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kru5h

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Kru5h's card ideas
« on: October 19, 2016, 01:56:12 am »
+8

My cards aspire to be the sequel to Intrigue. Lots of choices and duality. I call it Dominion: Conspiracy.

Card images by ThetaSigma12 and myself. Click to enhance.

Rabbits


You play this card and it goes on top of another card, preventing your opponent(s) from gaining cards from that pile until it's gone. It doesn't make players gain a curse, it doesn't even make cards cost more, it just makes the first card of a pile essentially cost two buys (or gains.)

But what if there are no +Buys? This could get quite annoying. Luckily Rabbits has +1 Buy, so there's always a card in the supply to alleviate that. Fight fire with fire, I always say. Of course, Rabbits aren't quite fire. When you fight Rabbits with Rabbits, you get more Rabbits. You didn't remove a Rabbits from the supply, you just moved it to a different supply pile. And now they're in your deck too, essentially functioning as a one-use buy/coin. You can rid them from your deck, but then they just clog the supply board even more. These invasive vermin are everywhere!

You can also put this on the Curse pile and cursing attacks no longer work until that Rabbits is gained. Somebody playing a Jack of All Trades or Trader? Put Rabbits on the Silver pile.

My next idea is about option-duration cards. The idea is simple. You choose between something tempting now, or something better next turn. Here's a simple example.

Bond


A slightly more complicated version of this is a Victory/Duration card that's a good replacement for Great Hall. I know we have Mill now, but I prefer $3 victory cards.

Young Noble


Each of these options by themselves isn't too amazing, but the option value of this card can helps smooth out rough engines. I'd really love to see other people's option-duration card ideas.

Here's one more:

Inventor


A super powerful card that you don't always want to play. If it's in play, you can't buy that super powerful card again. If you choose the stronger option of +4 cards, that's two turns that you can't buy more Inventors. Its power nerfs itself.

Cell


This is pretty much equivalent to playing a permanent Haven.

Sellout


Mulligan


Quote
Fast Track Event,
+1 Buy
If this is your first turn or second turn, gain a Duchy.

Quote
Collection Event,
Once per turn: You may gain a Copper, for +2 Buys.

Okay, I've been working on this card for a while, so here it is:

Quote
Caltrops Action - Attack - Duration,
Until your next turn, when another player plays a duplicate of a card they have in play, they first discard a card.
This can't cause a player to discard more than one card per duplicate played.
At the start of your next turn,
+2 Cards

I like to make hard decisions. Torturer is one of my favorite cards. This card does a lot of things, first of which is to make you make decisions. Do I want to play this card if I have to discard? If so, what do I discard? If not, that's a card I can discard, so what card can I play now? This card also encourages deck variety: If you play no duplicates, it doesn't affect you. It hurts both engines and big money. The better your deck is, the more it hurts you. If the game is a slog, then you will have lots of junk cards to discard anyway and few duplicates to play, so it doesn't over-slog games.

So, how powerful is the attack? Well, first note that multiple copies do not stack. Discarding 2 cards per card played would be ridiculous. I estimate that a good engine will play 6-8 duplicates per turn when drawing your whole deck. That's 6-8 cards to discard. That sounds like a lot! Well, that's out of your whole deck. That's equivalent to having 6-8 Curses or other dead cards in your deck, so it's no more powerful than Witch in a four-player game. But you get to choose which cards to discard rather than simply drawing dead cards, so it's not quite as bad. It doesn't punish you until you start playing several cards, so it at least lets you get your turn started. If you have a hand of five coppers, you end up discarding two of them, so it's no more powerful than Militia in the worst case.

Snakes


Kind of a combination of Junk Dealer, Island, and Chapel all in one. The penalty is that you get -1VP at the end of the game (If there are any curses left.) If there are no curses left, this simply lets you clear your deck of all curses (but you still lose the points at the end of the game.) But waiting until all the curses are gone just leaves your deck clogged most of the game.

Also useful in some Gardens/Alt-VP games. You get a streamlined deck at the cost of one VP. Worth it?

Hounds


Of course, you don't have to name one of those types. If you're desperate for an attack or a traveller, you can forgo the bonus and simply dig for that specific card.

Quote
Rare Coin/Beaches Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Rare Coin on top, then 6 copies of Beaches.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Rare Coin Treasure,

When you play this, if there are no Rare Coins left in the supply, +.

Quote
Beaches Victory,
Worth 5 if there are no Beaches left in the supply. Worth 3 otherwise.

Locksmith


Locksmith unlocks your duration bonuses. Get tomorrow's bonuses today! For example, you can play Wharf and get +2 Cards and +1 Buy. Then you play Locksmith to unlock its additional 2 Cards and Buy this turn. (You discard Wharf at the end of this turn.) Turn Caravans into Labs. Turn Caravan Guard into Peddlers. Turn your Merchant Ships into +. Sometimes you don't want to fast forward your duration cards. For example, you want the attack bonus that Swamp Hag gives, but that's okay, it's nice to have the option. For cards like Champion and Outpost, this won't give you anything, but that's okay too; it doesn't mess anything up either. Sometimes there are no other duration cards in the supply, that's also okay because you can play it on itself.

Promotion


A Workshop/Remodel combination. I'm probably going to remove the "onto your deck" part.

Magic Lamp


A Wishing Well/Lab hybrid. You're about 3 times as likely to hit with this as with Wishing Well. Being right more often feels more satisfying.

Accomplice


Ivory Tower


Quote
Dagger Action,
+1 Action
You may trash a card from your hand.
Shuffle this into your deck.

Quickly trash a few cards.

Quote
Cipher Action,
+ 3 Cards
Choose a card from your hand. Either discard it,
or put it onto your deck.

Quote
Scepter Action,
You may choose an Action card from your hand.
Choose one:
Play it twice; or reveal it and gain a copy of it.

Quote
Cobbler Action,
Gain a card costing up to .
If it costs or less, +1 Card and +1 Action.
If it's a Copper, +1 Buy and +.

Quote
Bronze Treasure +

+1 Buy
---
You may overpay for this. For each you overpaid you may trash a Copper from play.

Quote
Lost Coin Action,
+1 Card
+1 Action
+

Return this to the Lost Coin pile.
---
The first time you buy a Lost Coin this turn, choose one: +1 Buy; or gain another Lost Coin.

Quote
Bell Action,
+1 Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck.
You may choose an Action card from them.
Discard the rest. Play that Card.

Quote
Trap Action - Attack - Duration,
+2 Cards
Set aside a card from your hand.
Until your next turn, the first time each other player plays or gains a copy of that card, they gain a Curse.
At the start of your next turn, put the card into your hand.

Quote
Pupil/Campus Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Pupil on top, then 6 copies of Campus.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Pupil Action,
Play this as if it were an Action card in the Supply costing up to that is not a Pupil.
This is that card until it leaves play.
---
When this leaves play, trash it.

Quote
Campus Victory,
When scoring, choose a Victory card from your deck costing less than this.
This is worth double the of that card.
You must choose a different Victory card from your deck for each Campus.

Quote
Angry Mob Action - Attack,
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put a card from your hand onto your deck.
If you do, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand does.
You may discard a card.
If you do, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand does.

Quote
Cooper Action - Reserve,
+2 Cards
+1 Action

Put this on your Tavern Mat.
--
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card.


Edits:
10/19/16: Added Inventor, changed Rabbits to include +$1, changed Cell to be face down.
10/20/16: Added Bronze, changed Inventor so that you can't buy one if you play one, clarified Rabbits text.
10/21/16: Added Caltrops. Added Pupil.
10/22/16: Changed Bronze to "When you gain this or play this" to make it work more smoothly. Changed Bronze so that gaining other Bronze is not optional, so it's no longer a Copper trasher.
10/23/16: Changed Pupil to "up to $6" card to prevent Prince shenanigans. Changed Pupil again. Drastically. Changed Bronze back to letting you trash coppers without gaining. Added Snakes. Added Backup Plan.
10/24/16: Changed Snakes to $2. Added Warriors' Village. Added Dowsing Rod. Added Rare Coin/Beaches split pile. Changed Beaches to 3VP (+2). Added +$2 option to Pupil. Added Ivory Tower. Changed Dowsing Rod so that it doesn't trash anymore.
10/25/16: Added Skipper. Added Promotion. Gave Backup Plan +1 Action. Removed Backup Plan. Changed Dowsing Rod to $2. Added Magic Lamp (version 2).
10/26/16: Added Sťance. Changed Ivory Tower to discard up to 2 cards. Added Rebels. Removed Skipper and changed it to Locksmith. Removed Pupil.
10/27/16: Removed Warriors' Village after playtesting showed that it was too random. Changed Locksmith to work on more than one duration card.
10/28/16: Changed Ivory tower to be simpler in most cases.
10/29/16: Removed Rebels. Changed Ivory Tower.
10/31/16: Added Dagger.
11/1/16: Changed the name of Seance to Accomplice. Changed the name of Dowsing Rod to Hounds.
11/2/16: Added Cipher.
11/6/16: Removed Bronze.
11/11/16: Added Alternative text for Sellout.
11/16/16: Added Scepter.
11/17/16: Added Cobbler. Re-Added Bronze. Changed Ivory Tower to a new version. Added Whispers.
11/18/16: Added Lost Coin.
11/19/16: Added Bell.
11/20/16: Added Trap.
11/21/16: Added Angry Mob.
11/22/16: Added Pupil/Campus (New Version.)
11/27/16: Added Witness.
12/5/16: Removed Whispers.
9/19/17: Edited Angry Mob and Cobbler.
9/23/17: Changed Bronze.
9/24/17: Changed Cipher, Dagger, and Promotion. Added Fast Track and Collection.
10/5/17: Changed Angry Mob.
10/5/17: Added Cooper.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:37:14 am by kru5h »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 02:03:04 am »
+2

I like all of these at first glance.

I might argue there is an argument to be made to be able to remove rabbits all together one way or another.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 02:47:34 am by AdrianHealey »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 02:48:28 am »
0

*I originally added Inventor here, but now I edited it out and added it to my main post.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 03:47:14 am by kru5h »
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 03:17:32 am »
+2

Option durations are an interesting idea but the most innovative thing here is of course Rabbits. I would just slightly buff it via giving it +1 Coin.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 03:43:51 am »
0

Option durations are an interesting idea but the most innovative thing here is of course Rabbits. I would just slightly buff it via giving it +1 Coin.

I've actually been thinking about that for weeks. I've been 50/50 on it going back and forth, but I think I'm finally ready to accept that it needs +$1.

Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 05:11:52 am »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 06:04:37 am »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

It's the last part that is the biggest problem. If there was a self-trashing ability, it would be a great idea. Definitely think it can work.

In slogs, it's horrible though. :p
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 06:12:16 am »
0

One solution
Vould be:

----
When you buy this, you may gain or trash it.
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 02:27:43 pm »
0

The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.
That's definitely a risk. But you only have an incentive to go for Rabbits if players pursue different strategies. In this case you don't view Rabbits as a liability, as quasi-junk, but you are actually happy that you get the Rabbits back from the liberated pile because you wanna use it to ruin your opponent's most valuable pile.
What I would mainly worry about is whether Rabbits totally ruins a pile in alt-VP games (without comfortable extra buys in the Kingdom). One player loads Rabbits upon Provinces while the other loads Rabbits upon Gardens/Vineyard/whatever. Or BM vs engines, one player ruins Gold while the other Rabbit-ifies a crucial engine card like the only Village.

But these are just theoretical considerations; even if the card turns out to be broken it will definitely lead to some interesting games.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 02:29:58 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 02:30:41 pm »
0

The Rabbits mechanic has been suggested and discussed several times before. Not giving an opinion on it really, just letting you know. Welcome!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 03:28:13 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 03:43:13 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).

+3 Cards next turn is what Haunted Woods has. Haunted Woods costs $5 and has an attack to boot. +2 Cards next turn is just awful; a card with such an effect would never be bought on most boards.

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 05:08:51 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).

+3 Cards next turn is what Haunted Woods has. Haunted Woods costs $5 and has an attack to boot. +2 Cards next turn is just awful; a card with such an effect would never be bought on most boards.

Wharf says hi. But your point about Haunted Woods is fair.
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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 05:37:25 pm »
+1

"Mulligan" is my favorite.
Quote
Mulligan -
If you played no cards this turn, discard your hand and +1 Card per card discarded after the first. Return to your action phase.
Personally, I'd add a once per turn, or an extra drawback. That much sifiting is insane. Also I'd chose a different name "Chase" or "Pursuit" seems kinda thematic as you rush through your deck to get that one hand.  So maybe:
Quote
Pursuit -
Once per turn: If you played no cards this turn, discard your hand and +4 Cards. Return to your Action phase.
This seems smoother. I like having the discarding be more like Minion, the extra complexity seems unnecessary. Also, the card was strong enough that only drawing 4 seems good. Thoughts?
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 08:41:18 pm »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

It's the last part that is the biggest problem. If there was a self-trashing ability, it would be a great idea. Definitely think it can work.

In slogs, it's horrible though. :p

With the current wording, you can put it on the curse pile or Ruins pile to prevent people from gaining them and prevent the game from slowing down further.

kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 02:52:29 am »
0

Added Bronze:

Quote
Bronze - Treasure, $2 (20 supply)

$1

+1 buy
---
When you gain this, you may trash a copper from your hand. If you do, you may gain a Bronze.

This is a useful treasure that upgrades your coppers. Good in games with no other +buys or no other way of trashing coppers.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 03:02:47 am by kru5h »
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2016, 03:26:37 am »
+1


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
In general you want whatever you get now and not next turn but terminal draw is the only exception to that, i.e. Haunted Woods sans the attack part would be roughly equal in strength to Smithy.

Your analysis ignores what happens at the current turn. Inventor provides a choice is between a Lab now and 4 Cards at the start of your next turn at the cost of the currently played card being dead.
Now I still think that such a card is too good for 6 as it provides a choice between one of the best 5s, a Lab, and something which is similar in strength to Hunting Grounds, a 6.

Your "+2 Cards at the start of your next turn is a DOUBLE LAB !!! next turn and thus super great" would probably be too weak for 2 or in general too weak at any cost. Sure, it might be bought on some boards with decent village support and no drawing at all but the card is still roughly equal in strength to "+2 Cards".
It's like saying that "+2$ next turn" is a DOUBLE PEDDLER !!! next turn while ignoring that it is dead now and probably too weak to be bought at all (it is worse than Duchess which is rarely taken, even for free).
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 03:30:53 am by tristan »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 03:28:58 am »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
In general you want whatever you get now and not next turn but terminal draw is the only exception to that, i.e. Haunted Woods sans the attack part would be roughly equal in strength to Smithy.

What you did is thus a gross misrepresentation. The choice is between a Lab now and 4 Cards at the start of your next turn at the cost of the currently played card being dead.
Now I still think that such a card is too good for 6 as it provides a choice between one of the best 5s, a Lab, and something which is similar in strength to Hunting Grounds, a 6.

Your "+2 Cards at the start of your next turn" would probably be too weak for 2 or in general too weak at any cost. Sure, it might be bought on some boards with decent village support and no drawing at all but the card is still roughly equal in strength to "+2 Cards".

I agree that it is quite powerful for a 6. I would sometimes pay 7 for it, but I don't quite like it at 7 all the time. It feels like a 6.5 card. I would instantly pick it over Hireling. I don't see it as stronger than Goons, though.

tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 03:38:36 am »
+1

You are of course totally right that 6$ Actions are powerhouses and not problematic if they are slightly overpowered. Goons and Hireling are definitely extremly strong for 6$ but probably a tad too weak for 7$.

I'd say it depends on the Kingdom whether you choose Inventor over Hireling. If you hit 6 early and the game will not be a rush Hireling is probably the better choice.
I'd try twitching the duration part to nerf Inventor slightly , e.g. "+3 Cards, +1 Buy" or something like that.

Bronze is not super exciting but seems balanced. You probably will not mass trash your Coppers as the opportunity cost (1 coin less during the current turn) is too high and the marginal benefit of extras Bronzes is decreasing (unless it is a Peddler game or something like that) ... but hey, it is still a cheap source of non-terminal extra buys.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 03:45:42 am »
0

You are of course totally right that 6$ Actions are powerhouses and not problematic if they are slightly overpowered. Goons and Hireling are definitely extremly strong for 6$ but probably a tad too weak for 7$.

I'd say it depends on the Kingdom whether you choose Inventor over Hireling. If you hit 6 early and the game will not be a rush Hireling is probably the better choice.
I'd try twitching the duration part to nerf Inventor slightly , e.g. "+3 Cards, +1 Buy" or something like that.

I've tried modifying it several times, but nothing clicks for me.

Ideally, it would be choose one:

+2 cards, +1 action now, or +2 cards each turn for your next two turns.

But then there's the tracking issue. Did I already take my two cards last turn or is this the third turn? Archive solves this by setting aside cards, but that would ruin the elegance of this card.

I tried giving other players something cool. "While this is in play, each other player..." but couldn't think of anything original. Each other player draws a card would just be a Council Room copy. I'd still like to do this, though.

+4 cards, discard a card could work, but seems unnatural. Its theme is gaining cards. Discarding one makes it feel against itself.

For now I'm content with it being a powerhouse card and will modify it if I ever think of something creative. I still want to include it in my cards list because the other two option-duration cards are micromanaging (2 actions vs 2 cards or 1 buy vs 1 more money) and I want an option-duration that says that the cards can be powerful too.

tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2016, 03:51:52 am »
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I like "+2 cards, +1 action now, or +2 cards each turn for your next two turns."
It is novel and there are some subtle differences between Archive's immediately setting apart and this version of Inventor.

You could also combine your option duration with market squire's semi-permanent durations. In this instance it could be something like "until another player does XYZ, +2 Cards at the start of your next turn."
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2016, 04:26:07 am »
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How about this:

Quote
Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+4 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
---
While this is in play, you cannot buy an Inventor.

Destry

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2016, 04:51:09 pm »
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So... what happens if I put my Rabbit on the Curse pile? Does that mean my opponent's Witch no longer gives me Curses? Personally, I think that's a feature, not a bug.
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Destry

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2016, 05:01:34 pm »
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I see what you're trying to do with the variable cost on Rabbits - or if not in the Rabbits pile. Just cost it at and avoid the unneeded complexity.
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