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[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

I am not sure what you are asking.

[Joseph2302]

I suggest we do mass claim, but not No Lynch.

What? This needs an explanation, since it seems to be the worst of both worlds

Well no lynch is obviously bad. It will just likely result in you dying. So I don't know why you think that would be a good idea.

And I feel like mass claim will at least give us some information to go off. It might not be perfect information, but it will be a good starting point and at this point in the game I feel like we need something substantial to go off. I understand that others might not want it, which is understandable and is why I am not insisting on it.

No lynch seems like it is strictly bad. Mass claim seems like it is both good and bad and since we are getting close to a place of no return, why not put it all out there? We really need a correct lynch today.

Sorry you said Not no lynch, I missed the not. Apologies

[EFHW]

I'm hoping now that Jake is gone we can hear TWM's reads of other players besides him and RR.

Do you want my reads from memory right now or wait until I have done a reread? Or both?

I think rereads are considerably better than memory, but I want to hear anything you have to say.

Did I understand you right about Day 2?

I am not sure what you are asking.

The post you quoted from above.  In the first part of it I had a narrative of you from Day 2 and I'm wondering if you feel like it is accurate.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry you said Not no lynch, I missed the not. Apologies

That's cool. Double negatives man. They are not never the worst.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think Jake and RR riled him up so much that he seemed scummy Day 2 but was just upset. I don't think newbie scum would try to pull off the back and forth from the end of Day 2.

This part?

I guess. I mean, I didn't feel like I was upset, I mean, this is just a game. I wasn't like screaming or pounding my fists on my keyboard. They were a bit frustrating. But I wasn't voting for them just because I was frustrated, but because it seemed like what they were doing was a legitimate tactic that they could use as mafia. Just try and ham it up as much as possible and then pretend to turn on each other if they got called out on it. So it felt right, so I went for it. Obviously that was wrong, but I would say it was more logic driven than emotionally driven. There was emotion, sure, but it wasn't the controlling force behind my actions.

I think there is still a narrative there for RR to play off Jake and hide behind him in a sense, but I want to go back and reread and reset my thinking with the new context that we have.

[EFHW]

I think Jake and RR riled him up so much that he seemed scummy Day 2 but was just upset. I don't think newbie scum would try to pull off the back and forth from the end of Day 2.

This part?

I guess. I mean, I didn't feel like I was upset, I mean, this is just a game. I wasn't like screaming or pounding my fists on my keyboard. They were a bit frustrating. But I wasn't voting for them just because I was frustrated, but because it seemed like what they were doing was a legitimate tactic that they could use as mafia. Just try and ham it up as much as possible and then pretend to turn on each other if they got called out on it. So it felt right, so I went for it. Obviously that was wrong, but I would say it was more logic driven than emotionally driven. There was emotion, sure, but it wasn't the controlling force behind my actions.

I think there is still a narrative there for RR to play off Jake and hide behind him in a sense, but I want to go back and reread and reset my thinking with the new context that we have.

ok, thanks

[EFHW]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

[mcmcsalot]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

[Roadrunner7671]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

[EFHW]

@RR: Did you think Jake was scum?

It's impossible to tell with Jake. I did, however, think that the more he posted the more possible it would be to tell. While we were having our back and forth, he seemed to relaxed to be scum. But later in the day I think he started acting scummy.

Several people have noted that most of your interactions Day 1 and Day 2 were with Jake.  Can you say why?

[gkrieg13]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

[gkrieg13]

Ok I'm going to start rereading with the end of D2.  But first I was thinking about some things.

The main thing is why hasn't Awaclus died yet?  If he really were a 1-shot RB, wouldn't you want to kill him N1, so that Joseph inherits a 1-shot RB?  Isn't that like one of the worst things Awaclus could inherit?

[ashersky]

Ok I'm going to start rereading with the end of D2.  But first I was thinking about some things.

The main thing is why hasn't Awaclus died yet?  If he really were a 1-shot RB, wouldn't you want to kill him N1, so that Joseph inherits a 1-shot RB?  Isn't that like one of the worst things Awaclus could inherit?

Well, Awa can't inherit anything.

Also, leaving him alive leaves a mislynch on the table.  Plus, PR hunting is a thing if they know a lot were rolled.

[mcmcsalot]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

Quite a bit actually, I know for some reason people hate relying on cases that are older than a day, but he was brought to L-1 day one for being scummy and the interaction of the soft claim situation with robz. Similarly to how jake flipping town makes me feel a bit scummy toward roadrunner, robz being the lynch ending day one and being town I see awaclus as slightly scummy. I really didn't like his answer for lurking all of day 2 by stating he felt it was the best thing to do as a claimed or, to let others make cases and simply give opinions. There is also the claim, which I have never believed, I've mentioned countless times how safe a claim it is for scum to make. There is part of me that finds him less scummy than I did because I saw a lot of Faust/awa connections which now mean something totally different than had faust been scum.

[ashersky]

You know, if there's another 1-Shot RB, they should claim.

[gkrieg13]

I'm not going to vote RR.

Just pointing out interactions where I see them.

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

This is scummy from Awaclus.  He tends to be stubborn about really strange things when he is scum.

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

This is right after the case on faust from mcmc.

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

I think we can save assessing him for another day (day3 or day4?) when claiming role blocker or no role blocker makes more sense. Doing so now, late Day2 doesn't make any sense and I wouldn't want to lynch him without first checking that information.

This is interesting, and makes me want to have the RB claim more and more.  I'm actually confused why we don't want the RB to claim?  I agree with lynching today (it gives us 2 possible days of lynching correctly if the NK doesn't go through, instead of just 1), but why not have the RB claim?  It lets us at least link someone to Awaclus if he is scum, and if he isn't scum, it isn't like we are giving scum too much information anyways. 

I guess the upside of leaving the RB silent is that if there really is an RB, they would just be roleblocked by the scum RB and then we won't get two lynches.  But the chances of our RB picking the correct scum that is performing the kill is really small anyway.

Do you two really not see what I am seeing here?

Who else is going to join the RR wagon though? Is anyone on that is going to go for that that isn't already on it?

Or do you want to try something else?

This stands out to me.  He is trying to keep the lynch on Jake or RR, while faust and Joseph are trying to push from those two wagons.

@TWM, Jake doesn't respond to feedback. But he's an informative lynch and a major disruption to the game and maybe scum partners with gkrieg, so that's why I am voting him. Scum purposely try to keep him around when he is town.

Now that Jake is flipped town, has your perception of me changed any?

I'm a really informative lynch.  vote: EFHW

This is really weird from EFHW.  She only has one vote on her at this point, so this isn't exactly a risky self-vote.

Vote Count 2.11

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in a half-hour

At this point in the day, if ash is town, it is very unlikely that scum would be lynched.  With no bussing, even with just me not being there, it would've had to be all town on the scum wagon to get them lynched.  We already know that the RR wagon is all town at this point, so I wouldn't be surprised if all scum was on the Jake wagon at this point.  I think scum would be more likely to lynch town!RR at this point because it doesn't give nearly as much information as the Jake lynch, and because people weren't as opposed to it.  Actually just reading the EoD, I get the feeling that RR will be the lynch because so many people are voicing their support of the lynch, so I'm surprised that Jake was the lynch.

I would actually be very surprised if RR weren't scum after seeing this.

So I had forgotten rr day one was also hating jakes plan. EFHW's defense of him was solid. I guess I'll go jake if we can't do faust

This is the vote that allowed them to lynch Jake I think.

Please do me a favor and lynch RR, EFHW, ash once I'm dead.

I think I agree with 2 of these.

Day 2 Final Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22


With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

And this is the final vote count.  I would guess that all the scum are on-wagon, with the way the lynch went down.  I guess really all that means is that I think ash is town atm.

Also, the way people weren't willing to switch to RR at the end just HAS to mean that he is scum.  Especially because we know that everyone voting for him was town.

I'm thinking the team is EFHW/RR/TWM personally.

[gkrieg13]

I should hopefully get to a reread tonight or tomorrow morning but from right now I've got slightly scummy on gkrieg/awaclus/rr and slightly towny on EFHW/twm/ash.

Why scummy on Awaclus?

Quite a bit actually, I know for some reason people hate relying on cases that are older than a day, but he was brought to L-1 day one for being scummy and the interaction of the soft claim situation with robz. Similarly to how jake flipping town makes me feel a bit scummy toward roadrunner, robz being the lynch ending day one and being town I see awaclus as slightly scummy. I really didn't like his answer for lurking all of day 2 by stating he felt it was the best thing to do as a claimed or, to let others make cases and simply give opinions. There is also the claim, which I have never believed, I've mentioned countless times how safe a claim it is for scum to make. There is part of me that finds him less scummy than I did because I saw a lot of Faust/awa connections which now mean something totally different than had faust been scum.

What has given you any reason to "never believe" Awaclus' claim?

[gkrieg13]

Also I think the full RB should definitely claim today, as said in my post above.

[gkrieg13]

vote: TWM based on the way the day ended.

This is the post that makes me feel like ash is town.

Interesting to note that both EFHW and Awaclus are onboard for the massclaim. 

Note sure massclaim is the right call here, and it seems scummy to raise it, no?

We've got VT flips and one claim.  We know it has to be BBXXXX if Awaclus is telling the truth.  We know there's a full Roleblocker if Awaclus is telling the truth.

Massclaim then serves what purpose?  We can out an RB and confirm Awaclus.  Depending on order, scum could fake that if Awaclus is also scum.  There's no difference between 3 and 4 Ts, so unless we get multiple other PRs claimed, we don't get new information.  And scum knows how many Ts there are (probably, within two for sure) and have wiggle room to make stuff up.

Like, if we have 5 or 6 Ts, Awaclus can safely fakeclaim 1-Shot RB specifically and we'd out him when no one claims RB in a mass claim.  That's a good thing, but seems like the only benefit right now.  Except a scum partner just claims RB and they confirm each other.

If that was the plan (the 5/6 T plan), they've have killed Joseph by now, as the UB not inheriting a power would be risky.

Eh, can someone lay out some more benefits to a mass claim?

I disagree with this here.  I think the massclaim might not be the best option, but it is certainly not scummy to bring it up.

I think it would be good to tie someone to Awaclus if they are scum.  We could find that a very townie person ends up claiming RB, which gets us somewhere.  Either way, it gives us a lot more to go off of, which we need if we are going to lynch today (which I now think we should).

I don't get the bolded part.  The flip would happen first, so I don't get why the UB not inheriting a power is risky?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Do you two really not see what I am seeing here?

Who else is going to join the RR wagon though? Is anyone on that is going to go for that that isn't already on it?

Or do you want to try something else?

This stands out to me.  He is trying to keep the lynch on Jake or RR, while faust and Joseph are trying to push from those two wagons.

That isn't accurate. faust and Joseph were on RR at this point. And I specifically ask if they want to go elsewhere and got nothing back.

And I go to RR about 5 posts later, but go back to Jake when it became more apparent RR wasn't happening and jake became scummier wanting to lynch awaclus.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

[Joseph2302]

I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I think it is so I am going to do it.

I am a 1-shot Cop. On Night1 I investigated gkrieg and I received a town result. So 2/3 town for him, plus he has been townie throughout the game. But at this stage I think I want to get this information out there as I think it will help with narrowing down who mafia is most likely to be.

I don't know if we want to do additional claiming or not.

Well. So wine and Gkrieg are definitely on the same team.

Presumably town