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[2.71828.....]

Actually I was wrong.  First thing Ampharos does is gets off Hydrad and onto Awaclus.  Then a lot of nothing, says almost nothing about Hydrad.

It seems much more plausible than how I remembered it.

This is your "retraction" from using teproc as a case for why ampharos is town. I just don't buy it. I know as soon as I took over from Yuma I opened with a vote, then settled on hydrad. Distancing myself from yuma's reads and everything he was involved in.

I could see the same thing from ampharos. And who changes reads more than town? It's not like teproc was bussing a partner then ampharos decided not to.

No ampharos is town the same as teproc was town

[Witherweaver]

It's not like teproc was bussing a partner then ampharos decided not to.

Why not?

[2.71828.....]

It's not like teproc was bussing a partner then ampharos decided not to.

Why not?

When I went back rereading after the hydrad flip, I looked for posts by/about hydrad by anyone. And there weren't any. Well, obviously not, but there were not many. Most were concerned with qts and other such nonsense.

That being said, what is easier: ignore the partner or actually bring him up as someone to lynch. No one was a lynch candidate at that point. Teproc was bringing hydrad into that discussion. I don't see that as D1 bussing style

[Witherweaver]

It's not like teproc was bussing a partner then ampharos decided not to.

Why not?

When I went back rereading after the hydrad flip, I looked for posts by/about hydrad by anyone. And there weren't any. Well, obviously not, but there were not many. Most were concerned with qts and other such nonsense.

That being said, what is easier: ignore the partner or actually bring him up as someone to lynch. No one was a lynch candidate at that point. Teproc was bringing hydrad into that discussion. I don't see that as D1 bussing style

I'm not sure I agree about Teproc.  It's a fairly safe thing to do, there is still a ton of day left and no real wagon, so Hydrad was in little danger of getting lynched.  And Hydrad is a common D1 mislynch, so some people are motivated to look elsewhere.  It's fairly safe bus. 

It didn't really seem too suspicious to me until I read Ampharos (after reading Teproc).  Ampharos doesn't do a lot of note and doesn't do anything regarding Hydrad.

[Haddock]

Vote Count 2.4

Custard: A detestable substance produced by a malevolent conspiracy of the hen, the cow, and the cook.

RR (2): Lekkit, Awaclus
WW (1): 2.7
chairs (2): Ampharos, faust
Ampharos (5): SS, ADK, chairs, RR, WW (L-1)

Not Voting (1): EgorK

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day will end at 9am on the 19th of February, forum time.

[faust]

ohhhh right. I didn't want to vote for Amph because he replaced Teproc. I forgot that.

But now, you'll just keep him at L-1? 

[faust]

The Ampharos wagon is truly awful. ADK is confirmed town, okay. Literally everyone else on the wagon is a scumread.

[faust]

So WW made post that shows good evidence that teproc (ampharos) is not hydrad's partner. He then proceeds to vote ampharos when it gets more momentum.

Scum is desperate

Vote: WW

Word.

[faust]

I can probably compose at longish case as to why Ampharos is town. Just not now, I'm going to sleep. Don't do the stupid thing.

[faust]

And Hydrad is a common D1 mislynch, so some people are motivated to look elsewhere.

I will say that this is a bad argument. One could also say that I am a "safe bus" because I never get lynched D1. So then everyone is a safe bus, the people who are often lynched and those whose a rarely lynched. Except... a bus is not safe.

[faust]

It didn't really seem too suspicious to me until I read Ampharos (after reading Teproc).  Ampharos doesn't do a lot of note and doesn't do anything regarding Hydrad.

If "not doing anything of note" is your metirc for finding scum, you should be voting for Egor.

[silverspawn]

ohhhh right. I didn't want to vote for Amph because he replaced Teproc. I forgot that.

But now, you'll just keep him at L-1? 

yeah.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Egor

[Awaclus]

Vote: RR

Oh wait, I already am.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: RR

Oh wait, I already am.

This is excellent.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The Ampharos wagon is truly awful. ADK is confirmed town, okay. Literally everyone else on the wagon is a scumread.

I think you should reconsider. What has Amph done that's so towny?

[Witherweaver]

It didn't really seem too suspicious to me until I read Ampharos (after reading Teproc).  Ampharos doesn't do a lot of note and doesn't do anything regarding Hydrad.

If "not doing anything of note" is your metirc for finding scum, you should be voting for Egor.

I'm pretty sure I wanted to lynch him on Day 1, and no one else did~

[Witherweaver]

And Hydrad is a common D1 mislynch, so some people are motivated to look elsewhere.

I will say that this is a bad argument. One could also say that I am a "safe bus" because I never get lynched D1. So then everyone is a safe bus, the people who are often lynched and those whose a rarely lynched. Except... a bus is not safe.

Thing is it's safe when it's the beginning of Day 1.

[faust]

So this is why Ampharos is town.

1. Teproc had a little townslip thing going on. See here:

Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

No. Take, for instance, a setup where scum has JOAT/Goon. One of those setups has a Tracker, and one has a Commuter, both roles that cannot appear together with Fruit Vendor. So if scum were to claim Fruit Vendor, they would immediately get countered. You can go through all scenarios and see that there will always be the chance of a counterclaim.

Right, I'm dumb.

So scum certainly thinks about which fakeclaims are safe on N0. I guess not all scum do, but I'm confident that Teproc does. I just finished modding a game with Teproc, and we both thought scum should analyze the setup more. So assuming Teproc is scum, I am pretty sure that he knows that no fakeclaim is safe. Which means the above post can only be fabricated or come from town!Teproc. Teproc just doesn't seem like the guy that fabricates townslips.

2. Teproc is pushing for Hydrad pretty hard. So if he's scum, that would be a bus. I don't think it's "easy" or "early D1"; scum!Teproc is talking himself into a position from which it will be hard to argue against a Hydrad lynch when it happens. It's not out of the question that scum busses Hydrad - after all, he only was a Goon and thus the least important member of the team - but if that's your plan, you certainly talked about it in the mafia QT. Now let's assume this talk happened. Mafia agrees to bus Hydrad. Once Ampharos takes over, for sure he reads the QT. Would he just ignore the plan there and start voting for someone else, never returning to Hydrad? I don't think so. Ampharos' switch is actually evidence that he is town.

3. The wagon. I mean, seriously. silverspawn starts it for really weak reasoning that applies to at least 2 other players in this game. (that vote is sill fine mind you, it's the first vote on Amph after all) The IC joins in. Ony then do people start to sheep - and who? chairs, who is just as guilty of the things Ampharos is accused of, and who needs to divert attention from the wagon that is forming on himself, RR who also is a major lynch candidate today, Ww who just quoted evidence that Teproc is town. That is not a wagon I want to be on even without the above points.

So I believe all of this should maybe not convince you that Ampharos is town, but at least give solid reasons why Ampharos is a bad lynch for today.

[Ampharos]

Woah dudes I legit forgot I was playing yesterday (could be to do with the cold I was in bed most of the day with ).  Maybe I should go away more often; things get fun! 

Thanks faust for spelling it all out and saving me the trouble

And yes, Chairs is "teh feelz". 

[silverspawn]

You know, I agree. Like I said, I had forgotten that he replaced Teproc.

But... ah, yeez. None of what amph has done all game is even remotely towny (note that neither of your points is about his own play). nonetheless, unvote, vote: chairs

[silverspawn]

can't believe I'm actually sheeping faust.

[faust]

But... ah, yeez. None of what amph has done all game is even remotely towny (note that neither of your points is about his own play). nonetheless, unvote, vote: chairs

Yes.If it weren't for Teproc, my read on Ampharos would be different for sure. But then again, Ampharos has a relatively scummy meta.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So this is why Ampharos is town.

1. Teproc had a little townslip thing going on. See here:

Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

No. Take, for instance, a setup where scum has JOAT/Goon. One of those setups has a Tracker, and one has a Commuter, both roles that cannot appear together with Fruit Vendor. So if scum were to claim Fruit Vendor, they would immediately get countered. You can go through all scenarios and see that there will always be the chance of a counterclaim.

Right, I'm dumb.

So scum certainly thinks about which fakeclaims are safe on N0. I guess not all scum do, but I'm confident that Teproc does. I just finished modding a game with Teproc, and we both thought scum should analyze the setup more. So assuming Teproc is scum, I am pretty sure that he knows that no fakeclaim is safe. Which means the above post can only be fabricated or come from town!Teproc. Teproc just doesn't seem like the guy that fabricates townslips.

You don't think it's possible that Teproc analyzed the setup, and then got it wrong?

[faust]

You don't think it's possible that Teproc analyzed the setup, and then got it wrong?

I don't think scum would come to the conclusion that Fruit Vendor would be a safe fakeclaim, especially given the additional setup information that they have. Also,if Teproc was scum, he would not do this on his own, but instead he would be peer-reviewed by two scum partners.

I guess it's possible, but not likely. Which is all that matters right now.