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Messages - TheMunch

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1
I heard about this Prismata thing from Reddit.  I got to playing the demo and have been loving it! (That is, I have been loving it since I figured out how to actually win a game against the master bot...)  It's been a lot of fun and I would to get some alpha access, and see how much better real people are than the AI!

2
OH GOD THAT PICTURE.  REMOVE IT.  OH GOD.

3
Its Tables turn right now though?  Shraeye gives his 2 red to tables, tables moves to the adjacent research station and cures?  Whats tables doing this turn?

4
 why  aren't  we  curing  red?

5
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 22, 2013, 03:01:43 pm »
I dont think the current mission proposal can do that (L/J/MM/TM).  Unfortuantely the only mission that would make me absolutely sure would be TM/TA/J/L.  If it fails, I know once of them is a spy.  second best would be one of Jimm/Liopoil and Both of MM/Arch.  I think its harder for both spies to coordinate, so if theres 1 sab, its much more likley that Jimm is the spy than both of MM / Arch.  Then we can run TA/ (whichever team we dont think is the spy) and win on mission 4.  If we're wrong about the 1 sab in TA/J/MM/Arch, then we can justuse the other team in mission 5.  Oh but wait, the thing that helps us know whether or not Lio/Jimm is the scum team is the thing they voted down.  Womp womp.

6
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 22, 2013, 02:55:01 pm »
People are probably gonna think that I'm crazy, but what I'm about to propose definitely is consistent with what I've seen going on this game (I should have posted regarding last mission and is the reason I passed it but whatever).

First off, I'm pretty sure that there is a spy on the last mission.  It succeeded which means there were probably 2 spies on the mission.  I propose that those two spies are lio/Jimm.

Mission 1, they propose themselves.  They know they cant both sabotage the mission, and they know that even if the mission itself succeeds, this is fine for their team, they get quit a bit of cred for that mission passing.

TA proposes himself + lio/Jimm.  If we continue with the thinking that at least someone is a spy on this mission, then it cant be TA.  TA is 99% resistance to me.  If hes the lone spy, he would have sabotaged the mission.  If he is the spy then he doesn't actually have a reason to put his partner on the mission.  (This is the reason I was happy that TA was on last mission).

Lio and Jimm were pushing for both of themselves to be on this mission.  This is interesting to me because I know that if I was in that position, I would feel like I gained some cred but would still be cautious about the other person on the 2person mission with me (we've already discussed why 1 spy on the first mission might not sabotage).  If one of us resistance proposes a mission with both of them on it they now might be caught.  But notably Jimm and Lio are proposing that we look OUTSIDE of the three on the last mission.  Putting myself in their shoes, there cant be 1 spy on the mission (that spy would have sabotaged).  If there are 2 spies, they must be the other two on the mission.  But TA wouldn't propose a mission with himself and his buddy, so Jimm/Liopoil would have to reject his idea if they were resistance.

In my last post I mentioned the three proposals that should be a win if Lio/TA/Jimm are resistance.  But I dont think they actually want to go ahead with that plan, something that, if they were both resistance, they should be very comfortable to make happen.

So lastly, why did I pass last mission:  I've been wrong this game.  Its quite possible that all the above is incorrect and the scum team is actually arch/MM.  However, I think there are really only 2 possibilities.  Lio/Jimm are a scum team, or Arch MM are a scum team.  If we had done the mission MM had proposed last time, there are three outcomes: 0 sabotages, 1 sab, 2 sab.  If its 2 sab, we know team is arch MM and we win.  If its 1 sab we know that either arch/MM guessed correctly or Jimm is in fact spy.  If its 0 sab then we win.   So if its 1 sab, then I would propose the following two missions as a winning strategy: TA/Munch/Jimm/Liopoil and TA/Munch/MM/Arch.  One of those should have to win.

Come to think of it, we could just do those two missions now and we win as far as i'm concerned.

EDIT: Wow, I just checked wiki and mission 4 is indeed only 3 people... Thats strange.

Question for the people that are convinced that all three of TA/Lio/Jimm are resistance?

Why hasn't anyone proposed running TA/Lio/Jimm/Munch > TA/Lio/Jimmm/MM > TA/Lio/Jimm/Arch?

If all three are resistance, then isn't this a very obvious winning strategy?

The fourth mission requires 3 people, so we're planning on doing TA/Lio/Jimm.

If that's going to work, we might as well spend mission 3 trying to get a different winning team, ie one that leaves one of us 3 off.

This confuses me.  If we're convinced that the 3 of you are resistance, why do we care at all about this mission? We just send the 3 of you next.  Instead now that I think about it, lets ensure that Lio and Jimm are both not spies.  How do we do that?

7
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 22, 2013, 02:28:02 pm »
Question for the people that are convinced that all three of TA/Lio/Jimm are resistance?

Why hasn't anyone proposed running TA/Lio/Jimm/Munch > TA/Lio/Jimmm/MM > TA/Lio/Jimm/Arch?

If all three are resistance, then isn't this a very obvious winning strategy?

8
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 22, 2013, 02:19:01 pm »
Hey, I'm here.  I'm sending in passes and fails cause I get texts from Shraeye :).

Last mission was weird for me and I lost a lot of bearings on this game.  I was convinced there was at least one of the spies amongst lio/TA/Jimm (why I rejected that mission).  Then that mission succeed.  I think there was one of only a few possibilities that went on in that scenario that I find reasonable, but then there was a bunch of theory talk which got me overwhelmed and I was kinda quiet.  I'll post this and go back and read some of the theory and see if I can draw some conclusions.


9
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 16, 2013, 01:59:46 pm »
What mission am I going to reject, TA?

10
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 15, 2013, 03:04:07 pm »
Decline. I'd rather pass missions and I think this one is more likely than most to bring a spy along. Plus, a fail doesn't really give me any idea as to who it is.

Yeah, you weren't one of the people I was hoping to convince.  You are quite stubborn, in not a good way, imo.  I would love to get some more information, and I'm of the believe, especialy with the way Liopoil is acting, that just because the Lio/Jimm mission passed and succeeded doesn't mean that there isn't a spy between them.  So you going, "yeah its either me, or push the same team from before" is not the direction I wanted to go.  If that means my mission fails, so be it.

11
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 15, 2013, 11:02:13 am »
I'm going to stick with the mission of Archetype, Jimmm, Munch

It was a hard decision but I think its for the best.  I would rather get more information on more people, while including the towniest (at least I believe) of the pair of Jimm/Liopoil on board to increase our chances.  I hope you guys consider it before you say "doesn't contain both liopoil/Jimmm therefore it is a terrible idea".

12
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 13, 2013, 08:53:32 am »
How will you know who's a spy?

Id like an answer to this.

Munch, you probably don't have my vote no matter what, because chances are TA and mail-mi will offer a better proposal than you will (for me, that is). if it include jimmmmm and I, I'll probably accept though. I'm regretting declining jimmmmm's proposal.

Is it that I dont have your vote if I put myself on my own mission?  Or you are so convinced I'm a spy because I'm "voting weirdly" (even though there seem to be a bunch of people that agree with my votes; I dont think there has been a mission that passed that I was against) that anything I propose has to be the work of a spy?

13
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 12, 2013, 11:17:31 pm »
Hey guys, sorry I've been out of town for my sister's graduation.  She's a Phd so thats awesome.

The thing that stands out to me is that I'm particularly low on a lot of peoples lists for reasons I dont particularly understand.  I think the only reasons I heard were that my voting habits were weird but I dont think they necessarily stand out from anyone else in this game.  I have been quite upfront with my opinions for most of this game, and liopoil has stood out to me as someone who has just constantly been in "shock" at my votes. 

I would love the next mission to be archetype, myself and Jimmm, so thats what I'm considering proposing, but I fear that might just get voted down out of hand.


14
Hey guys.  Sorry for not paying as much attention as this game required.  I joined this game back when I was phasing out of forum mafia but still wanted to participate, then work got in the way of me actually focusing.  Props to Shraeye for keeping me at least participating.

That said, its now the end of the semester so I'm back to actually focus on this game (right in time for it to be over...).

Question for theorel: I need a little more help seeing how we get the red cure, I'm confused.

That being said, I still think the best option for me is to fly to Milan, treat, and Jesus walk Istanbul to Algiers.

That was supposed to be bolded

15
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 08, 2013, 09:30:12 am »
My reads quickly, Resistance to Spy:

Archetype
Twisted Archer
mail-mi
Jimmmmm
TheMunch
liopoil

I'd send the top 3, obviously. I could switch mail-mi for Jimmmmm.

I guess its unreasonable to want to avoid 3 people.  MM made me very uncomfortable in the beginning of the game but hasn't done/said anything.  Very well my read could be wrong (I also had at the same time a strong initial read on TA which he quickly changed for me).  I'll try to be less restrictive.  That said, I find it funny that TA and MM are high on your list and low on mine.  Would be much easier to pass your mission if our reads lined up a little better.  Do you want to explain why TA and MM are so high on your list?

16
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 08, 2013, 09:25:39 am »
Okay, do you guys have any REASONS for thinking I'm spy? also, if I was spy, would I choose my partner for the first mission, and would he then also choose me for the next mission? what makes you guys think it's more likely that one of us is a spy then any other pair of people? I don't see how anyone can reasonably have us as anywhere but their two top resistance reads. If this seems like I'm pre-defending myself, then so be it. niether arch nor munch have cited anyything specific that makes them think I'm spy. the only real evidence we have is voting records, mission proposals, and mission results. I doubt you can find a way in which these make jimmmmm or I look like spy. and no, being on the first mission does not mean that one of us is spy. just because spy usually makes it onto the first mission doesn't mean they did this time. look, from a resistance player's perspective, there's only a 3/10 chance that any two other players are both resistance. so yes, while you would be right to think that chances are one of us is spy, that's true about any other pair. I fail to see why the people who were on the first mission, and passed it, are MORE likely to be spy. and no, saying "in my experience, spies always make it onto the first mission" is meaningless.

It does sound like predefending.  People have started putting me towards the top of their scum lists for a while now and you dont see me complaining about it.  Probably because I find it more important to actually find the spies than convincing everyone that I'm not a spy.  Yes, from my position I know I'm resistance and that this makes me a better candidate for missions etc etc, but its very hard for any of you to know that.  I feel like I have reads but not much information (one passed mission that is incredibly inconclusive) so I want to test my reads by putting on missions those that I dont have as large of suspicions about.

17
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 07, 2013, 11:33:16 pm »
Hmm.  Jimm proposing me kind of makes me uneasy.  My first thought before I read all the posts I needed to catch up was: "I'm going to guess that everyone is quite eager to put Lio and Jimm on this next mission because the first mission succeeded.  I can definitely see at least one of lio/Jimmm being a spy, lio probably the more likely of the two, but its also quite possible that they both are spies.  If I was a spy on the first mission with resistance I would pass it if only to ensure that no resistance has any perfect information, but two spies on the mission works around this mission quite nicely; neither is going to fail the mission for fear of them both failing, and they probably aren't worried about one mission succeeding anyway."

But then I actually read that lio also proposed this idea.  This makes me quite uncomfortable, but I dont think it makes it less likely to be the case in my mind.  I'm going to be voting against this mission.  I know would like to avoid all of MM/Lio/TA as they make me the most uncomfortable.  With that said though, MM has been quite since he started getting some heat earlier in the game.  I would like to hear more from him.

Archetype is proposing next?  I would feel the best at this moment about a Jimm/Munch/Arch mission.

18
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 06, 2013, 09:31:56 pm »
If I were you though I would have declined straight down the line to y own mission...which you didn't. Not sure if you have more information than the rest of us do or not, but regardless I don't think I want you on this mission.

Preferred mission for me is jimm, liopiol, and myself. If I'm not on it is probably want to see archetype. I'd guess that one of lio/ Jim is a spy, though, so idk...no idea as to who of the two is more likely.

I'm confused.  I stated my intentions that I was pretty comfortable with a not MM mission so I dont know why it came as a surprise.  But even with that said, you are upset... because I passed a mission that was not sabotaged.  I appreciate the argument of "I know I'm resistance so I'm the best bet to put on a mission" argument but at a certain point I start getting suspicious that you have an ulterior motive for wanting to be on the mission.  If you are resistance you are being overeager.  If you are a spy, I know there are arguments in favor of sabotaging (to try to frame the other guy) or not sabotaging (to gain resistance cred and not give away to the other guy you are a spy) but this overeagerness can also be explained by you being a spy, deciding that one of these options with being on the first mission is a really strong strategy and you REALLY wanted to get on that mission.  I just cant see why you are upset that a mission succeed.

19
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 06, 2013, 07:42:23 pm »
Munch, why did you accept this one?

Very interested to hear the answer to this.

It didn't contain MM.

20
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 05, 2013, 02:13:19 pm »
If Munch is willing to put me on a mission, then I'll almost certainly reject all the way down the line to his nomination on any mission that doesn't have me.

While I appreciate the sentiment, I dont know how wise it is to categorically reject 4 in a row, just to get to me cause you "know" I'll put you on the mission.  Just because up until this point you were a strong read for me, this doesn't make you infallible.  Nothing has happened yet.

@Liopoil: My conviction is not as strong as you seem to think it is.  I wont necessarily reject anything that is not lio/TA or lio/Munch.  This might be the most likely that I would accept at this point in time, but that doesn't mean I cant be convinced.  I will reject anything that has MM on it (but naturally you wont propose that again).  After TA's comment (quoted above) I appreciate the concern for getting a mission passed that will get passed, especially when TA is prepared to reject until it is my turn to propose.  On further thought, I think I would accept any mission at this point (since MM is off the table).

Follow up for TA:  What happens if every mission gets rejected and I propose a team that doesnt include you?  What then?

21
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 05, 2013, 01:04:04 pm »
I posted a big post yesterday as to why I voted against.  In general, I'm just uncomfortable with MM.  Its not a "I will only pass missions I am on."  I see Jimmm's reasoning for thinking the first mission is a win-win, but I just feel like id rather put on missions people I have positive reads on and no reads on, than hesitant reads or negative ones.

TA is my strongest read and I would put him on a mission.  As for the second, I'd be fine with myself on the mission, but that isn't manditory for me to pass it; liopoil is in charge so its probably going to be him.

Question for Liopoil: Whats your reasoning for wanting to choose who will make the proposal more likely to be accepted?

22
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 04, 2013, 09:33:03 pm »
Boy, I didn't think that much could actually happen in a page.  Love playing with people that are into this stuff.  I played last night and the results of which I'm not to pleased with, if only because people weren't having as much fun as I was.

That said, last night was the first time I played and I was resistance and his self proposal for the first mission was exactly what I did as resistance.  There were actually reasons why I did it though in game and I was deciding whether I wanted to make a similar "put myself out there proposal" this game, but I think one person chomping at the bit should be enough to at least get some things going.  TA is someone that I would be the most comfortable putting on our team.

MM is someone that I'm a little uncomfortable about.  Half of me says he "oh drats I guess we're all spy" joke (about how little information resistance has) feels insincere.  Yet, Archetype and Liopoil both also shared similarly town vibes on TA.  I'm trying to decide whether or not MM's proposal excluding TA is something a spy or resistance would do:

I think, almost certainly he is going to put himself on the mission, because why wouldn't he (resistance will always put themselves on the mission because thats one less person they have to choose that isn't a spy, and spies will try to act like resistance).  But if he is a spy, and assuming for the moment that myself and others are getting a correct feeling about TA, he should be more than pleased to throw a towny looking guy on his mission.  He could either sabotage the mission and try to wrack up some suspicion, or not sabotage and and earn himself some town points.

However, I feel like resistance is going to care less about trying to manipulate the opinions of the rest of the town.  His disregard reads almost resistance to me.

So now given that I feel kind of uncomfortable about mail-mi (he could go either way to me) I would rather avoid the mission hes on.

This might all be a completely off base approach from someone with very little experience but its my reasoning, and would love to know if it makes sense or just feels incredibly off base.

23
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 04, 2013, 06:52:58 pm »
yay! I claim member of the resistance.

That didn't take long :)

24
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Vanilla Resistance.
« on: May 04, 2013, 12:57:21 am »
/in.

25
Hey guys.  Sorry for not paying as much attention as this game required.  I joined this game back when I was phasing out of forum mafia but still wanted to participate, then work got in the way of me actually focusing.  Props to Shraeye for keeping me at least participating.

That said, its now the end of the semester so I'm back to actually focus on this game (right in time for it to be over...).

Question for theorel: I need a little more help seeing how we get the red cure, I'm confused.

That being said, I still think the best option for me is to fly to Milan, treat, and Jesus walk Istanbul to Algiers.

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