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[kru5h]

I think I'm going to change Hounds to the 4-cost version. (Trashing option, +1 coin instead of Buy, +1 Card instead of 2.)

To get rid of some of the excess trashing among my cards, I'm going to change Accomplice.



A village that also trashes? So powerful. Instead I'll change it to discard. Feels slightly weak at 5, but too strong for 4. I'll think on it.

Edit: Ooh, I just got a good idea. "If it's an Accomplice or an Attack card, put it into your hand. Otherwise you may discard it."



I need to change this to "At any time during your turns" instead of "At the start of each of your turns." Otherwise it's a bit weak. This will also allow you to do interesting things during discard attacks. Especially Pillage.

Edit: Never mind. I like the 3-cost Hounds and Accomplice the way it is. I will reword Cell, though.

[loneXolf]

To get rid of some of the excess trashing among my cards, I'm going to change Accomplice.



A village that also trashes? So powerful. Instead I'll change it to discard. Feels slightly weak at 5, but too strong for 4. I'll think on it.

Edit: Ooh, I just got a good idea. "If it's an Accomplice or an Attack card, put it into your hand. Otherwise you may discard it."

I think Accomplice would maybe be fine at 4 cost without the trashing effect, since it would look like a weaker Herald but as an village. Also adding the attack card part would fit the flavor of the name, however it sorta already seemed to be pushing it at the cost of 4 without it. I don't know, weird card to balance it's a spin on Herald, however Herald almost always has the risk of being a vanilla cantrip, but villages have pretty decent value on their own.

[loneXolf]

I need to change this to "At any time during your turns" instead of "At the start of each of your turns." Otherwise it's a bit weak. This will also allow you to do interesting things during discard attacks. Especially Pillage.

Do you mean to change it's text to "At anytime"? Because cell will not do anything against attacks if you cannot use it out of your turn.

[kru5h]

I need to change this to "At any time during your turns" instead of "At the start of each of your turns." Otherwise it's a bit weak. This will also allow you to do interesting things during discard attacks. Especially Pillage.

Do you mean to change it's text to "At anytime"? Because cell will not do anything against attacks if you cannot use it out of your turn.

Oh, right. Wasn't thinking.

Now I have to decide which version I like. Is there any way to abuse swapping cards on another player's turn?

It's probably just simpler to keep it as only "your turns" to avoid confusion.

[ThetaSigma12]

Re cell: I'd use the wording "During your turn". It's not official but I've used it on several other fan cards.

A general suggestion: Wait a bit before you post a card. I've made this mistake a lot. Often you think up a card randomly you think is amazing, and then next day you hate it. Waiting and thinking could cut down on the clutter.

[kru5h]

I modified Locksmith to this:

Locksmith Action - Duration,
+2 Cards
You may treat any other duration cards you have in play as if this is
the start of your next turn. (And your other turns are the next such turn.)
At the start of your next turn,
+1 Cards

Also seriously considering this:

Locksmith Action - Duration,
Now and at the start of your next turn,
+3 Cards then discard 2 cards.
You may treat another duration card you have in play as if this is
the start of your next turn. (And your other turns are the next such turn.)

Edit: Hmm. I like the top version.

[kru5h]

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck.
Choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or
+
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player cannot play any other Attack cards this turn.

[loneXolf]

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck.
Choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or
+
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player cannot play any other Attack cards this turn.

+2 Coins is quite strong for a two cost, since there are way better 5 cost non-terminal cards for a 5/2 split than a 4/3 split. Also I see this card being fairly weak in a lot of cards since most of the time you will only play one attack per turn if any.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I think the top is good. I don't like the bottom. I'd recommend "When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by any attacks after this one until you next turn."
Still a good defence against toturer, rabble or familiar stacks, etc.

[Mr Anderson]

I think the top is good. I don't like the bottom. I'd recommend "When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by any attacks after this one until you next turn."
Still a good defence against toturer, rabble or familiar stacks, etc.

But that would not be any different from Moat. Maybe if you discarded it to gain some benefit. Gaining an Attack card is the first thing that comes to my mind, not saying it would be balanced.

[kru5h]

I just realized that Witness leads to a contradiction. It says you can't play attack cards. Golem and Herald say to play a card. Which one wins?

Here's my updated version.

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck.
Choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or
+
---
When another player plays an Attack card while they have another Attack card in play, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player gets +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.

Doesn't really affect Urchin or Pillage.

Strongest against Goons, Cultist, Torturer, and Scrying Pool.

Trying to figure out how to word this for Relic...

Or I could do the opposite. Penalize the first play of an attack card.

The first time another player plays an Attack card this turn, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player gets +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.

This might just make people buy more attack cards, though. Since now they can't collide.

[GendoIkari]

I just realized that Witness leads to a contradiction. It says you can't play attack cards. Golem and Herald say to play a card. Which one wins?.

I would have agreed with you a couple weeks ago, in fact I'm usually the first one to point this out when people make "you can't play" cards. But after Donald's comments on a recent rules thread about that issue, it's seems to me that he was fine with the "can't beats can" rule like MTG has. He didn't come right out and make such a rule, but he did say that that's how Black Market and Mission interact, and I take it as a canonical example that "can't" effects aren't automatically bad (though still preferable to avoid them if there's a simple alternate wording). Thread here.

[kru5h]

The question is how this works with Relic:

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck.
Choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or
+
---
When another player plays an Attack card while they have another Attack card in play, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player gets +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.

Does the from Relic count as Instructions? Or just the "When you play this" part?

It's also slightly strange for a Treasure to give you +1 Card, +1 Action.

Edit: I looked up a ruling on Enchantress played before Crown, so there's precedent for a treasure giving you +1 Card, +1 Action. It still doesn't answer the question of whether the 2 coin counts as "instructions" or is just part of the card.

Edit: I'm going to argue that the 2 coin from Relic is an "instruction" and that you don't get it. I made this decision because many treasures have worth that is determined by their instructions (Fool's Gold, Philosopher's Stone, Charm, Fortune, Bank.)

[GendoIkari]

The question is how this works with Relic:

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck.
Choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or
+
---
When another player plays an Attack card while they have another Attack card in play, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, that player gets +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.

Does the from Relic count as Instructions? Or just the "When you play this" part?

It's also slightly strange for a Treasure to give you +1 Card, +1 Action.

Edit: I looked up a ruling on Enchantress played before Crown, so there's precedent for a treasure giving you +1 Card, +1 Action. It still doesn't answer the question of whether the 2 coin counts as "instructions" or is just part of the card.

Edit: I'm going to argue that the 2 coin from Relic is an "instruction" and that you don't get it. I made this decision because many treasures have worth that is determined by their instructions (Fool's Gold, Philosopher's Stone, Charm, Fortune, Bank.)

Pretty sure you're right. The fact that the $2 is separate from the "when you play this" is simply asthetics to make the treasures look more like actual treasures. The rules for them should be the same as the rules for playing an action that gives money.

[loneXolf]

I just realized that Witness leads to a contradiction. It says you can't play attack cards. Golem and Herald say to play a card. Which one wins?.

I would have agreed with you a couple weeks ago, in fact I'm usually the first one to point this out when people make "you can't play" cards. But after Donald's comments on a recent rules thread about that issue, it's seems to me that he was fine with the "can't beats can" rule like MTG has. He didn't come right out and make such a rule, but he did say that that's how Black Market and Mission interact, and I take it as a canonical example that "can't" effects aren't automatically bad (though still preferable to avoid them if there's a simple alternate wording). Thread here.

In most games the "Can't" effect wins however not sure how it would work in dominion.

[ThetaSigma12]

Hey, sorry for the hiatus, busy celebrating thanksgiving. Here's a few images changed per your request:


This wasn't changed but didn't seem to be added to the OP:

I changed the art on this one so I could use it elsewhere:

Here's a few I changed the art/name based on my preference, in case you wanted them:

[kru5h]

Made some drastic word changes to Campus and Witness. Changed cost of Pupil to 2 so it is more likely to actually empty.

Pupil/Campus Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Pupil on top, then 6 copies of Campus.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Pupil Action,
Play this as if it were an Action card in the Supply costing up to .
This is that card until it leaves play.
---
When you discard this from play, trash it.

Campus Victory,
When scoring, choose one:
Count this as if it were a copy of a card from your deck costing less than this;
or count this as a copy of the top card of a Supply pile that you choose.
This is that card card until scoring is complete.

You can now score Campus as any cheaper card in your deck OR the top card from a supply pile. That should give it slightly more utility.

Witness Action - Reaction,
Look at the top card of your deck, then choose one:
+1 Card and +1 Action; or +
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand to change the next Attack played this turn to
+1 Card and +1 Action instead of its instructions.

I drastically shortened the wording here. Note that it only changes the next attack, but you can keep revealing Witness every attack to keep affecting the next one. Only the first attack of a turn hurts you. I changed "Attack card" to "Attack" so that if they Throne room an attack card it avoids confusion. The second attack may not be an attack "card" since the card is already in play, but it's still an attack, so Witness can stop it.

[kru5h]

I should probably change this to a 4-cost. Thoughts?



Edit: I should probably change the wording.

"If this is the first time you played this this turn, you may spend an action to play it again."

That's a lot of "this".

[AdrianHealey]

That shpuld absolutely be 4.

[loneXolf]

I should probably change this to a 4-cost. Thoughts?



Edit: I should probably change the wording.

"If this is the first time you played this this turn, you may spend an action to play it again."

That's a lot of "this".

Yeah this should cost 4 at least since this is pretty much "Mega Courtyard". It's second effect seems pretty strong with villages however without muit-action cards it can even be better than smithy in some cases.

[tristan]

Village and Smithy is equivalent to 2 Labs.
Village and Cipher is (sometimes) +3 Cards, discard 1 Card, +3 Cards, discard 1 Card. Kind of a super Embassy. But is it really stronger than a Double Lab?

The problem is that you are out of actions after having played it again (assuming that you start your hand with only one village) so whatever engine pieces you draw are dead. But Cipher for 4 is only viable compared to Smithy if you actually do use its 'play again' effect and in order to do that you need an engine.

So technically the problem is that this card converts two Actions in a huge load of cards. It is a pure draw engine with little room to add in some Action cards that provide extra buys or Attacks (admittedly the discarding is an indirect defense against junkers) or whatever.

This design is too narrow for my taste.

[AdrianHealey]

With champion it is 'draw your deck' btw

[ThetaSigma12]

With champion it is 'draw your deck' btw

Nope.

[AdrianHealey]

Everytime you play it is 'a second time', because every time you play it is a nw first time

[loneXolf]

Village and Smithy is equivalent to 2 Labs.
Village and Cipher is (sometimes) +3 Cards, discard 1 Card, +3 Cards, discard 1 Card. Kind of a super Embassy. But is it really stronger than a Double Lab?

The problem is that you are out of actions after having played it again (assuming that you start your hand with only one village) so whatever engine pieces you draw are dead. But Cipher for 4 is only viable compared to Smithy if you actually do use its 'play again' effect and in order to do that you need an engine.

So technically the problem is that this card converts two Actions in a huge load of cards. It is a pure draw engine with little room to add in some Action cards that provide extra buys or Attacks (admittedly the discarding is an indirect defense against junkers) or whatever.

This design is too narrow for my taste.

Courtyard is better than smithy in some cases. Cipher on the other hand seems like a much more versatile card than smithy and courtyard(clearly). Few random points 1. First you don't need play it a second time after a village you will only really do this if you don't have a better option for said action. 2. Even if you use all of your actions on this card and then draw dead engine pieces you can put one of them on top of your deck so maybe it won't miss a cycle. This effect is also useful for saving any extra golds/silvers. 3. Combos with tunnel. 4. Obviously you can a bit of value from this card when you have left over actions since it's pretty much two better courtyards in one card.