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[Awaclus]

How about the fact that you can't point to a case against me?

I don't need to point to a case against you. Look, I'm already voting for you and nothing's stopping me even though I haven't made a case against you. You need to defend yourself and convince me if you want me to move my vote, because there's no other way you can influence my vote.

[Awaclus]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

[mcmcsalot]

This was the original case

At TWM, maybe its because I think the robz lynch was a crappy lynch and a result of our D1 being terrible and having very few legitimate cases being made. I thought Robz was town since the entire soft!claim issue.

Oh also here is my case repeated for people who didn't pay attention to it yesterday since it was too late.

Okay lets look at faust

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Okay so look, don't tell others who we should look at! (for clarity faust does go on to make a gkrieg case much much later.)

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Oh you mean since you did it too and have had a town read on EFHW all game.


It is next that faust makes his gkrieg case and at the end says I am not quite sure if I am just having confirmation bias so what does everyone else think. Which hey at least he finally made a case but it still seemed like you won't stick by it if other people don't like it, which is scummy in my opinion.

Then this post started a back an forth that lasted awhile and I think Fausts defenses were pretty bad.

Ah here it is!

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

And then yes shortly thereafter

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

And then eventually

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Also I still don't believe Awa's claim and would lynch him over jake and rr

Me too

[Awaclus]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

I'm not being ignorant. You're being scum until you can prove that you aren't. I don't really care who it was that you asked; regardless of who it was, it should be you answering the opposite question.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Morning!

I can go back to Jake, but sticking with RR for now. I don't think I would go to Faust.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

[EFHW]

I think a lot of faust's comments and votes have been scummy, but that's partly because he consistently disagrees with me. If we get some flips we'll be in a better position to evaluate how he is playing.

[mcmcsalot]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I could make a case against you if I wanted though. I just think it's better to not make any cases at this point since it's so early in the game, it's better to get further information by seeing how people react to caseless votes.

Now your just being ignorant but whatever plus I asked EFHW why not you?

I'm not being ignorant. You're being scum until you can prove that you aren't. I don't really care who it was that you asked; regardless of who it was, it should be you answering the opposite question.

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

[Joseph2302]

It's a good case, but I still think faust is town.
Faust has played enough with me to know I do crazy things, mostly as town. He found me scummy but then no-one is going to claim UB.

I think mcmc may be town, but I'm still more sure of faust being town.

PPE: 3

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

I think we can save assessing him for another day (day3 or day4?) when claiming role blocker or no role blocker makes more sense. Doing so now, late Day2 doesn't make any sense and I wouldn't want to lynch him without first checking that information.

[Joseph2302]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

[Awaclus]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: jake

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.9

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Awaclus, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
EFHW (1): gkrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (3): , faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302

Not voting (0):


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time, which is in 2ish hours.

[Awaclus]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

Have you tried removing the votes that people have cast on you? How has that been working out for you?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?

This is not the justice system, this is Mafia. Here, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well I would rather not subscribe to that peamstic notion because I like to know why someone is guilty of being scum.

Have you tried removing the votes that people have cast on you? How has that been working out for you?

How can I when no one says why there voting for me besides "your scummy"

[mcmcsalot]

Don't like Jake's most recent posts though. Mcmcsalot and Joseph, would you two go for Jake?

No, would you go for awa?

Only as a last resort.
And probably not to Awaclus- why would he claim 1-shot RB as a fake claim?

PPE: All since my last post

Because it's not a role that requires him to give a night result over and over again, he has reason to not claim if he has used it at all. The fact that it requires the presence of a roleblocker isn't a huge problem. Any number of B roles means there is a roleblocker that would believe his claim thus supporting him which is helpful for scum. Also if there isn't a roleblocker in the setup thats not going to be known to us until a massclaim. As far as scum being forced to claim day 1 I don't think it's a terrible claim, it's also a pr versus vt so we are less likely to actually lynch him.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

Try L2. See the vote count above.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: jake

This was L-1

Try L2. See the vote count above.

right 6 to lynch not 5 got it