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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part III  (Read 645961 times)

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Watno

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #525 on: March 12, 2016, 08:44:38 am »
0

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.
Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #526 on: March 12, 2016, 09:51:34 am »
0

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #527 on: March 12, 2016, 12:42:12 pm »
+1

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?  Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption is an example.  In the novel, his character was specifically and unambiguously stated to be Irish (like, white-skin, red-head Irish, hence the name, 'Red').  The movie makes a reference to this (there is a line by Freeman, "Maybe because I'm Irish" about his name), which I always thought was extremely clever. 

Also, one of the best (or just the best?) adaptations of a book to screen. 
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eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #528 on: March 12, 2016, 01:05:35 pm »
0

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Quote
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)


I'm going to assume this is where they're running from werewolves and dementors. I could easily see someone describing someone's face as white if you're being chased by crazy stuff. BUT I think this shows that Rowling thought of Hermione as light skinned. But I don't think it's her intentional way of saying "she's definately white, guys! I'll point to this later!".

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

Quote
They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

And definition 5 of "white" from dictionary.com:

Quote
pallid or pale, as from fear or other strong emotion: white with rage.

This fits the context of the scene where that description is used.

This outrage just reminds me of all the people complaining that Rue in Hunger Games was played by a black girl even though she was explicitly described as such in the books.  It's a little more understandable here since Hermione's race is ambiguous, but still.

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?  Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption is an example.  In the novel, his character was specifically and unambiguously stated to be Irish (like, white-skin, red-head Irish, hence the name, 'Red').  The movie makes a reference to this (there is a line by Freeman, "Maybe because I'm Irish" about his name), which I always thought was extremely clever.

Also, one of the best (or just the best?) adaptations of a book to screen. 

Almost all (or actually all?) of the main characters in Earthsea are black.  This was not necessarily important to the plot (I read it long ago) but it was important to the author, who noted the near-complete lack of POC main characters in fantasy and sci-fi and strove to do better in her work.

IIRC, a TV mini-series for Earthsea was produced and pretty much the entire cast was white-washed.  Maybe they could argue that the actors were the right ones for the job, except they were kind of bland and terrible?  I'm not sure, I did not watch the series and I'm only half-remembering the discussion from when this was current news.


Regarding the point about Morgan Freeman, the problem is that Hollywood has a long history of casting white actors to play POC.  Some examples that come to mind are The Last Airbender and pretty much every single Hollywood film set in ancient Egypt.  When this happens and POC complain, the overwhelming response tends to be "it's an interpretation" or "they're just the best actor for the role", etc.  When the reverse happens and a non-white actor is cast in a role traditionally perceived as white, those same people freak out.  And note that this is far less common.
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Haddock

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #529 on: March 12, 2016, 01:19:49 pm »
+1


Quote

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

Quote
They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.
I don't have a problem with a black Hermione. At all.

But I wanted to chime in to say that this argument doesn't work so much.
If I remember rightly this quote is from immediately after Hermione has been on holiday somewhere beachy.  It's a comment on her tan.  So really it supports the idea that she's canonically white.  Otherwise commenting on her tan wouldn't really be a thing.
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #530 on: March 12, 2016, 01:22:48 pm »
+2

Adding more fuel to the fire

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #531 on: March 12, 2016, 01:41:35 pm »
0

This outrage just reminds me of all the people complaining that Rue in Hunger Games was played by a black girl even though she was explicitly described as such in the books.  It's a little more understandable here since Hermione's race is ambiguous, but still.
That's not the same, that's the opposite. Rue would have sucked were she white in the movie.

And if someone is looking 'Very brown' that's even another indicator for her being white, since she was just on a vacation in France--- if she was brown anyway, it wouldn't make sense to say it in that context.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #532 on: March 12, 2016, 01:42:36 pm »
0

and her race is not ambigious. even if she has not done it on purpose, saying she has a white face means she's white, end of story.

Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #533 on: March 12, 2016, 01:45:37 pm »
0

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ashersky

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #534 on: March 12, 2016, 02:05:56 pm »
+1

Patrick Stewart played Othello as well.
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #535 on: March 12, 2016, 02:08:49 pm »
0

http://www.yourdictionary.com/white-faced

Yes. It's a saying. It's a saying that became popular among white people. Do you honestly think a black person would describe another black person as white faced if he had just been scared? Obviously it it's a thing of our culture.

Plus they're on the covers. I can't believe we're really having this argument.

Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #536 on: March 12, 2016, 02:49:03 pm »
+1

http://www.yourdictionary.com/white-faced

Yes. It's a saying. It's a saying that became popular among white people. Do you honestly think a black person would describe another black person as white faced if he had just been scared? Obviously it it's a thing of our culture.

Plus they're on the covers. I can't believe we're really having this argument.


If it's in the context of being scared, white-face means pale, as in the reddish color from normal blood flow has left your face.  Contrast to flush, where your face is red from increased flow.  This is a human thing, not a racial thing, though obviously not noticeable the lighter someone's skin is.

This argument isn't about Hermione's imagined race by the author, which I couldn't care less about, but about your misappropriation of phrases.

Also, as an aside, you should try not being racist some time and see how it suits you.
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ashersky

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #537 on: March 12, 2016, 02:52:03 pm »
+7

Someone start a Black Hermoine thread in RSP and take this there, please.
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #538 on: March 12, 2016, 03:21:48 pm »
+2

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KingZog3

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #539 on: March 12, 2016, 03:37:12 pm »
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Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

I wouldn't say you have to cast a black guy; you only need to portray the character as being black, given that it's important.  If casting a black actor is your way of doing it, fine.  If you want to do it in another way (that works), fine.

This is close to RSP, but this means black face is ok. It's not really ok.
EDIT:
Someone start a Black Hermoine thread in RSP and take this there, please.

Oops. I didn't read this. I'll move to RSP if there's a thread there now.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 03:38:18 pm by KingZog3 »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #540 on: March 12, 2016, 03:52:41 pm »
+2



But what will it do to my Saturday???
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #541 on: March 12, 2016, 03:56:44 pm »
0

the balloon popped so your Saturday will have to go unmade
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #542 on: March 12, 2016, 04:07:22 pm »
0



Lord Bottington and his family are playing with rats.

Watno

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #543 on: March 12, 2016, 05:18:10 pm »
0

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?
Stuff like this:
Quote
The zoo trip took place on Saturday, but Dudley's eleventh birthday (June 23, 1991) actually was on a Sunday.
(http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mistakes_in_the_Harry_Potter_books, there are many more exampls there)
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #544 on: March 12, 2016, 05:23:54 pm »
0

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?
Stuff like this:
Quote
The zoo trip took place on Saturday, but Dudley's eleventh birthday (June 23, 1991) actually was on a Sunday.
(http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mistakes_in_the_Harry_Potter_books, there are many more exampls there)

Oh, I see. Interesting.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #545 on: March 12, 2016, 06:55:53 pm »
+2

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?
I suspect it was an example of Harry Potter being unoriginal.

A Wizard of Earthsea is an Ursula K. Le Guin novel about a kid who goes to wizard school (then other stuff happens). It's been some years but I remember liking it. It of course predates Harry Potter by decades. And someone asked the author what she thought of Harry Potter, and she said something like, well I don't feel ripped off or anything, but I don't know why anyone says Rowling is original.

A Wizard of Earthsea also has this concept of things having names that give you power over them, which The Name of the Wind uses.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #546 on: March 12, 2016, 08:47:47 pm »
0

Interesting.
I knew it!
This is getting to be a lot of work.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #547 on: March 12, 2016, 11:13:27 pm »
0

Earthsea is super better than Harry Potter.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #548 on: March 12, 2016, 11:25:21 pm »
0

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?
I suspect it was an example of Harry Potter being unoriginal.

A Wizard of Earthsea is an Ursula K. Le Guin novel about a kid who goes to wizard school (then other stuff happens). It's been some years but I remember liking it. It of course predates Harry Potter by decades. And someone asked the author what she thought of Harry Potter, and she said something like, well I don't feel ripped off or anything, but I don't know why anyone says Rowling is original.

A Wizard of Earthsea also has this concept of things having names that give you power over them, which The Name of the Wind uses.

This rates levels of interest meriting comment.

I remembered I had seen this idea (power through names) used by other authors as well.  I think it comes up in the Dresden series.
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Awaclus

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #549 on: March 12, 2016, 11:44:34 pm »
0

I remembered I had seen this idea (power through names) used by other authors as well.  I think it comes up in the Dresden series.

Before Christianity, people in Finland actually believed in power through names (EDIT: in the sense that if you knew the true name of iron, for example, you could touch a piece of hot iron and it couldn't burn you).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:30:04 am by Awaclus »
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