Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: 2.71828..... on December 02, 2014, 10:07:36 am
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Welcome to M55: Mafia Holiday!
Mods: 2.7, Teproc
This game will use Asher9++, a setup based on C9++ that Ashersky tweaked with the intention of keeping the randomization of PRs intact while making it harder to "solve" the setup. The entirety of the setup is listed in Post #2.
This game is for 12 players
To receive a spot, you must first PM me
1) Your favorite Holiday* food
2) Your favorite Holiday* present
3) Your favorite Holiday* destination
Players:
1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302
3. faust
4. Awaclus
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy
7. Witherweaver
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK
10. chairs
11. Seprix
12. Ashersky
Spectators Tagged: EFHW, scott_pilgrim
2.7's Mafia Ruleset
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments. Read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph....0) before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads.
2. If the game thread or QT is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Town night actions must be submitted by PM to the mod within 24 hours of day's end. The most recent order will always be valid.
5. Scum night actions must be submitted in QT within 24 hours of day's end. Any team member may submit all night actions. The most recent order(s) will always be valid.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, fonts size less than 8, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch if you prefer.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
The Deadlines:
1. Days will last 10 consecutive 24-hour periods.
2. Nights will last two consecutive 24-hour periods.
3. Days will be adjusted for the Holidays as necessary. Any changes in the standard length of day will be given in bold, mod-colored font.
The Rest:
1. Bold, purple or blue text is reserved for the Mod(s). Players may not use them.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Bold all in-thread Mod questions and requests so that they don’t get missed.
6. Prods of inactive players will be issued automatically after 72 hours. A prodded player has 12 hours to respond or risks replacement.
7. Players may request a prod after 24 hours without a post.
8. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement (if possible) without further notice at such time as when a third prod would have been issued.
9. In reference to 6-8, "inactive" is defined as not having posted in the game thread AND not having provided notice in the VLA Thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.0).
10. Do not accuse players of violations of the Civility Pledge within the game thread. Instead, PM the mod(s) your complaint and the issue will be resolved in the best way possible to maintain civility and above all keep the game enjoyable for all parties involved.
11. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
NOTE: I have made slight changes to some of the rules as they normally appear. Automatic Prods for rule 6 are now at 72 hours, but prods can still be requested after 24 hours. I have also added rule 10 under "The Rest" and adjusted rule 3 under "Deadlines".
*This is meant to cover Thanksgiving, Christmas, and any other Holiday during this time of year that you might celebrate in the [Thanksgiving, New Years] time frame. Note the inclusive brackets.
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Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.
All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:
1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (“Either” Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)
After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.
E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2
D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3
Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3
Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.
* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.
Clarifications:
--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail. If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.
--Flavor will be independent of alignment.
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Also, if anyone wants to co-mod you are welcome to. A back-up would be nice especially with Holidays and travel and stuff.
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What do "favorite present" and "favorite destination" mean?
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I was thinking Christmas present and place to spend the holidays. Or whatever. Use your imagination.
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I don't want to play because I'm hoping Lost mafia will start while this is happening, and I don't want to be in two normal + 1 RMM game, but I can co-mod.
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/in
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/in
sudgy is clearly town because he didn't read the setup.
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/in
sudgy is clearly town because he didn't read the setup.
I PMed him. Am I not supposed to /in here too?
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/in
sudgy is clearly town because he didn't read the setup.
I PMed him. Am I not supposed to /in here too?
It doesn't seem to be necessary, e has just been adding people after getting their PMs.
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You should /in here to ensure you tag the thread, anyway.
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ni\
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You should /in here
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Meaning, Ashersky should play.
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This looks like a ton of fun, but I don't really want to join any additional games with my vacation coming up. I'll at least /tag though.
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Hm, I hope this starts before Christmas.
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Sadly, I don't have time to play this, but I would put Goko as my favorite destination for laughs and giggles.
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I NEED A GAME! PEOPLE NEED TO SIGN UP ALREADY.
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I NEED A GAME! PEOPLE NEED TO SIGN UP ALREADY.
You mean you want to start killing town, coz you're scum. Vote:silverspawn
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
I seriously thought about making this a "Dominion Streaming Mafia" with AdamH video's as flavor, but couldn't quite come up with the right amount of flavor.
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
I seriously thought about making this a "Dominion Streaming Mafia" with AdamH video's as flavor, but couldn't quite come up with the right amount of flavor.
Oh, but I could have pretended to be IsotropicWasBetter there.....
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
I seriously thought about making this a "Dominion Streaming Mafia" with AdamH video's as flavor, but couldn't quite come up with the right amount of flavor.
Oh, but I could have pretended to be IsotropicWasBetter there.....
pretended? So you aren't IsotropicWasBetter?
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
I seriously thought about making this a "Dominion Streaming Mafia" with AdamH video's as flavor, but couldn't quite come up with the right amount of flavor.
Oh, but I could have pretended to be IsotropicWasBetter there.....
pretended? So you aren't IsotropicWasBetter?
Nope, IWB has claimed to be a lot of people. Me, jsh, Adam H, Wandering Winder, Ozle, Donald X, Hugo VJ, maybe some others too, and also a new f.ds person. I thought it would be fun to temporarily claim IWB, at the time it made the 5p game I was playing more fun/crazy.
It felt good at the time, and like Adam says "If it feels good, do it". But, I am NOT IWB.
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pretended? So you aren't IsotropicWasBetter?
No, I am and I have made myself pregnant.
Anyway, onto more important things.
PS. it's Hugovj, tssk
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somebody get adamH, it's mafia 55!
I seriously thought about making this a "Dominion Streaming Mafia" with AdamH video's as flavor, but couldn't quite come up with the right amount of flavor.
Oh, but I could have pretended to be IsotropicWasBetter there.....
pretended? So you aren't IsotropicWasBetter?
Nope, IWB has claimed to be a lot of people. Me, jsh, Adam H, Wandering Winder, Ozle, Donald X, Hugo VJ, maybe some others too, and also a new f.ds person. I thought it would be fun to temporarily claim IWB, at the time it made the 5p game I was playing more fun/crazy.
It felt good at the time, and like Adam says "If it feels good, do it". But, I am NOT IWB.
ahh, thanks for clearing that up
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I'm totally not IWB either.
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C'mon people, join so we can start!!!
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C'mon people, join so we can start!!!
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C'mon people, join so we can start!!!
SS is going into withdrawal.
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/in
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C'mon people, join so we can start!!!
SS is going into withdrawal.
I'm already far in! I even signed up on another forum to get a game faster.
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I NEED DIS
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C'mon people, join so we can start!!!
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I might hammer...
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I might hammer...
I don't know how you can hammer when two spots are left, but I'm for it.
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Ash can play two people no probs. They will keep their vote on each other, though.
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oh man, that would be something to watch. Ash getting into an argument with himself. But really, 2 more people and we can get this game going. Ash is one, who else?
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I almost convinced Delirious Deleuze to join the other night but it's going to overlap too much with the start of next semester.
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Hey, Seprix just signed up so there is only one spot left. Do people want to start this ASAP, or like wait a bit for the holidays, or what? I can do whatever.
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I'd personally be up for ASAP.
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Well to help SS out I guess ASAP is good.
(then we should totally day 1 quickhammer him!)
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I'm fine whenever.
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NOW
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/hammer
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/in
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Thread Locked
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Unless you want to /tag for the speccy
Thread still locked for players
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/tag
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/in
Just covering my bases.
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Thread still locked for players
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All players have confirmed.
D1 will begin in 24 hours (maybe longer because of work, but not before then)
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Day 1 Start
"1, 2, 3, 4,....., 12. Good, good. Everyone is here. Let me welcome you to this planning session." I began. "Since you are all here, we can now start planning the best Holiday Party that f.ds has ever seen! Teproc and I gathered you all together because you each have a unique perspective on what this party should look like. However, due to budgetary constraints (I don't get paid enough) we won't quite be able to do EVERYTHING that EVERYONE wants. So let's begin by...."
Suddenly Teproc burst in from the back of the room. "Look what I found! A transmogrifier box (http://calvinandhobbes.wikia.com/wiki/Transmogrifier) with a note attached!"
Everyone got quiet as the note was read.
"Bah Humbug! Holiday Parties ruin the season. So we will ruin yours"
"This is rather unfortunate." I said once I saw the note. "Luckily I have a de-transmogrifier box that will transform any transmogrified person back to their original state. There is one bug that I haven't quite had the time to get ragingduckd to salvage though. If you aren't transmogrified already, you will be forever changed into a goko bot. Just a minor bug, and you will be able to still play Dominion the rest of your life, but you won't be able to help plan our Holiday Party. But unless we find these rapscallions who are trying to thwart our party, we won't be able to have our party anyway!"
The First Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (12): A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302, faust, Awaclus, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, EgorK, chairs, Seprix, Ashersky
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
I will allow for a 2-day extension due to the Holiday season. To get this extension, 7 of you must send me a PM requesting the extension. DO NOT POST in the main thread about this. I will confirm the official deadline Sunday, December 21 (or before if I get enough requests), so if you want an extension PM me before then.
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Vote: Witherweaver
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Hi ashersky, haven't played with you before.
So, Vote:ashersky
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Okay, just finished a full re-read, and mostly witherweaver and Joseph2302 come off as scummy, with ashersky as towniest.
Everyone else is null to scummy, mostly based on lurking.
I think deadline's in 45 minutes, so we really need to get moving.
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Mod, can we get a vote count?
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Vote Count 1.1
Witherweaver (1) : ashersky
ashersky (1) : Joseph2302
Not Voting (10): A Drowned Kernel, faust, Awaclus, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, EgorK, chairs, Seprix
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Vote: ashersky for voting based on insufficient information.
I'll be back in a bit, I'm going Christmas caroling!
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Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
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Vote: SS
Because i think it would be fun to quick lynch him when hes been so desperate to play :)
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Vote: SS
Because i think it would be fun to quick lynch him when hes been so desperate to play :)
Yes!
vote: silverspawn
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Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
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Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
I was also curious, how did you see this? Or did you randomly create this type of salad that Google doesn't acknowledge the existence of? All in all, seems pretty scummy to me, and you were scummy last time, so Vote:ADK.
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It was in my role PM, it looked like it was randomly selected from other people's responses, did other people not get that?
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It was in my role PM, it looked like it was randomly selected from other people's responses, did other people not get that?
On closer inspection, yes I did get a random food and present. I withdraw my complaints. Unvote:ADK
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Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
I was also curious, how did you see this? Or did you randomly create this type of salad that Google doesn't acknowledge the existence of? All in all, seems pretty scummy to me, and you were scummy last time, so Vote:ADK.
SUPER DUPER SCUM SLIPS!!!!
Looks like scum didn't get the same time of Role PMs that town got. Fantastico!
vote: chairs first, then Joseph tomorrow.
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vote: wishersky
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Easy way to check the scum slips.
chairs and Joseph, claim your holiday info. If it's verified, you're safe.
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Easy way to check the scum slips.
chairs and Joseph, claim your holiday info. If it's verified, you're safe.
whoa whoa whoa. Already fishing for information? super scummy
Vote: asher
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Easy way to check the scum slips.
chairs and Joseph, claim your holiday info. If it's verified, you're safe.
whoa whoa whoa. Already fishing for information? super scummy
Vote: asher
Protecting your scum partners? Awful jumpy.
If you think "fishing" for "information" is scummy in this instance, you have NOT read the setup. PM flavor will have zilch to do with roles and alignment.
What PM flavor may tell us all, though, is if town and scum got different styles of PM.
I got someone else's holiday information in my PM. ADK mentioned the same. I know I'm town, I assume ADK's is town.
Now, when two people immediately jump on something that should absolutely, 100% be known to a town player as the norm, it screams something important.
So, if scum got PMs that didn't include someone else's random holiday information, we can catch them through that lack of information. The fact that they've yet to post since being called out about this signals that they are frantically PMing the mod for information to use to cover themselves.
What may be unlucky for them is, if the random flavor distribution was done after alignment distribution for example, no town player will be able to confirm their claims. If all holiday information was randomized and just the scum players were left out, they'll have to wait for the Mod to provide that information.
So, the longer it takes for them to respond, to more likely it is to me that they've been caught in a scumslip situation.
This is very familiar to the Major Arcana II VT claim issue, I think, and it's the best thing we've got going for us.
We have very little activity, we have very little posting from anyone, and we have an unbreakable setup. The scumslip looks promising, and it's worth pursuing until it's otherwise proven false or we lynch one of them.
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Confirming I have holiday location, food/drink item, and present in my PM.
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Guys, guys, guys. We don't know who the villain is or if there even is one. This could be a prank note. *waves* Let's just...
PARTY
Since I have no information, I will not vote and potentially condemn an innocent man/woman.
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Confirming I have holiday location, food/drink item, and present in my PM.
Explain your vote for ADK then.
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Easy way to check the scum slips.
chairs and Joseph, claim your holiday info. If it's verified, you're safe.
whoa whoa whoa. Already fishing for information? super scummy
Vote: asher
Protecting your scum partners? Awful jumpy.
If you think "fishing" for "information" is scummy in this instance, you have NOT read the setup. PM flavor will have zilch to do with roles and alignment.
What PM flavor may tell us all, though, is if town and scum got different styles of PM.
I got someone else's holiday information in my PM. ADK mentioned the same. I know I'm town, I assume ADK's is town.
Now, when two people immediately jump on something that should absolutely, 100% be known to a town player as the norm, it screams something important.
So, if scum got PMs that didn't include someone else's random holiday information, we can catch them through that lack of information. The fact that they've yet to post since being called out about this signals that they are frantically PMing the mod for information to use to cover themselves.
What may be unlucky for them is, if the random flavor distribution was done after alignment distribution for example, no town player will be able to confirm their claims. If all holiday information was randomized and just the scum players were left out, they'll have to wait for the Mod to provide that information.
So, the longer it takes for them to respond, to more likely it is to me that they've been caught in a scumslip situation.
This is very familiar to the Major Arcana II VT claim issue, I think, and it's the best thing we've got going for us.
We have very little activity, we have very little posting from anyone, and we have an unbreakable setup. The scumslip looks promising, and it's worth pursuing until it's otherwise proven false or we lynch one of them.
Umm wait I'm bad at reading sarcasm so theres a chance yours is sarcasm also. Mine was sarcasm but i guess its easy to misinterpret it as i didn't display it very well.
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Easy way to check the scum slips.
chairs and Joseph, claim your holiday info. If it's verified, you're safe.
Seconded. At best, we might catch scum, and I don't think anything undesirable can happen as a result? So it should be a good thing to do.
Vote: Hydrad because being bad at reading sarcasm is a scum tell.
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If all holiday information was randomized and just the scum players were left out, they'll have to wait for the Mod to provide that information.
which would be stupid and dependent on when e is online and an exploit and we should stop right here.
e, can you confirm that scum and town got the same type of flavor in their pm's?
If not, I am for restarting this game, as we can easily just win the game by confirming each other's food. Even if you send them the information "in time", they're still suspicious for posting late. it's best if we get clarification and try to win this the clean way.
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Plus, if chairs is town, we might now suspect him incorrectly, which would be an unfair disadvantage, likewise. The only way to resolve this is to have confirmation from the mod.
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I also have location, food and gift
And that should be Olivier salad, my bad
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This whole thing might be a matter of "people didn't read the flavor on their PMs", I think e would know enough to give everyone the same flavor.
But, chairs reaction to ash jumping on him and joseph seems strangely subdued. I would expect town to be more indignant.
vote: chairs
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This whole thing might be a matter of "people didn't read the flavor on their PMs", I think e would know enough to give everyone the same flavor.
I agree that's probably what happened, but I really don't like the attempt to abuse it, regardless of how big the chance is.
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I agree that's probably what happened, but I really don't like the attempt to abuse it, regardless of how big the chance is.
Why not? Shouldn't we try to win?
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
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This whole thing might be a matter of "people didn't read the flavor on their PMs", I think e would know enough to give everyone the same flavor.
But, chairs reaction to ash jumping on him and joseph seems strangely subdued. I would expect town to be more indignant.
vote: chairs
I was subdued because I wasn't here, I was in bed.
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I agree that's probably what happened, but I really don't like the attempt to abuse it, regardless of how big the chance is.
Why not? Shouldn't we try to win?
for the same reason you don't slowplay your opponent constantly in dominion, even though it would lead to a higher rating and winrate.
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I agree that's probably what happened, but I really don't like the attempt to abuse it, regardless of how big the chance is.
Why not? Shouldn't we try to win?
for the same reason you don't slowplay your opponent constantly in dominion, even though it would lead to a higher rating and winrate.
I agree, Vote:Awaclus for trying to use bad tactics to win.
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
I submitted Yule Ham.
for the same reason you don't slowplay your opponent constantly in dominion, even though it would lead to a higher rating and winrate.
I can't really get an in-game advantage over my opponent by playing slowly in Dominion. Forcing people to flavorclaim isn't against the rules, so we should trust that e knows what he's doing and try to benefit from everything we possibly can. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
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you get an advantage by slowplaying, because your opponent is losing focus and/or getting frustrated. he might even time out if he tabs out during your turn
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you get an advantage by slowplaying, because your opponent is losing focus and/or getting frustrated. he might even time out if he tabs out during your turn
That's not an in-game advantage.
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you get an advantage by slowplaying, because your opponent is losing focus and/or getting frustrated. he might even time out if he tabs out during your turn
That's not an in-game advantage.
It's an advantage to help you win. If they play badly because they're annoyed, this helps you win. Similarly, if they time out, you win. So if your only motive was winning, then slowrolling would increase your chance of winning.
Similarly, by trying to abuse this setup/flavour thing, you're trying to win, but not the fun way.
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This game is about reading into the things people say, if someone says something that reveals that they are probably scum then ignoring because it isn't "the right way to play" is silly. If scum doesn't have information that town would have, then that's a problem with the setup, but the I fully believe that the proper town response to a broken setup is to go ahead and use it to their advantage.
But if chairs does have the same flavor info in his PM (which I suspect he does) then his response was still super scummy, because he's acting guilty. "lol nice try ash but I just skimmed my PM, here's my flavor stuff, let's actually scumhunt", or even OMGUSing, would have been a towny response, but he instead got quiet and made a post where he didn't actually provide the requested information. I feel good about my vote on him.
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Since I have no information, I will not vote and potentially condemn an innocent man/woman.
BTW it kind of got lost in the shuffle, but this is pretty obviously newb town. Hi Seprix! I don't know how much you know about the game, but it's almost always a good idea to lynch someone. Even if we lynch town, the lynch gives us information, and every time we don't lynch we essentially give scum a free kill. Lynches are deaths that town has some control over, and we need to use take advantage of them to try and kill scum.
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It's an advantage to help you win. If they play badly because they're annoyed, this helps you win. Similarly, if they time out, you win. So if your only motive was winning, then slowrolling would increase your chance of winning.
It's not an in-game advantage. The motive is not winning, it's playing for the win.
Similarly, by trying to abuse this setup/flavour thing, you're trying to win, but not the fun way.
It would be extremely unfun to handicap myself on purpose. You, sir, are a scrub. :P
BTW it kind of got lost in the shuffle, but this is pretty obviously newb town. Hi Seprix! I don't know how much you know about the game, but it's almost always a good idea to lynch someone. Even if we lynch town, the lynch gives us information, and every time we don't lynch we essentially give scum a free kill. Lynches are deaths that town has some control over, and we need to use take advantage of them to try and kill scum.
Are you sure? It could be, but it could also be newbie scum being like "Since I have information and I know everyone except my partners is town, I will not vote". I'm not saying it's scummy, because it's not, but I also don't think it's particularly towny.
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I think newb scum is more likely to be like, "I better push a mislynch so that me or my partners don't get lynched!"
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
I will vote for whoever submitted the Macintosh Laptop...
Hi everyone! I think silver's response to flavor stuff is townie. I also think ashersky's initial reaction was... normal. A bit townish. Hydrad doesn't feel right for me right now.
Vote: Hydrad
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I can't really get an in-game advantage over my opponent by playing slowly in Dominion. Forcing people to flavorclaim isn't against the rules, so we should trust that e knows what he's doing and try to benefit from everything we possibly can. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
This doesn't make sense. Either we trust e knows what he's doing, in which case flavor claiming does nothing, or we do not, in which case this is exploiting a mod mistake.
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This game is about reading into the things people say, if someone says something that reveals that they are probably scum then ignoring because it isn't "the right way to play" is silly. If scum doesn't have information that town would have, then that's a problem with the setup, but the I fully believe that the proper town response to a broken setup is to go ahead and use it to their advantage.
you're generalizing in a pretty unreasonable way. If the setup is broken by having balance problems, then yes, you can use that. But if the mod made a mistake with the flavor, then you should not use that. This is very similar to the incident in ASoIaF mafia, where I was fakeclaiming cop and you asked me about the syntax in my pm (how is town/anti town phrased).
That kind of stuff is not okay, and should not be tolerated. I didn't say anything in that game, because I was scared scum, but here I don't have these problems and I'm not going to play along with it. The mod should confirm whether or not he screwed up with the flavor, if he didn't than that's that, and if he did we should restart.
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I'm fairly unavailable for a little bit. But I promise when I come back I'll be useful and help guide us to victory!
Until then, Vote: ADK because I don't do it enough.
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vote: A Weaver Weaver
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Confirming I have holiday location, food/drink item, and present in my PM.
Explain your vote for ADK then.
I didn't realize I had these things in my PM.
vote: ashersky
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e, can you confirm that scum and town got the same type of flavor in their pm's?
--Flavor will be independent of alignment.
This is actually not quite true. I forgot to correct it before the game began. Scum have additional flavor names with a transmogrified flavor name and info that is independent of alignment.
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e, can you confirm that scum and town got the same type of flavor in their pm's?
--Flavor will be independent of alignment.
This is actually not quite true. I forgot to correct it before the game began. Scum have additional flavor names with a transmogrified flavor name and info that is independent of alignment.
So to clarify, scum may have, for example, a name of "Jack Frost" with a safeclaim of, say, "The Nutcracker"?
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Vote: ashersky for not double checking his PM to see if he had flavor. I thought I didn't and looked and saw I did.
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This seems to have been a massive debate over nothing, I blame ashersky too, for the "ooh, this is a massive scumslip" post.
Vote:ashersky.
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e, can you confirm that scum and town got the same type of flavor in their pm's?
--Flavor will be independent of alignment.
This is actually not quite true. I forgot to correct it before the game began. Scum have additional flavor names with a transmogrified flavor name and info that is independent of alignment.
So to clarify, scum may have, for example, a name of "Jack Frost" with a safeclaim of, say, "The Nutcracker"?
yes
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Vote: ashersky for not double checking his PM to see if he had flavor. I thought I didn't and looked and saw I did.
Are you even reading? I specifically called people out for NOT having flavor in their PM.
I'm actually convinced Silverspawn is scum. You know who's pissy and indignant about town manipulating a break in the setup to win? Scum.
Go read Major Arcana 2 and see the mafia response to getting caught out due to VT design there. That's exactly silverspawn's reaction now.
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This seems to have been a massive debate over nothing, I blame ashersky too, for the "ooh, this is a massive scumslip" post.
Vote:ashersky.
You need a space between the colon and my username if you want that to count.
Also, it's extremely scummy to put someone to L-1 without announcing it.
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
On top of scummy voting, and the crap vote for ADK on food, I will counter claim you right now.
I have the Yule Ham in my PM.
Unless two players submitted Yule ham (which seems improbable, given I don't think it's even a thing), we now have 100% caught scum.
Just choose, vote: Joseph2302 or me.
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Not actually aT L-1, sudgy voted twice. Not sure if the wishersky vote counted, either.
Lest you think I was misleading.
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
On top of scummy voting, and the crap vote for ADK on food, I will counter claim you right now.
I have the Yule Ham in my PM.
Unless two players submitted Yule ham (which seems improbable, given I don't think it's even a thing), we now have 100% caught scum.
Just choose, vote: Joseph2302 or me.
Is it even possible for two people to have the same food in their PMs (if one of them is scum)?
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I knew it wasn't L-1, that's why I didn't need to warn.
Let's correct it then. Vote: Ashersky . This is L-2, I believe?
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Hmm, googling for Yule Ham shows pages with title "Christmas ham", so seems relevant and is probable for 2 people to have listed it. Also what point is for scum to provide incorrect flavor claim?
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Hmm, googling for Yule Ham shows pages with title "Christmas ham", so seems relevant and is probable for 2 people to have listed it. Also what point is for scum to provide incorrect flavor claim?
Yes, seems the Yule Ham is eaten in many countries, including Southern America, Nordic countries and Germanic countries. So by the sounds of it, lots of people here would eat this for Christmas, so 2 people choosing Yule Ham is a definite possibility. However, I did not submit Yule Ham as my food.
On a different note, I think Ashersky might be scum looking for a very quick lynch by getting rid of me. All he's done is accuse people of scumminess a lot.
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Mod: Can we have a vote count? (just to check the counting is correct)
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Wow. I don't even understand what's going on here. I mean, I've played Mafia IRL, but it's nothing like this. :s
And hi Silverspawn :D
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Wow. I don't even understand what's going on here. I mean, I've played Mafia IRL, but it's nothing like this. :s
And hi Silverspawn :D
This isn't particularly normal.
In the game I played + ones I've watched on here, normally Day 1 starts with some random accusations, people say things/defend themselves/try to accuse others, people build up opinions of others, and someone gets lynched. (I guess this is pretty similar to IRL Mafia)
Here, someone tried to talk about their flavour (place, food, present), and this started lots of arguments about the setup.
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Wow. I don't even understand what's going on here. I mean, I've played Mafia IRL, but it's nothing like this. :s
And hi Silverspawn :D
This isn't particularly normal.
In the game I played + ones I've watched on here, normally Day 1 starts with some random accusations, people say things/defend themselves/try to accuse others, people build up opinions of others, and someone gets lynched. (I guess this is pretty similar to IRL Mafia)
Here, someone tried to talk about their flavour (place, food, present), and this started lots of arguments about the setup.
Says the new guy.
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Vote Count 1.2
ashersky (4) : sudgy, Hydrad, chairs, Joseph2302
Hydrad (2) : Awaclus, faust
chairs (1) : A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (1) : ashersky
Not Voting (3): silverspawn, EgorK, Seprix
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Wow. I don't even understand what's going on here. I mean, I've played Mafia IRL, but it's nothing like this. :s
And hi Silverspawn :D
This isn't particularly normal.
In the game I played + ones I've watched on here, normally Day 1 starts with some random accusations, people say things/defend themselves/try to accuse others, people build up opinions of others, and someone gets lynched. (I guess this is pretty similar to IRL Mafia)
Here, someone tried to talk about their flavour (place, food, present), and this started lots of arguments about the setup.
Says the new guy.
I'm not the new guy, I'm the 2nd game guy, who has also lurked around for a while, so seen 5 or so games develop, and none quite like this. Are you telling me an argument about Yule Hams is normal then?
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yay things are happening!
I'm thinking its a bit more likely that 2 people said yule ham then the fact that this is a way to find scum. I find it unlikely that e would of made a mistake like that. If all of us made food isn't it more likely that each one of us has another persons food as our favorite instead of the option that scum gets someone elses food?
I feel like i worded that poorly but hopefully my point still get across.
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Okay, I don't think we caught scum here, and ashersky should know we didn't. Voting still seems safe, so
vote: ashersky
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Wow. I don't even understand what's going on here. I mean, I've played Mafia IRL, but it's nothing like this. :s
And hi Silverspawn :D
If we can help with anything, just ask.
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These votes on ashersky are kind of bullshit, anyone who's played with him before knows that this is his playstyle as scum or town. Based on how they've reacted here I think that chairs is a lot more likely to be scum than joseph, joseph actually checked his PM and unvoted before ash said anything, and two people having the same food doesn't really prove anything.
All that said, I don't see a reason not to post what we submitted and received so that we can figure what the hell is actually happening.
I submitted:
Stuffing
New Dominion expansions
Home
I received:
Olvieux salad
more Dominion expansions (not surprised I wasn't the only one to put this)
Equestria
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I submitted:
Food: Turkey with stuffing and all the vegetables (including Brussels Sprouts)
Present: PS3 games
Place: In bed
I received:
Food: Yule Ham
Present: Macintosh Laptop
Place: California
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Mistakes were made
Joseph2302 was supposed to have Vegetarian Decadent Beaver Powder with a side of Hot Ketchup and Head Cheese sent to him, but somehow in all the copy&paste I messed up and gave him yule ham.
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ah well I guess that answers that.
I don't think its needed to keep claiming but incase it is i figured i may as well.
I submitted
1. eggnog
2. more dominion expansions
3. california/theme parks.
I recieved
1. speculoos
2. money
3. home
at first I thought speculoos was a made up thing...
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Vote: ashersky
There's gonna' be a lynchin'~ ♫
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I'm not sure which present made it, because first I submitted a thing that lets me fulfill wishes, but then e said it had to be realistic, and I submitted my e-book reader. He also said the holiday location had to be realistic though, and apparently he changed his mind, because obviously I submitted Equestria.
so,
submitted:
the vegetarian beaver powder thing that Joseph was supposed to get (property of a random food generator)
Equestria
the box that grants wishes/an e-book reader
received:
Turkey
Switzerland
Stuffed Elves
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and vote: Chaiprix
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Just so people are aware, ashersky is at L-1 right now. And that's terrible.
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Intent to hammer, as you all are ridiculous.
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I don't think it's ridiculous, as long as no-one does hammer. If someone does, we'll have him lynched ASAP
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unvote.
Received:
Food - Eggnog
Present - PS3
Place - Home!
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unvote
What have I done? I almost condemned an innocent man!
Or maybe he's guilty after all.
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Mistakes were made
Joseph2302 was supposed to have Vegetarian Decadent Beaver Powder with a side of Hot Ketchup and Head Cheese sent to him, but somehow in all the copy&paste I messed up and gave him yule ham.
And you all thought I was crazy. He did claim incorrectly -- not his fault, though, it seems.
Does this speak to alignment? I'm inclined to say absolutely not.
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I, uh *checks pms* submitted:
Food: Egg Nog
Present: Stuffed Dangos (Like, a stuffed animal type stuffed, not some type of stuffed food)
Destination: Home
I received:
Food: Pumpkin Pie
Present: Dominion Expansions
Destination: Home (it said your home but that's probably just home)
Did anybody else say Home?
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I sent:
Yule Ham
Chinese tea
home
and received:
salt-cured Ham
an e-book reader
Antarctica
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Mistakes were made
Joseph2302 was supposed to have Vegetarian Decadent Beaver Powder with a side of Hot Ketchup and Head Cheese sent to him, but somehow in all the copy&paste I messed up and gave him yule ham.
And you all thought I was crazy. He did claim incorrectly -- not his fault, though, it seems.
Does this speak to alignment? I'm inclined to say absolutely not.
Yeah, well, you'll see that the reaction was really weird for us here.
Anyway, unvote as there's nothing scummy in your play otherwise.
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Oh, and vote: sudgy for continuing a now useless cluttering flavor discussion.
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vote: Jogork for blending in and lurking
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Mistakes were made
Joseph2302 was supposed to have Vegetarian Decadent Beaver Powder with a side of Hot Ketchup and Head Cheese sent to him, but somehow in all the copy&paste I messed up and gave him yule ham.
And you all thought I was crazy. He did claim incorrectly -- not his fault, though, it seems.
Does this speak to alignment? I'm inclined to say absolutely not.
Yay, glad this flavour argument is over, I'm going to Unvote, as I was only continuing to vote Ashersky because it seemed he was tunnelling me (which obviously wasn't his fault).
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Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
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Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
There's gonna' be a lynchin'~ ♫
Doesn't look like a mistake to me. Vote: Seprix
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Vote: ashersky
There's gonna' be a lynchin'~ ♫
Hm, this does seem scummy, as town wouldn't want a quick lynch, but would want more information. Could be a genuine newbie mistake, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
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By the way, the thing with Joseph and ash reminds me of the situation with WW in ASOIAF mafia. Makes me think they are more likely the same alignment, because that's when you just copy/paste.
I really don't get the Seprix votes. He doesn't appear to me as though he talked to a partner before this started. He just seems to have a "lighter" approach to the game than most people on this forum, which is fine and not an alignment tell.
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I really don't get the Seprix votes. He doesn't appear to me as though he talked to a partner before this started. He just seems to have a "lighter" approach to the game than most people on this forum, which is fine and not an alignment tell.
Well, I don't think he's super scummy. But he put ashersky at L-1 which is something that I think neither alignment wants to do in this situation really, but it's easier to imagine scum doing it than town. So I thought like, yeah, why not vote for him now.
Hm, this does seem scummy, as town wouldn't want a quick lynch, but would want more information. Could be a genuine newbie mistake, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Oh, so you mean like that kind of mistake. Yes, it could definitely be that.
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Checking in. Was there a point to claiming all the flavor stuff other than to clarify the issue with the PM mistake? Should I do mine?
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Checking in. Was there a point to claiming all the flavor stuff other than to clarify the issue with the PM mistake? Should I do mine?
Dunno. Probably not. I did mine just in case.
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I'd say that the way that chairs reacted to the whole thing absolutely speaks to his alignment, and that he's scummy as hell. Especially voting for ash after I said I would have found OMGUS to be a towny reaction.
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I'd say that the way that chairs reacted to the whole thing absolutely speaks to his alignment, and that he's scummy as hell. Especially voting for ash after I said I would have found OMGUS to be a towny reaction.
I agree, and it's basically the only actual information we have at this point. Except for Seprix putting Ashersky on L-1, which I still think could be a newbie error. Therefore, Vote: chairs.
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OMGUS is never a towny reaction... unless it's voting ashersky.
But I will also vote: chairs. HE IS NOT A TABLE.
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OMGUS is never a towny reaction... unless it's voting ashersky.
But I will also vote: chairs. HE IS NOT A TABLE.
Wait, what? Voting for yourself? Also, if you were Tables, I'd be a lot more suspicious of you.
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I'm taking this game more as a learning experience, because I've never played Mafia on a Forum before. And if you can't have fun, what's the point of a game?
That being said, I wasn't being serious with my votes. I have no real reason to hang anyone. Yet. I mean, if someone says they're 'scum' or a bad guy, then we will have a lynchin'. But as it stands, I find my reasons to temporarily condemn someone to be the same reasons you guys are currently throwing around accusations. For the fun of it. I mean, really. If you guys were being serious about the 'Yule Ham' thing, I'm shocked. I thought it was all fun and games.
If it wasn't a game.. Then damn. This is going to be a loooooooooooong first day....
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I'm taking this game more as a learning experience, because I've never played Mafia on a Forum before. And if you can't have fun, what's the point of a game?
That being said, I wasn't being serious with my votes. I have no real reason to hang anyone. Yet. I mean, if someone says they're 'scum' or a bad guy, then we will have a lynchin'. But as it stands, I find my reasons to temporarily condemn someone to be the same reasons you guys are currently throwing around accusations. For the fun of it. I mean, really. If you guys were being serious about the 'Yule Ham' thing, I'm shocked. I thought it was all fun and games.
If it wasn't a game.. Then damn. This is going to be a loooooooooooong first day....
it is a game, and it is serious. it can be both. there is a genre of mafia games that no-one is taking serious, that's called bastard. If it's not bastard, then you should try to win. the fun comes from winning, or at least playing well and getting scum lynched (or in case of scum, avoiding suspicion).
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OMGUS is never a towny reaction... unless it's voting ashersky.
But I will also vote: chairs. HE IS NOT A TABLE.
vote: chairs
vote: chairs
vote: chairs
vote: chairs
vote: chairs
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I'm taking this game more as a learning experience, because I've never played Mafia on a Forum before. And if you can't have fun, what's the point of a game?
That being said, I wasn't being serious with my votes. I have no real reason to hang anyone. Yet. I mean, if someone says they're 'scum' or a bad guy, then we will have a lynchin'. But as it stands, I find my reasons to temporarily condemn someone to be the same reasons you guys are currently throwing around accusations. For the fun of it. I mean, really. If you guys were being serious about the 'Yule Ham' thing, I'm shocked. I thought it was all fun and games.
If it wasn't a game.. Then damn. This is going to be a loooooooooooong first day....
Well, we're obviously trying to win. And scum is obviously not going to say that they're scum, so we have to look at everyone's posts and try to find out which players look like they're town because they really are town and which players look like they're town because they try to look like they're town because they're scum. If we could have found that out through other means, then that would have been super good, so it was worth trying — and even though we didn't manage to directly catch anyone, it led to a lot of posts being written with a lot of material that we can use to try to find the scum. Usually it doesn't work on Day 1 and then a townie is mislynched anyway, but we should still try, because there's a chance that it works out and we successfully lynch scum D1, and it's a lot easier for scum to just blend in when nothing is really happening in the game.
it is a game, and it is serious. it can be both. there is a genre of mafia games that no-one is taking serious, that's called bastard. If it's not bastard, then you should try to win. the fun comes from winning, or at least playing well and getting scum lynched (or in case of scum, avoiding suspicion).
For me, it comes from trying to win. The actual result stops mattering the moment the game is over.
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True true. I think we could run a bunch of simulated games, and see the odds of lynching someone the first day vs. not lynching anyone at all and see which is better for wins statistically. Seems like something worth researching.
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We have a finite number of lynches, and giving one up gives scum an extra NK. If we lynch, there's a chance that we hit scum and a chance we hit town. If we give the kill to scum, there's a 100% chance that it will be a town player.
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We have a finite number of lynches, and giving one up gives scum an extra NK. If we lynch, there's a chance that we hit scum and a chance we hit town. If we give the kill to scum, there's a 100% chance that it will be a town player.
That was really logical. Duh! I feel dumb.
It goes to show that if you ask a question in a different way or look at it in a different light, it becomes obvious. >_>
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To be fair, "why don't we no-lynch?" is a question that a lot of newbies ask. And that fact that you're asking these questions is what's making me lean towards the opinion that you're town, since a newbie scum player is more likely to have received some coaching in the scum QT before the game.
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To be fair, "why don't we no-lynch?" is a question that a lot of newbies ask. And that fact that you're asking these questions is what's making me lean towards the opinion that you're town, since a newbie scum player is more likely to have received some coaching in the scum QT before the game.
Might as well ask another question.
I dunno how to save Game Logs on Dominion online. Y^Y
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unvote
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Seprix gets the same "don't lynch the new guy on D1" pass that all newbie get.
I'm not giving him town points for his newbie questions, which are easily posed as either alignment.
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Checking in. Was there a point to claiming all the flavor stuff other than to clarify the issue with the PM mistake? Should I do mine?
I was really disappointed how you weren't there when the whole flavor discussion happened. I counted on your "Reading flavor is a scum tell".
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I don't get any scum vibe from chairs right now.
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I don't get any scum vibe from chairs right now.
That surprises me.
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I don't get any scum vibe from chairs right now.
That surprises me.
Yeah, me too.
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Checking in. Was there a point to claiming all the flavor stuff other than to clarify the issue with the PM mistake? Should I do mine?
I was really disappointed how you weren't there when the whole flavor discussion happened. I counted on your "Reading flavor is a scum tell".
Being predictable is a scum tell!
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Oh, and vote: sudgy for continuing a now useless cluttering flavor discussion.
Vote: faust for not voting for someone who did it before me.
Like chairs. Vote: chairs. This that I just mentioned is just icing on the cake.
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Vote: faust for not voting for someone who did it before me.
Like chairs. Vote: chairs. This that I just mentioned is just icing on the cake.
You're very eager to attack. I think you're trying to look like you're not scum because you're so eager to help. I think Faust is too, because his second vote for chairs overrides his Faust vote.
VOTE: Sudgy
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faust's vote for sudgy is a little odd, and I don't like that he doesn't like the chairs lynch. People should like the chairs lynch. It's a good lynch.
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faust's vote for sudgy is a little odd, and I don't like that he doesn't like the chairs lynch. People should like the chairs lynch. It's a good lynch.
I tend to agree with you, chairs lynch seems quite good, there is not currently a better option IMO.
So, who should I trust less then- chairs for looking scummiest, or faust for supporting the scummiest person?
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If you think that's confusing, Joe, think about where I am! Do I give Faust town points for correctly reading me as Town, or scum points for correctly reading me as Town?
I'm leaning scum, because I am apparently the scummity scum scummiest today.
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vote: Joseph
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faust's vote for sudgy is a little odd, and I don't like that he doesn't like the chairs lynch. People should like the chairs lynch. It's a good lynch.
Are you able to give any reasons?
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More stuff needs to be happening. Deadline is December 27, which is pretty awful. We have like 3, maybe 4 days time, and then it will probably be very hard to keep people posting.
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vote: Joseph
This should be in bold, assuming you want to vote for me.
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vote: Joseph
This should be in bold, assuming you want to vote for me.
all of my votes this game have been equally valid
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faust's vote for sudgy is a little odd, and I don't like that he doesn't like the chairs lynch. People should like the chairs lynch. It's a good lynch.
Are you able to give any reasons?
His reactions on the flavour things seemed scummy. Also, he voted for himself, I find this weird, and could be a scum double-bluff?
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vote: Joseph
This should be in bold, assuming you want to vote for me.
all of my votes this game have been equally valid
I.e. you've been trying to look active but not actually saying anything useful. Granted, that's not how you played the Fish Mafia as scum, but it's still scummy.
His reactions on the flavour things seemed scummy. Also, he voted for himself, I find this weird, and could be a scum double-bluff?
I think it's basically just a joke.
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His reactions on the flavour things seemed scummy. Also, he voted for himself, I find this weird, and could be a scum double-bluff?
Please expand. How did his reaction seem scummy? Why was it something that scum would do? Why is voting for yourself scummy?
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Let's play "reduce the lynch pool"!
A Drowned Kernel
Joseph2302
faust - me
Awaclus - activity pass
silverspawn
sudgy
Witherweaver - not someone I want to lynch D1
Hydrad
EgorK
chairs - for once, I don't have a scum read on him. And he seems like today's "easy mislynch", which I don't like.
Seprix - newbie pass, plus his play seems genuine
Ashersky - ashersky is good to have around, and has been townie enough so far.
Well, that's down to half of the players, not too bad. I really have no feeling whatsoever towards Egor, Hydrad, sudgy. These people need to post more of substance.
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faust's vote for sudgy is a little odd, and I don't like that he doesn't like the chairs lynch. People should like the chairs lynch. It's a good lynch.
Are you able to give any reasons?
When ash accused him of "scumslipping", he acted guilty. When I said "I would have found OMGUSing to be a townier reaction, he voted for ash for all of one post, then retracted it right away. He's made zero posts that give actual reads of anyone or advanced the game in any way.
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I'd say that the way that chairs reacted to the whole thing absolutely speaks to his alignment, and that he's scummy as hell. Especially voting for ash after I said I would have found OMGUS to be a towny reaction.
I agree, and it's basically the only actual information we have at this point. Except for Seprix putting Ashersky on L-1, which I still think could be a newbie error. Therefore, Vote: chairs.
Faust, this is how. Especially voting for ashersky (reply #99), which put him to L-2.
Before someone argues "you voted for ashersky too", I did, but at the time, it seemed like 1 of us was scum (due to the Yule Ham thing), so my vote made sense, also it put him at like L-3 or L-4, which is safe. Chairs' vote didn't from a town point of view, seems like he may have wanted a quick lynch. He hasn't done anything else
Also, I'm not 100% convinced by chairs voting himself. I did it as town in M53, but it seemed to cause me more trouble than help. Still thinking it could be a double-bluff (although this part of the evidence is weak).
PPE: I know some of this overlaps with what ADK has just written, he posted whilst i was writing, and I agree.
My lynch pool (in no particular order):
A Drowned Kernel - posts seem towny, he warned us about Ashersky being L-1.
Joseph2302- me
faust - looks to me wanting more information/discussion, which is a good town thing.
Awaclus - activity enough to seem townie
silverspawn - not sure why he's voting for me, not getting a town read on him
sudgy - not enough posts to get real sense
Witherweaver - some posts, not getting a real scum sense from them.
Hydrad - not many posts, lurky scum perhaps?
EgorK - not many posts, lurky scum perhaps?
chairs - see above
Seprix - his questions seem genuine newbie, and not scum hiding. Ashersky L-1 seems like a newbie mistake.
Ashersky - ashersky seems pretty townie
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Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
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Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
Interesting, mine would probably be chairs/silverspawn/lurker (sudgy/Hydrad/Egor). I think lynching any on my lynch list would be okay right now, although there's still a few days for people to become townier.
Saying that, I seem to often think lurker = scum, and it's not always the case.
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what? I'm not scum.
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vote: A drowned Joseph
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what? I'm not scum.
Can you provide more details on why you think I'm scum then?
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Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
You're right, it's silly.
I think it's unlikely that ADK and Joseph have the same alignment.
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what? I'm not scum.
Can you provide more details on why you think I'm scum then?
asd vote: Joseph
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Yeah, I think vote: Joseph is not at all the worst course of action.
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I'm positive Sudgy and Faust are both scum for sure based on that one Sudgy post.
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Mod: Vote Count
Let's see where everyone stands as of right now.
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A shocked silence fell over the crowd. How could anyone want to ruin Christmas? It seemed unfathomable. Chaos erupted. No one had a plan. Accusations began flowing as freely as the spiked apple cider.
Vote Count 1.3
ashersky (1) : Hydrad
chairs (3) : A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302, sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (2) : ashersky, faust
sudgy (1) : Seprix
seprix (2) : EgorK, Awaclus
Not Voting (2): silverspawn, chairs
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.
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yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.
I think playing scum is super fun. That's why I have to get creative when I'm town, like now, to keep stuff interesting.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
not yet
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I swear,if Sudgy ends up becoming a freaking scum, I'm blaming all you guys.
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Not sure why people think I'm so scummy. chairs does seem like a possibly obvious mislynch, but there's not a good alternative. silverspawn is definitely being confusing, not sure whether it's scummy or just silly. There's not too much to go on, but could be a scum option.
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Yeah, I think vote: Joseph is not at all the worst course of action.
yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Why? I don't think anyone has been very towny so far, so I'm not really against lynching anyone at this point, but when one player pseudo-votes for someone without actually voting for them or giving any reasons for it and then immediately there are two others who somehow just agree with that and actually vote too, it feels pretty weird. I would be inclined to say that silverspawn plays scum better than this, so mostly his pseudo-voting just annoys me rather than makes me think he's scum, but both faust and Hydrad are suspicious here.
Vote: faust
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VOTE: Faust
I'm with you on this.
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I'm okay with vote: faust
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faust - looks to me wanting more information/discussion, which is a good town thing.
Having reread, I would like to correct this. Whilst he is looking for more interaction, his interaction with chairs seems weird, as he seems pretty sure chairs is town, contrary to many of us- how can he be so sure? Also, the interaction with sudgy was a bit strange too. Also, he's voted for me with no real justification. Really am thinking he could be scum.
At the moment, my main scum candidates would be chairs or faust, then one of the lurkers (I think there's probably a scum lurker) or silverspawn (his voting thing is weird, could be a scum thing, although less convinced than chairs/faust reads).
Happy to keep my vote on chairs for now though, chairs & faust would be my top 2 choices to lynch.
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
don't worry, not everyone can be as good as me :)
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
If I ever vote someone midpost and change, I'm trying to make a statement. I rarely ever think while I'm typing (there are exceptions, but it's not much).
I support a faust lynch, but still prefer chairs. I would make a case, but I need to get to bed and then I'm V/LA for a couple days...
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
If I ever vote someone midpost and change, I'm trying to make a statement. I rarely ever think while I'm typing (there are exceptions, but it's not much).
I support a faust lynch, but still prefer chairs. I would make a case, but I need to get to bed and then I'm V/LA for a couple days...
Then we can look at the possibility of lynching chairs next round. Let's Faust this.
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let's... not do either.
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
I'm not saying yours isn't, but in the only finished game I've played, silverspawn was scum and played really well and you weren't, so I don't really know how you play as scum. Like this, maybe?
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More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
No wait, is yours really even bad scum play? There isn't a clear scum narrative for you, mostly just the weird votes for Joseph and sudgy, it wouldn't take much to convince me that someone else is scummier than you. And I certainly didn't say that you've been playing scum badly or anything. I think that this reaction is probably scummy; town wouldn't necessarily read that much into it.
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
Err... can you quote the post where this happened?
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
I'm not saying yours isn't, but in the only finished game I've played, silverspawn was scum and played really well and you weren't, so I don't really know how you play as scum. Like this, maybe?
Isn't this super disingenuous given you were his silver's scum partner?
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
I'm not saying yours isn't, but in the only finished game I've played, silverspawn was scum and played really well and you weren't, so I don't really know how you play as scum. Like this, maybe?
Isn't this super disingenuous given you were his silver's scum partner?
In what way?
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Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
I'm not saying yours isn't, but in the only finished game I've played, silverspawn was scum and played really well and you weren't, so I don't really know how you play as scum. Like this, maybe?
Isn't this super disingenuous given you were his silver's scum partner?
In what way?
Your opinion of the way Silver plays scum isn't the same as a townie's. Basically we can't trust it.
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Yeah, I think vote: Joseph is not at all the worst course of action.
yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Why? I don't think anyone has been very towny so far, so I'm not really against lynching anyone at this point, but when one player pseudo-votes for someone without actually voting for them or giving any reasons for it and then immediately there are two others who somehow just agree with that and actually vote too, it feels pretty weird. I would be inclined to say that silverspawn plays scum better than this, so mostly his pseudo-voting just annoys me rather than makes me think he's scum, but both faust and Hydrad are suspicious here.
Vote: faust
So, Joseph. He's scummy because I think the whole chairs wagon was scummy. chairs has done weird stuff, yes. How often does scum do weird stuff? It's much more likely that scum play calm and collected. ADK was also pushing chairs, but at least he seemed genuinely convinced, unlike Joseph, who just looked hedgy.
There's also a general thing that in the last game I played with Joseph, I thought he was townie pretty quickly (and correctly so), and I'm not getting that vibe here at all.
His latest reverting his read on me is just the icing on the cake. I would think more experienced players wouldnt do such an obvious move as scum, but Joseph is still newbie.
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on a more serious note, I don't really think faust is scummy
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
Err... can you quote the post where this happened?
This wasn't exactly how it happened. The sudgy interaction was this:
Oh, and vote: sudgy for continuing a now useless cluttering flavor discussion.
he wasn't the only one continuing the flavour discussion, so why vote him?
Joseph's last post: "oh hey, there's a wagon I'd like to jump. Crap, I put him down as a town read. Well, let's hedge a bit..."
More in my defense later when I have more time. I am hurt that Awaclus seems to think silver's scum play is better than this, but mine isn't.
But I had previously said I thought you were scummy, for defending chairs, who I also thought was scummy (and the sudgy thing). I should have thought more before doing my list.
That said, all my scum ideas are pretty weak, I'm definitely unsure about just about everyone.
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Oh, and vote: sudgy for continuing a now useless cluttering flavor discussion.
he wasn't the only one continuing the flavour discussion, so why vote him?
Well, I can't vote everyone, can I? And sudgy had the least content otherwise, and at the time probably when I read sudgy's post I was at the point of being annoyed.
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Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
That's the only post by Egor so far, I think.
Request prod on EgorK
sudgy and WW are also absent, but at least they've announced VLA.
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Your opinion of the way Silver plays scum isn't the same as a townie's. Basically we can't trust it.
Why not? It should be obvious to everyone that he played the game well and that he's playing this game very differently.
So, Joseph. He's scummy because I think the whole chairs wagon was scummy. chairs has done weird stuff, yes. How often does scum do weird stuff? It's much more likely that scum play calm and collected. ADK was also pushing chairs, but at least he seemed genuinely convinced, unlike Joseph, who just looked hedgy.
There's also a general thing that in the last game I played with Joseph, I thought he was townie pretty quickly (and correctly so), and I'm not getting that vibe here at all.
His latest reverting his read on me is just the icing on the cake. I would think more experienced players wouldnt do such an obvious move as scum, but Joseph is still newbie.
Makes sense now. Actually I'm going to vote: Joseph now.
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Just to be clear, now we're agreed that my wagon is scummy?
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some of my feelings, based on feelings
ADK - I don't think I've ever seen scum!ADK, so no idea. more towny than not towny.
Joseph2302 - scummy. he feels very different than in his last game (where I thought he was scum but he wasn't). He could just have changed his style, but he could also just be scum
faust - is making a lot of sense. town.
Awaclus - I'm leaning scum, but it's awaclus. I think he's different than he was in fish mafia, but I was his partner there, so... I'll reread him at some point.
sudgy - sudgy is in this game? let's lynch the lurkers, vote: Sudgork
oh and I see that he wants to lynch faust and chairs, which are both bad targets. bad sudgy.
Witherweaver - 3 posts. well. at least he announced VLA
Hydrad - as always that remains a secret
EgorK - lurkylurk
chairs - I'm leaning town. I haven't seen active!scum!chairs yet, but I do think his wagon is way more scummy than he is.
Seprix - looks more like noob!town!seprix than noob!scum!seprix
ashersky - totally null, could easily be scum. whatever. day 1 pass for being a strong town player.
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my lynch pool for today is lurkers ∪ Joseph ∪ Awaclus. the first set is currently Sudgork and WW, but that could change.
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also dim dim dim dadum
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Just to be clear, now we're agreed that my wagon is scummy?
I'm not totally convinced, but the general consensus is that chairs is an easy mislynch. Faust just feels scummy to me (for the combination of factors mentioned previously), in stark contrast to M53, when he seemed really towny to me.
Also, would like to see more posts from EgorK, and also WW/sudgy (although I know they're V/LA), think one of them is a lurky scummer.
For now, Unvote: chairs and Vote: Faust.
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Also, request: Vote Count.
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Vote: faust for not voting for someone who did it before me.
Like chairs. Vote: chairs. This that I just mentioned is just icing on the cake.
This is the quote I am basing my vote on Faust and eventually Sudgy on.
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my lynch pool for today is lurkers ∪ Joseph ∪ Awaclus. the first set is currently Sudgork and WW, but that could change.
I recommend Joseph at least for now.
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my lynch pool for today is lurkers ∪ Joseph ∪ Awaclus. the first set is currently Sudgork and WW, but that could change.
I recommend Joseph at least for now.
Huh, I somehow managed to post this without getting the notification about a new post while I was typing. Well, it's not like Seprix's post changes my opinion anyway.
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Vote: faust for not voting for someone who did it before me.
Like chairs. Vote: chairs. This that I just mentioned is just icing on the cake.
This is the quote I am basing my vote on Faust and eventually Sudgy on.
Oh ok, my bad. I agree that's weird, possibly scummy. Much scummier than anything I've done so far.
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I agree that's wei (...) possibly scummy(li) (...) Much scum (...) I've done.
well said
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I'm going to make an attempt to read in the next couple days and contribute.
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The meeting progressed. Hey, where did EgorK go? Uh, out in the blizzard. Hope he didn't get lost...
Vote Count 1.3
chairs (1) : sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (4) : ashersky, faust, Hydrad, Awaclus
seprix (1) : EgorK
faust (3) : Seprix, A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302
Not Voting (2): silverspawn, chairs
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
No extension will be given as not enough players requested one.
Request prod on EgorK
prod sent
edited to change flavor
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Just to be clear, now we're agreed that my wagon is scummy?
I'm not totally convinced, but the general consensus is that chairs is an easy mislynch. Faust just feels scummy to me (for the combination of factors mentioned previously), in stark contrast to M53, when he seemed really towny to me.
Also, would like to see more posts from EgorK, and also WW/sudgy (although I know they're V/LA), think one of them is a lurky scummer.
For now, Unvote: chairs and Vote: Faust.
If you're going to OMGUS me, at least have the decency of providing another argument than than one I gave for voting you.
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Vote: silverspawn
The fake name fake vote crap is horrendous. Also easily done as a scum tactic to deflect serious thought.
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Vote: faust for not voting for someone who did it before me.
Like chairs. Vote: chairs. This that I just mentioned is just icing on the cake.
This is the quote I am basing my vote on Faust and eventually Sudgy on.
Oh ok, my bad. I agree that's weird, possibly scummy. Much scummier than anything I've done so far.
Ha, ha. Why is that even scummy?
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Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
That's the only post by Egor so far, I think.
Request prod on EgorK
sudgy and WW are also absent, but at least they've announced VLA.
Not true, but my other posts were about flavor mishup, so not so releveant now
Should've announced about my limited availability this weekend
As of now I content with where my vote is. I understand that that may be newb mistake. It can be faked newb mistake as well, coached in qt. And I do not see anything more convincing. Faust case is plausible, but I am not ready to vote there yet
PPE: 3
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Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
That's the only post by Egor so far, I think.
Request prod on EgorK
sudgy and WW are also absent, but at least they've announced VLA.
Not true, but my other posts were about flavor mishup, so not so releveant now
Should've announced about my limited availability this weekend
As of now I content with where my vote is. I understand that that may be newb mistake. It can be faked newb mistake as well, coached in qt. And I do not see anything more convincing. Faust case is plausible, but I am not ready to vote there yet
PPE: 3
What do you think about Joseph? He's like the main wagon right now and you don't even mention him.
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Sorry, not faust case but Joseph case. It was typo
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1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302
3. faust
4. Awaclus
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy
7. Witherweaver
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK
10. chairs
11. Seprix
Bold is need to lynch.
Italic is people of interest.
Strikethrough is not lynching D1.
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1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302
3. faust
4. Awaclus
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy
7. Witherweaver
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK
10. chairs
11. Seprix
Bold is need to lynch.
Italic is people of interest.
Strikethrough is not lynching D1.
I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read. I'm sticking with my vote on Faust unless something else happens that's nuts.
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I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read.
Think about it this way. When you or anyone decides/needs to go re-read silverspawn at some point, what will you/anyone find? A bunch of nonsense and nothing else.
That's a great spot to be in as scum. Nothing at all in his posting history that could possible lead us to catch him. So he's purposefully posting nonsense, and it only benefits himself.
That's scummy.
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I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read.
Think about it this way. When you or anyone decides/needs to go re-read silverspawn at some point, what will you/anyone find? A bunch of nonsense and nothing else.
That's a great spot to be in as scum. Nothing at all in his posting history that could possible lead us to catch him. So he's purposefully posting nonsense, and it only benefits himself.
I'd say that's a pretty bad spot to be in as scum, because people like you can come and say hey he has no content he must be scum
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I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read.
Think about it this way. When you or anyone decides/needs to go re-read silverspawn at some point, what will you/anyone find? A bunch of nonsense and nothing else.
That's a great spot to be in as scum. Nothing at all in his posting history that could possible lead us to catch him. So he's purposefully posting nonsense, and it only benefits himself.
I'd say that's a pretty bad spot to be in as scum, because people like you can come and say hey he has no content he must be scum
And then you can come and say that.
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I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read.
Think about it this way. When you or anyone decides/needs to go re-read silverspawn at some point, what will you/anyone find? A bunch of nonsense and nothing else.
That's a great spot to be in as scum. Nothing at all in his posting history that could possible lead us to catch him. So he's purposefully posting nonsense, and it only benefits himself.
I'd say that's a pretty bad spot to be in as scum, because people like you can come and say hey he has no content he must be scum
And then you can come and say that.
That's a bad argument, because I can always - literally always - say "scum!me wouldn't do this, so I'm town" if I play scummy.
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You quoted the wrong post. Here, I fixed it for you:
I do agree with Silverspawn somewhat. He's saying a lot without saying much of anything. But in his defense, there really isn't that much to read.
Think about it this way. When you or anyone decides/needs to go re-read silverspawn at some point, what will you/anyone find? A bunch of nonsense and nothing else.
That's a great spot to be in as scum. Nothing at all in his posting history that could possible lead us to catch him. So he's purposefully posting nonsense, and it only benefits himself.
I'd say that's a pretty bad spot to be in as scum, because people like you can come and say hey he has no content he must be scum
That's a bad argument, because I can always - literally always - say "scum!me wouldn't do this, so I'm town" if I play scummy.
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dum dum dum
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dum dum dum
Another unhelpful post I see. On the other hand, I think being this ridiculously unhelpful would be too obvious as scum. As silverspawn is a decent player, I reckon he wouldn't do this as scum, so must be town.
Although some useful posts would be greatly appreciated.
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
Yes, that was helpful, thanks :)
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't think you're scum, think what your doing would be a really dumb scum move, as it attracts attention to yourself.
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
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Also, this game has very little information, would be good to see more information.
Also not sure why people find me so scummy, but I'm only L-3, so hopefully we'll find a better lynch.
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I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
What makes you so sure that there is scum lurking?
And yeah, I'm experiecing some trouble with logging in as well.
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I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
because lurking can be a scum tactic. Also, the active players in general seem reasonably townie, which in turn means those not so active look worse.
What makes you so sure that there is scum lurking?
And yeah, I'm experiecing some trouble with logging in as well.
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Most players that aren't active are VLA though, so thats not an alignment tell.
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The syntax of my last post should be:
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
What makes you so sure that there is scum lurking?
And yeah, I'm experiecing some trouble with logging in as well.
because lurking can be a scum tactic. Also, the active players in general seem reasonably townie, which in turn means those not so active look worse.
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Most players that aren't active are VLA though, so thats not an alignment tell.
True, but only WW and sudgy have declared themself V/LA. EgorK, Hydrad and Seprix have not many posts, and no V/LA claim.
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silverspawn, you're making me want dim sum.
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I'm only L-3
Just to correct, I'm actually L-4 (with 3 votes), as ashersky switched from voting me to voting silverspawn. Probably doesn't matter right now, but good to have the correct information.
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I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
In other words, there is no scum lurking.
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Going to try and post more today.
Also I'm not sure if I'm the only one. But do others confuse faust on josephs pictures a bunch? I keep reading something from faust and thinking its from joseph or vice versa. Might be just me though.
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Going to try and post more today.
Also I'm not sure if I'm the only one. But do others confuse faust on josephs pictures a bunch? I keep reading something from faust and thinking its from joseph or vice versa. Might be just me though.
Yeah, this page looked a lot like a long Joseph monologue to me.
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In fairness, I got confused yesterday because I thought I'd written an entire monologue. So yes, even I got confused by our pictures.
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well some things i'll say at the moment before i start work is.
I think SS playing is a bit annoying but not really a tell for either alignment.
I don't see fausts stuff as scummy. Although i don't know when I've ever thought faust was scum. The only time I've seen him scum I think was when I was scum with him.
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
Yes, that was helpful, thanks :)
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't think you're scum, think what your doing would be a really dumb scum move, as it attracts attention to yourself.
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
Worrying about people perceiving your posting patterns in a certain way is a bit of a scum tell.
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
Yes, that was helpful, thanks :)
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't think you're scum, think what your doing would be a really dumb scum move, as it attracts attention to yourself.
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
Worrying about people perceiving your posting patterns in a certain way is a bit of a scum tell.
No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
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No, I was telling people I can't necessary get online, it's like a V/LA. Although f.ds seems to be fine though now :)
Also, V/LA Christmas and Boxing Day.
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No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
But town doesn't typically have to worry too much about looking town as scum does, because 1) they really are town so any arguments against them would be false anyway 2) even if they get lynched, it doesn't hurt town as much as lynching scum hurts scum. Is there any particular reason why you don't want to lynch Joseph?
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No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
But town doesn't typically have to worry too much about looking town as scum does, because 1) they really are town so any arguments against them would be false anyway 2) even if they get lynched, it doesn't hurt town as much as lynching scum hurts scum. Is there any particular reason why you don't want to lynch Joseph?
Because if you don't lynch me, so could lynch scum instead?
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silverspawn, you're making me want dim sum.
I have no idea what that means
No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
This most makes no sense. Let's not guess, let's instead guess.
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*post
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
Yes, that was helpful, thanks :)
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't think you're scum, think what your doing would be a really dumb scum move, as it attracts attention to yourself.
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
Worrying about people perceiving your posting patterns in a certain way is a bit of a scum tell.
No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
Day 1 lynches are usually a guess though. There is so little information to go off of that you are pretty much never going to be 100% sure if you hit scum or not. Well actually even later in the days you're never really 100% sure.
So you kinda just have to try and figure out the most likely and go with it because having a no lynch is almost always worse (yes there are times where no lynch is correct) then lynching a random target.
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So, we should probably lynch Joseph, he's scummy as hell. There's an issue with the deadline though, if most of us are VLA until the 27th, there may not be enough time to deal with claims and stuff. So I'm actually in favor of having Joseph claim right away.
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So, we should probably lynch Joseph, he's scummy as hell. There's an issue with the deadline though, if most of us are VLA until the 27th, there may not be enough time to deal with claims and stuff. So I'm actually in favor of having Joseph claim right away.
I think he's scummy, too, but it could just be him. This is his first game, right? Day 1 pass.
I like silverspawn for day 1.
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So, we should probably lynch Joseph, he's scummy as hell. There's an issue with the deadline though, if most of us are VLA until the 27th, there may not be enough time to deal with claims and stuff. So I'm actually in favor of having Joseph claim right away.
I think he's scummy, too, but it could just be him. This is his first game, right? Day 1 pass.
I like silverspawn for day 1.
I don't think this is Joseph's first game:
Faust just feels scummy to me (for the combination of factors mentioned previously), in stark contrast to M53, when he seemed really towny to me.
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It's my second game, M53 was my first game.
Also, I don't want to have to claim, but it seems increasingly likely I'm going to need to, in order to save you all from mislynching.
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So, we should probably lynch Joseph, he's scummy as hell. There's an issue with the deadline though, if most of us are VLA until the 27th, there may not be enough time to deal with claims and stuff. So I'm actually in favor of having Joseph claim right away.
I think he's scummy, too, but it could just be him. This is his first game, right? Day 1 pass.
I like silverspawn for day 1.
Last game I was pretty sure he was town, so no passes from me.
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It's my second game, M53 was my first game.
Also, I don't want to have to claim, but it seems increasingly likely I'm going to need to, in order to save you all from mislynching.
Softclaim huzzah!
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Joseph, you need to full claim now. If you're town, scum already knows that you're a PR.
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Fine, I'm a 1-shot Cop.
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Probably doesn't help us much though, as I'm now going to get Nightkilled. :( at least if you don't lynch me, the chance of hitting scum is higher (3/11 not 3/12)- there are 3 scum, right?
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Fine, I'm a 1-shot Cop.
Okay, unvote. You investigate tonight, and if you're still alive by tomorrow, we can still lynch you.
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Unvote
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Fine, I'm a 1-shot Cop.
Okay, unvote. You investigate tonight, and if you're still alive by tomorrow, we can still lynch you.
Let's look at the possible outcomes
1 - he dies. okay, that's great, clearly better than lynching him, but it's pretty unlikely
2 - he is alive and claims scum result on X. We can lynch X, then we mislynched two targets instead of lynching him now. Good trade for him.
3 - he is alive and claims town result on X. Now, if we go ahead and lynch him, we have created an IC, although that IC might not survive the next night.
I'm not sure if that is really good enough. Note also that one shot cop is a super safe claim for scum, because there is no way it can backfire.
honestly, this just confirms my suspicion that Joseph is scum
also vote: ashersky for tunneling me
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also, Joseph defending me sounds kind of like white knighting. if he's scum, he knows I'm town. I think he has mentioned twice that he doesn't think I'm scum.
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also, if he is scum in 3., then we just lynch him one turn later, which is also bad.
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Silver is just changing his playstyle every game, that's frustrating.
Setup question: Will UB inherit 1-shot cop with 0 shots? If yes Joseph should not tell u if he will investigate or not
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Silver is just changing his playstyle every game, that's frustrating.
Setup question: Will UB inherit 1-shot cop with 0 shots? If yes Joseph should not tell u if he will investigate or not
If I recall correctly, yes. He shouldn't say if he's investigating anyway. And we shouldn't lynch a claimed 1-shot cop.
I'm a little behind on this game but I still find Silver scummy, I still want to lynch chairs too.
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Fine, I'm a 1-shot Cop.
Okay, unvote. You investigate tonight, and if you're still alive by tomorrow, we can still lynch you.
Let's look at the possible outcomes
1 - he dies. okay, that's great, clearly better than lynching him, but it's pretty unlikely
2 - he is alive and claims scum result on X. We can lynch X, then we mislynched two targets instead of lynching him now. Good trade for him.
3 - he is alive and claims town result on X. Now, if we go ahead and lynch him, we have created an IC, although that IC might not survive the next night.
I'm not sure if that is really good enough. Note also that one shot cop is a super safe claim for scum, because there is no way it can backfire.
honestly, this just confirms my suspicion that Joseph is scum
also vote: ashersky for tunneling me
In the case of 2 (which is likely), we can always lynch Joseph. In fact, I would probably argue for lynching Joseph. Then, if Joseph is town. 3 is better than mislynching Joseph now. Note that if Joseph is scum, we can still hit other scum today.
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Silver is just changing his playstyle every game, that's frustrating.
Setup question: Will UB inherit 1-shot cop with 0 shots? If yes Joseph should not tell u if he will investigate or not
If I recall correctly, yes. He shouldn't say if he's investigating anyway. And we shouldn't lynch a claimed 1-shot cop.
I'm a little behind on this game but I still find Silver scummy, I still want to lynch chairs too.
Oh, he should definitely investigate. There's not necessarily a UB in this setup.
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Setup question: Will UB inherit 1-shot cop with 0 shots? If yes Joseph should not tell u if he will investigate or not
Clarifications:
--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
So the answer I believe is UB inherits 1-shot cop with 0/1 shots, unless they've already converted to a mason.
Assuming my reading is correct, I will not be revealing my cop intentions today.
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Setup question: Will UB inherit 1-shot cop with 0 shots? If yes Joseph should not tell u if he will investigate or not
Clarifications:
--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
So the answer I believe is UB inherits 1-shot cop with 0/1 shots, unless they've already converted to a mason.
Assuming my reading is correct, I will not be revealing my cop intentions today.
Hmm, I believe you're right.
Vote: Joseph
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
yes, because then we know if there's a UB. If there's a UB, at least we still get the cop shot, even if you lynch me (which seems increasing likely). If not, then lynching me is not so good for us, as we lose my cop shot.
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I'm already voting for him but vote: faust again for trying to out PRs and for trying to lynch a claimed 1-shot. We can always lynch him after he's had a chance to use his shot, and there's plenty of opportunity in this setup for protection.
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
yes, because then we know if there's a UB. If there's a UB, at least we still get the cop shot, even if you lynch me (which seems increasing likely). If not, then lynching me is not so good for us, as we lose my cop shot.
Nonono. Chances are, if there are Masons, that there's NO UB.
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All games include a Universal Back-Up
?
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All games include a Universal Back-Up
?
Read on. A single M transforms the UB into a Mason.
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ah, I see
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
yes, because then we know if there's a UB. If there's a UB, at least we still get the cop shot, even if you lynch me (which seems increasing likely). If not, then lynching me is not so good for us, as we lose my cop shot.
Nonono. Chances are, if there are Masons, that there's NO UB.
There can be masons and UB if there are four M's, so Masons claiming doesn't do anything except give scum info.
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Three M's, actually, because if there were 4 we'd have an IC. UB can convert but we can also just straight up have masons.
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
yes, because then we know if there's a UB. If there's a UB, at least we still get the cop shot, even if you lynch me (which seems increasing likely). If not, then lynching me is not so good for us, as we lose my cop shot.
Nonono. Chances are, if there are Masons, that there's NO UB.
There can be masons and UB if there are four M's, so Masons claiming doesn't do anything except give scum info.
I assume you mean two separate pairings, which is 6 M's. That's a chance of (0.1)^6 = 0.000001 = 0.0001%
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
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which doesn't necessarily mean a mason should claim. but I'm afk for now, so you guys should do the theorizing.
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I think that Masons, if present, should probably claim now.
yes, because then we know if there's a UB. If there's a UB, at least we still get the cop shot, even if you lynch me (which seems increasing likely). If not, then lynching me is not so good for us, as we lose my cop shot.
Nonono. Chances are, if there are Masons, that there's NO UB.
There can be masons and UB if there are four M's, so Masons claiming doesn't do anything except give scum info.
And how likely is it that there are 4 Ms AND a 1-shot Cop?
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
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I don't understand why Masons wouldn't claim at game start anyway.
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I'm already voting for him but vote: faust again for trying to out PRs and for trying to lynch a claimed 1-shot. We can always lynch him after he's had a chance to use his shot, and there's plenty of opportunity in this setup for protection.
There's also plenty of opportunity for him to be blocked. I'd much rather have an unknown UB perform the shot. You are being ridiculous, "oh, oh, he's trying to out PRs, he must be scum ohmygod!" A decent amount of games can be won by taking as much out of the setup as you can.
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Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
Read the damn setup. Two masons don't mean that the UB automatically convert, and while 1 M is more likely than 3, masons claiming doesn't prove anything, and the longer they wait to claim the better.
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vote: faust.
Yeah... I'm not feeling good about the direction you're heading here.
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Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
Read the damn setup. Two masons don't mean that the UB automatically convert, and while 1 M is more likely than 3, masons claiming doesn't prove anything, and the longer they wait to claim the better.
Can you explain why it is better for Masons to wait to claim? I sure as hell don't want to run into a Dice Mafia scenario here.
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Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
Read the damn setup. Two masons don't mean that the UB automatically convert, and while 1 M is more likely than 3, masons claiming doesn't prove anything, and the longer they wait to claim the better.
Hey, let's do some math. Assume Masons claim, and we have a single pair. We know that
P(one M) = 1/10*(9/10)^5*5 = 29,5 %
P(three Ms) = (1/10)^3*(9/10)^3*(6 choose 3) = 1,5 %
P(one Mason pair) = P(one M) + P(three Ms) = 31,0 %
P(one M | there are Masons) = P(one M)/P(one Mason pair) = 95,2 %
P(three M | there are Masons) = 4,8 %
So, even if we know we have Masons, three Masons are pretty unlikely.
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and that should read "three Ms are pretty unlikely" of course. So when Masons claim, I'm going to assume that there is no UB.
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vote: faust.
Yeah... I'm not feeling good about the direction you're heading here.
Man... we are in the one game where I don't have a scum read on you, and now you've got to vote for me.
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What's the benefit of them claiming so early? We don't want them to wait until LYLO but having them claim now just gives scum better NK targets IMO.
On the other hand, I don't see scum getting so invested in a theory argument, so I'm going to switch to vote: silverspawn
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What's the benefit of them claiming so early? We don't want them to wait until LYLO but having them claim now just gives scum better NK targets IMO.
On the other hand, I don't see scum getting so invested in a theory argument, so I'm going to switch to vote: silverspawn
Late claims always have a possibility of scum tactics. Scum wants to claim late, not early.
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What's the benefit of them claiming so early? We don't want them to wait until LYLO but having them claim now just gives scum better NK targets IMO.
On the other hand, I don't see scum getting so invested in a theory argument, so I'm going to switch to vote: silverspawn
What's your read on Joseph?
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vote: faust.
Yeah... I'm not feeling good about the direction you're heading here.
Man... we are in the one game where I don't have a scum read on you, and now you've got to vote for me.
The irony, right?
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
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Joseph, I think you are scum, so the idea of you telling me to be more helpful is kind of funny
dim dim
and I just posted a reads list, so there you go
Yes, that was helpful, thanks :)
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't think you're scum, think what your doing would be a really dumb scum move, as it attracts attention to yourself.
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
Hence, Unvote: faust .
On a different note, I've had problems logging onto f.ds (i've been able to get on twice in 3hrs), so if I'm away/slow-responding, it's not my fault.
Worrying about people perceiving your posting patterns in a certain way is a bit of a scum tell.
No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
So I don't know who you are or why you're arguing this point, but you're wrong here. Though perhaps your wrongness is more of a factor of language choice.
"Tell" doesn't mean one can draw unmitigated and provable deductions. It means it's indicative of a scum way of thinking. It's obvious that "there's no tell that 100% works". Obvious to the point that there is really no content in saying so, which makes me wonder for what reason you made this post at all.
"Tell" means someone is betraying a line of thought that is more likely to come from scum than from town. It can, of course, come from both. As I've argued many, many times before, scum has to worry a lot more about how there posts are interpreted. They also have to worry about how their posting patterns appear. They have to think, e.g., "is lurking giving me away?" and often that causes them to feel like they need to post more, which gives their posts a bit of a constructed feel. (It's hard to find stuff to post about if you're thinking "I really need to post something of substance.") Scum is more likely to think that their absence for a very short period needs to be excused (because of forum problems), because they're going to think of everything they do as possibly giving them away.
This I know because I've been scum before, and these are the kind of thoughts that go through my head. This is why scum is a lot harder. Now, of course, other people have different thoughts, but I only have my own thoughts, and what I glean from others' actions, to go by, and we're all playing within the same parameters here, so I often use what I consider to be my scum tells as a means of finding scum. It's worked out well for me so far.
Now that that's out of the way, the real question is, why did you have such confidence Joseph was town? (This was before his claims.)
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Not sure what this means.. aren't you talking about night death?
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Not sure what this means.. aren't you talking about night death?
I was reading up on Mafia strategies because I have no idea what you all are discussing. I think I'm using the term wrong, but bussing is Mafia members throwing one of themselves into the fire so one of the other Mafia members looks more credible, but it has to be done right, and in this instance, there's no way for any Mafia player to gain any sort of advantage to sack one of their own via lynching. Yeah, I did use the term 'bussing' wrong. You can't nightkill a Mafia player. As far as I can tell, at least.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Not sure what this means.. aren't you talking about night death?
I was reading up on Mafia strategies because I have no idea what you all are discussing. I think I'm using the term wrong, but bussing is Mafia members throwing one of themselves into the fire so one of the other Mafia members looks more credible, but it has to be done right, and in this instance, there's no way for any Mafia player to gain any sort of advantage to sack one of their own via lynching. Yeah, I did use the term 'bussing' wrong. You can't nightkill a Mafia player. As far as I can tell, at least.
When someone dies, their alignment and role is revealed (excepting special cases). Mafia players can be night killed, by other factions, vigs, or even their own faction if they wanted. (It's really hard to come up with a scenario where you'd actually want to do this, but edge cases~.) Bussing is generally when one Mafia players tries to lynch his partner, generally done for town cred.
But anyway, my point is is that if Joseph is night killed, his alignment gets posted, so there's no wondering any more.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
Yeah, gut feeling I don't think Joseph lies here. Yes I understand we (likely) get a new unclaimed 1-shot Cop, but is that worth sacrificing a town player for? Maybe it is, but I have a hard time lynching someone I believe is town for strategic purposes.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
Yeah, gut feeling I don't think Joseph lies here. Yes I understand we (likely) get a new unclaimed 1-shot Cop, but is that worth sacrificing a town player for? Maybe it is, but I have a hard time lynching someone I believe is town for strategic purposes.
Yeah, I see that, but I think Joseph is scum. Is there anything besides your gut that tells you otherwise? 1-shot Cop is a really convenient fakeclaim as well.
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No, and I haven't done any kind of due diligence. Just the soft-claim thing first.. it read as genuine to me.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
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oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.
A single mason wouldn't really be a IC. you would just have to trust the person that they are a mason but there would be no way to prove it.
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actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.
I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.
I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.
I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.
M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.
A single mason wouldn't really be a IC. you would just have to trust the person that they are a mason but there would be no way to prove it.
there would be, because UB could counterclaim
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ah fair enough. I guess that works.
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oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
But why should we keep him alive?
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.
It obviously is beneficial to keep him alive one night. Why do you want him dead so badly? VOTE: FAUST I think you should be lynched. You're acting suspicious.
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I enjoyed you all trying to figure out the setup when you could have just asked me.
Anyway, given the "E" mechanic, all cop/doctor claims of all types are "safe" for all claimers.
The general inclusion of the UB means mislynching a PR on D1 isn't disastrous. That doesn't mean we should aim to do it.
I still like silverspawn for the lynch.
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Can we get a vote count with deadline?
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Vote Count 1.4
chairs (1) : sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (1) : faust
seprix (1) : EgorK
faust (2) : Seprix, chairs
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, Awaclus, Hydrad
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.
Interesting I didn't think of that.
In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor is lynching him maybe the correct move? Hes already outed so him living till tomorrow isn't very likely unless we have a doctor in the game so his 1 shot isn't really useful at all. But if we lynch him then our UB should at least be able to use that 1 shot well.
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In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop
Fixed that for you.
But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.
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In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop
Fixed that for you.
But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.
You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?
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In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop
Fixed that for you.
But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.
You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?
Yes, but if you kill me, then the scum kill leads to 2 bad kills. If I survive, then the scum have options to kill me or someone else, but not both. So they'll only be able to kill 1 of the people they want to.
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You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?
Unless I make it.
But yeah, it's bad.
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So look, I'm summarizing why lynching Joseph is good:
1. He's easily the scummiest player around. Just reread if you don't believe him. Textbook scum tells. Now you may say "it's too obvious", but this would be Joseph's first scum play, and because of that, it's reasonable that he would make these mistakes.
2. Everyone has taken a stand. Lynching Joseph will give us a lot of data to analyze - how did people act towards the lynch? We get much more out of this than say, out of lynching a lurker.
3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
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Man how much better can a D1 case even be?
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In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop
Fixed that for you.
But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.
You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?
Yes, but if you kill me, then the scum kill leads to 2 bad kills. If I survive, then the scum have options to kill me or someone else, but not both. So they'll only be able to kill 1 of the people they want to.
Everyone could arge like that.
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*argue
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Yes, but if you kill me, then the scum kill leads to 2 bad kills. If I survive, then the scum have options to kill me or someone else, but not both. So they'll only be able to kill 1 of the people they want to.
Who else are they wanting to kill, man? If you are telling the truth, you are the only player they know has a town power role. You're it.
The argument some are making is, welp, let's just lynch you and get your power into the UB's hands. That way, we still get an investigation guaranteed.
As others mentioned, a doctor in existence negates that argument, but then the doctor is protecting you instead of their preferred target.
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3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
How do you know there's a roleblocker?
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Vote: Joseph
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Back to Joseph for a minute:
You know what the big issue is here? Joseph is making the classic mistake when trying to survive. He's arguing about why his lynch is bad, not why the case is bad.
Consider this analogy;
Joseph works at a bank as a teller. His boss comes up to him one day at the end of work and says "Joseph, you are fired. You've made too many errors at the teller window and you're costing the bank $25.00 a day in losses. Sorry."
Joseph replies, "but boss, it's not a good idea to fire me because Sally's out on maternity leave and with all the new business coming in from our free checking with a free toaster campaign, you really need all the teller windows open! It's not a great idea to fire me right now."
Joseph never addresses the issue of making errors and losing money. He just tries to explain why it's bad for the bank to fire him.
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So look, I'm summarizing why lynching Joseph is good:
1. He's easily the scummiest player around. Just reread if you don't believe him. Textbook scum tells. Now you may say "it's too obvious", but this would be Joseph's first scum play, and because of that, it's reasonable that he would make these mistakes.
2. Everyone has taken a stand. Lynching Joseph will give us a lot of data to analyze - how did people act towards the lynch? We get much more out of this than say, out of lynching a lurker.
3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
So you're saying that it would be beneficial for scum to attempt to lynch a random townie instead of town!Joseph here? That sounds counter-intuitive to me, but maybe it's right.
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3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
How do you know there's a roleblocker?
I don't know. I said it's likely that they roleblock, that is, if they have a roleblocker, that's what they will do, and I think it's more likely that they have one than not.
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I mean, if Joseph is telling the truth, there only needs to be one more PR for scum to have a roleblocker.
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3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
How do you know there's a roleblocker?
You don't, unless you're scum, it's perfectly possible that the mafia could be normal goons.
The chance of 6 Ts is 1/64, the chance of exactly 5 Ts is 6/64, so there's a 7/64 = 11% chance that there's no roleblocker (please correct if maths is wrong!). In that case, lynching me seems really bad, as it gives all the killing power to the scum team.
Plus, there's no guarantee that I will use the shot, so if you don't lynch me, I could always not use it, and so if I die, it passes to the UB anyway. Adding uncertainties for who the scum should kill can only be a good idea IMO.
Back to Joseph for a minute:
Yes, but the case is bad because I can still use my cop ability, and the fact that the scum won't know if I'm using it or not posess problems for them- to kill me or not to kill me? If there is a roleblocker, then my presence may cause them to waste their ability on blocking me, and not another PR (it's likely there is another PR in this game), which is good for us. If there's a doctor then this case is terrible, since the Doctor can save me, which means there probably won't be a NK, plus I get to use the cop ability.
Granted, the doctor can't protect who they want, but I'm probably the most likely target anyway, so the one who needs protecting.
faust's case seems strong if and only if the mafia have a roleblocker and we don't have a doctor to protect me. But this isn't guaranteed, and if this is not the case, then I believe that the above shows I'm still useful to town.
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MATHS IS WRONG, we can't be in 6T territory.
So the chance of 5T is 6/64 = 9.4%, still enough to think about.
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3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.
How do you know there's a roleblocker?
You don't, unless you're scum, it's perfectly possible that the mafia could be normal goons.
The chance of 6 Ts is 1/64, the chance of exactly 5 Ts is 6/64, so there's a 7/64 = 11% chance that there's no roleblocker (please correct if maths is wrong!). In that case, lynching me seems really bad, as it gives all the killing power to the scum team.
You are ignoring the fact that you are supposed to know that there are not 6 Ts. Scumslip?
PPE: Well, you realized it faster.
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Back to Joseph for a minute:
Yes, but the case is bad because I can still use my cop ability, and the fact that the scum won't know if I'm using it or not posess problems for them- to kill me or not to kill me? If there is a roleblocker, then my presence may cause them to waste their ability on blocking me, and not another PR (it's likely there is another PR in this game), which is good for us. If there's a doctor then this case is terrible, since the Doctor can save me, which means there probably won't be a NK, plus I get to use the cop ability.
You do realize that you continue to do exactly what ash critized in the first place?
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MATHS IS WRONG, we can't be in 6T territory.
So the chance of 5T is 6/64 = 9.4%, still enough to think about.
So you are asking us to go for the 9.4 % scenario instead of the 91.6 % one?
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What's the pro-silverspawn argument? I'm beginning to see an argument for town!faust even though I think he's dead wrong on the appropriate route to take with regards to Joseph, but I'm not interested in lynching Joseph (Today), so I'm seeing a couple people say silverspawn - and since I'm starting to rethink my first lynch choice...
unvote
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What's the pro-silverspawn argument? I'm beginning to see an argument for town!faust even though I think he's dead wrong on the appropriate route to take with regards to Joseph, but I'm not interested in lynching Joseph (Today), so I'm seeing a couple people say silverspawn - and since I'm starting to rethink my first lynch choice...
unvote
Do you think Joseph is town?
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Back to Joseph for a minute:
Yes, but the case is bad because I can still use my cop ability, and the fact that the scum won't know if I'm using it or not posess problems for them- to kill me or not to kill me? If there is a roleblocker, then my presence may cause them to waste their ability on blocking me, and not another PR (it's likely there is another PR in this game), which is good for us. If there's a doctor then this case is terrible, since the Doctor can save me, which means there probably won't be a NK, plus I get to use the cop ability.
You do realize that you continue to do exactly what ash critized in the first place?
Arguing is hard.
On a serious not, the case relies on there being a roleblocker, and no doctor. With either of these assumptions being wrong, the case is bad, for the reasons I mentioned about RBs/Doctors. The case also wants to give power to the UB, but hasn't considered that they could be NK (with probability 1/8 if I or other town are lynched), in which case we lose the shot anyway.
To sum up, the problem with the case is it only works under certain assumptions (RB and no doctor), otherwise there are many options/situations which haven't been considered by the case.
MATHS IS WRONG, we can't be in 6T territory.
So the chance of 5T is 6/64 = 9.4%, still enough to think about.
So you are asking us to go for the 9.4 % scenario instead of the 91.6 % one?
No, because your case needs no doctors too, so the %age is significantly lower. (not entirely sure how to work it exactly, but the chance of a doctor on any randomisation is 10%)
So, the bad cases are: 5T + no doctor, and UB is NKed, not just the 9.4% for 5Ts.
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No, because your case needs no doctors too, so the %age is significantly lower. (not entirely sure how to work it exactly, but the chance of a doctor on any randomisation is 10%)
So, the bad cases are: 5T + no doctor, and UB is NKed, not just the 9.4% for 5Ts.
I never assumed no doctors. Plus, my case is also that you're playing scummily. What do you have to say about that?
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No, because your case needs no doctors too, so the %age is significantly lower. (not entirely sure how to work it exactly, but the chance of a doctor on any randomisation is 10%)
So, the bad cases are: 5T + no doctor, and UB is NKed, not just the 9.4% for 5Ts.
I never assumed no doctors. Plus, my case is also that you're playing scummily. What do you have to say about that?
Also, as a side note, if you're telling the truth and there is a doctor, then there's guaranteed to be a Strongman, so you could always be killed if scum wants to.
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If there are any doctors, please come forward.
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If there are any doctors, please come forward.
uh lets not
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No, because your case needs no doctors too, so the %age is significantly lower. (not entirely sure how to work it exactly, but the chance of a doctor on any randomisation is 10%)
So, the bad cases are: 5T + no doctor, and UB is NKed, not just the 9.4% for 5Ts.
I never assumed no doctors. Plus, my case is also that you're playing scummily. What do you have to say about that?
I disagree that I've been playing scummy, what evidence do you have? I've reread and nothing seems super-scummy.
The edit on my reads, where I changed you from town to scum was based on a mistake, I'd said previously I thought your interactions with sudgy/chairs were scummy. Although, I never actually voted for you, because there was a possibility of a quicklynch there, which was bad.
I don't think chairs wagon was scummy (which you accused me of in #216), as it was an attempt to get more information/discussion. I've withdrawn from voting chairs, at it seems an easy mislynch.
Apart from that, I don't see how I'm scummy. I've contributed to the game, whereas many players have been far less active than me, and I've tried to contribute discussion and information to push this game towards a good lynch, which I no longer feel we're going to get. Please could you enlighten me into how I'm so obviously the scummiest player in this game?
On the other hand, all this game, you seem to be tunnelled on voting for me. It was you that basically forced me to reveal, and now you leading the "let's kill him anyway" brigade. Why have you been so intent on lynching me? Tunnelling can be a scummy move. Every time I try to discuss things, it seems that you want to turn it into a reason why I'm scum.
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If there are any doctors, please come forward.
No. If a doctor comes forward, then either:
(1). I'll get lynched anyway, and then the doctor will get NKed.
(2). I don't get lynched, and there's a RB, then the RB will block the doctor, and I'll get NKed.
(3). I don't get lynched, and there's no RB, then the doctor is NKed.
None of these are any better than if the doctor doesn't reveal themselves.
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I wrote up this nice post with quotes, and then deleted it. I'm too lazy to do it again, so you'll have to live with the short version.
Your votes are sheepish, you're opportunistic and always jumping whatever wagon you find. Your votes are weakly justified. Your claim was convenient, and you didn't for a minute refuse to claim, even though you've professed to find me, who was urging you to vote, scummy.
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Definitely no more claiming by anyone, please.
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My vote remains with Faust. I think Joseph is innocent. I find nothing scummy with his argument. I say give him one night.
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Joseph, all of your defenses continue to rely on you being a 1-Shot Cop, which we don't know to be true.
You need to come up with some defenses that are not related to the importance of a 1-Shot Cop existing.
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My vote remains with Faust. I think Joseph is innocent. I find nothing scummy with his argument. I say give him one night.
Can you sum up why I'm so scummy, and refute my points on Joseph?
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What's the pro-silverspawn argument? I'm beginning to see an argument for town!faust even though I think he's dead wrong on the appropriate route to take with regards to Joseph, but I'm not interested in lynching Joseph (Today), so I'm seeing a couple people say silverspawn - and since I'm starting to rethink my first lynch choice...
unvote
Do you think Joseph is town?
Yes, but your tunneling on him has me feeling that you are as well.
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Joseph, all of your defenses continue to rely on you being a 1-Shot Cop, which we don't know to be true.
You need to come up with some defenses that are not related to the importance of a 1-Shot Cop existing.
This is true. Don't say "You don't want to lynch the 1-shot cop, which is me, because that would be bad". Instead explain why the arguments for you being scum are wrong (I think somebody else already suggested this).
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What's the pro-silverspawn argument? I'm beginning to see an argument for town!faust even though I think he's dead wrong on the appropriate route to take with regards to Joseph, but I'm not interested in lynching Joseph (Today), so I'm seeing a couple people say silverspawn - and since I'm starting to rethink my first lynch choice...
unvote
Do you think Joseph is town?
Yes, but your tunneling on him has me feeling that you are as well.
Really? I thought that by now "faust tunnels D1" is an established meta to the point where I would be seen as scummy for following it.
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I got ignored.
So you're saying that it would be beneficial for scum to attempt to lynch a random townie instead of town!Joseph here? That sounds counter-intuitive to me, but maybe it's right.
If lynching town!Joseph is not what scum wants, we should definitely lynch Joseph. I'd appreciate the input of someone whose intuition is more reliable than mine here.
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Vote Count 1.5
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
Joseph2302 (2) : faust, Hydrad
faust (1) : Seprix
chairs (1) : sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
seprix (1) : EgorK
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, Awaclus, chairs
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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You can't make an argument for anybody though. There's no reason not to lynch me, you, and your mom. Everyone knows whether they are scum or not, and that's all you know. We can call Joseph on his BS next day if he's BSing. So, to put it simply, Joseph is the only possible lead we have right now. Faust wants Joseph dead, and since I think that keeping Joseph alive for a day is very important to this investigation, I think that Faust is scum for wanting to hinder what we have going here. That's my reasoning.
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I got ignored.
So you're saying that it would be beneficial for scum to attempt to lynch a random townie instead of town!Joseph here? That sounds counter-intuitive to me, but maybe it's right.
If lynching town!Joseph is not what scum wants, we should definitely lynch Joseph. I'd appreciate the input of someone whose intuition is more reliable than mine here.
Sorry, I didn't realize that was a question. Well, assuming Joseph is town, scum obviously likes that lynch better than a random one because they don't want to be lynched themselves by accident. But yeah, the thing scum fears most is investigations, and now they have one threat they can eliminate. I would argue that, if scum got to choose (without us knowing) between "lynch Joseph" and "lynch a random other townie", they would go for the other townie.
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faust's explanation is predicated on unknown info, of course.
If the mafia team has a roleblocker or strongman, they might feel better about leaving the claimed cop alive. If they don't, I think they'd prefer to lynch him.
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Also, we are not lynching faust today.
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I wrote up this nice post with quotes, and then deleted it. I'm too lazy to do it again, so you'll have to live with the short version.
Your votes are sheepish, you're opportunistic and always jumping whatever wagon you find. Your votes are weakly justified. Your claim was convenient, and you didn't for a minute refuse to claim, even though you've professed to find me, who was urging you to vote, scummy.
I feel like I've justified my votes okay, I made it clear that I was voting for you coz of the weird thing with sudgy & chairs, and chairs because he felt the most scummy at the time. I haven't been jumping on loads of wagons, as the only votes I've made are:
ashersky: in the flavour thing, was right at the time, as he was directly challenging me (turned out that all that bit made no sense anyway)
chairs: seemed scummy at the time, but I gradually got less and less confident, until I unvoted.
faust: never actually voted for, but continually said was scummy (except for in 1 post). Why were you so super-supportive of chairs early on, with not much information to use?
I didn't mind claiming because it seemed safe, and I was the person most in trouble anyway. I thought that claiming my role would not disadvantage town too much, and that this would allow the town to not lose their cop. But now it seems I might be lynched anyway, with no guarantee of a UB existing or not being NKed.
Joseph, all of your defenses continue to rely on you being a 1-Shot Cop, which we don't know to be true.
You need to come up with some defenses that are not related to the importance of a 1-Shot Cop existing.
This is true. Don't say "You don't want to lynch the 1-shot cop, which is me, because that would be bad". Instead explain why the arguments for you being scum are wrong (I think somebody else already suggested this).
Where are the arguments for me being scum? Everyone has just said "I think Joseph is scum", but I honestly can't see where in my posting has been scummy. (I did already say this in:
faust said "it's not the worst course of action"- why not? give reasons. Then, in , you say that I'm scummy because I did weird things, but chairs isn't scummy despite doing weird things- that doesn't make sense. And now you're tunnelling me, which I do think is scummy from you (although others disagree).
seems faust & silverspawn are basing my scumminess on feelings, having played with me once before- that isn't statistically strong evidence.
Unless clear evidence of my scumminess is stated, I can't defend myself. I've posted why I think faust's suggestions are wrong, but no-one else has given proper information on why I'm scum.
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Also, we are not lynching faust today.
+1 would no longer lynch faust today.
I see the argument that says "mafia might just block Joseph and lead us to lynch him D2 instead", so that's a good point from this quote:
faust's explanation is predicated on unknown info, of course.
If the mafia team has a roleblocker or strongman, they might feel better about leaving the claimed cop alive. If they don't, I think they'd prefer to lynch him.
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Also, we are not lynching faust today.
+1 would no longer lynch faust today.
I see the argument that says "mafia might just block Joseph and lead us to lynch him D2 instead", so that's a good point from this quote:
faust's explanation is predicated on unknown info, of course.
If the mafia team has a roleblocker or strongman, they might feel better about leaving the claimed cop alive. If they don't, I think they'd prefer to lynch him.
Okay. What are the odds of roleblockers? Will the police power pass down to someone else? If the odds for roleblockers are high, and police power CAN be transferred, then hell. Then we should lynch Joseph. But I don't know the answers to these questions, and until then, I won't be swayed from Faust.
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Okay. What are the odds of roleblockers? Will the police power pass down to someone else? If the odds for roleblockers are high, and police power CAN be transferred, then hell. Then we should lynch Joseph. But I don't know the answers to these questions, and until then, I won't be swayed from Faust.
Mathematical odds aren't that important. Just look at the setup. Two or more non-T rolls guarantees scum has a roleblocker and at least 1 shot of strongman.
If you believe Joseph, then the odds are just whether or not you think there's another town power role.
And remember, scum has a subset of known setup knowledge (# of Ts +/- 1), so they can mess with all of that.
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Okay. What are the odds of roleblockers? Will the police power pass down to someone else? If the odds for roleblockers are high, and police power CAN be transferred, then hell. Then we should lynch Joseph. But I don't know the answers to these questions, and until then, I won't be swayed from Faust.
Mathematical odds aren't that important. Just look at the setup. Two or more non-T rolls guarantees scum has a roleblocker and at least 1 shot of strongman.
If you believe Joseph, then the odds are just whether or not you think there's another town power role.
And remember, scum has a subset of known setup knowledge (# of Ts +/- 1), so they can mess with all of that.
Joseph will either live and RB'd, or will die. If he is truly scum, he will claim to be RB'd, meaning he'll be lynched either way. If he dies, then he can't give us his information unless there is a Doctor, which is moot anyways if there is a RB. I guess we have to lynch.
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Mathematical odds aren't that important. Just look at the setup. Two or more non-T rolls guarantees scum has a roleblocker and at least 1 shot of strongman.
If you believe Joseph, then the odds are just whether or not you think there's another town power role.
These odds are 50/50 on having another power role or not.
Also, if you try to pass the cop power to the UB, I believe there's only just over 50% chance it will work i.e. the UB can use the shot.
Assuming the UB isn't lynched, then there's a 1/8 chance the UB is NKed.
Also, the UB could already be a mason, with 35.4% chance I think (6 * 0.1 * (0.9)^5 ), although if you believe I'm 1-shot cop, then this decreases to 32.8% (5 * 0.1 * (0.9)^4)).
Whereas if you believe I'm the 1-shot cop, then there's a 50% chance I can use the shot anyway.
Also, I'm going to bed, will probably be back in 8-10 hours, hope to still be alive by then.
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Mathematical odds aren't that important. Just look at the setup. Two or more non-T rolls guarantees scum has a roleblocker and at least 1 shot of strongman.
If you believe Joseph, then the odds are just whether or not you think there's another town power role.
These odds are 50/50 on having another power role or not.
Also, if you try to pass the cop power to the UB, I believe there's only just over 50% chance it will work i.e. the UB can use the shot.
Assuming the UB isn't lynched, then there's a 1/8 chance the UB is NKed.
Also, the UB could already be a mason, with 35.4% chance I think (6 * 0.1 * (0.9)^5 ), although if you believe I'm 1-shot cop, then this decreases to 32.8% (5 * 0.1 * (0.9)^4)).
Whereas if you believe I'm the 1-shot cop, then there's a 50% chance I can use the shot anyway.
Also, I'm going to bed, will probably be back in 8-10 hours, hope to still be alive by then.
Your math is off.
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Assuming Joseph tells the truth, the odds of there being another PR are 1 - 0.5^5 = 96,7 %
These are also the odds of scum having a Roleblocker/Strongman in this scenario.
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Joseph's post reads really manipulative - do the math where it's in your favor, stay vague otherwise.
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"Don't lynch me because I'm town" is always my defense as town, so of course there's nothing wrong with it.
Let's not lynch Joseph today and lynch someone more better.
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"Don't lynch me because I'm town" is always my defense as town, so of course there's nothing wrong with it.
Let's not lynch Joseph today and lynch someone more better.
There are many more betterer candidates to choose from.
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"Don't lynch me because I'm town" is always my defense as town, so of course there's nothing wrong with it.
Let's not lynch Joseph today and lynch someone more better.
There are many more betterer candidates to choose from.
Enumerate such a list.
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Joseph's post reads really manipulative - do the math where it's in your favor, stay vague otherwise.
You really think scum is going to think "No one's going to double check this, better fudge this math"?
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I am drunk. And falling behind on this. Game I will try to make a coherent post tomorrow. I apologize. I still think that silverpsawn is scummy. I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him. I do not want to lynch ashersky. I would be okay lynching chairs. That is my position.
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I am drunk. And falling behind on this. Game I will try to make a coherent post tomorrow. I apologize. I still think that silverpsawn is scummy. I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him. I do not want to lynch ashersky. I would be okay lynching chairs. That is my position.
This is amazing.
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I am drunk. And falling behind on this. Game I will try to make a coherent post tomorrow. I apologize. I still think that silverpsawn is scummy. I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him. I do not want to lynch ashersky. I would be okay lynching chairs. That is my position.
This is amazing.
What, the perfect grammar even though he's drunk?
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I am drunk. And falling behind on this. Game I will try to make a coherent post tomorrow. I apologize. I still think that silverpsawn is scummy. I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him. I do not want to lynch ashersky. I would be okay lynching chairs. That is my position.
This is amazing.
What, the perfect grammar even though he's drunk?
Not perfect grammar. "And falling behind on this." is a fragment. Even if you corrected it to the "And falling behind on this game." that was clearly intended. Plus, "I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him" is a run-on sentence, and "Joseph" should be capitalized.
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I am drunk. And falling behind on this. Game I will try to make a coherent post tomorrow. I apologize. I still think that silverpsawn is scummy. I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him. I do not want to lynch ashersky. I would be okay lynching chairs. That is my position.
This is amazing.
What, the perfect grammar even though he's drunk?
Not perfect grammar. "And falling behind on this." is a fragment. Even if you corrected it to the "And falling behind on this game." that was clearly intended. Plus, "I thought that joseph was towny but I will reread him" is a run-on sentence, and "Joseph" should be capitalized.
You know what we did to the Nazis in WWII, right? :p
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No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
But town doesn't typically have to worry too much about looking town as scum does, because 1) they really are town so any arguments against them would be false anyway 2) even if they get lynched, it doesn't hurt town as much as lynching scum hurts scum. Is there any particular reason why you don't want to lynch Joseph?
I as town worry about what I say. I stopped bringing attention to it because people always got mad at me for it :/ Anyway, I don't think it's an alignment tell, especially for newbies.
Now that I've caught up with everything, Vote: Joseph. I had a townread on him, but the way he said his claim was extremely scummy. I don't know why chairs was dropped and still don't see him too towny, but I like this better.
If we lynch Joseph:
If he's scum: Yay!
If he's town: UB inherits his role, and we get a cop result still (small chance of no UB, but Masons aren't claiming, so I don't think they're here). Not the worst thing.
If we don't:
If he's scum: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We might trust an incorrect result, and leave a scum running rampant. Very bad.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We don't know anything, and leave a scum running rampant. Bad.
If he's town:
If he is killed, we lose our cop shot. Very very bad.
If not: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: We know his result is correct, and his lynch itself is a VT lynch. It's still alright.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: VT lynch.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
In the end, I like lynching today better. There are too many bad things that can happen if we don't lynch him.
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Okay, Joseph.
First post is a vote. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448581#msg448581) This in character, because he had an insane amount of RVS votes in his last game
Second post is another vote. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448598#msg448598)
Third post is an unvote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448604#msg448604)
Some flavor talk. Sixth post is another vote. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448646#msg448646)
Eigth post is another vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448723#msg448723)
So, actually this is looking much more similar to his last game than I thought it did. I don't really know how important this is, but everything that's similar to his first game is definitely a pro town argument.
However, he also explains his votes a lot, which is one of the best scum tells. Let's --- pause --- the reread here and see how much he did that in his other game.
Okay, he does it a lot. So, I'll conclude here that his RVS behavior is actually very similar.
Onward
Okay, nothing important happens for a while. In #171, he says the chairs lynch is quite good, and there is not currently a better option. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448964#msg448964) That's okay, but it's weirdly phrased. We're really early in the game, so we wouldn't really go ahead with the lynch. He's just looking best right now
Reads List. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449070#msg449070) It's, uh, pretty nooby. Basically just, everyone who is active and appears to be making sense has a town read, and everyone who doesn't has a scum read. That's a horrible metric for alignments, but it's not an unrealistic one to use for town!Joseph.
hey look, I'm being funny. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449082#msg449082)
#198 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449136#msg449136) wonders why people think he's scummy. He does that a lot.
Hey, this is interesting. #217 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449242#msg449242) he says he is "unsure about everyone". For town!Joseph I can totally believe this. For scum!Joseph, this would have to be fabricated. I'm not sure if Joseph is the kind of player who does this. It's sort of a town slip? But of course I've never seen scum!Joseph, so dunno
Rhyming. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449277#msg449277) A clear scum tell.
At 248 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449374#msg449374), he is white knighting me. I've talked about that before.
Then there is the claiming talk. You know what happened.
Okay, so this actually makes me want to lynch him less. Not that this kind of reread is not that thorough though, because it ignores context/flow. It's more useful to analyze posting styles than behavior in terms of wagons and that stuff. For that, rereading everything is better. I might do that later.
For now, vote: Awagork. Scummy and lurking. I don't like a sudgy lynch that much anymore, because I really like his last post. I'm still not horribly opposed to a Joseph lynch though. ASH LOOK HOW I AM DEFENDING MY SCUM BUDDY BY FABRICATING AN OPINION SWITCH OMFG
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\Vote: Silverspawn for not voting anyone yet.
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\Vote: Silverspawn for not voting anyone yet.
You are in this game?
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I hope so. It's probably against the rules for me to post here otherwise.
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yeah I was wondering about that
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\Vote: Silverspawn for not voting anyone yet.
Bold that.
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I apologise for my Maths being wrong last night, I knew it would be at some point, and I was pretty tired when I did it (was past 1am here).
Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
You're right, it's silly.
I think it's unlikely that ADK and Joseph have the same alignment.
faust, do you still believe this? Because then exactly one of me and ADK is scum, so we should also be looking at the possibility that ADK is scum.
IF you trust that I'm the 1-shot cop, then this logic suggests ADK is scum, so why not lynch him instead? I still think that people are ignoring the fact that we could lynch scum in D1, but instead they want to lynch me, despite the fact my power might not pass onto the UB effectively.
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So, all I need to do to get us a better lynch is convince people I'm town, then if faust's logic is correct, ADK is probably scum. In this case, I think lynching someone who is probably scum would be a good idea.
As I know I'm town, this suggests that ADK is scum, so Vote: ADK.
Although I'm still pretty sure there's a scum lurking around, maybe EgorK, he hasn't posted much and hasn't posted a V/LA.
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So, here goes:
I think I've played the same way as in M53, when everyone seemed to correctly think I was town. As silverspawn suggested, I started in the same style, with RVs, and then moved on to flavour topic, because it seemed like a fun way to start the game (I of course didn't know it was going to get messy!).
Then, when the information started, I justified my voting patterns, unlike some other people, especially many currently on my bandwagon, who have jumped on there without justification for their actions. I justified my ideas for thinking that chairs and faust were scummy at the time, although as the game progressed, I decided against either of these votes. I now thinking faust's way of pushing me is probably a good town move, although I don't fully agree with his conclusions of lynching me.
And then there's the reveal, which as I already mentioned seemed like a safe thing for me to do, since it seemed likely that without it I would be lynched anyway. After this, I've tried to use as much information and statistics, so people can make an informed decision for themselves about who to lynch. If everyone believes I'm the best lynch, then go ahead and lynch me, although I personally disagree.
Sure, I've made a couple of mistakes in this game (faust's role in my list, when at the time I thought he was scum, and some of my Maths has been off), but these have been genuine mistakes.
I think we need to stop looking at only me for scum options, and look for other wagons too. After all, faust thinks me and ADk are not the same alignment, which means he could very well be scum. And a lurky scum seems probably too, as there are quite a few lurky people (I know that some of them are V/LA though).
To conclude, I'm town, so we should explore scum options to lynch.
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To conclude, I'm town, so we should explore scum options to lynch.
And then lynch you if no other good options present themselves. I think that sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to do.
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I apologise for my Maths being wrong last night, I knew it would be at some point, and I was pretty tired when I did it (was past 1am here).
Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
You're right, it's silly.
I think it's unlikely that ADK and Joseph have the same alignment.
faust, do you still believe this? Because then exactly one of me and ADK is scum, so we should also be looking at the possibility that ADK is scum.
IF you trust that I'm the 1-shot cop, then this logic suggests ADK is scum, so why not lynch him instead? I still think that people are ignoring the fact that we could lynch scum in D1, but instead they want to lynch me, despite the fact my power might not pass onto the UB effectively.
I'm no longer attached to that theory. And I don't trust that you're a 1-shot Cop.
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To conclude, I'm town, so we should explore scum options to lynch.
And then lynch you if no other good options present themselves. I think that sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to do.
Hmm, it definitely wouldn't hurt to talk about other options... what are they though? I don't get a scum vibe from silver, don't want to lynch him. chairs reads somewhat townie to me. ADK I guess I could do... There are lurkier people like sudgy/WW/EgorK, but I don't feel too good about lynching one of them yet. Maaybe Egor, but really I think we might be able to catch him later if he's scum.
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So, all I need to do to get us a better lynch is convince people I'm town, then if faust's logic is correct, ADK is probably scum. In this case, I think lynching someone who is probably scum would be a good idea.
As I know I'm town, this suggests that ADK is scum, so Vote: ADK.
Although I'm still pretty sure there's a scum lurking around, maybe EgorK, he hasn't posted much and hasn't posted a V/LA.
Why do YOU think ADK is scum?
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So, all I need to do to get us a better lynch is convince people I'm town, then if faust's logic is correct, ADK is probably scum. In this case, I think lynching someone who is probably scum would be a good idea.
As I know I'm town, this suggests that ADK is scum, so Vote: ADK.
Although I'm still pretty sure there's a scum lurking around, maybe EgorK, he hasn't posted much and hasn't posted a V/LA.
Why do YOU think ADK is scum?
Well, he's had pretty much the same opinions as me, and so if you think I'm scummy, then surely he should be considered scummy too. So ADK scummy, because he's the same as me, who is apparently scummy. I'm not personally very convinced by this argument, as it relies on me being scummy.
I admit there's not many good scum targets, most people who've posted lots feel towny right now.
I respect fauts for trying to get as much information out of me, seems like a towny thing to do.
chairs is confusing, I feel less scummy about him the more i read.
silverspawn is not scummy enough to lynch right now.
Ashersky seems townie
Lurkers seem scummy to me, would probably be the best option for an alternative wagon.
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The problem with a lurker lynch is, if it's a mislynch, we leRn very little.
Granted, that's a reason scum likes to lurk. And that makes lurkers a good lynch target.
It's a cycle.
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The problem with a lurker lynch is, if it's a mislynch, we leRn very little.
Granted, that's a reason scum likes to lurk. And that makes lurkers a good lynch target.
It's a cycle.
And you can break out of that cycle by lynching lurkers until scum stops lurking.
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I haven't done a full reread yet but "we should lynch ADK because if you find me scummy then you should find him scummy because he has similar reads" is an astoundingly bad argument. If I vote joseph will I be hammering?
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Doesn't look like it, vote: Joseph
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I haven't done a full reread yet but "we should lynch ADK because if you find me scummy then you should find him scummy because he has similar reads" is an astoundingly bad argument. If I vote joseph will I be hammering?
I'm kind of clutching at straws here. I agree the argument is weak from my perspective, but other people who think I'm scum might also think you're scum too, because our votes, arguments & reads have been pretty similar.
Although I realised now it's super-terrible argument, so let's lynch a lurker.
Vote: EgorK
Also, Request: Vote Count.
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We have 3 days to lynch. We need to compile our options here and decide. Perhaps we all explain why we want to lynch a person. Personally, I really do think Faust is scum, but my vote won't do any good here, and for now, I'll unvote. We have Joseph, and anyone else who is particularly under the noose? I don't know anyone else. Maybe we can consider lynching the lurker. I don't know.
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I haven't done a full reread yet but "we should lynch ADK because if you find me scummy then you should find him scummy because he has similar reads" is an astoundingly bad argument. If I vote joseph will I be hammering?
I'm kind of clutching at straws here. I agree the argument is weak from my perspective, but other people who think I'm scum might also think you're scum too, because our votes, arguments & reads have been pretty similar.
Although I realised now it's super-terrible argument, so let's lynch a lurker.
Vote: EgorK
Also, Request: Vote Count.
Do you think I'm scum?
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This is officially going into the "too scummy/wonky to be scum" territory.
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We have 3 days, but it's Christmas, so lots of people (including myself) are away for lots of it. Maybe whilst I'm away, everyone will decide to kill scum instead of PR town.
Do you think I'm scum?
Not sure either way, but I was hoping other people would join in a wagon that wasn't me.
EgorK i think could well be scum, he's the lurkiest person without lots of V/LA excuses. If not him, then another lurker is scum.
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We have 3 days, but it's Christmas, so lots of people (including myself) are away for lots of it. Maybe whilst I'm away, everyone will decide to kill scum instead of PR town.
Do you think I'm scum?
Not sure either way, but I was hoping other people would join in a wagon that wasn't me.
EgorK i think could well be scum, he's the lurkiest person without lots of V/LA excuses. If not him, then another lurker is scum.
The unfortunate problem is that EgorK lurks a lot as either alignment.
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We have 3 days, but it's Christmas, so lots of people (including myself) are away for lots of it. Maybe whilst I'm away, everyone will decide to kill scum instead of PR town.
Do you think I'm scum?
Not sure either way, but I was hoping other people would join in a wagon that wasn't me.
EgorK i think could well be scum, he's the lurkiest person without lots of V/LA excuses. If not him, then another lurker is scum.
The unfortunate problem is that EgorK lurks a lot as either alignment.
Still, I don't like the fact the scum lurk generally. So if we lynch a lurker, then it will discourage lurking, which is good.
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Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
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The longer we go on, the more I want to lynch Joseph...
until
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
vote: sudgy for believing Joseph isn't lying -but- still suggesting that means we should lynch him. If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
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I actually start to like Joseph lynch after some thought. I think unexpirienced player is more likely to claim PR as scum. Also his PR likely would not be wasted even if he is town
Vote count please?
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Egork and Sudgy, you're both acting very scummy. We can't dive into bitter arguments and accusations. Joseph is all but innocent, because he has everything to lose and nothing to gain by claiming PR role so quickly, and I am inclined to believe Silverspawn's analysis, which confirms pro-town stance for him in my eyes too. As for everyone else, ADK, Awaclus, Wither, Hydrad, Chairs, and Ashersky all seem neutral or scummy and towny at the same time.
Faust still seems like a lynch for me, but I'm starting to question my reasoning for the lynch right now, so I'd say he's probably safe right now. Egork has been lurking most of the time, but he usually does that. Sudgy did post the post that made me think he and Faust were scum, and since Sudgy is still thought of as scum for me, I think I'm going to revote for Vote: Sudgy as of now.
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The longer we go on, the more I want to lynch Joseph...
until
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
vote: sudgy for believing Joseph isn't lying -but- still suggesting that means we should lynch him. If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
I like this, Sudgy's wording accepts Joseph's claim as true.
Vote: Sudgy
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If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
Great, finally a clear answer.
I re-read Joseph without Silverspawn's assistance earlier, and I came to the same conclusion as he did, pretty much — I don't think the evidence suggests that Joseph is scum. My favorite lynches right now are faust, sudgy and ashersky. I don't remember why I thought that ashersky was scummy though. Might have been that flavor thing, so it's definitely possible I'll change my opinion about him after I have re-read everything, which I definitely should do. Vote: faust for now.
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Why Faust? If it's just his treatment of Joseph, I think he would make this kind of argument as either town or scum. Maybe slightly more likely to make it as scum, but definitely not outside of town meta.
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Moderator, would you be so as kind as to show off the vote count?
(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzd3zsTsjT1qb62oho1_500.gif)
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The longer we go on, the more I want to lynch Joseph...
until
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
vote: sudgy for believing Joseph isn't lying -but- still suggesting that means we should lynch him. If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
I was saying that in his eyes. I still think he's scum.
Egork and Sudgy, you're both acting very scummy.
Why? Can you say what it is?
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Huh? Then what's the point you were making to Joseph?
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Why Faust? If it's just his treatment of Joseph, I think he would make this kind of argument as either town or scum. Maybe slightly more likely to make it as scum, but definitely not outside of town meta.
Well, I don't know faust's meta.
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Why? Can you say what it is?
vote: sudgy for believing Joseph isn't lying -but- still suggesting that means we should lynch him. If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
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Perhaps vote: sudgy is better.
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Christmas is almost upon us, and we still have no clue who the saboteurs are! "I do!" Someone shouted from the game table. "It is me! I just King's Courted all my saboteurs! Trash ALL the Provinces!"
That's not what I meant! But I appreciate that you all are busy finding the real impostor and not just playing games...we can play games at our party, but we have to have one first!
Vote Count 1.6
silverspawn (1) : ashersky,
Joseph2302 (4) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel
seprix (1) : EgorK
EgorK (1) : Joseph2302
sudgy (4) : chairs, Seprix, Witherweaver, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): silverspawn
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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V/LA Christmas & Boxing Day all day (will probably be back some point on Boxing Day).
In forum times, this means I'm busy from about 5pm Forum time today for 48ish hours. Might be able to post in 24ish hrs.
This is effective from now. I will definite be around for the deadline though.
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For people in here who do observe Old New Year (Jan 14th), when is Boxing day?
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Dec. 26th, the day after Christmas.
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This is officially going into the "too scummy/wonky to be scum" territory.
I don't think that argument is valid for newbies. Newbie scum can play exceptionally scummy.
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I don't like that sudgy wagon at all. What chairs pointed out was really nothing scummy, but somehow it managed to draw a lot of votes.
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Alright, I reread the earlier chunks of posts. I want to vote Chairs, but honestly scum most likely checks their PM/setup before making a PM-based accusation like that. This is mitigated by the self vote, which is sometimes a desperate scum attempt to emulate what town does (hi PPS).
ADK is probably town. I agree with what he's been saying.
Ash is probably town.
Silver is probably town but needs to cut the hell out of the silly voting. If we can't tell whether or not your vote counts we can't accurately deduce information or make decisions. Most antitown thing I've seen in Mafia thus far. Silver could be going for the "too anti town/scummy to be scum" but I'm inclined to think not here.
I understand the scum reads on Joseph, he was coming off super hedgey. But new players do that. I still don't want to lynch him today.
Gut instinct Hydrad is likely town here. First time ever, so consider this your Christmas present.
Sudgy I still feel good about, and I now think Faust is scummy. Partly because his reads are opposite mine as I'm reading, and more partly because he's done quite a bit of averting lynches (Chairs, Sudgy). A lot of confident "this lynch is bad, this lynch is good," stuff. This is a bit of a combination of white knighting and spreading confusion, as it's hard to pin a partner on you when you've been directing lynches too/from multiple people of different alignments.
I have no idea if that above makes sense, but I'm okay with that.
That new guy that has something that in my memory is a bee I don't think is scummy, but he never answered why he was defending pre-claim Joseph.
Anyone else in this game? Oh, Awaclus. I have nothing there.. seems reasonable, I like his reads from memory. Null to townish.
I want to lynch Sudgy or Faust. I want to want to lynch Chairs, but probably not.
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Also, I like that I've been honored to people's "not lynching D1" status.
Also, EgorK is in the game. I didn't like the arguments he made, which makes me see him as a bit scummy, but town can make arguments I don't like too. I'd be okay with lynching him.
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Probably doesn't help us much though, as I'm now going to get Nightkilled. :( at least if you don't lynch me, the chance of hitting scum is higher (3/11 not 3/12)- there are 3 scum, right?
Read this and the few posts preceding it. This just isn't how fake claims feel.
Vote: Faust
with an honorable mention to EgorK.
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I just got a PS4 for Christmas. Yay, I can't play Destiny because Lizard Squad. I'm furious. Curse them. My PS4 is a glowing brick right now because I cannot connect to the PSN.
Whitherweaver, I stated my reasonings for why Joseph was innocent. I don't think I need to repeat it. Perhaps clarify.
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I like that post by WW and am going to give him town points. Not "100% town" or anything but town points.
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I just got a PS4 for Christmas. Yay, I can't play Destiny because Lizard Squad. I'm furious. Curse them. My PS4 is a glowing brick right now because I cannot connect to the PSN.
Whitherweaver, I stated my reasonings for why Joseph was innocent. I don't think I need to repeat it. Perhaps clarify.
I also got a PS4 for Christmas! I'm playing Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, though.
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Sudgy I still feel good about, and I now think Faust is scummy. Partly because his reads are opposite mine as I'm reading, and more partly because he's done quite a bit of averting lynches (Chairs, Sudgy). A lot of confident "this lynch is bad, this lynch is good," stuff. This is a bit of a combination of white knighting and spreading confusion, as it's hard to pin a partner on you when you've been directing lynches too/from multiple people of different alignments.
"His reads are different" is a horrible reason to lynch someone.And I've done a lot of averting lynches because the cases were silly. You even agree that the chairs case waas bad, and sudgy, man, I have no idea why you think he is scum. Just look at this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=449858;topic=12157.400;last_msg=450051). I don't think scum!sudgy makes such posts.
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omgusvote: WW but really we should lynch Joseph today.
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Also, I like that I've been honored to people's "not lynching D1" status.
Also, EgorK is in the game. I didn't like the arguments he made, which makes me see him as a bit scummy, but town can make arguments I don't like too. I'd be okay with lynching him.
Which arguments are you referring to?
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I just got a PS4 for Christmas. Yay, I can't play Destiny because Lizard Squad. I'm furious. Curse them. My PS4 is a glowing brick right now because I cannot connect to the PSN.
Whitherweaver, I stated my reasonings for why Joseph was innocent. I don't think I need to repeat it. Perhaps clarify.
I missed it; I'll reread.
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I like that post by WW and am going to give him town points. Not "100% town" or anything but town points.
It must be Christmas.
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Also, I like that I've been honored to people's "not lynching D1" status.
Also, EgorK is in the game. I didn't like the arguments he made, which makes me see him as a bit scummy, but town can make arguments I don't like too. I'd be okay with lynching him.
Which arguments are you referring to?
Basically all that he's posted:
Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
Vote: seprix
It can be natural mistake or scum hoping someone'll derp. At the very least it is most scummy thing happened so far
That's the only post by Egor so far, I think.
Request prod on EgorK
sudgy and WW are also absent, but at least they've announced VLA.
Not true, but my other posts were about flavor mishup, so not so releveant now
Should've announced about my limited availability this weekend
As of now I content with where my vote is. I understand that that may be newb mistake. It can be faked newb mistake as well, coached in qt. And I do not see anything more convincing. Faust case is plausible, but I am not ready to vote there yet
PPE: 3
I actually start to like Joseph lynch after some thought. I think unexpirienced player is more likely to claim PR as scum. Also his PR likely would not be wasted even if he is town
Vote count please?
It's not so much that I disagree with the "arguments" as the justification doesn't sound genuine. I'm not sure what is going on with the Seprix thing. I don't see how what he's done counts as "newb mistake", let alone "coached newb mistake". I'm not sure what the mistake was.. putting Ash at L-1? I can't imagine a discussion in a scum QT going "Yeah, if a wagon ramps up be sure to jump on at L-1 unannounced."
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Sudgy I still feel good about, and I now think Faust is scummy. Partly because his reads are opposite mine as I'm reading, and more partly because he's done quite a bit of averting lynches (Chairs, Sudgy). A lot of confident "this lynch is bad, this lynch is good," stuff. This is a bit of a combination of white knighting and spreading confusion, as it's hard to pin a partner on you when you've been directing lynches too/from multiple people of different alignments.
"His reads are different" is a horrible reason to lynch someone.And I've done a lot of averting lynches because the cases were silly. You even agree that the chairs case waas bad, and sudgy, man, I have no idea why you think he is scum. Just look at this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=449858;topic=12157.400;last_msg=450051). I don't think scum!sudgy makes such posts.
I don't get the same thing that you do from that Sudgy post. But maybe I haven't seen a lot of scum!Sudgy. I actually don't really agree that the Chairs case was bad, just incorrect. If it wasn't for my thinking that he wouldn't come out with that accusation in the first place as scum, I'd vote for him.
Thinking someone is scum is a fine reason to lynch someone.
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It's not so much that I disagree with the "arguments" as the justification doesn't sound genuine. I'm not sure what is going on with the Seprix thing. I don't see how what he's done counts as "newb mistake", let alone "coached newb mistake". I'm not sure what the mistake was.. putting Ash at L-1? I can't imagine a discussion in a scum QT going "Yeah, if a wagon ramps up be sure to jump on at L-1 unannounced."
But why? This can induce derp and there is always defence "but I did not know this should be announced". In a game I played on other site newb mafia just qh and survived that with this exact argument
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It's not so much that I disagree with the "arguments" as the justification doesn't sound genuine. I'm not sure what is going on with the Seprix thing. I don't see how what he's done counts as "newb mistake", let alone "coached newb mistake". I'm not sure what the mistake was.. putting Ash at L-1? I can't imagine a discussion in a scum QT going "Yeah, if a wagon ramps up be sure to jump on at L-1 unannounced."
But why? This can induce derp and there is always defence "but I did not know this should be announced". In a game I played on other site newb mafia just qh and survived that with this exact argument
I see this as really unlikely without day chat. New scum is very very very rarely that ballsy, and no one will buy it from experienced scum. Planning for possibility of derphammer chance is not something you talk about Night 0 in scum QT.
(Note to self: try this next scum game.)
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I don't like that sudgy wagon at all. What chairs pointed out was really nothing scummy, but somehow it managed to draw a lot of votes.
Agreed. I felt it was slightly scummy, but not "pile on wagon" scummy. unvote.
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It is Thursday. We have until Saturday. We must decide.
Other news: I haven't been able to play my PS4 for 24 hours now, because I have to log in PSN to play anything, except I can't, because DDoS attacks by Script Kiddies. Gosh. If it's going to be like this forever with gaming consoles, I'm just going to go buy the Wii U, because at least they don't have required online service to play ANYTHING.
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It is Thursday. We have until Saturday. We must decide.
I agree, but on the other hand, we don't want to rush the decision, and make the wrong one, after all, most current voters seem to be in favour of killing the only know town member, and hoping that my skills pass to another person, which isn't certain, and I still maintain is a bad move.
On the other hand, it's Christmas Day, so don't expect people to be online.
Sidenote: Online for about an hour, then away for another 24.
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I want to lynch sudgy or faust.
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I want to lynch sudgy or faust.
No.
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I want to lynch sudgy or faust.
No.
I'm not feeling these particularly either?
faust and I have had lots of conversation/argument here, but I feel he wouldn't have been doing it so much if he was scum. Not sure where the sudgy wagon suddenly appeared from, there was one post where he implied he believed me, then someone voted for him, and then everyone did. Severe lack of evidence that he's actually scummy, IMO.
Still think we should lynch a lurker, they get ignored for wagons too easily, and my gut is telling me there's scum there.
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I want to lynch sudgy or faust.
No.
Yes I do. I'm also fine with you or EgorK.
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Hmm, okay. I see where you're coming from. Egor might be an okay lynch, but not nearly as good as Joseph.
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
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Vote: EgorK
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
I'm in this game too!
sorry I've been so quiet though.
I'm still ok with a Joseph lynch today I guess my second biggest lynch would be... Egork.
Also WW how do you never get suspected day 1? Has there ever been a game where day one you were a wagon? I'm impressed on how you seem to keep doing that.
Also I am feeling a nice town read on faust still and think hes my strongest town read right now.
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I still think we should lynch Joseph. If he's scum, we lynch scum. If he's town, we save his shot. Even if you think he's town (I don't) you should see that his lynch is good.
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
I'm in this game too!
sorry I've been so quiet though.
I'm still ok with a Joseph lynch today I guess my second biggest lynch would be... Egork.
Also WW how do you never get suspected day 1? Has there ever been a game where day one you were a wagon? I'm impressed on how you seem to keep doing that.
Also I am feeling a nice town read on faust still and think hes my strongest town read right now.
I actually have no idea, but it's pretty cool. People wanted me dead day 1 of Deathnote Mafia, and I has a pretty big wagon Day 1 of my scum game with Teproc for Monster's U. And Village Mafia, but that was a kind of 50/50 lynch me at best situation. Oh and I got mislybched in a blitz game.
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I'll make my decision tonight, before Saturday. I'll read the arguments, maybe give my own opinion. Either way, we need a lynch, because any lynch is better than no lynch at all, it seems.
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I'll make my decision tonight, before Saturday. I'll read the arguments, maybe give my own opinion. Either way, we need a lynch, because any lynch is better than no lynch at all, it seems.
Maybe give your opinion?
Super scummy.
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I'll make my decision tonight, before Saturday. I'll read the arguments, maybe give my own opinion. Either way, we need a lynch, because any lynch is better than no lynch at all, it seems.
Maybe give your opinion?
Super scummy.
Oh, bother. Yes, I'll give my opinion. Lol, relax. I wouldn't make a serious decision unless I explain it, and I'd want to run something like that by everyone anyways to either sway people or be swayed that it's not the right call. Mafia is a team sport (not really a sport, but whatever).
I'll be lurking. Yes, super scummy. So sue me. Playing dominion cuz I can't sleep, might as well.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
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Eh, I guess sudgy and faust aren't going to happen then. I still think they are the scummiest, but apparently I didn't have enough time to do the re-read that I was planning on.
Vote: EgorK
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I ate too much yesterday.....I can hardly do anything at all...
Vote Count 1.7
silverspawn (1) : ashersky,
Joseph2302 (4) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel
seprix (1) : EgorK
EgorK (3) : Joseph2302, Witherweaver, Awaclus
sudgy (1) : Seprix
Not Voting (2): silverspawn, chairs
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Can anyone give case on me besides lurkness and "I do not like his arguments"?
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Can anyone give case on me besides lurkness and "I do not like his arguments"?
I don't think there is a case besides lurking. Isn't that enough?
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Lurking isn't really enough, because Egor does it as both factions. Though if you're doing a lynch-all-lurkers policy, then I guess it is.
"I don't like his arguments" is basically saying that it doesn't look like his viewpoint is coming from a town perspective---his opinions feel constructed. That's just my read of it; people can agree or not agree.
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Lurking isn't really enough, because Egor does it as both factions. Though if you're doing a lynch-all-lurkers policy, then I guess it is.
I am, and it is.
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Unvote
I'll revote tonight.
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Hey ash, I don't think silverspawn is happening, and you seem to be fine with Joseph. Join us!
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Lurking isn't really enough, because Egor does it as both factions. Though if you're doing a lynch-all-lurkers policy, then I guess it is.
"I don't like his arguments" is basically saying that it doesn't look like his viewpoint is coming from a town perspective---his opinions feel constructed. That's just my read of it; people can agree or not agree.
Every opinion but "gut feeling" is constructed by proccess of rational thinking. The diffirence is either person is believing his own opinion or not.
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Hey ash, I don't think silverspawn is happening, and you seem to be fine with Joseph. Join us!
I support this message.
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Back from V/LA but very tired. Will do full reread tomorrow, free most of tomorrow, and will be around for deadline.
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I will vote to ensure a lynch, but I don't really like the leading wagons. I guess I don't mind them, as far as these things go, but there are better options.
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I'm NOT voting to lynch Joseph. I hate being part of a wagon, but since no one really agrees with me, I might lynch EgorK since he is a lurker anyways.
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Lurking isn't really enough, because Egor does it as both factions. Though if you're doing a lynch-all-lurkers policy, then I guess it is.
"I don't like his arguments" is basically saying that it doesn't look like his viewpoint is coming from a town perspective---his opinions feel constructed. That's just my read of it; people can agree or not agree.
Every opinion but "gut feeling" is constructed by proccess of rational thinking. The diffirence is either person is believing his own opinion or not.
Well, I agree, when I say "constructed" I mean the latter.. the person is presenting an argument, but doesn't actually think it to be true (more specifically, knows it not to be).
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I will vote to ensure a lynch, but I don't really like the leading wagons. I guess I don't mind them, as far as these things go, but there are better options.
What were the better options?
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I will vote to ensure a lynch, but I don't really like the leading wagons. I guess I don't mind them, as far as these things go, but there are better options.
What were the better options?
Silverspawn.
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I will vote to ensure a lynch, but I don't really like the leading wagons. I guess I don't mind them, as far as these things go, but there are better options.
What were the better options?
Silverspawn.
That's only one option!
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I agree with silverspawn being a good option. Also chairs.
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I think Silverspawn is innocent. Chairs is an okay lynch.
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I don't think I'm a very good lynch.
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I haven't seen anything bad about silverspawn.
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Re-read him. All posts are designed to ensure they say zilch about his alignment. It's scumbterfuge.
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Vote: EgorK
I've made my decision. Any lynch is better than no lynch, odds-wise. Lurkers tend to be anti-town, whether he lurks or not. He gives little value to the discussion, and either way will be of minimal loss if he is in fact town. It sucks, but the real criminals of Sudgy and Faust are going free. I'm 100% positive they are both scum.
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Re-read him. All posts are designed to ensure they say zilch about his alignment. It's scumbterfuge.
This is true, but not particularly out of character for Silver. I also don't think he'd want to draw this much attention (re: fake name voting) to himself as scum. Sure scum can do that to make that defense, but it's a gutsy move. It's hard to play in the spotlight as scum.
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I'm warming up to a Seprix lynch now.
Unfortunately that makes me warm down on EgorK.
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14 hours to go. I probably won't be around at deadline, as that's 8 a.m. tomorrow.
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Joseph2302 (4) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel
EgorK (4) : Joseph2302, Witherweaver, Awaclus, Sexprix
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
Here's the latest. EgorK is on Seprix, I'm on Silverspawn. Silverspawn and Chairs are not voting.
We can't count on lurker!chairs to vote at all, and superscumsilverspawn (also known as 4s) is only voting for fake names.
So unless some wagon members switch, we aren't lynching anyone, even if EgorK and I voted for the same person.
Welcome to reason #32354090243232 that both lurking and what 4s is doing is scummy.
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I will only switch if it's needed within, like, the last five minutes before deadline.
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vote: silverspawn
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Vote count please?
I would switch to ensure lynch. I would be more ok with switching to Joseph than chairs
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I'm okay-ish with Egor, but there are so many scummy people on that wagon. Can't we just lynch Joseph? That will give tons of information, and we'll likely have an investigation result by tomorrow.
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Oh, and eh, we're not lynching silver. It would be helpful if ash and chairs could switch to where their vote does something.
Another plus about lynching Joseph: No accidental PR lynch. (Okay, intentional PR lynch, but there are much worse PRs to be lynched)
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Vote: EgorK
I've made my decision. Any lynch is better than no lynch, odds-wise. Lurkers tend to be anti-town, whether he lurks or not. He gives little value to the discussion, and either way will be of minimal loss if he is in fact town. It sucks, but the real criminals of Sudgy and Faust are going free. I'm 100% positive they are both scum.
100% positive? That's pretty certain for your first game ever here, on the first day.
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To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
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To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
Any case or gut feelings?
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To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
Better stay on Joseph for a bit. I haven't given up on getting this lynch yet.
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I'm okay-ish with Egor, but there are so many scummy people on that wagon.
That's actually true. Awaclus, Joseph, and Seprix are all on there.
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I changed my mind. Not lynching EgorK. Let's lynch lurkers in the next game or something.
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I'm okay-ish with Egor, but there are so many scummy people on that wagon.
That's actually true. Awaclus, Joseph, and Seprix are all on there.
Seprix is the only one on that list who is scummy though. And he agrees with me, so he must be town despite being scummy.
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I have exactly one town read on each wagon. Still sitting at 4/4...
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Instead, look at what Seprix is doing.
He is starting by acting like he thinks we're not serious about this game. Okay, this could be genuine. But it could also be coached. Note that he put ashersky on L-1 pretty early
Vote: ashersky
There's gonna' be a lynchin'~ ♫
Here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448888#msg448888) he explains the stuff. I mean, I don't know, but that was 150 posts in. Did he really not notice that we were taking this game seriously until then? I'm not so sure I buy that.
Here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=448900;topic=12157.0;last_msg=450294) he says we should simulate games in order to find out if lynching is worth it, and with that begins a trend to make ridiculous posts that make no sense.
He votes sudgy (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg448962#msg448962) with a weak case, which is whatever. noobies try to contribute, so they search for reasons to vote.
Says he is positive sudgy and faust are both scum based on some post. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=449085;topic=12157.0;last_msg=450294) What's weird about this is his confidence, otherwise it's okay.
Here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449152#msg449152) he jumps on the faust wagon after Awaclus makes... ehh not even really a case. He just says he thinks faust is scummy.
This is a good one. He is positive that faust and sudgy are scum based on the words they have posted. amazing reason.
I do. I have this theory that Sudgy and Faust are both scum based on their words that they've posted. Sudgy voted for Faust then immediately switched his vote mid post to someone else, making me think that Faust and Sudgy are both scum.
And the case is of course insane, he switched mid post, so it was obviously intentional.
Okay, here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449222#msg449222) it starts to really get weird. "Let's do faust this day". That implies that he has already set his mind on whom to lynch. We're 200 posts in and this is his first game, so that's just crazy. Plus, he's tunneling one of the towniest players around.
Well, now he says there isn't much to read yet (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449294#msg449294), and that he's sticking on faust "unless something else happens that's nuts". This is totally inconsistent.
Next we have this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449453#msg449453) about which I already commented that it makes no sense. He's saying we shouldn't lynch based on guesses, but instead lynch whom we all think is scum. But that's guessing too, plus you never all think someone is scum. Also it's incoherent with his tunneling of faust, because few people at that point thought faust was scum.
Makes a post protecting Joseph (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449686#msg449686) with a very flawed argument. Okay, he could just not really know the setup. His reason is whatever. Let's just remember that he protected Joseph.
Faust explains him why his argument made no sense, and he responds by OMGUS voting him, even though he was tunneling him already. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449728#msg449728) I hereby declare faust an IC.
This is golden. He asks doctors to claim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449780#msg449780), which is as anti town as it gets.
Next is this
You can't make an argument for anybody though. There's no reason not to lynch me, you, and your mom. Everyone knows whether they are scum or not, and that's all you know. We can call Joseph on his BS next day if he's BSing. So, to put it simply, Joseph is the only possible lead we have right now. Faust wants Joseph dead, and since I think that keeping Joseph alive for a day is very important to this investigation, I think that Faust is scum for wanting to hinder what we have going here. That's my reasoning.
what?
Next (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449809#msg449809) he says if the setup stuff is really like the dubilidu, then we should lynch Joseph, even though he just stated that he thinks Joseph is innocent three posts prior (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449786#msg449786). Again, inconsistent.
And now... huh? He makes this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=449941;topic=12157.0;last_msg=450294), which is totally reasonable. Out of character for him, but town points for that.
And this:
Egork and Sudgy, you're both acting very scummy. We can't dive into bitter arguments and accusations. Joseph is all but innocent, because he has everything to lose and nothing to gain by claiming PR role so quickly, and I am inclined to believe Silverspawn's analysis, which confirms pro-town stance for him in my eyes too. As for everyone else, ADK, Awaclus, Wither, Hydrad, Chairs, and Ashersky all seem neutral or scummy and towny at the same time.
Faust still seems like a lynch for me, but I'm starting to question my reasoning for the lynch right now, so I'd say he's probably safe right now. Egork has been lurking most of the time, but he usually does that. Sudgy did post the post that made me think he and Faust were scum, and since Sudgy is still thought of as scum for me, I think I'm going to revote for Vote: Sudgy as of now.
At the very least, it's inconsistent to say Joseph is "all but innocent". I'd argue that it's also inconsistent to trust in my reread, although he could just have changed his mind. And look, he says Egork is scummy but then he says egork always lurks in the same post. what?
Joseph is innocent again. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg450046#msg450046)
lol (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg450165#msg450165)
and then this
Vote: EgorK
I've made my decision. Any lynch is better than no lynch, odds-wise. Lurkers tend to be anti-town, whether he lurks or not. He gives little value to the discussion, and either way will be of minimal loss if he is in fact town. It sucks, but the real criminals of Sudgy and Faust are going free. I'm 100% positive they are both scum.
and that's it
The case:
-> he has voted for faust, Egork and sudgy. None of these is scummy.
-> he has changed his opinion about Joseph multiple times
-> he's super inconsistent in just about everything
-> he asked doctors to claim
-> all of his cases are weak
-> he is really, really inconsistent
Forget all of my prior reads. Seprix is scum. Joseph is scum. Awaclus could be scum too. I feel even better about this with how Seprix interacted with Awaclus and Joseph. Egork, sudgy and most importantly faust are town, and I'm inclined to say ashersky is town too, just becaues Seprix put him at L-1.
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Huh. The case against Seprix is better than I thought. Maybe I'm just wrong about faust and sudgy then.
Vote: Seprix
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And yet s4 doesn't vote for him!!!
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And yet s4 doesn't vote for him!!!
unfathomable!!!
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I'm likely not to be around at deadline, I like my vote on Joseph right now.
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I like my vote for now, although every time Seprix posts, I seem to be less sure he's town. Those are the only 2 people I would be okay being lynched.
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I may be on sporadically to change my vote to ensure a lynch, but don't count on it.
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Also, Request: Vote Count.
Rules Question: If we do not reach a majority by deadline, what happens? Is there no lynch, or does the person with the most votes get lynched?
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Woah, woah, woah. I know I'm inconsistent, sorry about that. I was trying to be a hero and make all these hard reads. Sometime between those posts, it crossed my mind to read about Mafia strategies and ways to play. I made some errors. I'll be back soon, got to go to aunt's house.
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Ok, several people still look plenty suspicious. But only one can fit in my de-transmogrifier box...
Vote Count 1.7
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, chairs
Joseph2302 (4) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel
seprix (2) : EgorK, Awaclus
EgorK (3) : Joseph2302, Witherweaver, Seprix
Not Voting (1): silverspawn
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.
The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.
That is in about 5 hours!
Rules Question: If we do not reach a majority by deadline, what happens?
A no lynch will occur and the game will move to the night phase.
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Several people need to start voting somewhere useful.
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Okay, who's around? ashersky is probably gone, left us with a useless vote. chairs? Hydrad? sudgy? Egor? Awaclus? WW? silver?
Please confirm if you're around.
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I'm here.
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I'm here also. I've never had this happen before where we still can't decide on who to lynch.
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I'm here also. I've never had this happen before where we still can't decide on who to lynch.
You're not obviously scummy enough. Try harder.
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I'm here and I like my vote on Seprix.
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Eh, and with "I'm here", I mean, "I was here and now I'm going to leave".
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Turns out I'll (probably) be around until deadline! I would most like to lynch joseph or chairs but would be willing to move somewhere else.
Won't lynch: ash, WW, faust, me. Probably wouldn't lynch sudgy either.
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Eh, and with "I'm here", I mean, "I was here and now I'm going to leave".
I don't like your vote on Serpix. Change it.
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vote: faust as requested
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But seriously, I think there's a high chance we will hit scum with a Seprix lynch, and I'm going to keep voting for him. Will hammer to make a lynch happen if I have to and if I can, but I still want to vote: Seprix.
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Woah, woah, woah. I know I'm inconsistent, sorry about that. I was trying to be a hero and make all these hard reads. Sometime between those posts, it crossed my mind to read about Mafia strategies and ways to play. I made some errors. I'll be back soon, got to go to aunt's house.
This quote made me not really want to lynch Sperix today. It just sounds more like newbie town than newbie scum.
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Woah, woah, woah. I know I'm inconsistent, sorry about that. I was trying to be a hero and make all these hard reads. Sometime between those posts, it crossed my mind to read about Mafia strategies and ways to play. I made some errors. I'll be back soon, got to go to aunt's house.
This quote made me not really want to lynch Sperix today. It just sounds more like newbie town than newbie scum.
Vote Joseph! Your only argument against it is "give the newb a chance" IIRC.
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I won't be around that much longer. I'm currently on the biggest wagon which is also my top scumread on see no reason to change my vote. You may try to convince me otherwise or join me.
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Woah, woah, woah. I know I'm inconsistent, sorry about that. I was trying to be a hero and make all these hard reads. Sometime between those posts, it crossed my mind to read about Mafia strategies and ways to play. I made some errors. I'll be back soon, got to go to aunt's house.
This quote made me not really want to lynch Sperix today. It just sounds more like newbie town than newbie scum.
Vote Joseph! Your only argument against it is "give the newb a chance" IIRC.
No, my argument against Joseph was that I don't think he's scum.
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I also found him pretty scummy (and not really any different here) in his first game (I believe it was Dresden Files). He turned out town there.
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I would vote him over no lynch, but I feel Egor more.
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I also found him pretty scummy (and not really any different here) in his first game (I believe it was Dresden Files). He turned out town there.
See, that's where we disagree.
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I also found him pretty scummy (and not really any different here) in his first game (I believe it was Dresden Files). He turned out town there.
Also, I can apply this to basically any game where Egor was town as well.
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I'll be on and off until deadline (youngest is still up despite it being way past his bedtime)
I like seprix or Awaclus lynch most atm, but Awaclus one is too late to go through obviously. If seprix lynch won't shape I'd switch to faust for lynch going through/self preservation
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I also found him pretty scummy (and not really any different here) in his first game (I believe it was Dresden Files). He turned out town there.
Also, I can apply this to basically any game where Egor was town as well.
But Joseph has posted a lot more in both games than Egor does in any of his games, so there's much more exposure to get a feeling on Joseph.
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I'll be on and off until deadline (youngest is still up despite it being way past his bedtime)
I like seprix or Awaclus lynch most atm, but Awaclus one is too late to go through obviously. If seprix lynch won't shape I'd switch to faust for lynch going through/self preservation
I'm guessing Faust means Joseph? This is the second time....
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I'll be on and off until deadline (youngest is still up despite it being way past his bedtime)
I like seprix or Awaclus lynch most atm, but Awaclus one is too late to go through obviously. If seprix lynch won't shape I'd switch to faust for lynch going through/self preservation
I'm guessing Faust means Joseph? This is the second time....
Yes. Those avatars
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I'd vote for awaclus. I can't remember much of what he's posted in this game, which probably means he's scum.
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Can we please lynch Joseph now? No other wagon is going to from out of the blue: too few people are online for that to happen.
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Deadline is in about 2 hours, right?
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I'd vote for awaclus. I can't remember much of what he's posted in this game, which probably means he's scum.
I doubt Awaclus would go through, and I don't have much of an inclination to vote for him. I think you're still on Joseph. Are you okay with Egor too?
Faust: Egor is at L-4, Joseph is at L-3. Joseph, currently on Egor, obviously won't move to himself. Seprix indicated he may be back. I can do Joseph, and Egor will to prevent his lynch. You would still need one more.
Awaclus: Seprix not going through today; are you still around?
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I agree with WW, the only options now are myself or EgorK. I'm considering the possibility of self-voting, if it helps cause a lynch, but I still think it's bad, even though lynch > no lynch. After all, if I suicide, it might be in vein, if the UB is Nked.
Also, lurking is scummy, so lynching a lurker isn't bad. If we lynch EgorK and he's town, we haven't lost a massive source of information/help for the rest of the game.
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Leaving for about 1 hour. should be back before deadline. If something happens and Joseph gets to live I should be around to get a lynch through. But I still like Joseph the most right now.
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Deadline is in about 2 hours, right?
yes, 1hr 48 minutes from this post (6:30 pm forum time/2330 UTC)
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Well I like voting Joseph even better after he offered to self-vote. I prefer him to Egor I think.
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Fine. I hate how Faust always gets his way~
Unless he's right; then I'm perfectly fine with it.
Vote: Joseph
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If it's any consolation, it's starting to look more and more like we're going to no-lynch, which is really unfortunate.
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Fine. there are no other options
Vote: Joseph
If I can count (I am not sure) this is L-1
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It doesn't make me feel better; that's much worse. We still have 90 minutes though.
Chairs, Awaclus, Seprix we need one of you.
Or Ashersky if you wake up (WAKEY WAKEY IT'S HAMMATIME)
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Inclined to hammer
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I would say go for it.
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I'm still 50/50 about whether this lynch is good or not. There's probably not a mason (else they probably would have claimed), so have to help the UB is not Nked or roleblocked (if a RB exists, which is likely). Otherwise, it's going to super-suck for us.
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vote: Joseph2302
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THREAD LOCKED
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Flavor may or may not be added in later
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Joseph2302 (7) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, EgorK, silverspawn
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, chairs
EgorK (2) : Joseph2302, Seprix
seprix (1) : Awaclus
With 12 alive it took 7 to lynch.
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Flavor may or may not be inserted here
Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was Scrooge, the Mafia Godfather
Night 1 will last 48 hours, but night action deadline is in 24 hours, through PM to 2.7/me, or QT.
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flavor flavor flavor
Faust died during the night! He was The Thanksgiving Indians, a Vanilla Townie.
I sincerely apologize for the late start. My girlfriend just got in town to visit me and I neglected the game. That being said. Votecounts from me will be once a day, but Teproc may do them more frequently.
The Second Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (10): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, EgorK, chairs, Seprix, Ashersky
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 2 will be Friday, January 9 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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I guess I have to hand over to Faust my "best townie" award.
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Vote: EgorK
I've made my decision. Any lynch is better than no lynch, odds-wise. Lurkers tend to be anti-town, whether he lurks or not. He gives little value to the discussion, and either way will be of minimal loss if he is in fact town. It sucks, but the real criminals of Sudgy and Faust are going free. I'm 100% positive they are both scum.
Vote: Seprix
This looked bad yesterday, moreso now given Joseph's alignment. It was 4-3 Joseph to Egor at this point I think.
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vote: Seprix indeed
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self explanatory player list:
1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302
3. faust
4. Awaclus
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy
7. Witherweaver
9. EgorK
10. chairs
11. Seprix
12. Ashersky
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Wait why Ash?
Egor I'm not 100% on.. they were at the point where they had to bus each other.
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because Seprix put ash at L-1 early
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I guess ash could have mentored him to do that, but I kind of doubt it. seems unlike ash to do such conventionally unconventional tricks.
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Lynch chairs, lynch silverspawn, gg
vote: chairs
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because Seprix put ash at L-1 early
Too much contingency there. We have to see Seprix's flip before making deductions.
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I mean, if your town reads rely on your scum reads actually being scum, why bother with town reads? Everyone else has to be town.
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I mean, if your town reads rely on your scum reads actually being scum, why bother with town reads? Everyone else has to be town.
heh, that's actually true. Well, almost. there are 3 scum I think, so I don't already know everything.
it doesn't matter anyway, seprix is scum, we need to lynch him.
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I mean, if your town reads rely on your scum reads actually being scum, why bother with town reads? Everyone else has to be town.
heh, that's actually true. Well, almost. there are 3 scum I think, so I don't already know everything.
it doesn't matter anyway, seprix is scum, we need to lynch him.
Reading setups is a scum tell, after all.
But yeah, Seprix is super scummy. vote: Seprix
Also,
I'm pretty certain there's a scum lurking, more sure than I am on either chairs (who seems like an easy mislynch, as in M53) or faust (who I still think is scum, but less sure).
In other words, there is no scum lurking.
so pretty much anyone who lurked D1 is probably town.
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Reading setups is a scum tell, after all.
not sure what you're saying. there are 3 scum.
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Reading setups is a scum tell, after all.
not sure what you're saying. there are 3 scum.
I thought you weren't sure if there are 3 scum.
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I mean, if your town reads rely on your scum reads actually being scum, why bother with town reads? Everyone else has to be town.
heh, that's actually true. Well, almost. there are 3 scum I think, so I don't already know everything.
it doesn't matter anyway, seprix is scum, we need to lynch him.
I'm saying you had three scum reads on your list. There are three scum in the game. If you're basing your town reads off of the veracity of your scum assumptions, then everyone other than Seprix and Awaclus is town, not just Ashersky.
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Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
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I mean, if your town reads rely on your scum reads actually being scum, why bother with town reads? Everyone else has to be town.
heh, that's actually true. Well, almost. there are 3 scum I think, so I don't already know everything.
it doesn't matter anyway, seprix is scum, we need to lynch him.
I'm saying you had three scum reads on your list. There are three scum in the game. If you're basing your town reads off of the veracity of your scum assumptions, then everyone other than Seprix and Awaclus is town, not just Ashersky.
My ash town read is solely based on my scum read on seprix though, not on seprix and awaclus.
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Reading setups is a scum tell, after all.
not sure what you're saying. there are 3 scum.
I thought you weren't sure if there are 3 scum.
I wasn't 100% sure, but I know how the PR distribution in the setup works and that there are 12 players or something, so I was like 98% sure, because that's the only number that makes sense
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Vote Count 2.1
Seprix (4) : Witherweaver, silverspawn, Awaclus, sudgy
chairs (1) : A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (5) : Hydrad, EgorK, chairs, Seprix, Ashersky
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 2 will be Friday, January 9 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Really? That hammer looks like a scum partner desperate be on the wagon in order to save face.
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Vote: adk
Chairs is definitely town.
vote: seprix
L-1 people.
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Well, I believe that. Unvote
I'm okay with the Seprix lynch, so if he wants to claim he should do it now.
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TO THE QUICKHAMMERMOBILE?
Nah, I'll wait for the claim. I would like to claim the pleasure of hammering though pls gooby I haven't hammered anybody in literally games.
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I am a little drunk now, but please do not rush. I have a feeling here that how Awaclus voted on every wagon oportunity but on Joseph wagon may be exonerating for Serpix
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I am a little drunk now, but please do not rush. I have a feeling here that how Awaclus voted on every wagon oportunity but on Joseph wagon may be exonerating for Serpix
That's because I didn't like the Joseph lynch.
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Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Really? That hammer looks like a scum partner desperate be on the wagon in order to save face.
Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Really? That hammer looks like a scum partner desperate be on the wagon in order to save face.
Oh please. Really? Desperate? Did that look like desperate to you?
To me it looked more like "oh sweet I can hammer, with my first vote in the game, on the guy about which I said he was scum three posts prior"
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what do you think ash? am I still scum?
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I think you're awfully defensive for someone without any votes on him.
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I'm shocked Joseph was actually scum. I believed he was innocent. I thought Silverspawn read him perfectly. Oh, well. And Faust wasn't scum either. I'm 100% wrong. I admit it. I'm new at this. I'll get better. I'm willing to learn.
And I'm not going to just claim because you're all threatening to lynch me. If you're going to lynch me here, go ahead and do it. It'll be your first mistake.
How many days do we have until lynch time? I need to re-read posts and make a more informed decision this time.
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Yeah, I don't feel good about that. And I've always wanted a super fast lynch. Kablam!
vote: Seprix
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I think you're awfully defensive for someone without any votes on him.
You have to remember that Silverspawn did write this huge thing about why Joseph was innocent, when everyone else wanted him dead. I know I wanted him innocent as well, but that was partially from Silverspawn's post.
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So we have a lynch before I even got to post?
I guess theres no going back now but quick hammers like this always worry me. Seprix as I think your lynced unless I counted wrong if you have any info with a PR you might want to let us now.
Also ADK you stole chairs hammer.
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I think he wouldn't mention his partner in a twilight post, right? That means we're not lynching silverspawn D3.
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THREAD LOCKED
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
Seprix (6) : Witherweaver, silverspawn, Awaclus, sudgy, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4) : Hydrad, EgorK, chairs, Seprix
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
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Flavor may or may not be inserted here
Seprix has been lynched. He was a New Year's Resolutioner, the Town 1-Shot Doctor !
Night 2 will last 48 hours, but night action deadline is in 24 hours, through PM to 2.7/me, or QT.
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flavor flavor flavor. Where did that host go? I mean, really, he said he would host this meeting and he is barely here...Good thing Teproc is around. He keeps the party moving.
EgorK died during the night! He was The Great Pumpkin, a Vanilla Townie.
The Third Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting [8]: A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, chairs, Ashersky
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 3 will be Friday, January 11 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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I like vote: silverspawn right now.
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that was an awful hammer. don't get me wrong, I thought he was scum, and we most likely would have lynched him anyway, but still. you a) didn't wait until each person in the game even had a chance to post (ash and Hydrad), and b) you didn't push him to claim at all. Yes he refused to claim, but it is absolutely possible that he would have claimed if we had just pressured him more.
you don't just hammer people. that's anti town. You ask first, and leave people time for final thoughts.
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it's made even worse by how little we now have to go on. we're basically back to after day1 with 2 town and 1 scum dead. still pretty good, but not as good as it could have been.
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ash had posted, he was voting for Seprix.
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right. he posted. once. doesn't really change anything though.
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Yeah, what was the point with going super fast on that?
I doubt more that ADK is scum here, or else he's going for a super bold ubergame.
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I almost think we should lynch ADK anyway for being so anti-town and to prevent it from happening in future games.
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I thought there was a good chance he was scum and thought it would be interesting.
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I thought there was a good chance he was scum and thought it would be interesting.
I thought there was a good chance too, but it's almost never good to lynch that quick early in the game.
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I don't think scum!ADK pops the hammer here.
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posting before a hammer goes off.
I don't even know how much info we can get off of the seprix lynch as it happened so fast.
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A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, chairs, Ashersky
vote: awaclus
He's the only person remaining alive that was off-wagon on D1 that can be scum. Even assuming one scum bussed, it's hard to imagine both did.
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I'm willing to vote for who ash says.
vote: awaclus
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Vote: awaclus
sounds good to me
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Vote: awaclus
sounds good to me
Doesn't sound good to me!
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My meta this game: Follow the ashersky?
SURE LET'S DO IT.
vote: awaclus
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vote: guys this is L-1 don't you think this is going a little bit fast?
I'm not sure if me finding Awaclus scummy was based on my Seprix read. I'll reread that.
don't hammer.
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I agree lets wait a moment before we lynch people today.
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He's the only person remaining alive that was off-wagon on D1 that can be scum.
That isn't true, you and chairs were both off-wagon. I can see why you would "know" that you can't be scum, but why can't chairs be scum?
vote: ashersky
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He's the only person remaining alive that was off-wagon on D1 that can be scum.
That isn't true, you and chairs were both off-wagon. I can see why you would "know" that you can't be scum, but why can't chairs be scum?
vote: ashersky
Because I copped him and the godfather is dead.
Sorry dude.
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is that a full claim? why?
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also, since you already claimed cop, want to share your other target? we had 2 nights. unless you want to keep it a secret for more information.
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Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
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Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
You are my choice for his partner, at this point.
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is that a full claim? why?
It's a partial claim, as your next post pointed out.
Why? Because it was time.
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Saw that coming, he crumbed that pretty unsubtly yesterday. That said, you don't think Silverspawn is a more likely scum candidate?
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Saw that coming, he crumbed that pretty unsubtly yesterday. That said, you don't think Silverspawn is a more likely scum candidate?
More likely? No.
Bold scum hammers on D1, and silver would be bold...but I don't see it. He's not 100% cleared, but he's getting a pass.
Townies: you have great POE--you can subtract yourself plus me and chairs to form your lynch pool.
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Hey guys, I was just checking the temperature outside and.....WHAT IS THIS MESS?!?!?!?!
Well, we wanted to experiment with the de-transmogrifier box to see how it worked with rapid fire orders. So we quickly threw The North Pole Elves and The New Year's Resolutioner into the box. As you can see....limited success. We found the Scrooge disguised as the North Pole Elves, but.....
I should say! You didn't read the owner's manual! Too many de-transmogrify attempts in too short period of time and the box will leak out and affect people around. Now, I am grateful that Scrooge was found, but the leakage has turned The Thanksgiving Indians and The Great Pumpkin into blobs candy cane and cookie! Hope you guys didn't cause permanent damage to the machine and it works properly again. Speaking of that, we still need to find two more troublemakers before we can finalize the details for the party. At least with fewer people to discuss the details we won't argue as long about what to do at the party.....
Should be back to normal availability now. Thanks for all your patience.
Vote Count 3.1
Awaclus (4): Ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, chairs (L-1)
Ashersky (1): Awaclus (L-4)
Not Voting (3): silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 3 will be Friday, January 11 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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I feel that WW and Silverspawn are much more likely to be scum than sudgy, given that sudgy was on the joseph lynch early, pushed it even after the claim, and stayed on it even when he had opportunity to lynch. WW and SS are the ones who switched at the last second.
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I feel that WW and Silverspawn are much more likely to be scum than sudgy, given that sudgy was on the joseph lynch early, pushed it even after the claim, and stayed on it even when he had opportunity to lynch. WW and SS are the ones who switched at the last second.
I was only on the joseph lynch after the claim. I had a townread on him before that.
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Which is pretty much the opposite of what I'd expect from his partner, so there you go.
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ADK, stop tunneling me. Just stop.
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Who do you think is scum, then?
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I feel that WW and Silverspawn are much more likely to be scum than sudgy, given that sudgy was on the joseph lynch early, pushed it even after the claim, and stayed on it even when he had opportunity to lynch. WW and SS are the ones who switched at the last second.
This is fair I guess. Honestly I didn't think he would end up flipping scum. I wouldn't have gone for him, but it looked like him or no lynch.
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Either way this game is looking good so far. What are the chances that scum has after a day 1 lynch usually?
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Either way this game is looking good so far. What are the chances that scum has after a day 1 lynch usually?
Statistically not good, but it's not like it's game over. We hit scum Day 1 in Dice Mafia, and that was narrowly won.
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I think SS is scummier then WW right now. Actually I like WWs last post. It sounds townie. I'm still ok with awa today though.
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I think SS is scummier then WW right now. Actually I like WWs last post. It sounds townie. I'm still ok with awa today though.
Ah ppe I meant WWs post here.
I feel that WW and Silverspawn are much more likely to be scum than sudgy, given that sudgy was on the joseph lynch early, pushed it even after the claim, and stayed on it even when he had opportunity to lynch. WW and SS are the ones who switched at the last second.
This is fair I guess. Honestly I didn't think he would end up flipping scum. I wouldn't have gone for him, but it looked like him or no lynch.
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I'm not ok with awa today. And I don't think I want to lynch WW either. I'd be fine with silverspawn or ADK.
Actually, I'm going to unvote. Ashersky's claim seems believable, so I don't want to lynch him or chairs today. It's surprising that there were two scum on the Joseph lynch, but that pretty much has to be the case.
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Who do you think is scum, then?
Awaclus.
I freed myself of offsite responsibilities, so I'll have more time to put into this game. tomorrow.
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Vote Count 3.2
Awaclus (4): Ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, chairs (L-1)
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Awaclus
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 3 will be Friday, January 11 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
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I'm more or less for Awaclus, but I don't really want another abbreviated day.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
OMGUSing, then being like "oh crap, I OMGUSed" and unvoting.
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I'm more or less for Awaclus, but I don't really want another abbreviated day.
I kind of like it.
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So we just turning into a blitz game then?
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
OMGUSing, then being like "oh crap, I OMGUSed" and unvoting.
You're forgetting that there was a claim there and it changed things. In retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious that he had a PR which is why he knew that chairs wasn't scum, but at the time, it just felt pretty weird that he would initiate the wagon on me when his evidence for my scumminess was, from my perspective, completely wrong. This is why I originally voted for ashersky. Then he claimed, and suddenly his evidence was apparently correct, so even though the conclusion everyone is drawing from it is still wrong, it makes sense so I don't think it's scummy.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
OMGUSing, then being like "oh crap, I OMGUSed" and unvoting.
You're forgetting that there was a claim there and it changed things. In retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious that he had a PR which is why he knew that chairs wasn't scum, but at the time, it just felt pretty weird that he would initiate the wagon on me when his evidence for my scumminess was, from my perspective, completely wrong. This is why I originally voted for ashersky. Then he claimed, and suddenly his evidence was apparently correct, so even though the conclusion everyone is drawing from it is still wrong, it makes sense so I don't think it's scummy.
This is all not so convincing.
Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
OMGUSing, then being like "oh crap, I OMGUSed" and unvoting.
You're forgetting that there was a claim there and it changed things. In retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious that he had a PR which is why he knew that chairs wasn't scum, but at the time, it just felt pretty weird that he would initiate the wagon on me when his evidence for my scumminess was, from my perspective, completely wrong. This is why I originally voted for ashersky. Then he claimed, and suddenly his evidence was apparently correct, so even though the conclusion everyone is drawing from it is still wrong, it makes sense so I don't think it's scummy.
This is all not so convincing.
Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
I think he's making the former argument, not the latter.
Anyway, here's the rub:
1) ashersky is telling the truth AND Awaclus is mafia.
2) ashersky is telling the truth AND Awaclus is town.
3) ashersky is lying AND Awaclus is mafia.
4) ashersky is lying AND Awaclus is town.
These are the only four options possible. Here's the thing -- the portion before the AND and the portion after are not directly related. (Note: #3 is ridiculous.)
So, all this is pretty clear to everyone. I think the only thing that matters is Awaclus's reaction, actually.
What's town!Awaclus think when I come out with my original vote (pre-claim)? What does scum!Awaclus think? What's his reaction as either alignment post-claim? The answers to those questions will help you decide if you think Awaclus is scum.
Remember, my actual "case" on him is that he's the only non-confirmed town player that did not lynch scum on D1. It's not a slam dunk case, by any means. I would argue that Awaclus NOT fighting the case is evidence that he actually is scum. He's not arguing that scum bussed. He had one post stating that either chairs or me could be scum. I would have done more as town.
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(3) isn't that ridiculous. I mean, you've basically done it before. And you would have the "why would I be that crazy to try it again" argument.
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But anyway, I agree that town!Awaclus would have been doing more.. that was kind of my point above.
Though, it not being a slam dunk case makes me doubt it slightly more. As far as fake claims go, it's rather convenient, because if he does turn out town, you're not really culpable. You still have to argue for two mislynches on wagon, though (or one if you bus).
I don't really find you scummy this game, though, so I'm not inclined to think that.
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Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
I think either ADK or silverspawn is likely one of them (which is what I said earlier), but it's unlikely that they're both scum. The other one has to be you or Hydrad, but I don't really find either of you very scummy.
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Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
I think either ADK or silverspawn is likely one of them (which is what I said earlier), but it's unlikely that they're both scum. The other one has to be you or Hydrad, but I don't really find either of you very scummy.
"Anyone but me could be scum, but I'm not going to commit to any strong reads." Yeah, I like this lynch.
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Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
I think either ADK or silverspawn is likely one of them (which is what I said earlier), but it's unlikely that they're both scum. The other one has to be you or Hydrad, but I don't really find either of you very scummy.
"Anyone but me could be scum, but I'm not going to commit to any strong reads." Yeah, I like this lynch.
Which part do you disagree with?
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Well, I obviously disagree with the part where you call me scum. But mostly I'm pointing out that it's a very hedgey post.
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Well, I obviously disagree with the part where you call me scum. But mostly I'm pointing out that it's a very hedgey post.
How can it be a hedgey post if it's true?
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Those two things aren't contradictory; I'm saying that you don't seem to have very strong reads considering how much POE you have available. Out of the five available people you're considering, you're listing four of them, in a fashion that doesn't strongly commit to one over the other. It seems (to me, at least) that you're setting yourself up to vote for whichever of those people starts getting votes later in the day, which is scummy.
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Those two things aren't contradictory; I'm saying that you don't seem to have very strong reads considering how much POE you have available. Out of the five available people you're considering, you're listing four of them, in a fashion that doesn't strongly commit to one over the other. It seems (to me, at least) that you're setting yourself up to vote for whichever of those people starts getting votes later in the day, which is scummy.
I don't want to lynch Hydrad or WW yet. I want to lynch either you or silverspawn. Like I said earlier.
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Vote Count 3.3
Awaclus (4): Ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, chairs (L-1)
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Awaclus
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 3 will be Friday, January 11 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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So I reread Awaclus, halfway through Day 1 I was ready to come back and hammer him (it was mostly full of fluff and setup stuff), but his actions at the end of Day 1 didn't seem all that scummy. He got on Joseph's wagon at around spot 3, unvoted after Joseph claimed, and pretty much refused to go for Joseph again. Generally, partners are a little bit more hedgey.. they want the option to jump on the wagon for the town cred. On the other hand, Awaclus could be going for a more blatant scum strategy: don't lynch your partner no matter what.
He was away for deadline, which can happen, but there is also scum motivation to do so (it's hard to be around and make arguments for mislynches; it can end up blowing up in your face).
I know there is Ash's case, too. Can other people reread and share thoughts?
For reference, Awaclus' voting history:
Day 1:
Hydrad (RVS)
Seprix
Faust
Joseph
(Unvote)
Faust
Sudgy
EgorK
Seprix
Faust (joke vote)
Seprix
Day 2:
Seprix
Day 3:
Ashersky
(Unvote)
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On the other hand (well, the same other hand as before), Awaclus' vote for Egor comes at Joseph at 4 votes and Egor at 2 votes. Everyone else had at most 1 vote. Could be trying to start up an alternative wagon to his partner.
In that line of thinking, Silver posts up a pretty long case against Seprix (here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg450298#msg450298)) when it's 4-4 Joseph-Egor. Awaclus immediately follows.
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Sounds like good points against Awaclus to me.
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Hello?
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Oh whoops. I kinda forgot about this game. sorry.
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Hello!
Is it me you're looking for?
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I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday. When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.
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I'm voting for who I want to vote for.
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I re-read and now I like silverspawn clearly more than ADK, which means ADK is probably town. vote: silverspawn
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Eh,
Vote: Awaclus
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That was the hammer, correct?
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hurrah. awa are you scum?
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It was.
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hurrah. awa are you scum?
Are you?
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Gah, I wanted to reread and stuff... I know I should have done that already, but I was being lazy. Mh. Dunno if I'm in the best position to complain, but what's with these quickhammers? we're not playing blitz.
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Gah, I wanted to reread and stuff... I know I should have done that already, but I was being lazy. Mh.
Yes, you should have. You could have prevented this!
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Gah, I wanted to reread and stuff... I know I should have done that already, but I was being lazy. Mh.
Yes, you should have. You could have prevented this!
So, are you saying you're town?
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Gah, I wanted to reread and stuff... I know I should have done that already, but I was being lazy. Mh.
Yes, you should have. You could have prevented this!
So, are you saying you're town?
Not really.
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well then it all woked out, so I don't see the problem.
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*worked
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well then it all woked out, so I don't see the problem.
No it didn't.
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It did though. Who's your third partner?
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It did though. Who's your third partner?
I only have two partners.
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So it's silverspawn, then?
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It did though. Who's your third partner?
I only have two partners.
*member
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So it's silverspawn, then?
No.
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THREAD LOCKED
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (5): Ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, chairs, Witherweaver
Not Voting (3): silverspawn, sudgy, Awaclus
With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.
flavor flavor flavor
Awaclus has been lynched. He was The Abominable Snowman, The Mafia Roleblocker !
Night 3 will last 48 hours. The deadline for night actions will be Wednesday, January 7 at 8:00 pm forum time.
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flavor flavor flavor. Might add it later. But I am supposed to be working right now.
chairs died during the night! He was Santa Claus, a Vanilla Townie.
The Fourth Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (6): A Drowned Kernel, silverspawn, sudgy, Witherweaver, Hydrad, Ashersky
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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I am almost certain ash is town. There's a small chance he's scum pulling something crazy, but I don't see why he would do that (even ash).
That said, I haven't had much of a read on the other players...
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Thoughts on massclaim?
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Thoughts on massclaim?
I'm for it. It seems like the logical thing to do at this point.
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Thoughts on massclaim?
I'm for it. It seems like the logical thing to do at this point.
Correct. I'll direct.
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Sudgy
Ww
AdK
Hydrad
SS
Me
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its a claiming time!
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Well being on the wagon of two scum so far I feel I should be confidently town, but I'm not so concerned about it. I'm fine claiming whenever.
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Well being on the wagon of two scum so far I feel I should be confidently town, but I'm not so concerned about it. I'm fine claiming whenever.
Your too scary when your scum so your automatically more scummy then others.
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Uh-huh.
Actually I didn't check.. only one alive off-wagon for Joseph is Ashersky, right? And Sudgy and Silver were off-wagon for Awaclus.
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Uh-huh.
Actually I didn't check.. only one alive off-wagon for Joseph is Ashersky, right? And Sudgy and Silver were off-wagon for Awaclus.
Right.
Hence sudgy first. I'm giving silver some leeway because I still think (on yet another re-read) that his Joseph hammer was not a scum move.
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So scum bussed at least one of their partners then.
Interestingtm
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Waiting for Sudgy then.
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I'm okay with this.
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Wait, awaclus was the RB. That means ash should have another result for sure. I think that should come before claiming.
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Wait, awaclus was the RB. That means ash should have another result for sure. I think that should come before claiming.
what if asher is a 1-shot cop? Am i missing something?
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Wait, awaclus was the RB. That means ash should have another result for sure. I think that should come before claiming.
Why should my results come before claiming?
Assume I don't have a scum result (since why would I hold that back?). Why let the remaining scum know which player(s) he can't attempt to mislynch ahead of time?
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I am a Vanilla Townie.
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one down. 5 to go.
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Sudgy - Vanilla Townie
WW
ADK
Hydrad
SS
Me
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Wait, awaclus was the RB. That means ash should have another result for sure. I think that should come before claiming.
Why should my results come before claiming?
Assume I don't have a scum result (since why would I hold that back?). Why let the remaining scum know which player(s) he can't attempt to mislynch ahead of time?
I'm still holding open the possibility that you're scum. Certain claims can make someone an IC here, and you would want to claim to have investigate one of those roles, so you would want to wait until after the claiming to give your result.
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Wait, awaclus was the RB. That means ash should have another result for sure. I think that should come before claiming.
what if asher is a 1-shot cop? Am i missing something?
I did forget the possibility that he's one-shot.
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1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302 - Mafia Godfather
3. faust- Vanilla Townie
4. Awaclus - Mafia Roleblocker
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy - Vanilla Townie
7. Witherweaver
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK - Vanilla Townie
10. chairs - Vanilla Townie
11. Seprix - 1-Shot Doctor
12. Ashersky
For completion's sake.
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I am Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and am a Doctor. I protected Faust Night 1 and ADK Nights 2 and 3.
I was either Roleblocked Night 1 or Faust was Strongman killed. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
I also dropped a flavor hint in my first post (I said something about guiding us all). Not that that really means anything, but I felt like doing it.
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1. A Drowned Kernel
2. Joseph2302 - Mafia Godfather
3. faust- Vanilla Townie
4. Awaclus - Mafia Roleblocker
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy - Vanilla Townie
7. Witherweaver - Doctor
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK - Vanilla Townie
10. chairs - Vanilla Townie
11. Seprix - 1-Shot Doctor
12. Ashersky
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I am the Universal Backup, and am now the 1-shot doctor. I'll let it remain a mystery whether I still have my shot.
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1. A Drowned Kernel - Universal Backup (inherited 1-Shot Doctor)
2. Joseph2302 - Mafia Godfather
3. faust- Vanilla Townie
4. Awaclus - Mafia Roleblocker
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy - Vanilla Townie
7. Witherweaver - Doctor
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK - Vanilla Townie
10. chairs - Vanilla Townie
11. Seprix - 1-Shot Doctor
12. Ashersky
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1. A Drowned Kernel - Universal Backup (inherited 1-Shot Doctor)
2. Joseph2302 - Mafia Godfather
3. faust- Vanilla Townie
4. Awaclus - Mafia Roleblocker
5. silverspawn
6. sudgy - Vanilla Townie
7. Witherweaver - Doctor
8. Hydrad
9. EgorK - Vanilla Townie
10. chairs - Vanilla Townie
11. Seprix - 1-Shot Doctor
12. Ashersky
Strikethrough the dead for ease of reading.
-
Hydrad is next.
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I'm a VT!
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I'm also a VT
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Not surprised by the last two.
ADK is an IC. Everyone else that is town, you are seeking one from {silver, hydrad, sudgy, witherweaver} minus yourself.
That's 1/3.
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I am Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and am a Doctor. I protected Faust Night 1 and ADK Nights 2 and 3.
I was either Roleblocked Night 1 or Faust was Strongman killed. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
I also dropped a flavor hint in my first post (I said something about guiding us all). Not that that really means anything, but I felt like doing it.
Why ADK?
-
I am Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and am a Doctor. I protected Faust Night 1 and ADK Nights 2 and 3.
I was either Roleblocked Night 1 or Faust was Strongman killed. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
I also dropped a flavor hint in my first post (I said something about guiding us all). Not that that really means anything, but I felt like doing it.
Why ADK?
And why not me OR chairs last night?
-
I am Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and am a Doctor. I protected Faust Night 1 and ADK Nights 2 and 3.
I was either Roleblocked Night 1 or Faust was Strongman killed. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
I also dropped a flavor hint in my first post (I said something about guiding us all). Not that that really means anything, but I felt like doing it.
Why ADK?
And why not me OR chairs last night?
Why Chairs? Did I miss something there?
I protected ADK Night 2 because I had the strongest town read on him.. On Night 3 I was convinced. My choice was ADK or you. I still worry about you doing crazy gambits. (I know that's probably annoying if you're town, sorry~.) I also thought, then, that scum may keep you alive because you're a mislynch target. And if you did get shot, it would clear someone out of the lynch pool (at least for me), so it didn't seem like the worst thing ever.
On the other hand, me protecting you and there being no kill would have almost confirmed you as town, so I began to think that would have been a better choice, but that line of thinking came after I had already submitted my target.
-
Also, are you going to full claim?
-
So in terms of setup..
I started typing it all out but seems like a lot of contingencies depending on if Ash is 1-shot or not. If Ash is not 1-shot, I think it implies Scum has a full Strongman. If he is 1-shot, it's possible their Strongman may only be 1-shot as well, though not necessarily.
In terms of verifying.. well.. my Protection didn't work Night 1, Strongman is more likely than me being Roleblocked. If our powers are only Doctor and 1-shot Doctor, then it was DD or any number of E's, apparently. Meaning they have at least a 1-shot Strongman. So, no information there, really.
I guess I was hoping this would reveal more.
By default I'd want to lynch between the people that were not on both wagons, which is: Sudgy, Silverspawn, Ash. Sudgy and Silver far above Ash, I think.. I don't have a really great reason to doubt Ash's claim other than it's a possibility.
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I guess I was hoping this would reveal more.
Doesn't this happen every asher++ game?
By default I'd want to lynch between the people that were not on both wagons, which is: Sudgy, Silverspawn, Ash. Sudgy and Silver far above Ash, I think.. I don't have a really great reason to doubt Ash's claim other than it's a possibility.
In my defense, I said I would hammer Awaclus but didn't want the day to end so soon, and I was the main driver of the Joseph lynch.
And that does leave silverspawn for me. I guess I'll Vote: silverspawn.
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Chairs because he was confirmed town, 100%, no matter what.
After Awaclus was lynched and flipped the second scum, we all knew only one remained. I cleared chairs via investigation. Whether I'm really a cop or lying scum, chairs couldn't be scum.
He was 100% town to everyone, but you decided not to protect him.
Explain.
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ash says ADK is an IC. If ash is town, ADK must be town. If ash is scum, ADK is also town. That makes him a true IC.
but why are we treating ash as a semi IC? ADK, any opinion here?
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As for me -- I made the Awaclus lynch happen. I claimed a result, POE'd him, started the wagon, and pushed it through.
Why would I avoid my partner's wagon on D1 only to ensure my second partner's lynch on D3? I know I'm known for gambits and all, but there was no reason for that.
I'm 1-shot. There are a number of viable combos, including both full and 1-shot strongman. You can't solve asher9++.
I can say that there's a 2/3 chance the strongman was 1-shot. That means a fake Doctor claim was more risky than not, although as mentioned it's impossible to catch scum in a fake claim here.
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ash says ADK is an IC. If ash is town, ADK must be town. If ash is scum, ADK is also town. That makes him a true IC.
but why are we treating ash as a semi IC? ADK, any opinion here?
ADK is an IC regardless of me. He claimed UB and no one countered. The end.
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ash says ADK is an IC. If ash is town, ADK must be town. If ash is scum, ADK is also town. That makes him a true IC.
but why are we treating ash as a semi IC? ADK, any opinion here?
ADK is an IC regardless of me. He claimed UB and no one countered. The end.
oh, right.
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I'd vote for awaclus. I can't remember much of what he's posted in this game, which probably means he's scum.
I doubt Awaclus would go through, and I don't have much of an inclination to vote for him. I think you're still on Joseph. Are you okay with Egor too?
Faust: Egor is at L-4, Joseph is at L-3. Joseph, currently on Egor, obviously won't move to himself. Seprix indicated he may be back. I can do Joseph, and Egor will to prevent his lynch. You would still need one more.
Awaclus: Seprix not going through today; are you still around?
This is near the end of D1. Chatter between Ww and awa?
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As for me -- I made the Awaclus lynch happen. I claimed a result, POE'd him, started the wagon, and pushed it through.
Why would I avoid my partner's wagon on D1 only to ensure my second partner's lynch on D3? I know I'm known for gambits and all, but there was no reason for that.
Well, if you did it, you'd probably win the game now, so there's your reason. Anything that lacks a narrative is a narrative.
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Flavor may or may not be added in later
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Joseph2302 (7) : faust, Hydrad, sudgy, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, EgorK, silverspawn
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, chairs
EgorK (2) : Joseph2302, Seprix
seprix (1) : Awaclus
With 12 alive it took 7 to lynch.
Here's the final D1 count.
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As for me -- I made the Awaclus lynch happen. I claimed a result, POE'd him, started the wagon, and pushed it through.
Why would I avoid my partner's wagon on D1 only to ensure my second partner's lynch on D3? I know I'm known for gambits and all, but there was no reason for that.
Well, if you did it, you'd probably win the game now, so there's your reason. Anything that lacks a narrative is a narrative.
For the remaining scum to win, you need two mislynches and two night kills.
At six alive, we could no lynch today...
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WW would protect ADK, so scum would kill him, given I'm harmless without shots...doesn't really help us narrow things down, does it?
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What's the word on hydrad?
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Chairs because he was confirmed town, 100%, no matter what.
After Awaclus was lynched and flipped the second scum, we all knew only one remained. I cleared chairs via investigation. Whether I'm really a cop or lying scum, chairs couldn't be scum.
He was 100% town to everyone, but you decided not to protect him.
Explain.
I didn't even think about that.
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I guess I was hoping this would reveal more.
Doesn't this happen every asher++ game?
I thought the last couple we solved with claims. Wasn't that one where Volt fake claimed Asher9++?
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Scum!ww thinks things through if he's fake claiming, I think. Scum kills the cop and say he protected the IC or vice versa.
I think WW is town.
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I think I like a lynch more then a no lynch right now.
If we lynch and we get a doctor protecting someone we can get a extra lynch. where if we no lynch and he misses a kill nothing really happens.
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WW is probably town.
ash is the hard part. I know from Philosopher's Mafia that he is demonstrably capable of carrying out a crazy scum gambit like "claim cop, get my partner lynched, then try to ride out the towncred until the end," because he did that after I got lynched day one in that game. He got killed by the SK, but the point is he's willing to do it.
I think there might be a way to resolve it, actually, that involves no-lynching, but I think it assumes that scum strongman killed faust. I'll have to look at it later when I have more time.
In a vacuum, I find Silverspawn and sudgy scummier than Hydrad or ash, but I'm not discounting the possibilities.
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Silverspawn's hammer on D1 is scummier than sudgy missing the lynch on D3, I think.
I prefer a Silverspawn lynch at this point.
I don't know what to think about hydrad, though.
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Silverspawn's hammer on D1 is scummier than sudgy missing the lynch on D3, I think.
I prefer a Silverspawn lynch at this point.
I don't know what to think about hydrad, though.
hammering scum is scummy?
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I'm fine with either sudgy or SS. I think the chances are low that scum fakeclaimed.
I think SS is townier though as he was kinda crazy and brining attention to himself this game which feels slight towny to me from him.
So I'd rather a sudgy lynch today.
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So I'd rather a sudgy lynch today.
You think it's scummier to be pushing for your partner's lynch for ages instead of hammering them for the towncred when it looks like he's going to be lynched anyway?
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I am planning on a full reread Monday.
The end of D1, though, I originally thought silver hammered out of nowhere. He did post before hand, sort of asking permission.
Scum often hammer partners for cred if possible.
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I'm fine with either sudgy or SS. I think the chances are low that scum fakeclaimed.
I think SS is townier though as he was kinda crazy and brining attention to himself this game which feels slight towny to me from him.
So I'd rather a sudgy lynch today.
upvote, you are totally right.
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Alright, here's what I came up with as an argument for a no-lynch:
The only way that scum has a full strongman is if both WW and ash are telling the truth. Scum wants to kill me as the only 100% IC, and I'm the obvious target for WW's protection, so if we no-lynch and I die, then that means either:
WW protected me and scum has full strongman (which means ash is telling the truth), or
WW is lying scum, (which also means ash is town)
This hinges on the assumption that scum strongman killed faust, which might be too big an assumption, but if we take it, a no-lynch leads to one of two things:
1) I die, but ash is a complete IC, and town still has two lynches to find scum
2) I live, and a non-me, non-ash person is eliminated from the voting pool
Now that I've considered this plan, I'm not sure I like it because I'm not sure that ash or WW being scum are high possibilities anyway, but I thought I'd at least put it out there to see what people think. And again, there is the slight possibility that WW was Roleblocked Night 1.
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Vote Count 4.1
silverspawn (1): sudgy
Not Voting (5): A Drowned Kernel, silverspawn, Witherweaver, Hydrad, Ashersky
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Alright, here's what I came up with as an argument for a no-lynch:
The only way that scum has a full strongman is if both WW and ash are telling the truth. Scum wants to kill me as the only 100% IC, and I'm the obvious target for WW's protection, so if we no-lynch and I die, then that means either:
WW protected me and scum has full strongman (which means ash is telling the truth), or
WW is lying scum, (which also means ash is town)
This hinges on the assumption that scum strongman killed faust, which might be too big an assumption, but if we take it, a no-lynch leads to one of two things:
1) I die, but ash is a complete IC, and town still has two lynches to find scum
2) I live, and a non-me, non-ash person is eliminated from the voting pool
Now that I've considered this plan, I'm not sure I like it because I'm not sure that ash or WW being scum are high possibilities anyway, but I thought I'd at least put it out there to see what people think. And again, there is the slight possibility that WW was Roleblocked Night 1.
You are wrong in you beginning assumption.
CDDTTT has us all telling the truth and 1-shot strongman, for example.
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I did a little bit of rereading.. Silver doesn't seem all that likely to me from earlier D1.. especially interactions with Awaclus and Joseph. Sudgy looks a little worse. I'll try to find the quotes to substantiate tomorrow.
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oh yeah, I'll need to vote: sudgy
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I'm also fine with a Vote: sudgy
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Thinking back on it, I think it's Hydrad, not silverspawn. There hasn't been much evidence for silverspawn, but Hydrad has just been silently riding it out. Also, quickly rereading him, there's this:
oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
which seems like "I see my partner as scummy but don't want to lynch him."
And then he just votes him later.
To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
"No! Let's not lynch my partner!"
And, his vote for me just now seemed like "I need to wait until someone else votes so I don't look scummy for it..."
Also, both of the scum wagons he joined were early on when you didn't know what was going to happen yet.
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Also I unvoted Joseph but I went back on him right away again within a page I think. I don't see how this part is scummy.
For the egork part that was when we were just a couple hours away from deadline. And it was looking like no one was getting lynched.
I had stated before Silvers vote that I would rather a sudgy lynch today. its not like I just voted you because someone agreed with me.
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Oh, I knew I forgot something from that post. Vote: Hydrad.
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Alright, here's what I came up with as an argument for a no-lynch:
The only way that scum has a full strongman is if both WW and ash are telling the truth. Scum wants to kill me as the only 100% IC, and I'm the obvious target for WW's protection, so if we no-lynch and I die, then that means either:
WW protected me and scum has full strongman (which means ash is telling the truth), or
WW is lying scum, (which also means ash is town)
This hinges on the assumption that scum strongman killed faust, which might be too big an assumption, but if we take it, a no-lynch leads to one of two things:
1) I die, but ash is a complete IC, and town still has two lynches to find scum
2) I live, and a non-me, non-ash person is eliminated from the voting pool
Now that I've considered this plan, I'm not sure I like it because I'm not sure that ash or WW being scum are high possibilities anyway, but I thought I'd at least put it out there to see what people think. And again, there is the slight possibility that WW was Roleblocked Night 1.
You are wrong in you beginning assumption.
CDDTTT has us all telling the truth and 1-shot strongman, for example.
You can both be telling the truth and there's a 1-shot strongman, but in order for there to be a full strongman you both have to be telling the truth- there isn't a five letter combination that leaves us with just a 1-shot doctor and a full doctor or a 1-shot doctor and a 1-shot cop.
If we enact this plan and someone other than me dies, that doesn't prove that one of ash or WW is lying, it's just that if we do and I do die, it proves they're both telling the truth (kind of, barring mafia having gotten a lucky RB)
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Starting my re-read from the beginning, focused on dead scum and remaining alive players that can be scum (hydrad/ww/ss/sudgy).
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
On top of scummy voting, and the crap vote for ADK on food, I will counter claim you right now.
I have the Yule Ham in my PM.
Unless two players submitted Yule ham (which seems improbable, given I don't think it's even a thing), we now have 100% caught scum.
Just choose, vote: Joseph2302 or me.
Remember when you all thought I was crazy for calling him out on the flavor thing? And then he was scum.
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Calling scum teams day one is silly but if I had to guess it right now my guess would be chairs/faust/Silverspawn, and I'm okay lynching all those people right now.
Interesting, mine would probably be chairs/silverspawn/lurker (sudgy/Hydrad/Egor). I think lynching any on my lynch list would be okay right now, although there's still a few days for people to become townier.
Saying that, I seem to often think lurker = scum, and it's not always the case.
Early Joseph "scumteam" post. Not that helpful. If I had to guess, I'd say he included one of his partners in the (lurkers) section.
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my lynch pool for today is lurkers ∪ Joseph ∪ Awaclus. the first set is currently Sudgork and WW, but that could change.
Props.
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yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.
I think this was kind of a towny post.
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Just to be clear, now we're agreed that my wagon is scummy?
I'm not totally convinced, but the general consensus is that chairs is an easy mislynch. Faust just feels scummy to me (for the combination of factors mentioned previously), in stark contrast to M53, when he seemed really towny to me.
Also, would like to see more posts from EgorK, and also WW/sudgy (although I know they're V/LA), think one of them is a lurky scummer.
For now, Unvote: chairs and Vote: Faust.
Joseph pointing out lurkers again.
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300 posts into the re-read and I'm basically convinced silverspawn can't be scum. A short list of references to support a town!silver:
Awaclus reply #155
silverspawn reply #177
Awaclus reply #179
Joseph reply #198
Awaclus reply #199
Awaclus reply #244
silverspawn replies #283, 204
All the interactions with Awaclus don't make sense as partners, especially coming from two players who were just partners previously. He also basically destroys Joseph's fake cop claim before it can do any good.
I just don't see it. SS for MVP if he's scum, but he's out of my lynch pool. I'll keep reading him, of course, and see what comes up. Funny, as I was pretty annoyed with him on D1 with the fake votes, to the point of tunneling the dude.
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Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
Yeah, gut feeling I don't think Joseph lies here. Yes I understand we (likely) get a new unclaimed 1-shot Cop, but is that worth sacrificing a town player for? Maybe it is, but I have a hard time lynching someone I believe is town for strategic purposes.
And then this after faust asks for further info:
No, and I haven't done any kind of due diligence. Just the soft-claim thing first.. it read as genuine to me.
Don't look good.
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oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
Someone else quoted this, right? Also bad.
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I'm probably about 80% certain the last scum is WW or Hydrad, and I think it's Hydrad. I mean, people haven't found him scummy this game, right? ;)
Hydrad, what was your most recent town game?
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I feel like I've justified my votes okay, I made it clear that I was voting for you coz of the weird thing with sudgy & chairs, and chairs because he felt the most scummy at the time. I haven't been jumping on loads of wagons, as the only votes I've made are:
ashersky: in the flavour thing, was right at the time, as he was directly challenging me (turned out that all that bit made no sense anyway)
chairs: seemed scummy at the time, but I gradually got less and less confident, until I unvoted.
faust: never actually voted for, but continually said was scummy (except for in 1 post). Why were you so super-supportive of chairs early on, with not much information to use?
I didn't mind claiming because it seemed safe, and I was the person most in trouble anyway. I thought that claiming my role would not disadvantage town too much, and that this would allow the town to not lose their cop. But now it seems I might be lynched anyway, with no guarantee of a UB existing or not being NKed.
You know what's interesting about this (trimmed full post for legibility and important part)? Comments on ashersky (town), chairs (town), faust (town). These are all of his votes (or possible votes) up to this point of the game.
He harps on the faust/sudgy thing, which was mostly just sudgy voting faust then immediately switching.
If anything, that makes sudgy look worse, since he uses sudgy's voting action as a tell for faust, not for sudgy.
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"Don't lynch me because I'm town" is always my defense as town, so of course there's nothing wrong with it.
Let's not lynch Joseph today and lynch someone more better.
WW continued his townread on Joseph, now almost 400 replies into the game.
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So, all I need to do to get us a better lynch is convince people I'm town, then if faust's logic is correct, ADK is probably scum. In this case, I think lynching someone who is probably scum would be a good idea.
As I know I'm town, this suggests that ADK is scum, so Vote: ADK.
Although I'm still pretty sure there's a scum lurking around, maybe EgorK, he hasn't posted much and hasn't posted a V/LA.
Why do YOU think ADK is scum?
Well, he's had pretty much the same opinions as me, and so if you think I'm scummy, then surely he should be considered scummy too. So ADK scummy, because he's the same as me, who is apparently scummy. I'm not personally very convinced by this argument, as it relies on me being scummy.
I admit there's not many good scum targets, most people who've posted lots feel towny right now.
I respect fauts for trying to get as much information out of me, seems like a towny thing to do.
chairs is confusing, I feel less scummy about him the more i read.
silverspawn is not scummy enough to lynch right now.
Ashersky seems townie
Lurkers seem scummy to me, would probably be the best option for an alternative wagon.
Short reads list from Joseph -- mentions only faust, chairs, me (town) and silverspawn (who I'm more and more convinced is town).
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This is officially going into the "too scummy/wonky to be scum" territory.
#427, still defending Joseph...
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The longer we go on, the more I want to lynch Joseph...
until
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
vote: sudgy for believing Joseph isn't lying -but- still suggesting that means we should lynch him. If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
I recall this catch by chairs (town), which was pretty good.
I'd note that witherweaver votes sudgy in his first post following this.
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If you believe Joseph is town, it is a mistake to lynch him.
Great, finally a clear answer.
I re-read Joseph without Silverspawn's assistance earlier, and I came to the same conclusion as he did, pretty much — I don't think the evidence suggests that Joseph is scum. My favorite lynches right now are faust, sudgy and ashersky. I don't remember why I thought that ashersky was scummy though. Might have been that flavor thing, so it's definitely possible I'll change my opinion about him after I have re-read everything, which I definitely should do. Vote: faust for now.
Does Awaclus include a partner in his trio?
It's sudgy if he does.
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Alright, I reread the earlier chunks of posts. I want to vote Chairs, but honestly scum most likely checks their PM/setup before making a PM-based accusation like that. This is mitigated by the self vote, which is sometimes a desperate scum attempt to emulate what town does (hi PPS).
ADK is probably town. I agree with what he's been saying.
Ash is probably town.
Silver is probably town but needs to cut the hell out of the silly voting. If we can't tell whether or not your vote counts we can't accurately deduce information or make decisions. Most antitown thing I've seen in Mafia thus far. Silver could be going for the "too anti town/scummy to be scum" but I'm inclined to think not here.
I understand the scum reads on Joseph, he was coming off super hedgey. But new players do that. I still don't want to lynch him today.
Gut instinct Hydrad is likely town here. First time ever, so consider this your Christmas present.
Sudgy I still feel good about, and I now think Faust is scummy. Partly because his reads are opposite mine as I'm reading, and more partly because he's done quite a bit of averting lynches (Chairs, Sudgy). A lot of confident "this lynch is bad, this lynch is good," stuff. This is a bit of a combination of white knighting and spreading confusion, as it's hard to pin a partner on you when you've been directing lynches too/from multiple people of different alignments.
I have no idea if that above makes sense, but I'm okay with that.
That new guy that has something that in my memory is a bee I don't think is scummy, but he never answered why he was defending pre-claim Joseph.
Anyone else in this game? Oh, Awaclus. I have nothing there.. seems reasonable, I like his reads from memory. Null to townish.
I want to lynch Sudgy or Faust. I want to want to lynch Chairs, but probably not.
Witherweaver Day 1 reads. Gives one scum a Day 1 pass and the other scum Null to townish.
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Probably doesn't help us much though, as I'm now going to get Nightkilled. :( at least if you don't lynch me, the chance of hitting scum is higher (3/11 not 3/12)- there are 3 scum, right?
Read this and the few posts preceding it. This just isn't how fake claims feel.
Vote: Faust
with an honorable mention to EgorK.
And the hits keep on comin'!
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I want to lynch sudgy or faust.
Christmas post Awaclus.
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A note on votes...
Vote count 1.6, reply #444 had both joseph and sudgy at 4 votes. Joseph had faust, hydrad, sudgy, and ADK. sudgy had chairs, seprix, WW, and Awaclus.
By vote count 1.7, reply #482, sudgy was down to 1 vote, with WW and Awaclus both moving to EgorK, a wagon started by Joseph!
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I'm warming up to a Seprix lynch now.
Unfortunately that makes me warm down on EgorK.
With 15 hours to deadline and no change to the vote count from 1.7, WW says this.
At about 10 hours to deadline, Hydrad (who is voting Joseph) says this:
To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
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I changed my mind. Not lynching EgorK. Let's lynch lurkers in the next game or something.
EgorK was a viable option at this point, even that close to deadline. Could have pushed/nudged it to help save Joseph. Didn't.
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...Wow. I never noticed all that stuff from Witherweaver. That's more than enough for me to Vote: Witherweaver.
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I'd vote for awaclus. I can't remember much of what he's posted in this game, which probably means he's scum.
I doubt Awaclus would go through, and I don't have much of an inclination to vote for him. I think you're still on Joseph. Are you okay with Egor too?
Faust: Egor is at L-4, Joseph is at L-3. Joseph, currently on Egor, obviously won't move to himself. Seprix indicated he may be back. I can do Joseph, and Egor will to prevent his lynch. You would still need one more.
Awaclus: Seprix not going through today; are you still around?
Two hours to go to lynch on D1 and witherweaver still defends Joseph (and Awaclus).
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From there, the last three votes on Joseph are witherweaver, EgorK (Town), then Silverspawn for the hammer.
WW votes with the "I hate how faust's gets his way" thing about an hour before the deadline, putting him to L-2. EgorK is there about ten minutes later, putting him to L-1. Three minutes later, WW asks for one of me, Awaclus, and Seprix to show up to avoid a no lynch.
Silverspawn comes in at 5:19 saying he's inclined to hammer. WW says go for it at 5:27. Silverspawn hammers at 5:47. There was only one odd post from Joseph in the meantime. And D1 ends.
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Other posts of note from D1:
WW: #320 and #464. Both of these talk about how scum plays and how he plays as scum. In 464 he talks about talking in the QT before a game. I tend to think scum are generally a bit more self-aware about being scum and what they do and are likely to talk about it.
sudgy #405 was sort of towny.
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So, after a full re-read of D1 with the knowledge of 2/3s of the scum team plus the ICness of ADK:
--I'm very confident silverspawn is also town. If he's not, he played D1 in a really counter way. Like, he would have purposefully be playing against his teammates to get a lot of towncred for now. I just don't see it.
--Witherweaver looks a lot worse on review. Posted less than usual, a lot of defending scum.
--sudgy and hydrad didn't post a lot. At all. sudgy had one redeeming post, and he was on Joseph for a long time. Hydrad even longer.
Based on that, my current suspicions list goes:
Witherweaver > sudgy = Hydrad
Which is odd, because I feel fairly okay with witherweaver's doctor claim...
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Okay, just re-read D2. That was fast.
Witherweaver started the Seprix wagon, based on this:
Vote: EgorK
I've made my decision. Any lynch is better than no lynch, odds-wise. Lurkers tend to be anti-town, whether he lurks or not. He gives little value to the discussion, and either way will be of minimal loss if he is in fact town. It sucks, but the real criminals of Sudgy and Faust are going free. I'm 100% positive they are both scum.
Vote: Seprix
This looked bad yesterday, moreso now given Joseph's alignment. It was 4-3 Joseph to Egor at this point I think.
Which is funny because, well I just pointed out how witherweaver deflected from Joseph all day.
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Most of the very short day was witherweaver and silverspawn talking about silver's reads. Based on the way they talked, I'd say they can't both be scum (which we know now anyway). I'd guess one is, just because I think scum wants to be there when day begins, although both are just active forum users anyway.
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Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Sudgy's only post of the day. Remember, at the time we only knew one scum, and Seprix was town.
If sudgy is scum here, he knows silver is town anyway. They can't be partners, so he's not trying to prop up a partner. Anyway, I think that line about silver comes from sudgy of either alignment.
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So we have a lynch before I even got to post?
I guess theres no going back now but quick hammers like this always worry me. Seprix as I think your lynced unless I counted wrong if you have any info with a PR you might want to let us now.
Also ADK you stole chairs hammer.
Hydrad's only post of the day. Null.
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After Day 2, I guess my reads go to:
witherweaver > sudgy > Hydrad (only slightly)
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On a side note...the night kill choices.
faust was strong town on D1, sensible. EgorK on N2...he had one post on D2 where he mentioned Awaclus seeming scummy from D1. Maybe they were trying to dodge protection? They didn't know if Seprix's shot was used up so they could assume the UB had one.
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Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
sudgy's subtle defense of Awaclus on D3 -- this was after I claimed and made the point about off-wagon folks.
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I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
How?
OMGUSing, then being like "oh crap, I OMGUSed" and unvoting.
You're forgetting that there was a claim there and it changed things. In retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious that he had a PR which is why he knew that chairs wasn't scum, but at the time, it just felt pretty weird that he would initiate the wagon on me when his evidence for my scumminess was, from my perspective, completely wrong. This is why I originally voted for ashersky. Then he claimed, and suddenly his evidence was apparently correct, so even though the conclusion everyone is drawing from it is still wrong, it makes sense so I don't think it's scummy.
This is all not so convincing.
Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
But anyway, I agree that town!Awaclus would have been doing more.. that was kind of my point above.
Though, it not being a slam dunk case makes me doubt it slightly more. As far as fake claims go, it's rather convenient, because if he does turn out town, you're not really culpable. You still have to argue for two mislynches on wagon, though (or one if you bus).
I don't really find you scummy this game, though, so I'm not inclined to think that.
Two posts where WW subtly defends Awaclus, too.
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Either Ash is telling the truth, or he's scum. You're not making the latter argument. There therefore must be two scum on-wagon against Joseph (from town-you perspective). You should be trying harder to figure out who they are.
I think either ADK or silverspawn is likely one of them (which is what I said earlier), but it's unlikely that they're both scum. The other one has to be you or Hydrad, but I don't really find either of you very scummy.
Fun! He lists four of the six remaining alive. He's trying nail down the "two" scum on-wagon, while knowing there is one. So what's he doing?
He says either ADK or silverspawn (and we know ADK is town), then either WW or Hydrad. He doesn't mention sudgy at all.
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So I reread Awaclus, halfway through Day 1 I was ready to come back and hammer him (it was mostly full of fluff and setup stuff), but his actions at the end of Day 1 didn't seem all that scummy. He got on Joseph's wagon at around spot 3, unvoted after Joseph claimed, and pretty much refused to go for Joseph again. Generally, partners are a little bit more hedgey.. they want the option to jump on the wagon for the town cred. On the other hand, Awaclus could be going for a more blatant scum strategy: don't lynch your partner no matter what.
He was away for deadline, which can happen, but there is also scum motivation to do so (it's hard to be around and make arguments for mislynches; it can end up blowing up in your face).
I know there is Ash's case, too. Can other people reread and share thoughts?
For reference, Awaclus' voting history:
Day 1:
Hydrad (RVS)
Seprix
Faust
Joseph
(Unvote)
Faust
Sudgy
EgorK
Seprix
Faust (joke vote)
Seprix
Day 2:
Seprix
Day 3:
Ashersky
(Unvote)
Another post of WW defending Awaclus.
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On the other hand (well, the same other hand as before), Awaclus' vote for Egor comes at Joseph at 4 votes and Egor at 2 votes. Everyone else had at most 1 vote. Could be trying to start up an alternative wagon to his partner.
In that line of thinking, Silver posts up a pretty long case against Seprix (here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg450298#msg450298)) when it's 4-4 Joseph-Egor. Awaclus immediately follows.
To be fair, followed up with some doubting.
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And then he hammered a day later.
And that's all of D3. Prior to the hammer, we had sudgy saying he was warming up to an Awaclus lynch and would hammer later.
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Day 4 is basically the claims.
ADK was not counterclaimed as UB, so he's 100% confirmed as town.
No one else made a claim that can be confirmed as true or false. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
Witherweaver is the only other PR claim. I find his targets suspect. The faust thing is fine, obviously, strongman is definitely in the game, even if only 1-shot. But I don't see the ADK reads. He quickhammered town on D2! Witherweaver knows that scum won't NK the quickhammerer -- that's a possible mislynch for sure. He also never professed a townread on ADK during the game. And the only thing to happen between N1 and N2 was ADK's actions on D2, which again would not make him a likely NK candidate.
On N3, not realizing chairs or myself was the best protection target is very unlike town!ww, who I think actually thinks things through. He was town player of the year, right?
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So...what's the vote count?
It's possible witherweaver had terrible reads and didn't put much thought into his night actions...but that's not the town!witherweaver that I know. The re-read clearly paints him in the worst light.
Again, I'm sure silverspawn is town based on my re-read. ADK is confirmed by claim.
If it isn't witherweaver, it's between sudgy and hydrad.
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Well, I was pretty wrong most of this game.. I thought Joseph was town, voted him to avoid no lynch. I was leaning scum on Awaclus, and then on reread thought scum wouldn't behave like he did days 1 and 2. What convinced me to vote for him was he giving up attitude all throughout his wagon.
I can't really begrudge the case against me... I was essentially defending scum and then voted for them. Though I was around pushing for Joseph to get lynched at the end of Day 1 and hammered Awaclus, so that would be quite the epic bus.
Hydrad reads town to me, FYI.
PPE: like 12, went afk
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witherweaver (1): sudgy
sudgy (2): silverspawn, hydrad
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, Ashersky
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
That should be accurate.
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Well, I was pretty wrong most of this game.. I thought Joseph was town, voted him to avoid no lynch. I was leaning scum on Awaclus, and then on reread thought scum wouldn't behave like he did days 1 and 2. What convinced me to vote for him was he giving up attitude all throughout his wagon.
I can't really begrudge the case against me... I was essentially defending scum and then voted for them. Though I was around pushing for Joseph to get lynched at the end of Day 1 and hammered Awaclus, so that would be quite the epic bus.
Hydrad reads town to me, FYI.
PPE: like 12, went afk
This sounds like the "giving up attitude" you said Awaclus had.
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So...what's the vote count?
It's possible witherweaver had terrible reads and didn't put much thought into his night actions...but that's not the town!witherweaver that I know. The re-read clearly paints him in the worst light.
Again, I'm sure silverspawn is town based on my re-read. ADK is confirmed by claim.
If it isn't witherweaver, it's between sudgy and hydrad.
PPE: 2
Keep in mind I was legitimately gone most of Day 1.
Also, scum puts a lot more thought into making sure their night actions look perfect for a fake claim than town does choosing them. If I were fake claiming, I'd say I protected you, or Chairs and the kill just went through with Strongman.
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Well, I was pretty wrong most of this game.. I thought Joseph was town, voted him to avoid no lynch. I was leaning scum on Awaclus, and then on reread thought scum wouldn't behave like he did days 1 and 2. What convinced me to vote for him was he giving up attitude all throughout his wagon.
I can't really begrudge the case against me... I was essentially defending scum and then voted for them. Though I was around pushing for Joseph to get lynched at the end of Day 1 and hammered Awaclus, so that would be quite the epic bus.
Hydrad reads town to me, FYI.
PPE: like 12, went afk
This sounds like the "giving up attitude" you said Awaclus had.
No, Awaclus didn't make any effort to find scum.
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Day 4 is basically the claims.
ADK was not counterclaimed as UB, so he's 100% confirmed as town.
No one else made a claim that can be confirmed as true or false. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
Witherweaver is the only other PR claim. I find his targets suspect. The faust thing is fine, obviously, strongman is definitely in the game, even if only 1-shot. But I don't see the ADK reads. He quickhammered town on D2! Witherweaver knows that scum won't NK the quickhammerer -- that's a possible mislynch for sure. He also never professed a townread on ADK during the game. And the only thing to happen between N1 and N2 was ADK's actions on D2, which again would not make him a likely NK candidate.
On N3, not realizing chairs or myself was the best protection target is very unlike town!ww, who I think actually thinks things through. He was town player of the year, right?
Pretty sure I stated a town read on ADK early on. Him hammering Seprix made it stronger.. Scum!ADK doesn't make that play, I think. Scum probably sees this, too, so he's a good night kill choice.
Night 3 was a mistake not thinking through Chairs. I make those.
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Vote Count 4.2
sudgy (2): silverspawn, Hydrad
Witherweaver (1): sudgy
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, Ashersky
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Hmm interesting reread but thanks for doing it. I didn't notice all the ww stuff. My biggest worry though is that since it's not mylo yet do we want to lynch a possible doctor? If he saves someone in the night we get a extra lynch. If he's scum we can lynch him tomorrow.
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I think the most likely case if Ash is town is full strongman, so I'm not that useful.
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I think the most likely case if Ash is town is full strongman, so I'm not that useful.
Ah that makes more sense then.
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Also given that kill went through Night 1. If not from a Roleblock, why use 1-shot so early?
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I think the most likely case if Ash is town is full strongman, so I'm not that useful.
It's more likely that the strongman was 1-shot, just based on possible permutations.
Also given that kill went through Night 1. If not from a Roleblock, why use 1-shot so early?
Good point. Probably because you aren't a Doctor.
vote: witherweaver
The re-read points to you, your claim doesn't add up to me. You had a claimed cop and his town result to choose from. Inconceivable to me that town!WW doesn't protect there.
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vote: ww also L-1 I believe
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I think the most likely case if Ash is town is full strongman, so I'm not that useful.
It's more likely that the strongman was 1-shot, just based on possible permutations.
Also given that kill went through Night 1. If not from a Roleblock, why use 1-shot so early?
Good point. Probably because you aren't a Doctor.
vote: witherweaver
The re-read points to you, your claim doesn't add up to me. You had a claimed cop and his town result to choose from. Inconceivable to me that town!WW doesn't protect there.
How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
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vote: ww also L-1 I believe
Slow down there buddy.
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How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
I don't know. And that's a point in your favor.
But there are just many more points against you.
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Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well).
Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything. You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town. You can miss things.
My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK. I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK. I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.
Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?
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How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
I don't know. And that's a point in your favor.
But there are just many more points against you.
It should be a big one. My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions. Why make this claim as scum? My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny. I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim. Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened). In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch. And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game. I have other things and other games.
And, why even make this claim at all? Why not just go VT? I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.
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unvote actually. I'm going to think about it a bit more if I like sudgy or ww more.
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Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well).
Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything. You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town. You can miss things.
My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK. I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK. I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.
Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?
You'd be better off making a case on someone else, I think.
I mean, yeah, bad night choices can be a town defense. Before my re-read, I was basically believing your claim and suspecting sudgy (mostly for his reaction to the Awaclus wagon). But after re-read, a lot of stuff is against you, man.
I could still see sudgy or hydrad just being a lying scum. The EgorK kill is odd, for example. But I don't know, I need to see more, something I missed on re-read, to be convinced.
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How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
I don't know. And that's a point in your favor.
But there are just many more points against you.
It should be a big one. My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions. Why make this claim as scum? My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny. I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim. Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened). In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch. And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game. I have other things and other games.
And, why even make this claim at all? Why not just go VT? I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.
Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town. You never professed ADK's towniness. And he quickhammered town on D2. How did that not change your thought process at all?
Why not go VT? We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you. Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive. You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.
There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.
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Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well).
Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything. You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town. You can miss things.
My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK. I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK. I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.
Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?
You'd be better off making a case on someone else, I think.
I mean, yeah, bad night choices can be a town defense. Before my re-read, I was basically believing your claim and suspecting sudgy (mostly for his reaction to the Awaclus wagon). But after re-read, a lot of stuff is against you, man.
I could still see sudgy or hydrad just being a lying scum. The EgorK kill is odd, for example. But I don't know, I need to see more, something I missed on re-read, to be convinced.
I haven't done my full reread yet.
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How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
I don't know. And that's a point in your favor.
But there are just many more points against you.
It should be a big one. My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions. Why make this claim as scum? My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny. I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim. Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened). In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch. And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game. I have other things and other games.
And, why even make this claim at all? Why not just go VT? I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.
Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town. You never professed ADK's towniness. And he quickhammered town on D2. How did that not change your thought process at all?
Why not go VT? We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you. Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive. You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.
There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.
How would I be able to argue past scum simply killing me instead of my target?
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How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?
Think this through.
I don't know. And that's a point in your favor.
But there are just many more points against you.
It should be a big one. My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions. Why make this claim as scum? My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny. I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim. Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened). In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch. And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game. I have other things and other games.
And, why even make this claim at all? Why not just go VT? I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.
Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town. You never professed ADK's towniness. And he quickhammered town on D2. How did that not change your thought process at all?
Why not go VT? We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you. Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive. You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.
There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.
How would I be able to argue past scum simply killing me instead of my target?
I'm saying that as scum you have plenty of reasons to claim doctor instead of VT. In your own quote up there, you ask me "why even make this claim at all? why not go VT?"
So you asked me why scum!ww fakeclaims doctor instead of VT. I told you. Then you respond to my reasons with what would happen if you were telling the truth? That, my friend, is scummy.
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Huh? You sound like you're getting caught up in rhetoric.
You said that scum!me could no-kill to verify my Doctor claim, showing that I protected someone. But anyone observing that scenario would wonder why scum didn't decide to just kill the claimed Doctor.
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Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well).
Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything. You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town. You can miss things.
My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK. I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK. I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.
Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?
That chairs was an IC? Yes. And it's hard for to claim to have protected chairs when he was killed.
I'm buying the WW case more and more but I do have to do a reread to convince myself it isn't ash being crazy scum.
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I think ash is town.
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Well anyway, let's not get caught up in this. I'm making a point that it wouldn't make all that much sense to fakeclaim Doctor here. People can either believe that or not believe that.
Someone here is actually scum, and we need to find him. Voting history still has me preferring Sudgy or Silverspawn, and possibly Ash as well. I haven't gotten a scum impression from Hydrad. Reread of the first half or two thirds of day one had me leaning away from Silverspawn, and therefore towards Sudgy. My thoughts on Silverspawn looked pretty similar to what Ash said in his reread, that his interactions with Joseph/Awaclus did not look like town.
Will try to read through the rest in the next couple days.
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I think ash is town.
His activity here, and the fact that he's pursuing the WW lynch over the probably easier silver or you lynch, makes me think so. But I'm paranoid enough to do a reread of him.
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Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well).
Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything. You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town. You can miss things.
My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK. I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK. I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.
Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?
That chairs was an IC? Yes. And it's hard for to claim to have protected chairs when he was killed.
I'm buying the WW case more and more but I do have to do a reread to convince myself it isn't ash being crazy scum.
It's not hard to make that claim, since if I were scum, I'd know Ash is telling the truth and I'd know I was taking a PR with doctor, so I could argue scum has a full Strongman.
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I think ash is town.
His activity here, and the fact that he's pursuing the WW lynch over the probably easier silver or you lynch, makes me think so. But I'm paranoid enough to do a reread of him.
I still think Silver and Sudgy are more likely than Ash.
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Oh here's a thought.
Ash was the one that counterclaimed Joseph's flavor info. Do you talk about your flavor in scum QT? Usually it comes up, especially if you're a newer player (Joseph and Awaclus), because you don't know if it matters so you're probably going to ask/bring up lots of things. At this point the mistake would likely be found.. well, unless clever Ash decides to keep quiet to make it look legit in the forum. But decent chance not.
Another point towards Sudgy/Silver.
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Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.
On top of scummy voting, and the crap vote for ADK on food, I will counter claim you right now.
I have the Yule Ham in my PM.
Unless two players submitted Yule ham (which seems improbable, given I don't think it's even a thing), we now have 100% caught scum.
Just choose, vote: Joseph2302 or me.
Even aside from that argument, this is not how Ash treats his partners. The interactions look genuine. He's likely town.
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon. It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched. Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.
After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up. Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix. I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.
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Vote Count 4.3
sudgy (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (2): sudgy, Ashersky
Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, Hydrad
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon. It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched. Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.
After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up. Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix. I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.
well I was wrong about seprix, but you have to admit that he was being crazy inconsistent. and I did say that joseph was scum at the end of the same post, which turned out to be true, and that awaclus might be scum, which also turned out to be true.
The narrative for you to make a bad claim is simple. Bad claims look better than perfect claims. I could see scum!you choosing questionable targets for your claim in order to fabricate sloppy!town!targets
I'm also not about town!you choosing these targets. Aren't you usually pretty good with your PR's?
I think scum is probably either you or Hydrad at this point, so unvote. sudgy not really, he reminds me a lot of his play in deathnote mafia
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short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town
so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.
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short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town
so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.
It's not me, and I really don't see Hydrad.
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want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky
Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon. It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched. Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.
After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up. Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix. I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.
well I was wrong about seprix, but you have to admit that he was being crazy inconsistent. and I did say that joseph was scum at the end of the same post, which turned out to be true, and that awaclus might be scum, which also turned out to be true.
The narrative for you to make a bad claim is simple. Bad claims look better than perfect claims. I could see scum!you choosing questionable targets for your claim in order to fabricate sloppy!town!targets
I'm also not about town!you choosing these targets. Aren't you usually pretty good with your PR's?
I think scum is probably either you or Hydrad at this point, so unvote. sudgy not really, he reminds me a lot of his play in deathnote mafia
I've very rarely played (town) PRs.
I was a 3-shot Cop in Zelda Mafia. I had a PR (x-shot doctor maybe) in some RMM game.. Pokeman I think, where I died by hammering Andrew. I had a role in Guilds Mafia, too, and I got pretty heavily criticized for using that. And Dice Mafia I had a Saboteur ability (basically anti-town). I'm not sure I've had any other roles.. I was scum for quite a while and then most of my town games have been VT. So I wouldn't really say I've been good with PRs.
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As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it. But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.
We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason. I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.
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As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it. But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.
We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason. I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.
well you're wrong, because I'm town and I don't think sudgy is scum.
The statement is pretty ridiculous too, because sudgy was pushing both scum before they died. Why should I be more confident about him than I am about you?
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As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it. But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.
We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason. I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.
well you're wrong, because I'm town and I don't think sudgy is scum.
The statement is pretty ridiculous too, because sudgy was pushing both scum before they died. Why should I be more confident about him than I am about you?
You really think Sudgy was pushing Awaclus? I wouldn't call it much of a push. Not really with Joseph, either.
But if it's not Sudgy, then I think it has to be you. Unless you have a really good argument for Hydrad.
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As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it. But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.
We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason. I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.
well you're wrong, because I'm town and I don't think sudgy is scum.
The statement is pretty ridiculous too, because sudgy was pushing both scum before they died. Why should I be more confident about him than I am about you?
You really think Sudgy was pushing Awaclus? I wouldn't call it much of a push. Not really with Joseph, either.
But if it's not Sudgy, then I think it has to be you. Unless you have a really good argument for Hydrad.
Why do I need a really good reason for Hydrad, but not a really good reason for sudgy? You're being illogical.
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Huh? Hydrad was on both scum wagons and doesn't seem scummy to me otherwise.
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[long post arguing pro joseph lynch]
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
I still think we should lynch Joseph. If he's scum, we lynch scum. If he's town, we save his shot. Even if you think he's town (I don't) you should see that his lynch is good.
Hey ash, I don't think silverspawn is happening, and you seem to be fine with Joseph. Join us!
Day 2:
I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday. When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.
So... how is Hydrad better than sudgy?
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I was about to reply to WW saying that I was a big supporter of the Joseph lynch, but SS just did it for me.
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I was about to reply to WW saying that I was a big supporter of the Joseph lynch, but SS just did it for me.
Well, your posts didn't seem a lot like "big supporter" to me; I had only recalled that one post with probabilities and the "even if he's town it's okay to lynch him" conclusion. But I went back and there were a couple posts encouraging people to join Joseph. Your Day 1 content is basically exclusively Joseph.
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This looks a little worse for Hydrad:
yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.
This was early, Joseph was at 2 votes. After claim:
oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
This was well after others unvoted/moved from Joseph. After some discussion, Joseph is back down to 2 votes:
Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.
Interesting I didn't think of that.
In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor is lynching him maybe the correct move? Hes already outed so him living till tomorrow isn't very likely unless we have a doctor in the game so his 1 shot isn't really useful at all. But if we lynch him then our UB should at least be able to use that 1 shot well.
And in Hydrad's next post, he votes for Joseph, and rides it until lynch.
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I agree Hydrad seems somewhat scummy. I just think you are more. My reads are currently you (WW) are scum, Hydrad slightly scummy, and townreads on everyone else.
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I had also forgotten, I was less moved by the "it's okay to lynch Joseph since he won't get a result and we have a backup" argument, as I had intended on protecting Joseph after his claim.
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I had also forgotten, I was less moved by the "it's okay to lynch Joseph since he won't get a result and we have a backup" argument, as I had intended on protecting Joseph after his claim.
maybe
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Silver D3 looks worse than Silver D1:
vote: guys this is L-1 don't you think this is going a little bit fast?
I'm not sure if me finding Awaclus scummy was based on my Seprix read. I'll reread that.
don't hammer.
Awaclus (never in danger of being lynched) was his top scum read all throughout Day 1.
also, since you already claimed cop, want to share your other target? we had 2 nights. unless you want to keep it a secret for more information.
Possible fishing for full/1-shot Cop.
Who do you think is scum, then?
Awaclus.
I freed myself of offsite responsibilities, so I'll have more time to put into this game. tomorrow.
Awaclus is at L-1 here.
Gah, I wanted to reread and stuff... I know I should have done that already, but I was being lazy. Mh. Dunno if I'm in the best position to complain, but what's with these quickhammers? we're not playing blitz.
Sounds a bit like "I wanted the hammer cred".
I still don't find this all that compelling. I'm back to wondering about Ash.
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Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
Who put down Olvieux salad as their favorite holiday food, and can they explain to me what the hell that is?
Oh and vote: WW just on general principle.
vote: ADK for somehow seeing favorite holiday foods.
I was also curious, how did you see this? Or did you randomly create this type of salad that Google doesn't acknowledge the existence of? All in all, seems pretty scummy to me, and you were scummy last time, so Vote:ADK.
SUPER DUPER SCUM SLIPS!!!!
Looks like scum didn't get the same time of Role PMs that town got. Fantastico!
vote: chairs first, then Joseph tomorrow.
Interesting, scum and town both "scumslip" but he votes for the town player instead of the scum.
Doesn't actually weigh in on the Joseph case, but rather says things like this:
Back to Joseph for a minute:
You know what the big issue is here? Joseph is making the classic mistake when trying to survive. He's arguing about why his lynch is bad, not why the case is bad.
Consider this analogy;
Joseph works at a bank as a teller. His boss comes up to him one day at the end of work and says "Joseph, you are fired. You've made too many errors at the teller window and you're costing the bank $25.00 a day in losses. Sorry."
Joseph replies, "but boss, it's not a good idea to fire me because Sally's out on maternity leave and with all the new business coming in from our free checking with a free toaster campaign, you really need all the teller windows open! It's not a great idea to fire me right now."
Joseph never addresses the issue of making errors and losing money. He just tries to explain why it's bad for the bank to fire him.
Joseph, all of your defenses continue to rely on you being a 1-Shot Cop, which we don't know to be true.
You need to come up with some defenses that are not related to the importance of a 1-Shot Cop existing.
First actual opinioned input. Joseph is a leading wagon:
I will vote to ensure a lynch, but I don't really like the leading wagons. I guess I don't mind them, as far as these things go, but there are better options.
Stays on Silver and is not around for lynch. (Granted, time zone means he wouldn't be around regardless, but he leaves his vote on Silver instead of the viable Egor/Joseph.)
Day 1 Ash does not look that great, aside from the flavor-based argument I made before. And that Ash doesn't vote for his partners like this. Maybe he was basically obligated to at that point in order to maintain his town behavior?
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"like this" there refers to his Day 1 Joseph vote where he counterclaimed flavor.
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This could have been premeditated in scum QT to decide the night kill:
Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
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Saw that coming, he crumbed that pretty unsubtly yesterday. That said, you don't think Silverspawn is a more likely scum candidate?
What was Ash's breadcrumbing?
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Ah I can't decide. I'm starting to get a more towny read on WW. I think ash is town still. At the moment I think I'm leaning towards sudgy again. I really don't know where to sit with SS. I think SS/WW are around the same for me right now.
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Vote: adk
Chairs is definitely town.
vote: seprix
L-1 people.
I'm fairly certain ADK is referring to this post when he says I crumbed it unsubtly.
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Oh, darn, I was hoping it was on Day 1, so we can exclude the "Ash comes up with the Cop true fakeclaim gambit after his partner gets lynched D1" scenario.
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Did you drop any hints as to your role on D1?
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Did you drop any hints as to your role on D1?
I don't think so.
Remember that Joseph fakeclaimed my exact role. Not sure what that means, but I knew not to counterclaim him.
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Did you drop any hints as to your role on D1?
I don't think so.
Remember that Joseph fakeclaimed my exact role. Not sure what that means, but I knew not to counterclaim him.
I did consider that, but I ultimately decided there's nothing to be had from it. If you really are town, then you knew there could be two of you, so makes sense not to say anything. If you're scum, you probably decided to do this after Day 1 anyway.
I guess we can consider.. if someone claims my role in this setup am I more suspicious of them? Probably not, the C/E combinations that give two 1-shot Cops are not all that unlikely. You didn't seem to cast a lot of suspicion on Joseph. Honestly your interactions after Faust got the wagon going on Joseph (ignoring all the other stuff) makes you seem like a likely candidate. Lots mitigates that, though~
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Folks, we're stalling.
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Maybe we all do a list thing?
WW > sudgy = hydrad > silverspawn
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I want Silver or Sudgy. I'm leaving closer to Silver now.
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Leaning.
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ADK, we need your help.
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Why is Silverspawn more town than Hydrad?
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finally reread hydard (although not very thoroughly), I think he's town.
vote: WW
L-1
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I'm still at WW>silver>sudgy>ash>hydrad
I need to do a reread before I'll hammer though, I'll finally have some free time tomorrow so that will happen.
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Do not hammer me. This is silly. It's like we're throwing away the game.
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sudgy>WW>SS>asher
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Vote: Silverspawn
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WW>Hydrad>SS>ash
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Do not hammer me. This is silly. It's like we're throwing away the game.
Not how I expect town!WW to plead.
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Do not hammer me. This is silly. It's like we're throwing away the game.
Also, it's "like" we are throwing away the game, but we're not actually throwing away the game? Freudian slip?
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Do not hammer me. This is silly. It's like we're throwing away the game.
Also, it's "like" we are throwing away the game, but we're not actually throwing away the game? Freudian slip?
Stop it, seriously.
It's like it because all but one of you don't actually know, even though you should. You also have a chance to lynch correctly tomorrow.
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Reasons I'm not scum:
1) I'm around at deadline Day 1 to ensure "my partner" Joseph gets lynched. Before late into Day 1 I was defending Joseph pretty heavily. This is not partner behavior. Partners are going to be much more subtle about deflecting lynches. Look at Awaclus' treatment of Joseph; he at least kept Joseph in the "nullish" category while insisting there were better lynches.
2) I did actual work (reread) to figure out if Awaclus was scum or not. Awaclus knows he's caught, his partner knows he's caught. He knows here's nothing to be found to argue that Awaclus is town. If Ash is not scum, then the other scum knows that Ashersky is telling the truth and doesn't have to consider the possibility that Ash is scum. The partner here is more likely to quickly bus or be noncommital to see how the town moves.
3) I'm a claimed Doctor, and I doctored my strongest town read every night. As I've pointed out, scum claims are much more careful about looking clean because they know they will be held up to scrutiny. Town choices are governed by instinct more often than not. There is also a chance scum does not have a full strongman, and a Doctor tonight could be very useful.
4) I admit to having poor reads this game, but I was also away for the beginning. What was happening when I had some time to come back to the game---without reading everything---is Joseph's claim thing. It sounded like he was town to me. I didn't read (or only glanced at) all the previous stuff that caused people to vote for him in the first place. I don't need to come back here as scum and suddenly start defending him. Ashersky's response is much more scummy, wherein he only talked about the basic logistics and didn't weigh in with an opinion.
5) Partner bussing is much more consistent than my treatment of Joseph and Awaclus. My read on Joseph went from town to "okay I see what you guys are saying" to "okay I guess I have to vote for him". My read on Awaclus went from nothing to "yeah probably scum" to "wait would scum really behave like this?" to "yeah let's hammer this guy". Look for their partner to be someone who either took hedged/no position or someone that kept them securely and consistently as "scum read" throughout (i.e., Silverspawn).
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Do not hammer me. This is silly. It's like we're throwing away the game.
Not how I expect town!WW to plead.
This is me getting frustrated. Lynching Silver/Sudgy today and tomorrow is most likely game. If we don't lynch one of them today, how are we going to figure out which one it is tomorrow? I can't see the thing that distinguishes them.
But instead we want to lynch our only PR left. (I can't imagine ADK's shot being useful tonight.)
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Vote Count 4.4
Witherweaver (3): sudgy, Ashersky, silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Not Voting (2): A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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After reading things over...
vote: sudgy
He's my preferred lynch today, based on day one interactions.
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After reading things over...
vote: sudgy
He's my preferred lynch today, based on day one interactions.
that's... unexpected. really, sudgy? I'm not sure if I'm willing to switch.
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After reading things over...
vote: sudgy
He's my preferred lynch today, based on day one interactions.
Why does Sudgy look worse than Silver on Day 1 interactions? I was kind of of this impression at first, as well, but then I'm not sure Sudgy would treat his partner Joseph like that.
Silver, on the other hand, refused to vote at all and tried to push other lynches (including Awaclus) while keeping Joseph on the "would lynch" list the entire time.
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Oh, right.. Silver backs off of potential EgorK lynch when it possibly could have gone through...
Really I think Ash looks worse on Day 1 alone.
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Oh, right.. Silver backs off of potential EgorK lynch when it possibly could have gone through...
Really I think Ash looks worse on Day 1 alone.
Just based on not voting, I guess.
I counter claimed his flavor food, though, and you have to think I just came out and destroyed my second partner on D3.
I don't see scummy silver (from interactions) on D1. D3, yes.
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Oh, right.. Silver backs off of potential EgorK lynch when it possibly could have gone through...
Really I think Ash looks worse on Day 1 alone.
Just based on not voting, I guess.
I counter claimed his flavor food, though, and you have to think I just came out and destroyed my second partner on D3.
I don't see scummy silver (from interactions) on D1. D3, yes.
Yeah, I was thinking you wouldn't have done the food claim to your partner. On the other hand, you would know that it wouldn't go anywhere, and would end in a mod correction. But yes that part reads more like town.
As for destroying your other partner, that actually would be a consequence of Day 2, where you (soft) claimed a town result on Chairs. Note that your response to this was to vote Seprix, not Awaclus. You then talk it over that night, and you only need two more mislynches to win, and you have potential in {Silver, Sudgy, Me} as long as one of them isn't Universal Backup. (Hydrad and ADK being unlikely mislynch candidates.) Awaclus is likely getting caught, anyway, so it's worth it for you to call him out for cred.
Then, though, we have to wonder about that EgorK kill. Do you narrow the pull even further to make the whole thing more believable?
Well the more I talk about it the less I like the narrative.
I wonder why EgorK was killed at all, actually... to avoid a potential Doctor? Well, okay, Seprix had just flipped 1-shot Doctor, so scum knew it was inherited by Backup, so maybe they were avoiding that. I'm not sure if Chairs would have been an obvious kill that night. I didn't pick up on the claiming thing. I don't know, I'm tempted to think potential mind games are the least likely scenario, which I think pushes me away from Ash further.
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After reading things over...
vote: sudgy
He's my preferred lynch today, based on day one interactions.
What's so scummy about my D1? I thought it was pretty good, with the Joseph lynch.
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After reading things over...
vote: sudgy
He's my preferred lynch today, based on day one interactions.
What's so scummy about my D1? I thought it was pretty good, with the Joseph lynch.
I can come up with a scum narrative pretty easily. You were on your partner early, it gained steam, it would have been suspect to jump off.
You pushed it early, not late. You were like third on the wagon.
But on my re-read, you didn't come up scummiest, but second scummiest.
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Vote Count 4.5
Witherweaver (3): sudgy, Ashersky, silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
sudgy (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (1): Hydrad
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Deadline is this weekend.
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Vote: sudgy
I should be here during the weekend so if fully needed I'd be willing to lynch WW but at this point I think it might be sudgy.
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I'd obviously vote Sudgy, but I feel Silver more.
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Fine, I'm a 1-shot Cop.
Okay, unvote. You investigate tonight, and if you're still alive by tomorrow, we can still lynch you.
Let's look at the possible outcomes
1 - he dies. okay, that's great, clearly better than lynching him, but it's pretty unlikely
2 - he is alive and claims scum result on X. We can lynch X, then we mislynched two targets instead of lynching him now. Good trade for him.
3 - he is alive and claims town result on X. Now, if we go ahead and lynch him, we have created an IC, although that IC might not survive the next night.
I'm not sure if that is really good enough. Note also that one shot cop is a super safe claim for scum, because there is no way it can backfire.
honestly, this just confirms my suspicion that Joseph is scum
also vote: ashersky for tunneling me
Interesting thing here. This is the response to Joseph's claim. Standard scum play would be to not jump off wagon immediately, but get off sometime unnoticed later (when discussion has moved on). Or get off with a pretty acceptable excuse (for example, Faust's response, which can and did come from town). (Notably, Partner!Awaclus doesn't do this, Partner!Awaclus immediately unvotes after Faust unvotes, but we've already established Awaclus wasn't playing a coy scum game.)
Silver also immediately follows:
also, Joseph defending me sounds kind of like white knighting. if he's scum, he knows I'm town. I think he has mentioned twice that he doesn't think I'm scum.
also, if he is scum in 3., then we just lynch him one turn later, which is also bad.
Then significantly later is a big post that analyzes Joseph (here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.msg449862#msg449862)), at which point he moves his vote. Though, he moves it to Awaclus makes a fake vote for Awaclus.
I was typing this up thinking that Silver was on the Joseph wagon, but he never voted Day 1 until the hammer. Well, he came out in favor of the Joseph lynch, then got away from it and favored an Awaclus lynch. That post is a really big post to get away from the Joseph lynch.. scum will tend to overexplain and make sure their actions are justified, but this post (with rereads and links) is excessive for that, and is probably less indicative of a partner.
Oh, funny, he even addresses it:
For now, vote: Awagork. Scummy and lurking. I don't like a sudgy lynch that much anymore, because I really like his last post. I'm still not horribly opposed to a Joseph lynch though. ASH LOOK HOW I AM DEFENDING MY SCUM BUDDY BY FABRICATING AN OPINION SWITCH OMFG
This is something I would absolutely say as town, and would say as scum to make myself look town (a la a "come on, who says that about his partner" defense). Not really sure about Silver.
Silver: Why did you want to lynch Awaclus/EgorK in this post? You said "scummy and lurking". I know EgorK was a heavy lurker here, but was Awaclus? What was scummy about him then?
Also:
I changed my mind. Not lynching EgorK. Let's lynch lurkers in the next game or something.
What made you change your mind here?
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To note: silver tried to deflect to Awaclus, if that's your argument for D1. Deflect from one partner to another?
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To note: silver tried to deflect to Awaclus, if that's your argument for D1. Deflect from one partner to another?
Right, that was part of the point I was making. Except he really deflected to EgorK/Awaclus.
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I'm not sure I get your point. I deflected from one partner to Egork/Awaclus, but then didn't pressure Egork, even though I had a perfectly believable excuse with him lurking and all. I overexplain my opinions, but then I randomly get away from Egork without any explanation. So... ??
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What made you change your mind here?
the post right before that:
I'm okay-ish with Egor, but there are so many scummy people on that wagon.
That's actually true. Awaclus, Joseph, and Seprix are all on there.
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*silver: Why did you want to lynch Awaclus/EgorK in this post? You said "scummy and lurking". I know EgorK was a heavy lurker here, but was Awaclus? What was scummy about him then?
As far as I remember, I found Awaclus scummy the whole game.
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This is something I would absolutely say as town, and would say as scum to make myself look town (a la a "come on, who says that about his partner" defense). Not really sure about *silver.
When I was writing that post, I realized that this argument could be made, so I added that part acknowledging that I was aware of that and chose to post it anyway.
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At this point I'm more sure of sudgy than I am of silver.
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I'm not sure I get your point. I deflected from one partner to Egork/Awaclus, but then didn't pressure Egork, even though I had a perfectly believable excuse with him lurking and all. I overexplain my opinions, but then I randomly get away from Egork without any explanation. So... ??
I'm not so much making a point as trying to figure out which narrative makes more sense.
Vote: Sudgy
That's L-1
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At this point I'm more sure of sudgy than I am of silver.
And even less than WW?
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Hydrad, you need to come in and vote soon...
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sudgy... are you scum or town?
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Hydrad, you need to come in and vote soon...
I am voting. And i'm voting for you.
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I like WW better.
That he stagnated at L-1 means something.
Sudgy is my second choice, though.
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sudgy... are you scum or town?
I am town.
Hydrad, you need to come in and vote soon...
I am voting. And i'm voting for you.
Oh. Sorry. I looked at the last vote count.
Anyway, I don't really know how to defend myself, since the main things I've seen against me is you saying the way I was on the Joseph lynch was scummy (I don't even see how you can even think that, but oh well...), and that I wasn't on the Awaclus lynch (when I wanted to). I don't really see how I'm a great lynch. WW, as ashersky pointed out, has way more evidence against him.
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Witherweaver (3): sudgy, Ashersky, silverspawn
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, hydrad, Ww
Not Voting (0):
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
Here is where we are.
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Witherweaver (3): sudgy, Ashersky, silverspawn
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, hydrad, Ww
Not Voting (0):
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:00 p.m.
So, my top two reads, at least.
We can afford a mislynch here, and we can use the narrowing. There are a few issues that may arise on D5 if we have one.
Anyone willing to switch to WW?
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I mean, it's me and SS talking to ADK and Hydrad, right? The other two aren't switching.
Both SS and I have to trust ADK over Hydrad anyway. If I'm way off base and hydrad is the final scum, makes sense he's sheeping ADK.
Makes sense for scum!ww, too.
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I would rather stay on sudgy, it makes more sense to me in general, and WW's claim makes it feel safer to me.
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Actually, ww' doctor claim is more dangerous. If he's lying scum, he has so many option at night to make himself seem town (no kill, odd kill, etc.). If he's town doc, he's providing scum those same options.
If we lynch him and we are wrong, scum have nothing to hide behind. That just means they kill ADK, but we can no lynch at 4 to narrow it down to lylo.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
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The planning session for that day was coming to swift conclusion. Just a few more hours to go. "Witherweaver doesn't like the beaver!" someone shouted. "We should de-transmogrify him!"
"Err...that makes no sense even if it does rhyme." Another person said. "Much better to de-transmogrify sudgy, he doesn't look too fudgy."
Vote Count 4.6
Witherweaver (3): sudgy, Ashersky, silverspawn
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, Witherweaver
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.
That's in about 16 hours!
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"Err...that makes no sense even if it does rhyme." Another person said. "Much better to de-transmogrify sudgy, he doesn't look too fudgy."
I hope you know this doesn't rhyme...
Anyway, I can't think of too much more to say at this point, lynch WW, not me.
I think we should no lynch tomorrow if someone dies (which only has a possiblity of not occuring if you lynch me instead of WW), to narrow the lynch pool. Remember this if I die.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Maybe this is me being paranoid, but wouldn't town!doctor!WW say something like "I could end up being very helpful" rather than doctor could be helpful?
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I don't know, I don't really want to switch. I just feel WW more than sudgy.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Maybe this is me being paranoid, but wouldn't town!doctor!WW say something like "I could end up being very helpful" rather than doctor could be helpful?
Agreed.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Don't you mean scum has to kill you? If scum doesn't have strongman I'm protected tonight. Because you're a doctor, right?
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Don't you mean scum has to kill you? If scum doesn't have strongman I'm protected tonight. Because you're a doctor, right?
ADK sees it, too.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Don't you mean scum has to kill you? If scum doesn't have strongman I'm protected tonight. Because you're a doctor, right?
Killing me is narrowing the Lynch pool.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Maybe this is me being paranoid, but wouldn't town!doctor!WW say something like "I could end up being very helpful" rather than doctor could be helpful?
The doctor ability is what is potentially helpful. This feels like grasping at straws.
If you really want evidence on how terrible this kind of reasoning is, lynch me and observe "Doctor".
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Maybe this is me being paranoid, but wouldn't town!doctor!WW say something like "I could end up being very helpful" rather than doctor could be helpful?
The doctor ability is what is potentially helpful. This feels like grasping at straws.
If you really want evidence on how terrible this kind of reasoning is, lynch me and observe "Doctor".
I'm trying to get you lynched.
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Sudgy looks the worst by far, especially his lackadaisical defense today ("oh hey just lynch WW instead"). Hydrad's been absent from doing any kind of work today, too; maybe he shouldn't be getting such a pass.
Silver is looking better; svum doesn't make to like such weak points when they know they're wrong.
Ash still looks like Ash. He treated me like this in Dice Mafia, too, so this level of tunneling isn't a tell.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Maybe this is me being paranoid, but wouldn't town!doctor!WW say something like "I could end up being very helpful" rather than doctor could be helpful?
The doctor ability is what is potentially helpful. This feels like grasping at straws.
If you really want evidence on how terrible this kind of reasoning is, lynch me and observe "Doctor".
I'm trying to get you lynched.
And I'm saying, prepare to feel bad if you're successful.
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But if scum doesn't have Strongman, they have to either kill ADK or narrow down the lynch pool. Doctor could end up being very helpful.
Don't you mean scum has to kill you? If scum doesn't have strongman I'm protected tonight. Because you're a doctor, right?
I was avoiding stating exactly what I will do and how I think the actions will go down.
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Here's the thing: we're not in quickhammer territory, but at this point I think if scum was someone other than WW or sudgy, they would have made up an excuse to switch and hammer. So basically this is lynch one today, lynch the other tomorrow. And if WW isn't a doctor, I'm probably dead tonight anyway. Even if I'm alive tomorrow, WW will probably be my top lynch choice.
vote: WW
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now be a good boy and flip scum please
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Was that a hammer?
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Yes.
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Do we not want to do the winning thing any more?
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If you're town, I apologize, but take it as a testament to your skill as scum player that it's not implausible that you're scum here.
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (4) : sudgy, ashersky, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel
sudgy (2): Hydrad, Witherweaver
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Witherweaver has been lynched. He was Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, the Town Doctor !
Night 1 will last 48 hours, but night action deadline is in 24 hours, through PM to 2.7/me, or QT.
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Oh, and THREAD LOCKED obviously.
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flavor flavor flavor. Might add it later.
A Drowned Kernel died during the night! He was A 5th grade Christmas Play, the Town Universal Backup.
The Fifth Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, sudgy, Hydrad, Ashersky
With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 5 will be Friday, January 30 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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vote: no lynch
Only real choice here.
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What happens if scum decides to not shoot also?
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Mod decision. Generally you force one side to act. Usually based on who goes first? Dunno.
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Vote: no lynch
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Vote Count 5.1
No Lynch (2): ashersky, sudgy
Not Voting (2): silverspawn, Hydrad
With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 5 will be Friday, January 30 at 6:30 pm forum time.
-
Mod what happens if a no lynch and a no kill scenario happens?
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I'm fine with no lynching by the way. I just wanna see what happens before we end the day instantly.
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Well, one of us, probably me, is going to die in the next night, so I think some final words are in order before we hammer no-lynch?
I think it's Hydrad > ash > sudgy for the last scum. Maybe everyone could make this list.
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sudgy > silver > ash
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sudgy >= hydrad > silver
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Hydrad >> ash > silver
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alright
vote: nolynch
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well that was a fun day.
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Final Vote Count
No Lynch (3): ashersky, sudgy, silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Hydrad
Everyone loved the cake! They were too busy enjoying it that they forgot to de-transmogrify someone today....
THREAD LOCKED!!
Get me your night actions please, so we can wrap things up! Like a present. Has to be neatly wrapped up and packaged well.
Mod what happens if a no lynch and a no kill scenario happens?
We play another day. And if you guys repeat the same process and another no-lynch, no-kill occurs; the people trying to sabotage the party were obviously ok with things the way they are and will have a change of heart and confess to everyone who they are. The saboteur will then volunteer to de-transmogrify in hopes that he won't be shriveled up. Judging by from past experience with the de-transmogrifier, that won't go too well for him. (to make things abundantly clear, scum lose.)
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flavor flavor flavor. Might add it later.
Ashersky died during the night! He was Saint Nicholas, the Town 1-shot Cop.
The Sixth Day of Planning for the f.ds Holiday Party has Begun!
Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 6.0
Not Voting (3): silverspawn, sudgy, Hydrad
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 5 will be Sunday, February 1 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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Ah I was worried about this :/.
Now I have to find a way to convince you guys I'm not scum.
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I'll have to do it when I wake up though.
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Oh, okay. I'm alive. Everyone agrees that I'm not scum? Good. Now I just have to find out which of you is the bad guy. That of course asks for detailed rereads, but first I'll do a quick analysis of motivation based on our lists.
silver's list:
Hydrad > ash > sudgy
sudgy's list:
Hydrad >> ash > silver
ash's list:
sudgy >= hydrad > silver
Hydrad's list:
sudgy > silver > ash
Scenario 1: Hydrad is scum. That makes ash the least logical target, because sudgy and me both had him as our top scum read, and ash was the only one who had sudgy before him
Scenario 2: sudgy is scum. That makes ash the best target, because he's first on ash's list and last on Hydrad's and mine.
Well, so that clearly points to sudgy. Of course that's all WIFOM, so I won't give it too much weight. Still, something to keep in mind.
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So, this really comes down to a test how good I can read Hydrad. time to dig out my stats.
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I've been rereading this game again and I think I'm about 80% for sudgy right now. I'm still kinda worried as there was the game a bit ago (I think new mafia) where SS tricked me and I didn't notice until it was to late.
So I'm just going to hope if SS is town that he can read me correctly this game.
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Here is where I think sudgy is scummy.
Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
This is when we first started the awaclus lynch and looks like hes trying to save him.
I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
Then it feels like he realizes his partner is going down so he slowly starts moving towards being on the lynching side.
I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday. When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.
This was before WW hammered.
Overall this looks much scummier then SS so ya I think I can trust you this game SS.
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I am town because:
1. I was the main supporter of the Joseph lynch. I don't see how you can't read D1 without seeing that he wouldn't have been lynched without me.
2. I would have lynched Awaclus. I realize that this can look pretty scummy because I never did help lynch him, but I still think it's a point towards my being town.
3. I didn't care about being lynched D4. I was pretty confident that the last scum would be found if I was lynched. If I was scum, I would have been fighting tooth and nail against my lynch (more what I am doing now). Now that I would lose being lynched now I have more of a reason to defend myself.
I will reread later to say why (probably) Hydrad is the last mafia.
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Also, I don't know how helpful this is, but I have been mislynched several times before at LyLo.
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puh. reread hydrad, but that wasn't as informative as I was hoping. He has posted several things that I don't really see him posting as scum, and he did jump on the two scum wagons pretty early, so I'm leaning towards town.
I'll do a compilation and look at stats in a second
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Oh right, and his interactions don't look good, that was the bad part. He has little interaction with both of them, although to be fair he doesn't have that much interaction period, he often just posts general things about the game (which is not specific to this game). Still, his Awaclus / Joseph interaction is below average. I'm not sure how much that still means; good scum will try to have interactions, but still I'd say it's not good.
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The two main things that I don't think are in character for scum!Hydrad... first this post
If there are any doctors, please come forward.
uh lets not
He has never referenced it in any way; he seems to be completely unaware of it. I mean it's possible he just was in an "I'm town" mindset, and posted it without thinking much, but wouldn't scum rather go "okay... let's see if anyone claims, that would be great."
It's sort of a win-win thing if you're scum; if you say something it might make you look better, if you don't there's a chance people claim (and you won't look suspicious). I think scum!Hydrad at least might have not posted that, whereas town!Hydrad would definitely post it.
The second one was how he unvoted WW shortly before his hammer and went "actually, I can't decide between WW and sudgy." If you did that as scum, well done.
I'll reread a scum game from him later - I think there is just one where I was in, and if I remember correctly, he had no post were I went "scum hydrad wouldn't post that".
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finished the compilation... I don't think there is any reason to post it though
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Stats are:
Number of Posts: 49
Average Length: 134
Votes: 6
Unvotes: 2
134 (length is number of letters without quoted parts of other players) is super short. By far the shortest he's had yet. In fish mafia, he had 263, that's almost twice as long.
6 votes is also not much at all (I almost thought my program messed up there, but I counted them with ctrl + f, and it really seems to be just 6).
Generally, these are both rather scummy things; for hydrad, I think they're town tells. I think he tries more to have content n stuff if he's scum.
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Yeah, the game was musical mafia. I'll have to reread + compilate that, and look if i get a similar or a different vibe from him.
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And that's the only one.
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halfway through my reread of musical... I really hope I'm not imagining that, because I know he's scum there, but he feels really different. Like, "look, I'm participating, look, I'm making cases" - that's the kind of vibe I get from him. I didn't get that from him at all this game.
It's hard though, because the way I think Hydrad approaches games is that he is just kind of passive-ish and friendly as town, and pretty much like that too as scum. He doesn't change his mentality much, and that way his style is also rather similar.
Still, I reads insincere there. And, nothing out of character in that game.
Also, lots of smileys and !'s
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another note: lots of comments about how people perceive him/his meta in that game, and none here.
also a lot of comments about game unrelated things, but I think that's normal for him.
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lots of comments about how people perceive him...
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Yeah, man, he's different. This actually makes me feel much more confident about this game. If I am really tricked this game I can't even be mad at myself. Hopefully.
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finished... I wanted to pay attention to his interaction with scum buddies too. I forgot. Meh.
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Gosh, that took long. alright, now I have to remove the quotes...
by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?
also, why did you kill me so early in that game?
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Musical Mafia Stats:
Number of Posts: 96
Average Length: 167
Votes: 8
Unvotes: 0
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was it really only 167? His posts felt long. that makes his fish mafia length look pretty huge.
I also looked at the people he quoted, and he does have a fair bit of interaction with his scum partners (based on that alone). Most of that was WW pressuring him and him responding, but still, I feel like that nullifies the argument for this game.
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Let's also look at the amount of posts relative to the game size. Let me put the stats together again...
Holiday:
Number of Posts: 49
Average Length: 134
Votes: 6
Unvotes: 2
Musical:
Number of Posts: 96
Average Length: 167
Votes: 8
Unvotes: 0
Here, we have 40 pages, 12 players and 49 posts. that's ~1,2 posts per page with 12 players
Musical had 51 pages, 13 players and 96 posts. that's ~1,9 posts per page with 13 players.
Yeah, that's almost twice the activity.
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So... I think that's about all I have to say for Hydrad. Conclusion: I think he's town. I'll do sudgy too, but I'm pretty confident now.
sudgy, you are free to argue why I'm wrong, if you have anything to say about hydrad. If not I'll have to see how your reread goes.
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Alright, starting my reread. I am pretty sure silverspawn is town, because I had a townread on him for a while, and I think scum doesn't care as much trying to find scum as he is today.
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Just reread silverspawn, I am not voting him today. I am going to Vote: Hydrad because I've seen enough to be certain enough about it. Silverspawn, if you're scum, gg, but I don't think so.
Now, I'm going to build a case on Hydrad. But first, silver, here's a few posts where you say I'm town just to remind you what you've been thinking about me (all more recent because you didn't say much about me at first) (also, I know it's weird to quote you to you, but I've been surprised by how much I've gotten reminded of my own posts from rereading, so here goes):
short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town
so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.
As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it. But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.
We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason. I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.
well you're wrong, because I'm town and I don't think sudgy is scum.
The statement is pretty ridiculous too, because sudgy was pushing both scum before they died. Why should I be more confident about him than I am about you?
[long post arguing pro joseph lynch]
Joseph, do you realize that we probably won't get your shot if you aren't lynched, and we will get your shot if you are lynched?
I still think we should lynch Joseph. If he's scum, we lynch scum. If he's town, we save his shot. Even if you think he's town (I don't) you should see that his lynch is good.
Hey ash, I don't think silverspawn is happening, and you seem to be fine with Joseph. Join us!
Day 2:
I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday. When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.
So... how is Hydrad better than sudgy?
Well, one of us, probably me, is going to die in the next night, so I think some final words are in order before we hammer no-lynch?
I think it's Hydrad > ash > sudgy for the last scum. Maybe everyone could make this list.
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Alright, for starters, here's what I had posted before:
yay for stuff happening!
I like Vote: Joseph after rereading the past page.
Also silver when do you plan on actually voting :P
I'm missing how everyone is saying chairs is scummy. Feels more like chairs is just kinda having fun this game. Which is easier to do as town then as scum in my opinion.
This is when Joseph is not getting lynched. It's a perfect way to distance yourself if nothing comes of this, but then this happens later:
oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!
I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.
unvote for now.
Not only does he unvote his partner, he still says he thinks they're scum but doesn't want to lynch him.
Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.
Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?
What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.
If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.
Interesting I didn't think of that.
In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor is lynching him maybe the correct move? Hes already outed so him living till tomorrow isn't very likely unless we have a doctor in the game so his 1 shot isn't really useful at all. But if we lynch him then our UB should at least be able to use that 1 shot well.
Still saying to lynch Joseph, but not actually doing anything about it.
Vote: Joseph
This is when Joseph is back to one vote. Yay, more voting when he won't get lynched!
To get a lynch through I'll also vote for egork. I think hes kinda scummy anyways
As I said before, "Let's not lynch my partner!"
Leaving for about 1 hour. should be back before deadline. If something happens and Joseph gets to live I should be around to get a lynch through. But I still like Joseph the most right now.
This could be town or it could be scum realizing Joseph is getting lynched and deciding to just stick with it for towncred (or hoping deadline passes). In the end, this doesn't say anything.
Vote: awaclus
sounds good to me
Here again it's obvious that Awaclus isn't getting lynched, so it's fine to vote for him too. It's almost the exact same thing as he did with Joseph.
I agree lets wait a moment before we lynch people today.
"Yeah we just had quickhammers let's not lynch him yet so we can switch to someone else"
I'm also fine with a Vote: sudgy
I still think this vote was scummy...
Ah I was worried about this :/.
Now I have to find a way to convince you guys I'm not scum.
Because that's all scum cares about.
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tl;dr Hydrads voting patterns for Joseph and Awaclus were scummy and the same for both of them.
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I completely forgot to defend myself from this post:
Here is where I think sudgy is scummy.
Why would mafia kill all of the off wagon people? Maybe they were on and are trying to make Awaclus seem scummy.
This is when we first started the awaclus lynch and looks like hes trying to save him.
I actually think the way Awaclus has been acting with all these votes is scummy.
Then it feels like he realizes his partner is going down so he slowly starts moving towards being on the lynching side.
I actually am warming up to an Awaclus lynch more and more, but I don't want the day to end as soon as yesterday. When the time comes if nobody's changed, I'll be glad to hammer.
This was before WW hammered.
Overall this looks much scummier then SS so ya I think I can trust you this game SS.
This is an incredibly weak case, based on one small interaction when my case against you is way larger and based on multiple things. I agree that this could seem scummy, but it can also come from town too. I think scum actually would be against lynching their second partner, and definitely not being against it at first and switching.
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Reply to silverspawn's saying Hydrad is town:
The two main things that I don't think are in character for scum!Hydrad... first this post
If there are any doctors, please come forward.
uh lets not
He has never referenced it in any way; he seems to be completely unaware of it. I mean it's possible he just was in an "I'm town" mindset, and posted it without thinking much, but wouldn't scum rather go "okay... let's see if anyone claims, that would be great."
It's sort of a win-win thing if you're scum; if you say something it might make you look better, if you don't there's a chance people claim (and you won't look suspicious). I think scum!Hydrad at least might have not posted that, whereas town!Hydrad would definitely post it.
This has absolutely no alignment tell. Nobody had claimed, nobody will claim, and everyone knows. Hydrad's post is completely useless in all regards here.
The second one was how he unvoted WW shortly before his hammer and went "actually, I can't decide between WW and sudgy." If you did that as scum, well done.
I agree that that was more of a towny thing to do, but think of all of the reasons I'm town. I'm certain they far outweigh this post.
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with my vote on Joseph though I disagree with you there. Even if it was near the beginning of the wagon when I voted him I think that was a key time on who could get lynched that day and to get the wagon started.
You also say that i'm saying to lynch Joseph and not actually doing anything about it. If you notice within one hour of that post I voted Joseph.
So your saying I'm scummy for saying lynch Joseph but not doing anything about it and then you call me scummy when I vote for him? That doesn't seem fair.
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Vote: Sudgy also.
If you tricked me again SS good on you. I'm a bit nervous that sudgy already voted me and you could hammer but I guess that just means I don't have to make the choice anymore.
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by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?
also, why did you kill me so early in that game?
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yeah, you're right, I did think you're towny for most of the game. The reason I currently think you're scum is so far only based on the fact that I think Hydrad is town and a little bit on the last NK
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Oh, and by the way, I'm an IC now, because as scum I could have hammered either of you and won the game.
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I completely forgot to defend myself from this post:
This is an incredibly weak case, based on one small interaction when my case against you is way larger and based on multiple things. I agree that this could seem scummy, but it can also come from town too. I think scum actually would be against lynching their second partner, and definitely not being against it at first and switching.
well, yeah, I agree that it's a weak case.
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by the way Hydrad: can you say a few things about how you felt during musical mafia? which things were memorable? do you think the "kill-list" was a scum slip?
also, why did you kill me so early in that game?
Oh sorry I didn't see that part of the post.
No kill list definitely wasn't a scum slip. I was actually meaning who I wanted to kill in order of lynches.
And the kill on you was kinda decided by teproc and WW and I just went along with it.
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also yay. at least if you pick me I know that I have picked right and didn't get tricked by you again.
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if you're town, yes.
@sudgy: why do you think Hydrad NK'd ash? just for WIFOM?
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Do you think WIFOM is enough for that? If I was scum why would I keep alive the two people that have me both at the top of each others scum lists and each other and the most towny side.
That just sounds like a death wish honestly.
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VOTE COUNT:
Hydrad (1): Sudgy
Sudgy (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (1): silverspawn
It takes two to lynch!
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if you're town, yes.
@sudgy: why do you think Hydrad NK'd ash? just for WIFOM?
Probably. Things looked pretty bad for him with our reads lists, so he had to try something.
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Vote Count 6.2
Hydrad (1): sudgy
sudgy (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (1): silverspawn
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
The deadline for Day 5 will be Sunday, February 1 at 6:30 pm forum time.
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when the day arrives
it's decision time
which way will I turn
will I ever really learn
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alright, now looking at sudgy
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Stuff that he did
-> RVS votes a lot, but not on one of his supposed partners
-> Then goes VLA
-> first real post is a case on Joseph
-> stays on joseph for the rest of the day
well, he makes a case on his one of the scum in this game and stays on it.
pretty much confirms this:
1. I was the main supporter of the Joseph lynch. I don't see how you can't read D1 without seeing that he wouldn't have been lynched without me.
Day 2 you votes for Seprix who gets quickhammered by ADK. no scum points for that, seprix play was insanity. and that's all.
Early in Day 3, he starts pushing Awaclus.
Then day 3 ends. he has like 20 posts total so far.
Puh.... this is really bad. based on wagons in this game, hydrad makes a way better scum than sudgy does. but my feeling towards hydrad is that he is town.
I'm almost back to 50%/50%. I don't want to lynch either. Lynching hydrad means ignoring my whole meta read; but lynching sudgy means lynching someone who was on both wagons early on. it's both bad.
I guess summary for town!sudgy narrative
+++++ wagons
+++ makes a lot of sense whenever he posts
-- semi lurking
- ADK found him scummy... athough I don't know why
- ash also found him scummy.
---- I strongly feel town!Hydrad
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I almost want to lynch hydrad, because I feel like if I mislynch sudgy I'm being completely irresponsible, whereas if I mislynch Hydrad, it's just good play from sudgy.
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Let's see what else you said
2. I would have lynched Awaclus. I realize that this can look pretty scummy because I never did help lynch him, but I still think it's a point towards my being town.
this is true
I didn't care about being lynched D4. I was pretty confident that the last scum would be found if I was lynched. If I was scum, I would have been fighting tooth and nail against my lynch (more what I am doing now). Now that I would lose being lynched now I have more of a reason to defend myself.
well, more or less, I wouldn't say that you didn't care, but I agree that your behavior was not scummy.
I will reread later to say why (probably) Hydrad is the last mafia.
[/quote]
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I'll also give another look at your case vs hydrad
...
yeah, that's a pretty good case. although hydrad does this kind of stuff as town. but based on your case vs his alone, lynching you seems crazy.
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what I don't get is why ash and ADK thought you were scummy. Knowing that might help. I'll check if anyone made a case on you at some point.
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Nope, there's no real case against you. the closest thing are a few lines from WW, but I don't really think WW was on point this game.
I'm leaning towards Hydrad now. I just can't ignore how much better you look in the context of this game. I still really want my feelings about hydrad to be accurate, but I can't overvalue them just because I want them to be correct. He does feel very different than he did in his scum game, but I know that I also played very differently in my first and second scum game
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Why does sudgy get so many points for wagons? I was on Joseph before him and stayed on him. Plus I was on awaclus.
His switching to saying that he wants to vote awaclus could easily be scum seeing that he can't save his partner so he tries to get town cred.
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Hmm I'm going to try and find other things to see if I can convince you. We are so close!
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Why does sudgy get so many points for wagons? I was on Joseph before him and stayed on him. Plus I was on awaclus.
His switching to saying that he wants to vote awaclus could easily be scum seeing that he can't save his partner so he tries to get town cred.
because this is possible every time someone stays on a wagon. if you don't give town points based on that, you can never give town points.
and you had several posts that are more or less deflecting from scum wagons, see sudgy's case.
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something I'm curious about though: how often have you played as scum total? I know you started playing before me, so there may be games I wasn't in.
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something I'm curious about though: how often have you played as scum total? I know you started playing before me, so there may be games I wasn't in.
You've seen all my scum games. If I remember correctly I have 1 win and 1 lose as scum.
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something I'm curious about though: how often have you played as scum total? I know you started playing before me, so there may be games I wasn't in.
You've seen all my scum games. If I remember correctly I have 1 win and 1 lose as scum.
I only remember musical mafia. which is the other one?
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Silo mafia.
Where I think you were a big part of lynching me.
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wasn't that the one where I claimed VT?
right... I remember that game. Let me look over that too.
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gah it has 90 pages
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gah it has 90 pages
I die on day 2 if that helps.
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That game WW also instantly voted me from like day 1 and knew I was scum somehow. So I guess if you can you could trust him as he seemed to read me like a open book and in this game has a town read on me.
I'm sorry I'm running out of ideas on how to show you I'm town here.
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That game WW also instantly voted me from like day 1 and knew I was scum somehow. So I guess if you can you could trust him as he seemed to read me like a open book and in this game has a town read on me.
I'm sorry I'm running out of ideas on how to show you I'm town here.
you could try to make a better case on sudgy
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No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
But town doesn't typically have to worry too much about looking town as scum does, because 1) they really are town so any arguments against them would be false anyway 2) even if they get lynched, it doesn't hurt town as much as lynching scum hurts scum. Is there any particular reason why you don't want to lynch Joseph?
I as town worry about what I say. I stopped bringing attention to it because people always got mad at me for it :/ Anyway, I don't think it's an alignment tell, especially for newbies.
Now that I've caught up with everything, Vote: Joseph. I had a townread on him, but the way he said his claim was extremely scummy. I don't know why chairs was dropped and still don't see him too towny, but I like this better.
If we lynch Joseph:
If he's scum: Yay!
If he's town: UB inherits his role, and we get a cop result still (small chance of no UB, but Masons aren't claiming, so I don't think they're here). Not the worst thing.
If we don't:
If he's scum: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We might trust an incorrect result, and leave a scum running rampant. Very bad.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We don't know anything, and leave a scum running rampant. Bad.
If he's town:
If he is killed, we lose our cop shot. Very very bad.
If not: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: We know his result is correct, and his lynch itself is a VT lynch. It's still alright.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: VT lynch.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
In the end, I like lynching today better. There are too many bad things that can happen if we don't lynch him.
So this is where he jumps on Joseph. One thing about this case is that faust had already pointed out some of these things earlier so it could be sudgy realized the Joseph might be going down and would make this case to get a bunch of town credit.
Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Jumping on a easy mislynch and making sure it goes through.
Then we have the awaclus part which I still think is big. At that point scum would almost never want to lose there second member that early so it really feels like he tries to dissuade the wagon until he realizes that awaclus is going down and then tries to get the cred for saying he was ok with the lynch.
Then in the next few days everyone who thinks sudgy is the scummiest ends up dying and is left with SS alive as the only person who really seems to believe in sudgy.
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No it's not. If you're town, you want to look town. If you're scum, you still want to look town. That's not a tell. There's no tell that 100% works. You're all just shooting in the dark. So please, if we have to lynch someone, let's lynch someone we all think is scum, and not just guess.
But town doesn't typically have to worry too much about looking town as scum does, because 1) they really are town so any arguments against them would be false anyway 2) even if they get lynched, it doesn't hurt town as much as lynching scum hurts scum. Is there any particular reason why you don't want to lynch Joseph?
I as town worry about what I say. I stopped bringing attention to it because people always got mad at me for it :/ Anyway, I don't think it's an alignment tell, especially for newbies.
Now that I've caught up with everything, Vote: Joseph. I had a townread on him, but the way he said his claim was extremely scummy. I don't know why chairs was dropped and still don't see him too towny, but I like this better.
If we lynch Joseph:
If he's scum: Yay!
If he's town: UB inherits his role, and we get a cop result still (small chance of no UB, but Masons aren't claiming, so I don't think they're here). Not the worst thing.
If we don't:
If he's scum: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We might trust an incorrect result, and leave a scum running rampant. Very bad.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: Yay!
If we don't: We don't know anything, and leave a scum running rampant. Bad.
If he's town:
If he is killed, we lose our cop shot. Very very bad.
If not: He either claims a result tomorrow, or no
If he claims:
If we lynch him: We know his result is correct, and his lynch itself is a VT lynch. It's still alright.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
If he claims no result:
If we lynch him: VT lynch.
If we don't: We don't know anything.
In the end, I like lynching today better. There are too many bad things that can happen if we don't lynch him.
So this is where he jumps on Joseph. One thing about this case is that faust had already pointed out some of these things earlier so it could be sudgy realized the Joseph might be going down and would make this case to get a bunch of town credit.
I had already made this case before, and people weren't getting it. I tried to spell it out as best I could.
Vote: Seprix as well.
Huge town points to silverspawn for hammering when he could have just let it slip by him "unnoticed".
Jumping on a easy mislynch and making sure it goes through.
Everyone agreed that he was being really scummy. Town can do the same thing.
Then we have the awaclus part which I still think is big. At that point scum would almost never want to lose there second member that early so it really feels like he tries to dissuade the wagon until he realizes that awaclus is going down and then tries to get the cred for saying he was ok with the lynch.
We've already talked about this before, I don't see it scummy but you do, so that's just a disagreement and SS needs to make a choice of his own.
Then in the next few days everyone who thinks sudgy is the scummiest ends up dying and is left with SS alive as the only person who really seems to believe in sudgy.
This point stands, but it could be people (you) trying to make me seem scummiest by killing them.
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I can't think of anything else to say to try to convince you other than AtE, so I won't say anything else unless it's directed at me or about me.
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I can't think of anything else to say to try to convince you other than AtE, so I won't say anything else unless it's directed at me or about me.
you can tell me for how long you've played mafia, and how good your reads usually are.
If you're town this game, you're right about 3/4 of your "hits". that'd be crazy accurate.
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I have played mafia on here for almost two years. I did have a time or two where I wasn't playing that much though. I have no idea how good my reads are, sometimes I'm spot on, and sometimes I'm not (embarrassingly so). Looking at my record on the one thread I have lynched correctly 5 times and mislynched (as town) 5 times. But I have only won 2 out of 8 games. That's not all of the games I've played, but it might be a good estimate of what it is completely.
And what do you mean 3/4? I was voting for both Seprix and Witherweaver, making it 3/5, which is pretty close to the 1/2 I've had in the past.
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I have played mafia on here for almost two years. I did have a time or two where I wasn't playing that much though. I have no idea how good my reads are, sometimes I'm spot on, and sometimes I'm not (embarrassingly so). Looking at my record on the one thread I have lynched correctly 5 times and mislynched (as town) 5 times. But I have only won 2 out of 8 games. That's not all of the games I've played, but it might be a good estimate of what it is completely.
And what do you mean 3/4? I was voting for both Seprix and Witherweaver, making it 3/5, which is pretty close to the 1/2 I've had in the past.
right, I forgot about WW.
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Dang this is looking bad.
Do you have any more questions for me SS I'd be happy to answer.
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well, vote: Hydred
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well GG I guess. Nice one sudgy.
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YYEESS!!!!!! *high fives silverspawn*
I think this might be the first time I've won at LyLo...
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well GG I guess. Nice one sudgy.
What? You're the mafia. I'm not. Unless silverspawn was being the ultimate troll, you're the mafia.
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And by the ultimate troll, I mean the most annoying troll ever.
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well GG I guess. Nice one sudgy.
What? You're the mafia. I'm not. Unless silverspawn was being the ultimate troll, you're the mafia.
That would be weird if he did that.
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
I'll certainly hope not, because obviously I was faking it on purpose
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well GG I guess. Nice one sudgy.
What? You're the mafia. I'm not. Unless silverspawn was being the ultimate troll, you're the mafia.
That would be weird if he did that.
Exactly. So you're the mafia.
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Your reactions are worth a lot though, I don't think you were faking it.
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I kind of can't believe this worked three times in a row :)
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
I'll certainly hope not, because obviously I was faking it on purpose
Does this mean I'm going to just get lynched again?
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
I'll certainly hope not, because obviously I was faking it on purpose
I think I would say it was a legitimate vote if I was modding.
Keep in mind, Hydrad probably saw that and was trying to confuse you by acting like he thought it was right.
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
I'll certainly hope not, because obviously I was faking it on purpose
Does this mean I'm going to just get lynched again?
well, probably, unless you want to tell me that sudgy faked his reaction?
Your reaction doesn't actually indicate that you're town. you just said "nice one sudgy", that also makes sense if he's town.
at the same time though, I expected both of you to realize that it was a fake vote, so I'm not sure if I buy that neither of you did.
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Wait...
well, vote: Hydred
Mod, this vote counts, even though it says "Hydred", right?
I'll certainly hope not, because obviously I was faking it on purpose
Does this mean I'm going to just get lynched again?
well, probably, unless you want to tell me that sudgy faked his reaction?
Your reaction doesn't actually indicate that you're town. you just said "nice one sudgy", that also makes sense if he's town.
at the same time though, I expected both of you to realize that it was a fake vote, so I'm not sure if I buy that neither of you did.
I'm pretty sure Hydrad noticed.
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I'm pretty sure Hydrad noticed.
okay - why? If he did, wouldn't he post something more like, well, what you posted? instead of something that could actually come from scum.
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I mean:
well GG I guess. Nice one sudgy.
does this really have to be defeated!town!Hydrad? The way I see it, it could totally be defeated!anything!Hydrad.
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I'm pretty sure Hydrad noticed.
okay - why? If he did, wouldn't he post something more like, well, what you posted? instead of something that could actually come from scum.
Hydrad noticed you misspelled his name and faked a town reaction.
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Well, keep in mind that I know Hydrad is scum, so that's how I've been saying everything.
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I'm pretty sure Hydrad noticed.
okay - why? If he did, wouldn't he post something more like, well, what you posted? instead of something that could actually come from scum.
Hydrad noticed you misspelled his name and faked a town reaction.
but it's not a town reaction. that's my whole point. It's a reaction that can come from either alignment
Well, keep in mind that I know Hydrad is scum, so that's how I've been saying everything.
I don't follow. I think we're talking around each other.
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and @Hydrad, it doesn't exactly make me feel better about you if you disappear now and think about what you want to say. I want spontaneous reactions.
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I think it's a town reaction because it wouldn't be just me that he should say gg to if it was a scum reaction.
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I think it's a town reaction because it wouldn't be just me that he should say gg to if it was a scum reaction.
I see
you know what?
vote: Hydrad
I don't believe your reaction was fabricated, and if it is, you really deserve to win this.
Now... are you town? please?
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and @Hydrad, it doesn't exactly make me feel better about you if you disappear now and think about what you want to say. I want spontaneous reactions.
Ya I honestly don't even know what to say about this now. I think the situation has just worsened through your fake vote and I'm not sure how I can turn it around
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you got meh D:
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YES!!!
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I wanted a MVP dang it.
Ya I noticed but held back on a super towny reaction in the case that it was a serious vote
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So, I actually did notice it was a fake vote but faked an uber-town reaction as town hoping you would realize even more that I was town...
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I think I had it though if sudgy wasn't around to give his reaction.
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So, I actually did notice it was a fake vote but faked an uber-town reaction as town hoping you would realize even more that I was town...
wow, well done. that felt super genuine.
I wanted a MVP dang it.
Ya I noticed but held back on a super towny reaction in the case that it was a serious vote
that sucks. mh.
I feel a little bit bad about doing it, but the last two times that I did, no-one said anything about it not being fair play or something (and there's nothing against it in the rules), so it has to be legit.
And I really wanted to try everything I could.
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So, I actually did notice it was a fake vote but faked an uber-town reaction as town hoping you would realize even more that I was town...
wow, well done. that felt super genuine.
Well, it's what I would have done had it been a real vote.
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And I was hoping it would still count anyway.
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So, I actually did notice it was a fake vote but faked an uber-town reaction as town hoping you would realize even more that I was town...
wow, well done. that felt super genuine.
I wanted a MVP dang it.
Ya I noticed but held back on a super towny reaction in the case that it was a serious vote
that sucks. mh.
I feel a little bit bad about doing it, but the last two times that I did, no-one said anything about it not being fair play or something (and there's nothing against it in the rules), so it has to be legit.
And I really wanted to try everything I could.
No problem. I think even without that I was going down. It just kinda solidified it.
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so, *high five*
And I was hoping it would still count anyway.
well, maybe it did? but I don't think so. I did all sorts of fake votes during the first day of this game, and none of them counted. I think the mods are very strict about that.
I definitely wouldn't count it.
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so, *high five*
And I was hoping it would still count anyway.
well, maybe it did? but I don't think so. I did all sorts of fake votes during the first day of this game, and none of them counted. I think the mods are very strict about that.
I definitely wouldn't count it.
To be fair your other votes were with 2 peoples names combined so they wouldn't know who the vote would be on. With mine it was just a letter off and still obviously a vote for me.
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To be fair your other votes were with 2 peoples names combined so they wouldn't know who the vote would be on. With mine it was just a letter off and still obviously a vote for me.
right, but I also did votes with correct spelling that just weren't bold, they didn't count either. is that really more than a letter?
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This game was looking so good for me too! I just needed SS to be a UB or something so killing him wouldn't look weird and my lynch sudgy plan would be succesful.
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To be fair your other votes were with 2 peoples names combined so they wouldn't know who the vote would be on. With mine it was just a letter off and still obviously a vote for me.
right, but I also did votes with correct spelling that just weren't bold, they didn't count either. is that really more than a letter?
Ya I think it would depend on the mod. I know Jimmm wouldn't count that vote as in dice mafia he was very specific. But other mods would probably accept it completly fine. So who knows what e would of counted.
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The thing is, with votes, it says that obvious nicknames count. Nobody ever calls Hydrad Hydred, but that still has a reason to be accepted. Non-bolded votes have never been counted. When I'm doing vote counts, I don't even look at anything that isn't bolded.
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This game was looking so good for me too! I just needed SS to be a UB or something so killing him wouldn't look weird and my lynch sudgy plan would be succesful.
why did you kill ash?
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The thing is, with votes, it says that obvious nicknames count. Nobody ever calls Hydrad Hydred, but that still has a reason to be accepted. Non-bolded votes have never been counted. When I'm doing vote counts, I don't even look at anything that isn't bolded.
mh, that's true. well, I did decide to fake his lynch rather than yours - I was actually about to do that - because I was leaning towards scum!hydrad already. I guess that was a good choice.
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This game was looking so good for me too! I just needed SS to be a UB or something so killing him wouldn't look weird and my lynch sudgy plan would be succesful.
why did you kill ash?
I left a commentary of the past few days in the scum QT that talks about that decision.
But my thought was ash thought me and sudgy were equal. So why would sudgy ever kill SS. I figured that ash would obviously notice that and would lynch me instead. So I tried this way instead.
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I wanna see the speccy and see how many people were with my lynch sudgy plan.
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yeah, I'm also really curious about speccy & mafia QT
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THREAD LOCKED
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Day 6 Final Vote Count
Hydrad (2): sudgy, silverspawn
sudgy (1): Hydrad
With 3 alive it took 2 to lynch.
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Hydrad has been lynched. He was The Grinch, The 1-shot Mafia Strongman !
TOWN WINS !
Mafia QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/dsNyTQ42Anxh
Speccy : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/y7NG2u7BYiBg
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Oops. Sorry for the aggressive formatting guys,can't fix it because I'm not an actual mod.
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Thread unlocked and all that.
Major props to silverspawn for putting in the effort.
FWIW, that vote would have definitely counted in my book. Your early votes didn't count because it wasn't clear who you were referring too, here it was very clear. I would have locked the thread and let 2.7 decide though.
And still, nicely done Hydrad, almost got there and did the impossible ! As I noted in the mod QT, this would have been the first time scum won after losing someone on day 1 in a normal game on f.ds.
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Great work Silverspawn.
I'll proudly take my LVP town award for this game.
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Great work Silverspawn.
I'll proudly take my LVP town award for this game.
Man, your reads were so wrong every step of the way, it was almost comical. But hey, they can't all be the best town performance ever.
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And still, nicely done Hydrad, almost got there and did the impossible ! As I noted in the mod QT, this would have been the first time scum won after losing someone on day 1 in a normal game on f.ds.
Sorry to let you down, but Bankers (MXXII, was it?) had that happen.
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The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
So the formatting rules are strict, but as you can see nicknames are acceptable, if they're unambiguous. "Hydred" is unambiguous, there's no way you could mistake that for being sudgy, silverspawn or no lynch. SO I would have counted it.
As far as doing a fake vote to draw reactions in, that's totally fine as a strategy, I have nothing against it. It's a little cheesy, but if people fall for it, why not ?
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Posts 75, 77, 82, and 83 in the mafia qt were amazing.
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And still, nicely done Hydrad, almost got there and did the impossible ! As I noted in the mod QT, this would have been the first time scum won after losing someone on day 1 in a normal game on f.ds.
Sorry to let you down, but Bankers (MXXII, was it?) had that happen.
Really ? I though I had checked thoroughly. I could argue that it was barely a normal game, but we did count it that way, so yeah, you're right.
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I'm fine with fake voting as well, but it was a real vote in this case in my eyes.
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Great work Silverspawn.
I'll proudly take my LVP town award for this game.
Man, your reads were so wrong every step of the way, it was almost comical. But hey, they can't all be the best town performance ever.
Honestly it's probably ultimately better for my scum game.
I did manage to end up on two scum wagons, though.
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Great work Silverspawn.
I'll proudly take my LVP town award for this game.
Man, your reads were so wrong every step of the way, it was almost comical. But hey, they can't all be the best town performance ever.
Honestly it's probably ultimately better for my scum game.
I did manage to end up on two scum wagons, though.
It's all about the stats.
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Ya my reasoning though for keeping WW alive instead of hammering is that if WW lived he was most likely a instant mislynch. But if WW died It would be a much harder game as you can see.
It might of not paid off though as I didn't have a strongman shot anymore but I think I would of tried to kill SS if we got a sudgy lynch instead.
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This game has probably hurt my next few games. I double bus and still don't win! Now if I'm on scum people probably won't even give me much town points for it.
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I wanted a MVP dang it.
Ya I noticed but held back on a super towny reaction in the case that it was a serious vote
Huh? If it was a serious vote, then why would it have mattered?
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Posts 75, 77, 82, and 83 in the mafia qt were amazing.
+++
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MVP? Feels like a few good jobs...faust on D1, me on D3, SS at the end.
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I wanted a MVP dang it.
Ya I noticed but held back on a super towny reaction in the case that it was a serious vote
Huh? If it was a serious vote, then why would it have mattered?
because
I should of said something like "dang I get mislynched at mylo again I hate this feeling"
But was afraid of the fact that it was a serious vote and it might be really BM to do that. So I did the less towny response and did one that wouldn't hurt me if SS was being serious and the game was over.
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MVP? Feels like a few good jobs...faust on D1, me on D3, SS at the end.
Yeah, it was behind you and faust clearly before the last day... I would go for silverspawn here because things looked really dire and he went against his gut to make the right choice, which is hard to do in lylo situations.
2.7 is the one who gets final call though, obviously, I think all three choices are valid.
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between*
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I say Silver for LyLo diligence.
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From mod QT:
And everyone is seeing imaginary scumslips from WW. He IS saying they'll kill him when he says "narrowing the lynch pool down" !
Thank you, Teproc. Reason number 1294573210473897123498 why scumslip arguments are bad.
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Also the "doctor could be very helpful here" instead of "I could be very helpful here" thing. And, indeed, they didn't have a Strongman shot left~
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Also the "doctor could be very helpful here" instead of "I could be very helpful here" thing. And, indeed, they didn't have a Strongman shot left~
I've already explained why I didn't believe you. It happens anyway.
From reading the scum QT, it looks like it actually helped us, lynching you.
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Oh good, we won. And I was wrong about like everything.
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Congratulations Town! You found all the bad guys and successfully planned the Holiday Party! Everyone agreed that the party should go just as the Thanksgiving Pilgrims wanted.
The main course is to be turkey with some pumpkin pie for dessert (the Christmas Carolers favorite since they were around at the end as well). A location was slightly more difficult, as some people didn't have the air miles to travel to Switzerland, but the Thanksgiving Pilgrims were insistent. Everyone just has to be sure to bring plenty of Stuffed (as in taxidermy) Elves for the hero of the day.
silverspawn is MVP!
Teproc was an incredible co-mod, and I want to be sure to thank him for all of the vote counts and flips that he did.
Also thanks to all the players for making this a successful first adventure into modding.
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Yay we won! This was a lot harder than I figured it would be after D1. I'm kinda sad I didn't get the MVP but I agree that silver was the one facing the really difficult decision here.