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[gkrieg13]

Welcome to RMM33: Heroes Mafia by gkrieg13.

This game is for 13-players, and is an invented, closed setup designed by gkrieg13.

Co-mod:

Sign ups are open.

1. RoadRunner7671 - killed N1 Peter Petrelli, The Good Brother
2. JReggie - Lynched D4 Noah Bennet, The Company Man
3. Cellovix
4. silverspawn - killed N3 Nikki/Jessica, Psychotic Dual-Personality
5. Chairs EFHW - killed N5 Mohinder Suresh, the Scientist
6. Faust
7. Seprix - killed N2 Hiro Nakamura, The Master of Time and Space
8. fontisian - lynched D2 The Haitian, The Silent Ability-Blocker
9. Jan - lynched D1 Maurie Parkman, The Mind Bender
10. iguanaiguana
11. Cron - killed N2 Matt Parkman, the Mind-Reading Detective
12. Haddock - lynched D5 Adam Monroe, the Evil Hero
13. teamlyle - killed N4 Ando, the Vanillaized Sidekick

Tags: ashersky, e, pacovf, EFHW, SirMartin

Game State Tracker:
D1 start || D1 end
D2 start || D2 end
D3 start || D3 end
D4 start || D4 end
D5 start || D5 end
D6 start || D6 end

Rule set has been taken from ashersky, but standard rule 4 is my own
The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by your role QT.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well
5. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
6. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
7. Players must post once every 24 hours.
8. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
9. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
10. Cryptography is not allowed.
11. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
12. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
13. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or fewer players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, green text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please write to the Mod in your role QT. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently, especially because I am a new mod. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via your role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last ten IRL days.
2. Day action phase submission deadline will be any time before a lynch is reached, or before the day ends, whichever comes first.
3. Nights will last two IRL days.
4. Nigh action phase submission deadline will be 36 hours after the night begins.

[gkrieg13]

Setup Post:

Many of the roles in this game are invented by me.  I'll keep adding to this post as I think of new things everyone needs to know while the game is ongoing.

All players will be given role QTs and all communications with the mod should be made in those role QTs.

1. Actions
  - There will be day phases and night phases.  Certain actions will be day actions, others will be night actions.  Pay attention to these deadlines, because they will be strict.

2. Time Travel
  - At least one role in this game has time travel components.  This will work the same as it did in Buffy/Angel mafia, so I stole the following from faust. A player with a Time Travel power may choose to travel to a different game phase to perform their action, if any. After carrying out their action (if applicable), they return to the current game phase.

  - It is not possible for players with Time Travel powers to have their action manipulated by being targeted in the game phase they travel to, only by being targeted in the current game phase. (e.g. if in N3, a Time Travelling Vigilante travels to D1 to perform a kill, a Roleblocker targeting them during D1 will not be able to stop the kill) If a player with a Time Travel power travels to a Day phase, their action will automatically resolve after all other actions of that Day phase.

  - It is not possible that Time Travel powers change vote counts in any way, even if the player who hammered is now already dead. At the end of each game phase, all game phases in the “past” will be re-evaluated and the game state will be adjusted to account for these actions, beginning with N0.

3. Resurrection
  - Due to the mechanics of this game, it is fully possible for players to come back from the dead.  Dead players will not have access to the speccy, unless they choose to opt out of possibly being resurrected.  If the chance for resurrection or other interaction with the game drops to zero, I will give them the speccy link.

4. Action Resolution Chain
  - All actions that are resolved at the same time, in particular night actions, will be resolved according to the following protocol:

  1. Find an action (or a passive modifier) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
  2. Resolve it.
  3. Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

  - In case of conflicting night actions, order of resolution is determined by the kind of action performed in the following way:

  1. Commute
  2. Block
  3. Time Travel
  4. Copy
  5. Redirect
  6. Protect
  7. Kill
  8. Miscellaneous
  9. Inspect

  - If you are unsure in which category your night action falls, please ask in your Role QT. In case of conflicting night actions of the same type, the following protocol is applied:

  1. Actions by town-aligned players are resolved first.
  2. If 1 doesn't apply, the action submitted first will be resolved first.

5. Miscellaneous
  - The win condition for town is as follows:

You win when all the threats to the town have been defeated and there is at least one town member alive.

[gkrieg13]

Flavor Post:

Setting

 - This game will be set in different time periods from the shows Heroes and its sequel, Heroes: Reborn.  Some events from the seasons will have happened, and some won't have happened. 

Flavor and Flavor Names

 - Flavor is not important in this game.  It will be written by me, but will generally be short and doesn't have any effect on the game.  Knowledge of the show is also unnecessary, but it will help.

 - Flavor names are not given randomly, but fake claims will be given to those who need them.

[gkrieg13]

reserved

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

[yuma]

/in

[Awaclus]

/in

[iguanaiguana]

What sort of heroes?

[gkrieg13]

What sort of heroes?

It's the TV show with Evos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_(TV_series)

[ashersky]

/tag

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[silverspawn]

/in

[pacovf]

/tag

[chairs]

/in

[Haddock]

Sorry but I'm not going to sign up for this.  I've played too much RMM lately.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry but I'm not going to sign up for this.  I've played too much RMM lately.

That's fine, I understand. People will fill up this game eventually, and I wouldn't be able to start it for another week anyway

[faust]

I've decided that my mafia break ends whenever this fills up.

/in

[gkrieg13]

I've decided that my mafia break ends whenever this fills up.

/in

Yay!!!!!!11!1!1!!1

[gkrieg13]

Bump.

Are people not signing up for this because they are busy?

Is it the mod?

Is it the setup?

Is it that it's RMM?

Is it because they are afraid to walk outside for fear of tiger ambush?

[2.71828.....]

Tiger ambush

[iguanaiguana]

Bump.

Are people not signing up for this because they are busy?

Is it the mod?

Is it the setup?

Is it that it's RMM?

Is it because they are afraid to walk outside for fear of tiger ambush?

I'm just already signed up for two games.

[faust]

Bump.

Are people not signing up for this because they are busy?

Is it the mod?

Is it the setup?

Is it that it's RMM?

Is it because they are afraid to walk outside for fear of tiger ambush?

It's probably that nobody wants me to return to forum mafia.

[pacovf]

Bump.

Are people not signing up for this because they are busy?

Is it the mod?

Is it the setup?

Is it that it's RMM?

Is it because they are afraid to walk outside for fear of tiger ambush?

It's probably that nobody wants me to return to forum mafia.

Oh my, I thought I was being subtle.

[silverspawn]

For a moment when I saw you had the last post I thinking you /in'd 

[chairs]

I'd /in but I'm already /in.

[gkrieg13]

Bump

[Seprix]

I should /in here. I'm going to be busy as heck, but why not?

[gkrieg13]

Role PMs are written and ready for when this fills up.

[faust]

I want this to start. Make this start!

[pacovf]

I might join this, depending on when it starts and how it lines up with work. Still, this is nowhere close to being full yet.

[gkrieg13]

I might join this, depending on when it starts and how it lines up with work. Still, this is nowhere close to being full yet.

It would be one step closer to filling if you say the magical symbol + 2-letter combination!

[gkrieg13]

People should also be signing up for this game.

[ashersky]

This game needs to fill.  I looked it over and helped gkrieg finalize the setup -- I can't wait to spectate!

[gkrieg13]

This game needs to fill.  I looked it over and helped gkrieg finalize the setup -- I can't wait to spectate!

Thanks again for looking over it and helping me add the final tweaks!

We have 7 spots left for 7 very lucky people!

[gkrieg13]

Ok here is a list of people who should join:

e
Witherweaver
Teproc
Jimmmm
liopoil
JReggie
Haddock
Hydrad
ADK
PPS
EFHW

So that is more than 7 people, so you should sign up fast so your spot isn't taken!

[J Reggie]

I don't really have time to join this game, since I'm already signed up for 2 upcoming games, but I'll certainly /tag.

[Roadrunner7671]

Gkrieg is calling people out by name. Is he desperate or trying to public shame these people?

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg is calling people out by name. Is he desperate or trying to public shame these people?

Desperate...

[Seprix]

/in, but I think I am already in?

[gkrieg13]

/in, but I think I am already in?

Unfortunately...  For some reason I really want this game to fill. I definitely want it to fill before school starts up again

[Seprix]

Well, clearly you're biased about wanting to fill it up since you made this game.

[ashersky]

This game  needs to fill!

[J Reggie]

Well, since City Hall isn't happening anytime soon, /in. I was a bit wary of the time commitment of this game, but I can deal with it.

[faust]

Well, since City Hall isn't happening anytime soon, /in. I was a bit wary of the time commitment of this game, but I can deal with it.

Great! If you get K Reggie to P Reggie to sign up as well, we can get this started!

[gkrieg13]

Well, since City Hall isn't happening anytime soon, /in. I was a bit wary of the time commitment of this game, but I can deal with it.

I can't imagine that this game has a bigger time commitment than any other game.  You might have to think during the night, but if you are a town PR, it can't be any more time than when you are mafia in a normal game.

[fontisian]

/in

[gkrieg13]

/in

Good to have you!

[Jan]

I got told that being a part of this game is a good thing.

I also tried wearing purple today .. it feels rather energizing.

[gkrieg13]

I got told that being a part of this game is a good thing.

I also tried wearing purple today .. it feels rather energizing.

I'm guessing that means /in and that you know something of the flavor?

[Jan]

I got told that being a part of this game is a good thing.

I also tried wearing purple today .. it feels rather energizing.

I'm guessing that means /in and that you know something of the flavor?

Yes and I have watched normal heroes once (well the first season 2-3 or three times maybe) and a few episodes of reborn.

Might watch the rest of reborn just because i joined this game.
Expect me to know most characters and their abilities.

[gkrieg13]

I got told that being a part of this game is a good thing.

I also tried wearing purple today .. it feels rather energizing.

I'm guessing that means /in and that you know something of the flavor?

Yes and I have watched normal heroes once (well the first season 2-3 or three times maybe) and a few episodes of reborn.

Might watch the rest of reborn just because i joined this game.
Expect me to know most characters and their abilities.

Sweet!  I'm excited to have you!

[Jan]

Similar to the last game. If we need like 1 or 2 players, I can ask friends or reliable people from our champs game.

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once, but just let me know if you don't want to wait for sign ups.

[Seprix]

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once

I'm sure Theory would not mind at all.

[Roadrunner7671]

Similar to the last game. If we need like 1 or 2 players, I can ask friends or reliable people from our champs game.

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once, but just let me know if you don't want to wait for sign ups.

What? We love new people!

[J Reggie]

Similar to the last game. If we need like 1 or 2 players, I can ask friends or reliable people from our champs game.

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once, but just let me know if you don't want to wait for sign ups.

What? We love new people!

Yeah, you should get some of your less-tame-than-you friends to play!

[Roadrunner7671]

Similar to the last game. If we need like 1 or 2 players, I can ask friends or reliable people from our champs game.

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once, but just let me know if you don't want to wait for sign ups.

What? We love new people!

Yeah, you should get some of your less-tame-than-you friends to play!

I'm having a Dominion social event tomorrow, I might make a halfhearted effort.

[Seprix]

What if they become cold?

[Jan]

All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.

shouldnt that be either night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of night ending

or

day actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending ?

48 hours nighttime does not make a lot of sense when you have to put in the nightactions during the day. :X
Just sayin!

[Awaclus]

All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.

shouldnt that be either night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of night ending

or

day actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending ?

48 hours nighttime does not make a lot of sense when you have to put in the nightactions during the day. :X
Just sayin!

Day ending, not day starting.

[gkrieg13]

All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.

shouldnt that be either night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of night ending

or

day actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending ?

48 hours nighttime does not make a lot of sense when you have to put in the nightactions during the day. :X
Just sayin!

I'm pretty sure it makes sense.  I guess it could say night actions must be submitted within 24 hours after the day ends, but that seems clunkier and not that much clearer.

[gkrieg13]

Similar to the last game. If we need like 1 or 2 players, I can ask friends or reliable people from our champs game.

Don't want to crowd your forum with too many new people at once, but just let me know if you don't want to wait for sign ups.

I would say not yet.  I think there are still four people on this forum already that haven't signed up for this game that aren't currently in a game and will end up signing up.  If in a couple of days this still isn't full, I'll have you get some people.

[Jan]

All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.

shouldnt that be either night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of night ending

or

day actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending ?

48 hours nighttime does not make a lot of sense when you have to put in the nightactions during the day. :X
Just sayin!

Day ending, not day starting.

Oh woops .. just odd choice of words you are right.

Look it is almost 10 pm here, i should be in bed for at least 3 hours.

[iguanaiguana]

/in

[gkrieg13]

/in

WOOHOO!

[iguanaiguana]

Don't make me scum please 

[gkrieg13]

Don't make me scum please 

We'll see...

pray to the random.org gods.

[silverspawn]

random.org's results are based on atmospheric noise. Maybe if you're loud enough, you can influence it.

[Seprix]

random.org's results are based on atmospheric noise. Maybe if you're loud enough, you can influence it.

Pollution for the win

[gkrieg13]

Ok I have prepared absolutely everything.  Even the QTs are made and ready.  So we just need to have this game fill up.

[gkrieg13]

So if this isn't full by tomorrow, I will ask Jan to get some people to fill the remaining spots.

[gkrieg13]

Ok if anyone wants to invite people from offsite feel free to do so. I kinda want this to start.

[Jan]

May the prodding begin.

[Jan]

that awkward moment where you realize that ~7 people you would have asked are playing in the wildcard champs game.

got damn you thingyman.

[gkrieg13]

that awkward moment where you realize that ~7 people you would have asked are playing in the wildcard champs game.

got damn you thingyman.

Just make sure they get lynched really fast.

[Cron]

/in

[J Reggie]

/in

Be sure you make a post outside of the forum games do that you can stop the bot protection.

[silverspawn]

Only if you are not a bot, though. If you are, keep it.

[J Reggie]

Only if you are not a bot, though. If you are, keep it.

Hey, there's an idea if we ever need some games to fill up quickly. Write a bot to play mafia!

[Jan]

1 down.

and yes i told him about the post and that he should please create some sort of signature. :X

[silverspawn]

Maybe his sensors haven't been properly installed.

[gkrieg13]

/in

Sweet!  Great to have you!

[Jan]

another friend is out of town at the moment. would likely join when he is back (around tuesday).

For cron and fonti i am talking about dLGN.

Don't hold a spot for him because it is not 100%, just letting you guys know that he might join.

Now I need an answer from Eido...

[silverspawn]

and I could have had all of this had I only been quicker 

[gkrieg13]

and I could have had all of this had I only been quicker 

I don't get this

[Jan]

and I could have had all of this had I only been quicker 

I don't get this

he asked us to play in the game he is modding 30 minutes after we signed up for your game. ^^

[gkrieg13]

and I could have had all of this had I only been quicker 

I don't get this

he asked us to play in the game he is modding 30 minutes after we signed up for your game. ^^

Oh I see.  Luckily his game will fill up in the next few days anyway because it is a normal game and not RMM with a closed setup.  I think more people are attracted to that kind of game.

[fontisian]

Man, who let Cron crash this party?

[Cron]

Man, who let Cron crash this party?

I'm not throwing away my shot.

[Awaclus]

/out

[gkrieg13]

/out

Sad to hear it

[EFHW]

/tag

[Cellovix]

I play.

[Haddock]

I just know that this is a terrible idea. But /in

[teamlyle]

I'd like to join, thanks!

[J Reggie]

Was that the hammer?!

[silverspawn]

I believe so

[gkrieg13]

yay! 

PMs will go out in about an hour!

[gkrieg13]

Reminder to everyone who hasn't played a forum game here before to pledge in the civilty pledge here

[gkrieg13]

PMs are out!

If you have any questions, please ask them in your personal QTs. 

THREAD LOCKED

N0 begins now and ends Thursday, July 7, at 12 PM

[gkrieg13]

I've changed some things around in the rules and in the flavor post.  Most were just grammatical errors and the addition of deadlines.  I had also forgotten to take out some stuff that I had copied from faust with reference to demons, which don't appear in this game.  I would suggest everyone read over the rules again (because you should really read them anyways).  Ask any questions in your personal QT.

THREAD STILL LOCKED (except for /tags for speccy)

[gkrieg13]

Nathan Petrelli sat down after a long day at work. Apparently lots of people have been disappearing around the world, and everyone was working frantically to find the cause of the kidnappings and find out how they were related..

He picked up the remote and turned on the TV. "The rate of kidnapping has increased 20000% around the world in the last week. The targets for these kidnappings show apparently no connection. The FBI say they are working on the case"

"Great..." Nathan said, "Now the FBI is on the case".

Nathan's phone rings.

"Hello?"

"Senator Petrelli, this is Emile Danko. I've been put on the case to figure out who is behind these kidnappings. I've been told you have knowledge of many of the people who have disappeared."

"What? Who has been kidnapped?"

"Senator Petrelli, I'm afraid they have taken Merideth Gordon. Do you know her?"

Nathan's face went flush. "Ya I know her. Who else has been taken?"

"Uh just some old business men. Linderman, Kaito Nakamura. Ring any bells?"

"Yes. I know them."

"So you'll help us find who is behind this?"

"Ya I'll help find out who is behind this."

He hung up the phone.

Who could be behind this? What do they want with Evos? I thought Renautus and the Company had been taken down? How are they finding the Evos?

Well whoever they are, I have to find out who it is and put a stop to it before they find more of them.

Day 1 begins now!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting(13): RoadRunner7671, JReggie, Cellovix, silverspawn, Chairs, Faust, Seprix, fontisian, Jan, iguanaiguana, Cron, Haddock, teamlyle

THREAD UNLOCKED

[J Reggie]

Good morning everyone! vote: Seprix because it's fun.

[chairs]

...second.

[J Reggie]

...second.

Hi chairs! How's things? Yeah, I was surprised I got here at just the right time to end up getting the first post.

Also, has everyone else watched the show? I've been meaning to for years and even have the first season on DVD, but just haven't gotten around to it.

[chairs]

Never saw it myself.

[faust]

Save the Roadrunner, save the town!

...that joke used up all the Heroes knowledge I possess.

[Jan]

Fell free to ask me anything about the show and its lore if it is not about your own unclaimed role.

Does anyone in here prefer Ozzy solo over Black Sabbath as band?

Mostly asking because I need someone to policy vote/lynch at the moment.

Vote: Silver

After you got no traction last game because people don't care about winning (or are scum with you), let's dance.

[faust]

After you got no traction last game because people don't care about winning (or are scum with you), let's dance.

I care about winning! Not as a mod though. The mod always wins.

[faust]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

[faust]

Also, has everyone else watched the show? I've been meaning to for years and even have the first season on DVD, but just haven't gotten around to it.

Now sounds like the perfect time to do it.

[Jan]

After you got no traction last game because people don't care about winning (or are scum with you), let's dance.

I care about winning! Not as a mod though. The mod always wins.

I have seen games that were so bad that in the end everybody looked like a loser.

But that is more on player participation being so low that if i were modding such a game it would feel like a waste of my time.

If you were to win the game right now, who would you thank for it?

[faust]

If you were to win the game right now, who would you thank for it?

My parents first, and reinoe second.

[Cellovix]

I know literally nothing about the show.  I suppose I could google things, but I don't especially care. Mafia is mafia, the flavor is mostly irrelevant!

Vote: iguanaiguana

If there's two of them, maybe one of them is scum!

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I have a couple games experience here and there, but I read along with games more than I play.  I know no one (yet), but I'm sure I'll fix that by time this game is over =)

I react horribly to pressure and get mislynched all the time.  Scum should totally try to lynch me, I don't see how it could backfire for them whatsoever!  (This statement may contain falsehoods)

[Jan]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Hi! My name is Jan ..

You can call me Jan if you like .. I have played here before. 1 game. it was fun .. but we had a really bad mod.

Outside of that.

I played a game of "Machi Coro" yesterday.

It felt like a mash-up between Catan and Dominion to me. All around fun. No eye opening mechanics, but a really good game overall.
Has anyone in here played it?

Who is Reinoe? And why wouldn't you thank the mod for giving you the easiest victory of your life?

[faust]

Who is Reinoe? And why wouldn't you thank the mod for giving you the easiest victory of your life?

reinoe is a guy who once caused a game on here to be aborted because he PMed the contents of the mafia QT to all players. If I were to win right now, the only reason I can fathom is a reinoe situation.

I would not thank the mod because it would not have been a fun game.

[Cron]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

Oh noooo. The pressure!!!!

Mainly play video mafia on Dailymafia and Allstars. Jan recruited me here for this game. I know Jan and Fonti here, (@jan and @fonti: is there anyone else here I would know?) and I play some forum on MU but currently have been on a forum break for about a month. First one back in, never played this long of a day/night phase before so interested to see how active it gets.

[teamlyle]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

[Cellovix]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

Town.  Probably.

[Cron]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

If this dude is experienced and this is an ult account, so dirty.

Should I believe in the derp clears this early?  I dunno

[faust]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

During the first (or, more precisely, zero-th) night, nobody gets killed usually. It's just mafia getting to know each other, and sometimes there are roles that can do stuff then. Usually not though.

Everyone is voting random people because this a phase of the game known as "Random Voting Stage (RVS)". There isn't any evidence around, but some content has to be produced. This has led to the habit of people starting out the game by making joke votes or otherwise random votes.

Question for the rest: How much do you believe that this a genuine townslip?

[faust]

Vote: Cellovix

[Cron]

@faust

Teamlyle bought himself a day pass at least. He's my top town today for it. As for clearing whole game, not there yet but I want to believe in the derp clear

[J Reggie]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

Here and on a lot of other mafia-playing sites, we start off with a "random voting stage", or rvs, where we vote for people based on silly accusations to produce more real interactions later on. Not all sites do this, though. I once read a game on "Previously TV" where there was no lynch or night kill in the first day/night cycle at all.

[Cellovix]

I don't think newb scum thinks to townslip the way he did.  He'd know if they made a kill or not.  I guess it's possible he's lying about experience level, but that'd be pretty scummy.  And not in the Likely To Come From Mafia kind of scummy.

[faust]

@faust

Teamlyle bought himself a day pass at least. He's my top town today for it. As for clearing whole game, not there yet but I want to believe in the derp clear

That's a whole lot of towncred for something that can be faked so easily. In fact, I think one could make a reasonable argument that scum!teamlyle asked just this question in the mafia QT and then some experienced player said "Hey that's great! Make sure you post that in the thread."

[Cron]

Curious, this site do Seer Hunt Clears?

[J Reggie]

Vote: Cellovix

I'd think Cron is the more likely vote here. Teamlyle is like conf!town.

[silverspawn]

Oh my god I actually drew town this game. I'm so happy.

[J Reggie]

Curious, this site do Seer Hunt Clears?

Not sure what those are. So probably not.

[faust]

Curious, this site do Seer Hunt Clears?

No. And I don't think it has any use in RMM.

[silverspawn]

Does anyone in here prefer Ozzy solo over [...]Black Sabbath as band?

Mostly asking because I need someone to policy vote/lynch at the moment.

Maybe I can help. I only know paranoid from black sabbath and I think it's fun but nothing remotely special. does that make you angry enough? Don't know ozzisolo.

[silverspawn]

vote: Cron for psychological warfare (i.e. choosing an avatar that smiles at you innocently and tries to discourage voting for the owner)

[Cron]

I'm all about the derp clears. He gets a day pass from me. You don't believe him, vote him. Its too dirty to be mafia imo this early. A derp clear like that in first post?  derp clears are something you fake later on, not day 1 post 1, for additional cred. Not something planned out. At least from my experience.

[J Reggie]

Oh my god I actually drew town this game. I'm so happy.

So did I. But being scum is funner than being town.

[silverspawn]

And not in the Likely To Come From Mafia kind of scummy.

Scummy means likely to come from mafia or other scum. let's put an end to the usage of the word in any other fashion right here.

[J Reggie]

I'm all about the derp clears. He gets a day pass from me. You don't believe him, vote him. Its too dirty to be mafia imo this early. A derp clear like that in first post?  derp clears are something you fake later on, not day 1 post 1, for additional cred. Not something planned out. At least from my experience.

I really like the term "derp clears". I think it's what we call townslips here.

[silverspawn]

At least from my experience.

My experience is quite different. Actually I can absolutely see a mafia buddy telling him to fake this slip in the first post. In fact I recall recent QT conversations which were exactly about this thing; you are new, you should slip in some way, how do we make you slip.

I think the a priori chance to do this is pretty high as either alignment making it not a strong indicator for either.

[J Reggie]

At least from my experience.

My experience is quite different. Actually I can absolutely see a mafia buddy telling him to fake this slip in the first post. In fact I recall recent QT conversations which were exactly about this thing; you are new, you should slip in some way, how do we make you slip.

I think the a priori chance to do this is pretty high as either alignment making it not a strong indicator for either.

I think teamlyle had good reasons to think mafia could have killed N0. It happens sometimes, not so much on f.ds though.

[J Reggie]

Also it almost always happens IRL.

[silverspawn]

yes, that's among the thing I said. I said it's a likely question for both alignments, for different reasons.

[Cron]

Again, I'm not clearing him all game. There's a chance you're right and he was told to do it. I however find it way more likely it's genuine, hence a one day pass. He should still post and give content, but unless he outright claims mafia or does something very mafia telling for a new player, I think it's a bad place to look at for a day 1 lynch.

[Cellovix]

It's customary for scum to have daychat here then? I guess it could have been something planted by a buddy, but I stand by it being something new scum wouldn't even think to slip.

[J Reggie]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim. Don't claim your time, since that gives scum an idea of whom they should kill. Only claim your alignment. That way, we'll know who the mafia are.

I'll start. I'm town.

Again, I'm not clearing him all game.

I most likely am.

[silverspawn]

unvote non-RVS vote: Cron

It's customary for scum to have daychat here then? I guess it could have been something planted by a buddy, but I stand by it being something new scum wouldn't even think to slip.

Daychat no, but N0 chat yes.

[J Reggie]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim. Don't claim your time*, since that gives scum an idea of whom they should kill. Only claim your alignment. That way, we'll know who the mafia are.

I'll start. I'm town.

Again, I'm not clearing him all game.

I most likely am.

*your role

[faust]

I most likely am.

If you clear a player all game based on a single post within the first hour of the game starting, then you are bad at playing mafia.

[silverspawn]

I most likely am.

If you clear a player all game based on a single post within the first hour of the game starting, then you are bad at playing mafia.

[Awaclus:] How does it affect his play if he's playing town?

[Seprix]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

[J Reggie]

I most likely am.

If you clear a player all game based on a single post within the first hour of the game starting, then you are bad at playing mafia.

That's not the only reason. But I probably shouldn't give him a complete pass anyway because yes that's bad play unless you have a cop result, and even then there are godfathers.

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

Nice to know my vote is in the right place.

[Cellovix]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

1. Is this a serious vote?

2. If yes, is there a reason you cut the quote off, not quoting the part where he wanted to mass claim alignments?

[Seprix]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

1. Is this a serious vote?

2. If yes, is there a reason you cut the quote off, not quoting the part where he wanted to mass claim alignments?

1. As far as I am concerned, RVS is over now.

2. For brevity. I could have included it, though I already included the bit where he said he wanted to mass claim.

[faust]

1. As far as I am concerned, RVS is over now.

It's true. There has been a white raven from the Citadel.

[Cellovix]

Can you explain why you think he's scum for making what seems like an obvious joke?

There's a bit of a difference between everyone claiming alignments, which he advocated, and a mass claim with people claiming their roles.

[Seprix]

I know very little about Heroes, but I do know there is a villain called Sylar, who gets the powers of anybody he kills. That's almost certainly going to be a mafia role, so if we can hit that guy, our lives will be much easier.

Can you explain why you think he's scum for making what seems like an obvious joke?

There's a bit of a difference between everyone claiming alignments, which he advocated, and a mass claim with people claiming their roles.

Was it a joke? I suppose that would make sense.

[Cellovix]

I assumed it was a joke, because I mean... claiming alignments isn't exactly indicative of anything.  Unless you think scum are going to trueclaim being scum, hah.

[Seprix]

I assumed it was a joke, because I mean... claiming alignments isn't exactly indicative of anything.  Unless you think scum are going to trueclaim being scum, hah.

I don't know, I was a bit jumpy about asking to mass claim roles.

[Cellovix]

He specifically said not to claim roles though.

I'm trying to decide if you just saw something you could opportunistically pounce on, or if you're just not reading things closely.

[silverspawn]

it was clearly a joke. the question is whether mafia or town is more likely to do that joke.

[Seprix]

I misread it.

it was clearly a joke. the question is whether mafia or town is more likely to do that joke.

Null.

[silverspawn]

I misread it.

it was clearly a joke. the question is whether mafia or town is more likely to do that joke.

Null.

I agree. Town on Seprix.

[Cron]

I like silverspawn. I understand, from his experience, why he thinks my derp clear read is bad. I can understand his logical flow on why he thinks my mafia, just wrong conclusion.

vote: Faust

I think he's posting for appearances. The whole pressure new players and going against the grain on the derp clear, feels for show and not genuine. I don't see any real game solving, just open questions and posts. I read his posts as trying to seem town and not trying to solve

[J Reggie]

it was clearly a joke. the question is whether mafia or town is more likely to do that joke.

Well the point was to get some responses which would lead to reads, which it did. People seem to think jokes have no place in mafia. I think that's wrong, especially D1.

[faust]

I don't see any real game solving, just [...] posts.

I'm afraid that you won't see anything but posts from me this game. Sorry.

[faust]

And for the rest, sorry if you don't feel like I'm game-solving. I feel like I'm game-solving, if that's any kind of relief. I already have mild town reads on some people, like J Reggie, you, silver to a lesser extent. And Cellovix has a scummy demeanor, the way he commented on teamlyle's post. It's like the typical post I expect scum to make after town slipped. Plus, it's pretty certain in my eyes that Cellovix/teamlyle are not scum together, so his death gives the most information right now.

[Cron]

Faust, can you explain your read on j Reggie? 

[iguanaiguana]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

If this dude is experienced and this is an ult account, so dirty.

Should I believe in the derp clears this early?  I dunno

Teamlyle has been playing forum survivor with us since late last year. He's been active on the site this entire time, playing nothing but forum survivor. So no alt account, but no proof that he hasn't actually played mafia online before either.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm all about the derp clears. He gets a day pass from me. You don't believe him, vote him. Its too dirty to be mafia imo this early. A derp clear like that in first post?  derp clears are something you fake later on, not day 1 post 1, for additional cred. Not something planned out. At least from my experience.

I really like the term "derp clears". I think it's what we call townslips here.

Call it a classic townslip, and everyone will lynch you. I have experience with this.

[iguanaiguana]

Overall impression so far:

Teamlyle is no fool. All this talk of him derp clearing is overblown.

Faust argument on Cellovix is weakish. Plus, I like ducks. My first word was duck. So D1 pass for Cellovix.

Unless later on I feel like lynching him.

It's 4PM. Good night everyone.

[Roadrunner7671]

1. As far as I am concerned, RVS is over now.

It's true. There has been a white raven from the Citadel.

I refuse to have missed RVS.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, I haven't read my PM.

[fontisian]

I believe in the deep clear.

I actually agreed with faust about Cellovix's reaction, bit I liked some of Cellovix's follow up. I'll settle for a town read on faust.

Rr: Don't bother posting until you read your pm.

[Roadrunner7671]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

[Seprix]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

[Roadrunner7671]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

Cause I didn't have to so I get a huge advantage if I'm Mafia.

[Cron]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

Cause I didn't have to so I get a huge advantage if I'm Mafia.

What?  Then why announce you didn't read it? 

[Roadrunner7671]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

Cause I didn't have to so I get a huge advantage if I'm Mafia.

What?  Then why announce you didn't read it?

Cause I'm stupid

[silverspawn]

at least 92% of the time, when RR does something crazy, the game gets more fun.

[Seprix]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

Cause I didn't have to so I get a huge advantage if I'm Mafia.

What?  Then why announce you didn't read it?

Cause I'm stupid

Oh boy...

[Roadrunner7671]

I got curious about 5 minutes after I posted. I'm town of course.

Why on earth did you not read your PM?

Cause I didn't have to so I get a huge advantage if I'm Mafia.

What?  Then why announce you didn't read it?

Cause I'm stupid

Oh boy...

What? Did I scumslip already?

[teamlyle]

So many new people. Hello new people! Tell us a bit about yourselves... what are your mafia experiences, who do you know here, how do you react under pressure?

Vote: Cron

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

During the first (or, more precisely, zero-th) night, nobody gets killed usually. It's just mafia getting to know each other, and sometimes there are roles that can do stuff then. Usually not though.

Everyone is voting random people because this a phase of the game known as "Random Voting Stage (RVS)". There isn't any evidence around, but some content has to be produced. This has led to the habit of people starting out the game by making joke votes or otherwise random votes.

Question for the rest: How much do you believe that this a genuine townslip?

Okay, Vote: fontisian courtesy of random.org. lol

Just to be perfectly honest, I don't have any evidence for being town, at least not more than everyone else. So I'd be suspicious if anyone trusted me too much.

[Cron]

Lol. I like roadrunner. As far as his alignment I have zero clue, but I will enjoy him in the game.

[Roadrunner7671]

Lol. I like roadrunner. As far as his alignment I have zero clue, but I will enjoy him in the game.

Aw thanks. I've found that people either love me or hate me.

If I scumslipped though I have a softclaim lined up and I think it's awesome.

[teamlyle]

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

1. Is this a serious vote?

2. If yes, is there a reason you cut the quote off, not quoting the part where he wanted to mass claim alignments?

Hmm. You know good point. vote: J Reggie

[Cron]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

[Seprix]

What? Did I scumslip already?

vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

What? Did I scumslip already?

vote: RR

It might be time to softclaim.

[SirMartin]

/tag

[teamlyle]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

[fontisian]

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

What?

[Cron]

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

I like this from Fonti. It's not outside of her play to do this as mafia, but I can picture her yelling this at her camera and the frustration is real. A town lean.

[Cron]

Also jan talking about the game flavor early and bolting is how I remember him playing in WWF flavor game a while back. I'm watching you, jan. 

[Roadrunner7671]

Also jan talking about the game flavor early and bolting is how I remember him playing in WWF flavor game a while back. I'm watching you, jan. 

Are you guys all from the same site? I thought you were champions from a coalition of forums.

[Cron]

Also jan talking about the game flavor early and bolting is how I remember him playing in WWF flavor game a while back. I'm watching you, jan. 

Are you guys all from the same site? I thought you were champions from a coalition of forums.

We all play video mafia on twitch. I have played a few forum games with him, the WWF game we were both mafia was on MU. His early play reminds me of that game off the top of my head. 

[Jan]

Well Cron it is just bad luck that those are actually topics I am good at.

If this was a Pokemon game then I would ask Fonti for lore advice.

And on the upside you do know that I did not lie as mafia in that game about any of the mechanics.

I might have not given out all of the infos I had, but I did stick with as much truth as town deserved.


I sadly have to agree that Silver already is townier then in all of his last game, and in that game he was 3p with perfect information hard bussing mafia for most of the days.

Cron is not someone who played in any of the champ games. Just a fun guy that can play well if he wants to. Either that or he makes weird ass palys as mafia when he believes he is doomed anyway.

[faust]

Drunk AMA.

but only for like 5 minutes, I need to sleep.

[faust]

Look at me, with the grammar and the spellling. I'm impressed by myself.

[faust]

Well, goodnight. Tomorrow, I will find the scum for you, don't worry.

[Jan]

damn it! i just refreshed.

I wanted to know what you were drunk on!

I want to know when you started playing mafia and who you think you have the best read on (either as clearing a town or catching as mafia).

I wanted to know what your favourite disney movie is and why you wish that magic broomsticks would clean up your house/apartment.

[Roadrunner7671]

I want to know why Seprix is voting for me.

[Cron]

I know nothing of Heroes except new Spock and Jess from gilmore girls are in it.  And I do remember you gave out true flavor clues as mafia. And you liking both subjects makes sense. Aight. Back to null.

And i can make weird ass plays as town. 

[Roadrunner7671]

I know nothing of Heroes except new Spock and Jess from gilmore girls are in it.  And I do remember you gave out true flavor clues as mafia. And you liking both subjects makes sense. Aight. Back to null.

And i can make weird ass plays as town.

Maybe we can be weird town together!

[Jan]

I want to know why Seprix is voting for me.

I want to know why Roadrunner is afraid of votes!

[Roadrunner7671]

I want to know why Seprix is voting for me.

I want to know why Roadrunner is afraid of votes!

Someone said we were out of RVS so Seprix thinks I'm scum. That's not good. Because this means Seprix doesn't trust me. And that's not good. I like Seprix. He's a cool guy.

[fontisian]

Vote: Roadrunner

[Roadrunner7671]

And this is a problem.

Why Fontisian?

[fontisian]

You're self conscious in a way that's pretty mafia.

[Roadrunner7671]

You're self conscious in a way that's pretty mafia.

Dude that's my thing. Being self conscious is like breathing. Ask silverspawn or faust or anyone.

[fontisian]

Yeah, but like, there's a difference between self-conscious and "oh god, this person has voted me, wat do."

[Haddock]

Hey all.  Sorry for my absence.  I'm kinda semi-VLA for a few days actually, busy weekend.

Step 1: vote: Cellovix
vote: Cron
vote: teamlyle
Nice to meet you three!

Step 2: Yeah, fonti, I don't think this is scum!RR.  He's always crazy like this.  I'm townleaning on RR if anything.

Step 3: Having read through.  I think vote: Seprix?  He hasn't done anything I strongly disagree with yet, which can't be a good sign.
Also teamlyle's townslip is pretty much entirely null, I agree with silver entirely on that.  Silver is making the sense btw.  (Obligatory silver-hasn't-tunnelled-anyone-yet-must-be-scum.)

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Roadrunner

Wagons!

[chairs]

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

[Cellovix]

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

I don't... think I understand.  Can you rephrase or clarify this?

[J Reggie]

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

I don't... think I understand.  Can you rephrase or clarify this?

I think by Quinn he meant wagon. But I'm not sure.

[J Reggie]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

[teamlyle]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

Okay, understood.

A lot of you are voting Roadrunner, and I kinda agree that he seems desperate after he got that first vote. Is he usually like that?

[Roadrunner7671]

There's no way I'm going to get lynched todsy for no reason.

[teamlyle]

Well, tell me, do you usually get defensive after getting votes? Because that seems like a very mafia-like thing to do but if you do it all the time that'd be a different story.

[Cellovix]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

Can you give two reads that you got on players based on the... proposal? Not even sure what the word I want is.

[faust]

damn it! i just refreshed.

I wanted to know what you were drunk on!

I want to know when you started playing mafia and who you think you have the best read on (either as clearing a town or catching as mafia).

I wanted to know what your favourite disney movie is and why you wish that magic broomsticks would clean up your house/apartment.

Well, I'm not drunk anymore, but I can still answer. I was drunk on free beer given out in a club, courtesy of a friend that performed there. I started playing online mafia about three years ago, IRL long before that, but I don't remember when the first time was. Is it who do I have the best reads on in general, or at this stage in the game, which of my reads do I think is best? I'll just answer both.

The people I can read best on f.ds are not in this game I think. Here, I feel I can read Seprix decently well, and maybe iguana, but I checked and I've never been in a game where he was scum and I wasn't, so maybe I'll fail to detect scum!him.

I'm not big on Disney, but I'd probaly pick the Jungle Book for mostly nostalgia reasons. Not sure about the magic broomsticks; I've heard some bad tales about them. I am more banking on robots cleaning up for me one day.

[silverspawn]

Is he usually like that?

Yes.

[faust]

Yeah, the RR wagon is weaksauce. fonti has an excuse for voting; she's never had to form a real read on him. Seprix and igu - bad.

I find myself agreeing a lot with silver. I remember I had that some game before and wondered what it meant. Unfortunately, I do not remember how that game turned out.

[Cellovix]

Is he usually like that?

Yes.

You've spent what feels like an unusual amount of posts this game trying to reinforce that things are not alignment indicative.  Can you point to 2-3 things that have happened that you think are alignment indicative?

[faust]

Is it who do I have the best reads on in general, or at this stage in the game, which of my reads do I think is best? I'll just answer both.

I did not delivar on that second promise, right? Sorry. This game so far, my read on J Reggie (town) is the strongest.

[faust]

We did not really talk about mass claiming after J Reggie's vote there. should we? It's always a tempting thing to try in RMM.

[faust]

We did not really talk about mass claiming after J Reggie's vote there. should we? It's always a tempting thing to try in RMM.

*vote=post

[teamlyle]

Yeah, the RR wagon is weaksauce. fonti has an excuse for voting; she's never had to form a real read on him. Seprix and igu - bad.

I find myself agreeing a lot with silver. I remember I had that some game before and wondered what it meant. Unfortunately, I do not remember how that game turned out.

True, the first people who voted for RR didn't give any reason for it. After RR started freaking out, though, that would be a perfect time for scum to strike and lynch a townie early game, just by bandwagoning. Vote: iguanaiguana

[Cellovix]

I don't think it's a good idea.  It'd lock people into claims, but it'd let scum navigate the likely night action minefield significantly easier, and optimize night kills. 

Seems like a net negative on day one at least.  If a few claims happen due to lynch pressure, maybe on day 2-3?

[faust]

I don't think it's a good idea.  It'd lock people into claims, but it'd let scum navigate the likely night action minefield significantly easier, and optimize night kills. 

Seems like a net negative on day one at least.  If a few claims happen due to lynch pressure, maybe on day 2-3?

Well, there's always the unknown of how much good it will actually do. But doing it on D1 forces scum to commit to potentially subpar fakeclaims without coordination, assuming (i) they don't have daychat (ii) they haven't talked about fakeclaims yet.

[J Reggie]

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

Can you give two reads that you got on players based on the... proposal? Not even sure what the word I want is.

Well, Seprix had a quick kind of gut response, which I can see coming from scum. I still have to read that one game where he was scum, since he's been town most of the time. Also, Faust has a pretty good town read on me now, which is good but also a little suspicious. I'm going to be watching those two more carefully now.

[Cellovix]

Hey Faust, talk with me about Seprix.  You said you can read him pretty well.

He's felt pretty opportunistic to me twice this game.  He's either not reading/thinking aboutposts carefully,  or is opportunistic scum.  He jumped on the mass claim thing, and snipped out the fact that it was regarding alignments rather than roles, and then jumped on RR for joking about scumslipping.

Would you mind re-reading him and trying to decide which of the two it is?

Or is he just literally incapable of telling when people are joking, and it's not an alignment indicative thing?

[faust]

Yeah, the RR wagon is weaksauce. fonti has an excuse for voting; she's never had to form a real read on him. Seprix and igu - bad.

I find myself agreeing a lot with silver. I remember I had that some game before and wondered what it meant. Unfortunately, I do not remember how that game turned out.

True, the first people who voted for RR didn't give any reason for it. After RR started freaking out, though, that would be a perfect time for scum to strike and lynch a townie early game, just by bandwagoning. Vote: iguanaiguana

The iguana votes are bad for the same reason the RR votes are bad. iguana's casual "let's make a wagon" is not something that comes from scum more often than from town.

[silverspawn]

Is he usually like that?

Yes.

You've spent what feels like an unusual amount of posts this game trying to reinforce that things are not alignment indicative.  Can you point to 2-3 things that have happened that you think are alignment indicative?

The fact that I did that is indicative of me being town because as scum I would be conscious of doing that and not do it.

Okay, aside from that. ((Ah, I hate this bug where things you delete override what you copied with CTRL + X))

This I gave scum points for

Again, I'm not clearing him all game. There's a chance you're right and he was told to do it. I however find it way more likely it's genuine, hence a one day pass. He should still post and give content, but unless he outright claims mafia or does something very mafia telling for a new player, I think it's a bad place to look at for a day 1 lynch.

because it's over-empathizing how much town points exactly were given

And I'd lean town on RR for non-fabricated craziness. Those are the only two things, I think.

[faust]

Hey Faust, talk with me about Seprix.  You said you can read him pretty well.

He's felt pretty opportunistic to me twice this game.  He's either not reading/thinking aboutposts carefully,  or is opportunistic scum.  He jumped on the mass claim thing, and snipped out the fact that it was regarding alignments rather than roles, and then jumped on RR for joking about scumslipping.

Are you insinuating that scum!Seprix purposefully misrepresents posts people make (that are in the thread for everyone to see) in order to make others vote for them? That seems like horrible play. I think Seprix is simply not thinking about his posts a lot, and if anything, that's more of a town tell than a scum tell.

I can reread him if you like. So far from following along nothing stood out though, and I doubt that will change upon reread.

[fontisian]

There's no way I'm going to get lynched todsy for no reason.

"I'm mafia, but you're voting me for the wrong reasons."

[Cellovix]

@Faust

I don't know him at all, so I have no baseline for his skill/capability.

I'd like if you re-read him, and can explain what I was trying to get out of this line of questioning after the fact.

[Cron]

unvote: Faust

I'm starting to like and agree with your content. Can you still explain the j Reggie town read though. He's your top town why?

[Cron]

Either Fonti is town or Fonti and roadrunner are both mafia. Don't give her credit if RR flips scum. Remember this.

[silverspawn]

There's no way I'm going to get lynched todsy for no reason.

"I'm mafia, but you're voting me for the wrong reasons."

Don't apply common tells to roadrunner. Didn't you play with him already?

[silverspawn]

Either Fonti is town or Fonti and roadrunner are both mafia. Don't give her credit if RR flips scum. Remember this.

oh? Interesting, why?

[Cron]

Either Fonti is town or Fonti and roadrunner are both mafia. Don't give her credit if RR flips scum. Remember this.

oh? Interesting, why?

Townsiding and bussing is well within her range as mafia.

[Roadrunner7671]

There's no way I'm going to get lynched todsy for no reason.

"I'm mafia, but you're voting me for the wrong reasons."

Don't make me give you a post restriction! 

[Cellovix]

Either Fonti is town or Fonti and roadrunner are both mafia. Don't give her credit if RR flips scum. Remember this.

I think I agree with Fontisian being town, but I don't think that is scum/scum interaction.  Bussing is a two way street.  Fontisian's actions look like bussing on the surface (if RR flips scum), but I don't think RR's reaction to her is a reaction a buddy has to getting bussed. It's almost a bewildered kind of defensive.

[Cellovix]

I don't think I explained it properly, I haven't slept yet.  But the general point should be clear - I don't think RR is acting like someone being bussed.  He'd know the person attacking him is scum and would less likely to be so instinctually defensive I think?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Iguanaiguana

Wagons!

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Iguanaiguana

Wagons!

I actually find this scummy.

[Cellovix]

Vote: Iguanaiguana

Wagons!

I actually find this scummy.

Why are you not voting him, then?

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Iguanaiguana

Wagons!

I actually find this scummy.

Why are you not voting him, then?

I don't want a quick hammer.

[silverspawn]

Good question.

Just type this: vote: igana

[Cellovix]

I have literally no idea how to read RR.

Almost everything he posts makes me want to vote him, but I suspect it's kind of a par for the course sort of deal.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have literally no idea how to read RR.

Almost everything he posts makes me want to vote him, but I suspect it's kind of a par for the course sort of deal.

When reading RR, there's a really good expression to follow: 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the nest.'

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.1

Seprix(2): J Reggie, Haddock
Silver(1): Jan
Cellovix(1): faust
Roadrunner7671(2): Seprix, fontisian
iguanaiguana(5): Cellovix, chairs, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, silverspawn

Not Voting(3): Cron, Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[Cellovix]

I am not voting Faust.

Not intentionally at least? 

[Roadrunner7671]

I am not voting Faust.

Not intentionally at least?

Faust is voting for you

[gkrieg13]

I am not voting Faust.

Not intentionally at least?

fixed.  I keep on mixing you and Cron up.  It would be nice if you had an avatar so I could keep you guys straight.

[Cellovix]

Unvote, since apparently I still had RVS vote on Iguana.

I am not voting Faust.

Not intentionally at least?

Faust is voting for you

I know. Mod took my @faust as a vote when I was just directing a question at him.  He fixed it quickly.

[Cellovix]

fixed.  I keep on mixing you and Cron up.  It would be nice if you had an avatar so I could keep you guys straight.

Fixed.  I had a space or something in the avatar field, so it broke.

[Cellovix]

A couple generic questions:

1) Is there an easy way to isolate someone's posts for the game thread?

2) Are their site rules for multi-posting? Or am I free to spam away when I'm the only person in the thread, talking to myself? (I'm mostly kidding here, I just wasn't sure if I should stand around and twiddle my thumbs after posting 2-3 times in a row, or if it was permissible to make another post without waiting for a combo breaker)

[silverspawn]

A couple generic questions:

1) Is there an easy way to isolate someone's posts for the game thread?

Navigate to the bottom of the page, click on "All" right of "Pages:". Wait a bit for the entire thread to load. Click CTRL+F, type something unique to a user's forum profile (standard solution is, "goko username: XXX"), navigate through posts by pressing enter. That's the best thing we have.

2) Are their site rules for multi-posting? Or am I free to spam away when I'm the only person in the thread, talking to myself? (I'm mostly kidding here, I just wasn't sure if I should stand around and twiddle my thumbs after posting 2-3 times in a row, or if it was permissible to make another post without waiting for a combo breaker)

It is allowed and not discouraged. Post away.

[silverspawn]

I did wonder before what happens in cases where you have a confirmed scum. Theoretically, it would now be good play for him to spam the thread needlessly. But no-one's ever done it.

[Cellovix]

I quoted the entire game thread once as outed scum.  It was a fast paced game with like 30 minute day phases, so I was just being deliberately obnoxious, as it was -EV town to lynch me before the rest of my team due to weird mechanics.

[Cellovix]

...second.

Never saw it myself.

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

Vote: Chairs

[faust]

A couple generic questions:

1) Is there an easy way to isolate someone's posts for the game thread?

Navigate to the bottom of the page, click on "All" right of "Pages:". Wait a bit for the entire thread to load. Click CTRL+F, type something unique to a user's forum profile (standard solution is, "goko username: XXX"), navigate through posts by pressing enter. That's the best thing we have.

Alternatively, go to the Print screen and search for "Post by: Playername". Plusses: Also works with non-unique profiles and loads faster. Minus: less pretty.

[teamlyle]

There's no way I'm going to get lynched todsy for no reason.

"I'm mafia, but you're voting me for the wrong reasons."

Saying that doesn't really prove anything...

Yeah, the RR wagon is weaksauce. fonti has an excuse for voting; she's never had to form a real read on him. Seprix and igu - bad.

I find myself agreeing a lot with silver. I remember I had that some game before and wondered what it meant. Unfortunately, I do not remember how that game turned out.

True, the first people who voted for RR didn't give any reason for it. After RR started freaking out, though, that would be a perfect time for scum to strike and lynch a townie early game, just by bandwagoning. Vote: iguanaiguana

The iguana votes are bad for the same reason the RR votes are bad. iguana's casual "let's make a wagon" is not something that comes from scum more often than from town.

I disagree. I think that scum would try to make a wagon, and Iguana saying "I'm making a wagon" is a failed attempt to make himself look like town. If it was actually meant as a casual statement why would he actually vote for RR then?

[faust]

I disagree. I think that scum would try to make a wagon, and Iguana saying "I'm making a wagon" is a failed attempt to make himself look like town. If it was actually meant as a casual statement why would he actually vote for RR then?

How is that a failed attempt to look like town?

Why wold he not vote for RR?

[teamlyle]

I disagree. I think that scum would try to make a wagon, and Iguana saying "I'm making a wagon" is a failed attempt to make himself look like town. If it was actually meant as a casual statement why would he actually vote for RR then?

How is that a failed attempt to look like town?

Why wold he not vote for RR?

Well, reverse-reverse psychology.

Psychology: Oh, he said he's making a wagon, that's something that scum do.

Reverse psychology: Since he's so blatantly saying that he's making a wagon, it's probably just a town joke rather than a scum giveaway.

Reverse-reverse psychology: Iguana wants to think that, so he's probably scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Reverse-Reverse-Reverse Psychology: I knew you would think of that, and wanted to impress you by out-thinking even this deep level of manipulation! So I am in fact... a town!

Unvote


I guess I like the Seprix votes best of everyone right now. But his play can be pretty awful sometimes (no offense, I think you know what instance I'm talking about) so... whoknowsreally ^^

[silverspawn]

it's called wifom.

[iguanaiguana]

Full disclosure, I do not find Roadrunner at all scummy this game, and in fact was town-leaning him when I voted him. But I saw no harm in voting him so early in the game when he was unlikely to be lynched and was curious who else might join the vote. I thought maybe we'd see some scum-tells out of the new players who don't know his meta yet.

It didn't go so well, so I self-voted for fun. Now my games are over and I shall play for real until I don't feel like it anymore.

Happy weekend!

[faust]

I disagree. I think that scum would try to make a wagon, and Iguana saying "I'm making a wagon" is a failed attempt to make himself look like town. If it was actually meant as a casual statement why would he actually vote for RR then?

How is that a failed attempt to look like town?

Why wold he not vote for RR?

Well, reverse-reverse psychology.

Psychology: Oh, he said he's making a wagon, that's something that scum do.

Reverse psychology: Since he's so blatantly saying that he's making a wagon, it's probably just a town joke rather than a scum giveaway.

Reverse-reverse psychology: Iguana wants to think that, so he's probably scum.

And why is it reverse-reverse psychology rather than just reverse psychology?

[faust]

The Seprix Reread That Was Promised:

We have the first J Reggie vote. It's a bad vote, based on a misunderstanding. But bad != scummy. He goes on to speculate about what roles mafia could have - that's actually slightly townie. Then he votes RR for making a joke (?). Seprix has not yet given reasoning for this vote, so it's hard to interpret.

Well, that's all. There's one thing that's slightly townie and the rest is null.

[faust]

unvote: Faust

I'm starting to like and agree with your content. Can you still explain the j Reggie town read though. He's your top town why?

Such a carefree entrance. Bolding "I'm town" in his first post. Giving a basically full-game pass to teamlyle. Blatant OMGUS after Seprix votes for him. These are all things that can be perceived as scummy, and doing all of this as scum takes balls. I think it's more likely town on a rampage.

[Cellovix]

Fair enough.  I think he's marginally more likely to be town than null, but given you claimed to know him pretty well, I wanted to try and evaluate how you'd approach it and see how you think.

Results are kind of inconclusive, but I think I like you not jumping on him for doing bad things, and making the distinction between bad and scummy.

[Cellovix]

I have places to be and things to quack at, so I'm probably dipping out for the evening.

I'm hopeful Chairs, Jan, Haddock show up and do things.  I have a decent amount of light town reads, which means the people making no imprint on the game are pretty plausibly scum.

[faust]

Seprix is kinda like RR light. He does crazy stuff and posts a lot (actually didn't post that much so far), but the stuff is not quite as crazy as RR's stuff. Still, everything that happened so far is well within his meta.

Still when it comes down to it, I'd lynch him, because I'll never forgive him for missing the quickhammer in That One Game.

[J Reggie]

...second.

Are you voting chairs for lurking? Because that's what he's known for.

Never saw it myself.

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

Vote: Chairs

[J Reggie]

Quote fix

...second.

Never saw it myself.

vote: iguanaiguana that that Quinn is on town.

Vote: Chairs

Are you voting chairs for lurking? Because that's what he's known for.

[J Reggie]

it's called wifom.

So it's a bit off topic, but it's weird that we call it that since in that case both glasses were poisoned.

[Cellovix]

I refreshed literally just before I headed out door, but I'll respond to this quick:

I have no meta on any player.

I was looking at this:

Vote Count 1.1

Seprix(2): J Reggie, Haddock
Silver(1): Jan
Cellovix(1): faust
Roadrunner7671(2): Seprix, fontisian
iguanaiguana(5): Cellovix, chairs, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, silverspawn

Not Voting(3): Cron, Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

And realized I had no idea who Chairs was. So I looked through his posts and found them more than lacking.  He's following along enough to have a thought on a player, and to vote someone for voting that player, but making no effort to figure out the alignment of people or do much of anything.  So I voted him to provoke a reaction or to pressure him into doing something.  It's not all that effective now that I've said that is what I was trying to do, but point still stands.

[J Reggie]

I refreshed literally just before I headed out door, but I'll respond to this quick:

I have no meta on any player.

I was looking at this:

Vote Count 1.1

Seprix(2): J Reggie, Haddock
Silver(1): Jan
Cellovix(1): faust
Roadrunner7671(2): Seprix, fontisian
iguanaiguana(5): Cellovix, chairs, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, silverspawn

Not Voting(3): Cron, Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

And realized I had no idea who Chairs was. So I looked through his posts and found them more than lacking.  He's following along enough to have a thought on a player, and to vote someone for voting that player, but making no effort to figure out the alignment of people or do much of anything.  So I voted him to provoke a reaction or to pressure him into doing something.  It's not all that effective now that I've said that is what I was trying to do, but point still stands.

He's a notorious lurker. In a recent game, he was lynched D1 as a town cop without claiming.

[Cron]

I don't like lurkers and I will vote on them even if it's day 1. No need to get subs, we have rope and a stool. Lurkers have a high % to be mafia.

So please post more, we have lots of irl days. I won't feel bad killing a lurker.

I'm actually glad you pinged out chair. The early post and bail method is typical mafia.

[silverspawn]

chairs is a lot less lurky now than he used to be.

[chairs]

Sorry I've been murky,  phone posting. Totaled my car on Tuesday and so having to deal with that shit a lot. Will be posting more soon I promise. Also vote: teamlyle

[silverspawn]

Totaled my car on Tuesday

aw, crap

[Roadrunner7671]

Chairs seems really unfortunate honestly. He gets lynched as an unclaimed cop, gets sick, gets in car crashes, and soldiers on to play mafia.

[Seprix]

unvote: Faust

I'm starting to like and agree with your content. Can you still explain the j Reggie town read though. He's your top town why?

Such a carefree entrance. Bolding "I'm town" in his first post. Giving a basically full-game pass to teamlyle. Blatant OMGUS after Seprix votes for him. These are all things that can be perceived as scummy, and doing all of this as scum takes balls. I think it's more likely town on a rampage.

Careful. This is J Reggie we are talking about. He only pulled insane stunts as scum in his very first game.

Seprix is kinda like RR light. He does crazy stuff and posts a lot (actually didn't post that much so far), but the stuff is not quite as crazy as RR's stuff. Still, everything that happened so far is well within his meta.

Still when it comes down to it, I'd lynch him, because I'll never forgive him for missing the quickhammer in That One Game.

I forgot about that.

[teamlyle]

Full disclosure, I do not find Roadrunner at all scummy this game, and in fact was town-leaning him when I voted him. But I saw no harm in voting him so early in the game when he was unlikely to be lynched and was curious who else might join the vote. I thought maybe we'd see some scum-tells out of the new players who don't know his meta yet.

It didn't go so well, so I self-voted for fun. Now my games are over and I shall play for real until I don't feel like it anymore.

Happy weekend!

Fair enough. But at the same time, you weren't the one who started the RR vote.

unvote

[faust]

Careful. This is J Reggie we are talking about. He only pulled insane stunts as scum in his very first game.

Can you refresh my memory on this?

[Cron]

vote haddock

Lurker.
Didn't want to vote chair, feel bad about the car.
I know jan and I know he'll contribute more. Plus his knowledge of the show might help us regardless of his alignment.

[J Reggie]

Careful. This is J Reggie we are talking about. He only pulled insane stunts as scum in his very first game.

Can you refresh my memory on this?

The key in that game was to get the right people to have a strong town read on me. So far I've been scummier as town than as mafia.

Hey Jan, if you're there could you give me some background on my flavor role?

[faust]

Careful. This is J Reggie we are talking about. He only pulled insane stunts as scum in his very first game.

Can you refresh my memory on this?

The key in that game was to get the right people to have a strong town read on me. So far I've been scummier as town than as mafia.

Hey Jan, if you're there could you give me some background on my flavor role?

Which game is this you're talking about?

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

[Jan]

Careful. This is J Reggie we are talking about. He only pulled insane stunts as scum in his very first game.

Can you refresh my memory on this?

The key in that game was to get the right people to have a strong town read on me. So far I've been scummier as town than as mafia.

Hey Jan, if you're there could you give me some background on my flavor role?

I am here!
Does it say that you like to kill people to learn how they "tick" and get their power?
Or does it say that you are from an island called haiti?
Do you own a pair of horn rimmed glasses?

Those are the easiest towntells in someones role pm i can think of without going into deep.


I will get back into this game later today/tomorrow. Busy stuff going on until then.

Someone used the role 3 a little while ago. Feel free to ask said person why they picked the 3 ppl they picked.
That is always a fun game to pass the time and maybe even find scum.

[J Reggie]

Which game is this you're talking about?

Fruit Ninja

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

[faust]

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

I don't get it.... how would he know your flavor role?

[faust]

Which game is this you're talking about?

Fruit Ninja

Okay; I reread the beginning of that, I think you come off very differently here. That game your initial posts were much more about trying to appear helpful and actively scumhunting.

[J Reggie]

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

I don't get it.... how would he know your flavor role?

It's doubtful but it would be a happy coincidence and might clear both of us.

[faust]

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

I don't get it.... how would he know your flavor role?

It's doubtful but it would be a happy coincidence and might clear both of us.

Softclaiming then. I am doubtful that that's much better than flavor claiming, but you need to figure out how to play your role yourself of course.

[Jan]

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

It depends.
If it is just saying "hey you used that one word the one time and i think it is you softing something" just to townfirm each other, that is ok-ish.

But the moment you say the word you fuck up because you give mafia clues. (doing that is also fun because you can just lie and make mafia waste kp on you for no good reason)
I don't get it.... how would he know your flavor role?

It's doubtful but it would be a happy coincidence and might clear both of us.

Softclaiming then. I am doubtful that that's much better than flavor claiming, but you need to figure out how to play your role yourself of course.

[iguanaiguana]

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wow it's quiet.

[chairs]

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

[Seprix]

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

I'd ask, but that might be best left unsaid.

[J Reggie]

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

So without looking this up, I'm going to analyze it. It's a soft flavor claim. That means the flavor is probably more likely to be town than scum. So the obvious thing to think is that ii is town. But keep in mind scum are often given fake flavor claims, and might want to use them in this way to make people think they're town. So I feel like this post points to ii being scum. vote: ii

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

Eh, I've only handed out information that I don't think is useful to scum. Or have I?

[silverspawn]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

[Seprix]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Ditto. J Reggie is trying really hard. It's pretty scummy, enough to garner my vote.

vote: J Reggie Fils-Aime

Is your body ready?

[Seprix]

[Seprix]

In all seriousness though, my vote is actually serious.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: J Reggie:

[J Reggie]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Of course it's a little fabricated; it's a wild shot in the dark. It might not be true, but it's a possibility that crossed my mind. These are the kinds of things you need to do as town.

[teamlyle]

Eh, I've only handed out information that I don't think is useful to scum. Or have I?

A lot of people have done scummy things so far. Maybe one might do scummy stuff hoping to earn town points, because obviously, who would do that unless you're a really bad mafia. Although, at the same time it might just be a joke and I don't want to overthink and mislynch on D1. Not to say it couldn't be a scum sign though. J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

[J Reggie]

Wow it's quiet.

Hey, at least I fixed that!

[faust]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Vote:silverspawn

It took far too long.

[faust]

Eh, vote: silverspawn. We want to make sure it counts, no?

[J Reggie]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Vote:silverspawn

It took far too long.

What do you mean by that? I'm saying because I might agree with you if you're saying what I think you are.

[silverspawn]

yeah, what took far too long?

[Cron]

I honestly feel like mafia is lurking this game. I'm not moving

Also I need Fonti to step up and do something.  . Your town cred is slowly dropping.

[iguanaiguana]

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

At least my bad analysis is intentionally bad analysis.

[faust]

yeah, what took far too long?

For me to vote for you.

[teamlyle]

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

Wait I don't understand... so I'm putting wine in front of you?

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

Wait I don't understand... so I'm putting wine in front of you?

It's like reverse psychology and reverse reverse psychology etc.

[iguanaiguana]

[faust]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Vote:silverspawn

It took far too long.

What do you mean by that? I'm saying because I might agree with you if you're saying what I think you are.

I'm interested in what you think I was saying. For me, I mostly found it strange that silver would call something "incredibly fabricated" and then not vote for that person.

[faust]

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

Which of the analysis is awful then?

[J Reggie]

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Vote:silverspawn

It took far too long.

What do you mean by that? I'm saying because I might agree with you if you're saying what I think you are.

I'm interested in what you think I was saying. For me, I mostly found it strange that silver would call something "incredibly fabricated" and then not vote for that person.

Mostly that it was too in-depth of an analysis of such a little thing for scum!me to have bothered with it. Anyway, vote: Silverspawn is warranted.

[silverspawn]

if I always vote for people after I say they did something scummy, I'm probably scum. As town I have drive to stay close to a projected self-image of a quiet observer. At least that was what just happened.

[Roadrunner7671]

I saw the Princess Bride last night for the first time. So hooray for references that I understand!

[silverspawn]

now this will further complicate future scum games. But I don't intend to draw scum again soon, so it'll be fine.

[Cellovix]

Oh, hey, forum is back up.

My vote is still on Chairs in spirit, but I'm going to take a different route for now and

Vote: Jan.

She has too much focus on flavor and trying to appear helpful, not enough content and trying to find scum.  Talking about the flavor source for the game is fine in RVS, but we've long since left it behind, and it doesn't sit right with me.  There was also the thing where she soft attacked RoadRunner for being defensive of vote(s) on him, but left her vote on her RVS target.

So, talk to me, Jan, oh lover of flavor.  What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

[Cellovix]

if I always vote for people after I say they did something scummy, I'm probably scum. As town I have drive to stay close to a projected self-image of a quiet observer. At least that was what just happened.

Can you explain this further? Why do you try to strive for that projected ideal instead of simply being You, for lack of a better way to phrase it.  I don't think it's necessarily alignment indicative, I'm just curious and trying to figure out how you think.

[Cellovix]

@Chairs and @Haddock

The same question I posed to Jan above for you two, also:

What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

Too much lurking going on, let's shake them and see if content falls out.

[Cellovix]

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

At least my bad analysis is intentionally bad analysis.

Cite your sources here. What do you consider to be awful analysis, and why?

[gkrieg13]

Because the forum was down for less than 24hours, the deadline won't be extended

[silverspawn]

if I always vote for people after I say they did something scummy, I'm probably scum. As town I have drive to stay close to a projected self-image of a quiet observer. At least that was what just happened.

Can you explain this further? Why do you try to strive for that projected ideal instead of simply being You, for lack of a better way to phrase it.  I don't think it's necessarily alignment indicative, I'm just curious and trying to figure out how you think.

ah, well. it was not a conscious decision. In reality, people do this all the time, if I'm not misinformed (independent of mafia), they just are almost never aware of it. so when I looked back on the situation, I realized that it was what I did, in that moment, without thinking for more than a few seconds, I thought something like, haha, I will be the quiet mastermind who doesn't commit yet, and if I do, it will be great and stuff.

[silverspawn]

Jan is not a girl, btw.

[Cellovix]

Jan is not a girl, btw.

Noted. Unisex names are tricky.

You're voting Iguana. Do you still stand by that?  I can't really tell if your vote was serious, or joking. 

[silverspawn]

it was serious, but not particularly confident. Right now I have igu, JReggie, Haddock, and faust on my radar.

[Cellovix]

Why Haddock compared to Jan or Chairs?  How do you differentiate the three.

[Seprix]

Okay, seven days to make a case. I can do that.

[silverspawn]

Something about this post from haddock made me lean scum. I don't remember what it was, though, to be honest. Looking at it now, it seems null. Can't have been important.

[silverspawn]

Note though that it's not typical for Haddock to be lurking, and even less so for Jan.

[Cellovix]

Haddock just had the one post.  Feels more like not being here and less lurking.  Might need prodded or replaced.

Jan and Chairs have been active lurking, hence me voting for both of them at various points.

I'm kind of struggling to get a grasp on people because there's a lot of passivity. Very few people actively pushing scum reads or trying to figure out the alignments of others. I acknowledge it's probably a site culture thing that results in a minor playstyle clash. 

[Haddock]

I'm back!  And will do this:

@Chairs and @Haddock

The same question I posed to Jan above for you two, also:

What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

Too much lurking going on, let's shake them and see if content falls out.

shortly.

OK so I've been "lurking" apparently?  I did actually announce that I was VLA.  I've been trying to follow but essentially unable to post.  Some catching up to do.

[Seprix]

Haddock just had the one post.  Feels more like not being here and less lurking.  Might need prodded or replaced.

Jan and Chairs have been active lurking, hence me voting for both of them at various points.

I'm kind of struggling to get a grasp on people because there's a lot of passivity. Very few people actively pushing scum reads or trying to figure out the alignments of others. I acknowledge it's probably a site culture thing that results in a minor playstyle clash.

Sorry, Cellovix. Usually I do try and push cases. I'm holding back a bit this time around, because it's gotten me in trouble so often.

[Cellovix]

Haddock just had the one post.  Feels more like not being here and less lurking.  Might need prodded or replaced.

Jan and Chairs have been active lurking, hence me voting for both of them at various points.

I'm kind of struggling to get a grasp on people because there's a lot of passivity. Very few people actively pushing scum reads or trying to figure out the alignments of others. I acknowledge it's probably a site culture thing that results in a minor playstyle clash.

Sorry, Cellovix. Usually I do try and push cases. I'm holding back a bit this time around, because it's gotten me in trouble so often.

Can you elaborate? How does trying to lynch people you think are scum get you in trouble? 

[Seprix]

Can you elaborate? How does trying to lynch people you think are scum get you in trouble?

It's so simple, how elegantly you state it. In practice, it is easy to make a mistake.

[Cellovix]

Yes, but I'm trying to understand what you mean by trouble.  You've been wrong? It's gotten you mislynched?

[iguanaiguana]

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

At least my bad analysis is intentionally bad analysis.

Cite your sources here. What do you consider to be awful analysis, and why?

Super don't feel like it at this time.

[fontisian]

P sure Reggie is town.

Also pretty sure RR is mafia and you guys are letting him slide.

[Haddock]

So, some thoughts. 

Seprix seems his normal self.  His RR vote is pretty bad, not well thought out.  But that's what he's like in my brief experience with him.  unvote

As usual I like faust's analytic play.  Tentative town there.  I'm not sure I'm a massive fan of this question though:

I've played IRL mafia a few times. I'm horrible at being mafia because I'm a really bad liar and everyone can tell.

So I'm just wondering (sorry for being a noob), did anyone get killed last night? Why is everyone voting for random people?

Question for the rest: How much do you believe that this a genuine townslip?
[/quote]
Not sure what I don't like about it.  I guess I would expect faust to answer this question himself rather than ask others.
I guess I want to throw something in here though re lyle's "slip" (sorry I know I'm behind the times here).  Basically I have no idea why anyone's trying to take anything from it.  It wasn't a slip, it was just lack of knowledge about how f.ds mafia works.  It could have been a constructed lack of knowledge, sure.  But there's just no way to tell, it's completely null.  I really don't understand why so much discussion came from it.  But of course that's never a bad thing.  Cron giving him a pass for it is a bit weird.  But meh, it's D1.  Having some D1 passes is useful.


RR seems back to his usual self after a few games of being way too normal.  I'm sticking to my original townlean there.

J Reggie seems towny.  His opening post definitely doesn't seem like the scum!him from Fruit Ninja. 

fonti does not seem super towny.  Her posts don't seem to be contributing much and her position on RR is not the best.

I disagree with like all of the things igu has said and done.  But that's normal for me and igu.  So, null I guess? (Edit:  I actually think I really like his play re RR.  Leaning town)  Not sure I like the big wagon on him, there's no vote on him that has been accompanied by a reason that works for igu in general.

I lean slightly scummy on Jan as well.  Lots of long posts that don't contribute to the game per se.  But I scumread Jan early in Sherlock too...




I have a few posts that look either towny or not, but I'll put them in a separate post as a response to Cellovix's question.



 

[Haddock]

P sure Reggie is town.

Also pretty sure RR is mafia and you guys are letting him slide.

Who were you referring to in this post?  I assumed RR but clearly not:

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

[faust]

Not sure what I don't like about it.  I guess I would expect faust to answer this question himself rather than ask others.

We were in RVS... I did not think much of the "slip", but I thought it provided a nice way to get us out of RVS. And hey, it worked.

[faust]

P sure Reggie is town.

Also pretty sure RR is mafia and you guys are letting him slide.

Who were you referring to in this post?  I assumed RR but clearly not:

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

I was under the impression that the latter post refers to teamlyle.

[teamlyle]

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

Wait I don't understand... so I'm putting wine in front of you?

It's like reverse psychology and reverse reverse psychology etc.

You didn't really answer the question... nothing personal but vote: J Reggie

[Cron]

unvote haddock

I'm willing to bet there's a lurker mafia between jan, chairs, haddock, but I don't see a lynch on any of those happening. So I won't waste my time

vote roadrunner

Time to test my theory about Fonti. Iguana doesn't feel mafia with the way he's posting and I'm liking j Reggie. I think faust's early read on him is pretty good, can understand where he's coming from and I agree with the read, like him now. 

[Cron]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

[Haddock]

unvote haddock

I'm willing to bet there's a lurker mafia between jan, chairs, haddock, but I don't see a lynch on any of those happening. So I won't waste my time

vote roadrunner

Time to test my theory about Fonti. Iguana doesn't feel mafia with the way he's posting and I'm liking j Reggie. I think faust's early read on him is pretty good, can understand where he's coming from and I agree with the read, like him now.

I'm putting together some posts I saw while catching up that I had things to say about. 
Meantime, two things, fyi.
unvotes don't have to be followed by their targets.
a lot of mods won't count votes without colons.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

Wait I don't understand... so I'm putting wine in front of you?

It's like reverse psychology and reverse reverse psychology etc.

You didn't really answer the question... nothing personal but vote: J Reggie

Basically I don't want scum to know whether anything I've said has given away too much information. So I'll create confusion about it. Maybe they'll overanalyze what I've said or maybe they'll miss something.

P sure Reggie is town.

Also pretty sure RR is mafia and you guys are letting him slide.

Who were you referring to in this post?  I assumed RR but clearly not:

Oh my god.

No one is writing towny stuff for this guy. It's too pure.

I thought she was referring to teamlyle.

Slight town on fontisian actually because of the way she's reading RR. It seems honest town.

[Haddock]

Some posts and what I think of them:  (I think these are in chronological order, I'm not going to organise them by poster)

1)

If you were to win the game right now, who would you thank for it?

This is such a weird thing to say.  But it's towny-weird, don't we think?  I just don't see scum asking this.  This is a rare towny moment for Jan.

2)

Oh my god I actually drew town this game. I'm so happy.

WIFOM WIFOM, of course.  But my instinct says this feels genuine.

3)

I think he's posting for appearances. The whole pressure new players and going against the grain on the derp clear, feels for show and not genuine. I don't see any real game solving, just open questions and posts. I read his posts as trying to seem town and not trying to solve

He's discussing faust here.  I don't like this at all.  I disagree with his analysis.  Presumably he's unaware that faust is very respected as a gamesolver here, so this approach is unlikely to win him any points - the whole thing feels forced.

4)

Teamlyle is no fool. All this talk of him derp clearing is overblown.

Faust argument on Cellovix is weakish. Plus, I like ducks. My first word was duck. So D1 pass for Cellovix.

Unless later on I feel like lynching him.

It's 4PM. Good night everyone.

For anyone else (except maybe Hydrad) I would be scumreading this post.  But can the people who've played with iguana and are voting him please look at this post and note how classic igu it is, please?

5)

Okay, Vote: fontisian courtesy of random.org. lol

Just to be perfectly honest, I don't have any evidence for being town, at least not more than everyone else. So I'd be suspicious if anyone trusted me too much.

This is an ugly post.  The random.org vote for RVS feels really forced like he's trying to go with the flow.  The second paragraph is forced too.  "Look how I'm worried about buddying!"

6)

Fair enough.  I think he's marginally more likely to be town than null,

What?  "Null" is not something anyone is "likely to be".
Nothing alignmenty to take from this post, but it doesn't make sense.  Might just be a typo I guess.

7a)
Couple of weird things from Reggie here.  I think I have to townread for them overall just because scum!Reggie is proven to be more careful than this.

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

So without looking this up, I'm going to analyze it. It's a soft flavor claim. That means the flavor is probably more likely to be town than scum. So the obvious thing to think is that ii is town. But keep in mind scum are often given fake flavor claims, and might want to use them in this way to make people think they're town. So I feel like this post points to ii being scum. vote: ii

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

Eh, I've only handed out information that I don't think is useful to scum. Or have I?

Nyehhhhh.  Reggie's new and all but he's seemed more competent than this in general.  Not sure what he's getting at here. 

7b)

J Reggie, could you please explain your intentions when saying "Or have I?"

Wifom (wine in front of me, which is a reference to that scene in the princess bride where the guy is trying to figure out which glass of wine is poisoned).

Does scum openly admit to trying to wifom people?  But then why does town try to wifom anyone in the first place?  To hide role I guess, but it's RMM. 

8 )

Something about this post from haddock made me lean scum. I don't remember what it was, though, to be honest. Looking at it now, it seems null. Can't have been important.

Could it have been some OMGUS?   I guess I should have clarified that my "scumread" on you was a joke.  I did think that would be clear.


Cellovix, if you like, you can take 1, 4 and 7 as three "posts that I think come from a towny place" and 3 and 5 as from a scummy place.  Obviously individual posts aren't that indicative.  But you requested, so there you go.

I like vote: Cron I think.  teamlyle also hasn't looked amazing in general but I have this feeling people aren't going to be up for that.

PPE 1.  Really though?  I really haven't seen a good point against RR yet.  It's RR.  I guess fonti doesn't know RR.  but.  nyeh.

[J Reggie]

PPE 1.  Really though?  I really haven't seen a good point against RR yet.  It's RR.  I guess fonti doesn't know RR.  but.  nyeh.

That's the point. If I didn't know RR, I'd say he looked very scummy here. As it is he's within his town meta, but as someone else pointed out (can't currently remember who) she's never had to have a real read on RR.

[Cellovix]

@Haddock

I guess I want to throw something in here though re lyle's "slip" (sorry I know I'm behind the times here).  Basically I have no idea why anyone's trying to take anything from it.  It wasn't a slip, it was just lack of knowledge about how f.ds mafia works.  It could have been a constructed lack of knowledge, sure.  But there's just no way to tell, it's completely null.

The reasoning is that if he were scum, he'd know whether or not they made a kill.  The lack of understanding on how f.ds mafia works only works if it comes from town, unless it's completely faked.  And I don't think newb scum even think to make that kind of fake, because it shows a certain kind of nuance in terms of how mafia is played different places.

~x~x~x~x

With regards to #6 - saying that someone is more likely to be town than null means that I think they have higher odds to be town than the mathematical average.  So if scum are 33% of the playerlist, I'm saying I think he's more than 67% likely to be town.  It's just a slightly convoluted way to say Light Town Read, I suppose.

Thanks for doing the exercise, content is always appreciated.

I don't agree with some of your reads, but I'll attempt to parse that and identify why that is, later.  Eyes are kind of glazed over at the moment, and the most I can do is ask questions, rather than think.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.2

Cron(1): Haddock
silverspawn(3): Jan, faust, J Reggie
Cellovix(1): iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671(1): fontisian
iguanaiguana(1): silverspawn
teamlyle(1): chairs
J Reggie(3): Seprix, Roadrunner7671, teamlyle
Jan(1): Cellovix

Not Voting(1): Cron

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[iguanaiguana]

I disagree with like all of the things igu has said and done.

That's because I'm not trying!

But that's normal for me and igu. 

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.2

Cron(1): Haddock
silverspawn(3): Jan, faust, J Reggie
Cellovix(1): iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671(1): fontisian
iguanaiguana(1): silverspawn
teamlyle(1): chairs
haddock(1): Cron
J Reggie(3): Seprix, Roadrunner7671, teamlyle
Jan(1): Cellovix

Not Voting(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

Vote: J Reggie

Wagons!

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.2

Cron(1): Haddock
silverspawn(3): Jan, faust, J Reggie
Cellovix(1): iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671(1): fontisian
iguanaiguana(1): silverspawn
teamlyle(1): chairs
haddock(1): Cron
J Reggie(3): Seprix, Roadrunner7671, teamlyle
Jan(1): Cellovix

Not Voting(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

Vote: J Reggie

Wagons!

Is there any reason for this other than sheeping the wagon?

[Seprix]

Vote: J Reggie

Wagons!

That is such an awful vote.

[iguanaiguana]

Gut tells me silver is townie, gut tells me you are scummy.

It's Day one, show me a better case and I'll sheep that instead. But so far everyone's cases amount to Much Ado.

[silverspawn]

Ah. Time to strike.

vote: iguana

[silverspawn]

Could it have been some OMGUS?

Nah, we all know you don't suck ♥

[Roadrunner7671]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

Yo I am not flipping.

The only flipping I'm doing is flipping out over these votes 

[silverspawn]

I diagree with #3

I think he's posting for appearances. The whole pressure new players and going against the grain on the derp clear, feels for show and not genuine. I don't see any real game solving, just open questions and posts. I read his posts as trying to seem town and not trying to solve

He's discussing faust here.  I don't like this at all.  I disagree with his analysis.  Presumably he's unaware that faust is very respected as a gamesolver here, so this approach is unlikely to win him any points - the whole thing feels forced.

I don't think it matters how good we think faust is. That doesn't make his analysis forced. He said faust had mostly questions, which is true. Is it far fetched to think of that as scummy?

I do agree about not agreeing with the substance, I think questions are fine early on, and it is early on.

Rest I largely agree with.

[iguanaiguana]

Ah. Time to strike.

vote: iguana

[silverspawn's usual bs]

okay then, you always scumread me though

[silverspawn]

not sure if antagonizing me is so blatantly strategically unsmart that I should give you townpoints for it or not.

[iguanaiguana]

well it's kinda funny because last time I said that I was scum (and so were you!)

[fontisian]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

[Roadrunner7671]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

Uh, what have I done? In general?

[Jan]

Oh, hey, forum is back up.

My vote is still on Chairs in spirit, but I'm going to take a different route for now and

Vote: Jan.

She has too much focus on flavor and trying to appear helpful, not enough content and trying to find scum.  Talking about the flavor source for the game is fine in RVS, but we've long since left it behind, and it doesn't sit right with me.  There was also the thing where she soft attacked RoadRunner for being defensive of vote(s) on him, but left her vote on her RVS target.

So, talk to me, Jan, oh lover of flavor.  What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

I am back.

I got asked to sub into the wildcard champsgame because a guy did not confirm up until like 1 hours ago or so.
Now he is there so I don't need to sub in (which is good because I would have asked a friend to sub in for me here because I don't want 3 games at once and this game is early enough to trade slots). Still #1 on the sub list if anyone subs out, but I think people that get wildcard slots are most likely tryhards.

Anyways - the scummiest thing so far? Your ping towards me.

First I am a man. Not sure if the forum states that anywhere, but it is known.
But more importantly pinging me after I said earlier that I will be gone for a while is nothing short of pointless.
If i had not stated that I would be out of this game for a while, then what you did would be useful, but in this case you either don't read the thread or only wan't to look useful with an action like this.

I will get back into this game later today/tomorrow. Busy stuff going on until then.

You see. Easy!

Outside of that .. I mentioned this before :

I'm hopeful Chairs, Jan, Haddock show up and do things.  I have a decent amount of light town reads, which means the people making no imprint on the game are pretty plausibly scum.

Why did you feel like pinging those 3 people back then.
And why did you ping the same three people again, while not caring about my post inbetween?
If you want to get a read on me, you should actually read my fucking words.

That get amped a fair bit by the fact that haddock apparently said we would be gone as well (catching up on the thread as i write). How could you ask for content on 2 people and not know what is going on with the in the first place?

Anyways outside of that.

Seprix last game was fine fighting around early on (with melisandre if i remember it right), his attitude change is jumping to my mind.
I might reread him later, sounds promising.

fonti being on the roadrunner case is interesting, because that guy got townread by 2-3 other people and she is not having any of it.
I disliked RR initial response to the vote too, but his general play is close to last game, i think, but that is just my gut talking.

crons read on fonti is bad, but not alignment indicative for him.
I dislike him jumping on the lurker train, that is the easy way out and at least 2/3 had good reasons for not being as active early on.
BUT Cellogs push attempt rings worse/more phony.

Haddock pushing against the teamlyle townthing is unexpected. If he has reacted to teamlyles initial post then i would say it is more likely town, because mafia are more likely to just move on there and not fight a universal noobtown townread. (if he has not then he might have just missed it and only talk about the other post, which makes it a null thing)

For now :
Vote: Cellovix

[fontisian]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

Uh, what have I done? In general?

You've written things like this.

Everyone can see how mafia this is, right? Right?

[Roadrunner7671]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

Uh, what have I done? In general?

You've written things like this.

Everyone can see how mafia this is, right? Right?

I think I wrote that once and I tend to do that more as town.

[Jan]

And yes there is a little bit of omgus in there, but a guy voting on someone that said he would be gone and is still within his timeframe instead of voting on someone that they already have a read on (while asking for 3 scumreads, which means he assumes there is enough content in the thread for those) is bullshit.

please what do you think are 3 things written by someone from a "scum mindset".

[Jan]

Hmm yeah that quote is more scummy.

I have read through the sherlock game again just now .. or at least through RR earlier posts and I can see a difference.

hard to pinpoint down
He was more fun and derpy than he is here.

But he also never was under real pressure at all.

Back to back RR posts from last game that are kind of highlight worthy :

"What's the case?"
"Wait I started this wagon."

[silverspawn]

I have to advocate caution again. You can easily examine two town games of RR and find him pretty different in both. At least I can. If you look at another game where he is town, and genuinely think that he was similar there and in Sherlock, then we can have a discussion.

[Jan]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

If RR is town, then this might be one of the funnier ways to misslynch a town while keeping all the liability away from yourself.

[Cron]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

If RR is town, then this might be one of the funnier ways to misslynch a town while keeping all the liability away from yourself.

But I'm not keeping liability away from me, I'm keeping it away from Fonti.

Also your read on me jan, I lol'd. I agree, me giving bad reads isn't alignment indicative.

[J Reggie]

I feel like this thing between ss and ii isn't between two town. At least one of them is scum. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but let's keep an eye on those two.

I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to the kind of "if this person is town then this person is scum" thing that I dislike, but what I'm trying to say is there's just likely scum among those two players.

[silverspawn]

I feel like this thing between ss and ii isn't between two town. At least one of them is scum. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but let's keep an eye on those two.

I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to the kind of "if this person is town then this person is scum" thing that I dislike, but what I'm trying to say is there's just likely scum among those two players.

Why?

[J Reggie]

I feel like this thing between ss and ii isn't between two town. At least one of them is scum. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but let's keep an eye on those two.

I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to the kind of "if this person is town then this person is scum" thing that I dislike, but what I'm trying to say is there's just likely scum among those two players.

Why?

At this point it's more of a gut feeling than anything, but my early gut reads in Sherlock were right (that the was scum between you and ADK, and that Teproc was scum). So I'm not setting anything in stone but I'm on the lookout.

[silverspawn]

well if iguana flips scum this game I shall consider being quite impressed by your gut.

[J Reggie]

I feel like this thing between ss and ii isn't between two town. At least one of them is scum. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but let's keep an eye on those two.

I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to the kind of "if this person is town then this person is scum" thing that I dislike, but what I'm trying to say is there's just likely scum among those two players.

Why?

At this point it's more of a gut feeling than anything, but my early gut reads in Sherlock were right (that the was scum between you and ADK, and that Teproc was scum). So I'm not setting anything in stone but I'm on the lookout.

And that Seprix and melisandre were both town. Wow. I didn't even think about that.

[Jan]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

If RR is town, then this might be one of the funnier ways to misslynch a town while keeping all the liability away from yourself.

But I'm not keeping liability away from me, I'm keeping it away from Fonti.

Also your read on me jan, I lol'd. I agree, me giving bad reads isn't alignment indicative.

Giving bad reads as town makes playing mafia so much easier wouldn't you agree?

Well your vote had no conviction behind just pointing to fonti and seeing what happens next.
Do you think fonti is onto something?

I dislike silvers defense of rr. I can see rr being chaotic in a way that no two games look that much alike, but he is unlikely to change his behavior around completely for no good reason?!
@Silverspawn - do you mind saying why exactly you think rr is town if you don't think that his behavior is comparable meta-wise?

[silverspawn]

I can't. I have no idea at this point. But I don't think you or font got it right.

[J Reggie]

See, the thing about mafia that I keep having to remember is that the social aspect really dominates it. It's not always easy to say "this person said this so I know they're scum", but what's more likely is "from the sum of my interactions with this person, I feel like they're playing to this win condition". The second one is harder to explain but really more useful overall.

[silverspawn]

but he is unlikely to change his behavior around completely for no good reason?!

Frankly, no.

[iguanaiguana]

There is no thing between me and silverspawn any more than there is every single game. We do not, as they say, jive.

[iguanaiguana]

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

If RR is town, then this might be one of the funnier ways to misslynch a town while keeping all the liability away from yourself.

But I'm not keeping liability away from me, I'm keeping it away from Fonti.

Also your read on me jan, I lol'd. I agree, me giving bad reads isn't alignment indicative.

Giving bad reads as town makes playing mafia so much easier wouldn't you agree?

Well your vote had no conviction behind just pointing to fonti and seeing what happens next.
Do you think fonti is onto something?

I dislike silvers defense of rr. I can see rr being chaotic in a way that no two games look that much alike, but he is unlikely to change his behavior around completely for no good reason?!
@Silverspawn - do you mind saying why exactly you think rr is town if you don't think that his behavior is comparable meta-wise?

Roadrunner does things for reactions. He's also quite young, and precocious, and at least during the summer probably has too much time on his hands.

[silverspawn]

There is no thing between me and silverspawn any more than there is every single game. We do not, as they say, jive.

That is in your head. I take no issue with you. I just think you did scummy things this game. The other game where I pushed you was out of strategic convenience. It is not an example for anything relevant as I knew your alignment and you knew mine.

[Cron]

Okay, so you think I intentionally give bad reads to cover my tracks better when I roll mafia?  Hmm, if you actually think this, I'm sad.

Also, just because I haven't stated it yet, I do agree with what Fonti is saying on a few of RR's posts. in your experience jan, does Fonti typically go hard on a town for a d1 mislynch as mafia?

[iguanaiguana]

There is no thing between me and silverspawn any more than there is every single game. We do not, as they say, jive.

That is in your head. I take no issue with you. I just think you did scummy things this game. The other game where I pushed you was out of strategic convenience. It is not an example for anything relevant as I knew your alignment and you knew mine.

I am a town though.

[silverspawn]

you probably are. But the problem is, everyone probably is. You are a bit less likely town than others.

[iguanaiguana]

No, I am a town. Ugh ugh ugh ugh hug

[fontisian]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

Uh, what have I done? In general?

You've written things like this.

Everyone can see how mafia this is, right? Right?

I think I wrote that once and I tend to do that more as town.

Like this! Look at this! Look at it!

He's not saying that my assessment is wrong because he's town here, he's saying that even though he's mafia here, he wrote something like that as town before.

[J Reggie]

In the game I played with RR, the things he did made sense /from a certain point of view/. I was able to twist my head around his thought-process and basically understand. Here I'm trying to do that, and everything he does seems scum motivated.

Uh, what have I done? In general?

You've written things like this.

Everyone can see how mafia this is, right? Right?

I think I wrote that once and I tend to do that more as town.

Like this! Look at this! Look at it!

He's not saying that my assessment is wrong because he's town here, he's saying that even though he's mafia here, he wrote something like that as town before.

I think he's saying you gave an example of a thing that he only did once in this game, but he still tends to do it more as town anyway. Which I agree with.

[fontisian]

Yes, I know that's what he's saying on the surface. I am reading between the lines and trying to figure out why he said it that way.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yes, I know that's what he's saying on the surface. I am reading between the lines and trying to figure out why he said it that way.

Like iguanaiguana said, there is no 'between the lines' with me.

Unless it's my dope soft claim.

[fontisian]

There's a between the lines with everyone.

[Roadrunner7671]

There's a between the lines with everyone.

I suppose we just disagree on this ground. Alright.

But seriously dude. I'm town!

[faust]

unvote haddock

I'm willing to bet there's a lurker mafia between jan, chairs, haddock, but I don't see a lynch on any of those happening. So I won't waste my time

vote roadrunner

Time to test my theory about Fonti. Iguana doesn't feel mafia with the way he's posting and I'm liking j Reggie. I think faust's early read on him is pretty good, can understand where he's coming from and I agree with the read, like him now.

I don't like this, because it's voting for someone that you do not have a scumread on. There's little accountability.

[faust]

Ah. Time to strike.

vote: iguana

Man. I was going to vote for him because his I-don't-care-and-none-of-this-matters-attitude starts feeling forced, then silver comes in. Meh. I don't want to always agree with silver.

Anyway, last time I looked there were a couple of votes on iguana. I'm too lazy to check, so I won't vote.

[faust]

But really, fontisian does have a point.

Vote: Raodrunner

I feel like at this point, form the way people are treating him, he could say almost anything and get away with it, "because he's RR". That is no good, people need to be accountable for their actions.

I might also want to take a closer look at who defended RR. I think scum usually gains an advantage from townreading him: Either he's their partner (d'oh), and if he's town, well, he's unlikely to pose a threat and likely to fall for buddying, so he's the ideal candidate to white knight.

[silverspawn]

But really, fontisian does have a point.

Vote: Raodrunner

I feel like at this point, form the way people are treating him, he could say almost anything and get away with it, "because he's RR". That is no good, people need to be accountable for their actions.

I might also want to take a closer look at who defended RR. I think scum usually gains an advantage from townreading him: Either he's their partner (d'oh), and if he's town, well, he's unlikely to pose a threat and likely to fall for buddying, so he's the ideal candidate to white knight.

I don't like this, because it's voting for someone that you do not have a scumread on. There's little accountability.

[silverspawn]

(Never before has quoting you to address another post of you been so accurate)

Look, I don't have a problem with scumreading RR for reasons. But if those reasons are "different than in his previous town game" then I have to question the reliability of those reasons. They all seemed to be random votes to me.

[Cron]

Wow Faust just turned 180 degrees in about 15 minutes.

Towns:
Teamlyle
Silver
Fonti
Faust
J Reggie

Scums:
RR

Chair

Everyone else is null.

[faust]

(Never before has quoting you to address another post of you been so accurate)

Look, I don't have a problem with scumreading RR for reasons. But if those reasons are "different than in his previous town game" then I have to question the reliability of those reasons. They all seemed to be random votes to me.

Maybe I did not make myself clear - I do think RR's posts so far are scummy. To figure out why let's take a closer look... we have

- stating he hasn't read his PM. Not reading your PM is null. Saying you did not read your PM is scummy.
- he "has a softclaim lined up". Uh. Apparently half an hour after he read is PM. That is some quick thinking.
- finally, his exchange with fontisian was scummy. fontisian was right that he tried to appear towny more than actually being towny.

[silverspawn]

your original post sounded more like a policy argument to me. "we should not let him get away with this."

Fair enough.

[Seprix]

(Never before has quoting you to address another post of you been so accurate)

Look, I don't have a problem with scumreading RR for reasons. But if those reasons are "different than in his previous town game" then I have to question the reliability of those reasons. They all seemed to be random votes to me.

Maybe I did not make myself clear - I do think RR's posts so far are scummy. To figure out why let's take a closer look... we have

- stating he hasn't read his PM. Not reading your PM is null. Saying you did not read your PM is scummy.
- he "has a softclaim lined up". Uh. Apparently half an hour after he read is PM. That is some quick thinking.
- finally, his exchange with fontisian was scummy. fontisian was right that he tried to appear towny more than actually being towny.

Ooof, those are some good arguments. But it is RR... Hmmmm.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm becoming the new Awaclus apparently. If Faust doesn't see sense though, I'm done.

[gkrieg13]

unvote haddock

I'm willing to bet there's a lurker mafia between jan, chairs, haddock, but I don't see a lynch on any of those happening. So I won't waste my time

vote roadrunner

Time to test my theory about Fonti. Iguana doesn't feel mafia with the way he's posting and I'm liking j Reggie. I think faust's early read on him is pretty good, can understand where he's coming from and I agree with the read, like him now.

Was just reading through and saw these.  When I do vote counts, I ctrl+f vote:.  If your vote doesn't match that syntax, it won't be counted.  So the space between vote: and the name doesn't matter, but the bold and the colon are necessary.

[faust]

Umm... where is everyone?

[Roadrunner7671]

Umm... where is everyone?

Sulking

[Cellovix]

To all: I have some unexpected real life stuff going down that I need to deal with. I'll be back in ~2 days.  Maybe less, if all goes well.  If that's unacceptable and you need to replace me, I understand!

[J Reggie]

To all: I have some unexpected real life stuff going down that I need to deal with. I'll be back in ~2 days.  Maybe less, if all goes well.  If that's unacceptable and you need to replace me, I understand!

I believe that's acceptable as long as you let us know (which you just did).

[Jan]

To all: I have some unexpected real life stuff going down that I need to deal with. I'll be back in ~2 days.  Maybe less, if all goes well.  If that's unacceptable and you need to replace me, I understand!

I was about to go hard on your ass for first making hollow posts towards the less active faction and then not responding within a certain timeframe.

Nevermind for now. Get your things fixed, but I do expect some fun as soon as you get back.

[Seprix]

vote: SS

He's not fooling me again. He's scum in every single game.

[silverspawn]

Well I am not allowed to say it in the other thread, but in this thread, now that the other game is over, I am allowed to say that this game indeed broke my 4-time scum streak, and I finally got town again.

Also other games don't affect the probability of this game yadayada you know.

[Seprix]

Well I am not allowed to say it in the other thread, but in this thread, now that the other game is over, I am allowed to say that this game indeed broke my 4-time scum streak, and I finally got town again.

You said that last time!!!

[J Reggie]

Well I am not allowed to say it in the other thread, but in this thread, now that the other game is over, I am allowed to say that this game indeed broke my 4-time scum streak, and I finally got town again.

Also other games don't affect the probability of this game yadayada you know.

This post is not alignment-indicative at all. He'd say it as scum or town. I'm happy with my vote for now.

[silverspawn]

Well I am not allowed to say it in the other thread, but in this thread, now that the other game is over, I am allowed to say that this game indeed broke my 4-time scum streak, and I finally got town again.

You said that last time!!!

Of course I did, I was scum! I had to pretend to be town!

[J Reggie]

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

[Seprix]

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

I don't think so. SS is pretty consistent on both sides.

[silverspawn]

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

Awaclus has an extraordinarily high scum/town ratio in his overall count. Recently I think he was actually town a couple of times.

I don't have a particularly high or low ratio, only in the last four games. My overall ratio is now pretty normal.

[Haddock]

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

Oh I think we're always perfectly amicable.   But we do disagree reasonably often, wouldn't you say?  (Maybe you disagree )

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

Yeah I have no idea where this is coming from.  I don't remember any recent Awaclus scum games.

I'm becoming the new Awaclus apparently. If Faust doesn't see sense though, I'm done.

Jeez I dunno.  I think this is town!RR. 

[J Reggie]

So I feel like this is the part of the game where it's too early to have solid reads but too late to be crazy. I guess the thing to do now is rereads, which I might do later. I just don't want it to be a day before the deadline and have no idea who to lynch because everyone's posted just enough to avoid replacement.

[iguanaiguana]

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

Oh I think we're always perfectly amicable.   But we do disagree reasonably often, wouldn't you say?  (Maybe you disagree )

I disagree with everyone, always. Lynch me if you dare. I'm a town.

[J Reggie]

So I did a quick reread of RR (since he's first on the list) and realized I missed the whole softclaim thing. RR tends to be more excited about claims when he's scum, so I could see a vote: rr. But that's not final.

Also RR, I do hope the link in your signature is a joke.

[Roadrunner7671]

Man we can talk about my signature later. Believe it or not, I'm more worried about this lynch that's about to happen. I'll softclaim at like L-3 or something.

[Seprix]

Man we can talk about my signature later. Believe it or not, I'm more worried about this lynch that's about to happen. I'll softclaim at like L-3 or something.

Your signature doesn't link to your YouTube channel.

[Roadrunner7671]

Man we can talk about my signature later. Believe it or not, I'm more worried about this lynch that's about to happen. I'll softclaim at like L-3 or something.

Your signature doesn't link to your YouTube channel.

?

[Seprix]

Man we can talk about my signature later. Believe it or not, I'm more worried about this lynch that's about to happen. I'll softclaim at like L-3 or something.

Your signature doesn't link to your YouTube channel.

?

It links to a general feed for whoever has a YouTube account. Look at the signature link. It's so incredibly basic, that there's no way there is a unique user id code there. You're better off just going to your channel and linking the url there.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oops

[silverspawn]

It is actually funny, though.

[Roadrunner7671]

It is actually funny, though.

How do you find it if it was the wrong link?

[silverspawn]

No, the fact that it was a failed link, that was funny 

[Roadrunner7671]

No, the fact that it was a failed link, that was funny 

It keeps shoving a video into my signature so the forum is super laggy.

[Roadrunner7671]

This is so dum 

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Roadrunner

[Roadrunner7671]

What L is that?

[Roadrunner7671]

Request vote count

[faust]

Vote: Roadrunner

You forgot "wagons!"

[Roadrunner7671]

Seriously though I missed RVS then I try to RVS and I get lynched.

[Roadrunner7671]

New rule: Whenever I act 'scummy' I'm town. Whenever I act 'towny' I'm scum.

Cause people don't suspect me until later when I'm scum. So this is reasonable to follow.

[faust]

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

Oh I think we're always perfectly amicable.   But we do disagree reasonably often, wouldn't you say?  (Maybe you disagree )

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

Yeah I have no idea where this is coming from.  I don't remember any recent Awaclus scum games.

I'm becoming the new Awaclus apparently. If Faust doesn't see sense though, I'm done.

Jeez I dunno.  I think this is town!RR.

Well done picking 2 of the most irrelevant posts as the ones to respond to.

Vote: Haddock

[Roadrunner7671]

'Let's go after Haddock for being right!'

[faust]

'Let's go after Haddock for being right!'

'Let's go after Haddock for trashposting!'

[Roadrunner7671]

'Let's go after Haddock for being right!'

'Let's go after Haddock for trashposting!'

'Let's go after Haddock for disagreeing with me!'

[faust]

Or would you rather I go after you? Because I can if that's your wish.

[Roadrunner7671]

Or would you rather I go after you? Because I can if that's your wish.

[faust]

'Let's go after Haddock for being right!'

'Let's go after Haddock for trashposting!'

'Let's go after Haddock for disagreeing with me!'

My post makes it pretty clear that Haddock's read on you has nothing to do with me voting for him I believe.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.3

Cron(1): Haddock
silverspawn(1): Seprix
Roadrunner7671(3): fontisian, J Reggie, iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana(1): silverspawn
teamlyle(1): chairs
J Reggie(2): Roadrunner7671, teamlyle
Jan(1): Cellovix
Cellovix(1): Jan
Haddock(1): faust

Not Voting(1): Cron

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[silverspawn]

Well done picking 2 of the most irrelevant posts as the ones to respond to.

He did do that. I see the theory reason for why it is more likely coming from scum. Do you think it is actually more likely coming from scum?

[fontisian]

Vote: Seprix

I think Seprix's reaction to my Rr case and his joke vote on Ss felt fake.

[silverspawn]

vote: fontisian

those are both such bad votes. I don't feel like you're trying.

[Haddock]

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

Oh I think we're always perfectly amicable.   But we do disagree reasonably often, wouldn't you say?  (Maybe you disagree )

Didn't Awaclus have an absurdly long stint as scum recently? I know they're very different, but I wonder if there's anything we should be looking for to see if ss is actually finally town.

Yeah I have no idea where this is coming from.  I don't remember any recent Awaclus scum games.

I'm becoming the new Awaclus apparently. If Faust doesn't see sense though, I'm done.

Jeez I dunno.  I think this is town!RR.

Well done picking 2 of the most irrelevant posts as the ones to respond to.

Vote: Haddock

Wanna point out anything more relevant that happened in the intervening period? Nothing was really going on.

Now stuff is though.  I actually totally get fonti's vote on Seprix. Both seprix and RR have scummy enough metas that they practically get townreads for being scummy  (by people who know them)

[faust]

Wanna point out anything more relevant that happened in the intervening period? Nothing was really going on.

Now stuff is though.  I actually totally get fonti's vote on Seprix. Both seprix and RR have scummy enough metas that they practically get townreads for being scummy  (by people who know them)

Let's see. For example we have:
- silver voting for iguana
- Jan giving reads
- a little RR wagon

That's not much, but it's not nothing, and more doesn't happen if people like you and me don't make it happen.

[faust]

Well done picking 2 of the most irrelevant posts as the ones to respond to.

He did do that. I see the theory reason for why it is more likely coming from scum. Do you think it is actually more likely coming from scum?

I don't know. I know it's bad for town, I know I have no good read on Haddock, might as well vote and see what becomes of it.

[Haddock]

Fair dos then.
I've already commented on the RR wagon.  Anyone who actually knows him and is voting him currently needs to give a better reason. 

As for the other things you mention, I'll go take a look at those when I get a chance.


(Ahh I must have missed silver's vote on iguana the first time.  Today I only looked from #370 onwards since that's what I remember from my last look.  I'll comment in more depth later, but my first instinct?  It's weird.  Especially in combination with this:

well if iguana flips scum this game I shall consider being quite impressed by your gut.

Also I'm reminded of that time when silver tunneled II into the ground on D1 and everyone found silver super scummy for it.  Not because I think that's what's going to happen here.  Just because it occurred to me.)

[faust]

Well, I am sad to say that Haddock's response does not satisfy me, so my vote stays.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Fontisian

Wagons!

[faust]

Vote: Fontisian

Wagons!

Funny enough, your rapid vote changing actually contributes to there being few large wagons.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm just voting for the scummiest person. I put wagons at the end only to annoy you.

[faust]

I'm just voting for the scummiest person. I put wagons at the end only to annoy you.

I realized that, but thanks.

[J Reggie]

I've already commented on the RR wagon.  Anyone who actually knows him and is voting him currently needs to give a better reason. 

I've already given a reason that's based on his meta.

[Roadrunner7671]

Lol I only have three votes.

[Jan]

slank cover engaged.

Subbed into the wildcard champs match.

I will still play this game. Poke me if you need me I just might be less active overall. (Which is weird thing to say since I was not active in this game until now)

[fontisian]

Silver, dear, is Seprix doing what is right or what is easy?

Also, faust, Roadrunner hinted that he has a role, so if you could leave that be.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, faust, Roadrunner hinted that he has a role, so if you could leave that be.

What's this? I'm not a VT? Surprise!

[Seprix]

Off to work. Will be back.

[J Reggie]

Also, faust, Roadrunner hinted that he has a role, so if you could leave that be.

This is RMM. Of course he has a role.

[silverspawn]

Silver, dear, is Seprix doing what is right or what is easy?

what is easy. but scummy? no. he just lost a game where I was scum, for the fourth time in a row. he reacted exactly the way you would expect.

[faust]

Silver, dear, is Seprix doing what is right or what is easy?

Also, faust, Roadrunner hinted that he has a role, so if you could leave that be.

Hmm... not being aware of RMM... can't decide if scummy or towny. I mean, a townie would know that they have a role, but might still think it's only them. Scum, if there's enough pre-game communication, should be aware that everyone has a role (also they should have powers strong enough to realize that something is up). So I guess this means town points for fonti.

[faust]

Silver, dear, is Seprix doing what is right or what is easy?

what is easy. but scummy? no. he just lost a game where I was scum, for the fourth time in a row. he reacted exactly the way you would expect.

On this, I have to agree.

[faust]

I feel like I need to organize my reads. They are al over the place. Let's see. Town to scum:

JReggie
Seprix
fontisian
cron
teamlyle
Jan

Chairs
iguanaiguana

silverspawn
RoadRunner7671
Cellovix
Haddock

[faust]

chairs/igu is the null territory.

[Cron]

Sorry for the formatting error.

Vote: seprix

Wagons be stale, mixing it up.

[Cron]

Dammit

vote: seprix

[fontisian]

Rr has implied that his claim matters and he doesn't want to full claim. That's enough that we should leave him alone for today.

Silver, I don't dislike that Seprix reacted to you, I dislike the lack of emotion when he did it.

[Seprix]

Rr has implied that his claim matters and he doesn't want to full claim. That's enough that we should leave him alone for today.

Silver, I don't dislike that Seprix reacted to you, I dislike the lack of emotion when he did it.

Lack of emotion? The exclamation points weren't enough?

[Seprix]

In the other game I played with Fontisian, she wrote a lot more content. Yes, it took her replying to me to start a read, but now that I'm looking, I'm not entirely sure I like Fontisian's content so far in this game. It's very little. Very unusual for Fontisian.

vote: Fontisian

[Roadrunner7671]

My YouTube link is still broken. I'll try it from a computer. I don't think Fontisian or J Reggie are scummy.

[iguanaiguana]

chairs/igu is the null territory.

I'm a town.

[Roadrunner7671]

chairs/igu is the null territory.

I'm a town.

I have a town read on you too. I should make a list.

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunner's newly formatted read lists!

It's late at night and I'm tired of watching YouTube videos. So let's hit it.

My scale:
10-IC
9-Pseudo-IC
8-Super duper towny
7-Towny
6-Towny side of null
5-Null
4-Scummy side of null
3-Sort of scummy
2-Very scummy
1-Pseudo-Confirmed scum
0-Don't get a zero.

Now let's go!

Roadrunner7671: 5.0 He's just hard to read. He seems sort of towny but he has contributed literally nothing until this post, so we'll leave him here.
J Reggie: 5.6 I was more confident that he was town earlier, but he's a good scum player.
Questions for J Reggie:
1. What did you hope an alignment mass claim would accomplish?
2. How did you find my YouTube channel if the link wasn't working?
Cellovix: N/A I know this is disappointing. Whenever someone makes a list or something I look for my name like a kid in a candy store. But you are a new guy, and man you are tough to read. I'm scared of screwing up your read terribly (even if I give you a 5) so I'll give you this. But you get a D3 pass for your trouble.
Silverspawn: 4.4 I'm a bad person because I'm basing this off the fact that he's always scum. Nah. But in all seriousness, none of ss's posts have stuck out to me which is rate for ss is general, but I'll call it slightly scummy.
Chairs: 6.1 Typical chairs I guess. I'm townreading him because he's a terrible D1 lynch. I wish he'd post more but I'm just glad we could get a 13th player.
Faust: 4.1 Call it OMGUS, but town Faust can read me. Also weird stuff in general. Kill him N1 and I'll feel better.
Joseph: 3.8 Okay he's scummy. He's said almost nothing overall! Not even empty posts like me. Which is super weird. And that type of weird is sort of scummy.
Seprix: 4.7 Man he's fun. But hard to read. But voting for me after playing with me for a while and not explaining it is slightly scummy. Not so confident about this one.
Fontisian: 5.6 Ah, Fontisian. You remind me of Yuma (RIP Yuma  ). In the way that I like to think we're arch nemesises (nemeses plural) but I'm like the Detroit Lions and you're the Green Bay Packers. It's fun for me but I have no idea how you feel. You going after me isn't cool but it's not so scummy. A championship player such as yourself probably isn't so reckless.
Jan: 7.8 PR info. Zing.
Iguanaiguana: 7.9 Presenting the most biased read you'll ever see! But Iguanaiguana usually gets caught super early as scum by Silverspawn or Faust or someone cool. That hasn't happened, so we're cool. Right Iguanaiguana?
Cron: 5.4 So the only thing that sticks out to me is your voting blunders. That's not flattery, but it's true. I think it's a slightly towny thing though. You need to chill though. You are literally going to get me at LyLo.
Haddock: 3.6 Okay I'm mean. But you are great at white knightning. Have you seen your profile picture? But you don't really town read me as town, do you buddy? No. I'm keeping my eye on you, Sir Destry (get it? Cause he's white).
Teamlyle: 5.0 I KNOW you've made meaningful contributions so I feel bad, but they have slipped my mind. And I've interacted with you not much at all, which is sad. Hi teamlyle!
Gkrieg13: 0.1 I'm not giving him a zero because I'd get night killed faster than you can say 'Scouts Scout Scouting Scouts' Backwards as many times as victory cards as you reveal, but this guy literally claimed scum and quoted his PM. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten mod killed actually, but I'm cool with it.

[Roadrunner7671]

That was fun and productive, which is rare. I'm going to do more productive stuff!

[Roadrunner7671]

I was doing a Cellovix reread but it reset so I'll post the results instead of the reread.

[Roadrunner7671]

Well, I've dubbed him the old man as the group. He's quick witted and observant, but when talking about lurkers he reminds me of 'you darn lurkers get off my lawn!' And Cellovix, if you're female, you're still the old man. Which is a good thing, but you're probably like 23.

He expresses a minor interest in me but he gets distracted by things that actually matter.

Then leaves? After complaining about lurkers. I get irl stuff but the irony is worth mentioning.

I'd say perfectly null.

[Roadrunner7671]

Guys important question: Are redirecting roles usually scum? How often?

[J Reggie]

1. What did you hope an alignment mass claim would accomplish?

@teamlyle

Can you explain the "good point"?

Sorry. I meant that the mass alignment claim was pointless and maybe meant to block serious discussion. I definitely could be wrong and if someone comes up with a better reason to lynch someone then I'd do that instead.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

Can you give two reads that you got on players based on the... proposal? Not even sure what the word I want is.

Well, Seprix had a quick kind of gut response, which I can see coming from scum. I still have to read that one game where he was scum, since he's been town most of the time. Also, Faust has a pretty good town read on me now, which is good but also a little suspicious. I'm going to be watching those two more carefully now.

2. How did you find my YouTube channel if the link wasn't working?

I think I was already subscribed to you? I don't know, is that how you know I found it?

Guys important question: Are redirecting roles usually scum? How often?

I'd imagine so. They seem anti-town as they cause confusion.

[Roadrunner7671]

Alright I missed that exchange. And I know you found it because you commented on it in the thread.

But once I get more input on whether or not redirection is scummy we'll chat.

[J Reggie]

Oops I just realized I shouldn't have answered rr's last question. It sounds like he has a fake claim coming up and may have been more likely to give a dumb fake claim if someone had answered otherwise.

RR: redirecting roles are the most pro-town thing ever. Claiming a redirecting role basically makes you an IC.

How's that?

[J Reggie]

It's late at night and I'm tired of watching YouTube videos. So let's hit it.

Hey, that's why I'm here too.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oops I just realized I shouldn't have answered rr's last question. It sounds like he has a fake claim coming up and may have been more likely to give a dumb fake claim if someone had answered otherwise.

RR: redirecting roles are the most pro-town thing ever. Claiming a redirecting role basically makes you an IC.

How's that?

I might've caught scum, so play nice

[J Reggie]

Oops I just realized I shouldn't have answered rr's last question. It sounds like he has a fake claim coming up and may have been more likely to give a dumb fake claim if someone had answered otherwise.

RR: redirecting roles are the most pro-town thing ever. Claiming a redirecting role basically makes you an IC.

How's that?

I might've caught scum, so play nice

Uh oh, did you catch me? 

[Roadrunner7671]

Oops I just realized I shouldn't have answered rr's last question. It sounds like he has a fake claim coming up and may have been more likely to give a dumb fake claim if someone had answered otherwise.

RR: redirecting roles are the most pro-town thing ever. Claiming a redirecting role basically makes you an IC.

How's that?

I might've caught scum, so play nice

Uh oh, did you catch me? 

Actually, yes. We can take this to our neighborhood if you want.

[J Reggie]

Oops I just realized I shouldn't have answered rr's last question. It sounds like he has a fake claim coming up and may have been more likely to give a dumb fake claim if someone had answered otherwise.

RR: redirecting roles are the most pro-town thing ever. Claiming a redirecting role basically makes you an IC.

How's that?

I might've caught scum, so play nice

Uh oh, did you catch me? 

Actually, yes. We can take this to our neighborhood if you want.

Ok let's.

...what neighborhood?

[Roadrunner7671]

I was hoping to get a better reaction to analyze.

[J Reggie]

I was hoping to get a better reaction to analyze.

And I was hoping to get an invite to a neighborhood.

[Roadrunner7671]

I was hoping to get a better reaction to analyze.

And I was hoping to get an invite to a neighborhood.

This thread is basically a neighborhood until thay crazy fish comes online at 3 AM

[J Reggie]

Or until I fall asleep. Which is like now.

[Roadrunner7671]

Or until I fall asleep. Which is like now.

Same

[fontisian]

In the other game I played with Fontisian, she wrote a lot more content. Yes, it took her replying to me to start a read, but now that I'm looking, I'm not entirely sure I like Fontisian's content so far in this game. It's very little. Very unusual for Fontisian.

vote: Fontisian

What alignment was I in that game?

I'm now fully convinced rr is town.

[faust]

Faust: 4.1 Call it OMGUS, but town Faust can read me. Also weird stuff in general. Kill him N1 and I'll feel better.

That is very much not true. I don't know where you would get this from. I defended you ferociously when you were scum, and I pushed you hard when you were town.

Joseph: 3.8 Okay he's scummy. He's said almost nothing overall! Not even empty posts like me. Which is super weird. And that type of weird is sort of scummy.

Yeah man, that guy who isn't playing this game is pretty scummy for not posting!

[faust]

In the other game I played with Fontisian, she wrote a lot more content. Yes, it took her replying to me to start a read, but now that I'm looking, I'm not entirely sure I like Fontisian's content so far in this game. It's very little. Very unusual for Fontisian.

vote: Fontisian

What alignment was I in that game?

I'm now fully convinced rr is town.

That changed quickly. Why?

Just for the record, RR always does weird claims, which are mostly fake, even as town.

[Haddock]

In the other game I played with Fontisian, she wrote a lot more content. Yes, it took her replying to me to start a read, but now that I'm looking, I'm not entirely sure I like Fontisian's content so far in this game. It's very little. Very unusual for Fontisian.

vote: Fontisian

What alignment was I in that game?

I'm now fully convinced rr is town.

Wanna unvote then?  I agree with faust, though.  If you thought RR was scummy before, his weird PR chat should not change anything.  He always does this.


silver can you explain your iguana vote a bit?  Now that faust has pointed it out it's really sticking in my craw.  I mean, you guys have a minor disagreement about nothing particularly game-related, then he townreads you and then you vote him.  What's going on there?


I'm not sure I like J Reggie's recent stuff.  It's all too easy to just have an essentially meaningless conversation with RR that makes you look active.  When I get a chance I'mma reread Reggie and compare with his other games - I don't really have a handle on his meta yet.

[iguanaiguana]

silver can you explain your iguana vote a bit?  Now that faust has pointed it out it's really sticking in my craw.  I mean, you guys have a minor disagreement about nothing particularly game-related, then he townreads you and then you vote him.  What's going on there?

I'm a town and he's probably some weird role like "all the scum at once" because bananas.

[faust]

silver can you explain your iguana vote a bit?  Now that faust has pointed it out it's really sticking in my craw.  I mean, you guys have a minor disagreement about nothing particularly game-related, then he townreads you and then you vote him.  What's going on there?

I'm a town and he's probably some weird role like "all the scum at once" because bananas.

You've convinced me.

[iguanaiguana]

Tell me you're not kidding!

[J Reggie]

I'm not sure I like J Reggie's recent stuff.  It's all too easy to just have an essentially meaningless conversation with RR that makes you look active.  When I get a chance I'mma reread Reggie and compare with his other games - I don't really have a handle on his meta yet.

That exchange was interesting. I think we were both trying to get the other one to say something incriminating and it didn't work for either of us. As for my meta, I don't know if I even have a handle on it yet.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not sure I like J Reggie's recent stuff.  It's all too easy to just have an essentially meaningless conversation with RR that makes you look active.  When I get a chance I'mma reread Reggie and compare with his other games - I don't really have a handle on his meta yet.

That exchange was interesting. I think we were both trying to get the other one to say something incriminating and it didn't work for either of us. As for my meta, I don't know if I even have a handle on it yet.

I was just happy to have someone to talk to

[Seprix]

Wait, what the hell just happened? Why is it that RR always does something strange?

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait, what the hell just happened? Why is it that RR always does something strange?

What did I do??

It's only D1.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Haddock
I'll listen to my reads.

[fontisian]

In the other game I played with Fontisian, she wrote a lot more content. Yes, it took her replying to me to start a read, but now that I'm looking, I'm not entirely sure I like Fontisian's content so far in this game. It's very little. Very unusual for Fontisian.

vote: Fontisian

What alignment was I in that game?

I'm now fully convinced rr is town.

Wanna unvote then?  I agree with faust, though.  If you thought RR was scummy before, his weird PR chat should not change anything.  He always does this.


silver can you explain your iguana vote a bit?  Now that faust has pointed it out it's really sticking in my craw.  I mean, you guys have a minor disagreement about nothing particularly game-related, then he townreads you and then you vote him.  What's going on there?


I'm not sure I like J Reggie's recent stuff.  It's all too easy to just have an essentially meaningless conversation with RR that makes you look active.  When I get a chance I'mma reread Reggie and compare with his other games - I don't really have a handle on his meta yet.

It wasn't the pr thing. I like the way he shifted into game solving once the pressure let up a bit.

[fontisian]

Wait, what the hell just happened? Why is it that RR always does something strange?

Dear everyone.

Please look at this.

This is fake.

Thanks,
Fonti

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait, what the hell just happened? Why is it that RR always does something strange?

Dear everyone.

Please look at this.

This is fake.

Thanks,
Fonti

Please explain?

How is this 'coming from scum' type of thing?

[fontisian]

Seprix is like:


He's wooden.

[Roadrunner7671]

That's a weird analogy but one I can understand.

Fontisian: Are redirective roles often scum roles?

[Cron]

Why won't people, roadrunner specifically, stfu about roles?  There's literally no point to discuss this and it can help mafia. Is this the meta on here in this setup?  I don't see a benefit to town. Stop.

Stronger town read on Fonti. Would like seprix and chairs wagons today. Thoughts?

[Seprix]

Seprix is like:


He's wooden.

You're completely wrong.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why won't people, roadrunner specifically, stfu about roles?  There's literally no point to discuss this and it can help mafia. Is this the meta on here in this setup?  I don't see a benefit to town. Stop.

Stronger town read on Fonti. Would like seprix and chairs wagons today. Thoughts?

I had a N0 action brainiac

[Seprix]

Why won't people, roadrunner specifically, stfu about roles?  There's literally no point to discuss this and it can help mafia. Is this the meta on here in this setup?  I don't see a benefit to town. Stop.

Stronger town read on Fonti. Would like seprix and chairs wagons today. Thoughts?

I had a N0 action brainiac

Oh my god, SHUT UP. It's probably already too late, Mafia probably knows something for sure now.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why won't people, roadrunner specifically, stfu about roles?  There's literally no point to discuss this and it can help mafia. Is this the meta on here in this setup?  I don't see a benefit to town. Stop.

Stronger town read on Fonti. Would like seprix and chairs wagons today. Thoughts?

I had a N0 action brainiac

Oh my god, SHUT UP. It's probably already too late, Mafia probably knows something for sure now.

I believe I caught Mafia!

[Seprix]

Yep, you sure caught Mafia. It's not concerned town worrying about the vast amounts of potentially damning information you could be leaking.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yep, you sure caught Mafia. It's not concerned town worrying about the vast amounts of potentially damning information you could be leaking.

I haven't leaked much info at all, but okay.

Seems like Mafia would be trying to stop me from outing their partner, eh?

[Cron]

Why won't people, roadrunner specifically, stfu about roles?  There's literally no point to discuss this and it can help mafia. Is this the meta on here in this setup?  I don't see a benefit to town. Stop.

Stronger town read on Fonti. Would like seprix and chairs wagons today. Thoughts?

I had a N0 action brainiac

YOU DONT SAY!!!!!!  Why do you think fonti and I dropped our push on you. Lol

If you have vital info, might as well claim it now.

[Seprix]

I wanted to play a more reserved game, but nope, RR had to do something crazy.

I don't know what's worse: Having RR just full on claim or leave it as is.

[Roadrunner7671]

So Seprix is saying don't and Cron is saying do.

[Roadrunner7671]

I wanted to play a more reserved game, but nope, RR had to do something crazy.

I don't know what's worse: Having RR just full on claim or leave it as is.

You can still play your reserved game, but I'm gonna do my thing.

[Cron]

You've claimed. There's a difference between softing and claiming. You softed, we moved away. You have now claimed. Go ahead, it's info to town.  At least my opinion, you can wait for others to weigh in.

[Roadrunner7671]

I haven't claimed

[Cron]

I haven't claimed

Then stop talking about roles. Ty.

[Seprix]

We know nothing while Mafia might know something.

With a claim, Mafia knows for sure, but so do we. Given that this is heroes, it might actually work out better for town. There is that ability suck up guy on Mafia's side very likely, so it could depend on how powerful RR's ability is.

[Roadrunner7671]

I haven't claimed

Then stop talking about roles. Ty.

Do you want to potentially catch scum or not? If the answer is yes, riddle me this:
Are redirective roles usually scum?

[Seprix]

I haven't claimed

Then stop talking about roles. Ty.

Do you want to potentially catch scum or not? If the answer is yes, riddle me this:
Are redirective roles usually scum?

Yes.

[Roadrunner7671]

I was asking Cron but thanks.

[Cron]

I haven't claimed

Then stop talking about roles. Ty.

Do you want to potentially catch scum or not? If the answer is yes, riddle me this:
Are redirective roles usually scum?

Dunno. Probably. Busser is a scum role, right? 

[Cron]

I can't think of a town redirective role off the top of my head but I can with scum

[Roadrunner7671]

Alright. So if we know of a redirective role, we should lynch that person. Is anyone not in agreement with that?

[Cron]

I think bus driver is a town role?  I dunno, I'm not hip to the fancy roles.

The answer is its not really alignment indicative I don't think. Maybe leaning scum?  There's exceptions

[Roadrunner7671]

I think bus driver is a town role?  I dunno, I'm not hip to the fancy roles.

The answer is its not really alignment indicative I don't think. Maybe leaning scum?  There's exceptions

Bus Driver is almost exclusively scum.

[Cron]

I hate that we're talking about this and I see where it's going and if the role is town this is absolutely horrible.

[Roadrunner7671]

I hate that we're talking about this and I see where it's going and if the role is town this is absolutely horrible.

This redirective role really can't help town though

[Cron]

My answer is no fucking clue, probably scum if I had to guess.

Do whatever you wanna do or not.

[J Reggie]

RR, at this point just claim and get on with it.

[teamlyle]

I wanted to play a more reserved game, but nope, RR had to do something crazy.

I don't know what's worse: Having RR just full on claim or leave it as is.

You guys say that RR is always really anxious and stuff. I feel like Seprix is trying especially hard to take advantage of this and throw RR under the bus, so vote: Seprix

[Seprix]

I wanted to play a more reserved game, but nope, RR had to do something crazy.

I don't know what's worse: Having RR just full on claim or leave it as is.

You guys say that RR is always really anxious and stuff. I feel like Seprix is trying especially hard to take advantage of this and throw RR under the bus, so vote: Seprix

I understand your thinking, but am I voting for RR? I'm not throwing him under the bus. His horrible play doesn't mean he is scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Seprix

Wagons!

[Haddock]

RR, at this point just claim and get on with it.

[Seprix]

Vote: Seprix

Wagons!

This is the second time you've done this. Man.

vote: IguanaIguana

This isn't an OMGUS, either. Iguana has been hopping on to wagons because 'wagons'.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Seprix

Wagons!

This is the second time you've done this. Man.

vote: IguanaIguana

This isn't an OMGUS, either. Iguana has been hopping on to wagons because 'wagons'.

He does that to annoy Faust.

[faust]

Vote: Seprix

Wagons!

This is the second time you've done this. Man.

vote: IguanaIguana

This isn't an OMGUS, either. Iguana has been hopping on to wagons because 'wagons'.

He does that to annoy Faust.

It works better on Seprix than it does on me.

[faust]

Whatever RR is doing, it's certainly not the way to deal with the information he supposedly has.

RR, you now claim a guilty result, yet earlier it seemed as though your result makes Jan appear townie. I would love to hear just exactly what is going on.

[Roadrunner7671]

Who said anything about Jan?

[chairs]

Well I just caught up and boy is this interesting.

[faust]

Who said anything about Jan?

You did:

Jan: 7.8 PR info. Zing.

[faust]

Also, RR, I have to wonder: How did you perform a N0 action if you only read your role PM at the start of D1?

Vote: RR

[faust]

I have no idea whatsoever what he's doing, but it is certain that he's lying and rolefishing.

[iguanaiguana]

I have no idea whatsoever what he's doing, but it is certain that he's lying and rolefishing.

I don't know man, we just lost a game because we spent the whole game voting for the people who did stuff like this while scum just kinda watched.

[faust]

I have no idea whatsoever what he's doing, but it is certain that he's lying and rolefishing.

I don't know man, we just lost a game because we spent the whole game voting for the people who did stuff like this while scum just kinda watched.

One would think that some people might learn from this not to do things that only benefit scum. Alas, it's not happening. And people didn't do stuff half as bad in the other game.

[J Reggie]

Also, RR, I have to wonder: How did you perform a N0 action if you only read your role PM at the start of D1?

Vote: RR

I didn't even think about this. I think I'm still voting RR? In case not, vote: RR.

[Seprix]

Also, RR, I have to wonder: How did you perform a N0 action if you only read your role PM at the start of D1?

Vote: RR

I don't want to jump around with votes, but that's actually a very convincing case.

[Roadrunner7671]

I can explain later

[iguanaiguana]

Explaining now would be cool.

[chairs]

vote: rr

[J Reggie]

I can explain later

You've had enough time to come up with a fake claim.

[iguanaiguana]

alright whatever

Vote: Roadrunner

Wagons!

I don't like it though.

I'm not his scum partner though, I'm a town.

[Seprix]

request vote count?

[iguanaiguana]

I'm a town Seprix.

[Roadrunner7671]

I go to the zoo then I'm basically lynched.

Gkrieg gave me an extension on my action, I had until that Friday.

[J Reggie]

I go to the zoo then I'm basically lynched.

Gkrieg gave me an extension on my action, I had until that Friday.

You know what, I'm willing to believe this. I'll unvote for now.

[fontisian]

This is stupid.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.4

Cron(1): Haddock
iguanaiguana(1): Seprix
Roadrunner7671(3): faust, chairs, iguanaiguana
fontisian(1): silverspawn
Jan(1): Cellovix
Cellovix(1): Jan
Haddock(1): Roadrunner7671
Seprix(3): fontisian, Cron, teamlyle

Not Voting(1): J Reggie

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

This is stupid.

I agree. I try to get some scumhunting in and get put under pressure for it

[Roadrunner7671]

Screw it.

Jan is scum. Jan is capable of choosing a player and redirecting all actions taken on that player to a second player also of his choosing. I've been thinking hard about this role and I can't imagine it being a town role. So here we go. If Jan lies he incriminates himself, so we'll see.
Vote: Jan YOLO

[Roadrunner7671]

Sorry if you're town Jan but I'm pretty confident you're not.

[Seprix]

Well... That is typically a scum role.

vote: Jan

If this backfires... Well, we'll find out then, but I'm pretty sure RR is just an IC now?

[Roadrunner7671]

Yes so far I didn't do a bad 

[Roadrunner7671]

Here's a happy thought though: Even if Jan is scum and we lynch him, scum might not kill me simply because I am so bad at Mafia and I got a lucky blunde type of thing.

Like in Speed Dating Mafia when they killed Faust instead of me and Joseph.

[chairs]

Sure why not.

vote: jan

[Roadrunner7671]

This is great. Jan will either lie about his role or try to weasel away, but your reactions have helped to convince me. For once I think I didn't mess up. 

And I'll die a hero.

Punpunpnpunpunpunpun

[Roadrunner7671]

I was hoping J Reggie would show up but I guess he found some better YouTube videos. It's weird to be alone on the forum. It's so busy during the day and bam! Dead silence.

[faust]

Roadrunner, I will not vote somewhere else unless you full claim. Not saying that I will if you do, but at least there is a nonzero chance.

[faust]

I go to the zoo then I'm basically lynched.

Gkrieg gave me an extension on my action, I had until that Friday.

This I don't buy. From the OP:

  - There will be day phases and night phases.  Certain actions will be day actions, others will be night actions.  Pay attention to these deadlines, because they will be strict.

Also RR townread Jan earlier due to his "result", which makes no sense. And why did RR need two hours to tell us this? He's only trying to take a strong town player with him at this point. Or maybe buy towncred by outing a partner. That would be awful play, but I wouldn't put it past RR.

[faust]

If this backfires... Well, we'll find out then, but I'm pretty sure RR is just an IC now?

I'm pretty sure he's not. Weren't you willing to vote for him earlier? What the heck changed?

[faust]

So far, I also don't get the mechanical reason for RR to be able to perform an action N0. That is very unusual here, and I don't see a compelling case for a Rolecop to have that ability.

[Haddock]

I can kinda think of a flavour reason for it.  It's a bit of a stretch.

But let's get real.  We're lynching either RR or Jan here, and that seems like an easy enough choice to me.
vote: Jan

[Haddock]

L-2?

[faust]

I can kinda think of a flavour reason for it.  It's a bit of a stretch.

But let's get real.  We're lynching either RR or Jan here, and that seems like an easy enough choice to me.
vote: Jan

It is an easy enough choice. But you made the wrong one still.

[teamlyle]

Screw it.

Jan is scum. Jan is capable of choosing a player and redirecting all actions taken on that player to a second player also of his choosing. I've been thinking hard about this role and I can't imagine it being a town role. So here we go. If Jan lies he incriminates himself, so we'll see.
Vote: Jan YOLO

Wait a second. Sorry if I missed something but how do you know that??

[J Reggie]

I'll wait to hear from Jan before I vote.

Screw it.

Jan is scum. Jan is capable of choosing a player and redirecting all actions taken on that player to a second player also of his choosing. I've been thinking hard about this role and I can't imagine it being a town role. So here we go. If Jan lies he incriminates himself, so we'll see.
Vote: Jan YOLO

Wait a second. Sorry if I missed something but how do you know that??

I guess he's some kind of rolecop.

[J Reggie]

Actually I could still see this being a town role and RR being scum. I can make that case later if people want.

[chairs]

vote: rr forgot about the strict deadline policy.

[fontisian]

I'm pretty sure RR is making shit up, but that doesn't make him scum.

[J Reggie]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

[teamlyle]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

I agree. Sorry RR!

Vote: Roadrunner

[silverspawn]

lets have him fullclaim, and then see. Come and see.

[Roadrunner7671]

I feel like Ashersky where the cop has to get lynched. So stupid, I swear. But I'm not a rolecop. Full claim:

I am Peter Petrelli, the Good Brother.

Each night including night zero I may target someone to learn their night action ability (or if they're a dayvig I think I can do that, but it's unclear). The following night I can do their ability or target another person to learn their ability and potentially use it.

[Roadrunner7671]

I was going to soft claim Band of Misfits

[Haddock]

Silver talking the sense as usual.  I'm not sure I like the idea of letting a hypothetical scum power dictate who we want to lynch out of two people.  But I can't actually argue with the logic.  D1 we might not do better than that I guess.  Let's definitely wait for a full claim.

PPE ah there we go.

[Haddock]

Um if RR speaks truth we definitely shouldn't lynch him. He should just redirect away from himself tonight.   That's if he can target himself.

[Roadrunner7671]

Um if RR speaks truth we definitely shouldn't lynch him. He should just redirect away from himself tonight.   That's if he can target himself.

It was described as 'Player A and Player B' so I don't see why I can't make myself Player A

[J Reggie]

Um if RR speaks truth we definitely shouldn't lynch him. He should just redirect away from himself tonight.   That's if he can target himself.

Yeah, that seems like a solid idea, if he can do that.

[Seprix]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

No, you're just plain wrong. Killing confirmed town is so much worse than killing confirmed scum.

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

I agree. Sorry RR!

Vote: Roadrunner

You are too easily swayed by emotional appeals. Don't you think killing RR is a very very bad idea!?

[faust]

As far as I can tell, the claim matches flavorwise at least. That doesn't make RR town I think... then there is this:

- Flavor names are not given randomly, but fake claims will be given to those who need them.

So if RR was scum, and Peter Petrelli is a good guy, then this would have to be a fakeclaim, right?

Question to the flavor-knowing people out there: Does Peter Petrelli make sense as a bad guy?

And if not, I feel we should somehow be able to test RR's assumed power. Let me think about that for a bit. Unvote for now, don't want to give Jan the opportunity to quickhammer.

[Roadrunner7671]

@Seprix I'm glad you feel this way, but how am I confirmed town?

[J Reggie]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

No, you're just plain wrong. Killing confirmed town is so much worse than killing confirmed scum.

He's not confirmed town.

[faust]

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

[Seprix]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

No, you're just plain wrong. Killing confirmed town is so much worse than killing confirmed scum.

He's not confirmed town.

We'll find out if Jan is scum or not, won't we? Full claiming D1 is just so incredibly risky for scum. Sure, RR is capable, but I really don't think he is scum at this point.

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

Think what you like. I know what I'm doing.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't have time for a long post but let's outguess the mod:

Gkrieg is a second time mod, and this is his first RMM game. He's been visibily very excited and this took a long time to start. Clearly my role is designed by him. Then he learns (ahead of time) I'm out of town. He wants his cool designed role to happen, right? So he gives me a little extension, maybe not thinking I would do this type of thing. He probably thought it wouldn't matter at all and I wouldn't tell anyone. But I guess he hasn't played with RR enough 

[Seprix]

I don't have time for a long post but let's outguess the mod:

Gkrieg is a second time mod, and this is his first RMM game. He's been visibily very excited and this took a long time to start. Clearly my role is designed by him. Then he learns (ahead of time) I'm out of town. He wants his cool designed role to happen, right? So he gives me a little extension, maybe not thinking I would do this type of thing. He probably thought it wouldn't matter at all and I wouldn't tell anyone. But I guess he hasn't played with RR enough 

...What?

[Haddock]

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

Not scummy.  Just wrong.
Obviously lynching conf!town is bad. 

But in the hypothetical situation where we can't decide which of RR and Jan to lynch (and I really think we have to lynch one of them today), Reggie's reasoning is as good as any. 

PPE 3.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

[faust]

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

Not scummy.  Just wrong.
Obviously lynching conf!town is bad. 

But in the hypothetical situation where we can't decide which of RR and Jan to lynch (and I really think we have to lynch one of them today), Reggie's reasoning is as good as any. 

PPE 3.

It is scummy. He changes his view as soon as he learns that RR saw that Jan has a redirective power. If Seprix is Jan's partner, he knows this information to be correct, so he knows RR isn't just shitting around. Form then on, he treats RR as conf!town.

You know what? Vote: Seprix

[faust]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

[Seprix]

But don't we agree, Haddock? We both don't want to lynch RR. We need to play with the best chance for town to win. The best way to do this is to jump on the chance of Jan being scum. Worst case scenario, we know RR lied and then he is clearly scum. There's no losing here. There is almost certainly some sort of doctor protection in this game, so RR is likely safe as well in the night.

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

Not scummy.  Just wrong.
Obviously lynching conf!town is bad. 

But in the hypothetical situation where we can't decide which of RR and Jan to lynch (and I really think we have to lynch one of them today), Reggie's reasoning is as good as any. 

PPE 3.

It is scummy. He changes his view as soon as he learns that RR saw that Jan has a redirective power. If Seprix is Jan's partner, he knows this information to be correct, so he knows RR isn't just shitting around. Form then on, he treats RR as conf!town.

You know what? Vote: Seprix

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

[faust]

I don't have time for a long post but let's outguess the mod:

Gkrieg is a second time mod, and this is his first RMM game. He's been visibily very excited and this took a long time to start. Clearly my role is designed by him. Then he learns (ahead of time) I'm out of town. He wants his cool designed role to happen, right? So he gives me a little extension, maybe not thinking I would do this type of thing. He probably thought it wouldn't matter at all and I wouldn't tell anyone. But I guess he hasn't played with RR enough 

From a mod's perspective, this actually makes sense. Though I think it was poor judgment. But I have been tempted to do the same in the past.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

[faust]

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

And how did this influence your read on RR, exactly?

[faust]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

That's how a Rolecop works, yes. Scum does not need to find out stuff about people's alignments.

[Seprix]

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

And how did this influence your read on RR, exactly?

It would have been much better for RR to not say anything at all of course. And (I think it was your argument?) was somewhat convincing, but we have a chance to confirm once and for all whether RR's claim is legitimate or not. I think this is so important for D1.

[Haddock]

But don't we agree, Haddock? We both don't want to lynch RR. We need to play with the best chance for town to win. The best way to do this is to jump on the chance of Jan being scum.

Completely with you on this. 

I was only arguing a technicality here - your earlier post said "lynching conftown is better than lynching confscum". 
Which, well, two things:
1) noone is conf!anything yet, not really.
2) You seemed to be implying that Reggie's argument had no merit at all, which I disagree with.  There's some good points in there which we should be taking into account.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

That's how a Rolecop works, yes. Scum does not need to find out stuff about people's alignments.

Roleop: This is a town aligned roleblocker
My role: This is a roleblocker. Each night this player my target another player to...etc.

[Seprix]

But don't we agree, Haddock? We both don't want to lynch RR. We need to play with the best chance for town to win. The best way to do this is to jump on the chance of Jan being scum.

Completely with you on this. 

I was only arguing a technicality here - your earlier post said "lynching conftown is better than lynching confscum". 
Which, well, two things:
1) noone is conf!anything yet, not really.
2) You seemed to be implying that Reggie's argument had no merit at all, which I disagree with.  There's some good points in there which we should be taking into account.

Reggie's argument was an interesting one, but ultimately probably wrong. Lynching confirmed town is very bad, even if scum gets his ability for not doing it. It's a worthwhile trade.

I was assuming RR was right and confirmed!town. In reality, I am not certain, which is why we need to lynch Jan and find out.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm gonna need to send an apologetic PM to Ashersky later. No, I won't quit Mafia when you guys lynch me, but it will be disheartening.

[faust]

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

And how did this influence your read on RR, exactly?

It would have been much better for RR to not say anything at all of course. And (I think it was your argument?) was somewhat convincing, but we have a chance to confirm once and for all whether RR's claim is legitimate or not. I think this is so important for D1.

Well, lynching RR also confirms whether his claim is legitimate. And you did not argue that we should lynch Jan because it provides information about RR, you argued that we should lynch him because RR is "basically an IC".

[Roadrunner7671]

Lynching RR because you don't believe him sucks. Lynch Jan first. Then lynch me if I lied.

[faust]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

That's how a Rolecop works, yes. Scum does not need to find out stuff about people's alignments.

Roleop: This is a town aligned roleblocker
My role: This is a roleblocker. Each night this player my target another player to...etc.

No; a Rolecop would usually just give you "This is a Roleblocker". Otherwise it's a Rolecop and a Cop combined.

[Haddock]

Oh and faust, you do have something of a point, but voting Seprix is still insane.  Your entire argument there rests on Jan being scum anyway...

PPE. No, RR I don't think that's right.  Rolecop just get the rolename.  They never get alignment info.  The "cop" bit is something of a misnomer.

PPE Seprix.  Ok, but read my post.  As a way of deciding who to lynch between the two (if we can't all decided between us, ie. absent any reads), it's as good as anything.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

That's how a Rolecop works, yes. Scum does not need to find out stuff about people's alignments.

Roleop: This is a town aligned roleblocker
My role: This is a roleblocker. Each night this player my target another player to...etc.

No; a Rolecop would usually just give you "This is a Roleblocker". Otherwise it's a Rolecop and a Cop combined.

Really? Cool I'm better than a Rolecop.

All the more reason to not lynch me!

[faust]

Lynching RR because you don't believe him sucks. Lynch Jan first. Then lynch me if I lied.

It's not usually better this way around, or every scum ever could simply take a townie with them before they are lynched.

That said, I don't think I want to lynch you today.

[Seprix]

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

And how did this influence your read on RR, exactly?

It would have been much better for RR to not say anything at all of course. And (I think it was your argument?) was somewhat convincing, but we have a chance to confirm once and for all whether RR's claim is legitimate or not. I think this is so important for D1.

Well, lynching RR also confirms whether his claim is legitimate. And you did not argue that we should lynch Jan because it provides information about RR, you argued that we should lynch him because RR is "basically an IC".

For this day, he sure is. I need to clarify. For this day he is. If Jan is not scum, then we take a good hard look at the situation.

Oh and faust, you do have something of a point, but voting Seprix is still insane.  Your entire argument there rests on Jan being scum anyway...

PPE. No, RR I don't think that's right.  Rolecop just get the rolename.  They never get alignment info.  The "cop" bit is something of a misnomer.

PPE Seprix.  Ok, but read my post.  As a way of deciding who to lynch between the two (if we can't all decided between us, ie. absent any reads), it's as good as anything.

Alright. Fine. I'll consider lynching RR over Jan. I don't think it's the right move at all, so you'll have to convince me it's better than Jan if it comes to it.

[faust]

Reggie's reasoning doesn't work cause I'm not a rolecop

But you are. Your role is even stronger than a rolecop.

If I target someone and learn they're a rolecop or watcher or roleblocker, I've learned nothing about their alignment. I got lucky with Jan.

That's how a Rolecop works, yes. Scum does not need to find out stuff about people's alignments.

Roleop: This is a town aligned roleblocker
My role: This is a roleblocker. Each night this player my target another player to...etc.

No; a Rolecop would usually just give you "This is a Roleblocker". Otherwise it's a Rolecop and a Cop combined.

Really? Cool I'm better than a Rolecop.

All the more reason to not lynch me!

You're so hilarious.

J Reggie: "We should lynch RR because he claimed a PR that's good for scum to get."
RR: "No, my PR isn't that good."
faust: "Yes, in fact it's evne better than that."
RR: "Okay, all the more reason not to lynch me."

[Roadrunner7671]

Lynching RR because you don't believe him sucks. Lynch Jan first. Then lynch me if I lied.

It's not usually better this way around, or every scum ever could simply take a townie with them before they are lynched.

That said, I don't think I want to lynch you today.

Tell that to Yuma, Ashersky, Robz, and everyone else with 10 or more games in the retired section.

[faust]

Oh and faust, you do have something of a point, but voting Seprix is still insane.  Your entire argument there rests on Jan being scum anyway...

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure. I believe in letting outed scum stay alive. I'm sure there are town PRs out there that would love to target outed scum.

But I guess the most important point here is... RR, can you confirm with gkrieg whether you (and thus Jan) are able to self-target? That is important in this.

[faust]

Lynching RR because you don't believe him sucks. Lynch Jan first. Then lynch me if I lied.

It's not usually better this way around, or every scum ever could simply take a townie with them before they are lynched.

That said, I don't think I want to lynch you today.

Tell that to Yuma, Ashersky, Robz, and everyone else with 10 or more games in the retired section.

I don't get what you are talkig about.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh and faust, you do have something of a point, but voting Seprix is still insane.  Your entire argument there rests on Jan being scum anyway...

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure. I believe in letting outed scum stay alive. I'm sure there are town PRs out there that would love to target outed scum.

But I guess the most important point here is... RR, can you confirm with gkrieg whether you (and thus Jan) are able to self-target? That is important in this.

That's what I'm doing.

And I don't believe in letting outed scum stay alive.

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

[faust]

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

Because it's your role.

[Roadrunner7671]

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

Because it's your role.

No, what would I have to gain, Awaclus?

[faust]

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

Because it's your role.

No, what would I have to gain, Awaclus?

Not to get lynched today.

[Roadrunner7671]

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

Because it's your role.

No, what would I have to gain, Awaclus?

Not to get lynched today.

I wasn't going to get lynched today. So I'd resign myself to getting lynched tomorrow?

[faust]

But riddle me this Faust: If I was scum, why would I claim this?

Because it's your role.

No, what would I have to gain, Awaclus?

Not to get lynched today.

I wasn't going to get lynched today. So I'd resign myself to getting lynched tomorrow?

You were the only wagon to speak of, and at L-2 or L-1 or something. If you hadn't claimed, we would have lynched you, I'm pretty sure.

And yes, you'd resign to that. Better than getting lynched today. Or maybe you decided to sacrifice your partner for your own sake.

[Seprix]

I just had an epiphany. Of course we can also get RR's role to be confirmed by killing him as well. Duh! Okay, I think I understand why people were upset with me.

[Roadrunner7671]

I just had an epiphany. Of course we can also get RR's role to be confirmed by killing him as well. Duh! Okay, I think I understand why people were upset with me.

If I beat you at Dominion we don't lynch me okay?

[faust]

I just had an epiphany. Of course we can also get RR's role to be confirmed by killing him as well. Duh! Okay, I think I understand why people were upset with me.

If I beat you at Dominion we don't lynch me okay?

Bring it on.

[Seprix]

I guess killing him IS okay. I'd rather not do it, but Sylar's potential ability being on scum is a very dangerous proposition.

I just had an epiphany. Of course we can also get RR's role to be confirmed by killing him as well. Duh! Okay, I think I understand why people were upset with me.

If I beat you at Dominion we don't lynch me okay?

I'll play, but I'm not letting that affect my decision. 

[faust]

Ah, no you were talking to Seprix. Fine then.

[Seprix]

Ah, no you were talking to Seprix. Fine then.

I had a stupid 5/2 on an awful 5/2 opening board. He might beat me 

[Roadrunner7671]

Ah, no you were talking to Seprix. Fine then.

I had a stupid 5/2 on an awful 5/2 opening board. He might beat me 

Press X to doubt

[Haddock]

Ah, no you were talking to Seprix. Fine then.

I had a stupid 5/2 on an awful 5/2 opening board. He might beat me 

Is this really happening?  Whut?

[Roadrunner7671]

Ah, no you were talking to Seprix. Fine then.

I had a stupid 5/2 on an awful 5/2 opening board. He might beat me 

Is this really happening?  Whut?

He resigned

[faust]

I guess we're lynching Seprix then.

[Roadrunner7671]

I guess we're lynching Seprix then.

He definitely isn't lynching me.

But let's go Jan

[Seprix]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.5

Roadrunner7671(4): chairs, iguanaiguana, J Reggie, teamlyle
fontisian(1): silverspawn
Jan(4): Cellovix, Roadrunner7671, Seprix, Haddock
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(3): fontisian, Cron, faust

Not Voting(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[Haddock]

Has Jan even said anything?

[Roadrunner7671]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

Are you going to GenCon?

[Roadrunner7671]

Has Jan even said anything?

Jan's still VLAish

[Haddock]

Welp, we have some time.  I'd like to hear his side of things if possible.

[Seprix]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

Are you going to GenCon?

Probably not this year. But enough small talk. Back to the game.

[faust]

I guess we're lynching Seprix then.

He definitely isn't lynching me.

But let's go Jan

Maybe. Depends on how exactly the role works. So I'll wait until you have an answer from gkrieg.

[Roadrunner7671]

I can manipulate myself, but it doesn't protect against factional abilities.

[faust]

I can manipulate myself, but it doesn't protect against factional abilities.

Alright. That seems kinda arbitrary. Oh well.

I'd vote Jan now, but let's hear from him first.

[fontisian]

I'm going to gencon.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm going to gencon.

Awesome

[faust]

I'm going to gencon.

I like cookies.

What do you think about the game, and this particular situation?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm going to gencon.

I like cookies.

Me too

[J Reggie]

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure.

How do we know this? All we know is both of their roles (actually neither of them are confirmed; RR has just claimed both of them), which could conceivably be either scum roles or town roles. What if they're both town? Then we waste two days lynching town and not getting information out of anyone else. This whole claiming thing has been fun but has potentially given scum more info than they already had.

[faust]

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure.

How do we know this? All we know is both of their roles (actually neither of them are confirmed; RR has just claimed both of them), which could conceivably be either scum roles or town roles. What if they're both town? Then we waste two days lynching town and not getting information out of anyone else. This whole claiming thing has been fun but has potentially given scum more info than they already had.

I cannot see the role Jan supposedly has being a scum role. I might be somehow convinced if he gives a really satisfying flavor justification, but right now I don't see it.

[J Reggie]

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure.

How do we know this? All we know is both of their roles (actually neither of them are confirmed; RR has just claimed both of them), which could conceivably be either scum roles or town roles. What if they're both town? Then we waste two days lynching town and not getting information out of anyone else. This whole claiming thing has been fun but has potentially given scum more info than they already had.

I cannot see the role Jan supposedly has being a scum role. I might be somehow convinced if he gives a really satisfying flavor justification, but right now I don't see it.

Do you mean a town role? Because I can see it being a scum role for sure. It creates confusion. But I can also see RR's role being a scum role.

[Roadrunner7671]

I just had an epiphany. Of course we can also get RR's role to be confirmed by killing him as well. Duh! Okay, I think I understand why people were upset with me.

If I beat you at Dominion we don't lynch me okay?

Bring it on.

I saw this and if you're up for it, name a date and time.

[faust]

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure.

How do we know this? All we know is both of their roles (actually neither of them are confirmed; RR has just claimed both of them), which could conceivably be either scum roles or town roles. What if they're both town? Then we waste two days lynching town and not getting information out of anyone else. This whole claiming thing has been fun but has potentially given scum more info than they already had.

I cannot see the role Jan supposedly has being a scum role. I might be somehow convinced if he gives a really satisfying flavor justification, but right now I don't see it.

Do you mean a town role? Because I can see it being a scum role for sure. It creates confusion. But I can also see RR's role being a scum role.

Yes, of course that should be scum. I agree that RR's role makes sense for scum too; the question is whether the flavor fits this.

[faust]

Town. I mean town! Dammit.

[J Reggie]

Town. I mean town! Dammit.

If I were Awaclus, I'd probably say this was a Freudian slip. 

[chairs]

this is all sorts of woo.

[fontisian]

After RR's stuff last game, I do not trust his pr claim, but think it makes him town.

So, like, let's kill Seprix.

[Roadrunner7671]

After RR's stuff last game, I do not trust his pr claim, but think it makes him town.

So, like, let's kill Seprix.

My PR claim can be confirmed by Jan but whatever

[teamlyle]

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

I agree. Sorry RR!

Vote: Roadrunner

You are too easily swayed by emotional appeals. Don't you think killing RR is a very very bad idea!?
[/quote]

Well, it's a risk. I'd say that we'd much rather lynch an innocent RR than let RR use this ability as scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

I say we lynch Jan. I am not scum.

[Jan]

Woohoo ..

I am absolutly not caught up but what the fuck is going on?

Champs game will go into nightphase in like 5 hours. I will take a look at this game then.

In the meantime I would like the people voting on me to say why without saying that I am not active enough right now (because we can agree that that is nothing more than a sad excuse for pushing an easy misslynch on a fucking player who is not defending himself at the time).

So if you have anything close to balls come at me with anything but your fucked up excuses.

/Out until later.

[Roadrunner7671]

Jan hasn't read the thread

[Jan]

No shit I haven't. I just scimmed over a few bits and can confirm that I am a busdriver role .. Good fucking job at outting that shit.

Like this is not only one of the best roles it is also a town role.

Here check the fucking wiki :
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver

Why would you not have checked the fucking wiki in the first place`? It would have told you things like :
"Bus Driver has been seen as each alignment and historically is a pro-Town role"
or
"As a pro-Town power role, Bus Driver is similar to a Doctor in that it can prevent a player from being killed if the Bus Driver targets them each Night"

Go ahead kill the person with the best fucking role in the god damn game. I mean you did it last game with your genius idea of the CfD on awaclus instead of lynching the outted scum that I tried to kill all day.

Will be back tonight. I basically only read roadrunners reveal by now which revealed so much about the state of his mind to me.

If you want to speedlynch me in the meantime. Go ahead.

[Seprix]

As a pro-Town power role, Bus Driver is similar to a Doctor in that it can prevent a player from being killed if the Bus Driver targets them each Night. However, it does not stop the kill on its own, so it is not as much of a disadvantage to scum if used in this way. With that said, it is far more likely that the Bus Driver will hurt the other power roles as their actions get unexpectedly redirected by the Bus Driver's choices. Thus, it is not considered a great power role.

If using a pro-Town Bus Driver, it is important to consider how the Bus Driver can cause broken combinations. In particular, including a Bulletproof in the game can allow a Bus Driver to functionally become a Doctor.

As an anti-Town power role, Bus Driver is rather potent.

Quit lying.

[Seprix]

Jan needs to die.

[Roadrunner7671]

I've never seen a town bus driver!

And I thought Bus Driver switched players A and B, not sent all actions from Player A onto Player B

[Roadrunner7671]

Jan needs to die.

[J Reggie]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

[Roadrunner7671]

I agree he's scummy but being a bus driver is also scummy!

[Seprix]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

[Jan]

I don't give a single fuck about what you think.

I am town. You missed out on the most important part of my role btw.

I also get a copy of the results of anyone targeting the player (cop/tracks/watches etc)

This is basically a fucking pimped out role and you are killing me.

Oh btw his claim is almost always town. Unless the mod removed one of the most important characters in the game to give the fake claim to the most important villian of the series (sylar) who basically has the same power but for him it includes the ability/posibility to kill the people when leeching their power.

Why didn't you claim my full power RR?

[Roadrunner7671]

I didn't receive your full power. Only the active role that I get to copy.
Unvote

I screwed up I think 

[Seprix]

Jan is Sylar then. Got it.

[Jan]

You can just kill me, but kill Seprix tomorrow for his shitshow push here.

The good thing is that I am living on borrowed time anyway because both me and RR will just die in the night now.

ggwp

[silverspawn]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

[J Reggie]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

[Seprix]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Okay, the exception to the rule. We have three days, but a lot has happened. Come on, let's talk seriously here.

[silverspawn]

The case on Jan is not suddenly invalid just because he claims that he's town. Of course he claims to be town.

Redirecting roles are scum more often than not. Bus driver can be both. It is what you would expect scum!Jan to claim.

Right now, lynching Jan is still the most logical option.

[Roadrunner7671]

But the add on...is that a lie do you think?

[faust]

Jan, I need a flavor claim from you.

[faust]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

I don't remember a single f.ds RMM in which this was the case.

[faust]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

Well, you're scum too, have you forgotten?

[silverspawn]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

I don't remember a single f.ds RMM in which this was the case.

I do. There was one game where it was specifically mentioned.

But that's not really the point. The point is that having one or two outed roles is not that horrible in RMM. Even if there was one or two VT's, scum would still probably hit PR's anyway, no matter whom they shoot. Plus doctors n stuff.

[faust]

The sad thing is that you could have done a much better job at determining whether or not Jan is scum with the information that RR had, if he didn't screw up that much.

[silverspawn]

That is true.

[Seprix]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

Well, you're scum too, have you forgotten?

Not so "Faust". Prove it.

[faust]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

Well, you're scum too, have you forgotten?

Not so "Faust". Prove it.

Why is my name in quotation marks? Is that some sort of code?

[J Reggie]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

Well, you're scum too, have you forgotten?

Not so "Faust". Prove it.

Why is my name in quotation marks? Is that some sort of code?

Yeah, he's communicating something to his scumbuddies.

[Seprix]

vote: Seprix.  I think RR and Jan are both town, and RR just made an unfortunate blunder. Seprix's reaction to all this is scummy.

Scum team is J Reggie and Jan. Dunno who the third is. What an easy game!

Well, you're scum too, have you forgotten?

Not so "Faust". Prove it.

Why is my name in quotation marks? Is that some sort of code?

Not so fast. Not so, Faust. Come on, I thought it was a great play on words.

[iguanaiguana]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

I've read everything to here and this is the first obvious lie that stood out to me.

[iguanaiguana]

I don't give a single fuck about what you think.

That's sad!

I am town.

Me too! We should work together.

[iguanaiguana]

You can just kill me, but kill Seprix tomorrow for his shitshow push here.

Seems odd, why don't we just kill Seprix today?

Not very efficient I'd say.

[iguanaiguana]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Is this a soft claim!?

[J Reggie]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

I've read everything to here and this is the first obvious lie that stood out to me.

Yeah, what? What games are those? Fruit Ninja?

[iguanaiguana]

Cool, I'm all caught up now. My thoughts are these two:

Unvote

I'm gunna go play pokemon go!

[iguanaiguana]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

I've read everything to here and this is the first obvious lie that stood out to me.

Yeah, what? What games are those? Fruit Ninja?

Dominion games. The lie is that there's nothing he could have done to win the games. YMYOSL and all (RIP AdamH on F.ds).

[Seprix]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

I've read everything to here and this is the first obvious lie that stood out to me.

Yeah, what? What games are those? Fruit Ninja?

Dominion games. The lie is that there's nothing he could have done to win the games. YMYOSL and all (RIP AdamH on F.ds).

Try opening 5/2 on a board where the only $5 is Explorer.

[J Reggie]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Is this a soft claim!?

Kinda, not really. I'm guessing based on a little information I indirectly have that there is one in this game. It's not that big a deal.

[Seprix]

People are soft claiming like crazy here.

[J Reggie]

I lost two of the three games against Roadrunner. Maybe I played too fast, but I don't think there was much I could do in those games.

I've read everything to here and this is the first obvious lie that stood out to me.

Yeah, what? What games are those? Fruit Ninja?

Dominion games. The lie is that there's nothing he could have done to win the games. YMYOSL and all (RIP AdamH on F.ds).

Try opening 5/2 on a board where the only $5 is Explorer.

They can't all be the best...
Oh never mind

[teamlyle]

I think I'll vote for Jan. He didn't even have many votes before today but when he gets a few, he makes a big stink, and I'm guessing all those swear words were to stir up emotion and say "leave me alone."

I hope I'm not too biased as I am very against swear words.

vote: Jan

[teamlyle]

^ anyway you can often tell if people are lying as they'll get super frustrated.

[J Reggie]

I think I'll vote for Jan. He didn't even have many votes before today but when he gets a few, he makes a big stink, and I'm guessing all those swear words were to stir up emotion and say "leave me alone."

I hope I'm not too biased as I am very against swear words.

vote: Jan

I think he was mostly mad his PR was outed.

[iguanaiguana]

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Is this a soft claim!?

Kinda, not really. I'm guessing based on a little information I indirectly have that there is one in this game. It's not that big a deal.

oh dude I was just joking, I didn't want you to say anything : /

[iguanaiguana]

I also really want to soft claim tho becuase I've got this really funny meme idea....

[iguanaiguana]

well not that funny.

[Roadrunner7671]

Swear words tend to make me unvote

[silverspawn]

I swear that words can be used to swear swears.

[Jan]

Character claim  (if there is a char vig then you deserve losing but whatever)
Angella Petrelli

If you want me to talk about what her ability is, feel free to ask me. (but you should look it up yourself because you can't trust my info on myself anyway).

I am Roadrunners mother, which is a fun turn of events.

I just finished 2 EoDs in two different games. I might not be that active while you think about my claim. (or fall asleep since it is 3:30 am)

Will for sure be up to date after waking up.

[Cellovix]

Sorry, still dealing with some extreme Real Life issues. I will be able to catch up and resume posting within 24 hours.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

@Moderator - please replace me if I do not post within 24 hours of this post, as it means I will not be able to adequately.

[silverspawn]

I feel like this is a situation in which there is a lot of information that will likely be overlooked, specifically in the details and timing. I think it'd be wise to go through both claims and look what has been posted in which exact order. I think I'll be able to do that tomorrow.

Right now town/scum in either direction and town/town seem all possible. That's not good, I'm sure we can do better.

[iguanaiguana]

Swear words tend to make me unvote

You should have more conviction. What if you're right! Wouldn't that be neat?

[iguanaiguana]

+ I'm curious too and kinda want to hammer.

[Roadrunner7671]

Swear words tend to make me unvote

You should have more conviction. What if you're right! Wouldn't that be neat?

It would be exceptional! But now I'm worried. It was easier to vote for Jan when Jan wasn't present

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.6

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
fontisian(1): silverspawn
Jan(4): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(4): fontisian, Cron, faust, J Reggie

Not Voting(2): Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

Iguanaiguana and I will probably both vote Jan...

[Seprix]

I just realized, I won't be here for the July 17th deadline.

[iguanaiguana]

Iguanaiguana and I will probably both vote Jan...

Let's do it.

Vote: Jan

Grumpy McSwearyscum needs to die.

[Haddock]

Well, Jan's impassioned pleas are kinda semi-convincing I guess?  But I don't think I've ever seen a redirect ability on f.ds which was town-aligned, and I bet gkrieg hasn't either. 
I'm not completely opposed to lynching elsewhere but Jan seems the sensible place for now still. 
Silver's right, some careful reading might yield something.  I don't have time right now, but maybe tonight.

[silverspawn]

Well, Jan's impassioned pleas are kinda semi-convincing I guess?  But I don't think I've ever seen a redirect ability on f.ds which was town-aligned, and I bet gkrieg hasn't either. 

Really? Pretty sure I have.

[Haddock]

Well I've only played 2 previous RMM games.  Both I prefer to forget so it was possible there was something there.
Pretty sure I haven't seen it in a normal setup.

[silverspawn]

Alright, first the claims.

And they are already not clear.

I want Jan and RR to specify their roles-- first Jan. It is unlikely to reveal any more important information to scum.

If you think it does, then say that I guess.

[Roadrunner7671]

Seems like a good idea

[Jan]

Alright, first the claims.

And they are already not clear.

I want Jan and RR to specify their roles-- first Jan. It is unlikely to reveal any more important information to scum.

If you think it does, then say that I guess.

What do you want from me?!

I assume I am not allowed to quote qts.

My ability is split into two :
1. Manipulate Fate : I can target two players and all abilities targeting player A will target player B instead.
2. Future Sight : I will receive the results of the people targeting player A (who therefore targeted b)

My character is Angela Petrelli, the Dreamer.

Funny enough Angela is not even 100% one of the good guys, well at least not in every season. She fucks up a bit along the way because her visions make her do things for the greater good basically.

I am unsure what else you want to hear about my claim to be honest. I can talk lore, but I doubt that helps anyone, because you can just read up on characters yourself (and since we are talking about me, you cannot trust what i say anyway).

I can tell you that Roadrunner can be one of two roles with his claim. Peter Petrelli or Sylar.
If Sylar got Peter Petrelli (main protagonist) as fake claim then it is kind of weird, but I guess the sherlock game did not include John Watson as character in the game.
Still RR is almost always town. Get paranoid about him if he doesn't die ever.


Sylar can be scum or 3p, depends on how the game is set up. He is more a solo guy in the movie and the bad guys are hunting him (and capturing him) in parts of it, but he is going after power from everyone.
So if the scumteam includes just overall bad characters, then he can be scum.
If the scumteam is basically the organisation thingy of the series, then he is almost always 3p. (there is no way he is not in this game, making a heroes game without the most charismatic villian who has the most overpowered ability, unlikely).
Oh yeah and if Sylar is in the game and 3p, then he most likely has some auto win mechanic if he ever gets to kill Claire Bennett, the cheerleader.

[silverspawn]

I only wanted this:

My ability is split into two :
1. Manipulate Fate : I can target two players and all abilities targeting player A will target player B instead.
2. Future Sight : I will receive the results of the people targeting player A (who therefore targeted b)

Because you previously talked about busdriver, and it was not clear from whom of the two you get results. This isn't busdriver though, it's just a one-way redirecting.

So what if A's power is not investigative? Then Future sight does nothing?

that's fine though. RR? I also don't think your claim was precise.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have two powers:

I can target a player at night to learn their active power.

I can do the power I learned about the previous night.

[Jan]

I only wanted this:

My ability is split into two :
1. Manipulate Fate : I can target two players and all abilities targeting player A will target player B instead.
2. Future Sight : I will receive the results of the people targeting player A (who therefore targeted b)

Because you previously talked about busdriver, and it was not clear from whom of the two you get results. This isn't busdriver though, it's just a one-way redirecting.

So what if A's power is not investigative? Then Future sight does nothing?

that's fine though. RR? I also don't think your claim was precise.

i call it busdriver from videomafia more or less. true it is only redirect since it is one way.
the point is not a's power.
the people using a power on a. i will get a copy on their result, or rather their action will get transferred to b and i will get a copy of the result they get.

if rr targets a then i will get the rolecop result thingy. or a copcheck or whatever roleblock may get as result.
so if a cop checks a and i redirect it to b and b is green, then i will know that.

it is a weird utility role. rly powerful, but you have to be careful about swapping someones check and should normally leave some sort of soft, in case you die in the night and flip.

[silverspawn]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

[Jan]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

good question. it is a 2nd ability, maybe he only gets one of them. and getting only that would be useless.

[Roadrunner7671]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

[Cellovix]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

[silverspawn]

huh. That's an unusual mechanic. Could imply a theme of several-ability packages.

[Haddock]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

"Confirms" may be strong. RR is clever enough to know this and invent the word factional.

But I do think RR is probably town anyway.

[silverspawn]

I don't think how it says anything about RR's alignment. it's sensible that you can only steal non-factional abilities, even if you yourself have factional abilities.

[silverspawn]

Okay the time line is actually not complicated. RR just does his claim -- it's consistent with what he said now -- and others question him for his odd delivery, and eventually Jan responds.

[silverspawn]

So here is the thing.

gkrieg probably went at this RMM by coming up with a lot of unique roles. Just give town a lot of  unique roles and compensate some way and try to make it balanced. Maybe a double ability theme.

But if you do that, then it's not a stretch to give a redirecting to scum. On the other hand even if both(?) factions have a redirecting, it's still solid evidence because it increases his chance to be scum to 50%.

He could also be a SK or something.

So... there is really nothing conclusive we can get from that. At least I can't.

Although I do dislike the way faust handled the claim. Instead of trying to figure out details, his reaction was to go after Seprix for his reaction, which I didn't even find scummy. let's vote: faust

[silverspawn]

*not a stretch to give a redirecting to town.

That's really a problem you have. Coming up with enough different roles is hard.

[Cellovix]

I've never heard the phrase factional abilities used, so maybe it's a thing more common on this site. Fair enough then.  Just seemed like a possible smoking gun.

I want to lynch Jan.  I poked at him for active lurking, and he attacked me with a disproportionate response for just trying to get him to play the game rather than make fluff posts about flavor.  Over-defensive in nature.  Tack on the, again, disproportionate emotional response to the role reveal and I think he's very likely to be scum.

I strongly encourage people to go back and look at the back and forth between us - my vote was strictly a case where I saw he was posting mostly flavor related things with no attempt to figure out he game, so poked him to try and see where he was at, and he attacked back pretty hard in a non-genuine manner.  Should be the cherry on top of the plausibly scum role.

[Cellovix]

The case on Jan is not suddenly invalid just because he claims that he's town. Of course he claims to be town.

Redirecting roles are scum more often than not. Bus driver can be both. It is what you would expect scum!Jan to claim.

Right now, lynching Jan is still the most logical option.

Can you explain how you transition from this to voting Faust?  I know you're saying it could be town, but I'd like you to lay out why it's no longer the most logical course of action to you.  I don't even mind your vote, I just want to try and see how you're thinking here.

[silverspawn]

Because one is a mechanical reason and one is a content reason. If I vote for Jan than he has nothing to defend himself for, since he is either mafia or happened to be unlucky. So I'd move on with the game, and at the end of the day we can decide if whatever cases are around then are better than the Jan thing. If not, we can still lynch him.

[Cellovix]

Would you mind looking back at the interaction Jan and I had earlier?  I use interaction loosely because it was me voting him for active lurking, and then him attacking me in response, but it's the only thing he's really done that can be defined as content.

[fontisian]

So here is the thing.

gkrieg probably went at this RMM by coming up with a lot of unique roles. Just give town a lot of  unique roles and compensate some way and try to make it balanced. Maybe a double ability theme.

But if you do that, then it's not a stretch to give a redirecting to scum. On the other hand even if both(?) factions have a redirecting, it's still solid evidence because it increases his chance to be scum to 50%.

He could also be a SK or something.

So... there is really nothing conclusive we can get from that. At least I can't.

Although I do dislike the way faust handled the claim. Instead of trying to figure out details, his reaction was to go after Seprix for his reaction, which I didn't even find scummy. let's vote: faust

Actually, that was me. Hi.

[Cellovix]

Hi Fontisian.  While you are here, would you mind talking about your general view on the game a bit? You've mostly spent the game kind of swapping from one tunnel to another with very little engagement, and I don't actually know what you think about most of the playerlist.

[Cellovix]

To be fair I don't even know what I think about most of the playerlist, but that's why I'm asking people questions I guess.

[Roadrunner7671]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

"Confirms" may be strong. RR is clever enough to know this and invent the word factional.

But I do think RR is probably town anyway.

When I think of RR, 'clever' is not the first word that comes to mind.

[Cellovix]

That's not very nic-

*looks at username*

Oh. 

[Cellovix]

Hey RR. If Jan flips town, who do you think looks the worst from the reveal and subsequent interactions?  What about if he flips scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

Hey RR. If Jan flips town, who do you think looks the worst from the reveal and subsequent interactions?  What about if he flips scum?

If he flips town I think I look the worst lol. No, I look the second worse, behind Seprix.

I haven't given much thought to eho looks bad if he flips scum. Teamlyle looks good, Seprix looks okay, Faust looks slighty scummy I suppose.

But I'll be able to answer these questions tomorrow. Right? Right?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.7

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
faust(1): silverspawn
Jan(5): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle, iguanaiguana {L-2}
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(4): fontisian, Cron, faust, J Reggie

Not Voting(1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends Sunday July 17, 12PM forum time

[iguanaiguana]

Hey RR. If Jan flips town, who do you think looks the worst from the reveal and subsequent interactions?  What about if he flips scum?

If he flips town I think I look the worst lol. No, I look the second worse, behind Seprix.

I haven't given much thought to eho looks bad if he flips scum. Teamlyle looks good, Seprix looks okay, Faust looks slighty scummy I suppose.

But I'll be able to answer these questions tomorrow. Right? Right?

not if you die!

[silverspawn]

Actually, that was me. Hi.

You also did it, but for you it's not scummy.

[faust]

So here is the thing.

gkrieg probably went at this RMM by coming up with a lot of unique roles. Just give town a lot of  unique roles and compensate some way and try to make it balanced. Maybe a double ability theme.

But if you do that, then it's not a stretch to give a redirecting to scum. On the other hand even if both(?) factions have a redirecting, it's still solid evidence because it increases his chance to be scum to 50%.

He could also be a SK or something.

So... there is really nothing conclusive we can get from that. At least I can't.

Although I do dislike the way faust handled the claim. Instead of trying to figure out details, his reaction was to go after Seprix for his reaction, which I didn't even find scummy. let's vote: faust

I may be OMGUSing a bit, but this just reads super-fake. I don't buy that you get nothing from the whole RR/Jan situation, I don't. There we have two confirmed redirective roles (RR has it now that he targeted Jan), and you're simply willing to let that slide, making every action we take tonight have questionable results? And we don't play "outguess the mod". It mostly ends badly.

I don't know what kind of "details" I did presumably not try to figure out. You mean the claims you forced? Everything that Jan and RR said was already posted, except the Future sight thingy, and that would be the one that would best be kept hidden. So I posit that you asking for "details" was actually an anti-town move. I, on the other hand, asked for a flavor claim, which helped a lot more because it helped me figure out whether his power lines up with the flavor (it does). I also asked for clarification on whether self-targeting is possible as that was relevant information to determine whether we can afford to let scum!redirectors live (they can self-target though, so we should not let them live).

I meant to vote for Jan a while ago (I think I even posted something to that extent), but did not want a quickhammer. And you find me scummy for what, disagreeing with you? Come on, you can do better than that.

[faust]

Because one is a mechanical reason and one is a content reason. If I vote for Jan than he has nothing to defend himself for, since he is either mafia or happened to be unlucky. So I'd move on with the game, and at the end of the day we can decide if whatever cases are around then are better than the Jan thing. If not, we can still lynch him.

It is the end of the day. Deadline is Sunday, so we have only a weekend left; you know how weekends tend to go. Also I am VLA playing Empires all of Saturday and most of Sunday, so don't expect much from me after tonight.

[faust]

Thus, it is time to Vote: Jan.

I would also point out that his reaction didn't feel genuine and that I cannot begin to understand why he, as town, would choose to reveal his Future Sight ability.

[faust]

Scum team is silver/Jan/Seprix. Easy.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner, do something heroic for once and hammer the scum! Sacrifice yourself!!!!

[iguanaiguana]

I BELIEVE IN YOU

[silverspawn]

I don't know what kind of "details" I did presumably not try to figure out. You mean the claims you forced? Everything that Jan and RR said was already posted, except the Future sight thingy, and that would be the one that would best be kept hidden. So I posit that you asking for "details" was actually an anti-town move. I, on the other hand, asked for a flavor claim, which helped a lot more because it helped me figure out whether his power lines up with the flavor (it does). I also asked for clarification on whether self-targeting is possible as that was relevant information to determine whether we can afford to let scum!redirectors live (they can self-target though, so we should not let them live).

Why are you lying?

Jan was talking about bus driver, which contradicted with RR's claim of what he did.

RR claimed a role that would copy another player's role, but had only received part of that role.

We didn't know how RR's role was phrased, which is important for its believability.

In other words, it was nowhere near clear or "already posted".

Further details could have easily shown that one of them is lying. They didn't. The claims both ended up being believable. That does not mean that trying it wasn't the right way to go, instead of randomly pursuing a Seprix case which you now already gave up. What happened?

Huge red flag here. This does not feel like town!faust.

[faust]

Why are you lying?

I'm not. Nice try though.

Jan was talking about bus driver, which contradicted with RR's claim of what he did.

He did not say that RR's info was wrong, so I understood that "Bus Driver" meant "Redirector" for him.

RR claimed a role that would copy another player's role, but had only received part of that role.

No, he claimed it would copy a "night action ability", not a role.

We didn't know how RR's role was phrased, which is important for its believability.

We still don't know how it is phrased, because quoting is forbidden.

Further details could have easily shown that one of them is lying. They didn't. The claims both ended up being believable. That does not mean that trying it wasn't the right way to go, instead of randomly pursuing a Seprix case which you now already gave up. What happened?

Please read. I already said I would switch to Jan (if not for quickhammers) before you even voted for me. I gave up the Seprix lynch as soon as I learned that Jan could self-target.

[silverspawn]

Jan was talking about bus driver, which contradicted with RR's claim of what he did.

He did not say that RR's info was wrong, so I understood that "Bus Driver" meant "Redirector" for him.

We both know that relying on guesses when analyzing claims would be horrendously stupid.

No, he claimed it would copy a "night action ability", not a role.

so... what? it was a contradiction. You can't seriously tell me that because he used the word "a" instead of "all" it was immediately obvious that it only copies one action. It was a claim from Roadrunner. Not to mention that the mechanic is unusual in the first place.

We still don't know how it is phrased, because quoting is forbidden.

You probably know what I mean. we now know it's a 2 parter, and that there might be a 2part theme. that changes the believability of both claims. any such thing could have happened.

[faust]

No, he claimed it would copy a "night action ability", not a role.

so... what? it was a contradiction. You can't seriously tell me that because he used the word "a" instead of "all" it was immediately obvious that it only copies one action. It was a claim from Roadrunner. Not to mention that the mechanic is unusual in the first place.

There was no contradiction until you asked Jan to specify, because before that he only said that his role had some other part (which could very well have been passive or something). I do not think that Jan specifying his role helped town.

We still don't know how it is phrased, because quoting is forbidden.

You probably know what I mean. we now know it's a 2 parter, and that there might be a 2part theme. that changes the believability of both claims. any such thing could have happened.

I guess the difference between our approaches is that I never doubted that both claims were true (i.e. their true roles) after Jan confirmed RR's accusations.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.8

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
faust(1): silverspawn
Jan(6): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, faust {L-1}
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(3): fontisian, Cron, J Reggie

Not Voting(1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends Sunday July 17, 12PM forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunner, do something heroic for once and hammer the scum! Sacrifice yourself!!!!

I actually don't think I'll get night killed but I don't want to take the risk yet. I'm around this weekend.

[faust]

Roadrunner, do something heroic for once and hammer the scum! Sacrifice yourself!!!!

I actually don't think I'll get night killed but I don't want to take the risk yet. I'm around this weekend.

What are you waiting for, precisely?

[Seprix]

That nobody is lynching Jan is telling.

[faust]

That nobody is lynching Jan is telling.

I'm not sure what you mean. I've only put him to L-1 recently, and the only players to have posted since are RR and silverspawn.

[Seprix]

That nobody is lynching Jan is telling.

I'm not sure what you mean. I've only put him to L-1 recently, and the only players to have posted since are RR and silverspawn.

People have been watching.

[silverspawn]

vote: Jan
vote: faust
unvote

I don't know.

[faust]

vote: Jan
vote: faust
unvote

I don't know.

That must be the derpiest derphammer that has ever been derped.

[silverspawn]

Jan's vote does make a lot of sense as a scum role. That's undeniable. Redirect and investigative in a package.

I think it might be good if people state whom they want to lynch right now. For me it's only faust and Jan who are options. RR is towny, Seprix is towny, font is only slightly scummy and the rest seems not to have been in the game.

[silverspawn]

aw crap

[faust]

It should be a hammer though, right? I mean... each vote counts, even if a vote follows in the very same post.

[silverspawn]

yes

why did no-one say anything? don't we have announces on L-1? I had no idea that he was even close.

[faust]

yes

why did no-one say anything? don't we have announces on L-1? I had no idea that he was even close.

There is a vote count on this very page that states that Jan is at L-1. I did say I did not want to vote him before because I did not want to risk a quickhammer.

[silverspawn]

I didn't read the vote count. I just saw "vote count" and moved on.

[faust]

Well, it's good to have night fall on the weekend I guess.

[silverspawn]

well sorry @Jan if you're town. Even a bit if you're not.

fwiw it was my first ever accidental hammer.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.final

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
Jan(7): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, faust, silverspawn
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(3): fontisian, Cron, J Reggie

Not Voting(1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.

[silverspawn]

... ... ... ...

[silverspawn]

okay I assume we have extended Twilight? anyone still here?

[gkrieg13]

Nathan Petrelli was focusing all of his energy now to find out who or what was behind these kidnappings.  He had had a few leads in the past week, but they just kept coming up empty.

But there was one person left on his list.  Jan had all the makings of a criminal.  He got angry under pressure and he had an incriminating history with the people he came into contact with.

Nathan decided to sit down with Jan to try to figure out his involvement with this whole thing.

"Hello Jan"

"Well hello Nathan.  It's been a while."

Somehow that voice is familiar, but where have I heard it before?

"Do you remember me?  Ah.  My son must've gotten to you."

His son?  Who could it be?

"Ah yes, he has gone into your mind and erased your memory of me.  Probably a good thing after I drove you mad."

But, Matt is the only person I know who can do that. 

Realization set in on Nathan's face as he realized he was face to face with Maurie Parkman, the Mind Bender.

"I should've known that you would be involved in this somehow.  Where have you been taking the evos?"

"You'll never find them!", screamed Maurie. 


Jan has been lynched.  He was Maurie Parkman, the Mind Bender

[gkrieg13]

N1 begins now and ends Sunday July 17, 10PM forum time.

THREAD LOCKED

[gkrieg13]

Also night actions due in 36 hours from this post

[gkrieg13]

The Night Action Submission Window Has Passed!

[gkrieg13]

Feeling good about catching the person behind the disappearances had Nathan in a great mood.  He was hopping and skipping on his way to work.  When he got to work he sat down at his desk and started to bask in his accomplishment.  After a bit, he looked up and couldn't believe his eyes.

His brother was standing there with a look of horror in his eyes.  Peter?  Is that you

Peter collapsed to the ground.

Nathan rushed over to comfort his brother and realized it was already too late.  Peter was dead.


Roadrunner7671 has been killed!  He was Peter Petrelli, The Good Brother.


Day 2 begins now!

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting(11): JReggie, Cellovix, silverspawn, Chairs, Faust, Seprix, fontisian, iguanaiguana, Cron, Haddock, teamlyle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Wednesday July 27, 9PM

THREAD UNLOCKED

[Seprix]

Why am I not surprised RR died.

[Seprix]

vote: Faust to start. He voted me and then jumped on Jan later on when it was inevitable Jan was going out the door. Not the strongest case yet, so Faust is going to be my first reread. Who knows, maybe he'll be alright.

[Seprix]

I can't believe I might have to say this either, but NOBODY REVEAL ROLES. Sylar likely exists and has likely stolen RR's powers. The more roles scum knows, the more power they get.

[iguanaiguana]

uh Vote: Seprix

rofl

[J Reggie]

vote: faust.  He always dies night one as town.

More seriously, though, my watch list is Seprix, Faust and SS.  I feel like Faust and SS can read each other pretty well, so one of them is probably scum. 

[Seprix]

uh Vote: Seprix

rofl

Yeah, just ignore that because of me, Jan was lynched.

[J Reggie]

For the record I did not think Jan would flip scum.  I was quite wrong there.  It was a happy surprise though. 

[faust]

Hum. I have reason to believe that the people voting for me are town.

[faust]

vote: Faust to start. He voted me and then jumped on Jan later on when it was inevitable Jan was going out the door. Not the strongest case yet, so Faust is going to be my first reread. Who knows, maybe he'll be alright.

This is, by the way, a completely wrong account of how I played that day. I asked whether Jan could self-target, because I thought that if he couldn't, we would be able to neutralize him and did not need to kill him. When it became clear that he could self-target, I supported the lynch. This makes little sense if I was his scum partner, because then I would probably know that he could self-target.

[faust]

Vote: silverspawn sounds good.

I wonder why RR didn't save himself.

[silverspawn]

Ha! I claim IC.

[silverspawn]

I further claim to be amazing at the game. You should all follow my lead now.

[silverspawn]

I shall start leading now.

Seprix is off the table for today.

faust is a suspect. As is the Seprix wagon, i.e. Cron, JReggie, and fontisian. We should probably lynch among those.

[silverspawn]

vote: faust

[silverspawn]

Sorry I've been murky,  phone posting. Totaled my car on Tuesday and so having to deal with that shit a lot. Will be posting more soon I promise. Also vote: teamlyle

above you see chairs only post that is longer than one line.

Admittedly it includes a good reason not to have long posts. Even so, he should probably step things up.

[faust]

faust is a suspect. As is the Seprix wagon, i.e. Cron, JReggie, and fontisian. We should probably lynch among those.

How am I a suspect again?

[silverspawn]

- You opposed the wagon at first and jumped on it late and very controlled, hence don't get the same amount of towncred that most others get

- same reasons I pushed you yesterday

- voting for me now is ooc for town!you, who would know better.

[faust]

- You opposed the wagon at first and jumped on it late and very controlled, hence don't get the same amount of towncred that most others get

This is just misrepresentation. See my earlier response to Seprix.

- same reasons I pushed you yesterday

Which I already responded to then.

- voting for me now is ooc for town!you, who would know better.

Stupid OMGUS argument.

[J Reggie]

I shall start leading now.

Seprix is off the table for today.

faust is a suspect. As is the Seprix wagon, i.e. Cron, JReggie, and fontisian. We should probably lynch among those.

"One of my partners was lynched already. Let's kill everyone who suspected my other partner. "

[faust]

Yeah, I don't really see why the Seprix wagon would be suspicious (other than general off-wagon reasoning). Cron, J Reggie and fontisian are all among my townier reads.

[faust]

Jan and Cellovix have been at each other's throats for most of D1. I would say this makes Cellovix somewhat townier, but then I don't have a lot of meta on those two.

[J Reggie]

vote: ss seems wiser at the moment. But ss and Faust need to duke it out.

[chairs]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Sorry I can't get into this. My role is meh at best.

[faust]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Sorry I can't get into this. My role is meh at best.

Why would one say such a thing?

[Cron]

I don't see how Jan flip clear seprix. Also I've seen Jan go hard on a partner before, so Im not clearing cellovix, but I don't think I'd consider him a good lynch today

Fonti is still my higher end town and j Reggie hasn't done anything that would make scum read him yet, so from my perspective I'm fairly certain at least one partner bussed him. Jan was dying, if I was nafia I would've attacked him hard, he was a sinking ship.

Chairs did nothing at this point. I like his recent post though and wouldn't lynch.

[silverspawn]

Stupid OMGUS argument.

Suspecting someone for voting you ≠ OMGUS.

You obviously acknowledged  that the hammer was accidental

vote: Jan
vote: faust
unvote

I don't know.

That must be the derpiest derphammer that has ever been derped.

And as such, it is inconceivable to have come from scum. Town!You would know this. Therefore, you're not town.

[silverspawn]

The Jan flip does not clear Seprix. Seprix is towny per-se. The people on his wagon are suspects for having pushed the largest alternative over a confirmed mafia player.

[silverspawn]

Let's look at faust's stances day 1:

first, his reads list pre-claim:

I feel like I need to organize my reads. They are al over the place. Let's see. Town to scum:

JReggie
Seprix
fontisian
cron
teamlyle
Jan

Chairs
iguanaiguana

silverspawn
RoadRunner7671
Cellovix
Haddock

Jan as the lightest town read.

Then the claim comes (not yet formulated). Whom he votes for-- no not Jan, it's RR.

Also, RR, I have to wonder: How did you perform a N0 action if you only read your role PM at the start of D1?

Vote: RR

I have no idea whatsoever what he's doing, but it is certain that he's lying and rolefishing.

Roadrunner, I will not vote somewhere else unless you full claim. Not saying that I will if you do, but at least there is a nonzero chance.

If this backfires... Well, we'll find out then, but I'm pretty sure RR is just an IC now?

I'm pretty sure he's not. Weren't you willing to vote for him earlier? What the heck changed?

So far, I also don't get the mechanical reason for RR to be able to perform an action N0. That is very unusual here, and I don't see a compelling case for a Rolecop to have that ability.

He did his best to throw suspicion at RR.

But that is not even the point. This is worse:

I cannot help but feel that Seprix's treatment of the RR situation is pretty scummy.

Not scummy.  Just wrong.
Obviously lynching conf!town is bad. 

But in the hypothetical situation where we can't decide which of RR and Jan to lynch (and I really think we have to lynch one of them today), Reggie's reasoning is as good as any. 

PPE 3.

It is scummy. He changes his view as soon as he learns that RR saw that Jan has a redirective power. If Seprix is Jan's partner, he knows this information to be correct, so he knows RR isn't just shitting around. Form then on, he treats RR as conf!town.

You know what? Vote: Seprix

After RR claimed (according to faust, nothing had to be added), he decided to push Seprix instead. Obviously, it's in his interest now to pretend now as if pushing Seprix was not scummy.

He was the alternative to a scum wagon. Of course being on that is scummy.

In my defense, I did not know the information RR revealed would be so strikingly great for town.

And how did this influence your read on RR, exactly?

It would have been much better for RR to not say anything at all of course. And (I think it was your argument?) was somewhat convincing, but we have a chance to confirm once and for all whether RR's claim is legitimate or not. I think this is so important for D1.

Well, lynching RR also confirms whether his claim is legitimate. And you did not argue that we should lynch Jan because it provides information about RR, you argued that we should lynch him because RR is "basically an IC".

At #637 he decides to back off:

Lynching RR because you don't believe him sucks. Lynch Jan first. Then lynch me if I lied.

It's not usually better this way around, or every scum ever could simply take a townie with them before they are lynched.

That said, I don't think I want to lynch you today.

Oh, I had not even seen this:

Oh and faust, you do have something of a point, but voting Seprix is still insane.  Your entire argument there rests on Jan being scum anyway...

Well one of RR and Jan is scum for sure.

Scummy because it is not true. It was absolutely not obvious that one of them was scum. It could have easily been Jan with a town redirection role (again, rare, not that rare) and RR with a genuinely "guilty" result.

But as scum you'd have known that one of them is scum.

I guess we're lynching Seprix then.

nice try.

And here begins his flip:

I can manipulate myself, but it doesn't protect against factional abilities.

Alright. That seems kinda arbitrary. Oh well.

I'd vote Jan now, but let's hear from him first.

If that is not late and controlled, then what is?

I may be OMGUSing a bit, but this just reads super-fake.

Unrelated but a red flag. It probably sounded genuine, since it was genuine. scum is more likely to say that it didn't.

and this is L-1:

Thus, it is time to Vote: Jan.

I would also point out that his reaction didn't feel genuine and that I cannot begin to understand why he, as town, would choose to reveal his Future Sight ability.

So yes. You are very much a suspect. Probably the prime suspect.

[Seprix]

That's a really convincing case on Faust. I'll give him a quick read over anyways, but that's really bad for Faust if all of those are truly in context. Worse than I suspected, even. I'm going to reread SS and then some of the newer players, since I don't have much of a read on them, due to a lack of a meta to refer to.

[faust]

Stupid OMGUS argument.

Suspecting someone for voting you ≠ OMGUS.

You obviously acknowledged  that the hammer was accidental

vote: Jan
vote: faust
unvote

I don't know.

That must be the derpiest derphammer that has ever been derped.

And as such, it is inconceivable to have come from scum. Town!You would know this. Therefore, you're not town.

Ah sure. It is impossible for some reason for scum to hammer accidentally.

And "town!you would know better" is literally "oh my god you suck".

[Seprix]

Not to mention, Teamyle is town. I can confirm this later on in the day. I have a lot of things to say as well, but I have to debate whether I should be saying them now or waiting until tomorrow.

[faust]

A biased reread appeared.

Then the claim comes (not yet formulated). Whom he votes for-- no not Jan, it's RR.

Well sure. There was a contradiction in his claim. What would you have done? Oh wait, I know: Sat back and refused to take a stance:

lets have him fullclaim, and then see. Come and see.

Because obviously that's the towny thing to do 
I back off as soon as he fulclaims, because the claim was genuine. As scum, I would know that the claim will be genuine. So what exactly did scum!me gain from pushing RR?

He was the alternative to a scum wagon. Of course being on that is scummy.

This is just an example of trying to apply some "general wisdom" when it very clearly cannot be applied. Jan was going down. If I jumped the wagon at that point, you would have found me scummy too. So it's a situation where you always find me scummy, and that's a sign that your evaluation might be wrong.

Plus, being on the Seprix is only even scummy in "being an alternative to a scum wagon" if you assume that Seprix is town. Which you know how exactly?

At #637 he decides to back off:

I thought I had backed off when I unvoted. And voted for somebody else. ut apparently saying "I don't want to lynch you" is required in orded to truly back off.

Scummy because it is not true. It was absolutely not obvious that one of them was scum. It could have easily been Jan with a town redirection role (again, rare, not that rare) and RR with a genuinely "guilty" result.

There' a thing called Occam's razor. You should try it some time. Yes I am guilty of using "for sure" when I should not have.

I guess we're lynching Seprix then.

nice try.

I make joke.

And here begins his flip:

I can manipulate myself, but it doesn't protect against factional abilities.

Alright. That seems kinda arbitrary. Oh well.

I'd vote Jan now, but let's hear from him first.

If that is not late and controlled, then what is?

Yes, here begins "my flip". After RR answered a question that I asked. To which, if you assume I am scum, I would already know the answer to. And it is an answer that would in that scenario make me vote for my partner. Then why even ask? Why take this detour which I know would only end up landing me on Jan again? Going off him and then back on after this answer is a town tell and not a scum tell.

Unrelated but a red flag. It probably sounded genuine, since it was genuine. scum is more likely to say that it didn't.

And why is that? I don't believe that this is true.

This is not much of a case. Except if you call my misuse of "for sure" a case already.

[faust]

Sorry about not proofreading. If there's something left unclear, please say so.

[faust]

That's a really convincing case on Faust. I'll give him a quick read over anyways, but that's really bad for Faust if all of those are truly in context. Worse than I suspected, even. I'm going to reread SS and then some of the newer players, since I don't have much of a read on them, due to a lack of a meta to refer to.

What, exactly, is convincing to you?

[silverspawn]

Ah sure. It is impossible for some reason for scum to hammer accidentally.

Come on! I bet that is literally never happened on this forum. And how often did we have town hammering accidentally? A bunch of times since I started playing.

plus if I hammered accidentally, why would you even vote for me? Would that not make me null?

[silverspawn]

as far as I remember from the 4 times I was scum before this game, you are usually hyper aware of how much votes are on a partner if he's close to a lynch.

[silverspawn]

And "town!you would know better" is literally "oh my god you suck".

That's like the opposite of "oh my god you suck".

[silverspawn]

being on the Seprix is only even scummy in "being an alternative to a scum wagon" if you assume that Seprix is town. Which you know how exactly?

High a priori chance mixed with towny play.

There' a thing called Occam's razor. You should try it some time. Yes I am guilty of using "for sure" when I should not have.

If being scum doubles the chance of receiving a redirecting role, then Jan was still less likely scum than town, due to the a priori chance of drawing town, if the claim was true. If it triples the chance it might have been fifty/fifty. Occam's razor does not apply.

[fontisian]

Silver, are you certain faust would so adamantly oppose the Jan wagon as scum?

[faust]

Ah sure. It is impossible for some reason for scum to hammer accidentally.

Come on! I bet that is literally never happened on this forum. And how often did we have town hammering accidentally? A bunch of times since I started playing.

plus if I hammered accidentally, why would you even vote for me? Would that not make me null?

There seems to be a misunderstnading. I am not voting for you for the hammer.

There are more town than scum in any given game, so naturally town hammers accidentally more often. I remember a derphammer from scum!yuma in some game.

[faust]

There' a thing called Occam's razor. You should try it some time. Yes I am guilty of using "for sure" when I should not have.

If being scum doubles the chance of receiving a redirecting role, then Jan was still less likely scum than town, due to the a priori chance of drawing town, if the claim was true. If it triples the chance it might have been fifty/fifty. Occam's razor does not apply.

True. But I think being scum makes receiving a redirecting role at least 10 times more likely.

[silverspawn]

Silver, are you certain faust would so adamantly oppose the Jan wagon as scum?

well no, I'm not certain. But he's done similar plays before. There was a game where he declared his scum buddy an IC and everyone ate it, and then he got the MVP.

Ah sure. It is impossible for some reason for scum to hammer accidentally.

Come on! I bet that is literally never happened on this forum. And how often did we have town hammering accidentally? A bunch of times since I started playing.

plus if I hammered accidentally, why would you even vote for me? Would that not make me null?

There seems to be a misunderstnading. I am not voting for you for the hammer.

There are more town than scum in any given game, so naturally town hammers accidentally more often. I remember a derphammer from scum!yuma in some game.

on a scum? scum on town, sure.

Meh, I guess scum on scum is unlikely in the first place.

still you'd be more aware.

[faust]

It could also be fake. At the time I didn't see a reason to fake it, but if you believe it's as much of a town-tell as you apparently do, then that is a reaso for scum!you to fake it.

[iguanaiguana]

I didn't read the stuff, there was too much stuff

[fontisian]

Chairs did nothing at this point. I like his recent post though and wouldn't lynch.

This.

[chairs]

I know I'm not participating as much as any of us would like. I'll just leave it at things have been unusually busy and shitty here and I how to be more active soon.

[Cron]

Vote: Haddock

Lots of towns, you aren't one. I thought you were extremely lurky day 1. I thought your scum read on me wasn't from a town perspective like SS's was on me. It felt more trying to get a lynch started, not organic. I think you've fallen off the map. Everyone that has posted today has given me a reason not to vote them. You're a big question mark.

[Haddock]

Hey guys.

So I'm semi VLA, as Cron should know since I announced it.
But I'm following along and will try to contribute when I can. Phone posting from my hotel wifi basically.

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.  They were both on wagon, right? Yes. I'm giving them both town reads.

Much as I'd like to vote chairs for abysmal wagon position, I can't get a read off him and there must be somewhere better to go.

I still like vote: Cron I think.

I'll be as active as I can.

[Seprix]

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.

Not to be a critic, but that's generally a scumtell when people say that.

[Haddock]

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.

Not to be a critic, but that's generally a scumtell when people say that.

Is it? Huh.
I've said it as town several times and I think I said it as scum once?

[Cron]

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.

Not to be a critic, but that's generally a scumtell when people say that.

Is it? Huh.
I've said it as town several times and I think I said it as scum once?

So twice now?

[silverspawn]

why is haddock scum, exactly?

[chairs]

Because he's claiming this action is town on town

[silverspawn]

I was more asking Crom. I got that this is your reason. I don't think it's a very good reason.

[teamlyle]

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.

Not to be a critic, but that's generally a scumtell when people say that.

Is it? Huh.
I've said it as town several times and I think I said it as scum once?

So twice now?

Yeah even though this seems like such a good burn it literally has no evidence behind it.

[iguanaiguana]

town on town action lol

[iguanaiguana]

Lynching Seprix is very gratifying and I stand by my position of Vote: Seprix with a pronounced Rofl

[Seprix]

Lynching Seprix is very gratifying and I stand by my position of Vote: Seprix with a pronounced Rofl

Are you drunk, high, or both? You are not playing with the usual IguanaIguana trademarked brand of quality that I have come to expect. I demand a refund. Also, your vote didn't count.

[iguanaiguana]

uh Vote: Seprix

rofl

is still my current vote

[iguanaiguana]

and I'm none of that, I'm Pokemon Go level 17, no time to do real computer stuff.

[Cron]

Lol haddock comes on 20 minutes after I call him out. Cmon.... The dude is howling. His push on me is trash, looking for a lynch not hunting scum. Didn't do anything day 1 afterwards. His push today is pure OMGUS. "Oh I would vote chairs but I'm gonna vote Cron"

Come at me haddock. Not this weak crap. If you think I'm mafia, bury me.

[Cellovix]

Going to do a bit of re-reading to see what I can make from Jan interactions, I think.

[Cellovix]

Seprix is tentatively town.

I don't really understand some of his play, but being a counterwagon to Jan + voting for him early on and not really wavering on it looks pretty good for him.

[Cellovix]

Screw it.

Jan is scum. Jan is capable of choosing a player and redirecting all actions taken on that player to a second player also of his choosing. I've been thinking hard about this role and I can't imagine it being a town role. So here we go. If Jan lies he incriminates himself, so we'll see.
Vote: Jan YOLO

Wait a second. Sorry if I missed something but how do you know that??

I think teamlyle is pretty strongly town for his derp tell at the start of game, but this looks bad, and has me reconsidering.

[Cellovix]

I think I'll vote for Jan. He didn't even have many votes before today but when he gets a few, he makes a big stink, and I'm guessing all those swear words were to stir up emotion and say "leave me alone."

I hope I'm not too biased as I am very against swear words.

vote: Jan

I don't think this is how a newb scum busses their buddy though, based on his previous post. I'd expect it to be something like, "Well it seems RR knows his role and that is probably a scum role so I guess we have to lynch him," or something along those lines.  This is a kind of independent thought where he gauged Jans emotional reaction and thought it was forced.

On the balance I think he's solidly town.

[silverspawn]

Cello, some explanation on Haddock?

[Cellovix]

Cello, some explanation on Haddock?

Clarify?

[fontisian]

Seprix is tentatively town.

I don't really understand some of his play, but being a counterwagon to Jan + voting for him early on and not really wavering on it looks pretty good for him.

Question: If all the people voting Seprix were town, then why does him being an opposing wagon to Jan make him town?

The assumption seems to be that Seprix was town because scum were voting for him because Seprix was town. Circular logic.

[Cellovix]

Vote Count 1.6

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
fontisian(1): silverspawn
Jan(4): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(4): fontisian, Cron, faust, J Reggie

Not Voting(2): Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

I don't think I'm willing to say all the people voting Seprix are 100% town, though.

If that's the case then, yes, of course he could be scum, but Seprix did vote Jan early on.

[Cron]

Vote Count 1.6

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
fontisian(1): silverspawn
Jan(4): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(4): fontisian, Cron, faust, J Reggie

Not Voting(2): Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends July 17, 12PM forum time

I don't think I'm willing to say all the people voting Seprix are 100% town, though.

If that's the case then, yes, of course he could be scum, but Seprix did vote Jan early on.

I'm willing to bet mafia is already on jan at this point. Maybe two. Definitely 1.
Teamlyle''s pass has run out and should not be given lock clear town reads. I think jan told his partners they should probably bus, teamlyle's vote is hesitant and in a way a bus vote would be placed. Plus initial reaction is bad.

We should look heavily at teamlyle and haddock today.

[Cron]

Based on jan interaction with me about my fonti read, I highly believe fonti is town btw.

[Cron]

j reggie initial reaction calling jan and rr both town is fairly townie IMO. Why would he as mafia take such a hard stance. Jan was dying as soon as rr came out, pretty obvious. I think it would be dumb for a partner to try and convince town otherwise.

[Cellovix]

I asked earlier in the game, Cron, scum don't have daychat.

Does that change your interpretation any?  I kind of think Lyle's progression from, "How do you know that???" to "Jan's over emotional response seems forced" is pretty good, considering the context of newb scum.

[Cellovix]

Chairs, Iguana, Haddock, maybe one of Faust/Silver?  I don't think both of Faust and Silver are ever wolves here.

Vote: Haddock

[Cron]

I asked earlier in the game, Cron, scum don't have daychat.

Does that change your interpretation any?  I kind of think Lyle's progression from, "How do you know that???" to "Jan's over emotional response seems forced" is pretty good, considering the context of newb scum.

Oh yea. It changes my read on teamlyle considering he didn't jan tell him to vote for jan. Probably overthinking that. Still believe there's a mafia on jan though.

[Cellovix]

@Fontisian

Can you explain your thoughts on more players?  You've effectively just been tunneling 2 people all game with very little content regarding others, and I have no idea how to read you, based on it.

[Haddock]

Lol haddock comes on 20 minutes after I call him out. Cmon.... The dude is howling. His push on me is trash, looking for a lynch not hunting scum. Didn't do anything day 1 afterwards. His push today is pure OMGUS. "Oh I would vote chairs but I'm gonna vote Cron"

Come at me haddock. Not this weak crap. If you think I'm mafia, bury me.

What so my timing happens to sync up with yours and that makes me more likely scum? Give me a break.  Don't give me this crap about me contributing nothing yesterday either. I was vla early, sure, (vla twice now, I shouldn't have signed up for this) but I gave plenty towards the Jan lynch and was generally active in the mid to late day.

Pretty sure I remember giving reasons for voting you, too, but any case I'll collate my thoughts when I get a chance.

[silverspawn]

Haddock is the player who was super shy about bussing me in Fruit Ninja, even though I urged him to it.

Maybe in other communities, you immediately look on mafia wagons to find scum. If that is so, then mafia busses way more than they should. Here, afaik, we give town cred for being on mafia wagon, unless there are particular reasons to think otherwise.

The fact that Haddock is somehow our priority lynch right now is super suspicious.

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (2): Cron, Cellovix
silverspawn (2): faust, J Reggie
Seprix (1): iguanaiguana
faust (2): Seprix, silverspawn

Not Voting (3): teamlyle, chairs, fontisian

eh, then again, his wagon is actually smaller than I thought.

[Cron]

First off, what has haddock done that makes you think he's town?  Second, we don't know anything about seprix, you're assuming he's town and that was a counter wagon for mafia to even vote.

Am I wrong?  Wtf is going on?  Everyone just assumes because we lynched mafia that the other wagon has to have mafia?  I read fonti town, Faust town, chairs has been townie today, j reggie MAYBE if seprix is town. Iguana I'm completely null on.

[silverspawn]

he's lynched scum.

[Seprix]

We should look heavily at teamlyle and haddock today.

I can tell you for certain that Teamyle is town.

[Cron]

We should look heavily at teamlyle and haddock today.

I can tell you for certain that Teamyle is town.

Yes, we get it, you're softing.

Is this normal in these setups?  Openly softing and claiming roles? 

[silverspawn]

not particularly normal, no.

[J Reggie]

Or maybe Seprix and teamlyle are both scum.

We should also remember that there might be an SK or some kind of third party in this game.

[faust]

I shall look at silverspawn, see how scummy he actually is.

First post is in his favor, I think:

Oh my god I actually drew town this game. I'm so happy.

So at the time, he was scum in the other game. This post would give that away a bit, at least I thought it did when he posted it. So that means it's probably not a calculated post, and thus more likely to come from town.

He starts townreading Seprix pretty early, and with somewhat weak reasoning. There is some banter, and then this:

^that seems incredibly fabricated

(referring to a post by J Reggie) I still think town would be more likely to vote, and this more feels like testing the waters first. His explanation:

ah, well. it was not a conscious decision. In reality, people do this all the time, if I'm not misinformed (independent of mafia), they just are almost never aware of it. so when I looked back on the situation, I realized that it was what I did, in that moment, without thinking for more than a few seconds, I thought something like, haha, I will be the quiet mastermind who doesn't commit yet, and if I do, it will be great and stuff.

Well,

^that seems incredibly fabricated

We have some back and forth between silver and iguana, which feels like they are not scum together. Well we may have only 2 scum left, so that is not a particularly great insight.

He does not take a stance on the RR issue before he fullclaims. Afterwards, he says

Right now, lynching Jan is still the most logical option.

Which is good I think.

silver goes through some trouble trying to get exact information. Which is the kind of thing that scum likes to do to appear active and like they're trying to figure things out.

But the really weird thing is where he abandons both RR and Jan and starts voting for me 2 days before the deadline. What is the thinking here? I mean, if you're going to try starting an alternate wagon here, then I am one of the worst possible options, no? Very unlikely that I will be lynched that quickly. But I also don't get the town narrative - how can you look at the RR/Jan situation and not get a read from it. Like so much information, surely you will have some kind of read? It just seems... very odd.

I guess the following post makes a bit more sense, and puts this into perspective.

Because one is a mechanical reason and one is a content reason. If I vote for Jan than he has nothing to defend himself for, since he is either mafia or happened to be unlucky. So I'd move on with the game, and at the end of the day we can decide if whatever cases are around then are better than the Jan thing. If not, we can still lynch him.

He pushes me a bit, which I am not sure scum!silver wants to do. Then the derphammer, which is null.

Meh. This is not as good as I wanted it to be. silver actually supported the Jan lynch for most of the day, but never voted for him. That is certainly not what Jan's scumpartner wants to be doing.

Unvote. I guess I need to find a better place for my vote.

[faust]

Or maybe Seprix and teamlyle are both scum.

We should also remember that there might be an SK or some kind of third party in this game.

Man, I had a town read on you. Why would you say such a thing?

[faust]

Do we have anyone left that knows the flavor? I have a question.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.1

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (2): Cron, Cellovix
silverspawn (1): J Reggie
Seprix (1): iguanaiguana
faust (2): Seprix, silverspawn

Not Voting (4): teamlyle, chairs, fontisian, faust

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Wednesday July 27, 9PM

[J Reggie]

Or maybe Seprix and teamlyle are both scum.

We should also remember that there might be an SK or some kind of third party in this game.

Man, I had a town read on you. Why would you say such a thing?

I guess that was a scummy post. But I'm not scum. But we should be aware that there might be an SK because of flavor.

[silverspawn]

As far as I see it, asking about the SK is such a classic scum tell that scum is afraid of it and hence really a town tell.

[faust]

As far as I see it, asking about the SK is such a classic scum tell that scum is afraid of it and hence really a town tell.

I don't know; J Reggie is new. Does he know about this?

[Seprix]

As far as I see it, asking about the SK is such a classic scum tell that scum is afraid of it and hence really a town tell.

Mic Qsenoch's voice: "I dunno, that seems pretty meta to me..."

[silverspawn]

As far as I see it, asking about the SK is such a classic scum tell that scum is afraid of it and hence really a town tell.

I don't know; J Reggie is new. Does he know about this?

mh. maybe not.

but I don't even think it's a good tell in the first place. Town worries about the SK, too.

[faust]

As far as I see it, asking about the SK is such a classic scum tell that scum is afraid of it and hence really a town tell.

I don't know; J Reggie is new. Does he know about this?

mh. maybe not.

but I don't even think it's a good tell in the first place. Town worries about the SK, too.

Not if there is no indication that a SK exists in the game.

[silverspawn]

mh. J Reggie, what made you think of a SK?

[J Reggie]

mh. J Reggie, what made you think of a SK?

Faust speculating that we only have 2 scum left.

[chairs]

vote: j reggie

[iguanaiguana]

Chairs, Iguana, Haddock, maybe one of Faust/Silver?  I don't think both of Faust and Silver are ever wolves here.

Vote: Haddock

I'm a town. No one should be speculating my name in relation to scum here. I'm just not trying.

Vote: Haddock

Wagons!

[chairs]

vote: iguana

APPEAL TO "I'M TOWN".

[silverspawn]

vote: iguana is something I can get behind.

[faust]

vote: iguana is something I can get behind.

I guess he's a liability at best. Still want to look more into last Day's interactions with Jan.

[J Reggie]

Scum are going to want to keep ii around either way.  I think the ii wagon is a towny one. 

[J Reggie]

vote: j reggie

Really?  I know about the "scum wanting to SK hunt" thing.  I'd probably be less likely to say that as scum.  Me saying that should give you a town read on me. 

[J Reggie]

Man, it's too quiet for there to even be crickets here.

[Cellovix]

In-laws swung by for an unexpected visit.  Not sure how much I'll be around next 2-3 days, but they won't be staying long, thankfully. Or I'd end up being institutionalized.

[Cron]

vote: j reggie

Really?  I know about the "scum wanting to SK hunt" thing.  I'd probably be less likely to say that as scum.  Me saying that should give you a town read on me.

Saying this makes me question you. Gross.

[Haddock]

I swear to God I meant to contribute something last night. My hotel wifi died. Ffs.
Having breakfast now, will put something decent down this lunchtime I promise, will be the first properly free time I've had this week.

[Haddock]

So, stuff about Cron.
After a fairly typical opening post, his first thing is a reaction to the lyle thing. I've already said I think there was overreaction here, to the point of distraction. Crons response is particularly bizarre.  First he tries to play down the towniness of lyle's post, and then in his very next post he gives lyle a D1 pass. Sure, lyle is new, free d1 passes are fine. But it's just a super strange reason that Cron gives,  after at first trying to throw shade? Nyeh. I don't like it.

Then nothing for a while. Then this:

I like silverspawn. I understand, from his experience, why he thinks my derp clear read is bad. I can understand his logical flow on why he thinks my mafia, just wrong conclusion.

vote: Faust

I think he's posting for appearances. The whole pressure new players and going against the grain on the derp clear, feels for show and not genuine. I don't see any real game solving, just open questions and posts. I read his posts as trying to seem town and not trying to solve

It turns out that my points about Cron that I actually made  yesterday consisted of mentioning this post and saying I had a general bad vibe. Well this is still a really bad post.

The first half is classic "look how reasonable I'm being I totally see why you might think I'm scum" and the second half is tearing into faust for no good reason at all. Faust's analysis and contributions til this point had been solid stuff as usual and this whole thing rings false from Cron.

A bit of fluff then, pushing other people for content, sure no problem.  He townreads fonti, fine whatever, and then gives Jan a minor scumread which he immediately revokes when Jan responds. It's classic partner interaction:

Also jan talking about the game flavor early and bolting is how I remember him playing in WWF flavor game a while back. I'm watching you, jan. 

*Jan response*

I know nothing of Heroes except new Spock and Jess from gilmore girls are in it.  And I do remember you gave out true flavor clues as mafia. And you liking both subjects makes sense. Aight. Back to null.

And i can make weird ass plays as town.

Then he votes me for lurking. Sure. I guess that's fine. It's a weird feeling for me when im being super lurky like this. Being in another country is a decent excuse I hope.  And on D1 pushing for lurker lynches is probably fine.
He also starts pushing against the Jan lynch at the point. Just subtly and (significantly) not for content-related reasons.  Great way to look less bad later on.

His Seprix vote is absolutely awful, giving no reasons for a vote on a towny player.

For a while then he's mostly just pushing against discussion of roles. OK I give him town points for this, he does seem fairly genuinely frustrated.


He then lurks for literally the entire rest of the day while the Jan wagon goes down. I mean seriously. No posts at all for fricking ages.  Where he gets off accusing me of lurking I don't know.


Nothing much to say about D2. His first post is decent except he keeps pushing Seprix on the back of nothing.
And his push on me feels like an opportunistic attack on an absent player.  But it's bound to feel that way to me.

From his D1 play plus off-wagonness,  I like my vote where it is.

[iguanaiguana]

vote: iguana

APPEAL TO "I'M TOWN".

I'm a town.

[iguanaiguana]

vote: iguana is something I can get behind.

I guess he's a liability at best. Still want to look more into last Day's interactions with Jan.

Here's the thing. I know I can solve when I want to. So if I make it to Lylo, I may or may not do that. Until then, I want to stay alive.

I pushed Jan hard yesterday with meaningless yelling and thirsted for his hammer, and egged Roadrunner on to hammer him hard when I got impatient for it. I do not do such ridiculous blind pushing when I am scum.

[faust]

vote: iguana is something I can get behind.

I guess he's a liability at best. Still want to look more into last Day's interactions with Jan.

Here's the thing. I know I can solve when I want to. So if I make it to Lylo, I may or may not do that. Until then, I want to stay alive.

I pushed Jan hard yesterday with meaningless yelling and thirsted for his hammer, and egged Roadrunner on to hammer him hard when I got impatient for it. I do not do such ridiculous blind pushing when I am scum.

Vote: iguana until you get your priorities straight.

[iguanaiguana]

Well, when I'm dead in these games, I don't have the play them anymore. There is an appeal to that!

Vote: Iguana until he gets his priorities straight.

[fontisian]

I strongly oppose lynching iguana. He's having fun, trying to game solve and not bothering to look towny.

Vote: Faust

Ironically, it was a mixture of Seprix and faust that convinced me. I think the way faust assessed silver seemed more like scum disappointed in not finding anything scummy as opposed to town genuinely trying to figure put the game. I suspect faust took advantage of my Seprix  tunnel yesterday to push off of Jan. While I did it as part of a longterm strategy, I doubt faust was even aware if that strategy or doing anything remotely similar.

I'm also inclined to take Seprix as town today. I doubt scum would soft like that in his position. Silver's posts feel town in a way that they haven't in previous games of his. And Lyle's town pass has not and will not run out.

So, yeah, faust.

[J Reggie]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

[faust]

I strongly oppose lynching iguana. He's having fun, trying to game solve and not bothering to look towny.

It looks the other way around to me. How is iguana game solving?

Vote: Faust

Ironically, it was a mixture of Seprix and faust that convinced me. I think the way faust assessed silver seemed more like scum disappointed in not finding anything scummy as opposed to town genuinely trying to figure put the game. I suspect faust took advantage of my Seprix  tunnel yesterday to push off of Jan. While I did it as part of a longterm strategy, I doubt faust was even aware if that strategy or doing anything remotely similar.

Well, thanks for the condescension.

[faust]

You're wrong of course, which you would know if you bothered to read my posts.

[faust]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

Reasons? Do you need any reasons? Apparently not.

[J Reggie]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

Reasons? Do you need any reasons? Apparently not.

I think one of you and ss is scum, and ss seems townier than you.

[faust]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

Reasons? Do you need any reasons? Apparently not.

I think one of you and ss is scum, and ss seems townier than you.

But why do you think that?

[iguanaiguana]

I strongly oppose lynching iguana. He's having fun, trying to game solve and not bothering to look towny.

Vote: Faust

Ironically, it was a mixture of Seprix and faust that convinced me. I think the way faust assessed silver seemed more like scum disappointed in not finding anything scummy as opposed to town genuinely trying to figure put the game. I suspect faust took advantage of my Seprix  tunnel yesterday to push off of Jan. While I did it as part of a longterm strategy, I doubt faust was even aware if that strategy or doing anything remotely similar.

I'm also inclined to take Seprix as town today. I doubt scum would soft like that in his position. Silver's posts feel town in a way that they haven't in previous games of his. And Lyle's town pass has not and will not run out.

So, yeah, faust.

Vote: Faust

Wagons!

I also was thinking about which scum would be most likely to kill Roadrunner, and the answer comes up Faust to me. Faust has such a strong reputation of dieing N1 that it seems he would feel really inclined to shoot the player whose PR is known. Other players I think may have let Roadrunner lived and tried to shoot for a more valuable PR or an unknown.

I didn't explain that well. It's also not a huge thing but it was making me Faustlean before Fontisian added her bit and then that pushed me over the edge. 

[iguanaiguana]

silver is playing really solvy this game which reads town to me. In scum games, a lot of times he just doesn't try as hard.

[J Reggie]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

Reasons? Do you need any reasons? Apparently not.

I think one of you and ss is scum, and ss seems townier than you.

But why do you think that?

You are two long-time f.ds mafia players who have played so many games with each other, and the way you're interacting makes out seem like at least one of you it's scum. I like the case against you better.

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (2): Cron, Cellovix
faust (4): Seprix, fontisian, J Reggie, iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (3): chairs, silverspawn, faust

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

[silverspawn]

Not sure to what extent I'm still in love with the faust wagon.

I am tempted to go to J Reggie instead. His "faust or I must be scum" thing is just too convenient. We lynch faust-- if he flips town, he can then go after me

faust's flip on me has a bit of a WIFOM component. He knows I partially suspected him because I thought that him pushing me is weird. So it has extra motivation which is why it'd look suspicions which is why it'd look good etc.

On the other hand there are still real arguments against him.

But the wagon does not look too amazing. Seprix is fine, but font, J Reggie, and iguana are all scummy.

how about vote: J Reggie?

I seriously needed 2+ years to realize you can use shortcuts to bold stuff in this forum. All the time I have lost 

[iguanaiguana]

I'm not scummy.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.2

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (2): Cron, Cellovix
J Reggie (1): silverspawn
faust (4): Seprix, fontisian, J Reggie, iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (2): chairs, faust

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Wednesday July 27, 9PM

[silverspawn]

never make judgements about whether you are or are not towny or scummy. being towny or scummy means being regarded as likely town or likely scum, you have no input on that. if anything you can say "I shouldn't be scummy"

[faust]

I'm not scum, but I think we can do better than an ii lynch. I agree with e on vote: Faust. Keep in mind if Faust flips scum, it certainly doesn't clear ss. He could be bussing or an SK.

Reasons? Do you need any reasons? Apparently not.

I think one of you and ss is scum, and ss seems townier than you.

But why do you think that?

You are two long-time f.ds mafia players who have played so many games with each other, and the way you're interacting makes out seem like at least one of you it's scum. I like the case against you better.

I looked hard trying to find an argument in this post, but I was not succesful. What is "the case against me", and what about it do you like?

[faust]

I'm not scummy.

Neither am I, and yet you're voting for me.

[J Reggie]

[Case against Faust]

Ss laid it out cleanly here. Faust's D1 is pretty scummy, with his position on Jan's wagon being bad.

[faust]

[Case against Faust]

Ss laid it out cleanly here. Faust's D1 is pretty scummy, with his position on Jan's wagon being bad.

I refuted all that already. Which part of my refute was not convincing to you?

[faust]

I also was thinking about which scum would be most likely to kill Roadrunner, and the answer comes up Faust to me. Faust has such a strong reputation of dieing N1 that it seems he would feel really inclined to shoot the player whose PR is known. Other players I think may have let Roadrunner lived and tried to shoot for a more valuable PR or an unknown.

I just saw this. I will only say that trying to figure out why scum killed a certain person is like reading tea leaves most of the time. Well, this time RR had a strong claimed PR that had already outed one scum (so he was pretty darn towny), so you don't have to go through such lengthy tinfoil theories to explain why they killed him.

[J Reggie]

[Case against Faust]

Ss laid it out cleanly here. Faust's D1 is pretty scummy, with his position on Jan's wagon being bad.

I refuted all that already. Which part of my refute was not convincing to you?

Your rebuttal seemed forced and weak to me. The way you tried to prove ss wrong by saying you would have switched to Jan as town or scum. The way you tried to say it was obvious that one of RR and Jan was scum even though it wasn't.

I didn't really have that strong a scum read on you, but the way you're defending yourself here is making things worse.

[faust]

[Case against Faust]

Ss laid it out cleanly here. Faust's D1 is pretty scummy, with his position on Jan's wagon being bad.

I refuted all that already. Which part of my refute was not convincing to you?

Your rebuttal seemed forced and weak to me. The way you tried to prove ss wrong by saying you would have switched to Jan as town or scum. The way you tried to say it was obvious that one of RR and Jan was scum even though it wasn't.

I didn't really have that strong a scum read on you, but the way you're defending yourself here is making things worse.

It's called confirmation bias.

I never said that bit about switching to Jan; where do you get that from? The other thing, fair enough, it wasn't well said. What about my way of defending myself do you find scummy? For some reason, once people start suspecting me, I never seem to get out of it again. I guess defending isn't my strong suit and I should care more about not being suspected in the first place. Oh well.

[faust]

There is some information that might be good to share for me, but... well, I would really prefer to talk to someone with flavor knowledge first.

[J Reggie]

There is some information that might be good to share for me, but... well, I would really prefer to talk to someone with flavor knowledge first.

http://heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki

Ask away.

[faust]

There is some information that might be good to share for me, but... well, I would really prefer to talk to someone with flavor knowledge first.

http://heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki

Ask away.

I know there's a wiki, and I read it, but I didn't get anything conclusive from it unfortunately. Do you know more or are you just snarky?

[J Reggie]

There is some information that might be good to share for me, but... well, I would really prefer to talk to someone with flavor knowledge first.

http://heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki

Ask away.

I know there's a wiki, and I read it, but I didn't get anything conclusive from it unfortunately. Do you know more or are you just snarky?

I'm just snarky. Sorry, I didn't know if it would have occurred to you to check the wiki.

[Haddock]

Welp.

I don't think I like the faust wagon.  If it came down to it, I'd say he's scummier than silver, but that doesn't exactly make him scummy.  I've been getting a few bad vibes, but there's nothing there that could legit be called a case.  He's still in the top half of towniness.

On that wagon, towny people are Seprix and Reggie.  fonti is totally null to me, and who the hell knows about ii.  I  guesss I need to reread both of those, but I'm not likely to get a chance until I'm back in my home country.  There's plenty of time I guess. 

Can I suggest that faust just asks his flavour question?  Asking whether there are people around who know flavour is useless, since the people who kinda-know the flavour won't know whether or not they know the answer to your question.   Just ask the damn thing.

[faust]

Can I suggest that faust just asks his flavour question?  Asking whether there are people around who know flavour is useless, since the people who kinda-know the flavour won't know whether or not they know the answer to your question.   Just ask the damn thing.

Alright. I thought that noone knows the flavor, I would just spill more information than needed to scum. But I guess it shouldn't be too bad.

If there is a player with the flavor name "The Haitian" in this setup, are they more likely scum or town?

[chairs]

Scum. I don't know much about the flavor but I'm 80% sure that's scum.

[faust]

Scum. I don't know much about the flavor but I'm 80% sure that's scum.

In that case, it is likely that I have been targeted by scum tonight.

Full disclosure: The action was a vanillaising one. I looked up Heroes powers and the Haitian was what seemed to match. For that reason, I tentatively townread the player who went after me early, since scum generally doesn't want to lynch the guy they just vanillaised.

I have reason to believe that the vanillaising is temporary, but I don't know anything concrete.

[Haddock]

Yeah I'd lean scum on that.  He's a character who works for the sinister anti-hero organisation. He's not evil in the same way that Sylar is, but definitely not a good guy.

PPE.

[Cellovix]

Sneaking in a post to say I'll be back playing tomorrow evening, probably.  Just need to go plaster a fake smile on my face and cook breakfast for the hellspawns.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.3

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (2): Cron, Cellovix
J Reggie (1): silverspawn
faust (4): Seprix, fontisian, J Reggie, iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (2): chairs, faust

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Wednesday July 27, 9PM

[iguanaiguana]

Let's

Vote: Cron

[fontisian]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

[J Reggie]

Lots of cool PR stuff. Have we learned anything from it? My thought is no.

[J Reggie]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

Are you soft-claiming Haitian?

[Cron]

vote: j reggie

Was thinking about it more. I think a mafia team that doesn't have a day chat might actually have defended jan there in a way similar to j reggie's initial reaction. Without knowing what jan would say or claim, it's likely a mafia would be pushing or at least planting a seed that jan could be town similar to what j Reggie did.

Also I hate his latest posts.

Faust is in my towns, don't wanna lynch him

I'm getting paranoid of fonti not giving a read on me, which she rarely doesn't do when she's town. Cmon fonti.

[fontisian]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

Are you soft-claiming Haitian?

No.

[Seprix]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

Hmmm

unvote for now. I don't know what this means, but I want to learn more.

[faust]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

And I thought my analysis was decent

This is weird... if fonti is somehow responsible, would't she have known that stuff already? If so, then why is it justification for an unvote? I suppose we'll never know, because there wont be further clarifications. At least it seems unlikely that fontisian would do thi if she was in fact scum with that role.

[silverspawn]

this is weird, but since it's about claim, I guess we're not supposed to get it.

Right now I'd like to lynch J Reggie... or if not faust or maybe iguana.

[J Reggie]

this is weird, but since it's about claim, I guess we're not supposed to get it.

Right now I'd like to lynch J Reggie... or if not faust or maybe iguana.

I'm really that scummy?

[silverspawn]

well. yes.

[fontisian]

This is clearly hopping.

[J Reggie]

We have plurality lynch still, but let's try to get a real lynch through. I still think Faust is scum, but I could vote: cron and see where that goes.

[Cellovix]

The hellspawn are gone, I am back to being a player that exists.

[Cellovix]

Unvote: Faust

You were not targeted by the Haitian. I will not clarify more than that.

This is clearly hopping.

Could you talk about Haddock, JReggie, Chairs, and Cron?

[Cellovix]

@Haddock

Unless I've missed it, you functionally completely ignored my vote on you.  Why?  What is your read on me, and if you aren't sure, and I voted you, why did you not try to figure that out?

[Cellovix]

I'd like Iguana and JReggie to explain their Cron votes, because that wagon feels questionable to me.

[Cellovix]

Can people with previous experience with Chairs talk to me about him?  How do you read him? Is this level of inactivity normal?  Take a minute to read all of his posts back through, and look at what he's done this game, if you could.

I don't really think he's pushing an agenda of any kind with his infrequent pop ins, and that makes me lean town on him because he's just kind of interjecting thoughts.  But I can't have any kind of strength on that read when he's made about five posts with any game related content.

[Cellovix]

I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs and hoping someone swings by to post and chat.  I like interacting with people in mafia and there's been very little of that for me this game, between my own V/LA issues, and just never being around when others are.

[iguanaiguana]

what up

[iguanaiguana]

I'd like Iguana and JReggie to explain their Cron votes, because that wagon feels questionable to me.

I have no clue why. Like, literally, I have no reason at all in my mind for why I am voting him.

Vote: J Reggie

[iguanaiguana]

Can people with previous experience with Chairs talk to me about him?  How do you read him? Is this level of inactivity normal?  Take a minute to read all of his posts back through, and look at what he's done this game, if you could.

I don't really think he's pushing an agenda of any kind with his infrequent pop ins, and that makes me lean town on him because he's just kind of interjecting thoughts.  But I can't have any kind of strength on that read when he's made about five posts with any game related content.

Yes, normal. He's only been scum like twice in 25+ games or something ridiculous, so he's often a townread just because, well, he's never scum.

[Cellovix]

Can people with previous experience with Chairs talk to me about him?  How do you read him? Is this level of inactivity normal?  Take a minute to read all of his posts back through, and look at what he's done this game, if you could.

I don't really think he's pushing an agenda of any kind with his infrequent pop ins, and that makes me lean town on him because he's just kind of interjecting thoughts.  But I can't have any kind of strength on that read when he's made about five posts with any game related content.

Yes, normal. He's only been scum like twice in 25+ games or something ridiculous, so he's often a townread just because, well, he's never scum.

That's. Not. 

Brainexplosion.jpg

[Cellovix]

I'm pretty sure Iguana is town.  I don't especially understand him, but I have trouble seeing scum ever pulling this shtick and sticking with it after a partner dies day one.

[Cellovix]

Town
------
Cellovix
RR
Teamlyle
Seprix
Iguanaiguana
Chairs
Silverspawn
Cron
Fontisian
Faust
JReggie
Haddock
Jan
-------
Scum

Just jotting my thoughts down to try and give me some structure.  I think this is roughly where I'm at.  Chairs can slot in anywhere from where I have him to in between Fontisian and Faust, as I'm not really sure at all on that middle grouping.

[Haddock]

@Haddock

Unless I've missed it, you functionally completely ignored my vote on you.  Why?  What is your read on me, and if you aren't sure, and I voted you, why did you not try to figure that out?

I did ignore it. I have a scumread on you. But it's really hard for me to tell how much of it is omgus - truth is probably i didn't have much of a scumread on you until you voted me.  So yeah that's the very definition of omgus I guess.

I havent been able to properly read anyone, and rereading you is going to be harder because I know it will  either tainted by omgus.  I'll get to it.

Really though, it's simpler than all of that.  You and Cron were voting me, and I already had a scumread on Cron so he was the priority.

[Haddock]

*will be tainted.

[Haddock]

long forum downtime.  If we need it, can we have an extension?

[silverspawn]

Yeah, it was a full day almost, so we should have one day more.

[iguanaiguana]

If I get a chance on Tuesday, I might spend some time doing my careful Iguana thing where I actually read the thread and try to distinguish scum vs. town. Because right now, I just see people arguing and can't really tell who is lying and who is telling the truth.

I'll do my best. Sorry I've been lame lately guys.

[iguanaiguana]

For old times sake though,

I'm a town rofl

[gkrieg13]

long forum downtime.  If we need it, can we have an extension?

Extension granted

[Seprix]

Holy cow, I feel much better. The forums were down, and I was just shaking... I was suffering withdrawal!

[faust]

If I get a chance on Tuesday, I might spend some time doing my careful Iguana thing where I actually read the thread and try to distinguish scum vs. town. Because right now, I just see people arguing and can't really tell who is lying and who is telling the truth.

I'll do my best. Sorry I've been lame lately guys.

Why the sudden change of heart?

[Seprix]

If I get a chance on Tuesday, I might spend some time doing my careful Iguana thing where I actually read the thread and try to distinguish scum vs. town. Because right now, I just see people arguing and can't really tell who is lying and who is telling the truth.

I'll do my best. Sorry I've been lame lately guys.

Why the sudden change of heart?

When II gets solvy, he transforms into scum.

[fontisian]

Vote: JReggie

Shrug.

[Haddock]

I think that's L-2.  The Reggie votes are terrible and people should feel bad.  Seriously where's the case?

[iguanaiguana]

If I get a chance on Tuesday, I might spend some time doing my careful Iguana thing where I actually read the thread and try to distinguish scum vs. town. Because right now, I just see people arguing and can't really tell who is lying and who is telling the truth.

I'll do my best. Sorry I've been lame lately guys.

Why the sudden change of heart?

It's not really a change of heart. It's a maybe I'll do this, if I have time, later.

[silverspawn]

I think that's L-2.  The Reggie votes are terrible and people should feel bad.  Seriously where's the case?

exceedingly excellent question. Let me see.

jumpy, unconcerned, utterly devoid of commitment. There's this stuff

Oh my god I actually drew town this game. I'm so hapapy.

So did I. But being scum is funner than being town.

Haha, look at this:

Good morning everyone! vote: Seprix because it's fun.

He has fun! According to his own logic, that makes him scum, and I just made a rhyme.

He also goes out of his way to claim town twice. First in reaction to me doing it, and then with the joke thing.

Then there's this claim thingy:

Also, ugh. No flavor claims.

I'm not going to claim in the thread, but if he knows my flavor role he can tell people.

I don't get it.... how would he know your flavor role?

It's doubtful but it would be a happy coincidence and might clear both of us.

Softclaiming then. I am doubtful that that's much better than flavor claiming, but you need to figure out how to play your role yourself of course.

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

So without looking this up, I'm going to analyze it. It's a soft flavor claim. That means the flavor is probably more likely to be town than scum. So the obvious thing to think is that ii is town. But keep in mind scum are often given fake flavor claims, and might want to use them in this way to make people think they're town. So I feel like this post points to ii being scum. vote: ii

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

Eh, I've only handed out information that I don't think is useful to scum. Or have I?

^that seems incredibly fabricated

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Of course it's a little fabricated; it's a wild shot in the dark. It might not be true, but it's a possibility that crossed my mind. These are the kinds of things you need to do as town.

Ugh. Yeah, no. This lynch is excellent.

^that seems incredibly fabricated

Vote:silverspawn

It took far too long.

What do you mean by that? I'm saying because I might agree with you if you're saying what I think you are.

I'm interested in what you think I was saying. For me, I mostly found it strange that silver would call something "incredibly fabricated" and then not vote for that person.

Mostly that it was too in-depth of an analysis of such a little thing for scum!me to have bothered with it. Anyway, vote: Silverspawn is warranted.

I feel like this thing between ss and ii isn't between two town. At least one of them is scum. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but let's keep an eye on those two.

I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to the kind of "if this person is town then this person is scum" thing that I dislike, but what I'm trying to say is there's just likely scum among those two players.

Why?

At this point it's more of a gut feeling than anything, but my early gut reads in Sherlock were right (that the was scum between you and ADK, and that Teproc was scum). So I'm not setting anything in stone but I'm on the lookout.

I also don't like how so many of his posts are seemingly helpful stuff about other things.

I'm calling the scum team of Jan & J Reggie & faust and maybe someone else.

[Haddock]

I'm still pretty sure reggie is town.

[silverspawn]

I'm still pretty sure reggie is town.

why?

[Haddock]

Ugh. I have reasons.  I don't think I should say more than that.

[silverspawn]

oh. unvote vote: faust then.

[silverspawn]

he was *** scummy though.

[faust]

oh. unvote vote: faust then.

Still? What do you make of my claim, and fontisian's reaction to it, then?

[iguanaiguana]

Feels like scum has to be softing some fake stuff considering how many people have dispelled a wagon by softing something at this point.

[iguanaiguana]

but yeah Unvote

[silverspawn]

oh. uhm. I think your logic is sound (about scum not pushing you) if you're town. But I didn't see a reason why it makes you town. Vanilla-iz-ing-thing powers aren't disproportionally scum powers I don't think. You could be scum having been vanillaizized

[silverspawn]

but yeah Unvote

it's one thing if someone softclaims stuff. but softclaiming about someone else sort of ties you together. THat's craziness after one scum got lynched already.

[faust]

oh. uhm. I think your logic is sound (about scum not pushing you) if you're town. But I didn't see a reason why it makes you town. Vanilla-iz-ing-thing powers aren't disproportionally scum powers I don't think. You could be scum having been vanillaizized

True, but in that case I would be the worst scum to lynch. Also, well I didn't think that there was a Heroes character that fit with a Vanillaising power. I don't quite know what to make of fonti's remark then, but that is also something to consider for sure.

[silverspawn]

Who do you want to lynch now?

[J Reggie]

It's ok now, I'm here.

So there's a big wagon on me.  I don't really have a good defense, as I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.  But my vote on Faust was real, even though people didn't seem to like it.  I still think he's probably our best bet.  But I'm also scared of Cron and Cellovix because they're new and good.  Cron I think is the scummier of the two and a wagon on him could do us some good.  I don't want to lynch Haddock now.  I think he's town because of the way he defended me and other reasons. 

[faust]

It's ok now, I'm here.

So there's a big wagon on me.  I don't really have a good defense, as I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.  But my vote on Faust was real, even though people didn't seem to like it.  I still think he's probably our best bet.  But I'm also scared of Cron and Cellovix because they're new and good.  Cron I think is the scummier of the two and a wagon on him could do us some good.  I don't want to lynch Haddock now.  I think he's town because of the way he defended me and other reasons.

Now, I want to lynch J Reggie.

Vote: J Reggie

[faust]

Well there is Haddock's thing. But really this is just amazingly scummy.

[J Reggie]

It's ok now, I'm here.

So there's a big wagon on me.  I don't really have a good defense, as I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.  But my vote on Faust was real, even though people didn't seem to like it.  I still think he's probably our best bet.  But I'm also scared of Cron and Cellovix because they're new and good.  Cron I think is the scummier of the two and a wagon on him could do us some good.  I don't want to lynch Haddock now.  I think he's town because of the way he defended me and other reasons.

Now, I want to lynch J Reggie.

Vote: J Reggie

Why?  I don't want to get NK'd and not be able to use my power.  I know that's kind of a bad reason, but that's why.  I can try and play townier from now on, since me saying this is basically negating my chances to not get NK'd.

[faust]

Why?  I don't want to get NK'd and not be able to use my power.  I know that's kind of a bad reason, but that's why.  I can try and play townier from now on, since me saying this is basically negating my chances to not get NK'd.

Not getting lynched is way way way waaaaay more important than not getting nightkilled, and this is a super convenient way to dismiss all reads on you.

Walk me through each scummy post you made, and what your thinking was while posting, please.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.4


Cron (2): Haddock, J Reggie
Haddock (1): Cellovix
J Reggie (3): Cron, fontisian, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
iguanaiguana (1): chairs

Not Voting (3): teamlyle, Seprix, iguanaiguana

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM

[Cellovix]

I don't really know what to make of my strongest scum read protecting my second strongest scum read.  If they're both off the table, I don't have anyone I really want to lynch.  Maybe Faust or Fontisian, but they aren't actually scum reads, just not as strongly town as some others.

I think my inclination is to distrust it, because it's too similar to the Seprix/Teamlyle thing where Seprix softed that Lyle is town.  I could see it being a desperation play where Haddock/JReggie are scum, and they feel the need to swing for the fences, maybe.

If Haddock is town, JReggie is probably always town here unless Haddock is misinterpreting his information, which seems unlikely.

If Haddock is scum, JReggie is almost certainly scum, because it'd mean Haddock was trying to save one of his easiest mislynches.

The scenarios where they are opposite alignments seem pretty unlikely at first glance, regardless of which direction it is in.  Can someone logic check me there?

[Cellovix]

It's ok now, I'm here.

So there's a big wagon on me.  I don't really have a good defense, as I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.  But my vote on Faust was real, even though people didn't seem to like it.  I still think he's probably our best bet.  But I'm also scared of Cron and Cellovix because they're new and good.  Cron I think is the scummier of the two and a wagon on him could do us some good.  I don't want to lynch Haddock now.  I think he's town because of the way he defended me and other reasons. 

The last bit here feels really tacked on. If those "other reasons" are in the thread/behavioral, can you cite them?

[Cellovix]

Vote Count 2.4

Cron (1): Haddock
Haddock (1): Cellovix
Cron (1): J Reggie
J Reggie (3): Cron, fontisian, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
iguanaiguana (1): chairs

Not Voting (3): teamlyle, Seprix, iguanaiguana

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM

You have two separate Cron wagons.  Not sure if you missed an unvote, or if that should be a two person wagon).

[Cron]

Lol haddock. Either you're mafia or your logic makes zero sense

You say you hate the Faust wagon earlier today. The people on that wagon are j reggie (you're protecting him), seprix (your town read), fonti (a null read to you), and iguana.  So what specifically makes the Faust wagon scummy at the time? 

[Seprix]

vote: J Reggie

[teamlyle]

It's ok now, I'm here.

So there's a big wagon on me.  I don't really have a good defense, as I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.  But my vote on Faust was real, even though people didn't seem to like it.  I still think he's probably our best bet.  But I'm also scared of Cron and Cellovix because they're new and good.  Cron I think is the scummier of the two and a wagon on him could do us some good.  I don't want to lynch Haddock now.  I think he's town because of the way he defended me and other reasons. 

The last bit here feels really tacked on. If those "other reasons" are in the thread/behavioral, can you cite them?

Not sure if this is relevant but I'm gonna back up J Reggie here. I know about the "other reasons" and they're pretty good reasons, but since they're not saying them, I guess they know something I don't, so I won't say it either.

[Cron]

unvote and Vote: Haddock

Your accusation on Faust's wagon being scummy makes zero sense. Neither of your top scums were on it AND you believe j reggie and seprix are town AND admitted that you're null on Fonti. That's 3/4 on the wagon.

And I don't believe your soft on j reggie. If you're both town, why aren't mafia pushing me? 

[fontisian]

Vote: Haddock

Double shrug.

[Cellovix]

Are my posts invisible or something?  Should I get an avatar that stands out more?

[Cellovix]

Fontisian, I've tried to engage you multiple times this game and you haven't responded. Is this intentional, or are you just not reading the game super closely?

[Haddock]

unvote and Vote: Haddock

Your accusation on Faust's wagon being scummy makes zero sense. Neither of your top scums were on it AND you believe j reggie and seprix are town AND admitted that you're null on Fonti. That's 3/4 on the wagon.

And I don't believe your soft on j reggie. If you're both town, why aren't mafia pushing me?

I never said Faust's wagon was scummy. I said I didn't like it. As in I don't agree with it. I think faust is town. Read again if you like. It's pretty clear that I'm not saying it's a scummy wagon. Seriously your read on me is feeling so forced right now.

As for the last part, pay attention. You've now got me and lyle and reggie all agreeing on my soft. What, we're all scum? Check yourself. And I don't understand your final sentence.

[Haddock]

I think my inclination is to distrust it, because it's too similar to the Seprix/Teamlyle thing where Seprix softed that Lyle is town.  I could see it being a desperation play where Haddock/JReggie are scum, and they feel the need to swing for the fences, maybe.

Jeez. With lyle backing us too? Take the hint.

Fonti needs to start explaining her votes. We don't need an Awaclus right now.

[faust]

This is all very interesting, but I won't move my vote until J Reggie has answered my question to my satisfaction.

Also I find it hard to trust anything teamlyle says.

[Cron]

I think my inclination is to distrust it, because it's too similar to the Seprix/Teamlyle thing where Seprix softed that Lyle is town.  I could see it being a desperation play where Haddock/JReggie are scum, and they feel the need to swing for the fences, maybe.

Jeez. With lyle backing us too? Take the hint.

Fonti needs to start explaining her votes. We don't need an Awaclus right now.

"Guys look Lyle is on our side, he agrees with us. We must be town, right?"

Yea okay.

Dude, you were throwing shade on people voting on Faust. Let's not kid ourselves here. My last sentence is saying if your claim is true and you and j Reggie are town, you're saying zero mafia are pushing on me when Im a fairly easy lynch candidate.

[Cron]

I personally think you were setting yourself up for the "I told you Faust was town we need to lynch the people who voted"

[teamlyle]

Welp.

I don't think I like the faust wagon.  If it came down to it, I'd say he's scummier than silver, but that doesn't exactly make him scummy.  I've been getting a few bad vibes, but there's nothing there that could legit be called a case.  He's still in the top half of towniness.

There's no mention here about the people voting for faust being scummy. Just because a wagon is bad doesn't mean it's scummy, I don't think this qualifies as "throwing shade."

For now, Vote: Cron

[Cron]

His top towns are voting for Faust, none of his scums, but doesn't like the Faust wagon. Yea that's town thinking.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.5


Cron (3): Haddock, J Reggie, teamlyle
Haddock (3): Cellovix, Cron, fontisian
J Reggie (2): faust, Seprix
faust (1): silverspawn
iguanaiguana (1): chairs

Not Voting (1): iguanaiguana

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM

[iguanaiguana]

vote: haddock wagons

[fontisian]

I think my inclination is to distrust it, because it's too similar to the Seprix/Teamlyle thing where Seprix softed that Lyle is town.  I could see it being a desperation play where Haddock/JReggie are scum, and they feel the need to swing for the fences, maybe.

Jeez. With lyle backing us too? Take the hint.

Fonti needs to start explaining her votes. We don't need an Awaclus right now.

Have you considered answering Cron's case on you?

Cellovix: Maybe. Any other questions?

[Cron]

I'll give you the point you didn't directly say scummy. However, if you're town, it makes zero sense why you wouldn't like it if you factor in your reads, your scums not voting, Faust off wagon. You don't even call Faust all that townie, murky town read to cover yourself.

F-2 btw.

[Haddock]

I think my inclination is to distrust it, because it's too similar to the Seprix/Teamlyle thing where Seprix softed that Lyle is town.  I could see it being a desperation play where Haddock/JReggie are scum, and they feel the need to swing for the fences, maybe.

Jeez. With lyle backing us too? Take the hint.

Fonti needs to start explaining her votes. We don't need an Awaclus right now.

Have you considered answering Cron's case on you?

He hasn't made one. He doesn't believe my reggie related soft.  Well I've answered that, though tbh I think it would be best if reggie went ahead and claimed here to clear things up.

As for his stuff about faust, it's completely invented.  I didn't like the faust wagon because I think faust is towny.  I've made that plenty clear in several places.  It really is that simple and Cron is making this out of nothing.

Meanwhile Cron hasnt responded to my case on him at all, so how's about you ask him why that is?

My last sentence is saying if your claim is true and you and j Reggie are town, you're saying zero mafia are pushing on me when Im a fairly easy lynch candidate.

How do you get that you're a fairly easy lynch candidate? Roughly two people have ever given you any scrutiny at all.

[Haddock]

vote: haddock wagons

What happened to "I'm going to start being analytical?".

Seriously guys. I JUST get back from Germany and start contributing and I'm at L-2 already?
If anyone wants to actually present a case I'd love to hear it. At least Cron is giving reasons, even if they're bad ones.

[Cron]

Your townread on Faust was nothing. It wasn't even a townread. It was "oh he's town, I dunno, he's less scummy than SS". No logical reasoning why you townread Faust. You didn't even factor in your soft claim voting on him, your townread voting him, your mafia reads not voting. ill reread your accusation but I remember thinking it was bland.

If people want me to claim, I will.  And then we can lynch haddock

[Cron]

Lol you don't even believe I'm mafia. You just think I'm bad and wrong.

[Cron]

Regardless of your alignment, you don't believe I'm mafia with the way you phrased your last post about me. I however see a very real world where you can. I could be wrong bt it's what I believe.

[Haddock]

Lol you don't even believe I'm mafia. You just think I'm bad and wrong.

You're just talking shit now. I think you're bad and wrong and Mafia.  I made a case, remember. WHICH YOU NEVER RESPONDED TO.
"The way I phrased my last post"? My arse.

Your townread on Faust was nothing. It wasn't even a townread. It was "oh he's town, I dunno, he's less scummy than SS". No logical reasoning why you townread Faust.

I have been clearly townreading faust for all of this game. I gave him a town read for being his analytical self at the beginning.  Then this:

My biggest thought is that this silver/faust thing feels like a townclash to me.  They were both on wagon, right? Yes. I'm giving them both town reads.

It's not possible you forgot about this since such a fuss was made about it.  Then I said that faust was scummier than ss but THAT I STILL PUT HIM IN MY TOP HALF OF TOWNREADS.

Seriously if you're going to decide to have a scumread on me at least read me first.  This is pathetic.

[Cron]

AGAIN, ALL MY TOP TOWN ARE VOTING ON FAUST, NONE OF MY SCUMS, FAUST IS TOWN?!  No second thought because of this?  If you're town, this is horrible logic. You didn't even question those facts in defending Faust.

Get mad about it. Cal me pathetic or whatever. The fact is, if you're town, your analysis was poor and not 100% thought through. HENCE WHY I THINK YOURE MAFIA.

If you can clear yourself and j Reggie, do it!!!!  I'll clear myself

[Seprix]

AGAIN, ALL MY TOP TOWN ARE VOTING ON FAUST, NONE OF MY SCUMS, FAUST IS TOWN?!  No second thought because of this?  If you're town, this is horrible logic. You didn't even question those facts in defending Faust.

Get mad about it. Cal me pathetic or whatever. The fact is, if you're town, your analysis was poor and not 100% thought through. HENCE WHY I THINK YOURE MAFIA.

If you can clear yourself and j Reggie, do it!!!!  I'll clear myself

Can you prove that Faust is town?

[faust]

AGAIN, ALL MY TOP TOWN ARE VOTING ON FAUST, NONE OF MY SCUMS, FAUST IS TOWN?!  No second thought because of this?  If you're town, this is horrible logic. You didn't even question those facts in defending Faust.

Get mad about it. Cal me pathetic or whatever. The fact is, if you're town, your analysis was poor and not 100% thought through. HENCE WHY I THINK YOURE MAFIA.

If you can clear yourself and j Reggie, do it!!!!  I'll clear myself

Can you prove that Faust is town?

What sort of question is that?

Still waiting for J Reggie to make his response. Don't think I'll forget, man.

[Cron]

AGAIN, ALL MY TOP TOWN ARE VOTING ON FAUST, NONE OF MY SCUMS, FAUST IS TOWN?!  No second thought because of this?  If you're town, this is horrible logic. You didn't even question those facts in defending Faust.

Get mad about it. Cal me pathetic or whatever. The fact is, if you're town, your analysis was poor and not 100% thought through. HENCE WHY I THINK YOURE MAFIA.

If you can clear yourself and j Reggie, do it!!!!  I'll clear myself

Can you prove that Faust is town?

No.

[silverspawn]

@Cron I don't think you understand correctly.

Haddock never said faust was town because his town reads were voting for him.  He just said that he was town and his town reads were voting for him. There is no contradiction.

[Haddock]

AGAIN, ALL MY TOP TOWN ARE VOTING ON FAUST, NONE OF MY SCUMS, FAUST IS TOWN?!  No second thought because of this?  If you're town, this is horrible logic. You didn't even question those facts in defending Faust.

WHAT? I am relying on my reads. Thats what you do in this game. Finding someone scummy because your townreads are is the very definition of sheeping. Your logic is faulty, not mine.

I can essentially clear reggie but only by outing his PR. I'm not doing that without his consent.

[Cron]

I dunno how many times I have to explain it. If people think I'm wrong, I'm wrong then. Great. I really don't care. This is how it's played here, so I'll deal with it and take the heat. I'll claim if you want. I just really don't give a shit anymore.

[Haddock]

vote: Cron vote: Cron vote: Cron

[Cron]

Alright I had to walk away and calm down a bit.

I'm going to unvote just for that vote Cron outburst from haddock because it's one of the most asshole and troll things I've ever seen when someone's clearly annoyed and I'll be super disgusted that a mafia would do that on purpose to try to get a mislynch. Maybe I'm wrong and he's a huge asshole.  If you did, wow. Although thinking about it, he seems pretty passionate about his read on me, even if it is wrong.

So i can claim if people really want me to. I'll wait for f-2 if people think I'm actually mafia. If I get one more vote I'll claim.

If haddock's claim is true, I would almost prefer j Reggie give him the go ahead because it will lock multiple people into some claims and softs. I will claim as well if need be.

[Cron]

I just hope there's not a secondary objective of mafia to find a specific person because these mass claims might bite us. But I don't see a way out now.  It's probably two town tunneling on each other.

[faust]

Do all of you have to act so scummy? It's irritating. And I don't want to change my vote before J Reggie show up again.

[Haddock]

Alright I had to walk away and calm down a bit.

I'm going to unvote just for that vote Cron outburst from haddock because it's one of the most asshole and troll things I've ever seen when someone's clearly annoyed and I'll be super disgusted that a mafia would do that on purpose to try to get a mislynch. Maybe I'm wrong and he's a huge asshole.  If you did, wow. Although thinking about it, he seems pretty passionate about his read on me, even if it is wrong.

So i can claim if people really want me to. I'll wait for f-2 if people think I'm actually mafia. If I get one more vote I'll claim.

If haddock's claim is true, I would almost prefer j Reggie give him the go ahead because it will lock multiple people into some claims and softs. I will claim as well if need be.

I appreciate the unvote.

I don't think I've ever been called an asshole before.  Even in the hypothetical.  I dont usually fall out with people here.
 
Which suggests I've done something pretty extreme to piss you off.  And I guess it can only be my votey post.  I apologise for it.  It certainly wasn't intended as trolly. I was just venting.  Your giving up post did not feel like you were genuinely pissed off or angry, it just felt scummy, my votes were just to make the point that I thought your post was scummy.  I guess I could have made that point in a better way.  I apologise, I really do.

Yeah reggie needs to turn up.  Is he owed a prod?

[Seprix]

Alright I had to walk away and calm down a bit.

I'm going to unvote just for that vote Cron outburst from haddock because it's one of the most asshole and troll things I've ever seen when someone's clearly annoyed and I'll be super disgusted that a mafia would do that on purpose to try to get a mislynch.

This makes me want to vote for you. Sorry, this really feels like some attempt at an appeal to emotion.

[iguanaiguana]

WHAT'S WITH THE CAPS LOCK?

VOTE: CRON

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.6


Cron (4): Haddock, J Reggie, teamlyle, iguanaiguana
Haddock (2): Cellovix, fontisian
J Reggie (2): faust, Seprix
faust (1): silverspawn
iguanaiguana (1): chairs

Not Voting (1): Cron

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM

[Cron]

Sure I'll claim

I'm Matt Parkman. I have a mind read ability I can use every night (I couldn't n0). I can see who the target targets.

I softed I was going to watch jan day 1 but since he died I wanted to check someone off wagon and not in my towns. Checked chairs. He targeted no one.  I softed this earlier today that he's done nothing.

I'm fairly confident chairs is town since he targeted no one. I don't see a mafia not having an ability or making a kill. I'm assuming if he made the kill I'd be able to see it.

All I got for you guys. Believe me or lynch me.

[Cellovix]

Can you state the exact wording of the tracking mechanic? Is it literally "See who the target targets?"

[Cron]

I cant quote it directly, can I?  Isn't that mod kill offense?

Basically i can inspect a person each night and see who that person targets. I do not know what that person did to their target, I just see who they targeted.

[Cron]

Chairs targeted no one last night. That's a fact.

[gkrieg13]

Can you state the exact wording of the tracking mechanic? Is it literally "See who the target targets?"

No Quoting of Mod-supplied materials

[Cellovix]

Hm.  I was asking because of the stuff with RR where there where he could see non-factional abilities, implying factional abilities exist.

[silverspawn]

That claim makes me feel worse about you. I was not going to lynch you then, now I might.

a) it's just a tracker. why would gkrieg invent a name? And is such a simple role plausible?
b) it's not two-parted

Can anyone else claim to have an ability with only one part? That would reveal next to no information to scum.

[faust]

Well, chairs should come in and confirm this at some point.

I do think that Cron has that power. Whether he's town... well who knows.

[Cellovix]

I think I believe Cron, though.

A targeted role like tracker makes a lot of sense given Jan was a redirector/busdriver or whatever.  He could presumably shield who made the kill from the track while alive.

@Silver

I can confirm that my ability only has one part, and is similarly simple/conventional.

[Seprix]

That claim makes me feel worse about you. I was not going to lynch you then, now I might.

a) it's just a tracker. why would gkrieg invent a name? And is such a simple role plausible?
b) it's not two-parted

Can anyone else claim to have an ability with only one part? That would reveal next to no information to scum.

I have an ability with only one part.

[silverspawn]

oh, okay then. That's enough.

Back to not wanting to lynch Cron, then.

[faust]

A targeted role like tracker makes a lot of sense given Jan was a redirector/busdriver or whatever.  He could presumably shield who made the kill from the track while alive.

What's that supposed to mean, "a targeted role"? Aren't almost all roles "targeted"?

[faust]

oh, okay then. That's enough.

Back to not wanting to lynch Cron, then.

Why? I guess you just didn't have a scumread on him pre-claim... is that right?

[silverspawn]

oh, okay then. That's enough.

Back to not wanting to lynch Cron, then.

Why? I guess you just didn't have a scumread on him pre-claim... is that right?

ya.

[silverspawn]

But there's actually more. Tracker is just not a likely role as mafia. It's so weak, mostly just good for a fake claim. If you want to give mafia an investigative role, I think something like followers or an invented thing would be more likely. Tracker particularly is much stronger for town.

[faust]

But there's actually more. Tracker is just not a likely role as mafia. It's so weak, mostly just good for a fake claim. If you want to give mafia an investigative role, I think something like followers or an invented thing would be more likely. Tracker particularly is much stronger for town.

That much is true. Of course, if Cron really was a scum Follower, he could have claimed to be a Tracker all the same because his result on chairs would be the same... but that's a bit contrived I guess.

[Cellovix]

A targeted role like tracker makes a lot of sense given Jan was a redirector/busdriver or whatever.  He could presumably shield who made the kill from the track while alive.

What's that supposed to mean, "a targeted role"? Aren't almost all roles "targeted"?

Most are I guess.  Was mostly just musing to myself that given what RR revealed about Jan's role, an info role like tracker, specifically, makes a lot of sense to me being on town.  Since Jan could shield the scum team from it much like a ninja would.   I design and host a lot of mafia games, so it was more my inner moderator nodding along with the claim and going "That makes sense and is pretty elegant, I like it."

[Cron]

I wasn't going to disclose a part of my role but after thinking about it, I strongly doubt the mafia have two re-directors and the information might help town. Jan being Maurie Parkman and me being Matt Parkman, I think it was specifically designed to dodge her alone.

My ability cannot be redirected.

[Cellovix]

Huh.

That doesn't really make sense to include from a design standpoint, but I'd need to know full setup to really analyse that.

However it makes even LESS sense to claim that as scum, so I'm pretty comfortable calling Cron extremely likely town.

[Cellovix]

I think I still want to lynch Haddock.  Fontisian is tempting me due to being deliberately obtuse and unhelpful, but I suspect that's playstyle indicative rather than alignment indicative.  Can anyone confirm?

[Seprix]

When someone gets lynched, I'm going to claim.

[J Reggie]

Sorry for disappearing, but I'm back now. People want me to claim so I will. I'm a neighborizer. Noah Bennet. I have teamlyle and haddock in my neighborhood. I targeted teamlyle n0 and he made a claim that made me almost sure he's town. I find haddock towny from what he's said in the neighborhood. Also, I have a secondary power which I don't want to claim yet, but it's 1-shot and should give me a pretty good idea whether anyone in my neighborhood is scum. Faust, sorry for not getting around to your question. I had to leave right after you asked. I will get around to answering you, probably tomorrow morning. So I don't think lynching haddock PR teamlyle makes sense here.

[Seprix]

Sorry for disappearing, but I'm back now. People want me to claim so I will. I'm a neighborizer. Noah Bennet. I have teamlyle and haddock in my neighborhood. I targeted teamlyle n0 and he made a claim that made me almost sure he's town. I find haddock towny from what he's said in the neighborhood. Also, I have a secondary power which I don't want to claim yet, but it's 1-shot and should give me a pretty good idea whether anyone in my neighborhood is scum. Faust, sorry for not getting around to your question. I had to leave right after you asked. I will get around to answering you, probably tomorrow morning. So I don't think lynching haddock PR teamlyle makes sense here.

I could have told you he was town already.

[faust]

I thought that this "townclear" on J Reggie was some weaksauce stuff like neighborizer. There are scum Neighborizers, you know? There is no reason for us to think he's town. Plus, why is Neighborizer such an amazing role that you want to play extra scummy just to use it?

[faust]

And, just to clarify, your Neighborhood gets one person added each time? Is there a limit to how many people can be in it? And is it open at all times?

[faust]

Finally, is Neighborizer your role name?

[silverspawn]

... vote: J Reggie

1) one person said you should claim. It was bad play if you're town. Don't do everything anyone says. Two people had you cleared, that's plenty

2) I'm glad you claimed because that does not prove you're town at all

[silverspawn]

3) teamlyle and haddock, wtf?

[Haddock]

I don't get it.
Neighbouriser CAN be a scum role.  But it usually isn't. I think it makes him likelier town on its own.  And he's been towny in the neighbourhood QT.  This should at least give people pause.

3) teamlyle and haddock, wtf?

Aimed at us, or are you asking reggie why he targetted us?

[silverspawn]

I don't get it.
Neighbouriser CAN be a scum role.  But it usually isn't. I think it makes him likelier town on its own.  And he's been towny in the neighbourhood QT.  This should at least give people pause.

3) teamlyle and haddock, wtf?

Aimed at us, or are you asking reggie why he targetted us?

aimed at you. why clear him if there's no reason to clear him?

Neighborizer is not alignment indicative.. The first one I ever used was scum, then in the next game I made him town just to have a bit of balance.

[silverspawn]

and furthermore, it's also one of the weakest PR's we probably have. J Reggie's "trying to be scummy not to get NK'd" is horrendous. You do that if you are one of the strongest PRs. If he was a cop, that would be good play. Not as a friggin neighborizer.

[Seprix]

J Reggie having a weak PR role does not make him 'lynchable' as much as a powerful role claim makes someone more unlynchable.

J Reggie looks really bad right now. I'm inclined to vote for him. Why shouldn't I?

[J Reggie]

and furthermore, it's also one of the weakest PR's we probably have. J Reggie's "trying to be scummy not to get NK'd" is horrendous. You do that if you are one of the strongest PRs. If he was a cop, that would be good play. Not as a friggin neighborizer.

I've already hinted that I have an investigative role on top of my neighborizer. I don't want to go any further into it. I think I've probably played badly this game and I wouldn't blame you if you lynch me, but I'm town.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie looks really bad right now. I'm inclined to vote for him. Why shouldn't I?

Because I'm town. And I'll try to play this game better from now on.

[Seprix]

J Reggie looks really bad right now. I'm inclined to vote for him. Why shouldn't I?

Because I'm town. And I'll try to play this game better from now on.

Saying you're town doesn't prove anything.

[J Reggie]

Look, I'm a town who up until this point has been very scummy. That's bad but I think we can make the most of this. I'm an easy mislynch for scum to push. I'm almost certain that scum has pushed my lynch. I'm going to go back to my previous wagons and tell you what I think.

[Cron]

I believe j reggie and I think the role is most likely town.

We're getting to a weird point where if all these softs and claims are town, running super low on options.

I need iguana to give full reads.

[iguanaiguana]

I don't get it.
Neighbouriser CAN be a scum role.  But it usually isn't. I think it makes him likelier town on its own.  And he's been towny in the neighbourhood QT.  This should at least give people pause.

3) teamlyle and haddock, wtf?

Aimed at us, or are you asking reggie why he targetted us?

Neighborizer is very often a scum role.

[iguanaiguana]

I believe j reggie and I think the role is most likely town.

We're getting to a weird point where if all these softs and claims are town, running super low on options.

I need iguana to give full reads.

I spent all my time for mafia today and don't actually have time to form reads : /

[iguanaiguana]

Here's the best I can do, a Jan reread:

Cellovix: He pushed Jan early, and Jan's first case ended with an OMGUS vote on him, I think that makes him more likely town. I also remember leaning towny more often than not on things he's posted.

If roadrunner flips town, good chance Fonti is town. Rarely sticks out her neck that much for a day 1 mafia read on a town as mafia.

This post still makes sense to me. Makes me lean town on Fonti and to an extent Cron. The fact that Jan picked it out as something scummy makes me lean further town on Cron.

Pretty sure this is the game where I've been like, yup, silver is most definitely town this game.

You can just kill me, but kill Seprix tomorrow for his shitshow push here.

The good thing is that I am living on borrowed time anyway because both me and RR will just die in the night now.

ggwp

kinda makes me lean town on Seprix. I think I was already there though.

So town on silver, Seprix, cellovix. slight town on fonti and Cron. Who is left?

Jreggie, Chairs, Faust, Haddock, Teamlyle.

Teamlyle had the derp clears this game. I still believe in them, they were beautiful. So town on Teamlyle.

I don't love a Faust lynch today.

I want to lynch in J Reggie, Haddock, Chairs.

[iguanaiguana]

And I'm voting J Reggie! Good news guys, I'm doing it. I'm doing a mafia.

[silverspawn]

See, for once we can townread each other. Isn't that nice?

[iguanaiguana]

See, for once we can townread each other. Isn't that nice?

I think we've townread each other in every game where we've both been town. Which as far as I know is two games, if this one counts.

[Cron]

Does anyone know lore about Noah Bennett?  I dunno this show at all

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.7


Cron (4): Haddock, J Reggie, teamlyle, iguanaiguana
Haddock (2): Cellovix, fontisian
J Reggie (3): faust, Seprix, silverspawn
iguanaiguana (1): chairs

Not Voting (1): Cron

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: J Reggie

[fontisian]

I will vote for Cron over JReggie, but I would prefer to vote for neither.

[teamlyle]

Does anyone know lore about Noah Bennett?  I dunno this show at all

http://heroeswiki.com/Noah_Bennet

Based on the wiki, I'm pretty sure he's town

[faust]

silverspawn is talking the sense. That is all I wanted to say for now.

[Haddock]

Does anyone know lore about Noah Bennett?  I dunno this show at all

http://heroeswiki.com/Noah_Bennet

Based on the wiki, I'm pretty sure he's town

Yep. I cannot see any flavour reason for there to be a scum!Noah.  And the title of the neighbourhood QT essentially confirms that reggie is not fake-flavour claiming.   So forget that he's a Neighbourizer; reggie is town because his flavour is mod-confirmed as towny flavour.

[Seprix]

Alright, you convinced me.

unvote

vote: Cron

[silverspawn]

I think this is a clear case. We lynch J Reggie.

[Seprix]

I think this is a clear case. We lynch J Reggie.

Wait, why?

[silverspawn]

he was the scummiest player before, and now his defense has turned out to be null-- scummy even.

[Haddock]

he was the scummiest player before, and now his defense has turned out to be null-- scummy even.

You'll have to explain to me how a player whose flavour name is mod-confirmed as Noah Bennett can possibly be scum. 

[silverspawn]

what? why should we give town cred for flavor names. scum has fake claims.

[Haddock]

what? why should we give town cred for flavor names. scum has fake claims.

Mod confirmed. It's in the title of the neighbourhood QT.

[silverspawn]

gah.

vote: faust

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.8


Cron (4): Haddock, J Reggie, teamlyle, Seprix
Haddock (2): Cellovix, fontisian
J Reggie (2): faust, iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
faust (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): Cron

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 35 hours

[silverspawn]

mhpf. What is the case on Cron?

[Cron]

I would also like to hear from each specific person voting on me why I'm mafia. You don't believe my claim? 

[faust]

This Noah Bennet guy cannot conceivably be scum? I mean the wiki page mentions him as working for the Company, and Jan said the Company is the bad guys.

Anyway I still want an answer from J Reggie.

[iguanaiguana]

what? why should we give town cred for flavor names. scum has fake claims.

Mod confirmed. It's in the title of the neighbourhood QT.

I've been thinking about this. This isn't mod-confirmed. It just means that he can make a neighborhood that has Noah Bennett in the title. It's not hard at all to imagine a scum role where the scum player can pretend to be Noah Bennett.

The very essence of a scum neighborizer role is that it is a person pretending to be good when evil. And the whole point of having neighborhoods instead of masonries is that the players don't know each other's alignments.

[Haddock]

This Noah Bennet guy cannot conceivably be scum? I mean the wiki page mentions him as working for the Company, and Jan said the Company is the bad guys.

Anyway I still want an answer from J Reggie.

Spoilers: he turns out to be scheming against the company all along. If I remember rightly.

I'm not at all sold on that, iguana. That would surely be very close to mod lying. I would struggle to picture that outside a bastard game.

[Haddock]

I think gkrieg should probably have just put no flavour name in the title of the neighbourhood QT.

[faust]

I think gkrieg should probably have just put no flavour name in the title of the neighbourhood QT.

Agreed. Well. I guess J Reggie is town after all, huh? Something about this still rubs me the wrong way (his play mostly), but oh well, unvote.

Can you expand on what you talked about in the neighborhood a bit?

[faust]

Also I would like J Reggie to explain why he picked the targets he did for the neighborizing.

[faust]

mhpf. What is the case on Cron?

There appears to be some groupthink going on. J Reggie's whole neighborhood is on the Cron wagon.

[iguanaiguana]

It honestly kinda seems like J Reggie's "neighborhood" is just "The Mafia."

That would be so stupid, but they are just playing like it is true.

[Haddock]

mhpf. What is the case on Cron?

There appears to be some groupthink going on. J Reggie's whole neighborhood is on the Cron wagon.

This is a bad misrepresentation. I gave a good case on Cron which most people totally ignored. #NotBitter

[silverspawn]

mhpf. What is the case on Cron?

There appears to be some groupthink going on. J Reggie's whole neighborhood is on the Cron wagon.

This is a bad misrepresentation. I gave a good case on Cron which most people totally ignored. #NotBitter

can you link to it?

[Cellovix]

It honestly kinda seems like J Reggie's "neighborhood" is just "The Mafia."

That would be so stupid, but they are just playing like it is true.

I thought about that, but Jan already flipped, Teamlyle is super unlikely to be scum, and that'd mean there's 4 scum in a 13 player game which doesn't seem great balance wise.

I don't like a Cron lynch at all, I believe the Tracker claim.

I think people are probably putting too much stock into flavor, as it seems pretty irrelevant.  That might just be me slightly grousing because I think Haddock and JReggie are scum together, and hard defending each other.

I'm not sure who I want to lynch if it's not either of those, though.  I have a town read of some variation on literally everyone else.

Unvote

Vote: Fontisian?

I thought she was town for the conviction behind her RR push on day one, and the deliberate unhelpfulness which just draws attention as scum, but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[faust]

I have to reread D1 to regain focus.

Jan focused on silver and me early on. Telling? I don't know. There might be ever so little indication that silver is scum, because I'm town, but really probably not.

Does it say that you like to kill people to learn how they "tick" and get their power?
Or does it say that you are from an island called haiti?
Do you own a pair of horn rimmed glasses?

I have learned enough flavor now to know that the first refers to Sylar, the second to the Haitian, and the third to Noah Bennet. Why does Jan refer to two scum-telly people and one that is apparently a real town-tell?

Cellovix is the first to put pressure onto Jan. Actually mild scumpoints for that, scum is more likely to register inactivity in their partner. Haddock takes a sort of hedgy position on Jan. Also doesn't look too good.

Then we have a big Jan post. Let's see what's in there:
- fighting with Cellovix. It feels a bit fake. I'm keeping my eye on you.
- implies that Seprix is scummy.
- nullish on fontisian
- slightly scummy on Cron
- townread on Haddock
Jan wouldn't give his partner as the only townread I don't think. So town points for Haddock. I'm decently certain that there is scum among the other players he mentioned.

Funny:

I was hoping to get a better reaction to analyze.

And I was hoping to get an invite to a neighborhood.

Okay, now we get into RR claim territory. Trigger warning for craziness.

Cron responds to RR having found a redirective role by not wanting him to talk about it and saying it's not alignment indicative. Scummy. His subsequent posts are also scummy.
Seprix asks him to stop talking as well. Slightly scummy. Then he admits that redirective roles are usually scum. Towny. I'm so conflicted.
J Reggie proposes that RR should claim. Towny, considering it will likely result in outing a scum role.
Haddock agrees.

Then the full claim comes. Seprix immediately votes Jan. That might be towny, but he also makes that weird "RR is IC" statement. Which would only be true after Jan's flip. Which Seprix already knows will turn out in RR's favor. So scummy again.
chairs just jumps on "sure why not". Town points.
Haddock says it's a choice between RR and Jan now, and votes Jan. Also inclined to say that's towny.
J Reggie has this post:

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

Man. I have to believe that he wouldn't make such a weakly reasoned post in favor of lynching RR first as Jan's partner.

teamlyle agrees, which actually is much much more scummy.
fontisian does weird stuff which is just weird.
Now J Reggie comes out with an "RR and Jan are both town" angle. Man, I had such a nice town read on you.
iguana refuses to comment. Scummy. Even careless bullshit iguana would do something, I think.
teamlyle jumps the Jan wagon at some point. It seems rather inevitable there already. This is null.
Same for iguana.
Cellovix goes out of his way to show us how he was voting Jan before it was cool. That seems scummy as well.

There is no mention in this post of silverspawn because he already had his reread.

Vote: Cellovix

[Cellovix]

That's kind of a misrepresentation of what I was doing D1, Faust.

I'd singled out Chairs, Haddock, and Jan as being three lurkers.  I voted Chairs. He came in with the "Oops, I totaled my Car" thing.  So I went and looked at the other two, Haddock mostly just hadn't been here at that point, where Jan was actively lurking. Popping in with flavor remarks but making minimal effort to play the game.  So I pressured him to do so, and he blatantly overreacted with OMGUS on me.

Could you give some clarity on your Fontisian read?

[faust]

Could you give some clarity on your Fontisian read?

I wish I had some.

[Cellovix]

I mean, I laughed.

But could you attempt to generate some?  Possibly interact with her in some form?

It's not just a random request, I promise.

I don't think the two of you can be scum together with the way the Hatian thing went down today, but if Haddock and JReggie are both town, the two of you are my lightest town reads and I'd like you to poke each other.

Trying to get Fontisian to do anything in particular has just gotten me ignored, so I figured I'd try with you.

[Haddock]

mhpf. What is the case on Cron?

There appears to be some groupthink going on. J Reggie's whole neighborhood is on the Cron wagon.

This is a bad misrepresentation. I gave a good case on Cron which most people totally ignored. #NotBitter

can you link to it?

So, stuff about Cron.
After a fairly typical opening post, his first thing is a reaction to the lyle thing. I've already said I think there was overreaction here, to the point of distraction. Crons response is particularly bizarre.  First he tries to play down the towniness of lyle's post, and then in his very next post he gives lyle a D1 pass. Sure, lyle is new, free d1 passes are fine. But it's just a super strange reason that Cron gives,  after at first trying to throw shade? Nyeh. I don't like it.

Then nothing for a while. Then this:

I like silverspawn. I understand, from his experience, why he thinks my derp clear read is bad. I can understand his logical flow on why he thinks my mafia, just wrong conclusion.

vote: Faust

I think he's posting for appearances. The whole pressure new players and going against the grain on the derp clear, feels for show and not genuine. I don't see any real game solving, just open questions and posts. I read his posts as trying to seem town and not trying to solve

It turns out that my points about Cron that I actually made  yesterday consisted of mentioning this post and saying I had a general bad vibe. Well this is still a really bad post.

The first half is classic "look how reasonable I'm being I totally see why you might think I'm scum" and the second half is tearing into faust for no good reason at all. Faust's analysis and contributions til this point had been solid stuff as usual and this whole thing rings false from Cron.

A bit of fluff then, pushing other people for content, sure no problem.  He townreads fonti, fine whatever, and then gives Jan a minor scumread which he immediately revokes when Jan responds. It's classic partner interaction:

Also jan talking about the game flavor early and bolting is how I remember him playing in WWF flavor game a while back. I'm watching you, jan. 

*Jan response*

I know nothing of Heroes except new Spock and Jess from gilmore girls are in it.  And I do remember you gave out true flavor clues as mafia. And you liking both subjects makes sense. Aight. Back to null.

And i can make weird ass plays as town.

Then he votes me for lurking. Sure. I guess that's fine. It's a weird feeling for me when im being super lurky like this. Being in another country is a decent excuse I hope.  And on D1 pushing for lurker lynches is probably fine.
He also starts pushing against the Jan lynch at the point. Just subtly and (significantly) not for content-related reasons.  Great way to look less bad later on.

His Seprix vote is absolutely awful, giving no reasons for a vote on a towny player.

For a while then he's mostly just pushing against discussion of roles. OK I give him town points for this, he does seem fairly genuinely frustrated.


He then lurks for literally the entire rest of the day while the Jan wagon goes down. I mean seriously. No posts at all for fricking ages.  Where he gets off accusing me of lurking I don't know.


Nothing much to say about D2. His first post is decent except he keeps pushing Seprix on the back of nothing.
And his push on me feels like an opportunistic attack on an absent player.  But it's bound to feel that way to me.

From his D1 play plus off-wagonness,  I like my vote where it is.

[silverspawn]

mh.

[J Reggie]

So in response to Faust about why I targeted who I targeted: I targeted teamlyle because he's new and might slip up as scum. I targeted haddock because I found him towny and didn't think he would die.

I asked Jan if he knew my flavor because that would out him and teamlyle as scum, and it's fishy that the horn rimmed glasses thing referred to me, but I think teamlyle is town so whatevs.

To Faust: I tried to start off D1 with a joking attitude and keep a high profile. I then was more carefree with my cases and reads, such as the one on ii that everyone hated. I was trying to be scummy enough that I wouldn't get NK'd before I used my second power but towny enough so I wouldn't get lynched. I obviously failed on the second part.

So that's where my thoughts are at. I actually think a fontisian wagon is a great idea here. In case I'm not already voting her, vote: fontisian. 

[fontisian]

Ok, now I dislike three wagons. That's the wrong direction. I suggest we go back to voting for Haddock, as his JReggie clear (the only reason I ever thought he was town his game) came under duress and the outburst that got Cron to unvote him wasn't remotely towny.

[fontisian]

For the record, there's a non zero chance faust is town reading me /because/ he thinks I'm mafia sided.

[Cellovix]

For the record, there's a non zero chance faust is town reading me /because/ he thinks I'm mafia sided.

Can you elaborate on this?  I can't quite wrap my head around what you mean.  Do you think he's town reading you because you're wrong and are beneficial for his scum team to keep alive?

[faust]

For the record, there's a non zero chance faust is town reading me /because/ he thinks I'm mafia sided.

I'm townreading you?

[Haddock]

Ok, now I dislike three wagons. That's the wrong direction. I suggest we go back to voting for Haddock, as his JReggie clear (the only reason I ever thought he was town his game) came under duress and the outburst that got Cron to unvote him wasn't remotely towny.

I don't regret my outburst. Say what you will about it.

But really?  You're telling me my reggie clear came under duress? What the hell does that even mean? I cleared him as well as I could as soon as a decent wagon formed on him. It's hardly my fault that silver and faust decided that my info wasn't enough to count as a clear.

I'm not liking Cellovix at all here. He's been on my radar for a while but it's hard to tell how much of my scumread on him is omgus. Now he claims to think reggie and I might be scum together?  How does teamlyle factor into that magical plan?

Yeah right now I think Cellovix and Cron would still be my first choice lynches.  Fonti is being considered by people. And. Well. Maybe. I'd need to reread her, not having managed to get much off her so far this game.  But she's not towny like some people are.

[Haddock]

That was supposed to be "I DO regret my outburst"

[Haddock]

For the record, there's a non zero chance faust is town reading me /because/ he thinks I'm mafia sided.

Yeah I'm gonna want an explanation of this too. Doesn't really make sense. At all.

[Cron]

I don't wanna lynch haddock or j reggie today. There has been minimum movement which leads me to believe mafia just waiting this out and hoping for one of us three be the lynch.

Give fonti one more day. I don't think jan and her are partners, she would've had way more fun and been more active if that was the case.

given Jan's role, is it possible mafia have a non-targeting ability?  Wouldn't my ability know if chairs made a night kill?  I think this makes chairs most likely town, don't want him today

I think seprix or cellovix or SS should be considered today. Liked iguana when he spoke today, Teamlyle and Faust are town leans.

Would love to know why seprix still thinks I'm mafia.

[silverspawn]

faust > Cello = Cron right now

vote: Cello

[Cron]

vote: seprix

So many lurkers. Yawn

Convince me you care, seprix.

[silverspawn]

faust > Cello = Cron right now

vote: Cello

We need a lynch.

Please vote one of those three.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.9


Cron (3): Haddock, teamlyle, Seprix
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
Cellovix (2): faust, silverspawn
fontisian (2): Cellovix, J Reggie
Seprix (1): Cron

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 7 hours

[Cellovix]

I didn't realize deadline was quite so soon.

I do not want to lynch Cron.  I believe the tracker claim.

I'm willing to vote Haddock, Fontisian, or Faust.

[Cellovix]

faust > Cello = Cron right now

vote: Cello

If your preference is Faust, why would you follow him onto a lynch when he's literally only other person making that vote?

[silverspawn]

faust > Cello = Cron right now

vote: Cello

If your preference is Faust, why would you follow him onto a lynch when he's literally only other person making that vote?

because no-one was voting faust.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.10


Cron (3): Haddock, teamlyle, Seprix
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
Cellovix (2): faust, silverspawn
fontisian (2): Cellovix, J Reggie
Seprix (1): Cron

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 5 hours

Cron would currently be lynched with 3 votes being the most.

[Haddock]

Well I'll stick with Cron for now but happy to switch to Cellovix if that wagon grows.  Faust doesn't seem like an option to me. Fonti could be maybe but I would need some persuading to go there.

[Cron]

Wtf is this?  "Well I still think Cron is mafia but I will vote on this person if it gets more". Grow some balls and vote who you think is mafia.

If you think I'm mafia, fine. Be wrong. When I die, maybe you'll play better.

[Cron]

It's hilarious, i would probably be the night kill tonight. Mafia is loving this.

Nevermind chairs hasn't even returned to verify my claim.

Fonti not jumping up and down and screaming at how dumb this is is INSANE btw. Fonti wtf are you doing?!  I'd vote for you if I didn't think you were a strong pr roll. Fonti is either a very good pr roll or mafia, remember this when I'm dead.

[Haddock]

Wtf is this?  "Well I still think Cron is mafia but I will vote on this person if it gets more". Grow some balls and vote who you think is mafia.

I'm doing so. I think I've made it very clear where I stand.  If you wanted to convince me you were town you might start by playing sensibly. We have less than 6 hours to get a lynch.  It is towny to try to vote for wagons that are likely to lead to a lynch even if it's not your first choice lynch.  By contrast, your seprix vote is incredibly antitown.  Don't you dare call me antitown.

[silverspawn]

Alright. Let's try vote: faust one last time. Anyone?

[Cellovix]

Seprix isn't going to happen in like 4.5 hours, Cron, given how dead this game has been.

• I'm town.

• I think you're town.

• I think Lyle is town.

• I'm inclined to agree that you not getting a result makes Chairs more likely town (and almost no chance he pops in between now and deadline anyways).

• Seprix softed an info check on Lyle.

 

• Reggie has the neighborizer thing with apparently an info partition (I'd honestly be pretty surprised if one of him/Seprix isn't scum as that's a lot of info, but I don't necessarily want to deal with that today).

• Silver has mostly been behaviorally town, although his vote on me when it conflicts with his Faust read feels like it could be pushing agenda.

• I think Iguana is scum approximately never with the carefree way he's been Wagons!ing.

• I'm partial to people who actually effort and attempt to analyse, so don't really want to lynch Faust, even though he's plausibly scum.

• Fontisian was light town for the conviction in the RR push, but has been deliberately unhelpful and shows no real drive to solve.

• Haddock is kind of a shrug lynch, but I think he's probably the most likely scum in a vacuum.  He could be sorted out by JReggie's info thing though, potentially.

What does that really leave?  I don't think I'm willing to lynch outside of Haddock/Fontisian/Faust, but I don't love any of the three as a lynch for the reasons stated.

[Cron]

How is voting seprix anti town?  Cello and SS are at least contributing. Seprix hasn't done shit. I wanna hear why he's voting me.

I mean, you are anti town. Whether you're town or mafia is still up for debate. I'm leaning town.

I don't want to vote you or j reggie. And I'm town. So no I won't vote on lead wagons. I wanna hear from seprix. If I die, I die. I'll flip town and maybe you can play better with that info.

[Cellovix]

Hm.  I could lynch Faust, Silver.  Just he's one of the only people actually putting in effort, regardless of alignment.

[Cron]

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

[silverspawn]

well, faust is always putting in effort.

[Seprix]

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

[Cellovix]

well, faust is always putting in effort.

Yeah, I get that it's not alignment indicative.

I dunno.  When half the game is barely playing, and my posts get virtually no response most of the time, and 1-2 players straight up refused to answer questions I posed at them, I just don't love the idea of killing someone who actually makes the game feel like mafia.

Going to go re-read the start of Day Two where Faust did that slow roll of the Night One thing.

[Cron]

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

If this is true, I would consider Faust and Fonti today and Ive been super wrong and I apologize.

[Cron]

unvote vote: Faust

[Haddock]

How is voting seprix anti town?  Cello and SS are at least contributing. Seprix hasn't done shit. I wanna hear why he's voting me.

Am I going mad? How is this a question?
We need a lynch. Right now. Seprix is not going to be lynched in like 3 hours. Put your vote somewhere where it might actually lead to a lynch. This is basic stuff.


Nyeehhhhh. Cellovix may be scum,  but he's right about faust, I think. I won't go with that unless it's the only way to get a lynch.

PPE. Well at least that's better than seprix, Cron.

[Seprix]

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

If this is true, I would consider Faust and Fonti today and Ive been super wrong and I apologize.

I can reveal my role tomorrow, which all but guarantees a town win. All we have to do is hit scum today.

[Seprix]

vote: Faust in case I was not doing this already.

[Cron]

I feel better about haddock. I think his frustration is genuine with me this game.

I like getting rises out of people. 

[Cellovix]

How is voting seprix anti town?  Cello and SS are at least contributing. Seprix hasn't done shit. I wanna hear why he's voting me.

Am I going mad? How is this a question?
We need a lynch. Right now. Seprix is not going to be lynched in like 3 hours. Put your vote somewhere where it might actually lead to a lynch. This is basic stuff.


Nyeehhhhh. Cellovix may be scum,  but he's right about faust, I think. I won't go with that unless it's the only way to get a lynch.

PPE. Well at least that's better than seprix, Cron.

Put your vote somewhere it might actually lead to a lynch.

The lynch is not going to be on the claimed tracker on day two, when he claimed a result of a player taking no action, which would be really brazen unless they're both scum, in a game highlighted as role heavy.

[Cellovix]

I feel better about haddock. I think his frustration is genuine with me this game.

I like getting rises out of people. 

Would you mind giving something akin to a full reads list/thought dump before the day ends?

[Cron]

Believe j reggie

Believe seprix and teamlyle now

Haddock feels town with our back and forth

I'm warming up to cellovix

At most one between Faust and SS

Chairs had no action last night

Fonti might have a high chance of being mafia now.

[Haddock]

How is voting seprix anti town?  Cello and SS are at least contributing. Seprix hasn't done shit. I wanna hear why he's voting me.

Am I going mad? How is this a question?
We need a lynch. Right now. Seprix is not going to be lynched in like 3 hours. Put your vote somewhere where it might actually lead to a lynch. This is basic stuff.


Nyeehhhhh. Cellovix may be scum,  but he's right about faust, I think. I won't go with that unless it's the only way to get a lynch.

PPE. Well at least that's better than seprix, Cron.

Put your vote somewhere it might actually lead to a lynch.

The lynch is not going to be on the claimed tracker on day two, when he claimed a result of a player taking no action, which would be really brazen unless they're both scum, in a game highlighted as role heavy.

Well he's still the current leading lynch isn't he? You're not exactly helping yourself since you're my other option right now...

I forgot about the majority lynch rules.  So I'm again in the position of having to apologise to Cron. Given the majority thing I guess seprix wasn't a total impossibility as lynches go. 

[Cellovix]

I'd like to see Chairs and Iguana come in and make relevant votes.

I mean, I'd like to see Chairs do literally anything, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Cellovix]

Scum. I don't know much about the flavor but I'm 80% sure that's scum.

This was his last post. A week ago.  On the 21st.

[Haddock]

vote count?

[Cellovix]

I think Faust has 3, Fontisian has 2, Cron has 2, I have 1, You have 1, Reggie has 1, Iguana has 1, after a quick eyeball of this page.

[Cron]

I'll be out at a bar for trivia and they frown using your phones so I might be having to go in like.... 90 mins. So I hope Faust comes in soon.

I would vote Fonti too at this point. I'm hoping there's no converter role or something. My only fear.

[faust]

Hello, I have come. Why are people voting for me, exactly?

[Seprix]

I'll be out at a bar for trivia and they frown using your phones so I might be having to go in like.... 90 mins. So I hope Faust comes in soon.

I would vote Fonti too at this point. I'm hoping there's no converter role or something. My only fear.

I'm with you, Cloud man.

[faust]

I'm not lynching a claimed investigative role on D2. I don't think I want to lynch fonti, because I doubt she would have reacted to my vanillaised claim the way she did if she was scum. These seem to be the relevant options right now. Well done, guys.

I could vote for silver, Haddock, Seprix I think. I always confuse my two games though, so let me check.

[faust]

I could also lynch iguana.

By the way, am I the only one who has done a proper reread for Jan interactions? Amazing.

[Cellovix]

3.5 hours left in day, I need to go pick up the kid and do food stuff, but should be back for last hour or so.

I prefer Fontisian over Faust. Haddock is probably my preference, but I am willing to give JReggie a night to handle that.

[faust]

Well, both Cellovix and Haddock are around, which means we might need them to lynch, so from a pragmatical point of view, I should probably vote: iguana

[faust]

Oh, this is "most votes gets lynched", right? Well that's good and bad. Bad because I have the most votes right now and donÄt even know why. Good because it's more likely we'll actually get a lynch.

[faust]

Vote: fontisian then. Sorry, better you than me.

If someone shows up and does  stuff, you know, I'm with you. But it seems that I'm on my own here.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.11


Cron (2): Haddock, teamlyle
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
fontisian (3): Cellovix, J Reggie, faust
faust (3): silverspawn, Cron, Seprix

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 3+ hours

faust or fontisian (coin flip) would currently be lynched with 3 votes being the most.

[faust]

Request prod on chairs

[Haddock]

If voting for fontisian saves faust I will do so at deadline.

I really think we should be trying to get a full lynch though.  I guess I could go iguana?  eww chairs is the one currently voting him?  Nyeh.
PPE some.

[gkrieg13]

Request prod on chairs

Prodded

[faust]

If voting for fontisian saves faust I will do so at deadline.

I really think we should be trying to get a full lynch though.  I guess I could go iguana?  eww chairs is the one currently voting him?  Nyeh.
PPE some.

Vote: iguana Does this help?

[faust]

I'll try to be around for the deadline if I don't fall asleep first.

[gkrieg13]

By the way, I may not be around at deadline (looking at houses today, we'll see if it takes more than 1.5 hours).  If this is the case, any votes cast after the deadline won't count.  I will take a vote count that includes any votes cast before the deadline when I get back. 

Again, I will probably be there at deadline, but if I'm not, this is how I am choosing to handle it because I shouldn't be more than 30 minutes late.

[silverspawn]

Jan voting history:

#106: Jan votes silverspawn (L-5)
#376: Jan votes Cellovix (L-5)

fascinating stuff.

You are right, though, we should reread for interactions.

[Haddock]

Alright if Cellovix and Cron are both not happening we can give that a try I guess.

vote: iguana

Wait igu is voting Reggie still?  It's possible that's enough on its own to justify a vote.

chairs and iguana should both move their votes.  fonti too, but y'know.

[silverspawn]

well there isn't much there.

[silverspawn]

super meh on iguana

[faust]

Alright if Cellovix and Cron are both not happening we can give that a try I guess.

Would go Cellovix over iguana if the votes are there. I would not go for Cron unless to save my own skin.

[faust]

super meh on iguana

His position on the Jan wagon is scummy, and the way he voted. But yeah, it's not the most amazing thing ever.

[Haddock]

Alright if Cellovix and Cron are both not happening we can give that a try I guess.

Would go Cellovix over iguana if the votes are there. I would not go for Cron unless to save my own skin.

They were there but they evaporated.  I'd rather Cellovix than iguana, if people are willing to come with me on that one?

[Cron]

the problem I see is I don't see Faust with SS, cello, or Fonti. The first two because of interactions and I don't see Fonti softing that thing on Faust as his partner and both of them just disappearing.

If Faust is mafia, I could maybe see him with iguana?  Or I'm wrong on haddock. Or a claim is fake.

Or Faust could just be town.

Maybe iguana?  Or fonti?  I'm not comfortable going afk on Faust before I leave.

vote: iguana

Let's see if something happens before I leave.

[Cron]

If I didn't track chairs I would 100% just lynch him

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.12


Cron (1): teamlyle
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (4): chairs, faust, Haddock, Cron
fontisian (2): Cellovix, J Reggie
faust (2): silverspawn, Seprix

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 2+ hours

iguanaiguana would currently be lynched with 4 votes being the most.

[J Reggie]

Guaranteed not to be around for deadline. vote: ii. 

[Haddock]

Guaranteed not to be around for deadline. vote: ii.

L-1.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.13


Cron (1): teamlyle
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (5): chairs, faust, Haddock, Cron, J Reggie {L-1}
fontisian (1): Cellovix
faust (2): silverspawn, Seprix

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 2+ hours

iguanaiguana would currently be lynched with 5 votes being the most.

[faust]

If I didn't track chairs I would 100% just lynch him

He stands to be replaced I think, so there's hope.

[faust]

I feel relatively comfortable about the ii wagon. It has some of my townier reads on it. But I think I would prefer Cello. Not sure we can get there.

[Seprix]

Iguana has been unhelpful, and he's done it as scum. However, I somehow get a town vibe from him.

[Haddock]

I'm gonna have to go to bed really soon. So last chance for a jump to Cellovix.  Faust I'm game if you are but we need to be confident that it will actually lead to something.

[Haddock]

vote: Cellovix ?

[Haddock]

No? Ok vote: iguana it is then.
L-1 again.

I have to sleep now.  Fingers crossed!

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.14


Cron (1): teamlyle
Haddock (1): fontisian
J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (5): chairs, faust, Cron, J Reggie, Haddock {L-1}
fontisian (1): Cellovix
faust (2): silverspawn, Seprix

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in about an hour

iguanaiguana would currently be lynched with 5 votes being the most.

[J Reggie]

I'm going to go with my conscience and vote: Faust.

[silverspawn]

4/3 now

[faust]

I'm going to go with my conscience and vote: Faust.

I'd like to understand what that's all about.

[faust]

I'll just sit here and hope that iguana doesn't show up for the deadline.

[faust]

We can always start a last minute silverspawn wagon.

[faust]

Seriously, the guy did little but push my lynch for little to no reasons for the whole day. I mean. He never even bothered to respond to what I said. It's irritating.

[faust]

Hey, silver! Now, you have 23 minutes to make it all better.

[teamlyle]

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

Yes, Seprix is town.

[faust]

The whole "silent observer of the last hours" thing is scummy for silver too. I thought he was gone earlier, but now I think he's just stuck around the whole time. Why not say something?

[faust]

Oy, teamlyle! Why not move your vote somewhere useful (hint: not to me).

[faust]

Yes, Seprix is town.

And what's this all about? There are too many townclears for sure. Either gkrieg messed this setup up royally or something fishy is going on.

[teamlyle]

Oy, teamlyle! Why not move your vote somewhere useful (hint: not to me).

unvote

I'm still not quite sure about lynching iguana, I don't exactly see why he is scummy except for his "wagons," but that could just be a joke.

[faust]

The way he jumped the Jan wagon was scummy I thought.

Honestly, there are better lynches, but we're not likely to get them in, like, 18 minutes.

[silverspawn]

The whole "silent observer of the last hours" thing is scummy for silver too. I thought he was gone earlier, but now I think he's just stuck around the whole time. Why not say something?

I just got more confident in your lynch, not less while I was watching. You seemed to be too accepting for my taste.

[silverspawn]

and I won't lynch iguana.

[fontisian]

Vote: Faust

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.15


J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (4): chairs, faust, Cron, Haddock
fontisian (1): Cellovix
faust (4): silverspawn, Seprix, J Reggie, fontisian

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 10 minutes

iguanaiguana or faust (coin flip) would currently be lynched with 4 votes being the most.

[faust]

Vote: Faust

Great. A last minute unexplained vote. You are worse than Awaclus.

Vote: fontisian any takers?

[faust]

The whole "silent observer of the last hours" thing is scummy for silver too. I thought he was gone earlier, but now I think he's just stuck around the whole time. Why not say something?

I just got more confident in your lynch, not less while I was watching. You seemed to be too accepting for my taste.

Accepting? Accepting what?

[faust]

Whatevs, it coin flip now. silver, might a claim convince you to switch your vote? Otherwise I won't bother.

[faust]

teamlyle, where are you? Now would be a good time to vote.

[silverspawn]

The whole "silent observer of the last hours" thing is scummy for silver too. I thought he was gone earlier, but now I think he's just stuck around the whole time. Why not say something?

I just got more confident in your lynch, not less while I was watching. You seemed to be too accepting for my taste.

Accepting? Accepting what?

you didn't really get upset... until right now.

Mh.

vote: fontisian

[silverspawn]

she's been really lurky and now you're doing what I thought you'd do as town.

but I townread iguana. I still rather lynch you than him.

[faust]

The whole "silent observer of the last hours" thing is scummy for silver too. I thought he was gone earlier, but now I think he's just stuck around the whole time. Why not say something?

I just got more confident in your lynch, not less while I was watching. You seemed to be too accepting for my taste.

Accepting? Accepting what?

you didn't really get upset... until right now.

Mh.

vote: fontisian

Well until now I thought I would not get lynched. And I did get upset by unexplained votes on me.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.16


J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (3): chairs, Cron, Haddock
fontisian (3): Cellovix, faust, silverspawn
faust (3): Seprix, J Reggie, fontisian

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.  Day 2 ends Thursday July 28, 9PM.  That is in 4 minutes

iguanaiguana or faust or fontisian(die roll?) would currently be lynched with 3 votes being the most.

[silverspawn]

whelp.

[faust]

TEAAAAAAAMMLYYYYYYYYYLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silverspawn]

I was going to switch to you to avoid the random lynch up until that post.

maybe I'm letting myself being manipulated... but now it doesn't feel right anymore.

[faust]

Vote: iguana

Sorry, I'm not taking the 3-way die roll.

[silverspawn]

vote: faust

[faust]

Well, That didn't sync up.

Fingers crossed.

[silverspawn]

yeah.

[faust]

At the very least, 1/3 death chance is better than 1/2, right?

[silverspawn]

now flipflipflipflip...

At the very least, 1/3 death chance is better than 1/2, right?

yes?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.final


J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (3): chairs, Cron, Haddock
fontisian (3): Cellovix, faust, silverspawn
faust (3): Seprix, J Reggie, fontisian

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

No lynch was decided at day's end.  A die will be rolled to determine who is lynched.  1 for iguanaiguana, 2 for fontisian, 3 for faust.

Rolled 1d3 : 2, total 2

[faust]

[silverspawn]

 

gogogogo!!

[silverspawn]

show me

[fontisian]

Ayyyy.

Make a choice, Teamlyle.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.final


J Reggie (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (3): chairs, Cron, Haddock
fontisian (3): Cellovix, faust, silverspawn
faust (3): Seprix, J Reggie, fontisian

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

No lynch was decided at day's end.  A die was rolled to determine who is lynched. 

As Nathan was grieving over the loss of his brother, he became more frantic to discover who was still behind this.  Why were they targeting his brother?  Who would be next?

He searched frantically through his files and came up with three names.  These were the best leads his team could come up with. 

Each of them had their merits, but none seemed more likely than the others.  As he met with his team to discuss the three could-be criminals, his team couldn't come to a conclusion of who was most likely.  They knew they needed to act to stop this organization before they struck again.

As the end came to their meeting, they were still unsure.  Nathan decided the only reasonable thing to do is roll a die to determine their fate.

The die came up a 2, and fontisian was their decision.

fontisian has been lynched!  She was The Haitian, The Silent Ability-Blocker

[gkrieg13]

Night 2 begins now and ends in 48 hours, however I will try to shorten the night so that it starts in the morning instead of the evening, because that is much easier for me at the moment.

Night action deadline in 24 hours, or Friday at 9PM

THREAD LOCKED

[gkrieg13]

Just in case it wasn't clear, fontisian was town

[gkrieg13]

night action deadline in an hour

[gkrieg13]

As Nathan was pondering the strange events that had taken place in the last little bit, he once again went to his office.  After talking to his secretary and sending some emails, he came across a startling email with the subject: Your friends are in trouble!

As he opened the email, it read:
"Nathan,

I have been following a recent kidnapping of not one, but two Evos!

I just saw them being taken, but I don't know where they have gone!

They were heading downtown, but you better hurry!  I'm not sure how long they have.

-Anonymous"

Nathan quickly got into his car to investigate downtown.  As he was rolling up to an abandoned warehouse that was reported for suspicious activity, he saw fresh tire tracks.

He ran inside, and when he got there, he saw two figures lying on the ground.  He ran up to them and found that it was Hiro Nakamura and Matt Parkman.  They were both dead.  But their killers must've left only moments before.  Nathan could catch them if he could hurry.

Cron and Seprix were killed in the night.  Cron was Matt Parkman,the Mind-Reading Detective and Seprix was Hiro Nakamura, The Master of Time and Space

[gkrieg13]

Day 3 begins now!

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting(8): JReggie, Cellovix, silverspawn, Chairs, Faust,iguanaiguana, Haddock, teamlyle

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends Tuesday August 9, 12PM

THREAD UNLOCKED

[gkrieg13]

RoadRunner7671 replaces chairs!

[silverspawn]

stupid green.

[Cellovix]

Hm.

Vote: JReggie

RR was confirmed Rolecop, Cron confirmed tracker, Seprix and Lyle knew each other were town (and Seprix is confirmed), and JReggie claims he has an information component to his neighborize.

I think that smells fishy.

I think I'm back to believing in Haddock/JReggie, and that deal they pulled yesterday was just them hard defending each other in a desperation move.

[Cellovix]

I'm guessing a town vig shot Seprix?  Should we have them claim the kill?  Was a very poor shot regardless with him and Lyle confirming each other as town.

[silverspawn]

why would a vig shoot seprix? Isn't cron the more likely vig target?

[Cellovix]

The claimed tracker who knew Chairs targeted no one N1? Like.  Idk, I guess it's possible but that'd be an even worse shot. 

[Cellovix]

Silver what are your thoughts on Faust after how the day end went down?

[faust]

Well this sucks.

At first I believed we had caught some bad guy in fonti, because her flip was weirdly colored. Oh well.

I hope J Reggie used his claimed investigative power. Otherwise let's lynch him.

[silverspawn]

Silver what are your thoughts on Faust after how the day end went down?

I wish I had left my vote on him.

[faust]

Silver what are your thoughts on Faust after how the day end went down?

I wish I had left my vote on him.

Quite understandable, this.

[faust]

Is anyone weirded out by RR replacing chairs? Like, didn't RR have an investigative power? How can you let someone like that sub back in, someone who knows that much? He at the very least knows how he used his gained power N1.

This seems like bad modding. Sorry, gkrieg. But since we're in this situation, RR, what actions did you take N1?

[faust]

I'm guessing a town vig shot Seprix?  Should we have them claim the kill?  Was a very poor shot regardless with him and Lyle confirming each other as town.

Also, uh. Vote: Cellovix. Should have done it yesterday.

[silverspawn]

Is anyone weirded out by RR replacing chairs? Like, didn't RR have an investigative power? How can you let someone like that sub back in, someone who knows that much? He at the very least knows how he used his gained power N1.

This seems like bad modding. Sorry, gkrieg. But since we're in this situation, RR, what actions did you take N1?

oh. I had forgotten that RR used to be in the game.

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree. This isn't okay.

[gkrieg13]

I will try to find a better replacement for chairs because of the strong objections from multiple players.

[gkrieg13]

EFHW replaces chairs!

Thanks again!

[J Reggie]

I have results. I will report tomorrow, when I'm more awake and not semi v/la.

[J Reggie]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

[J Reggie]

Also, everyone please check their cuties (QTs) for an invite to my neighborhood.

[J Reggie]

Now I need some sleep. I stayed up too late playing Empires. Wait, is that even possible?

[faust]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

That is quite a lot you're asking. Are you quite sure it's worth it?

[teamlyle]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

I am Ando, the Vanillaised sidekick.

I have no ability. My QT says that I feel like there's something special about me, but there isn't.

[J Reggie]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

That is quite a lot you're asking. Are you quite sure it's worth it?

I think that haddock needs to claim. Just a few more hours and I'll be more free.

[iguanaiguana]

Mass claim? Are we close to Lylo?

[silverspawn]

that depends on whether the second kill was a second scum team or a vig. Theoretically, we have had only one mislynch. We shouldn't be at LyLo.

[Haddock]

Well that was a sucky series of events.

I can't believe Cron was town.  That's thrown me totally.  Another thing that's thrown me is fonti's flavour.  town!Haitian makes no sense to me at all.  And in a world where the Haitian is somehow a town role, Noah Bennet could be scum. 
I still think Reggie is town, but he's no longer basically an IC. 

lyle, however, is an IC.  The thing with Seprix and him makes perfect sense now.  I can't believe I didn't put it all together when lyle claimed Vanilla Sidekick in Reggie's neighbourhood.


I'm beginning to think some of my townreads must be wrong.  With Reggie seeming really towny to me and lyle an IC, who's left?

Cellovix, iguana, EFHW/chairs, faust, silver

Nyeh.  I had a look at Cellovix and had a think, overnight.  I'm not sold on scum!him any more.  He was really dedicated to the town!Cron idea, in a way that doesn't look like a grab for townpoints.  His dedication to finding me scummy also starts reading quite towny - scum have much easier targets than me to go for.

chairs is basically entirely null.  His wagon positioning is not the best, but that's all we have.  Hopefully EFHW will have something to get a read off.

Which leaves faust, silver and iguana for me to read.  Til now faust and silver have been strong townreads for me and iguana very mild scum.  But apparently I need to rethink everything.  There's gotta be at least one scum in those 3.

Reggie, I've replied to your request that I claim in your neighbourhood.  Summary:  I might be willing to claim in the neighbourhood, but I'm not gonna claim in this thread right now.

[faust]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

I am Ando, the Vanillaised sidekick.

I have no ability. My QT says that I feel like there's something special about me, but there isn't.

That is weird. How did you know anything about Seprix?

[faust]

lyle an IC

 

[iguanaiguana]

Haddockscummy

[Haddock]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

I am Ando, the Vanillaised sidekick.

I have no ability. My QT says that I feel like there's something special about me, but there isn't.

That is weird. How did you know anything about Seprix?

It's flavour again.

The time travelling guy in the show has a Sidekick with no powers. That's who lyle is. Seprix's buddy. They confirmed each other, and the flavour is perfect. I don't see aby way in which gkrieg could justify making time travel guy's Sidekick  (who is indeed called Andover I think) a scum.

Seprix did confirm that Lyle was connected to him somewhere,  right? I'm not imagining that.

[Haddock]

Ando*

[iguanaiguana]

I'm willing to claim. I have very little to lose by it.

[iguanaiguana]

Here, I'll start with this.

I know of the existence of a motivator in the game, although I fear it may have been Cron, as he was master of time and space.

My role has two parts.

The first part is a time traveling role that I can't use unless I get motivated. I haven't been motivated, so I haven't been able to use it.

The second part of my role is one shot, and I haven't used that either.

So I've done nothing at night.

[faust]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

I am Ando, the Vanillaised sidekick.

I have no ability. My QT says that I feel like there's something special about me, but there isn't.

That is weird. How did you know anything about Seprix?

It's flavour again.

The time travelling guy in the show has a Sidekick with no powers. That's who lyle is. Seprix's buddy. They confirmed each other, and the flavour is perfect. I don't see aby way in which gkrieg could justify making time travel guy's Sidekick  (who is indeed called Andover I think) a scum.

Seprix did confirm that Lyle was connected to him somewhere,  right? I'm not imagining that.

There is such a thing as a fake claim, you know? And we don't know how much Seprix actually knew about this connection, so I'm trying to figure that out.

[Haddock]

Until then, I suggest that those in my neighborhood claim their roles and targets.

I am Ando, the Vanillaised sidekick.

I have no ability. My QT says that I feel like there's something special about me, but there isn't.

That is weird. How did you know anything about Seprix?

It's flavour again.

The time travelling guy in the show has a Sidekick with no powers. That's who lyle is. Seprix's buddy. They confirmed each other, and the flavour is perfect. I don't see aby way in which gkrieg could justify making time travel guy's Sidekick  (who is indeed called Andover I think) a scum.

Seprix did confirm that Lyle was connected to him somewhere,  right? I'm not imagining that.

There is such a thing as a fake claim, you know? And we don't know how much Seprix actually knew about this connection, so I'm trying to figure that out.

Sure, but seprix confirmed this, I'm certain of it. Let me hunt that out.

[faust]

Here, I'll start with this.

I know of the existence of a motivator in the game, although I fear it may have been Cron, as he was master of time and space.

My role has two parts.

The first part is a time traveling role that I can't use unless I get motivated. I haven't been motivated, so I haven't been able to use it.

The second part of my role is one shot, and I haven't used that either.

So I've done nothing at night.

Do you know if the role is in fact a Motivator role, as in the standard mafiascum Motivator?

Also you're confusing Cron and Sperix I think.

[faust]

Sure, but seprix confirmed this, I'm certain of it. Let me hunt that out.

Seprix can be wrong, as can we all. I would prefer to make that judgment myself.

[Haddock]

OK so I cite these:

Not to mention, Teamyle is town. I can confirm this later on in the day. I have a lot of things to say as well, but I have to debate whether I should be saying them now or waiting until tomorrow.

We should look heavily at teamlyle and haddock today.

I can tell you for certain that Teamyle is town.

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

I just highly doubt there's 4 town voting me. And I think j reggie and haddock are town for reasons already stated. Seprix clearing teamlyle makes it super weird. Great he softed a clear on seprix. So he gets a full pass?  No. I think it's more likely he's mafia clearing s town that was on zero danger anyways, not like teamlyle was on any chopping block

So yea seprix for now.

Teamyle can clear me as town as well.

Yes, Seprix is town.

I don't see Seprix making such confident statements about clearing people unless they're completely certain.  This has to be a role thing. 
I mean, how exactly does lyle ever manage to fake this as scum?  He claims Vanilla Sidekick really early on in Reggie's neighbourhood, and then somehow manages to pick Seprix (apropos of nothing) as the right person to try to fool, then successfully hoodwinks Seprix somehow, Seprix being the only person in the game who has flavour matching with what lyle claimed all along?  No way. 

I would like lyle to explain why he voted Seprix at one point D1.  But I think we can all guess the answer to that question.

I'm really not sure what I think about faust trying to fight against people becoming ICs.  Having ICs is a good thing, why are you so keen to push against it faust?

[iguanaiguana]

Here, I'll start with this.

I know of the existence of a motivator in the game, although I fear it may have been Cron, as he was master of time and space.

My role has two parts.

The first part is a time traveling role that I can't use unless I get motivated. I haven't been motivated, so I haven't been able to use it.

The second part of my role is one shot, and I haven't used that either.

So I've done nothing at night.

Do you know if the role is in fact a Motivator role, as in the standard mafiascum Motivator?

Also you're confusing Cron and Sperix I think.

I believe so, My role says basically If the motivator targets you, you can travel back in time, to [redacted].

[faust]

I don't see Seprix making such confident statements about clearing people unless they're completely certain.  This has to be a role thing.

We're talking a guy that claimed to be Lover with a scum in order to save them as town. I'm sure he knew something about teamlyle. But I want to know what. Agreed that the early clears make it more likely teamlyle is actually town.

I mean, how exactly does lyle ever manage to fake this as scum?  He claims Vanilla Sidekick really early on in Reggie's neighbourhood, and then somehow manages to pick Seprix (apropos of nothing) as the right person to try to fool, then successfully hoodwinks Seprix somehow, Seprix being the only person in the game who has flavour matching with what lyle claimed all along?  No way.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm really not sure what I think about faust trying to fight against people becoming ICs.  Having ICs is a good thing, why are you so keen to push against it faust?

Should have seen that one coming.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Haddock

[iguanaiguana]

It's either Haddock/J Reggie, or Faust/somebuddy.

Let's find out!

[Haddock]

It's either Haddock/J Reggie, or Faust/somebuddy.

Let's find out!

Wow. That's a hell of a claim.  Care to back it up?

[iguanaiguana]

Welp, you two are mega scummy, defending each other to the teeth the past two days in a very "We both know the other is town, so we must be town" way. It's super duper suspicious and awful. Your 180 "J Reggie could actually be scum today" flip today also looks really fake, like you are hedging your bets in case we lynch Reggie. Aren't you supposed to hedge less as the game goes on when you're town? Plus, the main person who suspected you both, Cron, is dead today.

OTOH, Faust is still alive on Day 3.

That's pretty much my reasoning.

[EFHW]

Hey everyone.  I've been generally following along, going to reread now in light of the recent flips.

[Haddock]

Welp, you two are mega scummy, defending each other to the teeth the past two days in a very "We both know the other is town, so we must be town" way. It's super duper suspicious and awful. Your 180 "J Reggie could actually be scum today" flip today also looks really fake, like you are hedging your bets in case we lynch Reggie. Aren't you supposed to hedge less as the game goes on when you're town? Plus, the main person who suspected you both, Cron, is dead today.

OTOH, Faust is still alive on Day 3.

That's pretty much my reasoning.

Cron was townreading me strongly yesterday. Why would scum!me want him dead?

Your main point is nonsense.  Reggie remains my strongest townread. I've made that totally clear.  And you have to agree that the Haitian being town means we can't rely on flavour any more.

Can't disagree with you about faust.

[silverspawn]

Hey everyone.  I've been generally following along, going to reread now in light of the recent flips.

you have my deep condolences. I recently came to learn that replacing is hell. The best of luck.

[J Reggie]

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

[faust]

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

Nice. I think I trust this. Vote: Haddock

[faust]

L-2.

[faust]

Which isn't too great on the offchance that there still are three scum.

Unvote

[faust]

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

Does Haddock's claim in the neighborhood line up with your results?

[faust]

OTOH, Faust is still alive on Day 3.

For what it's worth, I was vanillaised last night, so maybe not the best target.

But I'm better now. So bring it on, scum!

[faust]

Oh.. did someone else join the neighborhood last night? Was said person part of the investigation?

[faust]

iguana, I wanted to ask: Why do you choose to claim now?

[Haddock]

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

vote: J Reggie
This is a total fabrication.  I don't know why scum would think this is a good idea, but apparently they think a 1 for 1 is worth it at this point.  Everyone note that please - if scum think a 1 for 1 is worth it at this point, that suggests that they're in a really strong position - maybe they think they can win tonight.

Jeez my reads have been absolutely awful this game.  First my strongest scumread flips town and now my strongest townread does this?  So much for that townread.  Thank god I didn't yet get round to claiming in the neighbourhood.  Jeepers.

Can everyone please look at this claim of Reggie's and note how convenient it is?  I mean, come on, he claims an investigatory role that happens to explain every NK at once?  I can just picture the scum QT - "Reggie, claim an incriminatory result on someone.  Maybe Haddock".
Then new-to-RMM-scum!Reggie takes that a bit too much to heart and goes way overboard.

[faust]

So, Haddock - did you target a player not in J Reggie's list, or how do you know he's not telling the truth?

[faust]

Really this response mostly seals it for me... town!Haddock would at least consider the possibility that J Reggie is town.

[Haddock]

So, Haddock - did you target a player not in J Reggie's list, or how do you know he's not telling the truth?

I do not have a targetting role. Nor does lyle. 
So yeah I considered redirection possibilities but that consideration did not take long. 

I mean seriously. Somehow EFHW targetted 4 people? Not seeing it.  This is all totally bogus.

[faust]

Wait - EFHW has claimed to have targeted me? But N1, according to Cron, EFHW did not target anyone, right? Hum dum. Not sure what it means. Of course there are even-night and X-shot possibilities. Did EFHW claim to have targeted me N2?

[Haddock]

I beg everyone to see sense.  Why would scum have one player make all of their kills? They'd spread them around to avoid this very situation.  This is all way too convenient from reggie.

[faust]

It's true that J Reggie had to come up with some sort of claim today after how the last day went down. And he was forced into the claim on D2 because he was scummy. Maybe this is not so easy.

[faust]

I beg everyone to see sense.  Why would scum have one player make all of their kills? They'd spread them around to avoid this very situation.  This is all way too convenient from reggie.

But that's bullshit... why should scum anticipate a situation like this? You give the night kill to the person you think is the least likely to be investigated that night. That may very well happen to be the same player twice in a row.

[Haddock]

Meh. I guess so. OK everyone just see sense and recognise that I'm town then!

One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned.  Much as it pains me to say this about the person I've been townreading all game, the lynch definitely has to be either reggie or me today.

Reggie please.

[faust]

Targeted Haddock reread!

There's lots of VLA D1, so that makes the reread easier, but also less insightful. He has a scumread on Jan early on. But he points out an early post by Jan, calling it a "rare towny moment". The way he reads Jan seems quite genuine so far. Votes Jan over RR before RR fullclaims.

On D2, the most notable thing is the clash with Cron. Again, doesn't look too bad. Notably, he tries to get a Cellovix or iguana lynch in at the end of D2. That is towny to me because well, he doesn't go for the two conf!town options.

[faust]

Just now did I realize that J Reggie supposedly saw both of tonight's kills.

That would be... a pretty big coincidence.

[silverspawn]

who exactly is in the neighborhood?

[Haddock]

Me lyle EFHW reggie

[faust]

Sorry for spamming the thread so much.

From play alone, I think J Reggie looks scummier than Haddock (didn't reread J Reggie, but I remember that he looked pretty darn scummy mid-D2). And it's true - the claim is convenient. Meh. I'm conflicted.

[faust]

J Reggie, why did you decide to claim before Haddock claimed in the neighborhood?

[iguanaiguana]

iguana, I wanted to ask: Why do you choose to claim now?

I haven't been able to keep up with high activity sections of the game that happen while I'm away or busy. I skimmed the thread and saw that yesterday I was at L-1 and nearly lynched due to inactivity, so I made a mental note to claim some information about my role as it was basically the only thing I could think of as evidence for the fact that I am town.

Also, my role is totally boring and lame so I had nothing to lose.

[J Reggie]

I mean, I almost didn't believe it when I saw it. Haddock is confirmed scum now. I mean, it's possible that EFHW made all those kills and targeted Faust, but I don't believe it, especially since cron (I think) said chairs didn't target anyone N1. It's too bad, since I thought haddock was town and maybe revealed some stuff in the neighborhood that I shouldn't have. But yeah, all I can say is all 3 NKs were targeted by members of my neighborhood, and with what I know, haddock is the only one that makes sense.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm cool with voting Haddock.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, why did you decide to claim before Haddock claimed in the neighborhood?

Because haddock was refusing to claim in my neighborhood. I didn't want to give him time for a fake claim.

[silverspawn]

Me lyle EFHW reggie

So

Haddock, teamlyle, EFHW, JReggie

are supposed to have targeted

RR (died N1)
cron (died N2)
Seprix (died N2)
faust

This means a group of 4 covered all three NK's.

That seems sufficiently improbable to warrant a vote for J Reggie regardless of reads, I think

[iguanaiguana]

Me lyle EFHW reggie

So

Haddock, teamlyle, EFHW, JReggie

are supposed to have targeted

RR (died N1)
cron (died N2)
Seprix (died N2)
faust

This means a group of 4 covered all three NK's.

That seems sufficiently improbable to warrant a vote for J Reggie regardless of reads, I think

That makes sense too.

[silverspawn]

^disregard my final line, I need to think more.

[iguanaiguana]

From my perspective, the scummiest thing that happened in the game is the wagon on me. Since it was a super easy mislynch because I haven't been able to play hard or well this game, that means scum were basically 100% on that wagon.

I'm going to go take another look at it, I have no clue who was on it.

[faust]

J Reggie, why did you decide to claim before Haddock claimed in the neighborhood?

Because haddock was refusing to claim in my neighborhood. I didn't want to give him time for a fake claim.

Can other members of the neighborhood confirm this narrative?

I don't see how "giving him time for a fake claim" would have been a problem. He still wouldn't have known who he should claim to have targeted. It is only now that he has all the information and could theoretically make up a fitting fakeclaim. Your explanation, in other words, makes no sense.

And of course it is kind of convenient that you waited for the two other neighborhood members to claim and claimed as soon as you knew who they supposedly targeted.

[iguanaiguana]

^disregard my final line, I need to think more.

That makes sense too!

[faust]

From my perspective, the scummiest thing that happened in the game is the wagon on me. Since it was a super easy mislynch because I haven't been able to play hard or well this game, that means scum were basically 100% on that wagon.

I'm going to go take another look at it, I have no clue who was on it.

The other lynch options were me and fontisian. Fontisian flipped town, and well I am town. Unless you think that I am scum, this makes no sense. And if you think that I am scum, well go ahead and vote for me.

[faust]

There might uh be something that I can do to clear this thing up, but it would mean that we have to keep J Reggie and Haddock alive until tomorrow.

[iguanaiguana]

No? Ok vote: iguana it is then.
L-1 again.

I have to sleep now.  Fingers crossed!

Vote: Haddock

[faust]

And right now I'm quite comfortable with a J Reggie lynch, so not sure it's worth it.

[faust]

No? Ok vote: iguana it is then.
L-1 again.

I have to sleep now.  Fingers crossed!

Vote: Haddock

Again, only makes sense if you think I am scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Why?

[iguanaiguana]

You could have been town on my wagon. But yeah, I think you might be scum. I super think so.

Or maybe I should say "No, Faust, he's the great leader, an IC" so scum will kill you and I don't have to do this WIFOM BS.

[silverspawn]

*sigh* I really need to stop this habit of posting the first thing that comes to mind.

the probability is bongus because J Reggie isn't claiming that they were randomly in there. If mafia is in that group then that explains the clustering of targets.

J Reggie's claim fits and is consistent with the other claims. Unfortunately, the other claims were made before J Reggie claimed his stuff, so we can't give him credit for that. I think it would have been better to claim your results first, and then ask the others to confirm them.

Meh, maybe we do need reads.

I don't find the idea that one scum does all the kills to be a stretch at all. Could just be ninja or something.

[Haddock]

J Reggie, why did you decide to claim before Haddock claimed in the neighborhood?

Because haddock was refusing to claim in my neighborhood. I didn't want to give him time for a fake claim.

Lyle and EFHW will confirm this is entirely false. I was refusing to claim here.  I was open to claiming in the QT subject to me being happy about EFHW.   I was admittedly stalling slightly because I needed to think whether I was happy claiming in the presence of EFHW.

No? Ok vote: iguana it is then.
L-1 again.

I have to sleep now.  Fingers crossed!

Vote: Haddock

Wait so I tried to make a Cellovix wagon happen instead and my giving up on that idea and going back to you makes me scummy?  I was trying to make a lynch happen, so sue me.

[faust]

I don't find the idea that one scum does all the kills to be a stretch at all. Could just be ninja or something.

But two kills in one night? Eh. It only works for me if you allow that EFHW is the SK or something, and then why didn't she target anyone N1?

And if Haddock was Ninja, then J Reggie would not have seen the kills. That's like the whole point of being Ninja.

[faust]

And remember we have one Tracker flipped already. This would imply two Trackers, which seems like overkill.

[faust]

Why?

In a choice between twon!me and town!you, scum might prefer me. And if not, it's still mostly a wash where scum doesn't really care and their main focus is to avoid incriminating wagon positions.

[Haddock]

And remember we have one Tracker flipped already. This would imply two Trackers, which seems like overkill.

More accurately, a tracker a one shot super tracker and a Rolecop.

[silverspawn]

Thought: a relevant factor is the plausibility of J Reggie's action as mafia. He would have team mates, so we can assume that he only does this if it at least looks like good play.

Best case for mafia!J Reggie is that we lynch Haddock and then him. So a trade has to be good for scum in order to have come from scum.

If this game is 10-3 or 9-3-1, I don't think it is sensible. I think it's only good play in a 9-4 setup. Unless J Reggie thought he would go down anyway, but I don't think he would. We considered him semi-flavor cleared.

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

Please verify if this makes sense before anyone claims.

PPE 4

[iguanaiguana]

Why?

In a choice between twon!me and town!you, scum might prefer me. And if not, it's still mostly a wash where scum doesn't really care and their main focus is to avoid incriminating wagon positions.

If you are town, then last night's 3-way wagon was on 3 town and scum super didn't care who got lynched. Splitting it up three ways is a great way for all of them to avoid much responsibility.

[J Reggie]

Pretty sure haddock and Faust are both scum. I just need to convince the rest of you. Haddock, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in the neighborhood. Yes, maybe I should have waited longer to claim, but I wanted to out the scum as asap as possible. I guess that just gives them more ammo to mislynch me. But I can guarantee that the results I claimed are 100% what I got, so it's up to all of you who aren't haddock or Faust.

[teamlyle]

Man, lots of stuff!

It's clear that either Haddock or J Reggie is scum. Haddock never did claim in the neighborhood, but no one asked him to (that is, in the neighborhood.) He later said that he wasn't happy about chairs/EFHW because she's completely null to him. He said that he didn't see himself claiming in the main thread, which I guess is scummy. Although at the same time, if he was scum and didn't want to claim, wouldn't he just pretend to be away while asking gkrieg for a false flavor claim? Haddock, what do you have to fear if scum knows your role?

[faust]

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

At first I thought "I don't want to force claims", but really, if some towny did kill Cron/Seprix, then claiming that would more or less confirm J Reggie as scum.

[silverspawn]

And remember we have one Tracker flipped already. This would imply two Trackers, which seems like overkill.

Agreed. But you don't even need the ninja. Is there any plausible reason why one player doing kills twice is worse than spreading them? If anything, one player means that guilty results don't stack, that's a good thing.

[faust]

Although at the same time, if he was scum and didn't want to claim, wouldn't he just pretend to be away while asking gkrieg for a false flavor claim?

Usually fake claims are provided at game start.

[faust]

And remember we have one Tracker flipped already. This would imply two Trackers, which seems like overkill.

Agreed. But you don't even need the ninja. Is there any plausible reason why one player doing kills twice is worse than spreading them? If anything, one player means that guilty results don't stack, that's a good thing.

Well there's blocking roles. But mostly I agree; I just don't buy into the narrative that scum has an extra kill.

[silverspawn]

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

At first I thought "I don't want to force claims", but really, if some towny did kill Cron/Seprix, then claiming that would more or less confirm J Reggie as scum.

Maybe.

we should really hear Haddock's claim.

And remember we have one Tracker flipped already. This would imply two Trackers, which seems like overkill.

Agreed. But you don't even need the ninja. Is there any plausible reason why one player doing kills twice is worse than spreading them? If anything, one player means that guilty results don't stack, that's a good thing.

Well there's blocking roles. But mostly I agree; I just don't buy into the narrative that scum has an extra kill.

no, I don't think that either.

[faust]

Pretty sure haddock and Faust are both scum. I just need to convince the rest of you. Haddock, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in the neighborhood. Yes, maybe I should have waited longer to claim, but I wanted to out the scum as asap as possible. I guess that just gives them more ammo to mislynch me. But I can guarantee that the results I claimed are 100% what I got, so it's up to all of you who aren't haddock or Faust.

Any reason for your read other than blatant OMGUS?

[iguanaiguana]

My vote is on Haddock. I'm pretty sure I picked the right one for the day. I am done for the day now and I don't think I need to participate too much more so I won't be.

[teamlyle]

By the way Haddock, I think we'd all appreciate it if you claimed. Thanks

[faust]

we should really hear Haddock's claim.

I really don't think that helps. Him claiming not to have a targeting roel is good enough for me. You seem awfully eager to out PRs.

[faust]

By the way Haddock, I think we'd all appreciate it if you claimed. Thanks

I would not.

[faust]

My vote is on Haddock. I'm pretty sure I picked the right one for the day. I am done for the day now and I don't think I need to participate too much more so I won't be.

Vote: iguana

[faust]

iguana has figured out how to play mafia; are it takes is 10 minutes of skimming the thread and then who's scum falls right into your lap.

[J Reggie]

Pretty sure haddock and Faust are both scum. I just need to convince the rest of you. Haddock, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in the neighborhood. Yes, maybe I should have waited longer to claim, but I wanted to out the scum as asap as possible. I guess that just gives them more ammo to mislynch me. But I can guarantee that the results I claimed are 100% what I got, so it's up to all of you who aren't haddock or Faust.

Any reason for your read other than blatant OMGUS?

Just reading through today's posts, it seems obvious. I already had a scum read on you, and now you pushing my lynch when I have incriminating evidence is telling.

By the way Haddock, I think we'd all appreciate it if you claimed. Thanks

I would not.

Obviously not, because he's your partner.

[faust]

Pretty sure haddock and Faust are both scum. I just need to convince the rest of you. Haddock, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in the neighborhood. Yes, maybe I should have waited longer to claim, but I wanted to out the scum as asap as possible. I guess that just gives them more ammo to mislynch me. But I can guarantee that the results I claimed are 100% what I got, so it's up to all of you who aren't haddock or Faust.

Any reason for your read other than blatant OMGUS?

Just reading through today's posts, it seems obvious. I already had a scum read on you, and now you pushing my lynch when I have incriminating evidence is telling.  No.

FTFY

[faust]

By the way Haddock, I think we'd all appreciate it if you claimed. Thanks

I would not.

Obviously not, because he's your partner.

Why would I not want my partner to unpack that juicy fakeclaim we've prepared from the start?

[silverspawn]

we should really hear Haddock's claim.

I really don't think that helps. Him claiming not to have a targeting roel is good enough for me. You seem awfully eager to out PRs.

uhm. okay, sure. don't claim.

So how do you - or anyone - explain the mafia! J Reggie narrative, if we can't explain the second NK, hence have a 9-3-1 setup?

[J Reggie]

Pretty sure haddock and Faust are both scum. I just need to convince the rest of you. Haddock, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in the neighborhood. Yes, maybe I should have waited longer to claim, but I wanted to out the scum as asap as possible. I guess that just gives them more ammo to mislynch me. But I can guarantee that the results I claimed are 100% what I got, so it's up to all of you who aren't haddock or Faust.

Any reason for your read other than blatant OMGUS?

Just reading through today's posts, it seems obvious. I already had a scum read on you, and now you pushing my lynch when I have incriminating evidence is telling.  No.

FTFY

Faust, how is this helpful to you at all as town or scum? I gave a reason, which I think is a good reason, and you just crossed it out and wrote no? I think that's more of a scummy thing to do than towny, but I just don't get it.

[Haddock]

I'm pretty sure it's better for town overall if I dont claim today.
If I'm mislynched you'll understand why. On the other hand I'd rather we just lynched reggie.

[faust]

we should really hear Haddock's claim.

I really don't think that helps. Him claiming not to have a targeting roel is good enough for me. You seem awfully eager to out PRs.

uhm. okay, sure. don't claim.

So how do you - or anyone - explain the mafia! J Reggie narrative, if we can't explain the second NK, hence have a 9-3-1 setup?

I think he would have gone down today if he hadn't claimed to have used his 1-shot.

[faust]

Faust, how is this helpful to you at all as town or scum? I gave a reason, which I think is a good reason, and you just crossed it out and wrote no? I think that's more of a scummy thing to do than towny, but I just don't get it.

Well, your reason was the definition of OMGUS. So you might as well have admitted to it. Like, I may be OMGUS's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it.

[J Reggie]

we should really hear Haddock's claim.

I really don't think that helps. Him claiming not to have a targeting roel is good enough for me. You seem awfully eager to out PRs.

uhm. okay, sure. don't claim.

So how do you - or anyone - explain the mafia! J Reggie narrative, if we can't explain the second NK, hence have a 9-3-1 setup?

I think he would have gone down today if he hadn't claimed to have used his 1-shot.

There's no way I would have made this bold of a claim as scum. It's really weird but it's what I got, and I have to make my assumptions off of it.

[J Reggie]

Faust, how is this helpful to you at all as town or scum? I gave a reason, which I think is a good reason, and you just crossed it out and wrote no? I think that's more of a scummy thing to do than towny, but I just don't get it.

Well, your reason was the definition of OMGUS. So you might as well have admitted to it. Like, I may be OMGUS's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it.

No, it's definitely not OMGUS. It's reasoning. Now it's OMGUS as well, but I still have genuine reason to believe you're scum. But we need to lynch haddock, who is definitely scum, today.

[silverspawn]

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

[faust]

There's no way I would have made this bold of a claim as scum. It's really weird but it's what I got, and I have to make my assumptions off of it.

So if I, as your scum partner, would have told you "This is what you have to do.", you would have told me "No, I'm too much of a chicken to do it!"?

[iguanaiguana]

iguana has figured out how to play mafia; are it takes is 10 minutes of skimming the thread and then who's scum falls right into your lap.

You and I both know that I don't have the first clue about how to be scum in mafia.

[silverspawn]

There's no way I would have made this bold of a claim as scum. It's really weird but it's what I got, and I have to make my assumptions off of it.

So if I, as your scum partner, would have told you "This is what you have to do.", you would have told me "No, I'm too much of a chicken to do it!"?

You, as a scum partner, wouldn't have told him to do it.

[faust]

Haddock is at L-1 I think. Please be careful with your votes.

[EFHW]

Wait - EFHW has claimed to have targeted me? But N1, according to Cron, EFHW did not target anyone, right? Hum dum. Not sure what it means. Of course there are even-night and X-shot possibilities. Did EFHW claim to have targeted me N2?

that's right. I mean, that's what chairs did.

[faust]

iguana has figured out how to play mafia; are it takes is 10 minutes of skimming the thread and then who's scum falls right into your lap.

You and I both know that I don't have the first clue about how to be scum in mafia.

Please don't presume to know anything about what I know and what I don't. And anyway I don't see what this has to do with anything.

[faust]

There's no way I would have made this bold of a claim as scum. It's really weird but it's what I got, and I have to make my assumptions off of it.

So if I, as your scum partner, would have told you "This is what you have to do.", you would have told me "No, I'm too much of a chicken to do it!"?

You, as a scum partner, wouldn't have told him to do it.

Absolutely I would have.

[J Reggie]

Wait - EFHW has claimed to have targeted me? But N1, according to Cron, EFHW did not target anyone, right? Hum dum. Not sure what it means. Of course there are even-night and X-shot possibilities. Did EFHW claim to have targeted me N2?

that's right. I mean, that's what chairs did.

Anything incriminating? I'm guessing not.

[faust]

It's like with ADK in that one game where shraeye neglected to counterclaim Cop. Well, not exactly like that.

[faust]

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

If you think Haddock is scum, then you can let me work some magic and lynch him tomorrow if you still think he's scum.

[J Reggie]

It's like with ADK in that one game where shraeye neglected to counterclaim Cop. Well, not exactly like that.

How?

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

If you think Haddock is scum, then you can let me work some magic and lynch him tomorrow if you still think he's scum.

No, let's not stand for this stalling any longer.

[faust]

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

If you think Haddock is scum, then you can let me work some magic and lynch him tomorrow if you still think he's scum.

No, let's not stand for this stalling any longer.

WTF? 1 post per minute is stalling to you?

[silverspawn]

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

If you think Haddock is scum, then you can let me work some magic and lynch him tomorrow if you still think he's scum.

Maybe. Maybe not. with 5-2-1, we're at LyLo~, which is Lynch correctly or be reliant on SK and Mafia shooting each other to win.

[faust]

It's like with ADK in that one game where shraeye neglected to counterclaim Cop. Well, not exactly like that.

How?

I instructed him to do a claim that secured our win.

[EFHW]

So, Haddock - did you target a player not in J Reggie's list, or how do you know he's not telling the truth?

I do not have a targetting role. Nor does lyle. 
So yeah I considered redirection possibilities but that consideration did not take long. 

I mean seriously. Somehow EFHW targetted 4 people? Not seeing it.  This is all totally bogus.

How do you know teamlyle does not have a targeting role?  I haven't finished my reread, so maybe I missed something.

[faust]

I think I solved it. vote: Haddock

If you think Haddock is scum, then you can let me work some magic and lynch him tomorrow if you still think he's scum.

Maybe. Maybe not. with 5-2-1, we're at LyLo~, which is Lynch correctly or be reliant on SK and Mafia shooting each other to win.

Well, with 5-2-1, there are still 1 SK and 1 mafia out there who are not named J Reggie or Haddock.

[faust]

How do you know teamlyle does not have a targeting role?  I haven't finished my reread, so maybe I missed something.

He claimed it.

[silverspawn]

haddock is scum, because

- J Reggie's claim didn't come off as a fake claim. He said 'I have results, gtg do them later, you guys claim' and then later he claimed. that requires extra thought of mafia how to present it.

- the narrative for mafia!J Reggie is shaky

- why claim that ALL NK targets are in your group, instead of just some?

- being secure against counterclaims adds complexity to the narrative

- haddock has made some pretty bad posts today and has all around the scummier near-lynch play

on the other hand

- I've been scumreading J Reggie before

not enough.

[faust]

teamlyle, I still want you to clarify how you, as a VT with no ability, had information on Seprix's alignment.

[faust]

Your "on the other hand" doesn't even mention that two kills from the same player are highly unlikely? Is that some kind of joke?

[J Reggie]

teamlyle, I still want you to clarify how you, as a VT with no ability, had information on Seprix's alignment.

He said he was in a neighborhood with Seprix.

[EFHW]

I have been on the fence about Haddock all game.  His response to j reggie's accusation reads scummy to me, because he doesn't fully look at all the possibilities and because he is so mad. 

There is no reason to assume he did all the nk's. It certainly doesn't make sense that mafia would get 2 nk's last night, so at least one of cron/Seprix would have to be non-nk targets.  Roleblocking in particular comes to mind.  Wasn't cron a tracker?  Makes him a good vig target and a good roleblocking or redirection target.

I would support a Haddock lynch here.

Looking at the reverse possibility, a compulsory scum neighborizer is a really cool role from a mod standpoint. JReggie has stated in the neighborhood that his role is compulsory.

[EFHW]

EBWOP: SK, not vig. Big difference!

[EFHW]

In the Neighborhood, teamlyle said he was a Vanilla Sidekick and then seemed to say he didn't know what that was.  The wiki gives a couple different meanings to sidekick, but both involve targeting.  Not sure how they go with Vanilla or what gkrieg intended by the name, but perhaps teamlyle should clarify.  Sidekick is also a superhero term, like Batman and his sidekick Robin, so maybe it's just flavor.

[faust]

The other flavor names so far haven't been very close to offcial nomenclature, so it might be just flavor. It's kinda specific though.

[EFHW]

How do you know teamlyle does not have a targeting role?  I haven't finished my reread, so maybe I missed something.

He claimed it.

It's still strange that Haddock would accept that claim as fact.

[faust]

How do you know teamlyle does not have a targeting role?  I haven't finished my reread, so maybe I missed something.

He claimed it.

It's still strange that Haddock would accept that claim as fact.

Well there's some flavor stuff going on and Seprix said he has confirmation that teamlyle is town.

[faust]

EFHW: How open are you to lynching someone who isn't J Reggie or Haddock?

[EFHW]

How do you know teamlyle does not have a targeting role?  I haven't finished my reread, so maybe I missed something.

He claimed it.

It's still strange that Haddock would accept that claim as fact.

Well there's some flavor stuff going on and Seprix said he has confirmation that teamlyle is town.

I don't have the impression that teamlyle has been considered an IC.

[EFHW]

EFHW: How open are you to lynching someone who isn't J Reggie or Haddock?

Who do you have in mind? 

Haddock set up the "it's him or me today" thing.  I don't think that's necessarily so.

[J Reggie]

EFHW: How open are you to lynching someone who isn't J Reggie or Haddock?

Who do you have in mind? 

Haddock set up the "it's him or me today" thing.  I don't think that's necessarily so.

I mean, it's possible that you or teamlyle targeted those people. If it was you you would know and would probably be getting to get a mislynch through. I strongly doubt it's teamlyle.

[faust]

EFHW: How open are you to lynching someone who isn't J Reggie or Haddock?

Who do you have in mind? 

Haddock set up the "it's him or me today" thing.  I don't think that's necessarily so.

Not sure. Just let the thing sort itself out. I think silver and iguana are worth investigating. My strongest scumread is Cellovix.

[faust]

I think I'm voting iguana? Yeah, that is mostly me being pissed. But he did somehow not get lynched that last day, and we lynch town instead.

But Vote: Cellovix is still something I'm more comfortable with.

[EFHW]

Oh, you have "magic" you want to do.  What makes that better than lynching him to find out if he's scum?

PPE: Cellovix is a strong townread for me!  She (?) has been scumhunting more than anyone, though I guess not around much recently.  Iguana looks totally scummy, but he also said he's not taking the game seriously, so is he daring enough to do that so blatantly as scum? I could go either way on silver.

[EFHW]

faust, you seem very reluctant to lynch Haddock.

[silverspawn]

Lynching outside of Haddock and J Reggie seems pretty unintelligent to me.

[J Reggie]

I think I'm voting iguana? Yeah, that is mostly me being pissed. But he did somehow not get lynched that last day, and we lynch town instead.

But Vote: Cellovix is still something I'm more comfortable with.

This makes sense to me. You don't want to be on my wagon since I will be IC if haddock flips scum or if I flip town. And you don't want to bus. That's why you're pushing a lynch that's not me or haddock. I strongly doubt the existence of this magic.

[faust]

Oh, you have "magic" you want to do.  What makes that better than lynching him to find out if he's scum?

PPE: Cellovix is a strong townread for me!  She (?) has been scumhunting more than anyone, though I guess not around much recently.  Iguana looks totally scummy, but he also said he's not taking the game seriously, so is he daring enough to do that so blatantly as scum? I could go either way on silver.

Cannot say. Sorry. It will be clear tomorrow, if it works.

The townread on Cellovix is interesting. I admit that I may have been lead by confirmation bias in that case. But he was scummy with his Jan interactions IIRC.

[faust]

faust, you seem very reluctant to lynch Haddock.

Yes. It's just, if Haddock is scum, then what I can do is much better than lynching one of the two now.

[faust]

I think I'm voting iguana? Yeah, that is mostly me being pissed. But he did somehow not get lynched that last day, and we lynch town instead.

But Vote: Cellovix is still something I'm more comfortable with.

This makes sense to me. You don't want to be on my wagon since I will be IC if haddock flips scum or if I flip town. And you don't want to bus. That's why you're pushing a lynch that's not me or haddock. I strongly doubt the existence of this magic.

Right. Because outing myself and Haddock as scum is such a clever move, especially if there's a Serial Killer prancing about.

[EFHW]

faust, you seem very reluctant to lynch Haddock.

Yes. It's just, if Haddock is scum, then what I can do is much better than lynching one of the two now.

Even if you are nk'd, roleblocked or redirected?

[faust]

Lynching outside of Haddock and J Reggie seems pretty unintelligent to me.

But why? Like, this is RMM. Even if you don't believe me, it's pretty likely that someone can do something that will give us more to work with tomorrow.

[faust]

faust, you seem very reluctant to lynch Haddock.

Yes. It's just, if Haddock is scum, then what I can do is much better than lynching one of the two now.

Even if you are nk'd, roleblocked or redirected?

There are scenarios where it might not work. But if it does not work, then you'll know. And frankly it might be best if scum just kills me off and I don't have to do the "How is it that faust is still alive?" dance. How is it that silver is still alive? Noone ever seems to ask that.

[silverspawn]

Lynching outside of Haddock and J Reggie seems pretty unintelligent to me.

But why? Like, this is RMM. Even if you don't believe me, it's pretty likely that someone can do something that will give us more to work with tomorrow.

the evidence seems too clear for a delay to be worth it. like, why would you even survive the night?

[faust]

Lynching outside of Haddock and J Reggie seems pretty unintelligent to me.

But why? Like, this is RMM. Even if you don't believe me, it's pretty likely that someone can do something that will give us more to work with tomorrow.

the evidence seems too clear for a delay to be worth it. like, why would you even survive the night?

Plusses if I don't. Saves you from a stupid mislynch.

[silverspawn]

also your information isn't even valuable, because, unless we hit another scum now, we're at super LyLo tomorrow, so we can't rely on your word anyway. So even if you are town, can do magic, and don't die, still meh.

[EFHW]

I disagree.  Scum could interfere with you to try to frame town!Haddock.  They will certainly interfere to protect scum!Haddock, so now that you have said you have magic, you are not likely to get to use it on Haddock.  He's the best lynch candidate we have, and lynching someone else who is a weaker case doesn't seem good.

[EFHW]

Disagree with faust, agree with silver.

[faust]

also your information isn't even valuable, because, unless we hit another scum now, we're at super LyLo tomorrow, so we can't rely on your word anyway. So even if you are town, can do magic, and don't die, still meh.

Dude, I would not advocate this thing if I didn't think it's a good thing, and you can be sure I considered stuff.

[faust]

You may use the above as response to EFHW as well.

[faust]

Maybe replace the "Dude" by something more suitable.

[EFHW]

Teamlyle - Can you clarify the sidekick aspect of your role?

[EFHW]

vote count please!

[EFHW]

Oh, hey, forum is back up.

My vote is still on Chairs in spirit, but I'm going to take a different route for now and

Vote: Jan.

She has too much focus on flavor and trying to appear helpful, not enough content and trying to find scum.  Talking about the flavor source for the game is fine in RVS, but we've long since left it behind, and it doesn't sit right with me.  There was also the thing where she soft attacked RoadRunner for being defensive of vote(s) on him, but left her vote on her RVS target.

So, talk to me, Jan, oh lover of flavor.  What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

This case on Jan is what solidified my townread on Cellovix. I've made stronger cases against scum teammates, but I'm thinking this isn't Jan's partner.

[Haddock]

Going to bed now.  Try not to lynch me before I wake up.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 3.1


J Reggie (2): Cellovix, Haddock
Cellovix (1): faust
Haddock (3): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, silverspawn

Not Voting (2): teamlyle, EFHW

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends Tuesday August 9, 12PM

[EFHW]

RR could have used Jan's ability to protect himself, but he died anyway, so I think scum must have a roleblocker.

[faust]

Hm.

J Reggie, do you get multiple names in your list of targets?

[faust]

I mean, is it possible for the same name to show up more than once?

[iguanaiguana]

faust, you seem very reluctant to lynch Haddock.

Yes. It's just, if Haddock is scum, then what I can do is much better than lynching one of the two now.

Even if you are nk'd, roleblocked or redirected?

There are scenarios where it might not work. But if it does not work, then you'll know. And frankly it might be best if scum just kills me off and I don't have to do the "How is it that faust is still alive?" dance. How is it that silver is still alive? Noone ever seems to ask that.

silver's always alive because he's always scum.

[teamlyle]

Teamlyle - Can you clarify the sidekick aspect of your role?

It says I have no ability. Under my "abilities" section it says "None" and goes on to say that I feel like there should be something special about me but there isn't. I haven't targeted anyone.

(By the way, sorry if I broke the rules by quoting that)

[Cellovix]

V/LA a couple days, family emergency.

[teamlyle]

V/LA a couple days, family emergency.

I hope everything will turn out alright! 

[faust]

I hope everything will turn out alright! 

[faust]

Something tells me that iguana is scum. Vote: iguana

[silverspawn]

this is getting silly.

[J Reggie]

Faust is desperate.

[silverspawn]

yea.

[faust]

Faust is desperate.

Do you want to answer my question?

[faust]

this is getting silly.

Well... you know, even if we end up lynching Haddock, don't you think that there's value in discussing other reads before this day is over? If I remember correctly, this was your exact reasoning on Day 1.

[J Reggie]

Faust is desperate.

Do you want to answer my question?

Oh sorry, I had forgotten. I'll ask in my cutie.

[silverspawn]

discussing reads =/= 'let's lynch iguana'

[faust]

discussing reads =/= 'let's lynch iguana'

Well sorry. He's scum because he does not engage in the game. Also, the end of the last day is telling.

[silverspawn]

okay, let me see.

[J Reggie]

I mean, is it possible for the same name to show up more than once?

It is not.

[silverspawn]

You mean that he wasn't around? His last post is this:

It honestly kinda seems like J Reggie's "neighborhood" is just "The Mafia."

That would be so stupid, but they are just playing like it is true.

Which is towny.

[iguanaiguana]

I pushed the Jan lynch hard, not even knowing whether it was going to work out or blow up in my face. I egged Roadrunner on toward the end of the day to stick to his commitment and lynch Jan. I've offered good analysis whenever I've had time, and when I haven't I've been prompt about letting people know that I can't give any feedback.

I have not been scummy. Read my periods of activity and look for scum tells. They are not there.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 3.2


J Reggie (2): Cellovix, Haddock
iguanaiguana (1): faust
Haddock (3): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, silverspawn

Not Voting (2): teamlyle, EFHW

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends Tuesday August 9, 12PM

[Haddock]

J Reggie (1): Cellovix, Haddock

is this an error?

[gkrieg13]

J Reggie (1): Cellovix, Haddock

is this an error?

What error?  What are you talking about...

Yes, I fixed it

[faust]

You mean that he wasn't around? His last post is this:

It honestly kinda seems like J Reggie's "neighborhood" is just "The Mafia."

That would be so stupid, but they are just playing like it is true.

Which is towny.

I mean that he didn't get lynched.

[faust]

It doesn't look good for Haddock that he disappeared today. He said we shouldn't lynch him while he sleeps, but so far he didn't give us any reason why we shouldn't have. Or maybe he's still asleep... but I doubt it.

[faust]

Thinking things over, now that I am less convinced that Haddock is town, we may want a claim after all.

[Haddock]

It doesn't look good for Haddock that he disappeared today. He said we shouldn't lynch him while he sleeps, but so far he didn't give us any reason why we shouldn't have. Or maybe he's still asleep... but I doubt it.

Nothing much going on and Ive been at work all day

What do you want me to say? You shouldnt lynch me, I'm town.  I can provide a full blown defense of myself if that would help, but I thought my play pretty much spoke for itself.  The Jan lynch which I contributed a lot to, as much as anything else.

There are reasons for me to want not to miss twilight, which will become clear.  That's why I want lynches to happen when I'm awake.

[Haddock]

Thinking things over, now that I am less convinced that Haddock is town, we may want a claim after all.

I'm not claiming.  You're really desperate aren't you? If reggie weren't confscum I'd be voting faust right now.

Faust was really towny for ages. My guess is he's an SK, since noone has claimed responsibility for the extra kill yesterday. His play makes a ton of sense for an SK when you think about it.

[faust]

You're really desperate aren't you?

That's a weird thing to say about me, considering I have been the only person defending you throughout the day.

[Haddock]

You're really desperate aren't you?

That's a weird thing to say about me, considering I have been the only person defending you throughout the day.

Hey, I'm grateful for it. But you do seem to be struggling to make anything stick. Fair to say? 
That's not really surprising when you're the only one trying to lynch outside of me/reggie.

I stand by what I said also. I don't think you make sense as reggie's partner, but you could very well be an SK. And that would explain how your outlook today is very different to everyone else's.

[faust]

Hey, I'm grateful for it. But you do seem to be struggling to make anything stick. Fair to say? 
That's not really surprising when you're the only one trying to lynch outside of me/reggie.

I stand by what I said also. I don't think you make sense as reggie's partner, but you could very well be an SK. And that would explain how your outlook today is very different to everyone else's.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. How would SK!me prefer to not get two people lynched in a row who both aren't me?

[EFHW]

Oh, hey, forum is back up.

My vote is still on Chairs in spirit, but I'm going to take a different route for now and

Vote: Jan.

She has too much focus on flavor and trying to appear helpful, not enough content and trying to find scum.  Talking about the flavor source for the game is fine in RVS, but we've long since left it behind, and it doesn't sit right with me.  There was also the thing where she soft attacked RoadRunner for being defensive of vote(s) on him, but left her vote on her RVS target.

So, talk to me, Jan, oh lover of flavor.  What are three non-flavor related things that you've seen that you think come from a scum mindset?  What are three non-flavor related things you think come from a town mindset?

If you could kill two people right now, who would they be? (And vote one of those two, if you could!)

This case on Jan is what solidified my townread on Cellovix. I've made stronger cases against scum teammates, but I'm thinking this isn't Jan's partner.

Of course, an SK will scumhunt like the best of them, so can't rule that out.

[EFHW]

RR could have used Jan's ability to protect himself, but he died anyway, so I think scum must have a roleblocker.

Whoops, his power didn't work on factional abilities, like the nk.

If Sylar killed RR, would he have Jan's power now, if RR chose to use it? 

I'm trying to figure out if J Reggie could have been redirected last night, but it's super complicated.  He took two actions with 3 targets, targeting me twice (once to neighborize, once to track), Haddock and teamlyle each once.  Clearly both actions were not redirected b/c chairs didn't target Seprix, RR and cron.  If scum could redirect one action, maybe they tried to get into the neighborhood by redirecting to one of themselves, and got tracked instead.

[EFHW]

Convoluted theories aside, I still think we should lynch Haddock today.

[EFHW]

vote: Haddock  That's L-1.

[teamlyle]

vote: Haddock  That's L-1.

I think that haddock is probably scum, but should I?

[Haddock]

vote: Haddock  That's L-1.

I think that haddock is probably scum, but should I?

You shouldn't.

Please people, I know it's hard to ignore Reggie's cwazy claim, and try to look at the game without that. Ever since I got back from vla I've been contributing as well as I possibly can and being generally helpful. It sucks that my reads have been so poor, but I'm doing my utmost here.

Noone has presented a case beyond Reggie's claim, so it comes down to this: who is townier, me or reggie?  I'd been townreading reggie, so I get that it's a tough decision - but where did all the people who were scumreading reggie go when he pulled out this claim? It's not like it clears him - quite the opposite!

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 3.3


J Reggie (2): Cellovix, Haddock
iguanaiguana (1): faust
Haddock (4): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, silverspawn, EFHW {L-1}

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends Tuesday August 9, 12PM

[silverspawn]

vote: Haddock  That's L-1.

I think that haddock is probably scum, but should I?

You shouldn't.

Please people, I know it's hard to ignore Reggie's cwazy claim, and try to look at the game without that. Ever since I got back from vla I've been contributing as well as I possibly can and being generally helpful. It sucks that my reads have been so poor, but I'm doing my utmost here.

Noone has presented a case beyond Reggie's claim, so it comes down to this: who is townier, me or reggie?  I'd been townreading reggie, so I get that it's a tough decision - but where did all the people who were scumreading reggie go when he pulled out this claim? It's not like it clears him - quite the opposite!

I think there are a lot of reasons why you are more likely scum than him. I posted them before.

[teamlyle]

Last time the forum went down, Haddock asked if J Reggie needed any backup because J Reggie got a couple of votes. (This discussion happened in the neighborhood.) If Haddock was scum then he probably wouldn't have asked.

Vote: J Reggie

[silverspawn]

Last time the forum went down, Haddock asked if J Reggie needed any backup because J Reggie got a couple of votes. (This discussion happened in the neighborhood.) If Haddock was scum then he probably wouldn't have asked.

Vote: J Reggie

that seems like a mild scum tell if anything. why would you give town cred for that?

[faust]

I'm trying to figure out if J Reggie could have been redirected last night, but it's super complicated.  He took two actions with 3 targets, targeting me twice (once to neighborize, once to track), Haddock and teamlyle each once.  Clearly both actions were not redirected b/c chairs didn't target Seprix, RR and cron.  If scum could redirect one action, maybe they tried to get into the neighborhood by redirecting to one of themselves, and got tracked instead.

Eh, I don't think J Reggie's power is a targeting action. But he can clarify. Anyway it's pretty unlikely that sucm has two redirectors, no?

[faust]

Well at this point, we won't get another lynch than Haddock unless someone on that wagon unvotes. I think noone is particularly likely to. Haddock won't claim, so uh I think we might as well end the day here?

I'll give Haddock a day or so to convince people I suppose. I have a feeling that it will be hard to talk about other reads as long as this situation is still unresolved.

[teamlyle]

Last time the forum went down, Haddock asked if J Reggie needed any backup because J Reggie got a couple of votes. (This discussion happened in the neighborhood.) If Haddock was scum then he probably wouldn't have asked.

Vote: J Reggie

that seems like a mild scum tell if anything. why would you give town cred for that?

Well if Haddock was scum (and J Reggie was town) then why would Haddock get in the way of a mislynch when he could avoid any blame for it whatsoever?

[silverspawn]

Last time the forum went down, Haddock asked if J Reggie needed any backup because J Reggie got a couple of votes. (This discussion happened in the neighborhood.) If Haddock was scum then he probably wouldn't have asked.

Vote: J Reggie

that seems like a mild scum tell if anything. why would you give town cred for that?

Well if Haddock was scum (and J Reggie was town) then why would Haddock get in the way of a mislynch when he could avoid any blame for it whatsoever?

It's a grab for towncred. You wanna seem like a nice guy. Scum does that all the time.

[EFHW]

I'm trying to figure out if J Reggie could have been redirected last night, but it's super complicated.  He took two actions with 3 targets, targeting me twice (once to neighborize, once to track), Haddock and teamlyle each once.  Clearly both actions were not redirected b/c chairs didn't target Seprix, RR and cron.  If scum could redirect one action, maybe they tried to get into the neighborhood by redirecting to one of themselves, and got tracked instead.

Eh, I don't think J Reggie's power is a targeting action. But he can clarify. Anyway it's pretty unlikely that sucm has two redirectors, no?

Sylar would have gotten it back from RR. Definitely both targeting actions, though, imo

[EFHW]

If Haddock flips town we can look at my crazy theory and others. But I don't think he will flip town.

[EFHW]

Well at this point, we won't get another lynch than Haddock unless someone on that wagon unvotes. I think noone is particularly likely to. Haddock won't claim, so uh I think we might as well end the day here?

I'll give Haddock a day or so to convince people I suppose. I have a feeling that it will be hard to talk about other reads as long as this situation is still unresolved.

This is a lot like the RR / Jan situation.

[EFHW]

Except that Jan was crude and Haddock is civilized!

[EFHW]

vote: Haddock  That's L-1.

I think that haddock is probably scum, but should I?

It looks like it will be up to you. Cellovix is vla and faust wants to try his magic.

[teamlyle]

Last time the forum went down, Haddock asked if J Reggie needed any backup because J Reggie got a couple of votes. (This discussion happened in the neighborhood.) If Haddock was scum then he probably wouldn't have asked.

Vote: J Reggie

that seems like a mild scum tell if anything. why would you give town cred for that?

Well if Haddock was scum (and J Reggie was town) then why would Haddock get in the way of a mislynch when he could avoid any blame for it whatsoever?

It's a grab for towncred. You wanna seem like a nice guy. Scum does that all the time.

You have a point. unvote

It could actually be that Haddock is town and was doing it genuinely though, so I won't vote for Haddock right now.

[silverspawn]

I mean.

If he was town then he was town and did it genuinely.

Could he be town? sure.

But does it make him town? I don't think so.

[faust]

Haddock? You there? Want to make a last stand?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 3.4


J Reggie (2): Cellovix, Haddock
iguanaiguana (1): faust
Haddock (4): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, silverspawn, EFHW {L-1}

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends Tuesday August 9, 12PM

[teamlyle]

I guess I'll just vote for Haddock soon if he doesn't come up with a better argument

[faust]

Well, Haddock has been active on the forums since I posted. I guess he doesn't want to defend himself.

Vote: Haddock

[J Reggie]

I guess that's the hammer. I'd I die in the night, lynch Faust.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 3.final


J Reggie (2): Cellovix, Haddock
Haddock (5): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, silverspawn, EFHW, faust

Not Voting (1): teamlyle

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[gkrieg13]

As Nathan was chasing the people who got away with the murder of his friends, he came into a room with many people present.  He looked around, and all of them looked familiar.  They were all evos, and they were discussing who was the murderer. 

Many of them came out and accused each other.  Nathan was the only one with a gun, so he made his best bet and shot.

Haddock has been lynched.

N3 begins now.  Night action submission deadline is tomorrow, August 3, 1 PM.  Night ends August 4, 1 PM.

THREAD LOCKED

[gkrieg13]

night action submission deadline in thirty minutes

[gkrieg13]

Starting this back up in fifteen minutes, which will be an hour earlier than planned.  I won't be around at 1 PM.

[gkrieg13]

The room fell silent after the shot.  Haddock went down, and looked as though he were dead.  Then, as Nathan went to inspect his body for any evidence that linked him to the recent kidnappings, Haddock began to breathe again!  He then stood up!

Nathan was astonished.  Before he could do anything, or ask any questions, another shot was heard. 

Nathan whipped around to see who fired the shot.  He saw one man on the ground, and the others huddled around him.  As he turned to look at the door, he saw a figure just passing through it.  Nathan knew that he would have to act fast, or else the villain would get away again.

As he ran to chase after the person, someone was crying.  They yelled, "Why did it have to be silverspawn!  Why couldn't they have shot me instead!"

Silverspawn has been killed in the night.  He was Nikki/Jessica, The Psychotic Dual-Personality

Day 4 begins now!

THREAD UNLOCKED!

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (7): teamlyle, Cellovix, Haddock, faust, iguanaiguana, J Reggie, EFHW

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends Sunday August 14, 12 PM

[J Reggie]

Uh, OK. Haddock, please explain.

[faust]

I am relatively sure that Haddock is town.

Vote: J Reggie

[J Reggie]

I am relatively sure that Haddock is town.

Vote: J Reggie

Are we really going to go through this again? vote: Faust.

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

[faust]

And frankly it might be best if scum just kills me off and I don't have to do the "How is it that faust is still alive?" dance. How is it that silver is still alive? Noone ever seems to ask that.

Silverspawn has been killed in the night.

Well played, scum.

[faust]

I am relatively sure that Haddock is town.

Vote: J Reggie

Are we really going to go through this again? vote: Faust.

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

So you want to vote for me over confirmed scum?

[faust]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

[faust]

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

This guy wishes to bully me by inviting every living player but me to his cozy neighborhood.

At this point though, what's the point of having a neighborhood? And what's the point of making it larger? You're only ever more likely to invite scum in, and as soon as scum is in there, it's worthless.

[J Reggie]

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

This guy wishes to bully me by inviting every living player but me to his cozy neighborhood.

At this point though, what's the point of having a neighborhood? And what's the point of making it larger? You're only ever more likely to invite scum in, and as soon as scum is in there, it's worthless.

Well, I'm required to add more people. The least I can do is find out if I was redirected.

[J Reggie]

I am relatively sure that Haddock is town.

Vote: J Reggie

Are we really going to go through this again? vote: Faust.

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

So you want to vote for me over confirmed scum?

Lynching haddock didn't work the first time, so why should I believe it'll work now? If anyone has a NK power, please do shoot haddock.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

[faust]

Lynching haddock didn't work the first time, so why should I believe it'll work now? If anyone has a NK power, please do shoot haddock.

Because a scum with a more than 1-shot lynchproof is hilariously overpowered?

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

Is there something specific you're referring to?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

[faust]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

You mean, until I claim and you can shape your response accordingly? Not gonna happen.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

Is there something specific you're referring to?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

Is there something specific you're referring to?

PPE ate my response 

[faust]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

Is there something specific you're referring to?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

Is there something specific you're referring to?

PPE ate my response 

Why don't you just say what happened?

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

In a way, yes. I'll wait to talk about it though.

You mean, until I claim and you can shape your response accordingly? Not gonna happen.

Ok, my "interesting thing" was entirely on my end and affects my results only. Nothing you claim is going to change that.

[faust]

Then what are you waiting for?

[J Reggie]

Then what are you waiting for?

Ok fine. I missed the action deadline by a few minutes and my result was randomized. I guess my line of thinking was that if scum got sent an invite, they could read through the neighborhood but not post, knowing that I'd have no idea who they were. But since I'm pretty sure haddock is scum it doesn't really make a difference.

[J Reggie]

Lynching haddock didn't work the first time, so why should I believe it'll work now? If anyone has a NK power, please do shoot haddock.

Because a scum with a more than 1-shot lynchproof is hilariously overpowered?

Sounds like you want town to try and lynch haddock again.

[faust]

In the meantime, here's a little case for Haddock being town, independently of whatever I know:

- the case for him being scum basically rested on the assumption that he was a Roleblocker or something similar and targeted both Seprix and Cron N2 - one with the nightkill, one with something else. But now we know he's lynchproof (or something to that extent). It's unlikely for him to have two powers that are unconnected like that.
- from what little I have learned about flavor over the course of the game, I know that there is a prominent figure on the side of good that doesn't die easily: Claire Bennet.
- from the way Haddock played the last day, I supposed he was bulletproof or something like that. It's possible that he had a simple 1-shot Deathproof. His play last day makes a lot of sense with that assumption.

PPE: 2

[faust]

Lynching haddock didn't work the first time, so why should I believe it'll work now? If anyone has a NK power, please do shoot haddock.

Because a scum with a more than 1-shot lynchproof is hilariously overpowered?

Sounds like you want town to try and lynch haddock again.

No, I want town to try and lynch you.

[faust]

What an amazing plottwist it would be if Haddock and you are both town and EFHW/teamlyle is the scumteam.

[EFHW]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

What were you thinking would have happened to him?

[faust]

J Reggie, did anything interesting happen to you last night?

What were you thinking would have happened to him?

I am open to claiming, but if we can get J Reggie lynched without that, I would prefer it.

[EFHW]

Everyone look for an invite. Let me know in the neighborhood if you got it.

This guy wishes to bully me by inviting every living player but me to his cozy neighborhood.

At this point though, what's the point of having a neighborhood? And what's the point of making it larger? You're only ever more likely to invite scum in, and as soon as scum is in there, it's worthless.

Bully? By not inviting? Seems extreme.

[EFHW]

We should try to lynch Haddock again.  Deathproofs are almost always scum, and his play has been scummy, and there is no case against J Reggie except that Haddock didn't die.  That's not a case at all.

[EFHW]

Then what are you waiting for?

Ok fine. I missed the action deadline by a few minutes and my result was randomized. I guess my line of thinking was that if scum got sent an invite, they could read through the neighborhood but not post, knowing that I'd have no idea who they were. But since I'm pretty sure haddock is scum it doesn't really make a difference.

They wouldn't have known they were chosen randomly.

[EFHW]

vote: Haddock

[faust]

We should try to lynch Haddock again.  Deathproofs are almost always scum, and his play has been scummy, and there is no case against J Reggie except that Haddock didn't die.  That's not a case at all.

What do you have to say about my case that Haddock is town?

[faust]

Oh, and there certainly is a case against J Reggie. Saying there isn't is just ignorant. There's a reason he almost got ynched earlier in the game.

[EFHW]

We should try to lynch Haddock again.  Deathproofs are almost always scum, and his play has been scummy, and there is no case against J Reggie except that Haddock didn't die.  That's not a case at all.

What do you have to say about my case that Haddock is town?

1. We don't know what his other power was, so how do we know it isn't connected somehow with the lynchproof? Too many unknowns here to put a lot of weight on this argument.
2 and 3. I think Haddock would have claimed if he was Claire, or any town for that matter. Allowing us to lynch him knowing it wouldn't work was scummy, not towny.

Ok, I'm ignorant, what is scummy about J Reggie?

[faust]

1. There's a thing called Occam's Razor. You just have to make too many assumptions. Lynchproof is already pretty strong; why would he have another role?
2./3. Well I disagree. I think scum would much more happily shout "don't lynch me, I'm lynchproof" because they have nothing to lose. Town has more trouble if their power would also protect them from a nightkill.

I you look for scummy J Reggie stuff, just reread his D1 and in particular his treatment of the Jan wagon. If that doesn't suffice, you can just look at this:

I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.

I rest my case.

[EFHW]

1. There's a thing called Occam's Razor. You just have to make too many assumptions. Lynchproof is already pretty strong; why would he have another role?
2./3. Well I disagree. I think scum would much more happily shout "don't lynch me, I'm lynchproof" because they have nothing to lose. Town has more trouble if their power would also protect them from a nightkill.

I you look for scummy J Reggie stuff, just reread his D1 and in particular his treatment of the Jan wagon. If that doesn't suffice, you can just look at this:

I have been playing kind of scummy so as to not get NK'd.

I rest my case.

A town player with a deathproof should definitely claim lynchproof.  This allows town to lynch someone else (if they believe it), and also draws the nk. 

Trying to play scummy to not get nk'd is a total newbie player thing to do.  It's a bad idea, but I don't get a scumread from that post.  Actually, I think yuma used to do that on a regular basis, so it's not even that much of a newbie thing.

Assuming Haddock wouldn't have another role is still an assumption. 

I'll look at day 1.

[EFHW]

First off, you had a strong town read on J Reggie Day 1:

unvote: Faust

I'm starting to like and agree with your content. Can you still explain the j Reggie town read though. He's your top town why?

Such a carefree entrance. Bolding "I'm town" in his first post. Giving a basically full-game pass to teamlyle. Blatant OMGUS after Seprix votes for him. These are all things that can be perceived as scummy, and doing all of this as scum takes balls. I think it's more likely town on a rampage.

[faust]

First off, you had a strong town read on J Reggie Day 1:

unvote: Faust

I'm starting to like and agree with your content. Can you still explain the j Reggie town read though. He's your top town why?

Such a carefree entrance. Bolding "I'm town" in his first post. Giving a basically full-game pass to teamlyle. Blatant OMGUS after Seprix votes for him. These are all things that can be perceived as scummy, and doing all of this as scum takes balls. I think it's more likely town on a rampage.

Yes. Before we had a scum flip. What does this matter?

[iguanaiguana]

And frankly it might be best if scum just kills me off and I don't have to do the "How is it that faust is still alive?" dance. How is it that silver is still alive? Noone ever seems to ask that.

Silverspawn has been killed in the night.

Well played, scum.

Vote: Faust

[iguanaiguana]

Step 1, lynch Faust. Step 2, find some way to kill Haddock.

Step 3 is hopefully just win the game.

[faust]

*sigh*

[iguanaiguana]

If it makes you feel better, I'm not lynching you for being alive, but for your obvious scum play.

[iguanaiguana]

Plus, I've never once seen you mention Occam's razor as town. Twice as scum.

[EFHW]

I reread J Reggie's reaction to RR's Jan claim.  It is true that he focuses first on RR and then on Seprix, and does not vote for Jan.  It reads as spontaneous to me, though, and Haddock's play since J Reggie's accusation has been sooooooo scummy.

[EFHW]

Plus, I've never once seen you mention Occam's razor as town. Twice as scum.

Which times were those?

[faust]

If it makes you feel better, I'm not lynching you for being alive, but for your obvious scum play.

Would you mind pointing out my obvious scum play?

[faust]

I reread J Reggie's reaction to RR's Jan claim.  It is true that he focuses first on RR and then on Seprix, and does not vote for Jan.  It reads as spontaneous to me, though, and Haddock's play since J Reggie's accusation has been sooooooo scummy.

How?

[faust]

If it makes you feel better, I'm not lynching you for being alive, but for your obvious scum play.

No, you know hat, fuck you. If I'm scummy because I'm playing this game and you just sit there doing nothing and making nonsense arguments and think that's how this game should be played, then go on and lynch me already and let me regret that I ever returned to forum mafia.

[EFHW]

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

vote: J Reggie
This is a total fabrication.  1 I don't know why scum would think this is a good idea, but apparently they think a 1 for 1 is worth it at this point.  2 Everyone note that please - if scum think a 1 for 1 is worth it at this point, that suggests that they're in a really strong position - maybe they think they can win tonight.

3 Jeez my reads have been absolutely awful this game.  First my strongest scumread flips town and now my strongest townread does this?  So much for that townread.  Thank god I didn't yet get round to claiming in the neighbourhood.  Jeepers.

Can everyone please look at this claim of Reggie's and note how convenient it is?  I mean, come on, he claims an investigatory role 4 that happens to explain every NK at once?  I can just picture the scum QT - "Reggie, claim an incriminatory result on someone.  Maybe Haddock".
Then new-to-RMM-scum!Reggie takes that a bit too much to heart and goes way overboard.

This was Haddock's first response and the one that really struck me as scummy.  I've put bold numbers in to refer to my reactions.
1. Speculating about scum's motives = distancing. 
2. Trying to scare town as form of distraction.
3. Expression of humility=appeal to emotion.
4. J Reggie's claim doesn't explain all the nk's.  It was not possible (one hopes) that scum got two nks in one night. This is a misleading statement.

This post seemed too confident of his townreads (me and Lyle):

So, Haddock - did you target a player not in J Reggie's list, or how do you know he's not telling the truth?

I do not have a targetting role. Nor does lyle. 
So yeah I considered redirection possibilities but that consideration did not take long. 

I mean seriously. Somehow EFHW targetted 4 people? Not seeing it.  This is all totally bogus.

Then he asked us not to lynch him while he was asleep because he wanted to do something in twilight, but didn't come on when teamlyle and faust asked to hear from him.

He hasn't been on yet today.

[Cellovix]

Hi guys, sorry about that. Things are resolved, and everything is okay.

I have been added to the neighborhood. Town read on Teamlyle is reinforced from it, JReggie is a mixed bag.  I don't like him trying to get a claim from Lyle in the first post of the chat, but he seems pretty transparent otherwise.

Need to parse things a little bit and read through the current discussion.

Leaning towards a Haddock lynch currently, because I struggle to find a town motivation for not claiming that the lynch is going to bounce.

@Haddock

Would your role have stopped kills, or only the lynch? This is fairly important.

[Haddock]

I'm here.
First, vote: j reggie.

NOW I can claim. Faust is correct, I am indeed Claire Bennet.  I am 1-shot Deathproof. When I die I miss the following game phase and then return the phase after that.

Faust was wrong about one thing though. I'm really annoyed I missed twilight - I had not been active in that time period as faust said.  I'd been rehearsing all day for a show (which opened tonight btw, hence the late post). I don't know if I made small posts elsewhere in the forums during what short breaks I had, but no way did I have time to contribute to a game.
I was going to claim in twilight - I don't know of any way I could be killed again while dead but I wanted to get my reads down for posterity just in case.  Didn't matter in the end.

The reason I didn't claim is simple enough - if I'm going to die it's way better for town if I'm lynched than nkd. That way I miss a night phase rather than a day phase so we're not deprived of a vote.

What a way for my first time ever being lynched to happen.

[J Reggie]

Sounds like haddock told Faust his fake claim in the scum cutie.

Also this:

The reason I didn't claim is simple enough - if I'm going to die it's way better for town if I'm lynched than nkd. That way I miss a night phase rather than a day phase so we're not deprived of a vote.

Is totally bogus.  Town's kill is our lynch. Taking that away is taking away our biggest power. If you had been NK'd by scum (which you wouldn't have because you're scum, bit just for the sake of the argument let's imagine), that would have been really good for us and totally worth not having you around for a day.

I'm not sure how much of this to believe, if any.

[J Reggie]

Then what are you waiting for?

Ok fine. I missed the action deadline by a few minutes and my result was randomized. I guess my line of thinking was that if scum got sent an invite, they could read through the neighborhood but not post, knowing that I'd have no idea who they were. But since I'm pretty sure haddock is scum it doesn't really make a difference.

They wouldn't have known they were chosen randomly.

That was the point. If the target didn't know they were chosen randomly, they wouldn't have been able to get away with not posting. But it doesn't matter because cellovix has already claimed in thread.

It's pretty hilarious that almost all of the living players are in my neighborhood.

[EFHW]

Sounds like haddock told Faust his fake claim in the scum cutie.

Also this:

The reason I didn't claim is simple enough - if I'm going to die it's way better for town if I'm lynched than nkd. That way I miss a night phase rather than a day phase so we're not deprived of a vote.

Is totally bogus.  Town's kill is our lynch. Taking that away is taking away our biggest power. If you had been NK'd by scum (which you wouldn't have because you're scum, bit just for the sake of the argument let's imagine), that would have been really good for us and totally worth not having you around for a day.

I'm not sure how much of this to believe, if any.

agree with this re: town's main power is the lynch and not claiming took that away.

[Cellovix]

Vote: Haddock

I don't believe the mindset behind not claiming comes from town, and I don't think his role as claimed and mine can co-exist and the setup still be balanced. I mean, they probably can, just both aren't town.  I do not want to claim further.

He'd make a lot of sense as a SK maybe - only one kill last night because he wasn't alive to make it.

[Cellovix]

Faust, what night did you claim to be vanillaized? N1 or N2?

[faust]

Sounds like haddock told Faust his fake claim in the scum cutie.

Right. And then I also spelled it out for him in the main thread, because that is such amazing play.

[Cellovix]

Nevermind, it was N1.  I thought I caught something, but false alarm.

[faust]

Well, then, this cannot be prevented I think.

I am Isaac Mendez, a Vision Painter. I have limited shots of a power, which does the following: When I use it, I can travel back in time to the night before and roleblock a player.

As is not hard to guess, I roleblocked Haddock in N2 last night. If he did perform the night kill, then we would have seen a resurrection. Of course it's possible that I have been roleblocked, but that is yet another pill I'd have to swallow for the Haddock-is-scum narrative and at this point I'm just not willing to.

[faust]

I really doubt that we would have lynched someone other than Haddock had he claimed the last day, but I agree that trying to be lynched instead of nightkilled just wasn't worth it.

[faust]

I don't believe the mindset behind not claiming comes from town, and I don't think his role as claimed and mine can co-exist and the setup still be balanced. I mean, they probably can, just both aren't town.  I do not want to claim further.

He'd make a lot of sense as a SK maybe - only one kill last night because he wasn't alive to make it.

We shouldn't really base our votes on setup speculation, and saying that your role can't coexist with Haddock's as well as saying that there is a SK are both setup speculations.

[Cellovix]

Well, then, this cannot be prevented I think.

I am Isaac Mendez, a Vision Painter. I have limited shots of a power, which does the following: When I use it, I can travel back in time to the night before and roleblock a player.

As is not hard to guess, I roleblocked Haddock in N2 last night. If he did perform the night kill, then we would have seen a resurrection. Of course it's possible that I have been roleblocked, but that is yet another pill I'd have to swallow for the Haddock-is-scum narrative and at this point I'm just not willing to.

I'm not sure I fully understand how time travel works here. Would Reggie's information have changed retroactively? Aka if you blocked Haddock from targeting someone on N2, would Reggie have had his information edited that he received regarding who the neighborhood targeted?

[faust]

I'm not sure I fully understand how time travel works here. Would Reggie's information have changed retroactively? Aka if you blocked Haddock from targeting someone on N2, would Reggie have had his information edited that he received regarding who the neighborhood targeted?

Yes, it should have... which is why I asked J Reggie if anything happened.

[Cellovix]

I am town.  Lyle is town courtesy of Seprix confirming the fact, and flipping town.  I am taking those two alignments as hard fact for this exercise.  I am operating under the assumption that there are 3 scum, while acknowledging that 4 is possible but pretty unlikely.  That leaves: JReggie, Faust, Haddock, EFHW, Iguana.

Scenario 1: Faust is town.

That means JReggie is almost certainly scum, Haddock almost certainly town, and one of Iguana or EFHW as JReggie's partner.

Scenario 2: Faust is scum.

That means he's going all in to protect Haddock and 1 for 1 JReggie.  I don't think Faust and JReggie are ever scum/scum here.  It could be scum Faust and town Haddock, with the attempt to tie them together.  I don't think EFHW makes much sense as Fausts partner for reasons related to the Neighbor chat. It's not a guarantee, just unlikely.  So in scenario 2 one of Haddock or Iguana are Faust's partner. 

~x~x~x

Objectively scenario 2 seems pretty contrived. It'd be some blatant play that lacks any kind of subtlety or nuance, unless it actually is Faust + JReggie, in which case I tip my hat and drink heavily to forget this game happened.

But scenario 1 is also kind of contrived because it'd mean JReggie just blatantly lied about his role and who people targeted with the end hope of...1v1'ing Haddock?  Were Chairs or Iguana in a good enough place at the time to win the game after he did that? I don't know.

There's are fringe scenarios that involve moderator error, a player being unable to be revived, Faust being roleblocked, etc.  In those scenarios I think Haddock is the most likely scum by behavior, with... I guess Iguana as his partner? EFHW has gone pretty hard at Haddock today to be on a team with him. JReggie is technically possible two, as the two defended each other in a weird way on day two I think it was.

[Cellovix]

That was strictly a logic exercise, and trying to put things down onto paper to see what makes sense, if anything.  If I have to pick one of the two, I think Scenario 1 makes a little bit more sense here.  But the problem is that no matter which scenario I look at, something runs contrary to my actual reads on players behaviorally.

I think Haddock has been the scummiest player in the game in a vaccuum.  I don't like his interactions with Jan, I don't like the opportunistic push he tried to force on Cron even after the tracker claim, I don't like the way he's interacted with me - he ignored my vote on him, and then continually called me scummy without really pushing it, like he knows I'm town and is afraid to get his hands dirty.  He did back off his scum read on me, but that could well be a case where he finally realized it was a mislynch that wasn't going to happen.

I've thought Iguana was pretty solidly town all game.  It's admittedly hard to articulate why, but he's just been so carefree, pushing no agenda, and giving no cares as to what anyone really thinks of him.  He refused to answer one of my questions that required a little bit of work, and I struggle to see scum doing that, when it'd be easier to just make things up than it would be to do the exercise honestly. He's just been so, so carefree and blatant, with the cheerful Wagons! and hopping around, and I just haven't seen any attempt at anything that could resemble an agenda.  There was also the opportunistic wagon that formed on him on Day Two, though it did disperse a little bit by day end.  Actually, I want to use this to post-edit my Scenario 2 - I don't think Iguana and Faust make a lot of sense as scum together, given the way that end of day happened.

I think EFHW/Chairs is solidly town.  Chairs is confirmed to target no one on N1 by Cron and was obviously disinterested in the game based on his role.  I think that's much, much more likely to come from town than scum faking that kind of disinterest.  EFHW has been great since they replaced in, although I admit there is an element of bias there as they've spoken in support of me, and agree with me about Haddock, so it's possible I'm getting fooled, but I don't think so.

I've talked about Lyle a lot, but he's just near Innocent Child levels to me. His early game newbishness, the role stuff with Seprix, and his earnestness and transparency in the neighbor QT.  I see no way he's scum.

Faust is someone I think I'll always have trouble reading because I'll want them to be town. He's been active, he's made attempts at analysis, he's cared about the game, and is one of the reasons I'd play here again, if I do. I can't even really articulate the case against him to be scum. I guess disproportionate survival instincts on Day Two, including the attempt at the very last second vote switch to Iguana to lynch him that could be construed a scumclaim and just delaying the lynch a day.  I don't like his near continual push on me since early day one, but I struggle to read people that scum read me because my instinctual reaction is something along the lines of, "What? How can you think I'm scum, I'm so obviously town you have to be scum trying to get a mislynch".  I think my ultimate conclusion on Faust behaviorally is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  My gut says he's town, but I suspect I'm always going to read him as pretty town due to activity, effort, and caring about the game when it feels like a chunk of the game hasn't.

JReggie is confusing. Strictly in thread I think he's been the second scummiest person behind Haddock.  I don't know how much to mitigate that because he claims he was intentionally trying to be scummy.  I didn't really like his Jan interactions on D1, I didn't really like his opportunistic vote hopping on D2, I didn't really like his interactions with Haddock, where they were protecting each other.  I don't like the fact that he immediately pushed for Lyle to claim in the neighbor chat, with no concern for the possibility of inviting scum into it in the future and spilling unneccesary information.  But I've liked almost everything else he's said and done in the neighbor chat.  There's a certain kind of guilelessness and transparency that I don't know if he's capable of faking. His logic for town reading Lyle in particular strikes me as something I'm not sure scum JReggie would have even thought of.  On the other hand, he explicitly was recruiting people who he deemed to not be a threat.  Lyle, Haddock, Chairs.  No offense to players intended, but if scum JReggie was forced to neighborize people, those are the players I'd expect him to be neighborizing, rather than ones who could catch him easily in the chat. Behaviorally he's a mixed bag, but I'd lean scum, especially given Cron, Seprix and Lyle had information already, and his information component claim is very, very strong.

But I don't think my individual behavior reads fit the claims, which means I'm wrong somewhere, or something is really weird mechanically.

It doesn't help that Time Travel as a game mechanic makes literally no sense to me. 

[iguanaiguana]

Could it be JReggie + Haddock still?

The idea being that we would inevitably lynch one and that would make the other a false-IC?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Haddock

because it's objectively better than voting Faust and may cause less swearing.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, with two scums left, how close are we to LyLo?

[Cellovix]

I really like Haddock/JReggie as scum from a behavioral perspective, but I'm not sure if it makes sense given Faust's claim.

If he's telling the truth and is right about how time travel works, then either Faust is scum (and Haddock might be scum), or Faust is town, and Haddock is also town.

[Cellovix]

I think LyLo is unknown, because there's the possibility of another kill.  On night two, two people died, and no one claimed it.

I think we have one mislynch available most of the time, but the absolute worst case scenario means lynching town today could be a loss.

[Cellovix]

Iguana, can you explain to me how you came to the conclusion that voting Haddock is "objectively better" than voting Faust? Did you read Faust's claim? Did you read my analysis of it? What are your thoughts on both.

[Cellovix]

Unvote

Going to sleep on it, maybe inspiration will strike.

[Cellovix]

Hm.

Possible brain spark. Fontisian's role was the silent ability blocker.  That sounds an awful lot like a town roleblocker.

It's admittedly heavily speculation, but it's there.

[faust]

Hum. I like your analysis, Cellovix, but is there any reason to not talk about neighborhood stuff more explicitly? Like, at this point, it's all but guaranteed that scum has access to it, so we get no benefit from keeping it secret. And I would like to hear more about what EFHW/J Reggie did in the neighborhood that seems towny.

[faust]

Could it be JReggie + Haddock still?

The idea being that we would inevitably lynch one and that would make the other a false-IC?

Possible. I guess I don't really see Haddock/J Reggie as the kind of team to go for that though. It would make some more sense considering the lynchproof.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 4.1


J Reggie (2): faust, Haddock
faust (1): J Reggie
Haddock (2): EFHW, iguanaiguana

Not Voting (2): teamlyle, Cellovix

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends 11 am Sunday August 13

[EFHW]

Hm.

Possible brain spark. Fontisian's role was the silent ability blocker.  That sounds an awful lot like a town roleblocker.

It's admittedly heavily speculation, but it's there.

We know she targeted faust N1.  Did anyone get vanillaized N2? faust did she target you again? You said something suggesting that.

[faust]

Hm.

Possible brain spark. Fontisian's role was the silent ability blocker.  That sounds an awful lot like a town roleblocker.

It's admittedly heavily speculation, but it's there.

We know she targeted faust N1.  Did anyone get vanillaized N2? faust did she target you again? You said something suggesting that.

No, I didn't get targeted again.

[EFHW]

faust's claim does shake things up here.  It's not proof that Haddock is town, though, so I wonder why he wanted to keep Haddock alive.  I'm presuming he can roleblock past actions of dead players. 

If there is a Sylar, and he copied RR's copy of Jan's ability, that would explain the failure of faust's action in resurrecting someone. 

OR... faust's flavor role name is Vision Painter.  Seprix was "Master of time and space".  That sounds like a better fit to the role faust described than Vision Painter. What if faust is Sylar, and he killed Seprix?

[EFHW]

Hm.

Possible brain spark. Fontisian's role was the silent ability blocker.  That sounds an awful lot like a town roleblocker.

It's admittedly heavily speculation, but it's there.

We know she targeted faust N1.  Did anyone get vanillaized N2? faust did she target you again? You said something suggesting that.

No, I didn't get targeted again.

I forgot - she died Day 2, so she didn't target anyone N2.

[EFHW]

I was thinking maybe silver vigged cron, since he had a violent alternate personality, but then he asked the killer to claim here.

If anyone can explain the 2nd kill N2, please do. 

[faust]

faust's claim does shake things up here.  It's not proof that Haddock is town, though, so I wonder why he wanted to keep Haddock alive.  I'm presuming he can roleblock past actions of dead players.

Well, if someone had returned to life, that would have been pretty conclusive evidence that Haddock is scum.

OR... faust's flavor role name is Vision Painter.  Seprix was "Master of time and space".  That sounds like a better fit to the role faust described than Vision Painter. What if faust is Sylar, and he killed Seprix?

FWIW, I think the flavor idea is that I see the future and then can prevent it.

[EFHW]

From the wiki, Hiro (Seprix) is clearly the one with the change the past and future ability, while Isaac just sees the future.  I want to vote faust.  Vote count please.

[gkrieg13]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15223.msg625140#msg625140

[faust]

It's back!

I wrote this response before the forum went down:

From the wiki, Hiro (Seprix) is clearly the one with the change the past and future ability, while Isaac just sees the future.  I want to vote faust.  Vote count please.

So your story is that I am scum, killed Seprix, got his ability and then claimed to have it to... what? Get myself lynched?

I see the future, yes. So say we are in night 2. I "see" how the "future" is turning out (by us actually playing D3), then (flavor!me still being in N2) I can do something to change what I saw. Consequently, a different future happens.

If you're going to vote me for this over a pair that (from your perspective especially!) is guaranteed to have scum among them, then shame on you!

[Haddock]

Trying to deduce things from flavour in this game seems pretty pointless.  The Haitian was town, and Noah Bennet is scum.
Roles will fit well I guess, but time travel roles are never gonna be perfect, by definition.    I still think there's a good chance faust is an SK, but I don't think we'll get far by trying to analyse his claim down to a tee.  For what it's worth, I think it's a perfectly believable claim - but let's face it, someone is fake claiming here, so let's look at people's play rather than their claims.


Going back a bit to the last bit I read before the forums broke, I want to respond to (mainly) EFHW's points about my reasons for not claiming.  I honestly don't understand the response.  I was really confident going in that not claiming was the right thing to do.  And you lot are making me doubt myself now.  I wasn't "depriving town of a lynch", that's total nonsense. 
My deeper thought process:  I had to balance the disadvantages of claiming (probably NK'd and we have a day with one fewer town, which could lose us the game) against the likelihood of my claiming preventing a lynch.   And honestly, at the stage we were at, if I'd claimed yesterday, I figured what would happen was "oh that's an easy enough claim to check, let's just lynch him - no harm, no foul".  So where's the benefit?   
I really thought this was a fairly obvious decision but all this aggressive response has thrown me off.   Was that an enormous cock-up?


I'm going to respond to something Cellovix said while I'm here, and hopefully I'll return this evening.  Cellovix claimed that my interactions with Jan were scummy.  My response: are you HIGH?  My interactions with Jan were insanely towny.  I was really early on his wagon (OK, not first on his wagon like you, but whatever), I presented cases against him and I was consistently on the side of lynching him over RR.  How do you get more towny than that?

Also, my defense of Reggie was completely justified in context.  Reggie was mod-confirmed to be Noah Bennet, who as far as I am concerned (Before the flavour in this game went totally off-the-wall) was a dead-cert to be town.  I defy anyone to have acted differently than I did in that situation. 

The advantage of the two days off is that it has isolated me from my reads somewhat, so hopefully I can read a bit and be a bit more objective.  Tonight I'm going to try to present a case against Reggie.  To me, he's essentially conf!scum, so it's inevitably going to be a bit of a biased case, but I'll try to be as even-handed as I can.

[J Reggie]

Noah Bennet is scum.

Objectively false. I don't know whether I can believe the rest of your post because this is just wrong.

[J Reggie]

Haddock, if you are town, then how would you feel about vote: teamlyle?

[faust]

Haddock, if you are town, then how would you feel about vote: teamlyle?

Ah, yes. Voting for the IC. Good plan.

[Haddock]

Noah Bennet is scum.

Objectively false. I don't know whether I can believe the rest of your post because this is just wrong.

But you are.  It annoys me no end, since I was townreading so hard, but I don't see how you can possibly be town, with your claim being as it is. 

Of course I'm not voting lyle.  I thought even you would agree he's an IC here.  Aren't we past this?

[iguanaiguana]

I really like Haddock/JReggie as scum from a behavioral perspective, but I'm not sure if it makes sense given Faust's claim.

If he's telling the truth and is right about how time travel works, then either Faust is scum (and Haddock might be scum), or Faust is town, and Haddock is also town.

If Haddock and J Reggie are scum together, then they are both lying. That means that they would lie about which one was performing the kills, saying it was Haddock when really it was J Reggie. So with a Haddock/J Reggie scum team, Faust traveling back in time to roleblock Haddock wouldn't do anything; he would need to roleblock J Reggie to prevent a kill.

The reason that Haddock is the best lynch is because he makes sense as scum with the most people. He could be J Reggie's partner or Faust's partner. But J Reggie/Faust is less likely given all the claims. And lynching outside of those three today doesn't make sense to me at all.

[faust]

The reason that Haddock is the best lynch is because he makes sense as scum with the most people. He could be J Reggie's partner or Faust's partner. But J Reggie/Faust is less likely given all the claims. And lynching outside of those three today doesn't make sense to me at all.

I mean, those are just 3 people. Do you really think you have nailed down scum to 3 people? What about EFHW, Cellovix, ,[you]? I have no compelling evidence to be sure that any of them is town.

[iguanaiguana]

I have a strong townread on Cellovix and a light townread on EFHW. Not lynching one of them today.

[faust]

I have a strong townread on Cellovix and a light townread on EFHW. Not lynching one of them today.

That's not the point though, is it? You're saying "let's lynch Haddock because he makes sense with more partners", but that kind of statement only makes sense if you consider all possible partners, not just the ones you'd want to lynch today.

[iguanaiguana]

I think he makes sense as EFHW's partner, and doesn't with Cellovix. I don't really care whether or not he makes sense as my partner, but if he does, let's lynch him for it.

[iguanaiguana]

And oh yeah Teamlyle is in this game.

[faust]

I think he makes sense as EFHW's partner, and doesn't with Cellovix. I don't really care whether or not he makes sense as my partner, but if he does, let's lynch him for it.

Why? And what about J Reggie, does he make sense as their partner? Beause I personally think he makes more sense as their partner, given how everyone pushes Haddock. Why does EFHW push their partner this hard?

[faust]

And oh yeah Teamlyle is in this game.

Yes. And soft-IC'd. Well if he's not town, at least I can blame losing the game on Seprix. Again.

[iguanaiguana]

And oh yeah Teamlyle is in this game.

Yes. And soft-IC'd. Well if he's not town, at least I can blame losing the game on Seprix. Again.

or if the two of you are scum together, you can congratulate Seprix for winning you the game!

[faust]

And oh yeah Teamlyle is in this game.

Yes. And soft-IC'd. Well if he's not town, at least I can blame losing the game on Seprix. Again.

or if the two of you are scum together, you can congratulate Seprix for winning you the game!

Contrary to what you might believe, I am not that big of a douchebag.

[J Reggie]

If teamlyle is town, then haddock basically has to be scum. Someone in my neighborhood targeted RR and it definitely wasn't EFHW.

Also Faust, even if you had changed what my results would have been, I only got them once, so I don't think I would get a different set of results.

[J Reggie]

So I guess it's back to vote: haddock. Since you're unable to vote for the only person who could clear you.

[faust]

If teamlyle is town, then haddock basically has to be scum. Someone in my neighborhood targeted RR and it definitely wasn't EFHW.

Also Faust, even if you had changed what my results would have been, I only got them once, so I don't think I would get a different set of results.

You would have. At least that's how it worked in my Buffy/Angel RMM, and gkrieg said that Time Travel works the same way here.

Why was it definitely not EFHW? Because of Cron's result?

[faust]

So I guess it's back to vote: haddock. Since you're unable to vote for the only person who could clear you.

Unannounced L-1.

[J Reggie]

If teamlyle is town, then haddock basically has to be scum. Someone in my neighborhood targeted RR and it definitely wasn't EFHW.

Also Faust, even if you had changed what my results would have been, I only got them once, so I don't think I would get a different set of results.

You would have. At least that's how it worked in my Buffy/Angel RMM, and gkrieg said that Time Travel works the same way here.

Why was it definitely not EFHW? Because of Cron's result?

Ok, and yes, because of cron's result.

[J Reggie]

So I guess it's back to vote: haddock. Since you're unable to vote for the only person who could clear you.

Unannounced L-1.

Sorry, didn't realize that.

[faust]

teamlyle hasn't posted on this Day so far.

Request prod on teamlyle

Also, request clarification on how the forum downtime affects our deadlines.

[gkrieg13]

teamlyle hasn't posted on this Day so far.

Request prod on teamlyle

Also, request clarification on how the forum downtime affects our deadlines.

I'll send the prod at the end of the day, because of the downtime. I'll add an extra day to the deadline. Because we skipped Friday and Saturday, which are generally low activity anyway, I only want to add one day.

[EFHW]

It's back!

I wrote this response before the forum went down:

From the wiki, Hiro (Seprix) is clearly the one with the change the past and future ability, while Isaac just sees the future.  I want to vote faust.  Vote count please.

So your story is that I am scum, killed Seprix, got his ability and then claimed to have it to... what? Get myself lynched?

I see the future, yes. So say we are in night 2. I "see" how the "future" is turning out (by us actually playing D3), then (flavor!me still being in N2) I can do something to change what I saw. Consequently, a different future happens.

If you're going to vote me for this over a pair that (from your perspective especially!) is guaranteed to have scum among them, then shame on you!

If you read the wiki on Hiro, his power sounds exactly like what you described, and we had a player flavor named Hiro, with flavor role master of time and space, and we likely have an sk with the ability to steal powers. I wouldn't expect you to make such an obvious mistake, but these things happen. Could be mod error, I guess, but like you say that's too many assumptions.
vote: faust

[faust]

If you read the wiki on Hiro, his power sounds exactly like what you described, and we had a player flavor named Hiro, with flavor role master of time and space, and we likely have an sk with the ability to steal powers. I wouldn't expect you to make such an obvious mistake, but these things happen. Could be mod error, I guess, but like you say that's too many assumptions.
vote: faust

I have tackle this with some detail I think, because there's just so much wrong with this thinking.

1. I read the stuff on the wiki. Basically you're saying that because my role is time-travelling, it has to be Hiro's power... am I getting that right? Or is there something specific to just travelling to the night before, or to roleblocking, that links to the character in any way? I don't see anything like that. So you say that there can only be one time-travelling role in this game? I guess it's possible, but it seems to not correlate with the amount of rule space given to time travel shenenigans.

2. What, in your opinion, would be a more faithful adaption of my character's powers?

3. You seem to suggest that I have to be a Serial Killer. Any reason why? We only have one unexplained death so far; I don't know why we should even have a SK. There are a number of other option that could explain an additional death.

4. Even if you think that this is incriminating, basing your vote upon a single piece of evidence on D4 is criminally careless.

5. Again, are you just going to ignore the Haddock/J Reggie situation? Why do you think that is a good idea?

6. Last but not least, I softclaimed a time-travelling role in my first post:

Save the Roadrunner, save the town!

...that joke used up all the Heroes knowledge I possess.

How could I do that if your theory was correct?

[faust]

That "softclaimed" in my last point should mean "breadcrumbed". Obviously it wasn't a softclaim.

[faust]

I always rather thought of EFHW is town, but this poit in the game is the obvious time for scum to go SK hunt if they know there is one... just don't think scum would be quite so blatant about it. Then again, it would be kinda hard to get the attention off Haddock/J Reggie otherwise. Well, damn, and here I thought I could comfortably place the other scum among Cellovix/iguana.

[EFHW]

If you read the wiki on Hiro, his power sounds exactly like what you described, and we had a player flavor named Hiro, with flavor role master of time and space, and we likely have an sk with the ability to steal powers. I wouldn't expect you to make such an obvious mistake, but these things happen. Could be mod error, I guess, but like you say that's too many assumptions.
vote: faust

I have tackle this with some detail I think, because there's just so much wrong with this thinking.

1. I read the stuff on the wiki. Basically you're saying that because my role is time-travelling, it has to be Hiro's power... am I getting that right? Or is there something specific to just travelling to the night before, or to roleblocking, that links to the character in any way? I don't see anything like that. So you say that there can only be one time-travelling role in this game? I guess it's possible, but it seems to not correlate with the amount of rule space given to time travel shenenigans.

2. What, in your opinion, would be a more faithful adaption of my character's powers?

3. You seem to suggest that I have to be a Serial Killer. Any reason why? We only have one unexplained death so far; I don't know why we should even have a SK. There are a number of other option that could explain an additional death.

4. Even if you think that this is incriminating, basing your vote upon a single piece of evidence on D4 is criminally careless.

5. Again, are you just going to ignore the Haddock/J Reggie situation? Why do you think that is a good idea?

6. Last but not least, I softclaimed a time-travelling role in my first post:

Save the Roadrunner, save the town!

...that joke used up all the Heroes knowledge I possess.

How could I do that if your theory was correct?

1. Yes. Hiro actually time travels and makes changes in other time frames, while Isaac remains in the present but can see the future, which is referred to as vision painting - your flavor role, consistent with your flavor name, is Vision Painter. So your flavor name matches your flavor role name, but the power you described does not match either.

2. I can't think of a great way to adapt Isaac's powers to the game.

3. Ok, I think you are Sylar.  He is described as a serial killer on wikipedia. Maybe you're scum.  That would explain your defense of Haddock.

4. I disagree that it is criminally careless to take note of a glaring contradiction and act accordingly. I am also basing it on my disagreeing with you on almost every point this game.

5. Killing Sylar is a very high priority, I think.

6. How is that a breadcrumb?

[Haddock]

About to start putting together a case on Reggie. 

Meantime:

your flavor name matches your flavor role name, but the power you described does not match either.

Disagree.  Faust's explanation actually makes perfect sense.  We are acting out whatshisface's vision by doing Day N+1 (we are "in the future") and he sees this and can change it.

6. How is that a breadcrumb?

With you here.  Not seeing the breadcrumb.

[faust]

6. How is that a breadcrumb?

With you here.  Not seeing the breadcrumb.

I have to admit playing with flavor I don't really know was kinda clumsy... but isn't that phrase used by some time-travelling guy on Heroes? So the idea was to breadcrumb time-travelling.

[EFHW]

Hey Jan, if you're there could you give me some background on my flavor role?

J Reggie, can you tell us your thinking here? Were you planning to claim so he could tell you more?  Why not just look up your flavor name on the internet?

[Haddock]

6. How is that a breadcrumb?

With you here.  Not seeing the breadcrumb.

I have to admit playing with flavor I don't really know was kinda clumsy... but isn't that phrase used by some time-travelling guy on Heroes? So the idea was to breadcrumb time-travelling.

Huh.  Yeah Hiro says it.  Slightly tenuous, since it's really quite a famous line from the show in general so you might have just gone and said it. 
But the fact that you remembered having said that suggests intentionality...

[faust]

So your flavor name matches your flavor role name, but the power you described does not match either.

2. I can't think of a great way to adapt Isaac's powers to the game.

So this Hiro would be able to time-travel to any time they wish, right? Well I cannot. Which I stated when I first claimed. So that doesn't fit that flavor. And again, you imply that there can only be one time-travelling role in the game for god knows what reason.

You say my role doesn't fit my flavor when I already explained it how it does (which Haddock kindly repeated) and you also can't offer another way my character would be incorporated into the game. I honestly don't understand what the fuss is all about and how you seem to be so sure of this that you're willing to bet the game on it.

I am also basing it on my disagreeing with you on almost every point this game.

Almost every = 2, right? The Haddock/JR situation and Cellovix. Or are there any other points of disagreement between us that I am unaware of?

[J Reggie]

Hey Jan, if you're there could you give me some background on my flavor role?

J Reggie, can you tell us your thinking here? Were you planning to claim so he could tell you more?  Why not just look up your flavor name on the internet?

If he and teamlyle were both scum, Jan could have known my flavor and I would have caught them both. It was kind of dumb though.

[Haddock]

So, Reggie.

My first point is a BIG stretch.  But he's insanely helpful early game.  Like, way way too helpful.  More than seems natural.  He might just be a super nice guy.   Or he might be grabbing for town points.

First point of note:

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim. Don't claim your time, since that gives scum an idea of whom they should kill. Only claim your alignment. That way, we'll know who the mafia are.

I'll start. I'm town.

Again, I'm not clearing him all game.

I most likely am.

The jokey idea about everyone claiming alignment is all well and fine but then he actually does it.  Is he actually trying to get people to all say "I'm town" one after the other?  That looks like an attempt at distracting town.

Decides to clear Cron for the whole game.  Well, eh.  Cron was town, but still - given what we had, not sure this was towny.  Cron's weird thing was, like, totally null - and scum like to have reasons for their tendency to give out too many townreads.

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim.

I'll start. I'm town.

vote: J Reggie

Nice to know my vote is in the right place.

A bad response to a not-entirely unreasonable vote from Seprix.

It wasn't meant to block discussion. It made more discussion. It led to people having actual reads on other people. Obviously I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, bit the way people reacted to the suggestion can be telling.

Nyeh.  Weeeeeaaaakkkkk.

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

So without looking this up, I'm going to analyze it. It's a soft flavor claim. That means the flavor is probably more likely to be town than scum. So the obvious thing to think is that ii is town. But keep in mind scum are often given fake flavor claims, and might want to use them in this way to make people think they're town. So I feel like this post points to ii being scum. vote: ii

I'm skimming and already disappointed at how much information is being handed out to scum.

Eh, I've only handed out information that I don't think is useful to scum. Or have I?

This is a scummy post.  The reasons for the ii vote are really weak and awful.  II is clearly just enjoying the flavour - why jump on this?

The final sentence is awful.

At this point it's more of a gut feeling than anything, but my early gut reads in Sherlock were right (that the was scum between you and ADK, and that Teproc was scum). So I'm not setting anything in stone but I'm on the lookout.

Translation: hedgety hedgety hedge hedge.

So I did a quick reread of RR (since he's first on the list) and realized I missed the whole softclaim thing. RR tends to be more excited about claims when he's scum, so I could see a vote: rr. But that's not final.

Also RR, I do hope the link in your signature is a joke.

Terrible vote on a towny player.
Then, having started the wagon, he hops off it to look better later:

I go to the zoo then I'm basically lynched.

Gkrieg gave me an extension on my action, I had until that Friday.

You know what, I'm willing to believe this. I'll unvote for now.

I mean, he was voting RR for other supposed reasons before he revoted him for the action nonsense.  This is not a good reason to unvote.

Then the Jan wagon starts up, and lo-and-behold:

I just realized something else. RR has claimed rolecop. We've been theorising that scum has the power to steal people's powers when they kill. WE DON'T WANT SCUM TO HAVE THIS POWERFUL OF A ROLECOP POWER. Therefore, I propose that we lynch RR now. If he flips town rolecop, we lynch Jan tomorrow. If he flips scum or not a rolecop, we leave Jan alone. This way, we get the info we need without giving scum the rolecop power.

vote: RR. What do people think?

Eventually he moves his vote to Seprix when the RR wagon doesn't reach a lynch, and is still there when we lynch Jan.

I shall start leading now.

Seprix is off the table for today.

faust is a suspect. As is the Seprix wagon, i.e. Cron, JReggie, and fontisian. We should probably lynch among those.

"One of my partners was lynched already. Let's kill everyone who suspected my other partner. "

OMGUS on a now-conf!towny.


He pushes faust early on D2, for not-very-good reasons.  faust's D1 play was pretty towny, and included being on the Jan wagon, which ironically Reggie tries to paint as a bad thing.  I get that he's trying to say faust might be bussing, but still.
Not knowing faust's alignment it's difficult to know what to take from this.

This whole interaction isn't very nice:

There is some information that might be good to share for me, but... well, I would really prefer to talk to someone with flavor knowledge first.

http://heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki

Ask away.

I know there's a wiki, and I read it, but I didn't get anything conclusive from it unfortunately. Do you know more or are you just snarky?

I'm just snarky. Sorry, I didn't know if it would have occurred to you to check the wiki.

and clashes massively with his earlier super-helpful play.

This

this is weird, but since it's about claim, I guess we're not supposed to get it.

Right now I'd like to lynch J Reggie... or if not faust or maybe iguana.

I'm really that scummy?

I could maybe say is AtE.  Bit of a stretch maybe.


OK now this:

So in response to Faust about why I targeted who I targeted: I targeted teamlyle because he's new and might slip up as scum. I targeted haddock because I found him towny and didn't think he would die.

I asked Jan if he knew my flavor because that would out him and teamlyle as scum, and it's fishy that the horn rimmed glasses thing referred to me, but I think teamlyle is town so whatevs.

To Faust: I tried to start off D1 with a joking attitude and keep a high profile. I then was more carefree with my cases and reads, such as the one on ii that everyone hated. I was trying to be scummy enough that I wouldn't get NK'd before I used my second power but towny enough so I wouldn't get lynched. I obviously failed on the second part.

So that's where my thoughts are at. I actually think a fontisian wagon is a great idea here. In case I'm not already voting her, vote: fontisian.

So, lots of other things - and then a fonti vote out of nowhere without explanation?  Huh?

Eventually we get to this:

I'm going to go with my conscience and vote: Faust.

which takes ii from L-1 to a 4/3 situation of ii/faust.  I think without this vote change the nightmare at the end of that day would never have happened.  Bad.

The next thing of real significance is this:

Ok, I really need to claim. My one-shot ability was to learn who everyone in my neighborhood targeted since the beginning of the game. I don't know who targeted whom, just a list of people that have been targeted by the people in my neighborhood. One of those is Faust, whom ehfw has claimed to have targeted.

The other three are RR, cron, and Seprix. This leads me to believe that someone in my neighborhood is scum, and I think that someone is Haddock.

vote: haddock.

I've already commented on how insanely convenient this claim is. 

Gonna stop the read/case here since I'm tired and everything else has probably been discussed enough recently.

[EFHW]

So is there a contradiction in my accusing faust of being SK and Haddock of being scum?  If faust is SK, he would be scumhunting along with town, and would not lie to protect Haddock. I guess he also wouldn't expose his stolen power just to clear him.

And if I am right that faust is Sylar but they are both scum, then I shouldn't be relying on flavor for clues because Sylar should be a serial killer. 

So unvote.

[EFHW]

So, Reggie.

My first point is a BIG stretch.  But he's insanely helpful early game.  Like, way way too helpful.  More than seems natural.  He might just be a super nice guy.   Or he might be grabbing for town points.

First point of note:

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim. Don't claim your time, since that gives scum an idea of whom they should kill. Only claim your alignment. That way, we'll know who the mafia are.

I'll start. I'm town.

Again, I'm not clearing him all game.

I most likely am.

The jokey idea about everyone claiming alignment is all well and fine but then he actually does it.  Is he actually trying to get people to all say "I'm town" one after the other?  That looks like an attempt at distracting town.

Decides to clear Cron for the whole game.  Well, eh.  Cron was town, but still - given what we had, not sure this was towny.  Cron's weird thing was, like, totally null - and scum like to have reasons for their tendency to give out too many townreads.

I think it was teamlyle who was being cleared here, not Cron.

[EFHW]

Haddock's reread of J Reggie is pretty clearly an attempt to make everything look scummy rather than a balanced look.  I can see where a balanced look could be difficult, but the case doesn't really help Haddock.

One point I did note as well, though - J Reggie, why didn't you vote for Jan?

Wondering what to make of this post by faust. faust, what did you mean about voting Jan being the wrong choice?

I can kinda think of a flavour reason for it.  It's a bit of a stretch.

But let's get real.  We're lynching either RR or Jan here, and that seems like an easy enough choice to me.
vote: Jan

It is an easy enough choice. But you made the wrong one still.

[teamlyle]

Sorry for my absence! I typed up a post but then the forums went down after I hit submit

Anyway I'm going to vote: faust because he's probably a better bet than either Haddock or J Reggie. His emotional post where he said he was going to regret rejoining forum mafia seems so out of place especially for a player who was more logical earlier.

[EFHW]

Sorry for my absence! I typed up a post but then the forums went down after I hit submit

You broke the forum!

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Faust is totally fine with me.

[iguanaiguana]

Faust, Haddock, EFHW all read scummy to me right now, in that order, with Faust and Haddock being the only two I'm interested in voting today.

EFHW's bad waffling in that recent post is what pushed her up.

[J Reggie]

J Reggie, why didn't you vote for Jan?

I guess because I didn't think he was scum?  I don't know.  I'm not perfect.  D1 is always hard to have good reads on.  But now I'm much more sure that Haddock and Faust are scum, especially after Haddock's bogus reread of me. 

[J Reggie]

OK Haddock, I'll be nice to you.  If you will vote:EFHW, then you might be town.  Otherwise, you're 100% conf!scum, no turning back.  Think about this one. 

[Cellovix]

OK Haddock, I'll be nice to you.  If you will vote:EFHW, then you might be town.  Otherwise, you're 100% conf!scum, no turning back.  Think about this one. 

EFHW claimed to target Faust though. So for you to be town, Haddock to be town, and Lyle to be town, it means EFHW targeted all of the kills, plus Faust... despite the tracker confirming EFHW did not target anyone on night one.

I don't think it's mechanically possible for you and Haddock to both be town, unless Lyle is scum.

[faust]

Anyway I'm going to vote: faust because he's probably a better bet than either Haddock or J Reggie. His emotional post where he said he was going to regret rejoining forum mafia seems so out of place especially for a player who was more logical earlier.

I can be logical and emotional at the same time.

Why? Why on earth do you think I have a greater than 50% chance of being scum? Please tell me.

[faust]

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

[faust]

Okay, maybe not, because you're all acting scummy. Whatever happened to rereads? Analysis? This is how mislynches happen. And worse, this may very well be the final mislynch scum needs.

[faust]

Wondering what to make of this post by faust. faust, what did you mean about voting Jan being the wrong choice?

Well, at the time RR's claim looked bad. What with him having a night 0 action even though he didn't even read his role until D1 and then claiming he got an extension when the OP makes a big point of deadlines being strict.

[teamlyle]

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

Wow you're desperate

EFHW's bad waffling in that recent post is what pushed her up.

Wait you mean the one that said "You broke the forum"?

[faust]

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

Wow you're desperate

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game. First you'll lynch me, and then you'll lynch Haddock, and then the game is lost.

[J Reggie]

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

Wow you're desperate

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game. First you'll lynch me, and then you'll lynch Haddock, and then the game is lost.

For you. Which is a win for the rest of us.

[faust]

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

Wow you're desperate

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game. First you'll lynch me, and then you'll lynch Haddock, and then the game is lost.

For you. Which is a win for the rest of us.

[Haddock]

So, Reggie.

My first point is a BIG stretch.  But he's insanely helpful early game.  Like, way way too helpful.  More than seems natural.  He might just be a super nice guy.   Or he might be grabbing for town points.

First point of note:

Hey, let's try something along the lines of a mass claim. Don't claim your time, since that gives scum an idea of whom they should kill. Only claim your alignment. That way, we'll know who the mafia are.

I'll start. I'm town.

Again, I'm not clearing him all game.

I most likely am.

The jokey idea about everyone claiming alignment is all well and fine but then he actually does it.  Is he actually trying to get people to all say "I'm town" one after the other?  That looks like an attempt at distracting town.

Decides to clear Cron for the whole game.  Well, eh.  Cron was town, but still - given what we had, not sure this was towny.  Cron's weird thing was, like, totally null - and scum like to have reasons for their tendency to give out too many townreads.

I think it was teamlyle who was being cleared here, not Cron.

You're right.  I meant lyle throughout.  lyle did the weird thing early on and Cron gave him a D1 pass for it, etc.  typos.  The point stands.

Haddock's reread of J Reggie is pretty clearly an attempt to make everything look scummy rather than a balanced look.  I can see where a balanced look could be difficult, but the case doesn't really help Haddock.

So call it a case, not a reread.  I think I called it a read/case?  Obviously I'm trying to make Reggie look scummy.  As far as I'm concerned he's conf!scum, I'm trying my best to convince everyone of that.

Can noone see how crazy scummy J Reggie behaves here?

Wow you're desperate

How so?  Reggie is being crazy scummy right now.  Is it really just faust and I that see it? 
If Reggie were town, with the result he's claiming he would 100% be voting for me here, but instead he's throwing his vote in all kinds of other insane directions to try to get some traction elsewhere.

[teamlyle]

@Haddock: I'm guessing that what Reggie was trying to do was see if you would jump on the wagon, which you didn't. Maybe he was trying to give you scum points, I dunno. But since you're one-shot death proof, I think that's probably a sign of town because it would be a lot more overpowered if you were scum.

Anyway faust, I'm sorry if I cause you to regret rejoining forum mafia. Honestly though, I think that being desperate and trying to guilt trip me is pretty scummy so I'm still going to vote for you.

[J Reggie]

We should hammer haddock.

[iguanaiguana]

I have a case on you Faust. I have been too busy to make it with all the quotes and everything because that is very time consuming, and there is no need for me to do it either because the lynch is heading your way anyway.

[iguanaiguana]

EFHW's bad waffling in that recent post is what pushed her up.

Wait you mean the one that said "You broke the forum"?
[/quote]

I mean this:

So is there a contradiction in my accusing faust of being SK and Haddock of being scum?  If faust is SK, he would be scumhunting along with town, and would not lie to protect Haddock. I guess he also wouldn't expose his stolen power just to clear him.

And if I am right that faust is Sylar but they are both scum, then I shouldn't be relying on flavor for clues because Sylar should be a serial killer. 

So unvote.

Unvoting for a somewhat obtuse theory/flavor reason is scummy.

[iguanaiguana]

I just realized also that if Teamlyle is in fact an IC, and with my own knowledge that I am town, from my perspective, Faust should be confirmed scum?

We need four to lynch, and expect at least two scum left in the game. Teamlyle and I have been voting him all night, so the remaining two scum could have hammered Faust if he were town, and not looked bad at all for doing it.

Alright, I guess that isn't bombproof, because this isn't LyLo, but it's good enough indication that he is the correct lynch to me for me to really want to stay.

[iguanaiguana]

We should hammer haddock.

Why do you say this now when you have changed your mind so many times today?

[J Reggie]

We should hammer haddock.

Why do you say this now when you have changed your mind so many times today?

I haven't changed my mind. I've been giving haddock chances and he's been blowing them away. By the way, vote: haddock, which is L-something.

[iguanaiguana]

We should hammer haddock.

Why do you say this now when you have changed your mind so many times today?

I haven't changed my mind. I've been giving haddock chances and he's been blowing them away. By the way, vote: haddock, which is L-something.

With the information you have, why would you be giving Haddock chances, and why would you those chances take the form of votes on Faust and Teamlyle?

[J Reggie]

We should hammer haddock.

Why do you say this now when you have changed your mind so many times today?

I haven't changed my mind. I've been giving haddock chances and he's been blowing them away. By the way, vote: haddock, which is L-something.

With the information you have, why would you be giving Haddock chances, and why would you those chances take the form of votes on Faust and Teamlyle?

Because the only way for haddock to be town, with the info I have, is for EFHW or teamlyle to be scum. Since haddock isn't willing to go after either of those, I have no choice but to lynch him.

[iguanaiguana]

We should hammer haddock.

Why do you say this now when you have changed your mind so many times today?

I haven't changed my mind. I've been giving haddock chances and he's been blowing them away. By the way, vote: haddock, which is L-something.

With the information you have, why would you be giving Haddock chances, and why would you those chances take the form of votes on Faust and Teamlyle?

Because the only way for haddock to be town, with the info I have, is for EFHW or teamlyle to be scum. Since haddock isn't willing to go after either of those, I have no choice but to lynch him.

Let's put aside the fact that I disagree with this whole line of thinking about giving a scummy player with evidence against them "chances."

If you think the only possible scums are EFHW, Teamlyle, or Haddock, why did you open the day with a vote on Faust?

[faust]

I just realized also that if Teamlyle is in fact an IC, and with my own knowledge that I am town, from my perspective, Faust should be confirmed scum?

We need four to lynch, and expect at least two scum left in the game. Teamlyle and I have been voting him all night, so the remaining two scum could have hammered Faust if he were town, and not looked bad at all for doing it.

I debate the "not looked bad" part. If I flip town, of course they're going to look bad. Why not? Because I'm scummy for some reason that you're too [redacted] lazy to lay out? And 2-player quicklynch can go very wrong, and they (hopefully) don't win after this.

[Cellovix]

@JReggie

I asked you a question in the neighborhood chat, which you haven't answered.  You wanted to recruit someone "non-threatening", and you mentioned myself, Cron and Haddock.  Can you explain what you meant by threatening, and why those were your choices?  Furthermore, can you explain why you picked the players you did, on the nights you did? Your first few picks were Lyle, Haddock, and Chairs.  Those are probably the three lowest posters in the game, at the time you picked them, so it stood to reason they wouldn't post much in the QT either. Furthermore, if your information component was some mass track, why did you pick Chairs when Cron had already said he targeted no one on night one?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset you had and what you were trying to accomplish.  If you were picking town reads, why did you pick ones who weren't likely to actually use the chat and discuss things? If you were trying to generate information with the mass track, why wouldn't you pick scum reads, and why did you pick Chairs?

I think Lyle is effectively confirmed town, and I think EMFW is pretty town behaviorally, on top of Chairs' play matching disinterested town to a T.  So I agree that at least one of you or Haddock has to be scum, therefore am trying to figure out if how you've handled the role can come from town, versus scum who had to pick people, and went out of his way to pick people that weren't a threat to catch him, or something.  Because that "non threatening" word choice is something I have trouble seeing come from town there.

[iguanaiguana]

I just realized also that if Teamlyle is in fact an IC, and with my own knowledge that I am town, from my perspective, Faust should be confirmed scum?

We need four to lynch, and expect at least two scum left in the game. Teamlyle and I have been voting him all night, so the remaining two scum could have hammered Faust if he were town, and not looked bad at all for doing it.

I debate the "not looked bad" part. If I flip town, of course they're going to look bad. Why not? Because I'm scummy for some reason that you're too [redacted] lazy to lay out? And 2-player quicklynch can go very wrong, and they (hopefully) don't win after this.

I've voted for you twice, because I think you are probably scum, and said no insults. You've told me "Fuck you" and called me lazy for doing that.

You've never once done anything like this to EgorK or Joseph or Chairs or Roadrunner or any other Teamlyle FFS or any of the many other players on our site that rarely form long cases of their own but still vote based on their reads and other people's cases.

It's obvious that this is personal, and that means you are breaking the golden rule of this site.

Lay off now, or I will pursue having you mod-killed.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm not saying you can't find my trying to lynch you, but please just stop swearing and insulting me already. It's not necessary.

[iguanaiguana]

*fight

[iguanaiguana]

All of that @Faust in case it wasn't clear.

[iguanaiguana]

Bleh, sorry, I probably overreacted.

[iguanaiguana]

@JReggie

I asked you a question in the neighborhood chat, which you haven't answered.  You wanted to recruit someone "non-threatening", and you mentioned myself, Cron and Haddock.  Can you explain what you meant by threatening, and why those were your choices?  Furthermore, can you explain why you picked the players you did, on the nights you did? Your first few picks were Lyle, Haddock, and Chairs.  Those are probably the three lowest posters in the game, at the time you picked them, so it stood to reason they wouldn't post much in the QT either. Furthermore, if your information component was some mass track, why did you pick Chairs when Cron had already said he targeted no one on night one?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset you had and what you were trying to accomplish.  If you were picking town reads, why did you pick ones who weren't likely to actually use the chat and discuss things? If you were trying to generate information with the mass track, why wouldn't you pick scum reads, and why did you pick Chairs?

I think Lyle is effectively confirmed town, and I think EMFW is pretty town behaviorally, on top of Chairs' play matching disinterested town to a T.  So I agree that at least one of you or Haddock has to be scum, therefore am trying to figure out if how you've handled the role can come from town, versus scum who had to pick people, and went out of his way to pick people that weren't a threat to catch him, or something.  Because that "non threatening" word choice is something I have trouble seeing come from town there.

At this point, I am highly inclined to sheep Cellovix on whatever he thinks is best.

[faust]

Anyway faust, I'm sorry if I cause you to regret rejoining forum mafia. Honestly though, I think that being desperate and trying to guilt trip me is pretty scummy so I'm still going to vote for you.

Okay, asking for reasons is now "guilt tripping". Great.

PPE: 6

[faust]

I've voted for you twice, because I think you are probably scum, and said no insults. You've told me "Fuck you" and called me lazy for doing that.

Okay. I'm sorry. There might be some... ongoing game stuff that caused my behaviour. Better to discuss it after the game probably, at least after that game finished.

You've never once done anything like this to EgorK or Joseph or Chairs or Roadrunner or any other Teamlyle FFS or any of the many other players on our site that rarely form long cases of their own but still vote based on their reads and other people's cases.

I'm pretty sure I've called at least some of these people lazy (or equivalent) before. The swearing was uncalled for, you're right. I was just frustrated that I get nothing to work with, and I felt that you're not trying.

[faust]

And I swear this is not going against you personally, it's just general frustration with what f.ds mafia has changed into which has probably unjustly been directed towards you.

[faust]

And frankly, this game is just such a mess to me. I'm on the brink of being lynched when there's a pair of 2 players of which one is pretty certainly scum, and I even have a pretty good idea which one, and I don't get why I'm considered as an alternative to them at all.

[Cellovix]

I've been jotting down some scum team possibilities to see if logic can solve the game.  It's a habit I've gotten into on other sites where there is no alignment reveal, so you have to keep in mind multiple possibilities.

There are 7 players alive.  I am town, Lyle is IC'd courtesy of Faust.

That leaves JReggie, Haddock, Faust, Iguana, EFHW.

Assuming two mafia remaining, here are the possible scum teams:

Faust/EFHW
Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
Faust/Iguana
EFHW/JReggie
EFHW/Haddock
EFHW/Iguana
JReggie/Haddock
JReggie/Iguana
Haddock/Iguana

Faust and Iguana is an impossible scum team, because it is not mechanically possible for all of JReggie, Haddock, EMFW and Lyle to be town, with the contradicting claim.

I think EFHW has been very behaviorally town, for their own play in the thread and in the QT, plus Chairs' lack of N1 action + disinterest in game matching with underwhelming town role.  I'm removing those options for now.

That leaves:

Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
JReggie/Haddock
JReggie/Iguana
Haddock/Iguana

If Faust is town, that makes Haddock more likely town because of the retroactive roleblock on Night Two.  So that makes Haddock/Iguana, JReggie/Haddock less likely.

Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
JReggie/Iguana

Using that logic we're left with these three teams.  None of those makes perfect sense, but if a scum team does make perfect sense they played rather poorly, I suppose.  I want to go back and look at Jan interactions again, maybe, because I'm kind of just looking at the gamestate right now and going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I have trouble seeing Haddock's role co-exist with mine, but I don't know enough about RMM games to say that with any certainty.  Just talking from dozens of games hosted as a designer and moderator. I haven't liked a lot of things he's done, which I've outlined previously.  But Faust's claim gives me some pause, as does JReggie pushing against EMFW to possibly try and chain mislynches.

There's also the elephant in the room of the second kill on night two.  I didn't make it. EFHW didn't make it (since targeted Faust on N2). Lyle didn't make it.  No one dead made it, I don't think. So one of JReggie, Haddock, Faust, or Iguana are responsible for the second kill on that night.  I don't necessarily think that's something we should resolve today, but it bears being concerned about as our number grows fewer.

[iguanaiguana]

And frankly, this game is just such a mess to me. I'm on the brink of being lynched when there's a pair of 2 players of which one is pretty certainly scum, and I even have a pretty good idea which one, and I don't get why I'm considered as an alternative to them at all.

I believe it is mainly because you are playing in a really antagonistic way, and making a lot more statements than asking questions. I get the impression from you that you seem to know everything already, which is the very definition of scum in a mafia game. I have seen you play as town in a much more questioning way, distrusting everyone. Here you are saying "J Reggie is obviously scum, and we all need to lynch him." It feels like you have an agenda that as town you should not have. And I have seen you play as scum just like this in the past.

I can remember moments from you in the past where you fakeclaimed beloved princess, and yet you were the traitor, and where you came out against Witherweaver with a strong claim that you had tracked them and saw them performing the kill, and you were mafia. So that makes it a lot harder for me to trust you when you say "I roleblocked Haddock and nothing happened, so J Reggie is scum here." It makes me think that when you have a claim that no one can in any way substantiate, I trust you less, not more.

I could do quotes and all of that but again I don't want to spend an hour sitting here when I have laundry to do and work in the afternoon.

[Cellovix]

@JReggie

I asked you a question in the neighborhood chat, which you haven't answered.  You wanted to recruit someone "non-threatening", and you mentioned myself, Cron and Haddock.  Can you explain what you meant by threatening, and why those were your choices?  Furthermore, can you explain why you picked the players you did, on the nights you did? Your first few picks were Lyle, Haddock, and Chairs.  Those are probably the three lowest posters in the game, at the time you picked them, so it stood to reason they wouldn't post much in the QT either. Furthermore, if your information component was some mass track, why did you pick Chairs when Cron had already said he targeted no one on night one?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset you had and what you were trying to accomplish.  If you were picking town reads, why did you pick ones who weren't likely to actually use the chat and discuss things? If you were trying to generate information with the mass track, why wouldn't you pick scum reads, and why did you pick Chairs?

I think Lyle is effectively confirmed town, and I think EMFW is pretty town behaviorally, on top of Chairs' play matching disinterested town to a T.  So I agree that at least one of you or Haddock has to be scum, therefore am trying to figure out if how you've handled the role can come from town, versus scum who had to pick people, and went out of his way to pick people that weren't a threat to catch him, or something.  Because that "non threatening" word choice is something I have trouble seeing come from town there.

At this point, I am highly inclined to sheep Cellovix on whatever he thinks is best.

If you end up being scum this game, congratulations on quite thoroughly fucking with my head. Because I have trouble fathoming scum ever saying this about someone they know is town.

[Cellovix]

I was leaning towards JReggie/Iguana but now I'm having doubts after Iguana's recent posting.

How likely is a team of JReggie + Haddock scum? Where they were defending each other on day two, and then came up with the plan to claim an outlandish supertracker result to create a dichotomy between them, ensuring whichever one wasn't lynched would get away freely?

[iguanaiguana]

Faust and Iguana is an impossible scum team, because it is not mechanically possible for all of JReggie, Haddock, EMFW and Lyle to be town, with the contradicting claim.

Damn straight.

I think EFHW has been very behaviorally town, for their own play in the thread and in the QT, plus Chairs' lack of N1 action + disinterest in game matching with underwhelming town role.  I'm removing those options for now.

I don't love giving a full game pass to EFHW. A pass for the day is a lot better. We need to look at her tomorrow I think regardless of what happens today.

That leaves:

Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
JReggie/Haddock
JReggie/Iguana
Haddock/Iguana

If Faust is town, that makes Haddock more likely town because of the retroactive roleblock on Night Two.  So that makes Haddock/Iguana, JReggie/Haddock less likely.

Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
JReggie/Iguana

Using that logic we're left with these three teams.  None of those makes perfect sense, but if a scum team does make perfect sense they played rather poorly, I suppose.  I want to go back and look at Jan interactions again, maybe, because I'm kind of just looking at the gamestate right now and going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

This is good deduction for the most part, but I think I'd come down to possible scumteams being

Faust/JReggie
Faust/Haddock
Faust/ EFHW
EFHW / J Reggie
EFHW / Haddock

because I do think there is still a chance at least that she is scum.

I have trouble seeing Haddock's role co-exist with mine, but I don't know enough about RMM games to say that with any certainty.  Just talking from dozens of games hosted as a designer and moderator. I haven't liked a lot of things he's done, which I've outlined previously.  But Faust's claim gives me some pause, as does JReggie pushing against EMFW to possibly try and chain mislynches.

No comment here, since I don't know your role.

There's also the elephant in the room of the second kill on night two.  I didn't make it. EFHW didn't make it (since targeted Faust on N2). Lyle didn't make it.  No one dead made it, I don't think. So one of JReggie, Haddock, Faust, or Iguana are responsible for the second kill on that night.  I don't necessarily think that's something we should resolve today, but it bears being concerned about as our number grows fewer.

I think I actually have an adequate explanation for this. My role mentions the existence of a motivator. I am a time traveler, but I am only allowed to time travel if I am targeted by the motivator.

I mentioned this on an earlier day, and I was neither killed at night nor targeted by the motivator; basically, I was ignored. That makes me think that the motivator is now dead, and possibly that Seprix, master of time and space, was the motivator. In another game, I think it was Sherlock Mafia, being targeted by the motivator allowed a scum player to make an extra kill.

Therefore, it's very possible that someone on the scum team was targeted by the motivator before the motivator was killed and got an extra kill for night 2. If this is true, there is likely no serial killer, just mafia.

[iguanaiguana]

I was leaning towards JReggie/Iguana but now I'm having doubts after Iguana's recent posting.

How likely is a team of JReggie + Haddock scum? Where they were defending each other on day two, and then came up with the plan to claim an outlandish supertracker result to create a dichotomy between them, ensuring whichever one wasn't lynched would get away freely?

I still think this is possible, and in that case J Reggie was the one doing the kills, so Faust's roleblocking Haddock had no effect.

J Reggie has been scummy, as Faust has pointed out, but Faust's pushing him makes me super worried.

[iguanaiguana]

@JReggie

I asked you a question in the neighborhood chat, which you haven't answered.  You wanted to recruit someone "non-threatening", and you mentioned myself, Cron and Haddock.  Can you explain what you meant by threatening, and why those were your choices?  Furthermore, can you explain why you picked the players you did, on the nights you did? Your first few picks were Lyle, Haddock, and Chairs.  Those are probably the three lowest posters in the game, at the time you picked them, so it stood to reason they wouldn't post much in the QT either. Furthermore, if your information component was some mass track, why did you pick Chairs when Cron had already said he targeted no one on night one?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset you had and what you were trying to accomplish.  If you were picking town reads, why did you pick ones who weren't likely to actually use the chat and discuss things? If you were trying to generate information with the mass track, why wouldn't you pick scum reads, and why did you pick Chairs?

I think Lyle is effectively confirmed town, and I think EMFW is pretty town behaviorally, on top of Chairs' play matching disinterested town to a T.  So I agree that at least one of you or Haddock has to be scum, therefore am trying to figure out if how you've handled the role can come from town, versus scum who had to pick people, and went out of his way to pick people that weren't a threat to catch him, or something.  Because that "non threatening" word choice is something I have trouble seeing come from town there.

At this point, I am highly inclined to sheep Cellovix on whatever he thinks is best.

If you end up being scum this game, congratulations on quite thoroughly fucking with my head. Because I have trouble fathoming scum ever saying this about someone they know is town.

I'm a town. Let's do this. I wanna get the scums.

Wagons!

[faust]

I believe it is mainly because you are playing in a really antagonistic way, and making a lot more statements than asking questions. I get the impression from you that you seem to know everything already, which is the very definition of scum in a mafia game. I have seen you play as town in a much more questioning way, distrusting everyone. Here you are saying "J Reggie is obviously scum, and we all need to lynch him." It feels like you have an agenda that as town you should not have. And I have seen you play as scum just like this in the past.

It's funny, because honestly I'm pretty much at a "distrusting everyone" point. I am saying J Reggie is obviously scum, yes. That's how it looks to me. I mean, if it just were my result, I would be skeptical. But the main thing is I just cannot make sense of scum!Haddock being lynchproof and also being somehow able to target 2 people in the same night. And then J Reggie has been so scummy D1 with the Jan lynch, and D2 with the "I've been playing scummy on purpose" stuff, and [ongoing game stuff].

I may not be asking a lot of questions because to me it seems that I have found scum, but somehow everyone else disagrees and I don't really get it. I tried to get it, get responses and stuff, it didn't work. You can be sure that I will be asking a lot more questions once we've resolved this.

I can remember moments from you in the past where you fakeclaimed beloved princess, and yet you were the traitor, and where you came out against Witherweaver with a strong claim that you had tracked them and saw them performing the kill, and you were mafia. So that makes it a lot harder for me to trust you when you say "I roleblocked Haddock and nothing happened, so J Reggie is scum here." It makes me think that when you have a claim that no one can in any way substantiate, I trust you less, not more.

I get that you would aprroach my claim with caution. But if you look at those previous examples, I always claimed because the claim directly benefitted my team. I like to think that I am somewhat good at fakeclaiming. My claim here would kinda make sense as a fakeclaim if it ensured a mafia win... but that seems less than sure. Otherwise, I just put myself in a dangerous position. I get that it could look as though I am Haddock's partner... that would be ballsy play, but yeah I sometimes do that... but in that case, wouldn't it be better to lynch Haddock? And then me? Because Haddock's flip at the very least gives definite information about J Reggie's alignment.

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote

time to do this sheep Cellovix thing for real.

[iguanaiguana]

I believe it is mainly because you are playing in a really antagonistic way, and making a lot more statements than asking questions. I get the impression from you that you seem to know everything already, which is the very definition of scum in a mafia game. I have seen you play as town in a much more questioning way, distrusting everyone. Here you are saying "J Reggie is obviously scum, and we all need to lynch him." It feels like you have an agenda that as town you should not have. And I have seen you play as scum just like this in the past.

It's funny, because honestly I'm pretty much at a "distrusting everyone" point. I am saying J Reggie is obviously scum, yes. That's how it looks to me. I mean, if it just were my result, I would be skeptical. But the main thing is I just cannot make sense of scum!Haddock being lynchproof and also being somehow able to target 2 people in the same night. And then J Reggie has been so scummy D1 with the Jan lynch, and D2 with the "I've been playing scummy on purpose" stuff, and [ongoing game stuff].

I may not be asking a lot of questions because to me it seems that I have found scum, but somehow everyone else disagrees and I don't really get it. I tried to get it, get responses and stuff, it didn't work. You can be sure that I will be asking a lot more questions once we've resolved this.

I can remember moments from you in the past where you fakeclaimed beloved princess, and yet you were the traitor, and where you came out against Witherweaver with a strong claim that you had tracked them and saw them performing the kill, and you were mafia. So that makes it a lot harder for me to trust you when you say "I roleblocked Haddock and nothing happened, so J Reggie is scum here." It makes me think that when you have a claim that no one can in any way substantiate, I trust you less, not more.

I get that you would aprroach my claim with caution. But if you look at those previous examples, I always claimed because the claim directly benefitted my team. I like to think that I am somewhat good at fakeclaiming. My claim here would kinda make sense as a fakeclaim if it ensured a mafia win... but that seems less than sure. Otherwise, I just put myself in a dangerous position. I get that it could look as though I am Haddock's partner... that would be ballsy play, but yeah I sometimes do that... but in that case, wouldn't it be better to lynch Haddock? And then me? Because Haddock's flip at the very least gives definite information about J Reggie's alignment.

This is the towniest thing you've said today.

Still super hard for me to trust you. It's not your fault that you're good at mafia but it does make you hard to trust. Sorry.

[faust]

I was leaning towards JReggie/Iguana but now I'm having doubts after Iguana's recent posting.

How likely is a team of JReggie + Haddock scum? Where they were defending each other on day two, and then came up with the plan to claim an outlandish supertracker result to create a dichotomy between them, ensuring whichever one wasn't lynched would get away freely?

It does make some more sense considering Haddock is lynchproof. That allows them to draw the fight out longer.

Something that is slightly bothering me is that if J Reggie is scum, wouldn't he still have some power that has something to do with the neighborhood? Like, could the players in the neighborhood be in some sort of danger? On the other hand, if there was such a power, I'd think J Reggie would have used it last night.

[faust]

Still super hard for me to trust you. It's not your fault that you're good at mafia but it does make you hard to trust. Sorry.

Ha. No worries, I get it. You should distrust me. (Though man, this game would be so easy if everyone just trusted me.)

[faust]

I have to figure out what to do with my Cellovix read at some point.

[Cellovix]

I had some concern that he was actually some kind of cultist who wins if everyone alive is in his neighborhood, hence him primarily picking low activity people who are unlikely to get NK'd (Lyle, Chairs, etc).

I know nothing about this site and what kind of roles can fly in RMM games, so it's probably just idle paranoia. 

His target selections just don't make sense to me, and his claimed desire to pick "non threatening" people for the neighborhood likewise doesn't sit right.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 4.2


J Reggie (2): faust, Haddock
faust (1): teamlyle
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (3): Cellovix, iguanaiguana, EFHW

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends 11 am Monday August 14

[faust]

Vote Count 4.2


J Reggie (2): faust, Haddock
faust (3): EFHW, teamlyle, iguanaiguana {L-1}
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (1): Cellovix

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends 11 am Monday August 14

iguana unvoted me. Thank god. Scum might like to quickhammer me. Please don't just put me at L-1 again.

[Haddock]

Vote Count 4.2


J Reggie (2): faust, Haddock
faust (3): EFHW, teamlyle, iguanaiguana {L-1}
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (1): Cellovix

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends 11 am Monday August 14

iguana unvoted me. Thank god. Scum might like to quickhammer me. Please don't just put me at L-1 again.

I think EFHW did too...

[gkrieg13]

Oops.  Sorry, I forgot to search unvote after searching vote:  The votecount has been corrected!

[Cellovix]

I have to figure out what to do with my Cellovix read at some point.

I recommend just town reading me, since, I'm town!

More seriously, who could I even be scum with? Objectively I don't think I make sense with JReggie or Haddock given how I've interacted with them this game.  I can't be scum with Iguana.  I don't think I can be scum with EFHW, because Cron tracked chairs doing nothing N1, and Reggie would be town in that scenario, so his claim would be true.  Maybe we're secretly buddies and this is our elaborate plan.

[faust]

Considering all this, Cellovix comes across as townier. I think he could have gotten away with the hammer. I have to check how long I've actually been at L-1.

...

Yeah, I was never actually at L-1. And EFHW unvoted too. I guess there's nothing in this.

PPE: 3

[Cellovix]

@Haddock

From your perspective, JReggie is confirmed scum.  Who is scum with him, and why?  If you've done that analysis already would you mind pointing me to it?

[faust]

I have to figure out what to do with my Cellovix read at some point.

I recommend just town reading me, since, I'm town!

More seriously, who could I even be scum with? Objectively I don't think I make sense with JReggie or Haddock given how I've interacted with them this game.  I can't be scum with Iguana.  I don't think I can be scum with EFHW, because Cron tracked chairs doing nothing N1, and Reggie would be town in that scenario, so his claim would be true.  Maybe we're secretly buddies and this is our elaborate plan.

Well I thought you made sense as Jan's partner. I haven't given a lot of thought to whether you make sense as J Reggie's partner. It bothered me a little that you were invited to the neighborhood.

About the chairs targeting thing: I'm not sure that's really much of a tell. Scum can always not target someone, and well if J Reggie is right, then we'd already know that he didn't do the nightkill that night. Otherwise, it's some indication because everyone who didn't perform the nightkill is less likely to be scum, but it could always have been his partner. Or maybe he has some Ninja power. I feel like the evidence is too weak to get anything definite from this.

[iguanaiguana]

Still super hard for me to trust you. It's not your fault that you're good at mafia but it does make you hard to trust. Sorry.

Ha. No worries, I get it. You should distrust me. (Though man, this game would be so easy if everyone just trusted me.)

Feeling nostalgic? 

[Cellovix]

JReggie claimed he forgot to submit an action and it was randomized, I believe.

I should probably do a breakdown of what has happened in there for you and Iguana, since JReggie is on table to be lynched today possibly.

[faust]

JReggie claimed he forgot to submit an action and it was randomized, I believe.

I should probably do a breakdown of what has happened in there for you and Iguana, since JReggie is on table to be lynched today possibly.

I would like to see that.

[teamlyle]

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game.

@faust I'm pretty sure this is called a guilt trip...

[iguanaiguana]

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game.

@faust I'm pretty sure this is called a guilt trip...

Teamlyle, how's this for a guilt trip? You can make up any past backstabbing you did to me by just voting for whoever Cellovix decides we should vote for.

[teamlyle]

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game.

@faust I'm pretty sure this is called a guilt trip...

Teamlyle, how's this for a guilt trip? You can make up any past backstabbing you did to me by just voting for whoever Cellovix decides we should vote for.

I'm sorry I backstabbed you. I'll explain everything after I get voted out or at final tribal, whichever comes sooner. Honestly since I'm a big survivor fan I see backstabbing and think it's the way the game should be played, but I sincerely apologize if me backstabbing you in this instance went beyond the game.

With regards to voting with Cellovix, I'm fine with that since we aren't at LyLo yet given only 2 scum. If we lynch wrong we still have a chance I think.

[iguanaiguana]

Well uh I am, because your carefree attitude is losing us the game.

@faust I'm pretty sure this is called a guilt trip...

Teamlyle, how's this for a guilt trip? You can make up any past backstabbing you did to me by just voting for whoever Cellovix decides we should vote for.

I'm sorry I backstabbed you. I'll explain everything after I get voted out or at final tribal, whichever comes sooner. Honestly since I'm a big survivor fan I see backstabbing and think it's the way the game should be played, but I sincerely apologize if me backstabbing you in this instance went beyond the game.

With regards to voting with Cellovix, I'm fine with that since we aren't at LyLo yet given only 2 scum. If we lynch wrong we still have a chance I think.

I have no bad feelings at all! I just think Cellovix has very good reads, and is town, so he makes a great person to sheep. Whereas you I think are also town, but I don't trust your reads as much, no offense.

So let's see what Cellovix does and follow his lead!

[iguanaiguana]

I just used the guilt trip think as leveraging.

It was probably a dumb thing to do. 

[Cellovix]

QT Breakdown:

It started off with JReggie demanding Lyle claim his role with his first post.  Lyle guilelessly obliged, claiming that he's a vanilla sidekick.  JReggie calls the claim believable, and talks up the utility of the QT.

Lyle talks a bit about his mafia experience (which he also mentioned in the thread I believe).

JReggie talks about the potential of someone to have power stealing abilities in the game, and advocates that people in the chat reveal who did it if they killed JReggie and got his mandatory power.  (Note: this is one of the things I was lightly town reading JReggie for, because of the thought process he'd have thinking about getting night killed)

Then comes the bit that I'm having trouble shaking, where he asks for thoughts on who to pick that night. He wanted someone "non threatening", and explicitly mentioned myself, Cron and Haddock.  He also mentioned having a town read on RR (which, duh, since this was after the claim and lynch I believe).

He considers neighborising RR, but then worries that RR will redirect away from himself (Note: Does scum who worries about this kill RR N1?), but then theorizes it could be useful to know who RR redirected to regardless.

They eventually settle on Haddock.  Haddock joins, but then says he does not trust Lyle, and won't be posting much.

Lyle talks about how people shouldn't trust him just because he's a newb (Note: another thing that makes me strongly town read him)

They talk about Lyle sharing a QT with Seprix, and Haddock comes around since he town reads Seprix and Reggie.

Haddock asks them for their thoughts on other players, and cites scum reads on myself and Cron, but hedges with acknowledgement that there could be an OMGUS component.

There was minimal activity as D2 neared end and ended. 

Then reactions to the end of day, which had Reggie scum reading you (Faust), and Haddock considering that he could be wrong about one of Faust or Silver.

JReggie then says he added someone, but won't say who it is.  (Spoiler: it ends up being Chairs/EFHW!)

EFHW pops in, and claims she targeted Faust the previous night. I think Chairs made that action given the wording, before the replace happened.

Haddock claims not to be happy with the Chairs/EFHW pick as they're totally null to him.

There was very little activity on D3, with them being confused over Haddock's lynch and no subsequent no alignment reveal.  Speculation happens as to lynchproof or janitor.

Lyle can't imagine that they'd make an unlynchable scum.

EHFW says it happens sometimes as a one shot, especially SK's.

Some discussion is had about the next recruit.  JReggie does not want to add you (Faust). 

I join!  Activity picks up from here.

I remark on your claim, saying that if you're telling the truth, it makes it very likely Reggie is scum and Haddock town, with Iguana or EFHW as Reggie's partners if Faust is town.

I commented that I followed up with those thoughts in the thread, and talked about why Faust/Iguana isn't something that I think can exist, citing your end of day two attempt to hammer him at the last second.

I clarify with EFHW about the timing of her reveal that she targeted Faust, and Reggie claiming that she did so.  She responds saying that Reggie claimed she targeted Faust after she claimed it, so it was not knowledge he knew for certain (Note: This could be relevant, as it's possible he's just making the entire thing up, as he did not know who EFHW targeted until after she claimed it).

I muse over your claim and Fontisian's role, that they seem to be fairly similar in nature, asking about the likelihood of them co-existing as town.

EFHW talks about disagreeing with almost everything you've done/said this game, and that you've contradicted yourself on occasion. 

I ask her to cite examples, as I don't have a strong read on you, and want to evaluate it myself.

Talk about the extra N2 kill is had.  I contemplate it coming from you, where you were vanillaized N1, kill Seprix and absorb him N2, use his ability N3.  Your 1554 is cited, not liking dismissing things as speculation.

Forums go down.  Many times. Consternation is had.

EFHW talks about the contradictions which I think she's said in the thread. Notably dismissing setup spec, while using it yourself.  Talking about how scummy JReggie is, despite having him as strong town.  Saying not to make assumptions while making assumptions, etc.

Talk about whether your flavor and claim mesh is discussed.

I talk about the possibility of JReggie being scum, and ask him questions that never get answered.

EFHW thinks Haddock would post more in QT as town.  I agree that it's odd he isn't.

We talk about Iguana a bit, noting that he's been fairly under the radar, but that his play would be odd as scum.

Then there's been silence since then, as we stopped talking while forums were down, and haven't resumed since.

Only 70something posts in the QT, it has not been super active by my expectations/standards.









 

[teamlyle]

I have no bad feelings at all! I just think Cellovix has very good reads, and is town, so he makes a great person to sheep. Whereas you I think are also town, but I don't trust your reads as much, no offense.

So let's see what Cellovix does and follow his lead!

Thanks for not being mad at me

You make a good point. Since I'm new to the forums I don't have much experience with reads and I'm also less familiar with the behavior of specific people. I guess we'll just wait for Cellovix now 

[teamlyle]

Oops nevermind

[Cellovix]

The biggest takeaway from it for me, at least, is why Reggie picked who he did, and why he wanted to pick non-threatening players, whatever that means.

He picked relatively inactive people, and then proceeded to barely use the QT.

Haddock has also been really quiet in it.

EFHW has felt really town in it, for reasons that are hard to express. Tone? Genuinely trying to solve? Echoing similar thoughts that I had, when I had them?

[teamlyle]

Oops nevermind

I didn't see that Cellovix has already posted

[iguanaiguana]

So.... lynch Reggie?

[iguanaiguana]

Except... Faust and Haddock are the other scummy people in my book and both of them want us to choose J Reggie......... blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Cellovix]

I paraphrased as much as possible, since quoting directly is presumably not kosher.  But a decision needs to be made on JReggie today, and it's additional information that needed to be public.

[Cellovix]

Not going to rush into a decision, I'd like Reggie to respond to my question and talk about his thought process in picking who he did, and what he wanted to accomplish with the neighborhood.

I still think Haddock has been pretty scummy, but Faust roleblocking him N2, but nothing happening doesn't really mesh very well with JReggie's claim.

[Cellovix]

I won't be around rest of day most likely, and maybe not tomorrow, but I'll have a ton of free time coming up later in the week.

Might try to do some re-reading on my phone, but posting on it is a miserable experience.

[J Reggie]

Cellovix: by non-threatening, I think I meant people who most likely weren't scum. Or wouldn't take over the cutie or use the info to hurt us.

[J Reggie]

I have a feeling that if we lynch me today, scum has a way to win, since Faust and haddock seem perfectly happy to vote for me knowing I'll flip town. So please don't lynch me if you are town and want to win.

[iguanaiguana]

I have a feeling that if we lynch me today, scum has a way to win, since Faust and haddock seem perfectly happy to vote for me knowing I'll flip town. So please don't lynch me if you are town and want to win.

Can you take the time to answer questions about your motivations that you haven't answered yet?

[J Reggie]

So I had this idea when I first got my results, but it was all jumbled in my head and didn't really make sense at the time. Now I think I have it figured out.

I think scum planned for haddock to make both kills N2. I had claimed an investigative role that I could use on my neighborhood. Scum didn't want to kill me because then people would assume someone from my neighborhood was scum. So haddock was basically caught if I was proven to be town. His best shot was too make me look like scum and set up a 1v1.

There are several benefits for scum to haddock performing both kills. If I had had a straight cop role, haddock would be caught anyway, so any further investigation on him would be moot and just prove the point. If I was just a straight tracker/follower/whatever, that would be pretty underpowered, but I would still have caught haddock. That's a risk they were willing to take. If I was able to track through multiple days, I would have seen that haddock targeted RR night one, and would have caught him anyway. The fact that he made all the kills gives more power to his argument that my claim was "too convenient". Plus, haddock being lynched wasn't the worst thing for scum, since he was able to survive.

Now before people start saying "how could haddock have made two kills in one night?" let me say that it's not unheard of. I made two kills in one night as scum with haddock in Fruit Ninja.

Also, a word of advice from outside of the game, which I am currently being informed of:
"Meow!" -- my cat.

[iguanaiguana]

Now before people start saying "how could haddock have made two kills in one night?" let me say that it's not unheard of. I made two kills in one night as scum with haddock in Fruit Ninja.

Also, a word of advice from outside of the game, which I am currently being informed of:
"Meow!" -- my cat.

As I said before, I am pretty sure that one person made both of those kills, and that they were targeted by a motivator. My role PM states the existence of a motivator in this game, who I assume is now dead.

[iguanaiguana]

So I think the only real question is whether you or Haddock made the kills, and then also who is scum with you/haddock.

J Reggie, who do you think the third scum could be?

[J Reggie]

So I think the only real question is whether you or Haddock made the kills, and then also who is scum with you/haddock.

J Reggie, who do you think the third scum could be?

Why do you think there are three scum left? Or do you mean including Jan? Because I've made it pretty obvious that I'm convinced the remaining scum are haddock and Faust.

[iguanaiguana]

Any thoughts on EFHW/Cellovix?

[teamlyle]

So let's see what Cellovix does and follow his lead!

Sorry to interrupt the conversation here but unvote

[EFHW]

Now before people start saying "how could haddock have made two kills in one night?" let me say that it's not unheard of. I made two kills in one night as scum with haddock in Fruit Ninja.

Also, a word of advice from outside of the game, which I am currently being informed of:
"Meow!" -- my cat.

As I said before, I am pretty sure that one person made both of those kills, and that they were targeted by a motivator. My role PM states the existence of a motivator in this game, who I assume is now dead.

Seriously?  Somehow I missed that.  Why haven't you brought it up again before? 

[EFHW]

This changes a lot.  I wish someone had corrected me when I said there couldn't have been two nk's! I said it in thread and in the qt. This makes Haddock look worse.  I don't have time right now to check vote counts, but I'm looking at returning to that wagon.

[faust]

Now before people start saying "how could haddock have made two kills in one night?" let me say that it's not unheard of. I made two kills in one night as scum with haddock in Fruit Ninja.

Also, a word of advice from outside of the game, which I am currently being informed of:
"Meow!" -- my cat.

As I said before, I am pretty sure that one person made both of those kills, and that they were targeted by a motivator. My role PM states the existence of a motivator in this game, who I assume is now dead.

Interesting theory. But I think a Motivator usually doesn't work on factional abilities.

[faust]

I guess Haddock could be some sort of Serial Killer... it would work for them.

On another note though: None of the roles flipped so far reads "Motivator" to me. If we still have a living motivator who has targeted Haddock, it's probably worth it to claim.

Thinking about the SK!Haddock theory... it doesn't really make sense with his play.

[faust]

So I think the only real question is whether you or Haddock made the kills, and then also who is scum with you/haddock.

J Reggie, who do you think the third scum could be?

Why do you think there are three scum left? Or do you mean including Jan? Because I've made it pretty obvious that I'm convinced the remaining scum are haddock and Faust.

This is just your OMGUS. Though my play in retrospective makes more sense than I originally thought, considering Haddock was lynchproof. Still, other stuff.

[faust]

Cellovix: by non-threatening, I think I meant people who most likely weren't scum. Or wouldn't take over the cutie or use the info to hurt us.

Wait. So you supposedly have a power that can catch scum among the people in your neighborhood... and you try to invite people who are not scum? In what kind of twisted parallel universe does that make sense?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 4.3


J Reggie (2): faust, Haddock
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (4): Cellovix, iguanaiguana, EFHW, teamlyle

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 4 ends 11 am Monday August 15

[faust]

So I think the only real question is whether you or Haddock made the kills, and then also who is scum with you/haddock.

J Reggie, who do you think the third scum could be?

Why do you think there are three scum left? Or do you mean including Jan? Because I've made it pretty obvious that I'm convinced the remaining scum are haddock and Faust.

This is just your OMGUS. Though my play in retrospective makes more sense than I originally thought, considering Haddock was lynchproof. Still, other stuff.

"makes more sense as scum", that should read.

[Haddock]

Catching up.

@Haddock

From your perspective, JReggie is confirmed scum.  Who is scum with him, and why?  If you've done that analysis already would you mind pointing me to it?

I hadn't done this.  Now I'm back I'll do it.

My general reads shape at the moment is (scummiest to towniest)

Reggie

Cellovix
faust
EFHW
iguana

lyle

So the possible partner pairings are
Reggie/Cellovix
Reggie/faust
Reggie/EFHW
Reggie/iguana

Well, I think Cello could make sense as Reggie's partner - if Cello bussed Jan, his fairly even-handed approach to Reggie fits.

Reggie/faust seems a bit unlikely given faust's play today.  And faust doesn't read like scum-scum,he reads like an SK (the existence of which is looking less likely as now we have more nights with only 1 kill).

EFHW doesn't really fit to me. With Reggie pushing me crazy hard, scum!EFHW would probably avoid pushing me at all.

So, yeah, Cello or iguana.  Of those, Cellovix is scummier by a margin.

So let's see what Cellovix does and follow his lead!

Grah.  Get a grip, guys.  Deciding to autosheep someone at this stage?  No.  It's like you're treating Cello as an IC, which - he's nowhere close.  If you're going to sheep anyone it should be lyle; not that I'm condoning autosheeping anyone right now.

Haddock has also been really quiet in it.

Duh.  I posted there quite a bit until Reggie made it clear he was scum.  Of course I haven't posted there since; why would I?  I'm reading it though.

I think scum planned for haddock ...

Why would scum!me have any idea that your supposed investigative power was in any way linked to your neighbourhood?  No way does scum predict this.

As I said before, I am pretty sure that one person made both of those kills, and that they were targeted by a motivator. My role PM states the existence of a motivator in this game, who I assume is now dead.

I still think you may be reading your role wrong.  I think there's a good chance that someone like Hiro (Seprix?) had a power that made your power work, but could only "motivate" you rather than being an actual motivator.  faust is right that none of the flipped roles look anything like motivator to me. 

Did I already mention my silver theory?  I think he is probably responsible for one of the N2 kills.  "Psychotic Dual Personality" sounds a lot like an odd/even night killing ability of some kind.

[J Reggie]

Cellovix: by non-threatening, I think I meant people who most likely weren't scum. Or wouldn't take over the cutie or use the info to hurt us.

Wait. So you supposedly have a power that can catch scum among the people in your neighborhood... and you try to invite people who are not scum? In what kind of twisted parallel universe does that make sense?

I'm pretty dumb, I guess. I wasn't really expecting to catch scum; I was more expecting to give my neighborhood buddies a sort of clear (as should be obvious from what I said D2 about my power). Turns out I did catch scum, and Yay I guess, except no one believes me so boo.

[J Reggie]

Why would scum!me have any idea that your supposed investigative power was in any way linked to your neighbourhood?  No way does scum predict this.

I said that my investigative power was for people in my neighborhood. Again, read my D2.

[Haddock]

Why would scum!me have any idea that your supposed investigative power was in any way linked to your neighbourhood?  No way does scum predict this.

I said that my investigative power was for people in my neighborhood. Again, read my D2.

You did?  I don't remember that.

[EFHW]

Iguana, please clarify your role as much as possible without quoting. This is really important.

[iguanaiguana]

Iguana, please clarify your role as much as possible without quoting. This is really important.

I have in the past.

I have two abilities.

The first one is like, if the motivator targets you, you get to be fancy and travel back in time to do some secret stuffs.

The second one is top secret nachos.

[faust]

Cellovix: by non-threatening, I think I meant people who most likely weren't scum. Or wouldn't take over the cutie or use the info to hurt us.

Wait. So you supposedly have a power that can catch scum among the people in your neighborhood... and you try to invite people who are not scum? In what kind of twisted parallel universe does that make sense?

I'm pretty dumb, I guess. I wasn't really expecting to catch scum; I was more expecting to give my neighborhood buddies a sort of clear (as should be obvious from what I said D2 about my power). Turns out I did catch scum, and Yay I guess, except no one believes me so boo.

Except there is no result you could get that would clear someone. And you apparently thought that your power was good enough to act purposefully scummy. This story doesn't add up.

[EFHW]

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

[Haddock]

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

I really want to ask iguana whether the word "Motivator" is actually used (and whether it's capitalised) - but would that be mod-quoting?

I still think silver is responsible for that 2nd kill.  Anyone want to actually comment on that theory?

[EFHW]

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

I really want to ask iguana whether the word "Motivator" is actually used (and whether it's capitalised) - but would that be mod-quoting?

I still think silver is responsible for that 2nd kill.  Anyone want to actually comment on that theory?

I said the same in the qt.

[Haddock]

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

I really want to ask iguana whether the word "Motivator" is actually used (and whether it's capitalised) - but would that be mod-quoting?

I still think silver is responsible for that 2nd kill.  Anyone want to actually comment on that theory?

I said the same in the qt.

About silver?  I must have missed you mentioning that. I just Ctrl+F'd "silver" and couldn't find you mentioning him, which admittedly is not the best search process ever.

I see Cello saying he reckons silver wouldn't have vigged either of them.  There may be some validity to that, I should have a look at silver's reads.
We should take into account that "Dual Personality" may mean something stronger than just odd/even night ability.  It could be odd/even night alignment changing.  Which would explain a weird kill from silver AND his failure to claim responsibility. 

[faust]

I still think silver is responsible for that 2nd kill.  Anyone want to actually comment on that theory?

Looking back at silver's reaction to the nightkills:

stupid green.

I'm guessing a town vig shot Seprix?  Should we have them claim the kill?  Was a very poor shot regardless with him and Lyle confirming each other as town.

why would a vig shoot seprix? Isn't cron the more likely vig target?

Well, I can definitely see these posts coming from someone who knows he's responsible for Cron's death.

But I think silver asked for a vig claim at some point. Let me check.

I found this:

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

Yeah, I don't think silver posts this if he thinks he's responsible for the second nightkill.

[Haddock]

I found this:

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

Yeah, I don't think silver posts this if he thinks he's responsible for the second nightkill.

Hmm.  You're probably.  I mean maybe he does that if I'm right in my wild guess that he's variable-alignment.  But that's a stretch I guess.

[Haddock]

I found this:

What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.

Yeah, I don't think silver posts this if he thinks he's responsible for the second nightkill.

Hmm.  You're probably right.  I mean maybe he does that if I'm right in my wild guess that he's variable-alignment.  But that's a stretch I guess.

FTFM

[iguanaiguana]

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

I mean, I have been assuming that there is/was a motivator, and when he targeted someone he let them perform an action twice, except in special cases for this RMM there are/were some people like me who had to be targeted by the motivator to do anything at all.

This is not a crazy stretch.

It's also almost completely irrelevant to the current lynch.

[J Reggie]

Why am I the only one voting haddock right now?

[faust]

I'll try to organize my thoughts and give an exhaustive case for J Reggie being scum. Let's go!

1) J Reggie and the Jan wagon
Okay, this basically starts out with RR's claim. He is voting for RR already, then continues to do so after he claimed some stuff. He does some pretty bad case about how we should lynch RR regardless of alignment. After Jan says something, he immediately backs off both of them. This is what scum wants, because it keeps Jan alive. This is followed by a lot of posts that don't talk about Jan/RR at all. Distracting from the situation at hand. He doesn't take a stance on Jan/RR until the day is over.

2) The claim, and timing
He claims the first part, the neighborhood, after the alternate wagon, Cron, has claimed an investigative power. He claims some additional power then, which serves to keep scum!him alive for at least one more night. Then comes the next day. I put some pressure on J Reggie:

I hope J Reggie used his claimed investigative power. Otherwise let's lynch him.

So maybe he thought he had to claim something. He waits for EFHW and teamlyle to claim their stuff, then, at the ideal point in time, claim his "results" without there being the option for teamlyle or EFHW to confirm anything. Pretty darn convenient.

3) Cron's role
Cron has claimed Tracker, and now J Reggie claims another Tracker variant. I mean, there are a lot of possible investigative powers to use; mods don't usually use the same one twice.

4) Playing scummy on purpose
Just to make things clear, there's very rarely a situation where that's a good idea. I ask him where he was scummy on purpose, and he just points me to things that people happened to find scummy, and gives no specifics. I think that if you're really trying to play scummy, you'll be able to give a more detailed overview of what you did to appear scummy than this.

5) Post-claim behaviour
This is more subjective I guess. But I feel like J Reggie has no intention to scumhunt whatsoever. He just has tunnel vision on Haddock (understandable with his claimed result) and me (?) and doesn't even for the shortest time consider anyone else. This becomes clear during D3. Yet, on D4, he randomly tries to make a wagon on someone else in the neighborhood stick, because he's afraid that he won't win against Haddock.

6) J Reggie's night actions
So we are to believe that J Reggie thought his role powerful enough to warrant scummy play. That means he expected to get valuable alignment information. Everyone knows that no Tracker result can clear a player as town (unless there's only one scum left, or something). So he should have tried to find scum. but he didn't apparent. This makes no sense.

I wasn't really expecting to catch scum; I was more expecting to give my neighborhood buddies a sort of clear (as should be obvious from what I said D2 about my power). Turns out I did catch scum, and Yay I guess, except no one believes me so boo.

This is his response: He wasn't really expecting to catch scum. Note that this contradicts an earlier post of his:

I targeted teamlyle because he's new and might slip up as scum.

7) Haddock is town
THis would probably warrant a case on its own, but really look at how he treated the Jan wagon. Look at my result. Consider the fact that we know that he has a non-targeting PR and yet J Reggie claims that he targeted 2 people in the same night.

[Cellovix]

Test.

[iguanaiguana]

es!

[Cellovix]

Aha! Access.  Stupid phone.

I like Faust's case.  I've re-read Reggie's posts this game, and re-read the neighborhood QT, and I just don't think he acted in a way that's consistent with town that has the role he claimed.  He intentionally picked quiet players who wouldn't contribute (and therefore, wouldn't catch him) for the QT, demanded a claim from Lyle in his first post in the QT, and despite talking up how useful it'd be made no attempt to make any use out of it. He discussed almost zero game content in there.

I don't think Haddock can be scum if Faust is town, so we're either looking at Haddock and Faust both being scum, or Occam's Razor just points straight at JReggie, in addition to his behavior.

(Wagons!)

Vote: Jreggie

[Cellovix]

OK Haddock, I'll be nice to you.  If you will vote:EFHW, then you might be town.  Otherwise, you're 100% conf!scum, no turning back.  Think about this one. 

This is the post that really swayed me over to voting JReggie here: It seems like a blatant attempt to chain mislynches. If he thinks Haddock is the scum, he never tries to get his top scum read to vote someone else with him.  That just makes no sense whatsoever.

[Cellovix]

I have no clue who the other scum is though.  Lyle is an IC, EFHW has been pretty town, Iguana has been really town today, I don't...think Faust and JReggie make sense together. It'd be kind of hilarious if it's literally both Haddock and JReggie.

[Cellovix]

That's a problem for tomorrow anyways, maybe I'll get lucky and be NK'd so I don't have to think about it.

[J Reggie]

I'd like to take a moment to apologize to town. We are going to lose when I get mislynched. I guess I should have been more towny from the start. I'm pretty sure I have the game figured out and we'd win with no problem if town would just listen to me. But scum have played a pretty good game I guess, and I haven't really. I've made my cases against Faust and haddock. Yes, there are some inconsistencies in my play style and that's allowed Faust to open up the door and make a case on me. I have a feeling that Faust and haddock have a way to win tonight and that's why they're going out on a limb to secure my lynch.

The good news is, I'm a new player and this is a learning experience. It's too bad it had to result in scum winning a game town could have easily won, but sometimes that's how it is. I guess this is your guys' last chance to come back and win the game for us, but I don't blame you if you don't.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: J Reggie

That's what we call a hammer, my first one ever. Hope you guys are right.

[Cellovix]

Man. I'm a sucker for that kind of appeal to emotion.  I know that's the entire point of it, but it still resonates with me.

[faust]

That last minute AtE makes me more confident. Not that I was unconfident before.

However if I'm wrong, this will so blow up in my face. So please just flip scum.

[Cellovix]

I think we're right.  That post feels deliberately manipulative, and I don't think he makes it as town.  There'd be more anger, more fire, more righteous indignation.

[faust]

Oh, and, nice wagon!

[iguanaiguana]

So, what, it was Faust/Haddock as scum, and Cellovix is even night the serial killer who got roleblocked last night?

That'd be my luck!

[Cellovix]

I haven't been a SK in five years, I remain ever hopeful that one day...

[faust]

So, what, it was Faust/Haddock as scum, and Cellovix is even night the serial killer who got roleblocked last night?

That'd be my luck!

I'm pretty sure that would mean Haddock/me just lose. So we can both be happy that it's not the case.

[faust]

I haven't been a SK in five years, I remain ever hopeful that one day...

I know the feeling, man.

[faust]

Flippityflipflip!

[Haddock]

YES. 
That's a good choice, guys.  Right decision.

Still not sure I'm 100% happy with iguana just sheeping Cellovix whatever, but the end result is what counts.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 4.final


J Reggie (4): faust, Haddock, Cellovix, iguanaiguana
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (2): EFHW, teamlyle

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. 

[iguanaiguana]

YES. 
That's a good choice, guys.  Right decision.

Still not sure I'm 100% happy with iguana just sheeping Cellovix whatever, but the end result is what counts.

It wasn't 100% sheeping. I trusted his reads a lot, and was reading and considering his analysis, which was good and made a lot of sense. So I expect him to have better judgment than me, and therefore if I am right about him being town, then we have a better winrate if the two of us work together than if we don't.

[faust]

I do wonder where Reggie's partner would be in this votecount. EFHW doesn't look too good, but then maybe they'd want to bus.

[gkrieg13]

Nathan was now running to catch up with the killer.  Many questions were flowing through his head.  He was thinking of all of the claims everyone had put forth and was trying to put together the pieces in his head.

He was also asking the question, "How many are left in this crime ring?"

As he turned the corner, he found that he was in the same room, with the same people, arguing again.

He listened intently to both sides of the argument, but everyone was talking very quickly.  As they all looked at each other, the tension in the room was palpable. 

"I think it was J Reggie!", shouted one out of the crowd.

"It wasn't me, it was Haddock!", he shouted back.

The group was growing increasingly more hostile towards J Reggie, until they chose by majority to lynch him.

J Reggie has been lynched!

He was Noah Bennet, The Company Man

N4 Begins now and ends on Thursday August 11, 2 pm. 

Night actions due in 24 hours.

THREAD LOCKED!

[gkrieg13]

The night will end one hour after the submission deadline now.  Tomorrow at 3 pm

[gkrieg13]

After the last incident, Nathan just didn't know where to turn.  How were they still getting away with this?  How were Evos still dying?  Why can't he figure out who is responsible.

Immediately he received another call.  When he hung up the phone, his face was white.  Ando, friend of Hiro Nakamura, had just been kidnapped!

This was the final straw.  He knew he didn't have much time left at this point.  He needed to stop these people before they took down every last Evo.

teamlyle has died in the night!  He was Ando, the Vanillaized Sidekick

Day 5 begins now!

THREAD UNLOCKED

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 5.0


Not Voting (5): EFHW, faust, Haddock, Cellovix, iguanaiguana

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.  Day 5 ends Saturday August 20 at 1 pm

[faust]

Meep. At least it's not game over. But I feel that I will have a hard time convincing everyone that I'm town.

First things first though: Vote: Haddock

[faust]

Is there a reason to not lynch Haddock...? Let's see:

- there's a SK: well, uh, then it's 3 scum, 2 town. I think in that scenario it's in our interest to force a 1-1 standoff
- there's multiple scum teams: Then we'd probably have even more scum. Which would mean I'm the last town player. That would be kind of hilarious.

[faust]

The only way for Haddock to be town is that EFHW is scum and did like 4 targetings. Which is pretty much impossible because she didn't target anyone N1.

But, for completeness's sake, unvote, and I'd ask EFHW to claim.

[faust]

We need a mass claim anyway at this point.

[faust]

And since I'm clearly the towniest player around, and also because I have already claimed, let me propose an order:

Cellovix
EFHW
iguana

[faust]

I cannot help but notice that this Day started 45 minutes early. Is this why noone is here? I have so much need to talk to someone.

[faust]

I just reread the end of D2. Man, Cellovix sure has some confusing interactions.

Haddock pushes iguana and Cellovix there. If you believe in no bussing at that point, that would make EFHW his partner.

However, he only really busses Cellovix for a grand total of 7 minutes. It might just be distancing.

iguana is clearly the most towny player alive.

[faust]

I briefly considered that EFHW might have somehow a power that can target 4 players at the same time, and she might have used that N2. But no, one target was RR, right? And he died N1. So that's not possible. Thus, it really seems that Cron and J Reggie's claims together confirm Haddock as lying.

Cron was also unredirectable IIRC. And Reggie's power was non-targeting. So unless Reggie could somehow see Ninja!EFHW, it's a lie. I don't think that explanation is consistent with the Ninja role.

Okay, I have convinced myself, back to Vote: Haddock. Thanks for listening.

[faust]

Also scratch the massclaim. No need to give scum more info than necessary.

[faust]

A fast lynch will probably totally screw with gkrieg's time management. Sorry gkrieg. Maybe you can find someone to help modding while you're unavailable.

[faust]

Interesting sidenote: teamlyle dying means scum is more worried about losing this game during the day than about losing it at night. Which probably means they don't have this in the bag after a Haddock lynch, because that would be easy enough to achieve.

[Haddock]

The only way for Haddock to be town is that EFHW is scum and did like 4 targetings. Which is pretty much impossible because she didn't target anyone N1.

But, for completeness's sake, unvote, and I'd ask EFHW to claim.

Yeah vote: EFHW.

I don't know how on earth Reggie ever turned out to be town but that's the only possibility!
Maybe Reggie misunderstood his results and he was seeing which people targetted people in the neighbourhood?

[gkrieg13]

A fast lynch will probably totally screw with gkrieg's time management. Sorry gkrieg. Maybe you can find someone to help modding while you're unavailable.

Don't worry about this.  We just might have some even crappier flavor if that happens!

[EFHW]

Vote: Haddock.  The only reasonable thing to do.  If he's town, then scum played a great game. That's L-1

[faust]

Vote: Haddock.  The only reasonable thing to do.  If he's town, then scum played a great game. That's L-1

I think "if he's town, then scum got incredibly lucky" is the better way to phrase it.

[faust]

But he's not town. If he was, he wouldn't make such a half-assed entrance into the deciding Day of the game.

[Haddock]

Vote: Haddock.  The only reasonable thing to do.  If he's town, then scum played a great game. That's L-1

Gimme a break.  Look at this - already setting up for the backlash when I'm yet another mislynch.

[Haddock]

Guys, I've been doing my absolute best ever since I got back from Germany.  I've been hunting with the best of them, and even the god-of-scumhunting faust had the same reads as me. 
Please don't make this mistake.  I'm town!

[faust]

Vote: Haddock.  The only reasonable thing to do.  If he's town, then scum played a great game. That's L-1

Gimme a break.  Look at this - already setting up for the backlash when I'm yet another mislynch.

Hmm, that makes sense. Setting up for the backlash for after scum wins.

I haven't decided yet what's more futile - discussing with you or with people on the RSP forum. I'll keep alternating.

[faust]

Sorry if that came across kinda mean. I am just certain that you are scum to the point where I'll dismiss anything you say.

[Cellovix]

L-1 acknowledged.

And ignored.

There's a lot I want to say, but it's best left for tomorrow.  Anything Haddock says is purely WiFOM, and we don't want to inform the night kill.

Vote: Haddock

[Haddock]

Yeah, you got me.  Not by best scum game ever.

Good luck to my remaining scumbuddies!

[faust]

Yeah, you got me.  Not by best scum game ever.

Good luck to my remaining scumbuddies!

Don't use plural just to scare us!

I think you did fine considering the position you were put into.

[iguanaiguana]

Not fair to lynch Haddock before I even log on.

[faust]

Not fair to lynch Haddock before I even log on.

You got to hammer last time. Don't be greedy!

[iguanaiguana]

I just reread the end of D2. Man, Cellovix sure has some confusing interactions.

Haddock pushes iguana and Cellovix there. If you believe in no bussing at that point, that would make EFHW his partner.

However, he only really busses Cellovix for a grand total of 7 minutes. It might just be distancing.

iguana is clearly the most towny player alive.

Thanks for setting up my night kill, ScumGod 

[EFHW]

Yeah, you got me.  Not by best scum game ever.

Good luck to my remaining scumbuddies!

Thanks for telling us! I always hate waiting for the flip. You got J Reggie lynched ahead of you, so seems like you did fine.

[iguanaiguana]

Just for the record, here is my full claim.

I have two abilities:

1) One shot commuter. I used it last night, because I was quite afraid that scum had a forced win involving killing both me and another person, and wanted to prevent it. Hopefully, I did. Because now I can't use it tonight.

2) I can go back into the past and watch one person on any night in the past that I choose, if the motivator targets me. But they never did.

I expect to die and have no way to prevent it anymore, and since my role information doesn't flip with me, I wanted you guys to know what I did so you can consider it in your final analysis of the game.

[iguanaiguana]

& my final word shall be,

meh.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 5.final


Haddock (3): faust, EFHW, Cellovix
EFHW (1): Haddock

Not Voting (1): iguanaiguana

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

[gkrieg13]

Nathan knew he would finally find one of them.  He had the feeling that this would be the day.

As he interrogated each of the remaining suspects, Haddock just seemed to jump out!

"I've caught you Haddock!"

"meh, ya you did"

Haddock has been lynched!

He was Adam Monroe, the Evil Hero!

Night 5 begins now and ends in 25 hours.  Please submit your night actions in 24 hours, and state in your QT if you have a problem with the night only being 25 hours

THREAD LOCKED

[gkrieg13]

Nathan was feeling confident that he could finally put a stop to all this.  He felt like he might have already captured all of the perpetrators.

As he was walking down the sidewalk to his work, he felt a sense of joy.  Like he had really made a positive change in the world.

As he was thinking about all of the joyous things in the world, a black, windowless van pulled up right in front of him, a body was rolled out of the door, and the van screeched away.

He ran to the body to see that it was EFHW.  There was a note attached.

If you want to stop us, you have very little time...

Nathan knew that time was short, and that he would need to be quick to stop this crime ring once and for all.

EFHW has died in the night!  She was Mohinder Suresh, the Scientist

Day 6 begins now

THREAD UNLOCKED

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 6.0

Not Voting (3): faust, Cellovix, iguanaiguana

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.  Day 6 ends at 4 pm on Sunday, August 21

[iguanaiguana]

lol

[iguanaiguana]

So, which one of you is the scum?

[iguanaiguana]

Welp, here's what's up.

I have the weekend off, then I am working Monday-Saturday next week. I need to figure this out before then, probably on the weekend.

So I guess I'll be doing two targeted rereads, one of Faust and one of Cellovix. Maybe I'll split them up Saturday/Sunday.

Then prolly after that I'll let thing stew a bit and figure out what I think about what I think.

and try to cast a vote sometime in the evening.

Dear other town, which one are you?

I shall do my best to find out!

[faust]

Hm, so I was right all along?

Or iguana is scum, and the WIFOM is real.

Tell me iguana, what was the point of your claim?

[faust]

This may be my first time ever 3-player LyLo. There was that one game where I made it to 3 alive as Traitor, but that was already decided by then.

[Cellovix]

This may be my first time ever 3-player LyLo. There was that one game where I made it to 3 alive as Traitor, but that was already decided by then.

Likewise for me, although I suspect it'll be happening more as I do this experiment and play on a lot of new sites to me, as I won't get meta shot night one.

[Cellovix]

Welp, here's what's up.

I have the weekend off, then I am working Monday-Saturday next week. I need to figure this out before then, probably on the weekend.

So I guess I'll be doing two targeted rereads, one of Faust and one of Cellovix. Maybe I'll split them up Saturday/Sunday.

Then prolly after that I'll let thing stew a bit and figure out what I think about what I think.

and try to cast a vote sometime in the evening.

Dear other town, which one are you?

I shall do my best to find out!

Similar, I have a fair bit of free time this weekend, which is when I'll be doing at least one full re-read, maybe two.

[Cellovix]

As much as I'm tempted to just snap vote Faust, it almost seems too obvious (yes, I know that's a logical fallacy), so I'll make sure I do my due diligence.

Regardless of which one of you is scum though, I've had fun playing with you both this game.

[iguanaiguana]

Hm, so I was right all along?

Or iguana is scum, and the WIFOM is real.

Tell me iguana, what was the point of your claim?

To incriminate you, mainly.

If you are scum, I believe that it was possible for Haddock and you to win on N5 by getting two kills, thus making your hard defense of each other reasonable play. I wanted to make it clear before I died that I wasn't targetable on N5, meaning that scum could very well have attempted to kill both Teamlyle and I but failed to kill me.

I wanted this evidence to be considered today, and believed I would probably die at night.

Then, uh, someone, probably you, decided not to kill me, I can only assume for the lulz.

[iguanaiguana]

It's my first LyLo too!!

There was that one game (the same one) where I could have won the game for town by targeting Witherweaver instead of you at night, but that doesn't count either.

[Cellovix]

Hm, so I was right all along?

Or iguana is scum, and the WIFOM is real.

Tell me iguana, what was the point of your claim?

To incriminate you, mainly.

If you are scum, I believe that it was possible for Haddock and you to win on N5 by getting two kills, thus making your hard defense of each other reasonable play. I wanted to make it clear before I died that I wasn't targetable on N5, meaning that scum could very well have attempted to kill both Teamlyle and I but failed to kill me.

I wanted this evidence to be considered today, and believed I would probably die at night.

Then, uh, someone, probably you, decided not to kill me, I can only assume for the lulz.

++

Makes sense, good play.  Might have won us the game even.

(Or you could be lying to make it seem like it could have won us the game, but I'm leaning towards the former)

[Cellovix]

Going to claim, since no reason not to at this point. I can use my ability tonight, but it can't impact the game in any way that I can imagine, barring multiple revivals.

I am Emma, the Deaf Doctor.  My ability name is Treat, and I can target a player, protecting them from one kill.  I cannot use my ability on consecutive nights.

Night One: I ended up targeting Silver.  I thought about picking Reggie after the claim and Jan's flip, but I figured he'd be redirecting away from himself, and tried to next-level scum and think of who they'd kill if they avoided him.  Silver was the whole reason I came over to play in this game, as I'm trying to play one game in every community represented in the Mafia Championship series.  (I'm a lot more experienced than I tried to make it seem early on, because I rolled a strong power role and wanted to avoid getting SPK'd), and given he performed well in his qualifying game and made the finals he seemed like a likely SPK on N1 if they were avoiding Reggie.

Night Two: I could not use my ability.

Night Three: I missed end of day, and the night action deadline, unfortunately.  I'm not sure who I'd have targeted there, possibly Silver again, but that might be wishful thinking given I know he died. Sorry!

Night Four: I targeted EFHW.  I decided she was the least likely to be scum with Haddock, and was more likely to produce useful analysis over Lyle or Iguana if alive, given the high level of effort she'd put into posting in the neighbor QuickTopic. There was also her unclaimed role that she targeted Faust with on Night Two, which could have been useful or provided clarity.

Night Five: I could not use my ability

[Cellovix]

You can see my progression on asking Haddock if his role would have stopped the night kill, and not thinking his role could co-exist with mine. 

Which Faust conveniently dismissed.  For innocent reasons no doubt.

Links to me talking about this:

1. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15223.msg624990#msg624990

2. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15223.msg625044#msg625044

3. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15223.msg625565#msg625565

In retrospect I obviously should have just straight up lynched him, but I don't know how RMM is balanced, and Faust's claim dissuaded me.

Iguana's claim is a little weird with mine too, but it's only the chance to stop one kill (I think? I'm not super familiar with Commuter as a role) vs. Haddock claiming he'd always come back after dying.

[faust]

I find the implication that a deaf doctor is somehow worse than a regular one offensive.

I have more to say, about the claim and the game, later today, after work.

[iguanaiguana]

Going to claim, since no reason not to at this point. I can use my ability tonight, but it can't impact the game in any way that I can imagine, barring multiple revivals.

I am Emma, the Deaf Doctor.  My ability name is Treat, and I can target a player, protecting them from one kill.  I cannot use my ability on consecutive nights.

Night One: I ended up targeting Silver.  I thought about picking Reggie after the claim and Jan's flip, but I figured he'd be redirecting away from himself, and tried to next-level scum and think of who they'd kill if they avoided him.  Silver was the whole reason I came over to play in this game, as I'm trying to play one game in every community represented in the Mafia Championship series.  (I'm a lot more experienced than I tried to make it seem early on, because I rolled a strong power role and wanted to avoid getting SPK'd), and given he performed well in his qualifying game and made the finals he seemed like a likely SPK on N1 if they were avoiding Reggie.

Night Two: I could not use my ability.

Night Three: I missed end of day, and the night action deadline, unfortunately.  I'm not sure who I'd have targeted there, possibly Silver again, but that might be wishful thinking given I know he died. Sorry!

Night Four: I targeted EFHW.  I decided she was the least likely to be scum with Haddock, and was more likely to produce useful analysis over Lyle or Iguana if alive, given the high level of effort she'd put into posting in the neighbor QuickTopic. There was also her unclaimed role that she targeted Faust with on Night Two, which could have been useful or provided clarity.

Night Five: I could not use my ability

You have only one ability?

[iguanaiguana]

... Silver... seemed like a likely SPK on N1...

Little did you know that here on these forums, we always kill Faust on N1 when we have nothing better to do, so that we can always figure out when he's scum.

(Sorry Faust, it's a joke; I know you hate this meta.)

[Cellovix]

Yeah, I only have one ability.  It came up after Cron's claim, back in the post #1060 range, if you want to look at that discussion.

I can sympathize with Faust completely on that Meta. It's part of why I've started this thing where I'm playing on a ton of different sites.  But that's not especially relevant to this game I don't think.

I do plan to do a complete re-read and try to keep an open mind, but it's not exactly a secret I currently think Faust is scum, heh.

Answer me this though, Iguana - what sparked the change in play from you? You've been a lot more coherent and analytical the last day or two relative to your early game.  I figured you were kind of just derp town early on, but you've shown flashes of insight and ability that tells me I likely underestimated you quite a bit.  No offense intended at all.  Is it just a situation where we were approaching end game and you needed to take it more seriously?  Not today, but the last game day or two.

[Cellovix]

I find the implication that a deaf doctor is somehow worse than a regular one offensive.

I have more to say, about the claim and the game, later today, after work.

I said something similar when I got the role.  It is obviously strictly for balance reasons and not to insinuate anything, but still read as odd.

[Cellovix]

I'll try to find the time tonight to pour into this, but more likely it'll be on the weekend.

Faust, have you fullclaimed? I know you said you were vanillaized, and then targeted Haddock, but was that the only night you did anything?

[faust]

So here's stuff I want to say. I'll try to split my posts thematically, that makes for easier reading and responding and such.

So let me claim what I haven't yet. My power is 2-shot. You know that I have been vanillaised at the end of N1 and stayed that way until the end of N2. I couldn't perform and action N1 (or so I thought; I guess technically I would have been able to travel back to N0, but that would not have accomplished anything). I did not do anything N2. N3, I targeted Haddock as claimed. I debated targeting on N4, but considering by previous failure to accomplish anything with that I thought it reasonable that scum still had a Roleblocker, and that that might be Haddock, so I did nothing. Then after Haddock's death I tried to block Cellovix (in N4).

[faust]

iguana, could you flavor claim? I think you didn't yet.

[faust]

So Cellovix' claim seems off for me, for several reasons:

- Doctor is not a very strong role; I don't see a game-mechanical necessity to weaken it here. On the other hand, scum!Cellovix might have gotten into trouble had he claimed full Doctor and never successfully saved anyone. Note how conveniently he couldn't target during N2, when the target was arguably the most predictable.
- as far as I can see, all other roles of flavor names with superpowers in the shows had some flavor tie in with that superpower. Emma also has a superpower in the show, but somehow that is not reflected in the claim.

Question for Cellovix: Why did you not target the IC N4?

[faust]

Oh, and I forgot to state this, but I also don't see why Cellovix's role would make a 1-shot Deathproof townie impossible.

[faust]

I'll reread the dead scums for partner interactions, starting with Jan.

Jan interacts a lot with me in particular early on. You can read that for yourselves and figure out if you think it's forced partner interaction. But I think that what follows looks much more like forced partner interaction: This post. I mean, that case on Cellovix rests on nothing. It's just bogus.

Note how in that same post he reads Haddock as town, keeping in a classical 1 town-1 scum pattern if Cello is indeed his partner. He does not mention me or iguana.

Then Jan is gone for a while, in the meantime RR makes his claim. No specific interactions with other players who are still alive following that.

[Cellovix]

Have a couple minutes free:

1) So you tried to retroactively block me on the night Haddock was dead, and yet nothing happened or was changed.  I'll note that I was not notified that I was retroactively roleblocked on N4, but I don't know how that's done on this site. My experience with RB's is that people are told that their action fails, but I know that's handled differently everywhere.

2) Doctor is not a strong role, no, but from a setup design standpoint we did have multiple strong information roles, plus several unclaimed roles that we don't know what they were.  All I can do as to why it was designed this way is shrug because I didn't make the game. I can speculate that there was some synergy where repeated protects on the tracker, or even JReggie with his mass track, or whoever could break the game, and it was ensured that didn't happen. 

I didn't target the IC because frankly I thought EFHW was more useful alive than he was.  She was actually providing analysis and thinking critically, and I thought her interactions with Haddock made her very unlikely to be scum with him. I never even considered protecting Lyle, really - he was a claimed vanilla who was making no impact on the game.

3) It's a small game.  I didn't think it made sense for a deathproof and a doctor to co-exist.  When I consider setup design and try to see if something makes sense, I look at the worst case scenario for the scum team (or town, depending on the role archetype), and see if it is overly harsh for them if it goes really well (or poorly).  With the potential to stop multiple kills, that'd be back breaking for scum, forcing them to generate extra mislynches in an already small game where they'd be hard to come by.  It's similar logic as why I had trouble seeing Reggie as town.  A mass track on top of a tracker, and Lyle/Seprix ICing each other + RR's role seemed like too much information and couldn't possibly be balanced. 

In retrospect I probably should have researched a bunch of the RMM setups on this site, but I didn't have the time or inclination to do so when it wasn't something I was pinning the lynch on one way or the other.

[Cellovix]

I mean. Yes, his push on me is bogus, because I'm town.  I pushed on him for active lurking, and he responded with an over the top OMGUS.

Look at my progression on D1 - I was looking over the playerlist, and decided Chairs, Jan and Haddock hadn't done much. I voted for Chairs, and then he popped back in saying his car was totaled.  I looked at the other two again, saw Haddock simply hadn't been around, while Jan had popped in a few times talking about flavor but doing nothing to advance the game, and pushed on him to provide content.

He had a disproportionate reaction to mild pressure, but trying to spin that as forced partner interaction is false.

[Cellovix]

Back to work with me - may or may not be around this evening, because possible Friday Night plans, but I will be this weekend.

[faust]

Hopefully rereading Haddock will be more fruitful.

This is the first relevant post; he gives some weird read on me that is neither here nor there. That is generally more likely to happen when scum gives a read on town than on themselves. It's also notable (for the future) that he scumreads Jan here.

He defends iguana a bit. Then a bit more. He puts Jan to L-2 (this is just here to give some indication of how he treats his partners). After Jan comes out and says stuff, Haddock gets ready to move off that wagon should the opportunity present itself.

Haddock gives a very mild town read on me. He has a scumread on Cellovix, but says it's only OMGUS. There's a notable moment where iguana puts Haddock to L-2, and Haddock doesn't like it.

End of day stuff on D2 should be enlightening. Haddock goes into it with this preference: Cron > Cellovix > fontisian > faust
I mean, let's face it, that does not look so great for me. Notably iguana doesn't show up in that post, but he had only 1 vote at the time, so meh. If you look at how Haddock treats Cellovix, you will note that it's not dissimilar from how he treated Jan on D1. Scum!Haddock is more a hedgy busser and less a hardcore defender.

Well then he goes on to make the iguana wagon happen. That would be too strong bussing. He goes on to leave his vote on Cellovix for a grand total of 7 minutes, to see if that wagon takes off. I mean. That is some serious distancing attempt. He could leave His vote on Cellovix and iguana would still be the leading wagon, but instead he changes back before going to sleep.

Here's a post in which Haddock is SK hunting me. This says two things: a) I'm not his partner. b) It's reasonable to assume that scum didn't perform the second nightkill.

This is of note:

Did I already mention my silver theory?  I think he is probably responsible for one of the N2 kills.  "Psychotic Dual Personality" sounds a lot like an odd/even night killing ability of some kind.

Further evidence that Haddock didn't actually have 2 kills.

And well, that's it.

PPEs

[faust]

In retrospect I probably should have researched a bunch of the RMM setups on this site

Probably would have made for a better fakeclaim

[faust]

Up next are rereads of Cellovix and iguana, but it'll have to wait some, because rereading is tiresome work.

[iguanaiguana]

Answer me this though, Iguana - what sparked the change in play from you? You've been a lot more coherent and analytical the last day or two relative to your early game.  I figured you were kind of just derp town early on, but you've shown flashes of insight and ability that tells me I likely underestimated you quite a bit.  No offense intended at all.  Is it just a situation where we were approaching end game and you needed to take it more seriously?  Not today, but the last game day or two.

I've gotten into some trouble with my wife for spending too much time trying to solve these games and not paying enough attention to real life. So my compromise where I got to keep playing was that I only analyze situations when it's really needed to help my faction win. Usually that translates into a derp town ---> analytical style of play as the days go on and the game gets a bit more serious.

I've also just found that forming strong reads on day one is often detrimental because usually you're going to be wrong and if you get something wrong stuck in your head, it can be hard to question it later on.

[faust]

So, iguana reread. This is without all the pretty links because well Cellovix should really reread iguana by himself.

- there's a bit where Haddock disagrees with stuff iguana did and says that's normal - iguana doesn't think so. I think that as a scumpair, they'd rather play up that "disagreeing" to stay true to their meta.
- notably little interaction with both Jan and Haddock otherwise, but then again, iguana doesn't really do anything in that period of the game.
- joins the Jan wagon at L-2. That doesn't look too good.
- he votes Haddock twice during D2.
- the first content-y posts he has are about how Neighborizer isn't necessarily a town role. Well true, but also scum wants J Reggie to not be seen as conf!town.
- his claim and the reasoning for it seem rather natural and genuine.
- pushes Haddock on D3, and on D4 some, but then there is some sidetracking. The whole sheep Cellovix thing is not that great. I mean, originally I thought it towny, but at that time I also thought Reggie would flip scum. Since that wasn't the case, it makes quite some more sense for scum to do.
- his post-lynch fullclaim on D5 is rather towny, especially with the reasoning he's given.

Overall more towny stuff than scummy. I think I'll end up voting Cellovix. But let's wait for the reread there, it might bring to light some new stuff.

[faust]

Too bad if it's Cello, because I think I'd have a better chance convincing him of my towniness.

[faust]

1) So you tried to retroactively block me on the night Haddock was dead, and yet nothing happened or was changed.  I'll note that I was not notified that I was retroactively roleblocked on N4, but I don't know how that's done on this site. My experience with RB's is that people are told that their action fails, but I know that's handled differently everywhere.

Forgot to address this. There is usually no notification of having been blocked here.

[iguanaiguana]

iguana, could you flavor claim? I think you didn't yet.

I didn't ever do this. I'm Daphne, the speedster.

She's a blonde chick.

And my one shot commuter isn't called commuter, it's called run away.

[iguanaiguana]

Faust, how do you explain that you claimed to have roleblocked Haddock and that didn't stop any kills?

What do you believe happened there?

Really, that is the main reason I think you must be scum over Cellovix. You made a claim that you said cleared Haddock, and voted J Reggie based on that. But J Reggie was town and Haddock scum. And J Reggie's claim about who people in his neighborhood targeted implies that Haddock DID make all the kills. So the fact that your claimed roleblocking apparently did nothing is highly suspicious. Even if you were redirected, something may happened. And the chance that your roleblock was roleblocked would be, uh, decidedly low.

Also, you claimed Claire/cheerleader for Haddock before he fakeclaimed it for himself. Scummy as all get out. Why would you do that as town?

[iguanaiguana]

So, iguana reread. This is without all the pretty links because well Cellovix should really reread iguana by himself.

- there's a bit where Haddock disagrees with stuff iguana did and says that's normal - iguana doesn't think so. I think that as a scumpair, they'd rather play up that "disagreeing" to stay true to their meta.

I wouldn't have taken him so seriously if I knew he was just scum making up BS!

- notably little interaction with both Jan and Haddock otherwise, but then again, iguana doesn't really do anything in that period of the game.
- joins the Jan wagon at L-2. That doesn't look too good.

I was very absent during D1. I remember not even reading the section that ramped up into Jan's wagon because I was too busy with work. Frankly, I didn't care who was right or wrong, but thought it very exciting that Roadrunner had a scum result on someone from a N0 action and wanted to support it. So I added my vote and I believe I pushed Jan very hard because, well, why not. I consider my D1 very towny and calling the wagon placement scummy is bollocks because as I remember I got on the wagon more or less when I noticed it for the first time.

- he votes Haddock twice during D2.
- the first content-y posts he has are about how Neighborizer isn't necessarily a town role. Well true, but also scum wants J Reggie to not be seen as conf!town.

I was thinking of Witherweaver's scum neighborizer that tricked me in Simply Simpler. I didn't want someone else who hadn't read that game to fall into the trap of being neighborized by scum and fullclaiming for no reason like I did in my first game.

- his claim and the reasoning for it seem rather natural and genuine.
- pushes Haddock on D3, and on D4 some, but then there is some sidetracking. The whole sheep Cellovix thing is not that great. I mean, originally I thought it towny, but at that time I also thought Reggie would flip scum. Since that wasn't the case, it makes quite some more sense for scum to do.

I didn't know that Cellovix would vote for J Reggie when I committed to sheeping him. It may or may not have been a stupid decision (depends on whether it is you or him that is scum, really), but it made sense at the time, and, hey, it was something interesting to do, so why not do it?

- his post-lynch fullclaim on D5 is rather towny, especially with the reasoning he's given.

Overall more towny stuff than scummy. I think I'll end up voting Cellovix. But let's wait for the reread there, it might bring to light some new stuff.

Thanks for the town points. I really just wanted to clarify what I was thinking when I made the posts that I did because once again, why not.

[iguanaiguana]

Hopefully I will get to a proper rereading tonight or tomorrow night. I really need to reread Cellovix more closely than Faust because I think what I need to consider is that Cellovix might be scum and look for evidence of that rather than just read Faust and let my bias that he is probably the scum shoot through the roof.

Hopefully I'll have time to reread both of you though and Jan/Haddock as well.

[faust]

Faust, how do you explain that you claimed to have roleblocked Haddock and that didn't stop any kills?

What do you believe happened there?

Well, I did say that I had a power that can do good stuff. It might very well have tipped off scum. Frankly, I hoped they would just kill me, because then hopefully someone would still have returned to life. It seems they took the other road. I don't think this is as unlikely as you make it out to be given that I softclaimed.

There's something else I just thought about: Our theory is that Seprix was in some form a Motivator, right? Because that goes with your role. If this is true, then  couldn't actually block kills probably. Well. The OP specifically mentions that people can be resurrected in this game, but my role seems to be the only instance of this.

Also, you claimed Claire/cheerleader for Haddock before he fakeclaimed it for himself. Scummy as all get out. Why would you do that as town?

Timing-wise, I made that claim after a night during which it already was clear that Haddock would need to claim something the following day. So if I was scum with him, I would just have given him heads up on what to claim during the night... there would be no clumsy coaching during the day necessary.

As far why I did it: Well, it was on my mind, I was somewhat excited that (I thought) I figured out the situation. There was no real downside. I mean, why would I not do it? To not give Haddock a fakeclaim, you might argue... but I couldn't actually have given him a fakeclaim. Either he was given Claire Benett as a fakeclaim at game start, in which case he would have claimed it no matter what, or he wasn't, in which case he couldn't have claimed it because it was very reasonable to assume that the real Claire was still out there.

[iguanaiguana]

How was scum supposed to know how to stop you - Are you suggesting that they blocked you from traveling to the past at all?

Can you give me a full description of what you did on each night and what you think it all achieved?

I'm not convinced that your role was the only instance of a player who could have brought other players back from the dead. Enough people died without full claiming that it is very possible that another dead town, or even scum, was able to do that.

[Cellovix]

Finally have some time to sit down at a computer without getting nagged at.

That is to say:

Answer me this though, Iguana - what sparked the change in play from you? You've been a lot more coherent and analytical the last day or two relative to your early game.  I figured you were kind of just derp town early on, but you've shown flashes of insight and ability that tells me I likely underestimated you quite a bit.  No offense intended at all.  Is it just a situation where we were approaching end game and you needed to take it more seriously?  Not today, but the last game day or two.

I've gotten into some trouble with my wife for spending too much time trying to solve these games and not paying enough attention to real life. So my compromise where I got to keep playing was that I only analyze situations when it's really needed to help my faction win. Usually that translates into a derp town ---> analytical style of play as the days go on and the game gets a bit more serious.

I've also just found that forming strong reads on day one is often detrimental because usually you're going to be wrong and if you get something wrong stuck in your head, it can be hard to question it later on.

I understand this completely.  I've had to make some compromises with my better half about the game as well, mostly involving not playing on my phone, and only playing in longer game phases that don't require a ton of time investment.

[faust]

How was scum supposed to know how to stop you - Are you suggesting that they blocked you from traveling to the past at all?

Can you give me a full description of what you did on each night and what you think it all achieved?

Basically, yes.

Here's what I suppose happened:

N1 - I did nothing.
N2 - I was vanillaised and thus did nothing.
N3 - I travelled to N2, blocking Haddock. I assume I was roleblocked (in N3), thus preventing my time-travelling from happening. There are other options, like Haddock being Strongman, but this one seems the most likely.
N4 - I did nothing.
N5 - I travelled to N4, blocking Cellovix. Either Cellovix is town or Haddock performed the kill or I got roleblocked still.

[faust]

It's too bad that Haddock flipped with such a non-telling role description. I don't like it when RMMs do that. If we knew what power he had, it would be a lot easier to figure this out.

[Cellovix]

Day One Iguana Analysis:

Overall impression so far:

Teamlyle is no fool. All this talk of him derp clearing is overblown.

Faust argument on Cellovix is weakish. Plus, I like ducks. My first word was duck. So D1 pass for Cellovix.

Unless later on I feel like lynching him.

It's 4PM. Good night everyone.

Initial reaction to this post was +Town, because I don't see scum giving a D1 pass to someone they know is town. But the hedge on it makes it pretty null, and obviously a joke.

Vote: Roadrunner

Wagons!

This is the first instance of Wagons!, and the carefree attitude that has had me town reading Iguana all game. Iguana, can you talk to me about Wagons! ? Is this something you've done before? If not, what was your thought process on doing it this game, and what were you trying to accomplish? I guess what I'm asking is if it was a conscious decision to do it to generate reactions, or was it just a spur of the moment thing that you ran with?

Full disclosure, I do not find Roadrunner at all scummy this game, and in fact was town-leaning him when I voted him. But I saw no harm in voting him so early in the game when he was unlikely to be lynched and was curious who else might join the vote. I thought maybe we'd see some scum-tells out of the new players who don't know his meta yet.

It didn't go so well, so I self-voted for fun. Now my games are over and I shall play for real until I don't feel like it anymore.

Happy weekend!

Hm. I like this, I think. Or rather I like the mindset that it had to come from, a genuine attempt to figure out new players by how they react to unfamiliar stimuli.

I read about my character and I am apparently known for duck hunting a certain someone.

So, uh, Vote: Cellovix I guess?

It's the flavorful thing to do.

Going to go research his character to see if this checks out. Let's see. A ctrl+F of duck in http://heroeswiki.com/Daphne_Millbrook has Duck Hunting Janice as a nickname, so checks out I guess.

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

At least my bad analysis is intentionally bad analysis.

Cite your sources here. What do you consider to be awful analysis, and why?

Super don't feel like it at this time.

I originally got pretty frustrated with Iguana about this, but decided it almost certainly came from town. I think he'd have appeased me here if he were scum and put forth a token effort rather than just blow it off. Iguana - would you mind answering this now? What analysis were you considering bad at the time you made that post?

I resent this. I'd say we get on just fine most games.

Oh I think we're always perfectly amicable. But we do disagree reasonably often, wouldn't you say? (Maybe you disagree )

I disagree with everyone, always. Lynch me if you dare. I'm a town.

Zero self-preservation. So town. I'd be more skeptical of this thing when someone is facing actual pressure, as it could be a WiFOM gambit, but Iguana was under no real pressure here, and I see no agenda or scum motivation to antagonize.

Vote: Roadrunner

I actually don't like the naked vote here, though - Iguana can you talk about what you were thinking at the time? Especially given this came on the heels of you saying you didn't find RR scummy this game and just voted him to see what people would do.

Vote: Fontisian

Wagons!

I'm just voting for the scummiest person. I put wagons at the end only to annoy you.

Kind of opportunistic given hadn't mentioned Fontisian at all up to this point, but it's a continuation of the "deliberately provoking town" thing that I don't really think he does as scum. (Town in this case since Faust/Iguana are not scum togther because....duh)

silver can you explain your iguana vote a bit? Now that faust has pointed it out it's really sticking in my craw. I mean, you guys have a minor disagreement about nothing particularly game-related, then he townreads you and then you vote him. What's going on there?

I'm a town and he's probably some weird role like "all the scum at once" because bananas.

Really weird interaction here. Involves all three of Iguana/Faust/Haddock (and Silver, but he's irrelevant beyond being known town).

Haddock's defending Iguana... kind of, while the interaction was pointed out to him by Faust, and Iguana kind of inserts an interjection.

Not sure if I can pull anything absolute out of this post.

Explaining now would be cool.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

alright whatever

Vote: Roadrunner

Wagons!

I don't like it though.

I'm not his scum partner though, I'm a town.

I hated this post at first glance, but here's the thing: Iguana is worried about being linked to RR as his scumbuddy in this post. When as scum he'd know RR is town.

Yes, it's fakeable. No, I don't think Iguana is the type to fake that kind of nuance.

You can just kill me, but kill Seprix tomorrow for his shitshow push here.

Seems odd, why don't we just kill Seprix today?

Not very efficient I'd say.

I don't like this, though. I guess there's an argument he wouldn't be so blatant though given his buddy would have been outed? Eh.

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Is this a soft claim!?

Don't like Iguana jumping on this, though. 

why should you be prime targets? We are playing RMM. There's a good chance that every player has a power role.

Well, often in RMM there's one vanilla townie.

Is this a soft claim!?

Kinda, not really. I'm guessing based on a little information I indirectly have that there is one in this game. It's not that big a deal.

oh dude I was just joking, I didn't want you to say anything : /

Ergh.  I can read this as being genuine, or trying to play it off s a joke. 

I also really want to soft claim tho becuase I've got this really funny meme idea....

well not that funny.

Iguana, can you talk about what you would have soft claimed here? 

Swear words tend to make me unvote

You should have more conviction. What if you're right! Wouldn't that be neat?

+ I'm curious too and kinda want to hammer.

Leaning town on this, as he's basically goading RR into staying on Jan.

Iguanaiguana and I will probably both vote Jan...

Let's do it.

Vote: Jan

Grumpy McSwearyscum needs to die.

Jan lynch was inevitable, and the late position on wagon is plausible bussing, especially given I think it's the first time he stated anything resembling conviction about a read this game.  But it's mitigated by the way he was prodding RR into voting Jan, and I like the tone. I think. I might just be confirmation biasing at this point because Iguana has been very town.

Roadrunner, do something heroic for once and hammer the scum! Sacrifice yourself!!!!

I BELIEVE IN YOU

Eh. Probably null as I suspect he'd do this kind of thing as either alignment.

Vote Count 1.final

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
Jan(7): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle, iguanaiguana, faust, silverspawn
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(3): fontisian, Cron, J Reggie

Not Voting(1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.

End of D1 vote count.

Both Faust and Iguana are in prime late wagon bussing spots, but I like Iguana's vote more, as the wagons were 4/4 split between Jan/Seprix at the time when he transitioned over, prodding RR to join him.

Thoughts:

After D1, I'm pretty sure Iguana is town. He shows no fear, no sense of self preservation.  Intentionally antagonizing people he would know are town, being super carefree, and doing deliberately scummy things.  I hate losing to that kind of thing, though, so am obviously going to continue my re-read and analysis.  His interactions with Jan and Haddock were inconclusive, but  his own play independent of theirs was solidly town I think.

Taking a break, then starting in on D2.

[Cellovix]

Trying to multi-quote and format on this forum while cycling back between start of game and end of game is a miserable experience though.  There's not a multi-quote feature right? Where I can just easily click my way through?

[faust]

Cellovix: Whom are you posting this for?

There is no multi-quote feature, sadly.

[Cellovix]

No one in particular.   

Myself maybe? I kind of talk out loud when I read through the game and do this kind of analysis.  Where I comment on things I see, and then ask people questions if what I see requires clarification, if that makes sense.

One of you two already knows who the scum is between you.  The other has a choice to make, and until I'm sure which one is which, I don't see a point in directly casing the other to them.

Like, yes, I'm currently leaning towards you being scum, and Iguana being town.  I want you to be town, because you've frankly showed more effort and analysis this game, but Iguana has just been so town.

If you're actually town and he's scum, you're going to need to sell me on that fact - because if you objectively read my posts this game in isolation you're going to come away (reluctantly) sure that I'm town.  I say reluctant because you've tunneled on me since effectively my first post of the game, and it's human nature to want to be correct.

The gloves are off for me now. You'll see reading through that I was not as active, not as high energy as I could have been.  I have a tendency to get shot N1 in upwards of 75% of the games I play, so I roll doctor, even a nerfed variation, and decide to take advantage of the fact that this is a completely new meta to me where know one knows me, and try to come across as vaguely competent, but unthreatening.

That's part of why I reacted so strongly to Reggie's use of that word - it insinuated a certain kind of mindset that he was evaluating players in a way that I thought scum would, rather than town.

But there's no more night kill to dodge. Just one more day of analysis and making the correct decision, and I have never had a game as town where I feel I lost because I didn't put in enough effort.  That won't change this game. Hopefully!

[faust]

Let's do the Cellovix reread. I hope he's scummy, because otherwise I get lynched and that wouldn't be good.

- asks if scum usually have daychat here. Asking for that kind of stuff might be towny, or scum willing to appear towny, but he's not asking for this particular game, so there's nothing really.
- there's generally lots of questions, which is mostly a playstyle thing I believe.
- his reaction to teamlyle's slip is just so much the standard way for scum to respond.
- he doesn't want to massclaim. Scum doesn't want to massclaim, is what I'm saying. Though there are those who don't like high-risk-high-reward strategies as town.
- talking about how fontisian/RR isn't scum/scum. Which is a really inconsequential thing to point out, but hey, in the end you an say "look, I was right".
- he goes after lurkers. That is an easy thing to fall back onto. I mean lurker lynches are fine, but yo should go for them until late D1.
- then he attacks Jan, for being inactive apart from flavor comments. And that's an easy enough thing to do because as soon as Jan posts something substantial, you can back off. Also scum is way more focused on how their partners are playing.
-this:

Haddock just had the one post.  Feels more like not being here and less lurking.  Might need prodded or replaced.

Jan and Chairs have been active lurking, hence me voting for both of them at various points.

I don't think there's a significant enough difference between Haddock and chairs at this point. But Cellovix doesn't want to vote for Haddock.
- here comes the uber-scummy post. Jan is under heavy flak due to RR's claim, yet Cellovix says he wants to lynch him not because of the claim, but because Cellovix in his amazing scumhunting capabilities deduced early D1 that Jan is scum. Also encourages people to reread the Cellovix/Jan stuff (which, he would hope, would convince people of his towniness). I find it hard to see this coming from town.
- this is followed by another post prompting people to look at Cello/Jan.

This is D1.

- he votes for Haddock without a reason... which is weird given that he usually does more explaining, but not necessarily scummy!weird.
- now there comes some clash between Cellovix and Haddock. Cellovix seems very intent on creating interactions with scum, and these feel different than the interactions he has with other players I think.

If Haddock is scum, JReggie is almost certainly scum, because it'd mean Haddock was trying to save one of his easiest mislynches.

Woah, look at that mislynch setup.
- shortly before the day ends, Cellovix switches his vote. Convenient.
- end of D2 is mostly irrelevant for scum!Cellovix, because that means that all wagons are on town.

This was D2. Taking a break now.

[faust]

Great even more "I played intentionally scummier than I could have" bullshit.

[faust]

because if you objectively read my posts this game in isolation you're going to come away (reluctantly) sure that I'm town.

I mean, I would want you to be town. I'd have a better shot at convicing you than iguana I think. But it's just not there.

[faust]

Hrum. There could still plausibly be a Serial Killer.... in which case, uh, I'm the only town left. That can't be good.

Evidence for this scenario is mainly that there were these two nightkills, one of which is apparently not accounted for by the scum team, per Haddock's confusion. But the only possible town role to do kills would be silver I think; and silver wanted to killer to claim, so no.

The only thing I can plausibly do if this is the case is vote No Lynch, right? Hope that the scums shoot each other?

I have no idea how to evaluate the likelihood of this vs only one scum.

[faust]

Now I kinda regret that I have no shot of my power left. If I had, I could plausibly block a nightkill in N5 and then make for a better scenario tomorrow.

[faust]

Welp. I have decided that my chances of winning are too low even if there are 2 scum left. So let's roll the dice!

Vote: Cellovix

[Cellovix]

What. 

Get your vote off of there, I haven't even finished my re-read of Iguana, let alone you. He hasn't posted his own re-read, and you stopped your read on me at day two.

[Cellovix]

If you are town, you are straight up throwing the game.

It's fine to think I'm scum - it is not fine to place a vote when I haven't finished my analysis, Iguana hasn't posted any of his, and you haven't finished your own even.

I struggle to see any possible way you do this as town, when there is so much work and discussion to be had yet.

[faust]

I have read enough to arrive at a point where I don't think anything you can say will sway me in a direction of voting iguana.

Sorry if you're town, but that's how it is.

[faust]

I also struggle to see why I should wait on your analysis to be finished for my vote. The only analysis I need to finish is mine own. And for all intents and purposes, it is done. I could read your D3-D5, but I think I would have remembered had you done something uber-towny there, and what I remember (like deciding the Haddock/J Reggie duel in scum's favor) is scummy.

[faust]

Now I can just wait for iguana to either take his revenge on me or clear himself as town.

[Cellovix]

I decided the Haddock/Reggie duel in scum's favor because of your own fucking claim.  Are you forgetting that I was voting for him, and then you come in and mechanically clear him, forcing me to re-evaluate?

You're being lazy, you're repeatedly ignoring context, and you're twisting things to seem scummy when they are not.  (Spoiler, I was in the process of responding to your case against me when you voted, I'll still post it, but it seems it'll effectively just be for Iguana, and hope that he is town)

[Cellovix]

It's like you came into today knowing you had already lost, and are just going through the motions out of respect for the rest of your team.

[Cellovix]

1) I am the doctor.  Of course I don't want to mass claim on day one. 

2) Talking about Fontisian and RR not being scum ignores the context - someone (Cron, I think?) had literally just prior to that been talking about how RR flipping scum would not clear Fontisian.  I talked about it, saying that I didn't think that was scum/scum, because of the way he reacted to her attack.

3) I went after lurkers to get them to post, and play the game.  You're ignoring the progression of thought I had, where I looked at the vote count/playerlist, saw Chairs was in the game, had no idea who Chairs was, went back to look at his posts, and then voted him.  He came in and said his car was totaled, so I switched to another lurker who was actively lurking - Jan's posts to that point had almost exclusively been about flavor, so I voted him while pressuring him to provide actual content.

4) Of course I would rather lynch people based on behavior rather than on claim.  Especially in a game advertised as Role Madness, and having no baseline for what that actually means, because my own role is relatively simple, behavior is the only thing that really matters on day one. You're trying to frame the fact that I thought scum was, well, behaviorally scum, in a negative light.

People were pushing RR, people were pushing Seprix, I came back after being away, and reiterated who I wanted to lynch, while talking to people who were not on the Jan wagon and having them look at how Jan behaved.

5) You're ignoring the context of the Haddock vote - I'd just spent some time getting some town reads off the Jan interactions and narrowing down who I thought scum could reside in.  I think I had it like, Haddock, Iguana, and one of You or Silver, and decided Haddock was who I wanted to pressure most in that group as he hadn't participated much.

6) It's hardly "mislynch setup" - they hadn't claimed yet at that point I don't think, Haddock had just vaguely defended JReggie. I had trouble seeing scum to that to town, because if it was scum/town, it's denying a critical mislynch for him.  The claim happened later and mitigated those circumstances.

7) I switched my vote because people were effectively saying Reggie and Haddock were off the table for the day. You're again ignoring context and trying to twist things to appear scummy, when they are not.  You're ignoring that I had repeatedly tried to engage with Fontisian, and she had refused to do so.  You're ignoring that I thought Iguana was town, and that I thought you were town (or at least wanted you to be town, because you were actually playing the game). 

I don't actually think you or Iguana were even wagons when I had to leave, actually, but I'll have to go back and look - I missed the end of day due to real life things (which has been an unfortunately recurring theme this game).

I did not play "scummier", I simply wasn't insanely high effort.  I was still transparent with my thought process and reads, still scum hunted almost constantly, and still focused on driving the game forwards and trying to win.  I just didn't spam the thread non-stop in an attempt to draw the NK away from likely meta targets for it, because, role.

9) It's there. Because I'm town, and have been obviously town.  Pretty sure you are literally the only person (other than Jan) who has even expressed suspicion on me this game, and you quickly drop it and move elsewhere after testing the waters for your mislynch.  Because yes, that's quite obviously what it was, at this point.  This attack, this ignoring of context, this twisting of reality is not something that comes from you as town.

You are blatantly trying to use reverse psychology on Iguana, because it's the only path you have to victory.  Not killing him in order to set up the WiFOM today, and bemoaning how I'd have been so much easier to convince of your towniness.

[Cellovix]

This just annoys me to no end, even if you're scum it annoys me.  I don't get to do endgames very often, and I don't get to take my time and do thorough analysis and figure things out very often.  You've robbed me of that because it effectively is a scum claim from you (to me, if nothing else), and the entire reason I play mafia is to figure out who the scum are and lynch them. 

[faust]

I did not play "scummier", I simply wasn't insanely high effort.  I was still transparent with my thought process and reads, still scum hunted almost constantly, and still focused on driving the game forwards and trying to win.  I just didn't spam the thread non-stop in an attempt to draw the NK away from likely meta targets for it, because, role.

But... you did not have a good role!

[faust]

This just annoys me to no end, even if you're scum it annoys me.  I don't get to do endgames very often, and I don't get to take my time and do thorough analysis and figure things out very often.  You've robbed me of that because it effectively is a scum claim from you (to me, if nothing else), and the entire reason I play mafia is to figure out who the scum are and lynch them.

Well, sorry if you're annoyed. If I remember correctly, both you and iguana stated intent to end this game by tonight. I might have done more stuff otherwise.

[faust]

1) I am the doctor.  Of course I don't want to mass claim on day one.

Also I fail to see how this factors into it? You mean because you don't want protective role to be outed? Man, protective roles are outed in a massclaim regardless of whether or not you'e the guy that has that role. This makes no sense.

[faust]

I decided the Haddock/Reggie duel in scum's favor because of your own fucking claim.  Are you forgetting that I was voting for him, and then you come in and mechanically clear him, forcing me to re-evaluate?

No, you decided it based on all the information available to you. You don't get to shift all the blame to me.

[Cellovix]

Vote: Faust

So be it I guess.  Like, yes, you're almost certainly the scum but I wanted to come to that conclusion on my own rather than being forced into it.

I acknowledge I'm being salty, but after what, a month and a half? Of being in one game, I was really looking forward to taking my time and solving endgame. I had today off work, and fully planned on sinking 4-5 hours into it, doing the full analysis on Iguana, and then the full analysis on you, and then making my decision carefully.

I'm not completely unsympathetic.  You pinned all your hopes of winning on your reverse psychology working on Iguana, but don't really expect it to work.  So you half-ass the push on me with a token effort so your team doesn't get too pissed, and then try to end it, one way or the other.  I get it.  I've done the token effort thing before as scum in unwinnable situations.

Obviously you aren't going to admit to being scum, but whatever.

PPE

[Cellovix]

1) I am the doctor.  Of course I don't want to mass claim on day one.

Also I fail to see how this factors into it? You mean because you don't want protective role to be outed? Man, protective roles are outed in a massclaim regardless of whether or not you'e the guy that has that role. This makes no sense.

I'll never advocate for a day one mass claim in any game, but I tried to shut discussion down of it sharply because i was a protective role in this game, specifically. They have minimal benefit to town early on, and tons of benefit to scum.

Gee, I wonder why you tried to feel out if it was going to be a possible option?

I decided the Haddock/Reggie duel in scum's favor because of your own fucking claim.  Are you forgetting that I was voting for him, and then you come in and mechanically clear him, forcing me to re-evaluate?

No, you decided it based on all the information available to you. You don't get to shift all the blame to me.

Exactly. I decided it based on the information available to me.

@Iguana - this is a scum claim.  He knows I'm town, and is addressing me as such here.

[Cellovix]

As far as I'm concerned, we're done here.  I'll obviously answer any questions Iguana has and chat with him about things to help him gain clarity and make the right decision (and I'll talk with you about non-mafia stuff or something if you're bored), but there is literally zero chance you made that post as town, after making the case you did, and the vote you did.

[faust]

@Iguana - this is a scum claim.  He knows I'm town, and is addressing me as such here.

What?

[faust]

I have no idea what you're even talking about.

[faust]

I have done my rereading until I arrived at a point where I felt sure enough to make a vote.

Cellovix just decides that I am scum without rereading me, because he knows that his only shot at winning is getting me lynched.

Now who's the scummy one?

[Cellovix]

It's a mindset thing.

You're acknowledging I had a decision to make, and had to process the information available to make that decision.

Scum do not, because they already know what the correct decision is, town do not.

[faust]

It's a mindset thing.

You're acknowledging I had a decision to make, and had to process the information available to make that decision.

Scum do not, because they already know what the correct decision is, town do not.

The decision between bussing and defending is nontrivial even if oyu know everything.

[faust]

At the time you decided to vote J Reggie over Haddock because you knew it would end up in a mislynch, and you thought you could frame me once Reggie flipped town. You would have probably continued to bus had that not been the case.

[Cellovix]

I have done my rereading until I arrived at a point where I felt sure enough to make a vote.

Cellovix just decides that I am scum without rereading me, because he knows that his only shot at winning is getting me lynched.

Now who's the scummy one?

I mean, yes? To win as town I have to vote you, and hope that A) Iguana is town, and B) makes the correct decision. It's obviously my only hope of winning after you voted for me, because I'm town.

You have repeatedly ignored the context of things I've said and done, and twisted things I've said and done to seem scummy when, well, they aren't - adding onto that the fact that you addressed me as if I were town even after you voted me, and I'm pretty sold on you being scum.  I just would have preferred to have the time to do due diligence before making that decision as a final thing.

[faust]

The reaction at least makes me think that Cello is not the SK. That's a good thing; it makes the 2-scum-scenario less likely.

[faust]

You have repeatedly ignored the context of things I've said and done, and twisted things I've said and done to seem scummy when, well, they aren't - adding onto that the fact that you addressed me as if I were town even after you voted me, and I'm pretty sold on you being scum.  I just would have preferred to have the time to do due diligence before making that decision as a final thing.

It's a pretty funny statement considering the only reason you give to lynch me is majorly twisting my words.

[faust]

Will you unvote if I do?

[Cellovix]

Yes.

But I mean, I don't know how objective the rest of my read through could possibly be after this, heh. 

[Cellovix]

If there was a SK the game would be over.

Why is that even a possible scenario you're "considering"?

I couldn't use my ability last night, so there's no chance I stopped a second kill, and they'd obviously have shot then if they could.

Occam's Razor just says Haddock's role let him kill twice on N2 somehow, given we know he targeted both Cron and Seprix.

[Cellovix]

If there was a SK the game would be over.

Why is that even a possible scenario you're "considering"?

I couldn't use my ability last night, so there's no chance I stopped a second kill, and they'd obviously have shot then if they could.

Occam's Razor just says Haddock's role let him kill twice on N2 somehow, given we know he targeted both Cron and Seprix.

...or the reason you keep wondering about a SK is that you know your team only killed one of those on night two? 

That'd be kind of hilarious and it'd just end up being me picking which of the scum is going to win.

Idk.  If that's the case, I don't think it really matters to me, because I literally can't win, so I'm going to just proceed as if it's not.

[faust]

It's possible to win. No lynch, scum shootout, town survives.

[Cellovix]

I guess theoretically, yeah.  But that'd require certain knowledge that a SK exists, or you just hand the win to the scum.

[Cellovix]

@Iguana

It's time for me to head out for most of the day but I'll be around this evening if you want to discuss things.

All I ask is that if you decide to vote me, to give me a chance to respond to you and post, first.  (And then we can Wagons! Faust)

If you're scum, well played.  I don't think I'd have ever voted you today even if Faust hadn't forced the 1 vs 1. 

[iguanaiguana]

Welp. I have decided that my chances of winning are too low even if there are 2 scum left. So let's roll the dice!

Vote: Cellovix

I'm town.

[iguanaiguana]

The game ends tonight!

If I have time!

[iguanaiguana]

Going............ 2.......... CHURCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHlol

[Cellovix]

Welp. I have decided that my chances of winning are too low even if there are 2 scum left. So let's roll the dice!

Vote: Cellovix

I'm town.

Neat.

I am also a town.

[faust]

Well at least I got that part right. What remains is the convincing.

[Cellovix]

I will be home for the evening in approximately idk.  8-9 hours.

I will make posts then, but please do read our back and forth, as well as our posts previously, obviously.

[faust]

The game ends tonight!

If I have time!

Well, I'd kinda like to be around for that, but if it's like forum-time-night, then I'll be asleep.

[faust]

Noone here?

I probably won't stay up much longer than another hour. I don't wont to be lynched in my sleep, but there's only so much I can do.

[faust]

I guess let's walk through the scum narrative for me. I will make the steps and point out why they don't really make sense.

1) I pushed RR hard prior to his fullclaim
- that's actually towny. I mean, not the push itself (though I think I had pretty good reasons), but the fact that, even though I pointed out glaring contradictions in RR's posts, I was ultimately convinced. As scum, at that point I could have plausibly stayed on RR wiithout looking too scummy - but I didn't.

2) On D1, I tried to get a mislynch on Seprix instead of voting for one of RR/Jan
- this isn't really true. If you read through it, you will realize that I only voted elsewhere because I thought we could neutralize Jan if he cannot self-target. Had I been his partner, I would have known that he can self-target. So I would have known from the start that my Seprix vote would ultimately be unsupported and I'd have to move back to RR/Jan. Then why make this detour at all? I could have just stayed on Jan and looked townier for it.

3) I defended Haddock and pushed J Reggie.
- okay, let's be real here. What would have been the game plan in this? I try to get Reggie lynched, then Haddock gets lynched twice? And in the meantime, Haddock can somehow double-kill so that I win before people can lynch me? I mean, you just have to realize that this is a godawful plan. It banks on all kills being successful. It banks on Haddock not getting shot by some vigilante type after he is outed scum. This is an RMM game, and everything could have easily gone wrong with this plan. That is, if you even believe that scum can somehow make 2 kills twice. I mean once, I can see that somehow. But twice is just literally overkill.

4) My claim
- most of what I can say about this I have already said in the above post. The claim, as scum, would only serve to keep Haddock alive one more time, which would only work in a very specific setting. In all other situations, it just looks plain bad for me. There's also the fact that I breadcrumbed. Could I have fake-breadcrumbed as scum? Sure. But that would mean that I have decided to stick with the same role I contrived at game start. Which certainly happens, but is to some extent less likely.

[faust]

Right... this is as long as I can stay.

I would like to have another chat, that is, if you decide you want to lynch me. You can lynch Cellovix anytime you want.

[faust]

I should be around for most of tomorrow.

[iguanaiguana]

I've looked at this from several metrics and it all just points to more evidence for Faust being scum than Cellovix.

First of all, their claimed roles and how they match up with what I already know about the existing roles in the game.

So, Faust claims that he can travel back in time to roleblock in the past. And yet Fontisian's role was town roleblocker. At the same time, Cellovix claims to be a variant of every other night doctor, and there are no other protective roles that have flipped other than my own one shot self-protection. So, Cellovix's claim seems more likely to be a town claim than Faust's.

Then, there are the opinions of the dead players.

EFHW and J Reggie both were scumreading Faust and townreading Cello on the last day that they were alive.
Teamlyle also mainly wanted to vote for Faust and Haddock, and was willing to sheep Cello with me.

Fontisian's final vote was for Faust after everyone ignored her suggestion that we vote for Haddock, and said little to nothing about Cello.

Cron distrusted Faust and townread Cello.

silverspawn spent his last day pushing Haddock really hard (probably why he got the NK), but before that he was going back and forth on Faust a lot, and going after Cello. On the 3-way random lynch day, silver voted for Faust to give me the chance to stay alive.

Seprix ended the day townreading Cellovix and scumreading Faust as well.

Wow, I didn't expect that to be so consistent. If Cellovix is scum here, then every single townie was wrong about him, and if Faust is town, every single town was wrong.

[iguanaiguana]

Right... this is as long as I can stay.

I would like to have another chat, that is, if you decide you want to lynch me. You can lynch Cellovix anytime you want.

Sorry for being slow!

I can chat if you want, but I think I am basically convinced to lynch you.

[iguanaiguana]

Honestly, I'm mainly laying out as much evidence as I can now to show you that I am not doing this in a derpy sort of way.

[iguanaiguana]

I guess let's walk through the scum narrative for me. I will make the steps and point out why they don't really make sense.

1) I pushed RR hard prior to his fullclaim
- that's actually towny. I mean, not the push itself (though I think I had pretty good reasons), but the fact that, even though I pointed out glaring contradictions in RR's posts, I was ultimately convinced. As scum, at that point I could have plausibly stayed on RR wiithout looking too scummy - but I didn't.

I mean, it looks scummy the same way everyone says that I was looking scummy. You voted for Roadrunner until it looked pretty inevitable that Jan was getting lynched and switched. You definitely could have done it as town, but it's just as likely or more likely to come from scum.

2) On D1, I tried to get a mislynch on Seprix instead of voting for one of RR/Jan
- this isn't really true. If you read through it, you will realize that I only voted elsewhere because I thought we could neutralize Jan if he cannot self-target. Had I been his partner, I would have known that he can self-target. So I would have known from the start that my Seprix vote would ultimately be unsupported and I'd have to move back to RR/Jan. Then why make this detour at all? I could have just stayed on Jan and looked townier for it.

I don't really have an opinion on this. I don't think it makes you look towny though.

3) I defended Haddock and pushed J Reggie.
- okay, let's be real here. What would have been the game plan in this? I try to get Reggie lynched, then Haddock gets lynched twice? And in the meantime, Haddock can somehow double-kill so that I win before people can lynch me? I mean, you just have to realize that this is a godawful plan. It banks on all kills being successful. It banks on Haddock not getting shot by some vigilante type after he is outed scum. This is an RMM game, and everything could have easily gone wrong with this plan. That is, if you even believe that scum can somehow make 2 kills twice. I mean once, I can see that somehow. But twice is just literally overkill.

We don't really know what tools you had up your sleeve to give your plan a better shot of success. And considering the analysis I just did, which basically points to every single player in the game thinking you and Haddock were scum before they died, it may have been a pretty desperate attempt to save a sinking ship.

It doesn't make a ton of sense, but what makes even less sense is that the universal townread who has towny interactions with all known scum players is the final scum.

4) My claim
- most of what I can say about this I have already said in the above post. The claim, as scum, would only serve to keep Haddock alive one more time, which would only work in a very specific setting. In all other situations, it just looks plain bad for me. There's also the fact that I breadcrumbed. Could I have fake-breadcrumbed as scum? Sure. But that would mean that I have decided to stick with the same role I contrived at game start. Which certainly happens, but is to some extent less likely.

As per breadcruming, you could just be a scum roleblocker. As per the rest, I mean, I dunno man, if you did this as town, I guess you lost us the game.

[iguanaiguana]

My conclusion is that if Faust is town, he had terrible luck and made some very questionable plays, whereas Cellovix played an almost perfect scum game. If Cellovix is town, the whole game just makes more sense.

There's no sense in drawing this out any more.

Vote: Faust

[iguanaiguana]

I guess what convinced me most was reading who the dead players were voting for right before they died.

[Cellovix]

Am home now.  Will be around to answer any questions you have, Iguana.

Like, obviously lynching Faust is the correct decision but I'd be saying that as either alignment, so...

[Cellovix]

Oh, PPE.

Good call!

There is literally no way Faust was town, from an objective perspective.  He was just going through the motions today, taking stuff I said or did out of context and presenting them as super scummy.

[Cellovix]

He definitely killed EFHW last night in order to try some kind of desperation WiFOM/reverse psychology thing on you today, as it was the only chance he had.

[iguanaiguana]

I really wanted to answer two of these questions.

Day One Iguana Analysis:

There is a lot of really awful analysis going around in this game so far.

At least my bad analysis is intentionally bad analysis.

Cite your sources here. What do you consider to be awful analysis, and why?

Super don't feel like it at this time.

I originally got pretty frustrated with Iguana about this, but decided it almost certainly came from town. I think he'd have appeased me here if he were scum and put forth a token effort rather than just blow it off. Iguana - would you mind answering this now? What analysis were you considering bad at the time you made that post?

[iguanaiguana]

He definitely killed EFHW last night in order to try some kind of desperation WiFOM/reverse psychology thing on you today, as it was the only chance he had.

Hey, mind telling me whether we win?

[Cellovix]

Also:

[iguanaiguana]

And...the other one!

Day One Iguana Analysis:
 

I also really want to soft claim tho becuase I've got this really funny meme idea....

well not that funny.

Iguana, can you talk about what you would have soft claimed here? 

[Cellovix]

He definitely killed EFHW last night in order to try some kind of desperation WiFOM/reverse psychology thing on you today, as it was the only chance he had.

Hey, mind telling me whether we win?

Faust was scum unless you were, so.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm town. I think we win.

[Cellovix]

I had a truly massive case against Faust about half completed, and I was dreading having to pour in another 1-2 hours of work to finish it, so I'm really glad you pulled the trigger, heh.

[gkrieg13]

As Nathan raced towards the last of the perpetrators, he was stopped by two people.  Each claimed they had been framed by the other!

As he mulled over both options, he decided one of them was scum.  But was he right?

Vote Count 6.final

Faust (2): Cellovix, iguanaiguana
Cellovix (1): faust

With 3 alive, it took 2 to lynch.

Faust has been lynched!  He was Sylar, The Ability-Stealing Serial Killer

Iguanaiguana has been endgamed.

The mafia team of Jan, Haddock, and Cellovix has won!

[gkrieg13]

mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/HV3m3cpA7NU

mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/kY9NmNM6YYP

speccy 1: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/viUHgmHbZsXC2

speccy 2: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/hjSp6c8tXYdEg

[EFHW]

OMG. Well played Cellovix.  Really.  I hope it wasn't too easy for you.

faust was Sylar!

[EFHW]

Thanks for the game gkrieg, I'm glad I subbed in.

[Cellovix]

Sorry Iguana.  You had a nasty Sophie's choice there the last day between me and the SK.

I no killed with 4 alive because I was pretty sure Faust had another kill - he was laying it on too thick that you were so, so town to bait me into shooting you.

[gkrieg13]

MVP goes to Cellovix.  He really looked townie the whole game, and did a lot of distancing.  He also no-killed last night, which was the correct move.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry Iguana.  You had a nasty Sophie's choice there the last day between me and the SK.

I no killed with 4 alive because I was pretty sure Faust had another kill - he was laying it on too thick that you were so, so town to bait me into shooting you.

Ironically town would've won if you had shot iguana.  You both would've shot each other the next night, and neither of your wincons would've been satisfied, and theirs would've been.

[EFHW]

Did faust have a qt that we can read?

What was all that about Cellovix vanillaizing himself?  In the QT you said that would make him no longer mafia.

[gkrieg13]

Did faust have a qt that we can read?

What was all that about Cellovix vanillaizing himself?  In the QT you said that would make him no longer mafia.

I'm pretty sure I just told him that he would still have the kill and would still be mafia.

[gkrieg13]

Also people can share their own QTs. I don't want to share anything people don't want to share thenselves

[silverspawn]

grumblegrumblemafiaandskgamesluckfactornevershooteachotherandstuffalsofaust

err, my QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/e7EqfCyeTPh

[Cellovix]

OMG. Well played Cellovix.  Really.  I hope it wasn't too easy for you.

faust was Sylar!

Far from easy!

Losing Jan on Day One was really rough, as it really neutered our power levels.  I made the executive decision to waste my vanilla-izing role because it'd have created too many IC's if it became obvious it was scum sided.

Town was really, really powerful mechanically, and Faust's role was apparently insanely strong too!

I was fortunate to pull out the win.  <3 to my teammates, to gkrieg for hosting, and for the town for being a pleasure to play with and making the game fun despite me being stuck playing scum, which I can't stand!

[Cellovix]

Faust did shoot me!

We just also roleblocked him on the night he did that.

[iguanaiguana]

Meh

[iguanaiguana]

I didn't put up the most compelling piece of evidence, Cellovix's signature.

[Cellovix]

I didn't put up the most compelling piece of evidence, Cellovix's signature.

Quack.

[Cellovix]

Sorry man.  If it helps, you still lynched scum?

And I had a lot of fun playing with you.

[iguanaiguana]

I like the universe where Cellovix is town better. He still gets the MVP in that universe.

[EFHW]

chairs'/my QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/2eiNYAfHBRdvU

[EFHW]

faust does make a lot more sense as third party. His investigation of Haddock came across as very not-mafia to me.

We didn't even consider the possibility of mafia and SK targeting the same person, resulting in one nk.  And it happened twice!

[iguanaiguana]

I've lost so many mafia games.

Newbie player of the year/ worst mafia game player ever?

[iguanaiguana]

So.......I could time travel with Teamlyle...if Teamlyle got unvanillaized....by getting targeted by EFHW?

[silverspawn]

faust does make a lot more sense as third party. His investigation of Haddock came across as very not-mafia to me.

We didn't even consider the possibility of mafia and SK targeting the same person, resulting in one nk.  And it happened twice!

The first time, though, it didn't actually lead to fewer kills, since I doctored the target. So if one of them targeted someone else, we'd still have only one kill.

[Roadrunner7671]

Come on! I did my part!!

[Cellovix]

Wow...

My safe claim was not safe at all if Silver was alive. Lucky!

[Roadrunner7671]

Also sorry Jan, I didn't say it but getting lynched off my blunder D1 probably sucks

[Haddock]

OMG. Well played Cellovix.  Really.  I hope it wasn't too easy for you.

faust was Sylar!

Far from easy!

Losing Jan on Day One was really rough, as it really neutered our power levels.  I made the executive decision to waste my vanilla-izing role because it'd have created too many IC's if it became obvious it was scum sided.

Town was really, really powerful mechanically, and Faust's role was apparently insanely strong too!

I was fortunate to pull out the win.  <3 to my teammates, to gkrieg for hosting, and for the town for being a pleasure to play with and making the game fun despite me being stuck playing scum, which I can't stand!

A very well deserved mvp.

Nailed it, Cello, well done.

I was willing you to revanillaise faust on that final night though. Him saying "I got Vanillaised. Again" wasn't gonna win him any town points.
Didn't matter.
Well played all.

[Haddock]

My QT.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JPRN3tdGw6V

[iguanaiguana]

Well, what's next for F.ds mafia? Do we have even a single game running or close to full?

[iguanaiguana]

I don't play dominion right now and I got voted out of forum survivor, so if there's no ongoing mafia games, I have no reason to go to this forum at all. Kind of a weird sad thought because I've been here a decently long time now.

[gkrieg13]

I don't play dominion right now and I got voted out of forum survivor, so if there's no ongoing mafia games, I have no reason to go to this forum at all. Kind of a weird sad thought because I've been here a decently long time now.

You can always sign up for soap opera 2

[iguanaiguana]

I don't play dominion right now and I got voted out of forum survivor, so if there's no ongoing mafia games, I have no reason to go to this forum at all. Kind of a weird sad thought because I've been here a decently long time now.

You can always sign up for soap opera 2

Ninjad

[EFHW]

Well, what's next for F.ds mafia? Do we have even a single game running or close to full?

start one!

[iguanaiguana]

Well, what's next for F.ds mafia? Do we have even a single game running or close to full?

start one!

Join soap opera! We'll have fun, maybe we can be scum partners.

[iguanaiguana]

Well, what's next for F.ds mafia? Do we have even a single game running or close to full?

start one!

Also, I'm planning to host the next forum survivor, so if anything I'll start working on the immunity challenges for that.

[Haddock]

Well, what's next for F.ds mafia? Do we have even a single game running or close to full?

Yes. BSG.  You're signed up for it and everything.

Please people sign up.... pretty please?

[Cellovix]

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/HXXFTNrJUEv

My QT, for what little I used it.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't play dominion right now and I got voted out of forum survivor, so if there's no ongoing mafia games, I have no reason to go to this forum at all. Kind of a weird sad thought because I've been here a decently long time now.

Religion, sex and politics! It's a great way to make new friends!

[faust]

THis sucks. I didn't even get to claim SK. Not fair!

[faust]

My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/mpzpMywpKF3

[faust]

I don't play dominion right now and I got voted out of forum survivor, so if there's no ongoing mafia games, I have no reason to go to this forum at all. Kind of a weird sad thought because I've been here a decently long time now.

Religion, sex and politics! It's a great way to make new friendslose your faith in humanity!

FTFY

[faust]

The main issue with my play is probably that I played with what looked like a mafia agenda, even though my plans were otherwise.

1) I didn't want to lynch Jan because I wanted to absorb his power.
2) I thought Haddock was town because I knew I was responsible for two of the nightkills J Reggie claimed to have seen. Plus, I also wanted his power.

Maybe I should have straight up claimed SK at the start of D6. I still hoped that iguana would see that Cellovix was that last mafia, because well, he was, so it should have been easier to make that case.

[faust]

Sorry Iguana.  You had a nasty Sophie's choice there the last day between me and the SK.

I no killed with 4 alive because I was pretty sure Faust had another kill - he was laying it on too thick that you were so, so town to bait me into shooting you.

Ironically town would've won if you had shot iguana.  You both would've shot each other the next night, and neither of your wincons would've been satisfied, and theirs would've been.

...Not true? If he had targeted iguana, he would have died, thanks to the power I inherited from silver, right?

[Haddock]

What a game.  Still buzzing.  Thanks gkrieg and well played all.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry Iguana.  You had a nasty Sophie's choice there the last day between me and the SK.

I no killed with 4 alive because I was pretty sure Faust had another kill - he was laying it on too thick that you were so, so town to bait me into shooting you.

Ironically town would've won if you had shot iguana.  You both would've shot each other the next night, and neither of your wincons would've been satisfied, and theirs would've been.

...Not true? If he had targeted iguana, he would have died, thanks to the power I inherited from silver, right?

Oh yeah. All those powers you had.

[fontisian]

Cello, you're filth.

You know why.

<3

[Cellovix]

Cello, you're filth.

You know why.

<3

You wound me.

I claimed scum to you with my sig, don't blame me because you're an easy mislynch!  <3

[Haddock]

Cello, you're filth.

You know why.

<3

Did you have a post restriction of some kind fonti? It made sense when you flipped "mute".

Anyone care to join bsg mafia?

[gkrieg13]

Cello, you're filth.

You know why.

<3

Did you have a post restriction of some kind fonti? It made sense when you flipped "mute".

Anyone care to join bsg mafia?

She didn't.