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Author Topic: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!  (Read 147383 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #575 on: June 10, 2016, 01:33:25 pm »

So all QTs will be available to be read at the end of the day? That is where the bulk of our information is going to be, hopefully. We could just lynch a lurker, but I know for a fact that Jimmmmm is busy. Awaclus seems okay, but couldn't we do better?

Where do you get that?
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #576 on: June 10, 2016, 01:34:08 pm »

So all QTs will be available to be read at the end of the day?
Where did you get this from?  I don't see why this would be the case.

That is where the bulk of our information is going to be, hopefully. We could just lynch a lurker, but I know for a fact that Jimmmmm is busy. Awaclus seems okay, but couldn't we do better?
Obviously I'm not going to actively support the Awaclus lynch.

Right.  I'm home now.  Gonna start rereading and hopefully do something useful.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

silverspawn

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #577 on: June 10, 2016, 01:34:14 pm »

That would invalidate faust's argument entirely

Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #578 on: June 10, 2016, 01:38:05 pm »

So all QTs will be available to be read at the end of the day? That is where the bulk of our information is going to be, hopefully. We could just lynch a lurker, but I know for a fact that Jimmmmm is busy. Awaclus seems okay, but couldn't we do better?

Where do you get that?

Jimmmm said he was busy before. Or if you mean the QT, EFHW said they'd be available for viewing?
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #579 on: June 10, 2016, 01:38:33 pm »

That would invalidate faust's argument entirely

What would?
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silverspawn

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #580 on: June 10, 2016, 01:44:52 pm »

QT's being shared afterwards. If that is the case, then scum has to pretend anyway, thus revealing them to the speccy is harmless and conveys no information.

Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #581 on: June 10, 2016, 01:47:31 pm »

There's no indication whatsoever that QTs are going to be made public after the day.

EFHW, can you confirm that QTs will/will not be shared?
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #582 on: June 10, 2016, 02:02:45 pm »

Dating QTs will be made available to the speccy

Some other random thought that occurred to me.... do you think EFHW would have done this if there was a dating QT with 2 scum?

That was it. I read speccy as everyone + Faust's beginning of this discussion. And yes, of course EFHW would have done this if it was two scum in a QT. It's a speccy, they can't talk, only watch. I only just now grasped what this question was actually about.
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #583 on: June 10, 2016, 02:02:59 pm »

No, QTs will probably not be shared.
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #584 on: June 10, 2016, 02:03:58 pm »

I feel like I am only now starting this game for some reason.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #585 on: June 10, 2016, 02:11:20 pm »

Awaclus, explain to me why you're town please.

I can give you the answer Awaclus would: "Because I got a PM saying that I'm town."
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #586 on: June 10, 2016, 02:14:30 pm »

I feel like I am only now starting this game for some reason.

Then I suggest you skip RVS ;)
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #587 on: June 10, 2016, 02:32:53 pm »

Gotta reread Haddock.

Still don't like his first real post, the one where he scumreads iguana and ced. He gives a case on iguana, which is not very good. For example, he calls him being analytical scummy and then calls him being emotive scummy in the same post. That just doesn't make any sense. He backs off iguana when more people think he's towny, that's not great.

There is an ADK defense which I'm not sure what to make of. He hedges on Joseph.

FWIW, Awaclus is town.

What was this about?

He defends himself from my accusations, mostly by saying he's not scummy because he's always scummy. I don't know man, how about trying to not be scummy?

His vote for gkrieg looks pretty bad; it's a vote for theory disagreement, these are the worst.

Right, I guess I can get behind this again. Vote: Haddock
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #588 on: June 10, 2016, 02:41:24 pm »

I'm still building a massive reread post.
Meantime, though.
Still don't like his first real post, the one where he scumreads iguana and ced. He gives a case on iguana, which is not very good. For example, he calls him being analytical scummy and then calls him being emotive scummy in the same post. That just doesn't make any sense. He backs off iguana when more people think he's towny, that's not great.
I don't think I have ever called emotive!iguana scummy to my memory.  Which bit are you talking about?  Analytical iguana is scummy.   I back off iguana when iguana starts getting emotive again.

There is an ADK defense which I'm not sure what to make of. He hedges on Joseph.
I reread ADK and found him towny.  I found Joseph scummy based on the 5 posts that someone isolated, then when someone said that those weren't his only posts (as had been claimed originally), I realised I needed to actually reread him.  And then he claimed before I got a chance.


FWIW, Awaclus is town.

What was this about?
Awa had just made a bunch of absolutely classic aggressive and annoying Awaclus posts.  They looked super towny to me. 

He defends himself from my accusations, mostly by saying he's not scummy because he's always scummy. I don't know man, how about trying to not be scummy?

His vote for gkrieg looks pretty bad; it's a vote for theory disagreement, these are the worst.
First bit; eh.  I have defended myself on many fronts.  One of them is by pointing out how people always find my scummy on D1 because I'm hedgy.  I'm doing my best to fix that. 

As for the gkrieg vote: how many times?  It's NOT a theory disagreement!  gkrieg's analysis was wrong, and wrong in a way that indicated a scum perspective.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #589 on: June 10, 2016, 02:52:01 pm »

I don't think I have ever called emotive!iguana scummy to my memory.  Which bit are you talking about?  Analytical iguana is scummy.   I back off iguana when iguana starts getting emotive again.

Gather the wagons.
I want to hear his true motivation for these careless RVS votes. I want to hear something that comes from his heart of hearts.
This is the kind of highly emotive stuff that looks great at first sight and works well for people trying to look towny, but actually means essentially nothing.  Perfect scum chat.

I reread ADK and found him towny.  I found Joseph scummy based on the 5 posts that someone isolated, then when someone said that those weren't his only posts (as had been claimed originally), I realised I needed to actually reread him.  And then he claimed before I got a chance.
Yes, but when you found him scummy the first time, you didn't vote. That's hedging.

As for the gkrieg vote: how many times?  It's NOT a theory disagreement!  gkrieg's analysis was wrong, and wrong in a way that indicated a scum perspective.
If you call his analysis of the situation wrong, then that's a theory disagreement (never said it was impossible that you're the one who's right in this). I don't by the "scum perspective" bit, I think gkrieg could very well post that as town. I mean don't get me wrong, gkrieg's vote on you there is just as bad.
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #590 on: June 10, 2016, 02:56:15 pm »

Gather the wagons.
I want to hear his true motivation for these careless RVS votes. I want to hear something that comes from his heart of hearts.
This is the kind of highly emotive stuff that looks great at first sight and works well for people trying to look towny, but actually means essentially nothing.  Perfect scum chat.
Wow.  Yep.  That was really bad.  Those are not scummy posts for iguana to make.

I reread ADK and found him towny.  I found Joseph scummy based on the 5 posts that someone isolated, then when someone said that those weren't his only posts (as had been claimed originally), I realised I needed to actually reread him.  And then he claimed before I got a chance.
Yes, but when you found him scummy the first time, you didn't vote. That's hedging.
Nope.  I didn't really believe that those were his only posts.  So I held back until I could check that those were indeed the only ones.  And lo and behold, they were not.

As for the gkrieg vote: how many times?  It's NOT a theory disagreement!  gkrieg's analysis was wrong, and wrong in a way that indicated a scum perspective.
If you call his analysis of the situation wrong, then that's a theory disagreement
Right, but I'm not voting him because we disagree.  I'm voting for him because the MANNER in which he was wrong implies a scum perspective.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #591 on: June 10, 2016, 03:04:23 pm »

Awaclus, explain to me why you're town please.

Here are some instances of obvious pro-town play from me:

I want to know why.

Vote: faust

We need to stop leveraging information off mods, feels kind of dirty.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introduction

Overall, my town narrative is waterproof. You can reread me over and over again as many times as you would like, and you won't be able to find a single instance of me saying something that suggests that I know something more than a townie is supposed to know or something that suggests that I would prefer for scum to win the game.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #592 on: June 10, 2016, 03:05:54 pm »

Vote: Awaclus

I just couldn't resist.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #593 on: June 10, 2016, 03:07:45 pm »

Vote: Awaclus

I just couldn't resist.

Vote: faust
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #594 on: June 10, 2016, 03:12:07 pm »

Classic stream-of-consciousness reread coming up.

We start with a bunch of RVS, pretty predictable.  Seprix tries some setup talk with this post:
This game is going to get very meta, by the way. Scum won't want to be together, since if they die, the scumpartner might die as well.
which iguana shuts down straight away.  I think I've come to agree with iguana on that point, that kind of setup chat should be kept to a minimum.  It's largely stuff people can figure out anyway. 
Not sure of the point of this post:
Scum also reads the set-up, as they have to look more proactive as town.
and I don't agree with it.  Reading the setup is not a scumtell and never has been.

Faust kicks straight off with useful contributions, as we've come to expect:
Actually delaying information until the correct time to reveal it is always the best play, and we often do not observe that on this forum.

The guy know his stuff.

For example, I don't think lovers should be revealed unless they would otherwise be lynched. So like, 1 day before deadline (I don't think there will be a majority lynch).

Speed Dating Mafia
you must vote together. 

Does this mean that both players need to be voting for the same person for their votes to count, or that whenever either player votes, it changes the vote for both of the players?
I could interpret this as scum looking for an edge when it comes to vote-control.  But that would probably be a stretch.


So ced could be a GreyICE type.
But he hasn't posted any faux readslists or been overly aggressive. Hmmm.
I don't understand these posts.  Seprix makes a lot of posts I don't think make a lot of sense.  Someone in Fruit Ninja called him "clueless town", and there's something to that.  His recent posts give a good idea of what I mean.  How could you possibly have missed all of that discussion, Seprix?  I got it, and I was hardly around at the time.

RR is a crazy person trying to be normal
Joseph is a normal person trying to be crazy.

I solved it!
SS making the sense, even though this is a joke.

Shortly after, though, faust and silver both vote RR for no explained reason.  It doesn't seem to be an RVS vote either.  I'm not sure I like it.  RR hadn't been anything other than his usual self, up til then.  They could be seeing something I don't see though; I can't read RR lately.

Vote: Roadrunner

vote: faust
Apparently ADK agrees with me.  Townpoints for him.
(OK, so apparently this was some kind of clever plan from faust and silver to foster interaction.  Forget I said anything, I guess)



Then guff about how to spell colour.  I actually think this post
Vote: RR, for turning our QT into an argument about British & American English.

Also, colour is the better way to spell it.

Color is clearly the better way to spell it, and it is also faster to type. I don't know why voting against your own lover has been a thing today, but it's not helping anyone.
would be pretty scummy coming from most people, it looks like an attempt to distract from serious discussion.  But, eh.  It's Seprix, I kinda expect it based on last game.
Silver and Awaclus carry on with it.  Awaclus I expect it from, silver looks a bit scummy for it.

Scum feels pressure to have strong reads, lest they attract suspicion. Casually admitting that you don't have reads is therefore towny.

I might tentatively agree if it wasn't in RVS. My vote was not on RR because he "admitted to not having reads", but for stating the obvious. It's empty posting, and empty posting is not great.

Admitting he doesn't have any reads is less empty than the RVS that keeps happening against all reason.

Vote: Awaclus

It feels so good, it feels so right...

Pulling this game back into RVS is not the way to go, man.
I like this post from ADK.


It's not a random vote. It's voting Awaclus for perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state. I don't think Joseph was scummy for starting it, but I do think that for Awaclus, acting this way is trying to imitate his meta.
I agree with Faust for the majority of this post, except I don't think Awa is imitating here.  I think this is just his meta.

It's not a random vote. It's voting Awaclus for perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state. I don't think Joseph was scummy for starting it, but I do think that for Awaclus, acting this way is trying to imitate his meta.

That's not my meta, that's my personality. I don't have to try to imitate it.

I disagree that your personality would tend towards "perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state." My read on your personality is that you do not participate in discussions in games unless you believe they advance your win-con.

Am I wrong?

I also disagree that you've said anything that looks like "trying to imitate your meta," except possibly this last post.
Agree with iguana entirely here.

Speaking of which, I wasn't expecting you to overtly show suspicion of silverspawn, especially not after I've called you on it. I'm interested in what exactly brought you to say what you did in e.g. #134 (i.e. that you think the second vote is worse than the first).

It's kinda a mafia "common wisdom" that the second vote is scummier than the first, as in it's easier to hop on a wagon than to create one. By such logic, ADK should be voting for silver over me. He's not, and I want to know why.
Faust is COMPLETELY wrong here.  The common wisdom doesn't apply at all in a game where two people's votes are tied together.  In this instance, silver's vote following faust is in fact less scummy than faust's original vote.  I do not expect someone like faust to miss something like that.  Then again, this:
I do not at all agree with the faust case. The initial vote seems like something town!faust does. And this:

See, here's the disconnect: you're suspicious of ADK for going for you over silverspawn, because you believe silver's second vote is scummier than yours. Yet you aren't suspicious of silverspawn for said vote in the first place. It all feels very "why me?", like you were hoping for silver to catch more flak for his vote than he did.

That would be legit if the context was different. But fact is that faust's original post was in response to ADK's logic:

Also, if I know it's a bad vote, then why would I place it as scum?

You should know it's a bad vote, then.

And silverspawn's vote is bad too but you made yours first.

I don't get what you're trying to say with that first sentence.

And does that mean that the second vote is better than the first? I always thought it was the other way around. Maybe I've been gone for too long.

And then he only said this:


It's kinda a mafia "common wisdom" that the second vote is scummier than the first, as in it's easier to hop on a wagon than to create one. By such logic, ADK should be voting for silver over me. He's not, and I want to know why.

after you asked him on it specifically. So it only feels "why me" because you manipulated in this way, which by the way is a really scummy thing to do. vote: ced
is a pretty good point to counter that argument.


Voting for reactions is scummy at most points in the game. It's not scummy when you're still in RVS.

I know that you do it and have seen you do it (as town) and am comfortable with that. I just think that from Faust it feels more forced/contrived/what have you and he does seem off here.

It's not like this Faust wagon is the end all be all of this day (That would be pretty stupid, putting a wagon on a strong player and then just killing him 10 pages into the game before we look at anyone else) but putting pressure here is a good thing. Now we have a wagon to analyze.

Request Vote Count BTWs

I do join you in expressing skepticism toward my speed dating partner, though. I have been feeling the ever-so-slightest tinges of buddying from him.
I DO NOT LIKE this post.

 
Jimmm still popping in from time to time, nothing to say there.

Ok going to reread everything, didn't get to RVS, so vote: Witherweaver
is scummy.
But he then makes some good reread posts, so eh. 

This:
That was one major setup for a townslip   ::)
is a big old ball of WIFOM.  I'm actually not sure whether town!faust is more likely to make this post naturally or scum!faust make it for WIFOM purposes.



One thing I've learned from playing a lot of town games is that scum loves to scumread me...
Huh.  I sympathise with this.

So I could go back to Awaclus, but that doesn't really do anything to advance the game state, now does it? I feel like Seprix has been somewhat scummy so far. Let's vote: Seprix and see if I can back that feeling up somehow.
Ewwwwwwww.  This is not the faust I know.
He doesn't stick to it though.  So, OK.

Then faust and Awaclus have a big old argument, which looks pretty townclashy to me. 

Seprix, ADK and faust have some argument which looks towny from all of them.

So, iguana responds to my case on him.  His response is decent, but I don't like the inconsistency between the first and last sentences of his post.
Oh hai Haddock. We have some misunderstandings with each other here. Let's deal with them.

...

Are you and ced both scum then, and in which order ought we kill you?
"Misunderstanding" implies that he thinks I'm town and wants to sort out some disagreement.  The last sentence is a blatant attempt to paint me (and ced? Huh?) as scummy.  I could see the wording of the first sentence arising as a result of his knowing I'm town.

vote: iguana

Vote: iguana

Even more terrible, terrible votes. If you're playing like Awaclus, you're playing like scum.

I mean, my reaction to Haddock was pretty terrible. I could see how someone would read it and think that it came from scum.
This is a towny post for igu.


Faust and Awaclus have more arguments.  Still looking townclashy.

Oh hey, I like this Joseph wagon.

Vote: Joseph2302

Let's see where it goes.
Now we know Joseph is likely town, this looks scummy.

I quite like ced's read post, even though I disagree with him about Seprix.

Seprix's posts 450-452 are pretty decent, actually.  Better than his usual stuff.  But then he is very very wrong about faust's question.  And vocal about it.  Actually scum probably isn't that vocal about it. 


RR, stop the RVS.
Stop the buddying with obvious! scum!

We, as a town, will not take this! I'm going to make big deals with scum! And by big deals, I mean I will crush them like the Marauder crushed the Library!
I could paint this as RR trying to imitate his meta.  Maybe.  But the rest of his game has been very natural.  Still think he's town.

I've commented already about most of the recent stuff.


This is going to be a very long post I expect.  I'll summarise the current state of my reads in the next post.  But the one thing I wanted to say here:
Faust actually doesn't come off as towny overall as I expected that he would.  But the townslip feels natural, so he's still town.

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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #595 on: June 10, 2016, 03:12:47 pm »

Overall, my town narrative is waterproof. You can reread me over and over again as many times as you would like, and you won't be able to find a single instance of me saying something that suggests that I know something more than a townie is supposed to know or something that suggests that I would prefer for scum to win the game.

vote: Awaclus
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #596 on: June 10, 2016, 03:13:11 pm »

Maybe if we keep lynching him D1, he'll change his playstyle to something that is pro-town.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #597 on: June 10, 2016, 03:14:57 pm »

Maybe if we keep lynching him D1, he'll change his playstyle to something that is pro-town.

It is already incredibly pro-town.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #598 on: June 10, 2016, 03:22:03 pm »

So, summary of my reads:

People I would like to lynch:
iguana (some posts that read like his town meta but also lots of scummy things)
gkrieg (I stand by my stance on his recent slip.  And he's not done anything towny except his reads list)

People I could lynch:
ced (Many questions, and fair enough if that's his style, but he hasn't been super towny in general)
Jimmm (lurker)

People I probably wouldn't want to lynch:
ADK (towny in general)
Seprix (lots of idiotic posts that make no sense, but I've come to expect that)
silver (makes a lot of sense, which is a nulltell for him but he's handy to have around as a result)

People I definitely wouldn't want to lynch:
Joseph, RR, faust, Awaclus.  All for fairly obvious reasons.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #599 on: June 10, 2016, 03:22:51 pm »

Maybe if we keep lynching him D1, he'll change his playstyle to something that is pro-town.

It is already incredibly pro-town.

Oh, yeah, sure, that must be why you're having such a solid 37% winrate as town.
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