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1076

Other Games / Re: Ravnica Magic

« on: October 01, 2012, 09:52:22 pm »

I opened Selesnya.  I had bigger plans post rotation for the land than I did for corpsejack menace (despite how much I want to build a hydra/corpsejack deck, I think GW aggro will be stronger with call of the conclave and loxodon smiter).  Unfortunately I went 2-2 but should have done a lot better if I didn't get as land flooded as I did.  I pulled an Armada Wurm and a Captain of the guard which should have done me work, but alas you can only play the cards you draw.

1077

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 01, 2012, 07:37:42 am »

I think I was pretty clear why Joth gave me a bad vibe.  Its not exactly that he wanted to look off wagon; like I said, I might want to as well.  However, to that quickly go out and say it without any supporting evidence is a little scummy to me.  Granted it has been a long night, he could have been developing these ideas in his brain for a while and it just gets vomited out because he thinks its obvious after all the time spent thinking about it.  I dont know, but if he were to have just at least given a little more of a reason why before directing everyone I'd be cool.

1078

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- NIGHT 1

« on: September 30, 2012, 11:23:02 pm »

I'm inclined to think there was not a whole lot of bussing in that lynch. Obviously not all 13 Grujah voters are clear, but the smart money is probably to start hunting off-wagon.

If there is you and ftl would be at the top of my list... but that needs to be further analyzed.

Joth and ftl were already near the top of my list; i'm not sure about bussing or not, but eevee's role seems to me (and cayvie i guess) to mean that there are multiple scum teams.  It absurd for joth to jump out and say "hey guys, definitely no scum on grujah's wagon because that didn't feel like bussing, let's look off-wagon".  Yes indeed, look off wagon and completely forget that there could be a whole heap of non-mafia scum on grujah's wagon.

PPE: Cool, and you just gave us our first lead into which off-wagon voters to check, thanks director.  Funny that one of the Morgrim-pushers happens to think you're scum. (Protip: that's me)

For another nearly antagonizing post, this actually makes a lot of sense.  Seems very sketchy to immediately have everyone not look in depth at the wagon.  I dont know if I necessarily think there is something awesome to be pulled from it either, however, that doesn't mean you should immediately tell everyone to "not look at the man behind the curtain" while giving no evidence to why.  Vote: Jotheonah

1079

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 25, 2012, 11:58:58 pm »

Ok, that Grujah lynch is really picking up speed. L-4.

The part of me that wants the longest day ever to be over with is fighting with the part of me that thinks Grujah is town and therefore a bad lynch.

I agree with this.  Although my read on Grujah isnt town, its nothing.

1080

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 25, 2012, 09:43:52 pm »

Does anyone have a current votecount?

1081

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 25, 2012, 07:59:08 pm »

Having looked through I have 2 things to say about Grujah.  First, he doesn't really come off to me as scummy in the way hes been talking.  That being said, there hasn't been much information about grujah from earlier, aka, this is exactly what ehalc feared when we were discussing lynching for information; everyone is jumping on grujah to get a lynch but there will be nothing gained from it, as some seem to have little reason (see: he is the scummiest of the people that have the most votes that I'd be willing to get on).  My vote will stay where it is.

PS I find it interesting that ehalc mentioned that if people just vote for someone to get them to die, we gain no information because everyone has an excuse.  Yet ehalc is voting for grujah.  I know he voiced different reasons for doing so but I just find it interesting.

PPE: @ashersky I'm gonna claim newbie on this one but, holy cow 25 people is a lot to keep track of and just from a "one less person to keep in my brain" standpoint I dont think I could go today with no lynch.  I know people are going to die in the night but my brain cant take it.  This shit is hard.

1082

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 25, 2012, 04:09:11 pm »

I dont want to move my vote for no reason, but I would like to see a lynch happen, if only for personal reasons (I cant be the ONLY person here excited about RTR this weekend and doesn't want to be worried about the lynch votes going through in the final second).  I'm going to go back and reread some stuff from Grujah as I didn't necessarily have a read on him; although, I do side with Yuma and Shraeye, if the last few IRL days weren't any evidence, there is no way anyone is getting lynched with our very scattered opinions.

1083

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 25, 2012, 12:28:31 pm »

My main suspicions are Grujah, Glooble and Captain_Frisk for not posting much and saying even less. Add the above for Glooble and the weird vote on Munch for Frisk. It looks like Grujah is the one with the highest chance of getting consensus on, so for the sake of avoiding nolynch vote Grujah

Are you talking about Frisk voting for me for editing my post?

1084

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 24, 2012, 10:52:17 pm »

@eHalc, its point 3a that I have continually have had a problem with that you either dont understand or are dodging.  The fact that people vote for someone "for information" doesn't change the past.  I dont think anyone is actually proposing to look at the people who are willing to pull the trigger for information and say "you are scummy for killing town."  The people that are in question are the people that were either defending the lynchee or pushing for his death the first time the wagons came around, depending on what he flipped.  People pulling the trigger does not invalidate pages upon pages of discussion.

1085

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 24, 2012, 10:28:55 pm »

I'll Unvote for now, but I still get a vibe off eHalc.

I'll vote: Galzria.

I'll take over for you joth, Vote: eHalc. I'm still getting a vibe from watno, who has been quiet for a while now.  I dont want to just jump on eHalc just cause hes being the most active but every time he posts something I get a little more suspicious of his intentions.  I have started feeling this way ever since he was against (and is still against, he just reiterated it) the idea of gaining information from lynches.  I dont like people that are against gaining information that is helpful to town.

1086

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 24, 2012, 08:03:34 pm »

Robz, can you prod TheMunch please? In the time I took to write this, TheMunch came back.

Sorry, wasn't trying to lurk.  No one was talking about anything this weekend and I came back when everyone else did.  I'm interested why you specifically wanted me prodded (for I assume not talking despite the fact that no one was talking).

1087

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 24, 2012, 06:57:24 pm »

Hey Guys, been a long time without any talking going on here.  Good to see it lively again.  I'll get on the multiple vote train:

Vote: watno (my vote is already there, I believe)
2nd vote: eHalcyon (I agree with the notion that ehal calling out volt for not actually having an argument feels scummy)
3rd vote: O

1088

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 01:35:46 pm »

On this Watno thing... I'm confused about it.  I was grilling Munchy pretty hard, but Watno seems way more aggressive.  I don't know, I can't really be objective about myself.

Yeah I would say that is the difference between you and him in the last few posts and the reason why I voted for watno.  You were grilling me and had reasons to be doing so and hence why I was trying really hard to be clear with you.  But watno just seemed like he wanted to catch me make a slip so he could pull the trigger.  I dont like that.

1089

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 01:28:16 pm »

Watno is seeming pretty scummy to me.  If he was scum and me not scum, if I were in his shoes id definitely be looking at the new player being incredibly confusing (which I very well might be guilty of) and try to catch him making a slip.  Then knowing the new player isn't scum, try to pull the trigger.  I dont like it.  Seems like hes fishing for a mistake I cant make.  Vote: watno

1090

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 12:18:01 pm »

You didn't until way later. What you posted was:

Which reasons from other people do you agree with that you think ehunt is suspicious?  I don't think it's been very well fleshed out at all.

ehunt is currently discussing a bunch of the talking points so I'll give a response if necessary after all that has been said.

I have already responded to that.  I consider this matter closed.

1091

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 12:12:48 pm »

But eHalc explicitely asked you what you thought were the fleshed out reasons?

Thats why I linked the relevent articles posts (fixed for clarity) which I assumed were fleshed out.

1092

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 12:12:22 pm »

But eHalc explicitely asked you what you thought were the fleshed out reasons?

Thats why I linked the relevent articles which I assumed were fleshed out.

1093

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 11:42:05 am »

TheMunch, how does saying "This are the reasons: List" provide more clutter than "I can't say my reasons now because ehunt is talking about them"?

At the time I probably thought the reasons were more fleshed out (oh look I even said that I did).  And would be waiting to respond to those reasons, which I probably felt I was being called out for at the time.  I have now been explicit so there is no confusion.

So, you voted someone for reasons you thought were fleshed out, but didn't check what those reasons were?

Other way around.  I voted for reasons, and agreed with what was brought up.  Fleshed out, to me, implies known to the group.  I think the misunderstanding is that in my naivete I assumed other people notice exactly the same things I do and see them in the same light I do.  This became very evident after my reread when I realize that these points were brought up during the Shraeye wagon.  People were probably more focused on that, didn't notice the posts I referenced, and then when I said "oh yeah this is fleshed out" people like you understandably go "wat" if they hadn't caught those same posts or agreed with them on the first time through.  I knew what the reasons were, but I mistakenly thought others did too.

1094

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 10:36:45 am »

TheMunch, how does saying "This are the reasons: List" provide more clutter than "I can't say my reasons now because ehunt is talking about them"?

At the time I probably thought the reasons were more fleshed out (oh look I even said that I did).  And would be waiting to respond to those reasons, which I probably felt I was being called out for at the time.  I have now been explicit so there is no confusion.

Also, why do you think someone's card is the most important information we'll get when he dies. In fact, we don't even know we'll get it. Anyway, i'd say the most important piece of information revealed on death will be the alignment of the player who died.

I didn't know that the cards would be flipped.  This is just what everyone is saying so I assumed thats the way it worked on this forum.  And when i talked about card flip, I was talking about player alignment.  I had forgotten we had also gotten cards (well I hadn't but had not realized this would cause confusion) from dominion.  It was a simple mistake; I've only ever played mafia IRL where your alignment is the card you got in some form (diamonds are mafia or something along those lines).

PPE: Galz is right.

1095

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 10:18:35 am »

[...]
This isn't what I am trying to accomplish.  I dont think we both mean the same thing when I say wagon, so let me be perfectly clear.  By wagon, I mean to say a group of people that voted for a particular person for some shared reason or over a shared period of time.  We have already had these wagons.  I am not attempting to make ANOTHER yuma wagon, or an ehunt wagon, or an O wagon.  What i'm trying to do is find out if we kill ehunt, or yuma, or O, which one of the wagons that has ALREADY HAPPENED will provide the most information if its target is dead.  Lets say we decide to kill yuma because it would provide the most valuable information; then I'm not nearly as concerned with the people that helped vote to kill (for the sake of flipping his card) as the people on the earlier wagons.  It is impossible to find scum day 1.  I want to make day 2 as informed as possible and "trying to figure out the most informative lynch" is precisely the way to do it.  In fact, it bothers me that you are so against the idea of trying to gain as much information as possible.  Kinda scummy to me.  Vote: eHalcyon

What do you mean by "for the sake of flipping his card"? That's not the information we're aiming for in a lynch.

If you had been keeping up with the argument, that is the whole point.  The argument is once someone is dead, and they have flipped their card (probably the most important part), then we can re-examine the wagons and see what can be deduced.  We can only deduce things if the person whose card was flipped had people against him that we can examine (I address what I think we are looking for in my post 874)

Another point on wagon hunting, I propose the following reasoning.  Lets say we kill a wagon and that person flips either town or scum.  Obviously there are more intricacies with the players power role, but lets keep it simple.  So if they flip town, we'd want to re-examine the wagon and look at the people who jumped on very quickly after the wagon formed.  If they flip scum, we would be looking for at (fixed for clarity) people that defended him. 

Open question: what wagons do people feel have both elements to them (people who jumped on quickly after the wagon formed, and a strong defense for them by a small number of people) so that regardless of whether or not they flip town, we can deduce good information?

1096

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 10:09:23 am »

Which reasons from other people do you agree with that you think ehunt is suspicious?  I don't think it's been very well fleshed out at all.

ehunt is currently discussing a bunch of the talking points so I'll give a response if necessary after all that has been said.

Can you explain why you need ehunt to say something before you can tell us the reasons you vote him for? You did already vote him, so the reasons should be there already.

Can you finally answer this, TheMunch?

Since you aren't that clear with what "this" means, I can take it to mean one of two things.  First, you might want a response to what eHalc said, regarding not thinking it was very fleshed out.  Well all I can say is I have never tried to be decieving when it comes to reasons why I vote for people.  You can see this if you go back and reread but it seems like you haven't.  In fact I said it in 325.  But as to the arguments I was agreeing to, those were voltgloss in 362, Eevee in 391, and voltgloss again in 420.  I found myself agreeing with these for the most part but it was during the Shraeye wagon kerfuffle so it could be hard to miss.
Now the second thing you might be asking me to answer is I why I had to wait.  To me, I had noticed these posts listed above (the ones I claim as the reasons why ehunt was scummy), and had already stated my reasons for voting him in the first place.  Unlike jotheonah, I wasn't going to clutter up ehunts ramblings (which he prob could have put all in one post).

1097

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 08:57:25 am »

unvote, forgot to bold

1098

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 21, 2012, 08:57:00 am »

Ok eHalcyon, I think I see the problem.  I think we agree more than you lead on initially, so I'll give you an unovte for now and try to explain myself again.  Let me start off by saying, while I like the back and forth, as a new player I cant help but feel it is incredibly dangerous.  I fear explaining the same thing in 3 different ways to try to make you understand is only going to end with me getting caught in an unintentional contradiction that I really would rather not get lynched for.

Ok the Yuma wagon.  I need to pick a better word than mess.  I'm not gonna say mess at all cause that seemed to be part of the confusion.  My problem wasn't that it just that it grew quickly, or just that it disbanded for what seened like no reason, it was the combination.  I saw a bunch of people jump on him for rolefishing (which as a new player, took me a while to figure out why that was so obvious to everyone else).  But then as he was defending himself (the part where I claimed to have become more suspicious of him) thats when everyone backed off of him for an "honest mistake."  It is the disparity between me finding his defense suspicious and everyone else completely buying it.

I'm not going to talk about O anymore.  I've already conceded it was a noob mistake to let my personal fellings about him as a person and his playstyle affect whether or not I wanted to see him die.

When I talk about the value of the ehunt wagon I'm talking about the value of information to be gained by ehunts death if we look at the wagon.  This is when I figured out that I probably agreed with you more than I originally thought.  At the end of your post you argue that you dont think there is any informative lynch from day 1; I think I'm coming to that conclusion slower than you are.  I am literally saying in all 4 cases that I want there to be information to be gained from the wagons that have formed but when I go over each wagon I seem to come to the conclusion that there wasn't as much conclusive with the wagons as I wanted there to be.  This is why yesterday I made the post asking the question (874) if they saw any wagons with the information that would be useful to us on D2.

1099

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 20, 2012, 08:29:06 pm »

Also, Unvote, Vote: eHalcyon

1100

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT

« on: September 20, 2012, 08:28:46 pm »

Oh, and the munch edited a post

You're still on that?! <3  Clearly I'm hiding everything in that post and I dont like that you caught me so Vote: Captain_Frisk