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[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

It would be pretty bad form to hammer me before all of the people voting for me had had a chance to see my explanation.

[Robz888]

To further clarify, here was my first post after Joseph's claim.

Unvote

And shame on you.

So I clearly accepted the claim.

Here was Awaclus's first post.

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

He followed it up with:

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

and

That depends. If we're sure that Joseph is scum, we can lynch him regardless of his claim, so that the town UB doesn't have to claim.

That's good critical thinking, but I doubt scum!Joseph would claim UB. Claiming any other PR seems better.

Not necessarily. I think the most important aspect of fakeclaiming a PR is that someone will have to counterclaim. Claiming something "safe" wouldn't make that happen, and it might not help him survive without getting lynched either.

Much safer to just claim VT, or a PR and hope that not enough people have that role.

Yeah but then you wouldn't be able to out PRs.

Then I said

Awaclus, are you keeping your vote on Joseph?

and he said

What does it look like?

So I revoted. I thought Awaclus was heavily hinting that he was the real UB.

At that point, I was perfectly fine with people thinking I was the real UB, if they did think that, so I could protect Awaclus.

[Calamitas]

Thanks Calamitas. I understood it correctly then, but it was nice to get a clarification. So in the case of none of them having a great narrative, which one is the most likely?

I think that is 4 voting for Robz: faust, TWM, EFHW, gkrieg

The one he outlined just yet

[Roadrunner7671]

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much. Is this scummy? No. But I do think one of those three are scum and EFHW isn't in my lynch pool, so lynching Robz isn't the worst. I'm also going to intend to hammer, but keep in mind that I have no spine.

[Robz888]

I am a Vanilla Townie.

[gkrieg13]

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

[Robz888]

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

Again, take a look at what happened. I unvoted Joseph immediately and accepted his claim until Awaclus said a number of highly suggestive things and confirmed that he would not be moving his vote. I thought there was one way to read that.

[Awaclus]

Wow, okay. I'm caught up. I think you guys (Robz, EFHW, Awaclus) are reading between the lines too much.

You are reading between the lines too little.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So when did the consensus move from looking like Joseph was a possible lynch to becoming not a lynch? I feel like Robz's posts or reaction at that point might be worth looking at.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

From my perspective this is where I feel like the pendulum started going the other direction and momentum away from Joseph started.

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Along with other posts from Calamitas and EFHW.

I had thought people had unvoted at this stage (including myself) but I guess that never occurred. So maybe I was imagining the consensus moving more than it actually did.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And this is Robz's one post between that time and when faust started to vote for him and sent the Robz wagon snowballing (at that point Robz does point at Awaclus, but only after heavy voting). I had thought if the consensus had been more apparent this would have been the time that Robz should have called for Awaclus to claim if he felt that Awaclus was the UB. But he didn't, but I am not sure if that is because Robz didn't feel that way or if because he didn't want to.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

This is my third game and all three have been with both Jake and RR. In the previous two, they both seemed really scummy and they were both town.

Maybe my perspective is warped because my first experience with Jake was in 87, where he acted just as crazy has he's acted in every subsequent game, and he was scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (6): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
Awaclus (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Intent to hammer at some point in the future. Time to claim.

Can we please not hammer at least until like 6pm forum time so I can get off work and catch up. We have like 4 days till deadline my gosh people.

Also I thought I already did but unvote

[EFHW]

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

[Robz888]

I mostly believe Robz and Awaclus. Don't want to unvote at this point, tho.

That's fine. I enjoy living dangerously.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I feel like if robz was town he would be looking for scum not targeting one person who is a claimed Pr. Because of robz's reactions I now believe Joseph's claim.

[Robz888]

The lack of unvotes for me is deafening.

[faust]

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

[faust]

The lack of unvotes for me is deafening.

Also, how can a lack of something be deafening?

[Robz888]

It's a joke of sorts. There's an expression "the silence is deafening"

[Joseph2302]

I'm busy for the next 1-2 days, so limited posting/forum mafia time.

I don't want to hammer right now, although I'm not seeing a town!Robz here.
Although I'm not sure I've played with him enough to be sure.

[Robz888]

I'm busy for the next 1-2 days, so limited posting/forum mafia time.

I don't want to hammer right now, although I'm not seeing a town!Robz here.
Although I'm not sure I've played with him enough to be sure.

Can you walk me thru what, exactly, in my explanation, rings false to you?

[Robz888]

People in this game falling into four broad groups:

-- People who are voting for me and have really not thought things through
-- Scum who realize that but are hoping I get mislynched before they have to say anything
-- People who are lurking hardcore
-- People who are Calamitas

[faust]

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

[faust]

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.