Faust was town reading him.

Well, we can test that if it comes down to it. Probably tomorrow we should have a Roleblocker claim. Then we can discuss Awaclus.

[faust]

no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

I'm curious about the causal relation between these two things.

Not that's even true. The case against RR is just a bit older.

[Roadrunner7671]

Not that's even true. The case against RR is just a bit older.

Was it a case or a reread?

[faust]

Not that's even true. The case against RR is just a bit older.

Was it a case or a reread?

I did a reread. Pretty sure TWM and possibly others made cases.

[gkrieg13]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

[EFHW]

no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

I'm curious about the causal relation between these two things.

Not that's even true. The case against RR is just a bit older.

If he was acting scummy, someone would have noticed and said something.  TWM did make an argument for an RR/Jake partnership, but he hasn't played any other games with them.  RR is embarrassed because he invited Jake to join us, so he tries to rein Jake in and then gives up.

It would be great to have some more cases.

We should be able to do better than a lurker lynch at the end of Day 2.

[EFHW]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

You are my strongest scum read. Given the apparent lack of interest, my second choice is Jake.  He is acting differently and you have been interacting with him more than usual.  People have defended him and tried to lynch him so his flip will be informative. 

[faust]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

[Joseph2302]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

EFHW, surely if you think gkrieg is scum, and jake is probably gkrieg's partner, is it not better to lynch gkrieg before jake?

[faust]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

You are my strongest scum read. Given the apparent lack of interest, my second choice is Jake.  He is acting differently and you have been interacting with him more than usual.  People have defended him and tried to lynch him so his flip will be informative.

I'm confused. Is your argument that scum!gkrieg would openly coach his partner in the game thread?

[EFHW]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I guess I could go for a EFHW lynch

[EFHW]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

EFHW, surely if you think gkrieg is scum, and jake is probably gkrieg's partner, is it not better to lynch gkrieg before jake?

Yes, but I don't think there are enough people willing to vote him.  Just me, you and mcmc.

[faust]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

Well, he is currently lurking. He was already scummy before this started. Also he made a big post about how he will try to play better when he was under pressure and then didn't follow up. So it's pretty likely that that post was just AtE and manipulation. Town!RR would feel compelled to actually do something about this. So even his absence now, is not mere "lurking", but alignment-indicative.

[faust]

I'm out for the night. Wil be around for the deadline.

[Roadrunner7671]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

Well, he is currently lurking. He was already scummy before this started. Also he made a big post about how he will try to play better when he was under pressure and then didn't follow up. So it's pretty likely that that post was just AtE and manipulation. Town!RR would feel compelled to actually do something about this. So even his absence now, is not mere "lurking", but alignment-indicative.

Doing that would be on the same level of saying you're VLA when you're actually not. And I do feel compelled to do something about my bad play, but there's really not much I feel like I can do. I might make one of those big posts like I used to, but anything I think of doing just seems like it won't be very useful.

[EFHW]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

You are my strongest scum read. Given the apparent lack of interest, my second choice is Jake.  He is acting differently and you have been interacting with him more than usual.  People have defended him and tried to lynch him so his flip will be informative.

I'm confused. Is your argument that scum!gkrieg would openly coach his partner in the game thread?

Yes, especially Jake. Why is that confusing? None of the posts were obvious coaching - people give him advice all the time and the other posts were reasonable admonishments.

My theory about gkrieg could be wrong, but it is based on actual posts by him and is coherent. People are free to agree or disagree. This movement to lynch RR has no apparent basis other than disappointment that he hasn't contributed.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

You are my strongest scum read. Given the apparent lack of interest, my second choice is Jake.  He is acting differently and you have been interacting with him more than usual.  People have defended him and tried to lynch him so his flip will be informative.

I'm confused. Is your argument that scum!gkrieg would openly coach his partner in the game thread?

Yes, especially Jake. Why is that confusing? None of the posts were obvious coaching - people give him advice all the time and the other posts were reasonable admonishments.

My theory about gkrieg could be wrong, but it is based on actual posts by him and is coherent. People are free to agree or disagree. This movement to lynch RR has no apparent basis other than disappointment that he hasn't contributed.

Again. As Faust said it isn't disappointment that he isn't contributing. That is gone and past. It is that he deliberately lied and said he would contribute to put us off from voting him and then didn't do what he said. I agree that a town RR would have posted more and not lied and manipulated us the way he did.

[EFHW]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

Well, he is currently lurking. He was already scummy before this started. Also he made a big post about how he will try to play better when he was under pressure and then didn't follow up. So it's pretty likely that that post was just AtE and manipulation. Town!RR would feel compelled to actually do something about this. So even his absence now, is not mere "lurking", but alignment-indicative.

Saying "he was already scummy before this started" is meaningless to me.  People do that hand-waving all the time, and it's scummy. Give me some examples. 

I think his AtE was genuine and I'm not surprised he feels hesitant about posting since then, since he really raised the bar of our expectations and doesn't know if he will be able to live up to it.

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW

I really don't remember her tunneling this much as town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I don't buy that he couldn't think of anything to say when he has been around and reading. Even just basic reads would have been something. That means he is over thinking about what he posts and holding back because he is fearful. Who is fearful and holds back? Mafia.

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW

I really don't remember her tunneling this much as town.

It's unusual that I would have so many arguments about one person. OMGUS me if you want.  If I'm lynched, then people will know I was sincere and can take another look at what I had to say.

[gkrieg13]

Also the me coaching Jake thing is something I would do as either alignment. Some players have great instinct, and I was trying to give him advice to be better. It was honest advice.

[Roadrunner7671]

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW

I really don't remember her tunneling this much as town.

It's unusual that I would have so many arguments about one person. OMGUS me if you want.  If I'm lynched, then people will know I was sincere and can take another look at what I had to say.

Now you are saying that my vote is OMGUS?  I think I voted for you first?

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW

I really don't remember her tunneling this much as town.

It's unusual that I would have so many arguments about one person. OMGUS me if you want.  If I'm lynched, then people will know I was sincere and can take another look at what I had to say.

Now you are saying that my vote is OMGUS?  I think I voted for you first?

I don't know who voted first.  I know your reread followed my beginning to put pressure on you.

I'm a better lynch than RR.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

But apologies without action aren't actually apologies. So you never actually apologized.

[EFHW]

I have reread RR. A few scummy posts I noticed:

 at 52 he comments on the short length of N0.
 at 455 He gives intent to hammer Robz but then says "remember I have no spine".
 at 543 He refuses to name his top three lynch choices.
 at 924 he claims not to notice deadlines
 
He had 109 posts.  He does a lot of policing of Jake.  Maybe that is even helpful to town, I don't know if Jake listens to him or not. He defends Joseph. He doesn't seem fearful at all.  He stands up to mcmc, faust, Awaclus and me when suspected. He gives Jake 4 different reasons why his plan was bad for town. There's the long chat with Jake that I assume provoked the apology.  A bit later the apology, and then nothing until Sat evening.

Things that are questionable:
 Why he only voted once in 2 game days.
 Why he didn't post again until almost 2 days after his apology.

[mcmcsalot]

Roadrunners recent posts have been very scummy. I definitely don't like the I don't know what to do post. He genuinely seems like he is invested but doesn't know what to do. Day one I think that points towny but this late in day two with this amount of cases made points toward scum. I know people keep acting like no one is posting but we actually just have a burst of posts then no posts for awhile. My case on Faust is detailed, efhw's on gkrieg is, fausts rereads on everyone have a lot of substance, jake and twm have commented on almost everything. There's tons here to go off of and rr's posts about not knowing what to do look to me like scum literally not knowing what people to side with.

This also makes me think our cases have found scum and rr doesn't want to join them but doesn't want to defend his partners and out them even more.

[EFHW]

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

But apologies without action aren't actually apologies. So you never actually apologized.

Can you point us to the lies and manipulation after the fact?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

But apologies without action aren't actually apologies. So you never actually apologized.

Can you point us to the lies and manipulation after the fact?

No. Because those posts don't exist. He didn't do what he said he would. I think he meant to when he initially said he was going to, so wasn't lying when he said it.

Like if I say I am going to pick you up,at the airport and fully intend to I am not lying. But if I get lazy and never show up I lied after the fact due to my omission.

[EFHW]

This also makes me think our cases have found scum and rr doesn't want to join them but doesn't want to defend his partners and out them even more.

That narrative also works.  But he could have voted for me, or for you (assuming you are town).  There was some interest expressed there. And we had three wagons.  If he is scum, then one of them would be on town and he could join that one.

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunners recent posts have been very scummy. I definitely don't like the I don't know what to do post. He genuinely seems like he is invested but doesn't know what to do. Day one I think that points towny but this late in day two with this amount of cases made points toward scum. I know people keep acting like no one is posting but we actually just have a burst of posts then no posts for awhile. My case on Faust is detailed, efhw's on gkrieg is, fausts rereads on everyone have a lot of substance, jake and twm have commented on almost everything. There's tons here to go off of and rr's posts about not knowing what to do look to me like scum literally not knowing what people to side with.

This also makes me think our cases have found scum and rr doesn't want to join them but doesn't want to defend his partners and out them even more.

RR, whether he was town or scum, has never really been conflicted like this. I don't know what the problem is, if I knew it obviously wouldn't be a problem. I am invested in this game though. I just can't figure anything out.

[mcmcsalot]

This also makes me think our cases have found scum and rr doesn't want to join them but doesn't want to defend his partners and out them even more.

That narrative also works.  But he could have voted for me, or for you (assuming you are town).  There was some interest expressed there. And we had three wagons.  If he is scum, then one of them would be on town and he could join that one.

Yea I guess that's true, urgh that actually makes rr look townier. Like actually why doesn't scum!rr at least sheep a case on a towny. Maybe he was gone during the times those cases were going on and he would have to actually add to one of those wagons and he doesn't know how to do that?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm back and wow that was some serious arguing. Ok first of all I would like to state that from what iv'e been reading this is my lynch list.

Awa>RR>McEFHW>Big G>Faust>TWM>mcmc>Asher>Joseph

Awa is because of previously stated cases and I don't believe his claim where

RR because of previously made cases and in all the games iv'e played with him where he is town he never lurks and is alway much more helpful and if he is lurking he has a reason whereas here he doesn't

EFHW is Targeting way to much, more than iv'e seen her do before and as such

Big G for other cases and I didn't like the fake town slip

Faust for other cases 

TWM has completely changed his play style and because I'm 99% sure there's a vet scum I'm pretty confident he got coached a ton over night

mcmc has done some contributing and wouldn't lynch today

asher just hasn't done enough today

Joseph is a IC

@Whoever used the coaching argument against me i took a break from mafia in december and sorta changed my play style (hopefully for the better) which might explain your coaching thing

[Roadrunner7671]

RR because in all the games iv'e played with him where he is town he never lurks and is alway much more helpful and if he is lurking he has a reason whereas here he doesn't

But check games where I was scum, I didn't play 'like this' either. Since it's new, it can't really be alignment indicative.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust for other cases 

Since you are back. Please answer my previous questions to you in regard to your vote on faust.

Thank you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM has completely changed his play style and because I'm 99% sure there's a vet scum I'm pretty confident he got coached a ton over night

Also see my points about this previously that you completely ignored.

TL;DR: According to you I have changed. No one else appears to think that. Further the examples you gave would be advice that would be more likely to get me lynched today. So your point doesn't make any sense.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

For reference:

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This is very unexpected given the post below from 1 day ago below and not something that a "quick reread" would be able to cause:

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

Plus this post from a few days before the one above.

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

These were all posted before the battery of cases against Faust that have made him seem scummy in my eyes

Which cases? Did you agree with all the points? What did you agree with them about? What did you think of faust's defenses?

and

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

[EFHW]

I might be on in the 15 minutes before deadline.  I'll check in in the a.m. as well.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

For reference:

Vote: Faust Just catching up and still won't be super active till Sunday night but I did a quick reread on Faust and have now been convinced of his scumminess.

This is very unexpected given the post below from 1 day ago below and not something that a "quick reread" would be able to cause:

1. Awaclus
2. TWM
3. Ashersky
4. Mcmc: Where is this dude. I don't trust the massive controversialness and how he lurks a ton
5. RR
6. McEFHW
7. Big G
8. Joseph
9. faust

Plus this post from a few days before the one above.

The only person I wouldn't lynch would be Faust.

This looks potentially opportunistic to me with mcmc's and ash's votes already on faust. At the very least I think it requires a better explanation for why the change happened. Or was the town read on faust from before (he had him above Joseph) fabricated? Obviously though, that would have been better supplied at the time of the vote and not only after being questioned about it.

These were all posted before the battery of cases against Faust that have made him seem scummy in my eyes

Which cases? Did you agree with all the points? What did you agree with them about? What did you think of faust's defenses?

and

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

TWM has completely changed his play style and because I'm 99% sure there's a vet scum I'm pretty confident he got coached a ton over night

Also see my points about this previously that you completely ignored.

TL;DR: According to you I have changed. No one else appears to think that. Further the examples you gave would be advice that would be more likely to get me lynched today. So your point doesn't make any sense.

no one else has discussed it and if anyone wants to say it's not then tell me but yesterday you were asking questions about the game and inquiring on how to play but today you have been throwing accusations around and commenting on everything almost like all your questions were answered N-1 by a scum partner

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

It's not so much cases as just posts all over. I don't like how Faust switches his vote after every read. I didn't like fausts defenses as well.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

Oh. But you certainly implied it.

Look at what you said:

"gone from learning and making solid points"
"instead of helping"

So if you aren't saying that my points haven't been solid at that by implication I am scummy, I don't know what the hell you are saying.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM has completely changed his play style and because I'm 99% sure there's a vet scum I'm pretty confident he got coached a ton over night

Also see my points about this previously that you completely ignored.

TL;DR: According to you I have changed. No one else appears to think that. Further the examples you gave would be advice that would be more likely to get me lynched today. So your point doesn't make any sense.

no one else has discussed it and if anyone wants to say it's not then tell me but yesterday you were asking questions about the game and inquiring on how to play but today you have been throwing accusations around and commenting on everything almost like all your questions were answered N-1 by a scum partner

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good one mate.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

Oh. But you certainly implied it.

Look at what you said:

"gone from learning and making solid points"
"instead of helping"

So if you aren't saying that my points haven't been solid at that by implication I am scummy, I don't know what the hell you are saying.

Didn't we already establish what happens when you assume?

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Jake

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

Oh. But you certainly implied it.

Look at what you said:

"gone from learning and making solid points"
"instead of helping"

So if you aren't saying that my points haven't been solid at that by implication I am scummy, I don't know what the hell you are saying.

Didn't we already establish what happens when you assume?

Insult me again.

vote: Jake

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

Oh. But you certainly implied it.

Look at what you said:

"gone from learning and making solid points"
"instead of helping"

So if you aren't saying that my points haven't been solid at that by implication I am scummy, I don't know what the hell you are saying.

Didn't we already establish what happens when you assume?

Insult me again.

vote: Jake

Wait how is that a insult?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Wait how is that a insult?

I didn't say it was an insult. I told you to insult me one more time. You know what happens?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

Didn't say they weren't

Oh. But you certainly implied it.

Look at what you said:

"gone from learning and making solid points"
"instead of helping"

So if you aren't saying that my points haven't been solid at that by implication I am scummy, I don't know what the hell you are saying.

Didn't we already establish what happens when you assume?

Insult me again.

vote: Jake

Wait how is that a insult?

1. its a joke
2. even if it wasn't it's not a insult
3. even if you viewed as a insult i would be insulting myself too
4. RR why the vote?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Wait how is that a insult?

I didn't say it was an insult. I told you to insult me one more time. You know what happens?

But i didn't insult you in the first place so how can it happen again?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And to be clear, I am not voting you for the insult (that wasn't clear in my previous post). I am voting you for again not actually answering my question, but instead deflecting.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

And to be clear, I am not voting you for the insult (that wasn't clear in my previous post). I am voting you for again not actually answering my question, but instead deflecting.

How did I not answer you're question?

[Roadrunner7671]

4. RR why the vote?

I strongly suspect that with just a minute or two of thought, you'll be able to answer that yourself.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

4. RR why the vote?

I strongly suspect that with just a minute or two of thought, you'll be able to answer that yourself.

well no one knows how your thinking so I don't think i can.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

You know what nevermind I would rather not fight over something this meaningless and would rather get back to the game

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

You know what nevermind I would rather not fight over something this meaningless and would rather get back to the game

I apologize if i insulted u in anyway.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

You know what nevermind I would rather not fight over something this meaningless and would rather get back to the game

Agreed. And I don't want you to think that I hold anything super against you. Just clarifying why I said what I said.

Why are you still voting faust even though he is the middle of your would lynch list?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

You know what nevermind I would rather not fight over something this meaningless and would rather get back to the game

Agreed. And I don't want you to think that I hold anything super against you. Just clarifying why I said what I said.

Why are you still voting faust even though he is the middle of your would lynch list?

umm yet to pick another person to vote for but i guess i'll Unvote

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I personally don't like being called a butt. That is an insult. I don't care if you also called yourself that. It isn't a huge insult. But it is still an insult.

Didn't call you a butt.

You know what nevermind I would rather not fight over something this meaningless and would rather get back to the game

Agreed. And I don't want you to think that I hold anything super against you. Just clarifying why I said what I said.

Why are you still voting faust even though he is the middle of your would lynch list?

umm yet to pick another person to vote for but i guess i'll Unvote

For now i gonna Vote: RR because i doubt that a awaclus lynch will happen.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am about to be off for the night. I have some family plans in the morning that are still up in the air, but it means I am not exactly sure what my availability will be come deadline. I will be on in the morning, but can't be sure if I will be there for deadline itself.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I am about to be off for the night. I have some family plans in the morning that are still up in the air, but it means I am not exactly sure what my availability will be come deadline. I will be on in the morning, but can't be sure if I will be there for deadline itself.

Going to a funeral tomorrow but will be on for deadline mostly.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I was about to move to a vote RR, as I think his lynch is more likely to go through than Jake's and we are getting close, but I just saw Jake move his vote there.

But I don't think I should be swayed by that too much. It is conceivable that these two just know one of them is going down if they are partners. And if they aren't I am at the point where both are equally likely to be mafia. So while I don't like voting side by side with a strong mafia read, there isn't a good reason to not do so.

vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

Jake, can you please be more specific as to why you're voting for me?

[Joseph2302]

I'll try to be around for deadline, but no guarantee

[EFHW]

vote count please

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.8

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
Roadrunner7671 (3): The_Wine_Merchant, faust, JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (0):


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 9ish hours.

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 2.8

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, Joseph2302
Roadrunner7671 (3): The_Wine_Merchant, faust, JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (0):


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 9ish hours.

Need 6 to lynch.
Would rather not have a scramble in last hour like usually happens

[Joseph2302]

I'm on and off avaliable. But nothing is happening yet it seems.

[Joseph2302]

We have 10, so possibly no lynch isn't so bad. Although lynch is still more likely better.

[faust]

We have 10, so possibly no lynch isn't so bad. Although lynch is still more likely better.

It's definitely better... especially since we probably have a Roleblocker.

[Joseph2302]

We have 10, so possibly no lynch isn't so bad. Although lynch is still more likely better.

It's definitely better... especially since we probably have a Roleblocker.

The RB does make lynch better, yes. So let's lynch someone.

[Joseph2302]

I'd be more than happy to switch to RR to get a lynch.
I'd probably vote Jake if it got us a lynch.

[Joseph2302]

Let's get this game moving.

Vote: RR

This is L-2

[EFHW]

I'm not going to vote RR.

[EFHW]

vote: Jake

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not going to vote RR.

Why not?

[EFHW]

I'm not going to vote RR.

Why not?

Read the thread.

[mcmcsalot]

Let's get this game moving.

Vote: RR

This is L-2

Joseph have you seen my case on Faust and if so what do you think of it.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

vote: Jake

Why?

[Joseph2302]

Let's get this game moving.

Vote: RR

This is L-2

Joseph have you seen my case on Faust and if so what do you think of it.

Do you mean this :

Okay so first off my thoughts on fausts case on roadrunner it has some validity but I think overall is pretty weak and doesn't make me find Faust any townier.

I agree rr finding Joseph towny pre claim is scummy, but I mentioned this very thing about Faust in my case on him and he claimed it wasn't scummy. I think the weird votig and inviting of jake is due to really wanting to continue pushing a jake lynch and being frustrated that other players are preventing it because they won't lynch jake day one and not because of a town read. This is backed up I think by roadrunners refusal to do jakes top 3 plan which I don't think is buddying me it's just smart. Then the weirdness around the robz wagon which I do think is scummy and lots of general useless back and forth with jake.

Overall I really don't think it's a strong case and makes Faust come out looking scummier in my opinion.

Yes the RR case has been weak, but I think it's getting stronger. He keeps on coming online and just saying "I don't know who to vote for". This is ridiculously unhelpful, and he must know it. Surely town!RR would realise that these posts with no information are useless. Town!RR usually contributes to the game.

[Awaclus]

vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

[mcmcsalot]

No I meant my case on Faust being scum, the one that took like 3 pages of faust debating and defending himself.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs actual cases on other players

[EFHW]

No I meant my case on Faust being scum, the one that took like 3 pages of faust debating and defending himself.

Can you point to it? I'm on phone.

[Awaclus]

vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs actual cases on other players

Like the one you made against me? That's not an actual case, and just because people have made cases against other people doesn't mean you're town. You need a better defense than that.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs actual cases on other players

Like the one you made against me? That's not an actual case, and just because people have made cases against other people doesn't mean you're town. You need a better defense than that.

How about the fact that you can't point to a case against me?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

vote: Jake

Why?

Why not?

Because theirs actual cases on other players

Like the one you made against me? That's not an actual case, and just because people have made cases against other people doesn't mean you're town. You need a better defense than that.

Also there's so many cases made by so many players that aren't me

[Awaclus]

How about the fact that you can't point to a case against me?

I don't need to point to a case against you. Look, I'm already voting for you and nothing's stopping me even though I haven't made a case against you. You need to defend yourself and convince me if you want me to move my vote, because there's no other way you can influence my vote.

[Awaclus]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

[mcmcsalot]

This was the original case

At TWM, maybe its because I think the robz lynch was a crappy lynch and a result of our D1 being terrible and having very few legitimate cases being made. I thought Robz was town since the entire soft!claim issue.

Oh also here is my case repeated for people who didn't pay attention to it yesterday since it was too late.

Okay lets look at faust

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Okay so look, don't tell others who we should look at! (for clarity faust does go on to make a gkrieg case much much later.)

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Oh you mean since you did it too and have had a town read on EFHW all game.


It is next that faust makes his gkrieg case and at the end says I am not quite sure if I am just having confirmation bias so what does everyone else think. Which hey at least he finally made a case but it still seemed like you won't stick by it if other people don't like it, which is scummy in my opinion.

Then this post started a back an forth that lasted awhile and I think Fausts defenses were pretty bad.

Ah here it is!

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

And then yes shortly thereafter

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

And then eventually

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

Me too

[Awaclus]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

I'm not being ignorant. You're being scum until you can prove that you aren't. I don't really care who it was that you asked; regardless of who it was, it should be you answering the opposite question.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Morning!

I can go back to Jake, but sticking with RR for now. I don't think I would go to Faust.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

[EFHW]

I think a lot of faust's comments and votes have been scummy, but that's partly because he consistently disagrees with me. If we get some flips we'll be in a better position to evaluate how he is playing.

[mcmcsalot]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

I'm not being ignorant. You're being scum until you can prove that you aren't. I don't really care who it was that you asked; regardless of who it was, it should be you answering the opposite question.

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

[Joseph2302]

It's a good case, but I still think faust is town.
Faust has played enough with me to know I do crazy things, mostly as town. He found me scummy but then no-one is going to claim UB.

I think mcmc may be town, but I'm still more sure of faust being town.

PPE: 3

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

I think we can save assessing him for another day (day3 or day4?) when claiming role blocker or no role blocker makes more sense. Doing so now, late Day2 doesn't make any sense and I wouldn't want to lynch him without first checking that information.

[Joseph2302]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

[Awaclus]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: jake

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.9

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): , faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302

Not voting (0):


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 2ish hours.

[Awaclus]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

Have you tried removing the votes that people have cast on you? How has that been working out for you?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

Have you tried removing the votes that people have cast on you? How has that been working out for you?

How can I when no one says why there voting for me besides "your scummy"

[mcmcsalot]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

Try L2. See the vote count above.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

Try L2. See the vote count above.

right 6 to lynch not 5 got it

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

It sounds like the main reason to lynch him is his claim. That just isn't a good reason to lynch someone I think. I don't know maybe it is for awaclus, cause he doesn't give a lot that can be read. But it seems as if the reason people want to lynch him is to find out if his role claim is real, not because he is actually being scummy or not being townie.

There are better options right now and they are jake and RR

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

It sounds like the main reason to lynch him is his claim. That just isn't a good reason to lynch someone I think. I don't know maybe it is for awaclus, cause he doesn't give a lot that can be read. But it seems as if the reason people want to lynch him is to find out if his role claim is real, not because he is actually being scummy or not being townie.

There are better options right now and they are jake and RR

Except no one can say why me?

[faust]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

[faust]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

What was scummy about Jake's most recent posts?

[faust]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

Not true. We can find it ot b doing a Roleblocker claim?

Which is something we should totally do tomorrow. But I don't want to lynch Awaclus without doing this.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

This is the one that jumped out to me. It feels panicked and forceful. His back and forth with awaclus after that was why I ended up changing my vote.

[Joseph2302]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Except no one can say why me?

Man. Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.

[faust]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

This is the one that jumped out to me. It feels panicked and forceful. His back and forth with awaclus after that was why I ended up changing my vote.

And why is that something scum would be more than town in Jake's position?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Do you two really not see what I am seeing here?

Who else is going to join the RR wagon though? Is anyone on that is going to go for that that isn't already on it?

Or do you want to try something else?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

This is the one that jumped out to me. It feels panicked and forceful. His back and forth with awaclus after that was why I ended up changing my vote.

And why is that something scum would be more than town in Jake's position?

I think Jake as town would acquise to what awaclus is asking him and try and show his towniness. But instead he just keeps asking why he is scummy even though that has been answered multiple times. He is putting the onus on others instead of doing something himself. That feels like a scum tactic to me.

[Awaclus]

How can I when no one says why there voting for me besides "your scummy"

Precisely, there is no mechanic in the game that just allows you to remove unwanted votes from yourself. That's why you have to explain why you're town. That means actively pointing out evidence that suggests you are town, not just complaining that nobody has told you why you're scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

mcmc, will you go to RR?

Although even with your vote, without gkrieg/ash I don't know if we can get a lynch anywhere. I feel like I am the only one ok with both the RR/jake wagons even though they basically equally good.

[EFHW]

@TWM, Jake doesn't respond to feedback. But he's an informative lynch and a major disruption to the game and maybe scum partners with gkrieg, so that's why I am voting him. Scum purposely try to keep him around when he is town.

[EFHW]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake.

[faust]

mcmc, will you go to RR?

Although even with your vote, without gkrieg/ash I don't know if we can get a lynch anywhere. I feel like I am the only one ok with both the RR/jake wagons even though they basically equally good.

This is a false notion that benefits scum twofold:

- it helps them get Jake lynched
- if Jake flips town, they can use it as an argument for why RR should not be lynched.

However I fail to see the similarity. Jake has been active, has given reads (whether good or no), has contributed, shown involvement in the game and frustration when it was not going his way.

RR has done nothing and we still don't really know his reads, he has actively tried to get Jake to be less useful too, he whined about being unhelpful and did nothing to change it and has failed to provide any meaningful content.

[faust]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake.

Why not? Please don't give me the "because he's scum" crap.

[faust]

Will be out for ~1 hour, back before deadline.

DO NOT lynch Jake!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

[Joseph2302]

Will be out for ~1 hour, back before deadline.

DO NOT lynch Jake!

I don't plan to.

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

[Joseph2302]

Request: Vote Count

[Awaclus]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake.

Why not? Please don't give me the "because he's scum" crap.

But he is scum.

[Awaclus]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Request: Vote Count

Dont' know the others. But RR is at L-2. Jake at L-3.

[faust]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

[Joseph2302]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

Show me somewhere RR did something actually useful.....

PPE: 1

[Awaclus]

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

Show me somewhere RR did something actually useful.....

PPE: 1

Why don't you ask RR to do that himself? I'm not going to defend anyone.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.10

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (4): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in an hour and a half

[Awaclus]

Vote Count 2.10

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in an hour and a half

I think that's 3 votes for Jake and 4 for RR.

[schadd]

no u

[mcmcsalot]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

It sounds like the main reason to lynch him is his claim. That just isn't a good reason to lynch someone I think. I don't know maybe it is for awaclus, cause he doesn't give a lot that can be read. But it seems as if the reason people want to lynch him is to find out if his role claim is real, not because he is actually being scummy or not being townie.

There are better options right now and they are jake and RR

This is not the main reason at all! This is why this game is crap, no one is remembering cases that were made more than two pages ago. (Also a reason I want to lynch Faust his insane post count and calling out of people every second he can saying we need to post more when really we need to remember what has been said in the past)

The case on awa is the whole stuff about soft claiming ub and how he reacted to robz after which got him to l-1 yesterday as well as his lurky behavior as well as him saying as a claim pr he planned on letting others make cases and just commenting today because that helps town more(it doesn't and was a scummy defense for his lurking)

Also

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Is another super scummy response to why he's not making cases.

Also Faust saying we should definitely roleblocker claim tomorrow I don't love because if the roleblocker disagrees how are we to know and if a roleblocker does claim, it could be scum saving a partner and we wouldn't know till potentially too late(though I think that's unlikely) also if a roleblocker claim it doesn't mean awa is guaranteed to be telling the truth, it really just outs another pr.

Jeez can we lync Faust or awa...will lynch rr over Jake for sure though

[Roadrunner7671]

Jake, can you please be more specific as to why you're voting for me?

I guess not

[Roadrunner7671]

Here's something I don't understand: If I was scum, why wouldn't I contribute? What's stopping me from slapping together some reads, voting a few times and calling it a day? There's no scum narrative for being 'blatantly unhelpful,' which is what you guys think I'm being.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

@TWM, Jake doesn't respond to feedback. But he's an informative lynch and a major disruption to the game and maybe scum partners with gkrieg, so that's why I am voting him. Scum purposely try to keep him around when he is town.

EFHW is looking ok. Can we make that happen?

vote: EFHW

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Nah.

I like RR more still. There is a perfectly good narrative RR, we outlined it a few pages ago.

vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

Nah.

I like RR more still. There is a perfectly good narrative RR, we outlined it a few pages ago.

vote: RR

Alright, I'll look  for it

[The_Wine_Merchant]

This:

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

[Awaclus]

The case on awa is the whole stuff about soft claiming ub and how he reacted to robz after which got him to l-1 yesterday as well as his lurky behavior as well as him saying as a claim pr he planned on letting others make cases and just commenting today because that helps town more(it doesn't and was a scummy defense for his lurking)

I didn't softclaim UB, I was in another game that required most of my attention, it is definitely true that an IC (which I'm probably going to be after mass claim) should not give away too many of his reads and I never said that I'm letting others make cases — I think it is totally unnecessary for anyone to make cases today.

Is another super scummy response to why he's not making cases.

No it isn't.

Jeez can we lync Faust or awa...will lynch rr over Jake for sure though

No.

[Roadrunner7671]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake.

Why not? Please don't give me the "because he's scum" crap.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake because he clutters the thread and can be pretty easily swayed by a case.

[Roadrunner7671]

This:

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

THat's true though! But as scum, it wouldn't be hard, because nothing would be genuine. I could make up whatever I wanted and as long as I stayed consitant I'd be good. There have been rereads/cases against most everyone in the game, as scum I could've just piggybacked on one of those. But as town, it's in your best interest to be honest and genuine. And this has made reads and such difficult for me, because I obviously don't want to lie about my reads.

[Joseph2302]

Um, let's not lynch Jake. That wagon is Scumminess Inc.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake.

Why not? Please don't give me the "because he's scum" crap.

Scum wouldn't want to lynch Jake because he clutters the thread and can be pretty easily swayed by a case.

Jake and RR have both cluttered this thread D2.
But Jake has actually made some sensible, well considered (albeit I don't agree with them) reads.

On the other hand, you've done nothing. Your only vote this game has been Jake.

[EFHW]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

He pointed out 4 different ways that Jake's 3 person plan was a problem. His interventions with Jake have been to illogical and contradictory things Jake has said.  RoadRunner is being RailRoaded.

[EFHW]

@TWM, Jake doesn't respond to feedback. But he's an informative lynch and a major disruption to the game and maybe scum partners with gkrieg, so that's why I am voting him. Scum purposely try to keep him around when he is town.

EFHW is looking ok. Can we make that happen?

vote: EFHW

I'll even self-vote for the first time ever, hoping some people will take another look at what I've said once they know I wasn't lying or trying to manipulate.

[EFHW]

I'm a really informative lynch.  vote: EFHW

[Awaclus]

No you're not. Let's lynch Jake.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awa can we make this happen because I thought he was scummy before but this deadline awa has been ridiculous. Also we have Joseph and cases of the 1% chance awa is his claim.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Awa can we make this happen because I thought he was scummy before but this deadline awa has been ridiculous. Also we have Joseph and cases of the 1% chance awa is his claim.

and I am back to vote: Jake

[faust]

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

Show me somewhere RR did something actually useful.....

PPE: 1

Why don't you ask RR to do that himself? I'm not going to defend anyone.

Because he's not the one claiming that he was helpful.

[EFHW]

fine, vote: Jake

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Can we get some more people on or else we're gonna have a no lynch.

[faust]

I'm a really informative lynch.  vote: EFHW

If RR is not happening, I will definitely lynch EFHW over Jake. But RR seems to be happening.

[faust]

Can we get some more people on or else we're gonna have a no lynch.

mcmc will vote for RR. Then we only need a hammer. Awaclus will hammer if necessary, I'm sure.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well because I am apparently going to die agian for no reason I implore the body to lynch awa and RR as well as take a look at asher

[faust]

Here's something I don't understand: If I was scum, why wouldn't I contribute? What's stopping me from slapping together some reads, voting a few times and calling it a day? There's no scum narrative for being 'blatantly unhelpful,' which is what you guys think I'm being.

There was no need. You made your AtE, people unvoted you, you thought "fine, I'll stay under the radar then".

[faust]

Well because I am apparently going to die agian for no reason I implore the body to lynch awa and RR as well as take a look at asher

No need to give up, RR still has one vote more than you and most likely will be the lynch.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Here's something I don't understand: If I was scum, why wouldn't I contribute? What's stopping me from slapping together some reads, voting a few times and calling it a day? There's no scum narrative for being 'blatantly unhelpful,' which is what you guys think I'm being.

There was no need. You made your AtE, people unvoted you, you thought "fine, I'll stay under the radar then".

Plus this is way different than how normal town RR plays and he has provided no reason as to why

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well because I am apparently going to die agian for no reason I implore the body to lynch awa and RR as well as take a look at asher

No need to give up, RR still has one vote more than you and most likely will be the lynch.

FineVote: RR

[Joseph2302]

Request: Vote Count

[Joseph2302]

And 36 minutes to lynch RR

[EFHW]

I believe Jake has 4 votes, RR has 3.

[faust]

I believe Jake has 4 votes, RR has 3.

Well yes, with TWM's switch.

still mcmc is shadow-voting RR, so it's 4-4 really.

[EFHW]

I believe Jake has 4 votes, RR has 3.

Well yes, with TWM's switch.

still mcmc is shadow-voting RR, so it's 4-4 really.

With 2 no-shows off both wagons getting a lynch today is going to be difficult.

[faust]

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

He pointed out 4 different ways that Jake's 3 person plan was a problem. His interventions with Jake have been to illogical and contradictory things Jake has said.  RoadRunner is being RailRoaded.

I said helpful.

[schadd]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

[EFHW]

If everyone on Jake moves to faust we can get a lynch

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

If everyone on Jake moves to faust we can get a lynch

Yeah but for some reason awa only cares about lynching me so he won't plus no

[Roadrunner7671]

Here's something I don't understand: If I was scum, why wouldn't I contribute? What's stopping me from slapping together some reads, voting a few times and calling it a day? There's no scum narrative for being 'blatantly unhelpful,' which is what you guys think I'm being.

There was no need. You made your AtE, people unvoted you, you thought "fine, I'll stay under the radar then".

Plus this is way different than how normal town RR plays and he has provided no reason as to why

This is way different than how scum!RR plays too, but it's refreshing to see you ignore that.

[EFHW]

I don't think we have the numbers for Jake, so vote: faust

[Joseph2302]

If everyone on Jake moves to faust we can get a lynch

No thanks

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I don't think we have the numbers for Jake, so vote: faust

We only have the numbers for RR

[Roadrunner7671]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

[Joseph2302]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

[Joseph2302]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

[Roadrunner7671]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

Glad to see you agree with me 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

Glad to see you agree with me 

Aren't you voting for Jake now?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh. You meant faust. Right?

[Joseph2302]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

Glad to see you agree with me 

Aren't you voting for Jake now?

RR is, I'm not

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

[EFHW]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

Are you going to switch to Jake? I had you counted as not going to vote for Jake.  Who do you think the two extra voters will be to lynch Jake?  Who will be the 3 extra to lynch RR? Do we know anyone else is going to show up?

[Roadrunner7671]

I will vote for Jake if it's the very, very end of the day. But I won't scramble to get him.

Glad to see you agree with me 

Aren't you voting for Jake now?

Thanks

[Roadrunner7671]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

Please stop saying that

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

[Joseph2302]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Neither RR or Jake are filling me with confidence

PPE: 2

[Joseph2302]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

In that case, only Jake can happen, I believe

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

Read the thread!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

Go find them. Be a big boy. Multiple people have presented multiple points on you that are perfectly legitimate. That you ignore them isn't our problem. It is yours.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

Read the thread!

Quote it because I can't find it

[Joseph2302]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

In that case, only Jake can happen, I believe

As there's 6 active, and Awaclus is on Jake.
Unless anyone else comes online, only Jake can get 6 votes (without self-votes)

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

Go find them. Be a big boy. Multiple people have presented multiple points on you that are perfectly legitimate. That you ignore them isn't our problem. It is yours.

But WHAT ARE THEY??

[mcmcsalot]

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

[Awaclus]

Vote: Awa can we make this happen because I thought he was scummy before but this deadline awa has been ridiculous. Also we have Joseph and cases of the 1% chance awa is his claim.

You are the one who has been ridiculous. I've asked you to prove that you're town multiple times, but you haven't been able to do that.

[Awaclus]

Literally, only Jake is looking likely.
RR is a possibility.
Anyone else is no chance.

PPE:2

There's also literally no case on me.

So many times false. I am keeping my vote here.

Every time I say there is no case on me someone ethier says "your scummy" or "your kidding right" but WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!

Go find them. Be a big boy. Multiple people have presented multiple points on you that are perfectly legitimate. That you ignore them isn't our problem. It is yours.

But WHAT ARE THEY??

There doesn't even need to be a case against you! You just need to defend yourself, that's all. But you can't, because you're not town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

Then vote?

[EFHW]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

In that case, only Jake can happen, I believe

As there's 6 active, and Awaclus is on Jake.
Unless anyone else comes online, only Jake can get 6 votes (without self-votes)

vote: Jake. Please someone take us out of our misery.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Awa can we make this happen because I thought he was scummy before but this deadline awa has been ridiculous. Also we have Joseph and cases of the 1% chance awa is his claim.

You are the one who has been ridiculous. I've asked you to prove that you're town multiple times, but you haven't been able to do that.

You have given me nothing to defend myself against

[faust]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

Switch to RR!

[mcmcsalot]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

In that case, only Jake can happen, I believe

As there's 6 active, and Awaclus is on Jake.
Unless anyone else comes online, only Jake can get 6 votes (without self-votes)

vote: Jake. Please someone take us out of our misery.

vote: jake

[Joseph2302]

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

Jake it is then I guess.
Vote: Jake, and sorry if I'm wrong.

PPE: 5

[faust]

Well crap. Vote: EFHW

[Joseph2302]

I think I hammered

[Joseph2302]

I think I hammered

I'm not sure though.

[faust]

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

Jake it is then I guess.
Vote: Jake, and sorry if I'm wrong.

PPE: 5

WHY DON'T YOU WAIT UNTIL THE DAY IS OVER OR AT LEAST FOR A CLAIM?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I am leaving in a couple of minutes. Sorry to have to leave, but family commitment.

Switch to RR!

No. Jake is the lynch for today. At least RR is able to see that people have presented cases on him and provide something of a defense.

Jake's "woe is me!" posts are telling.

[faust]

Sorry for caps, but this is just beyond awful.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I am out. Off to go bowling.

[EFHW]

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

Jake it is then I guess.
Vote: Jake, and sorry if I'm wrong.

PPE: 5

WHY DON'T YOU WAIT UNTIL THE DAY IS OVER OR AT LEAST FOR A CLAIM?

We have 16 minutes left. He's been on all this time, didn't say anything about wanting to claim. And there's no call for yelling.

PPE

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

This was the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever seen. You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

[Awaclus]

You have given me nothing to defend myself against

And this is exactly what proves that you're scum. If you were town, you wouldn't have any problems building a case for you being town from a scratch. Since you're scum, you can only try to argue against other people's points against you.

[faust]

Please do me a favor and lynch RR, EFHW, ash once I'm dead.

[Joseph2302]

Sorry for caps, but this is just beyond awful.

It was the only lynch physically possible. I'd already explained that maths.

This was the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever seen. You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

It was the only lynch enough people would do

[EFHW]

This was the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever seen. You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

Bummer to be on the other side of that, I guess.

[Joseph2302]

This was the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever seen. You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

Are you scum?

[Awaclus]

You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

That's how it works bro, unless you can prove that you aren't scum.

[schadd]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22


With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Sorry for caps, but this is just beyond awful.

It was the only lynch physically possible. I'd already explained that maths.

This was the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever seen. You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

It was the only lynch enough people would do

We had enough people to lynch RR easy. Also am a Vt secretary of literary analysis

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You just lynch someone with no case on them besides people saying your scum

That's how it works bro, unless you can prove that you aren't scum.

That's not YOU ARE SCUM

[faust]

I guess that vote count is my death sentence.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I guess that vote count is my death sentence.

Sorry buddy

[Roadrunner7671]

I guess that vote count is my death sentence.

Huh?

[faust]

Roleblocker claims tomorrow!

[EFHW]

I guess that vote count is my death sentence.

Or your reads are wrong and scum let you live.

[faust]

I guess that vote count is my death sentence.

Or your reads are wrong and scum let you live.

Because you all had such amazingly accurate reads 

[schadd]

   ah, day two. my personal favorite day. hi. it's me. greaseth wobbles-wednesday. today has been a turbulent day. uh, wait, excuse me, i was staring at this picture of a plant. no, actually, today has been a bit of a bland day, i would s- oh, hey, they're killing someone.
    oh. oh my. well, well, would you look at- yes, goratio, please go to the live feed right now!

    "sir. friend. 'tis simply too true to be untrue. you are the baddies."
    "oh? really? i don't see any cases!" [he exaggerates looking around, pulling up the corners of rugs and looking under tables] "is there a case there? here?" [he exaggerates not finding any cases] "i don't see any cases here, you guys"
    [several people stare at him, sigh, and then speak in unison] "ur bad"

    yeah, i figured that guy was the baddies. in fact, i knew it from the beginning... there was something in the way that he talked, the way that he emoted, the way that he interacted with people... this guy is such a sneddite that i think that he has probably been a sneddite his whole life.

    JaketheBaseballGod22 has been lynched! He was the head of the department of literary analysis, a Vanilla Townie!
   
    Night 2 starts now and ends January 18th at 12 pm, forum time. thread l-l-l-locked

[schadd]

d3 will start at 1pm forum time today, an hour after scheduled

[schadd]

   oh, gosh, that's a cute iguana. hey lil guy. what's that? you're gonna sheep silverspawn? sorry bub, he's not in this game. oh? you're gonna sheep faust? well, kid, i got bad news for you... see that gravestone over there? yeah, that one, that says "TOLD YOU SO"...


faust has been killed in the night! He was the head of the department of spambots, a Vanilla Townie!


day 3 begins!


Vote Count 3.


Not voting (eight): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, Awaclus, EFHW, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13


With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 starts now and ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time.

thread u-u-u-unlocked

[Joseph2302]

Least surprising kill ever.

[Joseph2302]

Although why didn't they go for him N1?

[mcmcsalot]

Although why didn't they go for him N1?

I came in at the end of day one with a big case on Faust, I'm guessing they left him alive to see if my case given more time would lead to a mislynch, also making me look bad. I think once my case failed to get him lynched yesterday they decided he wouldn't be lynched today, and he was by far the most active player.

[ashersky]

Big apologies for missing a lot of the end of yesterday -- was unexpected not on the forums for multiple days.

[ashersky]

vote: TWM based on the way the day ended.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: TWM based on the way the day ended.

How is that my responsibility or indicative of my alignment?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Although I should take some responsibility that Jake was lynched. I am frustrated that my RR-Jake team theory didn't pan out. It felt really good to me.

I should do a reread of the whole of Day2 I suppose. That probably isn't going to happen until after the weekend as I have a friend coming into town on Friday and a busy work day tomorrow.

[gkrieg13]

Also sorry for missing day end.  I thought I would be awake by then and wasn't.

So, I think we should probably massclaim at this point.  Then I'll go back and reread.  I was kind of hoping that I would be dead...

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I was kind of hoping that I would be dead...

How morbid.

[EFHW]

I hope we hear a lot more from ash and RR today. And lots from everyone else too, but they have been particularly inactive.

[EFHW]

Thinking about the massclaim idea. On the one hand, we risk exposing town PRs, but on the other hand, we've only lost VTs so far, so fakeclaiming will be hard.

[Awaclus]

I'm also in favor of massclaim.

[EFHW]

If we get a consensus, Joseph should make the order.

[ashersky]

Note sure massclaim is the right call here, and it seems scummy to raise it, no?

We've got VT flips and one claim.  We know it has to be BBXXXX if Awaclus is telling the truth.  We know there's a full Roleblocker if Awaclus is telling the truth.

Massclaim then serves what purpose?  We can out an RB and confirm Awaclus.  Depending on order, scum could fake that if Awaclus is also scum.  There's no difference between 3 and 4 Ts, so unless we get multiple other PRs claimed, we don't get new information.  And scum knows how many Ts there are (probably, within two for sure) and have wiggle room to make stuff up.

Like, if we have 5 or 6 Ts, Awaclus can safely fakeclaim 1-Shot RB specifically and we'd out him when no one claims RB in a mass claim.  That's a good thing, but seems like the only benefit right now.  Except a scum partner just claims RB and they confirm each other.

If that was the plan (the 5/6 T plan), they've have killed Joseph by now, as the UB not inheriting a power would be risky.

Eh, can someone lay out some more benefits to a mass claim?

[EFHW]

Maybe just the roleblocker should claim.

[EFHW]

I get the problems you presented about that, but I also think we could get some useful information from the process.

[mcmcsalot]

I get the problems you presented about that, but I also think we could get some useful information from the process.

I also think massclaim might not be a good idea. We are 5town/3scum with 8 people. I believe that is mylo so I can see any information we can get is good but we have 2 more nights no matter what(pending 2nk). What happens if we block a nk, we go to 4town/3scum, or 5town/2scum. In the 4/3 scenarios we gain an extra day and limit the lynch pool, in 5/2 scenario we actually get an additional mislynch.

I keep saying awaclus claim is a pretty safe one for scum to make because of this reason. It really seems like we want to claim or at least claim roleblockers as Faust said. But the possibility of a single B roll means a roleblocker claim doesn't confirm awaclus as town, only a full claim does. Even a claim of a roleblocker and additional oneshot roleblocker doesn't disprove awaclus claim because of the potential of BBB.

I think we should probably do no claiming unless someone has a result of some kind to share which would be valuable as we are in mylo.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think I'd rather not mass claim. But my opinion could be stronger.

[EFHW]

I realized that I misinterpreted the set up and scum could actually safely claim VT.  So there goes that.

[ashersky]

No lynch could help here.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea I have always felt the claim pushing is scummy. I need to reread basically the whole game with town!faust in mind before I jump to conclusions but gkriegs first post of the day reads pretty scummy to me. Specifically when comparing ash and gkrieg who both missed deadline, ash is how I expect town to return, quick apology and right down to business, not more disinterest and a lazy push for anti-town behavior.

[gkrieg13]

Yea I have always felt the claim pushing is scummy. I need to reread basically the whole game with town!faust in mind before I jump to conclusions but gkriegs first post of the day reads pretty scummy to me. Specifically when comparing ash and gkrieg who both missed deadline, ash is how I expect town to return, quick apology and right down to business, not more disinterest and a lazy push for anti-town behavior.

I don't think that's how my post reads at all.  I said I would reread, and I thought we at least needed to discuss a massclaim.  The points that people have put out have been good ones against it.

I also agree that we should 100% go for a no lynch today.  I understand now that with so much unknown, and the fact that we probably don't have too many letters, a mass claim is not good for today.

It wasn't more disinterest, it was stating that I hoped I would be dead.  Those are two very different things.  I don't think I've been playing super well, and I was hoping that scum would've killed me last night.  I still need to reread how the EoD went yesterday.

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.1

The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky

Not voting (7): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus, EFHW, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

Yea I have always felt the claim pushing is scummy. I need to reread basically the whole game with town!faust in mind before I jump to conclusions but gkriegs first post of the day reads pretty scummy to me. Specifically when comparing ash and gkrieg who both missed deadline, ash is how I expect town to return, quick apology and right down to business, not more disinterest and a lazy push for anti-town behavior.

I don't think that's how my post reads at all.  I said I would reread, and I thought we at least needed to discuss a massclaim.  The points that people have put out have been good ones against it.

I also agree that we should 100% go for a no lynch today.  I understand now that with so much unknown, and the fact that we probably don't have too many letters, a mass claim is not good for today.

It wasn't more disinterest, it was stating that I hoped I would be dead.  Those are two very different things.  I don't think I've been playing super well, and I was hoping that scum would've killed me last night.  I still need to reread how the EoD went yesterday.

Why would they have killed you?

[EFHW]

The strong likelihood of scum also having a roleblocker also means they can claim their role and targets truthfully, unless there is some huge disparity between their expressed reads and the roleblocking.

Doesn't deciding to no lynch now kind of kill the conversation?  It's like giving scum two nk's in a row.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I read a previous game where no-lynch was discussed, but wasn't followed (can't remember which one), but can't remember the theory behind it. Is it just trying to get numbers to a point where it is more favorable for town?

How does it impact the flow of the game? Does it act like a time-out in a basketball game? Not that this game has been flowing very well for town, so maybe that would be a good thing.

[mcmcsalot]

It definitely quells a bit of discussion because there is no sense of urgency to "use all the time" though we would want to use all the time we have to analyze and then no lynch.

Also the point being we are at 8p,5t/3s and a no lynch gets us to 7p,4t/3s which means our chances of finding scum go up as there are less townies and we get one more night to possibly get a helpful result.

Wait, no lynch might be bad scum can just kill the ub and we are still at the same odds of finding scum except we have no ic. I mean maybe scum doesn't do that and we still have the chances of night results but I'm not sure it's a clear cut good thing to do.

[ashersky]

Mcmc makes a great point.  Townie.

[Joseph2302]

Mcmc makes a great point.  Townie.

Yh I guess that was pretty towny.

Although so far today, ash has suggested a massclaim and a no lunch, both of which seem bad.

Either he's not thinking before posting, or he's being a manipulative scum.

[EFHW]

Although so far today, ash has suggested a massclaim and a no lunch, both of which seem bad.

Either he's not thinking before posting, or he's being a manipulative scum.

ash didn't suggest the massclaim, gkrieg did.

[EFHW]

Mcmc makes a great point.  Townie.

He could easily make that post as scum.

[ashersky]

Mcmc makes a great point.  Townie.

He could easily make that post as scum.

Could say that about any post.

I think no lynch and the attached slow down help scum here -- atypically.  The usual pro town reasons don't apply, and he decided to highlight that.

Basically, with no counter now, Joseph IS an IC.  All townies have the same of finding scum odds now.  No lynch + Joseph kill does nothing.  Better to have Joseph alive for this important day.

[Joseph2302]

Although so far today, ash has suggested a massclaim and a no lunch, both of which seem bad.

Either he's not thinking before posting, or he's being a manipulative scum.

ash didn't suggest the massclaim, gkrieg did.

Oh. My mistake

[Roadrunner7671]

I disagree with Ash here. Someone would've figured that out at one point or another, and mcmc just happened to figure it out first, so he decided to point it out to get town points. Providing factual information isn't towny, it's non-alignment indicative.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

[EFHW]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What makes you still say yes to massclaim after all the objections that have been raised?

[ashersky]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What makes you still say yes to massclaim after all the objections that have been raised?

Probably his scum alignment.

[EFHW]

Mcmc makes a great point.  Townie.

He could easily make that post as scum.

Could say that about any post.

I think no lynch and the attached slow down help scum here -- atypically.  The usual pro town reasons don't apply, and he decided to highlight that.

Basically, with no counter now, Joseph IS an IC.  All townies have the same of finding scum odds now.  No lynch + Joseph kill does nothing.  Better to have Joseph alive for this important day.

I understood why you found it towny.  I'm saying mcmc is capable of constructing that kind of towny post, as RR described well above.

[EFHW]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What makes you still say yes to massclaim after all the objections that have been raised?

Probably his scum alignment.

Is that based on anything else?

[Joseph2302]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What? This needs an explanation, since it seems to be the worst of both worlds

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What? This needs an explanation, since it seems to be the worst of both worlds

Well no lynch is obviously bad. It will just likely result in you dying. So I don't know why you think that would be a good idea.

And I feel like mass claim will at least give us some information to go off. It might not be perfect information, but it will be a good starting point and at this point in the game I feel like we need something substantial to go off. I understand that others might not want it, which is understandable and is why I am not insisting on it.

No lynch seems like it is strictly bad. Mass claim seems like it is both good and bad and since we are getting close to a place of no return, why not put it all out there? We really need a correct lynch today.

[EFHW]

I'm going to back off the gkrieg thing for now.  Knowing Jake was town is helpful.  The town narratives fit gkrieg's posts well enough for doubt to creep in.  I found his second post on me really distorted, but I guess that's understandable given the pressure I was putting him under.

This means mcmc, ashersky and RR are the current question marks for me. I have a town read on TWM and Awaclus's claim would be unlikely from scum.  I keep toying with the idea that the town roleblocker should claim, but we couldn't really trust that anyway, so Awaclus isn't IC but also not a scumread at the moment.

[EFHW]

Just realized that POE (from my perspective) means 3 out of gkrieg, RR, mcmc and ashersky are scum.

[ashersky]

My POE has me at 3 of gkrieg, TWM, RR, and EFHW are scum.

Joseph is IC, I believe Awaclus, and I read mcmc as towniest of the rest of those alive.

Why do you see TWM as town, EFHW?  I'm not seeing a town narrative there.

[EFHW]

I'm interested to hear how other people's POEs sort out.

PPE: ash

[ashersky]

Time for a popsquiz from everyone, I think.

Scummiest to Towniest:

TWM = gkrieg ?= RR >>>>> EFHW >>> mcmcsalot >>> Awaclus ≥ Joseph > ashersky

[EFHW]

My POE has me at 3 of gkrieg, TWM, RR, and EFHW are scum.

Joseph is IC, I believe Awaclus, and I read mcmc as towniest of the rest of those alive.

Why do you see TWM as town, EFHW?  I'm not seeing a town narrative there.

Day 1 especially I thought he had really good points and I think Jake and RR riled him up so much that he seemed scummy Day 2 but was just upset. I don't think newbie scum would try to pull off the back and forth from the end of Day 2. I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

I am not sure what you are asking.

[Joseph2302]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What? This needs an explanation, since it seems to be the worst of both worlds

Well no lynch is obviously bad. It will just likely result in you dying. So I don't know why you think that would be a good idea.

And I feel like mass claim will at least give us some information to go off. It might not be perfect information, but it will be a good starting point and at this point in the game I feel like we need something substantial to go off. I understand that others might not want it, which is understandable and is why I am not insisting on it.

No lynch seems like it is strictly bad. Mass claim seems like it is both good and bad and since we are getting close to a place of no return, why not put it all out there? We really need a correct lynch today.

Sorry you said Not no lynch, I missed the not. Apologies

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

I am not sure what you are asking.

The post you quoted from above.  In the first part of it I had a narrative of you from Day 2 and I'm wondering if you feel like it is accurate.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry you said Not no lynch, I missed the not. Apologies

That's cool. Double negatives man. They are not never the worst.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think Jake and RR riled him up so much that he seemed scummy Day 2 but was just upset. I don't think newbie scum would try to pull off the back and forth from the end of Day 2.

This part?

I guess. I mean, I didn't feel like I was upset, I mean, this is just a game. I wasn't like screaming or pounding my fists on my keyboard. They were a bit frustrating. But I wasn't voting for them just because I was frustrated, but because it seemed like what they were doing was a legitimate tactic that they could use as mafia. Just try and ham it up as much as possible and then pretend to turn on each other if they got called out on it. So it felt right, so I went for it. Obviously that was wrong, but I would say it was more logic driven than emotionally driven. There was emotion, sure, but it wasn't the controlling force behind my actions.

I think there is still a narrative there for RR to play off Jake and hide behind him in a sense, but I want to go back and reread and reset my thinking with the new context that we have.

[EFHW]

I think Jake and RR riled him up so much that he seemed scummy Day 2 but was just upset. I don't think newbie scum would try to pull off the back and forth from the end of Day 2.

This part?

I guess. I mean, I didn't feel like I was upset, I mean, this is just a game. I wasn't like screaming or pounding my fists on my keyboard. They were a bit frustrating. But I wasn't voting for them just because I was frustrated, but because it seemed like what they were doing was a legitimate tactic that they could use as mafia. Just try and ham it up as much as possible and then pretend to turn on each other if they got called out on it. So it felt right, so I went for it. Obviously that was wrong, but I would say it was more logic driven than emotionally driven. There was emotion, sure, but it wasn't the controlling force behind my actions.

I think there is still a narrative there for RR to play off Jake and hide behind him in a sense, but I want to go back and reread and reset my thinking with the new context that we have.

ok, thanks

[EFHW]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

[mcmcsalot]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

[Roadrunner7671]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

[EFHW]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

Several people have noted that most of your interactions Day 1 and Day 2 were with Jake.  Can you say why?

[gkrieg13]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

[gkrieg13]

Ok I'm going to start rereading with the end of D2.  But first I was thinking about some things.

The main thing is why hasn't Awaclus died yet?  If he really were a 1-shot RB, wouldn't you want to kill him N1, so that Joseph inherits a 1-shot RB?  Isn't that like one of the worst things Awaclus could inherit?

[ashersky]

Ok I'm going to start rereading with the end of D2.  But first I was thinking about some things.

The main thing is why hasn't Awaclus died yet?  If he really were a 1-shot RB, wouldn't you want to kill him N1, so that Joseph inherits a 1-shot RB?  Isn't that like one of the worst things Awaclus could inherit?

Well, Awa can't inherit anything.

Also, leaving him alive leaves a mislynch on the table.  Plus, PR hunting is a thing if they know a lot were rolled.

[mcmcsalot]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

Quite a bit actually, I know for some reason people hate relying on cases that are older than a day, but he was brought to L-1 day one for being scummy and the interaction of the soft claim situation with robz. Similarly to how jake flipping town makes me feel a bit scummy toward roadrunner, robz being the lynch ending day one and being town I see awaclus as slightly scummy. I really didn't like his answer for lurking all of day 2 by stating he felt it was the best thing to do as a claimed or, to let others make cases and simply give opinions. There is also the claim, which I have never believed, I've mentioned countless times how safe a claim it is for scum to make. There is part of me that finds him less scummy than I did because I saw a lot of Faust/awa connections which now mean something totally different than had faust been scum.

[ashersky]

You know, if there's another 1-Shot RB, they should claim.

[gkrieg13]

I'm not going to vote RR.

Just pointing out interactions where I see them.

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

This is scummy from Awaclus.  He tends to be stubborn about really strange things when he is scum.

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

This is right after the case on faust from mcmc.

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

I think we can save assessing him for another day (day3 or day4?) when claiming role blocker or no role blocker makes more sense. Doing so now, late Day2 doesn't make any sense and I wouldn't want to lynch him without first checking that information.

This is interesting, and makes me want to have the RB claim more and more.  I'm actually confused why we don't want the RB to claim?  I agree with lynching today (it gives us 2 possible days of lynching correctly if the NK doesn't go through, instead of just 1), but why not have the RB claim?  It lets us at least link someone to Awaclus if he is scum, and if he isn't scum, it isn't like we are giving scum too much information anyways. 

I guess the upside of leaving the RB silent is that if there really is an RB, they would just be roleblocked by the scum RB and then we won't get two lynches.  But the chances of our RB picking the correct scum that is performing the kill is really small anyway.

Do you two really not see what I am seeing here?

Who else is going to join the RR wagon though? Is anyone on that is going to go for that that isn't already on it?

Or do you want to try something else?

This stands out to me.  He is trying to keep the lynch on Jake or RR, while faust and Joseph are trying to push from those two wagons.

@TWM, Jake doesn't respond to feedback. But he's an informative lynch and a major disruption to the game and maybe scum partners with gkrieg, so that's why I am voting him. Scum purposely try to keep him around when he is town.

Now that Jake is flipped town, has your perception of me changed any?

I'm a really informative lynch.  vote: EFHW

This is really weird from EFHW.  She only has one vote on her at this point, so this isn't exactly a risky self-vote.

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

At this point in the day, if ash is town, it is very unlikely that scum would be lynched.  With no bussing, even with just me not being there, it would've had to be all town on the scum wagon to get them lynched.  We already know that the RR wagon is all town at this point, so I wouldn't be surprised if all scum was on the Jake wagon at this point.  I think scum would be more likely to lynch town!RR at this point because it doesn't give nearly as much information as the Jake lynch, and because people weren't as opposed to it.  Actually just reading the EoD, I get the feeling that RR will be the lynch because so many people are voicing their support of the lynch, so I'm surprised that Jake was the lynch.

I would actually be very surprised if RR weren't scum after seeing this.

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

This is the vote that allowed them to lynch Jake I think.

Please do me a favor and lynch RR, EFHW, ash once I'm dead.

I think I agree with 2 of these.

Day 2 Final Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22


With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

And this is the final vote count.  I would guess that all the scum are on-wagon, with the way the lynch went down.  I guess really all that means is that I think ash is town atm.

Also, the way people weren't willing to switch to RR at the end just HAS to mean that he is scum.  Especially because we know that everyone voting for him was town.

I'm thinking the team is EFHW/RR/TWM personally.

[gkrieg13]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

Quite a bit actually, I know for some reason people hate relying on cases that are older than a day, but he was brought to L-1 day one for being scummy and the interaction of the soft claim situation with robz. Similarly to how jake flipping town makes me feel a bit scummy toward roadrunner, robz being the lynch ending day one and being town I see awaclus as slightly scummy. I really didn't like his answer for lurking all of day 2 by stating he felt it was the best thing to do as a claimed or, to let others make cases and simply give opinions. There is also the claim, which I have never believed, I've mentioned countless times how safe a claim it is for scum to make. There is part of me that finds him less scummy than I did because I saw a lot of Faust/awa connections which now mean something totally different than had faust been scum.

What has given you any reason to "never believe" Awaclus' claim?

[gkrieg13]

Also I think the full RB should definitely claim today, as said in my post above.

[gkrieg13]

vote: TWM based on the way the day ended.

This is the post that makes me feel like ash is town.

Interesting to note that both EFHW and Awaclus are onboard for the massclaim. 

Note sure massclaim is the right call here, and it seems scummy to raise it, no?

We've got VT flips and one claim.  We know it has to be BBXXXX if Awaclus is telling the truth.  We know there's a full Roleblocker if Awaclus is telling the truth.

Massclaim then serves what purpose?  We can out an RB and confirm Awaclus.  Depending on order, scum could fake that if Awaclus is also scum.  There's no difference between 3 and 4 Ts, so unless we get multiple other PRs claimed, we don't get new information.  And scum knows how many Ts there are (probably, within two for sure) and have wiggle room to make stuff up.

Like, if we have 5 or 6 Ts, Awaclus can safely fakeclaim 1-Shot RB specifically and we'd out him when no one claims RB in a mass claim.  That's a good thing, but seems like the only benefit right now.  Except a scum partner just claims RB and they confirm each other.

If that was the plan (the 5/6 T plan), they've have killed Joseph by now, as the UB not inheriting a power would be risky.

Eh, can someone lay out some more benefits to a mass claim?

I disagree with this here.  I think the massclaim might not be the best option, but it is certainly not scummy to bring it up.

I think it would be good to tie someone to Awaclus if they are scum.  We could find that a very townie person ends up claiming RB, which gets us somewhere.  Either way, it gives us a lot more to go off of, which we need if we are going to lynch today (which I now think we should).

I don't get the bolded part.  The flip would happen first, so I don't get why the UB not inheriting a power is risky?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Do you two really not see what I am seeing here?

Who else is going to join the RR wagon though? Is anyone on that is going to go for that that isn't already on it?

Or do you want to try something else?

This stands out to me.  He is trying to keep the lynch on Jake or RR, while faust and Joseph are trying to push from those two wagons.

That isn't accurate. faust and Joseph were on RR at this point. And I specifically ask if they want to go elsewhere and got nothing back.

And I go to RR about 5 posts later, but go back to Jake when it became more apparent RR wasn't happening and jake became scummier wanting to lynch awaclus.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

[Joseph2302]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

Well. So wine and Gkrieg are definitely on the same team.

Presumably town

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

Well. So wine and Gkrieg are definitely on the same team.

Presumably town

Well, of course, there is the off chance that he is the Godfather.

[gkrieg13]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

Well. So wine and Gkrieg are definitely on the same team.

Presumably town

I think this was definitely a good thing to claim, considering there were a lot of people that thought I was scum.  I think this also clears TWM in my eyes.  I will have to go back and reread him to make sure I believe the claim.

[EFHW]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

I wish you had said something Day 2. Why 2/3?

[gkrieg13]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

I wish you had said something Day 2. Why 2/3?

He's accounting for the fact that I might be the Godfather.

[EFHW]

So from the perspective of anyone who is VT, we most likely have BBET##.

[EFHW]

BBCT## also possible

[Awaclus]

Quite a bit actually, I know for some reason people hate relying on cases that are older than a day, but he was brought to L-1 day one for being scummy and the interaction of the soft claim situation with robz. Similarly to how jake flipping town makes me feel a bit scummy toward roadrunner, robz being the lynch ending day one and being town I see awaclus as slightly scummy. I really didn't like his answer for lurking all of day 2 by stating he felt it was the best thing to do as a claimed or, to let others make cases and simply give opinions. There is also the claim, which I have never believed, I've mentioned countless times how safe a claim it is for scum to make. There is part of me that finds him less scummy than I did because I saw a lot of Faust/awa connections which now mean something totally different than had faust been scum.

I have already debunked this case.

[mcmcsalot]

@efhw why does there have to be at least one T?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

I wish you had said something Day 2. Why 2/3?

I wasn't sure when it was best to say something. It was a mix of trying to make sure I wasn't giving away information to mafia unnecessarily. If gkrieg had gotten close to being lynched I certainly would have brought it up.

And yes, the 2/3 thing is godfather. Not that he has a 2/3 chance of mafia.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Like I mentioned I'll have somewhat limited availability for about 24 - 36 hours. Have a buddy flying in and spending part of the weekend.

I'll check in once or twice here and there, but won't be able to get to that large reread until probably Sunday or Monday.

[Awaclus]

Isn't 2/3 chance of being town pretty close to what the odds would be without any cop results anyway?

[Awaclus]

I suppose it's slightly better now that a bunch of townies have died.

[EFHW]

@efhw why does there have to be at least one T?

We've had 4 so far.  Anyone who is VT knows there are at least 5 VT's.  At least two come from filling up the roles to 12 since the 6 rolls can yield at most 6 roles (haha). EEE, EEEE, CCC and CCCC all yield one less role per roll. So that accounts for a possible third VT. BBBB and BBBBB also give one less role per roll, so that accounts for a possible 4th VT.  The 5th is unaccounted for and would be from a roll.  I really doubt we have BBBB or BBBBB, because how could all those people have kept quiet?  But there are other letters that yield fewer roles than rolls, so the 4th VT could still be filler. We don't have enough letters to account for a 5th filler VT.

[EFHW]

I suppose it's slightly better now that a bunch of townies have died.

2/3 isn't really accurate, because that assumes gkrieg is scum. 9 people were alive last night, we don't think Joseph or Awaclus are godfathers, and TWM says he isn't one, so out of 6 remaining people, who would be his target pool for scumhunting, 1 is the godfather.  So the chances of TWM getting a true result are 5/6. I think that's the relevant number here.

[EFHW]

I forgot it was N1.  There were 11 people alive, the same three would have been ruled out, so 8 possibles and 1 godfather, 7/8 chance he got a true result. 

[EFHW]

If he considered Awaclus a possible godfather then 8/9.

[EFHW]

If he considered Awaclus a possible godfather then 8/9.

Or rather, if you think Awaclus could be the godfather then you would think the chances of getting a true result were 8/9.

[EFHW]

Sorry for all the posts, but if we take the 3 known townies we learned about since then into consideration, we know they all had 0 chance of being the godfather. So 5/6 was the correct number.  If you are town, then there are only 5 possible godfathers and the odds of a true result are 4/5.

[gkrieg13]

I think the odds are a little different than that (where is Calamitas or SA when you need them!).  But either way, it shows that the chance that he copped the Godfather are small enough that people should consider me an IC if you believe TWM.

Which is nice because with Joseph, TWM, and me, that means that to any other townie, they just need to find the town left in the other 4 people.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation? 

[gkrieg13]

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

Uh...  Do you remember that I was like crazy close to getting lynched D1?

[Awaclus]

With this claim in mind, I think that mass claiming is substantially better now.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

Uh...  Do you remember that I was like crazy close to getting lynched D1?

No I didn't 

But why would that make him want to invest you? Your lynch would've been informative and if your wagon got run up on D2, people might not believe TWM or not care.

[mcmcsalot]

I too thought to myself why is town!twm voicing this information now. As opposed to when either of them have a wagon, or simply toward the end of day incase he is night killed. I guess it makes sense if people are debating claiming and you have relevant information which requires you to claim, maybe you just go ahead and do it.

I'm still not sure massclaiming is smart. The fact of the matter is with no scum flips, we have no way of actually figuring out the setup. A massclaim could very well lead to a setup that fits and we will have no idea if scum is lyning about being a vt or lying about being a pr and there are more T's than we think.

[mcmcsalot]

With this claim in mind, I think that mass claiming is substantially better now.

I'm open to it but explain why massclaiming is better now that we have someone claiming a single letter role?

I think the odds of us catching scum from a massclaim are still less than the odds of us blocking a nk.

[gkrieg13]

I too thought to myself why is town!twm voicing this information now. As opposed to when either of them have a wagon, or simply toward the end of day incase he is night killed. I guess it makes sense if people are debating claiming and you have relevant information which requires you to claim, maybe you just go ahead and do it.

I'm still not sure massclaiming is smart. The fact of the matter is with no scum flips, we have no way of actually figuring out the setup. A massclaim could very well lead to a setup that fits and we will have no idea if scum is lyning about being a vt or lying about being a pr and there are more T's than we think.

Keep in mind this is also TWM's first game.  Plus it isn't that bad of a time to claim.  It allows people to not waste too much time rereading me and coming up with cases.  I mean we are at MYLO.  I think if he claimed later in the day, we might not have as much time to find real scum. 

I also see why a massclaim might be better at this point.  At least in doing so, we can tie scum to fake claims.  Plus, if we don't do it today, when will we do it?

[Awaclus]

I'm open to it but explain why massclaiming is better now that we have someone claiming a single letter role?

Because that could help us determine whether or not TWM is fakeclaiming.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

I don't know if gkrieg necessarily did any specific thing to warrant an investigation. I wasn't really thinking along those terms.

I had a townread on him early Day1 and was part of the group that didn't go along with his lynch late and instead ended up voting for Robz. Between that and finding Joseph scummy (and then also being proved wrong) I started to second guess all my reads, so thought I would investigate a player that I thought was townie but was much less confident about once Day1 ended. I also considered faust and EFHW, but ultimately went with gkrieg.

From my perspective it felt like a solid investigation choice.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I too thought to myself why is town!twm voicing this information now. As opposed to when either of them have a wagon, or simply toward the end of day incase he is night killed. I guess it makes sense if people are debating claiming and you have relevant information which requires you to claim, maybe you just go ahead and do it.

Well EFHW wanted me to do it yesterday. So there obviously isn't an optimal moment that everyone agrees on.

Once I established we weren't doing a full mass claim, I felt I personally should claim today. And I wanted to do it relatively early due to my semi-inactive status starting this afternoon. I saw that people were starting to do rereads and wanted to get the information out there before everyone started doing that, and wanted to get it out there before I got busy rather than wait until 2 days before deadline and put everyone into a state of chaos with little to no time to react or respond accordingly.

Basically I didn't want to get to a situation where there might be two people voting for gkrieg at the end of day that weren't around and unable to move their vote because I didn't claim until the end of day and we couldn't get a lynch.

Hope that makes sense.

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.2

The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky

Not voting (7): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus, EFHW, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

Each pr has to make the call of when to claim, so TWM did what he thought was right. For future reference, being 1-shot would have made it safe information wise to claim Day 2, but there may have been other considerations.

[EFHW]

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

Uh...  Do you remember that I was like crazy close to getting lynched D1?

No I didn't 

But why would that make him want to invest you? Your lynch would've been informative and if your wagon got run up on D2, people might not believe TWM or not care.

These objections read scummy to me. Any of the wagons was a good choice and the second point makes it sound like it isn't worth investigating at all!

[EFHW]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking RR, mcmc and x.

[EFHW]

X would have to be ash.

[Awaclus]

I'm thinking RR, mcmc and x.

I tentatively agree with this.

[EFHW]

We've been operating on the assumption that Awaclus is town. I think it is time for the roleblocker to claim, so we don't get led astray. Fakeclaiming now would be unwise.

[ashersky]

unvote

Although, not sure I believe him.

1-Shot Cop or 1-Shot Doc is the go-to fake claim for scum.

I actually think it makes gkrieg more likely to be town, though.

I think RR's reaction was a staged bus.  TWM-RR-x, with EFHW POE'd into X.

[gkrieg13]

vote: RR

I mean clearly he has to be the lynch for today.

[Roadrunner7671]

I mean clearly he has to be the lynch for today.

What's that supposed to mean?

[gkrieg13]

I mean clearly he has to be the lynch for today.

What's that supposed to mean?

The way the lynch went down yesterday, there is very little chance that you are town.

[EFHW]

Silence still from the roleblocker.

[ashersky]

Silence still from the roleblocker.

I assume this is a "not RB" claim?

[EFHW]

Silence still from the roleblocker.

I assume this is a "not RB" claim?

I figured that was obvious by now.

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.3

Roadrunner7671 (1): gkrieg13

Not voting (7): The_Wine_Merchant, Awaclus, EFHW, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671, ashersky

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

I've been wanting the roleblocker to claim because then I think I will know the three person scumteam.  But I guess it's not necessary, yet.  We could do one more lynch and they can roleblock a likely suspect. But we're risking Awaclus's claim not being true by continuing despite a claim.

vote: RR

[EFHW]

*despite no claim

[Joseph2302]

I'll try and get back into this game this evening or tomorrow.
Last few days have been super busy

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'll try and get back into this game this evening or tomorrow.
Last few days have been super busy

Me too.

[Roadrunner7671]

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

[Roadrunner7671]

Silence still from the roleblocker.

Maybe there's no roleblocker

[ashersky]

vote: rr

[Roadrunner7671]

Is that an unannounced L-1?

[ashersky]

Is that an unannounced L-1?

Nope.

[EFHW]

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

POE.

[EFHW]

Silence still from the roleblocker.

Maybe there's no roleblocker

Maybe. But I was the only one asking for a claim, it's not like there was a town consensus behind it.

[EFHW]

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

POE.

Also you had a really scummy response to TWM's claim.

[EFHW]

Is there an advantage to lynching someone else on the scum team besides RR? His partners will throw him under the bus so we won't learn anything from the wagon. I also think mcmc is a more dangerous player.

[gkrieg13]

Is there an advantage to lynching someone else on the scum team besides RR? His partners will throw him under the bus so we won't learn anything from the wagon. I also think mcmc is a more dangerous player.

Considering we are at MYLO, and possibly have a roleblocker, there is no advantage.  You definitely want to lynch the almost-known scum first.

[ashersky]

Definitely just lynch scum.  Nothing fancy at mylo.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

POE.

Also you had a really scummy response to TWM's claim.

I'll agree with that.

[ashersky]

Is that an unannounced L-1?

Actually, given how recent the vote count had been before this, this is scummy.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is that an unannounced L-1?

Actually, given how recent the vote count had been before this, this is scummy.

Of course it is

[Joseph2302]

This evening I promise I'll catch up

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I haven't been able to catch up at all. Sorry guys. Busy weekend, now a busy work week and now sick.

I think I am still inclined to vote for RR. I worry that I am just allowing myself to go along with the crowd, but he hasn't done anything to make me feel differently about him (aside from him obviously not being partners with Jake).

I think there is a good narrative for RR being scum:

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

Add in his reaction to my investigation on gkrieg and I think I am willing at this point to vote for him.

Vote: RR

This is an announced L-1 with four votes: (gkrieg, EFHW, ash and myself)

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.4

Roadrunner7671 (4): gkrieg13, EFHW, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time. this is in about two days

[Joseph2302]

So, the claims so far are:

Me - UB
Awaclus - 1-shot RB. He hasn't told us if he's used his shot yet, which would be useful information. Not been counterclaimed though.
TWM - 1-shot cop, and apparently gkrieg came back towny. Which means gkrieg & TWM are probably town, as I don't suspect them for a scumteam.

And RR doesn't agree, and thinks TWM/gkrieg is a scumteam. And RR was the one that really pushed that jake mislynch.
Man I kind of really wish we'd lynched RR yesterday. But oh well.

I'd be fine with lynching RR.

[EFHW]

Intent to hammer?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Intent to hammer?

I think that would be fine. However, we haven't heard from either Awaclus or mcmcsalot in the last three days, not being critical. We all have been relatively quiet today. Maybe wait to see if they have anything to add?

[Joseph2302]

Intent to hammer?

Yes.

Frankly, I don't see a better option.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm the easy lynch. Don't want to think too much? Vote RR!

But we're at LyLo, so this is like super bad.

[Roadrunner7671]

Please intend to hammer before actually hammering. This goes out to anyone.

[Joseph2302]

Please intend to hammer before actually hammering. This goes out to anyone.

I did.

Intent to hammer?

Yes.

Frankly, I don't see a better option.

[Joseph2302]

I'll be hammering in 1-72 hours.

[Joseph2302]

Probably nearer 72

[schadd]

prods sent to awaclus and mcmcsalot

[mcmcsalot]

okay I promise I will catch up in the morning. In the meantime can someone give or point me to the case on roadrunner.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

OK:

I am doing a full reread, cause I am just sick in bed with nothing else to do. Just starting from the beginning and thinking things through.

Nothing much to notice early until the Joseph wagon starts up:

First vote count has these people on Joseph:

Awaclus, The_Wine_Merchant, McGarnacle, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22

Once he gets to the point of claiming the voters look like this:

Awaclus, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, TWM, faust

Then we get into the Robz wagon:

faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22

After his wagon loses steam (temporarily) gkrieg, mcmc and EFHW start to pick up, but don't get a lot of votes until Awaclus:

Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Calamitas, gkrieg

Here Awaclus claims and the wagon dissipates and starts up again on Robz. Something interesting to look at here is that if my result on gkrieg is accurate then only townies were voting for Awaclus at this time. Ashersky immediately gets the ball rolling back toward Robz (I think there were already people voting for Robz at this time. Oh actually it was just me) and gkrieg joins as well with the final Robz vote being:

The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus, EFHW, Calamitas, faust

So, maybe this is faulty reasoning, but this does make me suspect Awaclus a little bit more as his wagon was really quick in forming and was made up of very hindsight townie players, so perhaps less likely to have scum partners voting, as they might want to sit back and consider their options. And if he is suspect that makes me slightly suspect ashersky as well. But I think we would want to see an Awaclus flip scum before making that judgement call.

It is also worth noting that if setup the hypothesis that Awaclus is town then all the major Day1 wagons were on town players: Joseph, Robz, Awaclus. How often do all major wagons Day1 focus only on town players? Gkrieg was the only other mid-major wagon, and my result also point him toward being town (this is what I was trying to bring up awkwardly yesterday).

Day is really a giant big mess and that is partially my fault.

Lowlights are obviously the Jake/RR wagon. I think I agree with gkrieg's conclusion about RR needing to be mafia based off how the day ended.

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22.

If RR is town then from my perspective (unless gkrieg is the Godfather) the mafia team is 3 of EFHW, mcmc, Awaclus and ashersky and while I guess that is plausible it feels more likely that RR is mafia.

If I look at the RR wagon when it was at its biggest it was this:

faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant (so again all town on this alternate wagon just before the end of day).

This makes me suspect RR in the same way that I suspect Awaclus above, although this wagon was slightly less quick.

It is notable that EFHW and Awaclus are both very unwilling to lynch RR here, although EFHW has obviously changed direction since the start of the day. Although Awaclus was more adamant that the wanted to lynch Jake than that he didn't want to lynch RR. I don't know where Awaclus is on the RR wagon today.

So summary from wagons mostly:

Day1 I get scummy from Awaclus (this changes depending on whether we get a RB claim or not) and ashersky (this is mostly based off whether Awaclus is mafia, if he isn't ashersky isn't as scummy from this)

Day2 I get RR being scummy obviously and if true, EFHW and Awaclus are a bit more suspect, although they were both pretty forward with their opinions. I don't know them well enough to know if that is their playstyle (I am guessing it just is for Awaclus), but maybe mafia wants to be more flexible there to pretend to be townie? But mostly I didn't see anything to make change my mind about wanting to lynch RR.

And I don't like his most recent statement saying it is the easy lynch. Even if it is (which I am not convinced that it is based on how yesterday went down), that is a poor defense, especially if it is the only one.

[Awaclus]

I'm here and actively reading the game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm here and actively reading the game.

Cool.

[EFHW]

@TWM, Finding out Jake was town and gkrieg probably is town and RR's posts today are what caused me to change direction on RR.

[EFHW]

That was a useful reread.

[Joseph2302]

I'm the easy lynch. Don't want to think too much? Vote RR!

But we're at LyLo, so this is like super bad.

Claim already Mr scum

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm the easy lynch. Don't want to think too much? Vote RR!

But we're at LyLo, so this is like super bad.

Claim already Mr scum

I'm a VT. This doesn't really help me, but I probably would've claimed Roleblocker if I was scum.

[EFHW]

He probably would have. unvote Sorry, but I need to hear the roleblocker claim.

[EFHW]

If we have one, scum know who it is by POE.

[EFHW]

Clearing Awaclus is more important than whatever we might gain from an unclaimed roleblocker.

[EFHW]

In fact, each person who hasn't claimed a role yet should post. I'll start. I am not the roleblocker.

[mcmcsalot]

Ugh these claims we have gotten into are so unhelpful. I still don't believe awaclus claim. Still not claiming my role.

[mcmcsalot]

If we have one, scum know who it is by POE.

I don't think this is true, it depends on who is actually scum out of the people that have claimed and haven't.

[EFHW]

Ugh these claims we have gotten into are so unhelpful. I still don't believe awaclus claim. Still not claiming my role.

don't want your role, just yes/no re: roleblocker.

[ashersky]

Revote RR please.

His claim is the ultimate WIFOM game.

"Scum claims RB here to out the real RB, so my VT claim means I'm really town!"
"But you just said that which means you thought of it which means you are actually scum!"
"But I knew it would look that way so why would I point it out which means I'm town!"
etc. etc.

Lynch RR.

[ashersky]

He probably would have. unvote Sorry, but I need to hear the roleblocker claim.

You don't need to hear the claim.  You need to feel confident it's out there.  Do you?

[Joseph2302]

I'm the easy lynch. Don't want to think too much? Vote RR!

But we're at LyLo, so this is like super bad.

Claim already Mr scum

I'm a VT. This doesn't really help me, but I probably would've claimed Roleblocker if I was scum.

Revote RR please.

His claim is the ultimate WIFOM game.

"Scum claims RB here to out the real RB, so my VT claim means I'm really town!"
"But you just said that which means you thought of it which means you are actually scum!"
"But I knew it would look that way so why would I point it out which means I'm town!"
etc. etc.

Lynch RR.

Yh, RR obviously knew this, so no town cred there. It's almost like he was fishing for the town cred.

Could also possibly be a RR/Awaclus scum team.
Although I'm still going with Awaclus being fine, unless we get a counterclaim

[ashersky]

Yh, RR obviously knew this, so no town cred there. It's almost like he was fishing for the town cred.

Not so much "almost like he was fishing for the town cred" but "he was definitely, absolutely fishing for the town cred."

[ashersky]

I think Awaclus's claim is too risky from scum.  We just ride it out.

I'm wary of painting too many "but if this role claims, it helps us confirm/out him" scenarios -- it just gives scum more ways to hurt Awaclus's cred if he's town.

Which I think he is.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Do we have an opinion on what Awaclus thinks should happen here? I feel like his opinion is one of the most important, but don't remember him stating what he thinks would be best.

[Awaclus]

Do we have an opinion on what Awaclus thinks should happen here? I feel like his opinion is one of the most important, but don't remember him stating what he thinks would be best.

Well, that depends on whether or not the rest of the town can trust me enough to not lynch me despite the roleblocker staying silent. If not, the roleblocker should speak up, but if yes, then there doesn't seem to be any point in revealing any extra information.

[Awaclus]

I think I said earlier that the roleblocker should claim, but that's only because at the time (or maybe before that) mcmc and maybe someone else had been voicing their suspicions about me.

[EFHW]

RR WOULD have claimed roleblocker, though.  He loves claiming stuff.  And then they would know who the roleblocker was when he was counterclaimed.

[EFHW]

He probably would have. unvote Sorry, but I need to hear the roleblocker claim.

You don't need to hear the claim.  You need to feel confident it's out there.  Do you?

Thing is, if Awaclus is town AND TWM got a true result, then you are scum. So what conclusion do I draw from you encouraging me to feel confident he is town?  If TWM didn't get a true result, then the POE on RR doesn't work anymore.

If you are confident that Awaclus is town, and you are town yourself and you believe I am town, then you should be questioning TWM's finding.  You did do this, in a one-off post, but haven't followed up. I guess you don't feel confident in my being town.

[EFHW]

In other words, if hypothetically you, ashersky, were to claim roleblocker, then I would know that TWM got an untrue result or is lying about his role, and can't POE RR anymore.

[EFHW]

Yh, RR obviously knew this, so no town cred there. It's almost like he was fishing for the town cred.

Not so much "almost like he was fishing for the town cred" but "he was definitely, absolutely fishing for the town cred."

To me it read like he felt his lynch was inevitable and was putting one more thing out there in his defense without really expecting it to work.

[ashersky]

In other words, if hypothetically you, ashersky, were to claim roleblocker, then I would know that TWM got an untrue result or is lying about his role, and can't POE RR anymore.

This works from your POV, but not from the POV of someone who is not sure of your alignment.

I think TWM is probably lying about his role, but is probably telling the truth about gkrieg being town (Godfather notwithstanding).  There are some possibilities, right?

TWD town -- gkrieg town
TWD town -- gkrieg Godfather
TWD scum -- gkrieg town
TWD scum -- gkrieg scum, probably Godfather for safety's sake against other claims.

I think likelihood has to go 3, 4, 1, 2.

All told, it makes me feel like TWD is probably the best lynch based on claim-y stuff.  RR is just super scummy from actions and posts, though.

So, for me, not knowing if it is you or gkrieg with them is what keeps me from wanting to just support your requests.

[ashersky]

I feel like gkrieg has been absent for awhile now.  Am I right there?  Or he's just quiet?

[gkrieg13]

I feel like gkrieg has been absent for awhile now.  Am I right there?  Or he's just quiet?

I think I have been absent for like a day?

I've just been busy with stuff (like the workweek starting back up).  I actually didn't think that this day would last this long, and that RR would be lynched by now.

[gkrieg13]

I think the RB needs to claim as well.

I see two scenarios here:

1. RR is town - The RB claiming here is bad, because if one really exists, that means we have a small chance of having another day if the RB chooses correctly and scum doesn't RB them.

2. RR is scum - Well the RB is probably better as an IC anyway, because the chance of them actually stopping the kill is pretty low (and RR might even be the scum roleblocker).  They wouldn't necessarily be an IC, but at least it would lock them into a claim with Awaclus if they are both scum.  Either way, I don't really see the downside in this case.

And with either of the scenarios, the chance that the RB guesses correctly is really low.  It would be different if they were a cop or something, but they have to correctly guess the killer without the scum roleblocker correctly guessing them.  That is just super low odds.

[mcmcsalot]

Still finding ash's thought process to be very towny.

It does seem gkrieg has taken the same "I'm slightly confirmed town therefor going to stop posting" route of Joseph and awaclus.

What are the chances the scum team is EFHW/gkrieg/twm. Don't they just push rr right out the gate since he was scummy yesterday. I have this evening to myself so I can spend some solid computer time putting together some different scenarios.

Specifically I want to look at how people have changed from yesterday to today, and what exactly did TWM's claim due to the day. Who were we going to lynch without the claim and who might the claim have moved us to.

PPE: 2

[gkrieg13]

Still finding ash's thought process to be very towny.

It does seem gkrieg has taken the same "I'm slightly confirmed town therefor going to stop posting" route of Joseph and awaclus.

What are the chances the scum team is EFHW/gkrieg/twm. Don't they just push rr right out the gate since he was scummy yesterday. I have this evening to myself so I can spend some solid computer time putting together some different scenarios.

Specifically I want to look at how people have changed from yesterday to today, and what exactly did TWM's claim due to the day. Who were we going to lynch without the claim and who might the claim have moved us to.

PPE: 2

I'm pretty sure RR was going to be the lynch both before and after for me.  RR is genuinely scummy, and the way that the wagon didn't form on him yesterday, but instead formed on Jake is super scummy.

[ashersky]

A few RB claims scenarios:

--no counter, basically IC.
--scum counter, 1 v 1

Who does scum NK?  RB kill makes another RB, so guaranteed 2 blocks.  Awaclus kill neutralizes UB, but guaranteed 2 blocks.

Except, scum has at least 1-shot RB.

And I just realized gkrieg assumes full RB in his post.  Seems like a scumslip.

[ashersky]

I think the RB needs to claim as well.

I see two scenarios here:

1. RR is town - The RB claiming here is bad, because if one really exists, that means we have a small chance of having another day if the RB chooses correctly and scum doesn't RB them.

2. RR is scum - Well the RB is probably better as an IC anyway, because the chance of them actually stopping the kill is pretty low (and RR might even be the scum roleblocker).  They wouldn't necessarily be an IC, but at least it would lock them into a claim with Awaclus if they are both scum.  Either way, I don't really see the downside in this case.

And with either of the scenarios, the chance that the RB guesses correctly is really low.  It would be different if they were a cop or something, but they have to correctly guess the killer without the scum roleblocker correctly guessing them.  That is just super low odds.

He does it twice.  Bolded.

[gkrieg13]

A few RB claims scenarios:

--no counter, basically IC.
--scum counter, 1 v 1

Who does scum NK?  RB kill makes another RB, so guaranteed 2 blocks.  Awaclus kill neutralizes UB, but guaranteed 2 blocks.

Except, scum has at least 1-shot RB.

And I just realized gkrieg assumes full RB in his post.  Seems like a scumslip.

Maybe I'm confused with the setup?  How can it not be full RB?

[ashersky]

Even if all claims so far are true, that's only BBC or BBE.  3T is 1-shot RB.

[gkrieg13]

Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3

Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.

[ashersky]

I'm wrong, it's strongman that is 1-shot. 

[gkrieg13]

Even if all claims so far are true, that's only BBC or BBE.  3T is 1-shot RB.

No it's not?

PPE: Ok, I thought I was crazy for a second

[ashersky]

I'm wrong, it's strongman that is 1-shot.

Sorry gkrieg.  RB is always full.

[ashersky]

So RB claim neuters the RB since scum can block the blocker.

Is that worth it?  Assuming we are lynching correctly today, I see use in waiting.

[ashersky]

And I'm starting to feel like TWM is the best Lynch today...

[ashersky]

Also, iPad died mid post.

[gkrieg13]

For Awaclus's claim to not be false, there needs to be both a scum RB and a town RB.

I had actually forgotten that we still have a UB alive, which makes the RB claiming even better.

PPE: Why TWM instead of RR?  There isn't anything that points to TWM's claim not being true is there?

[gkrieg13]

So RB claim neuters the RB since scum can block the blocker.

Is that worth it?  Assuming we are lynching correctly today, I see use in waiting.

I mean, assuming RR is scum, there is a 33% chance that he is the RB, and if he flips goon, we know that both Awaclus and the claimed RB are lying.  So that is a point toward claiming.

The ONLY reason I can think of for not wanting the RB to claim, is if we don't lynch correctly today.  (which in case anyone wasn't aware, probably requires all town to lynch the scum(probably just because scum could bus)).  Then the RB has a very small chance of blocking the killer and not being blocked himself. 

In the event that the scum RB blocks the town RB, does the town RB still get to block someone?  What is the resolution order?

[ashersky]

For Awaclus's claim to not be false, there needs to be both a scum RB and a town RB.

I had actually forgotten that we still have a UB alive, which makes the RB claiming even better.

PPE: Why TWM instead of RR?  There isn't anything that points to TWM's claim not being true is there?

There's nothing that points to it being true, either.  1-Shot Cop is the go-to fake claim.  There is no tracking in the game, it has the most iterations (C and E), etc.

There's been scumminess.  If RR is town, he's 100% the patsy scum wants due to his terrible play on D2.

It is mylo after all.

[ashersky]

Goon flip doesn't mean full RB is lying; BTTTT is possible if TWM and Awaclus are lying.

[ashersky]

What's the wagon at?  If he was town, I have to think scum could have hammered out for the win.

[ashersky]

And I guess not technically mylo since a successful block earns another day.  There's a reason for the RB not to claim.

[gkrieg13]

For Awaclus's claim to not be false, there needs to be both a scum RB and a town RB.

I had actually forgotten that we still have a UB alive, which makes the RB claiming even better.

PPE: Why TWM instead of RR?  There isn't anything that points to TWM's claim not being true is there?

There's nothing that points to it being true, either.  1-Shot Cop is the go-to fake claim.  There is no tracking in the game, it has the most iterations (C and E), etc.

There's been scumminess.  If RR is town, he's 100% the patsy scum wants due to his terrible play on D2.

It is mylo after all.

Yes, but I don't think TWM had a very big incentive to fake-claim.  I'll look back at his D2, to see if there was anything that makes me not believe his claim (like him pressuring me etc.).  I get it as a good fakeclaim when you are about to go down, but I don't really get it when we are at MYLO and are really just about to lynch RR.  Like why not leave the fakeclaim open for RR to claim?

[Roadrunner7671]

So now you're calling me a patsy?

[gkrieg13]

Goon flip doesn't mean full RB is lying; BTTTT is possible if TWM and Awaclus are lying.

True, but I guess that is just because I believe TWM atm.

What's the wagon at?  If he was town, I have to think scum could have hammered out for the win.

This is another good point.  RR was at L-1 for a lot of the day.  I think scum hammering at this point would assure them the win, because the chance of them not being able to RB the RB, and that the RB guesses correctly is pretty low.  Not only that, but if they did hammer, we would only know that one person is scum, which isn't really that much information.

[ashersky]

For Awaclus's claim to not be false, there needs to be both a scum RB and a town RB.

I had actually forgotten that we still have a UB alive, which makes the RB claiming even better.

PPE: Why TWM instead of RR?  There isn't anything that points to TWM's claim not being true is there?

There's nothing that points to it being true, either.  1-Shot Cop is the go-to fake claim.  There is no tracking in the game, it has the most iterations (C and E), etc.

There's been scumminess.  If RR is town, he's 100% the patsy scum wants due to his terrible play on D2.

It is mylo after all.

Yes, but I don't think TWM had a very big incentive to fake-claim.  I'll look back at his D2, to see if there was anything that makes me not believe his claim (like him pressuring me etc.).  I get it as a good fakeclaim when you are about to go down, but I don't really get it when we are at MYLO and are really just about to lynch RR.  Like why not leave the fakeclaim open for RR to claim?

If RR is town, maybe, and you are partners with Wine.  I mean, there are reasons.  I had a reaction to the claim when it happened if you want to look back.

[ashersky]

Goon flip doesn't mean full RB is lying; BTTTT is possible if TWM and Awaclus are lying.

True, but I guess that is just because I believe TWM atm.

What's the wagon at?  If he was town, I have to think scum could have hammered out for the win.

This is another good point.  RR was at L-1 for a lot of the day.  I think scum hammering at this point would assure them the win, because the chance of them not being able to RB the RB, and that the RB guesses correctly is pretty low.  Not only that, but if they did hammer, we would only know that one person is scum, which isn't really that much information.

Did RR reach L-1?  I thought he's been stuck at L-2.

Many reasons for them to auickhammer town.  As you say, doesn't out the whole team, they can guess at the RB based on PoE, or if Awa was lying they would be so worried about anything.

[ashersky]

Why was Calamitas the N1 kill?  Did anyone review his reads?

[gkrieg13]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Ugh, my right-click doesn't work on f.ds right now, which means I need to quote posts and respond to them individually.

This post doesn't seem like TWM has copped me and gotten a positive result.

[gkrieg13]

He does do a fair bit of defending me on D2.  Almost at every opportunity, where he isn't talking about Jake or RR.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Ugh, my right-click doesn't work on f.ds right now, which means I need to quote posts and respond to them individually.

This post doesn't seem like TWM has copped me and gotten a positive result.

Oh jeez. That is like my one attempt to kinda breadcrumb that I had investigated you (you could be mafia because of the godfather, but I highly doubt it)

[gkrieg13]

Good examples of this are (just doing #s, because rereads without a right-click are super awful):
1191
985
1262 (not a good example, he says that everyone is murky other than 4 people)
1294 (says I'm townier that EFHW)
1314

1618 (this one is not defending me, just seems like it would come from the perspective of a 1-shot cop.  Especially a newbie!PR.)

[gkrieg13]

I guess the fact that mafia has a godfather partially explains why some of his posts still have a small amount of ambiguity toward me.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

1262 (not a good example, he says that everyone is murky other than 4 people)

I was only doing rereads of people that I wasn't nearly as sure about: so faust, EFHW, ashersky and mcmcsalot. I thought about doing a reread on you, but at that point it didn't seem worthwhile.

1618 (this one is not defending me, just seems like it would come from the perspective of a 1-shot cop.  Especially a newbie!PR.)

I don't understand what you mean here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I guess the fact that mafia has a godfather partially explains why some of his posts still have a small amount of ambiguity toward me.

That and I was trying to not be too obvious. I don't know. I wasn't really sure what to do, I thought about claiming Day2 and was worried about revealing too much information to mafia if I claimed or made it obvious that I had investigated you. So maybe I should have been more obvious?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

For Awaclus's claim to not be false, there needs to be both a scum RB and a town RB.

I had actually forgotten that we still have a UB alive, which makes the RB claiming even better.

PPE: Why TWM instead of RR?  There isn't anything that points to TWM's claim not being true is there?

There's nothing that points to it being true, either.  1-Shot Cop is the go-to fake claim.  There is no tracking in the game, it has the most iterations (C and E), etc.

There's been scumminess.  If RR is town, he's 100% the patsy scum wants due to his terrible play on D2.

It is mylo after all.

This isn't a reason to lynch me, which I haven't really ever gotten you to answer. But instead talking about why we shouldn't lynch RR.

[EFHW]

And I'm starting to feel like TWM is the best Lynch today...

The only scummy thing I see against TWM is that his accusations against RR of lying and manipulating kind of didn't make sense.  First he said it was on purpose, then he said it wasn't RR's initial intention, but by not posting he reneged on his promise which is lying, and makes the promise manipulative.  But people make promises and then find out it's harder than they expected without it being lying. And if it wasn't his initial intention then he wasn't lying, he was being unrealistic.  Maybe he was scum and posting was too hard for that reason, but the lying/manipulation thing doesn't work for me. It's possible scum!TWM was playing up his disgust with RR

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I'm starting to feel like TWM is the best Lynch today...

The only scummy thing I see against TWM is that his accusations against RR of lying and manipulating kind of didn't make sense.  First he said it was on purpose, then he said it wasn't RR's initial intention, but by not posting he reneged on his promise which is lying, and makes the promise manipulative.  But people make promises and then find out it's harder than they expected without it being lying. And if it wasn't his initial intention then he wasn't lying, he was being unrealistic.  Maybe he was scum and posting was too hard for that reason, but the lying/manipulation thing doesn't work for me. It's possible scum!TWM was playing up his disgust with RR

I think I reacted the way I did, and I still think my narrative is legitimate by the way, because RR specifically mentioned me by name in his initial apology. I didn't ask him to do that but he did anyways and I appreciated that and bought into it. And then when he didn't do anything I felt that was worse than when he initially didn't do anything as he had made a personal commitment to me.

I'll admit the specific words of lying and manipulating were probably a somewhat harsh. I think I might have borrowed them from someone else without really thinking the exact meaning, but would have to go back and check to see.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

Well, he is currently lurking. He was already scummy before this started. Also he made a big post about how he will try to play better when he was under pressure and then didn't follow up. So it's pretty likely that that post was just AtE and manipulation. Town!RR would feel compelled to actually do something about this. So even his absence now, is not mere "lurking", but alignment-indicative.

Ah. This was the post from faust that got me thinking along the terms of manipulation.

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.5

Roadrunner7671 (3): gkrieg13, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (5): Awaclus, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671, EFHW

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time. this is in 18 hours

[EFHW]

I'd like to lynch mcmc or gkrieg today.

I'm sorry to back out of the RR lynch, but I believe that he would have fakeclaimed roleblocker as scum.

[EFHW]

And I'm starting to feel like TWM is the best Lynch today...

The only scummy thing I see against TWM is that his accusations against RR of lying and manipulating kind of didn't make sense.  First he said it was on purpose, then he said it wasn't RR's initial intention, but by not posting he reneged on his promise which is lying, and makes the promise manipulative.  But people make promises and then find out it's harder than they expected without it being lying. And if it wasn't his initial intention then he wasn't lying, he was being unrealistic.  Maybe he was scum and posting was too hard for that reason, but the lying/manipulation thing doesn't work for me. It's possible scum!TWM was playing up his disgust with RR

I think I reacted the way I did, and I still think my narrative is legitimate by the way, because RR specifically mentioned me by name in his initial apology. I didn't ask him to do that but he did anyways and I appreciated that and bought into it. And then when he didn't do anything I felt that was worse than when he initially didn't do anything as he had made a personal commitment to me.

I'll admit the specific words of lying and manipulating were probably a somewhat harsh. I think I might have borrowed them from someone else without really thinking the exact meaning, but would have to go back and check to see.

I didn't remember he named you specifically. Makes more sense that you would be annoyed then.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'd like to lynch gkrieg today.

I don't normally use emojis, but I think this qualifies: 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

{snipped} So I'm sorry to everyone for playing badly, and I'm particularly sorry to TWM for making a garbage first impression. I can't promise any super amazing cases, but I think it's safe for me to promise to start playing better. Thanks for putting up with my crap up until now.

[EFHW]

I'd like to lynch gkrieg today.

I don't normally use emojis, but I think this qualifies: 

Awaclus, ashersky and gkrieg can't all be town. I think you are town, and feel that ashersky and Awaclus probably are as well, so gkrieg must be godfather. This probably only works from my perspective, but that's what I have to work with!

You omitted that I also wanted to lynch mcmc.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'd like to lynch gkrieg today.

I don't normally use emojis, but I think this qualifies: 

Awaclus, ashersky and gkrieg can't all be town. I think you are town, and feel that ashersky and Awaclus probably are as well, so gkrieg must be godfather. This probably only works from my perspective, but that's what I have to work with!

You omitted that I also wanted to lynch mcmc.

mcmc is a vastly better lynch option that gkrieg just from my result alone so it didn't warrant an emoji.

[EFHW]

I'd like to lynch gkrieg today.

I don't normally use emojis, but I think this qualifies: 

Awaclus, ashersky and gkrieg can't all be town. I think you are town, and feel that ashersky and Awaclus probably are as well, so gkrieg must be godfather. This probably only works from my perspective, but that's what I have to work with!

You omitted that I also wanted to lynch mcmc.

mcmc is a vastly better lynch option that gkrieg just from my result alone so it didn't warrant an emoji.

sure, I just didn't want that part to be forgotten because your quote didn't reflect it.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think it's pretty likely that both TWM and gkrieg are scum, so I'd be happy lynching either. I guess gkrieg has a higher chance of being scum because of Godfather nonsense, but like I said, they're both fine in my book.

[gkrieg13]

I think it's pretty likely that both TWM and gkrieg are scum, so I'd be happy lynching either. I guess gkrieg has a higher chance of being scum because of Godfather nonsense, but like I said, they're both fine in my book.

How does that give me a higher likelihood of being scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

I think it's pretty likely that both TWM and gkrieg are scum, so I'd be happy lynching either. I guess gkrieg has a higher chance of being scum because of Godfather nonsense, but like I said, they're both fine in my book.

How does that give me a higher likelihood of being scum?

There's the possibility that TWM is town and investigated you, got a town result, but you were the Godfather.

But, based on roles, there's no possibility where TWM is scum and you are town.

Reading that it doesn't make much sense. Here:

TWM is one of two things: Town who copped you or scum who pretended to cop you.

Gkrieg is one of three things: Town who was copped by TWM, scum who wasn't copped by TWM (because TWM is gkrieg's partner) or scum who was copped but is a Godfather.

[mcmcsalot]

I think it's possible gkrieg/twm/awaclus are scum together as well as gkrieg/twm/rr and gkrieg/twm/efhw so I would lynch gkrieg or twm.

[gkrieg13]

I think it's pretty likely that both TWM and gkrieg are scum, so I'd be happy lynching either. I guess gkrieg has a higher chance of being scum because of Godfather nonsense, but like I said, they're both fine in my book.

How does that give me a higher likelihood of being scum?

There's the possibility that TWM is town and investigated you, got a town result, but you were the Godfather.

But, based on roles, there's no possibility where TWM is scum and you are town.

Reading that it doesn't make much sense. Here:

TWM is one of two things: Town who copped you or scum who pretended to cop you.

Gkrieg is one of three things: Town who was copped by TWM, scum who wasn't copped by TWM (because TWM is gkrieg's partner) or scum who was copped but is a Godfather.

But those things don't have equal likelihoods.

[gkrieg13]

And he could totally be a scum!cop (fake) and claim me as a valid copping target when I'm town.

[gkrieg13]

I think it's possible gkrieg/twm/awaclus are scum together as well as gkrieg/twm/rr and gkrieg/twm/efhw so I would lynch gkrieg or twm.

But shouldn't you have to lynch TWM first?  Like why do you believe I'm scum?  And how could I possibly have RR or EFHW as partners?

[gkrieg13]

Also what do all of the people who don't want to lynch RR say about the fact that he was at L-1 for a reasonably long time without a lynch?

[gkrieg13]

I haven't been able to catch up at all. Sorry guys. Busy weekend, now a busy work week and now sick.

I think I am still inclined to vote for RR. I worry that I am just allowing myself to go along with the crowd, but he hasn't done anything to make me feel differently about him (aside from him obviously not being partners with Jake).

I think there is a good narrative for RR being scum:

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Well I don't think you purposely lied and manipulated at the time of writing the post. But rather, as you went back and tried to contributed you realized it was harder to live up to that expectation and ended up lying and manipulating after the fact.

Add in his reaction to my investigation on gkrieg and I think I am willing at this point to vote for him.

Vote: RR

This is an announced L-1 with four votes: (gkrieg, EFHW, ash and myself)

He probably would have. unvote Sorry, but I need to hear the roleblocker claim.

It was almost 24 hours, with everyone not voting for RR showing up in between

[mcmcsalot]

Also what do all of the people who don't want to lynch RR say about the fact that he was at L-1 for a reasonably long time without a lynch?

Because this was the wagon.

Vote Count 3.4

Roadrunner7671 (4): gkrieg13, EFHW, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time. this is in about two days

And I think you, EFHW, and TWM could be mafia.

Vote Count Final

Robz888 (7): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus, EFHW, Calamitas, faust
Awaclus (2): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): mcmcsalot
Roadrunner7671 (1): Robz888

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Day 1 Lynch, all three of you are on wagon

Day 2 Final Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22


With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 Lynch, TWM and EFHW are on wagon and gkrieg could buss because rr is the other option.

[gkrieg13]

Which means either that the scum team is some permutation (I think that is the right one) of ash/me/TWM/EFHW, or that RR is scum, or the third option, scum didn't want to hammer because it would out one of them, and they thought that the chance of the town!RB roleblocking the killer while their RB missed was too high to out one of them.

[gkrieg13]

Also what do all of the people who don't want to lynch RR say about the fact that he was at L-1 for a reasonably long time without a lynch?

Because this was the wagon.

Vote Count 3.4

Roadrunner7671 (4): gkrieg13, EFHW, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time. this is in about two days

And I think you, EFHW, and TWM could be mafia.

Vote Count Final

Robz888 (7): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus, EFHW, Calamitas, faust
Awaclus (2): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): mcmcsalot
Roadrunner7671 (1): Robz888

Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Day 1 Lynch, all three of you are on wagon

Day 2 Final Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22


With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 Lynch, TWM and EFHW are on wagon and gkrieg could buss because rr is the other option.

Doesn't that incriminate ash and me equally?

[gkrieg13]

Oh never mind, I finally get what you are saying.

[gkrieg13]

But can you really say, with a straight face, that me and EFHW are on the same team?

I mean she has made about a million cases on me, and I have also gotten wagons going on her.

[Roadrunner7671]

EFHW can't be scum. The way she got off my wagon today is something scum wouldn't do. Cause I was at L-1 with intent to hammer. Scum EFHW should not have unvoted.

[EFHW]

Let's try vote: mcmc

[Awaclus]

Vote: mcmc is pretty good.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't know. That seems really spontaneous. Why would you do that out of the blue EFHW? And why would you follow Awaclus?

[gkrieg13]

Vote: mcmc is pretty good.

Do you want to give a reason for voting mcmc over RR?

[EFHW]

I don't know. That seems really spontaneous. Why would you do that out of the blue EFHW? And why would you follow Awaclus?

It's not really out of the blue.  I've already mentioned him more than once as a likely scum.

[Awaclus]

Vote: mcmc is pretty good.

Do you want to give a reason for voting mcmc over RR?

I think he's more likely to be scum.

[ashersky]

Re-reading Day 1.

Pages 1-5: Mostly crap.  There's some pronoun stuff, a lot of nickname stuff.  faust votes gkrieg early, the only actual vote I notice.  Got some scum vibes from TWM based on his questions about how to play.

Page 6: This is the Joseph hits L2 page.  Jake is scummy here.  Turns out he was just Jake.

Pages 7-9: More Joseph stuff, EFHW subs in for McGarg, who had not made an impression up to that point.  Jake dominates these pages, which hurts the game given he turned out town and makes this re-read crappy.

****Interjection: I'm doing this re-read with the N1 kill in mind, and I'm seeing NOTHING so far from Calamitas at all.  More pages to go, though.****

Pages 10-13: Joseph keeps annoying everyone here, although at least he's active.  He's at L-1 by the end of the 13th page.  I notice that up to now, TWM is doing a lot of IIOA -- a scum trait.  He asks a lot of questions and makes observations.  He does start to give an opinion (Joseph is scummy) near the L-1 time.  RR doesn't post much here.  Nor does anyone else alive, actually.

Page 14: Joseph's UB claim, and mostly good reactions.  RR's #340 is strong and sensible.  It shows he's thought about how claims work.  It also goes along with his self-explanatory claim here.

****Intermission.****

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.3

Joseph2302 (6): Awaclus, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, faust, The_Wine_Merchant
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
faust (1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (4): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.


quoting games that are finished is allowed.

Still re-reading, but this vote count stands out.  Of the six on Joseph, three are confirmed town now.  One is claimed Awaclus, then you have mcmc and TWM.

There seems to me to have been plenty of time to hammer as scum here.  Joseph sat at L-1 for awhile.  Was there some fear of seeming scummy for an early day end?  Dunno, but you had some good support for it in Robz, for example.

RR was off and was adamantly not lynching Joseph.  Gkrieg and EFHW and the guy I replaced are also off wagon and had the opportunity to lynch a lot.  Plus dead Calamitas.

I think this raises the scum bar on mcmc and TWM (and Awa some), and lowers it on gkrieg and EFHW for me.

[ashersky]

Continuing...

Page 15:  #362 from TWM is the hedgiest of all hedges on the UB claim, and that's super scummy.

Page 16:  Calamitas shows up with some super towny stuff...I had him as a scum read at the end of the day for being so absent but I guess he was around earlier.  Jake also has his terribad idea of lynching Joseph on D2.

Pages 17-19:  Mostly this is dominated by the Robz wagon growing and the Awaclus soft-claim.  To be honest, I did not see a softclaim of UB by Awaclus while reading.  Robz paints one into the lines there, which didn't help him survive D1.  He thinks Awa/gkrieg are scummy at this point.

Page 20: Important thing I note here is a definitely separation between EFHW and gkrieg13.  They could both be town, but they cannot both be scum, in my opinion.  Also, Jake makes another blunder on this page.

Page 21: faust returns, sticks to gkrieg as scum.  He and Robz are probably screaming for us to vote gkrieg in the speccy.  This is also when you all find out IDPTG is being replaced, and Jake proposes his infamous Big 3 plan.

Page 22: arrival of this ashersky character -- seems like a boss dude.  Joseph has a good catch up post here that surmises that everyone wants to lynch gkrieg, which is generally a town tell.  This page is also full of the mcmc posts that gave me a strong town read on him when I entered the game, and why I haven't been considering him as much for scum.

Pages 23-24: more back and forth on the Big 3 plan, plus a case on gkrieg by faust that Robz likes.  I think everyone forgot it.

*****intermission, this day is long*****

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.6

Roadrunner7671 (3): gkrieg13, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant
mcmcsalot (2): EFHW, Awaclus

Not voting (3): Joseph2302, mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends January 25th at 1:00 pm forum time. this is in 3 hours

[gkrieg13]

Woah!  Deadline snuck up fast!

Look guys, RR would've been hammered if he weren't scum!

[gkrieg13]

Like ash said, EFHW and I certainly can't be on the same team, which means mcmcsalot needs to rethink his analysis.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

[gkrieg13]

No lynch isn't awful here, but I'm sad that we haven't gotten a RB to claim.  That probably means that I've been wrong about EFHW this whole game...  And the team is really RR/mcmc/Awaclus, and Awaclus is just bussing right now.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

From my perspective, Jake got lynched because he was ruining the game. People who felt like they could do either would pick him.  And it's not like there was anything convincing in the RR cases.

Also, we had 7 town and 3 scum.  You and ash didn't come by, so who knows what combination of scum and town we had.  Saying the entire scumteam was on Jake's wagon is fanciful and not based on facts because we don't know enough.

[EFHW]

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

You assume RR is scum here.  What if they are both town?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

You assume RR is scum here.  What if they are both town?

Then why do all the switching and scrambling?

Also, why would RR have sat today for so long at L-1 without a hammer?  THAT WOULD'VE WON THE GAME for scum.  Everyone that could've hammered came in a didn't hammer, so either he is scum, or the entire team was already voting for him.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

From my perspective, Jake got lynched because he was ruining the game. People who felt like they could do either would pick him.  And it's not like there was anything convincing in the RR cases.

Also, we had 7 town and 3 scum.  You and ash didn't come by, so who knows what combination of scum and town we had.  Saying the entire scumteam was on Jake's wagon is fanciful and not based on facts because we don't know enough.

Ok I'm townreading ash right now, and I said how it is possible that the entire scum team isn't on Jake at that point.  That is if ash or mcmcsalot is scum, and I do think that mcmcsalot could be scum, but I would say that here you took out one sentence I said, but didn't take out the next sentence that qualifies it.

[Joseph2302]

Well crap. I'm busy until 1pm forum time.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

I was going back and forth. Maybe I should have just stuck on one, and if so I'll take responsibility for that, but the reason I ended up on Jake in the end was because Awaclus and EFHW flat out refused to vote for RR. RR obviously wasn't going to go to his own wagon. mcmcsalot seemed be meh in regard to both and wanted faust for some reason and I think he settled on Jake once it became apparent there wasn't going to be a RR or faust lynch because EFHW and Awaclus wouldn't move.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: RR . L-1 again

PPE:1

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

I don't think he was. And that certainly isn't why I claimed when I did.

[Joseph2302]

Woah!  Deadline snuck up fast!

Look guys, RR would've been hammered if he weren't scum!

I tend to agree with this. Looks a better lynch than mcmc. And I can't work out which of gkrieg and EFHW is the bad one

PPE:1

[gkrieg13]

With Joseph voting for RR and not going to be around at deadline, RR HAS to be the lynch.

There is no other choice that can result in a scum lynch without bussing.

[Joseph2302]

My phone is about to die, so I'll have no access until after deadline.
Sorry

[Joseph2302]

With Joseph voting for RR and not going to be around at deadline, RR HAS to be the lynch.

There is no other choice that can result in a scum lynch without bussing.

Agreed

[mcmcsalot]

Like ash said, EFHW and I certainly can't be on the same team, which means mcmcsalot needs to rethink his analysis.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

As he says you and EFHW can't be scum because of page 20 which I don't think is crazy indicative of you two not being scum together. But I agree based on current wagons it's highly unlikely.

Right now either rr has to be scum or gkrieg/twm/ash are scum. I keep going back to how yesterday ended and it actually makes a lot more sense from everyone if both wagons that were possible to lynch were on town. Scum has no reason to make a good case one way or the other plus our relatively low active town leads to a rushed lynch and sets up the next days lynch as well. In the night the by far most active townie in faust is killed and today we get most of our scumhunting cut out by people pushing for claims, and then when it seemed like we agreed not to claim and not to no lynch twm comes out clearing gkrieg and dropping our lynch pool dramatically.

[gkrieg13]

Like ash said, EFHW and I certainly can't be on the same team, which means mcmcsalot needs to rethink his analysis.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

As he says you and EFHW can't be scum because of page 20 which I don't think is crazy indicative of you two not being scum together. But I agree based on current wagons it's highly unlikely.

Right now either rr has to be scum or gkrieg/twm/ash are scum. I keep going back to how yesterday ended and it actually makes a lot more sense from everyone if both wagons that were possible to lynch were on town. Scum has no reason to make a good case one way or the other plus our relatively low active town leads to a rushed lynch and sets up the next days lynch as well. In the night the by far most active townie in faust is killed and today we get most of our scumhunting cut out by people pushing for claims, and then when it seemed like we agreed not to claim and not to no lynch twm comes out clearing gkrieg and dropping our lynch pool dramatically.

What do you think he would've done as town and as scum?  What is the narrative for him claiming when he did as town/scum?

[EFHW]

Woah!  Deadline snuck up fast!

Look guys, RR would've been hammered if he weren't scum!

I tend to agree with this. Looks a better lynch than mcmc. And I can't work out which of gkrieg and EFHW is the bad one

PPE:1

RR's been at L-2 all this time.  I don't know how many scum teams would feel confident they could coordinate a quicklynch.  I tried it once, and it only barely worked out and was probably foolhardy of me.

If we mislynch here the game rides on the RB (assuming he exists!) successfully blocking the nk, which will be very difficult.

We always lynch RR, because he is scummy as town, and ~90% of the time he is town.

PPE: 2

[EFHW]

With Joseph voting for RR and not going to be around at deadline, RR HAS to be the lynch.

There is no other choice that can result in a scum lynch without bussing.

Agreed

I'd rather no lynch.  That buys us another day.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we should probably do no claiming unless someone has a result of some kind to share which would be valuable as we are in mylo.

You were the one who said someone with a result should claim. So I did one day later.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

mcmc trying to paint my giving out a result when I did as scummy when it is exactly what he wanted me to do is scummy.

[EFHW]

That is if ash or mcmcsalot is scum, and I do think that mcmcsalot could be scum, but I would say that here you took out one sentence I said, but didn't take out the next sentence that qualifies it.

You're right. For some reason I am very provoked by you in this game.  Sorry about the misrepresentation.

[Awaclus]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

[Joseph2302]

With Joseph voting for RR and not going to be around at deadline, RR HAS to be the lynch.

There is no other choice that can result in a scum lynch without bussing.

Agreed

I'd rather no lynch.  That buys us another day.

Really?
We no lynch, I die, then what?

PPE:2

[mcmcsalot]

I think we should probably do no claiming unless someone has a result of some kind to share which would be valuable as we are in mylo.

You were the one who said someone with a result should claim. So I did one day later.

Except a one-shot cop claim is super super easily claimed by scum, and your result was town which is the safe result for scum to claim and it doesn't exactly qualify as "valuable" in fact you also if you are town basically said "hey scum dont worry I'm a vt now so I can't hurt you at night and I didn't catch anyone". It's a pretty unhelpful claim.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

Who do you think his partners would be?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we should probably do no claiming unless someone has a result of some kind to share which would be valuable as we are in mylo.

You were the one who said someone with a result should claim. So I did one day later.

Except a one-shot cop claim is super super easily claimed by scum, and your result was town which is the safe result for scum to claim and it doesn't exactly qualify as "valuable" in fact you also if you are town basically said "hey scum dont worry I'm a vt now so I can't hurt you at night and I didn't catch anyone". It's a pretty unhelpful claim.

What other kind of result would there have been at this point in the game?

There aren't any other investigation roles out there. And anyone that would have caught scum would have obviously have claimed by that point.

So basically you are saying that you said you wanted people to give results, but didn't actually want those results to be out there?

[EFHW]

With Joseph voting for RR and not going to be around at deadline, RR HAS to be the lynch.

There is no other choice that can result in a scum lynch without bussing.

Agreed

I'd rather no lynch.  That buys us another day.

Really?
We no lynch, I die, then what?

PPE:2

Then we have more than 2 hours to figure this out. This isn't an "any lynch is better than no lynch" situation.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

Who do you think his partners would be?

EFHW would be my first guess. The second one, I am not as sure about. But maybe you? Maybe Awaclus?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Speaking of RR. Anyone notice that he is not here for deadline and once again doesn't have his vote anywhere?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

Who do you think his partners would be?

EFHW would be my first guess. The second one, I am not as sure about. But maybe you? Maybe Awaclus?

Oops. I thought you were asking me this question, but my answer is still valid.

[EFHW]

You know what, for RR to definitely be scum for me, ashersky, Awaclus and TWM need to be town. And I do have townreads on each of them.  I didn't at the start of the day, but things have evolved. Hearing from the roleblocker would have made this much easier.  But I'll take the chance and hammer if needed. at 12.

[Awaclus]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

Who do you think his partners would be?

I don't see how it's beneficial for town if I answer that question.

[mcmcsalot]

You know what, for RR to definitely be scum for me, ashersky, Awaclus and TWM need to be town. And I do have townreads on each of them.  I didn't at the start of the day, but things have evolved. Hearing from the roleblocker would have made this much easier.  But I'll take the chance and hammer if needed. at 12.

So you think me/gkrieg/rr are scum? Even with twm's copping of gkrieg making that impossible?

[mcmcsalot]

I'm tentatively willing to hammer RR.

Who do you think his partners would be?

I don't see how it's beneficial for town if I answer that question.

Because unless you think it's me and EFHW why would one scum be bussing his partner? I think it's possible ash/gkrieg/twm is the scum team.

[Roadrunner7671]

Speaking of RR. Anyone notice that he is not here for deadline and once again doesn't have his vote anywhere?

I have school!

[Awaclus]

Because unless you think it's me and EFHW why would one scum be bussing his partner? I think it's possible ash/gkrieg/twm is the scum team.

For the town cred.

[Awaclus]

Speaking of RR. Anyone notice that he is not here for deadline and once again doesn't have his vote anywhere?

I have school!

I have school too, I just don't attend a lot.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Speaking of RR. Anyone notice that he is not here for deadline and once again doesn't have his vote anywhere?

I have school!

That is fair, and I don't begrudge that you can't be here right now because of that. But did you have school last night when you could have put your vote someone? Or the day before? Or the day before that? Or over the weekend?

You get my drift?

[Roadrunner7671]

I am happy to vote for you or gkrieg. I've made that clear. Sorry for tryong to prevent a quick hammer uf you or gkieg are in fact town

Sorry for typos

[Joseph2302]

Speaking of RR. Anyone notice that he is not here for deadline and once again doesn't have his vote anywhere?

I have school!

That is fair, and I don't begrudge that you can't be here right now because of that. But did you have school last night when you could have put your vote someone? Or the day before? Or the day before that? Or over the weekend?

You get my drift?

Agreed. If RR is town, he's been an unhelpful town player.
If I'm honest, so have I, but I'm good.

I am happy to vote for you or gkrieg. I've made that clear. Sorry for tryong to prevent a quick hammer uf you or gkieg are in fact town

Sorry for typos

Just vote someone then....

[Roadrunner7671]

"But I'm good." What does that mean?

[mcmcsalot]

I am happy to vote for you or gkrieg. I've made that clear. Sorry for tryong to prevent a quick hammer uf you or gkieg are in fact town

Sorry for typos

Twm is the better choice of the two of those because of the claim. I would actually prefer vote: twm

[Joseph2302]

"But I'm good." What does that mean?

Means that no-one is going to vote me

[ashersky]

We don't have the numbers to switch to anyone, really.

RR never getting hammered and being town requires all there scum on his wagon already or really lazy/bad/absent scum.

I mean, if Awaclus was lying AND RR was town, he'd just hammer here.  There's plenty of cover for it and the chance of the Town RB being successful is not super high.  And even if the Town RB is successful, town's in bad shape.

I don't have the strongest scum read on RR (as compared to other players), but POE is Occam's razor here.

[ashersky]

I think scum likes a no lynch better than a partner lynch.  That makes EFHW and mcmc slightly scummier.

[Joseph2302]

Gotta go RR though

[mcmcsalot]

"But I'm good." What does that mean?

Means that no-one is going to vote me

Joseph do you have anything to say about my theory around twm's claim and why it is way likelier to come from scum and how it came just as we may have begun scumhunting instead of discussing rr and his "unhelpfulness" the same way jake was pushed yesterday and how much of this game has been us lynching people for being unhelpful. I think twm's claim is objectively something scum does waaay more often then town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am happy to vote for you or gkrieg. I've made that clear. Sorry for tryong to prevent a quick hammer uf you or gkieg are in fact town

Sorry for typos

good thing you actually voted then, amirite?

[Awaclus]

So, there's like 1 hour left. I think I'll just vote: RR.

[ashersky]

"But I'm good." What does that mean?

Means that no-one is going to vote me

Joseph do you have anything to say about my theory around twm's claim and why it is way likelier to come from scum and how it came just as we may have begun scumhunting instead of discussing rr and his "unhelpfulness" the same way jake was pushed yesterday and how much of this game has been us lynching people for being unhelpful. I think twm's claim is objectively something scum does waaay more often then town.

I've been with you all the way on TWM's claim more likely coming from scum.  I've also townread you most of the game.

You have to know that there aren't enough votes for TWM today.  So you have to be CONVINCED that RR is town to prefer no lynch.

For me, I have a pool of players that I am fairly certain include the scum team.  In almost all iterations, RR is there.

[ashersky]

If the scums won, please let us know.

[mcmcsalot]

"But I'm good." What does that mean?

Means that no-one is going to vote me

Joseph do you have anything to say about my theory around twm's claim and why it is way likelier to come from scum and how it came just as we may have begun scumhunting instead of discussing rr and his "unhelpfulness" the same way jake was pushed yesterday and how much of this game has been us lynching people for being unhelpful. I think twm's claim is objectively something scum does waaay more often then town.

I've been with you all the way on TWM's claim more likely coming from scum.  I've also townread you most of the game.

You have to know that there aren't enough votes for TWM today.  So you have to be CONVINCED that RR is town to prefer no lynch.

For me, I have a pool of players that I am fairly certain include the scum team.  In almost all iterations, RR is there.

I definitely don't prefer no lynch, never said so.

[Awaclus]

If the scums won, please let us know.

At least I'm not scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not dead, am I?

[ashersky]

Final wagon is gkrieg, me, TWM, EFHW, Awaclus

I think it is possible that went through with little bussing.

[Joseph2302]

So, there's like 1 hour left. I think I'll just vote: RR.

That's the hammer?

[Joseph2302]

Final wagon is gkrieg, me, TWM, EFHW, Awaclus

I think it is possible that went through with little bussing.

Agreed

[ashersky]

I'm not dead, am I?

You were L-2 and then Joseph and Awa voted.

[mcmcsalot]

If the scums won, please let us know.

Are you being mean?

[ashersky]

Final wagon is gkrieg, me, TWM, EFHW, Awaclus

I think it is possible that went through with little bussing.

Agreed

I messed up.  EFHW didn't vote, you did.

Gkrieg, me, TWM, Joseph, Awaclus.  I like that wagon with one scum max.

[Awaclus]

So, there's like 1 hour left. I think I'll just vote: RR.

That's the hammer?

At least I think it was.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah I just checked that

[Joseph2302]

I'm not dead, am I?

Yes

[Joseph2302]

Claim RR!

[Awaclus]

I'm not dead, am I?

Not yet, but you're going to be.

[Roadrunner7671]

Claim RR!

School time! Gg

[ashersky]

If the scums won, please let us know.

Are you being mean?

No, I'm town.

[ashersky]

Claim RR!

School time! Gg

I'll take that to mean you are scum?

[Joseph2302]

Claim RR!

School time! Gg

I'll take that to mean you are scum?

Think so

[EFHW]

Claim RR!

School time! Gg

!!

[EFHW]

You know what, for RR to definitely be scum for me, ashersky, Awaclus and TWM need to be town. And I do have townreads on each of them.  I didn't at the start of the day, but things have evolved. Hearing from the roleblocker would have made this much easier.  But I'll take the chance and hammer if needed. at 12.

So you think me/gkrieg/rr are scum? Even with twm's copping of gkrieg making that impossible?

Not impossible.  Just unlikely.  One time i was in a game where in order for someone to be town - I forget who - something vanishingly unlikely had to be true.  And he was town.

[schadd]

    it has been long known that, when two of our more vocal Scouncilfolk have a power to delay Scouncil discussion to an extent far greater than that of our siliest silibusters, then it must be concluded that at least one of them is a sneddite. i think it's in the rulebook, even. it was only a matter of time before our fair competitors remembered this. in that matter of time, they spent much of their energy discussing compelling things like vote counts, godfather probabilities, roleblockevvzzz. oh, excuse me, that was the sound of me falling asleep.
    anyway, labatha, could you cut to some live footage of the ones that are still awake?

    "it is through an elaborate stream of analytical thought and computation that we have come to the conclusion that you are a filthy sneddite."
    "zzzwha? okay, cool, i have to do something later so can you guys get this over with?"
    "aight. uh, can you hand me the ceremonial rusty dagger? yeah, that- thanks."
    [hhhghghghk]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

Roadrunner7671 (5): gkrieg13, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant, Joseph2302, Awaclus
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW

Not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Roadrunner7671

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Roadrunner7671 has been lynched! He was the department of the moneyed elite, a mafia 1-shot strongman.

night 3 starts now and ends Jan. 27 at 1 pm forum time. thread locked

[schadd]

   i'm pretty sure we didn't invite any serial killers in here, but this guy has been giving me a bad impre... oh, wait, no, he got totally brained on while our townsfolk were sleeping. that's unfortunate, but the rules are the rules. not the braining part, specifically, that's just a sned thing. you know sneddites, haha

Joseph2302 has been killed in the night! he was the head of the department of the collor yellow, a town universal backup.


Vote count 4.zero

Not voting (6): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, Awaclus, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13


With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 begins now and ends feb. 3rd; thread unlocked

[gkrieg13]

Just based off what I remember, I think I was right about EFHW.  I will do a reread, but I would be surprised if EFHW isn't scum here.  Especially with how wagons went yesterday.

Also, I think we should definitely have the RB claim today.

[ashersky]

I blocked EFHW, so there's that.

[ashersky]

Also, definitely no lynch, right?  Force them to kill me or Awa, whichever they think is townier.

[ashersky]

BBTTTT or BBETTT or BBCTTT all work for current claims.

[ashersky]

Scum team knew they had one letter wiggle room.  That one letter could be E or C.

[ashersky]

Also, I'd be surprised if scum didn't know I was the RB anyway, so I don't clear EFhW completely.

[gkrieg13]

So that means if I believe ashersky and Awaclus, the team is in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.  Right now I'm leaning EFHW/mcmcsalot, because I believe TWM's claim, and I said that EFHW and mcmcsalot were the scummy ones D1.

[gkrieg13]

Also, I'd be surprised if scum didn't know I was the RB anyway, so I don't clear EFhW completely.

Yes, if they knew that Awaclus was telling the truth, they knew there was an RB, and I think the only people who hadn't explicitly claimed otherwise were you and mcmcsalot?  So if mcmcsalot is scum, then they would know you were the RB 100%

[ashersky]

Also, I'd be surprised if scum didn't know I was the RB anyway, so I don't clear EFhW completely.

Yes, if they knew that Awaclus was telling the truth, they knew there was an RB, and I think the only people who hadn't explicitly claimed otherwise were you and mcmcsalot?  So if mcmcsalot is scum, then they would know you were the RB 100%

Correct.

[ashersky]

Fun facts...

My role is required for Awaclus's to exist, but doesn't guarantee he's telling the truth.
TWM's claim is fully unverifiable.
Gkrieg could just as easily be The Godfather as he is town. Or TWM's partner.

This setup...whoever designed it was amazing.

[EFHW]

I did nothing last night, so we can't know if ash was blocked.

I feel very certain the two remaining scum are gkrieg and mcmc.

[EFHW]

Sorry about all the fuss about RR. You guys were right. I do think a lot of helpful discussion took place as a result.

[gkrieg13]

I did nothing last night, so we can't know if ash was blocked.

I feel very certain the two remaining scum are gkrieg and mcmc.

So you feel certain that I'm the Godfather then?

[EFHW]

Also, definitely no lynch, right?  Force them to kill me or Awa, whichever they think is townier.

I want to lynch gkrieg or mcmc. I don't see a reason not to lynch scum if we can. If we can't agree on both, perhaps enough people agree about one.

[EFHW]

I did nothing last night, so we can't know if ash was blocked.

I feel very certain the two remaining scum are gkrieg and mcmc.

So you feel certain that I'm the Godfather then?

I feel certain you are scum, so yes, because I also have a very strong scumread on mcmc and a strong townread on TWM.

[EFHW]

I did nothing last night, so we can't know if ash was blocked.

I feel very certain the two remaining scum are gkrieg and mcmc.

So you feel certain that I'm the Godfather then?

I'm wondering why you would ask this question. Especially since I answered yesterday as well.

[EFHW]

So that means if I believe ashersky and Awaclus, the team is in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.  Right now I'm leaning EFHW/mcmcsalot, because I believe TWM's claim, and I said that EFHW and mcmcsalot were the scummy ones D1.

So we agree about mcmc.

[EFHW]

I'll reread both him and TWM, though. The timing of the cop claim was a bit too convenient.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so scum is EFHW/TWM/gkrieg

TWM/gkrieg - lied about cop claim and town result on partner
TWM/EFHW - lied about claim but gave true result on town!gkrieg
Gkrieg/EFHW - gkrieg is godfather

I think it's likelier TWM is lying than it is that gkrieg is The Godfather based on how/when TWM made the claim. Then I think why does scum!twm claim a result on town!gkrieg and then continue pushing his scum partner rr. I mean I guess it gives him town credit and makes gkrieg believe him but why not claim the town result on his partner EFHW. This brings me back to thinking TWM/gkrieg are on a team and they claim cop/town result and bus their 3rd partner bringing them into a mylo situation.

So I think the least likely option is town!gkrieg confirmed by scum!twm. Meaning gkrieg is the best lynch option.

[mcmcsalot]

Also, definitely no lynch, right?  Force them to kill me or Awa, whichever they think is townier.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. If you are scum, awaclus has to be scum, and we have to have quite a few unclaimed letters.

Actually I think now is time for a real massclaim to make sure this isn't the case. After that if there are no additional claims, you are an IC and technically awaclus could still be lying though he would have had to gamble about there being a roleblocker in the game on d1. I don't think it's a terrible gamble since it would take this long to figure out, but I also don't think it's likely he guessed correctly.

Basically we could be BCTTTT with scum awa/efhw or awa/gkrieg.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I blocked EFHW, so there's that.

Are your Night1 and Night2 actions worth sharing?

[gkrieg13]

Here are EFHW/RR interactions, just from the EFHW side.  More to come, just didn't want to lose these.

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

TWM, who do you think is scum, besides me, at this point?  Still think Robz?

I still think there is a relatively high chance of Robz being mafia. RoadRunner is still on my radar, but everyone seems to just be giving him a pass for some reason.

Going back over the thread briefly to further answer your question I don't know what to make of either Jake or IDPTG. For some reason they keep combining in my head, but both have had moments that I was suspicious of. But I might be surprisingly a little suspicious of Calamatis. He hasn't really done much except put the brakes on wagons. I don't know if he has given one scum read this whole game. Even mcmcsalot has done more hunting than him.

I'm open to a Calamitas lynch, or mcmc. I think we generally want to let RR and Jake live to Day 2 because they always are getting mislynched Day 1. The pass is both for their sakes and because it has become considered scummy to vote for them Day 1.

vote: mcmc. He's lurking and the above post is kind of too pro-town, and also incorrect since Joseph started his thing before faust voted gkrieg.

btw, hi mcmc!

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

I don't know if this argument holds for mcmc.  He wasn't just idly letting the lynch go by, he actively decided not to be on the wagon and yelled a bit about it, too, iirc.

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

Not only do I rarely notice when the deadlines are, I also don't like to do that because if I leave an absent minded vote on someone that makes them a much more likely candidate for a dumb scramble lynch.

Usually people like to have a vote down when they make their last post before a deadline. And it seems to me that you usually are voting for someone.

faust - Jake - RR scum team?!

I'd be open to an RR lynch. Planning to flesh out my thoughts on gkrieg tomorrow.

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

I'm with you.  Just want to sort out gkrieg first, see if that wagon will fly/roll.

I still think lynching one of RR or jake is the way to go. The cases that are being presented on other: gkrieg, EFHW, awaclus just aren't doing it for me.

Cases on those two are always going to seem stronger than cases on the rest of us. I guess I'm up for either of them, though.  Which would be more informative?  I'm thinking Jake would be since he has actually said stuff.

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

I don't want to lynch RR.  His lack of meaningful contributions means we will learn very little from his flip, and no one has made any kind of case against him, so he'll probably flip town.

My preferences: gkrieg > Jake > faust > RR, ashersky, mcmc > Joseph, Awaclus, TWM

So you still want to lynch Jake because he might be my partner?  You are that convinced that I'm scum?

You are my strongest scum read. Given the apparent lack of interest, my second choice is Jake.  He is acting differently and you have been interacting with him more than usual.  People have defended him and tried to lynch him so his flip will be informative.

I'm confused. Is your argument that scum!gkrieg would openly coach his partner in the game thread?

Yes, especially Jake. Why is that confusing? None of the posts were obvious coaching - people give him advice all the time and the other posts were reasonable admonishments.

My theory about gkrieg could be wrong, but it is based on actual posts by him and is coherent. People are free to agree or disagree. This movement to lynch RR has no apparent basis other than disappointment that he hasn't contributed.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So that means if I believe ashersky and Awaclus, the team is in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.  Right now I'm leaning EFHW/mcmcsalot, because I believe TWM's claim, and I said that EFHW and mcmcsalot were the scummy ones D1.

Yep. EFHW/mcmcsalot is where I am looking. If one of them is the godfather, it would help if we could hit that one first somehow to make my result on gkrieg confirmed.

[gkrieg13]

And here are the rest of them.  I will comment on all of this later.  But really if you just read her posts, it is pretty obvious that RR and she were partners.

Classifying RR as "lurker lynch" is extremely misleading.

I'll take a look at him. The rationale I'm hearing right now is we should lynch him because he is not contributing.  Isn't that a lurker lynch?  No other points are being made.

But Jake is more damaging to town than RR because he posts reads and votes with very little behind them, and unless you are scrupulous about noticing his posts, it's possible to be influenced by those posts inadvertently.

Well, he is currently lurking. He was already scummy before this started. Also he made a big post about how he will try to play better when he was under pressure and then didn't follow up. So it's pretty likely that that post was just AtE and manipulation. Town!RR would feel compelled to actually do something about this. So even his absence now, is not mere "lurking", but alignment-indicative.

Saying "he was already scummy before this started" is meaningless to me.  People do that hand-waving all the time, and it's scummy. Give me some examples. 

I think his AtE was genuine and I'm not surprised he feels hesitant about posting since then, since he really raised the bar of our expectations and doesn't know if he will be able to live up to it.

vote: EFHW

I really don't remember her tunneling this much as town.

It's unusual that I would have so many arguments about one person. OMGUS me if you want.  If I'm lynched, then people will know I was sincere and can take another look at what I had to say.

Now you are saying that my vote is OMGUS?  I think I voted for you first?

I don't know who voted first.  I know your reread followed my beginning to put pressure on you.

I'm a better lynch than RR.

I have reread RR. A few scummy posts I noticed:

 at 52 he comments on the short length of N0.
 at 455 He gives intent to hammer Robz but then says "remember I have no spine".
 at 543 He refuses to name his top three lynch choices.
 at 924 he claims not to notice deadlines
 
He had 109 posts.  He does a lot of policing of Jake.  Maybe that is even helpful to town, I don't know if Jake listens to him or not. He defends Joseph. He doesn't seem fearful at all.  He stands up to mcmc, faust, Awaclus and me when suspected. He gives Jake 4 different reasons why his plan was bad for town. There's the long chat with Jake that I assume provoked the apology.  A bit later the apology, and then nothing until Sat evening.

Things that are questionable:
 Why he only voted once in 2 game days.
 Why he didn't post again until almost 2 days after his apology.

I'm not going to vote RR.

I'm not going to vote RR.

Why not?

Read the thread.

Something can be equal for different reasons. I am not saying they are identical. Two bags can be equally heavy full of rocks or coins.

vote: RR, if we get more Jake votes I'll go back there.

A better vote I think.
RR is being deliberately unhelpful this game, Jake has actually done some reads and that.

RR has been super more helpful than Jake.

Can you point me to a single helpful RR post?
Really going now.

He pointed out 4 different ways that Jake's 3 person plan was a problem. His interventions with Jake have been to illogical and contradictory things Jake has said.  RoadRunner is being RailRoaded.

I hope we hear a lot more from ash and RR today. And lots from everyone else too, but they have been particularly inactive.

I'm going to back off the gkrieg thing for now.  Knowing Jake was town is helpful.  The town narratives fit gkrieg's posts well enough for doubt to creep in.  I found his second post on me really distorted, but I guess that's understandable given the pressure I was putting him under.

This means mcmc, ashersky and RR are the current question marks for me. I have a town read on TWM and Awaclus's claim would be unlikely from scum.  I keep toying with the idea that the town roleblocker should claim, but we couldn't really trust that anyway, so Awaclus isn't IC but also not a scumread at the moment.

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

Several people have noted that most of your interactions Day 1 and Day 2 were with Jake.  Can you say why?

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I've been wanting the roleblocker to claim because then I think I will know the three person scumteam.  But I guess it's not necessary, yet.  We could do one more lynch and they can roleblock a likely suspect. But we're risking Awaclus's claim not being true by continuing despite a claim.

vote: RR

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

POE.

Also you had a really scummy response to TWM's claim.

Is there an advantage to lynching someone else on the scum team besides RR? His partners will throw him under the bus so we won't learn anything from the wagon. I also think mcmc is a more dangerous player.

He probably would have. unvote Sorry, but I need to hear the roleblocker claim.

RR WOULD have claimed roleblocker, though.  He loves claiming stuff.  And then they would know who the roleblocker was when he was counterclaimed.

And I'm starting to feel like TWM is the best Lynch today...

The only scummy thing I see against TWM is that his accusations against RR of lying and manipulating kind of didn't make sense.  First he said it was on purpose, then he said it wasn't RR's initial intention, but by not posting he reneged on his promise which is lying, and makes the promise manipulative.  But people make promises and then find out it's harder than they expected without it being lying. And if it wasn't his initial intention then he wasn't lying, he was being unrealistic.  Maybe he was scum and posting was too hard for that reason, but the lying/manipulation thing doesn't work for me. It's possible scum!TWM was playing up his disgust with RR

I'd like to lynch mcmc or gkrieg today.

I'm sorry to back out of the RR lynch, but I believe that he would have fakeclaimed roleblocker as scum.

I'd like to lynch gkrieg today.

I don't normally use emojis, but I think this qualifies: 

Awaclus, ashersky and gkrieg can't all be town. I think you are town, and feel that ashersky and Awaclus probably are as well, so gkrieg must be godfather. This probably only works from my perspective, but that's what I have to work with!

You omitted that I also wanted to lynch mcmc.

EFHW can't be scum. The way she got off my wagon today is something scum wouldn't do. Cause I was at L-1 with intent to hammer. Scum EFHW should not have unvoted.

I don't know. That seems really spontaneous. Why would you do that out of the blue EFHW? And why would you follow Awaclus?

It's not really out of the blue.  I've already mentioned him more than once as a likely scum.

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

This vote count is one of the biggest points on the scum!RR case.  People on the Jake wagon didn't want to budge, and with 6 needed to lynch, only 4 could be off-wagon, so with me not around, it means that either scum needed to bus, or that ALL remaining town people needed to be on a scum lynch.  The RR wagon is already 3 town at this point, and people kept saying that they were fine with either wagon, but kept on the Jake wagon.  At this point, it might even be the entire scum team on the Jake wagon tbh.  Unless ash or mcmcsalot is scum.

From my perspective, Jake got lynched because he was ruining the game. People who felt like they could do either would pick him.  And it's not like there was anything convincing in the RR cases.

Also, we had 7 town and 3 scum.  You and ash didn't come by, so who knows what combination of scum and town we had.  Saying the entire scumteam was on Jake's wagon is fanciful and not based on facts because we don't know enough.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

Woah!  Deadline snuck up fast!

Look guys, RR would've been hammered if he weren't scum!

I tend to agree with this. Looks a better lynch than mcmc. And I can't work out which of gkrieg and EFHW is the bad one

PPE:1

RR's been at L-2 all this time.  I don't know how many scum teams would feel confident they could coordinate a quicklynch.  I tried it once, and it only barely worked out and was probably foolhardy of me.

If we mislynch here the game rides on the RB (assuming he exists!) successfully blocking the nk, which will be very difficult.

We always lynch RR, because he is scummy as town, and ~90% of the time he is town.

PPE: 2

You know what, for RR to definitely be scum for me, ashersky, Awaclus and TWM need to be town. And I do have townreads on each of them.  I didn't at the start of the day, but things have evolved. Hearing from the roleblocker would have made this much easier.  But I'll take the chance and hammer if needed. at 12.

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

Also these are contradictory. 

[gkrieg13]

I'm fine with a no lynch, but I'm so incredibly confident that EFHW is scum, that I think it is worth it to lynch today.

The two cases are:

EFHW is the roleblocker - This means ash can just block mcmcsalot and we can lynch him if the kill is blocked.  Even if scum decides to no kill (would really have to be TWM at that point, seeing as Awaclus claiming 1-shot RB and getting lucky is just so incredibly unlikely) and mcmcsalot really isn't scum, ash can just block TWM, and we still win.

EFHW is the Godfather - This clears me, so we have enough ICs to once again know that it is either mcmcsalot or TWM (once again, leaning towards the fact that TWM is town)

I realize that this logic hinges on the fact that I'm town, but I think EFHW flipping scum proves I'm town anyway.  If you reread her, like a third of her posts are trying to get people to lynch me.

[EFHW]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

different days

You were.

Also these are contradictory.

[EFHW]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

Also these are contradictory.

different days

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

Also these are contradictory.

different days

Well, maybe IRL, but they were both D3, and both in response to TWM's claim.

[ashersky]

I blocked Calamitas N1 and gkrieg N2.

[EFHW]

great, so we all post that three people other than ourselves, ash or Awaclus have to be scum.

I don't really have a response to gkrieg.  I did say those things.  Make of them what you will. I'm not going to do another exhaustive case on him; that doesn't seem to get me anywhere.  TWM is really backing gkrieg up, so maybe they are partners. I'm just kind of overwhelmed by scumreads at the moment.

[ashersky]

If any other player is claiming PR, how's the time.  At this point, I'm assuming EFHW, gkrieg, and mcmc all claim VT.

Also, Awaclus, I think it's time to claim your block.

[ashersky]

Gkrieg, did you prepare those quotes during night?

[EFHW]

gkrieg wasn't under fire today.

I'm also surprised people are putting me and TWM on a scum team together!  Like why would we claim like that, when it seemed like neither of us were under much scrutiny.

You were.

Also these are contradictory.

different days

Well, maybe IRL, but they were both D3, and both in response to TWM's claim.

No, the first comment was a response to RR Day 3.  The second one was describing Day 2. 

[EFHW]

great, so we all post that three two people other than ourselves, ash or Awaclus have to be scum.

I don't really have a response to gkrieg.  I did say those things.  Make of them what you will. I'm not going to do another exhaustive case on him; that doesn't seem to get me anywhere.  TWM is really backing gkrieg up, so maybe they are partners. I'm just kind of overwhelmed by scumreads at the moment.

FTFM

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg, did you prepare those quotes during night?

No.  I did them just now by rereading and opening a bunch of tabs.

[ashersky]

No lynch means LYLO without me or Awaclus.  Scum team kills based on reads, activity, likelihood of being swayed, etc.

All this hinges on Awaclus not having played us all game, but at this point, if he's lying scum, gg and enjoy the MVP.

We need to find two from {EFHW, gkrieg, mcmc, TWM}.  For the two town there, it's 2 out of three.  You have better odds than me or Awa.

I say we take this day and complete rereads with known info -- RR was scum, etc.  No need to rush.

[EFHW]

I think EFHW flipping scum proves I'm town anyway.  If you reread her, like a third of her posts are trying to get people to lynch me.

That's why I tried to get myself lynched Day 2, so people would know I really meant what I was saying.

[ashersky]

The most likely pairs seem to be EFHW/mcmc or gkrieg/TWM.

I mean, if simple is simple, TWM didn't lie and gkrieg isn't Godfather.  Or TWD did lie no they are partners.

Third place is TWD/X.

Gkrieg/EFHW is unlikely enough that it could have been planned.

[EFHW]

I don't know who voted first.  I know your reread followed my beginning to put pressure on you.

I'm a better lynch than RR.

I do want to mention that if I was RR's partner, I would not think I was a better lynch than him, and pretending I did think that wouldn't be much help to scum!me.

[EFHW]

And here are the rest of them.  I will comment on all of this later.  But really if you just read her posts, it is pretty obvious that RR and she were partners.

If RR was my scumpartner, I'd buss him like crazy, like at least one of his partners did do. I wouldn't stick out my neck to save him, because after the flip being associated with him would be more damaging than losing the team member.

[gkrieg13]

EFHW, you are literally saying that any reason you are scummy, is not really scummy because you would've done the opposite as scum.

[EFHW]

EFHW, you are literally saying that any reason you are scummy, is not really scummy because you would've done the opposite as scum.

These two instances, yes.  Don't know about "any". I probably would do a number of the same things I did in this game as scum.  That's the problem for me here, right?

[EFHW]

I thought TWM seemed pretty angry and upset with RR (and Jake), but when I asked he said he was just frustrated.  The apology betrayal seemed kind of over the top, too (sorry if I'm wrong!).  I'll look for quotes later to get details, but I'm thinking maybe he was overplaying the bussing thing.

[Awaclus]

If any other player is claiming PR, how's the time.  At this point, I'm assuming EFHW, gkrieg, and mcmc all claim VT.

Also, Awaclus, I think it's time to claim your block.

I blocked mcmc N3.

[gkrieg13]

If any other player is claiming PR, how's the time.  At this point, I'm assuming EFHW, gkrieg, and mcmc all claim VT.

Also, Awaclus, I think it's time to claim your block.

I blocked mcmc N3.

But scum!RB knew that ash was probably RB, so I don't think this really clears a mcmc/EFHW team. 

But that does mean that they got lucky that you guys didn't block the opposite people.

[ashersky]

If any other player is claiming PR, how's the time.  At this point, I'm assuming EFHW, gkrieg, and mcmc all claim VT.

Also, Awaclus, I think it's time to claim your block.

I blocked mcmc N3.

But scum!RB knew that ash was probably RB, so I don't think this really clears a mcmc/EFHW team. 

But that does mean that they got lucky that you guys didn't block the opposite people.

I don't know man.  We have EFHW and mcmc blocked on N3 and a kill went through.  I think it is safe to assume that I was blocked N3 and they would have guessed Awaclus had used his shot.

If EFHW blocked and killed, sure.  But for mcmc to have done the kill last night, they had to have decided to block Awa instead of me.

I think this helps mcmc.

[ashersky]

There may be some confirmation bias, as I've strangely townread mcmc from the moment I entered the game.

[gkrieg13]

If any other player is claiming PR, how's the time.  At this point, I'm assuming EFHW, gkrieg, and mcmc all claim VT.

Also, Awaclus, I think it's time to claim your block.

I blocked mcmc N3.

But scum!RB knew that ash was probably RB, so I don't think this really clears a mcmc/EFHW team. 

But that does mean that they got lucky that you guys didn't block the opposite people.

I don't know man.  We have EFHW and mcmc blocked on N3 and a kill went through.  I think it is safe to assume that I was blocked N3 and they would have guessed Awaclus had used his shot.

If EFHW blocked and killed, sure.  But for mcmc to have done the kill last night, they had to have decided to block Awa instead of me.

I think this helps mcmc.

If we lynch EFHW, and she flips the RB, this wouldn't help mcmc. But I agree that if EFHW flips the godfather, it is pretty unlikely that they would've blocked Awa.

[ashersky]

You keep talking like we get two shots at this.

It's MYLO.  100%.

You can't use "EFHW flipping scum will prove X" as a thing.  Whoever we lynch HAS to flip scum or the game ends.  You aren't talking that way, which is scummy.

[ashersky]

EFHW - gkrieg
EFHW - mcmc
EFHW - TWM
gkrieg - mcmc
gkrieg - TWM
TWM - mcmc

Those are it.  Folks, including me and Awa, need to look at these possible pairings by re-reading 70+ pages.

[ashersky]

EFHW and mcmc were the only players off-scum-wagon.

Does scum really not bus RR here?  He did sit at L-2 forEVER.  Bussing is the correct play, but not the guaranteed play.  Still, it's something to think about.

[Awaclus]

EFHW - gkrieg
EFHW - mcmc
EFHW - TWM
gkrieg - mcmc
gkrieg - TWM
TWM - mcmc

Those are it.  Folks, including me and Awa, need to look at these possible pairings by re-reading 70+ pages.

However, I'm going to look at those pairings by re-reading 40 pages.

[ashersky]

EFHW - gkrieg
EFHW - mcmc
EFHW - TWM
gkrieg - mcmc
gkrieg - TWM
TWM - mcmc

Those are it.  Folks, including me and Awa, need to look at these possible pairings by re-reading 70+ pages.

However, I'm going to look at those pairings by re-reading 40 pages.

Fair enough.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'll be doing my reread probably tomorrow. I had started to read through all the most recent replies from Friday, but decided I would wait until after I reread so as to not let those posts dilute and change my thoughts during my own reread. So sorry if there are any questions for me out there. I'll get to them after the reread.

[EFHW]

I reread TWM, and while it was a great scum!narrative that he was protecting gkrieg with a town claim, alas, but also fortunately, I still find him thoroughly towny.

Also none of his interactions with RR seem partner-like, or with mcmc.

So if he is scum, he is having a GREAT first game.

Things I noticed:
-- He is kind of irritable, sarcastic, scolding. This was consistent throughout and seems equal opportunity for all. Also seems like he is motivated by a town wincon.
-- He got way too caught up with Jake, and that was annoying to me, because I was trying to take the "skip Jake's posts" route, but then I had to read TWM's responses to Jake, which were all things Jake has heard many times before.  I guess each of us has to go through the "trying to reason with Jake" experience for ourselves. The RR-Jake conspiracy theory seemed reasonable, though.
-- While he brings up being new many, many times, it feels like he is earnestly trying to master the game. Someone had seen this as scummy, but that wasn't my impression.
-- His Day 2 insistence that gkrieg was town now makes more sense, given his result.

[EFHW]

I don't know what to do about gkrieg.  He reads so incredibly scummy to me, but others aren't agreeing.  Maybe try rereading him as if you hypothetically know for a fact that I am town.

[EFHW]

It seems like everyone is accepting ash as town RB - is that true?
If we no lynch, ash will be nk'd. Awaclus could theoretically be scum, and mcmc, grieg and me.
I don't really agree with ash's reads, but it seems like having one less town around would hamper our efforts even further.

[gkrieg13]

How I see it. Either the team is Awa/ash or it is mcmc/EFHW.

[gkrieg13]

Oh wait, even that isn't possible. Only 1 of the PRs could be scum because we saw a 1-shot strongman. That means that ash can't be scum.

I will say that this doesn't mean that one of them has to be scum. Just that at most 1 is scum.

[gkrieg13]

So ash is IC

[gkrieg13]

And Awaclus is town, just because making the claim he did at the time he did and having it work out is just insane.

So really I just need to find the townie in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.

[gkrieg13]

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

So, to start off, it looks like mcmcsalot is the only wagon at the end of D1 that I don't read as town/know is town.  So really I'm just looking for people who were deflecting off of it in the 6 people I mentioned earlier (those alive - me/faust/Awaclus/Joseph).  Also those people that were trying to consolidate wagons, to avoid wagons on other people.

I would say that if mcmcsalot is scum, EFHW is a likely partner.

I would prefer a robz or mcmc lynch. mcmc is lurking hard and as soon as we started to point that out he came in caused a to of chaos and then went back to lurking so it's not really just a lurker lynch.

This I think continues to give Jake town points.

It is true, from whoever said it, that RR does pretty much only talk about Jake.

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

More urging from EFHW to stay on the mislynches.

Calamitas doesn't offer very much.  He could also be scum.

ash also keeps pushing the Robz wagon, although at this point, it is obvious that one of the major wagons (me/Awa/Robz) is probably going to lynch.

But ash also tries to lynch outside of the existing wagons, so town points to him.

Ok, so TWM (not from this) comes out townie and so does ash.

I think EFHW is the scummiest from this, and also mcmcsalot comes on right after deadline (eerily so).  I think I call a EFHW/mcmcsalot/RR team here.

vote: EFHW

Uh, also I'm amazing just so you know.

[EFHW]

And Awaclus is town, just because making the claim he did at the time he did and having it work out is just insane.

So really I just need to find the townie in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.

See, you say things like this and I can only conclude you must be scum, having ruled out TWM and knowing myself to be town. But it's "he says/she says" here.  We seem to agree about mcmc.  Lynch there?

[gkrieg13]

Well I'm more sure about you being scum than I am about mcmcsalot being scum.

[gkrieg13]

Also just looking back at how RR responded to TWM's claim, it just doesn't seem like they could be partners.  I'll do a little bit more rereading, and put together a case on EFHW, which might include stuff linking her to mcmcsalot as well.

[gkrieg13]

Also just looking back at how RR responded to TWM's claim, it just doesn't seem like they could be partners.  I'll do a little bit more rereading, and put together a case on EFHW, which might include stuff linking her to mcmcsalot as well.

Actually, I might not make a case.  Just read over all the quotes that I pulled and it is obvious that EFHW was defending both mcmcsalot and RR.  She stopped both wagons from really picking up steam.

I guess what I could do is post relevant RR quotes and go the other direction now.

[EFHW]

I haven't defended mcmc in a long time. I misread RR, twice. It's true. I feel bad about it. But he was going to get lynched. Sticking my neck out for him would not be good scum play.

[EFHW]

Also just looking back at how RR responded to TWM's claim, it just doesn't seem like they could be partners. 

By your own POE, mcmc would have to be scum, then.

[gkrieg13]

2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. Robz888 (asterisk)
4. Jakethebaseballgod22
5. Calamitas
6. Awaclus
9. mcmcsalot
10. faust
12. gkrieg13

My lynch pool for today. Not because any of these people are scummy, but because the people I took out are towny.

I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious)

Oh yeah, we've never played before! I play differently, and I used to get lynched a bunch for it because different = scummy. I've grown a bit as a player, but mostly I can get away with weird stuff because I'm RR. Sort of like Joseph, except less extreme.

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much. Is this scummy? No. But I do think one of those three are scum and EFHW isn't in my lynch pool, so lynching Robz isn't the worst. I'm also going to intend to hammer, but keep in mind that I have no spine.

Because I'm not scum.

No, I meant that there hadn't seemed to be a case for gkrieg, nor any suspicion on him.

My 3 are Robz,Big G and McEFHW.

EFHW? The other two seem okay, but EFHW just seems randomly thrown in there.

I'm not sure who my three would be, if we were to actually do this.

McMc and RR who are your 3?

Mcmcsalot brought up the point that scum would want to know exactly the information you're trying to provide. I'm not saying you're scum, but I do think scum would benefit more than town from this information.

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

I just didn't vote so much, I don't see why this is such a big deal. Had I been at the deadline, I would've voted for Robz when he suggested a RR lynch, if not sooner. I feel like you guys are grasping at the straws here in a big way.

So had you been around you would have just omgused robz for suggesting your lynch instead of analyzing the events going down and voting someone you thought was scum, makes sense for what scum wants to do.

No, I would've voted Robz because he was pretty much the only wagon with about 5 minutes left in the day, and because people who were throwing their votes everywhere could've used a kick in the butt. Thanks for twisting my words around, but I don't recall seeing you at the deadline.

would you vote Jake or gkrieg?

Who? Me or TWM?

you

I'd prefer not to vote for Jake but I guess I would because he's hard to read. I'd reread gkrieg before I'd vote for him, but right now I see no reason not to.

I like that TWM has become a RR expert in about 5 minutes. Sorry for 'being lying and manipulative,' that sounds exactly like something I'd do when trying to apologize.

Roadrunners recent posts have been very scummy. I definitely don't like the I don't know what to do post. He genuinely seems like he is invested but doesn't know what to do. Day one I think that points towny but this late in day two with this amount of cases made points toward scum. I know people keep acting like no one is posting but we actually just have a burst of posts then no posts for awhile. My case on Faust is detailed, efhw's on gkrieg is, fausts rereads on everyone have a lot of substance, jake and twm have commented on almost everything. There's tons here to go off of and rr's posts about not knowing what to do look to me like scum literally not knowing what people to side with.

This also makes me think our cases have found scum and rr doesn't want to join them but doesn't want to defend his partners and out them even more.

RR, whether he was town or scum, has never really been conflicted like this. I don't know what the problem is, if I knew it obviously wouldn't be a problem. I am invested in this game though. I just can't figure anything out.

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

I'm calling right now that this is a ploy and the scamteam is gkreig/TWM/x. This seems way too convenient. TWM happens to be a PR at MyLo, and he clears gkrieg, his partner who was under fire. Gkrieg then accepts this, not suspicious at all as to why he would've been investigated N1.

What did gkrieg do D1 to warrant an investigation?

Uh...  Do you remember that I was like crazy close to getting lynched D1?

No I didn't 

But why would that make him want to invest you? Your lynch would've been informative and if your wagon got run up on D2, people might not believe TWM or not care.

@EFHW, what changed from yesterday?

I think it's pretty likely that both TWM and gkrieg are scum, so I'd be happy lynching either. I guess gkrieg has a higher chance of being scum because of Godfather nonsense, but like I said, they're both fine in my book.

EFHW can't be scum. The way she got off my wagon today is something scum wouldn't do. Cause I was at L-1 with intent to hammer. Scum EFHW should not have unvoted.

I am happy to vote for you or gkrieg. I've made that clear. Sorry for tryong to prevent a quick hammer uf you or gkieg are in fact town

Sorry for typos

[gkrieg13]

Also just looking back at how RR responded to TWM's claim, it just doesn't seem like they could be partners. 

By your own POE, mcmc would have to be scum, then.

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

[gkrieg13]

I haven't defended mcmc in a long time. I misread RR, twice. It's true. I feel bad about it. But he was going to get lynched. Sticking my neck out for him would not be good scum play.

Well he hasn't really been scumread by town!people in a long time.

[gkrieg13]

Those RR quotes are all of the ones I could find with interactions with people still alive.

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.1

Not voting (6): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, Awaclus, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13


With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd.

[gkrieg13]

I haven't defended mcmc in a long time. I misread RR, twice. It's true. I feel bad about it. But he was going to get lynched. Sticking my neck out for him would not be good scum play.

Well he hasn't really been scumread by town!people in a long time.

Oh and at MYLO, it is always good scum play to defend your partners.  RR was not going to get lynched until I put my case out on him.  Ash even started the day out going for TWM.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

All right. First up is a specific reread of RR.

People he voted for: Day1: (Jake, EFHW as early votes), Jake again. Day2: Jake. Day3: Note vote

People voting for him (people dead in parenthesis): Day1- RSV votes, TWM, (Robz, faust) Day2 -  (faust) TWM, (faust, Jake, Joseph), TWM, (faust), gkrieg, (Jake), TWM, (Joseph) TWM (Jake) Day3 - gkrieg, EFHW, ashersky, TWM, (Joseph), Awaclus

Final vote: gkrieg13, ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant, Joseph2302, Awaclus

Interesting posts: #454 (says one of EFHW, Robz and Awaclus is scum) but then on #542 talks about Jake's "big three" (Robz, gkrieg and EFHW) saying that the first two are ok, but that EFHW is just randomly thrown in. Makes it look like he forgot that he had included EFHW earlier (although 454 wasn't his "big three" the previous post was just about largerish wagons). #539 sides with mcmc on the not giving a big three. Then wasn't awake for the deadline vote. Skipping all the back and forth. Day2 there wasn't a whole lot there from RR himself. Didn't do much except not post and then come and defend himself and talk with Jake. #1669 calls scum team as gkrieg/TWM/x. #1815 says EFHW can't be scum.

More about RR: Was almost a wagon late Day1 - faust votes, gkrieg shot it down pretty quickly, then Robz. But actually the real tide was just the time on the clock and calamatis voting for Robz. Was obviously the alternate Day2 lynch. I think I posted this before, but EFHW and awaclus were the two who kept the RR wagon from getting any bigger than faust, Jake, Joseph and me. mcmcsalot to an extent as well. And gkrieg and ash were just not around.

So from this I would say EFHW comes out the most likely to be mafia. But post #1815 and EFHW's not voting for RR and then voting for RR and then not voting for RR again looks maybe a little too obvious?

[EFHW]

TWM, you keep allying yourself with gkrieg as if he is confirmed town.  He isn't, and the odds of his being godfather are too big to just wave away as insignficant.

If we assume ashersky is town, there is a 20% chance gkrieg is the godfather.  If we assume Awaclus as well, then 25%.  If you are town, take yourself out and it's 33%.

[gkrieg13]

TWM, you keep allying yourself with gkrieg as if he is confirmed town.  He isn't, and the odds of his being godfather are too big to just wave away as insignficant.

If we assume ashersky is town, there is a 20% chance gkrieg is the godfather.  If we assume Awaclus as well, then 25%.  If you are town, take yourself out and it's 33%.

But the chances that he picked The Godfather to investigate when he did is much smaller

[gkrieg13]

And my relation to RR wasn't scummy like yours was.

[EFHW]

1.

If RR was my scumpartner, I'd buss him like crazy, like at least one of his partners did do. I wouldn't stick out my neck to save him, because after the flip being associated with him would be more damaging than losing the team member.

2.

Oh and at MYLO, it is always good scum play to defend your partners.  RR was not going to get lynched until I put my case out on him.  Ash even started the day out going for TWM.

3.

EFHW and mcmc were the only players off-scum-wagon.
Does scum really not bus RR here?  He did sit at L-2 forEVER.  Bussing is the correct play, but not the guaranteed play.  Still, it's something to think about.

4.

And my relation to RR wasn't scummy like yours was.

1. I say I would bus RR to avoid being associated with him later.
2. You say good play is to defend your partner.
3. ashersky (on an earlier irl day) says correct play is to bus your partner.
4. You find me scummy because I am associated with RR.

So how is it good scum play to defend RR in this situation?

[EFHW]

TWM, you keep allying yourself with gkrieg as if he is confirmed town.  He isn't, and the odds of his being godfather are too big to just wave away as insignficant.

If we assume ashersky is town, there is a 20% chance gkrieg is the godfather.  If we assume Awaclus as well, then 25%.  If you are town, take yourself out and it's 33%.

But the chances that he picked The Godfather to investigate when he did is much smaller

But now it's 33% regardless of what happened before.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM, you keep allying yourself with gkrieg as if he is confirmed town.  He isn't, and the odds of his being godfather are too big to just wave away as insignficant.

If we assume ashersky is town, there is a 20% chance gkrieg is the godfather.  If we assume Awaclus as well, then 25%.  If you are town, take yourself out and it's 33%.

This is a really weird statement to make especially after that last post of mine. I specifically tried to reread without any bias in regard to anyone, except for ash at this point as we are treating him as confirmed town with the setup being the way it is. What I put out was what I saw from RR and how people responded to him. Even putting aside the result of my investigation you come out as scummier compared to gkrieg.

I am very aware that there is a godfather out there and will certainly take it into consideration after I look at everything from a neutral point of view. I haven't been able to do a reread on other individuals yet, but will be doing so soon.

[gkrieg13]

It would be nice to hear from ash/Awa soon.

[Awaclus]

It would be nice to hear from ash/Awa soon.

I still haven't done that reread but I'll get to it.

[mcmcsalot]

It would be nice to hear from ash/Awa soon.

I still haven't done that reread but I'll get to it.

Same, had a busy weekend.

[ashersky]

It would be nice to hear from ash/Awa soon.

I'm reading along.  I am trying to digest all the re-reads and stuff.  I have given lots of reads and opinions before, and am holding back the rest for now.  We have time to figure this out.

[ashersky]

A TWM reread is key.

[EFHW]

First let's clear up this idea that I am protecting mcmc.

I don't want to lynch mcmc at this point.  The contributions he did make were towny, and I didn't get the feeling he had any particular agenda.

That was Day 1.

I'd like to lynch mcmc or gkrieg today.

Let's try vote: mcmc

Day 3

I did nothing last night, so we can't know if ash was blocked.

I feel very certain the two remaining scum are gkrieg and mcmc.

Also, definitely no lynch, right?  Force them to kill me or Awa, whichever they think is townier.

I want to lynch gkrieg or mcmc. I don't see a reason not to lynch scum if we can. If we can't agree on both, perhaps enough people agree about one.

So you feel certain that I'm the Godfather then?

I feel certain you are scum, so yes, because I also have a very strong scumread on mcmc and a strong townread on TWM.

Day 4

Now I'd like to discuss gkrieg's reluctance to lynch mcmc.

And Awaclus is town, just because making the claim he did at the time he did and having it work out is just insane.

So really I just need to find the townie in EFHW/TWM/mcmcsalot.

See, you say things like this and I can only conclude you must be scum, having ruled out TWM and knowing myself to be town. But it's "he says/she says" here.  We seem to agree about mcmc.  Lynch there?

Well I'm more sure about you being scum than I am about mcmcsalot being scum.

Also just looking back at how RR responded to TWM's claim, it just doesn't seem like they could be partners. 

By your own POE, mcmc would have to be scum, then.

By your own POE, mcmc would have to be scum, then.

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

Earlier in the game, I asked if we should lynch a different scum because RR's flip wouldn't tell us much. gkrieg said:

Considering we are at MYLO, and possibly have a roleblocker, there is no advantage.  You definitely want to lynch the almost-known scum first.

I'm willing to lynch mcmc, why would town!gkrieg pass up that opportunity?

vote: mcmc

[EFHW]

I am very aware that there is a godfather out there and will certainly take it into consideration after I look at everything from a neutral point of view. I haven't been able to do a reread on other individuals yet, but will be doing so soon.

Sorry, TWM.  I remembered wrong.  It was gkrieg who said the chances were so small as to be insignificant.

I think the odds are a little different than that (where is Calamitas or SA when you need them!).  But either way, it shows that the chance that he copped the Godfather are small enough that people should consider me an IC if you believe TWM.

Which is nice because with Joseph, TWM, and me, that means that to any other townie, they just need to find the town left in the other 4 people.

mcmc also implied it:

and then when it seemed like we agreed not to claim and not to no lynch twm comes out clearing gkrieg and dropping our lynch pool dramatically.

[EFHW]

1. I say I would bus RR to avoid being associated with him later.
2. You say good play is to defend your partner.
3. ashersky (on an earlier irl day) says correct play is to bus your partner.
4. You find me scummy because I am associated with RR.

So how is it good scum play to defend RR in this situation?

Still hoping for an answer to this.

[gkrieg13]

I haven't defended mcmc in a long time. I misread RR, twice. It's true. I feel bad about it. But he was going to get lynched. Sticking my neck out for him would not be good scum play.

Well he hasn't really been scumread by town!people in a long time.

Oh and at MYLO, it is always good scum play to defend your partners.  RR was not going to get lynched until I put my case out on him.  Ash even started the day out going for TWM.

[EFHW]

I haven't defended mcmc in a long time. I misread RR, twice. It's true. I feel bad about it. But he was going to get lynched. Sticking my neck out for him would not be good scum play.

Well he hasn't really been scumread by town!people in a long time.

Oh and at MYLO, it is always good scum play to defend your partners.  RR was not going to get lynched until I put my case out on him.  Ash even started the day out going for TWM.

How is it good play?  It sounds like you are saying you are not scum because you didn't defend him? But bussing your partner in that situation is often the best move.

[EFHW]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

[gkrieg13]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

It's all WIFOM at this point. My personal belief is you did it so you could distance yourself from mcmc

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.2

mcmcsalot (1): EFHW

Not voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, Awaclus, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Work has been ridiculously busy. Wasn't able to take my break to spend some time on this. Will do at least a short reread tonight.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok quickish reread of these individuals.:

EFHW: main things I am seeing:

* a lot of scumreading on gkrieg. Initially voting for "not paying attention" and then on Day2 basis, at least partially a scum read for "knowing" that Awaclus was town, when it was obvious that wasn't what was meant. These two things jump out to me as they just seem really weak. Now certainly there were other things that EFHW presented, but as I reread these felt like they were attempts to force a read on someone.

* Was on the Robz and Jake wagons. Not in of itself is scummy, but was certainly a driving force for both of them.

* already mentioned the RR interactions. I will add in the comments after my RR reread felt scummy as they automatically assumed I was rereading with a bias toward gkrieg, which I was trying in particular to not do and there wasn't anything evident there to show otherwise.

* pushed for mcmcsalot late yesterday.

mcmcsalot: main things I am seeing:

* was hesitant to get on RR both Day2 and Day3. Well not so hesitant as wanting to look at other options, namely faust Day2 and me Day3.

* seems to have expressed some hesitation to vote EFHW.

* was alternate lynch to RR yesterday late.

* just noticed that he was pretty towny on me prior to my claim and then switched pretty hard after my claim.

gkrieg: main things I am seeing:

* obviously my results on him gives town credit. That RR didn't flip Godfather lessens that a bit. But I do continue to town read him. I mean, I townread him Day1, and then started to doubt that read of him after the end of day1. But much of everything else he has done has shown to be townie. If we lynch correctly today we will get a much clearer picture of gkrieg as he will either be confirmed town to me or my result on him will be meaningless. I would have to have a really strong scum read despite my result to want to lynch here. And I don't

* Was main driver of the RR lynch yesterday, even before my result on him. But few people listened until after I gave my result. If he is mafia, he could have felt confident in pushing for a mislynch yesterday elsewhere (ashersky? myself? mcmc if town? EFHW if town?) from RR likely for the win.

Awaclus: main things I am seeing

* I just really don't have a clue on a lot of his posts. That looks intentional, which really makes me want to find scummy, which ends up making me think the opposite of that.

* Was one of the main detractors of the RR lynch Day2, pushing solely for Jake instead of RR. Offset by the next point

* obviously had the hammer on RR. But was trying to push for mcmc lynch instead of RR Would lynch have happened without his vote? I don't know. Probably would have ended up no-lynching there. And could have gotten away with it without much complaint from anyone.

* Then there is the claim that he had, which if false was made with very little setup knowledge early on and was a major ploy when there may have been better long term options to claim. So that just automatically leans toward being town. As such, I think he just becomes less likely to become mafia from that alone.


Ok. I have to stop there. It wasn't as detailed as I would have liked. I am going to go through what others put down and maybe go back and try and do a bit more.

So EFHW is still the scummiest for me. Followed by mcmc. Then gkrieg and Awaclus.

Certainly if we lynch correctly today and that person isn't Godfather then gkrieg moves up. But that is a big if and I think we are better focused on trying to find that person first. I understand that we need to get the lynch correct today, but we also have to get it right tomorrow and it just doesn't make sense to lynch gkrieg first today when we could have more information about him tomorrow. And he has just felt like a town player all game anyways.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh. I forgot to take the roleblocking night actions into account. What were they again? ash roleblocked EFHW and Awaclus (if roleblocker) roleblocked mcmc?

I guess that adds slight town points to those two, but probably not enough to change anything.

[EFHW]

I am very aware that there is a godfather out there and will certainly take it into consideration after I look at everything from a neutral point of view. I haven't been able to do a reread on other individuals yet, but will be doing so soon.

Sorry, TWM.  I remembered wrong.  It was gkrieg who said the chances were so small as to be insignificant.

I think the odds are a little different than that (where is Calamitas or SA when you need them!).  But either way, it shows that the chance that he copped the Godfather are small enough that people should consider me an IC if you believe TWM.

Which is nice because with Joseph, TWM, and me, that means that to any other townie, they just need to find the town left in the other 4 people.

mcmc also implied it:

and then when it seemed like we agreed not to claim and not to no lynch twm comes out clearing gkrieg and dropping our lynch pool dramatically.

[EFHW]

I guess I'm the only one who recognizes scum! gkrieg in the post above?

[EFHW]

Starting with "Which is nice ..."

[EFHW]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

It's all WIFOM at this point. My personal belief is you did it so you could distance yourself from mcmc

So I'm scum because he is, but you aren't willing to lynch him? So much of your read on me is based on the assumption that mcmc is scum. Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch him first?

[gkrieg13]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

It's all WIFOM at this point. My personal belief is you did it so you could distance yourself from mcmc

So I'm scum because he is, but you aren't willing to lynch him? So much of your read on me is based on the assumption that mcmc is scum. Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch him first?

Not that much of my read on you is based on mcmcsalot being scum.  Where are you getting that from?

[EFHW]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

It's all WIFOM at this point. My personal belief is you did it so you could distance yourself from mcmc

So I'm scum because he is, but you aren't willing to lynch him? So much of your read on me is based on the assumption that mcmc is scum. Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch him first?

Not that much of my read on you is based on mcmcsalot being scum.  Where are you getting that from?

Maybe you could spell it all out, without quotes.

[EFHW]

Also please explain how defending RR was good scum play.

[gkrieg13]

Bump

[gkrieg13]

Where the situation is that you have a partner who always gets lynched whether he is scum or not.

It's all WIFOM at this point. My personal belief is you did it so you could distance yourself from mcmc

So I'm scum because he is, but you aren't willing to lynch him? So much of your read on me is based on the assumption that mcmc is scum. Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch him first?

Not that much of my read on you is based on mcmcsalot being scum.  Where are you getting that from?

Maybe you could spell it all out, without quotes.

I don't really get what you mean.  I think the team is EFHW/mcmcsalot, but on the off chance that TWM is your partner, I would rather lynch you first.  I think that you knew that RR was going down, and so you both defended him and went after mcmcsalot, so that you could distance yourself from mcmcsalot, so that when we come to the vote tomorrow, we aren't sure if mcmcsalot was your partner, or if it was TWM.

[gkrieg13]

Also please explain how defending RR was good scum play.

I'm not necessarily saying that it was good scum play?  Where did I say that?

I don't think it was very good scum play, but I think defending him at MYLO is not horrible scum play for 2 reasons: one you can say something like "if I were scum I totally would've bussed" (which you are saying), and also, if you do manage to sway a few people, you can win the game!

[ashersky]

I will be doing some rereading today.

I don't like that today has become EFHW vs. gkrieg.  That's bad in multiple ways. 

[EFHW]

Also please explain how defending RR was good scum play.

I'm not necessarily saying that it was good scum play?  Where did I say that?

Look at 1977 (may be off by one)

[EFHW]

Sorry, ash. I keep feeling like I'm getting Robzfuscated. Or it suddenly occurs to me maybe he really isn't paying very close attention to what he is saying. If TWM is scum, mvp to him. POE tells me gkrieg has to be scum, so that is definitely coloring my reactions.

[EFHW]

Not that much of my read on you is based on mcmcsalot being scum.  Where are you getting that from?
[/quote]
There have been many examples. Your summary at or near 2009 certainly sounds that way.

[ashersky]

Starting my reread.  Am looking at RR posts and TWM.

Is Big G an acceptable nickname?

It shouldn't be, given that I can't even tell who it's referring to.

Also, note, we have two "Mc"s in this game: McGarnacle and mcmcsalot. Full disclosure: mcmcsalot is my IRL younger brother. Like me, he's a vet who has recently returned to playing.

Who's better? 

Randomly could think if mcmc is scum, RR would ask this.

[ashersky]

EFHW replaced McGarnacle.

And then, of course. If McG/EFHW is his partner, too.

[ashersky]

2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. Robz888 (asterisk)
4. Jakethebaseballgod22
5. Calamitas
6. Awaclus
9. mcmcsalot
10. faust
12. gkrieg13

My lynch pool for today. Not because any of these people are scummy, but because the people I took out are towny.

This early and mostly useless list is interesting on that he actually only removes two players from his lynchpool, pre-claim Joseph and just subbed in EFHW.

To me, that seems like he carried over his pre-existing read on McGarg, who had done very little to deserve removal from the lynch pool.  Unless RR was doing the one on/one off list with his partners.

[ashersky]

If it's fine, then what's the problem?
Other people are allowed to use stupid nicknames, so why not me?

Don't be petulant.

This seems pretty bold for scum to say to a just-claimed UB.

[ashersky]

Jokes, I'm UB

Oh brother.

But it appears he hadn't read through.

[ashersky]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Is this towny or scummy?

[ashersky]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

You know...this is the very post that turned the tide on Robz on D1.  It is part of a longer conversation with TWM.  It continues.

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

This quote comes just under seven minutes after Joseph says the name of the game.  Could he find the quotes in that time frame?  Maybe.

On reread, the whole exchange between gkrieg and TWM feels like a setup to frame Robz for something specifically thought of during pre-game in the QT.

[Awaclus]

I just finished my re-read and this is my conclusion.

Vote: EFHW

[ashersky]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

Hedgy is something newbie scum is.

[ashersky]

I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious)

Oh yeah, we've never played before! I play differently, and I used to get lynched a bunch for it because different = scummy. I've grown a bit as a player, but mostly I can get away with weird stuff because I'm RR. Sort of like Joseph, except less extreme.

This seems like a hard to fake post from RR.

[ashersky]

I just finished my re-read and this is my conclusion.

Vote: EFHW

Do you have a partner for her?

[ashersky]

vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.

The post before this was a defense of gkrieg, sort of.  For someone who says they are a 1-shot Cop who used their shot on gkrieg, it's interesting.

[ashersky]

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

Super Town faust scum read gkrieg a lot.

[ashersky]

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

Why not Cop one of your top suspects?

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz Bye Robz. You are now seeming more and more scummy.

Btw, this is the vote for robz which comes after it was cleared up what went down.

Also Town read on EFHW whose posts I think have all been very pro town and around the same time as jake was pushing robz up until the explaination and then unvoted and confirmed that yes robz was pushing Joseph because it looked like awc soft-claimed.

mcmc town read on EFHW.

[ashersky]

So at the end of all that, it seems like everyone so far has gkrieg in their lynchpool.

I don't.

Man, more town reading.

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW

[ashersky]

Buried in there, on the QT quote, gkrieg misrepresents a little...he says he picked up something others did.  No one else really did until he introduced the idea and TWM pulled quotes for him.

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I don't get why it is scummy that I townread and defended someone.  I had some pretty good evidence (meta) and I don't really whiteknight as scum.  I will point out that I was right in the end anyway, and my reads have been pretty good lately.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

I don't really believe that I lurk more as scum.  I feel like I have been as active in this game as I usually am anyway.  I feel like Jake could be a really good mafia player, but that he does need a little bit of coaching.  I think it would certainly boost his record if he took some of my advice.  I actually don't like this point at all.  The last time I was lynched D1 was when I was town, and it was for having too much fluff.  The posts that I have made haven't been acti-lurking posts, I have been making some good posts, expressing reads (strong reads, not ones that I can really back out of).  None of those things are really scummy.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

I stand by the fact that looking at the behavior Robz looked really scummy.  Why would town!Robz repeat a behavior that he did as scum anyway?  I get the new information that Robz shared, but I still think he is scummy for still wanting Joseph to be hammered.  I think everyone understood that a 1v1 D1 on the UB is definitely worth the counterclaim.  UB isn't super amazing awesome in this setup anyway, which is why in FanFiction mafia, we had the UB claim (I admit that this was scum driven, but enough people agreed on it that I think it is true).  Also I think when dealing with Robz, he is pretty good at explaining his way out of a scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I post honestly as both alignments.  It's my speech pattern, and I use it IRL as well and it bugs my wife.

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

I also don't agree with this point.  I stand by this, and lynching me D1 is a bad choice anyway.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

I said that "confirmed" is what I posted in my QT, because it was half a joke, and something that I hadn't planned on sharing.  I only shared it because I picked up on something that other people did.  I think it does matter if I think Awaclus looked like he was claiming UB.  That is the only measure I have for seeing if I believed that Robz honestly thought that.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I don't really get what you mean here

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

Well you really did choose to view everything I have done in a scum-centered light.  I have been giving solid reads on people as I have been reading the game.  I haven't been lurking, and I still think that Robz is our best shot at lynching scum today.  I think it was Axxle that said that his correct lynch rate was high because he looks at individual posts to find someone scummy, and I think that can be a very good technique.

responses in bold.

[Awaclus]

I just finished my re-read and this is my conclusion.

Vote: EFHW

Do you have a partner for her?

There are multiple plausible options, but I'll figure that out later.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think my three would be:

EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc

I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.

Why not Cop one of your top suspects?

I think I said this already, but my thinking was that I had become less confident in my scum reads as the strongerish ones from Day1 ended up being town (Joseph and Robz), so I felt that if my scum reads were wrong, maybe my town reads were wrong as well and that was I off base on town reading gkrieg. Obviously it would have been better to hit mafia (and maybe I did, but just hit the godfather), but I think gkrieg was a pretty good cop choice.

[ashersky]

I would be fine with a Robz lynch, an Awaclus lynch.  Not really feeling mcmc or RR.

This looks bad in retrospect.

[ashersky]

Need to grab quotes and I need to go to sleep so will wait till morning to post my full case but i am going to vote: faust as he believed joseph was towny before his claim when I think he almost certainly looked scummy and he has repeatedly supported jake's plan to narrow the lynch pool which I think is much more scummy then jakes very damaging but I think town inspired plan.

I'm interested to see your case, but this close to deadline, voting off the 3 existing wagons probably isn't very helpful.

At this point, the existing wagons were Robz, Awa, and gkrieg.

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

So he can't say we didn't remember. 

[ashersky]

I will say that both mcmc and EFHW were online just a minute ago, I saw them in the Who's Online page. They were reading this thread. Neither has appeared. Both really need to move their votes.

This is pretty bad.  This is crazy deadline rush at the end of D1 time.

[ashersky]

In case I'm lynched, remember these reads...


I actually have a huge scum read on Wine Merchant. He screams newbie scum, reminds me of myself in Mafia 2.

Still think Awaclus is real scummy.

Very null on people like Faust and gkrieg.

EFHW seems townie. Not sure about ash.

Jake seems townie. Calamitas too.

That Wine read is...odd, considering I called you out for saying he's deserving of a day pass for trying.

Why does EFHW seem townie?  (NB: I always misread her, I think.)

I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.

EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.

If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game

I sort of already made it... you're playing pretty hard for a newbie, but you seem to think "pick someone and push them hard for a lynch" is what you should be doing, which is exactly what I thought I should do in my first scum game, Mafia 2.

My scum read on TWM had started when TWM asked for this from Orbz.

[ashersky]

Scum: Wine Merchant, awaclus, very probably either faust or gkrieg but not both

Not getting particularly scummy vibes from ash, I think scum ash wouldn't have gone after me here

Robz is adamant on TWM.

[ashersky]

Ok, finished D1.  Robz is lynched and we have the unexplainable Calamitas NK. 

I keep ending up with gkrieg+TWM or EFHW+mcmc, but not really any other combo.

Scum distancing is a thing, but EFHW even subbed in so they couldn't plan it, if they did.

Will read the rest of the days soon.

[ashersky]

When is the deadline?

[EFHW]

Friday. 

ssschaddd - what time is deadline?

[EFHW]

I will say that both mcmc and EFHW were online just a minute ago, I saw them in the Who's Online page. They were reading this thread. Neither has appeared. Both really need to move their votes.

This is pretty bad.  This is crazy deadline rush at the end of D1 time.

I did come on and vote 27 seconds later. I don't remember why I wasn't there sooner.

[gkrieg13]

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd.

[gkrieg13]

Oh never mind.  Just noticed that the time is missing...

[schadd]

whh0ps. 1pm forum time, 48hr and 14 min from now

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.3

mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
EFHW (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13

Not voting (3): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, mcmcsalot

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends Feb. 3rd, 1pm forum time, in just under 48 hours

[mcmcsalot]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

[gkrieg13]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

Woah, woah, woah there.  I put EFHW to L-2 (which isn't a big deal), for NO REASON???.  Where have you been the whole game???

I have put forth many reasons why EFHW is scum, throughout today, and even D1, and D2.  I mean come on.

[mcmcsalot]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

Woah, woah, woah there.  I put EFHW to L-2 (which isn't a big deal), for NO REASON???.  Where have you been the whole game???

I have put forth many reasons why EFHW is scum, throughout today, and even D1, and D2.  I mean come on.

Jeez I didn't mean you didn't have a reason to vote her I meant your post contained nothing but the vote. I think scum has a harder time justifying why they are voting in that specific post hence they just vote and then say "yea but I've mentioned my reasons for the last few pages" which I know, but you didn't vote the last few pages, you voted now.

[gkrieg13]

hmm gkrieg puts EFHW to l-2 with no reason after awaclus votes her. Scum jumping on at 2 votes so TWM just has to wait for me or ash to vote...

Plus great research from ash on all robz/faust thoughts, I'm much more confident now that gkrieg/TWM are the team and lied about their claim.

Woah, woah, woah there.  I put EFHW to L-2 (which isn't a big deal), for NO REASON???.  Where have you been the whole game???

I have put forth many reasons why EFHW is scum, throughout today, and even D1, and D2.  I mean come on.

Jeez I didn't mean you didn't have a reason to vote her I meant your post contained nothing but the vote. I think scum has a harder time justifying why they are voting in that specific post hence they just vote and then say "yea but I've mentioned my reasons for the last few pages" which I know, but you didn't vote the last few pages, you voted now.

The deadline is getting closer, and I realized that I hadn't voted, even though there isn't another place I will vote today.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

You know...this is the very post that turned the tide on Robz on D1.  It is part of a longer conversation with TWM.  It continues.

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

This quote comes just under seven minutes after Joseph says the name of the game.  Could he find the quotes in that time frame?  Maybe.

On reread, the whole exchange between gkrieg and TWM feels like a setup to frame Robz for something specifically thought of during pre-game in the QT.

Pulling up someone's quotes is pretty easy to do. And that post wasn't hard to find. Just do a name search and read through the posts. I was online right when Joseph responded with the specific game and jumped right into looking.

But what I really don't follow is your train of thought here. Are you saying that gkrieg and I (well really gkrieg would have had to have anticipated it as that wasn't a game that I followed) must have anticipated that Robz would 1. not believe a claim and 2. continue to vote for a claimed PR? Cause that would be some major levels of anticipation.

[mcmcsalot]

While I think it's a stretch that you had the quote prepared, I agree with the overall point that you and gkrieg had a conversation that ended in robz looking scummy and getting lynched.

[Awaclus]

L-2 is a pretty big deal in D4 MyLo though.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

While I think it's a stretch that you had the quote prepared, I agree with the overall point that you and gkrieg had a conversation that ended in robz looking scummy and getting lynched.

That isn't ash's overall point at all. His whole point is that it had to be prefabricated just because I posted and found the quotes quickly.

And it wasn't like gkrieg and I were the only ones that agreed with those points.

[Awaclus]

Another thing that's a pretty big deal is reading the new page instead of thinking that the last post on the previous page is the last post in the thread, period.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Another thing that's a pretty big deal is reading the new page instead of thinking that the last post on the previous page is the last post in the thread, period.

Sorry. I am not understanding what you just said.

[mcmcsalot]

Another thing that's a pretty big deal is reading the new page instead of thinking that the last post on the previous page is the last post in the thread, period.

Sorry. I am not understanding what you just said.

Me either...

[Awaclus]

You've never had it happen to you that you click on the "new" button to show unread posts, and it takes you to the second last page of the thread, and you read that page and don't notice that there's another page that you haven't read yet?

[mcmcsalot]

L-2 is a pretty big deal in D4 MyLo though.

And this, scum thinks it's less of a big deal because they aren't constantly paranoid about quickhammers.

I can easily see godfather!gkrieg vote for his partner here or scum!gkrieg hoping on town!efhw and hoping me/ash join so TWM can hammer.

[EFHW]

Are you saying that just happened to you, or that you think someone else did that?

Ppe

[mcmcsalot]

You've never had it happen to you that you click on the "new" button to show unread posts, and it takes you to the second last page of the thread, and you read that page and don't notice that there's another page that you haven't read yet?

Ohhh, no I haven't had that happen though I get what you are saying.

PPE: EFHW I think he's saying it happened to him.

[Awaclus]

Are you saying that just happened to you, or that you think someone else did that?

Ppe

I'm saying that I thought I was posting directly after gkrieg's post but then it ended up looking super weird because there were other posts in between.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am failing to see the significance.

[EFHW]

L-2 is a pretty big deal in D4 MyLo though.

And this, scum thinks it's less of a big deal because they aren't constantly paranoid about quickhammers.

I can easily see godfather!gkrieg vote for his partner here or scum!gkrieg hoping on town!efhw and hoping me/ash join so TWM can hammer.

It's not because they aren't paranoid, it's because they are already voting!

[EFHW]

I am failing to see the significance.

Small talk?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am failing to see the significance.

Small talk?

I'm generally not very good at that. It stresses me out.

[mcmcsalot]

L-2 is a pretty big deal in D4 MyLo though.

And this, scum thinks it's less of a big deal because they aren't constantly paranoid about quickhammers.

I can easily see godfather!gkrieg vote for his partner here or scum!gkrieg hoping on town!efhw and hoping me/ash join so TWM can hammer.

It's not because they aren't paranoid, it's because they are already voting!

Scumslip? Unless you are scum or awaclus has pulled the mother of all claims off there is only one scum currently voting.

[mcmcsalot]

I am failing to see the significance.

Small talk?

I'm generally not very good at that. It stresses me out.

What a beautiful catch 22, you are most likely not good at it because it stresses you out and it's only stressful because you feel you are bad at it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am failing to see the significance.

Small talk?

I'm generally not very good at that. It stresses me out.

What a beautiful catch 22, you are most likely not good at it because it stresses you out and it's only stressful because you feel you are bad at it.

Well now I feel even worse. Thanks.

[mcmcsalot]

TWM EFHW is the only other person on quickhammer now. vote: EFHW

[The_Wine_Merchant]

vote: EFHW

[mcmcsalot]

Yeeeeees omg I have been refreshing for an hour straight...

[EFHW]

L-2 is a pretty big deal in D4 MyLo though.

And this, scum thinks it's less of a big deal because they aren't constantly paranoid about quickhammers.

I can easily see godfather!gkrieg vote for his partner here or scum!gkrieg hoping on town!efhw and hoping me/ash join so TWM can hammer.

It's not because they aren't paranoid, it's because they are already voting!

Scumslip? Unless you are scum or awaclus has pulled the mother of all claims off there is only one scum currently voting.

That was an indeterminate"they", standing in for one or more scum voting on the wagon seemingly at risk of a quickhammer.

[EFHW]

Damn, sorry gkrieg.

[EFHW]

We should have lynched mcmc.

[mcmcsalot]

We should have lynched mcmc.

But EFHW you are my partner why would you lynch me 

[schadd]

thread locked

D4 Final Vote Count

mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
EFHW (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (1): ashersky

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

[schadd]

EFHW has been lynched! she was the head of the department of aquatic arts, a vanilla townie!

night 4 starts now

[schadd]

the mafia have entered night actions sufficient to win the game.


congrats to the mafia team of: The_Wine_Merchant, head of the department of boogers and mafia godfather; mcmcsalot, head of the department of documentaries and mafia roleblocker; and Roadrunner7671, head of the department of the moneyed elite and mafia 1-shot strongman.


mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/xQqNh5wWxjCqv
mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Hc9jhc2UHZY
speccies: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/gAmWbzE3LtXXK, https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/sT263SH2uYk


mvp/ending flavor to come


uh thread unlocked

[mcmcsalot]

Good game everyone, so much fun! Thanks to the mods for running it, wonderful job on the vote counts and prods (even if most of them were on me!)

[schadd]

     ah. somehow we hadn't considered, at the outset, that a Scouncil consisting of 2 sneddites and a pile of grody corpses, might be a bad enough outcome to just keep on with the system as it was. although, i guess, they have been outed, on public television... and surely there is another group of 14 people that would be more than willing to fill the vacancies once they get very much shot by some stray snadgilantes. lemme tell ya, there exists no nicer, nor more utilitarian group of people than the snaddites, but they will kill when they need to.
     anyway. congrats to our sneddites for their triumph today. however, as much as our system is stacked against the common man, it is ten times as stacked against weird religious minorities. this will be but a blip in the long history of success and prosperity asterisk question mark that aegence has claimed to experience over the last several millenia.
     i have been your ever-photogenic, ever-charismatic, ever-idiosyncratic host, greaseth wobbles-wednesday, allowing you to observe the latest blood and gore and smash mouth from a safe distance. i am signing off; please be healthy, and keep buying our stuff and watching our tv.

The_Wine_Merchant is this game's MVP! with a neat-o breakout performance, he was not widely scumread for a large portion of the game; even when he was, to some extent, the cop fakeclaim prevented anyone from placing him on a team with mcmcsalot, and i think that this would have persisted even should the game have proceeded to D5.

[ashersky]

I scumread him most of the game and called his Cop claim crap from the beginning.

Valid MVP, although no one should crap on mcmc's performance here.

[ashersky]

I would have voted TWM today.  And then probably gkrieg tomorrow, had I lived (I wouldn't have).

At least I wasn't on the mislynch.

[ashersky]

I also did another ten pages of reread before realizing the game was over.

[ashersky]

Good job, schadd, btw.

I know people like to poop on this setup, but it really has provided some fantastic games on f.ds.

[gkrieg13]

Wow good job guys.  I just felt sure that EFHW had to be scum because of her interactions with RR.

Sad face.

[gkrieg13]

Also sorry EFHW

[ashersky]

Awaclus chose wrong, too.

Just great scum play.  Can't be sad about it.

I do wish mcmc had counterclaimed me.  It would have been Mean Girls 2!

Also, if they had killed EFHW on N1, the game would have been very different.

[ashersky]

Speccy scum reading me all game.

[ashersky]

I guess I didn't need to waste all my time rereading...

[Robz888]

TWM played a great game considering it was his first, though he did really scream newbie scum to me, increasingly, as the game went on. I would pick mcmc for MVP, though it's not my call.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yay team!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh good. That last hour was stressful. Hence my emphasis on being stressed out. I had to get to a meeting at work and wasn't sure if the best move was to try and get both of us to vote. Glad it worked out the way it did.

Thanks for the recognition. I went really back and forth on whether I was playing well or not. I felt super obvious most of the time.

The claim turned out to work, but if you read the mafia QT you will realize it was a mistake, as I misunderstood mcmc's plan for it and misinterpreted a post in the thread where it looked like he wanted me to claim.

This game is hard. I'll play again, but I am going to take a break.

Thanks for running and thanks to RR and mcmc for playing on our team.

[gkrieg13]

Oh good. That last hour was stressful. Hence my emphasis on being stressed out. I had to get to a meeting at work and wasn't sure if the best move was to try and get both of us to vote. Glad it worked out the way it did.

Thanks for the recognition. I went really back and forth on whether I was playing well or not. I felt super obvious most of the time.

The claim turned out to work, but if you read the mafia QT you will realize it was a mistake, as I misunderstood mcmc's plan for it and misinterpreted a post in the thread where it looked like he wanted me to claim.

This game is hard. I'll play again, but I am going to take a break.

Thanks for running and thanks to RR and mcmc for playing on our team.

Th game is hard in a different game when you're town!  I hope you stick around to see the game from that side of things.

[EFHW]

Awaclus chose wrong, too.

Just great scum play.  Can't be sad about it.

I do wish mcmc had counterclaimed me.  It would have been Mean Girls 2!

Also, if they had killed EFHW on N1, the game would have been very different.

Yeah, all of my reads were wrong this game, except mcmc.

[EFHW]

On the other hand, nobody would have posted.

[Robz888]

Oh good. That last hour was stressful. Hence my emphasis on being stressed out. I had to get to a meeting at work and wasn't sure if the best move was to try and get both of us to vote. Glad it worked out the way it did.

Thanks for the recognition. I went really back and forth on whether I was playing well or not. I felt super obvious most of the time.

The claim turned out to work, but if you read the mafia QT you will realize it was a mistake, as I misunderstood mcmc's plan for it and misinterpreted a post in the thread where it looked like he wanted me to claim.

This game is hard. I'll play again, but I am going to take a break.

Thanks for running and thanks to RR and mcmc for playing on our team.

Yeah it's real tough to be scum, especially in your first game here. You did great!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Th game is hard in a different game when you're town!  I hope you stick around to see the game from that side of things.

I plan to. I have got a long vacation coming up in a few weeks. I think I'll join a game once I get back from that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yeah it's real tough to be scum, especially in your first game here. You did great!

Thanks!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Good job all. Good job TWM. My first scum game I got lynched right away so good job.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus chose wrong, too.

Yeah, I was overcomplicating things. I thought mcmc couldn't actually be scum with how scummy he had been the whole game.

[Joseph2302]

the mafia have entered night actions sufficient to win the game.


congrats to the mafia team of: The_Wine_Merchant, head of the department of boogers and mafia godfather; mcmcsalot, head of the department of documentaries and mafia roleblocker; and Roadrunner7671, head of the department of the moneyed elite and mafia 1-shot strongman.


mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/xQqNh5wWxjCqv
mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Hc9jhc2UHZY
speccies: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/gAmWbzE3LtXXK, https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/sT263SH2uYk


mvp/ending flavor to come


uh thread unlocked

Damn it.

[Joseph2302]

Gg though, not the scum team I thought.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I like a TWM/mcmc/RR team right now.

This was a scary post.