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[silverspawn]

halfway through my reread of musical... I really hope I'm not imagining that, because I know he's scum there, but he feels really different. Like, "look, I'm participating, look, I'm making cases" - that's the kind of vibe I get from him. I didn't get that from him at all this game.

It's hard though, because the way I think Hydrad approaches games is that he is just kind of passive-ish and friendly as town, and pretty much like that too as scum. He doesn't change his mentality much, and that way his style is also rather similar.

Still, I reads insincere there. And, nothing out of character in that game.

Also, lots of smileys and !'s

[silverspawn]

another note: lots of comments about how people perceive him/his meta in that game, and none here.

also a lot of comments about game unrelated things, but I think that's normal for him.

[silverspawn]

lots of comments about how people perceive him...

[silverspawn]

Yeah, man, he's different. This actually makes me feel much more confident about this game. If I am really tricked this game I can't even be mad at myself. Hopefully.

[silverspawn]

finished... I wanted to pay attention to his interaction with scum buddies too. I forgot. Meh.

[silverspawn]

Gosh, that took long. alright, now I have to remove the quotes...

by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?

also, why did you kill me so early in that  game?

[silverspawn]

Musical Mafia Stats:
Number of Posts: 96
Average Length: 167
Votes: 8
Unvotes: 0

[silverspawn]

was it really only 167? His posts felt long. that makes his fish mafia length look pretty huge.

I also looked at the people he quoted, and he does have a fair bit of interaction with his scum partners (based on that alone). Most of that was WW pressuring him and him responding, but still, I feel like that nullifies the argument for this game.

[silverspawn]

Let's also look at the amount of posts relative to the game size. Let me put the stats together again...

Holiday:
Number of Posts: 49
Average Length: 134
Votes: 6
Unvotes: 2

Musical:
Number of Posts: 96
Average Length: 167
Votes: 8
Unvotes: 0


Here, we have 40 pages, 12 players and 49 posts. that's ~1,2 posts per page with 12 players
Musical had 51 pages, 13 players and 96 posts. that's ~1,9 posts per page with 13 players.

Yeah, that's almost twice the activity.

[silverspawn]

So... I think that's about all I have to say for Hydrad. Conclusion: I think he's town. I'll do sudgy too, but I'm pretty confident now.

sudgy, you are free to argue why I'm wrong, if you have anything to say about hydrad. If not I'll have to see how your reread goes.

[sudgy]

Alright, starting my reread.  I am pretty sure silverspawn is town, because I had a townread on him for a while, and I think scum doesn't care as much trying to find scum as he is today.

[sudgy]

Just reread silverspawn, I am not voting him today.  I am going to Vote: Hydrad because I've seen enough to be certain enough about it.  Silverspawn, if you're scum, gg, but I don't think so.

Now, I'm going to build a case on Hydrad.  But first, silver, here's a few posts where you say I'm town just to remind you what you've been thinking about me (all more recent because you didn't say much about me at first) (also, I know it's weird to quote you to you, but I've been surprised by how much I've gotten reminded of my own posts from rereading, so here goes):

short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town

so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.

As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it.  But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.

We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason.  I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.

well you're wrong, because I'm town and I don't think sudgy is scum.

The statement is pretty ridiculous too, because sudgy was pushing both scum before they died. Why should I be more confident about him than I am about you?

[long post arguing pro joseph lynch]

Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?

I still think we should lynch Joseph.  If he's scum, we lynch scum.  If he's town, we save his shot.  Even if you think he's town (I don't) you should see that his lynch is good.

Hey ash, I don't think silverspawn is happening, and you seem to be fine with Joseph.  Join us!

Day 2:

I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.

I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday.  When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.

So... how is Hydrad better than sudgy?

Well, one of us, probably me, is going to die in the next night, so I think some final words are in order before we hammer no-lynch?

I think it's Hydrad > ash > sudgy for the last scum. Maybe everyone could make this list.

[sudgy]

Alright, for starters, here's what I had posted before:

yay for stuff happening!

I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.

Also silver when do you plan on actually voting

I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.

This is when Joseph is not getting lynched.  It's a perfect way to distance yourself if nothing comes of this, but then this happens later:

oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!

I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.

unvote for now.

Not only does he unvote his partner, he still says he thinks they're scum but doesn't want to lynch him.

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.

If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.

Interesting I didn't think of that.

In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor is lynching him maybe the correct move? Hes already outed so him living till tomorrow isn't very likely unless we have a doctor in the game so his 1 shot isn't really useful at all. But if we lynch him then our UB should at least be able to use that 1 shot well.

Still saying to lynch Joseph, but not actually doing anything about it.

Vote: Joseph

This is when Joseph is back to one vote.  Yay, more voting when he won't get lynched!

To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways

As I said before, "Let's not lynch my partner!"

Leaving for about 1 hour. should be back before deadline. If something happens and Joseph gets to live I should be around to get a lynch through. But I still like Joseph the most right now.

This could be town or it could be scum realizing Joseph is getting lynched and deciding to just stick with it for towncred (or hoping deadline passes).  In the end, this doesn't say anything.

Vote: awaclus

sounds good to me

Here again it's obvious that Awaclus isn't getting lynched, so it's fine to vote for him too.  It's almost the exact same thing as he did with Joseph.

I agree lets wait a moment before we lynch people today.

"Yeah we just had quickhammers let's not lynch him yet so we can switch to someone else"

I'm also fine with a Vote: sudgy

I still think this vote was scummy...

Ah I was worried about this :/.

Now I have to find a way to convince you guys I'm not scum.

Because that's all scum cares about.

[sudgy]

tl;dr Hydrads voting patterns for Joseph and Awaclus were scummy and the same for both of them.

[sudgy]

I completely forgot to defend myself from this post:

Here is where I think sudgy is scummy.

Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people?  Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.

This is when we first started the awaclus lynch and looks like hes trying to save him.

I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.

Then it feels like he realizes his partner is going down so he slowly starts moving towards being on the lynching side.

I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday.  When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.

This was before WW hammered.

Overall this looks much scummier then SS so ya I think I can trust you this game SS.

This is an incredibly weak case, based on one small interaction when my case against you is way larger and based on multiple things.  I agree that this could seem scummy, but it can also come from town too.  I think scum actually would be against lynching their second partner, and definitely not being against it at first and switching.

[sudgy]

Reply to silverspawn's saying Hydrad is town:

The two main things that I don't think are in character for scum!Hydrad... first this post

If there are any doctors, please come forward.

uh lets not

He has never referenced it in any way; he seems to be completely unaware of it. I mean it's possible he just was in an "I'm town" mindset, and posted it without thinking much, but wouldn't scum rather go "okay... let's see if anyone claims, that would be great."

It's sort of a win-win thing if you're scum; if you say something it might make you look better, if you don't there's a chance  people claim (and you won't look suspicious). I think scum!Hydrad at least might have not posted that, whereas town!Hydrad would definitely post it.

This has absolutely no alignment tell.  Nobody had claimed, nobody will claim, and everyone knows.  Hydrad's post is completely useless in all regards here.

The second one was how he unvoted WW shortly before his hammer and went "actually, I can't decide between WW and sudgy." If you did that as scum, well done.

I agree that that was more of a towny thing to do, but think of all of the reasons I'm town.  I'm certain they far outweigh this post.

[Hydrad]

with my vote on Joseph though I disagree with you there. Even if it was near the beginning of the wagon when I voted him I think that was a key time on who could get lynched that day and to get the wagon started.

You also say that i'm saying to lynch Joseph and not actually doing anything about it. If you notice within one hour of that post I voted Joseph.

So your saying I'm scummy for saying lynch Joseph but not doing anything about it and then you call me scummy when I vote for him? That doesn't seem fair.

[Hydrad]

Vote: Sudgy also.

If you tricked me again SS good on you. I'm a bit nervous that sudgy already voted me and you could hammer but I guess that just means I don't have to make the choice anymore.

[silverspawn]

by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?

also, why did you kill me so early in that  game?

[silverspawn]

yeah, you're right, I did think you're towny for most of the game. The reason I currently think you're scum is so far only based on the fact that I think Hydrad is town and a little bit on the last NK

[silverspawn]

Oh, and by the way, I'm an IC now, because as scum I could have hammered either of you and won the game.

[silverspawn]

I completely forgot to defend myself from this post:

This is an incredibly weak case, based on one small interaction when my case against you is way larger and based on multiple things.  I agree that this could seem scummy, but it can also come from town too.  I think scum actually would be against lynching their second partner, and definitely not being against it at first and switching.

well, yeah, I agree that it's a weak case.

[Hydrad]

by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?

also, why did you kill me so early in that  game?

Oh sorry I didn't see that part of the post.

No kill list definitely wasn't a scum slip. I was actually meaning who I wanted to kill in order of lynches.

And the kill on you was kinda decided by teproc and WW and I just went along with it.

[Hydrad]

also yay. at least if you pick me I know that I have picked right and didn't get tricked by you again.

[silverspawn]

if you're town, yes.

@sudgy: why do you think Hydrad NK'd ash? just for WIFOM?