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[Teproc]

Yeah, I'll put it out there now : if you've got a role countering ADK, claim now. I don't care that you're likely to die, lynching scum on day 1 is way too good to pass up, and I for one won't believe you on day 2.

[Teproc]

So, assuming no one counterclaims...

There are about a billion setups where this is a safe fakeclaim for scum. So... not much towncred for ADK there as long as there isn't another PR or scum flip.

If ADK is town, it means
- Fruit Vendor + Watcher + Cop + 7 VTs vs JOAT + Roleblocker + Goon
- Fruit Vendor + JK + Even-night Tracker + 7VTs vs Rolecop + 2-shot Strongman + Goon

[Teproc]

The nice thing about Fruit Vendor is that it's super easy to check right ? The difference with Visitor is that the player who gets targeted gets a fruit right ? So... I mean scum can roleblock ADK if that's what they have, but that means they let Watcher and Cop have their fun.

So actually it does give a lot of towncred to ADK here, since it's a pretty bad fakeclaim longterm.

[faust]

There are about a billion setups where this is a safe fakeclaim for scum. So... not much towncred for ADK there as long as there isn't another PR or scum flip.

This is wrong. Name one setup where this is a safe claim for scum.

[faust]

Vote: Teproc for now.

[faust]

Or actually no, I prefer voting someone else I think. Vote: RR?

[Teproc]

Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

[Teproc]

On that note, unvote

[faust]

Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

No. Take, for instance, a setup where scum has JOAT/Goon. One of those setups has a Tracker, and one has a Commuter, both roles that cannot appear together with Fruit Vendor. So if scum were to claim Fruit Vendor, they would immediately get countered. You can go through all scenarios and see that there will always be the chance of a counterclaim.

[Teproc]

Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

No. Take, for instance, a setup where scum has JOAT/Goon. One of those setups has a Tracker, and one has a Commuter, both roles that cannot appear together with Fruit Vendor. So if scum were to claim Fruit Vendor, they would immediately get countered. You can go through all scenarios and see that there will always be the chance of a counterclaim.

Right, I'm dumb.

[faust]

Well, the plus side is that in addition to an IC, we have a townslip now.

[Roadrunner7671]

Or actually no, I prefer voting someone else I think. Vote: RR?

Whyy?

[yuma]

Thanks captain obvious. But why can't they out scum tomorrow after using their pr once during the night?

Or the next day after using it twice.

I realize this is an unlikely scenario as ADK is likely town or scum who somehow knows it is a safe claim (I think that isn't possible but should double check) but still... We are in day1. Waiting to claim is a feasible option.

Well yes. But it's all about timing. Claiming such a thing when you end up at L-1 is bad, and it is a situation I like to avoid.

Why would they wait til they are L-1?

[yuma]

Yeah, I'll put it out there now : if you've got a role countering ADK, claim now. I don't care that you're likely to die, lynching scum on day 1 is way too good to pass up, and I for one won't believe you on day 2.

This is ridiculous and non-optimal.

Vote: teproc just cause I am annoyed.

[Teproc]

Yeah, I'll put it out there now : if you've got a role countering ADK, claim now. I don't care that you're likely to die, lynching scum on day 1 is way too good to pass up, and I for one won't believe you on day 2.

This is ridiculous and non-optimal.

Vote: teproc just cause I am annoyed.

How so ? How is lynching scum on day 1 suboptimal ?

[Teproc]

Not that it's going to happen anyway, but still.

[yuma]

Well, the plus side is that in addition to an IC, we have a townslip now.

I missed it. Want to point it out for those of us with a subpar understanding of mafia dynamics?

[yuma]

Yeah, I'll put it out there now : if you've got a role countering ADK, claim now. I don't care that you're likely to die, lynching scum on day 1 is way too good to pass up, and I for one won't believe you on day 2.

This is ridiculous and non-optimal.

Vote: teproc just cause I am annoyed.

How so ? How is lynching scum on day 1 suboptimal ?

Not what I said. Reading. Man. Reading.

[faust]

Thanks captain obvious. But why can't they out scum tomorrow after using their pr once during the night?

Or the next day after using it twice.

I realize this is an unlikely scenario as ADK is likely town or scum who somehow knows it is a safe claim (I think that isn't possible but should double check) but still... We are in day1. Waiting to claim is a feasible option.

Well yes. But it's all about timing. Claiming such a thing when you end up at L-1 is bad, and it is a situation I like to avoid.

Why would they wait til they are L-1?

You suggested they wait until D2 or D3. They might end up at L-1 (or in a similar pressured position) before that. If they do, it's bad news.

Also continuing this discussion is pretty useless given that ADK is like 99% town. Vote: yuma

[Teproc]

As always, the assumption is that if someone disagrees, it's because they didn't read your post or didn't understand it.

No. I just disagree. Waiting for day 2 makes the counterclaim more likely to be scum, becuase 1 for 1 trades get better for scum as the game progresses. A counterclaim should generally happen as fast as possible, because lynching scum on day 1 is better than lynching scum on day 3.

[faust]

Well, the plus side is that in addition to an IC, we have a townslip now.

I missed it. Want to point it out for those of us with a subpar understanding of mafia dynamics?

Scum is much more likely to think about which fakeclaim may or may not work. It's something I always do N0. Teproc however wasn't clear on that. So to me he is either town or it's faked. I don't take scum!Teproc as one to fake townslips.

Also I see no need for passive-aggressive posting.

[yuma]

Well, the plus side is that in addition to an IC, we have a townslip now.

I missed it. Want to point it out for those of us with a subpar understanding of mafia dynamics?

Scum is much more likely to think about which fakeclaim may or may not work. It's something I always do N0. Teproc however wasn't clear on that. So to me he is either town or it's faked. I don't take scum!Teproc as one to fake townslips.

Also I see no need for passive-aggressive posting.

Fine.

Post.

[gkrieg13]

vote: yuma

[yuma]

As tempting as it would be to do the post thing again or to do something even less anti-town, self vote, I won't.

Vote: Faust

I think one or both of he and teproc is scum. I get the vibe of them trying to push me out of being level headed and see if they can get me/town to self destruct for an easy day1 lynch where they can point the blame at me afterward. And as fun as that sounds, i always play toward my win con despite beliefs to the contary. Right now I think Faust is more likely. But I could go either way.

[Awaclus]

If you are someone who writes a lot in his QT's, like me, the only way to believably maintain a towny image when playing scum in a game with this ruling is to have 2 separate QT's running and fabricate town!me thoughts in one of them.

Preferably more than 2, so that you can have one where you fabricate VT thoughts, another one where you fabricate PR thoughts, yet another one where you fabricate another PR thoughts, etc. And even if you aren't someone who writes a lot in QTs, you kind of have to do it anyway just because the townies who actually write in their QTs will still have an advantage over you unless you do. It just adds insane crap tons of work that scum has to put in in order to play optimally, and it's really just work you have to do, not an entertaining pastime.

As tempting as it would be to do the post thing again or to do something even less anti-town, self vote, I won't.

Vote: Faust

I think one or both of he and teproc is scum. I get the vibe of them trying to push me out of being level headed and see if they can get me/town to self destruct for an easy day1 lynch where they can point the blame at me afterward. And as fun as that sounds, i always play toward my win con despite beliefs to the contary. Right now I think Faust is more likely. But I could go either way.

What? 

Vote: yuma