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Author Topic: The Necro Wars  (Read 356154 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4500 on: October 05, 2022, 09:58:14 am »

And here's an example.



This is a system of an object (black square) attached to a spring (and the spring is attached to a wall). To simplify, the spring is massless and perfect, and the whole thing is on a table with no friction. Furthermore, nothing here moves up or down, so we consider this as a system of only one dimension in space, the X dimension.

The only object we care about is the black square, which we treat as a single object with mass M. (So we pretend all mass is at a single point, rather than the system being made out of many particles.) So what we want to compute is the position function x describing the position of the square in terms of time t. We choose our coordinate system such that x = 0 corresponds to the position where the spring is relaxed, exerting no force.

Since this is a one-object system, we ought to be able to compute x(t) such that it has exactly two unknowns in it. Then if we also specified the initial position and velocity, we could obtain values for those two unknowns.

The first step (after choosing the coordinate system) is always the same: determine all forces acting on the object. Since we ignore the Y direction, there is only one force, that of the spring. Physics™ has found out that ideal springs exert a force linear to the displacement. Importantly, it's opposite to the displacement; if I pull the string right, the force draws it left; if I pull it left, the force draws it right. How strong the force is depends on the spring, and this is captured by a constant K. The unit here is newton per meter.

Therefore, the force is F = -K*x(t). The spring constant multiplied by the displacement. This is then newton/meter * meter, so gives a force in newton. This works without any additional constant since we've assumed x=0 is precisely the point where the spring is relaxed, so if x = 0, then F = -K*0 = 0.

Now we apply Newton's law F = m*a. Since our only force is the spring force, that means -K*x(t) = m*a. Since acceleration is really the second derivative of position, that means -K*x(t) = m*x''(t). Or rearranged,

x''(t) = -K/m * x(t)

This is a second-order differential equation. In particular, it says that, if we take the derivative of x twice, the sign becomes negative and it's multiplied by a constant. And there's a type of function that behaves exactly like this! It's the sin and cos function. If I take the derivative of cos(x) twice, I get -cos(x). If I take the derivative of cos(w * x) twice where w is a constant, I get -w^2 * cos(x). So if I define w = sqrt(K/m), then x(t) = cos(w*t) is a solution! x''(t) = -w^2 x(t) = -K/m * x(t), just as above.

However, just cos(w*t) isn't the only function that does this. I can also multiply it by a constant, and I can shift the phase by a constant. Neither will change the behavior with respect to taking derivatives.

So a more general solution is A * cos(w*t + P), with A and P constants.

Now there's a neat result from math that says that if we have a solution with two unknowns for this differential equation, it's the only solution. (Or rather, the only family of solutions, since it's really a set for each possible value of the unknowns.) That also makes sense physically, since we had a system with one object, hence 2 pieces of information are required, and without those we have 2 unknowns Note that cos may as well be sin since we allow arbitrary shifts of phase anyway. In fact, the equation A * cos(w*t + P) can be equivalently written as C * cos(w*t) + D*sin(w*t), where C and D are two different constants. It's the same family of solutions; each one can be transformed into the other one. But A * cos(w*t + P) is prettier because it shows that it's just a single trigonometric function with arbitrary phase and amplitude.

Alas, x(t) = A * cos(w*t + P), where A and P are unknown, t is time, and w= sqrt(K/m), where K is the spring constant and m the mass of my object.

That means the solution is a periodic motion around the initial position. The block will oscillate right and left indefinitely. And the reason why it does this is because the spring force is a restoring force; it always points back into the mid point. So as the object moves right it has kinetic energy (movement energy), which is converted into potential energy (stretching the spring). Then it's converted back as the string pulls. Then it's converted into potential energy again as the object moves left. And back into kinetic (movement) energy as it accelerates right. Since the total energy is conserved, this repeats forever.

Now if I specify initial position and velocity, I can solve for A and P. But first, one takes the derivative

x(t) = A * cos(w*t + P)
x'(t) = -Aw * sin(w*t + P)

For example, say the object starts at x=0 with no velocity. Then,

0 = x'(0) = -Aw * sin(0*t + P) = -Aw * sin(P). So either A = 0 or P = 0. If A = 0, then x(t) ≡ 0. If P = 0, then

0 = x(0) = A*cos(w*0 + P) = A*cos(0) = A.

So again A = 0 and hence x(t) ≡ 0. Meaning if I my system starts at x = 0 and with no velocity, it never moves. That makes sense!

Now assume instead no initial velocity but x(0) = C is some constant. Then again, 0 = x'(0) gives A = 0 or P = 0. But

C = x(0) = A*cos(w*0 + P) = A*cos(P)

yields a contradiction if A = 0. Hence P = 0. Therefore

C = A*cos(0) = A.

So in this case, my equation is

x(t) = C * cos(w*t). So the object oscillates in a perfect cosine curve with frequency w/2pi forever. (This doesn't mean it takes the shape of a cosine curve; it only goes left and right. Rather, the cosine curve is its position relative to time. There's no Y dimension in space!)

This is the mechanism underlying pendulums, swing sets, sound, electromagnetic waves, etc. Oh btw it's also the primary mechanism behind computation in the brain. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4501 on: October 05, 2022, 10:05:02 am »

Also one notes that the constants A and P only change amplitude an initial phase; they do not change the frequency. That means systems all have their unique frequency at which they want to vibrate. Isn't it beautiful?

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4502 on: October 06, 2022, 09:51:22 am »

I feel like at this point, talking more about Hans is boring because the evidence is now so obvious that I no longer get credibility points for being right that he cheated.

But it sure isn't obvious enough for most people. he still gets to play in for-money tournaments, which is utterly insane.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4503 on: October 06, 2022, 10:24:44 am »

Actually I change my mind, all of this is good since destroying competitive chess is going to be a net positive for society. Why would we want a game where top players spend 90% of their time on memorization? Go Hans!

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4504 on: October 08, 2022, 06:23:03 am »

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4505 on: October 08, 2022, 09:35:50 am »

I've heard Toby Driver (mastermind behind Kayo Dot) mention in an interview that he has gotten the idea for several songs in dreams, and here are the ones he named





Idk how much exactly he got out of the dream, but it's pretty cool either way. And I think all three of them are really good! None of them are among my absolute favorites, but all are probably top third.

The second and third also have quite unconventional structures, though this isn't that unusual for him.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4506 on: October 08, 2022, 09:37:02 am »

I feel like I'd listen to the mid section of spirit photography even if it were an hour long.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4507 on: October 08, 2022, 09:39:52 am »

That one in particular feels dreamlike

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4508 on: October 08, 2022, 11:05:45 am »

<rant>

Here are some of the most atrocious didactic crimes people commit.

"A normal equation is something like x + 5 = 6. We all know how to solve this. A differential equation is one where the variable is wrapped up in a differential. So dx/dt + 5 = 6. This somehow makes it harder to solve".

In a differential equation, THE UNKNOWN IS A FUNCTION RATHER THAN A NUMBER. Trying to point at the difference between normal and differential equations without mentioning this is so unbelievably daft to me. What does this say about how deeply the instructor has thought about the material?

"A differential equation of the form y' = f(x) ..."

What this actually means is that the right part of the equation is some expression depending on x. But writing f(x) is not the same as writing the corresponding explicit term, obviously! Imagine if you'd write f(x) = f(x) instead of f(x) = x^2. Or if you literally wrote "solve the differential equation y' = f(x)" in a textbook exercise. People would justifiably ??? at that.

In the above, f(x) is a placeholder for the explicit term. It's like the reader is supposed to apply the function to the term at the level of the notation. This is very different from what f(x) usually means! Usually the function itself exists as an object. Equivocating between these two is so sloppy! How can you do this when introducing a topic of the first time? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Not to mention that f(x,y) is used in the same way, which makes the analogy even sketchier since functions usually can't take variables and other functions as inputs.

</rant>

But it all has a happy ending because I eventually found this video series to differential equations, which is really good! Unlike all the others I've found before.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4509 on: October 08, 2022, 11:12:06 am »

Like what is your job as an instructor if not to clarify stuff like this? Otherwise, what's the benefit of having a lecture vs. just looking at the equations?

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4510 on: October 08, 2022, 01:26:24 pm »

@silver: Do you think, or find it plausible, that YouTube's recommendation algorithm is picking up on the fact that some people are easily radicalized, and then basically "intentionally" radicalizing those people by recommending them always ever so slightly more extreme content than the content they've been consuming so far, to drag them deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole but in small enough increments to never set off their alarms, basically just because radicalized people will spend more time watching YouTube videos and so the algorithm has learned that it should do this to increase engagement?
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Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4511 on: October 08, 2022, 01:27:29 pm »

Actually if anyone besides silver has any opinions, I'd like to hear them too.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4512 on: October 08, 2022, 02:08:22 pm »

@silver: Do you think, or find it plausible, that YouTube's recommendation algorithm is picking up on the fact that some people are easily radicalized, and then basically "intentionally" radicalizing those people by recommending them always ever so slightly more extreme content than the content they've been consuming so far, to drag them deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole but in small enough increments to never set off their alarms, basically just because radicalized people will spend more time watching YouTube videos and so the algorithm has learned that it should do this to increase engagement?

Yes. According to Stuart Russel, that's exactly what's happening. And it seems plausible that an ML algorithm finds that strategy

But it doesn't require any ill intent

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4513 on: October 08, 2022, 02:08:48 pm »

Lovely chess puzzle. White to Move. Find the only move that doesn't mate in 1.

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4514 on: October 08, 2022, 02:27:49 pm »

Rc6
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4515 on: October 08, 2022, 03:14:18 pm »

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4516 on: October 09, 2022, 01:53:23 am »

@silver: Do you think, or find it plausible, that YouTube's recommendation algorithm is picking up on the fact that some people are easily radicalized, and then basically "intentionally" radicalizing those people by recommending them always ever so slightly more extreme content than the content they've been consuming so far, to drag them deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole but in small enough increments to never set off their alarms, basically just because radicalized people will spend more time watching YouTube videos and so the algorithm has learned that it should do this to increase engagement?

Yes. According to Stuart Russel, that's exactly what's happening. And it seems plausible that an ML algorithm finds that strategy

But it doesn't require any ill intent
Arguably "increase engagement" is already ill intent.

I wonder how incremental the process even is. From what I've heard, you can end up far down the rabbit hole pretty quickly.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4517 on: October 14, 2022, 06:05:38 am »

Without looking it up, what's the speed of sound in water?

It's about 1.5 meters per second. Isn't that crazy?

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4518 on: October 14, 2022, 09:47:06 am »

In these dark times, it is imperative that we all don't forget that Hillary used to have a private email server.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4519 on: October 14, 2022, 09:47:46 am »

You may all thank me for having reminded you of this crucial fact

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4520 on: October 15, 2022, 06:24:01 am »

Imagine that I start to become inactive now. in a few months, someone may post in the thread and claim victory for the longest necro, but it's half-hearted, not the same anymore, so the thread never comes to life. Thus for the rest of time, the latest message is about Hillary's email server.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4521 on: October 15, 2022, 06:26:09 am »

Alas, we're not there yet.

I thought I had to do a lot of work to demonstrate that animals produce rythmic patterns for walking and such, but it turns out this is totally mainstream! It's called the Central Pattern Generator

Quote
CPGs have been found in invertebrates,[7] and practically all vertebrate species investigated,[8][9] including humans.[10][11][12]

So everyone agrees that we have a module in the brain that produces oscillatory patterns, yet common wisdom is that this exact module doesn't use a physical oscillator. But why on earth wouldn't it? ???

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4522 on: October 15, 2022, 06:29:46 am »

Quote
Most spontaneous deletions observed during fictive
locomotion are characterized, however, by a maintenance
of the phase of locomotor oscillations after the deletion
(Lafreniere-Roula & McCrea, 2005). Thus the bursts of
motoneurone activity that re-emerge after a deletion often
occur at an integer number of the missing locomotor
periods. In other words, the post-deletion motoneurone
bursts appear at the times which would have been expected
if the deletion had not occurred (i.e. the locomotor
rhythm is not reset) (Lafreniere-Roula & McCrea, 2005).
These observations suggest that the internal structure of
the CPG can ‘remember’ and maintain the locomotor
cycle period when motoneurone activity falls silent.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF...

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4523 on: October 15, 2022, 08:00:58 am »

Current winner: Everyone

Everyone has been the canonical winner since 2017, so there would be no point in someone claiming victory for the longest necro.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4524 on: October 15, 2022, 10:58:46 am »

Take a look at this: https://twitter.com/dsya_haryana/status/1581113618661113856

It's a really clever scam. The person pretends to be Elon Musk and to do a crypto giveaway. I think the way it works is that you're asked to send X BTC or ETH to an address, and then receive 2X back (but ofc you really get nothing back). And then they have a bunch of bot accounts replying with compliments and saying that it worked.

I've never fallen for a crypto scam, but the one that came closest was something similar, where it was a livestream of musk and some other people talking about crypto and announcing the same kind of giveaway on the screen. Except it was really just "live" streaming a conversation that happened earlier on a different account. But it's clever because it bypasses some of the usual red flags of scams.

Of course, "no one gives money away ever so if they do it's a scam" still works.
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