Topic: Dominion: Gunpowder (Read 98742 times)

ErrinF · « **Reply #50 on:** July 05, 2014, 12:31:12 pm »

Okay, so Dominion Gunpowder is a finished product! I've converted it into a simple one page pdf that is now attached to this forum topic. I also have it available for reading/downloading at the following link:

http://issuu.com/rpggamebooklets/docs/dominion_gunpowder/0

I also posted it to the free RPG/Game online community I am part of:

http://www.1km1kt.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5992

Last but not least, I'll create a Twitter account to promote Dominion Gunpowder as well as link to the website where people can read/download the one page pdf I made for it. That way I can get this free Dominion expansion variant out there and into the hands of people who might want to play it. Thanks again for everybody's help here. Much appreciated. : )

ErrinF · « **Reply #51 on:** July 05, 2014, 12:53:41 pm »

There's no issue between us, KZ. You're a great guy and a great Dominion player. I've improved 300 to 400 points in pro rating in one day since playing you. Sorry you thought I was THAT inexperienced just because I was running a bunch of things by you.

And no, you had no deliberate agenda and are not out to get me or Dominion Gunpowder, but being that your view is what it is about my playing and my expansion, that is what it ended up being. My point is I just thought it was a game or two between us, and not something you were going to report back here about. Not that it really matters, but I wanted this to be a forum about Dominion Gunpowder, not about me. This thread you've followed since we played at Goko seems a tad too personal, and yes, rude, to me. But no hard feelings... you're not the first cool-yet-very-opinionated gamer I've met. All good.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go set up the Twitter account for Dominion Gunpowder so I can get it out there to people who might actually want to play it. Thanks again to KingZog3, Silverspawn, and the other Dominion fans here for their extremely useful constructive criticism during the creation period of Dominion Gunpowder. Have fun out there, and see you at Goko! : )

ErrinF · « **Reply #52 on:** July 05, 2014, 01:33:38 pm »

And the Twitter page for Dominion Gunpowder is now up:

https://twitter.com/DominionGnpowdr

I'll use the account to get the expansion out there and to find Dominion players on Twitter who might be interested in giving it a try. If anybody here has their own Dominion variant expansion, I recommend Twitter as an excellent way for promoting it. All my tweets will basically be links to the page where the Dominion Gunpowder pdf is available for reading/downloading, and the link is also provided on my Twitter page. I of course made sure to include wording in the pdf file and on its download page that all things Dominion are intellectual property of Donald X. Vaccarino and his publisher for Dominion, Rio Grande Games.

My work is done for now. True, it was a bit halfbaked when originally presented here, but it was crafted since then to become much more cohesive and playable. Such is the way of game design. In the end, it is the final result and what you do with it that matters. I know how to get my game out there and have used Twitter effectively to promote other free games of mine. We'll see how Dominion Gunpowder does when it is put out there on the web to freely and easily use. Perhaps now the no frills one page layout and quick play Alchemy replacement approach I chose makes more sense to those who weren't quite clear as to what I was aiming for by doing such. To me, accessibility and playability matter. While I can make (and have made) more polished, produced games with artwork, multiple pages, and such, I have gotten into the design of one page RPGs (often solo games rather than traditional group roleplaying) for their simplicity and ease. In this case, I decided to make a one page Dominion expansion. Should somebody want to make a print n play version of Dominion Gunpowder with it's own cards, that's on them... I'm sure they'll contact me via Twitter if so, and if they do, I'll say go for it. Until then (or if that never happens), I'm more than happy with Dominion Gunpowder as is. : )

ErrinF · « **Reply #53 on:** July 05, 2014, 03:53:27 pm »

There was one thematic loose end I wanted to tie up on Dominion Gunpowder...

The words Musketeer and Grenadier are a little anachronistic for the Medieval time period Dominion is based in, but there were crude predecessors to the musketeers and the grenadiers. The Musketeer card and the Grenadier card represent Medieval equivalents of the musketeers and grenadiers. As it were, China and the Ottoman Empire did have muskets and 'musketeers' in the 14th and 15th Century. Grenades were also being used in China going back to the Ming Dynasty (which was 14th/15th Century), most notably tossed over the Great Wall against enemies.

The word Factory could be considered a little anachronistic too, but there were Medieval versions of the factory back then, most notably the mill (which predates Medieval times but existed during them as well).

So, there may not have been many Musketeers, Grenadiers, and Factories in Medieval times, but neither were there any Golems, Familiars, or Scrying Pools. The musketeers, grenadiers, and factories in Dominion Gunpowder represent re-imagined Medieval versions thereof.

eHalcyon · « **Reply #54 on:** July 05, 2014, 07:49:26 pm »

While it is commendable that you updated cards based on feedback, you still don't seem to be absorbing it all. I'll refrain from repeating all that was said before, but I will try to get through to you on just one card -- Bomb.

Quote from: ErrinF on July 05, 2014, 12:21:50 pm

As for Bomb, yes, it is not all that powerful as I originally thought, but now it is super cheap and can still be useful here and there.

You are greatly underestimating the cost of Bomb. It costs one Gunpowder, but that single GP requires a buy and a shuffle before you can use it. This is huge, huge opportunity cost. For the amount of trashing that Bomb provides, it is simply not worth it. Bomb is expensive, not cheap, simply because of the cost of buying that GP and waiting for your deck to cycle to it.

If you want to make it at least somewhat viable, you either need to make the self-trashing optional (in which case it is about the same level as Transmute) or you need to let it trash more. This latter option would at least be thematic. If the single Bomb could trash any number of cards from your hand, THEN it would have enough impact that it may be worthwhile.

LastFootnote · « **Reply #55 on:** July 05, 2014, 07:53:29 pm »

Man, eHalcyon, can't you read? This expansion is done. It's a wrap! I for one am just thrilled that ErrinF chose to share it with us before it "went live", so to speak. This behind-the-scenes look was very exciting!

ErrinF · « **Reply #56 on:** July 06, 2014, 12:54:02 pm »

Wow, still obsessing with the Bomb. All it is is a cheap version of Island that helps create a small, efficient deck. All it takes is one buy and 4 coin to get 2 Gunpowder, then one buy and 2 gunpowder to get 2 Bombs. So it takes a few shuffles to get going. Same with Potion and potion cost cards. Silly to act like it is some great waste of time when it isn't.

The Gunpowder used to buy Bomb is trashed. The Bomb is trashed. Another card is trashed by the Bomb. You're not absorbing the card's function and overall purpose. Try understanding the entire expansion with a little more depth, because at this point I feel you're the one that just isn't getting it, that isn't absorbing it. The Bomb concept is a card that trashes another card then trashes itself. Everything else is secondary but has been balanced out to fit that concept. It really isn't that bad of a card. Its just weak, a 2 coin cost card. At this point, I feel that the critiques of Bomb are somewhat whiny and lacking in any real point to make. You're not getting this expansion in depth if you don't get Bomb or the rest of the cards. There's a difference between knowing how to play a game and knowing how to design a game, let alone design a thematic, cohesive expansion to a very popular and unique game that's been crafted by a master game designer. Thanks for the feedback, but this is indeed a done deal.

Bomb stays as is, as do all these cards. If Dominion Gunpowder isn't your cup of tea, move along then and don't play it. Make a better expansion if you think you can. Put it out there on the web and see how it does. That's what I'll be doing with Dominion Gunpowder.

Awaclus · « **Reply #57 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:07:14 pm »

While there is a difference between knowing how to play a game and knowing how to design a game, there is a huge overlap too. You might need different skills in coming up with thematic cards or elegant cards or interesting cards than you need in beating your opponent, but knowing how to beat your opponent is enough to tell when a card is so weak that you'd never buy it for the purpose of beating your opponent.

CG19 · « **Reply #58 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:30:26 pm »

First off, congrats on your first expansion! I think it definitely still needs some work, but I'm glad there is a theme and the cards seem to have been thought out.

The only piece you're missing is playtesting. Integrate the cards in with current Dominion cards and have people play multiple strategies. The cards that are weak and the cards that are overpowered should be obvious after that. Then tweak and playtest again! And again!

Just looking at the cards, I fully agree on the weakness and futility of Bomb. I'm not going to get into a big argument over it. A lot of the best Dominion players in the world visit this forum and this seems to be a common theme. Feel free to playtest and see for yourself! I would be very excited to see some sort log using your expansion or perhaps a recap of the games.

KingZog3 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:39:23 pm »

Quote from: ErrinF on July 06, 2014, 12:54:02 pm

Try understanding the entire expansion with a little more depth, because at this point I feel you're the one that just isn't getting it, that isn't absorbing it. The Bomb concept is a card that trashes another card then trashes itself.

Maybe if more than one of the best Dominion players online say it`s not as good as you think, maybe it's not us. Man, it could be that we're right about this and you're not seeing it. It's just a possibility.

Quote from: ErrinF on July 06, 2014, 12:54:02 pm

Thanks for the feedback, but this is indeed a done deal.

Fine, great. Why are we not allowed to still discuss it? You're crazy to think this thread is going to be locked up just because you don't want to change your cards. We can still comment and discuss what we think would make them better. Also none of them have been tested. Usually people test their games/fan expansions. I know you said you don't own the cards IRL, and you can still post them online for others. There's no problems, but I think nothing is ever a "done deal," there's always room for improvement. Even DXV would make some changes to official cards if he could. Sure the game works and it's amazing, but there could always be tweaks to fix little problems.

Quote from: ErrinF on July 06, 2014, 12:54:02 pm

If Dominion Gunpowder isn't your cup of tea, move along then and don't play it. Make a better expansion if you think you can. Put it out there on the web and see how it does. That's what I'll be doing with Dominion Gunpowder.

This is understood by everyone on this site. But again, we'll post where we like. If you don't want ot read what we have to say about your cards, then you shouldn't have posted. You don't get to decide when we have to stop talking about your cards. Ignore what we say, it really doesn't matter, but we'll still say it.

And on a side note, LastFootNote has made an expansion, and it's so good I'm surprised he hasn't gottan an actual game publishes yet.

silverspawn · « **Reply #60 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:44:33 pm »

piuch... ptisch. boom boom boom

theory · « **Reply #61 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:07:04 pm »

The point is moot because he started harassing me with PMs about how badly he was being treated here and threatening to go to other websites. I fulfilled his threat, and hopefully both websites are better for it now.

Quote from: ErrinF on July 06, 2014, 01:39:10 pm

I like DSF, but its served its purpose as far as creating my expansion went, and if the people here are going to continue to denigrate it and me unfairly, I'll just end the discussion about it here all together by logging in one day and removing the topic. Just because its a free variant doesn't mean I'm cool with people treating it so unprofessionally. Please spare me any future foolish assumptions about myself supposedly not being able to take criticism. I simply want the bullshit kept away from my creation so people can enjoy it in a positive atmosphere. If you want to facilitate the trolling and the undue negativity by being soft and naive on the matter, that's your call. Thanks. No need to reply as I am somewhat bored by the conversation and this site at this point.

KingZog3 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:13:48 pm »

Right, then we can come out and say it. These cards suck. Ok, now I'll go back to being polite.

theory · « **Reply #63 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:18:47 pm »

Man, that's just because you are "a very angry, adversarial person who made some Dominion cards once that nobody cared about". If only we weren't so brutally harsh on Ironmelter, you might not be such a "overly competitive, passive-aggressive" "liar" who is "not on the level, and has some serious issues". Actually I was warned to "be mindful of potential trolls like" you since you're "an overly adversarial troublemaker who admitted in his own posts that he was being rude and had already caused arguments here that day". You're treading on thin ice dude.

KingZog3 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:24:45 pm »

Quote from: theory on July 06, 2014, 03:18:47 pm

Man, that's just because you are "a very angry, adversarial person who made some Dominion cards once that nobody cared about". If only we weren't so brutally harsh on Ironmelter, you might not be such a "overly competitive, passive-aggressive" "liar" who is "not on the level, and has some serious issues". Actually I was warned to "be mindful of potential trolls like" you since you're "an overly adversarial troublemaker who admitted in his own posts that he was being rude and had already caused arguments here that day". You're treading on thin ice dude.

I removed the post. Yeah, that was crossing a line. But I'm not a troll, nothing I posted before that post I just removed was intended to be rude, nor am I a liar.

EDIT: Or the other things in quotes. Except competitive. I am that.

silverspawn · « **Reply #65 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:27:17 pm »

do you think he was trolling? I can understand people making bad cards, but I can't understand how you can claim bomb is a viable card when comparing it to island. that's just... dunno. but he went so far with this that he almost had to have been serious about it.

theory · « **Reply #66 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:31:36 pm »

Quote from: KingZog3 on July 06, 2014, 03:24:45 pm

Quote from: theory on July 06, 2014, 03:18:47 pm
Man, that's just because you are "a very angry, adversarial person who made some Dominion cards once that nobody cared about". If only we weren't so brutally harsh on Ironmelter, you might not be such a "overly competitive, passive-aggressive" "liar" who is "not on the level, and has some serious issues". Actually I was warned to "be mindful of potential trolls like" you since you're "an overly adversarial troublemaker who admitted in his own posts that he was being rude and had already caused arguments here that day". You're treading on thin ice dude.

I removed the post. Yeah, that was crossing a line. But I'm not a troll, nothing I posted before that post I just removed was intended to be rude, nor am I a liar.

EDIT: Or the other things in quotes. Except competitive. I am that.

Maybe my sarcasm didn't carry through. The guy is seriously unhinged. He reported a bunch of your posts, and I foolishly wrote to him explaining that I wasn't going to remove all criticism of his expansion just because he didn't like it. That set him off and he went on a massive rant about you and this site. It was like David Sirlin: The Early Years or something.

ErrinFU · « **Reply #67 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:39:25 pm »

Wow. What a bunch of drama and unprofessional bs. Theory has to be one of the worst moderators I've ever encountered, sharing PRIVATE messages and saying I harrassed him when all I did was send one message saying he was naive.

And yes, KingZog3 is a troublemaker and a liar who wholly misrepresented our interaction over at Goko. You'd think he was angry and adversarial too if he abused your trust like he did mine and then lied about you for no good reason whatsoever.I regret ever trusting him over at Goko. I regret ever trusting theory to be confidential. theory is a rube easily played by KingZog3. Trolls can easily have their way with such dupes overlooking the site.

Dont ban me from this site but keep this forum up, morons. Clear it all out. I'm embarrassed I ever dealt with you drama mamas here. Sorry theory couldnt handle the truth about how poorly he moderates this site.

Again, take down anything about Dominion Gunpowder here since this website is not at all friendly to people who create games. I want nothing to do with you weirdos. The admins/moderators here are a joke, thoroughly unprofessional.

And talk all the smack about me you like. You're not even that great of Dominion players. You certainly no little about game design. You're fooling yourself if you think anybody really cares all that much about your opinions when it comes to Dominion.

You all turned this forum into a mess, and are mad at me cuz I didnt put up with your bs. So kill this topic and move on. L8r.

Awaclus · « **Reply #68 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:40:18 pm »

Quote from: silverspawn on July 06, 2014, 03:27:17 pm

do you think he was trolling? I can understand people making bad cards, but I can't understand how you can claim bomb is a viable card when comparing it to island. that's just... dunno. but he went so far with this that he almost had to have been serious about it.

I don't think so. If he was trolling, he was very good at it, and if he was very good at trolling, he wouldn't have gotten himself banned this soon. I have seen one genuine troll that was on this level, and it took him 1.5 years before he forgot to switch accounts and got caught.

ErrinFU · « **Reply #69 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:43:02 pm »

theory, I am not unhinged. you stupidly fell for Zog's halfass story without any other verification. I was blunt to you about it and YOU couldnt handle the criticism. All that talk you did about me supposedly not handling it well, and you were the one who couldnt handle it.

Unhinged? I was pissed off that you bought into that false story about me. I mentioned none of that public, and only said that between us. You were the one that then spazzed out, banned me, and decided to air my private message to you on a public forum. You are thoroughly in the wrong and attacking me AFTER banning me is cowardly. Let alone allowing this forum to exist smply as a way to badmouth me and not discuss Dominion Gunpowder at all. You're the moderator here? You're as off topic as they come. Really... this forum is supposed to be about you complaining about me, and not the variant I submitted?

You people here are way out of line, overly dramatic, and thoroughly unprofessional.

silverspawn · « **Reply #70 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:45:00 pm »

well I for one think you're a great moderator

Awaclus · « **Reply #71 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:45:52 pm »

theory's the best though!

ErrinFU · « **Reply #72 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:46:08 pm »

Im not trolling

I just came here to post a variant.

Some guy named KingZog said i could go play him at Goko. I did that, then he came back here and throughly misrepresented me for reasons I know not why.

All this drama has been brought on by Zog and theory. I wanted to keep it off this forum. theory is handling this WAY too emotionally. Sorry he wasnt an adult that couldnt take a blunt assessment.

Either way, how about we end this stupidity by you deleting this topic all together? I was going to do that myself but i cant because theory threw a fit at me confronting his naive assumptions about me reacting to KingZog's false narrative about me.

silverspawn · « **Reply #73 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:50:20 pm »

Quote

Either way, how about we end this stupidity by you deleting this topic all together? I was going to do that myself but i cant because theory threw a fit at me confronting his naive assumptions about me reacting to KingZog's false narrative about me.

this thread is a highly interesting psychological demonstration of how a self absorbed personality can make you completely blind to any sort of logical reason. it has to live on.

ErrinFU · « **Reply #74 on:** July 06, 2014, 03:50:42 pm »

Great moderators do not air private messages. Great moderators dont lecture about taking criticism, then NOT take criticism themselves. Great moderators dont ban people just because they were confronted bluntly. Be an adult, theory, and delete this topic. You do not have permission to have anything Dominion Gunpowder related here any more at Dominion Strategy Forum. SO take this down. If you want to change it to a bitchfest about me without any reference to Dominion Gunpowder, go for it.

Villify me all you like, but you handled this very poorly. You let KingZog create the trouble around this variant that he was looking to create. DSF is clealry a forum for stupidity and drama. It has little to do with Dominion or game creation. This topic proves that. Continuing to keep it up only makes you look bad, not me.

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Author Topic: Dominion: Gunpowder (Read 98742 times)